Everything Is Content - Everything In Conversation: The Life Of A Showgirl

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

This is an emergency broadcast from the EIC newsroom, on the third of October 2025 Taylor Swift released her twelfth studio album, The Life Of A Show Girl.Here at EIC headquarters we had been warming to Taylor after a collective indifference, but it seems we may have potentially picked a bad time to enSwifticate ourselves. TLOAS tracks were leaked just before release, and immediately, the drama began.The album was recorded in Sweden with the producers Max Martin and Shellback, who she made "22," "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together," "Blank Space," "Style," "Shake It Off," "…Ready For It?" and "Delicate."with, mostly during the European leg of the Eras Tour in 2024.The album consists of 12 tracks, with one featuring Sabrina Carpenter. It sold 2.7 million copies in traditional album sales — which include physical and digital formats — in its first day in the U.S. That’s according to Luminate, an industry data and analytics company, breaking her previous record for most first week sales with TTPD.In the now infamous episode of her American Football playing fiance’s podcast, Taylor described the album as “What was going on behind the scenes in my inner life during this tour, which was so exuberant and electric and vibrant. It just comes from like the most infectiously joyful, wild, dramatic place I was in in my life.“And so that effervescence has come through on this record’ she said ‘that the goal of the album was “melodies that were so infectious that you’re almost angry at it” and also lyrics that “are as vivid, crisp, focused, and completely intentional.”‘This is the record I’ve been wanting to make for a very long time. Every single song is on this album for hundreds of reasons … It’s just right.” she said.Controversy started with Actually Romantic, which is rumoured to be about Charli xcx, but that isn’t her only eyebrow raiser. Some are upset at the highly sexualised nature of tracks like ‘wood’, some are critcising her for releasing multiple variants with bonus tracks, or different recordings, to appeal to collectors and boost album sales by counting each variant as a separate purchase; some of the promo videos that used QR codes or other interactive elements were flagged by people online as possibly being made partly with generative AI, which has caused a stir not least because Swift has been vocal about artists needing control of their work and masters, but also because of the awful instance when people made a deepfake of her. However that is unconfirmed.What is confirmed is that for the first time potentially in Swift’s career, it’s her own fans saying they don’t like the album, or are disappointed.We try to see the wood from the trees... see what we did there ;)Thanks so much for all of your takes on this topic, we appreciate you all! O,R,B xxPitchfork reviewRolling Stone reviewTaylor on Travis podcastGuardian reviewNME review BBC review Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Beth, I'm Ruchera and I'm Anoni and this is Everything in Conversation. This is your extra helping of content to help get you through the midweek slump. We'd love if you'd give us a follow on Instagram and TikTok at Everything is Content Pod to keep up with conversation topics and have your say in these episodes. And make sure you follow us on your podcast player app so you never miss an episode and if we could be so bold, please do leave us a rating. or review wherever you kept the podcast. This is an emergency broadcast from the EIC Newsroom. On the 3rd of October 2025, Taylor Swift released her 12th studio album, The Life of a Showgirl. Here at EIC headquarters, we had been warming to Taylor after a collective indifference,

but it seems we may have potentially picked a bad time to enshristicate ourselves. The Life of the Shogar tracks were leaked just by, before release and immediately the drama began. The album was recorded in Sweden with producers Max Martin and Shelbach, who she made 22, We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together, Blank Space, Style, Shake It Off, ready for it, and delicate with previously, and this was mostly recorded during the European leg of the ERAs tour in 2024. The album consists of 12 tracks, one featuring Sabrina Carpenter.

It sold 2.7 million copies in traditional album sales, which includes physical and digital formats in its first day in the US and that breaks her previous record for most first week's sales with the tortured Perts department. In the now infamous episode of her American football playing fiancé's podcast,

Taylor described the album as what was going on behind the scenes in my inner life during this tour which was so exuberant and electric and vibrant. It just comes from like the most infectiously joyful, wild dramatic place I was in my life.

And so that effervescence has come through on the record, she said. The goal of the album was melodies that were so infectious that you're almost angry at it and also lyrics that are as vivid as they are crisp, focused and completely intentional. This is the record I've been waiting to make for a very long time. Every single song is on this album for hundreds of reasons. It's just right, she said. The first controversy that I heard surrounding the release stemmed from her disc track, actually romantic, which is rumoured to be about Charlie Xx, not only because of the nod to Charlie's everything is romantic from Brat.

But also because of the opening lyrics, I heard you called me boring Barbie when the coax got you brave, high-fived my ex when you said you're glad, he ghosted me, wrote me a song saying it made you sick to see my face. But that isn't her only eyebrow razor. Some are upset at the highly sexualized nature of tracks like wood. Some of the promo videos that used QR codes or other interactive elements were flagged by people online as possibly being made partly

with generative AI which has caused a stir not least because Swift has been vocal about artists needed control of their work and their masters but also because of the awful instance when people made a deep fake of her however that is unconfirmed also because she's been releasing extra variants with bonus tracks which means that fans have to buy multiple copies in order to hear basically the full album what is confirmed is that for the first time potentially in Swift's career it's her own diehard fans saying that they actually don't like the album or are disappointed. So from one, not but open to becoming a Swifty to another two, I would love to hear both of your initial thoughts on the album and the fallout

before we get into our listener responses because we had, well, we had a lot. I'm here, I'm looking at the, where we've collated all of these. And I'm like, wow, this is like 12 pages of responses. It is a lot. And I'm hoping that we will get into it. And we will be really balanced. we will read from the highs and the lows from everyone's sponsors because they were so good. But on the album, I tried so hard to listen to this album without any outside input.

And that was my plan the entire week. And then, of course, there were these leaks, which we chatted about in our group chat. And we were like, there's no way that this actually romantic is real. This is, this is bonkers. She hasn't written this song. It was real. And so I did already. That's how insane this thing is.

The album's not out. Something leaks. the discourse began even before I could get my kind of scramble to get my first listen in. I will say, though, listen to the whole thing, listen to it again, listen to it with my boyfriend, liked multiple tracks, multiple tracks I will never need to listen to again. But my feelings as a non-fan who hasn't invested any money I don't think in Taylor Swift, not much heart, but love the fuck out of so many of her songs over the years. I think it's been a pretty good result.

I was like, okay, didn't necessarily feel cohesive, but I've added like four songs to my light songs and I know I will play the fuck out of them, listen to them to death, will enjoy them for the next few months. They'll help get me through this depressing period of the year. And I would say that leaves me kind of happier about this album than a lot of her fans, which is so bizarre to me. Like I am here being like, yeah, fair enough. I really liked Life of Ophelia. I really liked Opelight. Life for Shogar. What a boy. pop, I would enjoy these songs a great deal. Signed still delivered, I'm fine with it. That is one of the more positive reactions. It's not the most positive reaction, but it's one of the more positive

reactions that I saw on release day. Bruchero, what about you? How are you feeling? That's so fascinating to me, because I was not expecting you to say that. So, I also, having had the same context, aside from the leak of the actually romantic lyrics, I went in mostly tuning out all of the noise. And first listen, you know, few songs that I enjoyed also. I do actually still really like the fate of Ophelia and I've listened to that a few times and that's my favourite song. So I'm glad that's the first one because I think it starts strong. And then for me personally, it just loses itself and it doesn't really grasp, it doesn't get it back for me. And I don't have a problem. I don't think this album is bad. For me, it's just mitt. And I think for me it's the

hype the kind of what we were sold with the imagery of a showgirl. I think it's all of the kind of commentary that she gave of what the album was going to be during the New Heights podcast, that it's just not lived up to it. I don't think I will necessarily return to most of the songs on this album. And my context really is I'm a late in life folklore lover. This summer I got into it, I think it is beautiful. It really had me in its grasp. I love that album.

So lyrically, I think. this is quite, it's just a fall for me from folklore. It doesn't match up to it. There's a beauty in the lyricism that is just missed. And that's fine. I think if it was anyone else, that wouldn't be a problem. I think the problem is the hype of this. I think it's the hype of Taylor Swift. So that's what I'm left with. What about you and only? So the summer of 2020 was my only year of being Swifty and I was reminded of this when I saw friend of the podcast in Swifty, Olivia Petter, because she loved folklore and I remember I was on holiday in Greece. It was a week in 2020 when you were allowed to go on holiday and then we went away and then it was like Amber and we

were driving along the Greek coastline and Livy messaged me being like you have to listen to folklore and for that whole holiday we just listened to folklore and I loved that album. So it's not that I've been it's funny because we've had a lot of messages from people who because I think maybe when you're a Swifty you imagine that. someone who isn't a Swifty is a hater of equal passion to the amount that you love Taylor. I've never been that. I kind of, I loved folklore and then I just don't really get the hype, but I'm not really a disliker.

The what my area with Taylor Swift, which we actually, I went back to remember, it was literally like episode three of this podcast. We spoke about her and got a bit of backlash and maybe that's where we got our name for being Taylor haters was all we said was we can't really get behind Taylor at this moment in time because she has not said anything about what's happening in Palestine and Gaza. And that was like, kind of our thing was just that, you know, she's so massive, but she doesn't speak on things. So to go back to this album, I was actually really excited. I loved the idea of being Shogar.

I've seen so many people sharing imagery and albums of what they thought it might be like Lady Marmalay or like Christina Aguilera, that kind of thing. So I was really buzzing. I played it, having seen this tweet about the Charlie Exeat's disc track in disbelief because I didn't believe that she would mention drugs in her songs. I was like, there's no way she said that. I agree. Fate of Ophelia, I was like, oh, I do quite like this. I immediately liked it. And then the rest of the album, as you said, Ritura, did kind of fall off for me. I've then been listening, really trying to listen. And I have to say the whole album is stuck in my head. I think the melodies are extremely catchy. And it makes sense to me when you think about who she made it with. Like, we're never getting back together, blanks bass, shake it off. All of those songs are, I wouldn't say they're necessarily her best, but they're certainly really like high pop music. I think the melodies are great. But, yeah, I actually, I think where I feel disappointed as funny is I actually was preparing myself to be like, do you know what?

I'm going to get fully invested in this woman because people seem to love her. She seems to bring everyone so much joy. This album sounds like a bit of me. I'm such a big fan of like kind of showgirl. I love cabaret. My favorite musical is like Chicago. All of those kind of things were really tickling me and then it fell flat. Now, to get into, I think we should got to go into the messages because we have just had

so, so many. We're going to try and like give both sides. So we had a message from Mia who said, I've been a Swifty for 12 years now and my entire feed is people hating on the album and it makes you question whether this is something to do the algorithm or whether this is general sentiment.

But either way, it's having an influence on my perspective of the album before I've even had a chance to sit with it and hear it a few times. My entire feed on all platforms is discourse spanning from this is a fun album full of Glitory Jail Pen songs, VOM, to oh, but it's disappointed because it doesn't really give us a glimpse to the life for Shogar except she's getting dicked down and hates other female pop stars to she's actually a Nazi. And I think that

actually quite well exemplifies the breadth of the DMs that we've been getting. And then we also had a message from Kate which read the headlines you post on the stories I hadn't seen before now. Your algorithm doesn't like Taylor. Within the Swifty bubble, everyone is loving the album. It's the clickbait media that doesn't. Which I found quite interesting because as the that message just said, I think that we've had quite a lot of messages actually perhaps from a bit like you outlined, Beth, maybe Swifties being more disappointed in the album or feeling a bit like, oh no, our faves really like shown her ass. Because the meme that's really going around at the minute, which I kind of agree with, which is one that's like all of the Swifties

are really upset right now because this album sounds like exactly whatever and who didn't like her music thought her music sounded like all along. And that's more what I'm seeing. So what about you guys, Do you think this is an algorithm thing? Because from my perspective, I was also getting sent articles left, right and centre. I follow a lot of Swifty journalists and content creators who also were quite damning about the album. Do you think this is algorithm or do you think this has broken out and it is actually much bigger than that? So my only take is having my friends who are Swifties reporting back to me. And compared to various albums in years gone by, this has really even divided.

them algorithmically all I'm getting is just memes about the album brackets derogatory and then kind of looking at the cultural criticism so I guess like music critics across magazines and newspapers it also is really split so for me I can see how if you are a swiftie and you are your algorithm is you know presenting you positive feedback I can see how that can happen because it almost feels like a bit of a Brexit situation where even just looking at those three metrics that I described. It's not all negative. It's not all positive. It's not even neutral. It's like people either hate it and they think it's horrible or there are people who are saying, you know, it's actually really great. Like the Rolling Stone gave it a great review. And then

The Guardian gave it two stars. The New York Times seems to love this album or maybe not love it, but like it. And then Pitchfork gave it 5.9. It is just like a bizarre environment and a bizarre response to an album, I think. It seems like no one can really agree. But when you hate it, you hate it. Or if you listen to it enough, then you go, well, hang on. I mean, I read, I went to, into the heart of darkness, just kidding. I went on a Taylor Swift Reddit where a fan or an admin was calacing reviews of all star levels to just have them all in one place, all of Taylor's appearances, all of her interviews, and all of the reviews that they could get their hands on. So I read, on the train up to Manchester I read like 12 different reviews of this album which I never normally

would do but I was like I do need to see what the critique of this is because to refresh everyone's memories like this is not a music podcast we are if we've shared our opinions of of the album it's just because we're three guys having a chat about music we aren't reviewers I think maybe the two of you have a slightly higher entry point into like understanding why this music is is achieving what it is or isn't I just listen with my ears and I'm like I'm bopping or I'm not It's really a boppermeter for me, but I read so many. And we had a few messages, again, talking about this algorithm, talking about these echo chambers and these bubbles. But this is the mainstream media.

A lot of the bad or lower star reviews did have praise where I think praise was due. The BBC also gave it a pretty good review, said there's not an ounce of fat on any of these songs. At 41 minutes, The Life for Showgirl is the shortest album Swift has released since her debut in 2006. and the laser focus is a welcome relief after the bloated word soup of tortured poets. So I don't think there is a single line that the media is sticking to. Yes, there were some really damning reviews.

I read Alex Petridis's piece in The Guardian, which, again, was quite damning, and I can see why Swifties wouldn't like that. Adrian Horton also wrote for The Guardian. Years into Imperial era, swift cyclical feeding of her fan bases started to seem less like an act of mutual devotion and more nakedly exploitative,

the many one-off re-releases, which will get into, finals and limited edition target drops like a billionaire's tax on her most loyal. So again, like the critique, I think, is both Swift herself of her business practice, but it's also of the album itself, which later in that same piece wrote Tinley Light with a lazy execution and first draft quality of someone up against a deadline. I don't believe that there is an anti-Swift, intentional anti-Swift sentiment in people writing these reviews, I do think, because the mainstream media, as much as once upon a time Taylor Swift was a meme and a punch bag

and a sort of a joke of what bad music is, a lot of time has passed since then. And now there is no loss of cultural cachet to love Taylor Swift. We had Aisha in our DMs who said she is the one female artist who is consistently criticised no matter what I find this tedious. And I would counter that with, I don't know a single female artist who isn't criticized and very often and unfairly, which I will absolutely see. Taylor Swift has been treated terribly, misogynistically, and very unfairly. But I think arguments of unfair treatment pale a little bit when you think of her awards cabinet, for example, her accolades of bank balance and her fandom. I mean, ticket

sales, popular appeal, I don't think, I think we are long past the point where being a fan of Taylor Swift is shameful. Tickets to her gig sell out. It is like a mark of social achievement to go. politicians want to go other celebrities want to go and to be seen that I really don't think she is alone in receiving this criticism of female artist and also the praise she gets is monstrous it just is if you are at the top

if you are the most famous if you are doing the most if you are pretty much at that zenith point the coverage will reflect that every single publication on earth will want to cover it and if it's not favourable I don't think we can say that there is a vendetta even if among that there is a lot

of misogyny so I don't know I think having read as much as I did, I just hundreds and hundreds of words of criticism, I start to feel less and less like there was a hit out on the album and more and more like, well, critically and from a musical perspective, it just didn't quite land. And that doesn't have to mean anything to the fans, but it's very interesting from a pop culture perspective, having seen her go from strength to strength to strength to land here at something which is not universally panned, but sort of widely not getting the five-star treatment this time. Also, I think a bit of context to that, I completely agree with what you said, is also the kind of fear of retribution from Swifty fans that means that

often there's a fear that there's a bias the other way. The media outlets can be more supportive and make sure that their, you know, Swifty game is really high because it is a really legitimate part of culture. It is, you know, one of the biggest parts of mainstream culture. The ERAs tour was ginormous. And the kind of Swifty fan base obviously is so, so united, most of the time, so online, so, you know, ready to respond. And it can be quite militant at times. There are fractions of it, which are obviously very militant as a fan base. They are famous for it. So I think it's interesting that there's a fear of like an anti-Swiftism. because I also think there's a fear on the other side of if you say something that is really,

you know, destructive and harmful or a really low review and you put your name to it. Previously, those writers have been on the receiving end of really, really harmful, very intense, you know, online responses and swift, ironically, feedback from the fans. So I think I understand if you're a swifty and you feel like, you know, there's a negative review. Sometimes if you think there's a, there's that feeling of people, looking to destroy Swift, you know, that's your right to feel that. But I also just want to point out on the other side, a lot of people do think there is a slight sycophancy with media outlets kind of pandering to fandoms, not just Swift fandoms, but just like general fandoms. So

don't really give honest reviews in that way, too. Yeah, let's get into the misogyny of it all, because we had a few messages on this. So Laura said, people love to demonize Taylor Swift, especially surrounding conflicts, men make distrax and they are critically acclaimed. Kelly said, full of bops, people love to tear a woman down. Izzy said, it's a flop, but people have been waiting to be misogynistic in public about her. And I think there is this, I'm conscious of this idea that is there, even from within me, a bit of Schadenfreude when I was seeing, I mean, they were, I have to admit, really making me laugh, like all of the memes and the takes about the Charlie XXX conflict. Like, people were just, I think, being very funny online. And I was

trying to challenge myself to, am I feeling a bit too gleeful about people finally coming out the woodwork? But I think it comes from what you temperature, which is that actually Stan culture can create an air of fear for people that do want to have real critique. And I think with Taylor, what's so interesting is, I absolutely agree that women face misogyny. But this is so much bigger. And I think maybe all of our, maybe are like kind of not overly, overly interest in her is more about Taylor who she is as a person, what she represents in terms of her billionaire status, potentially her lack of kind of speaking out on big world issues. That is something that actually brings me, draws me in to be a fan of someone even just beyond their music. And so I don't think

that she is beyond reproach. I don't think anyone is. But I actually think that perhaps because this album has fallen flat, even in the eyes of the swifties, it perhaps has given people a bit more courage to step out and say things that they maybe wouldn't have said. And I listened to Caroline O'Donoghue's former guest of the podcast and we're all a massive fan of her's sentimental garbage episode that she did with Jen County about the album. She's a massive Swifty, but she was lovingly critical of the album. And she said, what does she want all this money for? She was like, she is literally the richest person on the planet. And she is really seeing all of these extra albums they had both gone there was like a movie release that you could go to

I don't know if it was before the album when the album was released where Taylor does like a three four minute talking interview before each song introducing what it's about explaining it kind of thing she said that her and Jen gladly paid the 20 pounds they really enjoyed it they went on a night out where they played exclusively Taylor Swift music they said that they think this album is a really fun album to play like a hen party or a wedding and they you know they weren't saying it's her best songs but they also weren't disliking it, but they also were actively happy to criticise the fact that, you know, she's an extremely rich woman and she is an agent of capitalism in a society where is it

actually maybe misogynistic to say that we can't critique women? Is that a bit pandering and patronising actually? Because we do all criticise the fact that Jeff Bezos is a billionaire, that Elon Musk is a billionaire. Where do we draw the line and actually realise that we're, to quote, phrase, what does she say girl bossing too close to the sun are her fans girl bossing too but close to the sun by excusing some of the things that she does outside of her music that's a question i guess i want to ask you know what i think in terms of her in terms of this moment and capturing the moment of all of the memes around this album and then spilling out onto her as a person it just really she's really reminding me of drake and i keep getting callbacks to during the kendrick and drake beef there was

almost this like gleeful oh drake's having his moment he's always been a bit of a cringe figure to some people to his fans he you know at wireless he performed every day during wireless and it was packed this year so some people do not you know it hasn't penetrated them all the memes and the joke culture around him but for people who have been waiting for some kind of moment for him to get his comeuppance because of his i guess what he represents in pop culture which is a bit a relic, maybe a bit of a soft boy, maybe a bit of a, you know, barely concealed, sexist in some of his songs and the ways he talks about women. It felt like the moment allowed people to relish that and he kind of, quote unquote, obviously lost the battle against Kendrick

very publicly. It was very embarrassing. But I think, I wonder if it's a bit of that where it's just like, I think maybe you're right. Jokes are a way for us to kind of release and to kind of process And I think, I don't, I think there's probably multiple moments happening at this time with this album. And one of the moments that we're part of is just people probably relishing a bit of that are now finally I get to say this. Finally I get to say, I've not really loved her music that much without fear of retribution online. I think what you said is right. I don't think that's necessarily misogynistic, all of it. I think some of it might be. But I also think we, we do this to celebrities. Sometimes we do kind of relish a little bit in the fall. Katie Perry experienced it

last year and it got a bit nasty, I do have to say, even though a lot of it was quite funny. So I think women definitely get the brunt of it, but I do think some of this kind of processing of the music, some of the kind of relishing, some of the possible gearing up for a war between two celebrities facing off, you know, in their music. It's not just for women, but I think women do get the brunt of it. She's just really reminding me of a Drake-like figure at the moment and I wonder if we are going to see ourselves doing the are you camp, Charlie, are you camp Taylor thing? Yeah, I'm already seeing it, which I do think misses the point. As fun as that might be and as sort of tempting as whatever much might come from that might be,

but I sort of feel like I need to resist that. It feels a little bit like a race to the bottom to see so many messages being like, ah, but we loved it when it was two men. It's like, well, should we have? or I just don't necessarily think the answer is, okay, well, everyone will co-sign every single example of one very famous celebrity, calling another famous celebrity a Coke addict in public. I don't necessarily think you want to get by on a loophole on that one to say, well, other people have gotten away with it.

It does not necessarily make it an okay thing to do. And I think you have to look a little bit closely at this beef in particular and make your own mind up. I don't think we can go by, well, look, there's a, there's precedent here, like legal precedent in the beef world where it's happened before and we've taken entertainment from it. Like, if it is entertaining for you and you feel good about that, get in there. But if you do think, oh, she has maybe, she is maybe punching down here as the argument's been made when you are the most famous person in the world, the biggest artist with the most clout and power, it's always going to be punching down, sorry, like you just have certain

responsibilities in that role so as not to to punch down again everyone can make their own mind off about that but i have found actually even in reading researching this like i felt a level of nervousness to talk about taylor swift on the podcast or any public platform in a way that i haven't about you know big global issues because the backlash is just so exhausting and i think some messages that we got and some messages i got separately when i tweeted about this confuse me a little i think to read again and again, like, well, you're not a Swifty. And so you'll think this, I bet you love the album getting dragged or like, I know you all hate Taylor Swift. And I just thought, oh, that's not true. That's not a real thing about me. I don't, I don't, that's not how I feel. And I know

that's not how I feel. It's, it's difficult just to separate people into Swifties and non-Swifties. Just because someone isn't a mega fan, just because someone can isolate criticisms of the most famous women in the world when their job is to cover pop culture does not mean, I think, that you can't speak sense about her or you can't have a well-formed opinion that isn't rooted in, you know, misogyny because, I don't know, I feel very defensive of the fact,

like we are independently-minded people. And as I said at the top, I love the fuck out of so many Taylor Swift songs. But also I do have critiques of her conduct and business practices, which are informed by the reality of her behavior and also do apply to the Beyonce's of the world. They do apply to every famous billionaire

on the planet and every. shady secret billionaire. I think my opinion of her music sits separately. And I do understand the impulse to defend against misogyny. But sometimes it does feel like it's not done with the nuance of someone can be a victim of vast misogynistic abuse, you know, on a media scale and also on the scale, a cultural scale. People have been terrible for entire life. Well, also actually just be worthy of criticism, I think. I do, I'm trying to feel this from the side of people that are like but she saved my life her music has saved my life the communities i've built underneath her umbrella of her discography have saved my life this is she is an artist worthy of

her fame i just don't i don't um debate that point but i do think this idea that there's like a nefarious anti-tailor agenda among just like commentator class like us i'm very curious about and and the minute i stepped away from it and was like i don't need to take this personally i just got so curious about this that there is this protective cladding around her. What's that in response to? Does that feel like a social good to the people that are throwing all of their weight behind this one woman? Does it feel like being anti-misogynistic on a culture level, which I don't think it is? I'm fascinated by it as much as I'm also a 32-year-old woman worried about falling foul of something called Taylor Nation.

Well, you did. You said it in the group. You're like, I'm a bit worried about us doing this. And, you know, it's interesting because I always make the point say I'm not a Swifty, just meaning that like I'm not a diehard fan. But much like you, her songs are on all of my running playlist. I'm never not listening to Taylor. But it's exactly just because I can't, I, in order to be like a mega fan of a pop star, which I'm not really a stand of many musicians. I'm probably a stand of Miley Cyrus. I love her. But still not to the extent of some people's fandom of Taylor. But it's like I like her music. I'm just not, to me, as Swifty is someone who's like, completely absorbed by her. And we had so many messages which kind of relate to what you were saying about just because you can find the loophole. So we had a message from Rachel that said at the end of the day, she's a business woman.

If she's done anything wrong, fine, but don't need to destroy her for it. Have your opinions, but don't get the pitchforks out. Men do far worse. And again, it's that really interesting thing of like, just because men do it, does that mean being like, well, men are going to carry on getting away with it? So let's let women get away with it. maybe it should be let's hold men to higher standards then rather than that. And we had a message from Aditi that read,

I'm a Swifty and I was so disappointed with the life of showgirl. Not all music needs to be relatable, but it's so unrelatable out of touch and tone deaf to be writing an album about how being famous is so hard. However, it hates you when you're the most famous and beloved pop star around and start beef with a very popular pop star, also biased because I'm a Charlie fan of, really interested in how some American fans are finding the values a bit tradwife adjacent. Taylor type feminism has always been quite. shallow, but in the Maga Age, when there are so many absolute fucks things going on

the world, an album about how you love your fiancé's dick and whoever hates you, and criticism of you is misogyny is dull and not funny. And I think that that's quite an interesting take and an element that we haven't gotten into, which again is that this album perhaps more than any other, perhaps in this exact climate, does feel sort of like active ignorance or just like an active misstep away. And there's a really great tweet responding to an interview that Taylor did on BBC where she just said, I'm not touring again, I'm so tired. He was like, sing about that.

That would have been really interesting and also not felt like you're sort of actively ignoring what's happening around you. You're actively speaking from how you're feeling. And I agree and I kind of thought that that's what this album would be about. But I'd wonder if you guys had any thoughts on this idea that, you know, it's maybe a bit trad-wifey. It's maybe the angle of the album actually is,

is quite interesting in this current climate. Yeah, I had quite. a few discussions with friends about that in the wake of it because it does feel like quite an important point and art can't exist in a vessel on its own obviously it is constantly in communication with the time that it comes out in it's in communication with the ideas and the concepts and the politics of the time so i think regardless if it's an individual singing about it the way it lands is the environment that it comes out in which is all of this kind of aggressive politics, the rolling back of women's rights, the rolling back of fucking hell,

like LGBT rights across the world, across the West. So I think regardless of the fact that she is probably so isolated in her bubble of living her life, you know, I mean, she does consume politics. She obviously gets into like massive battles with Donald Trump. She knows what's happening. It is a bit of a, it is a bit of a tone deaf point to make. And I get she's really happy. Every artist should be allowed to have her. I'm in love, I'm having the best, you know, dick of my life album. I think that's a god-given right. But you also can't blame fans for listening to it and just going, oh, oh, oh, I don't really, you know, that doesn't sit very well with me. And I do think, sadly, it will come off a bit tone deaf.

It does come off a bit tone deaf. And I think regardless of the fact that she's allowed to have an album where she sings about that, I think fans are also allowed to be like, I just, wish she just said something a bit cooler. I wish she, you know, wrote something a bit more progressive, a bit more controversial, a bit more provocative that challenged all of the politics that we're getting fed around women should be going back to the kitchens, gender norms from the 50s are the ways things should be. I also think those two things can sit at the same time. The other thing I wanted to say is, I know you touched briefly on Charlie's stuff. When I had, when I first heard actually romantic, I did do an intake of breath.

And I probably, I probably felt quite, I was really shocked when I heard the song because I did not think that she would do it. And I know we said it up top, but it really, I was not expecting her to do a disc track or not even a disc track. I guess a comeback to what has been going on with Charlie behind closed scenes. And I guess my take on it is, I'm not a blind Charlie fan. I'm not a Swifty. I am just a critical person. Exactly like Beth said, I'm in it for the love of the game. I love pop culture.

we all do. That's where we come from with everything. But I think from an optics point of view, if I was on her PR team, I would have said that that is just a really bad move. I think the reason Charlie's song's sympathy is a knife came off so well is because she turns the gun on herself. Ultimately, it's a song about insecurity. It's not really about Taylor Swift. It's about hating yourself and how insecure you can be. That really, you can't look at yourself in the mirror and you really just like turn inwards and start hating those parts of yourself. Regardless of what has got on behind closed scenes, that's a smart fucking song. It's a song that really gets to people because that's a difficult emotion to sit with.

It's a difficult emotion to write about. It's really quite vulnerable. And I think what what Taylor has done has just addressed it in quite a two-dimensional way. And even if that's how you feel, even if you felt hurt, it's not a smart way to respond publicly. It's quite a juvenile way to respond publicly. and I think she could have done better she is smart she does you know she's written incredible lyrics before

she is capable of doing better so I don't I think that is quite a let down just on a big picture scale but yes with the tradwife stuff I also have felt people being really disappointed about that so that's quite an interesting point to this whole album what do you think Beth this is where I do feel like very heavy

is the head that wears the crown because she has she is singing about her life and as much as that is very insular, I suppose it always has been, apart from the, I guess, the reputation era where she was taking aim outwards again at the culture and her treatment within that, which then, I guess, led to not indirect,

but secondary support for other marginalised groups because she kind of got it and she did around that. You know, there were these sort of semi-political songs on the albums post that. The minute she was like, again, I'm done, being everyone's puppet. It seemed that she was, and with Miss Americana, her Netflix film,

there was a moment where you went, oh, okay, Swifty the activist and someone who does speak outwards. But apart from that, her music has always been about feeling and emotion and the pain of the individual applied to the millions of fans. I do feel like it's difficult to be making music in this time because everyone will be going. But how does this work in this culture? whereas, you know, it's a lot to expect from our pop stars.

I understand that at the same time, if you are the most powerful. Unfortunately, that is, you want to wear the crown. Unfortunately, you do have the influence over the court. There was a quote in a review for enemy, which said she remains a compelling protagonist, but her concerns largely take pace within the parissocial panopticon that is social media. Just outside the castle walls, America and the world continue to wrestle with climate change, fascism, genocide. And I don't think this is even a criticism, the album, to say,

she should have talked about those things. I think it is just maybe further explanation for why it didn't work. I do, she's a 35-year-old woman who has been singing about love, who has been searching for the right partner for a very long time, her wanting to get married and have a child. It's nothing inherently tradwife about that. But when you place it in the culture, then it becomes this sort of seedling of,

oh, what does this mean? Is this going to become a sort of album, or a figurehead for people who are really gunning for blonde white Americans to have lots of babies. You know, it's not, it's certainly not her fault if that was the case. And I was also reading about like the song canceled where people already were predicting it would be this MAGA anthem because she's singing about, you know, I like my friends canceled. And on the right, who are already weaponizing cancellations in just the most absurd way,

it's already a badge of honor to be like, well, the left tried to cancel me, I think indirectly again, not her fault that could easily be co-opted by a group of people to represent something. It just felt people were like, oh, this sort of feels in this era, if this song had been released in a different time, it would be taken differently. It feels like it's going to be a female MAGA anthem for the ages. It's just really difficult, but, you know, music has received in the time that you release it. And I do feel that this is a really interesting time for this album to come out where it does feel a little shallow in terms of outwardly directed observations. It is very interior, which you come to

expect, but I don't know, I had a few moments of like, oh, yikes, I wonder how that is going to age. I wonder how we will look at these songs. I wonder the impact of these songs for an increasingly fascist, increasingly individualistic world. What? is that going to look like and I don't know if it's good so as someone that listen to her music from arm's length if I'm just putting my headphones on and listening to the songs and I message you girls with this I was like it they're so catchy like after a while I was just like I know every lyric but if I'm listening with more of a critical hat on as someone who isn't like overly obsessed with her like doesn't feel any sort of way about being like oh how what do I think about

this we had two messages that really made me think so we had one from kate that said Charlie has a history of being mean for no reason. Actually, romantic was well-deserved. And then we had a message from Lauren which said, it's weird. With Wood, I wondered if I'd find it so cringe if it was Sabrina. I don't know. Part of me it's like, we know she can right well let her have fun

and the other part just felt like it was music for the sake of music and I couldn't connect with it. The reason those two messages stood up for me was I think where the album started to fall apart for me was I was like, who is she trying to be with this album? What is she trying to do? The girl's so confusing remix with Lord actually made me like tear up

when I re-listened on this, like Lord's reception of that song and her response to it being like, just remember inside of you, I forget that inside of you, there's still that young girl from Essex, I write for you, Charlie. You know, there is, Charlie is a spikier artist by nature and she is a bit more edgy and she is a bit more cutting. Sabrina Carpenter is full of innuendo. Everything she does, says and moves is an innuendo. Taylor Swift, as we know her, is someone that is much more romantic. She's a self-confessed poet. You know, she has a style and she can do these fun, more like poppy songs that she's done

before with the same collaborators. And there's a speech that's going around at the minute, which I can't remember which award ceremony is, but she's standing up on stage and she goes, everyone said that I had too many boyfriends, so I did this. Everyone said that I was two in the public eye, so I went out of the public eye. Everyone said that I was doing XYZ and I responded. and it's interesting as an artist that says she's not very online that all of her music actually does seem to be

in response to whatever the cultural climate is towards her in that moment on the song that's potentially meant to be about Olivia Rodrigo because Olivia Ridigo interplated or sampled some of Taylor's song without asking her oh and on Father Figure I believe that's like a response to her but in the song actually romantic it actually sounds like Olivia Rodrigo what I was getting more was is Taylor feeling like these are my competitors I've got to kind of pick and choose bits of what they do and like put it into this album and that's I guess more just as a listening experience even though the songs sounded fun to me and I can enjoy some of the

songs in the album I wonder if it's more like again it feels like she's reacting and responding to what's happening within the music industry and within her fan base whereas it would have been stronger. We had so many messages on this and we've touched on this a bit where people are just like, it feels very rushed. It feels responsive and it feels rushed. And I do think, like Viterra said, it's your God give him right to write about your man's mess of dick. Absolutely fine by that. But it did feel weird. And even there are lots of swearing. She's constantly calling women a bitch, which I don't enjoy in any scenario. I kind of hate women calling each other a bitch unless it's like funny in a funny like friendly way and that was what of I guess my criticisms if I'm really

paying attention to the lyrics really paying attention to the sound one of my criticisms is more it didn't feel authentic to what I know her to be even though interestingly she's come out and said this album is the most me album I've ever created which I also think creates a sense of confusion as to who she is as an artist and I wonder if you noticed on listening that whether you felt like some of the lyricism, some of the sound felt slightly inconguent to her previous output, which again, people are allowed to change. But within one album to have that much kind of jumping around, I thought was an interesting choice. Yes, retweet everything you said. Did you also feel like Opelite sounded like a Sabrina Carpenter song? Because

I kept hearing Sabrina throughout this album at different points. Actually, romantic, sounds like an Olivia Rodrigo song, completely agree. And I had a chat with a friend about this. I feel like the way the direction is meant to go, when I've listened to Olivia Rodriguez, Sabrina Carpenter, Tate McCrae, even Chapel Rowan, I always get like slight pieces of DNA of Taylor in their music. And I think that's a beautiful thing. These new artists have absorbed the cultures. You know, they're also reminiscent of Dolly Parton, Kate Bush, all these kind of immense divas before their time. And To hear Taylor Swift's album sounding more like a Sabrina Carpenter or Olivia Rodrigo album really broke my brain because for me, the direction is meant to go up, not down.

She is meant to be leading the pack. And if anything, if any Swifties are listening to this and thinking that, you know, what I'm saying is derogatory, that should be a fucking compliment. I am complimenting the shit out of her. Her music is so influential that the new pop stars of our time have her DNA in their music. They're inspired by this, you know, behemoth of pop culture. that's what I'm saying. And so for her music to actually feel like weaker versions of her own music made me feel really sad.

It shouldn't be like that. It shouldn't sound like that. That shouldn't be what this is. And I guess what I'm trying to say is I think what you're saying is right. And especially I think Max Martin obviously has to pay for his crimes here too. So much of the music that he's done in the past, even the music he's done with her has been so powerful those pop music those pop songs that really like our earworms to you know decades later being out in the club and like blank space will come on and you feel in yourself a guttural like

fuck yes let's go on the dance floor that this just doesn't have that same quality and i don't think it should be sounding like other people i think it should be sounding like taylor swift and i think at the core you hit the nail of the head that's what it was for me i thought it was going to be this surging, powerful pop fucking album with Taylor Swift injected all over it. And it just doesn't sound like that to me. It sounds fine. It reminds me of Sabrina's new album, which to be honest, I haven't said on the podcast, but I was really disappointed by it was fine. You know, I could listen to it. But it's, I expect so highly of these people because I think they're better than all of this. And I think there's a lot to be said about the productivity element between

both artists. They've just come off these huge tours. They've just had albums that have performed extremely well before their latest releases. Take a breather. Take some time. Kendrick Lamar took five years between his albums and I love them. I adore them. Artists do that all the time and I think it's a very important thing to do. But I think in our streaming culture, that's not rewarded. Taking time away is not rewarded. What is rewarded is productivity pushing out content at all costs and capitalising of the content you make and I think that is I think that's bleak I don't think that should be the way especially for artists I think as we talked about in our cultural snobbery episode it does feel very much about quantity at the moment more

and more and more and it feels like it would be a guess she might be sailing through this but it does feel like she must be pushing herself to an insane degree as both a performer and a recording artist and also a business person and public person, not to mention who knows what's going on in her personal life, it's a lot. It's, you know, to have recorded this album while on that Herculean era's tour to be kind of flying from around places in Europe performing and then recording and then writing,

I think it, if I was, I mean, just as a human person in the world, I'm like, are you okay? Is everything okay? Like I'm very awed by a person that can do and do and do to this degree, agree. But I wonder whether that is driven by a desire or a knowledge that she will be taking a break at some point in the future and wants to offer to her fans this amount of work and to kind of really bolster her incredible body of work at this point or if she's just on a mad one. Like it is an insane amount of work. We got a message from Jessie who said she needs to step away from the fame slash hyperproductive cycle. She clearly isn't as good at multitasking as she

think she is and live life, enjoy her marriage, maybe have those kids she is singing about wanting and then come back fresh. And really, whether she wants to step away or not, an album that does feel as this has felt to a lot of people, a little bit rushed, a little bit incoherent, might be a signal to go and find that sound that she may be pursuing at the moment. And I read, because a lot has been made of this, the various sounder likes and, you know, the opening to actually romantic is you can sing the pixies where you can sing pixies where is my mind along to that the song that i loved from the album the most the life for showgirl i went to listen to that and then i listened to the track that everyone says it's like cool by the jonas brothers so i was like oh same song same song

cool cool like a lot has been made of that and i was reading peach for pitchfork i wonder i can't remember one of you sent this to me by anna gacker who writes these aren't obscure sound likes they are several of the most famous songs already ever made now recreated in the genre of taylor Swift song. Whatever vision Martin and Shelbach set out to realize here is not really serving her strengths and intentionally or not appears to signal a disinterest in evolution, which I think just echoes what you said, Ruchera, you're expecting the next thing and the next thing because she really is the best of the best. She's very good at what she does. She has offered to her fans this evolution for such a long time while maintaining what is very pure Taylor Swift, the

the lyrical flair which is so capable of and I think they notice when it's there and it's not there and something new but something very hurt this felt a little a little jaggedy it felt like the midpoint between really discovering what is next to taylor swift it just felt like maybe it came out a little bit too soon and an artist that is doing and doing and doing without taking that proper break i think artistry is in the breaks it's in the kind of fallacies to let things grow it does make me think, again, this is a person putting out products, not an artist who is attempting to really put out the best art. And I will criticize in her, what I, you know, in other people, what I see in her, that relentless, capitalistic drive to put products into the market and reap

the rewards, no matter the quality. But the other artists, you know, the other billionaire artists, the other, the Beyonce, is I don't think they're doing this. And so unfortunately, I will have to just criticise her. I think this is a very uniquely Taylor Swift phenomenon. Part of the reason why it's so catchy is every single song has interpolations of some of the most famous songs we know. So there are media earworms because you already know the melody before you've even listened to the song properly. One criticism from a lot of Swifties, which I found really interesting and I actually think is a bad place to be, bad place to go from. And we had it in our DMs. I've seen it in lots of articles is people being like basically I only think Taylor makes

good music when she's depressed and she's clearly really happy now. And so she's just not is good music and I think that is one place that we cannot force musicians or artists to be is to be depressed so that you like, you know, sonically how their music comes out. And I think that I understand what they're saying because it's all of that, the folklore and the beauty of it and the kind of acoustic nature they love. But then at the same time, people are using that as a defence to back up this album being like, well, she's happy now. So, you know, this is a happy output. But because of everything we've said, I think hopefully everyone listening to this can agree that actually, you know, it perhaps was a bit rushed. It's not really about being

a show girl. It sounded, it's so interesting because in those interviews that she did about the album, it must have been finished. The way she describes it is completely different from the album that has come out. We got a message from Imogen, which was a very long message, but I'm going to, and a very good message, but I'm just going to isolate one bit, which I thought was very worth thinking about as where I sit, which is non-Swifty, not a hater, but a big, big critic of Taylor Swift as a business person. She said, also think in a few weeks people will be loving these songs a lot more. Love the event of the album release, going to cinema to watch the film, waking up at 6am to listen to it. The new

versions that dropped over the weekend was so fun. I love the album even more after seeing it in the cinema and the music video was pure artistry. I will say, as much as I hate that she has made money-making event around this, I do think she should have done it as fan service and a lot of it should have been free. I can't look away from the fact that she has created something that does bring people a huge amount of joy. And even if, you know, critical acclaim and award success isn't achieved by this album and isn't how it's remembered, under her discography, as I said before, like, there are so many thousands of people with the same experience of Imogen of, like, gleaning so much joy, these group chats, these friendship groups, these communities have sprung up and

and have brought a huge amount of joy to the participants. And I think, I think the group themselves should give themselves the credit or the most credit for that. But ultimately, they are connecting over her work. As much as I think she falls short, ethically speaking, as like a silent billionaire, her legacy is also this. It is also the 6am wake-up, the group chats, the trips out, things that make people's lives joyful.

And that, you know, I think I have just been not ignorant to that, but I haven't really been looking at that as part of the art as well. do appreciate that this is something that is highly positive for people and I would never want to none of us here do want to to leach from that and if nothing else this album has cheered up a lot of the swifties and also an only so a win on some fronts if not all fronts but I'm sorry my last thing to add to that is I think where we've got to get to culturally is a place where you can absolutely enjoy things that people also can critique and I think we have to get there we have some extra bonus takes from writing

and journalist and friend of the podcast, Chloe Laws, weighing in with her thoughts on The Life of a Showgirl. I guess a bit of context is that I used to be quite a Taylor Swift fan. I found her quite late and got really into her in lockdown. So I think the folklore album was the one that really solidified. I liking her music and then the Evermore album as well. I was never like a superfan or bought into like any sort of cult personality that just isn't how I have a relationship with celebrity. but I definitely enjoyed her music and had a lot of fun at the year as tour

had loads of fun at Swiftedgeden thought it was like a really fun community and a nice safe space even though that word is overused it was quite revolutionary to go on a night out full of women and you know men who weren't harassing you so that was yeah that was really special I would say that in recent years I've found a really hard to stomach

I don't believe billionaire should exist so I can't just support her because she makes some albums I like. I think it's the same conundrum with, like, Rihanna. But Rihanna is a bit, you know, I find Rihanna less hard to stomach. I think with Taylor her sway historically over politics. So like not this election run, but the time before when Trump was in was, like pre-Biden was very interesting how she handled that and how she kind of finally spoke out

and it swayed like a state vote, I think, from memory. And for her this time round to do next to like nothing, it was very disappointing to not speak out about Palestine. Not even if she spoke out, I mean, some sort of statement on Palestine I think would have had such a huge sway. And I think she's very aware of her influence and her power. So it's not, you know, that's not an excuse that she wouldn't know. You know, it's a conscious choice at that point. And you have people like Lord who are doing really great, like, optics and activism for Palestine. moment and even if she did it now it wouldn't be too late it would still her hold a lot of power so

i think that is basically where i found her really hard to stomach in terms of the album the new album i think it's actually just like objectively a bad pop album in a year where you know it's been a new wave of pop with sabrina carpenter and take mccray and you know lots of other people to come out with such a mediocre pop album is just a bad business move from her end I think she's probably got to that point of success. I think that has probably created an environment where people don't tell her the honest truth anymore, where she's not creatively collaborating with people anymore,

where she doesn't get told no. I mean, obviously this is like pure speculation, but I think Jack Antonov's involvement in her previous albums, maybe that was like a creative partnership in a way where she was having someone who would turn down these mediocre bad ideas or self-indulgent ideas. Maybe not, but that's, you know, there's a sharp difference in the quality of the album.

That's not saying that she needs someone like Jack Antenov to make her music better, but I do think any creative project at that scale does need collaboration. Or it needs time and breathing room. Like this is just a cash grab greed thing. And I was talking to some friends about it at the weekend where saying any pop star, like any female pop star specifically knows that they have an age cut off really. And that is just patriarchal society where they start. you know, not being so commercial because they can't sell the, like, youthful beauty in that

same way. And people around them, you know, go for the newer, younger model and version of them. And this is like a really horrible, misogynistic part of Hollywood society. And I imagine she knows that all pop stars, even someone at her scale, and she maybe is the biggest one ever, you know, look at Madonna, that there's a shift that happens. Look at Britney. And maybe she's trying to cash grab while she can. Maybe she's trying to, you know, squeeze out the last bit of her 30s in terms of commercial success, knowing that that might change when she hits 40. I don't know.

I think to rush these albums in such an intense way is, you know, it must be for some reason. Maybe that's just commercial Girl Boss Barbie personified. Maybe it's because she knows that in Hollywood women have a shelf life. Maybe it's none in these things and it's another thing. It might just be agreed. but either way the rushing of these albums

has not been conducive to good art the song cancelled was the worst one on the album for me and the funniest there's speculation that it's about Blake Lively I think if it is about her then that's also quite reductive because Blake Lively hasn't been cancelled but what she has been

is the victim of you know an orchestrated bot smear campaign from the same people that did Johnny Debtz to Amber Heard you know if the Guardian reports to be believed so I think if it is about her that's just not a good song anyway

and I think if it's not about her and it's about her, like, Republican friends or whoever, it's very, very silly because she's obviously not cancelled. She's the most successful pop star in the world. She's a billionaire. All her friends are super rich. And in the 1%, you know, it's this classic thing where celebrities scream about cancellation being bad or that it's happening to them when it's not, you know, in reality, very few people have actually been, quote, unquote, cancelled and is cancellation just boycotting?

worth thinking about but I think this lyric Digi Girl Boss Too Close to the Sun is hilarious but also an encapsulation of this entire album because it's really she used to be quite good on like irony this feels really sincere

and that she like has drunk the Kool-Aid to such a extreme degree that there's just nothing relatable about her anymore she's kind of the power in a lot of her older albums was this relatability and she hasn't nothing in this album's relatable and you know even though she has

is a billionaire and there isn't anything relatable about her, you know, she has nothing in common with the majority of her fans anymore, whether or not they want to believe that. She could have explored some feelings that, you know, would have resonated with her fan base. I also think actually romantic if it is about Charlie is, as everyone's saying, hilarious because she's just completely misunderstood sympathy as a knife. One thing I don't really subscribe to is this whole idea that, like, this disc track makes her anti-feminist. I don't think there's anything feminist about her work anymore and it's not inherently feminist, but I also think the thing that makes her a bad feminist is her politics

and her lack thereof and her silence on important issues, especially women's issues, and Palestine and, you know, in this latest Trump era, she has, she could have done so much more in her sway is so large. That's not to say she does nothing, but she does very little, and that for me makes her bad feminist not, you know, a pop song about Charlie XX, X, X, who I'm sure loads people streamed sympathy as a knife since then, so she's probably made quite a lot of money off this. All right. See you soon. Bye. Thank you so much for listening this week and for all of your incredible thoughts on this topic. Quick reminder that we're on Instagram and TikTok at Everything's Content Pod with extra behind

the scenes content and ways for you to take part and suggest topics for our upcoming episodes. If you enjoyed this episode or literally any episode ever, please do leave us a rating and a lovely five-star review on your podcast player app. It means the world. See you as always on Friday. Bye.