Everything Is Content - Eyebrow blindness, forgiving bullies and athletes in lingerie

Episode Date: July 12, 2024

Who wants some content?! Join Beth, Ruchira and Oenone as we take a look at some of the most talked about pop culture stories of the week.We discuss TikTok diagnosing everybody with so-called "eyebrow blindness"… is there ever a good time to tell someone their make-up looks bad? We also discuss Katy Wix’s powerful yet divisive piece for the Observer about forgiving her childhood bully and a new lingerie campaign featuring international rugby players - is this 2016 girlboss feminism all over again, and why do we place so much importance on being beautiful above all else?Make sure you go back and listen to our two deep dives on beauty and ageing if you want to hear more about some of the topics we discuss in this episode! Who’s up for doing Julia Fox’s memoir Down The Drain as our next Everything Is Content Book Club? Let us know on Instagram @everythingiscontentpod#ContentIsBeautiful—DAVID NICHOLLS: You Are Here APPLE PODCASTS: Memory Lane with Kerry Godliman and Jen BristerSPOTIFY: Memory Lane with Kerry Godliman and Jen BristerJULIA FOX: Hey, that was meJULIA FOX: Down The Drain GRAZIA: What is eyebrow blindness? THE OBSERVER: Could you forgive your childhood bully? GLAMOUR: Do sportswomen really need to be ‘sexy’ to be taken seriously?—Follow us on Instagram:@everythingiscontentpod @beth_mccoll @ruchira_sharma@oenone ---Everything Is Content is produced by Faye Lawrence for We Are GrapeExec Producer: James Norman-FyfeMusic: James RichardsonPhotography: Rebecca Need-Meenar Artwork: Joe Gardner  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

can you hear eddie snoring i can hear the dog snoring but i didn't want to say anything because it was this was you no your body was making this it is actually a dog not me i am awake i'm beth i'm richara i'm anoni you are listening to everything is content we're three friends who love yapping about all things pop culture it's passion, so we do it every week on a podcast just for you. We're the wildflowers in the meadow of content. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at everythingiscontentpod. And if you love the podcast, please tell a friend. It really, really, really, really, really, really, really helps us out.

Do you want to add another really there, Richira? Okay, yeah. Can we go back? Really, really, really helps us. Really, really, really want to zig a zig. Today on the podcast, we're discussing the epidemic of eyebrow blindness, the ethics of forgiving your childhood bully,

and the sexualisation of female sports stars. So what have you been loving this week, girls? I forgot we had to do this. But you know what? It turns out I have been been loving this week girls i forgot we had to do this but you know what it turns out i have been loving something this week um something i've been loving this week is you are here by david nichols the writer of oh the new one yes i don't know when it came out it was this year i think tell me about it tell me about it it is another little romance it is about two people post-divorce who've kind of hunkered down in life who via a mutual friend find themselves on a coast-to-coast walk in the north of England and it's so David Nichols it's very funny it's very charming it kind of delves into

like human behavior and like psychology and loss and grief and hope but like in a really charming and fun way like I'm not reading it going oh my god it's so entertaining and I have been reading it every spare second I haven't had that with a book in a little while so it's really nice oh that sounds delightful I really want to read that now and only what about you so I have been loving memory lane with Kerry Godleman and Jen Brister who are two comedians that I love I listened to an episode like last year or something completely forgot because I didn't subscribe ran out of podcasts of the day and then oh my god there are so many good episodes and basically what they do is they get the guests to to send them four photos either of like their childhood or growing up or whatever

and then that's just like a nice springboard to have stories and what I really like is I like when a podcast has a format but then it doesn't have to stick to it so some of the episodes end up being quite serious and you know they might go into like childhood trauma or something that was really sad some of them are like comedic through and through where the comedian is kind of putting on a performance about this picture and they just have loads of really good guests I really like Jen Brister and Kerry Godleman anyway they just got this energy about them which I just really enjoy so I would recommend that it's quite a cozy podcast there's loads of names on there you'll recognize you can listen to it anywhere anytime it's not taxing it's a bit of a laugh we've got podcast queen Richard what have you been loving so mine's a little bit different mine is a

tiktok from miss queen Julia Fox from this week where she's come out as a lesbian and the whole timeline has basically been like well you know she was so everyone's feeling so Julia but now we're feeling her even more and I just I want everyone to celebrate and basically just say once again Julia is just the queen of the world right now she really is oh yeah what does she say in the TikTok I need to watch it again well she duetted with this girl who did like oh i just hate seeing all of these lesbians in relationships with these boyfriends not realizing that they actually hate men and then she stitches it and she's like that was me my bad never again sorry to all my boyfriends sorry to all my exes i saw the headline first then i watched it and i was like what if it isn't that serious like what

if she actually was joking even if she is i'm here for it maybe she's in a lesbian era i'm down also i was with a friend recently who listens to the podcast and she was like who's this julia fox so just for like a quick get you up to speed just in case you don't know who julia fox is former partner of kanye west post kim kardashian became an it girl on her own right that's that's all you need to know basically uncut jams uncut jams have you both read her book because i think this is strong contender i mean we probably won't be able to get her on the podcast but to do a little book club because as a memoirs go it's really interesting yes i would love that because she's only like 30 so true is she 30 she's in her

early 30s and she's written this memoir which is rich like she was former dominatrix was in these kind of crazy situations has lost a lot of friends so it's like addicted to heroin like you know now a mother anyway it's rich and i think we should ask the listeners if they want us to talk about i would love book club next time, question mark. Yeah, love. So I'm sorry to say that TikTok's coined yet another phrase. Everyone is talking about eyebrow blindness, which supposedly is the phenomenon of looking back at pictures of yourself and seeing how you used to do your makeup and with this one it's particularly you know the way you used to do your eyebrows

and realizing essentially you look like complete trash people online have been sharing throwback pictures of their worst makeup looks which feature essentially some like really horrific like I don't even know like blocky brows almost like fell tipped in that's some of the ones I've been seeing they do look bad I'm not gonna lie um and you know some super plucked noughties brows as well there are over 140 million videos under the hashtag eyebrow blindness on TikTok now girlies do you think you've been a victim of eyebrow blindness do you know what it is do you get it I've definitely had this with myself in that I really over pluck my eyebrows. And I had them microbladed earlier on this year.

And when I compared them, I'm like, gosh. But it was in the Christmas of 2021. And I was at my sister's house. And she had gifted my mum microblading on her eyebrows. And we were like looking back at the Christmas party. You know how it comes up on her phone. And this picture came up of my mum microblading on her eyebrows and we were like looking back at the Christmas party and how it comes up on her phone and this picture came up of my mum. I honestly, me and my sister could not breathe. She didn't have any eyebrows.

Like they were so blonde. We'd never noticed it before she had the microblading. Like she looked completely normal to us. And then this picture came up and we were like, what? So yes, I know about it. Sorry to like drag my mum. I know because that actually, I know like it's all in love. I was like, it made me like, I think I know about it. Sorry to like drag my mom. I know because that actually, I know like it's all in love.

I was like, it made me like, I think I'm hormonal, like really sad. I was like, every eyebrow is, you know, valid. Like everyone's lovely natural eyebrow. Obviously your mom's got a gorgeous treatment. She's fine.

I have had eyebrow brownies in that I over plucked, thought they looked great, realized one day I hated them. So I think it's a rite of passage for a woman why I'm seeing and hating is women with kind of really already quite tamed like run-of-the-mill brows someone's like your tail's too long or like oh that one's like because I'm sure someone would be like to me oh hon you should trim that little bit there and then they'll be done whereas I think that's just assimilation so I think some people are doing eyebrow blindness some people are just doing eyebrow

meanness oh so just to be clear people in the comments on the videos being like your eyebrows suck and then like doing the work by like calling them out is that what's happening I've seen it yeah I've seen people be like eyebrow blindness on a video that is just someone talking about something else like unprompted and not just eyebrows. Blush blindness. Rude! I thought it was just about, because I've experienced this, it's more like you don't realise it at the time that it's happening and that it's only in hindsight.

Because also, I just want to explain about my mum. She's just very fair and had plucked her eyebrows for years. So, like, none of us thought anything was wrong with it until the comparison came on. She gets something that really suits her. Am I being mean about her? No, no, not at all. I think it is, you're completely right. It's when someone changes something you go oh do you know what you

actually didn't have an eyebrow you can't just go up to a stranger and be like when you don't know that eyebrow history no it's so rude and also like this whole thing where the internet is like hun I'm doing you a favor I'm like telling you you look like trash so you can do something about it like Like that's fucking rude. That's not friendship. That's not like a nice behavior that like is kind of getting fostered online. Who gave you the right?

It's crazy also because the advice for someone like who is eyebrow blind is often to pluck them, to shave the ends off, to kind of, it's not often to add, it's to take away, which as someone who was born in the 90s I did I took too much away and it does not come back and I just think it is giving people very poor advice that they will regret in years to come I've got a three-part response to that the first part is what I thought the whole thing that we were adding when did this happen second

question is only a two-parter second question is why is it only your eyebrows which when you over pluck don't grow back? The amount of times I've removed hair, the amount of times I've removed hair from below my eyelashes and it has grown back. This is a question for a scientist. Because even your eyelashes like don't grow back if you pluck them out too much.

And that's where I want the hair. I just don't get it. No, all the hair you want to come back, you'll never see that bitch again. But like all the ones that's where i want the hair i just don't get it no all the hair you want to come back you'll never see that bitch again but like all the ones you don't want come back powerful stronger more determined angrier they yeah it's so it's so true if there's somebody who knows why can you genuinely tell me because my next like big saving will be lasering the shit out of everything so this i think came about because there's a really viral eyebrow filter on tiktok which i'm actually using as we speak which i mean it's kind of excellent it really

lines up like where your ideal brow should be and people are genuinely shaving whole bits of their eyebrows off off the basis of this perfect eyebrow filter so i think it's all an inside job i don't want to look at that because i have had my eyebrows tattooed on so if they're wrong I feel like the whole thing's really sad because the nice bit is people just laughing at like old versions of themselves and just kind of laughing at trends like eyebrow trends are so severe the fact that like bleached eyebrows are now back in when like 10 years ago if somebody had bleached eyebrows you would be like why why why is this happening it is quite like dramatic so it's quite fun to look back at the whole trend cycle and realize that we are just genuinely blind to how absurd things look and then

like we change constantly but commenting on people like unwarranted unsolicited is just i don't know that bit is just so nuts to me i'm such a big fan of bleached eyebrows everyone who does that i always think it looks amazing say i've found my eyebrow style now and I'm never gonna I don't know what happens I like as bushy as they'll go which isn't that bushy and I like to brush them up with gel I've found my eyebrow style I'm not changing anymore have you guys got to that point or are you still adaptable I'm the same my brows my brows I'll just like try and make them the best they are but I'm not going to change them I think I am in my low maintenance so I'm just kind of letting mine grow the way they grow I did the filter just now and it said I should take quite a bit off the end which I have done in the past and it sort of lifts my face a

bit it does do that that would be so much more work for me every week I don't want to wax them I don't want to do it I'm going low maintenance I'm leaving them as is I just let them grow live your life babe yeah under one of the top videos for the hashtag i don't know if you guys saw this but the comment was i'ma hold your hand when i say this hun and then basically critique the shit out of their eyebrows do you think that there's ever a good time to tell somebody a stranger that their makeup doesn't look good or you know something about how they've done their hair or anything could be improved upon no unless they've just literally asked you i don't know though because i've had someone say to me oh like you

know if you had like a tide mark yeah it would have to be the only contacts that i would work with the strangers if you're drunk in the loo in which case you can kind of say anything as long as it's like useful but that that presumes there was an accident that their eyebrows look like that like they accidentally did that yeah I don't think you could do it on an eyebrow unless you literally had a really long like I don't know if you guys have this but some of my eyebrow hairs are really long and you have to like brush them in the right format otherwise it'll just kind of like it's like a daddy long leg sticking up the granddad hair yeah so I think you could say like today for instance I was literally just at a

brunch and I turn around to Kagi who sat next to me and she was like babe I just have to let you know about your lipstick and then I looked in the mirror and i just had red lipstick like up to my nose oh no kagi dunlop from yeah yeah made in charlotte yeah and she did but she said it so sweetly she was like oh your lipstick's like looked in the mirror expecting there to be like a tiny it was literally oh yeah so i think in that context you can tell people but i don't oh i always do that yeah absolutely i think it's like i will go up to strange on stream be like something in your teeth your label sticking out like obviously subtly or like yada yada yada that is girl power what it's not girl power is going you look like shit yeah also again actually

because i don't think i know that much about makeup if i was in a situation no you can't go up someone on the street i'm trying to think if it's something i didn't really know at a party and they were like by the way if you did your blusher you know you've got it say here if you did it that really lift your face anyone please come up and tell me those things because I actually I don't know what shape my I'm always doing the things I'm like is it a diamond is it a triangle is it a spongebob I don't know I don't know I would also see that as a bit of a power move like if somebody came up to me at a party and they were like babe you know that lipstick color if you just went two shades higher your face would look amazing part of me would be like are they trying to dominate me at this party i don't understand yeah i'd fall in love i'd fall in love in that minute another thing i think is that it's

sort of it's sort of in the realm of like instagram face assimilation because everyone is going you're gonna look good if you just do this and the thing that we want them to do is kind of look a bit more normal and i just don't like it We talked about it in our beauty episode. And I just think it's a little bit too normification for my liking. I love a weird brow. Cara Delevingne was kind of like spearheaded that bushy brow movement.

And I remember being so upset by it because at that point in time, I had been going to Superdrug, honestly, like every two weeks to get the majority of my brow, what's it called? Threaded? Threaded? Threaded off.

But they would get thinner and thinner every time. And then one day it was like, Cara Delevingne says big brows are in, and I was like, well, I physically can't work with this. And I hate that now they're going like, ooh, thin brows are back. I'm like, no, I think at least let us have just like whatever shape our eyebrow is.

The best thing about being slightly older, I feel like, is looking at a trend like that when they're like tiny brows are back and just literally looking at dead in the eye and being like you can fuck off I'm not doing that so true freeing so this week comedian and actor katie wicks wrote an article for the observer about receiving an instagram dm from her childhood bully who she calls erin in the dm erin says i'm sorry i was such a bitch can you forgive me in the rest of the piece katie reflects on the impact of the bullying on the rest of her childhood and adolescence and also the impact it had in adulthood she talks about how even in her 30s she was dressing and behaving in

certain ways because of how she'd been bullied and the stories that she'd internalized about herself as a result and at the end of the article she makes a decision about whether or not to forgive erin and she replies to erin and she says no i don't forgive you so the internet being the internet the piece has been a little bit divisive a lot of people are loving it it's like classic katie wicks if you know kat Katie Wicks I mean not as a friend I wish it's very funny like also very vulnerable which people are really enjoying a lot of adults don't talk about bullying I think because we act like it's something that happens in childhood we should grow up and get over it and for a lot of people that's not the case so I think a lot of people are saying that she's very brave for saying this talking talking about it. It's very vulnerable. It's beautiful.

On the flip side is people being really quite cruel, quite critical, saying that she should be over it. She should have more forgiveness. And the end of the piece is a real letdown. And I wonder if the three of us are going to agree on this or disagree, because I feel really strongly and I don't see myself changing my mind. Anoni, Richira, having read read the piece what were your initial thoughts and like where do you stand on this I read it I thought it was really well written I really loved reading it I was actually really surprised by how she ended the piece I don't feel like I have an opinion that is like a blanket black or white type thing when I read it I was surprised by how she ended the

piece because I think I assumed that everyone was you know on the same page with we're all as human beings striving for forgiveness and if you can't reach that then you wouldn't I guess promote that as a conclusion I think it's really good that she shared this because a lot of people won't be able to get to forgiveness but I guess I am a bit surprised with people commending it as the outcome that we should all accept is the best outcome. If you can't forgive somebody, you should send them a message back and say, I will never forgive you. I don't know how I feel about that. I feel like we're all obviously trying to be compassionate human beings, right?

That's what we're hoping for. Okay. So I went on such a journey with this piece. I loved it. I was reading it I was like god so interesting so true we kind of chalk it up to this really normal childhood experience then I got to the end and I went excuse me what no unexpected absolutely not and I thought what a fucking weirdo why have you done that are you joking so I actually was like what's going on

and then someone retweeted it a man retweeted and said I think I'm like in the minority here but is it not weird to not forgive someone and I was like finally a sane mind amongst all the crazies and then someone replied and they were like what you've said is what she tussles with in the piece she initially types out a response which is what I would have done which is that oh my god of course don't worry at all she sat with it and then she was like actually no I don't forgive you and that's where I was like oh yeah that's so true because you're right I would immediately almost feel guilty having even received that message I would be embarrassed that they were even asking so I would be like oh my god of course it'd be silly I didn't remember even if actually I knew deep down that that bullying had

been like the source of trauma for years and another thing that someone said which I thought was really true as well is the message read sorry I was such a bitch can you forgive me which is like not anything like hi how are you I think you're doing really well in your work it's actually really made me reflect on what I was like with you at school and I wonder if that had an impact on you and if it did then I just wanted to say you know I'm actually really sorry and I would never ask you for your forgiveness but if that was something and I was like that is such a good point because actually the message sorry for being a bitch when and like can you forgive me why like we don't talk I don't know you so who is it for and that was what really changed the response for me because I was like actually yeah this random person reaching out to you being like sorry as a

bitch can you forgive me why are you like trying to tie up loads of loose ends because you're going through a little sin pot or something I don't know what a sin pot is but it sounds fun totally and bitch as well like when she just said like I've been a bitch I think that underplays it kids don't have to realize the impact they've had on other people but like when something's been so traumatic for you and someone says oh yeah I was a bit of a bitch then god can you forgive me I would I would find that quite an affront and I do think reaching out for forgiveness like that is more about that person it is asking someone you've already hurt for a little bit more of themselves like it also suggests that she doesn't forgive herself and I think we get confused

in our like kind of culture of we've got to heal we've got to like seek repentance actually the buck can stop at you just forgiving yourself you can find full closure and peace knowing you've hurt someone and they can live in the world they can hate you but you can still have peace i just think reaching out and asking like quite boldly like that i don't think i would have responded very well either to be honest i was surprised she replied because i think that's what i was trying to say if i had received a message like that and you're right to be honest the message was crap like didn't take any real accountability did really undermine the situation and was like such a weird

phrasing of it all you're totally right I think if I got that I honestly just wouldn't reply and probably would block the person so I guess in a way that's probably an equivalent to her getting back to her in that way I've never really heard anyone speak about saying explicitly not forgiving somebody and telling them that it's quite a rare thing to talk about isn't it? Totally because I haven't forgiven everyone. No I also think it's really intrusive to interrupt someone's life if you have hurt them exactly what you said Beth it's like you've got to make peace with the fact that you've done something wrong in the past and like a lot of people saying like surely we should forgive them and stuff they did when they were children and it's like just because someone was a child or just because their intention wasn't malicious it doesn't mean that it doesn't have an impact you know what i've realized from this chat i a i feel like hearing what you've just said i completely i actually completely agree with you and i feel like i've moved closer to what you're saying because i do

i do see completely what you're saying about the honest truth is she's experienced this massive trauma. The dishonest thing is minimizing it and saying that, you know, it's fine and sweeping it away. That just, that isn't the truth. I think what I'm realizing is it's quite hard to know what boundaries are with compassion, being honest about how you feel about something and the impact of it, and also trying to heal and what that leaves you with after as well in relationship to how you feel about the person who's hurt you. And I think it's all just so messy. And I think I also lean towards being a bit of a people pleaser, which is why my instant reaction is probably like, no, we should all be compassionate. We should probably, you know, all be compassionate we should probably you know all bend towards

forgiveness but the I don't know life just isn't always like that like it's not possible all the time that was definitely my initial instinct as well was forgiveness and I wonder if that is also because we have all been brought up without even without realizing with this like kind of religious doctrine that has kind of been the underbelly of all of our beliefs and morals but moving forwards now I do think kind of culturally even on a more like kind of spiritual or sort of like therapize level which is more about and quite individual which is more about like I guess instead of asking someone else to validate you or to forgive you it's like why don't you just prove that you are now a better person can I read

you some of the tweets I read which I probably you saw Anoni and maybe initially were like, yeah, that makes sense. That actually made my blood, I was so mad at them. And someone said, I'm obviously in a minority here, but I think if an adult comes to you unbidden with an apology for how they behaved as a child, you should attempt forgiveness. I find the way it's presented in this piece really quite bleak and not at all something to admire or emulate. That was the tweet I agreed with. Yeah, I think, and I read that and I kind of thought, but is she asking anyone to admire or emulate it or is she just saying hey i'm a full complex human being um and actually that was quite a balanced one someone else wrote when you're 14 school bullying is horrible it makes you cry but when you're 10 you feel the same about not getting a

remote control car for your birthday in both cases you need to have moved on by your early 20s i was like bitch no that's harsh it's traumatic to be bullied like don't put a timer on it also what metric are we going by i'm still working out stuff from when i was four am i supposed to have done that at 12 like what what's the literally a man tweeted that and i'm like men do not come to awakenings but men just repress things i know that that's a generalization but it is it's true they are and they're encouraged to do that and it sucks but i was like okay taking there's a pinch of salt sir deal with your own shit i think there's like a few kind of reasons why people react like that and i think one of them is just the like minimization of what bullying can do to you and your self-esteem and i feel like katie perfectly encapsulated like the impact it

had on her so it is really surprising that people can just be like dude we've all got bullies get over it kind of vibe and response because i thought that was one of the clearest parts of it where i was like god it really does just like destabilize you and the amount of work and like therapy you have to do to just like kind of paint the outline of yourself after dealing with all of that shit it is huge can i say something else that i saw in the replies that i thought was not funny but actually it did make me laugh it was quite a few people going recently i saw my childhood bully died i had a great day i was like oh my god like quite a few people like i had like a nice neat whiskey i was like god in heaven one question i had the kind of feminist angle

one it's like a people-pleasing thing that she wants to do she immediately wants to be like the pliant woman saying of course it's fine and also she writes um i thought about my mom and her mom and the long line of women i come from who are all experts at minimizing their own pain even erin must have had to minimize her own pain in order to inflict it on another person and i think that was a really interesting one to kind of do this, kind of go through this and decide to say, no, I don't forgive you. Almost as an act of feminine defiance or like, you know, looking after her younger self who didn't know that she was allowed to stand up for herself. The way that I operate often now especially through therapy and understanding things is hurt people hurt people so whenever I look back or whenever

someone's cruel to someone my immediate reaction is oh god I wonder what happened to them or like what were they going through at home often with school staff when I look back even at my own behavior whatever I actually don't really hold the child accountable I might feel upset but actually my main thought is shit I didn't actually realize that her mom and dad were divorcing at that point or like she was really struggling with her body image and so I really do think some people can be malicious but I really do think especially children and teens are cruel out of some sense of insecurity trauma that's their own I do think the message from the woman was a bit crap if the message had been better I think I would have found place to be compassionate because I think

I do really think that that is true of children that like most meanness comes from a place of someone having been mean to them yeah I completely agree and that's the thing I found confusing when trying to articulate how I felt about this because it felt it felt really incongruous for me to have this idea of not forgiving a child and not forgiving a teenager because you're right they're just sponges for their environment and sponges for like you know pain and inability to process and all that kind of stuff but I guess the only way I've come back to closer to your side is the lack of forgiveness isn't a not forgiving the child it's setting a boundary of kind of accepting that this person literally cannot accept that everything is just fine and dandy because it just isn't I think if you haven't forgiven someone it means you're holding on to it

not like you're still feeling the pain of it you're actively kind of choosing to be pained by it that's how I kind of see it so it's like something're still feeling the pain of it you're actively kind of choosing to be pained by it that's how I kind of see it so it's like something could be hurting you because it's a trigger or something comes up but you could still kind of like not harbor it so you let it go it doesn't mean it won't impact you but you're sort of like going okay I forgive you but obviously the weight of it still could be there I don't agree with that having read the piece because I feel like she's just set a line between her and that person she it feels like she's still being like I don't want to think about the situation anymore but also I want to set a boundary you're not gonna like move past that like I have this wall because of the time I just release and I once I'm at a point where it doesn't hurt me anymore and I've I've been able to extend whatever empathy towards that person I can and understand

them I can leave the forgiveness bit and if they ask me for forgiveness I don't know that I would offer it I would just I think I would just ask for it to be left I think and perhaps that's my definition of forgiveness and in the piece Katie has a beautiful definition of it um that I really agree with where she kind of writes I don't even know what forgiveness really means anyway does it have to be said out loud or written down or what is it synonymous with forgetting to forgive you forget is that it it could be more the absence of emotion than an emotion itself no perhaps it means being able to speak to that person in the future without being passive-aggressive that's what forgiveness looks like in a real sense and

I think she just says she's not there yet for me once I've forgotten once or once I've let it go once I've released it and it's not actively hurting me in the way it did I kind of consider case closed is that forgiveness I don't know you know what you're so right and actually what you just fed out I think is a really good point. And it's really useful in relationships when thinking about trust. You know, when people are like, say someone cheats, someone's boyfriend cheats, they're like, I want to get back with him.

I'm always like, that thing she said about not being resentful. It's like, if you forgive someone, it does mean you forget. It literally means that it's never going to be brought up again. And I think lots of people think they can forgive someone, but actually you don't

because it comes out in passive aggression or like resentment or spiteful feelings so I think that is the right definition it's like if you can't interact with that person without it clouding you unless you can literally be like I've actually just extracted that from my mind okay I'm on your side I've gone back and forth like 20 times this piece really did it did some things what was the Lauren to Heidi quote I forgive you and I want to forget you oh so good the hills girls will know we asked you on Instagram what you wanted to dive into on the podcast this week and hannah messaged in and shared a piece by rebecca reed and glamour titled do sports women really need

to be sexy to be taken seriously in the piece rebecca takes a look at a campaign launched by the underwear brand blue bella which features international rugby players wearing lingerie while playing rugby with the hashtag strongisbeautiful. The brand said, the idea that strength and femininity are mutually exclusive is problematic even beyond sports. We seek to demonstrate that they can go hand in hand. But Rebecca and her piece disagrees,

arguing that it's regressive in the extreme because it's an attempt to incentivize something which is already inherently good, being strong, with something not especially important, being beautiful. Do you feel like we're in like 2014 when like strong is the new sexy? It just feels like we're in a time machine. Yeah, I didn't love the slogan, but I really, I thought the picture was beautiful. And I think, I think very well intentioned and I was not particularly offended.

And I think actually an okay campaign that I was not particularly offended and I think actually an okay campaign that I quite liked actually almost I thought I hadn't seen anything quite like that before because it wasn't male gaze it was very much people looking great in lingerie who perhaps we don't see in lingerie campaigns very often was my initial thought that's interesting I saw it and I was I was quite surprised by it I think for me the hashtag was a bit like the tone wasn't correct I think the campaign was fine you know doing a collab fine the picture is beautiful it's just the strongest beautiful thing I think it's because we had our beauty episode where we're talking about you know the conflation of beautiful

being worthier than non-beautiful people it's just like why are we constantly prioritizing and constantly like you know deeming beautiful to be something that we're all striving towards it it just can be strong is strong or like strong is good strong is great the conflation of everything needing to be beautiful to be worthy or important or better than just sat badly with me if that makes any sense I completely agree with you Tara I can't believe you didn't take issue with it Beth it really pissed me off maybe it's just because I've got that history of fitness like I see loads of women's bodies in underwear and that kind of physique in underwear and I don't

think it's that interesting in terms of like boundary breaking like I wouldn't say that they're kind of like social pariahs in terms of like having a muscular physique I think what I thought was annoying is like these women are actual athletes who are like genuinely incredible and they're going oh my god but don't worry you're also pretty because you're strong it's like well I just find it really debasing like exactly what Ruchira was saying I don't know I just there was something about the tone of it that felt really patronizing to me and I thought the photos were beautiful and I think there's nothing wrong with any person of any gender striving to be beautiful or wanting to wear lingerie or whatever it was just kind of like as if it was making a point and I didn't really get what the point was like fat people will talk

about how they'll be like oh I'm fat and people get worried about that and they go oh but you're really pretty and it's like no you can be pretty and fat and you can be beautiful and strong it doesn't shouldn't be like they're strong but don't worry that can also be beautiful it just feels like oh sorry were we saying it wasn't beautiful before and also why is beautiful more important I don't know this does feel very like 2016 effeminicity there was that time you're right in the mid-2010s where everything had to have like a feminist ball-busting angle i just think i wasn't because it was an advert for this lingerie company rather than like a sports like trying to get women into sports something like that i agree about the beautiful thing i think you could have dropped that but i just

think it was a really i just think it was a very pretty campaign and i think like i really love pretty lingerie i follow a lot of these accounts and it is very it's only very slowly as the tide turning from small petite busty women wearing like very delicate things so maybe it's just new for me and I probably am the target audience of someone that would immediately go wow that's so revolutionary because I haven't seen it as you were talking I was just realizing thinking about skims marketing I feel like the reason why their marketing lands and it you know hits the nail it is just that like it's never qualifying it's just like getting all of these people in this like sexy ass lingerie and it's just like this is our marketing campaign that's it buy the lingerie that's You're right. I was looking at it.

People were responding, going like, this is so demeaning. These are like professional women. And you go, well, professional women can also look sexy. It wasn't like, finally, these athlete chicks are looking good. It just felt not for the male gaze. It felt more like, you know, it wasn't like, ditch the sports kit and keep your kit. Like, nothing that felt like really bawdy. And maybe I just like looking at the pictures that might have been it do you know what I think it is if they had put no caption I think it would have gone viral yeah yeah now you said

that I was trying to think about what's like a traditional underwear brand and like lounge for example is the big boobie thigh gap girls but then like I was looking on German Shark the other day and all of the women on there are like really hench in like which I actually even then I was like that's really cool but I think it's the qualification of it it's like we've spoken about this before but when you point something out it makes it lose all its power it's like it's like the people that bend over and like make their tummy have rolls and they're like this is okay and it's like well now you're making me feel like it's not because you pointed it out there'll be women I follow baby that have just had a baby and you don't always see like postpartum bodies and they won't say anything but like their tummy's like still a

bit rounded and I think oh that's so nice that's just her body but then if someone like kind of really makes a show of being like look at my roles when I sit down yeah I completely agree I had the same thing where on Instagram when I saw somebody talking about their postpartum body and they were talking about being really brave I I get, I totally like, I couldn't even imagine what that must be like, you know, posting that and they were an influencer and I thought that was great. Like, I wish we could get past the like,

talking about being brave for just existing and having bodies. That's the thing that I wish we could get to a bit more. Yeah, just let it be because male athletes all the time wear panty for like the David Beckhams. They wear little panties for adverts and there's no need for it to be an empowerment angle. It's just hot man in panty for like the David Beckhams they wear little panties for adverts and there's no need for it to be an empowerment angle it's just hot man in panty beautiful specimen in panty and

I think in the I don't know I'm saying panty so much I think maybe I just over corrected because I saw people critiquing it and I was and it was just people that I typically don't agree with something in me was like this is fine what are we getting up in arms about so with women I think what happens is it's like she's x but that can be beautiful he's whatever with men it's just like we just invent a whole new genre so like it wouldn't even be like dad bods are hot it's just something like a man has a thing and we call it a dad bod and that's accepted as good whereas with women it's like okay you're slightly outside of what we've imagined let's tell everyone about it and then be like but that's okay you're gonna be okay but you do look different than a normal model but you're still pretty whereas men will just rock up and they're

like oh we like that do you know what i mean yeah yeah it's like when we when we did our aging special um you mentioned emma thompson always gets the question about aging naturally and like her being really brave and it's just so it oh it's very condescending the kind of way we have to qualify everything about existing as a woman isn't it yeah like i'm on this call right now and i've got spaghetti bolognese on my top haven't brushed my hair am i brave yes one thing i would also say is just i think because i'm quite i don't know i was feeling quite protective of the women and actually they're not the focus of that I just think they've signed up for something and I think probably were quite proud of it and I thought the picture was beautiful and maybe I was just being a little bit because they're very beautiful women I want to protect them but I

don't think anyone's anti them I think everyone thinks they look great it's the brand because even for them I think it's a bit demeaning like I think I'd be a bit horrified or a bit like upset if I went to a photo shoot and they had me as the picture and then we're like but this can be beautiful too yeah I'd be like oh right because the shots are amazing like in that kind of like they are they're also just gorge like it just it just feels a bit like literally imagine going up for a job and then let them posting a picture of you and then being like this can be beautiful sorry the dog's just had a little growl at you the dog agrees i'm actually changing my mind on this it's brands trying to go viral again and trying to do do something that they're not doing they

could have just let this picture speak for themselves it's just showcasing a beautiful object which they think lingerie is on more body types which is precisely what we need it doesn't seem like male gazey which is what i hate when it's about lingerie is, on more body types, which is precisely what we need. It doesn't seem like male gaze-y, which is what I hate when it's about lingerie. And I just love them. And I think they should have just left it there. Backspace the stupid caption. And try, like, you don't need to do a moment.

You don't need to do a whole campaign. You just, gorgeous pictures. They'll sell lingerie. Complete. Agree. Are we even hashtagging anymore? I thought the hashtag was dead. I was like...

Even that as a thing. Yeah. Who's hashtagging? I don the hashtag was dead i was even that as a thing yeah who's hashtagging i don't know hashtag hashtags over that's all from us this week thank you as always so much for listening if you've enjoyed the podcast which i bet you have please tell a friend and leave us a rating on your podcast app. Five stars if you don't mind. And remember to follow us on Instagram and TikTok at everythingiscontentpod. See you next week. Bye. Bye. Everything Is Content is a Grape original podcast and we are part of the ACAST Creator Network.

This podcast was created devised and presented by us Beth McColl, Ruchira Sharma and Anoni. The producer is Faye Lawrence and the executive producer is James Norman Fyfe.