Everything Is Content - Height Filters, Sundress Fever & TikTok Weddings

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

Welcome back EICuties! This week on the podcast, we have to make an apology to an unlikely couple before we get into the long and short of the latest internet discourse- height filters on dating apps, after Tinder announced that they were joining other apps in allowing users to filter potential matches by how tall they are. Are the short men correct that this is blatant discrimination or is it just a harmless preference? Next up we're discussing a social media wedding event after influencer Jaz Smith revealed the spreadsheet and planning that allowed her to post in real time through her recent nuptials. How many TikToks is too many TikToks for the happiest day of your life? 10? 20? 100? We discuss what it means to live a life so heavily online and if anything is really sacred anymore. In partnership with Cue Podcasts.---- Ruchira's been loving Gossip Girl reruns Beth's been loving LA Women by Ella Berman Oenone's been loving Long Island Compromise by Taffy Brodesser-Akner and Mob LandTHE CUT - What It's Like to Date a HorseTHE ATLANTIC - Welcome to the Era of Branded EngagementsTHE CUT- All Hail The New York City Influencer Who Posted TikToks Throughout Her WeddingWe hope you enjoy - please do rate, review & follow the podcast! Love ya, O,R,B Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Beth. I'm Richira. And I'm Anony. And this is Everything is Content. This is a podcast where we handpick the brightest, juiciest, loudest pop-culture stories from the week to discuss in-depth. From gossip to film and TV, we love it all. We like a perfectly crisp but just gooey enough cookie you pull straight out of the oven.

This week on the podcast, we're diving into a height prejudice on dating apps and possibly the first influencer to live stream her wedding on TikTok. Do follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Everything Is Content Pod and make sure you hit follow on your podcast player app so you never miss an episode. What have you both been loving this week? I have been loving Long Island Compromise by Taffy Bredessa Ackland, who is the writer of Flieshman is in Trouble. I know I'm so late to this. I know everyone loved this book. Have you both read it? I haven't, but that's been on my list and I think I will literally go to the airport

bookshop today and buy that book because I've been meaning to read it for so long. Oh my god, me too. But I kind of, because everyone was talking about it so like, praising me, I kind of didn't want to read it, as is my way. And then I was in Waterstones the other day and I saw it, it's out in paperback and I thought, now is the time. And I can't believe I put it off so long. I'm about halfway through. It's basically, it's about, so it starts off in the 1980s about this really rich family, this guy called Carl Fletcher, who's from, yeah, a very, very wealthy family in Long Island, gets kidnapped off his driveways. That's where it starts. And then the following story spans decades and it's kind of like how his children and future generations are actually impacted by this massive event that happens. So it's a really long tale that goes to like an odyssey

of stories between all the children and it's about class dynamics, it's about Jewishness, it's about family and it's about desire. It's so, so good. It's like, I can't wait to finish it, but I can't believe I didn't read it before. So huge recommend from me on that one. I've got this on my Kindle, so I'm going to read this as well. And at some point in the future, we'll tell everyone to read it and we'll do a book club episode, which maybe people will listen to. I also have one more thing. I started watching Mobland and I went in knowing that Piers Brosnan's Irish accent was bad. Everyone has been talking about it, but it actually, I guess I'm going to have to push on through, but it was annoying me so much that it was so bad that I didn't watch enough. But obviously, Stella cast, everyone's loving it. It's another Guy Ritchie number. It's got Helen Mirren who's incredible in it and Tom Hardy. So I do need

like, who am I to say? I can't do an Irish accent, but it put me off. Are other people doing Irish accents like passable Irish accents in it? Helen Mirren is good. Yeah. But everyone said it's amazing. So I do need to watch it. Just mute him and have the subtitles. He's so hot as well. Piers Brosnan. No, to cut that. No, no, no. I was like, finally, someone admitting to... Why are you not standing up for that? Cut. Keep that in. What about you, Beth?

Mine is also a book. I know I said I was going to watch some well-earned telly, but then I got sucked in by another book. The book is LA Women by Ella Berman. It's not out yet and it's actually very annoying when people do this, but I had to share. I'm lucky I got an advance copy and I dove in not knowing what to expect. I had read Ella Berman's Before We Were Innocent, which was a Reese's book club pick, which was great. But I opened the book thinking, this will be a good book. And I'm absolutely hooked, lined, and sinkered. It's set in the 1960s and the 1970s in LA, unsurprisingly. And it's about two women who are on the scene in kind of different forms. One of them is called Lane, who is a female. She's a career

writer, generational talent, taken quite seriously, although obviously acted on by the misogyny of the day. She's living this life on the LA party scene where she's there as an observer. She's cool, but she's not as submerged. She is also really respected as a writer, but in this constant tug of war between people wanting her to be an actress, wanting to understand her femininity, wanting her to stand up for women's rights to be a woman in the sisterhood. She's like, but you don't ask men to do this. She's obviously a genius, just let her be a genius. a genius, just let her be a genius. And then yeah, so she kind of rails about against that. And then there's Gala who is party girl, LA native. She's sort of like the Hollywood LA muse. All the right parties kind of accept as part of that scene even as she's kind of

a nightmare, taking drugs, getting up to no good. She's sort of part of the furniture of that scene. And it's, yeah, it's two women who meet in kind of opposition to one another and their relationship, their friendship over time. And it's, we meet them in 1960. And then again, in 1970, we meet Lane, who is at a party where she finds out that Gala is missing and it's not, it doesn't feel like it's the kind of, oh, she's just on a bender, she'll be back. It's sort of like, she's really nowhere. And it's very good. It's, I'm steaming through it. It's got shades of like, I always do this kind of compared to other books, but it's like, it's got something of the Coco Mellas about it. It's got something of the Daisy

Jones and the Six. I only say that just to be like, if you like those books, you will absolutely love this book. I think it's going to be a smash. I've never predicted like a bestseller before, but it's the kind of thing I'm like, oh, we're all going to be talking about this. It's out in August. They're not like ages and ages, but I'm reading it and being like very smart because I've got a copy. It's just great. I really want to read. When you were talking about it, I was like, I wonder if it's a Taylor Jenkins read adjacent vibe, which makes me think, I actually think I have approved some of the new Taylor Jenkins read and I need to read that. I really wanted that. They definitely asked me if I wanted

to copy. Maybe they've not sent it. Oh, so that's it. Goldust though. You've got to, you've got to get that. I know. But now I can't remember, but I want to read that. That sounds so good. I'm, I'm again, I had that thing last night when I was reading this book, but you're really in your reading area. You know when you remember how much you love reading and then you're like, I can't believe that. What have I been doing? I've just been watching TV. You're a kid under the covers again,

like not wanting to go to bed. I know. So I need, basically I wanna, what I used to do when I was in a really good reading thing is the minute I turn the last page on my book, I would open the page of a new one. Even if I only read a page of it, it just means that you don't lose that momentum. And I wanna get that, but that's not up. Maybe I'll have to sneakily email the

publishers this week. It's got to be done. No, that is such a good tip because I find that when I'm in between books, when I finish one that I've loved and then I'm trying to start a new one, it feels like, oh, it feels so difficult to just get back into it. Yeah. Also just to note, I'm not saying that I like this book because they sent a copy. We, all of us will get sent art copies and if I don't like it, I simply won't mention it. I am only mentioning this because it is very good. Just for anyone listening going is this sneaky SponCon? It is not. What have you been having, Retira?

This is possibly scraping of the barrel from me. So no judgment here. I have been relying on my emotional support TV show the past two weeks, which I'm sure fill in the gaps can indicate where I'm at in my life at the minute. But I've been watching Gossip Girl again for possibly the 11th run of my life. Legend. Oh, I thought you were going to say hacks. No, no. Oh my God. Well, yeah, hacks too, but I thought I really can't say hacks for a third time. A fourth time between us.

Do you know what? I love rewatching Cosplay Girl, but I do it all the time and then I kind of stop around season two or something. So I never, and I'm like, I should just start the rewatch later on. Because for some, for like some purist point of view, when I rewatch a series, I always want to start from the beginning. Yeah, I've done that with Lost so many times. No, the plot is dubious at best. So it really is a come when you can, stay tall whenever you can. What point have you reentered? So I bizarrely decided series four, episode one is where I was going to start.

And I think it's because they start that and they're in Paris. Sabrina? Selena? This is where Ruchira is in her mental health. Oh, okay. So S and B, whoever they are, the Blake Lively one, Serena, start off in Paris, and they're just having the most wonderful time and just dating men and just like having a good time. So I started there and then now it's gotten to, you know, incidents of crime, forgery, cheating, all of the kind of classic, yeah, all of the classic kind of tent pole, you know, ideas of gossip

girls. So yeah, it's getting quite dramatic. But also because I know every episode like the back of my hand, it really is just at this point, oh wait, so she's going to do that. Yeah. And he's going to come in there and it feels so comforting and just so nice. It feels like cushioned Manhattan elites are hugging me from every side. It's just, it was also just a simpler time when we were first watching everything. That's what it takes you back to. Like flip phones and sliding phones and black breeze and yeah, being a teenager watching this and going, that's what adult life's like. Yeah. And all the songs are like Jason Derulo. They're like Sean Kingston. It is just like, it is so comforting. All kind of noughties, 2010s music, so good. Did either of you read the books, the gossip

girl books? I mean, I read them like inappropriately young. And they're, they're actually, I remember thinking they were great. I think they, I think they've got something more kind of a cervic about them than the TV show. Like Chuck never, is his name Chuck? Chuck never becomes like a sort of character. He's this sort of like stayed weirdo with a pet monkey that just, he never really escapes that characterization. Soo with a pet monkey that just he never really escapes that characterization. So I actually loved the books. And as you were talking, I was like, maybe I need to dig those out from the attic blow off the dust and get stuck in.

I read I read one or two of them. And I agree. I how you described it is perfect. There's something a bit kind of like sharp and a bit like, I don't know. It's not it's not like a lovely rosy book. It's quite, yeah, Serbic is the right word, I think. I can see the cover in my head in a library with the picture of like, obviously when they were republished after the series came out and they had the picture of the characters on the front, you know, when those library books have that lovely like plastic seal on them. Don't know why I quite enjoy that. I just see that, but I don't think I had to

read them. So that was my contribution. Thank you. Okay, before we get into our topics, I've got a PSA notes app apology public statement to make. Jojo Siwa, Chris Hughes, I was wrong. They have confirmed that they are dating, that it has stopped being platonic, and they are very happy. They posted a picture, I think it was Chris posted a picture on his Snapchat of them cuddled up in bed looking the picture of bliss. So I apologize to the happy couple and to everyone else. I was bang wrong on this. We were all playing in the mud with you. We all have a part to play.

I feel vindicated because I feel like I knew, but if we're going to cast some more predictions, I don't think they're going to get married. Okay. Why not? I think that this is going to be not a very long, I knew it. Prophet Anoni has given it a year. It was just the picture of his hand on her leg. I was like, that's love. Yeah. We'll do another Notes Up apology when they get engaged next week. OK Magazine covers the wedding or if they live stream the wedding.

Oh, more on that later. Looking for a guy in finance, trust fund? 6'5"? We'll stop it. Height prejudice on dating apps has been a hot topic this week after Tinder announced that they were joining other apps in allowing users to filter potential matches by how tall or short they are. A lot of blokes particularly are vocally unhappy about this, calling it discrimination, saying it's shallow and just another hoop to jump through on apps where they're already outnumbering women and getting less matches than they would want. Some other people are saying, sorry, some other men are saying if women can filter by

height, men should be able to filter by weight. The less said about that, obviously the better, although I think we probably will have to talk about it. So to be fair to Tinder, this feature will only be rolled out for premium users, e.g. people who are paying a certain amount a month. And while it allows you to choose your preferred height range, Vice reported earlier this week that profiles of people outside that range won't be totally excluded, just not favored to the same. So maybe some glimmer of good news for short kings or I don't know, maybe not. What do you both, I mean, let's just get into the inches and centimeters of it. Like have either of you set a hype preference in the past? I know Hinge used to have it. I don't know if that's still free.

Would you, do you have hype preferences in dating? It's a safe space. Let's discuss. No, I, yeah, I really don't. I've only dated two tall people in my life. And one thing I will say is once you come off the breakup, it is just like reorientating. And I know that sounds pathetic, but A, I don't think having a height preference is anything anyone should have. I think personally, I think it's stupid. Sorry. And I don't mean to be rude if you have one. I'm not like targeting you, but I just think it's so, I don't think it's necessary. I think all of the kind of, you know, cultural expectations of what dating a tall man or, you know, tiny petite woman is, is just so silly and we need to move past it and actively try and challenge it. But I will say on a just kind of physical level, you do have to

of physical level. You do have to reorient with if you go taller or shorter each time. And I will stand by that. So yes, it can be a bit disarming when you date somebody different height, but also we need to move past it. I've been personally victimized by Ruchira Sharma today. It's not necessarily preference, just historically most of my boyfriends have been six foot three, and I am five foot three. So as you say, I am used to having a foot of distance between me and them. And that is something that I've just always been used to being on tiptoe for a kiss. And so when that isn't the case, I do feel quite confused by it. Now, I don't filter by height because on hinge, you do have to pay for it, but I

do think that perhaps maybe like six years ago I may have done that and my friend Poppy who's six foot actually told me off because she was like, you have got to stop going out with such tall men in any of your five foot three and what are you leaving? For me, it's not very fair. And I was like, oh yeah, that's really shallow. But I am quite shallow when it comes to men. Anyway, on one of the dating apps, because I have redownloaded them now. I hadn't had them on my phone for a while, but I did redownload them. One of the ones that I'm on, Raya,

which is like meant to be more exclusive, whatever. It's actually not the best because it just shows you people that don't live in your country. Anyway, they don't have height on there. And I must say, it's weirdly freeing because without meaning to on Hinge, when I do look through profiles,

I do look at the height purely because it is provided. And as such, I do add it into my metrics of reasonings as to why I will say yes or no to someone. So it won't be like a deciding factor. But say I'm looking through a profile, I'm not sure, don't know, six foot one, oh, okay. That's just me speaking my truth. Whereas on Raya, because it's not there, I don't even think about how tall they are. And in fact, I once dated a man from Raya for a little bit of time. And I remember saying to him something about him being like five foot nine. And he was like, what are you talking about? I'm six foot three. And we'd been dating for a few weeks at this point. He's like, where have you got that from? I was like, I don't know. I just, cause his height hadn't been MREA. His face was

giving five foot nine. Then he stood up and I looked and I was like, oh, you are really tall. So it obviously doesn't actually mean anything to me because I cannot discern people's eyes. But that is my truth. I guess it does have a part to play. And I think some of it is sadly because I do like feeling petite. As you said, there's something I like a man feeling like a big manly man because it makes me feel small and that validates something within my problematic attitude to how I want to be perceived as a woman and a feminine person in society. So I have dated men that are much shorter and I wouldn't stop me but I definitely think I am wooed by the inches. We said it was a safe space.

It's a safe space. And we won't shame you. I totally get it. I do think in dating as well, it's hard work to date as anyone, but it is hard work to date as a woman in a lot of humiliating ways. So I don't begrudge anyone that goes, do you know what? If I'm going to shop in this particular pool, I'm going to shop the tall section. I do wonder though, six, three, six, four men, what are they doing up there looking for other girls? I don't think so. I have no, I've got no height. I mean, I've obviously listed my crushes on here. They range from very short to very tall. I don't have, I've never had a height preference. I think

I, so I, my first boyfriend was like six, six, six, seven. And then my next boyfriend was, I think it was like five, six. Like shop around a lot. It just doesn't really totally factor into me. I think the only time actually I have filtered by height is when I was trying to avoid a particular person on the dating app. So I was like, right, I'll just put six, three and under or something because I was like, then I definitely won't see him. I've done it also with age. I was avoiding a particular 34 year old man. So I was like, I'll just set my- I've done that as well. So I've only done it in sneaky calculated ways for my own peace of mind. I think that's fine.

Generally, that's particularly shallow reasons. I just think obsession with height is silly only because I don't think it's like, well, because women are shallow and this is evidence of that. I just think if you're setting yourself a height filter, you are excluding a lot of people for a reason which is looks-based. And it's like, actually, one, we're all the same height lying down. And two, I think you're missing out on potentially meeting someone who is excellent, but just can go on all the same roller coasters as you. I just think you do maybe, it just shoots you in the foot. And it's not, I don't shame people that do it, but I do think broaden it up and you might actually fall head over heels for someone that is a bit shorter. It could happen.

But I think this is the app problem because in real life, I would be attracted to so many more people and so many less in equal measure than I am on the apps. But it's because you're looking at this 2D image of this person and this specific set of pictures they've chosen and I'm really, weirdly picky about likes. I don't know why I should be more relaxed about it, but I really got stressed about whether or not I'm going to like someone. So I do take in like every single tiny morsel of information that I can get in order to make a decision that I'm going to click like, which literally means nothing. You're just going to end up in a pile of likes in that like section. Whereas in real life, I am attracted to people of like across such a broad spectrum in a

way that I'm like less picky, but I guess more picky because you're going off a vibe or like an attractionness. I do think it is an app problem because as I said, in real life, pretty much everyone is taller than me. I don't know how tall, I couldn't tell you how tall anyone is. So yeah, it's an app based problem. How tall do you think we are? Because I think we're about six foot. No, I think we're five seven and I think I didn't think you were five three and only I thought you were maybe my height, just five five. I'm five four and a half, the half counts. You got tall energy. Oh, I'll take that. I didn't know you were shorter than me and Oni. Yeah, I knew you were a bit taller

than me and then I feel like that's a bit taller than you. Is that right? I mean, actually, I think that's actually correct. So I think you're actually bang on. But in my head, I was like, yeah, Ritera is definitely at least three inches taller than I am. Well, I think that's actually correct. So I think you're actually bang on. But in my head, I was like, yeah, which is definitely at least three inches taller than I am. Well, I thought you had tall energy. And I remember the first time we met in person, I was literally shocked like draw on the floor because I was like, I feel like she must be like a modeler, like five, nine, five, eight or something. Different people do. And in person, they do like there's definitely tall guys that are

short guys. That's what this guy that I dated was a really tall guy. He a short guy like I cannot explain it he did not look that tall until I found that he honestly wanted to get a tape measure out but also I have to say I think the height thing I have one of my previous partners was just under six foot and it was something he would like talk about and I also went on a couple of dates this guy who was five eleven who brought up being five eleven so often to the point where I was like you must be five 5'4", because why are we talking about this so much? And again, I can't tell. And he was like, oh, there's such a thing about guys who are like 5'11". And he honestly did bring it up so much that I was starting to think that he was 5'8".

But so I think that that's also played into, there is an insecurity for men, because, so I think it's like goes both ways. I think we both feed men and women feed into this kind of, I don't think that my dad's a short king. Don't know how tall he is, not tall at all, maybe five, six, five, seven. No one was talking about that in his day. Yeah, I remember talking to him at party and I was wearing heels. I think we're about the same height. So yeah, I don't think that was something that came into my mom's consciousness. Is this a new thing? He's bagged a hottie. You do your mother. So obviously, it really does not. And there's a thing, I think it was the comedian Rob Delaney said this once, maybe it was on a show or panel

show. I can't remember. It might've been on Catastrophe. He was kind of like, certain men think, okay, I'm bald, I'm not going to get anyone. But it's about attitude. If you are like, yeah, I'm a bald fucking guy. I'm fucking bald and I fuck. Women will go, yeah, I really want to fuck that guy and they will do it. There's something about that and I'm not disparaging, like, we all have our insecurities, but I think there's something about attitude, similar with height. As long as you're not kind of like cagey or bitter about it, it can really be absolutely fine. Maybe not on the apps, but that is an app issue. But in person, ask someone out, I guarantee they probably aren't appraising how tall you are and going, absolutely not.

Well, this is the problem. And I think that's why your thesis is so right. And only apps completely divorce all the things about hotness and attract attractiveness that are so important. So when we talk about like a Walton Goggins, or I was listening to celebrity member book club, and they were talking about Love Island, obviously taking away all the racial dynamics. Why is it that all of these equally hot people, some of them are seen as hotter and some of them are seen as not?

And I think a lot of it is vibes. So when you think of Megan Barton Hansen just walking in and being like, I'm the shit, everyone lost their shit over it. And it is so important, the vibes and the kind of like sexual energy that you bring to something. And I honestly think that has so much to play when you just walk in a room and the impact you have.

Energy is so important in my opinion. So I think it comes back to the same thing that we do really look for the most like, you know, mundane, banal aspects of a person through apps because that's all we have to go off. My final statement will be all I want to do is just reiterate, we fancy the weirdest people. There are so many people that you can't put your finger on in person while you fancy and it is all vibes. Totally. Also, famously, most male actors strangely are not that tall and if you think about like everyone's crushes it's always on these like celebrities. I mean Andrew Scott's

not tall, I don't think Paul Mascar's tall. Tom Hardy's not tall. Tom Hardy, Jason Statham, like none of these men are actually that tall and they are the stuff of moist dreams for many women. Sexual legends. Like there's not, so it's just, I think it is the metric. I actually matched with a guy once, I remember as well, who he was five foot eight and one of his prompts

was like my greatest strength and then he put his height. And I thought that was so funny that that made me like, because it is, I have to say, sometimes the thing about, with men, it's like such a thing that you actually can't, like it gives, confidence is such a big thing and insecurity and it's, I can be really insecure and I actually had to like teach myself not to be like this when I was younger because I then have dated people that are very insecure and it's actually quite

frustrating when someone's constantly down on themselves because you're like, what can I do to make you feel better? Even though that was something that I'd done, I'd be like, oh, I feel like this. And you think it's endearing and it's actually just quite frustrating because you can tell someone they're gorgeous as much as you like and if they don't believe you, it just ends up being a drain. So I do think that this height thing has gotten a bit out of control and no one cares about it as much as we think we do.

But I do think it's maybe like a status symbol, even like between men. Again, how many boyfriends have I had? But I remember being with an ex at uni who bumped into this other guy that I'd been dating and there was a conversation around how one of them was like way taller. Like it is a big thing that happens in men's minds, which I think makes it bigger in women's minds. I don't think it's just us doing this to them. I think it's like an ego sparring thing between

men too, which like, I actually think maybe men care about it more than women, which is the same on the other side where women will have these things that we think men are really pressed about and actually they're like, honestly do not care. Yeah, they just want you to wear a sundress and sort of like look at them. Yeah, I think men definitely egg one another on. I think someone made this point on Twitter that it's not about wanting to date a tall man. It's about sometimes just wanting to date a man who's not really hung up on height, won't bring it up, isn't worried about it. Because there can be something in that. I remember going on a date with a guy who I think was probably, if I'm 5'5", he was probably my height, 5'5", 5'6", and he just did not stop talking about it. He was like, people don't go out with you and women are

really shallow. And I went, well, one, I'm on this date with you. So obviously like, hello, you've, you've got a, you've got a date with a stone called Fox. And two, I was like, well, I do think actually it might be your personality at this point, because you're really angry at women and you've really localised this, just by the fact that we're on a date right now. You're obviously getting dates, you don't need a million matches, you kind of just need to get a few matches, gone some dates. So I just found it a really, just really

sort of turned me off unsurprisingly, whereas yeah, I go out with men that height all the time, I'll go out with bald guys and they're just not fast. And you go, oh, I'm not thinking about this because you're not thinking about this. It's very obvious when it is. And I think yeah, men egg each other on with both baldness and height into thinking you'll never get loved because of this. And then they get angry at us. And it's not often us. Can I just say, I don't really get the, I think bald men are really handsome. And if anything, I'd much rather men who are, you know, in that department, it's starting to wane, just shaving it all off. I think it looks so much better. I think most men look

great with really short hair, shaved off. And I feel like don't try and cling to it. The baldness has never really been a thing for me. I agree. It's like, and that's their beauty standards. I get it, but it's like, it's so annoying for them to be talking to us and being like, God, isn't it horrible to be judged by how you look? And you're like, well, welcome, comrade, to the conversation that we have been having for years and years.

But if you're in, if this is actually something that you care about, we need you to join the fight and actually recognize this is a problem worldwide. Don't be a hypocrite. And they are hypocritical then to go, well, we should have a weight filter then. It's just so egregiously stupid. And it's obviously, it is right wing incel guys having this conversation. But I'm like, what a ridiculous thing. Pretty much you can already filter by body type anyway. And also like they would all be filtering like, they don't know what weight looks like on a woman. They'd be like, a hundred pounds. Oh, there's no, like there's nobody on here.

Yeah. Like the way that weight looks different. And I know that they're just saying it to be nasty and snarky, but I was like, just give it up. Like the whole conversation has just been a cesspit. But also it's such a lie that men don't look at height either. Because again, like I said, I've got tall friends who very much men will feel intimidated by women's heights. And actually interestingly, it's often like shorter men will end up with taller women, maybe because they're both on the end of the spectrum that gets kind of marginalized when it comes to height. So the whole like using weight as the thing that they would use as a comparison isn't true because they are looking at our height as well. And the weight thing again, yeah, you're

so right. I'm short, but I've always been like heavy-ish. I don't mean heavy, but I just weigh a lot. I just think I weigh more than some people would weigh at my height. You've got muscles as well. Because that's just so weight actually is such, it was such again, something I had to learn going back to our bonus up about, you know, metrics and stuff. Everyone's bones are different densities. Everyone's got different things going on. I quickly want to talk about the sundress, quite sidetracked. First of all, I don't have enough and I read quite an endearing, slightly misogynistic, but it did inspire me to want

to get on Vintage and get some more sundresses from a man who was just like, oh my God, it's sundress season. Like this is what I live my life for. And then it was all men just making comments about why they love women in sundresses. And yes, it obviously was, but it was kind of sweet in a way. They were like, I just love the way that they walk and the way that they're like, barbless juggle under the dress. I don't know. I quite enjoyed it. And I was like, I mean, we all do, but. Yeah. What is it about a sundress? It's just something. And I don't, I really don't have enough. It's that specific sort of like slightly floating over the bottom, a little shorter. It's a beautiful time to be alive.

It's weird. I don't really, this really does make me feel like there's a male gaze and a queer female gaze because I'm just like, a sundress is so just not the thing that would be like, I don't know, that's my peak season. I feel like, I don't know, corsets and like all of that kind of stuff, like going out stuff, clubbing, like, you know, mad makeup. I feel like that's the thing where I'm like, women are so hot. But a sundress is so just like, it's just like every day mundane in my mind and my, I guess my eye. It's very, it's quite sweet. I think that they do, but as long as I don't dig into it too much, then it becomes, ugh. But I'm kind of like, they're just like, oh, I'm really excited by this. And I think maybe

they got excited. They sort of thought they'd learned what a sundress is, even though I'm not convinced they all know what they're talking about. But they are. Yeah, they're just by that bit of fabric and what might be underneath it, they're beside themselves. They're kind of like sort of dog brain sometimes. They're like, you know, barking at the postman, but it's a lady. You know what they're not talking about though? They're not talking about the gany or the damson madder like milk made ones. They're talking about like tits out, like the tiny strappy like mini dress ones. They're so obviously talking about a specific dress. Well, I think it could even be a cap sleeve number because they actually did start replying.

Someone asked, I think it was a woman like, what do you mean by this? And they're like, usually it's a floral print and it's like gathered at the tummy. And then it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's cause it's that kind of fabric that clings as if it's a bit of a windy day, I guess there could be a gust. You might catch a bit of cheek and they then normally like draws to around the boob. I did kind of, and there is something kind of innocently sweet, almost like quite adolescent fast crush. And I was thinking it made me think back to times I've worn a sundress and yes they have been fruitful times. And so I was like, I'm going to get some, I'm going to go on vintage. I don't really love a floral print dress. So it'd probably be more like a, of a leper print, which unfortunately I do think men hate, but I obviously like pretty

much 24 seven wearing animal print. Yeah. I think you'll find, you'll find the right, um, zoophile. Wait, is that? No, I don't think I mean that. Yeah, maybe not that one. I think zoophile is what it sounds like. So is it? You don't want to find one of them. I think it is. I read recently to go even further off piece, someone reposted a piece from the cut from 2012 about a practicing zoophile who was in a relationship with a horse. And I went, well, a lot of ways to be a person. So this is probably the greatest departure we've ever made from our original

conversational starting point. But that's the magic of EIC. I mean, what are we all, if not just animals dressed up in clothes? I'm just a pig in a sundress. So before I dive into this topic, I've got a quick fire question for both of you. Would you record TikToks on your wedding day? No, I can't even record them at the best of times. So no. Fair. Yeah, it's a no for me. I would want a phone ban at my wedding, I think. Oh, that's interesting. Okay. So with that in mind, I'm sure you both have seen Jazz

Smith's wedding. She's known as just Jazzy, I don't know. And she has now 510,000 followers on TikTok. She got married last week and she had the wedding in the same place as Taylor Swift's Blank Space music video where that was filmed. I just love that detail so I had to include it. The event, also full of other influencers, was all captured on TikTok. Jazz now has 55 videos under her wedding weekend playlist and one of them with a million views literally catches up with her just as her fresh new husband and her have come back from their vows. Not only did she TikTok throughout the wedding, so did her guests, meaning the amount of content is actually crazy. There is so much, it's like a royal wedding. Her made of honours speech is also

filmed and comes up from her account and it's shot from the sides so it looks so professional. It's almost like this ecosystem of content around this wedding. It's not just even from her. So many of the guests were kind of loki, you know, live reporting from the event. It was so fascinating. So I guess everyone's like, how did she get all of this content made? She unsurprisingly made a video explaining this and she shared that she made a spreadsheet with 40 video ideas and briefs before the wedding and she shared that she made a spreadsheet with 40 video ideas and briefs before the wedding, and she got her assistant to work through them from her getting ready to the ceremony, reception and after party. She claims it maybe took about 60 seconds for each video. She said in this TikTok about how it all came together, quote, I genuinely felt like I needed

to do this because I have the lifestyle that I have. I had the wedding that I had because of the fact that this is my job and you guys care. Obviously I would never let anybody actually come to the wedding, that's just like too far, but it just makes sense for you guys to virtually be there because you genuinely did help pay for it. Also, the day after the wedding, the new bride jumped on a podcast, her podcast, Delusional Diaries, to give fans even more of a debrief. And that's on Patreon if you do want to listen. I'm just, I'm so fascinated by all of this. And I just have to know what your initial thoughts, just hearing the details of how this all came together.

So it's so against where I'm getting to in my life, which is a further and further resistance to putting too much myself online and actually trying to make a bigger separation because I do think that it's eroding our brains. But I do also recognize that we are a generation that had the before and we're living in the after where she is younger than us and so has been living in the after for longer. And I actually thought, do you know what? She's kind of right. And I do like it when content creators own up to the fact that, you know, people support for them and their content, like myself included, can fund their livelihoods. And so there is something quite sweet and honest and truthful and actually quite kind of being

like, do you know what? I know you're going to want to be there. And she says, I couldn't invite you all so I might as well live stream it. So on the one hand, I think her audience is going to really appreciate this. It's not my ideal wedding day. As I said, I even find it quite upsetting when you're at a wedding and the ceremony is happening and everyone's holding up their phones and you're trying to see the bride and you're watching her through a screen like you're at a concert. And I think that more and more people are saying, you know, can we not have your phones out in the wedding? We don't know if you want to take pictures, but like we have got photographers here who are going

to capture it. There's something really exciting about being sent a drop box five weeks after a wedding with all the pictures. And I do understand people wanting like candid imagery from their weddings. Like my sister, I took so many pictures of her and she actually does like, I profile pictures to the photographers and I made her loads of reels and stuff and she loved it. But it's just, it's a totally separate world that is part of this content machine, which is not something I subscribe to. But I guess if that's how they live their lives through this camera lens, then I understand it. It kind of makes me feel sad, but I think her approach to it was actually weirdly quite

sweet. So I remember like I read that bit and I sort of went, oh yeah, she talks directly to the thing that often creators don't, they act like they're sort of self-made in the way that they're like just bona fide celebrities. But actually it is, it's that ecosystem where you do exist and it's the attention of the watchers, the audience, it's their engagement and sometimes it's their money with affiliate links, et cetera, that does, it pays for it. So I thought I did like that because actually that relationship can sour. Like we've seen it big creators put a foot wrong, become unrelatable, maybe have a low level scandal and get internet cancelled and it can go away. So I think it's a it's savvy to just say, Hey, I

remembered you know, this is because of you guys here is something quite generous. I mean, obviously, also, there was a huge amount of money to be had in posting, however many TikToks and Reels. I can imagine between the bride and groom and the attendees, a lot of whom are also in, I think, Remy Bader was there with three plus million followers. A lot of people were in that range of 500 followers. I'm 500,000 followers. I've got to stick the landing on that one. I can imagine the dollar amount of brand sponsorship was eye-watering. So it's both. I mean, she didn't lie. She was tagging the brand partners, but I think it's that it's very wise to keep audience onside and just offer them something, even if at the same time that offering is making you five figures or whatever. So I had that, I was not skeptical, but I was like, okay, this is a savvy career move as much as it is a thank you to the fans. But yeah, I also found it absolutely,

not dystopian, less dystopian than I thought when I found out how little time it really took her, but I found it, it would alter my experience of the whole day to be kind of TikTok ready. I just know that much about myself. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? I think my first feeling when I read all about this and saw what the videos look like, it just, I guess it makes me feel like the moment is being captured rather than lived in. And that's something that we've spoken about before, I feel like with the fact that, you know, at gigs, people are grabbing their phones and just recording.

There's almost this sense of a loss of living in the moment, experiential, memory making. And I mean, she could completely argue against it and say that, you know, it took such little time for her. It was all pre-planned. She was living in the moment. This took very little time away. But I know myself and that's the only perspective I can really come in with, which is I just I can't, you know, divorce taking content and then just jumping back into the moment. For me, it really does take over because I'm crap. I'm crap with my phone. I'm crap with zooming in on pictures. Every picture I had from the last gig I went to is blurry as fuck. It's such bad stuff. I need to delete it all. Completely unusable, so I couldn't share it online. For me, it would divorce me away from the moment. Also, is this really mean of me? I wonder how authentic that statement is because coming in with my cynical hat on,

it's such a savvy statement because it really makes you feel like, oh, she's doing this for us. And really a lot of money will be coming in through this and it looked like a super expensive, beautiful, luxurious wedding. Part of me wonders, is it not just also good content and also, you know, the brand deals coming in, as you say, Beth, are great. Is it really all about the fans? The statement is perfectly coiffed and, you know, sentimental and gorgeous. If I read that, I would feel so happy and so seen. But what's missing is the context of everything you just said, Beth. But I wonder how much her brain has adjusted to TikTok in her whole life, because I agree, there's no in hell that I could, even at my own birthday,

I always wanna make sure I get a nice picture when I have like an event or something. So what I'll do is I'll say, girls, can we do five minutes? Can someone come to the loo with me, take a picture, and then I can put my phone away for the rest of the evening and not stress, because I know I've got that picture. If I spill gravy down myself, it doesn't matter,

we've got the pics, and you can like finally relax. Yeah, and, but obviously on your wedding day, you're gonna be looking picture perfect. So maybe it is easier to be capturing content. And maybe just because she does it so much, she actually doesn't see a separation between posting and not posting. And maybe she is so involved with her content

that she truly believes, you know, that her fans would wanna see this. I see it from both sides. I definitely think the cynical angle is true, but I just wonder how much of these digital natives who are TikTokers through and through actually do live their life so much through the lens that they don't even know what it is to not feel like you constantly have to be hyper surveilling yourself. I can't explain to you the joy I feel when I know that I don't have to film a bit of content and I can actually just walk

around looking like a slug because it is a lot of pressure and stress to be doing that. I don't think it's a wedding day, in my opinion. It is content now. A wedding to me, and maybe this is like a romanticized old fashioned idea, but it's like, what is so exciting about those events is like the unbridled joy, the speeches, the reaction, the person that cries that you aren't expecting to cry, the friends that hook up at the end. I don't know, a wedding can be such a beautiful thing and obviously a lot of it is centered around how gorgeous the bride looks. There's a lot of vanity in a wedding, but there is also just a lot of flowing alcohol drinks and fun and filming it all for content and everyone coming there,

filming it as content and seeing it as content, I think does change. I mean, I love that I've not mentioned that our wedding day is obviously about celebrating the love of a couple coming together. That is obviously the central thing. But yeah, I don't know. I don't think it is. I think it makes it not a wedding, but I think that that is maybe in her mind, that idea is deconstructed so much anyway. I don't know. Yeah. One thing I really want to ask you both as well is do you think with her doing this, this slowly shifts the Overton window of expectation that fans will have for influencers? Because I mean, I remember, you know, the first few Christmas unboxings like, like literally 15 years ago.

And then from that point onwards, it felt like almost every YouTuber freaked out and thought that they had to start doing that. And it became a trend. Even with wedding day videos, once the first few big influencers started doing that or YouTubers, it started to become a trend. Do you think this is putting or like going to move that dial slightly or do you think people will just see this as an isolated thing and just think good for her? Oh, I think we've fully arrived in the live streamed wedding era. And I kind of tailored around sort of predicted this. I don't even remember that piece that she wrote for The Atlantic, probably about six years ago about the

influence couple who he had made basically a marketing deck for the proposal. I mean, she was a fashion influencer. I don't think she was, she probably had about 100 plus thousand followers and she was on this mad scavenger hunt, cross continental. It was a real spectacle and people were following along and she was like, what's happening? Oh my God, I don't know. And then culminated in their engagement. And then a few weeks later, a marketing deck started floating around that had been sent out. Ostensibly by him, planning the, saying we are looking for brand partnerships, this is a huge moment in her life, but also like a great opportunity for you to jump on board and be a part of something which will be really, hopefully, widely seen.

And then the question started and the suspicion that actually she had had a hand in it. And she had had, she'd basically branded her own engagement and then acted that she was surprised. And so I think we've been there for a while. I mean, you'll see people now with pregnancy announcements sponsored by Clear Blue, people using in birth or shortly after birth sponsored items or gifted items. I think we've reached that point because influencing is this career and actually the more you give, the more you can receive. I am a sometimes travel writer, but I go and I will write a piece and then I will go on these press strips with content creators

and influencers. It's really interesting how differently they operate. I remember once someone asked me about Golden Hour when the sun was going to set and I was just like, oh yeah, things aren't about this time. I got it wrong and she almost missed Golden Hour, which was prime post. She wasn't being vain. She like well I got to deliver a certain amount of content but anyway I realized and corrected it and she got the shots but I was like oh shit you are not just asking you are planning in real time the pictures you're going to take the content you've got to deliver it's it whether it takes you out of the moment I guess is an individual thing but it's certainly it's your your mind is going and so yeah I. I just probably didn't

feel like a wedding that other people have had before because it's ticked off brain. That's the thing. I don't think you have the moment anymore. And I've explained this before and I've really only managed like disengagement where everything is content, every opportunity, every holiday. In fact, holidays were kind of the worst because you always got your best content on holiday. So I'd go on holiday to have a holiday and spend the whole holiday thinking about taking content, which is like the complete opposite of suppose. It's not obviously a difficult job. I'm not saving lives, but it would mean that you were not actually doing the thing that you're supposed to do on holiday, which is kind of remove yourself from your working day and engage in swimming in the sea, eating ice cream and reading a book.

And so the other thing that's making me think of is, you know these videos now where women will be like, is he gonna propose? And they go on holidays and trips and they do this thing where they turn their hand around and like, does it or does it not have the ring on? And then usually at the end of the video, it will have the ring on. And I find these videos really quite disturbing

because again, it's like, I don't know. There's something about that level of sort of like preparation, knowing this is going to be posted at some point, knowing that you're going to, I just find it quite weird when people are really anticipating a proposal anyway, maybe that's a really idealized thing. I've said that to a few friends and like very few people are actually genuinely like surprised when you got proposed to it. It's usually at a point in the relationship when you maybe do think, oh, we're going to call more this weekend. Maybe I'll get my nails done just in case kind of thing.

But yeah, I think that I wouldn't be surprised that you said the pregnancy videos is now like a must. You can't just be like, oh, I'm having a baby. It's a slow-mo shot with your partner's hands on your tummy, the scan photos. Molly Mays obviously was quite famous. And then since then, it's like a knitted bodycon dress. It's every, it's just, it becomes almost like, not even then since then it's like a knitted bodycon dress.

It becomes almost like not even like a right passage, like a duty. You have to do it. It's how you announce it. I've even thought this. I am now at this age where I'm like, I'm probably never going to get engaged because when is that going to happen? But everyone's picture with the hand, you know, and it's a selfie. I'm like, how else can you post this actually? I find it really funny when people actually manage to do something different or everyone's FaceTiming their friends, the reaction. It's like there is no new ideas anymore. But also we're so primed for this, we kind of expect it. It does surprise me when someone pops up being like, I've had a baby and they haven't told us they were pregnant. It's, I do think it's dystopian. Yeah. Well, you're trading privacy for content. And I think as people recognize, okay, at the top of this career, you can no longer

get away with being like, oh, they're just sort of lazy, vapid people. No, she had a spreadsheet to prove. At the top of this career, it is highly organized. It is highly, I think quite invasive, but obviously she doesn't feel that way. But it's very meticulous. It is, and if you want to do, I mean, in other fields, we wouldn't go, okay, oh my God, there's that man, he's a marathon runner and he's training on his holiday. He's doing, he's not drinking, he's doing this. Like to be top of a lot of fields does require an immense sacrifice and immense pressure almost on personal life. You make, you trade that for your ambition and to realise your ambition. I just think because obviously it's influencing,

which people do have some kind unsavory ideas about, people are more likely to be like, God, this is shocking, this is awful. But ultimately, an ambitious person, it's a content opportunity. You have to be wired a certain way to be like, okay, it's not the end of the world if my wedding day is sort of branded

or it sort of feels like a work event, that is what I'm exchanging it for. And it did I mean, Richard, you said it had the feel of like a royal wedding. I think they say this in the piece as well. And it does because it's live streamed whereas traditional celebrity weddings either they're private, or you'll get like an okay shoot a few weeks later. Whereas this you could tune into it like a kind of sports day and people were saying they were like, maybe like 200 plus videos of

this on the day, you're getting different POVs, you're getting the guests arriving, you're getting the wedding dress reveal. It's kind of an immersive spectator sport. It's really like such an unusual thing that we are now totally normal. Totally. And I mean, she will have gained so many followers from this. I remember reading the cut article and the cut article was from the 28th of May and it said that she had 495,000 followers. As I said, on the top of this segment, she now has 510,000. I'm sure that's been climbing before and it will climb after. So it's almost like creating the law around how influential you are as well. She's created a narrative through this huge excess of content, through the fact that people around her are

shooting, the fact that so many high profile people were there, the amount of content she's given. It makes it feel like, oh, well, I should really follow this person. This person is obviously a huge deal for this all to be happening. Oh yeah. I'd never heard of her, obviously a huge deal for this all to be happening. Oh yeah, I'd never heard of her, but that's true for a lot of content creators. You'll go on and someone's got like 21 million followers and you go, I've never seen this person before in my life.

And yeah, it is absolutely, self-aggrandizing is the wrong word, but it's really savvy. It's kind of being like, I'm having essentially a royal wedding. You don't know me, but you're gonna know me. And it's so smart in a way that like, yeah, it's been covered in traditional press. I mean, it's kind of a masterclass.

But I do think it's also a great, like how people consume content, because I do think there are people that are going the other way that don't actually want to overconsume creators that don't want to do this. I do love knowing there's going to be a wedding of someone that I follow. And I'm excited to see the pictures whenever they become available. And I do like seeing people's wedding pictures, but I'm not expecting them immediately. And I think either it's generational or it's how you consume content. I think there will be a cohort of people that do this, but I think there are also lots of people that are going the other way saying, I actually really don't want you guys to know everything about my life. People that aren't showing their relationships

at all, that turns out like they have husbands and no one really knows. So I think that as long as she's happy doing it, I think that it's just this thing which I really can't quite narrativise or explain properly, but it sits quite heavily with me, which is just there are people who are fully living their lives online, whether that's just you consuming things online or letting things play out online. And it goes back to the conversation we had about like the Mary Oliver March last week. It is just a new way of living. It's not even if it's right or wrong. I genuinely believe her when she says it doesn't take her out of the day because she is always in her phone and always like in content creation mode. I genuinely think that

people's brains have been rewired, that an experience is not an experience if it hasn't been filmed, picked so it didn't happen, but like to the nth degree, like the final boss of picks or it didn't happen. And I think that you can choose to opt in or opt out. I.e. I don't have TikTok on my phone and I download it like intermittently every now and then, but I still don't really understand it. I don't have an algorithm on that. So that is like a one little slice of freedom I've given myself just from opting out. Not great for my career. I'm constantly being told to post TikToks,

but I, you know, at some point you've got to choose how far you're willing to take it. And I do believe some people can find joy in this, but it's not for me. Thank you so much for listening this week. Also have you listened to our latest Everything In Conversation episode? This week we dived into Justin Bieber's strange response to his wife Hailey Bieber's Vogue cover.

If you've enjoyed the podcast, please please do leave us a rating or review on our podcast Player app. It helps others to find the podcast and helps us to keep making it. Please also give us a follow on Instagram and TikTok at EverythingisContentPod. See you next week. Bye. Bye.