Everything Is Content - Love Potions, Sirens & Jojo Siwa

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

Come hither into our watery lair... we three witchy mermaids want to drag you into our content cave... hehe. Happy Friday.This week on the podcast, at 12:51, we travel to the fictional island of Port Haven, where Julianne Moore swans around in floaty Grecian gowns, rehabilitates birds of prey, and presides over her billionaire husband's palatial home. Meghann Fahy plays Devon, who starts the series coming out of jail and caring for her dad who has dementia. She reaches out in desperation to her younger sister Simone, played by Milly Alcock, and gets no reply. But she does get a fruit basket. She furiously travels down to confront Simone and unexpectedly breaks into her new world, where her younger sister is the personal assistant, really the emotional support assistant to Michaela, the aforementioned ultra-rich wife. Is this just another attempt to ride the coattails of White Lotus' success? Or something different?Next up, at 34.52 we turn to one of the most unexpected rumoured romances of… potentially the century? That's right, it's Jojo Siwa + Chris Hughes. The Dance Moms & Love Island alumni have been setting tongues wagging since they appeared together on celebrity big brother. The duo are maybe the perfect product from the surveillance reality show... these two would likely have never met without it. Is it a showmance? is it a friendship? is it an us problem that we even care at all?Ruchira's been loving The Real Housewives of AtlantaBeth's been loving The First Bad Man, Miranda JulyOenone's been loving The Four Seasons, A Deadly American Marriage, The Last Of UsSirensLucy Mangan's Siren reviewKath Ebbs PodcastWhat’s Going On With JoJo Siwa and Chris Hughes? - VultureWe hope you enjoy - please do rate, review & follow the podcast! Love ya, O,R,B Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Beth. I'm Rachira. And I'm Anoni. And this is Everything is Content, the podcast where we select the best pop culture stories from the week and analyse them in depth. From must-see series you just have to stream, to books that will tear you away from doom scrolling, to celeb stories that will have you eye rolling, we've got you covered. We're the omniscient narrator giving you a bird's eye view breakdown of all the main

characters, fictional and real, in the content cosmos. This week on the podcast, we're diving into Netflix's newest dark comedy, Sirens, starring Megan Fahey, Julianne Moore and Kevin Bacon, before we turn to one of the most unexpected rumoured romances of potentially the century. Follow us on Instagram at EverythingIsContentPod and please do make sure to hit follow on your podcast player app so you never miss an episode. Before we get into today's topics, let me ask you both, what have you been loving this week?

I'm going to go back to Four Seasons because I just want to cycle back and say I've now finished it. I don't know if you all finished it and oh my God, is it good. Yeah, also finished it. What a wallop. Oh, so good. Just because I know we recommended that and sometimes people never know if we're just saying things and not actually consuming them. I loved it. So that was that. Then my second thing is I feel really weird saying I'm loving this because it wasn't a love, but it's a new documentary on Netflix called A Deadly American Marriage. And I watched it when I was at my friend's house on the weekend. And it's about a murder that happens. And it's quite a twisty tiny misdirection. It was a really interesting documentary to watch because

every single person involved in the crime is interviewed. So you can't work out like if people got prosecuted or not. It's very trippy. So I haven't watched documentary like that in ages. I don't know how I feel about true crime, but I watched it with my friend and we were completely absorbed by it. So I'd recommend that. And my last thing is I stopped watching The Last of Us after episode two, no spoilers, but I think if you're into that universe, you might know what happened. And I just saw, I'm checking out now. This is of no interest to me. But then I started watching it again and it is so good. There's a really beautiful sapphic love story. I do just love end of the world stuff. So

I'm now tuned back into The Last of Us. And so that's, that's my three TV recommendations for those of you who would like to sit in front of a screen and slob out. That is a bumper pack. Very good. On The Last of Us, because my, I watched the first series with a friend and she had played the video game. And so I think without meaning to, I found out a lot of stuff that happens in the narrative. And I think a lot of people in the second series were like, excuse me about something that happens. But I've not even watched the series yet and I will, but I know some quite big, quite big

key moments I think will make it easier for me not to check out in horror. I was going to say a similar thing. I have never watched a single episode of this show, but tell me why I know exactly all the twists and turns that come purely based on the outrage on X.com. No, I was horrified. I cried. And then I was like, well, I was actually cross that I'd invested so much of my, because I've been waiting. I loved the last of our series one so much. Like I just thought it was the best TV I've ever watched. And in fact, I do think it is better than season two, but season two does take it in a new direction.

But it's still worth watching. I felt a bit juvenile for being like throwing my toys out the front, being like, I give up and I can't believe I ever wasted any time on you. It happens to the best of us. We're allowed to go and come back. That is completely fine. Gross. I had a stomach drop moment when you asked what I'm going to recommend this week because

I forgot and then re-remembered what my thing was, which is Hacks season four again. And also, because I know I've said that before, The Real Housewives of Atlanta. I am up to date on the most recent series. It's my first ever Atlanta series. And boy, does it not disappoint. All the women are fantastic.

The series is just like, oh, chef's kiss. Who were some of the kind of cast from that? Because I don't watch it, but I do get filters into my consciousness. I wonder if I recognize any of them. Portia Williams, Drama Central, incredible cast member. Is this the one that you used to have at NeNe in it? You actually know you didn't watch this. This is your first series, so ignore me. But obsessed with her. No, exactly. So she's not in it anymore. So this is a good entry point for anyone who has observed that Atlanta is known to be one of the best series

out there in the Bravoverse, but they just feel like the old series are too old because I'm really struggling to get into the old aesthetics of the Bravoverse. So I just jumped in headfirst into this series and now I feel more able to go back. So join me. I'm now in Atlanta Stan and I need more friends with me. So I really want to get back into the Real Housewives universe. I only really ever watched Beverly Hills, but I know it's a great way to spend your time. But they have announced they're doing Real Housewives of London and on Miss Me, Makita Oliver and Lily Allen's podcast, they speculated that Poppy Delevingne was going to be one of the housewives. And that would have me watching straight away.

However, today, 27th of May, 2025, they have revealed that the official housewives are Karen Lodrick-Peace, Nessie Welch Singer, Juliet Mayhew, Panthea Parker, Juliet Angus and Amanda Cronin. And I hate to tell you, but I do not know who any of those women are. I think that's part of the point though, isn't it? Because I think even I follow Bethany Frankel on TikTok, which is so chaotic. And she talks quite candidly about the first series of Real Housewives of New York, which she was on and how really the actual upper echelon, the Real Housewives of New York City were like, what trash, we'd never be on that.

So it is, I think there is an element of, you make your name in the show and you have, you have to be someone that's willing to go on reality TV, which I think the real, real rich ladies of London, oh, they wouldn't be caught dead. Not in 2025 either. I mean, those names sound very posh. I'm obviously going to watch this.

Yeah. But they actually, I was just, I just then actually started scrolling on and reading it and one of them, Amanda Cronin's, Claimed Fame is having the longest legs in Belgravia and I'm sold. Stand her. What have you been loving this week, Beth? I've got to start watching TV again. So I'm going to do a book this week and then I'm going to binge some TV over the weekend for next week. It's a book that I read on my

holiday and it is The First Bad Man by Miranda July. It is narrated by a 40-something woman called Cheryl Glickman. She's a very odd duck and she lives by this system of beliefs and organisations. Some are logical, some are magical, some are inexplicable and it's just a construction of a fancy world that she can live in the world and feel like there's some order. She's just such a strange but also a resting narrator, really frustrating, but also quite pure in a lot of ways. She works at a non-profit women's self-defence studio, among other people, this board member called Philip, who's in his 60s. She believes that they are in this kind of multi-dimensional, different iterations of themselves have been soulmates across history, which is very unusual, very odd. She's just

basically put upon by everyone in her life. And this sort of comes to a head when her bosses voice that troubled Tearaway daughter on Cheryl and says she's going to come and stay with you for a bit, and she is a nightmare guest. She disrupts the whole order of her life. It is, I guess that that's sort of the catalyst and also her, the unfolding of this relationship with Philip, which goes to a place which with modern sensibilities is quite shocking and it's similar to All Fools. If you don't like that really zoomed in, really

granular kind of look at a small cast of truly unusual people and all of the very almost unbelievably unusual things that happen to them, you probably won't enjoy this. But if you liked All Fools, I think this is such an easy sell. This came out about 10 years ago now. And it's just so unlike a lot of contemporary literature. It's just very odd. It's very funny. I just think it's, I thought it was wonderful. And I really, I would be so interested to know whether, because I think All Fools had perhaps more cultural mass appeal. This is just strange. I loved it. But I'm actually looking for my next weed and that sounds so up my strata. I might have to get that. You should.

That sounds amazing. So I have a treat for you. I have a content klaxon this week. So on X, I saw something from at Mrs Jelly Santos, which was basically a repost of somebody on TikTok describing their plight from this week, which is this woman had bought a witch on Etsy from this witch. She'd bought a love spell. Sorry. Wait, let me say that again. This woman had bought- She bought a whole witch. No, she didn't buy a whole witch. This woman had bought a love spell from a witch on Etsy and she told this witch that she wanted her to do a love spell for this guy. She gave him his name and his birth date.

The witch found this guy online and sent him the screenshots and this woman has now shared her story saying that the guy approached her and just said, what the fuck? and this woman has now shared her story saying that the guy approached her and just said, what the fuck? Oh my God. That is hell. What is the ethics around that? What is the witch community? Is there not like the Hippocratic Oath for witches? Is there not something that means you're not allowed to do this? You'd at least have to give my money back. Is this what she's doing for every... Is this witch that's selling these spells on Etsy? Is she a real witch? Secondly, has anyone else come forward and said, I also bought this spell and she also DM'd random man on Instagram to be like, this psycho bitch is trying to make me

fall in love with you. Imagine if she was just, that was a scam, but it was like kind of a Robin Hood scam. Who's on the right side? That's my question. But we've all been that down bad. I mean, I've never bought a love spot, I have to say, but like sometimes you are down so bad that you think, maybe, maybe I'll make a wish or maybe I'll, yeah. 10 pounds on Etsy, not bad offer. That gives witches a bad name. What's the most down bad thing you've done?

Oh, this is a bad name. What's the most damn bad thing you've done? Oh, this is a bad question. When I was at school for about three years, there was a boy three years above me and every single day I would just add him on Facebook and then quickly un-add him just so he would see my name pop up. Oh, wow. That's the real- Right, just Facebook requested. Oh, that's like the MSN thing where you'd go offline.

Or I might even have poked him. Oh, not a poke. Yeah, exactly. I think might even have poked him. Oh, not a poke. Yeah, exactly. I think I might have poked him as well. Sorry, Gen Z listening. They're like, what? I did actually eventually snog him when I was at uni though. Is it good?

It paid off. Is it everything you dreamed of? I actually think no. I think it was really disappointing. I think the worst one I did was message somebody I fancied and then when they didn't reply, just reply and say something like, oh, sorry, my friend took my Facebook and messaged you. Yeah, yeah. I bet that is, I've done that a billion times.

Oh, 100 times. I mean, I haven't done that. You did that yesterday. Sorry, my friend's on my phone. Oh no, I was Facebook hacked. I really, I'm sure, I know that I've got one and if it comes to me, I'll put it on our Instagram. I did see one on TikTok of a girl who basically she wanted to go on a trip with this guy. And so she pretended that she had won tickets to this like quite important baseball game.

She just paid for them. She paid for their entire thing. She was like, it's the competition. We've won the competition. And I think they maybe, either they went and then he go to her or he just didn't turn up. And she just spent thousands of doll hairs to do this, to basically just like, oh my God, we have to go on this romantic vacation, but it's all free. Oh, and it really broke my heart to see that. And it just gave me like the absolute fear. I think the most famous one in recent history was Demi Lovato. I don't know if it was Jamie Dorn and I can't remember who it was, but she followed the famous male... Yes!

She followed Henry Cavill. She then posted a bikini picture and then Henry Cavill's picture or something. And it was literally because it was when you could see activity and it was within minutes. It was such a beautiful sequence that again, we all have done. Oh, the first one. Posting that story for that specific person. Yeah.

And you kind of look through it and you're like, they've not seen it. What a waste of time. It's been 23 hours and 45 minutes, they've not seen it. And you're just like scrolling through. I mean, I would get like on a picture, like if I get 5,000 people looking at it, better believe at my most damn bad, I'm scrolling, I'm scrolling, I'm scrolling. It's so humiliating, but I think it's universal, so I don't feel bad saying that. So this past weekend, I absolutely threw myself into Netflix's new series, Sirens, and I've been absolutely gagging to talk about it. It's a dark comedy thriller starring

Julianne Moore, Megan Farhi and Milly Alcock, a truly inspired casting choice in my opinion. And essentially the series is a mix of class satire and reflections on trauma, family and accountability. Farhi plays Devin who starts the series coming out of jail and she's caring for her dad who has dementia. She reaches out in desperation to her younger sister Simone over text who's played by Alcock and she gets no reply. She's ghosted. She does get a fruit basket however, a very classy fruit basket. She is absolutely furious and she travels down to confront Simone and unexpectedly breaks into her new world which is lavish, rich, very, very colourful, and finds out that Simone is the

personal assistant, really the emotional support assistant, I'd say, to Julianne Moore, who plays Michaela, the ultra rich wife of a tech billionaire. The series is really tense, teases murder and betrayal and even the supernatural at times. I am going to keep back my opinion before hearing yours. So what did you both think of it? I am glad I watched this. I had a lot of fun watching the show. Actually, one of the things I really liked is I didn't see any spoilers before I hit play, which is so unusual. People spoil it day one and I knew nothing about it. Like literally nothing apart from a few of the cast. So that was something I really enjoyed. I mean, Glenn Powell shows up in episode one,

I went, I'm actually going to love this. I liked it a bit. No, I think I liked it quite a bit. I fear I'm going to have more fun discussing it with you today than maybe I had watching it. Not to say I didn't have any fun. It's a fun show and at five episodes, I think that's actually lovely. It wasn't bloated. A lot of people have given it its props for that. It's not bloated. It doesn't eke out for the sake of it. It's five episodes, bit uneven, well-rounded. I liked it quite a bit. Does it sound like I liked it quite a bit? Because I did. No, it doesn't. It sounds like, I liked it. I liked it.

Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Also, when was Glenn Powell in it? Yeah, I agree. Who is Glenn Powell? Did you watch the right show? Who am I thinking of when I say, I'm going to be in the show? I'm going to be in the show. I'm going to be in the show. I'm going to be in the show. I'm going to be in the show. I'm going to be in, when was Glenn Powell in it? Yeah, agree.

Who is Glenn Powell? Did you watch the right show? Who am I thinking of when I say I'm thinking of not Glenn Powell, I'm thinking of the other guy with Glenn in his name from It's Always Sunny. Yes, I cannot say. Glenn Howerton. Glenn Howerton. Sorry, sorry.

Glenn Powell is not in this, ladies. Put down your remotes. Two very different men with very different looks, I'd say. Oh God, what a funny, that was a good one. I was like, because I, sorry, I'm so grateful to Vachera for bringing this to my attention. I absolutely loved it. I have to say at the beginning,

I thought it got to have ever so slightly a shaky start. I felt slightly awkward. And my only criticism would be it's kind of tonally inconsistent because, and we'll get into this more, but there is these kinds of every ever so maybe not so subtle actually supernatural, which I love mythological ties to sirens, but then that also kind of goes a bit psycho thrillery in and amongst the comedy. That being said, I thought it was so good. I thought it was action-packed. I thought each episode was so tight and it wasn't like, it just felt like there was so much going on. I loved Julianne Moore. I thought she was incredible. I thought Megan Farhi got to play like a big range. I actually read a review in The Guardian from Lucy Mangan, which I agreed with. So it's adapted from a play and she says that it still has enough

theatricality to allow most of the leads at least a minor monologue in which to flex their muscles to fly. And I think that it does make sense that it's adapted from a play. It feels very play-like. I understand that maybe people are quite fatigued with this kind of snapshot into the uber rich. That will never be me. I absolutely love seeing people do crazy things with crazy amounts of money. So I've got more to say. Overall, I loved it and I thought it was a feast. But looking at Richa's face, I can't work out who she's going to side with.

Who are you going to be tonight, Michael? Are you a Beth or are you an Anoni? I'm going to be a secret option number three, which is I did not like this show at all. Fascinating. I know. Yes. I know we- We've never had this before.

I know, we're all sitting on different sides of the room. I did not like it. I was so ready to love this series. I was so prepped. I was gagged. I was seated. I was so ready to love this series. I was so prepped. I was gagged. I was seated. I was so ready. And then I just felt as if they introduced all these different elements. The supernatural, I really loved that kind of foggy, almost drunk camera vision that made you feel like, oh my God, is Judy Ann Moore this witch? Is she actually a siren? Is she putting a spell on people around her? But actually, I don't know. None of those threads

were really picked out in the way that I thought they would. And there was all these red herrings, which I get could have felt really exciting, but I just felt really pissed off. I just felt like, why have you made me think this is going to happen, or this storyline is going to go somewhere, or this character is ex-person, but what is the actual truth is far less exciting. It just fell flat for me. And also aesthetically, it kind of felt as if it was on the Bridgerton train of thought aesthetically, where it was like these really lurid bright colors, not a feast for the eyes, but more like a gorging. Every color was like heightened neon patterns everywhere. And it just made me feel a bit sickly.

I can, yes, I could agree with that. I think we'll start, maybe I'll start with the things I didn't like and then we will end on a more positive note. But I agree. I think I agree with a lot of the critics that said it maybe wasted its own potential because it has got buckets of potential. I mean, cast Kevin Bacon, Julianne Moore, not Glenn Powell, but we didn't need him. And I think if it had been willing to define itself more acutely, lean into one direction, whether that was the fantasy, the supernatural, whether that was making something generational, making something really sort of dark or comic. I understand it was a play and I think that can work. I mean, play to small screen or big screen. Freebag works because it zooms in where it needs to. Streetcar, Angels in

America, what's that film I'm thinking of? You probably don't because I'm not saying any context. August, Osage County, which was really like close to the face. It's really like you feel like you're watching a play. I think when you've got something that's really splashy with a lot of welly, like an impact in other areas, maybe you don't need to do that. But I just, yeah, it felt like it wasn't, I was waiting for something a bit more delicious. It was a good meal. It was a good feed, but it wasn't delicious. I agree, I really love watching the rich people stuff. I think we've maybe got a bit samey in it and it reminded me of Perfect Couple from

last summer, which also had Megan Fahey in it. She's amazing at both of these things. I imagine I won't think about this again after this conversation and I probably won't rewatch it which for me is a sign of an excellent bit at LA. That's so interesting because I've read loads of really positive reviews. Maybe that's like, cause our phones are tapped into whatever our train of thought is thinking, cause I would watch a second season. I don't know if it's cause I love Nanny McPhee, but I loved the gaudy

clothing and the really neon colours. And I do agree, it was quite on the nose, but I kind of love that upsets downsets, the commentary. I love the sibling relationships. It did cover a lot of ground in terms of thematically. But what I quite liked about this red tearing misdirection thing, and I don't know how much we can get into it without kind of spoiling it, but it's the mythology in the way that we tell our lives and the way that we describe how certain genders act and who they are and then the truth of what reality is. And I felt like the way that blame was apportioned when you're watching it and then the way that actually things happened, it

was a completely exaggerated but perhaps kind of true telling of like, and obviously the whole thing is based on sirens, these mythological creatures that are like mermaids that drag people down to their deaths. You hear the siren song and you're dragged down to the depths to see all they want to do is kill you. That these is gorgeous. So I love that element. But also it was making me think of there's so much language that we use around women, which is just a way of disparaging them and creating them to be these sort of like sexy

monsters that you simply can't get away from when the truth is often perhaps not that and even in a case like not to make it really serious but thinking of someone like Amber Heard and you know the way that people kind of talk about her and describe her and then the reality of who she is. I know that's not a tall link to the show but I just thought there was an element where depending on on how you read it, I thought it could have been seen as clever, but I could also understand how it could be seen as quite saccharine and empty. Yeah, it had some really good threads in it. And my favourite bit about it was the sibling dynamic. And I really wanted to hear both of your thoughts on whether you agree with

my read, which is the lack of accountability and also this theme of responsibility. So Devin, who's played by Megan Farhi, has this huge sense of responsibility and accountability with her dad. It sounds like their dad was abusive, neglectful, a terrible parent, quite honestly. And because of his his actions Simone goes into the care system and through that faces further abuse. And part of the dilemma of the show is their father has dementia is going to require a huge amount of care and family support essentially because they are not in a financial position to outsource that care. So Simone is faced with Devin asking her, can you help me? And she says, no, I will not help this parent. What he did to me is unforgivable. And she puts down a boundary. And I feel like a big theme in this is almost

like a generational divide between this idea of slightly older, maybe like even the top bracket of millennial children, understanding that to be a child is to care for your parent, regardless of the circumstance, and maybe a newer train of thought, this more-therapized train of thought, which is estrangement is an okay scenario, especially if a person is toxic in your life and they lead to harm for you. And those two siblings not understanding each other's position and really butting heads with that. I felt like that was my favourite theme in it because it's such an interesting topic.

Yeah, it's almost like the inheritance of responsibility and these kind of familiar lines and you've got Simone who's this character that's almost painted as she needs to be rescued. She's this damsel and then her older sister who also adopted or took her on and cared for her is then extending that care and going, we've got to keep the family together. I've got to rescue you from this. Actually, Simone, as we see, maybe actually has clearer eyes on that and doesn't believe. She kind of believes, well, I was harmed here. The tether has broken in terms of responsibility and she's almost been adopted into this other family. She's actually very clear-eyed about, I think there's mythology of family. There's also the mythology of wealth in this.

Simone, you think she's been taken in, maybe she's a victim, but she's willingly gone there and it's almost like she's both victim and she's very clear-eyed. She's taken in by the shiny things, but also she understands proximity to power. She's aligned herself to power rather than familial duty. These are all very ancient themes, which I really like to tie in. She doesn't seem to have grown beyond what happened to her as a child. Whereas Megan Fahey is this like beautiful but grizzled emotionally character that is sort of just rolling with every punch. She has not gone to this almost heaven-like place. She stayed in reality. It's really interesting actually interplay watching the two sisters and at the end, no spoilers, but you kind of go,

who is free here? Who has been emancipated? Who has grown as a character? Who's life actually, shiny or otherwise, is going to be more in servitude than the other? Not to give anything away, but I think that's it. There's a circularity with these sirens. There's almost like a replacement of beautiful siren, e.g. woman on the rock, it opens with Julia Moore, kind of siren on the rock of this craggy island. And I really enjoyed that. I think it has these ancient themes of like family responsibility duty. And it explores those really well. That's actually, I agree, that's actually what it does well. That is one of those things. And

if you look at it as a generational family drama, there is a lot there. That's perhaps the meatiest part for me. This is the thing. I actually don't think it is comparable to The Perfect Couple apart from on its face and the fact that it shares its star, Megan Farhi. I actually thought that thread was so interesting because it's so true to life. I think that in public discourse we're so easy to say, this person's wrong, this person's right, we'll cancel them. But I'm sure you'll know people or even within your own families, you don't do that. Most people don't do that. Most people will have a difficult dad who

they may be dealing it on with, but then they're not going to get estranged from them, but they find it hard to maintain the relationship, but they feel a level of responsibility. I felt like that was really much more realistic than sometimes the portrayal that we see, because it is very murky and a lot of the threads within the show is what is right and what is wrong, what is good and what is bad. And there's no answer to that. And every character is flawed to varying degrees and everyone is striving for survival in varying ways and who is the villain and who is the victim was played with really well. And I think actually, maybe the kind of Stepford Wives aesthetic took away from what I thought was like a really smart and quite

thorough analysis of these like relationships. And I think because it's played out in telenovela dramatic, bright colors way, it almost may be undermined it. But I really thought it was a really, really strong show with so many threads that could be pulled out. And that each character was really fully fleshed out. Even though for instance, like the husband, Peter, we don't meet him straight away. And I thought that he was really well fleshed out. And the boyfriend with the ducks on his blazer, what is his name? Glenn Powell.

Wait, is that who you're talking about? That's Glenn Howerton. That's Glenn Howerton, but I don't remember his name. Oh, I didn't know that. I thought that was, what's the dad actor called? Because that's who I thought you were calling Glenn Powell. Kevin Bacon. No, not that dad, the other dad. I'm not the other dad.

We have watched the show. I'm sure he's, I've seen him in quite a lot of stuff, I think. Anyway, he is like such a caricature of like a certain type of man. And so I think within, within the show, there was, I think there's loads of layers. Maybe that is also its fault. Its strength, I think, is its ability to convey so many things. But as I said, right at the beginning, maybe it's that tonal inconsistency that also makes it a bit flawed. But for like a not that many parts show, I thought that they really packed a punch. I'm standing my ground. I'm going to be a big defender.

Stand your ground, definitely. Talking about like complex characters, like Kevin Bacon, that dad, as in he's the tech billionaire, he plays like kind of like cool guy, hey, I'm a good billionaire. And I think that is a really interesting character, maybe one we see less of in these rich people shows, because he is very aligned in that identity of like, hey, I'm pretty cool. I understand people like Smoke Weed and whatever. And then he actually, his character is deconstructed by the other dad, the father of the girls who is suffering with dementia. And he has a kind of this moment of lucidity where

they're discussing money and who earns it and who deserves it and what is done with it, if there's benevolent good can be done and whether he has a legacy and if his legacy is just money, what does it mean? I think that was a really interesting dynamic for me because it's very subtle. We don't really learn a lot about this billionaire. He funds the whole thing, but then his wife is more of the engineer. He comfortably sits back in this position of power. Then he has this one moment where he's taken apart by this pretty poor guy who admits he's never been good at making or keeping money, has lived a life of floor and fault, but both of them in being kind of deadbeat dads connect over, oh, we're actually just both sort of unimpressive men just by virtue of that one fact. I thought that very

small scene was one of my favorites. I thought it was very interesting. Yeah, you're so right on that. And also what you said and only about the tone or inconsistencies, I think is the heart of my problem with it. Because I think in treating it like who's the murderer, where's the dead body gonna be? I totally get that it is almost making the viewer realize that we have quite a narrow perception of good and bad and accountability and what characters can even look like these days.

We're almost coming in with all of these assumptions and treating it like a White Lotus Part II or a whodunit. I can get that intellectually, but watching it, I do think it did a massive disservice because the whole time I was just waiting for the dead body. I was waiting for the blood on the hands. I was waiting for the broken candle holder in the library room. It took away from all of those incredible character analysis moments, all of the unfolding of insightful moments between people and these very good meditations on sibling relationships, family dynamics, and yeah, the meaning of money, wealth, and also emancipation as well. The fact that Devon, for all of her feelings of responsibility

and duty to her dad, I would argue is the only truly emancipated free character of them all, because she's not really reliant on a man financially. Can I just say one of my silly favorite bits as well was Devin's casual relationship with sex and the way it is so kind of applauded. Like she's so hilariously picks people up in the show, she kind of looks at them and beckons them to her house, has sex with them and shoves them away. And I love that flippancy around sex and seeing a female character like that. And there's no shame around it. And even those two sisters, I think are really interesting in their relationship. I thought it was really modern.

I really didn't have, I don't know why, maybe I was in the right frame of mind to watch that. I wasn't thinking it was going to be a whodunit. More my own, the thing that I felt to to not have seen executed was the more Fantastical mythological elements, which I wasn't sure you have these trio of friends one of them being called Astro Which made me laugh because that's my dog's name who were sort of like there's a question of is there a cult have people sort of? Been brainwashed that was reminding me of Nicole Kidman's like nine perfect strangers. There's definitely you know elements Maybe it is that we're so overexposed to different

variations on the show that like you said, you come in with, oh, I've seen that before, I've seen that before. And so you try and create the story before you've even been presented with it. But yeah, I just, I really did love it. And again, sirens has like so many meanings. The sisters write at the beginning and talk about how it's their signal that they text each other to say, you know, if something's gone wrong, siren was making me think like red flag, you have sirens of the sea, like the mermaids. So I think there was all of those layers were also imbued within the title.

I mean, would you both watch a second series? I feel like you maybe wouldn't. I'd be, I'd be glad. I would, I would. I liked enough of it to watch second series. I don't know what you think, Richira. Well, I love all of them individually. And as we're talking about it, I do agree with you. I think there's enough there that I would be curious to see what a second series would look like. And specifically Devon, I would watch Devon for five series. I think one, to end on a positive note for me, I think I actually quite liked, it's not

a show you can pigeonhole. That's a good lesson actually as TV viewers, We don't need to be spoon-fed. Something can flow. It doesn't have to be in a pigeonhole. It doesn't have to be, oh, it's like this with this. It's white lotus with this. It doesn't have to be that. And something I thought I really enjoyed actually, the lovely subtle nods to Greek mythology in a thoroughly modern bit of telly like sirens on a craggy island, whatever you read into the word sirens, there's almost this kind of mythological feel. They've got a lot of women humming, that lulls you, that kind of feeling. They had the three women, it was one of them Astrid, Astrid, Chloe and someone else, who are almost like modern day muses,

except they're singing, instead of ballads, they're singing Watt as Percy by Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion in the car. And they do like mantras as well, like you say in the mirror, they go like, you're beautiful. Like spells basically. What is it called? They do words for affirmations. Affirmations. Yeah. It's brilliant.

Like Julianne Moore's styled so kind of Grecian-ly in these kind of flowy dresses while everyone else is in this almost floral uniform of the elite. What else? I mean, yeah, it's basically like women on an island. If you like Greek mythology, she's very much, she's Circe, but also she's Penelope waiting on the island for a lover to come home. She's, what's the woman? She's Calypso kind of trying to keep him there. So, I think there are these really lovely nods to Greek mythology I could have done with more, but again, the show was not there to be created in a lab to please me specifically. It is unusual. It's not like other things that I've watched as much as I wanted it to. Perhaps I won't think much about it, but solidly good TV. I mean, it's fun and it's entertaining.

I think I need to perhaps lower my expectations for every show I watch to rewire my brain. That's a me problem. Jojo Siwa and Chris Hughes are rumoured to be in a relationship is a sentence you might expect to hear in a fever dream after some potent psychedelics, but you are not dreaming. The year is 2025 and the Dance Moms and Love Island alumni have been setting tongues wagging since they appeared together on Celebrity Big Brother. The unlikely couple are maybe probably the perfect product from a show like a surveillance reality show like Big Brother because it is like a lab where you put these two people that would never meet each other and we could have never expected this outcome. Jojo ended her relationship with Australian partner Kath Epps

after starring on the UK fan favourite, when she began to question the rigid labels that she'd given herself around her sexuality. And that in of itself caused tons of conversation. It's interesting because I've found there's actually tons of internet forums that really ship them. Like people are obsessed with them, which is in contrast to quite a lot of hate that JoJo's been getting, especially from the LGBTQIA community online.

Some parts of that community have completely shunned her and dismissed her, despite her being such a vocal part of that community and really talking about her sexuality and probably being incredibly helpful to lots of like young gay women out there who saw her as a voice and a person to look up to. And then we also have Annie Into The Mix, Olivia Atwood, Chris Hughes' ex who has been sharing her take on her old beau. So there's actually loads to get, weirdly loads to get into on this, but I want to know when did you join the chat on the duo? Did you watch them on Big Brother? Did you catch up when they started sort of touching each other in the hot tub? Or have you only been reading all of the online takes? Where are you at with this story?

So I never watched an episode of this series of Celebrity Big Brother, but I almost feel like if this was my mastermind subject, I could do it. I could talk about it all. And that is by virtue of truly absorbing stuff, not willingly, just because it's in the atmosphere, the air around me. And yeah, I know far too much about this couple, potential couple, rumored couple, this duo. I know too much about the situation. I know too much about the flatbacks from now ex partners. And yeah, that's where I'm at with it. But I'm also now at the point of fascination. Now at the point of if I'm at the pub, I need to talk about this with people. I would bring it up willingly. I would want to spend an hour. So I'm so glad to talk about it now. What about you Beth?

Exactly the same. This came to me just the cultural osmosis. So obviously there was quite a big story when she went in there, when Mickey Rourke had said that kind of really vile comment, I think called her the lesbian and then sounded like he made a rape joke, which Chris defended her from, Mickey Rourke, what a scumbag. That primed me to be aware of this series. So I thought this is going to be headlines. As this was going on, I just thought, no, this isn't that. This isn't that. And then when Kath started posting their side, which I believe was after the breakup, I thought, oh, this has been sort of, there's something here that is not, whether it's a relationship or whether it was just a kind of disruptive event in Jojo's life that led to her examining her relationship, examining her identity. It feels like it's been quite seismic and so is very interesting. It's one of those

mad pairings that can only come out of the Big Brother house. It reminds me of, and these two didn't get together in Big Brother, I think on a TV show, Steve-O, E.G., guy from Jackass got thrown around in a port-a-potty human shark bait, went out with Stacey Solomon of X Factor and other shows. They were in a relationship, I think they were on the jump together or something on Channel 4. It's such an odd and unlikely pairing. What? I'm still obsessed with this, Rejira. You have to Google it. There's law to this. They genuinely went out and like totally bonkers cross-Atlantic pairing. And so whether these

two are dating or just in the kind of platonic soulmate, if they've called it, I'm kind of obsessed with it. I love Dance Mom, Alam and Love Island guy from Gloucestershire, shall I rap a bit to Light in the Mood guy. It can only come out of the Petri dish of Big Brother. Love it. You've just reminded me, do you remember Josie Gibson, I think it was 2010 and John James who again, were like such a random pairing. She was like Bristolian, really funny. And then there was this like Australian kind of surfer guy and they just seemed again, like without being in the environment of big brother, those two probably would have never ended up being together, but they were really truly in love.

Like Nick and Pete. I just started getting like drip feeds about these two. Then I got a morbid fascination. On the one hand, I find it quite sweet, but then there's all of these red flags for me, like the age gap and there's comments about how it is a bit weird. Then there's all these kind of nice things about maybe they're helping each other find themselves. I actually thought it's been a beautiful lesson in sometimes the importance of not giving so much gravity to labels, especially when it comes to sexuality. I think it's something that we're really coming towards. I think

there was a time when we found it really important to have labels. And now I think it's actually, it's quite scary how much an audience can turn on you when you supposedly go against what they perceive you to be. And Jojo is only 22 years old. I think her question, her sexuality going, maybe I'm not just like a lesbian through and through, maybe there's scope within my sexuality for me to find other genders attractive. I think that's incredibly normal and actually probably all sexualities on a spectrum. And it's probably more rare to be just at the very far flung end of that spectrum without any room for just one individual to kind of change your perspective on things. I think

one of the saddest things with that story is her audience now coming out calling her a fake or a liar or saying that they no longer accept her as part of their community. I just think that's thrown up some really big red flags in that sense because there is a danger, I guess, in not allowing people to change and grow, which we've spoken about so many times with child stars. I don't think I made it obvious, but although I'm absolutely fascinated by this story, I have no ill wish, no source shred dash of criticism towards JoJo at all. It really doesn't bother me in the way that it seems to have inflamed so many people and people are really mad at Jojo for this. We know that she's a child star. We know

that she's very young. Regardless of age, people have a right to be fluid. People have a right to find themselves. And regardless of whether you think this is a PR publicity stunt or you think this is a real relationship or even just a friendship, I don't get why it's bothered people so deeply because, okay, let's take one, you know, step by step. Say it is a PR relationship. We know that PR relationships exist. People are getting mad about the situation, so it's working. So that proves the theory that people will continue to do this style of promotion,

inflammatory content to get us talking because it works. Okay, so we're the problem. Say it's a friendship. Are people that bothered about two people just kind of kissing and being friends? Like, why does it bother you so much? Can everyone listening to this podcast truly say they've never kissed their friend? If it's just me, then okay, maybe I'm the problem. Third one, if they're in a relationship, the age gap is the only genuine point that I can really get behind because a 10 year age gap, especially when you're 22 is a big age gap. But we've spoken about this before. We have slightly overcorrected in the topic of age gaps. And I think we all have to analyze where that fear is coming from. Is it a fear for women? Is it a fear for ourselves? Is it the fact

that now she's with a man? So obviously a power dynamic is there, legitimate stuff. But I also think people are just mad because she said she was one thing and now she's doing something different. And also people feel like this is, I guess they've lost a star that they had an understanding of. They felt like they had control and they knew who she was and now she's doing something different. They feel like they've lost control of who she is. But to that I say that you can never have control of somebody, especially when they're famous. It is bizarre, this relationship and this pressure we attach to people who we have no real relationship with. I find it very bizarre. I think you've nailed it there. It's a loss of control and that's the problem with role

models. They have to exist in such narrow and unchanging ways. We talked about niches online, but they extend into the genuine celebers fit. People quite like to attach an emotional attachment to almost like they're a character of themselves, a character and a static in time. She is a young woman in the first flush of adulthood who may well be on a journey, may not be, but at no point has owed us, the general public, a total glimpse into her identity as it shifts or not. For what it's worth, I don't think they are in a relationship. I don't think they're even pretending to be. I think that they are following the mood of this and seeing how excited people are

getting, and they're riding that wave. There's so much misreporting. If you search her name, you'll see headlines going, she confirms her relationship. They are in a relationship. Then you read the news stories, you watch the accompanying clips. They do know such things. They're very coy and they're using language like soulmate friendships, platonic, never met anything like her. That's my joy. That's my bestie. I believe that they are having fun with the rampant speculation, but I think the reporting on it has been really misleading. And a lot of people are getting this wrong, I think, in the journalistic world. Even beloved Alison Hammond, there was a bit of a clunky interview where she was interviewing Jojo and I think maybe Chris was there and then he left, it

was on a video call and she kind of said, look, I love this relationship, it's beautiful, but for the record, what is your status with Chris? And then Jojo was saying something, but catching the language, talking about soulmate relationships. And then Alison's like, but with benefits? And it's like, to ask if something's sexual or romantic, and they're obviously dodging that question and saying friends. I just think it's quite a narrow way. And I just found it really uncomfortable. And quite a lot of people are doing this. And I love Alison Hammond dearly, but I just thought that's not an okay question to ask. They're great sports about it, but I think it's, let's remember she is 22 year old young woman. Like we don't need to ask if it's a sexual relationship she's in when she said that it's platonic soulmates. Even if it was,

I just don't think it's an appropriate question to ask. platonic soulmates, even if it was, I just don't think it's an appropriate question to ask. Oh, this is annoying because I really am speculating that they're in a relationship. Every picture they post, I'm like the hand on the knee, the kissing that does look a bit like snogging. It's giving early stages of a couple, not that it matters, but that is certainly, I'm picking up what they're putting down and I might be picking up incorrectly. I also think part of the speculation, which is really interesting to watch, which is again about that kind of like feeling like you have ownership of people, is the fact that Jojo Siwa and Chris Hughes, if we were doing like a school teen rom-com film, would be in completely different cliques.

Like she would be in the kind of like rhinestones drama crazy out there girl doing backflips in the hall before doing a flash mob. And then Chris Hughes would kind of be like with the jocks and the cool boys. And it's like these two factions have come together. And I actually think that that's part of the fascination of this is these two worlds coming together. But that's kind of what makes it if you forget about how old he is, because that can obviously be a bit of a spanner in the works in terms of how we digest this. And there is from Olivia Atwood and others, you know, speculating that he's using her to bolster his own fame.

But if you forget that, they do just seem quite like giddily obsessed with each other in a way that's quite hilarious because they just honestly couldn't be from further different walks of life. And there's kind of like a childlike joy to it where that lots of people are saying, you know, they've both given each other this freedom. He's given her the freedom to kind of grow into an adulthood, which maybe is quite hard to find when you're so famous, have such a narrative around who you are, you're thrust into the big brother house, which is probably where is it? Is it just outside of London with this guy? And then she's allowed him to be, I guess, a bit more playful. Or also, is she just his new chem

is another thing that people have said, because he does have a, he has a history of making these big kind of platonic romances on shows. I don't know. There's a lot to get into. I forgot about Ken. That's so funny. What's the way to clarify? So Olivia Atwood is getting sucked into this. I think she's left a few comments, is that right? On TikToks. And one of them was like, she's very famous talking about Jojo because someone made a TikTok being like, I wonder what Olivia Atwood thinks. So I do feel like she's maybe being, she's been quite sucked into it and labeled as like salty ex-partner and needs to get over it. But I think she's maybe being, she's been quite sucked into it and labeled as like salty ex-partner needs to get over it. But I think that's just her, that's her character as well,

to say things like that, to be a bit acerbic and to say the quiet part out loud. I mean, I assume she was suggesting that there was an element that he was buddying up for the combined star power. I don't know, but I'm finding that really, that's just how these things, how the machine works to get as many different scandals in one scandal as possible. I mean, I don't, I quite like Oliver Atwood. I think she refuses to play the game sometimes and I appreciate that even if she maybe oversteps. In some of her videos, I think she has been dragged into this for maybe like four words. I don't know if she said any more than that. Maybe I've got it wrong then because I listen, I just realized the clip, I watched a clip of her on a podcast, I think it was with Katie Price and I watched it in the context of it being shared to do with this, but maybe

it wasn't the right timeline. Maybe it's just like an old video where she's talking about Chris and it's about how Chris had given Katie Price his number when she was with Olivia and Katie showed her, there's a whole thing about that, but that might have been prior. So yeah, she has been dragged into it. That was quite a while ago. Maybe that was quite a while ago. I thought she had actually done a video about it. I really like Olivia as well. I think she's really interesting. She's very clever. And she also does just say what she thinks, which I think is a great place to be. She seems quite impervious to being moved to say what people want her to say. But yes, I was just Googling and it's like another comment from Olivia Atwood and maybe you're right. I've let the smorgasbord of information

mush together and I've just been like, fine, I agree. But the ex in, the actual ex here, Kath, the recent ex, they have done, they went on their own podcast, which I think was maybe defunct for a few months. And then they were interviewed by a writer friend of theirs. And they go into incredible detail about the entire thing. When Jojo was in the house, how that all went down, the letter they wrote her, the breakup itself, the media firestorm. On the podcast where Kath is talking to a friend, she reveals right at the top that I think their first big heartbreak was also with a public figure. I do think that maybe as an element, you think, okay, I've been through this. That was the reason

they were reluctant to get into a relationship with Jojo. You do think the public humiliation, public breakup, I couldn't go through that once, let alone twice. And I think maybe that is some kind of context to why they're like, no, I'm going to give my side of the story. This feels really unfair. I am a person here. I'm real. Because I think that does happen. We have the celebrities and then we have everyone else and we do put them in a higher position. I mean, and they get more highly scrutinized because of it. But I do wonder whether this was a kind of, oh my God, fatigue. I've gone through this. I'm not letting it lie this time. I don't know. It's all speculation, but the episode, I think it's called Big Brother and the Whole Damn Thing,

and it's on the show called Conversations with Kath. We can link this in the show notes. I didn't finish it. I was listening to it earlier. And I really feel for them because what a baffling situation. I don't think Jojo's at all. If you look at this out of the public lens, I mean, it's someone having a momentous experience at age 21, she now has recently turned 22, realizing maybe the relationship isn't right, ending that relationship and then moving on or not, but just having a good time after that. Who among us at age 21, 22 was not? That's such normal behaviour, but just the way that this, it's the kind of stuff that genuinely is crazy making. If this happened to me,

I'd be in a padded room. I know. I just, I think so many elements of this have become so dramatic in a way that they don't need to from multiple people. And I guess that just has a ripple effect when your now ex is on TV, seeming to get close to a new person and you can't really speak to them, I guess then that makes you feel completely spiraling and out of control. So you go to TikTok to share how you feel when they unexpectedly break up with you at the wrap party for said show. And I just, I don't know, I just feel like multiple people here should have probably done different things, but also it sounds like just if I was messy in my twenties and had access to, you know, all of this shit, I'd probably be doing the worst kind of things publicly.

And so I don't, I don't blame anyone. I think it is just the messiest breakup of the last year that I've seen publicly. I think in a year's time, two years time, your friend close to Kath probably might say, you probably shouldn't have gone on a podcast and spoken about it. I don't think it did yourself any favors, but also it makes complete sense what a shitty situation to be in. I just, I don't necessarily agree. And I've spoken about this in the bonus episode. I don't love airing dirty laundry and I don't think it does you any favors, especially when you've gone through something like this, because I don't love airing dirty laundry and I don't think it does you any favors, especially when you've gone through something like this because I don't think it is a good way to process it.

So I don't love how people are acting, but I also just think, I guess they got to live and learn. I guess the very last piece of the puzzle in this story is the fact that Kath and Jojo, I think had been together like four or five months and apparently were very seriously talking about marriage, which is again, another like common joke about gay, queer, lesbian relationships that they, you kind of go on a first date, girlfriend, a girlfriend, and then you're married and you have a house within the space of like three weeks. But Kath is also older. Kath is 27, I believe. So again, a bit older, maybe a bit more wise. I don't know, at 27, would I be okay if my 22 year old partner was on TV, kind of flirting after four months? I don't know. In straight world where I exist, it's like in Mean Girls,

in straight world, four or five months, you might not even be exclusive, I would say. So it would be pretty damning, but I certainly don't think I'd be on TikTok kind of talking about it. And what it all seems to come back to is actually there is Jojo at the center who is very young and has always created lots of fame and obviously people, it feels a little bit like everyone's feeding off her fame and maybe she's just enjoying the freedom that she should enjoy, not to say that anyone's exploiting her. But I feel most of my emotions go towards Jojo and just thinking, God, I hope this young woman is able to live an interesting, fulfilling life and come of age as the rest of us are able to do outside of the public eye. And it's

very hard to not think that maybe anyone older than her, anyone in her orbit could be trying to ride off her coattails a little bit. How would this play out in real, in vertical commons real life? Would it be very different? Perhaps. Thank you so much for listening this week. Also, have you listened to our latest Everything In conversation episode? This week, we spoke to author, podcaster and icon of our times, Caroline O'Donoghue about pop culture, bookwriting, sci-fi, non-monogamy and genuinely so much more. If you've enjoyed the podcast, please do leave a rating and a review on your podcast player app. It helps others to find the podcast and helps us to

keep making it. Please also follow us on Instagram and TikTok at everything is content pod. See you next week. Bye.