Everything Is Content - Makeovers & Glow Ups In Pop Culture (Rerelease)

Episode Date: July 31, 2026

EIChow Chows, we have a lovely throwback episode for you. Real EIC stans will remember we did our first-ever double episode on beauty two years ago! From Andy’s bangs in The Devil Wears Prada to Trinny and Susannah, glow ups were the most exciting film trope millennials like us grew up on. But how does it feel when we're all now looking at our reflections like a before image thanks to social media, the rise of cosmetic work and celeb transformations off the screen? We'd love to hear your thoughts on the ep. We're all naughty and check DM's and Spotify comments, even when we're OOO. Love O,R,B xxxxxDAZED: Snog Marry Avoid? The emotional impact of being on the 00s makeover showNEW YORKER: The Age Of Instagram FaceJIA TOLENTINO: Trick Mirror STYLIST: Always chasing happiness but never getting there? You might be on the hedonic treadmillNEW YORK TIMES: Why Do We All Have To Be Beautiful?FILMS DISCUSSED: My Big Fat Greek WeddingThe Devil Wears PradaMiss Congeniality The Parent TrapShe’s The Man TV SHOWS DISCUSSED: Ugly Betty Snog Marry Avoid?10 Years Younger What Not To Wear How To Look Good Naked Extreme MakeoverThe Swan The Biggest Loser Queer Eye Revenge Body with Khloé KardashianAmerica’s Next Top Model  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello EIC heads. Happy Friday from me, Beth, plus Ruchera and Anoni, e.g. Everything is content. So if you listen to our Wednesday episode this week, then you will know that we are on a very rare two-week break from the pod. As an independent show, we are a three-person team who do literally everything ourselves. So we just need a little moment to recharge and get our content ducks back in a row. Don't worry, we will be back before you know, with a brand new and very juicy bonus episode on Wednesday, the 19th of August. and we will hopefully have some very fun news about the future of the podcast then. We didn't want to leave you empty-handed, however, so we will be doing some Everything is Content reruns to tide you over. This week, we're running it back to an episode from over two years ago where we did a deep dive on makeovers,

from Instagram face to Snog Mary Avoid to Andy's iconic bangs in the Devil Wears Prada One to the tyranny of Trinny and Susanna on what not where. We ask why we're all still so obsessed with makeovers and mull over if a glow-up can actually make us happier. Thank you so much for listening and we already can't wait to be back. Okay, it's begun to record. I'm scared. Ray, why are you scared? Special episode. It's secure. Let's just see what happens. I'm Beth. I'm Ruchera. And I'm an only. And this is Everything is content. We're three friends who love everything to do with pop culture. Films, TV shows, runways, memes, literature. We're all over it. Every week, we get together to discuss the pop culture stories that have ignited the online discourse.

We are the highlighter in your content makeup bag. Over the next two weeks on the podcast, we're going to be doing deep dives into the world of beauty. Today is all about makeovers. From Anne Hathaway and Princess Diaries to TikTok glow-up challenges, what impact a cultural representations of makeovers have on us? And how is that changing? Make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss a single episode and chat to us over on at Everything is

content pod on Instagram and TikTok. Usually we start the podcast by sharing what we've been loving this week, but I want to do something different. I want all of us to say our favourite makeovers from the pop culture universe. Beth, what's yours? Mine is quite an understated makeover that just like warms my heart every time I watch it, which is two Liz makeover in my big fat Greek wedding. Yes.

Which is a film I absolutely adore. and it's probably one of my top five comfort watches. And I think I love it because it's really driven by a lot of joy. So she is like a waitress in her family restaurant and she's so meek and she's kind of like dresses in very drab colours. And, you know, wears these big glasses. And then she kind of spots this like hunky Ian Miller, which is how they say it in the film. And she undergoes. she like just undergoes this transformation which is very like internal where she wants to go to

school she wants to leave the family restaurant and become I think a travel agent and it's a really organic process like she experiments with makeup she kind of takes the glasses off it's really subtle it's really joyful and she does it all and she just ends up like glowing and she's got blusher on and she is just like transformed in the most understated I've used that word a thousand sometimes, but like she just basically had colour palette changes and it's like a huge glow up. So that's probably mine. It's so true that it comes from within with her, which is quite different to a lot of other makeovers.

She's the one who kind of experiments. It's quite like a full life glow up. Exactly. It's like driven by like what she wants to do, like her inspiration and aspiration. It's kind of like a cherry on the top that she gets. It's like cute denim jacket to go with it. So it's like a not problematic one. So I'm hoping one of you has a really problematic like full body.

transformation. Ruchero, what is yours? Mine is a classic but a goodie. Mine is the devil wears Prada. The fact that Andy goes from, not my words, the fashion words, drab to just completely chic, I don't know, Chanel wearing, glossy woman with bangs strolling in through the Vogue offices. Oh, not Vogue, sorry, mode off. No, wait, what's the vaccine called? What is it called? Run away. Run away. Sorry, I got caught up on the parody. Runway. Runway. not vogue. What's made? Is that American,

no, American Frera's thing? Ugly Betty. Ugly Betty. Again, well, actually, no, she never had a makeup of it, did she? They just put glasses on a very pretty woman and said she was ugly. She gets her braces off at one point.

So she puts, she gets rid of her old glasses and she wears square glasses. But it is worth mentioning with Ugly Betty. I feel like one of the reasons why she was quote unquote unattractive in the world of fashion in the show was because she was

Mexican and because she was a woman of color. And also the fact that everyone around her bizarrely considered her to be plus size or fat, which she, I think, to a very normal eye, is not at all. And even if she was, that shouldn't make her unattractive. And we'll get into it, obviously, but those kind of elements of race, ethnicity and body size contribute massively to this makeover topic. So her glow-up is like the My Big Fat Greek Wedding, where subtly over the series, you see her just become like her but sheika over time which is really nice quite cute actually yeah whereas andy i feel like has the classic makeover we're at zero to 180 and she just like goes from andy 1.0 to literally like just a fashion bombshell literally overnight and it's all done with like

stanny tootchy's character behind her just like orchestrating the whole thing my favorite thing about that makeover is it's only gotten better with time to me and I feel like all the looks have only become even more chic and even more fashionable to me as I get older I guess appreciate it all especially because like you said she again in that one she enjoys it like she thinks she looks great it's like she becomes this whole new person when she has this whole new wardrobe and I love all of the clothes and only what's your what's your favorite makeover let's not put two's favorites come on because I love them all but one of my favorites is um miscongeniality.

Oh. We have Sandra Bullock. Gracie Lou Freebush. Yes. And I think what's so good about this makeup is Sandra Bullock's physical comedy is so funny. So she's obviously gorgeous. But as a child,

I remember being like, oh my God, they've made this really like ungangely woman really pretty. It's like, again, they're just like straightened her hair and put in a dress. But it's funny because she's still this like burping, pulling a wedgy out, kind of like quite masculine presenting woman

in this like, really sexy, beautiful dress and it's just funny watching her be so gorgeous and then act sort of like burpee and farty. And that is just, she's just so hot and it's such a good film. It's Michael Kane doing it. Michael Kane. We always love like a guy in the background orchestrating the makeover. But is that the one where she literally falls flat on her face when she comes out and it's like Tom Jones, she's a lady and she just like literally tanks. Yes. And then she has to do, I can't remember what her talent is when they do the talent show, but it's that quote where the girl's like, and what's your favorite date?

And she's like May 5th, because it's cool enough to wear a t-shirt and a light jacket or something. Do you know what? She did the quote? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's your ideal date? What's your ideal date?

That's it. I actually love mystery deal after it. I think it's really, and we'll get into this, but I think it is one of the more problematic kind of makeover arcs, but it is such a fantastic film. No one could ever make me hate it.

And yeah, before we start this big episode, we want to say that, like, having this as an entrance, I guess, is proof of the fact that we can not. know the problematic, but they're just so fucking good. They're such a good part of culture. What were the importance of those makeover scenes for you both?

My big fat Greek wedding, I think I'm going to position it in the point I must have watched it first, which would have been like, I'd know early teens. And I think because it kicked off her love story, because it was the gateway to her, like, basically living a good and gorgeous life where she, like, is able to fall in love, I think I really, something clicked in my mind that was like, you do have to go through these transformations or like these transformations can be much deeper than like you know skin deep they can actually kickstart your whole like adult life yeah so i just loved that side of it i loved i kind of thought that's what my life would be like um what and only did you have like what what did it like

mean to you to watch what's the name oh freebush sander well do you know what i think this is my it's i I didn't want to be like traumatic about it, but I honestly lived for the scenes when they became more beautiful because I as a young teen, especially, was just desperate to be beautiful. It's all I wanted. I just wanted to be beautiful and thin. So watching makeovers, is this really depressing? Watching makeovers and films and TV, I would like lust off. I'd be like, oh my God, this could happen to me because they present you that it's like some normal person. They can be beautiful. I was just obsessed with that. I don't know why. I always felt like I wanted to have my moment of being made. really beautiful, which is kind of tragic.

It's the idea that there's, each of us has like a beauty, like a world-class beauty like trapped inside of us. And obviously these women, what beautiful to begin with, they were dressed down, they were drabbed up. But watching as a little girl, watching these things, I was like, oh, it's really just a couple of wax strips and a blow dryer and I will be a Hollywood star. I'll be that beautiful.

Was I blind as a child or like, did I have really bad eyesight? Or did we just not, did I not understand bone strips? because I would watch like the Princess Diaries makeover when literally all they do is straighten her hair and take her glasses off and like pluck one eyebrow off and I'd be like oh my god she's so pretty now whereas obviously as an adult you watch it and you're like she's absolutely beautiful like before they all are

everyone's face it's exactly the same but maybe as children like our eye palettes aren't as like evolved or something because like why why couldn't I honestly couldn't see like the beauty of these people until they like put them in a Barbie outfit and like straighten the hair I completely agree I thought that about the Princess Diaries. I was thinking about it today just before we jumped on the record. And I remember watching it for the first time and just being like shell-shocked,

shaken to my core that they were the same two people. I was like, they can't. That person is not that person. And now when I re-watched the film, because, you know, amazing to do rewatches of Princess Diaries, it just is like so obvious that she, I don't know, it's just like really superficial changes that they've done to this person. and it's so obvious that she's like a beautiful person

with curly hair and glasses on, that's it. Although we thought like Lindsay Lohan was two people in the parent trap. I don't think we could be trusted as viewers. I still do a bit. I don't really know if that's not true. I remember asked my mum, why is the other one never in any films?

Why is it only other Lindsay? My mom was like, what? And I was like, I think I was like 12. I was like, why is the other sister? My mom was like, what are you talking about? I was like, for the parent trap, mom was like, oh, no, no. That's the same.

one. But Routure, yours is like Andy, which I think is kind of, what's the name, Andy and the devil has part of? Which I think, visually, it's more about the clothes than it is about, okay, yes, she does ditch her glasses and, like, get a keratin treatment. But I think it's way more about the clothes and the style. Did that have, like, a kind of meaning for you? Yeah, so I think with Andy, I was always obsessed with fashion when I was young, but also similar to you and only had this kind of, like, vague, ugly duckling syndrome. With Andy, it's like her transformation gives her access to people's like validation all around her. And she also kind of gets closer to a job promotion within the world of fashion.

So I feel like there's a slight kind of really wanting to be in those circles when I was watching the film and just being like, ah, she, she not only looks amazing, but she's like, she's living the dream. She's like having people all around her validate that she's cool and she's beautiful. in the world of fashion, which is notoriously, bitchy, as the film shows you. And also, she's going to get promotion and she's going to, she's going to do journalism and it's going to be the thing I want to do. So I think that was what I felt with that one. It's obviously also problematic because we're literally taught as little guys that if you wear glasses, which I did, and if your hair is curly and if you're poor or whatever, then you're,

you're bad, basically needs to be changed. But that's what sucked us in because we're like, oh, we are like the pre-makeover girl, whereas I guess if you show someone that's already perfect. It's like they feel too far away, whereas like teenage girls, they're literally buying into our insecurities by presenting things that would be, which is like spotty, messy hair. Like people's hair is just messy, which is completely normal and bad eyesight. Or tomb boys. Like I was, I was a tomboy and I think, oh, I'm sure there's a better term for it now, but that is what I was called. That's what I kind of embraced as what I was as a kind of like, maybe up to like 1213. And watching these films, like, it's very coded as the makeover is,

discarding tomboy's traits and it's like a feminization process which you know like I was kind of like a little cis girl who like didn't mind wearing dresses so it wasn't like traumatic but it was a very clear message that when you approach adulthood and like someone like um Sandra bullock and miscangeliadhi what happens is she becomes more feminine, she's kind of more delicate and like that is quite a punchy message to be getting when you're a little girl who's like oh am I not you know already the world doesn't really like you climbing trees and being. being like, you know, the burp-farty self that you are. So I think that probably didn't do damage,

but it was probably quite like a bummer as a kid. The other element of this is like once they have the makeovers, they get the guy. So in miscongeniality, she suddenly, you know, irks the interest of a love interest once she's had this massive transformation. In my big fat Greek wedding, she starts falling in love once she is, quote, unquote, the beautiful version of herself.

And she's the man, you know, the nerdy girl who gets made over by the guy, the guy suddenly realizes, oh shit, she's really good looking. I really like her now that she's beautiful. It's that added element of also not only will you have a better life, but you'll also find love if you are beautiful as well. In hindsight, because obviously these films are all like aimed at teenagers, but is this just like big illuminati plans to make sure women are feminine? Because like, what when you actually think about, like who in their right mind is

thinking this is a good thing to like tell young women come into yourself become more womanly don't burp, don't fart, don't fall over, don't have curly hair. That's all we were telling was it just so in the water? Was it so normal? Or do you think there was this element of like, I don't know, the older generations trying to teach women that the best mode of survival is to present yourself as the most attractive version of yourself and then that's seeped into film? I think it's just patriarchy. It is just, it is basically just what is the, value two men in a patriarchy of a woman who wants the same kind of freedom, like the same freedom of movement, the same like basically to roll out of bed, roll out the house, go to work.

Like we can get into like beauty and like how much time and money it takes women to maintain standards of beauty and how men are freer because they don't have to do that. But basically like it doesn't titulate men for us to be blokey because they don't get to look at us. They probably just don't want to share. No, they definitely don't want to share their. faces with us. So it really doesn't serve them. And so yeah, the dominant message will always be, no, no, you keep dressing up. No, you like, you look pretty for us. Just good old patriarchy.

Otherwise known as the Illuminati famously. I mean, maybe. Yeah, which is so bleak. Like, I do love these films and I hate to be like, I'm going to put on my critical hat and like, you know, dredge up all my like theory that I learned at university because it's bleak like these films were fun and they are fun but through like a critical theory lens and through a cultural lens it is quite sinister that the overarching message is love prosperity happiness ladies get the tweezers so not to traumatise all of us because we all grew up in probably the most problematic era of television where there were these makeover shows that were like full body surgery was involved,

completely bat-shap bonkers, makeover reality TV shows. But I do want to go back in time because I feel like that was very key. It was the 2000s. There was, off the top of my head, I'm thinking Snogmarravoid, I'm thinking 10 years younger

were maybe the two, oh no, and the Trinian Susanna, what was that called? What not to wear? Those were the ones. Every week when they were on, I was sat. In my like, I was 10 years old.

plus I was sat and watching. I had the what not to wear book and me and my mum used to like go through it and my mum would be like, well I'm a Susanna but then I haven't got any boobs and it'd be like so Jasmine's trying to work out like what shape and I remember us looking and we'd be like okay so belt over the top

with a long and actually all the stuff that was in fashion then which was kind of like quite long line tops with a chunky belt and a long skirt which has been out so long long it's really back in and I can see the outfits in my head of like Trini and Susanna standing there like Susanna making a cross face

because she's wearing a top that like she shouldn't wag because her boobs is too big and I was just obsessed with them what was your favourite of the make of a show's feature? So you guys are going to have to tell me what snog Mariet Void was like because I think that's the only one

that I didn't watch but the one that I did religiously watch was Got Guans How to Look Good Naked, iconic. So iconic. That was early-ish and again ish body positivity in my mind it was he was not cruel so I was like oh well this isn't what I'm used to he wasn't horrid that was his whole vibe I remember he would jump into the changing room with these women he would like grab parts

of their body and be like this is so beautiful you look amazing blah blah which I also feel like maybe not so great to grab somebody's body and like grab their tits and you know yell stuff in their face but it seemed to be the opposite side of the spectrum where he was yeah complimenting the shit out of them. Yeah. And if I'm not wrong, I think at the end of each episode, they would have to do a naked catwalk or in their underwear or something. I thought it was a photo shoot was a catwalk.

No, no, no, you're right. I think it was a photo shoot, sorry. No, it was, it was a catwalk. Wasn't it always through, like, a shopping mall? I think they'd be in, like, nude underwear maybe. I didn't they were, like, fully naked. I was going to say you kind of flaps out in the fucking Trafford Center. I'm sure that how to be naked or got one show was a direct response, like a reinvigoration

of what not to wear between New Stanley because they used to put people in like, I think they used to call it the box of shame, which was like a mirror changing room with mirrors all the way around and then they were just like grab them by the breast, lift their breasts up, be like, you've got to show off this tiny little waist

to get your terrible shoulders and just like can scream at them. It was the age of harsh truths. That was what it was. It was very much. It was not a gentle touch. It was not a Fab Five modern reinventing of, you know, the queer eye. It was, here's a harsh truth.

You've got to hear it. And we lapped it up. My thing was the surgeries. I can't believe that we watched these women undergo, you know, cosmetic surgery on the TV at the best of, you know, whoever the hosts were and whoever the fucking showrunners were. The worst was the fact that it would be like they'd be put forward by like family members. These clips will come up like, like, my mum really needs to come on the show because she's like shit. And then the husband would be like, I think she's just way happier.

And then they come in, they have rhinoplastie, full set of veneers. boob job, facelift, nose job, tummy tuck, everything. And then makeover, hair dyed, and then they'd come down to all of their family, literally looking like a complete different person, everyone would be crying and clapping. I should love it. It's just inhumane in lots of ways. But also, on the one hand, I really miss it. It shows that I've obviously not overcome my conditioning towards it,

because I think like a Gen Z person would probably watch one of these shows and be horrified, if not coming out in, like, hives. There's still a little bit of me that would love to watch, Like would love to be in that ignorant frame of mind. People could watch those shows and derive pleasure probably would find it uncomfortable now. Which shows were the ones that they had plastic surgery? Because I feel like the Trinney and Susanna one wasn't,

they didn't do surgery, did they? It was 10 years younger they did surgery. I mean, maybe that is the one I'm thinking of. And Extreme Makeover's UK and USA and the Swan. Oh, the Swan was awful. I don't know these ones. So it's basically a competition where I think each episode, two women would go head to head.

They had three months to get surgery, work with the personal trainer and get hotter. Whoever the hottest one was voted would then take part in a beauty pageant at the end of the series. So it was like loads of women that got surgery. And like all the contestants have since been like, yeah, it was fucking horrible for my mental health. I honestly think this might be our tiny age gap richero, which is literally, I think it's that few years. You must have just missed them because I used to watch those shows with my older sisters. and I was probably a bit young for them when I watched them. But yeah, the surgery was the most shocking bit.

Why do you think that there was a period of time of TV where these were just everywhere? I think it was the kind of the newness of cosmetic surgery. It was like a little bit more. It was so shocking in a way that it's not anymore. But it was kind of like the every man was sort of able to get it. We had a bit of money and you really saved up and you really wanted it. You could have these invasive procedures.

But no one really saw them, I think. whereas now, like, it's a lot less invasive and it's a lot more commonplace. At the time, I think early 2000s was when it was like new and shocking and would get bums in seats. Do you also think there's something to do with it being like pre-recession when everyone was a bit credit card happy and thought that they kind of had loads of money and everything was booming a bit? And suddenly like maybe women that were previously been thought of as like middle aged were coming into this kind of new era where they were like spending on themselves and there was like maybe a bigger

class of not to blame it on women, but women's spending. I'm sure there must be something to do with the wealth of that period that was like bringing out this kind of... There's an economic element, which I don't think I've ever considered when thinking about why there were so many makeover shows, but you're right, it must have been a perfect storm for these shows and just for the fact that women were getting, I've probably boob drops. I feel like boodrop and liposuction. Thinking of like women, my friend's mum's new, that was the one that like we'd overhear them

talking about in the kitchen. that was the kind of mother. I guess it's like a mummy makeover early doors. There was definitely an economic element to it. And I also think there was this projection culturally of the frumpy woman that was like, you know, she lets her husband down because she looks frumpy. She hasn't bounced back from having a baby. She's not like the beautiful women who are like having a great career,

who are like moving forward in society. It was like the two kind of the two genders of women where it was like, You don't want to be the frumpy person. And you have these women who are probably feeling shame culturally and feeling like they're not looking like, I don't know, Pamela Anderson or like any of these celebrities like Victoria Beckham out in the public eye. So I think these shows kind of isolate that insecurity, shame women for not feeling the way they feel like they should be

and then just like offer them a solution, which is to like sign away their rights and go on these shows and like do all manner of things to push them into a category that the media's told them they shouldn't be. I think you're so right. Actually, when you think about it, it's amazing how far we've come because we did used to watch those shows.

I'd sit down with my taller sisters, my mum, and we would just watch that as if like that was fine. And then there were shows like the biggest loser. Do you remember that one that was like? I remember that one. You sometimes think nothing's changed. You're like, oh, nothing's changed. But actually, there would be outrage.

People would be disgusted. Like, it's funny on the one hand, but on the other hand to think that like that was, I just looked it up on Extreme Mokerford started in 2002. Actually, that is quite a long time. Okay. 22 years ago, that's quite a long time. I was about to be like, in only, in the short 22 years.

Well, thank God though, because that was so cruel. Like, and all the shows surrounding that, wasn't just the makeover shows, although they were cruel, even if they kind of had a facade of, like a veneer of empowerment. They weren't. It was like the Jeremy Kyle era, the kind of like broken Britain fat families, like, all of that was symptomatic. of like just Britain at that time this kind of amoral like

quite nasty media scene and I think it just springs from that and it just takes advantage of the fact that women will feel yeah there's one thing you can be sure of there'll be a woman who's feeling shit because we've got these egregious beauty standards it's just like and yeah to me

it was just like pure entertainment as a kid I didn't see because it's that thing of you know that scene in devil was proud of which you think this has nothing to do with you And I, as a young woman, obviously didn't think, oh my God, if these women, this is all symptomatic of the world that I have to live in, I went, brilliant, I've got my turkey twizzlers, I'm going to just like be entertained. Whereas now I'm like, what grim world that was like showing us. I completely agree with you. I think it was so down to the media because also that was when the tabloids were the most powerful in British cultural history, more powerful than they are now. You know, fat shaming, calling out celebrity women for being from people. and kind of setting this standard of shame.

But then these were also the magazines of the tabloids that women would consume, I guess, like, breeding the insecurity in themselves and consuming it and kind of laying that shame onto other women. So it was like, we're all dishing it out and consuming it and just like creating the environment for these shows

to happen as well, I guess. I'm thinking now, like, it was like middle class, a lot of these shows were kind of middle class women. And then you get to, so it was kind of like we were viewing maybe the women that we would have seen in normal life. And then you've got something like Snogmire Avoid, which kind of just took like more outliers.

It was a lot of young people who like obviously were not in need of, you know, they were kind of discovering their style. They weren't like stuck in a rut. And what Snogmerey Avoid did was take these people who dressed a little bit strangely to, you know, pods or like to down BBC 3's eye and strip them of those things that made them like individual and interesting, like remotely unique.

I'm going to explain snog married a void to Ruchera because earlier you said that you'd never seen it so basically snog married a void it was BBC 3 it was quite a short show they'd go and find these women they'd take a picture of them they'd get people to go out into the street they'd hold a picture of them and they'd say to men would you snog marry a void they collate all the clips of the men saying avoid and they say right we're going to give you a makeover I actually think a massive

element of this is like class prejudice because lots of the women were really heavily fat-tanned would have lots of jewellery on be dressed quite like slutty and I mean that like fully positively in a way that like do I mean like in a slutty fab way and they would basically scrubble with their tan off take their lashes off take out their extensions dye the hat oh my gosh basically they made them like a slightly bucks and primary school teacher always afterwards and then they go back onto the streets and ask everyone if they would snog them and all the men apparently said they would snog them it was

so weird and then they would get more at lounge just there would be these girls that kind of would have those like big fluffy snow boot things on and like they always always had 20 layers of fake tan on and it was so funny because even after the makeup it, you know how hard it is to get fake tan off. And especially if these guys have been fake tan for years, there's like 10 years worth fake tan that they're trying to get off in this like 20 minute video. It was a fake tan. It was like regional trends of young women like the scowlsprout and it's so classist looking like, so sneering. And then they'd end up like looking like Dorothy Perkins had like thrown up on them. It was so and they just basically like

it was a factory lineup of just the most like conformist women. And Oh, yeah, watching it back, like, it's not, like, no one won in that interaction. They all, none of them stuck with it. They're all like, oh, cheers. And like, back to the fake town. I weirdly rewatch that. I'm sure you can find it, Richard Jones on BBC 3, like, maybe like a few years ago. And I was flabbergasted at how brutal it is.

It's actually awful. And the second host of it is Ellie Taylor, who I really like, who was in... She's in Ted Lassow quite recently. But that was, like, I think that was her, like, one of her breakup things that she did hosting that. And I was really shocked. But anyway, Reto, you did for research. I think you need to get on that because you will be, yeah, shocked. Okay.

There is a good piece by Jordan Page for Digital, where they kind of like catch up with former contestants. And unsurprisingly, most of the contestants are like, yeah, it was miserable. It made me feel shit about myself. My self-esteem was completely rocked. Like the only positive things people have to say about appearing on that show was that it gave them a bit of like, you know, media experience. And they got to kind of like build a bit of a career off the back.

All of the other contestants were like, no, it was fucking horrible. and the transformations like were shit. It hasn't aged well. I mean, none of these shows have aged well, but that especially. No. And like I feel like of the bunch of them,

Gok Wans, How to Look Good Naked, is the best out of, you know, some of the like most horrendous, egregious examples of TV in our time. But when I was thinking about it, I was thinking about how,

while it definitely had good intentions and swings closer to the body positivity movement that we saw in the years after, I feel like it still has a really, shallow superficial impression of what makes somebody confident the idea is this you know gay man can come into your life shower with you compliments grab parts of your body and like scream that you're beautiful and then you know you'll get changing to some clothes and then you're suddenly meant to just feel like oh you know what all my issues all societies shaming of my body my face my race my skin tone

that that's just gone now and it has this like really well-intentioned but very superficial idea of you can just feel confident overnight with the right circumstances, i.e. showers of compliments. That's such a good point. It's like it's a societal, it's kind of it does. It individualises the problem and says, hey, look, confidence can solve this. And you go, no, we're talking about systemic issues here. And like it's such a veneer. Like that's such a good point that I just haven't kind of pieced together there. I guess the only show that maybe does do something slightly differently is the new iteration of queer eye for this. Because the, Queer I used to be called Queer Eye for the straight guy, the original one,

but they've dropped for the straight guy now, haven't they? And that show now, I haven't actually watched loads of it, but I know that they will go into their lives and they might like, it's quite holistic. They kind of like help talk about their relationship and they go into their home. And I mean, maybe there's never, is there such thing as like an ethical makeover show? But I'd say maybe that's the closest we're getting to some actual positive makeover that's an all-round impact.

Agreed. And it's nice to watch men get, and it's not just men on that show, but it's nice to watch men get makeovers. Like, men occasionally will get makeovers in the media. Like, there's a few films where it happens, and it's, you know, it's handled very differently, but it is really nice to watch men, men's lives be altered by, like, a soft touch and kind of like just someone showing care in them and, like, you know,

grooming habits. It's all really, like, here's how you basically groom yourself. It's not like, hello, fugly. We need to, you know, completely change that because you're a mess. It's quite nice. And like, I wasn't say there's no real modern makeup shows, but there's that. And there's, what was Chloe Kardashian's horrible? Revenge Body. So, like, they do still spring up these shows, which is so problematic.

She was like a year late with that show, though, because I think it came out in 2016, 2017. And it was just when I think anti-dart culture was kind of like coming into the mainstream. And she suddenly was like, revenge body with Chloe Kardashian. And I think it fell really flat. She actually really missed the sort of like culturally everyone had kind of been like, oh, I'm not sure if we're doing that anymore. One I want to talk about is America's next top model, the makeover sequence, which was, I think everybody's favorite part of the show, did you two watch that show? And was the makeover sequence, like, or the task, not the most bad shit thing you've ever seen?

Yes. Oh my God. It was sadistic. I'd be like 14 watching them. And I'd be like, just like smirking, being like, they're having tears and having breakdowns because they've cut all their hair off. And I was like snickering to myself just being like, so cruel and does reveal like how like, like how important it is or how like incredibly like mentally draining it can be to have a bad makeover. Because that's what was happening. Tyro Banks was engineering these women's downfall sometimes. And like it was actually psychologically scarring for them. And at the time I was like, well, it's just a haircut. But no, no, no.

Sadistic is so the word, Richard. Because it would be like this woman who had the most gorgeous long hair that she'd been growing since she was three. And then Tyra would be like, I think we should cut it into pixie crop and bleach it, which actually for modelling isn't like not useful for cattle because that's such a striking look. Like actually they want models with like plain hair, they can do different things with or whatever.

And she would just do it just, you could tell. She'd just shave off the head. She would just do, she made everyone's hair look different to what it was, but none of them look better. And she'd be like, this looks so good. And it would be like the haircuts in Edwards'isahans. And there was that one woman. who had the sew in and it was done poorly or something.

And she was in agony for weeks and weeks and weeks. And like it really just fucked her head up. And Tara was like, you've got to smile through it. You've got a smite through it. And obviously it was actually causing her deep trauma. That was exactly what I was going to bring up. She gave that, yeah, that white woman, a red weave. It was just, it was just crimes on crimes that show.

That show is fucking crazy. So as we've said with the. kind of rise of those plastic surgery TV shows. Now I think what's happening is it's not even that it's happening on TV, it's happening in our homes, in our friendship groups, Botox, filler, all of these kind of like small tweakments that you can get done and becoming so normalised that it's not even about the makeover anymore. It's about your everyday woman kind of wanting to wake up, always looking that makeover perfection. So it's kind of like your skin's great, you haven't got any wrinkles, you've got maybe some semi-permanent eyebrows or lip liner or something, so that actually

you're always looking kind of picture perfect. Would you say that's how makeover and glow culture has changed now? Is it that we are just trying to always be this like picture of perfection? I feel like the difference now is social media and I don't know, at least anecdotally, my Instagram is just full of not only just influences looking gorgeous and kind of extending what celebrity and fame is and what, you know, the metrics are for being beautiful and looking beautiful, i.e. that more people can do it. It's also just like over lockdown. I don't know if you had this, but my, my explore feed was like full of cosmetic surgery accounts that I had never followed, just like flooding my explore feed and having before and after pictures

of, you know, alleged people who'd come into their office. And it would just be like such a drastic change and that really got into my head all of this content all around me before and after people looking beautiful, the accessibility of these products and just like, I guess how close it is to me if I want to pay the money and if I want to make the jump. We've claimed to have like kind of democratised it and that like don't worry like now you can have it and here's why. Whereas actually what I think it is just it's just a product line basically. It is just another way to like it just ties into our mass consumption habits, which probably did get way worse over lockdown, you can glow up, but you have to buy this, this and this. You can glow up, but you do have to do it four,

five times in a year because otherwise you're out of trend. And then you're inherently, like, you haven't glowed up because you're not keeping up. So I think it's these kind of like micro glowups that are like really indicative of like this moment in time. It's not like, here's just this one glow up, there's one attitude change and you're made. It's like, okay, you've done this shift. You've got to do it season. You've got to do it like. It's so exhausting how many different ways it's packaged, whether it's like 75 hard or like the 25 day glow up or like the overnight glow up. There's so many ways now to have a makeover. I'm sure you guys would have read this piece by Gia Tolentino and the New Yorker that came out in 2019 that was called The Age of Instagram Face,

how social media face tune and plastic surgery created a single cyborgian look. And this is like massive piece that blew up and I think I don't know if it ended up being in trick mirror Gia's book or if it was taken from the book I can't remember which way around I think in lockdown as well what happened to us everyone was on Zoom all the time like looking at their own faces I feel like post lockdown then we saw this massive influx of people wanting to get more stuff done because we were looking at so many people online really stuck in our houses that our beauty ideals became that exact thing that Gia kind of almost prophesised in that piece which is like everyone's logged in.

everyone's looking at the same stuff and suddenly there is this face, which is kind of like taking a mixture of different things from different ethnicities and blending different kind of like beauty ideals from different eras and everyone wants to look the same. And it was when everyone was getting that, was it called like fox eye surgery and stuff? Do you think the Instagram face is still pertinent now? Because I feel like that was super 2019, 2020. I don't really feel as if that face, the amalgamation of, you know, big lips.

Indian, South Asian eyebrows, like East Asian eyes with the fox eyes, like a butter nose from whatever ethnicity that's from. I don't feel like that bit and pieced, quote unquote, perfect face that is, you know, not any real woman's face for most people is still the same thing. I think now the main thing is just trying to look wealthy by having all of these treatments. It's not one face. It's just about, I guess, spending an inordinate amount of money to look like luxury. It's also, I think it's optimization. It's getting things done so people know you can, but it's also optimising what you've got, which kind of sounds like it's like, well, work with your natural beauty, but it's not that because it is still a transformation.

And it is, I know people who do just kind of get work done, they kind of go, well, get my lips done. and that used to be something you do if perhaps you had lips that were, you know, smaller and you had, you know, a thinness. Now it is, I'm going to get lips done so it looks like I've got my lips done. And it's not Instagram face, but it's a third thing. It's maybe what you're talking about. It's done face. Yeah. It's definitely a secret third thing.

It's definitely this idea, I think, that women think, myself included, that if you get something done, then I'll be able to quit. Right. If I got, you know, maybe if I get a little bit of Botox. or maybe if I get a lip flip or maybe if I do this, then I won't have to worry about my face. Then I'll come up in the morning and think about something else first. You know, like first thing you do when you look at them or you think, oh, maybe if I get these things done, I'll hack the system.

And by hacking the system, I will then be able to like not spend as much time, money, energy, paying all this pink tax that I pay for being a woman and trying to be attractive. I think the converse happens. Like I have Botox. It's worn off now. and I am starting to wonder if I maybe need to not get it again because it's like a slippery, it's like anything once you start doing one thing, get used to it and then you think, oh, well maybe I could do this.

Like I've now had my eyebrows micbladed and like I've had a lip flip. I had lip for years ago but I had that dissolved. So I've like tried treatments. I'm not like super set in stone with any of them. But I can completely see how if I had the more money, it's also the time to pick it in is actually quite long. but if I was someone that was really wealthy and could like get someone to book in like loads of appointments

for all the time, it's actually, it's the opposite of what I initially said I thought it was going to be, which is like a way to save money and time and energy. It's actually just even more expensive way of paying into being attractive. Yeah. It's a new baseline that you give yourself.

And there's the kind of theory of like the hedonic treadmill, which is basically a human being's ability to just return to a baseline very quickly, even after like the thing that happened. or the thing that you do that you think this is going to make me so happy, like winning the lottery or like, you know, meeting the love of your life or getting, you know, face lift or whatever, you think,

well, then I'll reach this new estuement of happiness. Whereas actually the theory of the hedonic treadmill is, you do return to a baseline very quickly. And when you do return to that baseline, you've had the treatments, you go, I'll just get more because that did make me happy in the short term. And I do think there's this, like, if we keep doing these little mini makeovers, when they involve kind of cosmetic procedures,

needles and scalples, if that becomes your fixation, then you do think, well, I'll just do another one. I'll just keep making myself over. I'll just do this. And it does not make you happier. It does just drain your bank balance. Beauty has become work. And there is just an endless amount of work we can do to make ourselves more attractive. We, you know, in theory, talking about this, we could just give up the game completely. But that almost feels as if we're giving up on ourselves or giving up on, you know, life by not constantly striving to be more beautiful,

to constantly strive to like be the best versions of ourselves. My relationship to this whole topic is interesting because I feel like in the last few months, I realized before and after pictures had really messed with my brain. And I started looking in the mirror and like you said, and only just like looking at the bits of my face that I felt like needed stuff doing. And I kept thinking of myself as before and I kept thinking, oh, yeah, you know, when I am my better self, when I'm my more beautiful self, I'm going to do so much better in my career.

I'm going to feel so much better. Life's going to be better. Oh, I can't wait to be that person. It's going to be so good when I'm that person. And then I caught myself. And I've had to, you know, literally stop following all these surgery accounts, actively make choices to not consume this media because it really poisoned my brain and poisoned myself image.

And it honestly had gotten quite deep, to be honest. I don't know if this is a reach, but I experienced a similar thing where like I was looking at all these pages and I was like oh my God I didn't even know my face was flawed and then I remember really interrogating that and I realised that it was because when I was younger my fixation was always on my body and it was on a desire

to be super super thin and when I was younger it was like if a woman was very white and very thin she was the beauty standard even if actually her face now wouldn't be like I feel like our new fixation in the last decade has been on faces and specifically like the way a face can be perfect

as much as it is about bodies, it's almost like the face is more. Does that, I don't even know that I've explained that right, but it's like, I didn't used to think about my face really when I was younger. As long as I didn't have a spot, all I had about was like being thin. And then as I've gotten older,

it's suddenly like actually there's so many ways that my face is wrong, like my mouth slopsided or my, and by wrong, I'm saying inverted comments, like from what I've learned, it could be, it could be doing differently. Like my eyes could be pointing in a different direction. Not my eyeballs. My, my shoes.

look at it. But surely this has to do with how much, how often we look at our faces, not just, I mean, you know, in the mirror and reflective surfaces, but we are constantly looking at images of our face, the kind of trick mirror of social media. Like I look at my face so often. If you think like 50 years ago, you'd, you know, okay, I'm going to go back further than that, because that's actually the 80s. 150 years ago, you wouldn't be staring at your face. You know, you'd maybe walk past a puddle and you'd see it. And but that would be it. Now we are, we constantly see our own faces. We're so primed to nitpick. We're so primed to, and we see other people's faces as well. This horrifies me.

How many people's faces I see within my phone on TikTok, on however, we, I don't know who made this point, but we've never seen this many faces. We've never seen this many kind of like quote unquote above average attract. Activeness faces before in history. Of course it's going to do a number on the average woman's self-esteem or the average person's self-esteem to see this kind of volume of beautiful, interesting, you know, smooth-out faces. It seems like even more people should be kind of fucked up and running to the surgeon's office. I think is that that kind of social media effect of like that fucks us up.

I think with a topic like this is, you know, it's going to be hard to say that. there's a solution, but I wondered if you'd read that New York Times piece in 2019 from Megynolin. I feel like it went, you know, super viral. Speaking of the Tyro Banks, I remember she quote-tweeted the piece and said it made her think quite a lot about the messaging she'd put out there. It's called, why do we all have to be beautiful? In it, she talks about her own relationship to beauty and desperately trying to be beautiful. And then she writes, what if I tried something that has always been too frightening to think

about. What if I tried accepting that I will never be beautiful and that I do not need to be? Challenging social norms about who can be beautiful is vital work. And of course it's true the representations of beauty in the media are pathetically white, thin, able-bodied and hetero. And of course this should change. But somewhere along the way, the message of inclusivity went from quote-unquote, every kind of person can be beautiful to every person is beautiful. I'm increasingly convinced that this message isn't only less radical than we might like to believe, it's also harmful. She said, wouldn't it be freeing to admit that most people aren't beautiful? What if we just stopped prioritising, pleasing aesthetics above so much else?

And I remember at the time feeling like I had never heard anyone say that before. And even reading it now, you know, a few years on, I feel like we haven't, we still haven't absorbed that. If anything, it's just got further whittled down into you can hack yourself to being a better version of you if you just try hard enough if you spend more if you're you know not lazy but why why have we not accepted that not everything has to be about aesthetics oh it's so so true chills it's it's so good that piece to the point where sometimes I will be like having a really ugly day we all have them and I'm like I need to go to the shop and I am like oh but you can't go out looking like like who

cares I'm living in Paris don't even know anyone like the shop is five minutes away and I have to like almost remind myself like, why do you care? Like it doesn't, but it's so intrinsic in me. And I feel, I feel like ashamed saying that, but it's true. I genuinely be like, well, it'll just be mortifying to go outside looking like this. And that sounds so self-involved and so like hyper, like sensitive. But it's such a weird thing that actually there's somewhere like deep in my brain that I'm always performing, always thinking like I have to make sure that I'm like not like unbearable to look at for strangers. because that's like my duty is what I've been conditioned to do as a woman.

On the flip side, we then all harm each other by thinking this, like the royal we, by me feeling that way, then posting pictures on Instagram, who then make another, and this is like a Russian doll, which is never ending. And it's like no one really wants to break the cycle to the extent that we all, I mean, I think we tried it with feminism before, but like everyone's kind of started shaving their armpits again quietly

and being a bit like, you know what, actually I will get my dog talks. And we've kind of done the choice feminism. And it's like, it's, I think, that we're always going to have this like push and pull between these really honest conversations and then all just kind of where we get back to you, which is like actually is a bit more comfortable if I just get a wax and maybe like, you know, do get my highlights and stuff because life's easier when I feel more attractive. It's hard to be subversive.

I think that's that's the point. It is hard. And when subversive is as seemingly like inane as, you know, the chin hair or like, you know, kind of wearing no makeup or like whatever else it is. is like, it can feel like, well, if that's going to defeat me, then this is a lost cause. I might as well conform and feel more comfortable. I think we do just have to reckon with it on a personal level. Like, before you even think I'm going to solve this on a societal level,

you do just have to think on the personal level, what could be won by doing less? Because beautifying, making over its labour, it's labour that men, and I'm going to say this broadly, men don't have to do to the same degree. Obviously, men will argue that they have to go to the gym. They have to do basic grooming habits. we can get into that. That would be a whole other episode. But women are expected to do this and it's so expensive and it's so time consuming. And you kind of, if you think about it from a personal liberation front, you go, what can I do with my life? If I, if those hours are not spent waxing, even just

I was thinking about it, what could I conceive of? How much bigger would the world get? Like, I am not, like, I'm not going to solve these problems on any bigger level than myself, but I could maybe begin to wage that war a little bit. And maybe, you're putting your armpit up now. I can see on the, on the Zoom, maybe, you know, a bit of hair there could be like a small battle one. Yeah.

But the irony of all of this to go back to like the beginning in the conversation is, for pleasure, I could quite happily sit and drink a glass champagne, give myself a full makeover, do my hair, have a shower, wash it all off,

have everything showers, shave, everything, moisturise, have a cup of green tea, put cucumbers on my eyes and oh my God, I would have the, give me a whole evening just doing that by myself,

even showing anyone, not taking any pictures. And I would find, I don't know, is it conditioning? Is it that I genuinely am just, just finding pleasure in like the artistry of doing my makeup or like the kind of self-care of touching my body and moisturising? It's too entrenched in my joy. I definitely want to make the point that it can be, it can be, it's labour when it's expected over a lifetime, but it can be leisure and it can be like female bonding. I do think there's something very sacred in the makeover. And that's why we love them at the beginning, where we had this conversation. I think, yeah, like, I want to be really careful and really, like, clear that I don't think it's just this, like, hideous evil, like, beauty and feminine, like, practice femininity.

I do just think there's, it's, they just both exist, like, so close. It's so frustrating sometimes, because I'm like, why am I doing this? Who was I made for, Billy Eilish? The other element, which we haven't gone into loads is just, like, there is also discrimination if you don't keep up with this. So, yeah, I could, you know, let my eyebrows go rampant. I could not shave my armpits. I could just like turn up in gym clothes to work. But the reality is no one's going to fucking promote me if that happens.

And also, you know, there's been much rightly said about black women and their hair and the kind of discrimination they face in mostly white working offices and workplaces. So I think that it is labor because part of your brain also acknowledges that you have to keep up, to keep appearances like you said and only. But like there is also a side of it that can be enjoyable. But I think it's the part that feels like you're falling behind. Like when I haven't got time to wash my hair and I put it in a bun and I feel gross. And part of me worries how it's going to look to other people.

I think what I find so hard is what you're saying about the two things meeting Beth is like, I do have all of these pleasures. Then I get this guilt because I think God like is this for me? And I always try to imagine like if I was on a desert island, would I shave? Obviously not. I'd have a fully grim bush. I don't live on an island so like I don't know how and also have tried to grow a bush before and it gets itchy as how there is there is as a side note there's reasons why you know some grooming

is that it does feel better but yeah god the old eternal question of the bush to bush or not to bush it does also fall down to class because the more many you have the more you can outsource much of this labour of keeping up so you know getting a wax appointment getting somebody to like rip all the hair off you rather than having to do that in your private time outside of working hours and yeah getting your hair done and all these things i feel like part of the reason it feels like labor is because it's also fucking expensive when you don't have the money to afford all the things you want to do for yourself oh the other thing they that's so layered and so complicated about this as well is like with the class and beauty and beauty signifiers it's like the wealthy you are the more you can

afford to make it look like you haven't paid to have the work done. Whereas you might find that like a massive class signifier or people perceive people to be of say different class if their work is very obvious. Like if their lips are a certain size or their hair has been done in a certain way. So it's like you could be spending the same amount of money and it not have the same effect because of these other kind of like silent more insidious ways that we it's created like a whole new system of like how we judge people and like what is. beauty because not only can you like have the privilege to be able to afford to get work done but you could get it

done like in the wrong in Vertical's way. Yeah, you want to be beautiful you don't want to look like you've tried too hard. If it's obvious you've tried then it's gauche. That's kind of the messaging we have at the moment I feel. Exactly because even if people know you've had work done they'll be like she's had work done but it looks so good but then say someone had work done it look bad. Both of those people have had work done both those people have the same

intentions but if one person's had it done and they don't look good it's like how embarrassing for her when actually that's so mad. And it's how extreme, like, if you start with, like, a bone structure, like, you know, if you start with Eurocentric, very commonly accepted features and looks, like, it's, it's not a big leap to get from A to be. It's, like, a few procedures versus someone who, you know, is seeking beauty from a point where, like, you know, bone structure and things like that, like, are never going to, like,

it's just, it's never a level playing field when something is so nebulous as, as female beauty. Yeah, and it's never going to be a level. playing field when so much of our beauty standards come from, you know, a post-colonial attitude. And many of the brown and black features and faces that we have just don't fit into that beauty standard or nor do, you know, non-slim bodies. And even like it's so wild to me whenever I go on X and someone's posted like, I visited this country and in this country, this thing about me that in the UK everyone thinks is awful everyone loves and then you're like oh my gosh this thing

this is why ideology is so interesting because it feels so fixed so true so real the only reality that exists and that is literally just on this tiny little island then you fly go somewhere else and they'll think you know that so and so's butters and someone else is you know the most beautiful person I've ever seen I feel really like fired up I do I feel like you cross I don't know I feel cross but in quite an empowered way like you know I feel smart

but also more upset. It's making me want to get lip filler again. No, that's not the point of this. No, I'm joking. Let's all go together. Let's all have low-ups. Let's go. I do think, like, how beauty and makeup

everything is tied into a fear of aging. With women, it always comes down to, like, basically hiding all visible signs of aging. That's what we understand in, like, a really crude way to be beauty. So next week, shall we do an aging episode? Yes. I have so much to say.

at my old age of 30. I would say careful, because I'm also, I'm about to turn 31 as well, so as the elder statesman off the, off the trio, tread carefully. Do you know what you're so, everything is just to try and make us

look as like fertile as possible. So it's like the boringier, the breasts, the boringier, the bum, the more kissable, the lip, the more youthful, the looking, the riper, the woman.

Then none of this is a sentence. It's like a hykeet? It's pretty much. It could be. someone write that down well we've got loads to say so make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss it and see you next week for our special on aging bye everything is content is a great original podcast and we're part of the acast creator network this podcast was created devised and presented by us beth mccol richurashama and anoni the producer is faye lawrence and the executive producer is

james norman fife