Everything Is Content - Olivia Petter - author of Gold Rush and Millennial Love: Everything In Conversation

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

Join Beth, Ruchira and Oenone in conversation with the brilliant journalist, podcaster and author Olivia Petter. Olivia’s debut novel Gold Rush is out now - it’s a story about consent, celebrity culture and trying to work out where women fit in a world that constantly devalues and disrespects their bodies... sounds right up our street, eh?!We all loved the book and in this conversation we get stuck into our burning questions for Olivia - but don’t worry, the conversation is spoiler-free if you haven’t finished the book yet. As a note of caution, this conversation does contain references to sexual violence and violence against women. We have had some illness in the team this week, so thank you for bearing with us. We think you're going to love this chat - and we’ll be back with the usual this time next week! Follow Olivia on Instagram @OliviaPetterGold Rush is out now - you can buy your copy here!__THE TIMES: ‘Blackout sex’ is rife. I should know, it happened to meBBC IPLAYER: I May Destroy YouKATE ELIZABETH RUSSELL: My Dark Vanessa ELIZABETH GILBERT: Big MagicTATE: Three Studies for Figures at the Base of a CrucifixionELIZABETH FLOCK: The Furies—Follow us on Instagram:@everythingiscontentpod @beth_mccoll @ruchira_sharma@oenone ---Everything Is Content is produced by Faye Lawrence for We Are GrapeExec Producer: James Norman-FyfeMusic: James RichardsonPhotography: Rebecca Need-Meenar Artwork: Joe Gardner  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, Beth speaking. Coming to you with a small announcement. So we've had some illness in the team, nothing serious, don't worry, but it does mean we couldn't record as usual. We are gutted not to be debriefing everything together. Stormzy and my hijama breaking up, the suspected love triangle between Madeline Argy, Central Sea and I Spice, Margot Robbie in her mid-era, e.g. pregnant, plus India's richest family, the Ambani's, throwing a reported $600 million doll hair wedding with both Tony Blair and the Kardashians in attendance. Just imagine them in line at the buffet together.

Incredible, incredible scenes. Do stay listening though, because we have instead got an interview with the brilliant Olivia Petter, whose debut novel, Gold Rush, came out this week. We think you're going to love it. And don't worry, we'll be back as normal next Friday with a big juicy episode where we catch up on everything new in the pop culture universe. If they have a particularly good publicist, which most of these people do, it's really hard to think about them in a way that they don't want you to think about. Then you give them the ability to act with total impunity.

I'm Beth. I'm Ruchira. And I'm Anoni. This is our podcast, Everything Is Content, where we get together with you to do our favourite thing, diving into pop culture discourse. Today we have another very special episode of Everything In Conversation for you. We're going to be chatting to Olivia Petter.

Olivia is a journalist, author and broadcaster. She's written for the Sunday Times, British Vogue, Grazia and she's the Independence in-house relationships writer and host of its chart topping podcast. She's also a very good friend of the podcast. and she's the independence in-house relationships writer and host of its chart-topping podcast she's also a very good friend of the podcast olivia wrote her first book millennial love in 2021 and her debut novel gold rush is out now we all love the book and we can't wait to hear olivia talk about it but just to let you know this conversation contains references to sexual violence. Hi Olivia, welcome to Everything Is Content. Congratulations on the publication of Gold Rush. Oh thank you so much, I'm so happy to be here. I listen to you guys every week so I am very very thrilled to be a part of the podcast. Thank you

for having me. We are so happy to have you here. I'm so sorry about my voice. Olivia understands because she was also at Classroom so we have all read Gold Rush we're very lucky to get little pre-copies obviously it's out now as you're listening but for people who perhaps haven't pre-ordered a copy haven't got one yet do you want to give us a little plotted synopsis on what Gold Rush is about yeah so Gold Rush is about a girl in her mid-20s called Rose. She works in the press office of a glossy magazine company. It's set in the summer of 2017. Her job is to essentially do PR for all of these big glossy monthly magazines and that involves going to a

lot of parties where there are big celebrities that she has to interact with and look after on the night and it's at one of those parties where she meets a charismatic charming very famous musician called Milo Jacks and they spend that evening together they strike up a kind of quite unlikely flirtation they then have a night together and Rose wakes up the following morning unable to remember how it ended and unable to kind of piece together what happened and he's not there anymore. And the rest of the novel is kind of about Rose trying to get in touch with this incredibly famous man

to figure out what happened that night. So if anyone's read the book, you'll know kind of why it's set, when it's set, 2017. How did you take yourself back in time to 2017 to kind of set the book what people say how people act what was that sort of process like I actually did quite a lot of digging into the year I kind of went back through like year summaries in the news and kind of looked at all of the big headlines of 2017 and kind of went through all the big things that

people were talking about and my god it was a crazy year there was a lot that happened in that year um and so I was kind of going into all of that and then I looked at what the most popular films were at the time what the most popular songs were just to kind of get a sense of of the zeitgeist at that time because obviously the world that the novel is set in the kind of like PR celebrity world is so rooted in that and rooted in pop culture so I wanted to have a very strong idea of of the kind of like PR celebrity world is so rooted in that and rooted in pop culture so I wanted to have a very strong idea of the kind of cool hot things at that time so that's kind of how I went about doing that and there's quite a few references to things like that throughout the book to give people that idea. Was it also to avoid Covid? Oh yeah I mean to be honest with you I've

read I've read a few books that mention COVID and have the pandemic in it and I just think it's so bum out and you really hate it it really is yeah I don't know about you guys but I'm not ready to read about that yet I think it was literally like last year I mean it wasn't but it feels like it was just last year so I mean yeah I to be honest if I I mean I've started writing something else as well and that will intentionally not be set during COVID or post COVID i'm just i'm not really sure if i'd ever want to write about it not now anyway i feel like maybe in like 10 years can we be cheeky what are you working on so i mean i've literally just started it i've got like

5 000 words but i would say it is more of a workplace drama uh and it's more about a relationship because I remember when people started asking me about my debut novel they were like oh is there any love in there and I realized no and I obviously I write so much about love and dating and relationships so that's very much something that I want to focus in on the next book. So your first book Manual Love which is non-fiction which is also based off your amazing podcast how was the transition going from being a journalist writing about real world issues into writing a fictionalized world did you enjoy that process do you prefer it? I think I definitely preferred it because you can be so much more creative obviously there's so much more freedom but also a lot of people who've

read Gold Rush have said to me that it feels very issue driven and I think for people who are familiar with my journalism and the subjects I cover in that that all comes through quite strongly in the book it's it's very much for me it's a different medium through which to communicate about the things I care about it's just a different lens and I think in some ways you know particularly when it comes to violence against women when you're just reading the news and you're just reading stats and figures and it's so depressing and so bleak and it's quite easy to dissociate from the reality of that and what it's like to go through those those sorts of things so I think actually that's where pop culture comes in in a really helpful way in terms

of educating people around the nuance of how these sorts of issues manifest and how they affect people and you know we've seen that before in pop culture like I made a story of such a huge inspiration for me and I think that show taught so many people about what sexual violence actually is and how it happens and how it impacts people and sexual trauma so I think it can be such a powerful tool so yeah I mean I'm loving it it's it's so much fun but it's a totally different part of my brain to to the journalism stuff it's like a totally different exercise I was gonna say a lot of female authors especially with their debut novels always kind of get the question of like is it based on your personal life are the main characters based on your personal life I was wondering do you find

that question offensive what what do you feel about that it depends so by the time this podcast comes out there will be quite a few articles I've written that talk about the bits of the book that are inspired by my personal life and my personal experiences and I'm happy to share that in that medium when it's me writing a piece with my own words and I'm given the space to do that but when a stranger I meet at a party asks me oh you're writing a novel that's cool what's it about and I tell them it's not really that you know party chat it's kind of heavy and I'll be like oh it's kind of about sexual trauma and you know this woman meets a musician and I tell them the story and they're like oh so god do you mind me asking is that is that a real story and I'm like dude I've just met you and you're asking me if I've

been raped like it's really it's really strange so I find that odd and it is mostly men that go straight in for the juggler and ask me those questions straight up so i do find that odd and i do think it is something that only female novelists really get asked and i remember i spoke to megan nolan about this as well with her first book acts of desperation which is about a really abusive relationship and she was asked so many times so were you in an abusive relationship and it's just by strangers on like live radio and stuff you know and it's just like what gives you the right to ask them that I feel like if you're not being upfront about it and you're not offering that information then it's just a really strange thing and I remember the other big example that I always think about with this issue is Kate Elizabeth Russell who wrote My Dark Vanessa which is such a brilliant book you made me read that book it was so good I think

it came out in 2017 and it's about a young girl being groomed by her teacher and it was like a best-selling book. It did so well and there was so much chatter around whether or not that book was inspired by her own experience and the noise around that got so loud that Kate Elizabeth Russell issued a statement. Like she felt compelled to issue a statement saying,

okay, yes, this is partly inspired by an experience I had I'm sad that I feel the need to say this and I just thought that's so devastating I think always go with the assumption that someone's writing fiction from some personal point of personal knowledge it might have happened to them but maybe it's someone they know so it just seems really ignorant to ask but it also then I think it makes it dangerous because then people conflate sort of like what is true and what's not also assumes that women's imaginations are sort of quite sparse we can imagine things we can create entire worlds like someone who's written like you've written a book that is fucking long and fucking gorgeous like to assume oh she's just pulled this straight from like

the memory hole like I just think it is very like it's very gendered and I hate that for you I find it weird though as well because another part of me is almost like it's very gendered and I hate that for you I find it weird though as well because another part of me is almost like they want you to say that it's personal experience and then sort of the implication is if you turn around and say no I just made it all up then it loses its value somehow and that I just find so strange you're kind of like in a lose-lose situation yeah what I found so interesting about this book is you kind of know what's happened from the beginning and yet it's such a compulsive read how much were you moving around the narrative did it come out in that order as you were writing it or did you have to think actually I'm gonna keep this back a bit and then add that in or so I am not a planner I wish I was you know I hear

about novelists who have documents and post-it notes and spreadsheets and all sorts of softwares I just don't operate that way I think I had a rough idea about where the story was going to go and I knew that I was going to explore sexual trauma I had a few key scenes that I knew I wanted in the book so there's a dinner party scene that I knew I wanted to include and then a hen do scene those were very early on things that I knew I wanted to have in there I didn't know at what point they were going to come in the novel but the way that I wrote it and it sounds pretentious but bear with me it's the only way I can describe it is that it would be like stepping into the world of the novel pressing play and just seeing what happens and then just

writing it down and those first couple of drafts, like, wouldn't be well written. It was more just me kind of figuring out the plot, and kind of observing the characters, and just seeing what they did, and writing it down. And it all just came quite organically. I wrote it pretty chronologically, purely because the idea of not doing it chronologically makes my brain hurt.

And even doing it chronologically, like, there was still so many... I mean, thank God for copy editors, because there were so many things where it was like oh you've done this already you've repeated this this character actually has a different name here so many things like that so it's so chaotic but you know I would just kind of go from start to finish and then go back from start to finish again and again and again until that process got shorter and shorter and shorter that's so interesting because one thing I did think when I was reading this book the ending and I'm going to tread very carefully because a lot of people will be reading the book I'm going don't fucking ruin

it the ending as it is did you know because it's such a powerful ending did you know this is how it's going to end or did that come later when you decided or when it kind of you press play and that happened when did that come so it that came later and it was so funny because I remember when I had the brainwaves about how it was going to end or like you know certain key moments in the book I remember I would either call my agent or like a really good friend and like I figured it out and I remember one walk in particular I think I'd just done therapy which was somewhere in Fulham and then I was walking home and I remember one walk in particular I think I'd just done therapy which was somewhere in Fulham and then I was walking home and I lived about an hour and a half away and it was raining

and I was walking I was getting really excited I called my agent I was just like okay I've got it and I was just like and then this and this and this and this and then she was like okay write it it would kind of like come in like these moments and we get like so excited but yeah those things don't come to me very naturally and you know I think when I'm writing something like this I'm constantly living in the world of the book so sometimes I'll be sitting at my laptop writing a chapter and I'll get stuck and I'll leave it for like I don't know a couple days or whatever and then the thought will come to like that sounds like the most natural thing in the world you let it cook and then it will just grow and tell you like that's how it feels like Elizabeth Gilbert talks about this in

big magic she's like you know creativity these ideas come to you like they are given to you and that is always how it has felt for me and I think her whole thesis is you know if you are given one of these ideas and you don't use it, someone else will use it. A graveyard of ideas or whatever she calls it. That stresses me out so much about losing an idea. I get so possessive over them because of that. It is true. That would have happened to me.

I've had such a good idea. I've not got the time, the inclination to do it. And like a month later, you'll be like, oh, that was the book I was going to write. Okay. I love fashion and I love fame and I'm really obsessed with kind of celebrity so you're like drawn in by all these sweet shiny sweeties and you're like yeah you pick and mix and then it's like so it's funny because you're like you're drawn in and you can't escape but then it feels so real how anxiety inducing is it for you if you're in it as well because there's

times when I had to close the page so I was like oh I don't like this and I felt like at points it was happening to me yeah yeah I mean it felt like it was happening to me when I was writing it there are some scenes in the novel that are so hard to write and really like physically and emotionally and spiritually draining because for me it does feel so real

it's weird like I swear to god I had moments where I was writing this and I thought and I got confused I was like did that actually happen well my text him was like did this like I know but there are some things weirdly there are some things that are in the book that have since happened to me since I wrote them and I've reacted the way that it's very odd so meta yeah there are really some things that have happened so it's very I told you manifestation is very dangerous can I ask because it's out now that you mentioned that there's going to be a piece that's out at the time we're recording that is

about a personal experience could you tell us what that is so the piece is about blackouts and sexual assault because that is what happens to Rose and it's it's essentially about something that happened to me in 2020 and I think it's an interesting thing that I wanted to write about because it's something that is very traumatic to go through and very difficult to go through. But it's not really an experience that's like legitimized as sexual assault in any way by society. If anything, it's the opposite. You know, if you look at the way that blackouts from drinking and sex are conveyed in popular culture, if you look at a film like I think in the piece, one of the things I reference is, God, what's that really stupid film with McLovin?

What is that? Oh, Super, Super Bad. Super Bad. If you look at, I do like that film. It's funny, but there are some really stupid things in it. And anyway,

there is one bit in the trailer where Jonah Hill is talking to, what's his name? Michael Cera. And he's like, you know when girls get really drunk and then they wake up the next morning like oh why did i fuck that guy we could be their mistake yeah and you know what i mean it's like it's a funny thing if you have sex with someone and you

don't remember it because you were too drunk it's like lol and actually that can be a really traumatizing experience for you because the law says that if you have sex with someone and you don't remember it you weren't in a position to consent therefore it's rape and that's not something that I knew until it happened to me and I ended up calling the police and that's what they told me and I was really shocked I ended up not reporting it because it's a long story that I explained in the piece but it was months after it actually happened I reported it and the police said if you report it you know you've got no evidence it's been months since it happened

and then this this guy will know that you've accused him of rape and he knows your name and he knows you're out there because they would have to call him in for a video interview and call me in for a video interview and that's how the process works

and they were like do you really want to go through with that I was like nope so it's really depressing that this is the way our legal system works but that is why I think it's something like 70% of rape survivors who report it drop out of the legal system when they're going through that so anyway that's what the piece is about and that's kind of the experience

that inspired the novel because it's one of those things that people just don't really talk about with the nuance that is required and as a result you wind up questioning yourself and your own experience and that can be incredibly difficult and isolating thank you for sharing that yeah thank you also i have to say we've spoken about this so many times libya and i were at school together but we would go to parties with our friends and a lot of the girls we'd get blackout we wake up the next day and we were like did we get with that guy and it was never about them it was always like shit i think so and so touched me or like something and we literally until maybe like five years ago did we all go wait a minute we were passed out but we

never thought it was anyone's fault apart from us we were like we got too drunk we've got to stop getting so drunk at these parties it was just always the onus was on us and that we were the mess yeah it's interesting the second layer in this is there's an element of fame and i think fame is this cover it is this total protection at this place we use the word parasocial all the time you know to mean like a relationship that goes one way between fan and famous person what do you think needs to change in terms of how we relate to famous people and how our celebrities now can kind of move without consequence I just think we have such a strange relationship with celebrities and I think it's got stranger since the pandemic a small example of this is that you look at Demois the celebrity Instagram account

that posts gossip about celebs and I get it it's addictive it's interesting it's fun but the stuff it's posting is like sightings of where these people are having their coffee who they're having dinner with and it's like it's real surveillance and I just think that is really screwed up and I think we really dehumanize these people on every level and I think that has real consequences because when you dehumanize someone particularly if they have a really good reputation like the musician in my book does then you give them the ability to act with total impunity if they have a particularly good publicist which most of these people do it's really hard to think about them in a way that they don't want you to think about and I find that really fascinating I think the onus is on us

in terms of how much power we give these people because we are the ones who are following Demois and watching those stories and we are the ones who are obsessing over who's dating who and who's sleeping with who and and it's really violating and you know I have I have friends that are in the public eye who have dealt with this stuff and it's awful you see the way that it impacts people and I think you have to have a really strong network around you in order to not let yourself turn into a monster when you're being treated like that you know I feel so bad for is Paul Maskell because out of every celebrity I think he tries to be so normal yeah it's like a zoo like all these celebrities

like that's why they have to go and I mean mean, I don't know where they go, but they go on their jets and they go there. Where do they go? I'm always trying to find them. No, I'm just kidding. So one of the things that I really loved about the book was how you marry art. It's quite difficult to write about art in fiction. I think Rachel Kask is a person that does this really well.

And I feel like you had this weird awakening. Can you tell the story? Because I remember you telling me this was you were writing the book and then you went to go and see this piece and then you were like oh my god this is exactly what I'm trying to describe so I knew I wanted to make her an artist because I have read so many things but I hate writing novels about writers I'm sick of reading writers writing about writers so I can't make her a writer so but I knew that she needed to have this job in the press office but have another kind of creative outlet um and

so for me it was always going to be painting because I used to love painting when I was at school and you know you and I used to do it all the time and only so my favorite artist is Francis Bacon and there is a point in the book I kind of always knew I wanted to reference this one specific painting which is three stages of a crucifixion which is a triptych and it's three anamorphic figures and they kind of get progressively more and more grotesque and violent and I kind of weaved it in I think in quite a late stage edit of the book actually and it just felt right in the kind of context I was using it in and then later I actually went to the Tate Britain which is where that triptych is permanently in the collection by the way Tate Britain in London is free go view the

permanent collection it's amazing like no one really knows about that it's so good and so I went and I just stood in front of the painting and I was looking at it and it really makes you feel so uncomfortable looking at it because it's so violent and strange and the last figure is like bearing these teeth and like their mouth is like wide open and it's like you can look at it and hear it screaming it's so good and so powerful anyway I then looked up on the side where it kind of has a little bit of information about it. And it said that that painting is inspired. Well, there's lots of different theories about, you know, what it was inspired by. But one of the theories is that it was inspired by the against men who committed crimes against the natural order and specifically crimes against women. So it was a very cool link. And I saw that and I was like, wow, this is so great. And on the note of the Furies, I just think this stuff is so interesting.

I read an amazing book recently. I interviewed the author elizabeth flock it's called the furies and it's about three real life cases of women who have fought back in the state in in the face of violence it's so good but anyway i'm obsessed with greek mythology as well so i was like this is so cool it was so cool i love that story because he responds every time so what advice would you give to a young writer or anyone struggling to get words on the page so my advice for any young writers would be very simply just to write but that is not particularly helpful but what I mean by that is to for me I have to set myself small achievable goals in order to make writing a novel seem possible because a novel is you know 90,000

to 100,000 words it's incredibly overwhelming um so for me I kind of separated out into stages and I think set yourself little goals so you could just say right in a month's time I'm gonna have 3,000 words and that's fairly achievable and you just have the first 3,000 words of something. Because in order to write a novel, you just need to start writing and overcome the fear and also take away your ego and just be like, whatever I put down on the page in those first few instances is just not going to be good. It's not going to be good and that is fine.

It never is. Every writer I know, when they start writing anything, particularly novelists, they hate it and they they think why am I doing this you're so stupid how could you do this everyone does this even like the most successful novelist like David Nichols does this everyone hates it in those first few drafts so you just have to get over it and start writing and have faith and know that it will get better and better and better as soon as you figure out what it is that you're doing so take the leap of faith because if you have an idea it's worth figuring out what it is and realizing it on the page that's my advice that's so reassuring so

olivia where can we get the book where can we see you next what will you be up to in the next few weeks so the book is available in all good bookstores and online all online bookstores I think I hope um and I'm doing a few events uh around the UK over the next few weeks there is one I think on the 24th of July at the Trouble Club there's one 26th that's in Waterstones and then I'm going to Edinburgh and West Kirby later on in August the best thing to do is to just to check my Instagram and I've got like a little tour sticker which tells you everywhere that I will be going to talk about the book but please do come along I'd love to meet you and I'd love to tell you more about the book in person

you can follow Olivia on Instagram at Olivia Petter and you can chat to us there and on tiktok at everything is content pod bye everything is content is a great original podcast and we are part of the acast creator network this podcast was created devised and presented by us beth mccall richira shama and anoni the producer is faye lawrence and the executive producer is james norman fife created, devised and presented by us, Beth McCall, Ruchira Sharma and Anoni. The producer is Faye Lawrence and the executive producer is James Norman Fyfe.