Everything Is Content - Scotland's Fyre Festival

Episode Date: March 1, 2024

Treat yourself to one jellybean and half a cup of lemonade as we head into the AI Wonka Hellscape - prepare to be captivated by an audio spectacle! This week on the podcast, join Beth, Ruchira and Oenone as we discuss Reformation’s new supermodel, a bawling Taylor Swift fan and the very sad closure of our beloved Vice. —WILLY’S CHOCOLATE EXPERIENCE (link still live at time of posting) INDEPENDENT: Angry Oompa Loompas and no chocolateROLLING STONE: Huckster Behind ‘Willy Wonka’ Event Also Sells AI-Written Vaccine Conspiracy BooksELLE: Monica Lewinsky on Becoming a Fashion Campaign Star at 50ROLLING STONE: ‘I’m Laughing Along’: Taylor Swift Fan From Viral Exile Video Thinks It’s Funny TooOBSERVER: I used to be ashamed of being a fangirlTIKTOK: IHOP Happy DanceTHE GUARDIAN: Why angry ‘anti-fans’ turn on the influencers they once lovedHANNAH EWENS: Fangirls THE GUARDIAN: Vice’s cunning, irreverent journalism is deadRYAN BRODERICK: Tiktok is for millennials, it turns outVICE: What Your Choice of Crisps Says About You VICE: Ovum Easy, PleaseVICE: Westminster Dog Show… on acid! VICE: How Dublin Celebrated the 48-Hour Legal Ecstasy Loophole—Follow us on Instagram:@everythingiscontentpod @beth_mccoll @ruchira_sharma@oenone ---Everything Is Content is produced by Faye Lawrence for We Are GrapeExec Producer: James Norman-FyfeMusic: James RichardsonPhotography: Rebecca Need-Meenar Artwork: Joe Gardner  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

okay great should we podcast? no okay then no best not I'm finished I'm Beth I'm Ruchira

and I'm Anoni we live and breathe pop culture so every week we get together and deep dive into all the top pop culture stories we are the scented candor in the stinky bathroom of content. On today's episode, we'll discuss the closure of Vice, RIP, and yet another Taylor Swift viral video. Get over to our Instagram at everythingscontentpod

where we round up what we've spoken about on each episode there. We love hearing what you guys think. So DM, comment, et cetera, et cetera. Whether you agree, disagree vehementemently we want to hear from you as always let's start the podcast with our faves from this week what have you been loving beth i have been loving the willy wonka immersive experience unfolding on the internet do you guys know what i mean i do i wish i didn't, but I do. Do you and Oney?

I do, but I haven't actually deep dived. So I've only seen surface levels. This is such a shame. This is such a shame because my timeline is so vibrant because it's like global news now. People from Canada, the Americas, Asia, all talking about Glasgow for quite a stressful reason for like the Glasgow tourism board the Wonka immersive exhibit experience was a 35 pound ticketed event where families were encouraged to bring their children to celebrate the new Wonka film and to kind of get into the world the magical world of

Willy Wonka and what they got what they promised I'm going to open the website because what they were promised and what they got was very very different it's giving fire festival but yes it's Scotland's fire festival that's so true it's so interesting to say this because the cut actually covered this and the title of the cuts article was welcome to fire first one for edition I'm not joking I genuinely hadn't seen that so you've got your minds alike with the great journalists of our time what it was promised to be was an enchanted garden with giant sweets, an imagination lab.

And this is from the website. Prepared to be captivated by a visual spectacle, encounter mind-expanding projections, optical marvels, a surreal journey where the boundaries between reality and fantasy harmoniously merge. It was a surreal journey, I will say reality and fantasy harmoniously merge now if you've seen the pictures it is not quite that they've done sweet fa they've got like a couple

of rubbery looking decals on the wall there's some balloons there's like a ball pit did you see the awful and palumpas that look like they're going through something very very bad in their lives really sad like this kind of woman at a table which is covered in like shit science experiment stuff she's got this like little green wig on she is staring into the middle distance like harrowed expression like she i think she spoke to the press and she was like listen i didn't know it's gonna be this shit i was humiliated i was talking to these parents being like i'm pretty sorry i'm so sorry this is happening did you also see i saw oh who was it i think oh no it was rolling stone revealed today that the mastermind behind all of this

basically he's been putting out like ai conspiracy theory books on like vaccine misinformation that is so i mean it makes total sense when you see this all these pictures they use ai and all the promotional experiences and they were like i get even sucked in by those ai images do you never see kind of like the architectural ones on instagram and you're like oh my god this home in the middle of the forest is so beautiful and i'll be staring at it and i'm like oh it's the ai like it does take you a minute to like get that it's not real and it was same with this like the website is still up and i would recommend we can we can link if it's still up i would recommend looking because like the pictures there's like a bear with it looks like a normal bear and you're going he's kind of got like a front bum

and like chicken legs and like the language they use so they promise cartry tons sorry what a pass a dice of sweet teats what what are you saying life performances that's a real word uh lightning dim tight depractions dim tight dojection so like they've just generated like words that obviously are fake and you just you don't do that second look and i was like hang on what is an exadre lollipop i've just seen a piece in the independent that says angry impalimpa and no chocolate wonka actor breaks his silence on willie's chocolate i need you guys to know more about this like it's it's so important to me they were saying that the kids were walking around and it was just so bleak that they were just crying they were allowed like

a small cup of lemonade and a single jelly bean which was it you or someone that quoted someone that said everyone keeps being like oh my god AI is going to take over the world but it keeps just making art this is pure art oh it's amazing it makes me so proud for my like scottish heritage um we did have a message from aditi on instagram who said that this is reminiscent of the 85 pound grinch we spoke about in like episode one or two it is just chaos on a budget and i'm living for it if i had kids i've not seen the new wonka but i was obsessed with the old wonka and if there was a possibility of spending 35 pounds to go into a world do you remember those buttercups on the wall that you could like bite they were like no daffodils were they do you remember in the

original Wonka yeah they're like flowers and he'd like bite oh I would have paid that and I would have been scammed stuff like that they were like you go and pick the growing beans no you get one single jelly bean and then you have to go home also lemonade it's not even very like I don't get like a little half garb yeah what is go home. Also lemonade. It's not even very like. I don't get like a little half cup. Yeah. What is the relevance of the lemonade? I don't know. Oh, it's so sad.

But anyway, this has been, I hope this news cycle never ends because it's been like a bright spot on my whole week. Oh, speaking of like things that aren't meant to be comedic, but are, can I just talk about Madame Webb? Please do. Yeah. Because what is going on here? I mean, I can't tell you that, but I can tell you I watched the film and it's the hardest I've laughed in so long. Can you get, what is going on here i i mean i can't tell you that but i can tell you i watched the

film and it's the hardest i've laughed in so long can you get what is it what is it about i know i know it's dakota johnson that's about as far as i've got yeah so it's in the spider world universe what spider-man universe um it's not related to marvel which is something i learned unexpectedly last week i didn't even realize that. So basically, Sony owns the Tobey Maguire version of Spider-Man. They lent Spider-Man to Marvel for the Tom Holland version, which is, you know, the Avengers style version of it all. This one, I don't want to give an Easter egg away, but basically it is related to the original Spider-Man and like explain some of the story. It's in that world.

But the whole thing is just mental. The script bizarre all of it is so ridiculous there's a villain who talks like he's like I will defeat the world I am going to pay you a fortune if you help me how is the how's Dakota because Florence Pugh my fave's in it as well isn't she no she's not in it Sydney Sweeney is in it maybe that's who you're thinking of sure Florence Pugh, my fave's in it as well, isn't she? No, she's not in it. Sydney Sweeney is in it. Maybe that's who you're thinking of. Sure, Florence Pugh's not in it. No, Florence Pugh is in it. Florence Pugh is in The Black Widow?

But yeah, no, the whole thing is mad. Dakota Johnson is fine. She is just so sardonic and so sarcastic throughout the whole thing. The storyline doesn't make sense. Her second name is Webb and her mum worked on spiders. Nobody references that once, which i think is insane wouldn't you be like oh haha yeah my mum worked on spiders what does working with spiders i don't know what working on or working with spiders is she her mum worked in the amazon with and on spiders that's all i know i have read horrible

reviews of it like really like dog shit which makes me want to go and see it I honestly think it's gonna be a bit of a cult classic with an online group of people calling it so bad it's good but I did read something today that said that that hasn't translated into the box office it has been a massive flop do you think if you were like 16 would you have thought it was good no I think it's only funny because I went in with a friend and we were like, oh, this is going to be a pile of shit. Right.

Can I kind of sidetrack and just talk about Dakota Johnson? Yeah, let's talk about her. Do you remember, was it last year or the year before the cut did the massive Nepo baby? Yeah. Beginning of last year,

end of 2022, I remember because we talked about it separately. Yes. It was like a really big... Mind map. Mind map of like how everyone's related like who's who Dakota Johnson kind of comes from a dynasty of actresses actors her mum is Melanie Griffiths her grandmother was Tippi Hedren so when this whole nepo baby article

came out everyone was kind of scoring the nepo babies on how they were reacting and I think Lottie Moss came off quite badly in terms of her reaction but everyone really enjoyed Dakota Johnson's reaction to it. I think she was kind of joking. She was retweeting things, but in this current press junket, she's, I don't know if you guys have seen this.

Someone asked her about the baby saga and she's quite sour and a bit kind of dismissive about it. And I was like, Oh, I thought you got it. I also saw something where, so in the film, there's three younger people and she almost takes them on and like, it's like a mothering I thought you got it. I also saw something where, so in the film, there's three younger people

and she almost takes them on and like is like a mothering figure and like a mentor. And in real life, that could be the case because she's obviously, you know, like an actor that's been around for a while. Sydney Sweeney is younger to the game. The other two actresses are newcomers. She made a comment about how they were all friends

and she just was on the outs but then somebody asked sydney sweeney about it sydney sweeney was like oh yeah she just never replies to us and then the other actress who was in their like younger group was just like oh yeah i think i've been left on read for a year i i don't know it was kind of just a bit rubbish that she wasn't just like oh yeah i took them under my wing and like i really wanted them to like you know feel safe on set and blah blah blah i i get that no one one owes anyone that but I didn't love that I used to really like her but I feel like she's affecting that kind of like sarcastic don't care a bit too much and I don't think it's coming across as well as like someone like Aubrey Plaza who I do genuinely just believe

is a little freak yeah in a fab way yeah I mean I feel like she is more of a prestigious like kind of actor I know that she started out of a prestigious like kind of actor. I know that she started out doing like Fifty Shades, but she's done some good projects. Why did she do this? Well, this, I was about to say that because when she did Fifty Shades of Grey, everyone was a bit like,

oh, come on, she's just the daughter of Manny Grit. Like she's not an actor. And then she went on to have some amazing roles. Like I love her in A Bigger Smash with Ralph Fiennes. Have you seen that? I've not seen that. It's such a good film.

And so she's done work and people actually started to really love her. She became a gay icon and there was the whole thing with the limes the limes the lie about the limes peanut butter falcon as well

Ellen DeGeneres yeah and I did invite you Ellen yeah so she has had some legendary moments and it's like oh it's it's interesting

because maybe she didn't realise how much in the public favour she was yeah and I it's the cycle we love them then we don't like them and I don't want to feed into that

but I just this whole like press tour I just haven't warmed to her so I've been loving just thinking about nepo babies this week really as usual so we asked you on Instagram what you wanted us to discuss on the podcast this week and caris said monica lewinsky becoming the face of reformation like okay this feels very us do either of you want to give a brief synopsis of who monica lewinsky is and why she's in the public consciousness okay i'll do my best here so in the 90s i I think it was 1995, Bill Clinton, who was president at the time and a married man to Hillary Rodham, began a sexual relationship with his, I believe, 22-year-old intern, Monica Lewinsky. It lasted about 18 months. The pressure was on him to deny this at several points.

He did. He said, I did not have sexual relationships or relations with that woman. I did not have sexual relations with that woman I did not have sexual relations with that woman anyone who used LimeWire to illegally download songs not me will have had this downloaded on their laptop sometime in the early 2000s anyway it eventually was revealed that he was having this affair she was smeared up and down the land as I guess she was like in her mid-20s by this point and has remained a like a figure of like fun of like sexual lasciviousness ever since so that's like 30 years perfect synopsis Beth and and I saw a tweet which I thought was really true from Aubrey Strobel which said Monica was simply born in the wrong generation her generation and the one before did her so dirty if she was Gen Z she would have a

podcast a book deal and a makeup line and i think that's so true but she's having her moment because this week the women's fashion brand reformation personal favorite of mine released a new workwear campaign which is fronted by her and the campaign tagline is you got the power and it's also in collaboration with vote.org which is a u.s based non-profit encouraging people to vote i think this is kind of iconic personally and it's an interesting direction i like the idea of using non-models i do kind of love the call to action to vote but it is again like blurring these worlds what do you guys make of the campaign i mean i think it's a beautiful campaign she looks amazing she makes the dresses look amazing i maybe disagree

with you about whether has she been a Gen Z she would have fared better there's a case we made that a woman involved in a sex scandal as like the adulterer maybe wouldn't have done better as a Gen Z I think we are still quite moralistic I think we maybe would have smeared her even more because of the internet I think she could have easily been really vilified for that would she been able to pivot that into a like real like monetized space would she been able to be a girl boss about it i think that i'm not sure on because i think mona kowinski did actually make a lot of money off this and obviously it's terrible what happened she did make a lot of money and is still doing very well but i just worry

about like the way that we treat women that we do and don't like. Had she fallen a little bit foul of like public image or Gen Z's, millennials, she could have easily been black marketed. Wait, what's it called? Blacklisted. She could have easily been blacklisted.

Back to the campaign. I wanted to bring up a piece in Elle by Veronique Hyland where she talks to the chief creative officer of Reformationation Lauren Karas-Cohen and they say Lewinsky is someone many Gen X millennial and Gen Z women see as a personal hero that's quite interesting framing do you think that's just because we have so much nostalgia for the 90s have we re-notified anything that happened in that era to be iconic I think yes I

think maybe because I don't remember this but I know like my mum's friends or like people of that generation hated her and still do or felt very strongly that she had an equal part to play like a bad part to play in this whereas Gen Z can just go you know she rose from the ashes she's got this like new life she kind of was a victim and now she's not so I think you're right I think we've attached maybe a narrative that was never there yeah I think you are right I think it is just like part of the process of us like mining everything that happened like 10 or 15 years ago a la Britney Spears one thing that I wanted to ask you about is how do you feel about a fashion

brand bringing in somebody from the politics world from history to kind of front a campaign and like kind of merging those two worlds together I saw a few people online saying it was quite bizarre and kind of icky. Icky is the word I was thinking as well in this piece in Elle Lauren Cohen is quoted as saying the universal jaw drop of her name coming up was why she wanted her to be the face of the brand and she said I was like whoa this woman's incredibly funny and smart and also a ref babe and I think there's everything is marketing now like everything is just about selling a product you go on Instagram everything is an ad for a brand is it's all kind of like merging into one thing it's really weird it's almost like you cannot escape being sold to and everyone is being tied to a different form of selling so

as much as I do think it's iconic it's interesting I do like the fact that along with the brand with a really sustainable ethics people might learn something about you know it is an interesting angle and it's interesting that she's not a model and that she's older and that she's maybe not like a size zero yeah I like that that is nice and it's kind of a fascinating collaboration of worlds but zoom out further and we're just always I mean I think we might be talking about this bit later but it's just attaching a famous name to something else in order to get more eyeballs on it every industry is merging into one weird pool of that can be like 30 second clipped

yeah and it's just being sold to you and exactly what she said the universal draw drop of her name it's everything is about what's going to get the most amount of eyeballs in the least amount of time i also wonder from her so what i was thinking of is one the beyonce lyric where it talks about monica lewinsky all on my gown um and then the fact that she's doing like a reformation collaboration they're well known for like they're amazing dresses the dress that she wore the famous blue gap dress which had Bill Clinton's fluid on it when you search I mean this is total conjecture when you search Monica Lewinsky dress half of the results are this bunk dress sorry the semen covered gown the other the other half is the reformation

collaboration so I'm like this is either fantastic luck and maybe it's her saying do you know what this was a long long time ago I want my google you know records to be expunged a little bit I mean if it is good on her but I just thought that was really interesting that you know now when you search her name she's the face of like the nicest dresses rather than that like grimy bit of pop culture history i do really love that for her she does i feel like everyone has the right to kind of wipe their history especially if you go through something as awfully traumatic as she did it is weird i feel like the combination of like fashion and then like bringing in like all of this like history and politics is just kind of bizarre in one way i'm happy that

reformation is encouraging more people to vote because by whatever means i don't care at this point i just need people to vote and get voices heard and hopefully some bad people out of government i think the only reason that kind of doesn't not that would keep me awake about what ridiculous thing i was about to say is because reformation is sustainable forward like that kind of thing is the number one sustainable option is being naked we're number two or something like that so at least they have some kind of political edge if it was pretty little thing oh god yeah bringing on like monica then i think i would have a real issue but i think at least there is some form of there is a little bit the venn diagram crosses over enough for me yeah to be like this is quite

classy collab i like what you did here and i have to say the copywriters at reformation i never read any emails but the reformation emails are so good i literally have to click on it every time so they piss me off do they yeah it's like stop making me feel like somebody's about to die unless i click on this i'm tired of it i do quite like it but i need to know and this is completely off but i need to know from big busty women not that i'm a big busty woman but i've got a bust you're i need to know if i can wear a reformation dress i'll tell you you can because they so as a small busted woman i can wear them but they have a ruched kind of elasticated they do back section so you're like even though it's linen and lovely fabrics if if you were going to extend forwards. As a bust might do.

As a bust might do. You have the room to do so. Brilliant. And busty, big busty babes are getting those boobies out. Oh, brilliant. This is the journalism that I needed. And also it's inclusive of breast size, unlike House of CB,

which I simply can't wear because I have nothing to put in the cups. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I hate that. I'm like that housemate who looks amazing in a CB. Something to fill. Sadly can't relate because I have nothing to put in the cups oh yeah yeah I hate that housemate who looks amazing in a yeah CB something to fill sadly can't relate no I guess we'll see how the collection does it is fairly corporate look it up some of it is giving Hillary Clinton I have to say there's like a red two-piece with the boat neck I don't know just interesting choices so we'll see I don't know interested to hear your thoughts please do uh contact us because it's one to deep dive into I

think thoughts please do uh contact us because it's one to deep dive into i think so we will be putting one pound at least in the private jet fund because i have another taylor swift story that i want to talk about so this past weekend taylor swift finished the australian leg of her eras tour and a video has gone quite viral of three fans sitting outside of the sydney venue doing something that swifties call tailor gating which is where they stand outside listen to the songs in the car park and in one viral video which was captured by a fan who set their own camera up so this isn't like a creep shot she realizes that Taylor is playing a song called exile and starts crying in a way that personally I have only ever associated with like deep tragedy like unfathomable loss like it is really wailing um it's guttural exactly she posted the video as of us recording this now we can check it's still up on the internet comments are disabled but she's not deleted it

another account has reposted it and kept the comments up and those comments are I think as you might expect a lot of like judgmental stuff flying around a lot of quite cruel comments a lot of disbelief that you know why did she record this in the first place and why did she post it why does she feel this kind of strong emotional connection to this particular Taylor Swift song and Taylor Swift so have you guys seen it and if so what is your kind of first reaction I did did you see the caption which was I believe um this is the song that saved me or something to that effect yeah um but she didn't explain why or what that was but I did see it did you see it Anoni I think the thing that's most shocking about it is the aware the self-awareness that this was

going to happen to set up the camera so the react I think what's so jarring about it is she's filming actually we don't I suppose you don't know how long the camera's been there but it very much felt like she put it there and she was preparing to have this reaction and also it doesn't let her friends laughing the thing I'm obsessed with I have to say is just like um I don't know why it just really reminds me of something I would do where it's like she was almost waiting for it to happen two notes played and she was like and it was like almost like flip the switch I don't know why I was just obsessed with that and there's another bit where someone was like she sort of I think she realizes like her foot's in shot so she sort of creeps her

Birkenstocked foot out of the camera which again is something I would do so I saw this and I had that knee-jerk reaction of maybe I was a bit judgmental as a kind of I feel quite neutral about Taylor Swift I thought is there really a song even in with the artist I love that would make me feel that level of emotion and would I ever have and the answer is no would I ever have the impulse to record it to then post it and to feel kind of fine about that and I think I think the answer is no so the exact caption is my reaction to Taylor singing exile in brackets also known as the song that saved my life like I'm not doubting that you could have I would definitely there's so many songs that I would have a really big emotional

reaction to because I'm basic would probably be like better together by John Johnson if I ever saw him live which I'm desperate to but like surely she knows that Taylor's gonna be singing this song it's as if like it's a surprise but wouldn't that be on the set list I think it is so I think we don't know which is why she's outside and I couldn't tell whether she was so because she wished she was in there when she was playing it but I think it is a surprise oh okay well I kind of feel less bad about that I thought she knew she'd like seen it on the set list set the video up and was like i'm gonna cry oh i think it's all right now i think it's all right i don't have a problem with it and i feel like i don't know we we know that people have these reactions to their favorite

stars i feel like i don't know at one point in my life i probably could have like collapsed on the floor been heaving sobbing if lady gaga was playing because i was obsessed with her at a certain point and had this like giant emotional reaction i actually wrote about it for the observer once so yeah i think i think it's all right and it's not anything new is it no it is the beetle mania it is the elvis presley hip thrusting craziness and it is and it's always obviously we are very like misogynistic about when women have strong reactions to art. Maybe mine was, I was like, really like get a sense of proportion. Like it just felt like a global, like reliving times of global terror and like,

is this what we care about? And then I had to check myself and be like, maybe she also cares about other things. This is just one moment in time. Also, how old is is she is she in her early 20s because i think what's confusing about it is the fact that it's filmed but i personally being the biggest attention seeker ever in school for example someone would tell like a minorly funny joke and we would genuinely just fall on the floor screaming laughter for attention because it was like someone oh my god his chances are too long we black and then like we would like cause each other to have these huge fits of laughter but it was it was it was peacocking god i can't think of the word you know what i mean yeah i think what's so weird about it is like when you're being teenagers or in your

early 20s i don't know how old she is but you do do these things to show off to your friends and it's all kind of like learning and you're testing the boundaries i think it's the filming thing that's so strange as we know everything is content it just renders it to me quite inauthentic to have the thought I'm gonna have an emotion the camera's on there's no way that you don't ham that up it was like the woman in the restaurant when she orders like pancakes or waffles she's filming herself waiting for them to arrive they arrive she does a little happy dance and it's like my hangriness goes away and everyone was also quite sneering at this and I had the same reaction because it's like my hangriness goes away and everyone was also quite staring at this and I had the same reaction because it's not the little happy dance when you get your food if that's the

authentic reaction it's performance was performing of a feeling and I felt maybe this if this is a performing of an emotion that's a lot bigger than it would have been if the camera wasn't on are we just like self-commodifying to a really exhausting degree where like no moment kind of comes around on its own every moment we just think how is this going to look on like a six by seven screen does that mean that any emotion caught on camera then is by virtue just inauthentic because you've propped something up to record it or are we so used to having these devices all around us that it is just like I don't know like having having your arm there it could be because you know as a boomer myself I could just not get

it because I haven't I've never done it myself and I would immediately feel really self-conscious and I would change how I act and I do when I see a camera on me so it could just be a generational thing completely I'm so uncomfortable as soon as I have a camera on like in front of me I seize up I look awkward like there's a reason there's no selfies on my Instagram everyone not to quote myself but I'm going to in bad influence my debut book I talk about this I don't think you can ever be authentic on anything you post online when people are like this is for me this is for my memories then you keep it yourself the minute you know that something's going to be seen you're the way you look you're

really aware of the camera i don't believe that there is such thing as authenticity online i think authenticity can really genuinely only exist in a moment as it's happening and the fact that it's fleeting rather than like edited posted with a caption that may or may not reflect the truth even if you're telling something which is true to you because obviously also we self-edit all the time in real life as well but when you're online it's like you're factoring on all these other people and I agree what you're saying about the woman that doesn't happy dance this is a whole part of TikTok where people really over exaggerate their reactions to eating food or seeing their friend or buying

something new and it's it's like a sensory overload and people seem to really like it it doesn't work for me again it might because I'm a boomer but i do think it's problematic in terms of i do think people are just sitting at home and overreacting and i mean that in the literal sense not like over like as in over performing for being online but then just not actually going out into the world yeah i think it does affect how we interact with people yeah affects everything one thing i was going to say is i feel like the specific subsect of this is just like fan culture and I feel like the overreaction and kind of putting it online is almost being like I'm I'm such a big fan I'm this much of a fan that I would have this breakdown yeah I think there is an

element of like that can't be authentic if you've got that in your mind of proving yourself to be a fan but I also don't think that's necessarily a bad thing if that is the motivation I think it is just like it just reminds me of being at school and being like competitive with a friend who said that they like the same artist I was like well actually I listen to this and this and this and this and this and this yeah and I mean this is money to be made as well with like kind of attention retention on videos so like if you do ham it up and if you do have quite an extreme reaction something that other people are going to talk about negatively or positively you keep those eyes on your video you do stand to make a bit more money and in like quite an uncertain where you

know everything's pivoting to online I can see the motivation also to get eyes on your page there was a recent piece by Sarah Manavis in the Guardian talking about it's actually talking about anti-fans but one of the things she writes about is the parasocial relationships we have with celebrities and people online and actually what you just said richira reminded me of that piece because it made me think you're so right it's kind of like that person is telling everyone that actually i because i had this experience that was life-changing for me i'm actually closer to taylor than you even though it's only happened on their end it's like no one could take that away from them you can't you can't say no that's not true that you know that saved that song saved your life and so they've created in this parasocial thing a closeness which is more than someone else's

closeness yeah yeah completely um I have to shout out Hannah Ewan's book Fangirls which does such a good job of talking about how fans you know try and get as close physically emotionally mentally to the people that they love in various ways it's so good this isn't the first cringy viral video generating discourse and it won't be the last and we'll talk about them all okay so I've got a sad one to bring up I'm sure you girls have seen that vice media announced last week less than a year after filing for bankruptcy is now shuttering its news operations and flagship site vice.com there's been a load of redundancies it's been really really just fucking awful to be honest vice was founded 30 years ago as a print magazine and expanded digitally it reached the point in the mid-2010s

where it was the major alternative media platform for up-and-coming journalists at one point it was valued more than the new york times which is incredible and yeah my my personal experiences I interned there in 2018 it's how me and Annie Lord became besties we met there and I did a little bit of housekeeping I saw that I've written 60 articles for Vice so it's just like honestly so devastating I'm so upset I'm really sad it was the place I would go for innovative interesting articles there was like fun people I used to love all of Tom Usher's like really silly like experiments he did I remember those like eating nettles and actually it's what introduced me to pretty much all of the roster of like young journalists now that I love that have gone on to work in different publications or still write for Vice and I didn't realize until maybe this week

how many of them had come out of that because they were saying got my start here and it was just like a complete who's who of the the best like working journalists now and it just it was such a factory of brilliance yeah yeah there's also a lot of other things of course but like rutier you got your like it just goes to show that is where so many people like someone gave a chance they did some batshit stuff and now they're working doing more amazing stuff like you yeah did you see shrinkale's piece uh for the guardian um very popular very well-known feature writer for the guardian wrote her an opinion piece when i was interning there she worked at broadly and she was so nice and continues to be really

supportive and nice and in this piece she just kind of lamented you know the execs who throughout this whole process were giving themselves bonuses year on year on year whilst they were making redundancies um that was even the case last year i saw recently that yeah as people getting laid off left right and center they gave themselves a record bonus wow and she said right at the end the thing that's the saddest about this is all the young writers that possibly will not be seen or heard because there is nothing like vice anymore and it was just such a it was just such a incubator for people who wanted to get into the industry and just needed a place of support and encouragement i also think it's the variety of writing like we've spoken so many times in this podcast about how everything's kind of curmudgeoned it's probably the wrong word like foisted through

the same very small funnel of information and it's like click and eyes and stuff whereas vice would have like really interesting takes and like i feel like that's not something that you get in especially in mainstream big publications and we've also lost recently galden yeah only last was that last year so many are just shuddering and and you're right it's like really well reported long reads fewer and fewer places especially like interesting ones a lot of younger people will read and write where do you go to read them or to write them where do you pitch those anymore rather than just like pictures that someone's taken off someone's instagram and written like a

piece about about like microtrends yeah um i think it was jason who said this jason who said this this week all we do is like we report on microtrends they don't actually go anywhere it's not useful reporting because they're so shallow and vapid what we need is like proper decent deep reporting which i think is what vice did and what vice journalists have gone on to do and and reporting the micro trends thing isn't interesting either because they're generated by us as if we say we're the readers like journalism is supposed to do the opposite of that it's supposed to dig deep deep dive figure out you know things rather than all they do is they like cannibalize stuff that is already kind of like like you said like the algae growing on top of the yeah they just go here's what you've already

been seeing this is what you've all been saying we've collected it together and all the tweets you've already read and all the posts you've already seen here they are in one article a very tired staff writer right about this well literally on that note that's like a perfect segue did you see that amazing research that ryan broderick internet culture reporter uncovered from pew research center which suggests that 40 of people on tiktok are in their 30s and 40s so all of these micro trends that are like you know this tiktok trend on work culture blah blah blah blah or this like term for this blah blah blah blah is just like millennials reporting on millennials like it's not even young people in the way that it's you know reported to be I initially wasn't very shocked about that I was like yeah obviously but actually the way people talk about the internet is like that's all young

people what they're up to it's just us yeah it's so true it's just us in this room literally just us yelling into the void and then like somebody hearing it and being like oh yeah is that is that a gen zed okay yeah let's just report that i know that we talk about the internet here and that's kind of our bread and butter pop culture but i want to read stuff isn't doesn't begin and end with dot com yeah i agree i just think where what is the future of journalism now i think what we're seeing is quite damning i think it's really scary and obviously like as working freelance writers a lot of my or the budgets of the places I used to write for have been slashed I kind of have to work under that subscription model just to make rent people don't accept

pitches anymore and I for a long time I thought it was just me I thought I came a shit writer everyone I talked to the most talented writers I know are saying Beth is across the board so I think it is a really scary time and I've been doing this for 10 years I've got other things that you know I could pivot to and it's fine I'm figuring it out but like this would be so discouraging and actually insurance piece in the Guardian she says she is going to talk to journalist students at a university and she genuinely doesn't know what to say to them and I think that is just the scariest bit the voices lost like what do I look people approach me I'm like I do not have

solid advice for you that isn't like keep your day job and just like hold on fucking tight or have a side hustle or try to like I'm coming from the other side where I obviously do do influencing and part of the reason why I got my book deal and I was actually really scared of it was because publishers look at me and think oh well that's an easy transaction because she's got this like built-in audience which and I hope that you know I the book is fine but what I mean is that's not good for incredible writers who are younger more disadvantaged than me don't have a platform who want to get a book deal who want to write journalism and they're not given the same platform as someone like me that reminds me of the clip of Sam Thompson from

the June part two press junket don't dislike the guy, but I didn't think necessarily that his question to Timothy Chalamet and Austin Butler was that enlightening. I don't know if you guys saw this. The question was sort of like, how do you, Timothy, like kiss Zendaya, who's your friend in real life? And obviously the answer is, well, they're actors. Move on. It was just a really shallow question.

And a lot of people were tweeting, I'm a journalist with X amount of years training and practice i wasn't allowed in those rooms they didn't have time for me they didn't have time for like a letterbox i saw that so someone retweeted like uh they didn't make time for my publication and then someone else responded underneath like us neither and they were like they haven't that letterboxed it like i don't really know what's going on i'm hoping this will come crashing down because like you said I think what's happening is you're getting these short sharp clicks you're getting eyeballs there is no retention that people aren't getting interesting insights it is cheap really isn't it what they're doing it's cheap yeah but it's not translating so yeah I'm in agreement I just think

in the time while these people figure out people are going to just get so discouraged from pursuing a career which actually is so important just culturally you're not necessarily just asking people questions about the films but like good reporters honest reporters curious minds this is what we need we don't necessarily need people that have been you know fucking around in the media space on reality tv going well i might as well give this a go unless they genuinely have a credible reason to do it or they're very talented which does exist on the note of what you would recommend to young people getting into the industry the worst thing is as you're speaking the only thing that's really clear to me apart from you know like diversifying like everything you can do whether it's editing and stuff is honestly just

like build an online audience and it goes back to what we were saying last week about um you know this piece about being a sellout from Rebecca Jennings which is just like the best thing you can do right now is just become kind of a micro influencer online and leverage that to become anything you actually want to be but as somebody who doesn't really have you know 10 to 20,000 plus followers I always kind of had this thought in the back of my mind oh Oh, but my work speaks for itself. My work speaks for itself. People think of me because of my pieces

and I feel really comfortable with that. And that makes me feel good. And with the Vice stuff, I just have this pit in my stomach of just realizing that maybe I should have just like, instead of focusing on pieces, built up an audience because that's all commissioners seem to care about.

That's so bleak to me. And it's all those times, like I'm very online and I do often think all that time i've spent fanning around online i could have been becoming a better writer better like honing my craft so i think none of your time has been wasted and your work does speak for itself i know what you mean your work does speak for itself but also like that is this the sad truth i've spoken to so many like friends journalists models anyone wants any job it's like great how many followers have they got like and that is a gross place to be in as someone who's

built an audience like I feel like I'm in a bit of a gilded cage where like I'm so lucky because I do get opportunities but at the same time I'm like I don't freaking want to have to like show up every day I think the state of it is all wrong even though I benefit from how it's like working at the minute and I think we spoke about this before maybe in the last episode about how there's like 50 million content creators at some point it's going to be so oversaturated like everyone does have 10,000 followers everyone in air quotes so at some point the merit system is going to have to change that isn't going to be enough it will have to be the caliber of the writing because these people aren't going to read bad people aren't going to watch people are going to complain about the writing because these people aren't going to read bad people

aren't going to watch people are going to complain about bad press junkets people aren't going to watch it interviews they're not going to read crap journalism so whilst at the minute people might be going off this like numerical value I hope I believe that maybe a different arm of journalism something will come up it has to because it's not working right now I don't think you know what is upsetting to me is just the ephemeral nature of all of the kind of online media we joke all the time like the internet's forever don't do anything stupid but actually so much the internet is not forever people advise talking about how do I download years worth of articles how do I get 60 or so bylines onto you know something that can hold on to them because actually these places shutter and like whole bodies of work are lost we don't have physical media all of this stuff just

feels like if one company like rests on like some faceless board of people go nah get rid of that it's not making enough money all of this like creative arts lost and yes so you know people talking about people that eat poo and like an ode to Doritos Vice's best stuff is lost alongside you know people's bodies of work we've spoken about it before um actually when it was talking about the New York Times journalist who wrote about the Gayla Swift theories but Vice's Vice's importance in being able to understand youth culture and being able to understand the nuances of the internet and you know society in a way that broadsheet publications just never will is just like such a massive loss to me. I pitched so many bizarre random articles that they took a

chance on and you know helped craft into something tangible and it helped me understand the ways that I see the internet today there's just nothing else like it oh my god look at your face just on a hatch for that I'm gonna cry I honestly have been so emotional about it like I have a pit in my stomach it's so yeah also for like people like Ruchira and like creatives coming through who are like incredible journalists you really worked hard and just watching all of these places that potentially would have been your next step up to your next thing or whatever going away and then seeing someone like sam thompson and again this isn't personal to him but what is your next move it's it's like it's so much bigger than it's real people with real like ambitions real families like real bills

to pay and like it's at the whims of like these bosses they didn't build this the creative minds built this everyone quote unquote below them built this and they have they see none of the equity whereas these big wigs get all of the profit and it does just make you furious about everything about capitalism about the state of the media the media death spiral and it is really personal to us all yeah yeah yeah hell yeah couldn't have put it better myself can i lighten the mood by reading a tweet from erin please r.a.p vice i'll never forget reading an article by a woman who's had a vaginal discharge reminded her of egg whites so she so she fried up and ate it and came to the conclusion that it's not the same as egg whites actually i got my journalism degree after that oh my god um one video that i think i've given

a shout out before but um the guy who took acid and went to crufts oh yes so excellent yeah we have to link that because it is one of the most like joyful interesting why he's hot why was that relevant we were like for some reason that was really relevant to something we were talking about i couldn't possibly work we were not considering taking acid and going to no but it was like we were like this is it was so good there was one that i read which i think it was like ecstasy or drugs were like temporarily legalized in dublin and it was how dublin celebrated the 48 hour legal ecstasy loophole and it was from like nine years ago and it was i found it today when i was looking at like you know everyone's stories about this and it's just the most it was by rashim kibad and it's

just the most like hilarious piece of writing and i just think it's like vice is finest vice drugs love introduced me to so many things and so many new ideas to give them some credit i feel like max daly getting a nomination for the orwell prize for his work on drugs i feel like broadly sharon carley's work before she moved to the Guardian doing Unfollow Me a massive campaign on stalking it's just like the way they balance like work that is some of the best investigative work of our time and then also I Took Acid and Went to Crufts is just it's just art it's art it's the full human experience it is Boomer Butler with the fish like Joel Golby's like writes just such moving stuff like about like Doritos and it's just like

these are just some of the best writers yeah if there is a writer that you love from Vice give them a shout out maybe they're going through you know some emotions about it support their work give them a follow um I know I've got 1700 that I'm gonna go follow now next week we'll be discussing the book that you all voted for eliza clark's penance so grab a copy and get reading you've still got time to finish it and join us i actually also listened to an audiobook and that's sometimes a more efficient way if you feel worried about squeezing into a week i did too it's about 12 hours long or shorter if you listen to it on double speed and it's good i am really enjoying it.

Like, no spoilers, it's kind of true crime-y. I don't like true crime. Really enjoying the book. If you've read Boy Parts or other book, it's got elements of that style. Dark. Hooky. Very dark.

No, definitely very dark. I feel like, I feel fear in my heart as I'm reading, but in a really good way. So we'll say no more, but join us next Friday, where we're going to be deep diving into it. Thanks for listening this week. As always, remember to take a look in the show notes for links if you want to deep dive into anything we've discussed. Follow us on Instagram at everythingiscontentpod.

And please do tell a friend about the podcast if you love it. Word of mouth really helps us out. We'll see you this time next week bye everything is content is a grape original podcast and we are part of the acas creator network this podcast was created devised and presented by us beth mccall richira sharma and anoni the producer is faye lawrence and the executive producer is james norman fife