Everything Is Content - The end of Brat summer, no smoking and friendship breakups

Episode Date: September 5, 2024

This week on Everything Is Content we’re bidding farewell to Brat summer and saying hello to September. Does that back to school feeling ever go away? What kind of autumn are we aiming for? And when is too soon to see Christmas decorations in shops? We then head to the smoking area to discuss news of a possible ciggie ban in beer gardens. An attack on freedom or a necessary step to keep us all healthier? We discuss. And finally we’re talking all about friendship break-ups. Why do they happen and what can we do to keep our friendships alive through all of life’s changes?If you want to chat more about anything we’ve covered in today’s episode or have suggestions for future topics, please do give us a message on Instagram @everythingiscontentpod!THE GUARDIAN- Past LivesITVX - Love Island USABBC NEWS - Brat summer officially over THE GUARDIAN - Keir Starmer does not rule out outdoor smoking ban proposalTHE CATERER - Pub owners believe outdoor smoking ban would risk closuresTHE CUT - Exactly Why Are Friendship Break-Ups So Brutal THE ATLANTIC - What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was At The Center Of Life? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

it hadn't started recording yet now it's recording every single time um i'm beth and i'm anoni and this is everything is content we're the podcast that explores the farthest corners of the internet to bring you the best of the day's discourse with a fountain pen in the brand new notebook of pop culture stories. You may have noticed that Ruchira is not here this week. Sadly for us, but happily for her, she is taking a very well-deserved holiday. We really miss her and we can't wait to have her back next week. This week, we're discussing Keir Starmer's smoking ban, friendship breakups, and whether that back to school feeling ever truly goes away. But before we get stuck into all of that we'd love for you to head over to our Instagram at everything is content pod and give us

a follow. It really helps us to grow as an independent podcast so thank you so much in advance. Right let's get stuck in. What have we been loving this week? I'm maybe quite late to the party but I finally watched Past Lives on because it's on Netflix. And it is so beautiful. For those of you who haven't seen it, it is about this young little Korean boy and girl who meet when they're like young kids. And then she moves with her family to the US. And so they're separated. But they're kind of always thinking about each other and they come back together later on. And there's this idea in Korean culture that if someone, if you end up marrying someone, it means you must have had this like crossover 8,000 times in your past lives in order to get to the point where you got married. I can't remember what the concept is called, but basically it's a really long, over the course of of decades, they follow these two people and see how their stories intersect and go apart. Have you watched it? I've watched it. I watched it months ago. I found it so sad. I didn't cry, but I found it so, it really stuck with me. Did you cry?

Yes, I did cry and it really moved me and I'm really bad at watching things by myself but this really engaged me I think I even watched it on like a Friday night and then I don't know it kind of was something it triggered me to have a good cry actually and then I kind of went to bed and cried and then had a really good sleep I feel like I it's a really difficult one to watch I think if you've got like any big life stuff going on any like emotional like I think it's just prime for feeling like tapping into that part of yourself and you're like oh my god life is actually beautiful but also like terribly sad did you know side note um celine song who directed this is married to the guy who wrote challengers which is kind of a similar

story of like the three or like a kind of what's it called a love triangle yes because i haven't i still haven't watched challengers to my shame maybe i'll do that this weekend but i remember when it came out people would take being like oh my god i've just realized that celine song is married to i can't remember what the challengers guys just in someone i think yes justin i know i wanted to say just about don't even that's a very different guy in a very different film um and everyone was like these two must be in a thruffle because they are thruffle obsessed well they just had like really like similar anyway i'm obsessed with them both um why i really want to say threesome film earlier but i don't think you could describe past lives as a threesome film i think if you said that and

people went to see it they'd be like you fucking liar no there's no sex I don't think in in past lives what have you been loving I have been loving not a book this week finally I'm fed up with reading I have been watching Love Island USA I'm very late to the party I like it seems ridiculous to recommend like Love Island this late in the game but Love Island USA this series actually such good reality tv and I wasn't going to watch it because it's been on it's basically near the end now um i saw bolly babalola on twitter talking about it uh listeners will know her as author of loving color and honey and spice but also excellent on the dying app that is twitter um and she was talking about it and if there's one thing i can trust her on it is like good romantic tv and film so i was like i'll give it a little go i'll see i

need something to unwind with in the evenings stuck it on and it is even from the early episodes just very entertaining so much better than the uk one i think i'm just going to not watch the uk one and i'm just going to watch americans because americans are so candid and I think they're hornier as well I don't know what maybe it's their economy slightly better but they are like snogging talking about their boners it has been exactly what I need I think to transition out of summer and into autumn I have seen Bolo tweeting about it is Jason watching as well or isason watching something else because he's also been tweeting is it someone called sabrina on it is that someone called that's that's love is blind he has been he has been like jason ochendyer has been live tweeting both love is blind and also game of thrones which is so funny it's it's i actually

might have to block him because i've not watched game of thrones and i'm so convinced that one day i'm gonna i'm gonna watch so i've watched one season at uni and then just for some reason I've watched any more and it's killing me because he is live tweeting every time someone gets killed or dies or gets raped or you will have to incest I can give you a list of people's names to block because he's so funny you can't mute him I'll give you people's names to mute on like the muted words list you can still follow him and you won't see spoilers um he's so funny that I don't I don't know if he's watching the USA um I want to see his tweets as well so so maybe it is lovers blind because I keep reading it's funny because they're merging in my mind so I'll be reading something about Game of Thrones then he'll be like Sabrina's this and I'll be thinking that's also about Game of Thrones but you're right he's

like I don't know how he's doing it because it's very concurrent. He's like live tweeting the same at the same time. Okay, so he's not watching that, but you would really recommend it. And do you have a couple that you're really rooting for? Well, there's a couple I really like. Actually, did you watch season one of The Traitors? Yes. Do you remember Aaron?

Did I? Did I only watch the second one? I think, I fear you may have gotten into game late yeah i did which is a shame but there was a guy called aaron who made it all the way to the end i won't say if he won the money or not but he is on this and he's like in the lineup they're like i'm from north carolina i'm from and he's like i'm from north devon and i was like what the fuck is this guy doing here but he is my favorite on this he at the moment he's in castle and he's up to no good and i'm not enjoying it but he has been so sweet it's so weird to see there's another english guy on there from great yarmouth i don't know why they're on i mean i'm

happy to see them i'm like this is so random really enjoying that crossover from two reality tv shows really enjoying he's going out with something called kayla not kayla kaylor kayla kaylor i don't know how you say it and they are very sweet together and oh i think it's just maybe he's just a little piece of home but yeah it's absolutely fantastic really rooting for them i do really there is something about watching a brit on an american tv show that i find gives me like a compass within the show to understand what's happening even like lisa vanderpump i know she's lived in the us pages on real housewives oh that reminds me is this hosted by ariana maddox because that does yes yes and she kind of comes in and it because

they're quite forthcoming and they're like sitting around the fire pit and they'll actually get quite annoyed and she's her sort of like looking startled being like like someone's planning to leave and she's like i don't think you should leave and i'm like i sort of like looking startled, being like, someone's threatening to leave. And she's like, I don't think you should leave. And I'm like, I sort of just trust her on all things, love and heartbreak because of all she's been through. She's still singing. Because what she's been through, I think she is such a good host. And Maura Higgins from the UK one

does do their like after sun and stuff. So they've got a real, like, it is giving budget. I think our show looks budgetless. There's no challenges this one i've got so many challenges and they're so dastardly they've obviously got the money for ariana who i imagine has got quite high fee at the moment so it is they like have the money and they're spending it where are you watching it netflix itv um x whatever like just just streaming on that so i didn't even have to do it legally which I would never do obviously obviously

so this week our beloved CharlieXDX has announced on social media that Brat Summer is over she tweeted goodbye forever Brat Summer which is quite definitive and also posted the same caption on Instagram um the actual summer is not over yet. Don't worry, I don't want to depress anyone. There's still some nice weather and summer vibes left to come. But we at the pod have been forced to accept the seasons are changing. Summer is coming to an end and we're heading into autumn. And despite both being in our 30s, early 30s, very early 30s, we have discussed that we still get that back to school, fresh start feeling at the start of September. And I think we should discuss that because I don't think that we are alone in not leaving that behind a decade ago. What do you think?

I, do you know what, September is my real new year because I think that new years in January are often, well, first of all, New Year's Eve is, I would say, the worst night of the year because you always think you're going to have the best New Year's Eve. It's always really disappointing. Whatever plans you come up with, unless you have like a house party, I think it's always kind of like, I think I've missed every single New Year's countdown because I'm always like chatting to someone outside in a smoking area, which we'll come on to later. Completely missed the countdown. Missed that it's gone midnight. Everyone's like, where are you?

And I'm like, oh, sorry. So that happens. And it's cold and you're a bit depressed and you're often feeling a bit like sluggish and you're really hungover. And so no, September, summer's just finished. You maybe have got a bit of a tan. You've probably been going out loads.

Your social battery's a bit dead and it feels like there's an excuse to kind of take things in-house and suddenly reset and restore and it's just perfect and I just I even I went on a run on Monday morning it was like the first Monday of September I felt really organized the crispness in the air brings with it some sort of resolution I love it it's it's my new year i agree completely i would love to know who decided on like i'm sure new year's resolutions were invented to sell like gym memberships or something sinister like that but i completely agree like it's the middle of winter the seasons

aren't changing which like you say it's such like a poignant thing basically like full of irish cream and complex carbs you are in the thick or if you're me you're in the thick of like seasonal depression it makes no sense i think it is spring beginning of spring and beginning of autumn is exactly when you should take stock of the year refresh and like make commitments because there's not first of january i can barely move I can even have not been drunk the night before I can like barely open my eyes like I'm gonna like train for a marathon no I think it's revolting so I agree and I'm trying before I get properly depressed which like clockwork first of October I will I'm trying to do like some little resolutions but I don't know what I want to do yet

do you know what else I think it is I think is this the year you have the beginning of the year when you do like get us into January and you're trying really hard and then spring maybe stuff's happening then summer all all the bows sort of start to come loose and everything's untying and now it's like in September you're taking all of the learnings from the year and it's that final stretch it's like if you are on a run that last kilometer you can like push yourself through it I think something happens where you're like right actually I'm gonna get to the end of the year and I'm gonna you know finish all of the projects that I started or get everything done whereas in January it's like also it's so dark my mum

actually said to me something about Christmas on the weekend and I was like don't talk to me about Christmas she was like what and I was like I don't want to I don't like I find Christmas very stressful I find that period just quite overwhelming and I was like it's literally the first of September and you're trying to talk to me about Christmas I was like leave me alone I'm having my autumn and I'll speak to you about Christmas in December I think people really get I went into B&M in Wales the other day um and there was Christmas stuff out in the shops and not even like they'd skipped past uh what's the other one speaking on halloween skip halloween no i was like this is absolutely

revolting it made me feel physically unwell i know wales god love it it is quite cold there or it does feel a bit autumnal but like it like i can deal with autumn adjacent items like i don't know like a a leafy wreathy something like a kind of cluster of pumpkins but I always seeing like full dancing centers and I it just made me feel really unwell I think we rush ahead to that and I think it's actually I'm yeah I just really upset me I feel exactly the same as you I feel like I want to do I want to take September like really day by day and actually enjoy because it's it's not an in between time it's not like between Christmas and New Year's it's like its own time and I don't know

if we appreciate enough I think the commercialization of Christmas or I even want to say the USAfication of the way that we celebrate holidays is really getting to me I don't I don't think pumpkins should be out until October I don't think Christmas should be out until October. I don't think Christmas songs should begin until mid-November. I think Christmas cheese and Christmas decorations should be on display from December. I think it should be so condensed because that was what the excitement used to be because it would be so far away. I hate, sometimes I'll get emails being like, do you want to come to the M&S Christmas party in August where they're like showcasing all of the Christmas foods and things and I just I don't like it maybe that's old of me but it's I just think because it

makes you feel like you're rushing time and I agree there's something really beautiful about this stepping into autumn and it is as much as I do enjoy like Halloween for me Halloween is very much like kind of a week-long event where I might have a pumpkin and I might wear a slutty outfit but it's not you know some people really get into it it's not something I massively celebrate and Christmas again I think is gorgeous in the magic of it but really I like Christmas from I like listening to the songs but I like being Christmassy throughout December super Christmassy from like the 18th up until Boxing Day after Boxing Day I want to take the tree down and I'm done it's over I'm so done with it I'm like this is it now I agree I definitely don't

want to hear anything about Christmas events while I've still got a fucking bikini on my ass I think people need to relax what I want to do I actually do feel like quite academic at this time of year though I don't and I think that is definitely a holdover from school because I have not been in education in a decade so I don't and what am I going to do like I could learn something actually like I don't know why I was like what am I going to do learn something new probably should um but like I went and bought all this stationery it's the one which is the one area where I'm like I do over consume I hate over consume I hate over consumption I think we should just have like one of what we need maybe two when it comes to stationery

that goes out the window I went and bought like a new planner a new pen all of this stuff what am I gonna what am I planning to do with that I can't wait no I can't wait to get my new planner I'm so because every single day I have to hand write my to-do list every day. I don't handwrite anything else. But also it's so funny because I'll put, wake up, walk after, go to the gym. And then, but because it helps me, because what happens is when I do that, I can then tick off three things quite quickly in the morning and it gets me on a roll.

It's like positive reinforcement. I was like, I've already done three things. So I write down basically step-by-step everything I have to do every day. So I love getting my new diary and I fill them up every time and they make me really happy and I used to keep them but I don't and then I got these two pens I don't know I've got one on me but they were from Sainsbury's the best ballpoint biros I've ever bought and they're really cute and if I ever lose them I'm gonna

go spare because you know when you find a pen that you just really identify with and actually bought new pens for ages because I've got this one kind of like marble effect pen with gold trim and a pink one both from Sainsbury's that I bought randomly last year I wonder if they're gonna run out anyway I'm really attached to these two pens don't because I want them too because I have such a thing with pens I hate you get one and it takes ages to like wear it in I used to say if I ever get really rich I will hire someone to like work in all my ball points because i hate it i hate it so much i hate the ones that get like that kind of like drippy gooey oh like and you just think i was like wiping off on a tissue that day it was actually like weirdly like erotic it was disgusting um i don't think that like fascination for stationary and like going to wh smiths in like august early september ever goes away i still

have that completely as you i'm like lighting up thinking about buying some new sanctuary spends so we asked you guys on instagram what kind of autumn we want now that charlie xx has murdered brat summer and i'm going to read some of these acts i think they are gold i will keep everyone anon of course we had a few like this trying to stay alive autumn which i mean literally same if i know that's been really dark if i'm still here in october i have i will surprise myself but yes trying to stay alive look after yourself like this is the worst time for mental health i cannot stress this enough my voice in the podcast if i've got like a little bit of pep now that will be gone turning 30 autumn is another one

which I kind of wish Ruchira's here for because she is turning 30 this autumn as well in November which is very exciting I think it's such a nice time of year to just turn I mean I'm a summer baby actually I think that's the best one but I think that's very sweet so we've got one on the pod serious autumn hagwitch autumn I will also be participating in that one we just got a message that said gremlin which I don't know whether that was pointed at me or if they're having a gremlin autumn offline autumn this is what someone said i'm at capacity for memes internet trends which no offense but no that doesn't work because that means you can't listen to the podcast because that's what we talk about so request is denied for um offline autumn you will be online

listening to this someone else just said hen girl like a chicken like you pecking about i don't anyway i quite like maybe they maybe they've got loads of hen parties oh right that just shows where i am in my life i was like oh she must be becoming a bird get your shit together autumn will be participating and do me autumn I thought that was a really fun word to me autumn I'm I'm definitely going to participate and stay at home and don't spend money autumn will will you though I feel like that's okay if I'm on Instagram and you're out having fun what should I do I saw a tweet that was like can't wait um my goal is to just spend seven dollars between now and January 1st and I was like same girl same that's very wise and a few

people just saying they're doing Bratton I think defying mother Charlie and just doing that fair I don't know where they get the energy from like I will be in my thermal six pairs of underwear but like gotta love them i think my favorite submission is just corduroy is in exclamation mark is corduroy in do you know funnily enough one of my friends actually said this to me when we were on holiday we were talking about jeans as everyone is always talking about what are the best jeans lots of people were talking about abercrombie jeans apparently they're the the jean to like fit a body as it happens and then she literally did say the words oh corduroy corduroy's in she said that as well and i was like is it she was like yeah and then i think that was at the end okay well it was because i said i didn't want to wear jeans because I've tried for the last 30

years to find a pair of jeans that I think suit my body and fit me nicely and also are fashionable because often I think like jeans that suit my body are quite like not cool but because I'm quite short and I'm not really skinny I'd always try and do a baggy jean but I just look like I'm drowning then like a skinny jean can be flattering my body body, but ick. And then I try and do the sort of like slim leg high waist jean. But what happens there is it cuts me in half. Like I sit down and I feel like someone's trying to surgically remove my labia. Do you know what I mean? I know. I get that with the really rib. I feel exactly the same way about jeans. I think I'm losing the battle. I, yeah, sit down, you know, suddenly know suddenly like I mean I've got a pair of jeans

that like genuinely have found my clitoris way more often than any man like they go straight up there but that's it's so uncomfortable and I'm not doing it anymore like in order for jeans to look nice they kind of have to cut around your mom's pubis when you know when it like tucks in at the sides and then you get that nice little hole because I don't have a thigh gap but I do get a hole at the top of my thigh yeah do you know the one I mean and I'm like that looks cool but if you have that when you sit down it is like someone is trying to slice you in half and I was like you know I'm too old to um denigrate my body in that way so we were trying to think of alternatives I love a leather trouser I always think they're much softer obviously not real leather because

who's got the money for that and that is when the corduroy message from the friend came to my ears so maybe I need to try corduroy I think I think you should you're not listening to my people that was so on topic well done us we kind of need Ruchira here to just keep us honest we had such good intentions when we began we've gone so off pace okay well anyway do let us know if you do get that back to school feeling and how old you are because i don't want to feel like we're just two old hags heading into autumn with our little smiggle bags um and if you have any resolutions any tips for making this like a positive season and just harnessing that back to school feeling

for good let us know on instagram at everything's content pod from hags to fags kirstarma is set to ban smoking outside pub gardens nightclubs and football stadiums according to leaked government plans. So the proposals would potentially prohibit tobacco use outside of pubs and restaurants, including on pavements. And the restrictions would come on top of existing plans to gradually outlaw smoking year by year. Smoking is bad. We all know this, but the reaction online has been a lot of outrage from smokers and non-smokers alike. Tom Harwood tweeted, I don't smoke. I've never smoked, but I love a smoky hour and a night out. It's the place for

good chats, phone signal and eardrum rest. I can't see it being the same if it's devoid of smokers who tend to be disproportionately fun people. I'm completely inclined to agree. What is your initial reaction to this devastating news, Beth? I was quite horrified it just felt like yet another overreach and another like little pleasure in our lives being snuffed out i i can't remember who tweeted this or exactly what it was but someone was like banning smoking in pubs you might as well ban stars from the sky i'll find it and i'll put it on our instagram it was so funny but my initial reaction even as someone who has long since given up smoking or like being like a serious career smoker it did something did not sit right I felt my patriotism which is so normally dormant kind of rising up be like we we need this we deserve it you will take it from my cold dead hands I mean

I've had time to think about it and I don't I don't know maybe you'll change my mind but I'm slightly coming around to it I will say oh really okay so I also used to be at one point in my life I was a 20 day full-time smoker um and I'm not anymore but I will if someone offers me a vogue I will take it gratefully and gladly actually when we were in Porto we bought these vogues that were like extra they were so light they were like the lightest cigarettes to the point where that our friends that weren't smoking were like I don't actually think you guys are smoking because it doesn't smell of anything and it was so hard to inhale because it was just I don't know there's anything in it anyway so they were fun it was like a placebo cigarette

loved those um I've been thinking about this so much first of all I think it feels slightly dystopian because it feels strange to I think what I hate about it is smoking is obviously an addiction and it disproportionately does affect more people in more disadvantaged like socioeconomic backgrounds and stuff and it's something which humans over the course of generations have been trained to become addicted to because of massive advertising campaigns and because of government legislation. There was a time when smoking was prescribed for illnesses and stuff. So it feels quite victim blaming to be like, we have got tons of people hooked on this drug. We have made tons of money from selling these cigarettes.

They make so much money off the back of them. And now actually, now you're all hooked. it's very hard to get over a smoking addiction I do think it's dying out in younger people but I think for people that do smoke I think taking away their ability to smoke outside of pubs is just I don't know I feel like it's attacking the wrong person and the wrong place I understand wanting to cut down on new smokers, which is like the legislation they're bringing in, like they have in Australia, which is if you were born after a certain year, you're not able to buy cigarettes. I think that's great. I wish I had never started. You know, it is a slippery slope. It's very hard to get rid of a nicotine addiction.

But I think for people that already smoke to curb where they're allowed to do that in outdoor public areas, something about it doesn't sit right with me i understand it's unhealthy but i don't think that's really what this is about it just feels like taking away freedoms from people that like you said it is a simple pleasure yes it's unhealthy but there's loads of unhealthy things that people can do i think that's a very very good point and especially because yeah they're framing it as we're doing this we're thinking of doing this because it's all like he he i think he was in scotland he didn't deny it he didn't confirm it they're looking at it and the reason they're looking at it is to curtail the

pressure on the nhs and i think if you're looking at that it is one place to start and it's they do these kind of obesity initiatives they do all of these things and the point is the best way to ease the pressure on nhs and make the country healthier is to tackle levels of poverty so it does sort of feel like they have and maybe it's the media and and us sort of um zeroing in and blowing up and doing a little culture war and kind of getting caught in the weeds but i do i i actually do really agree that again it just targets wrong people and I mean it's a smoking it's just you know it's a pub beer garden it's outdoors I think some of it makes sense they're like you wouldn't be able to smoke in really little parks or outside of

school and you go don't know many people that are but it's kind of a great social um rule to just not smoke near children things like that but in But in a pub, beer garden, it just feels like a very, the two feel tied together for me, even as a non-smoker. And I don't, I can see why people are like, are you fucking joking? I mean, between like not getting Oasis tickets and this proposed smoking ban, there's like a demographic of like dads over 50 in this country that are having just the worst worst week I think that point about poverty is so true as well because also we're also seeing more and more things come up about how we're going to be going through a tough time there's going to be more

austerity there's going to be more economic pushback where people are going to be struggling and in times like that people do reach for easy dopamine rushes and comforts, which might be through alcohol or drug use or cigarettes. I'm not saying that's good. I'm just saying if you want the nation to be healthier, you have to give them access to be able to achieve healthier ways of living, which if people are overworked and underpaid, you're not going to be choosing, I don't know, a really expensive gym membership over a packet of cigarettes that might help you elevate stress. Again, I'm not saying it's good. It just feels like it's kind of like a plaster over a wound, which is caused by loads of government issues. The other thing I was going

to say, which is slightly different was, I think that I, so I love sitting outside and when you're on holiday in Europe, you will almost always sit outside alfresco dining because the weather's more temperate and it just seems to be like a cultural thing. It's kind of weird to sit inside a restaurant. Normally the insides of restaurants abroad aren't nice, but the outside's be gorgeous. In the UK, because the weather's not that nice, really the only reason that people do choose to go and sit in beer gardens is because a couple of people are smoking. And it means that the beer gardens in the summers are full and in the winters and it means that we do get a bit of outdoor time i do wonder what is going to happen when you aren't allowed to do that because people aren't going to want to drink us especially because obviously we know when people drink they're

going to want to smoke more it's going to impact pubs disproportionately which are already failing and that's really sad because pubs are such like a quintessentially british thing they're so much part of our heritage and our culture they're so much about socializing and it's just going to hit those people that are pub landlords and pub owners really badly and actually what is it going to cause a rise someone was saying maybe it'll cause a rise in like underground raves i think like pushing it's not i really don't think it's going to stop people that already smoke from smoking they're just going to go and find a new place to smoke which will maybe be their own gardens if they have them or yeah underground raves yeah how are they going to police that like

i feel like my muscle memory is if i'm in a pub beer gun and there's a pack of bnh like are they gonna have a guy with like a fire hose being like i saw you reach for it that seems ridiculous to me um i do so i was reading about like yeah pub closure and stuff because we have lost so many i knew it was quite bad but i was reading between 2000 and 2019 i think 22 of pub numbers declined by 22 which obviously translates to just thousands and thousands and thousands of pubs which closed in a country that loves the pub and these like independent pubs um so i think people's fear is not misplaced although i did also read um the world health organization concluded in other countries that kind of um increasing smoke-free areas does have like a big economic impact but i think you're not thinking about the uk where yes the

weather is shit and we do i go i wouldn't sit outside that pub one if no one was smoking and two if i couldn't have a cheeky drunk cig so i do i need to read i'm not a kind of numbersy person but i need to read more on that because i think that has been the big argument on the side of not doing this it hasn't just been like the civil liberties thing it's also been like let's think about the health of our economic health and the health of and survival of pubs so I'm very interested to see like more findings on that because I maybe I wouldn't mind so much if I didn't think that it would just have a an effect on an industry which already has been battered by COVID battered by the cost of living crisis

I think that would help change my mind I agree I also think it's because I genuinely do what I wish that smoking didn't exist I think what I find really difficult is people do have these addictions and it's so hard to quit them and when people have so many things that aren't made easy for them, like there is very little work going around. There's very little money. People are really struggling. It feels like in order to help people and help people's health, you need to be boosting education, be like supporting single parent families. You need to be helping people have better access, like making food cheaper in supermarkets, making teachers paid better, doctors paid better, wait times for the

NHS shorter, making education better. All of these things help people to make better life choices when you're feeling more well in yourself because you have all of the building blocks that can sustain a good life. You're more likely to be healthier and I remember years ago I interviewed Josh Woolrich who's a doctor and he was talking about how they always say that smoke often smokers demographically will they'll say that they have the least healthy lives but actually when you really go into that the heavy smokers often what is also causing them like the comorbidities of their ill health are that they perhaps live in in very impoverished areas they're very lonely maybe they don't have a big support

system it's so much more about the things that go around what causes people to smoke what causes people to smoke heavily are also massive contributors to ill health beyond just the smoking it's like what so i just think it feels a bit like a red herring. And I think it's like a really easy thing because we all know that smoking is bad. But there's so many ways that the government and billionaires and just awful people are impacting people's health and mental health

and livelihoods way more beyond a cigarette in a pub garden. And that's why it just frustrates me because I think it feels like such an easy target and it's actually really lazy. I agree because I think it feels like such an easy target and it's actually really lazy I agree completely and I do and it's like drinking as well like there's there are so many things that we do do which as adults we know are bad and we do them because we're free-thinking tax-paying um adults who are imperfect um did you see though esther mcveigh's tweet about this where she invoked that poem about the holocaust and got a lot of back so it's the conservative mp um esther mcveigh tweeted an excerpt from a poem which you'll know called first they came um which is a very famous poem

about the holocaust first they came for the communists they did not speak out because i was not a communist etc and it ends with then they came for the communists, and they did not speak out because I was not a communist, et cetera, and it ends with, then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me. And she wrote under that pertinent words, Ari Starmer's smoking ban. So I'm not, I'm literally quoting her directly,

and unsurprisingly, people were really unhappy about this. She then said she was not comparing anything with the Holocaust, but wouldn't be bullied into removing the tweet. I said that people were twisting her words. But I mean, it's quite difficult to suggest that they were twisting her words when she said pertinent words in regard to smoking ban and then had used that poem about the Holocaust. So I think on the one side, you've just got people take it too far and being not level-headed about this and then you have people willing to have like I think quite measured conversations about it but yeah I saw that and I was like things are going a little bit cuckoo bananas please do let us know your thoughts on

the smoking ban we are open to all opinions we are all ears and we want to know what you think so a lovely listener of ours amina sent us a message on instagram a couple of weeks ago with a link to an article from the cut called why exactly are friendship breakups so brutal and so this topic this this next topic, was her suggestion, because after reading it, we immediately wanted to talk about it. So one, thank you to Amina, and two, thank you to everyone who does send us suggestions. We do read them, we love them, and they do help us curate the show. So please do, if you see something and think of us, send over. over onto the piece the full title is why exactly are friendship breakups so brutal what psychology can tell us about this particularly haunting sort of heartbreak it was written by melissa doll who is a health journalist for the cut and in it she speaks to experts psychologists researchers brain scientists she speaks to brain scientists that i feel like there's a real word for that i'm not going to look it up um she's neuroscientists yeah probably that's the one she speaks to people who have been broken up with by friends um who have broken up with friends and just explores this pain which i guarantee everyone listening to this will have experienced one time or another, maybe you're going through it right now. And it doesn't get the airtime or the exploration, I don't think, that romantic

breakups get. And that is fascinating. And the piece I think is fascinating. And it just opened up a lot of questions and thought about the ends of friendships, how we see them in the media, on reality TV shows, in in literature how we have lost friendships in our real lives and the toll of that and how we feel about it all now um so and only having read the piece i'm going to ask was there anything in it that surprised you or maybe disagreed with or thought was particularly interesting? The piece at the end actually really put my back up because I kind of disagreed because it ends on this thing that's basically like, I actually think you shouldn't really confront your friendships.

If it's not working out, just let it fizzle out and just leave each other in the ether. And then I wondered if that's because friendship is such a broad spectrum in terms of like how you're defining it. And I guess you could have friends that maybe you're not that close with, but like my friends. And when I say my friends, I mean those women that I have in my life that are my sounding boards, that the shoulder I cry on, that the people I go on holiday with, they are the loves of my life. I can't imagine ever abandoning one of those women, just letting them fly off then again there have been people that have come into my life maybe later where we've like had almost like a fling of a friendship and then the sparkles worn off you know the lust of the friendship has gone away and

maybe actually we're not that aligned and we kind of mutually just let that fizzle but actually some of my best friendships have gone through moments when one like my friend has turned around to me and been like you're being an absolute cunt like I remember at uni Poppy one of my best friends was like you're being so insufferable I actually think I was going through a bout of depression but didn't realize it and I was being really quite nasty or just really like self-absorbed and it completely brought me out of it she like shouted at me for like 20 minutes and I was like shit you're so right and it kind of made me really reflect I actually started journaling and I was like god I've really let myself get into my own head and my own negative feelings about myself

are like bleeding out and it's made us like I don't think we'll ever not be friends and then Grace who I live with we've had some amazing arguments over the years and it's just made us better friends so I was quite shocked that there was this idea I think the writer of the piece says that one time she told her friend that they'd hurt her feelings and the friend was really taken aback by it and didn't like it and I was like I can't I don't maybe I just have friendships that can withstand confrontation or maybe I'm just really comfortable with confrontation but I think like a romantic relationship a real friendship takes honesty and your friendship able to hold a mirror up to you and you shouldn't be able to treat friends in whatever way without

being held to account I think I've learned so much from my friends and vice versa by us being like look actually the way you're acting now or the way that you treated this person or I really value the honesty of my friends so that was my I thought it was interesting but I disagree yes I think some bits agree completely really rubbed me the wrong way and I think it's the assertion that and like letting friendships end in mystery is the healthiest thing and maybe sometimes that is the case but we don't fight I think we don't fight for friendship enough I think we do have a gentle hand with it and I I think our unwillingness to, as you say, confront our friends and be confronted by our friends does mean that we drift from people,

we lose connections and we sort of go, oh, it's weird that that happened. Whereas in a romantic relationship, whether it lasts forever or ends, I think you will at least have fought for it on multiple occasions. So you can kind of give yourself that closure whereas i think i've had a few friendships and maybe one friendship actually one very close friendship end in like a fiery argument we never we didn't speak up to that the rest of them have gone quietly and i think that will probably in like the last days of my life i think that will stick with me i don't think i will look back and go, God, I didn't try enough in this romantic relationship. I think that will be the haunting thing. And I think there's a part of the piece where she talks about how we perhaps

should adopt a more confrontation-based model with our friends rather than just going, oh, okay, I guess I'll swallow that gripe because I think that is what forces apart from our friends so I think arguing with your friends I didn't do this for ages I just did I was a real like either blame myself or simmer which is not healthy and then my best friend I think the first time we had like a proper scream not screaming argument like shouting at each other just really frustrated i i was obviously like upset and whatever but i was also like oh my god i'm i'm gonna be friends with this person forever now this is the decider this we just had too much red bull and we were drunk in paris we'd gone to see macklemore and i just think yeah the red bull had made us insane

but we were like really cross with each other but there was no moment where i was like yeah anyway i just think love is when you can be properly annoyed with someone but no you're holding each other to account you will be fine in the morning you can repair this versus other friendships where i think if they like were snippy with me i'd be like i will not be talking to you again and it's not it's not healthy at all no and also that's what i found so interesting about the piece because she talks about how she's written about psychology fears and I really agreed with that middle section where she was saying I think that one of the most awful

things is when you're ghosted by a friend and you don't know because I have had that once where I had this girl and we were really good friends for like we'd been friends and we've come really close and then just slowly she stopped replying to my messages and I remember having the worst anxiety so I would like kind of reach out then she'd suddenly mess with me be like miss you or send me a voicemail I was like okay it's fine then it would carry on and I was tearing myself up probably for like a year so one day I sent this really long message like just want to know and she was like oh my god no not at all but it was so insincere like she obviously did have something she just didn't want to say it and at that point I just had to and now I've like made peace with it but I still think I still wonder what it was and wish that she'd been able to say even if it was

something really unkind whatever it might be I wish that she'd been able to say it to me because I'm I actually like actioning things that my friends tell me like I'm really receptive to feedback and I want to know because sometimes you don't know how you're being perceived and like it's useful I also wonder if it's maybe because I do feel like sometimes not diagnosed with this but I do can do things in a way that I think translates as quite like neurodiverse like I wouldn't always be aware that I've said or done something wrong so I find it really useful when someone's like when you said that that was like actually quite weird because I'm like oh good I'll make I'll like make note of that. But also, and this is something I can't remember.

I think it was around like 2018, 2019. I can't remember what it was. I don't know what I was reading, but there was something where I really learned to understand how to apologize and how to accept feedback with grace. And so if someone said to me, it really upset me when you said X, Y, Z, I will now always go, I'm so sorry I made you feel that way. Thank you for letting me know. And then it's done. But I think we have a problem with accepting because it doesn't always have to be done. If you know that someone's going to respond to you like

that, it makes life so much easier because it means you can say, you know, yesterday when you brought up that thing, I actually feel really self-conscious about X, Y, Z at the minute. And it really kind of triggered me when you said that. If you know your friend will turn around and be like, oh my God, thanks for letting letting me know I hadn't quite realized you're so right no worries that is confrontation but that's just good confrontation and I think we don't understand the art I think sometimes when we think of confrontation we think screaming shouting having an argument but if you know that everything you're going to say is going to be taken in peace and love and received I think that is the foundation of friendship

I don't think it's good do you know what I mean I don't think it's good to be taken in peace and love and received i think that is the foundation of friendship i don't think it's good do you know what i mean i don't think it's good to be like i can't tell this person they've hurt my feelings so i'm just gonna make them go away because i think most people most humans want to know when they've hurt you and want to be able to prove that they didn't mean to do that and that they won't do it again totally i think that's such a good point i think essentially it's the it's the opposite of avoidance is confrontation. It's confronting that there's an issue, which is so normal in any relationship. We are not born knowing how to be with one another. We're not born blamed for everything in the world. When someone comes to you and points out something that you've done that did hurt them, I think it's very easy to then go into self-hatred or denial or want to push it away. Whereas actually in a loving friendship, when someone says that, all they're doing is giving you the tools to love them better. It's an act of love to say to someone, if you treat me this way versus this way,

our relationship will suffer. I think it's such a loving thing to say to someone if you treat me this way versus this way our relationship will suffer i think it's such a loving thing to say to someone this hurts me this way because none of us want to hurt each other um and it also invites you to say it back it kind of makes the space a lot safer for you then to say i want to alter it because it's often really an easy thing it's like not making like some people love to make fun of each other. Some people's love language is like taking the piss. Other people, that really hurts them. And it's so easy to be like, oh, well, with this person, I'm not going to do that one thing. And our friendship will thrive. So I think if you reposition it in your head as like, this is a loving act to tell someone

gently, this is how you've hurt me. It gives them a script for the future. It makes the relationship stronger and safer. I think I've realized this in my life way too late because i am really sensitive and i did immediately then just go oh great i guess i'm a terrible friend instead of just saying thank you for this that was probably really hard for you to say it might be hard for me to hear but like our friendship will be will be better for it i just think we have to reframe our own narrative about hearing. It's not criticism. It's a toolbox that we're building together. I've spoken about this with so many friends and we all have said this now. We're like, I think a marker of a true friend that really loves you is someone that wants to help you

improve and be better. And that means giving you feedback on on stuff and I think I've grown so much by having some of these conflicts with friends sometimes someone holding a mirror up and being like when you do xyz and that dialogue is so special to have and I really have it with my uni girls like all of us are so that it's completely taken the sting out of it it doesn't hurt and it's not like we're doing all the time but it might be like I think when you said that and then you'll go oh shit yeah that's so true and I've learned now that if if it ever I also am just much less sensitive but I think I was maybe like 25 26 when I had that person that just kind of slowly slowly stopped talking to me I've now just realized that that you just I think you if you really value someone you'll work to

keep them around and if actually someone is indispensable to you you won't I think you, if you really value someone, you'll work to keep them around. And if actually someone is indispensable to you, you won't. And if you're indispensable to someone, then I think you have to not, you have to try and not feel anxious about it and just realize that not everyone's going to invest in you and you can't be invested in everyone else. And so if you're able to, you just have to let it go. And I've got much better at that. I actually do find it much easier to not take things personally. People are busy. They have stuff going on in their own lives. Sometimes it actually isn't about you even though it's can be painful sometimes it is very much like they've got their own shit going on but I think that takes a lot of work and introspection and also loads of self-belief and self-confidence and self-love to go this person's

abandoning me and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna take it personally I'm gonna allow them to leave that's quite hard I think it's so difficult. I think, and with my few friendships, like close friendship that have ended, I wonder if this is the same with the one you mentioned. Like I dream about them and they talk about this in the article. And I think it's like way more painful to dream about an ex-friend than it is to dream about an ex-partner. I find it like, it's always centered around like, it's always in the context of oh my god we weren't friends and either we're friends again or we're still not friends and I'm like what part of my subconscious is it trying to teach me a lesson is it just like I think it's so painful I think

it's especially like as we've said we've worked on these friendships they occupy a space in our lives that is so unique I think to lose that I think grieving a friendship takes years I think to lose that, I think grieving a friendship takes years. I think maybe initially it maybe isn't as painful, but I think long-term, I think it's so painful. I don't know how to really get over that healthily. I think there was a really interesting thing in the piece, which was so true, which is when you have a romantic breakup, all of your friends will rally around you. Everyone knows the language of it. It's very much like you're going to grieve. Don't worry. It's not a failure. That relationship just didn't work out and you're going to move on because I think if you operate under monogamy a relationship is somewhat replaceable it's like you're always seeking it's just like oh they didn't work out

but with friendships because you can have tons of friends at any one time when you lose one it's not like okay well then I've just got to go and find that other Emma or Sarah or Lucy it's like they are gone and that is a really specific kind of grief and I'm never going to get that person back whereas with a relationship it's like when you do meet someone else or you do fall in love this again it's quite easy to then go okay well if I've fallen in love, then obviously there are all these reasons in hindsight why that didn't work out. But I think you do have with female friendships, especially all of my friendships have their own languages and slight differences. And I'm, and I show ever so slightly different parts of myself, myself to all of my different friends, if that makes sense.

So I'm always me, but when I'm talking to certain people, maybe there's a bit of me that I'll reveal a bit more to them or reveal a bit more to someone else. And I think that's what hurts so much about a friendship is maybe you were friends with them when you were going through a specific thing, maybe they taught you something and you can never really refill that hole with a new friend because you'll never have that same friendship. And it's so hard not to then take it personally at least with like a monogamous partner at least with yeah like a monogamous sexual partner there are so many really valid reasons why you know you when you break up it's if you are the only partner they have and you're they're the only part you have you kind

of go well that's fine but yeah if a friend doesn't want to be a friend anymore you go there's no limit on this you really must despise me and I think that's so painful and there is like you say there's no script around it I remember I had a friendship end with a man who I believed I we met on a dating app and then we genuinely became we would call each other our best friend and then our friendship ended I believe or he told me his girlfriend didn't like me and then we just drifted and I didn't tell anyone that this had really happened I was really devastated I was in denial about it I didn't tell anyone it happened for ages and then they were someone would be like oh how so and so because we used to spend a lot of time together talk all the time and I had to sort of I was really embarrassed to be like oh we're kind of not friends anymore

and explain the story whereas if I had broken up with a boyfriend the group chat would have been informed within mere moments and I think I had this weird shame with it I had no yeah I had no idea I had not been prepared by anything to like I felt really ashamed which I don't feel ashamed when someone dumps me but I was like oh my god I am this this is horrible well I think so much of it comes down to there's so much shame around friendships whether it's having friends losing friends not having enough friends not having enough the right type of friends it's one of the most common things that people want to talk about on Let's Talk About. It's like, how do I make friends? Why do I not have this group of friends? I think it all stems from school. I think it stems from

that feeling of like not being picked, not being chosen, not being popular. I think we've spoken about it before when we spoke about Eliza Clark's penance, where that awful feeling, especially as a young girl in school, where you'll have this group, there'll be a queen bee every other week, you might be ousted, maybe you're not in the popular group at all. I think we have lots of scars from feeling like we've not been chosen and the school environment. I don't know if it is just the way that humans bond as children. I really don't think boys do it in the same way. And I think that's the way that we're socialized as a gender. So I think when you get older and you lose a friend you're you're not

just dealing with that current loss but I also think it brings up all these ideas of shames of like am I not good enough am I not cool enough whereas with romantic love it's really easy to say oh we just were incompatible and that's fine one thing in the piece that I thought was very interesting there's one I think she hears from a woman whose friend sent her a letter being like, you say, you used to say, I love you all the time, but then you wouldn't act like it. And like, you got busy. And I just thought that was really disingenuous. And as someone who is a real, I love you to everyone.

I was like, oh my God, am I allowed to, is that misleading? I think that is what she said in the piece. Someone was like, it's really misleading that you say, I love you. And then you, you know, aren't devoted to me something like that and I'm like god am I being have I been getting this wrong am I not allowed to say that love you no it's so funny yeah because what she's saying she says I love you the time but then actually the actions aren't there not to go all love languages about this but I also think this is a massive thing in friendships of giving and receiving which again is something I've kind of

gone through over the years which is like I want or need certain things from my friends and they want or need different things and what we often do is we will perform whatever we need to our friends and then expect that back but that's not how everyone works so some people might be words of affirmation there when you're going through something always ready to pick up the phone but maybe aren't going to be available to always come with you to every event or whatever and so I think sometimes we misunderstand the way that we're communicating our feelings and that's why it is useful to have try and have like different friends for different needs and wants because we can't all fulfill each other all the time and I'm trying to even as I get

older learn that I can't exhaust myself because I'm such a people pleaser I always want to be doing everything for everyone because I worry so much with friends if I don't turn up to every single birthday if I'm not the most fun if I'm not the last one to leave then everyone's just going to stop texting me one day and they'll be like well don't want to hang out with Anoni anymore like I need to remember there's value in just being yourself and so I think especially if you're a people pleaser and you're friends with someone that is able to communicate their needs and wants in the way they want to that can feel like a slight when it's not and again I just think

part of the problem is we're not really taught about any of this in school which is fundamentally I think we should be taught like soft skills and relationships and friendships and how to manage people in like reception i think that's what they do at steiner schools i think up until age seven you learn soft skills communication relationships and then you learn to read and write afterwards because they say that's how your brain is like best developed which is so interesting interesting i i agree completely because i think i grew up i think my early, like my adolescent and like adult, let's be honest, obsession with romantic love was because that was friendship and also like female friendships breaking down because i think there's a there was an amazing um piece in the atlantic um came about four years ago called um i think it was like what if your friendships and not your romances were the loves your life so something like that and i think we're in very much in the era like we're reconsidering things people are not getting married young or even at all not having children

the same way not organizing their families in the same way i think we're in the age where people will genuinely build a life with a friend and so we need media to match that we need to i think we just are in a whole new era with like romance is not as romantic but our lifelong friends like are our soulmates and so in something like I always think about um did you watch girls and you that episode of girls where um I know it's been out 10 years but like don't do spoilers but like Jessa and Hannah I'm literally talking about Hannah yeah oh Hannah sorry that's okay they're all annoying um when their friendship ends I think that to me is like one of the most heartbreaking storylines. This friendship, like breaking down over a man,

all of the, and I think that was quite good representation. Although I think in real life, I don't think I've had a friendship breakdown for that. I've never had a friend like run off my boyfriend or anything. I think it's always something like deeper and more painful. But I think I'm really looking for better representation of female adult friendships especially as I'm in my 30s and I know my friends will start having more babies soon and that I think will be the greatest test of my friendships yet greater than Macklemore and too much Red Bull

I agree so I've so much to have for you said wow so about the representation of romantic love in media and us perceiving that to be the most important thing i think that was why i seeked out sought out relationships from such young age because i was like i just need to tether myself to one person and that one person will you know that poem that's like i carry your heart i carry your heart in my heart i was like if i just have this one other this soulmate this other half of me this completion me, then I can operate and walk through the world and I'll be safe. And actually more and more, every single breakup, every single time I've got deeper and closer with my girlfriends and I've realized that they're the ones that carry

me through life. And I'm so grateful to have had that realization because I really prioritized men when I was at school. I was such a pick me. I always sought out romantic love as the highest form of love. And it's really funny that now in my 30s, in my 30, I... Can I say in my 30s in my 30s? I guess, yeah, I'm a 30-year-old baby. Yeah, I'm a 30-year-old baby. And now I'm like, gosh, as long as I hold on to my friendships. And there's all these really interesting statistics about how a lot of the male loneliness epidemic actually stems from the fact that men are really bad at holding on to friendships, especially once they enter into marriage or long-term relationships. And that women are much better, I think, because of historically the nature of women needing to save each other and help each other and through being the more underprivileged gender, that we're better at having networks of people and support systems. And we tend to stay closer with our

parents and we are gendered to care. So even when we go through life, even if we become more isolated, maybe because we move out to an area, we tend to have a community in a way that men don't. And men suddenly wake up one day on their 45th birthday and are like, oh my God, I don't have anyone to call. And so I think that we really underestimate the importance of friendships and often are taught that you're going to have friends, then you're going to fall in love, you're going to get married, you're going to have a family, and then your little unit, that's going to be your ecosystem. But that's so isolating. And it's really important to try and keep community even when you get into relationships, even when you're married, even when you have babies. And I am the same as you, Beth. Literally

just saw one of my best friends in school yesterday. She's moving slightly out of London. My other best friends just bought a house slightly out of London. A few more have just got pregnant or are trying to get pregnant. And I'm thinking the next five years are going to be interesting because I'm losing some of my circle just by nature of them being very busy with children. Obviously, it takes up so much time and they're not going to be living in London. I'm really conscious of the fact that I've got to not let those friendships, because that wouldn't be a fallout. That would literally just be accidentally, oh my God, I haven't seen you for four months.

Yeah. It's the emotional decay, I think that's what it is and I don't always register this it's the that when you're not and I always worry when you're not constantly taking care of friendship that it will decay and and I think that's quite heartbreaking and it's in relationships people what's that quote I see everywhere all the time it's like a long-term relationship is like you have to love someone that every version themselves witness like a hundred deaths and births of who they're becoming and it's so true for friendships you kind of have to love someone at their like slutty party girl they're like obsessed with a boyfriend that horrible era we all go through that like marriage and like shifting priorities moving across the world all of these things and i think that is labor it's work it's not whoever said you know

relationship should be easy was lying it's it's work and it's labor and it's i think you know you've got a good friendship when you know that it's worth it and you know um and i in conversations with mothers they're like my friends think i've abandoned them. And I feel that they've abandoned me because they really, I am potentially working a whole new full-time job. I'm very lonely. I'm very hormonal. And their life hasn't changed, but mine has. So, you know, I think Dolly Alderton's first book, Ghost, she explores this, like two friends

fall out because one feels that the other isn't making enough effort to come and you know spend time with the family or understand that she's got kids and the protagonist is like i'm always coming to see you and the kids and it's like if you want a friendship to last in our kind of time of life obviously we are 30 year old teenagers and babies but you have to be making these like big sacrifices these like declarations of love and be willing to do the work and maybe very sadly some people are too busy or they don't want to do the work and that I think is why you go oh my god I haven't spoken to so-and-so the friendship has degraded and decayed and I think that is maybe one of my number one fears in my

30s now before it was in my 20s I was like what if I never get married and have a baby? Now I'm like, I don't want to get married and have a baby. What if I fall out of my friends? So weird how it shifts. Another interesting thing that's happened to me across the last decade is I had friends that I had been friends with for a really long time that in my mid-20s, I suddenly felt like there was this friction where we had changed, evolved slightly in opposite directions. And so there was no conversation that we were stopping being friends. It didn't feel like a friendship breakup. We just kind of came away. And then the last few years we've come back together and are closer than ever. I think that's another thing that can happen with friendships where you might go and do something and go off, but with really good friendships, I think you can

have months or even years of like fallow periods. And suddenly, whether it's like you both go through a breakup at the same time, or you both suddenly have an evolution of thought on something, you can come back together, which is a really beautiful thing that doesn't happen with romance is that that door can always be left slightly ajar. And I've got more comfortable, again, it's with age. It's once you notice patterns and you go through cycles, things start to feel calmer because I have had it where either it's me that's initiated or someone else. You can tell that you're both just like, I actually, this is not working for me right now. And then suddenly it'll be fine because you have to give people grace as well. And I think when people do go through

motherhood and parenthood, there might be times when you feel like you're losing that person, but life hopefully is long. And maybe it will be that you won't see that friend for a few years while they're really slogging through the newborn phase. And maybe you don't have time with your work to travel to wherever it may be that they live. But when that baby's three or when that mum, you know, has got a bit more free time, you can come back together. And I think making sure to always leave that door ajar. If the friendship hasn't eroded to the point where you'd actually dislike each other, if it's literally just logistics, remember that life is long and that you could end up being best friends again in your 60s. There's nothing to

say that you can't. And I think that is what's so special and magical about friendships that very, very rarely happens with romantic relationships. We've seen too many examples lately of couples trying to get back together jlo and ben affleck maya jammer and stormzy who else recently me not recently not recently for the last time yeah so i think that that's that's something really special about friendships is that also as you get older and i do think this is harder is if you have friends from a young age, it's amazing because you've seen each other grow so much. So that's really special. And it can be really special to know that you've got like 10 years under your belt or like often me and my school friends were like, oh my God, can you believe that that was 20 years ago? And that

feels really special. But some of my best friends are actually people that I've met now because I'm coming to meet them as this fully formed person who knows a lot more about herself who's much more confident who's much more comfortable in realizing what it is I'm looking for and maybe the people that you meet at this age will go on to be the people that you know are there at your funeral that's depressing your wedding funeral all the big things I actually think that is that is sums up. That's, I think, the perfect. I think that was gorgeous, I love that. So we would love to hear from you all about your thoughts on the article,

if you've read a friendship breakups in general. And thank you again to Amina for sending this in. And a reminder, if you do read anything, see anything that you think would be a great fit, please do let us know. We are so grateful for any and all input. Thank you so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast, please do share us with a friend and leave us a review or a rating, five stars. It's a huge help and we read and treasure all of them apart from the mean ones. And I know I said this at the top of the podcast but in case you missed it our instagram is at everything is content pod do follow us over there because we do extra content about the topics we've covered

we also love to chat to you all in the dms and the comments see you next week bye