Everything Is Content - The Materialists, Millie Bobby Brown's Adoption & Fatphobic Reality TV

Episode Date: August 29, 2025

Happy EICelebrations! This week on the podcast we've got... an analysis of the backlash to Millie Bobby Brown's adoption, our review of Netflix's latest reality TV retrospective and Celine Song's love triangle romcom The Materialists. Thank you so much for listening. Could you please gift us a review on Apple or Spotify and vote for us in the British Podcast Awards <3 xxxxxxIn collaboration with Cue Podcasts.Ruchira has been loving Eddington and The Summer I Turned Pretty; Oenone has been loving Zoe Kravitz and Harry Styles papped Rome date and Beth has been loving Love Is Blind UK.The Guardian: Fit for TV: The Reality of The Biggest Loser review – how did television ever sink so low? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Beth. I'm Rocherro and I'm Anoni and this is Everything is Content, the podcast that picks apart the week's biggest pop culture and internet stories. We tackle everything from red carpets to TikToks. We're running through the airport of content ready to make a giddy romantic declaration about pop culture to you, the listener, every single week.

This week on the podcast, we're talking about allegations of broke boy propaganda in the materialist, Millie Bobby Brown's adoption and one of the worst reality series of our times Follow us on Instagram at Everything is Content Pod and make sure you hit follow on your podcast player so you never miss an episode But first, what have you both been loving this week?

Should I pick on someone? I think I'm going to pick on Rootera. What have you been loving? Oh, that's good because I was ready. So I watched Ariasta's new film Eddington over the weekend and that is top of my list for recommendations I almost want you to go in not knowing anything about it if you don't know anything about it. Do you guys have an idea of the themes or anything for this one?

Not a clue. I had not even heard of it. So Ariaster, known for some of the worst horror films of our time, Hereditary and Midsummer, which they're amazing, but when I say hereditary ruined my mind in my life for a few weeks, I'm not saying that lightly. he's basically just created a new type of film that is like a satire kind of I guess like memory box but really kind of hamming up what it was like at 2020 when parts of America well most of the world really like just lost its mind and starring Joaquin Phoenix and Emma Stone as these like titular kind of American characters who fell into

various rabbit holes during the pandemic, whether that was, you know, becoming more right wing or falling for like the Q&N child trafficking, paedophilia ring conspiracy theory elements. It really goes in on very recent history, but the kind of wildness of what happened in that one year really and how almost like the domino effect between liberals and people further on the right, they were triggering each other. there's almost this shared loss of reality between every party. And it is just bizarre how this is probably the first COVID film that I've seen that I haven't just been like, oh, shut up.

I don't want to watch this and just switched it off. It was so good. The acting in it is impeccable. Austin Butler plays this like disgusting like snake oil conspiracy guru. He wasn't in it enough. But it is just amazing. Everyone is like acting 10 out of 10. I know you said not to know anything about it

but obviously I've just googled it Peter Bradshaw for The Guardian has given it two stars and called it It's a tedious COVID western Masked drummer and mutes his stars And he calls it bafflingly dull Which of the two of you

No disrespect to Peter Bradshaw I feel like we've been across at him before But Ruchere I will be taking We have what we cross on him for It wasn't about night bitch Didn't we get angry Yeah it was sticking his nose in As a man about motherhood

Peter Bradshaw Carrie Bradshaw's misogynastic cousin Oh my God. I just got to thinking something stupid, just shaking, please, Bradshaw. All respect to your work. This is a time when we must back our critics. But still, I will actually be going to see this. It looks great.

I'm also on the Wikipedia. I actually do not do as I'm told. Apparently, you tried to make this film before Hereditary, but then updated it more recently to be about COVID, which I think is, you know and you really want to get a project made. I've had this with books before. I'm like, I'll just keep changing it and then maybe I'll finish it. but Amanda, good. Okay, I'm going to go watch this in the cinema, I think.

Did you watch it in the cinema? Is it streaming? I watched it in the cinema. And yes, to your point before, it's been so divisive. I nearly forgot to say that. So many people think this is a terrible film. And other people think it's amazing. I land in the amazing.

But it is like, it's rare to go into a film, then come out, read the criticism and be like, oh, God, am I an idiot? But that really came to me during this. But I'm going to back myself. I really like this film. I also think that's really important because I think we have a bad habit now of like temperature checking everyone else's opinions on something. So you might read a book, watch a film, but I absolutely loved it. And then the minute you say about review, retrofit, and it's like, no, we're allowed to enjoy things.

Like, let's believe our own inner critic and not follow the crowd. Agree. And on that note, you've just perfectly built me up to talk about my second recommendation, which is another heavily derided TV show, which is the summer I turned pretty. When I say this show has taken over my life, my mind, my heart and soul and body, I, that's all I can say really, because it is objectively a terrible show. The storylines are insane. This one central character has ruined a family. She has ruined these two brothers' relationships for the rest of their life. She's picking between them.

She's picked between them for nearly five years now. There's still the two options of men she's picking in her life. Now she's engaged to one of them. it is a torture so awful to a family I can't even imagine but I'm really enjoying it it's so funny I keep saying this all over Instagram like I you it's almost convincing me because the other day there must have something happened to an episode I kept watching these wheels and getting really confused I thought people were talking about their own lives and they were like imagine two brothers and blah and I was like God everyone was having a very interesting romantic lies

and then I realized it was all about this episode which we won't spoil because a I've not watched any of it and don't know what it's about, but something happened recently I gathered that sent the whole internet into a tizzy. And I was like, perhaps I should start watching it. Oh, you have to. Everyone I speak to who is watching the show, they're like, oh my God, we've waited for this long for the series and it's just terrible and it's really frustrating. I'm like, oh, that's a shame. They're like, no, no, I love it. This is everything. Who's she going to pick? And I'm like, who's this belly girl going to pick? Conrad or Jeremiah? I've not seen a minute of this show. And yet, I'm Team Conrad.

Is that the right answer? Yes. Yes. Right. I said of history yet again. You've done it. Wow. It really shows the power of writing because in each season,

she's made one of the brothers just like a terrible person. And she's swung it round again. So the person in series two you thought was just a terrible person is now the hero of the story. And you want him to break up his brother's engagement. And saying those words aloud, it sounds I sound deranged but everyone is wanting this for her so but it's giving Jacob and what's the other yeah and Damon and what's the other one with the Damon and the Damien and the Damans from the vampire diaries is he called Paul no I think that's his

name in real life it isn't the actor's name but do you know what I'm talking about I know the vampire diaries but they certainly don't know anything about them so this is the thing we do love this where you like can't decide and also in a court of the Akitar series as the are they brothers? No. They're just fairies of the same realm. I really love all the boys I loved before, which was Netflix films rather than a prime TV series. Like I think Chen Yohan has got the source. I would consider reading this. I think if I was a teenager. I'd probably be hooked on this. I thought they were teenagers though. What do you mean? I'm seeing her like having a bachelor party. Like is she a team bride or have we skipped forward like 10 years? God, I'm so invested in this.

I don't care. I do care. No, now they were at school. Now they are 20, I think, and 21 and maybe 23 for the older brother, Conrad, of course. But yeah, it has been a storyline that she is way too young to get married, but alas, she's engaged in love and life is short. So she is going to marry one of them, I think. Well, life's so short she could marry them both. She could marry one, she could marry the other one. I know.

And like, this really has made me question some things about myself because I was like, is it weird for them to get into a polycule? Is it weird to get in a polycule with two brothers? And now I think that that probably is the best thing for her. Ritira, that is incest, I think, isn't it? That's kink shaming. No, because they don't have to be with each other. Oh, sorry. They don't have to be with each other.

Okay, if that is weird, maybe I'll cut that. Listeners, weigh in. What have you been loving? Anoni. Well, I'm so glad that you brought so much to the table because I've been running so much. I really have not been consuming that much. What I have been loving is Zoe Kravitz's dating history. if you may have seen on Dumas and recent pap shots.

She's been spotted with Harry Styles. I personally think this makes so much sense, but I also personally thought that when she was with Channing Tatum as well. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I think I'm kind of in love with Zoe Kravitz and anyone she dates. I'm like, fantastic. She's just got such a rich dating history. There was Austin Butler.

There was someone else. Penn Badgley, which I didn't realize. Oh my God, yes. She also always, there's this jewelry designer that I love called Jessica McCormick, who sells earrings that are like 80,000 pounds. And Zoe Kravitz always wears just out in the day these, like all of this woman's jewelly. So I just love her, I love her tattoos.

I love that she's snogging Harry Stiles. I mostly have just been Googling that. Sorry. No apology needed. I used to have the biggest crush on Zoe Kravitz. I don't know why it's like quietened down now. I think I'm just, I'm not in a crush phase at the minute. But yes, completely agree.

I think I've seen quite a few tweets. calling her greedy online and for that I have to say jealousy is not a becoming emotion on Twitter so you know don't don't get angry when people are filling their cup right to the top maybe you could too I think that's it isn't it your crush might have dissipated after the Will Smith's lap because that also did put me off of it oh my god yes that was why that's it that's literally it let's find the tweet she's the most beautiful girl in the world also it's so funny that I saw another tweet that was like wow, there's a whole other universe out there where like Gen Z are like putting screenshots

of Zoe Kravitz being like, this is the woman that Harry Stiles is dating. Wow, she's really pretty. And it's like, what? Like they don't know who she is? What Zoe Kravitz had to say was she posted a picture of herself on the right carpet and said, here's a picture of my dress at the show where we're apparently assorting people on stage now.

That is such a fever dream. Were we doing the podcast when that happened? I've sort of blacked out, but what? No. Oh, I don't think so. That's such a shame. It might have been when we were piloting, but I don't think we released a podcast episode. It was 2022, yeah. Oh, I wish we could go back in time just to sit together on the morning after that happened

and be like, and just sort of like hold hands and be like, the gods have delivered something excellent. Yeah, I love Zoe Krabbits. I also love all the memes that are like her greed sickens me. But it shows how much of a high standard we hold women to because honestly, that singular caption put me off her for like years. I was like, I don't like her anymore. It was really lame. It was really lame. Also, it's interesting that nobody's coming

for Harry Stiles' excellent dating history as well, a very rich, layered history of excellent women. I saw him rumoured with, and maybe we can't say this, actually, there was like a whole thread on Twitter about how he was dating Tracy Ellis Ross. Oh, shut out. He would be punching so high. I know. I was like, that would be the ship to end all ships, but it was unsubstantiated, But people were really like, yeah, I see it. What I like about Harry Stards is he has like very public, very short-term flings, e.g. when he literally just snogged Emily Raskolskine, apparently that was the extent of their whole trist. I really like that. He sort of like hard launches a one-day situation ship.

Oh, actually he doesn't, I guess. He's just getting papped. He's just very famous. He's not trying to launch anything. What have you been loving, Beth? So I have been loving, Love is Blind. UK version the second series is out now I think by the time this airs we might have the entire series

but the reunion which is really exciting and I was I was sort of thinking ahead of record I was like how can I justify this why I love this show in particular I was sort of like you know it's like a really insightful look

at modern dating but like I think actually I just love it because I love it I enjoy watching hot people flirt with each other lock me up I have really enjoyed this series I don't think it is

head and shoulders about any other series I think it is basically run in the mill love is blind but I love it I really I really enjoy also the fact that it started as this social experiment where it's like we're going to solve once and for all whether love is blind and very quickly we prove it's not blind kept making the show and now it's one of my one of my faves I think it is an interesting question like can we set aside you know what actually can we build in terms of the emotional when we set aside the physical and yeah it just ended up proving that like not not not so much but I do really like watching people fall in love in those pods and then meet

and then I really I love it when they don't have chemistry quite interesting I also love watching people like actually build marriages and long term relationships and like do these little negotiations and I think it doesn't strike me as the most toxic thing to like although this series I will say more than any other has had contestants even before the whole thing is aired take to social media to be like I felt this was badly I just did going on primetime TV to be like, no, I feel like I got the villain edit, which that is reality TV in its most modern sense. Like finally we have a right of reply, which has been a bit discombobulating because I'm like, my brain wants to believe the edit, but also I know not to, and now I'm

having these first-hand accounts. So it's quite juicy this one if anyone else is watching it, but yeah, I'm really having a good time and I hope everyone gets married and lives happily ever after. And yet I know they will not. I've never watched the UK iteration. something about the concept of people in our country signing up for something that feels so American. I couldn't get over the mental barrier of it. But how does it compare, in your opinion, to the US iteration? They are less gung-ho. They are very, very British.

And in the American edition, like they are day one dropping to news saying, I will never leave you. I will never leave your side. You are my soulmate. And I adore you. Whereas I think there's a little bit more, they're a bit more reserved because British people are reserved. and I think it becomes something a bit more charming and practical, which as a lover of like UK rom-coms and stuff of that ilk, where there is that practical gawky element,

I'm really enjoying it. I think they haven't tried to shoehorn in an American sensibility to British styles of love and dating. There are, you know, we watch one of this year's couples who I actually think were positioned as soulmates lovers, one of the first to get together, but might all fall apart. They were going on like a food shop, and one of their biggest disagreements

was about how they do the food shop and you wouldn't have that in the American one. The American one is like, I'm in this much debt. I've fallen in love with someone else. It's quite dramatic. Whereas this, I think it's more realistic. I actually think it really satisfies what I look for from these sorts of shows,

which is interesting considering how buttoned up people in the UK can actually be about love sex, dating, big declarations, walking down the aisle, I do think you get fewer weddings or potential weddings because people are like, well, we'll probably just date. And it's like, this is called Love is Blind, it's sight unseen, their whole thing is about the aisle, but nonetheless, it's scratching an itch. I actually think you'd really like it. Come over to the dark side, waste some more time watching TV.

I'll give it a go. Last week, Stranger Things star Millie Bobby Brown announced that she and her husband, Jake Bon Jovi, son of John Bon Jovi, adopted a baby daughter. In an Instagram post, she said, This summer, we welcomed our sweet baby girl through adoption. We are beyond excited to embark on this beautiful next chapter of parenthood in both peace and privacy. The caption ended, and then there were three, Love Millie and Jake Bon Jovi. The pair got married 15 months ago when she was 20 and he was 23.

She is now 21. Naturally, the internet has a few opinions about the whole thing. In the wake of the news, old interviews have resurfaced from her, including an episode of the Smartless podcast in March, where Brown talked about motherhood and wanting to start a family. Quote, my mum actually had her first child at 21, and my dad was 19. And you know, it's been my thing since before I met Jake, Brown said. Since I was a baby, I told my mum, like baby dolls, I wanted to be a mom just like the way mom was to me.

I'm one of four, he's one of four, she added. So it's definitely in our future. but for me, I don't see having your own child, you know, as really any different as in adopting. Earlier this year, Brown also told BBC Radio 1 that she and Bon Jovi have approximately 60-something pets, including dogs, cats and farm animals, which means there are several names presumably already out of contention, according to the BBC, including Bernard, which is their donkey, lemonade, their pony, Cardi B, unknown pet, slick Rick, unknown, and Norman a sheep. Have you seen any pushback to the announcement and what have you been seeing in terms of the chatter around all of this?

I have to say, I think I've seen nothing but maybe pushback is too strong a word, but I've seen questions. So I've actually just seen, I've seen a lot of women I follow who are perhaps a little bit concerned slash depressed by her trajectory and like the fact of it. Because she is like a very, very young woman who's been raised in the public eye. I mean, we did a whole episode about her treatment in the media that began with, like a paedophilic interest from men, weird harassment from meme lords calling her a raging homophobic at like age 13. Now she's married very young. It seems like she's always worked very, very hard and been worked very, very hard. I think the assumption is that she's the breadwinner and has been since she's a teenager. She's more recently talked about not really having many

female friends or any female friends, I think she said on, I don't say the Drew Barrymore show, but I'm not entirely sure that her bachelor's party was just her and her male friends and now parent, age 21. And I think sometimes that is like pure judgment and sometimes that is unfounded.

We don't know enough about her public appearances. She looks very joyful, happy, very sure of herself. I think there's just concern that hers is a life that has skipped almost entirely like the childhood portion

and like the adolescence with which are like really mess around and not be locked into something really serious, like huge Netflix show, huge production deal, marriage, a child. It's interesting, like, she has been a performer and like a public entity her entire life for like half her whole life, I guess, has been doing this. And now she's a whole parent, this huge life-watering thing. So I don't think it's just haters being haters, but I personally am like, I really don't have it in me to make a judgment or feel depressed about a rich person following the nose it's 321 it's not unusual to be apparent it's not and she's

doing it with a huge huge wealth a loving partner it seems and with like a real desire to be a parent so I think perhaps people are just a bit sad that she hasn't had that time to be young and free that could be projection could be unfounded but that has been which movie speaks to my timelines the majority of what I have been seeing what about you and only yeah I wanted to bring up that drew by more interview as well because that's kind of resurfaced and one of the viral responses to that was you're saying she should have been at the club I'm saying she should have been at a sleepover painting someone's nails while they watch music videos which takes me back to our bonus episode which came out this week with Alison Stoner where we spoke to the actor who was in

cheaper by the dozen step up about their experience of being a child actor and the interview with Alison's amazing that book is also amazing and I think it's probably quite a good access into understanding just how different the lives of people that grow up in the public eye are in terms of like forging friendships in terms of aging very quickly, maturing very fast. Like when we spoke to Alison, one of the things that really sticks out in the book is they were like nine and they're sort of really focusing on their career. Like your your life trajectory takes a completely different route when you are very much in the public eye. And so I think that there there has been a lot of empathy for Millie Bobby Brown.

I think especially since that kind of video that she did talking about the way that people scrutinize the way that she looks. A lot of people have kind of realized just how much pressure we put on young women. But I have seen a bit of sort of like armchair psychology on Reddit as well because people do love to talk about Millie Bobby Brown's parents allegedly being quite stage parenting, allegedly. Potentially she was kind of like the breadwinner of the family. She was providing a lot when she was quite young.

And so some people are saying maybe she really wants to start her own family because she wants to correct her way of parenting. And that is something that people do. I cannot, of course, be familiar Bobby Brown, but that is an idea, you know, that people who experience perhaps the type of upbringing where they felt like their parents didn't execute it perfectly, fill a calling to raise a child in a way that they see as better or fitter, but that's complete aspersions to being cast by random nameless, faceless people on the internet but yeah i've seen a mix back i think it is just from my own point of view i was a bit

like that's quite shocking but then she is a very unusual case of a 21 year old living life in a very different way that most of us won't be able to relate to yeah and i think i saw one tweet saying something like um the beginning of stranger things saw millie bobby brown have their first kiss on screen and by the time the final series rolls around she'll be a mother and I think there's also an aspect of her that people just really grapple with which is just understanding that she's just not the child that we used to see on screen right from the beginning this cute 11, 12 year old adjacent little girl basically who was this powerhouse on screen and I think it just it like ruffles so many feathers that we have which is the idea of young parents the idea of also child stars being thrust into working life so quickly, which means that they grow up in this rapid way. Also, the passing of time, the fact that she just is not anything close to what we still want her to be, which is like a small girl. She's just an adult, living her life and doing very adultish things. And maybe we're not

working our lives in the same rapid route. But I don't know. I just, I think it presses down on various buttons for people. And I do get it because it is shocking. I think what you said was right. when I first saw the news, I did have a gasp because it is just very surprising and I don't think we see people making those choices all the time. But I think it is interesting just the amount of commentary there's been and it does feel a bit disproportionate to what is happening a little bit. And I think it is the fact that, as I said, it's not just about her adopting. It's not just about her being 21. I think there's also some other things going on. And I also think the idea of lost youth in pursuit of settling down is something that, at least for me, I can't speak for other women, but it is

something that is an anxiety that it feels like, especially for our generation, we have actively, many of us have lived our lives very differently, choosing to stay single for longer, you know, not be in a long-term relationship from the age of 18, just actively pursuing life and maybe kind of pushing on boundaries that our parents may be abided by when they were growing up like my my mom had me at 25 I think so for me I've always lived with this kind of internal anxiety of like I need to live out my 20s fully because I really feel like it's important to live life to know who you are to only settle down right at the last minute when it feels like you know that you have milked all of your youth basically not to use a disgusting

phrase which I just did um so I don't know I think it is unusual to see people actively making different decisions on that front because it feels like now so many people are living in a way where their 20s are so precious it is this important chapter of your life where you become quite selfish in a good way have all these different experiences so it really feels like I don't know it ruffles so many feathers when we see people doing something different but as you say we will never understand what it is to be a child start I will never understand what it to have worked throughout my childhood, to have lost that aspect of youth. But it's interesting that despite having all my youth safe in the vault,

I would still want to kind of elongate that period of selfishness rather than undo it and live an adult life quicker, even though arguably Millie Bobby Brown is the one who's lost out on those years of just being the most selfish you can be. Yeah, and I was trapped in that same cycle of thinking of like, am I overthinking this? Am I being weird about this? Just something about it.

I went, wow, that is a really big decision. It's just very unusual. I think the adoption element of it is really unusual. And that's what has given people pause. There's maybe more leeway to be like, okay, newlyweds, things happen. Even if she said, no, I've been planning this baby. People go, you know, you got a bit carried away. Whereas this intentionality of it, it's a very grown-up thing.

It's a very, like, it's a lot of hoops to jump through to prove that you're a fit parent and there's a lot of money there. They both have family support, but also to prove I can raise a child. I can be entrusted with this. I don't know whether they went through a UK adoption. I'm assuming he's American. I don't really know too much about the Ponjovies. I don't know which they went through. I don't know about the process, but I imagine it is very thorough and vigorous. And I think personally, I'm trying to work out. I think because we're so poised on this podcast to think, okay, how does it fit into this current cultural moment with conservatism, tradwifery. And I'm trying to place her correctly because it's like, okay,

rich young woman, a young woman who's spoken on several podcasts, she is not giving up her job. She wants to be a producer, actor, hugely successful in her career, but also wants to be a wife and a mother and have this life. And I think it can be separate from the current cultural moment, but sometimes it informs it. It's like, these young women are often really fraudulently wielded by the far right as we see to be like, look at this. this is the life. And perhaps when she got married, they were like, young women, this is what you should be doing. You should be getting a farm. You should have an unknown animal called Cardi B. You should be serving your husband. You should be doing this. And obviously, that's not

what's happening, but it can be, it can be used. But then it's interesting to see, like, she's, she's not the post-child of the far right. And this decision to adopt, actually, the other side I saw on X, obviously, was literal Nazis. And they're making a lot of the fact that she's adopted. They're really disgusted by it. There's a lot of troubling going on in like a hideous, like white nationalist, biological essentialist, like pass down your pure genes type of way, hideous. But really interesting that it has inspired that kind of reaction, probably because they were quite keen to have her do their bidding almost as young, married at, when did she get married, married at 20, mother at 21, it doesn't fit their agenda. And I just think, may God protect

this young woman, whatever she chooses to do from this. It's another spoke in the wheel of like baffling behaviours about this woman. It's so, so fucking weird. Well, yeah, to get into sort of the darker responses and the pregnancy of it all, I also did see people being like, she's obviously used a surrogate because she didn't want to get pregnant and go through the pregnancy thing and the body changes. And then they're just saying it's an adoption,

which is just an absolutely mad thing to say. I think that it's interesting. She's obviously got a proclivity towards wanting to. to save and love and charity. Like she adopts all of these animals. She talks about them quite constantly. Whenever I've listened to her on a podcast, she's always talking about like finding these baby goats,

whatever it is and hand feeding them milk. She's obviously got a really strong maternal instinct. And I want to love and care for things. And I think that I think it's really lovely to adopt. I think her sentiment is right that, you know, adoption is the same as having your own baby. That being said, I think it's really extremely difficult to adopt babies. I think especially in the UK we have it's much harder to access. Like I think in the

US maybe it's more common slightly because of the more conservative Christian tendencies where people will more often carry a baby to term that they're not planning on having. So I think that there is more opportunity to adopt a baby as opposed to like a child in the US. But also it makes me think of kind of Kylie, Kylie Jenner and I was even thinking about Gigi Hed the other day because she's constantly being papped with Bradley Cooper, these people with this much wealth. I don't actually think Millie Bobby Brown will be like this. It sounds like she's extremely hands on on her farm and she's not working. But when Kylie Jenna had her kids, like she could also just not have her kids at any point in time that she needed to not have them. Like they can have 20 nannies and

a staff and a cleaner and whatever else. It does not have the same implications as a young 21-year-olds or in my case, a young 31-year-old. Like having a baby would bankrupt me right now, like a couldn't do it so it's just it's a very different set of circumstances that she's making and some of them I think are quite sad you know that loss of her youth but then there is a payoff there's like an equal and opposite reaction and everything and the fact that she deal all that work and her youth means that adopting a baby and then if she wants to go on and have a biological child with her partner or she carries on adopting whatever she decides to do that can all be facilitated quite easily by her own wealth and the fact that the Bon Jovi's, I think, are billionaires. So it is also, you've got to

kind of look at it in that light of sometimes when extremely rich people have children, whether that's biological or via adoption, they're not having children in the context that the general public are. It's an extremely different set of circumstances. The next topic, which was suggested by a listener actually, so thank you so much for that, is the new and explosive Netflix documentary Fit for TV, the reality of The Biggest Loser, which looks at the many, many scandals of NBC's smash-hit weight loss show, The Biggest Loser, which premiered in 2004 and ran for 17 series,

seeing hundreds of contestants attempt to lose as much way as possible over 30 weeks for a chance to win $250,000. And as has proved the case with so many reality TV shows, of this era, the biggest loser has been at the centre of all kinds of accusations about the creators, their producers, the hosts and the culture of filming behind the scenes. There are claims of drugging, of participants being encouraged to overuse caffeine pills to eat less and less to the point of severe dehydration and malnutrition, of black participants being edited and goaded to appear angrier, of a lack of aftercare that left

contestants with raging eating disorders and more often than not gaining whatever weight they lost right back. It's a three-parter. It's really explosive actually. And as someone who thought at this point I couldn't be shocked by the reality of reality TV. I actually was. I was hooked by this. But more than that, I think I was just really affected by it in a way that surprised me. And actually I wasn't really that aware of the biggest loser. I've never seen an episode. And I think we do have our own shameful UK set of TV shows that follow this same premise and also rely on the humiliation of contestants

and a distaste and a hatred for fat bodies, which we've talked about here. We had UOWE fat families supersized versus super skinny. It was just the norm to see fatness and fat people used. to shock on prime time TV. But this show, the things that were normalized and the things that allegedly went on, I found myself actually just so heartbroken by it. I personally think it was a great documentary. I've since seen some mixed reviews and mixed responses. So I wanted to ask first, did you think that this was sensitively handled and made? And what did you think and feel, maybe more importantly while you're watching it.

Yeah, I am really open to what people think about this, especially people who particularly feel affected by the issues who live in bigger bodies. I think from my perspective, I felt similar to you. I was really appalled and just like, I don't know, it really made me reflect on the impact that it gave to me. and the years of kind of sitting with the lessons as a child while I was watching this that have taken up until now to kind of unlearn those kind of messaging towards myself and the kind of easy disgust that was thrown towards people and bigger bodies

towards fat people and that shared shaming, the public shaming that was inbuilt into these shows that were distributed, you know, throughout countries. just rinsed and repeated over the series through shows like this, it was so shocking. And I think I knew some bits of the documentary. I knew that because of the starvation tactics of this show and the, you know, the punishing, grueling routines of exercise to the point of injury, starve, to the point of, you know, illness that many people, many contestants suffered with really horrendous health implications and then also many of them gained the weight back soon after because they had put their

bodies into these critical states in the pursuit of the money and these horrendous states that the shows endorsed and pushed them to that were not sustainable, we're not healthy, were just really punishing and torturous. So I knew that, but I think all the additional elements. And I think remembering, especially now in the climate we're in, which I'm sure we will get into with, you know, the pivot, the kind of reiteration of skinny bodies being the best bodies by the media and through fashion and all of those kind of big industries that affect body size right now. I think watching this now and I think having my adult self and a more compassionate self, who has unlearned the body shaming, not all of it, but I'm still actively

trying to unlearn the body shaming that I do to myself. This hit at a really important time and I think I had low expectations for it because we are seeing so many kind of, you know, lookbacks and investigations into old TV shows. And it's a bit of a trend at the moment to re-address lots of 90s reality shows and sometimes I just think what's the point of it because we know they're bad but with this I felt like there was a really important point and I'm really glad that they conferred to fat activists and important voices in the topic too such as Aubrey Gordon who is an amazing voice from maintenance phase so I think overall I think it's good but as I say I'm really open to people letting us know in the comments who have you know more informed takes on this to let me

know if they had issues what those issues were I really want to know what do you think anony yeah I think I'm the same as you I watched all of these kind of makeover weight loss diet shows I was kind of hooked on them as a child and because it was such a part of the fabric of our culture it didn't seem strange to hold up people in fatter bodies as sort of like circus acts people that we were able to prod and pick apart and what this show I think really highlighted was how much we completely dehumanize people in bigger bodies, or especially did back then. Like, it's like they're not even people.

They're sort of like, yeah, caricatures. And there was a couple of quotes that really stuck out to me. One of the executive producers and co-creators the show, J.D. Roth said, we were not looking for people who were overweight and happy. We were looking for people who were overweight and unhappy. And then the personal trainer, Bob Harper, confessed that producers encouraged contestants to push themselves to vomiting.

We wanted them to puke. we wanted the madness of it all. And those two quotes just to point out that what I think is really hard, like I now feel guilty as a consumer, but I was like a very young, I was very young when I was watching those shows. But it's the idea that in a world of intimacy coordinators and mental health checks and making sure that production,

you know, everyone on a set on a show is healthy and willing and ready, the idea that there were people literally putting people's lives, health, wellness, behind, viewership, the ability to get like viewing numbers. It's so inhumane and it just shows, yeah, the dehumanization of what does fatness mean in a society. It totally devalues you. It means that you're someone that can literally be kind of abused publicly on TV and be humiliated. And I think it's, again, you're right, it's totally prescient in this time of GPL ones. I'm sure maybe at some we'll talk about it, but Serena Williams, and that's a whole other conversation, but it's just done a

massive ad campaign for a GPL one company. And weight loss as sport, I guess, weight loss is something to be shouted out, something to be shared, something to be advertised, is coming back into the current climate where it has actually been very much behind closed doors. There was a few years when it was pretty much like off the table. You couldn't even say you wanted to lose weight for your wedding. You would kind of get jumped on. And so at the same time is it feeling completely starkly different from the reality that we live in now. Like it's so, shocking to look back on the way that culture treated people in those bodies. It's sort of like a full circle as well at the same time in a way that I can't quite,

we're kind of in the same place, but it's in a different font. That's it. It's in papyrus now. It's in comic science before. It is. It's repackaged hatred. There was a brief window where it did feel like there was a shift the way that we were talking about people. There was this moment of like cultural clarity that has been lost, not for one of huge efforts from fat activists and body positive activists. And I will say, it's Albury Gordon, who you mentioned Routura. I had not, I didn't really, I wasn't aware of her work, but she is like the shining star of this. She's a talking head who just, every time she came on screen, I thought, I am locked in, I'm listening, saying like insight after insight that I just thought with such clarity, I thought she was fantastic.

She says one line where she says, nothing you do in your life will ever be celebrate as much as getting thin as a fat person. She's so, so astute, and she also makes the point that in a show like this, the trainers who are screaming at the contestants, who are insulting them, who are pouring water on their head, who are getting up in their faces, also then the people that are entrusted with their, like, emotional care, which I think, I like to think would not happen nowadays, but there are so many stories of people leaving reality TV shows with no aftercare that I think the negligence is still the same. and it's just so disgusting and dystopian to see someone screaming at someone and then talking gently to them. It is the dynamics of abuse. It's saying, I scream because I care. I get in your face because I care. I'm the only person that can get you there. If only you worked harder on the treadmill, it wouldn't have to scream. It is pure abuse tactics repackaged and hand up, yes, for the show. But it's like the same people telling them to like under-eat to push themselves to consume caffeine in allegedly

problematically high quantities are then saying I'm so proud of you are then the ones talking to them about their traumas and one of the contestants Joelle who is a black woman who demonstrates and says look I was pushed a breaking point they wanted me and my my best friend another black woman to have an argument to play into that racist dynamic of I'm just an angry black woman and she was really it seems so much so mistreated on the show and she was pointing out that the root of her overeating was kind of this painful relationship with food was being screamed

at in her youth. And so when she would be screamed at again by the trainer Bob, there was no healing in that. It was basically just putting her back into that space that had created this wound. And it's like the impact of a show like this is not just potential damage to a body eating disorder. It's not just I'm severely dehydrated and I need to to rest. It's like emotional wounds that perhaps could then never go away. Like these contestants 20 years on are crying on screen about things that happened 20 years ago. It's like the duty of care, I mean, it seems like it was never, never taken seriously and it's really funny to watch.

They've got like the crater and the producers on there kind of talking their corner. And I'm like, that is, which is why I thought it was so balanced, because I'm like, you have people being like, this ruin my life to the point that I want to expose them. I hate them. And then people there going, oh, it was a different time, which I just think the balance of it is very, very good, but it is shocking the things that they did and said. Yeah, and I think it's so disingenuous of the producers to say that they couldn't afford mental health professionals and aftercare and, you know, to paint it as a money thing because 17 series of this show franchised, if I'm understanding it correctly across the world. I watched it as a child in my UK household. I don't think that you were not making a huge fucking ton of money off the back of these people. The fact that you can paint it as a financial issue is just. so disingenuous and I get they can't say anything more but I think yeah that really left

a kind of like metallic disgusted like taste in my mouth it's just it's not true it's just frankly not true and also I wanted to ask you guys about Jillian Michaels who I remember being absolutely terrified of this woman when she was on screen so God can only imagine what the people part of this show would have felt about this person. She obviously is like the kind of like deified personal trainer who like storms in and just starts yelling at them. And she apparently is not happy about her portrayal in the documentary and she's planning on taking legal action, including against her former co-trainer Bob Harper who does actually appear in the series and like kind of, I think has a go at explaining or just kind of, you know, listening to the feedback, which is quite

interesting. What do you think about her coming for the documentary in legal terms and not taking any of the accountability for the contestants literally speaking about their experiences during these run of shows? I wasn't really aware of her. I was watching her on this and I was really just unsettled by the willingness and the ease with which someone screens in someone's face. Watching the show in the first episode, I started to feel a little bit sorry for both of the trainers, Bob and Jillian because I thought, oh, in this case, when you're like the public face of something, you're often being used by the producers and the creators, your personality is being hammed up, you're given the villain edit. I thought maybe this is what's happening to. But as the show progressed,

I was like, no, this is vile. I think I've seen her on another TV show, sort of taking some scant, faint accountability for this. But it doesn't really feel like anyone thinks they've done anything wrong. Her especially, I imagine watching this back. I think of this when I think of like Tyra Banks on America's Next Top Model. Like you cannot watch that back without thinking you were awful to these women. It's like perhaps when you're making these shows, you think the culture will always be like this. I'm being rewarded for it now. That will always be the case. But there is a reckoning to be had. And I think it's a overdue reckoning. It's probably really hard to watch. But there are some things which I guess you can sue over and get litigious

over saying, you know, the drugging allegations, that is pretty shocking stuff. But like, she's there dumping cold water on people's head, screaming in their face, being like, totally abusive. I mean, at some point, I think you've just got to hang it up and be like, yeah, that was me. I did that. I was a part of the problem and just let sleeping dogs lie. So I agree.

I think the thing is, look, there's enough in the documentary that we, I'm sorry, enough in the show that is documented that we can say that categorically the way that she behaved to all these people is not, it's not okay. And I also have a lot of compassion for someone existing in a climate, doing their job, living at the time, you know, no one was calling it out at the time, really. Maybe they were, but it certainly wasn't like a commonly held believe. People really did think it was fine to treat people like this. So I would have a lot of space for her to come forward and say, I've reflected on what I've done and I feel huge amounts of shame for it. And I've learned, I was a product of the environment I was in, but I really, you know,

I would have space to forgive, I think, but I cannot understand when people double down and don't want to admit it. But then I do wonder if I cannot imagine the level of terror and shame I would feel if there was documented evidence of me being abusive towards people on television. Maybe that is just too much of a big pill to swallow because if you admit to it, you have to face up to it. And that must be extraordinarily painful for anyone that has like kind of any ounce of empathy or compassion.

So I do think I think it's a real shame on her part and I think it's like slightly embarrassing to kind of try and backpedal but I kind of maybe I'm giving her too much credence here but I guess it's extreme these things but it also it's like again I watch those shows and at no point when I was watching them when I was younger

was like anything other than it entertained really I didn't really see the problem with it and that's shocking in hindsight but it means that I can understand all. so why someone in that industry at that time might not have seen a problem with it either, but how she can't see it now, I really don't, I can't comprehend that. I also do think the kind of wider messaging of these shows is just the punishment element of if you want to look a certain way, you have to punish yourself and you have to basically

treat your body as if it is the worst, most disgusting thing possible and you're like whittling it into a good thing. And even just kind of the tactics and the kind of messaging of what it takes to become healthy, which is grueling torture. And I think that is so, so horrendous that one of the few popular medias that we had on living a healthy lifestyle was absolutely repugnant and just scientifically, dietarily, nutritionally, a mess, absolutely disgusting, not even and mentioned psychologically on, you know, body image, self-love, compassion, all of those things. That wasn't even present in the room of any episode. But I think the amount of people, alongside the horrendous treatment of the participants, but the people watching these shows, the

messaging they would have taken into their own lives, what they would have dealt with for decades after from just being a participant of sitting in the room of the show being on, that breaks my fucking heart. It's just like the impact is phenomenal and unimaginable at the same time. It is just too much to contemplate. Yeah, there's one challenge where both teams are told whoever eats the most food will get a chance to go home and see their families. And I think it's in those moments that the artifice of the show falls apart. You go, we can't have it both ways that this is a show about healing a relationship with the body and eating less and doing this when it's like, but if you eat more you can have this moment of like emotional peace where across this like

sixth month challenge you get a time to see your loved ones when you're already in like a you're training eight hours a day you're pushed your physical limit you are in an unfamiliar place you're getting screamed at you can see your family oh but also here's all these uh you know you have to eat all these donuts together it's so it is it's it's all the toxic parts of um what we know now and actually what these trainers knew then these doctors knew then And everyone knew then that it was unhealthy, but it was, it was ratings first. And I just found those little details, I just thought, reality TV is still a toxic beast, but surely never again, never again would we have something like that.

I mean, I live in hope. Do you know, I don't even think they did think it was unhealthy. I genuinely think that there is a real disgust towards people in fatty bodies to the point where people at that time didn't care if you were making a fat person. or a person in a fat body do things that are detrimental to their health to their body because ultimately being fat is the worst thing you can be. When you really read into fat phobia, it's so shocking the way that we, and obviously we do it to other marginalised groups and it's like it's not exclusive to fat people, but it's

the extreme way that people genuinely do, like, dehumanise someone because of the size of their body, it's like they're not valuable enough for it to matter if they're, if they're being put through the ringer if they're doing these awful things and i think that that still pervasively exists today deep down in many people but obviously thankfully the culture has moved on and changed a bit but still when you see people in these in fatter like not you know bigger bodies that we really see as like exclusive to what is societally acceptable there is still a sense of almost like yeah hatred and disgust and that's a learnt behaviour learned understanding that gives people licensed to feel like they can treat them however they want.

And I think that is what this show really highlights in a way that's quite unflinching and important to face because I think it's easy to kind of forget that that can exist to that extent. So it's the film that I think a lot of us have been waiting for. It's the modern day hitch materialists, which follows Lucy, played by Dakota Johnson, a New York City matchmaker who has successfully led nine of her clients to marry the love of their lives. And the opening scene was extremely pleasing to me because it was very reminiscent of the Devil Wears Prada. You've got Dakota Johnson swanning around New York in knee-high black boots with tights. And there's also like at the beginning I felt there was sort of like an essence of the worst person in the world to it,

like the kind of existentialism of Julie, that central character and that film which I loved so much. And basically, Lucy goes on to meet the perfect man in Emburtacombs, a unicorn in Harry, who is played by my personal boyfriend Pedro Pascal. He's tall, handsome, emotionally intelligent and sickeningly rich. It's the most important part. But she also, on the same evening that she meets Harry, bumps into her ex-boyfriend, John, who's played by Chris Evans, who is a struggling actor in his late 30s that lives in a very messy flat share and is sickeningly poor in the context of this movie.

And I think the premise is undeniably very promising. And it's directed by Celine Song, whose film Past Lives, I think we all adored. And so I think it felt like it was bound to be a hit. However, the reviews are coming in thick and fast. And it's been a mixed bag. So I really, I'm desperate to talk about it and desperate to your thoughts. We have all not discussed. And I feel like we've got some hot takes incoming.

I was a bit nervous to have an opinion about this film because a huge fan of past lives, huge fan of Celine's song actually have really enjoyed this whole media tour and the interviews with her I'm like you are she has one of one she's excellent filmmaker this film is visually striking and I think a real conversation starter definitely handled I just didn't really enjoy it I just it came together something really beautiful it's wonderfully shot it's thought provoking but I just didn't love it I didn't connect for it and I think some of it's like that's a mismatch of taste but some of it didn't land for me I think there are some really caricaturist scenes almost. So Lucy as a matchmaker meets all these people, meets all these men and women, and has these like interviews with them, which I think is meant to be, and I guess is the comedy part of this rom-com, which is not a rom-com at all, but it's kind of funny. But it's, I think it's too hand-up. I think they're saying things in a way that I'm like, that is, there's no versimilitude there. It's just a bit lost on me. People's quirks in dating anyway are so funny just as they are, the way that people think about love and think about their non-negotiables, because that's the premise.

of this is people are really rigid. People are treating dating and love matching as though it is like LinkedIn love match. They are like, I need this, this and this. It's like they're shopping for a house. And that's a big, huge part of the film. But I just didn't, I didn't like that. I also, and maybe this is a spoiler, but there's a scene where, no, it's not. There's a scene where Lucy is basically stunned to learn that it's possible that female clients in her industry, the dating service industry could be hurt or assaulted or, you know, insulted really by the men that they're matched up with, which I thought was such a moment of naivety, which I didn't think track for the character, who is so practical. She's romantic, but she's really practical.

She knows everything about love and dating. She's meeting with these shitty men herself and trying to mould them into something else or trying to find someone that is just right for them. A really savvy woman who spends all this time with women, bemoaning men, I just didn't. think that she would be that surprised by that. But that could be me missing something, a quality in her that is actually quite naive. But there were a few moments that yanked me out of the narrative and made me think, I don't know. But overall, I would give this a, no one's asked, but I would give this a two out of five, I would say. I haven't seen this yet. And I essentially have just been putting off seeing this film because of the really

weak response to it. When the posters first dropped, I think at the beginning of this year, and I saw the cast. I was so excited also at being Celine's song. I just thought this would be amazing. And there's a part of me that's just like, I don't know if it's worth seeing this. Because everyone I can see who's come back from it has been so disappointed. And I know I will eventually watch it. But I think that's really hurt the, you know, the like eagerness I had to like jump and like buy tickets in the first week.

also the second thing I was going to say is I don't know why they've had a staggered approach to the release of this film it came out in America maybe like two months ago so I already felt the disappointment from America and then had a triple disappointment of the UK and the wait time so I think they've really fudged it with the release of this

because regardless of what the film is like if they had it out at the same time I think it probably would have had like a huge reception and then whatever you know feedback came in after it would have been a separate thing. But I think so many of us have been exposed to the response already. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a few people like me who are just like, is this worth seeing now? But no and only, tell me what do you think? Is it worth me going?

Okay. So I didn't read anything prior to the film. I just got really excited because it had a cast of actors who I really love. And then a friend of mine saw it before I saw it and really loved it. So I actually went in with really high hopes. And they had me in the first half. I think the first 40 minutes, I was really enjoying it. I thought the vibe was beautiful. I love the cinematography of it. I thought that the character of, I think Dakota is an incredibly engaging actor. I'm obsessed with her face the way she moves it. I really was enjoying the clothes. There's a lot, there was a lot that I was enjoying. Then I felt it started to get a bit bloated and I was sort of like, oh, what is happening here? And the same with Beth. The messaging was just hammered. And I was

like, I get it. Because the first time they iterate this idea, it's quite, you're like, Oh, God, they're saying that the quiet part art loud, which is you have this kind of like list of criteria that you suddenly go through in your head and you, you know, you might meet the love of your life in a pub where you have this incredible chemistry and connection. But if you don't have all of these other tick boxes, then ultimately you'll never choose them. And I was like, that is interesting. And I think it's, you know, it's really reminiscent of dating apps. What it was weird. It was almost like Lucy's character is a dating app personified and matchmaking. But then it takes a very sense. serious turn the film is not very much a rom-com and I don't know if it had the right space to carry quite a heavy storyline it just sort of floated along it was a very long film as well it's like two hours and there was so much richness to it at the start and then I kind of felt I was disappointed by the ending I felt a bit in the middle I was like what is going on I'm a bit bored of this now and I agree it was very caricatured and I also took issue with but I understand that

Lucy, so Lucy does not own this matchmaking service, she's very much an employee and a very good employee at that. But she has these meetings with these men. And I was thinking, how realistic is this if you've got, there's someone that she literally calls like a white supremacist, a woman who comes in, she kind of, she says, initially I just want to date white people. And the character of Lucy tries to point out to, you know, so you're saying to me, you'll only date white people. And there's sort of like a knowing conversation around someone being racist, but I don't think it's handled that well. And then there's a guy who's in his late 40s who exclusively wants to date women in their mid to late 20s. And I was thinking how good of an agency or how modern is it? Surely

you would have parameters and boundaries, especially because of the part that Beth mentioned where she's surprised when someone treats them badly. Well, the people on your list are giving you massive red flags from the moment that you're signing them up. Would you not say, I'm so sorry, the agency is not willing to matchmake you because I think that your ideals or what you're searching for is actually, you know, outside the realm of what we're looking for, we're genuinely trying to make genuine connection. So I think there was a bit of like mismatch energy there where you've got sort of this very forthright modern strong-willed woman who's also kind of, but then it maybe is the complication of the fact that it's not up to her who she takes on as a client. But yeah,

there was just bits where I was like, I don't think this necessarily adds up. And it's a shame because I do think the premise was great. And I do think that there was real space for like comedians. effect which didn't come through and it wasn't a wrongcom. Then there was this sort of like really heavy element which I don't think was handled correctly and also kind of dragged out and the payoff wasn't good enough. And I also think they kind of shied away. If you're going to talk about something, I think use the language that applies to it. I felt like yeah. God, I have so many thoughts because again, I did the worst fast in the world as like one of my favorite films and there really was an element of that to it. And then it just, I think it was the film didn't know what

it wanted to be. Is this a rom-com with a happy ending? Is this a serious drama about, you know, kind of I guess about heterophatism and about the problem with dating and the problem with love? Or is it a film about this woman who's struggling with her? There was a lot of conversation around class in there and kind of the projections that we feel around class. So I came away just feeling a bit confused, I guess, ultimately at the end. I think the conversations about class and as I say, the ensuing conversations that Sillian Song is leading in her interviews have been the saving grace of this. And it's been catching a lot of criticism

for being so-called broke-man propaganda. It's also been catching criticism for people saying it's broke-man propaganda. And in a sense, I can see that because it presents a choice for Lucy, which is, I mean, she's like an ambitious, hard-working woman. She grew up poor. She now earns what I think is understood

to be like an okay but lower wage, 80-K a year. All the people in the matchmaking service are like, need 150k a year minimum for my partner. She's a lower on it, but she's on the up. And it basically presents her choice between a gorgeous, adoring patient, calm, beautiful, rich man and the other kind of adoring gorgeous, maybe a little less patient, but still adoring near enough broke man. And I think the arguments that have ensued is like, is it classist to say, obviously, you should choose the rich guy? obviously don't enter into relationship with someone who cannot provide

who may again lead you towards what is a generational poverty that you have fought to escape. And people are really fighting hard on both sides of this in a way that it's like, you never really get that with pretty woman. Looking at it through the lens of like, especially like she was a poor woman, what does that mean? And it just, I think it gauges the brain in a really interesting way. And there was a quote by Celine Song.

I think it was Elle magazine. And she said, quote, the truth is, the less you have, the more materialistically you have to think because every dollar counts. If you're very wealthy, money is almost like a fictional thing. But for somebody who needs five more dollars to eat, money is real. And that is very interesting. It reminded me of the quote from normal people where Connell and Mariana, I think in Italy, her family's place.

And he says something like money is a substance that makes the world real. It is like this inescapable fact. And the film could have made more of this, I think. But it's, you know, in a profoundly unequal society, It's the thing that, like, can move a person through and out of circumstance, can connect them with experience. I mean, I say she could have done more with this, but actually you see it. You see, like, all that she can do with Pedro Pascal's character, Harry, they can eat out, they can have these, like, sensory pleasures, they can go to interesting places, they can fulfill her dreams immediately. They don't have to scream at each other in the street about parking because they're both so stressed and tired of being poor.

And as much as this film is, like, about an individual making a choice, it also looks at what money means in, like, making a family and living. in the world in a non-materialistic way. And so I'm finding, it's a unique experience to be like, I'm loving the interviews, I'm loving the discourse, but actually the film, I could take, I could leave it. Well, I wonder if that means that it just didn't tackle those issues in the way that she's been able to in interviews, because I have seen people say that as well, where her viral, I think viral now, response to the allegations of allegations, the like interviewer asking her about what she thinks about

broke ban propaganda allegations in the film. And she says that she finds it really sad and very upsetting. And yeah, I just, I wonder, having seen a few people say they're surprised at her replies about how much class is something that she really wanted to pinpoint in the film. And people saying they really didn't get that come through as succinctly or as sharply as her interviews since. if that just means that the film didn't really address it in the critical way that she is able to

and the way she so smartly does in interviews? Yeah, I think so because as you say Beth, it is a really crucial thing and I thought that was really interesting when she was asking Pedro Pascal's character, you know, did your parents argue the street and all that stuff? Because it's the small, it's the ways in which money isn't about,

it's the difference between having money and not having money and being like comfortable are very different, like really not having money, not having money to do the day to day to enjoy life causes so much stress, so much pain. It's one of the biggest leading causes of depression. It causes like physical ailments of stress when you cannot like put food on the table when you cannot come to pay your bills. It's a bigger issue than being like, I want to earn money. And the amount of money that you do have to earn in this day and age is astronomically more than you did have to before. So it is a really real issue. But I think it felt slightly flat. And I don't know if

that was because the way that Lucy's character, she's slightly drolls, she kind of says stuff like, when I imagine my life with you to her ex-partner, all I see is are sitting at shitty restaurants, having shitty food and like going in a shitty car. And it's kind of meant to be delivered, I think, in this ironic, sardonic, straight-talking way, but it feels kind of emotionless. So even though the undertones and the understanding thing is there, it's fed in quite a basic way. And actually, the truth of that is much more complicated, it is really interesting to face up to the fact that it's really hard to be in a loving, happy relationship if you're panicking about whether or not you're going to be able to have

the heating on in the winter. It's much easier when you're surrounded by the comforts of not even just wealth, but like a good enough income to appreciate, oh, it's a lovely day. Like, gratefulness is so easy to access when you've got very little worries. And I think it was for comedy, but it wasn't, there wasn't much comedy in this film. But I think the, the humor was quite dark. But because, as, as, you know, actually what they were talking about was quite dark. It almost would have been better, I think, just to lean into it a bit further. So, yeah, I think I actually would say, Ritir, to answer your initial question, I do think

it's worth watching. And actually, it's interesting because it definitely brings up a lot of conversations. I think it's a rich story. I just think that it wasn't perfect. I think it could have been shorter. I think it could have had perhaps just slightly more of an intention. But I do think it's very prescient. I also think visually, I did really enjoy watching it.

I loved all of her outfits. And it's like a feast for the eyes. but yeah it wasn't there was something that was lacking there for me but I did think it was it was depressing in how much it's so basic but it felt true in terms of just hearing people talk about dating this way she's constantly calling it the math I was like god that is what we do like you might it's really ugly like you don't want to face up to it but it does exist there's no denying that this is kind of how we we face things but also there is this element of kind of like the gendered way that we approach things, whether that's like the way that men's value is

tottered up so much higher than women's, the way that women's value comes from youth and thinness and beauty and men's value comes from wealth. And that is interesting because that really feeds into kind of in cell culture and the conversations that they're having in those kind of forums. And then you're thinking it's not true to the extent that they're saying on there, but it's come from a seedling of truth. So it does point to lots of like big issues that are really vital to be spoken about and maybe are quite uncomfortable and it is kind of delicate because it does it does actually feed into or confirm narratives that exist in spaces that we absolutely do not agree with and I think that's quite fascinating.

Thank you so much for listening this week. Before we go, just checking that you've listened to our latest everything in conversation episode where we, well, Anonia and Ruchura, talk to former child actor and author Alison Stoner about their new book, semi-well-adjusted. If you enjoy listening to us, then please do leave us a rating and a review on your podcast fair app. Please also give us a follow on Instagram and TikTok at Everything Is Content Pod. See you next week.

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