Everything Is Content - The Oscars, Anora & Bringing Flirting Back

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

Happy EIC Day to all who celebrate & all who don’t! This week the show is sadly still sans Ruchira but don’t worry- she will be back next Weds. Running wild yet again, Beth & Oenone trade TV, book & Swedish pop recommendations before chatting everything #Oscars. What films have we seen, what moments did we love, who was dressed to the nines & who failed to fully deliver on the red carpet(s)? Next up we deconstruct the themes of Anora- feminist masterpiece, stymied by the male gaze or a secret third thing?And to finish we’re talking about 'flirting parties'- a fascinating new event as tested by Rachel Connolly for The Cut. Would we attend a flirting party & do we think society is losing its sexy bantering recipes?Follow us on IG & TT @everythingiscontentpod and flirt a little more in the reviews- 5 stars please ;) O, R, B xIn Production Partnership with Cue Podcasts------THE GUARDIAN - Rain Dogs by Daisy May CooperFABER - Universality by Natasha BrownCHANNEL 4 - MAFS ABBA VOYAGE ANGEL FOOD MAG - Romance Labor by Marla Cruz VULTURE - Introducing the strippers and stars of Sean Baker VANITY FAIR - Vanity Fair Oscar Party: All The Looks TELEGRAPH - "Anora is cringy and patronising"THE GUARDIAN - "Sean Baker's screwball Cinderella tale vaults him towards greatness NYTIMES - 'Anora' review: Her glass slipper is a Swarovski stiletto THE CUT - Does dating feel depressing? Throw a flirting party.THE LONDONER - Where are all the men? THE ATLANTIC - Americans Need To Party More Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Beth. And I'm Anoni. And this is Everything Is Content, the podcast for pop culture analysis, celebrity stories and internet drama. TV, film, tech, famous people, books, discourse, we do it all. We're the content glamour, giving you the 360 slow-mo lowdown on pop culture. This week on the podcast, we're headed to the red carpet to discuss the Oscars, it's underdog who came out on top, Onora and the state of dating. Follow us on Instagram at everything is content pod and yes we say it every week but it is still really handy. Make sure you

hit follow on the show on your podcast player so you never miss an episode first things first and only what have you been loving this week i am once again coming to you with a trifecta a triple threat no it's not ignore all of that i've got some so first of all after after i finished am i being unreasonable by daisy make uber which i loved i finished the whole thing i then watched rain dogs which is another kind of comedy drama of hers on the BBC have you watched it I've not even heard of it another series or a film another series I don't know if it's pre or post this country but it's so good it's about a single mom who is a sex worker who has like an eight maybe nine around that area age daughter. And she's constantly being put out of having a home. And so she's always searching for someone to live. And she's been sober for a while.

And she has this person in her life called Selby, who's kind of like a father figure to her daughter. Anyway, she lives in London. And it's just all about her constantly striving to try and like make ends meet. And she's a writer, but it's's I can't believe I've never heard of it I absolutely was obsessed with it and it's quite dark and quite heavy but it was such a good series and I just think you need to get on it she is really fantastic actually I think I don't quite know where Daisy May Cooper came from I understand like she was really hustling really working hard with her brother Charlie Cooper and then this country exploded and then she's doing these great projects but she is really really talented and I think she's got the range so does he actually because he's great and Charlie Cooper's great in the second series of Am I Being Unreasonable

he's very very funny in that whereas she I think she is just like she's actually one of our finest I'm going to watch this is it like a kind of um limited series or could you see more have you finished it I finished it there's only one series and I feel like it's quite old let me see I want to say 2016 I also what it made me realize is I bet she had done so much stuff before this country but it's just that that was the thing that did um they kind of broke her out oh complete lie sorry it was 2023 is it set in 2016 or something no i don't know why i thought that i've just completely made that up okay i'm definitely watching and i can take all of that back anyway it's absolutely fantastic and there's this act called jack farthing who i've not seen anything else he plays selby and i was just obsessed with his character um but no so okay

so that's more recent and but also i have to say in this she's very different from any other character like you really start to see the broad spectrum of her acting ability and she also wrote it she's just a genius so that is something that i would recommend to everyone and my second thing which is really random is i got really sucked into watching the voice on tiktok the american voice current series just like clips, current series. And what's really fun is you can see which ones have the most views and then you know it's going to be really good. So when it has like 3 million views, I'm like watching that.

Then I just got sucked in and I watched so many and it's really enjoyable and they're all really good. But what I found so interesting in the comments is every time I started reading them, everyone would be like, oh my God, I know him. He's my pastor's son. Oh, he's someone like everyone in America is sort of just broad sweeping statement. But every single time there's a good singer everyone in the comments

someone went to their dad's church so wait can i clarify you're not watching the show you are watching clips of the show i'm watching clips of the show on tiktok because you know i didn't have tiktok now i've got it well there we go end of my life and you make good tiktoks after saying you wouldn't like that well i just actually post my reels all right it's just the same stuff you're doing cross cross contamination i haven't actually done any fresh tiktok exclusives um so it's uh michael boobay john lennon uh what's the guy from maroon 5 called john lennon dead man he passed away sorry John Legend oh my god they have budget so sorry

no it is not it's not that sorry it's John Legend Mr Chrissy Teigen Michael Bublé the guy from Maroon 5 who actually is starting

to look like Simon Cowell he's definitely had some work done and then Kelsey someone who I believe is like a country singer anyway it's great that's

something to do if you want to waste your life away and just get sucked into an algorithm and then my last thing is Universality by Natasha Brown who's the author of Assembly it's a book about cancel culture and media and the state of current affairs kind of and it's a bit of a it's a quick read but it's a good one and it's smart kind of rubs you up the wrong way gives you a whiplash I'm very excited to read because I also got my copy of this because I think we want to talk about it on the pod and I looked at the size of it and I just thought I that is so pleasing to me it's so much smaller than all of my enormous dragon books which I regret even though they're really good I looked at this book and I went I know this is going to be a really really good read and I'm very excited I'm going to start it tonight, I think.

It's really good. And it's out now, actually. And also, yes, her last book, Assembly. Did you read that? I don't know that I did. I think it sat on my, it got kind of buried under bigger, hornier, smuttier books. I'm apologising to cerebral people that I'm like this, but I do have a copy of it somewhere. Well, that is also pleasingly so short so they're really smart and like intellectual books it's like you do have to concentrate but they're also like a pamphlet which I really really makes me happy okay amazing I'm going to do one to the other because I'm assuming I'm going to enjoy it because I think we have quite overlapping tastes well they are actually weirdly very different books from each other which is

quite nice because you kind of think I guess assembly was her debut so it's like will this be similar but it's kind of not anyway enough about me what have you been loving Beth um so this week I've been feeling quite disgusting so like just under the weather like I feel gross I'm kind of sniffling around the house like a truffle pig in a slanket. So I haven't been consuming the kind of height of culture, shall we say. Media has been thin on the ground, but I've got two things. The first is ABBA Voyage, which is the virtual reality holographic light show ABBA concert, which is in London, has been in London. I think it's been on for like three years now, two years, three years.

And it is just the happiest place on earth. I went on Friday night and it was amazing do you like ABBA I love ABBA I love ABBA so much and I'm absolutely devastated that I haven't gone to see ABBA Voyage I actually went to see Mamma Mia the musical with an ex's mum of mine really not that long before we broke up and one of the things she said to me when she was watching it was like she said something like this is never going to happen to me referring to the mum sleeping with like three gorgeous men over the course of the weekend and it suddenly really gave me this weird pang of like oh my god I don't think I want to be in a relationship that wasn't why we broke up it kind of it was his mum sitting there longingly watching

this musical about all these gorgeous town people on holiday. And I was like, oh, my God, what's ahead of me? Anyway, love, love, love. Oh, thank God. That's so funny. Yeah, absolutely loved it. This is the third time I've been, which actually doesn't even feel like enough times. I've been thrice.

I didn't know that. I know. I'm actually like a super, super fan. I went, I've been twice for my last two birthdays. I took my friend for her birthday. I'm already eyeing up who I can take next. So we'll go for your birthday which is this week I just like it's so so fun the tickets are not you can go on like a quieter night and it's maybe 50 pounds each it's just so fun they don't oversell it they don't as in they don't pack it out because I think they've got so many shows it's been on for as long as it's been on. It's a long residency, so they don't have to really cram it out like a traditional gig. So if you can

dance, if you want to be standing up, get on the dance floor. There's enough place to dance. There were so many glamorous, amazing women of a certain age, which I think we're trying to co-opt and reclaim that phrase on this podcast. so many like glittery they were hugging us singing with us it was just a real community feel it's just heaven on earth I think everyone should go I'm also hoping someone that works there is listening to this and can get us in because I would do anything just have like a season ticket we'll promote the podcast I just know it would be the best day of my life I would sing I know every single word to every single song oh yes it's honestly it's it's really bucket list for me I can't think of anything more joyous yeah they do

sort of look they look real as well like I won't spoil it but like I think the visuals are actually very good I will feel a little bit weird I think if they change it to maybe like a dead performer I think that's a big ethical question like there was talk of Elvis doing a holographic show holographic residency I think that's kind of gross but they're all alive they're all still kicking they're all really game so I didn't feel weird about it well that is that so this is the thing because they've been speaking about this but actually the only reason that they can do ABBA is because they've been alive to sign the rights away for their holographic use whereas there are obviously loads of people like oh my god it'd be amazing to do the Beatles John Lennon famously a judge on the American Voice

or or um like um Queen and stuff but they can't actually do it because they weren't alive to sign the consent so I think I'm wondering if now maybe like Elton John will be oh that's my one that I think it should be because he would he would lend himself so well to that because of the costumes the flair the songs are so so fun I would love to see young Elton John perform so yeah that is that is really really interesting but I wonder if are they definitely all still alive you're sure one of them hasn't no they're all definitely still alive they're in their 70s I mean they're okay they're kind of Nordic so you know I think they live a long time the water's very good over there I think we'll have them for a very, very long time, frankly. I've just realised I forgot to say everyone,

but Richard's still not here. You've probably realised by now. I forgot to say at the top, but she's still on her holly bobs. And also, actually, I just wanted to mention, because it is, when you're listening to this, it would have been my birthday yesterday, and neither Beth nor Richard could attend. And I just think you should know that.

I can't believe you're absolutely flaming us for this. Because they were invited. Okay, well, you're absolutely flaming us for this because they were invited okay well you're gonna get my side of the story on my separate podcast no I would love to be I unfortunately live in a different country no everyone okay no I just wanted everyone to know because I do you remember once someone left a review being like it doesn't feel like they're actually friends or something do you remember yes it's obviously these girls aren't friends of real life we are friends but Ruchira is in India and Beth lives in Wales and just couldn't make it so just might as well be India well and yes from the future I

hope you've had a great birthday of feeling not hungover and fantastic what is my second one oh yeah forgot about that because now I promised to take you to this for your birthday so I will um okay my second one is oh my god it's again it's fucking trashy as per usual with me. It's Maths. Maths, Married at First Sight Australia is back on Channel 4. They're airing this week. I think they did up to Thursday. So there's four episodes available this week.

It's bonkers as usual. It's absolute shit, but I love it and I can't not love it. This year's selection is really chaotic and fans of the show will love it. People that haven't watched it before will go, this is just shit. And I can't not love it. This year's selection is really chaotic and fans of the show will love it. People that haven't watched it before will go, this is just shit. What are you talking about? But it's really, really good. Some of them, there's some really great couples, but then there's as usual, some real shite bags who shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near the show, but they're so captivating to watch. Like there's a heartbreaking couple between this one woman who's 37. She's really lovely, but she's really clearly very anxiously attached,

wants to make her marriage work. And she's married to this guy who, within seconds of leaving the altar after saying, I do, had thrown a tantrum to a producer that she wasn't petite, he didn't have a spark. It was just really heartbreaking. On the flip side, there's some really lovely couples. One thing I will say about this year

that I think is quite interesting is that two of the married couples have already dated each other and met on dating apps. And I think it just goes to show where we're at in terms of like the endemic nature of dating apps, courtship, modern dating. Like two couples just rounded the aisle and were like, oh, it's you again. We've already been on a date. Feels like romance is dead. Anyway, I found that really interesting. It feels like everything is getting a little bit like spoiled no it's so damning when i was on dating apps every single time i would show a girl i'm sorry show my girlfriends a guy they'd be like oh yeah i've seen him before and it's like okay so we're all just like literally there's plenty

of fish in the sea but also we all are swiping past the same fish like there's no one there's no one uncovered there's no stone unturned I'd love to pretend that I'm gonna start watching maths and I say it all the time and I have so many massive maths lovers in my life but I just do not have the attention span to watch reality tv I can't explain it to you like I can't get you have to be that you have to get yourself hooked in I think it takes a few episodes and I just last about four minutes before I get distracted so I'm happy for you I think it is sort of brain rotting I think it's a good thing and they really like there's a recap every five seconds they really like hold your hand through it in a way that's kind of mind-numbing I just think it's I think a lot of our listeners will be fans and watching along and just know that I'm there with

you and again always open to chat about it because once you're in I mean once I'm in I'm in I love the Australians fascinating culture baffling people I mean once I'm in I'm in I love the Australians fascinating culture baffling people I want to go there actually I want to see them in real life I kind of want to be like you are they use words like bogan and some of them are quite offensive there was one like the words they have for I suppose like working class people or like for what of a better word like kind of the trashier people you know people that the higher class consider trashy are really nasty. So I kind of want to understand the intricacies of

the Australian culture. So I'd like to go there. I will be watching the show. It's so shit. I love it. I love it. I'm actually just, just for the record,

I'm not a hater. I actually wish I loved it. I just can't get myself there, unfortunately. She's too smart. She's 31. She's too smart. No, I just,

I'm actually, it's just like my attention span won't let me concentrate on it. once she's too smart no i just i i'm actually it's just like my attention span might not be so last sunday was arguably the biggest night in the cinema calendar as the 97th academy awards took place the ceremony has in recent years seen some of the most outrageous and memeable moments in pop culture history. Will Smith slapping Chris Rock, La La Land being presented with Best Picture despite not winning Best Picture, Meryl Streep cupping her mouth and hollering at the stage in a meme that will go down in history. This year, nobody was slapped. I was kind of disappointed waking up and finding out

that there had been no big drama. But I think it was still a fairly controversial event with lots of people still arguing about the winners and losers, who should have won, who should have lost. And we are going to talk about Best Picture winner, Onora, very shortly, which also won four other Oscars, including Best Actress, Best Director, Best Original Screenplay and Best Film Editing. But first, I think we should run through the happenings of Sunday's events, because even though I have not watched Beginning to End, because I never do, I've seen bits and pieces, and despite the fact that nobody got battered or cancelled or given the wrong award, a lot happened pop culture-wise. So in terms of the awards we had, other winners, Adrienne Brody as best actor for The Brutalist. I've not seen that. Best supporting actress went

to Zoe Saldana for Amelia Perez. I've not seen that. Best supporting actor went to Kieran Culkin for Real Pain. I love him, but I have to say, I've not seen that. Best costume design went to Wicked, which we have seen. We did a whole episode about it. You should go listen to it. Best makeup and hairstyling went to The Substance, which I think was so well deserved. Again, I have seen that. No Other Land got Best Documentary Feature, which has sparked a lot of conversation online as it follows the Israeli army's attempt to expel residents of an occupied area of the West Bank and was co-directed by a Palestinian journalist and an Israeli journalist. So would love to see that. And hopefully now it's an Oscar winner. It will get a wider release. So all of that to say,

it was a lot of big wins, a lot of losers. I mean, just statistically, it was a lot of losers in that room, but everyone seemed in pretty good spirits. Everyone was looking pretty glam on both the Oscars carpet and on the Vanity Fair after party carpet. And we have to discuss the outfits. We will discuss the gowns. But before we do, I want to ask, were there any moments during this year's Oscar ceremony red carpet that you saw that you would have actually loved to be there to see in person? My favourite bit from the Oscars this year was actually Amelia de Moldenberg interviewing everyone on the red carpet, because everyone kind of gets her now in a way that we have seen so much fatigue and disdain from celebrities with interviews but I think everyone really gets her jokes now and people like Ben Stiller are like hey Amelia and she's so dry so

droll and so funny and the fact that everyone's in on the joke means that you can actually visibly see the actors kind of relax when they get to her because they're like she's not gonna ask me anything crazy I can be really silly and that was actually probably the longest form piece of content I watched from the Oscars which was maybe like a six minute video that she put on her YouTube so I really really enjoyed that I would have loved to have been that for Cynthia and Ariana's rendition of Defying Gravity because I just thought that that was nuts. I also thought that Rey's skyfall was beautiful. What else did I think was amazing? I can't actually remember. What was your favourite bit? It's long ceremony. It was a lot happened. So mine are very similar. Amelia de Moldenberg,

I think she's just fantastic because I think people approach her now knowing that she's going to make them look good. She's going to ask really, really thoughtful questions. Like she really does her research. She's very, very good at her job. And they come out of it glowing because they get a bit of her glow. She humanizes them. I loved watching that, especially Jeff Goldblum. They have a little singing together.

It's just beautiful. I thought that was amazing. I would have quite liked to be there to see Adrian Brody's endless speech. I didn't actually even get through it. It's like five minutes and a half long. I would have liked to be there just because I could have told him to wrap it up. I don't have any skin in the game. He's not my colleague. He's not my boss. I didn't need to impress him. I could have been like, okay, we've had enough now. Guys, come on, let's clap them off. I would have taken that

bullet. What else did I like? I really liked what I saw of Conan O'Brien who hosted it. His jokes were very good. I think he's got great writers when he came on and said well we're halfway through the show that which means it's time for kendrick lamar to come out and call drake a pedophile i was like he was not pulling his punches he also made a joke about and i forget the actress's name the controversial actress from emilia prez whose unearthed tweets were really offensive like he made a joke about her with her in the room it cut to her it was excellent i really liked and this is less an oscars moment as it is a Twitter's moment but like halfway through the ceremony Ben still tweeted Knicks win in in caps like he asked Ben watching I think it's basketball the Knicks I

might be wrong it might be baseball and I just thought that was very I love him and that really humanized him for me that also really made me laugh because everyone's quote tweeting it like Ben aren't you at the Oscars oh he's I love him he's like one of the last holdouts of real celebrities that actually use twitter um do you know what i did want to talk to you about before we talk about the dresses is the glam bot because you retweeted maybe a similar thing that i did about i can't remember what it was but it was something about the glam bot and how like because i would never approach a glam bot i find that they terrify the life out of me but these celebrities are queuing up to be humiliated by the spinning video camera what do you think about the glam bot would you do it I kind of had to almost do one at the end of

my half marathon because the company that was running with runner were like let's try and do a glam bot but like I was in gym kit with a medal and I was like what am I supposed to do in slow mo I think if you're if like Cara Delevingne had this dress with this big train that's fine that's so obvious what we're going to do we're going to get the big train we're going to swoosh it I panicked and just sort of slowly lifted my medal up to my face anyway they didn't use it in the in the video because it was obviously like what was she doing no the idea of it terrifies me because even the logistics I've thought about this so much it actually is like a waking nightmare it's that you've got to spin and I think in your head you're wanting to go slow because the video is slow but it's actually really quick and I think you kind of have to turn

the other way I would just get it completely wrong and I've got a thing where if my body's doing one thing I can't make my face do something so like I can't ever make the two work in tandem so if I was trying to do something interesting with my body in terms of spinning my face would be making a really weird concentrated face if I want my face to look nice my body is going to have to be two feet plant on the floor it's just not something that I'm I'd have to rehearse I think what about you I think that's I think they should probably send out because like the fact so for anyone that doesn't know the glam boy it's like it's this high speed camera this one guy like designed and operated it he's always on the right carpet it yeah I think you're right it

goes really fast and then the video is kind of a slow motion and you have to do something really big you can't kind of do a thumbs up like the actor is joking it just looks fucking stupid most people that do them end up not looking very good because I think it's a very difficult thing to master you immediately become a meme if you fuck it up but it's like a mainstay on the red carpet now which I think that people must see him and go I'm absolutely fucking hell not this guy again because it's just so tense when people are good at it though it is really impressive and this guy again because it's just so tense when people are good at it though it is really impressive and you can tell when it's models you are like god you guys

actually do really have a skill here because they're so good their faces like Cara was actually really impressive and when people are good they're very satisfying to watch I actually don't like watching the bad ones because they kind of make me a bit squeamish because again narcissist I'm imagining it's me okay I'm stressed I did quickly want to say about Adrian Brody's speech because I didn't watch it either but what I did see was so many pictures of Cillian Murphy just really patiently standing there waiting for him to finish which is so sad because Cillian Murphy as we all know is baby girl he absolutely clearly hates going to these events and he has just been made to stand there really seriously he's just I just love that man so much another thing on Aidean Brodie

is he spat his gum out into his wife's hand which the internet's not really been enjoying in a feminist way they're like that was very disrespectful but I think he did just panic a bit like I've done that so me and my best friend actually we made an audition tape to go on the circle do you remember the channel 4 show when you all live in an apartment block and we did that and we were doing an audition tape pretty drunk. And I realised I had gum in and I just went, oh, and she just opened her hands and I sort of spat it in. So I think that was a loving gesture. But it's one of those, I mean, that's kind of how non-controversial these Oscars have been. There was no slap, but he spat his gum in someone's hand. Pathetic.

You say that, but actually Halle Berry did go and snog him in front of his wife, which was something my nightmare like because I know it was so it's a call back to when he snogged her on stage which apparently like however many years ago which apparently was really controversial when it happened everyone was like she didn't want him to do that well she just did it to him and his wife bless her heart has to stand there and be like ha ha ha I love this Jake I would be I wouldn't talk to him the whole way home in the limo he'd be there with his award i'd go don't start don't start don't look at me like that here's your

comeback okay dresses can we do dresses very quickly because i think i actually think the dresses as normal for the vanity fair after party were tremendous i would like to know quickly or not so quickly if you had any standout looks from either the main award boring boring boring or the after party where the real fun begins so my actual favorite was timothy chalamet dressed like a stick of butter I think that he in his little baby yellow powder puff yellow suit I think he looked absolutely adorable I actually loved most people's gowns from the main event what I thought was quite interesting is they were all quite bland this year I thought that like there was a lot of sequins and a lot of that sort of like

deep v with a bit of mesh in the middle which I really hate that bit where it like attaches with the mesh and I thought everyone kind of looked quite safe I did love Doja Cat's take on that though she was wearing all of a rooster it was it was a sequin kind of bodicey dress but then it had the silhouette of a woman on top in gold that was really nice oh beautiful I do get mixed up about what was Vanity Fair and what was not because I loved Lily Rose Depp I think her first outfit was this black quite gothic lacy dress but then she did change into this weird sort of like crop top Aladdin skirt number which I wasn't actually a massive fan of Hunter Schafer every single time gets my vote always thinks she looks incredible I

thought that Kylie Jenner looked insane oh I love Cynthia Evo's actually very witchy kind of black velvet spiky number what who are your faves I really liked so Lisa's dress Lisa I think black pink which was this like she was wearing this like body, and this is the Vanity Fair party, she wore this too, it's kind of lace, black body, long sleeve, high neck, underneath what looked like a kind of leather insect's carapace, or like a chrysalis, kind of very insect-y, that was amazing. Molly Gordon wore, like, an elevated kind of red prom dress, almost, like poofy like a corset body little gems on it she looked fantastic I really like Zoe Kravitz actually she had this like her little I only saw it from the back but like black dress like a sort of bottom cleavage poking out and it's just

honestly it's amazing how they keep coming up with dresses I think this about songs all the time how can there possibly be more ways to have a dress but I was looking through the images from the the Vanity Fair party I was like they keep they keep doing it they keep making these dresses she looked amazing yeah Monica Barbaro was another one I just really liked it's very kind of classic but it looked it was like kind of silvery sparkly dress no sleeves with sleeveless kind of just you know boobs pushed up kind of spilling over I thought that was just very classy very very beautiful huge fan of Zoe Kravitz in the butt loved that what did you make of Ariana Grande's you know, boobs pushed up, kind of spilling over. I thought that was just very classy, very, very beautiful. Huge fan of Zoe Kravitz in the butt.

Loved that. What did you make of Ariana Grande's lampshade? Oh, I really liked that. It's very pleasing to the eye. I loved that too. It was very nice to look at. And I saw on TikTok, someone had basically predicted that she would wear this like last month or something. They were going through the looks and went,

this would be amazing. And I think whoever that person is must just feel on top of the world because they got it right I think that it looks like it was made for her there was um an interesting thing because I realized who am I always looking out for on these red carpets and it's Zendaya and she's not there because she's filming the new Christopher Nolan film and there was actually quite a big cohort of people there that would usually be there who I'd usually be looking to who weren't there oh yeah not very interesting insight really was it well it does feel like it was kind of the new guard and there were like some people missing Reese with her spoon where was she

yeah Jennifer Aniston a lot of the old yeah the older lot I don't mean that derogatory derogatorily act of a certain age yeah act of a certain age weren't present. I did think, yeah, I loved Ariana's outfit because I thought that a lot of it was quite playing quite safe, sort of like just a lot of sequins straight up and down. Selena Gomez looked beautiful. I mean, another conversation that did come out of this award season was the thinness again, which is coming up time and time again, but just that everyone is looking very thin

and it's kind of been called like the olympic awards but that's by the by we can't keep talking about that forever really can we i would like to very quick are we allowed to is it rude we've kind of considered that it's rude to say the dresses that we didn't like it's sort of like hot or not we're over that but are we allowed to say ones we didn't quite understand because i've got questions yeah i've got questions about kim kardashian's look because it felt very not felt very not Kim Kardashian like she wasn't really wearing her makeup as she normally does it was very plain it was just like a almost like a wedding dress before the wedding dress had been fitted it was white strapless again sleeveless and I just didn't

quite understand it or expect it from her it's a bit contrived I saw such funny meme that was like Kris Jenner rigging Kim before the awards being like Pamela Anderson is getting more press than us quick take all your makeup off and it did feel a bit a bit like that because she was very bare-faced I agree it did feel like a bit of a departure for her also a thought and this is I don't even know how to explain this I felt really weirdly uncomfortable that I was starting to see that she looked older and not uncomfortable because I don't want to see an older woman but because I had this weird sort of like feeling of uncomfortability for her that I feel nervous that she is no matter how much work you get done, no matter how much you inject yourself and whatever else, I don't know what they do. Naturally, you can always kind of tell that someone's been on the earth for however

many years. And I suddenly felt really worried for her, like what's that going to do to her? Because she did just look like a woman who no longer at some point you can't keep defying gravity or well she is defying gravity but she you know defying the passage of time and I was like oh I feel weird because I don't feel weird obviously if anyone looks their age but with her it did feel a bit nervous anyway tangent I do think that that would be an interesting conversation because I imagine she plans to be famous forever I think her her work is in the public because I imagine she plans to be famous forever I think her her work is in the public eye I think it'd be very difficult to continue to make that kind of money while also not being a public figure I think she's very good at it and she

probably loves it so I think she will have to perhaps in the style of Kris Jenner maybe like morph into the next kind of look the next aesthetic of her life because so much of it's done in the public eyes so I just feel like maybe she will really embrace it a la Pamela Anderson and go here's how I'm going to grab the headlines I'm actually going to go grey or I'm actually going to stop having certain treatments done you're going to see me looking perhaps my age I think that'll be fascinating to see because it sort of feels like Kylie Jenner is now the young glam face of the youthful side of the Jenna Kardashians she was invited to the actual Oscars with her boyfriend Timothee so I just think powers are shifting again I think we

should do a Kardashian episode I know the listeners were like no but I think we will do I think we should do a little special it's a fascinating empire that's what I'll say so anora is now officially the film of the year winning five of the six awards it was nominated for during sunday's ceremony in fact it did so well that it broke records with sean baker tying walt disney for the most academy award wins by single person in one night the six million dollar independent film i know that six million million sounds like a lot of money, but in the film world, that is actually not very much at all, by director Sean Baker is about Anora, a young woman from Brooklyn who gets her chance at a Cinderella story when she meets and marries the son of an oligarch. But once the news reaches Russia, her fairy tale is threatened as

the parents set out to New York to get the marriage annulled. Now, The Guardian called it a screwball Cinderella tale, frenetic and funny, fiery and profane. The New York Times called it a star maker, referring to Mikey Madison. Others, however, such as Celia Walden for The Telegraph, said it's cringy and patronising, and I'm sure sex workers think the same. Baker is a filmmaker known for his work centring on marginalised communities. However, he himself has also been accused of sexual harassment and critics have also accused him of being politically inconsistent and even exploitative in his portrayal of women in his films. Mikey Madison also spiked controversy late last year when she said she declined the offer of an intimacy coordinator. Mark Edelstein, who plays Ivan, and I decided it would be best to just keep it small. My character is a sex worker and I had seen Sean's films and know his dedication to

authenticity. I was ready for it. And as an actress, I approached it as a job, she said. So the Oscars loved it, as did many critics and casual viewers. But there were other people online who saw Onora in a more damaging light, finding its representation of sex workers lacking and one of the biggest questions to come out about this film is is it a feminist film or a male gaze fantasy i would love to know your thoughts on this beth but first of all i know you've watched an aura what were your thoughts on this film so i really like this film i think because ruchira came and brought it to the episode what you've been loving i was like okay she really sold it to me I was like I'm gonna go away and watch this I didn't watch it in the cinema I watched it at home which maybe made a difference I watched it before the Oscars noms

and so I kind of I remember thinking oh this is a really interesting film it didn't kind of rock me to my core it wasn't one of those films where I was like okay that's changed things for me but I think the skill there the performances like the raw quality the film had, you can't look away. So I rated it a lot. I agree with a lot of the critics who rated it. I think I also agree with a lot of critics that have concerns and questions. Earlier today, I actually read Zan Brooks' piece or his review for The Guardian, in which he calls the film the anti-fairytale of New York, which I think nails it very nicely. More than the characters, I think I just really loved the America of this

film. It felt quite real. It felt like, like you say, it's kind of like playground for like, he's like an oligarch, she is the Cinderella character that never quite kind of makes it to the ball. I also felt as maybe like an older woman or older than she is in this film quite protective of her and I think that was really interesting to watch her character she's able to like leap she's able to be very romantic to be bold she's so unwise in that like she's 23 in this film I was it was like watching myself also not in a lot of ways and I think I loved I'll always love watching films about young idealistic women and the inner workings of them so yeah loads of it works for me some of it I I think I will watch

it again but for now a solid six or seven for me what is your what are your thoughts I definitely think it's one that's worth a re-watch I watched it post the Oscars buzz and post having read loads about it which I often think actually isn't a great way of consuming art because you're way too informed going in and one of the things I found really interesting is I'd heard so many people talking about certain scenes being like it's really funny for example the scene when her partner her husband kind of runs away and she's left with these goons who are trying to kind of contain her and there was lots of people that were like I found that bit really funny which I found interesting so I watched that with just depth of fear and kind of like could completely imagine her frustration at when they're trying to like detain her and I know there's humor in the fact

that she's this tiny young woman who's kind of beating these men up to shit but all I could think about was like the helplessness and the fear so I found it interesting where people were able to derive comedy I could see the comedic timing, the comedic beats of it, but ultimately I just felt like the fear of violence running through. So that was interesting. I do think Mikey Madison's performance was incredible. I do like the fact, and I think I had this on the New York Times podcast actually, but they were saying there's not loads of plot, but the film just keeps running and you run with it. And I agree with that because it's quite, and I wonder if that comes from it being a small budget film where there's not loads of plot, but the film just keeps running and you run with it. And I agree with that because it's quite, and I wonder if that comes from it being a

small budget film where there's not tons of locations and it kind of runs on one continuous thread. It's not like it doesn't do much like big flashbacks or anything. It's just over the course of this one series of events. So I did really like that. And I thought it was beautifully shot. I thought all of the acting was amazing. Probably agree with you about a six or a seven because as

much as I did enjoy it, and I do think Mikey Madison is really the standout from this, I think on all the conversations and maybe because we're so immersed in talking about sex work is I couldn't necessarily work out what it was saying. And kind of even the ending, it has got a bit of a fair tale ending in a way and again i think had i seen this without the oscars buzz i probably would have enjoyed it more i have a horrible thing where i hate this about myself and i don't do it on purpose but i do have like a tendency to want to be contrarian so if someone tells me they hated a film i will go and watch it and find all the good things about it and when i read when everyone's saying it's amazing, I almost don't enjoy it as

much. But I have read lots of people saying that they've watched it twice and on the second watch, you kind of get more from it. Another great thing I had on that podcast, which I will link, was someone said that it's kind of like a comment on the food chain with the oligarchs at the top and the goons and the sex workers at the bottom. And it kind of misses out that middle America, the middle class, and just shows you how it is like these super rich people, but no one's really free because the oligarchs are also kind of imprisoned by the fact that they're so terrified of their son messing up. How did you find it as a comment on class? Was that something that stuck out to you at all? I think that's really interesting because, and actually what I guess I

will get maybe from a second viewing, because that first viewing I was like, God, this is so interesting on womanhood. I've got questions about how it portrays sex work. Is it getting it right? Those questions I was asking. I think it's a really interesting way of looking at it because we know that the American class system is convoluted. We know that America is built on an idea, a myth, a dream of upward mobility. And what that dream myth cloaks is that the money available for most workers is pennies compared to what the elites, the oligarchs are playing with at the top. And I think actually what this film succeeds at really well is showing the winners and the losers of that

myth of upward mobility. And like you say, how actually the winners are also kind of the losers and vice versa. There's this myth of America's prosperous dreamland, but there's no real consequences despite being two halves of the marriage. And when it falls apart, because they're very young, so they get married essentially halfway through the film. It's a film of two halves, they're heady, they meet, they strike up this financial situation. She sort of buys into it. They spend a lot of time together. Then they get married on a whim. It's great. And then the second half is the unraveling of it when his parents find out. So when it falls apart, you kind of see the consequences for him are very few besides a return to his own boredom,

which actually feels like a prison for him, besides parental disapproval, besides having his toys taken away, essentially, that's his in that same interaction that same loss and he loses like a hope for the future she is humiliated she is restrained she is threatened she kind of loses that access to the the freedom and the wealth and the play that she has so enjoyed up till then as his wife and i think that's the way that the workforce and the culture and America and the world plays out on a larger scale. The mistakes are made by the elite, the consequences are borne by the proletariat and the workers. And it's Annie and it's Igor, who is one of the goons. And I forget the other goon's name, but the two goons and Annie,

they're the ones that have to scramble to try and fix things. They're the ones, when all's said and annie they're the ones that have to scramble to try and fix things they're the ones when all said and done they're the ones out searching through the night for him working and working and never not working like we never see her or see her maybe in a few moments of rest but she's always essentially working she works through that night to find him they are even though they come at it from three very different angles they are all workers they have that kind of understanding of each other like she she sees them she knows who they work for she's they see her and they kind of know how she's come to be in this house they understand unspokenly

each other's roles and i think the film maybe gets a lot maybe gets a lot wrong or doesn't quite make it in other areas but i think it's very clear-eyed on how the world works for workers for working class people and how it works for rich people and I think it did get that right and I think actually yes on my second re-watch no my first re-watch my second watch I will look out for a little bit more of that dynamic what did you think of that when you broke it up like that I thought it was a really good point I think that is actually where Loaders of the Strength of the film is I think that I want to come back to that question of is it a feminist telling or is it kind of like male gaze fantasy

because actually some of my favorite bits were right at the beginning when you're watching her kind of go and find men to be clients and she's like oh I'll take you to a cash machine and she's really ballsy and she's smart and she's driven she's got her wits about her she's a really likable interesting young woman and you know there's no shame around the fact that that's what she does her job and she's got camaraderie there and she's got friends and I kind of that jaunty young I enjoyed that bit then obviously there is lots of explicit sex scenes which as we as we know, currently people are hating. It's a lot of backlash about any kind of sex. But I mean, it's a film about a sex worker.

And I did like the fact that, you know, it shows her having enjoyable, pleasurable sex of her own volition as well as, you know, her sex work. I guess that it's those sections of the film. Well, I don't know, actually, that people take issue with and feel like they're not feminist. Because I guess it is quite not necessarily glitzy, but it does sort of make it look a little bit easy when she's working in that bar and she's just what's called headquarters and she's just going up to men and they're all getting dances and she doesn't seem to be remotely kind of oppressed or subjugated or ever in fear until, you know at the end I don't know again I guess it's that thing of like it's a snapshot of a story it's whether or not it's like but maybe it's

because it's meant to have that sort of like black comedy element to it it doesn't get that deep but I think perhaps it's such a thorny specific difficult contentious issue that it felt ever so slightly flat because there was a way that you could have taken this to another dimension whether or not it needed that I don't know people obviously absolutely loved I did really enjoy it I just think I almost think sometimes like you can't I'd gone in with so much criticism in my head I almost couldn't watch it just as a film I was I was too aware but if I had to say if it was like a male gaze fantasy or a feminist vision I don't think I would necessarily give it either of those things I think it has I don't know I don't think

it fits a label in my mind no I think to watch it for because so Sean Baker is someone who has made lots of films about sex work and has said explicitly in promotion for this that he wants to keep making films about sex workers because he wants to remove the stigma he's one he's obviously personally fascinated by it but two at least his stated goal is to help sex workers and i think people on the left and on the right who don't like this film really hated it for how it portrayed sex work and though the roots of the critique are probably a little bit different the dislike of that is very real. Sex negative Zoomers don't like it. Puritanical right don't like it. Anti-sex work left don't like it. And I think it's very obvious watching the film that Sean Baker is totally cognizant of the fact that sex work is so fundamental. It's so central to American culture. It is not,

as much as we can pretend that it's on the fringes and it's kind of this strange subculture, it's not a sideline industry. It's enormous. And actually, I read a piece for Vulture by Rachel Handler, where she spends time with the members of the sporting cast who also consulted on the script, who are sex workers and strip clubs, work in strip clubs and dance clubs. And they seem, they're really complimentary of him. They are really encouraged by him. They're kind of saying of saying well he's actually the one putting his money where his

mouth is in terms of not just making these films about sex and sex work but also employing us to be in them and you know they so one of the women Sophia said the only stripper who wasn't a real strip on set was Mikey which is just a really interesting dynamic and not probably one you would see in a film that leads at the Oscars. I think there's a lot of critiques and actually sent you a piece about a sex worker's take on it, which was not flattering at all. But to listen to sex workers who worked on it, they at least do feel that in terms of the work he's doing and representation, he's listening and he's doing the work in an industry where actually it's very difficult to transition from one to the other it's very difficult to work as a sex worker while also pursuing a you know an acting job a lot of the

women in the philanthropy say that they're like agents won't hire me they say well we don't like this other job that you do we can't actually work with you and that in a world that is so dangerous for sex workers so you can discriminate to the hilt when it's a sex worker in a way that you just can't for any other worker something about this I kind of can't take my eyes off him he kind of at least feels sincere in that I don't know him I don't know his politics but I don't know I'm watching I yeah the fact that there's actual sex workers and strippers performing in the film the fact that it is an independent film the fact that actually I do think there is a rawness to when something has like less budget when it's more independent

that seeps into the actual being of the film which does give it a bit more gravitas I do I mean I think it's incredible that it won it's interesting because actually people were saying ahead of the Oscars, I hadn't really read this until now, but so many people were like, absolutely, Mikey Madison is going to win the Oscar. Absolutely, this film. I think it's amazing. I think that I guess it's so underexplored in popular mainstream culture because people want to keep it underground, that when anything does stick its head above the parapet it is going to receive criticism and I wonder if you know we've got to kind of try and stop that try and stop labeling everything and allow more things to percolate and be created and be made absolutely not trying to silence any sex workers who are coming out in opposition to this film absolutely their prerogative to speak about where they think there's been faults but I do think that as like general lay viewers we've got such this whole this feminist male gaze question came up so many times. And I just think, is it a detriment to art to keep trying to label everything? Because what good, where does that take us? And sometimes I guess things just have to exist in the grey. And yeah, I do think it's a fantastic film.

I definitely think it's one that I want to rewatchwatch. So more on that actually the sex workers who are coming out and saying maybe we've got some reservations there was a piece for Angel Food Mag about the film it was a review it was an essay called Romance Labour and was written by Marla Cruz who is a sex worker and writer based in LA and it is a great piece which we will link in the show notes and I think it adds a lot of additional context for when this film was made and what kind of backdrop, you know, what is the current historical climate and context for sex workers in America who have actually really suffered

over several recent administrations and governments. They've lost the safety of certain online platforms and certain protections. And I think that reading this added a lot of context for, you know, a a certain me as a viewer that's like a civilian slash non-sex worker that I maybe didn't have before and there was there's loads of quotes in it that I thought were absolute zingers but I've highlighted a part here that I feel like chimes with what we're trying to say which so she first says the politics in

Anora are a mile wide and an inch deep with repetitive trite iterations of a sex worker suffering where even her ability to love is stifled by how society marginalises her, which is just so different than what, you know, as it would be, it's so different than what the consultants were saying on the script. And it's, you're not going to get a completely aligning opinion because they're not this homogenous group. So I feel like this was a really interesting piece. She also says, and this is about when annie announces her marriage and goes and she's able to quit working at the script club and she writes the congratulatory consensus from annie's co-workers as she cleans out her club locker

strikes an outlandish tone i could not believe a room full of sex workers in manhattan the epicenter of capital and its inherent inequalities would not include one soul who notices that the dramatic power imbalance in her new marriage could pose a threat to her safety. So I guess the argument there being that she's this young 23-year-old woman. She's friendly with a lot of the women in her club. Some of them are much older than her. Some of them are her age and their peers. And they all seem very clear-eyed and they all seem quite savvy despite being very young. And thinking about it now, it does kind of lack that tone of but have you considered what could go wrong here even if she doesn't listen because at 23 you don't listen it did feel like maybe a glaring omission not to have someone be like you have to look after yourself like this is a I imagine that it's a situation that is quite

well known that dynamic of this is a customer turned kind of boyfriend turned employer it's it did feel actually someone would have said this is how you protect yourself or just her awareness of that and her kind of she just seems to leap which maybe that makes sense with her character I don't think we get to know her character super well but maybe her character is someone that just leaps and is quite idealistic and that makes sense but yeah there's no one around her that says baby chill it's so true and it does in that sense it really does feel like it's directed by a man because i mean sex workers are some of the most politicized people on earth because they have to be because they're constantly endangered derided and as you said they're not a monolith so it also does make sense that when a film like this takes

off so much it is going to be offensive to so many people because the industry is so broad. Sex work is a massive umbrella term for all sorts of different things, which can range from sort of like high-end luxury escorts who maybe don't even do anything sexual with their clients. They simply go for lunch with them to you know being trafficked and in like really violent dangerous conditions and so I guess it is always very dangerous when you have this one view like one one visual of what a sex worker is it's never going to be able to encapsulate this

this massive group of people but it does definitely feel like there would have been a sage woman who has seen things go wrong before. Or even these young women, like if they're in sex work at 23, they've probably grown up quite young. They've probably seen the world at a younger age than we would hope for people to have a deep understanding. Probably would be a bit more savvy. And I understand with that kind of money and when you're in a desperate situation, you're going to go for it. But I completely agree that there would have, it's interesting there wasn't one dissenting voice. And actually, you're right, we for it but I completely agree that there would have it's interesting there wasn't one dissenting voice and actually you're right we barely get to know her and as much as she I really loved her character it is still very much focused on them on the men maybe that's

intentional you know it's a man's world you have these goons these guys I do like how how sparse the cast was and how it's quite intimate and you are kind of like running around this city. That was quite nice. But yeah, it's, if anything, is it Igor, the kind of sweet one? The bald one. Yeah, the one she has more of. I think that's Igor, yeah. Yeah. He's kind of given the biggest kind of like redemption arc. I feel like he's the one, if anything, who's like the princess in the story compared to her. So maybe that's it. Maybe it's just, it's a fantastic film look I can't sit here and say it's not amazing it literally won five awards that being said I do think that there

is like a dollop of flavor a splash a little trickle of something which maybe is just that extra bit of depth and I love what you said about the the width what was the thing they said it was like a width of yes the politics are a mile wide and an inch deep which is so cutting oh so good and i think it is that again i don't think i would have this level of criticism had i not read it but yeah i've seen everything around it but i hope that it spurs more conversations around this i mean we haven't even got into it whether or not we want to or not but about the intimacy coordinator again this just adds a bit more texture to a film makes it a bit more complicated because of the allegations against sean barker because of the fact that mikey madison

is a very young actress who said oh i don't need an intimacy coordinator when intimacy coordinators have been sort of the thing du jour for the last five years it's all anyone's really spoken about every actress said how grateful they are how much easier it is to perform on set when you have someone there so there's this kind of murkiness yes oh totally to this film this kind of double-edged sword of like again that rawness i spoke about but then it also feels a bit like it's bleeding into a reality which makes it a bit uncomfortable i don't know if you had any thoughts on the intimacy coordinator thing i think it's so interesting watching because this did have controversy sprinkled through it just i mean the minute that sean baker was going

to make this film it was going to be controversial. And then there was this, it was kind of like, if Amelia Perez had bad press that is bad press, this film had bad press that actually is kind of good press. It really actually, I think, worked for its Oscars campaign. In terms of the intimacy coordinator, I mean, I totally respect her as an actress making a decision, clear-eyed, smart. She justified it and saying, no, no, we made this decision together. And so I don't believe that she was disempowered in making it. At the same time, I don't believe that an actor should be able to make the decision. I do believe it should be industry standard in the same way that there are just all sorts of rules to protect

performers that you just can't circumnavigate. And I think this should be one of them. I don't believe there are enough good reasons to set a precedent where a 24-year-old actress is engaging in a sex scene without anyone there, or anyone really, because I don't think she's this naive lost lamb, but I just think it is. Sets a dangerous precedent. You could have a director leaning on you to say you don't want one. I just think it's too dangerous and that they're there for a reason they're there to prevent abuses okay maybe it's a little bit less artistic or whatever but i just think that's screw our heads on it's fucking hollywood we'd love to know your thoughts on an aura if you loved it hated it had anything else to add as always please do slide into our dms and me and beth are going to do our due diligence and watch it again and then come back next week and recommend it oh my god i just got a text from i won 100 pounds in my premium bonds and i immediately saw and i

went oh my god that's too high before it's tickets i've got sickness that's amazing i don't even really know what premium bonds are it's like savings where often like a parent or a grandparent will set you up with some and you I think the government uses the money and then if you can win it's like a lottery and it's like no risk investing for dummies but anyway so they do a draw every month but like it can be years when you don't win anything. But then sometimes you do. Oh, I love it. That's really fun.

I'm spending that frivolously. Anyway, moving on. Now for the next topic, we are going to flirt with a fascinating little idea in the dating and partying realm, which is to have a party specifically for flirting. A party where the goal is to get together a host of your single friends, their single friends, and some flirt, happy, outgoing, married couples for good measure, with the objective of bringing flirting back. Now, this idea comes from a recent piece in The Cut by author Rachel Connolly called, Does Dating Feel Depressing? Throw a Flirting Party. And it

chronicles her attempts, along with her friend Monica Heisey, author of the brilliant 2023 novel Really Good Actually, to throw a party to attempt to make dating feel fun again for their single mates. And the party seems to go really well, actually. They really carefully curate this invite list saying that they don't want too many freelance creatives there, which as a freelance creative, I totally understand. They say they don't want people that are just hot, but have no vibes. They don't want people to bring the mood down. They don't want people who will vlog about the event. They don't want people to come in a couple just to hunt for a third person

to complete their threesome. And at the party, they see it all. They see people flirting up a storm. They see people too nervous to flirt. they see people flirting up a storm they see people too nervous to flirt they see people snogging someone that they've just met and flirted with they see people getting too drunk out of nerves and not being able to flirt it's a really fascinating piece and something that I'm dying to talk about because we are as I mentioned most episodes two single women in our 30s which I think we should have been at this party, really. But anyway, we've both read the piece. What do you think of Rachel and Monica's idea

to sort of, like, if not solve modern dating, then at least make it easier by doing a flirting event or kind of a low stakes singles event? Is it a good idea or disaster? What is so funny is they've basically just designed a bar. That's what a bar used to be. It used to be loads of single people who were looking to flirt. And now that is just unfortunately something that you can't achieve.

This just used to be a naturally occurring thing where humans would flock to the watering hole in order to snag snag a mate so I thought it was really funny I thought their criteria for the people was quite funny I also did think you know Rachel was a little bit scathing where she's like and there's these beautiful women in their 30s who are mysteriously single and then there's this one about this woman who's just like shrouded in tote bags because in the corner I won't like take her coat off and she's just because I guess the stance would like she's too shy she's what she's saying kind of is like she's not putting herself out there I do think it's a really good idea I don't think I know enough single people like men that is I know loads of single women every single time another person another woman

joins the ranks of singleness everyone comes together and says does anyone know any single men we say yes George this one guy from school and that's it and then actually he might he might even have a girlfriend now but he we always pull him out but also the problem is all the men that i do know that are single i know them way too well or their next boyfriend there's just i don't know any so i would find this quite hard to organize personally i do really want this to happen i do really want to be in an environment a a naturally occurring environment, all orchestrated like this, where people are actively looking to flirt. And I'm constantly in search of it. In fact, loads of my partying days were kind of ignited by this idea that if I go to the next house party, if I stay up all night, then some opportunity to flirt is going

to happen. More often than not, and as she talks about these demographics in the piece as well, I would be out with one of my best friends. We would just completely be lost in each other's rambling chats, not even come up for air, let alone look around to see if there were any like viable men, because we would just be enjoying ourselves and being really silly. And so often that hasn't worked out for me. It's just damning, isn't it? I mean, she says it at the beginning of the piece, she says, look, everyone's talking about how bad dating is. So we thought we'd try and revitalize it by doing this thing. I just, this is why I've opted out, I guess. I do feel much more at peace, just kind of forgetting that dating is even something that I have to facilitate, add to my roster of things to do. It does feel more peaceful. But I mean, mean I don't know what do you feel about it I feel well yeah I mean I feel that it is depressing I feel that this is an act of allyship from this is what all happily coupled up people I think should be doing which is creating

opportunities for their single pool of friends to kind of meet and flirt and do so in the safe environment of someone's home I think long-term coupled up people are actually terrible to single people as a rule. I think they have no decorum, they have no empathy, they minus for content, they minus for dating app stories. They go, can I have a go on your hinge after two glasses of wine? But when it comes time to throwing a flirting party and writing about it in a magazine, well, it's dust. So I think this is now required reading for my married LTR, long-term relationship, friends who have done nothing about my love life, despite all the good jolly times I've given them. So on the one hand, I just thought, what a stellar act of allyship. What a great point you made about

how this used to just be what the world was, which was an opportunity to meet people. That has definitely fallen off. And it reminded me actually about a piece I read for The Atlantic, which I don't know if I brought up before. If so, I'll keep it short and sweet. It was by Ellen Cushing and it's called Americans Need to Party More. And she says basically, Americans are very lonely. And I think this applies to us over here as well. Americans are lonely, low on friends, they feel stagnant, they're tired of online dating, they're not shagging, they are not spending any time with other people that on the phone too much. Basically, time spent socialising in the last 20 years has plummeted. I read it was something like in 2023 or 2024,

only about 4% of Americans hosted a social gathering on your average weekend or holiday, which is about 35% reduction from 2004, which is really damning. It speaks to, I think, an anxiety maybe that a lot of us millennials have about what our social lives look like versus what we thought they would look like, because the fabric of socializing has changed so much to become a digital thing. We are not in the bar after work like Ally McBeal. We're not in the coffee shop like friends. We're not at dinner parties three times a week. We're not, you know, we're staring at our phones in the small bedroom of a six bed house share, age 33, where you couldn't throw a dinner party even if you wanted to, because it's prohibited, or you'd have one of your many housemates coming in to microwave a fish or do a whitewash.

Everything looks so different. And I think this piece speaks to that where we don't have these things we do have to create these opportunities for ourselves and even if they're a bit contrived I thought oh flirting party actually does sound quite nice because I love flirting I don't know about you would you say that you are a flirt in my mind you are a big flirt but I don't know if that's if I'm just pigeonholing you oh I'm such a big flirt to the point where like luckily I've always gone out with men who've understood that about me but I don't know that if that's if I'm just pigeonholing you oh I'm such a big flirt to the point where like luckily I've always gone out with men who've understood that about me but I don't know that I'm I would flirt with your grandma if she got near enough like I cannot help myself and so I I think just

my natural inclination is to flirt I would flirt with the tree flirt flirt with the tree but what what you what you were saying I completely agree because I was thinking this as well it's like this has such a Richard Curtis about it like the way they're curating the list like how many how many uh creatives can we have that blah blah the other fundamental problem is like very few of my friends own houses the ones that do are in long-term relationships and it's a one bed flat and it's like no one has six chairs at their dining table if someone does need a chair you're literally like messaging your neighbors being like bring your own chair so that is definitely an issue it's it's such a gorgeous idea and i i love flirting more than anything in fact flirting again like part of a night out part of the fun of it is just going around and finding someone even to someone to lock eyes with you in a way that

suggests they might fancy you could give me about three months worth of confidence through the cold hard winter it's just it's sensational but it happens so much less frequently I don't know if people are less outgoing I think people are more broke less people are out I think the people congregate I don't I I don't know I think we spoke about this before as well but the thing with like especially in London when a bar is good unfortunately it then becomes rammed and then it loses that sense of like the perfect level of intimacy which is like a slightly buzzy pub but there's enough places for everyone to sit and it's full but you're not sort of rushed off your feet which actually is so hard to come by now and even if you're like a member of somewhere they're always packed i just think that the environments for flirting and and meeting people in the wild have been massively

reduced so this idea of a flirting party is a great antidote to that problem is we also don't have a house that's hard it's funny because i saw another tweet that was like there are so many people talking about this why are we not meeting each other there are men and women and every gender who are all like god I'd love to just go and flat I don't know there are also there are loads of events on as well but I think they can feel a bit sort of naff for want of a better word like these kind of like speed datings and Thursdays the dating app does stuff like that and I have thought about going to one of those with one of my friends I even saw there was like a naked speed dating I wasn't going to go to that so it's just like I don't know why we're having to do this like organized fun thing of like why is organic flirting

so it's died to death I would love for it to come back because I love flirting so much. It's the stuff of life it's so interesting you bring up the speed dating I was reading so I read a piece for the Londoner by Maura Crockett called Where Are All The Men? And it's about this current trend of companies and spaces putting on these actually really classy, really modern, really kind of cool, low-lit, sexy speed dating events. And women buy out tickets within a half an hour. Whereas up to the day of the event, they're like, fuck, we don't have enough men. There are just not enough blokes that actually go to them. Despite the fact that we know that men thrive in a relationship, we know that dating and marriage benefits men more. It raises

their kind of social status. It improves their lives. They do want partners. So I'm like, why aren't the men going? And she kind of goes to these events and talks to the women, talks to the men. And I just, in a world where we are finding dating apps so dire, where we feel like we're losing recipes of meeting people in public, we all have to be open to alternatives if we want to date people, if we want to flirt. And so often, and I just find, and we'll link this piece again, I find it so fascinating how men are not taking the initiative and going to this because I would have thought it would be the other way around but I think in terms of modern dating women I mean it's two women that have organized this party two women with boyfriends have gone out their way to organize a party for flirting whereas men can't even get it together to buy a ticket to go to a place where guaranteed you are to meet like single available women in the city I can't really wrap my head around it do they not want to flirt this almost ties back into our episode that we did on the agony of texting with men which was more about men's tendencies towards not making plans not being that good at like organizing things it's

a conversation I've had so many times my girlfriends my girlfriends and I are so organized like if we're going to see each other it's in the diary for months and I remember with my ex-partner I'd be like what are you doing on Saturday because I've got this like barbecue and he'd be like oh I don't know I'll probably just text one of the boys see if he wants to go to the pub and I was like if I text my friends at 5 p.m on a Saturday asking if they want to go to the pub they'd be like what do you mean I've obviously got plans that have been in my diary since 2022 like we're so organized like women's calendars and social planning is done this is obviously sweeping generalization but to for as far as i know all of the women in my life have pretty hefty social calendars which are organized with a fine tooth comb yeah there are

those what are they called the poles dingle dongle poles what they call not doddle pole doodle poles what's the doodle pole is it not called a doodle you know when you put it in the group chat and everyone's like when are you free and they've sent you like a load of dates oh it's a i don't know what it might be called that doodle poll i was imagining it was like a staff like a wizard staff anyway but so i do think part of it is maybe just the way that we socialize as genders is like men are much more off the cuff maybe they're socializing again is done around a thing like a football match or an event or whatever whereas women will be more proactive so I think that's probably part of it I do also

think that there is also this gender thing which was socialized to believe that men seeking out romance is naff or embarrassing or not something you should do whereas women obviously more often than not are painted as sort of like desperate spinsters who are looking for love so yeah I don't know I think there's so many elements that play into it but I do think that death of night life and the economy are really ruining people's abilities to find love as well because there was a time when London would be the most buzzing place whereas now because of you know gentrification and rising neighborhoods and sort of like really rich people living in what used to be ostensibly quite like cool fun areas to go out and now all

of their licensing so many places that used to be open really late now don't have licensing past like 11 o'clock because the fucking nimbies and i think that that not that you know you have to be out late to meet people but that is like a massive part of how people would meet people. Yeah. Oh my God, are we living in that? I think this piece was meant to be uplifting, wasn't it? I know. Now I'm just like, God, we are living in the age of lovelessness.

And yeah, what we need, if not flirting parties, we do just need, yes, in our house shares. Yes, we'll just have to congregate on our, you know, that one friend that's a homeowner. We'll have to congregate there. To have parties for frivolous reasons, because that's also identified as a problem the only part like the parties i go to are like wedding adjacent or their birthday parties or therefore like there's a main character to them which is not really lend

itself to the egalitarian free-for-all flirt fest that i think we need i think yeah we need it not to orbit around one person we need us all to just meet kick back have a glass of quite cheap wine and unwind rather than like oh we're doing a toast again or like oh I'm at hen and we're doing life drawing at 11am no flirt flirt freely I've just realized I forgot everyone's doing this at run clubs I'm joining a run club I forgot that's it oh yeah did you have you heard about this no that is what everyone's doing i've just remembered everyone is going to run clubs and that is where they're flirting the cat's singing oh that was such a came in and went yes um so yeah me and the cat are gonna go to oh but then i but i'm disgusting when i run i can't

flirt when i'm beat red i think the flirting happens afterwards so apparently you all meet up at the thing the start and it And it's only a short run. I don't think you have to run that hard. And then what happens is everyone tends to go to like some pub afterwards. But I've had many a sort of flirtation born from a running pub. So our generation. I'd game the system and I would do like a full face of glam with like loads of blush. It looks like I've been running.

I wouldn't do the run. I'd arrive at the beginning, get an Uber to the pub and be like, God, that was tough, but I feel really good for it. Little do they know, I've just had a blowout. That is such an idea, in more ways than one. Yeah, I fucking need it. A wooga. Remember, as well as these Friday episodes,

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