Everything Is Content - The Troubles, A Troubling Interview & The Metrics Of Sexiness

Episode Date: November 22, 2024

Beth, Ruchira and Oenone have been watching, listening and reading... as always. This week, they've all been binging the new historical drama, Say Nothing. The new nine part Disney Plus show is an adaptation of Patrick Redden Keefe’s bestselling book of the same name. The book came out in 2018, the series just dropped last week. It follows closely to the narrative of the book, which was about the Troubles, the IRA, the provisional IRA and a now notorious woman at the centre of it all, Dolours Price.Next up, in an interview with Eva Wiseman for the Observer, actor and director Rebecca Hall says she doesn’t regret working with Woody Allen - a statement which unsurprisingly inspired many a headline. Shockingly, this wasn't the only viral moment of the piece, as Hall also detailed her unconventional wedding to husband and fellow actor Morgan Spector.And lastly, would you want a Sexiest Woman of The Year Award? Or is the men's one already bad enough? In a piece for Grazia titled '‘Sexiest Man Alive’: Here’s Why Lusting Over Men Is Different To Lusting Over Women', the writer Nikki Peach argues that the world is not yet evolved enough for this to happen. Do you agree?Thank you so much for listening - Please make sure you're following us both here on your podcast app and on Instagram & TikTok @everythingiscontentpod and if you fancy leaving us a rating or review... we heard 5 stars is nice this time of year.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ally McBealBreedersSay Nothing I, DoloursLucy Mangan, Say Nothing ReviewVulture Say NothingRebecca Hall Observer InterviewRebecca Hall brutally mocked over wild wedding day remarksOn People Magazine’s Sudden Interest in Black People for their “Sexiest Man Alive” CoverThe confusing recent history of People’s Sexiest Man Alive‘Sexiest Man Alive’: Here’s Why Lusting Over Men Is Different To Lusting Over WomenPeople Went With Mass Appeal for Its ‘Sexiest Man’ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm ready. Are you ready? When you're ready. Okay. I'm Beth. I'm Richira. And I'm Anoni. And this is Everything Is Content, the pop culture podcast that brings you the buzziest, most bizarre and best stories of the week. From long reads to memes to movies and books, we're consuming it all and sharing our thoughts

with a snap, crackle and pop of the roaring content fire. This week on the podcast, we're talking about the new historical drama about the Troubles in Northern Ireland, Rebecca Hall's shocking Observer interview, and why women don't want a Sexiest Woman award. Follow us on Instagram at everythingiscontentpod and make sure you also hit follow on your podcast player so you never miss an episode. And if you haven't already, make sure to listen to our third ever Everything in Conversation episode that dropped on Wednesday. But first, what have you been loving this week?

So I watched a little Christmassy film over the weekend, which was Eyes Wide Shut. Have you heard of it? Yes. Nicole Kidman and Tommy Tommy Cruise yeah yeah it's yeah it's a Christmas film festive yeah it's set at Christmas yes um no so I think this new thing I'm going to try and do is generally watch the most absurd ridiculous films that can technically be called a Christmas film Eyes Wide Shut for anyone who doesn't know, is Stanley Kubrick's insane sexual thriller where Tom Cruise is in a couple with Nicole Kidman, but they're having this kind of fraught moment in their relationship where Tom Cruise can't see his wife as sexual beyond being his wife.

And he ends up in this cult satanic sex club and has all of these mad experiences in the film but one thing I will say is it's set at Christmas so it is a Christmas film this is really making me laugh so it's my my ex said to me I was like I really really want to watch Christmas film he's like okay let's watch my favorite Christmas I was like oh my god I'm so excited I got like popcorn and chocolate I was like what is the film he said In Bruges I'd never seen before so I believed him it was a Christmas film again set at Christmas time never seen before so I believed him that it was a Christmas film again set at Christmas time not a Christmas film in the way that I was expecting very upsetting that is so egregious I mean Eyes Wide Shut I haven't watched in a very long time

does any of the action centre around Yuletide and the festivities of Christmas or is it literally a bit of festive bunting no No no genuinely I'm not even trying to be annoying. The beginning is a Christmas party, there's Christmas trees throughout like nearly every scene. It is like quite Christmassy all around the sex club satanic worship elements of it. That's how I celebrate Christmas anyway. Yeah. With Nicole Kidman's GQ piece I've been thinking a lot about Nicole and her relationship with Tom Cruise. That picture that came out of her everyone said it was when she got the divorce and she looks like she's so thrilled and she's so free and she said in the interview that it wasn't about that so I have been thinking actually a lot about Nicole Kidman is that why you watched it I know you said you had

another reason but was it because of that maybe all of those things were coalescing in my mind but it wasn't intentional I just feel like recently I really want to watch loads of her films. The week before that I watched To Die For, which is a film with her and Joaquin Phoenix, where she basically has this like mad age gap sexual relationship with a teenager. So it's not her first age gap sexual thriller guys with baby girl. She's done it before, she'll do it again. So I think maybe I'm just in a Nicole phase of my life, you know. I'm obsessed with her coming out and saying that that picture of her is not after Tom Cruise's divorce because Nicole Kidman's stands and sleuths have been scouring every internet.

They've been reverse Google image searching. They found pictures of her in that top with a friend and they were like, this outfit does not feature in one of Nicole Kidman's movies. There is nowhere on the internet where this picture is. Everyone is basically deciding to believe that she's lying and that it is a post-divorce picture. If it is fake news that we've believed that she's lying and that it is a post-divorce picture. If it is fake news that we've believed that she was running out of her attorney's office, I don't want the truth. Like I genuinely do not want the truth. I'm kind of

annoyed and pissed off. Like why did we need to know this? No one needs to know this. It's canon at this point. Yeah, internet law, 100%. I saw someone who did their divorce party a few years ago and she dressed as Nicole Kidman in that moment. So I hope she hasn't seen that news because devastating. What about you, Beth? My What I've Been Loving is sort of, is not as sexy as that.

It's also from the 90s though, so a bit of nostalgia. It is Ally McBeal, the late 90s TV show starring Mrs. Harrison Ford herself, Cluster Flockhart. Have you both seen it? Years ago. I have never seen this and you've just reminded me this is a giant gap in my pop culture, TV, obsessive life. I've never seen this show but I know I need to. Okay, I will fill you and anyone else in who might not have seen it.

Stars Callista Flockhart as a 20-something lawyer in Boston who leaves one law firm because her boss keeps squeezing her bottom and she goes to the law firm of Cajun Fish which is a former classmate from Harvard. She walks in first day finds her ex-boyfriend Billy already works there. They haven't seen each other since law school since he broke up with her to go and study in Michigan. He's married, she is single, she's wearing a tiny little short skirt she is heartbroken but continues to work there the whole setup I think of the first at least three seasons is this kind of love triangle but it's really interesting because she then becomes friends with his wife they're all very incestuous I mean not really but you know what I mean they're all kind of like very much

in each other's lives it's from the late 90s so it is a product of its time like some episodes you're like we don't really say that anymore but as someone who was maybe five years old when it came out when I watch it it makes me nostalgic for a life I never actually lived like being a lawyer in Boston I'm like the good old days mostly centers on her being this romantic very imaginative beautiful woman who spends a lot of time in fantasies in the very first episode there's all of these clips that use a very rudimentary special effect it looks like clip art watching it back but there's one where she's it's like green screen and she's in a huge cup of coffee snogging billy other ones where like she imagines

her boobs growing and it's so brilliant but it's also really moving it's also really dramatic they are lawyers so they try these insane cases There is one episode where a little boy played by Hayley Joel Osment of The Sixth Sense plays a terminally ill child who sues God with Lucy Liu as his lawyer. And I think he maybe wins, which just to paint a small picture of the kind of tone of the show and the place it will take you.

I am loving it. I'm watching it with my mum. I just feel very cosy. I feel very nostalgic I adore it so yes highly recommend Channel 4 there's nothing I love more than that era of TV and film early 90s it is that exact nostalgia because it feels so close and yet so far away because we didn't actually live it but it feels like it belongs to us were you being serious when you said you would have been five when that show came out that is genuinely baffling and insane yeah I think I think 1998 I was born in 1993 I'm 24 now I was born yeah I think

I was five when it came out so we must have watched it when I was 13 and obviously arguing my mom at the first opportunity I could just being an arsehole but we would sit down we would watch Ali on the DVD player get the boxer out and for that moment for that hour that the show was on we were best friends it was so nice I really really want you to watch it Ruchira and anyone listening I really think it's a cultural touchstone it's very important that we all have seen it I'm down I'll join in let's do it I'm gonna join in as well Anoni what have you been loving it better be from the 90s no I'm really sorry it's not you know what I've been loving because I've been texting you incessantly about it both of you it's Breeders

which is a drama comedy maybe a dramedy that aired first season in 2020 but I think it must have just come to Netflix because I've never watched it but there's now three seasons on Netflix which I binged those three series quite quickly and then went to find the fourth series which is on Apple TV I believe it stars Martin Freeman and Daisy Haggard as parents living in London bringing up kids and each series kind of fast forwards five years and the children get older. It is one of those shows that's so addictively watchable at the same time as being so realistic it makes your toes curl. They get along really well they're really in love but the dad character played by Martin Freeman has quite bad anger issues often takes out on the children often

is actually quite a bad parent they struggle to lots of general things that you would as a parent but it's very british it's hyper realistic in a way that's quite uncomfortable and it's made me feel good about the fact that i am not married and don't have any children anything that's you know validating my lived experiences as a single woman living with her best friend is fine by me. But it's also genuinely just so good. I can't believe I haven't watched it before. I think there's something wrong with me. I genuinely have never heard of this show. And when you mentioned it, like nothing came up. I don't know how I missed it. When is it from? When did it come out? That's it. The first series came out in 2020. It it's quite it's obviously done pretty well

I think a lot of people know about it a lot of people I've spoken to knew about it I also hadn't watched it but I wonder if that's because of where it was streaming initially and now that it's on Netflix I suddenly was like oh I'll give that a watch but it is and Daisy Haggard is a back to life if you've watched that which is a sitcom about a woman that gets out of prison after 10 years and she gets rehabilitated back into her local town that she lives in and kind of like back into society. It's actually like, I love Martin Freeman in this role. He's really unlikable, but it's just so good.

I'm glad you said the back to life thing because that is what she's been in. And she's so excellent in that, which is another show I think I should watch. Despite that being, I think an actress who's excellent, I watched that show, I think maybe three times, which is embarrassing. I had no like reference for that I was like okay The Hobbit and who so I'm very glad you said that I'm going to watch this my mum has already watched this

because I walked in and there's Martin Freeman screaming at a child I'm like what is this is it funny it is funny but I guess the whole thrust of the show is these parents would do anything to their children they will work their arses off they would literally kill for their kids but they also just can't bring themselves to be nice to them a lot of the time so loads of the first series is martin freeman's character the kids will do something and he'll be trying to like breathe be like i'm not going to shout at them then he goes in the room opens the door and he's just like shut the fuck up and it's it's really horrible to watch but it's so realistic this thing these parents talking about how much they adore their kids and they just want the best

of them and then actually often the thing they do is the complete opposite there's just something about it which feels very unselfconscious and yeah I just think you need to watch it it's it's just because it's just me waffling on but okay I was like I know exactly what I'm gonna say I fucking love the show it's the best thing I've ever watched went to explain it to you and I was like it's about mum dad mum dad shouts sometimes that's sad the thing is I get it I get it from what if that was what you said i get it yeah so moving so up first we're going to try and say something about say nothing the new nine part disney plus drama adaptation of patrick radden keefe's best-selling book of the same name the book

came out in 2018 the series just dropped last week and it follows very closely to the narrative of the book, which was about the troubles about the IRA and the provisional IRA and a now notorious woman at the centre of it all, Dolores Price, who was originally a peaceful protester, part of groups who opposed the partition and systemic discriminations against Catholics in Northern Ireland, and then later became an active and involved member of the provisional IRA in early 1970, when she was about 21 years old. I won't say too much about this for people yet to watch, but a lot of you will know her, the famous hunger strike, the interviews that she gave, which were released in a film after her death in 2013, which is what spurned Patrick Raddenknecht to research and then write the book. The series opens with the 1972 disappearance of Jean McConville, who was a 38

year old woman from Belfast who was kidnapped and then killed by the IRA, something they didn't acknowledge responsibility for until the Good Friday Agreement was signed in the late 1990s. Jean was a widow and a mother of 10 and was rumoured to be an informant for the British Army. The IRA did provide details of where her body had been buried in the late 90s, but it wasn't until 2003 that she was found. Now I have watched most but not all of this series. I know that you've both been watching it as well and probably lots of you at home will have seen it. It seems to have been a pretty big hit. I've been seeing really, really good reviews and it seems to have spurred a lot of interesting conversations. I don't know how far you've both gotten, if you've finished it, if you've loved it, if you've hated it, but I would like to ask, what are your thoughts from

what you've seen? Did you enjoy this? Were you familiar maybe with the Gene McConville case or Dola's Price? I'm two episodes in, so I'm now on my third episode and I've been loving it so much. At first, it really was a challenge because I'm so used to TV where you can just be on your phone, you can be a bit distracted. But with this, every moment, there was something that was integral to the storyline. There were names, there were people, there were micro movements, behaviors that indicated something important that was to come. So I had to block myself from doing that and pay attention. And it also deserved that attention. I wasn't super familiar with the girls and I wasn't familiar with the case of the murder so yeah it's teaching me a lot

already I am now four episodes in I'm completely wrapped at the same thing as you were too I started watching episode one was really enjoying it went to pick up my phone completely lost where I was and was like right no no no you cannot double screen this you have to really concentrate I to my shame only knew quite superficial stuff about the Troubles. And some of that came from Derry Girls, which is probably not the best place to get your Troubles information from. But this series, everything about it, I found really captivating. And not least, I think, and I think this is part of the tension in the book, but it's to try and look at things from both sides. In this piece in Vulture called Tell Everyone About Say Nothing by Nicholas Quar, he said,

the tension between righteousness and reckoning drives say nothing, which labors to maintain an empathetic view of how it feels to fight in a revolution, to live with its weight and to be caught in the crossfire, which I think is such an interesting thing to look at, especially at times like this when we're constantly talking about polarization. I think what the show does so well is you're able to see a 360 view of both sides. And I think that's really clever and really interesting when you're watching it. I got the book not long after it came out, but in classic Berth McCall fashion, I lost it before finishing it. I have recently picked it back up. And a lot of what you watch in the series is so closely and faithfully adapted

from the book, which is obviously a factual account of it. There's a scene in the first or second episode, I think, where there is a raid in Belfast. And when that happens, the women and children rush from the house and take the big metal dustpans off and start banging them onto the pavement so that any rebels in the alleyways are alerted and can go. That is something that is documented in the book. And I think it's those little details that kind of really struck me when reading it and then seeing it. It felt like a very faithful adaptation.

Did you both see the cut tweet about this that was highly memed and for very good reason? No, what's that? So they wrote, Missing Derry Girls? Try Say Nothing. FX's captivating series about the troubles in Northern Ireland based on patrick raddenkeef's book of the same name which people rightfully were like apples and fucking

origins what are you talking about completely like inappropriate connection because if you're missing dairy girls this isn't going to give you any of the warm fuzzies that dairy gods give you this is like a really raw factual account of devastating occurrences during like civil unrest so that is how i found out that they were making this adaptation really ridiculous by them but also like classic internet um so i was very excited after seeing that because i i'd liked what i'd read of the book and it's such a good cast how do you how do you recognize either of you lola petticrew is the woman who plays delores young or old she plays the young delores and the older Dolores is played by Maxine Peake who is one of my favourites.

What is she in? I don't know if I do recognise her. No, this is my first time seeing her. She's amazing in this. The whole cast I think is excellent. She's really good. It's astonishing how good they are as a younger and older. That's one of my bugbears is when you actually, even in Breeders, funnily enough, the kids as they get older they change the

characters every time and I'm just like that is not what they would have grown up to look like whereas young and old Delores are so well cast because we only see Maxine Peake kind of in this interview format as far as I know because I've not watched the end of the series so she is in it quite sparsely but like it's so powerful because she is sitting there as the real Delores did for the I think it was the Belfast project to record her accounts of this and I've watched these because there's also a film called I Delores which is on Amazon Prime at the moment. But it is so fascinating to hear it from her own mouth, all of the things that happened. She's completely unfiltered. She talks about her parents' republicanism. She talks about really what

it was like for a woman to be in the IRA, the disappearings that she had a big role in, including Gina Conville's. She was really vocally anti the Good Friday Agreement, Sinn Féin, eventually Gerry Adams. And it's so fascinating. And actually, it feels like Maxine Peet must have studied that really closely because she has so many of the mannerisms, so much of the straight talking, but like she's towards the end of her life. It is brilliant. If you did enjoy this, I would say go and watch that. But Gurdjieff, it is really tough to watch. Did you see that Lucy Mangan gave it quite a bad review in the Guardian which I was really surprised by? I did see that she gave it three stars didn't she? What was her sort of criticism

of it? Her main thing is she said that it does not focus sharply enough on the suffering inflicted by the central characters and her argument is kind of actually that she thinks it's not violent enough that it's too sympathetic towards the IRA they can be her argument is kind of actually that she thinks it's not violent enough, that it's too sympathetic towards the IRA. They can be seen as these kind of like freedom fighters. But I don't think the show does do that. I thought it was quite good at sitting in the gray. And obviously so much of it is literally based on these true accounts.

And as you said, the author of the book worked really closely on the show to make sure it was close. And actually I spoke to a friend who'd read the book who said that the show couldn't be closer to the book if it tried. Like it's such a great adaptation. So I didn't necessarily agree with her review, but she's one of the only bad ones I've seen, I think. One of her points was the Dolores sisters.

And I'm saying this is only having watched two episodes. So I don't know what their progression is like throughout the series as they're getting more in depth into this world. But she said that the moment that they're wearing wigs and they're like straddling these guns, it's quite glamorized, almost like a Bonnie and Clyde-esque type thing. And it's very, you know, like sexy in Hollywood. Her suggestion was that it could have been and should have been grittier and it shouldn't have been as glamorized as it was. There is something about it that is quite sexy. It's quite fun. It's quite alluring. But I think married with the fact that it is really violent, quite shocking and actually really harrowing to watch. Again, The Troubles is something that I understand in quite an abstract way. And now that

I actually want to read more about it and read more books centered on it. But I definitely didn't walk away thinking that this show is like a kind of shiny, sexy, silly Hollywoodification of something true. Obviously, it's a dramatization in ways that there's going to be bits that make it entertaining to watch, but I definitely don't think that it felt flattened in any way and seeing that it was a Disney plus production I was a little bit nervous that it would do like a really threaded through ill-thought-out like romance arc when like actually what they do is say very early on there was no fraternizing in the IRA we were women that were there we were freedom fighters so I'm interested to see that it's getting that same flack other things have got that isn't holding someone's hand and going violence is right violence is wrong

it's a gray area it is just letting it speak for itself and also I guess the story is all told through Delors account so it's like one woman's view and version of a history it's not a literal historical timeline of what happened it's just one vision and sometimes I think that's where we get caught up with shows and films we're always asking everything to be everything and for everyone but it's like this is just one viewpoint one story one telling and I think we need to remember to allow things to be that. Did you guys see Rachel Connolly's piece for The Guardian about this show specifically and how she had reservations before watching it, but she was pleasantly surprised. She was also saying and touching on something which is a bit funny, but also I guess quite cringe about how Irish-ness has become a bit zeitgeisty. She'll be at the pub

and the general response to her once her voice is apparent, people can tell that she's from Ireland, is that people will start talking about you know having family that are Irish they'll start saying various words to her that indicate that they're in the know about culture in the piece she talks about how on the one hand there's this general kind of awareness and appreciation for Irishness but also at the same time the kind of general knowledge about the trebles or very recent Irish history as you say is really piss poor and that kind of dichotomy is obviously incredibly frustrating a show like this she had very large reservations for but in the end she thought it did quite a good job and she was personally surprised she thought that

initially they would hire like a Florence Pugh-esque actress to take it on but they didn't as English people we do have quite a superficial tether to Ireland and it's very much kind of, we're all mates, aren't we? And actually, like, I don't know, even in this conversation, I'm very aware of not wanting to say the wrong thing. And this is an area that I have a real interest in, but I don't know very much. And especially not having grown up learning about this in school,

especially being, you know, English, especially kind of being part of that kind of British empire, colonial rule. Like it is, it does feel in very recent history. And then you look at the photos, the all black and white photos, but this was in kind of living memory. And there's an interview actually with ex-husband,

but he's still living. He was the actor, Stephen Ray, who you might know, he's an Irish actor. And he does an interview with Tommy Tiernan, who is a brilliant comedian, stand-up and actor. He also plays the dad, Jerry, in Derry Girls. I think it was like 2021 or something. And they're sitting there and they're talking about her and they're talking about, and you just think this wasn't of another life. And I think a lot of us are quite comfortable with imagining that this Irish-English relations are just, you know, fantastic. But even seeing Paul Mescal make his very thought out statement about not being super excited to meet the king, but happy for Pedro Pascal.

I think there is, in all of history, a drive towards smoothing things over at the cost of just like re-narrativizing and kind of erasure. It's funny because my mum's parents are Irish, but Southern Irish. And I was wondering as well if that's like part of the conversation, but I think it is part of an erasure about the British. We never really get told stories of when we were doing bad things in school, do we? Any sort of like colonial history on the British part is not something we're really taught about. And that should, as you say, we are so close to Ireland, it really should be something that we are taught about quite early on. Yeah, and especially with Brexit as well, I feel like so many people, myself included, were just realising that there is a massive fucking gap in our understanding

of what is happening, you know, our politics and the way it shapes everything around us have you watched say nothing will you watch have you read the book let us know your thoughts at everything's content pod on instagram in an interview with eva wiseman for the observer actor and director rebecca hall says she doesn't regret working with wo Woody Allen despite a previous public apology. Hall worked with Allen on Vicky Cristina Barcelona in 2008 and A Rainy Day in New York in 2018 at which time Dylan Farrow was speaking out against Hollywood and its continued support of her father despite her allegations he'd sexually assaulted her as a child. In response to this at the time Hall made a statement saying that she saw that her actions have made another woman feel silenced and dismissed, and that she

was profoundly sorry. I regret this decision. I wouldn't make the same one today, she said. Six years later, however, last Sunday, she went back on this saying, I kind of regret making that statement because I don't think it's the responsibility of his actors to speak to that situation. I don't regret working with him. He gave me a great job opportunity and he was kind to me. I don't think that we should be the ones who are doing judge and jury on this. People have obviously been quite outraged by this and astonishingly this wasn't the only wild revelation in the piece but let's start here and then go on to her interesting wedding I'll call it. What did you both make of her statement? Who is responsible for being judge and jury, if not the people in his industry? I'm just baffled by it, honestly. Everyone has

a moral obligation to work with people that they validate. I mean, I wouldn't work for certain newspapers or magazines, because I expressly think that what they put out is hateful. It is insane to me that I could use that argument because I've never lived my life like that. So I just, I can't really get my head around it is where I'm at, I guess. Yeah, it was a very privileged thing to say. And I've always felt very ambivalent to Rebecca Hall. And actually, this piece opens with Eva Wiseman saying, we all thought we knew Rebecca Hall. And I was like, I don't think I did. I've liked a few of her films. That was my entire view of her. Reading this piece, I came very close to disliking her. And I found it tone deaf and I found it obnoxious and I didn't like it at all.

It suggests to me a really worrying kind of closing of the circle on that time up, hashtag me too moment that at the time it felt like, okay, this could go all the way. This really could change things. And at the time, I mean, she was vocally on what I would consider the right side of things, donating her fee. I mean, she was vocally on what I would consider the right side of things, donating her fee. I mean, obviously, I would have preferred that she chose not to work some years after Dylan Farrow had come out. But it did seem like a kind of quite brave thing to do, and quite a statement of intent. And then now to sort of renege it years after the fact, just felt really exhausting. Like, it felt like a shield. And it felt like she's a very

privileged person, very posh woman I just thought well I'm not surprised I am disappointed I think it's so indicative of where we are that she had the gall to say this in an interview because it's one thing to think to yourself privately I mean I still think it's hideous but to be like actually I don't think I really meant that but to actually come out and go actually no I think it was an outsized reaction I think it's because I felt the pressure of me too which is kind of what she says in the piece you know everyone's talking about Weinstein everyone's talking about him I really felt like I was in this weird place and I probably should say something for that much time to have

elapsed and not to have become even more strongly on the defense of women and victims to actually have gone the other way and decided actually I'd rather not stand up for things I really just want to know paint and create and direct and act it seems a really sad thing to happen to a person, but it does seem kind of where the world is going, which is like you said, that kind of closing loop of we've swung back around to the other way. And I also, I guess it's that evergreen argument of can we separate the art from the artist? I think as consumers, if you love a Woody Allen film, I wouldn't hold anything against you if you're going to watch that and enjoying that if you're able to do that. I suppose it's one thing as a consumer to say, actually, I've got this favorite Woody Allen film that I've

watched for years, and I'm going to keep watching it and I'm going to be able to separate him in my mind. But I do think it's a different thing for an actor who's choosing to work with a person who's done something really despicable and is choosing to advocate for them and also the fact that she said if this movement happened now she would say nothing i think what an admission of cowardice especially if you have read which i think most of us have by this point dylan farrow's account of it when she it starts and ends with what's your favorite woody allen film and then accounts her experiences and her allegations that he molested her as a child with all of that and with everything that's

happened since really if if we had another kind of me too movement if that surfaced now you would say nothing it just really turns my stomach I said earlier like I wavered on not liking her I think actually I really dislike this I think it is a really egregious really revolting thing to say honestly I didn't really know much about her until this so I don't really have any relationship to her her films anything like that all I've got from this woman is this quote how can you say this in an interview the way people will shirk responsibility really concerns me I think it's such rampant individualism to say that it's not on me to make any decisions like that we're all making decisions it's why boycotts it's why protests it's why showing yourself showing make any decisions like that. We're all making decisions. It's why boycotts, it's why protests, it's why showing yourself, showing your voice, speaking out about anything

is so important. If all of us took this on board, nothing would be said or done about any single issue that exists in the world. What I thought was quite interesting as well as part of the piece is about her directorial debut, which is a film about black people who pass as white. She talks about how she historically actually grew up in a household where there was like a history of racism and no one really spoke about it. And so she speaks about marginalization, I guess, kind of like social justice issues. It's just interesting that she seems to draw the line when it comes to women's rights. It seems like a very strange parameter to put on things. But I also wanted to ask you guys, do you think Eva Wiseman had a responsibility to challenge her on that? Because Eva Wiseman had a responsibility to challenge her

on that because Eva Wiseman doesn't really react and then also later on in the piece goes to point out where she feels like she's similar to her it felt to me quite shocking that that just went and then the conversation carried on maybe that's how it's edited I don't know would you have expected her to kind of say really yes I would have expected a bit of dialogue about that but there's so many things that go on before something gets published that I think maybe I will always err on the side of assuming that an editing process has removed something that is contentious and I would err on that side only for the reason that I've loved Eva's writing for a while maybe I'm being super naive but I feel like something here maybe would

be about removing any sense of challenging especially when it's a celebrity profile because as we've said before a lot of these pieces are done with the expectation that somebody on the other side aka the PR standing in the room or on the zoom call is monitoring the entire situation and can just pull the plug at any moment. I mean, I have no reason to expect that this is the case here. But I think my leaning is always towards that because I've seen it and felt it and been in those scenarios so often. Yeah, it could very likely have been in the negotiations before it was, we'll have one question about this, we'll focus on this, but we really want to move beyond that quite quickly. And if you agree to that as an interviewer

and as a journalist, it's not great practice to then renegotiate that in the room or on the call. And I think if you agree, OK, we'll touch on this once and then we will move on. You then have to do that. This, I think, is an incredibly telling comment by Rebecca Hall. If I was her PR, I would have actually been a little bit like, oh, Christ. Because, you know, when you say something like that, that's going to be the headline. And it has been the headline. Rebecca Hall regrets apologising for working with woody allen but if you read other

interviews which i now have with rebecca hall she does seem quite i wouldn't say media trained because she is she is quite a generous interviewee as we've seen here she'll say what she thinks but she's been in the industry long enough she has parents in adjacent industries i think that there wouldn't have been getting much more out of it i think when the when it was done it was done it was very like final line I mean what else can you get from someone do you regret what you said yeah I regret it I mean that is kind of a bombshell so you said that this was the main headline from the piece but it wasn't the only thing that really touched the hearts and minds of many people the next installment of what did she just say for the piece was actually about her bring your own wedding wedding, which is basically a wedding where nothing is planned. And the guests sort of just arrange things as and when this included

artists Rob Roth leaping out the shrubbery dressed as a werewolf and singing if a double decker bus crashes into us and also the actor dan stevens calling everybody out to the pond as a blood moon was rising and giving them a candle to hold the internet has gotten hold of this and is having a very fun time indeed what do you guys think is this the answer to the problem of cookie cutter weddings or as an ex-user said is it a fate worse than working night shifts in asda it's giving theatre kids to me. If I ran something like this, I do not think for a second there'd be candle vigils with the blood moon. I don't think there would be people doing Amdram. It just wouldn't go down like this for me.

I would be booted from the group chat if I said something like that. I mean, it also just asks a lot of other people. I mean, I guess if you are that way inclined in this sort of artsy fartsy, you would love this stuff. It improv on acid on speed under the full moon obviously worked for her and her crew I was thinking of like what if someone said bring your own wedding I'm like what would I bring like for you two what would I do I think I would have your dog Anoni and your cat Ruchira would be maybe doing some sort of interpretive dance with me is what I would immediately think. I think I would really bring them into the action. I'd probably fake my own death. I would make it about me, but it supposes a lot of your guests to be like, put on a whole production. I mean,

it's very confident to ask. I have to say, she loves to shirk responsibility, this woman, doesn't she? Yeah, truly. So on the one hand, I admire admire her idea even though I hate the way it's executed because I actually have had a previous conversation with an ex-partner about sometimes when you've been to so many weddings you're like they kind of are all the same it costs so much money and we were saying is there a way that you could have a wedding where you just do like a garden party didn't tell anyone it's a wedding and just like we're having a big party and then at some point just whoever comes it's like they obviously want to be there and then you just get someone to marry you and then it's also cheaper because you can get caterers but don't tell them a wedding I kind of have

thought about because it's that tax that gets added on to a wedding once a venue and once caterers know it's a wedding so we were trying to work out ways to get around that admittedly she doesn't have those issues because she's super rich and also her friends are clearly absolutely nuts it just reminds me of when you read these stories you're like I can't believe that this is real life but I guess once you're trapped in that world and then you get money and fame and you're allowed to keep being like that it just shows what sort of monsters that really breeds it reminds me of Jessa from Girls when she I think does this i was about to say so jessa jessa with a little hint of money oh definitely toxic combination it's so and jessa would actually come out as well in years to come and be like i actually just think me too went too far like you could say at the time i think oh my

gosh i did like her comments that she made about marriage being the kind of bravest thing that she did and i traced that back to a financial times qA that she did and they ask what is the greatest achievement of your life so far and she says deciding to get married as someone who never thought they would the odds are stacked against it so it's a decision to choose positivity over negativity which I really liked that and I thought it sounded like something I might say if ever I got married later in life because I feel very much the same about marriage and kids I I'm like, God, what an incredible act of optimism, not for me. So I really liked that. But to kind of bring back to another bonkers Q&A interview, the Financial Times Q&A was bonkers. I've never read one before, but they ask her

that question. Then they ask her, do you believe in assisted suicide? Then they asked her, do you believe in the afterlife? And then in classic like posh people fashion, do you have more than one home? To which obviously replies yes I was like people live in a completely separate world to me I feel like this woman has never had a normal interview ever I didn't know the financial times was basically harassing their interviewees that's an absolutely insane that have you seen the picture that they chose of your Rebecca Wall and husband? And it is so much like that meme of like, we spotted you from across the bar and we love your vibe. They look like a sort of like Brooklyn cool couple

who are trying to liven up their marriage with you as the third party. The picture, which we can put on our socials, is like they're kind of staring at you with artistic intensity. And it's so like, we love your vibe. You're so so right that's such a good read of that picture would you say yes um I would say no no not knowing what I know now we've ruined it for ourselves we will of course link the piece in the show notes and we want to know maybe it is time that we make way for some non-conventional weddings but do you think this is how you would envision yours or tell us how you would do it differently we'd love to hear from you at everything is content pod

last week we found out that john krasinski was named this year's sexiest man alive by people magazine the news brought up some interesting discourse, let's say, including the reminder of how utterly bizarre and confusing this award is and much of its history has been. John Krasinski, I guess, hasn't been culturally relevant for a few years. He's not got a film out or a TV show. So it feels a bit bizarre that he's this year's sexiest man of the year. Also famously, the award is extremely undiverse. Vox pointed out this year that until 2016, only two men of colour, Denzel Washington and Keanu Reeves, had received the award. Aside from just puzzling over People magazine's choices, one discourse point that has been really interesting is just how political it

is to be horny on Maine. in a piece for grazia titled sexiest man alive here's why lusting over men is different to lusting over women the writer nikki peach argues that the stakes between this award and ones for women who are sexist women for example are completely different and the response to them should be two she wrote women have historically been reduced to objects of male desire and valued for little else. In an ideal world, we'd be able to hold silly little competitions for all genders. Obsessive fans would remain at bay, winners, losers and voters to be able to laugh about the results together, and no one would feel cheapened or exploited. But we don't live in an ideal world. In fact, women's rights are rolling back at an alarming rate and Donald Trump has just been re-elected president. If lusting over unproblematic men is all we have,

men, it's your own doing. See you at the cinema. So we've spoken about this kind of topic a little bit before. It really reminds me of when we spoke about Jeremy Allen White and the Calvin Klein advert and how women and gay men were just horrifically lusting over this poor man on Maine. And even, you know, figures like Timothee Chalamet, Paul Mescal, we can see how the internet has been quite aggressive in their horniness for these hot men, even to the fact that reporters will turn up on the red carpet with pictures of these men shirtless and just take it to them. But I was wondering, since we had that chat all the months ago of January, possibly, what are your thoughts about this piece specifically and the category of Sexiest Men Alive and People's Award? I loved the piece in Gretta, I have to say,

but before we get into it, can I just tell you about, I don't know if you saw this, but Dumois had a submission and the subject was Sexiest Man Alive. And it said, this A-list actor who is starting to fall from stardom was willing to pay millions of dollars to be chosen to be 2024's Sexiest Man Alive. He knows that people are losing interest in him. And he thinks that spending good money on the title is a good investment in gaining back momentum for his career. So there is a whole section of the internet that fully believes that John Krasinski has

paid for this position. And also now there's been loads of things coming out that hotter in people's eyes act has turned down so I just wanted to start a conspiracy theory before we got into the deep stuff oh my god Emily Blunt wrote that in no thank you I I had seen that and I was literally creased over laughing so I'm so glad you brought that thank you he was for a while like the internet and the culture's goofy Jim Halpert boyfriend like devoted husband whatever he doesn't occupy that space anymore so I was very surprised it did feel like we were in a time loop and we had gone back in time which I wouldn't mind actually going back

to 2014 and trying again there's some things I would do differently but I was like this is so random and I do believe actually that someone more of the moment like Glenn Powell like Pedro Pascal the rumored others would maybe have not wanted an association with it, especially as you said, Ruchira, considering it is a very white, a very kind of pandering, it just feels very outdated. Even if I'm not offended by it, I can see why it might actually hurt your credibility. I completely agree. It feels really washed up as a concept. I even forgot it had existed. I don't remember the guy forgot it had existed I don't remember the guy from last year I don't remember the guy from the year before that I didn't even know these were still going on it feels very like Victoria's Secret to me so this is this is a shocker to

me that it still exists honestly I think that what was so good in the piece was when it pointed out the fact that what you're saying Beth he does feel like a 2014 pick but they are like oh he's always fun he brings this vibe and it was like very much men are allowed to be sexy on the remit of the fact that they're like good vibes and sweet. It's like how everyone fancies Phil Dunphy from Modern Family, even though he's actually quite a bad husband. He's always like fancying other people and like almost trying to have affairs, but even if he doesn't know that he's doing it, but it's like men have this such a big scope for what classifies a man as sexy. And for women, it is so small. You cannot fall outside the parameters of being conventionally attractive and also be deemed as sexy. Whereas a

man could be objectively quite unattractive if you just saw a picture of him. But with context, we can be like, that is the sexiest man I've ever seen. It does not happen for women. Yes, they might be slightly different from the normal sex bombshell and they play a slightly sexy character and then everyone's like, oh my God, my guilty crush is so-and-so. Something I saw in the New York Times and I think they nailed it is it kind of feels political, the choice of John Krasinski. It almost feels as if the most inoffensive pick of saying somebody is sexy because he's comfortable. There's nothing particularly challenging about saying that he's much adored or much loved. It is like just picking a puppy. And they said in a piece, which we'll link in the show notes,

in a nation battered and exhausted by a gruelling political season, Mr. Krasinski was the ideal middle-of-the-road ticket, visually coded as preppy adjacent, in effect both familiar and humorous, evidently secure in his heterosexual identity, and so generally inoffensive as to be Switzerland of the on-screen virility. I don't even know if I feel like this pic is representative of how we feel online. Culturally, I don't feel like any of us are going towards the puppy dog boyfriend lusting that we used to do maybe, you know, a few years ago with the 2010 2010s where that kind of nice guy thing was such a big part of how we expressed the kind of people that we fancied I feel like all the people we fancy now like Paul Mescal as you said Pedro Pascal

maybe even Timmy for some people including myself yeah some may say one may say that one person would be me I I don't know they just feel so divorced from the guy that they've picked. It just feels as if they wanted to pick someone really inoffensive and they found that person. It's just somebody no one could argue is a bad person or controversial or edgy or anything. This is no offense to the deciders, but as we said, it's of a certain vintage. It's giving rear of the ear. Like Sexiest Man Alive is not for us. I just remembered that what's the character that plays McDreamy in Rose Anatomy do you remember his name Patrick Dunst he was it last year wasn't it was it last year yeah again and even then people were like

sorry he definitely was sexiest man alive at some point but it was probably like 15 years ago I'm wondering if maybe the people making these lists are just some lovely ladies in their 50s and they are just catching up with some of the shows. Maybe someone who has woken up from a coma is allowed to pick it. They fell into a coma in the early 2000s and they've just, they're catching up. What I would say is one on John Krasinski, because he's, I think he's a very attractive man, but it's really interesting to draw the parallels. He is a 45 year old man who has not had key cultural significance for at least a decade imagine a woman of who had those things and also like i think he's very handsome but he's not the adonis he's got you know a gorgeous bigger nose he's sort of goofy in his handsomeness if you could find the beautiful woman equivalent of that

i guarantee men on the internet already think she's a hag like it's just so funny to draw the parallel yeah so true I read a piece in um the Hollywood Insider which came out in 2020 and it was kind of skewering people because for three years straight they chose a black man to be the sexiest man of the year I think it was Idris Elba John Legend Michael B Jordan they kind of had this three year stint and the piece, which is by Tyler Bay, kind of points out, it does seem to be an overcorrection, a pandering almost of like, oh, I know that we've just had, I think before that, there was maybe one or two non-white men who were chosen. It did seem to be a reflection of the 2020s, Black Lives Matter. It did seem to be a really of the 2020s black lives matter it did seem to be a really

pandering and it just shows like you know time is kind of up on doing stuff like that it is very transparent it's very stupid and it does seem that they've returned to form by just choosing a sort of midly white man i do think when intrasale book won sexiest man of the year that was actually the only time that they were kind of on the point because i actually remember that was probably the last time that sexist man of the year, everyone was going, yes, it was timely. He is hot and sexy. He was actually culturally relevant.

And it kind of made sense. I was looking at the other winners. And in the history, so this is, I think, since 1985, they've chosen some quite older men. They chose Sean Connery when he was 59. They chose Richard Gere when I think he was in his 50s. It just demonstrates that, like you both have said, the span of what women find hot and what will quite naturally go, yeah, sexy, it's just a lot broader than men's, which I think underlines why men cannot be trusted with a sexiest woman of the year, because it would be

a teenager every single year oh my god it would always just be the newest hottest youngest thing out and available but then I wonder is that part of it like where we feel a weird perversion if we were to say that timothy chalamet or paul mezcal was the sexiest man of the year do you think some people would be like they're too young how old are they well in their 20s I think paul's almost 30 but I do think we kind of when we say sexiest man I think that does imbue some sort of like Silver Fox vibe for some reason. men appropriately but it just is very different and just culturally I just think that the way that typically we don't have a culture around female lust towards men that is as problematic and is as dangerous and I did read that they did have a sexiest woman of the year award once in 2014 it

was Kate Upton obviously and then for some reason they were like this doesn't work scrap it bin it which is very funny to me this whole thing is just making they were like this doesn't work scrap it bin it which is very funny to me this whole thing is just making me feel really cringed out and it feels really outdated it just feels like those magazines where you'd rip them out and they'd be like a nameless up-and-coming male star with like their six-pack and you'd put it on your wall something about this feels so deeply unsexy just like this magazine naming some random person that they've decided is the hottest person that year and then all of us going out buying that magazine just like flicking through it and just

thinking wow sexy man yeah I'm gonna spend three pounds on this magazine something about it is just the vibes are very low for me that's what I'm gonna say on it what it feels like is they have to submit the guy that they've chosen like seven years ago and then it has to go through loads of processing and then they can't change it so by the time it comes out it's just like oh well we had to decide in 2013 I'm sorry so like that's who it is and one thing I'll say I was just thinking about what you were saying about like the kind of ranges that we have when we fancy men that aren't done in return I think women tend to fancy people based on like a holistic approach right a lot of that

is vibe so someone like tony soprano is not going to be as hot physically as like somebody else whoever that is maybe harris dickinson but the vibes emanating erupting off that man you would have to be dead you would have to not have a pulse to not be absorbed because he fucks he fucks we're all able to have that kind of 3d 5d 6d understanding of sexuality whereas this magazine a does not seem to understand that and also just the premise of sexiest person alive seems to not engage with that which is what i think i find so cringe about it it feels so sanitized and so clinical it feels like it achieves the opposite to me where i look at something like this award and I just nowadays think that you're not getting where the conversation is going about sexuality and who we fancy and online lusting you know I think the other good really

good point in the Grazia piece about like why women don't want this is because once you're kind of voted as the sexiest woman alive that is such a big tarnish on your name whereas women are meant to be sexy we're meant to appear as delicious and delectable as is possible and be as attractive to as many people as possible in order to garner favor and become more successful but if you're kind of appointed that then it's really embarrassing basically for you and that's all that you are and it's completely flattening and I think that is a really good distinction to point out that women have to go to pains every single day. Most women pay so much more money than men in the way that they look and have to really put their attractiveness as one of the big pillars of the things that you do in order

to get on in life, especially in like these creative and entertainment industries. But at the same time, admitting to that or seeing to be proud of that is something which is not good. It's cringe. I think considering, like you say, the whole culture that we live in is already a Women's Sexiest Woman of the Year award for women. I'm going to say that again, for women. Whether you are a pro athlete, whether you are presidential candidate who's a woman, whether you are on trial for murder, whether you're a model, you are still subjected to essentially a daily are you hot or you're not if you're hot we're going to be weird about it if

you're not hot we're also going to be weird about it i think women exist in a sort of ranking system what we do is always then boil down to would i shag her the same does not exist for men so i think on the reverse of this yeah you know anyone thinking you know if we don't have sexiest woman we shouldn't have sexiest man I think it just misses the point like be serious the world is already a hot competition for every single woman if you got to this point in the podcast we are just going to say forget everything you just heard us say if you're going to be on the judging panel for sexiest man of the year who would you put forward who would you not put forward tell us in the dms we are desperate to know thank you so much for listening this week and don't forget to listen to wednesday's episode of everything in conversation where we speak about the demise of x

do follow us on instagram everything is content pod if you want to be involved yes you do in next week's discussion and you can also find us on tikt and now Blue Sky, where we are at EIC Podcast. And I have a request. You'll never have heard us say this before, but please, please, please, please do leave us a review and make sure to follow us on your podcast app. See you next week. Bye. Bye.