Everything Is Content - Women Proposing, Incel Influencers & RIP Cool

Episode Date: December 12, 2025

Hello EICongregation! Welcome to content church!This week we're going into the depths of the discourse so that you don't have to. Charli XCX is getting heat for the quality of her newest Substack essay, Sydney Sweeney seems to be doing a 180 on her recent public attitude, fridges may or may not be sending people into psychosis- and we're breaking it down right here.Also in this episode: Oenone's algorithm has been hijacked by a sharp-jawed looksmaxxer called Clavicular. Confused? We've got you. Looksmaxxing is a subculture that emerged in incel forums and focuses on teaching men and boys how to optimise their appearance through grooming, cosmetic procedures and sometimes extreme lifestyle changes. We discuss the implications of this kind of content as it expands into the mainstream.And finally a woman in America is getting roasted up, down and side to side on the internet after proposing to her boyfriend of 14 years. She said: "I really wanna get married. We’ve been together for 14 years already. He hasn’t proposed....So why not?” The internet replied: BECAUSE WE SAID SO. We discuss her decision to flip the tradition and whether shaming her for getting down on one knee is just another way to police women and tell them if they aren't chosen with a diamond ring then they aren't worthy.We hope you enjoy this episode and if you do- please leave us a rating and a review on your podcast player app. Ciao! O, R, B xEdit in collaboration with Cue Podcasts. Thank you Cue!------This week Beth's been loving The Real Secret Lives of Secret Mormon Wives (or whatever it's called), Ruchira's been loving Coyote Ugly and Oenone's been loving The Night Manager and Eternity.Links Charli's Substack - The Death of Cool Dazed - The Death of Cool INDY100 - Did a Pluribus advert really trigger a psychotic episode? E! - Sydney Sweeney explains her "silence"The Tab - Who is Clavicular? VICE - Women Want One Thing in Men, and It's Hunter EyesChannel4 - UNTOLD: The Toxic World of Perfect Looks The Cut - You Could Not Waterboard Me Into Proposing to a Man BBC Woman's Hour - Why Don't Women Propose MoreVARIETY - Actors on Actors with David Corenswet & Jonathan Bailey Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Beth. I'm Richerra and I'm Anoni. And this is Everything is Content, the podcast that dives into the week's biggest and best pop culture stories. Whether it's TikTok trends, celebrity tomfoolery or global politics, we are all over it. We're the cozy pop culture mittens keeping the hands of discourse and content nice and warm all winter. This week on the podcast, we're discussing the latest in pop culture headlines, controversial male beauty trends and the women being shamed. for proposing to their boyfriends.

Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Everything is Content Pod and make sure you hit follow on your podcast player app so you never miss an episode. But first, what have you both been loving this week? I've been loving Pluribus, just kidding. I have been loving Plyrobus, but I'm not going to talk about it. I've been loving hacks. No, I have...

Stop it, I was so excited then. I do love hacks. I do love Pryobus, but we've mentioned them before. The one I'm going to mention, we've actually have mentioned this, few times. And Routher, I've got you to blame for this. It is the real, wait, the real secret lives of Mormon wives, something like that. Can you, what's it called? The secret lives of Mormon wives. The secret real lives of secret Mormon wives, which I was marked safe from this show because I watched a bit series one. I was like, yeah, okay, but it's not really for me. Didn't watch it.

And then when the three of us were hanging out recently, we got into like Fruity Pebbles Gate, which is where one cast member has come out and accused another cast member of pissing in her husband's mouth and it tasting like fruity cereal and I was like okay I'm being lured back in yes you are right to gag but also like that hooked me immediately and I went back and I rewatch series one I've watched series two for the first time and now I've watched series three and the reunions I'm absolutely hooked I feel really naughty for it because I thought I'd escaped but now I'm such a big fan hate myself no one is too good for this show I learned that the hard way I saw it from across the pond I saw people gagging for it I thought you know I watch too much

reality TV it can't beat the real housewives but my god was i wrong it is the most deranged show on tv i would say the amount of nonsense and tomfoolery to use the word again it's just it's out of this world the men are wild they should be locked down locked in locked away in prison the women i'm not really sure how they're mormon but i'm happy to i'm happy to accept they are it's great oh far you are kind of convinced but you know i always feel like because i could never get into maths and all I have a real weird resistance to some reality TV, but maybe if it's that good, maybe I will. And then I'll recommend it next week. Yeah, it's got something about it. And it's really interesting actually. Some bits are

really quite sinister, but then there are some bits which I just find fascinating from like a anthropomorphical, it's not a word, position, like a kind of sociocultural, because they are these women like members of this mega church, this like revisionist religion, which has so much racist and sexist doctrine. But then they'll be like, we're sort of redefining this religion, we're smashing the patriarchy. They say this all the time. And these are women who are really devoted to marriage and divorces really taboo, even though they will get divorces. I find it really fascinating. They are coming at it from like using the feminist jargon, but also they are very capitalist and very wedded to the idea of like marriage and traditional life. So I think there is

probably an argument to be made that this is research. And I am sort of like David Atta But actually, no, I just fucking love it. Also, I have to say I crack up every time they say they're smashing the patriarchy with Mom Talk. But Mom Talk is them shaking their ass on TikTok. And I'm like, wait, wait, how is the patriarchy getting smashed again? Just like, give me some notes. So good.

What have you been loving with Chera? So to talk about a feminist piece of work as well, I watched Coyote Ugly over the weekend for the first time. Yes. For the first time, yes. I don't know how there's quite a few films on the essential watch list of being a woman, a woman, that I've missed. Like, Crossroads I never watched. Priety Ugly is a big one.

There must be more. And I think it's because my parents wouldn't allow me to watch them at that pivotal age of like 12, 13 when everyone was kind of catching up to them. So, yeah, watched it over the weekend. And my God, it's actually so good. It's so good. And I'm not even being ironic. I'm not trying to be too cool for school. I thought it was really good.

that film raised me like it informed so many of my choices my beliefs about what adulthood would be like my propensity to get on bars and eventually got chucked up clubs which reminds me actually i was some of the other day i can't remember where i was and i walked past a coyote ugly bar and i was like noted maybe need to go it's in central it's by piccadilly circus because i've walked past it so many times but it looks weird but i think we should do and everything is content school trip to the coyote ugly bar now oh maybe did we walk past it together but when we went to that screening. Yeah, it's that one. Oh, that's where I was with Richerra when that happened. Just a few days ago as well, it's so funny. I would go. Do you remember there was like a TikTok trend or something where the coyotes of the bar in London were like revealing themselves? And I think some people won't be very kind because obviously people are not kind online, but I was like, I want to be friends with them slash I want to be a coyote. Coyote? Oh my gosh. That's the other thing. Is it coyote or coyote? I say coyote ugly. Yeah. Do you think we need to tell people what coyote ugly?

is about? Or do you think this is so understood and you might be the only person who's not seen it? Do you want to give a little synopsis? Yeah, I'll give it a go. I'm so bad at doing this. Sorry, guys. So it is the classic tale of a girl from a suburban slash rural area, making it to the big city to try and fulfill her dreams of being a singer. But she has crippling stage fright. And there's also this kind of looming thing of her mom once went to New York to be a singer and struggled with stage fright. So it's like a parallel of her trying to fulfill the dream her mom never did. She stumbles across a coyote ugly bar. She somehow lands a job there, which is all of these sexy, empowered, amazing hot women in like leopard print tight leather jeans and like crop tops,

amazing wardrobe. And she somehow has to become one of them and dance on the bar and be really like sassy and like calling back to all the like mad men trying to like grab at them and stuff like that. It's an underdog story of her basically finding herself in New York and then making her dreams come true on her own and standing on her two feet. And also there's a love story, of course, because a film from the 90s and naughties can't be a film with a woman without a man by her side. But it's so good. And Tyra Banks is in it and she's really fucking good. I forgot about that. Me too. That was an excellent synopsis, by the way. Yeah, it was really good. Thanks. What about you and only? Okay, so I'm so annoyed that I watched this last night and not

before I wrote my 25 things for 2025. Oh, quickly while we're on substrap because Beth actually wrote a really good subset last night called Phonesick, which not to do again the recommendation of the recommendation. Okay, so guys, you probably have seen it because it's a 2016 show, but did either of you watched The Night Manager? Yes, and loved it. No, I don't even know this. So it's based on the thriller, 1993 thriller by John LaCari, and it stars Hugh Lorry,

Tom Hiddleston, Olivia Coleman, Elizabeth De Becky, Tom Hollander, David Harwood, Tobias Menzies, to name a few. And basically, the first season came out in 2000. 2016, no other seasons. And then now bring out a second season, which is airing on the 1st of Jan. So a friend of mine was like, you should really watch the first series. I watched three episodes last night. So it's about this night manager who works in a hotel played by Tom Hiddleston, who's like an ex-soldier. And it's around the time of the Arab Spring. And he gets given some documents to copy, which include a lot of information about like arms being bought. So he finds

contacts and sends them over to like people that he knows in the UK. And there's this really bad actor called Richard Roper, who's played by Hugh Lorry. It's like an espionage show. It's British. It's like some of the most impeccable TV. It's a BBC show and you could just tell they had so much budget. The writing is incredible. I've never, I don't think I've read it any John LaCarry,

but obviously he wrote Tinker Taylor's Soldier Spy, which is maybe his most famous other adaptation. But it is so good. I'm so gripped and all I want to do is watch the rest of the series like all day long, but obviously I have a job. Oh, that sounds so great. I think you would really like her chair. And I had in my head, I knew there was another series coming up. But I think I heard about it such long time ago that I just squirled it away. This has actually lifted my spirits a lot and gives me a reason to rewatch the show. Also, Elizabeth DeBickey is one of those people. You're like, she's amazing. But every time I hear her name, you have to mention her name. You have to hear her name. I think if I met her, I would be so overall. I think she's one of the most beautiful women. And I really love tall women as well. But it's like, that thing when you're watching Lord the Rings and Aragon breaks his toe. You have to mention it every time you see the bit in the film. You're like, he broke his toe for real. Every time I hear her. name I have to be like, you know she's six foot three. I knew she was tall and must be very

tall because they put her in flats in the show and actually even when an actress is tall, they'll often put them in heels anyway and then I assume they put their male counterpart like on a step or something. But I did notice that they hadn't even bothered with her. They're like, she's going to have to be in flat sandals throughout. But I do you could, I know she's tall but I didn't know she was that tall. That is, I mean, she is like a goddess and she's extremely good in this. Oh, it's giving big budget. It's just so, it's really fucking good TV and Tom Hollander as well and it is, oh, so good. Oh my God, I love him.

You've sold that so well. Maybe I'll give it a go over Christmas. That seems like a good one to catch up on. No, because, do you know, it's so funny? I thought I'd watched it. There was some really shitty Netflix show, I think, in lockdown that was called something similar, but it wasn't. My friend was like, if you watch the night manager, I was like, yeah,

I thought this news, okay. And then I was Googling it and I didn't think I have watched this. And I started watching it. I was like, how has this passed me by? This is unbelievable television. This is so good. I literally get all my recommendations from this show. Thank God for us.

I have a last minute recommendation, which is eternity. Me and and only went last week. We were lucky to go to a screening. And I think our listeners would really, really like this. I think you guys will really enjoy it. It really reminded me of about time. And it also really reminded me of how I felt with the holdovers where you get this warm, fuzzy feeling inside after you've watched it. And it just makes you kind of contemplate life a little bit. And it really reminds you of the good parts of life. And sometimes you just need a film like that, you know. So I think, It wasn't a perfect film, but it was good and it was great, and it made me feel really warm inside. And I think around this time, around Christmas, the end of the year, I think it could be a really nice one to watch with family or with friends. But is it out yet? When's it out, Rucheras? I thought it's not out to next year. No, it's available in Curzon and Picture House.

It's out. Did you cry? I did cry, Beth. And also, because Beth couldn't make it because she wasn't feeling that well. I was quite hungover. Rature was less hungover than me, but had had three glasses of wine before the film started. so we were all in different states of sort of like needing a Christmas party by the way

it wasn't just me coming to a film wasted it was a Christmas party so we got we got I got there and she was like you get free popcorn by the way but she was looking quite suspicious and I was like do you don't want it she's like no I've eaten and then she was like kind of sidling up behind me trying to give me her free popcorn voucher and I was like it's quite a big popcorn

I don't think I'm going to eat two and then she was like I have had three glass of wine by the way like really quietly and I was like oh that's okay I love three wine Ruja I meet her so frequently but Whenever I do, I'm like, hello, old friend. She messes you too. Honestly, but it was, so it is slow, I have to say, and I said this to return at Alters,

and I think you agreed, is that like, when it first began, I was like, oh, right, they fuck this because it's such a good premise. The premise is that there's this woman who, when she dies, has the opportunity to rekindle a romance with her first husband who died in the career more, or go back, spend her eternity with her husband, who she spent the last 65 years was. She gets to this sort of, like, waiting room, you go to this limbo before you have to choose your eternity. And then she has to decide which one she picks. It's such a good premise. It's such a good idea. And then for the first maybe like 25 minutes, I thought, oh no. And then suddenly

they just get it right. And I was bawling my eyes out. And one other thing I will say is that Dulya's fiancee, Camtana, who is one of the main guys in this, is hot. I agree. Agree with everything you said. So it's been quite a wild week in the world of pop. culture in the Wild Wild West. I think we just have to look at what's been happening. What have you guys been seeing? Well, what I know that we've already discussed Charlie XX's substack. However, she's just posted another one and already it is like the downfall. I think people were loving it at the point that we entered when she wrote her last substack, everyone was really enjoying.

They were like, it's so interesting how she writes on her own tone of voice and we really enjoyed reading that essay as we spoke about. But she's written a new one, which is called like the death of cool and it's in collaboration with Rabbit Foot, which is the publication that I I'm not aware of either of you. I hadn't heard of it, but it sounds like a cool name. I'm definitely going to look it up. So X user at Sinai Mango wrote, wow Charlie with the sort of like sad crying face. You do not write well at all. Oh. And I was like, ooh, that's a bit much. So I was like, I'm going to read this and see what I think. And I read it. It's quite funny because when we spoke about it, we all had different reactions. I personally think what I took away from it was

I understood what she was getting at. I like the way that she writes. I like the fact that she kind of doesn't use commas, all full stops. There was a few spelling mistakes. But I got her vibe. I got her point. And I just like hearing from her. And then I went on the quote tweets and oh my God, people are coming for this woman.

They're calling her illiterate. They're going nuts. You both read it. What did you? Because then I felt embarrassed because you were both like, it is a bit of shit. To be fair, I read it and I think I didn't sit with it for very long. But I did find it quite hard to read compared to the. the other two essays we brought to the table a few weeks ago. And I don't think this one was as good

as those ones. I really like the points she was making, but I don't think it was her best one. It felt more rushed to me. But saying that, when we had a chat about it and we spoke about this idea of what even is cool, is cool and commerciality, can they exist in the same bracket or is something that is popular inherently uncool. And then this idea of, you know, the pretentious crowd, the art crowd, once they latch onto something and it's niche, that inherently is perceived by that group as cool because it's subversive, it's interesting, it's just niche. And that same crowd wants that thing, let's say it's geese, for example, once geese becomes really popular and us three jump onto it, it's suddenly inherently uncool because we weren't the first people. We're like

the third tier of people who come to it. And I think that is a really interesting discussion, but I do think I was a bit lost in it. But the thing I'll say is the response to the essays, the thing I find fascinating. When did it become so uncool to try anything? I know Charlie XEX, she isn't a lay person, she's a celebrity, so obviously she wields lots of power. But I think the response of calling her illiterate and just being like, you know what, not everyone should write essays, not everyone should try to write, is such a fucking bizarre response. We've spoken about post-literate society. I think all of us should be trying to write. I think all of us should try and have a substack, even though that obviously

challenges the people who can get through. But I think the act of trying is so impressive and so cool. And the response to her putting this out has left me feeling quite disillusioned with the world a bit and the internet. It just, it feels quite grim. What do you think, Beth? Yeah, I'm a big fan of people writing, especially on substack. I went back on substack. So I've like kind of revived my substack. And I was really shocked. I was just squalling. And it was like Twitter, Pinterest, LinkedIn. It was so many memes. I was like, oh, good God. So I was relieved that someone is actually writing on the writing app. I'm fascinated by the topic of this. I think Kool as like cultural product and like victim of end-stage capitalism and like the history

of Kool is very interested. And I'm also fascinated by her like very unique positioning here, which is as someone on that knife edge of Kool, someone from within the machine as a famous and rich person who also is an artist and loves Austria is devoted to the wise and the wats of what she's making, not just the money. She didn't break my brain with this. And actually this topic has been written about fantastically well and talked about fantastically well in ways that will break your brain and change how you think. So I'm kind of wary of giving a celebrity writer an outsized platform. But I'm a big fan of people who've been like, yeah, I'm going to write. You don't have to be a writer to write. You don't have to necessarily get all your punctuation

right. You can just try it out. And I do think she's got a voice in an interesting position. But I just don't think she really reinvented the wheel on this one. I will say, I can't I think it was dazed or vice did a webinar over the summer, which I watched after the fact on YouTube. I think it's still available. I think it's literally called The Death of Cool. And that is very interesting. And it touches on a lot of stuff that she doesn't, like the history of cool, the kind of like the origins of Cool in like West African tradition and African diaspora and like cool as former resistance, cool as jazz as way of dressing as rebellion and born of like racial tension and then co-opted by Hollywood driven by like the youth movement, stuff like.

that, that is fascinating. When you think about that as like, that was a hundred years ago, now we are metabolizing, cannibalizing, ruining cool before it can even become cool. I think that's a fascinating subject and I actually would get into that with you both over a bottle of wine or microphones. But Charlie XX is sort of just writing from her own position, not valuable, but not as broad as to make me that interested. It's awesome. On the point of the importance of just trying to write for the sake of writing, I was just trying to find it, but there was a really good tweet I read this morning where someone tweeted like, what I don't understand is I read so much and I read just as much as I ever did at uni, but I feel like I'm just becoming less than less clever

and I can't understand why. And someone quote tweeted it and said because you don't just need to read, you need to write. Because writing, even just kind of explaining, like what we try and do at the top, which is actually really hard, which is like summarize the book you just read in four sentences, or the practice of writing as a follow on from reading is actually really important for you to more deeply understand what you just experience, what you just read, what you just watch the thing you just learned that is where most learning comes in and I was like that's such a good point because at school I never really learned just from revising you always would have to write out notes and we kind of forget that as an adult the practice of not just consuming and I

think it's an interesting place to think about at a time when even when people do read like how much we actually retaining of that I know I can be bad for that and often the reason I remember the things I've read is because I write them on my Instagram or I talk about them so it's just like an extra layer and I think we've also I can't remember what episode this song but we've spoken about all of us having had an experience of someone telling us. Beth, I remember you saying you were talking to a guy and you had to explain to him that you published books. I had an experience with a guy who told me that I wasn't a proper writer. I can't remember what your experience was, Ritra, but it was all of us that lodged in our brain so much that at some point it kind

of halted us in our tracks and stopped us and then we carried on. And I think we have to be really careful as a society to not let people be bad at things for a bit. The other thing is I really don't even think it's that bad. And I understand that the idea isn't groundbreaking. But I found it interesting enough to read. And I think maybe I am coming at it from a place where we see so much AI writing now. I see people that I vaguely know putting out substracts where I'm like, that feels like maybe you haven't written it. I think it's quite valiant that she's putting her thoughts on paper and unselfconsciously allowing for it to not be perfect. Because I do think that perfectionism is the biggest barrier to people actually creating and making. And often the

people that are the most successful are the ones that just do it anyway. Because if you try and make everything perfect straight away, you'll never get anything done. But I do understand what you're saying about the substance of the essay not being enough. But I do wonder if she's going to get people thinking or reading that wouldn't have been thinking and reading. We maybe read more broadly than those people that would read her substab. Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with you. And I think that's such an interesting point about the way you learn and the way you push yourself forward isn't just consumption and we live in such a consumption-heavy world and maybe not a world that values creation. I think also we live in a world that really values commentary. And I say that as somebody

with a podcast, but in my private time, I really want to one day write a script. I'm really going to push myself this next year to do that. And I'm really going to try and, you know, push forward a novel idea, a non-fiction book idea that I've had on the back burner and all these things that I would love to do. And it's important to me to not just critique other people's work. because I think it's quite a wimpy position to be in for myself. I don't hold anyone else to that account, but I don't think I could sit here and feel okay constantly every week, you know, critiquing other people's work if I don't also sit in the hot seat and put myself out there. And also on a personal level, I live for the pop culture game. I want to be part of it. I want to

put myself out there. So I do think, especially with platforms like X, where commentary is just, you know, quote tweet after quote tweet of other people's work, I'm feeling a bit sick of it. I think we all need to create more and we need to maybe not rely on the commentary so much, not to be, you know, like 80 years old, shaking my fist. But yeah. I mean, actually also, we did have a comment on our Spotify, which, by the way, I love when we get comments on Spotify. If you were listening to this, leave his comment. We enjoy it. Being like, I looked for Ruchero's sub-second. I couldn't find a heartbreak emoji. And I was like, me too. So Ruchero, you've been summoned. Talking of internet nonsense,

have you both seen this story? And I don't know if this is true. So we're going to take this with a big salt, salty, salty. But there was this story on Reddit, about a woman who had, she had schizophrenia, she had one of those smart fridges. She had seen an ad on the fridge for the TV show Pluribus,

which again, mentioning again, that had sent her into a psychotic episode for which she was hospitalized. I think it's maybe a bit of a myth that kind of invented for the internet. But it has raised quite a few questions about this kind of technology and like the ways that advertising

is making its way into people's homes and people are doing these like sideways ads which is really invasive. Because basically the ad was something like, we forgive you Carol, which makes sense in the world of the show because the protagonist is called Carol and it's like about a hive mind

trying to win her over. She is resisting. If I was called Carol, if I was someone that was prone to like, delusional thinking, was not having the best time with my mental health. Like that would probably set me on edge.

Did you see this story? Do you believe it? What were your thoughts? I saw it reported on Twitter by I think an outlet where it made it sound like it was believable. So I did believe it. But then I started reading the comments and everyone was like,

I just don't believe that this redditor has a relation called Carol who's in psychosis that's been triggered by this. So yes, it does seem unbelievable. But I also do think it is really interesting this idea that you would have what used to be called your white goods advertising to you. That is so strange in your own home. I mean, I also have to say I am up to date with Ploibus now. And when the season ends, please can we discuss it? Because I think it is generating such interesting conversations online about what this world and society that is built from this virus. creates and what it says about us and what it says about capitalism. There is so much to get

into it. So I would like to do that. The reason I believed it is because nothing is unbelievable to me right now. I sent it into the group and I was like, oh my God, well, of course this has happened. We're so far into the matrix. We're so far into the black mirror that this just feels like a natural conclusion. Because such weird things happen in reality, I wonder if I almost kind of forget that these things are happening on shows and this isn't just like a massive news article. I keep seeing headlines about this new COVID variant going around, but I haven't dug deep enough to properly investigate it, but I keep seeing headlines that are like, this new COVID variant definitely causes long-time chronic illnesses and everyone's like, why isn't this being reporting?

And I'm like, I just don't have time to look into whether or not this is true or I should be masking up. I just sort of move on. Like the level of extreme chaos going on day to day, I'm much too numb to it to the point of ultimate gullibility. What about you, Ritura? That is such a fascinating way that you've described that because I wonder if that's what's been happening to me. I check my phone first thing in the morning and I look at The Guardian and it's something about the Epstein files. Trump is saying all manner of wild things about Zelensky and Ukraine. And then you see something about this fridge made a woman exacerbate symptoms of psychosis. The real world feels wilder than possibly a fake story. So the fake story probably feels the most

reliable out of all of these stories that I've just mentioned. I just like scroll, scroll, scroll, and then it just registers for a second and then I move on. So I think I just believe this. And now I'm disturbed at how much I believe this without even checking the facts, because I usually do that shit. I have no doubt that this is where we're heading anyway, because it's like if a fridge has ad, I mean, that's horrifying enough. I was seeing tweets and people being like, imagine it's like 11 in the morning, you're violently hung over and you just want to go into the fridge and get like crispy cold Lucasade and you can't open the fridge until you've watched your like three mandated 30 second adverts. And I'm like, that is not far fetch. That is

literally the direction that advertising infiltration is going. So watch his space. This will be true in six months. Speaking of advertising, actually, did you see that Sydney Sweeney finally apologised for her partaking in the American Eagle jeans jeans ad? No. Oh my gosh, no. So she came out. It's really funny because everyone's like, you know initially in that interview that she did with GQ, she was like, if I have an issue that I want to talk about, then you'll hear me talking about it. And someone quote tweeted her finally saying like, oh, I probably should have spoken up saying if her movies are flopping because she doesn't stand up for things, then she's going to hear about it because people haven't been engaging with her.

If anything, it really has turned people off her. She come out and said that she should have addressed the controversy because it's widened the divide between people. But this was literally the other day. She said that she's come to realize that her silence regarding this issue is only widened the divide, not closed it. And she said that she's against hate, which I feel like is too little too late. I agree with that tweeter that she's recognized that this has had a knock-on effect in her

career and she's trying to do a step-pull change. Can I say something really rude? Coming out and saying you're against hate really reminds me of miscongeniality when they're like, what's the one thing that you hope for? And it's like, we're else peace. And it's like the most inoffensive, cushioned way of coming out against anything.

Like, we're all fucking against hate. Who's like, I am pro hate? Quite a few people these days. But yeah, she seems very much to be, she's following the PR advice and it does feel like she's in Flopsville at the moment. Just the movies aren't selling. And actually, like, to be a right.

wing darling is actually not to succeed in the arts and people realise that and so then they start signaling to their own moral goodness. And it's just like a very tried and true approach. And I'm not buying it and I'm like, I'm just quite exhausted by the Sydney Sweeney news cycle because it's so predictable and it just makes me feel very cold to water. I don't hate, I'm not on the hate train, but I just think it all feels very calculated and I'm just not really interested. If she puts out something that I want to watch, I will watch it. But this has been, I think, a very ugly cycle from when we talked about this for the first time over the summer, the ad, the GQ reaction, which I thought was revolting, very smug,

signalled to the only certain people that she was on their side. They ran with it. It's not very profitable. And now she, I think, wants to defect. I'm just not interested. I think with the Glenn Powell rom-com, anyone but you, that she came out with all the kind of cheating rumors that turns out she was a really big proponent of pushing that out there to try and get buzz around the film. I think she is the queen of celebrity rage bait and I think this was a giant misstep and she went too far into the rage bait. And it's interesting seeing that there is a balance with that. You can't just rage bait everyone into turning up to the cinema and talking about you. If you keep pushing that button, inevitably there is just an overflock of too much

irritation, too much with that person. It just, it feels like too much. Yeah, I also do think there's this, the privilege is showing like, I can actually believe that she genuine was just like, well, this is going to blow over, this is just ridiculous. Like, people that do not have a deep understanding, perhaps of these conversations wouldn't recognise that in a time of rising fascism, an ad that seemingly was definitely promoting eugenics was going to offend people.

And I think she's probably really coddled. She probably does have a really right-wing family. People love to dismiss the very true, historic, obvious points towards extremely racist and hateful things. So I think that I give her the benefit of the doubt that maybe she just genuinely wasn't aware, but then how you can be told that that's what it is and then be like, that's still fine

is where I don't have the patience for her quite lackluster reaction now. So I don't know what's wrong with my X algorithm but it really wants me to know about looks maxing and specifically this young man whose handle is clavicular and his real name is Braden Peters. If you don't know about looks maxing, it's a subculture that focuses on

optimizing physical appearance from your face to your body to your clothes and it's primarily aimed at young men and boys through grooming cosmetic procedures and sometimes extreme lifestyle changes. And clavicular is definitely on the extreme end. Recently he came under fire when a clip emerged showing him injecting his 17 year old girlfriend with cosmetic peptides allegedly on a live stream with the goal of slimming her cheek fat to sculpt a sharper jawline. That actually came up on my ex timeline as well. And he also talks quite a lot about using drugs like methamphetamines to suppress his appetite and stay lean. And he says that he microdoses it and finds it much more effective than prescribed drugs like Adderall. And everything he says

is self-reported. So there's not actually any evidence he definitely does take meth, but he does love talking about it. And he is talking about it to his over half a million followers across all of his platforms. And in a piece for cyber news earlier this year, Marcus Welsh writes that looks maxing is a term that started on mail-in cell forums to describe maximizing one's own physical appearance. Now it's been widened to include everyone who has preoccupied with beauty. There are various forms of looks maxing and it all starts at the jawline. Underlying these trends is a belief that facial structure determines success in dating, careers and life and for many, they may go tumbling down the rabbit hole. From DIY facial exercises to chewing gadgets and biohacking devices,

face maxing has become a booming self-optimization niche. It's so interesting to hear that framing of it because at the time we're constantly talking about the way that the beauty standards for women are making so many women feel insecure, inadequate, smaller, maybe more submissive, definitely poorer, whereas this is being framed the male version as encouraging sort of like alpha behaviour dominance and right wing adjacent agendas. Had either of you heard of looks maxing or clavicular before I was like, guys, I want to talk about this man that pops up every day in my feet. So I'd never heard of clavicular. So when you brought it to me, I was just like blown away because I have known about looks maxing for about, I think, four-ish years. And I used to

write about male aesthetics. I wrote a piece for vice talking about hunter eyes. And it's basically the idea of having Robert Pattinson style eyes to match having a really sharp jawline. And it's just these new kind of fetishized aspects of faces that were becoming really popular in in cell forums and kind of distilling down to more of a widespread mainstream male community because of the looks maxing wider subculture that distills to not only, I guess, really, you know, black-pilled men, but also just like young teenagers who want to have a girlfriend and just more of a like, I guess, the every boy or the every man who's very on Reddit, which is quite scary. And since you've sent this clavicular guy, I've noticed that my YouTube has been like promoting a guy,

and I can't remember his name, but the other thing that seems to be really popular at the moment is this obsession with facial symmetry for men. It will just be like these almost like plastic surgeon white dotted lines over their face that have been added on in a thumbnail and this before and after. And it's like these mad transformations, which I think must be lied videos where these men are getting plastic surgery secretly, but then shilling these like fake things that they're doing, aka moving their jaws back and forth, blinking their eyes loads to develop muscles in all these places. Absolutely bullshit. Just like mewing is absolute bullshit. Sorry to break any men's hearts. that are listening to this, all of these kind of like fake supplements, all of this nonsense when

I think all of these people are, in my opinion, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, getting plastic surgery in the same way the booty influences five years ago would have been getting secret BBLs and then shilling workout plans off the back of it. It's interesting to see the male equivalent of it and I think it is just as damaging and just as bad. And I think there's all these charlatans profiting of it. So it's absolutely fascinating, but it's so deeply depressing. If anyone doesn't know what mewing is, it was named after a British dentist who pushed DIY orthotropic techniques claiming that proper tongue posture can reshape your jawline

and he was called Dr. Mike Mew but he's actually now been suspended for spreading unproven medical claims in the past but he's still got a massive following just in case you didn't know when mewing came from it's Dr Mike Mew, the Charlotton. Which I'd heard about because it's like people like you should mew in photos where it's like you sort of like suck your tongue in

and it like snatches your jaw just so funny that people's people are just walking around like this I mean it's funny in a sad way masculinity is in the strangest place so obviously as a construct and it's completely right for warping and changing and being ridiculous. But it does feel like a historic level of ridiculousness has been reached. And it is really sad because, like you say, Ruchir, is really young men who are looking

in these forums and following these creators. And they're finding new things to hate about themselves. And it's, I think it's something like a quarter of teenage boys in the UK, hate the way they look or ashamed their bodies. And it targets that insecurity in young people. And also the doctrine that comes along with it, which is such misogynistic ideas. It's like teaches men to hate their appearance, spend their money on fixing it, but also blame women for that. Well, that's the way it works. Women are holding the gates of sex and love and relationships and my future and I have to do this. I have to harm myself to even think about accessing sex. It's such a disgusting ideology. It's woven into everything. And it's like watching it gain this level of credence is really scary. And it's this kind of level of self-hate and body modification is what little girls and young women have gone through forever. And it's,

it's now that it's catching more people across the genders, it's like, this is not the equality we were looking for. We wanted less anguish for everyone. It's so devastating. It's so fucking weird as well. It's really, do you know, it's so sad and it's awful for boys and it's so sad because the ideal thing used to be that young girls would be given the same freedom as young boys, which is they can just get dressed in the morning, wake up and go to school. They're not thinking about what other problems they've got, whether it's their hair or their skin or whatever. But at the same time, what I'm finding so interesting is this is also harming women because so much of the layered conversation underneath this looks maxing is all about control power

in cell culture, ways to control women, ways to get like the hottest women. So it's, it's really odd that there's this like dual thing going on, which is that yes, it's damaging for young boys and men who are going to become more insecure, but the ultimate goal is still to reinforce these gender roles. So while beauty ideals for women reinforce their subservient nature, the amount of money and time that we spend, focus on the way that we look so that we can't spend our time doing something more useful. Men are spending more time on finding ways to make women stay in that subservient role. And I just think that's, it's so sickening because makeup for boys, I can get behind. I actually love it when I sometimes get a teenage boy coming off my feed being like,

I'm getting ready to go on a date with my girlfriend. I'm going to put a concealer on. I just think, oh, that's really sweet. If you want to cover up your spot, because it is hard when your teenager having a spot. And I love that boys want a bit, a bit of concealer saved my life when I was at school. And I think it's really sweet that boys can have that too. I think that makeup can be play and it can be useful. But like this level of beauty intervention, cosmetic surgery, drug taking, the fact that he's actually advertising that. When I saw him injecting his girlfriend on that video, I couldn't eat. I just, the ego on these people. I mean, it's just terrifying. Again, as we say, like we don't know these claims. And he's acting like some kind of pseudoscientists. So he talks about, you know,

this methamphetamines are actually this and it's prescribed for this. And I'm taking such a low dose that actually the impact is, and it's really, really convincing. But it's like, where are they getting this time and money, where are the parents in all of this? I mean, not to blame the parents, but where are they of that girl and him? And I just think that clearly that we have a problem with legislation. You just don't know what your child is watching online. It reminds me because I also started watching Broadchurch after a chair and prevented it because we are merely a podcast to recommend stuff to each other. And one of the things in one of the series is again about like things young people see online and we've seen adolescence. And it's like, God,

something needs to happen because it's getting, it's like you could not predict the next thing that a young person is going to come across, aka a young man being like, yeah, if you just microdose some methamphetamines, then you'll look better. What? My God, it's just like the bar keeps moving further and further and further and at this point it is brushing the absolute flames of hell. I am just becoming so sick by this obsession with aesthetics and the more we see the different, like, arms and tentacles stretching out and the different kinds of people that's affecting. I'm just so sick of it. This belief, this core belief that I don't even think is as factual as is being presented all over the internet that your life will be better if you

are stark-jawed, amazing hair, beautiful skin, hunter-eyes, whatever, or you have full luscious lips, gorgeous hair, all of this stuff. It's just boring. It's so boring. Like, no one's living their life, you're pumping amphetamine allegedly into your body. You're becoming more disassociated from the world. You have a relationship where you're obsessed with how she looks and yourself. God knows what your conversations are. Your belief about the world and your belief about relationships and people and what is important is so skewed. You have finite time on this earth. This is how you're choosing to live your life. Life is difficult enough without having this core belief about how the world operates and how your life could be better if you spent infinite amount of

time and money changing how you looked on the outside. It is poisonous. It's poisonous. It also removes valuable time from this earth when there's already been so many actual issues going on. And I know it seems like such a basic point, but the more we see this ubiquitous belief about the world and how people don't respect you if you're not beautiful, it's just so extreme that it's like gone far beyond the scientific research that I believe probably exists about pretty privilege. It just goes so far into a different direction where it's just like, you know, your life is unsafe. You are disrespected. People aren't kind to you. You won't get a girlfriend unless you're beautiful. It's just not true. And it's such a cruel way to live life. And it's such a horrible,

poisonous way to live your own life. I just, I think it's so dangerous. Describe it perfectly. It is, it's a con. And a lot of this stuff, it's for other men. It's sold to you by other men, and it's for the approval of other men. I think we know so many things like many men overestimate what their good looks, what that stock jaw will do for them. And the things that straight women, time, time again, say that they value in a man, like confidence, kindness, generosity, self-awareness, being like a solid person. We say like, this is so hot, this is what we want. Like a tall guy with a jawline may be nice to look at, may get surface attention, but a long, loving relationship, good sex. Like, that will not happen. That's what the

claim is that we want that. And we're saying otherwise. And it's like men are telling you what women want. Women are telling you otherwise. You are believing men because of the patriarchy. So often, like the reason someone is single and lonely is because of this really fucked up ideology. It is like, what's the thing? It's like you're not an insult because you're lonely. You're lonely because you're an insult. It's that way around. And actually, anyone who is interested in this, I watched a really good documentary on Channel 4. I think it was this year or last year by the reporter and filmmaker Ben Zand called, it's like the Untold series. It's called The Toxic World of Perfect Looks. And that is very good. And he looks at looks maxing

the young men who are injecting their own faces with stuff, lemon bottle, which is like a fat dissolver, people who are reportedly hitting themselves in the face with hammers so their jaw goes back stronger. I mean, this is like unverified as far as I'm aware, but like people are saying they're doing it. I actually do believe that people are doing this. Leg lengthening surgery, which is like breaking your own bones

to grow back three inches taller. It is such a grisly and gruesome world, but this is a really good documentary on it, if you can stomach it. You're so about, I'm sure you both would have seen this, but about mending it for the member because the other day there was this tweet going around where this man was like,

the girl will always pick the girl the left and the guy on the right was Brad Pitt and Fight Club looking like the hottest anyone's ever looked and then on the left was an extremely like kind of like steroidy bodybuilder man now no shade to those men that was my particular flavour especially when I was at uni I was very much into that but the general consensus was that no Brad Pitt is already in peak physical condition in that film and like one of the hottest people you've ever seen and they're going women would never want that and it's like actually they do and also this is a massive piece of pop psychology and I can't remember when I read it and I don't know what publication it is was

in. But I remember they were saying, and I don't want to say there was a study because that sounds way too spurious, but they were talking about actually people that are much more involved in the way that they look tend to not have as long-lasting relationships as people that don't prioritise that, who maybe are less conventionally attracted because they find value in all of the important things that you were saying, Beth, like how someone makes you laugh and like the way that you get on. And actually people that are more attractive might have more success in dating or in having more sexual partners. But actually when it comes to long-term love, it's that sometimes actually isn't the result. And I think that's also

really an interesting place to look at. But yeah, either way, I think we're fucked. 2025 is Elipia, which by Irish folklore should mean that women are allowed to propose to their boyfriends. Exciting. Well, no. Not if you're one of the many women on TikTok who revealing that they would rather be waterboarded, eat jean jackets, mop the Atlantic, or literally die, than get down on one knee and ask their man to marry them. So for a bit more context, a woman on TikTok recently posted a video where she said, quote, I'm getting ready to go in the shower and it's finally hitting me that I'm proposing tomorrow to my boyfriend, end quote. The woman who is called Estella explained, this is just something that I feel I have to do. I really want

to get married. We've been together for 14 years already. He hasn't proposed. I know he wants to spend the rest of his life with me. He says it all the time. And we're in love, even after this long. So why not? Well, apparently for a lot of reasons. The video which has at the time of recording been seen 11.5 million times is still going viral and in the comments and response videos, hundreds and hundreds, probably thousands actually, of women are aghast at the situation. They're arguing that he hasn't asked her because he doesn't want to. He likely doesn't love her as much she loves him, isn't truly committed to her and is probably very embarrassed by the whole situation. And in a piece full of cut, Andrea Gonzalez-Ramirez explored

the discourse and the idea that proposing to a man in 2025 is nothing more than a humiliation ritual. She writes, quote, marriage requires comparatively few things of men. They need to pop the question, show up the altar and provide for their family. There is less societal pressure for them to handle an equitable share of the household labour, take care of the children or work to maintain the relationship. It's no wonder then that a man failing to ask his female partner to marry him after so many years causes collective outrage. Do women really have to take on the work of planning the proposal too to secure the life they want so what did we all think of this is it lovely romantic she got down on one knee is now engaged to the love of her life or is there something buried in this discourse

that actually is worse paying attention to i can i understand and we are living in a world of our boyfriends embarrassing next week we're talking about women quietly quitting their husbands we understand the downfalls of being in a heteronormative relationship heteropessimism has been the word of 2025. Yes, men can be bad in relationships. And so I can see how people can extrapolate from that, this narrative. At the same time, I just think let women enjoy their lives because the only people that ever seem to lose in these conversations is the women. And that's kind of ultimately what always come down to. And another just side note, Belamaki proposed to Greg James. And I think they are one of the best couples in pop culture. I actually think it's quite chic. I think that not every man

is the same man. Men are not a monolith, even though I'll never say not all men because it could be all of them. But obviously people have different personalities, people have different wants and needs. They might, your dynamic could be such that that makes sense for you. And I think all power to you, if you want to propose your partner, why can't that be lovely? If we're aiming to get to a point of equality, equity, parity in relationships, then we have to allow for people to do things in a different way than what we might expect. I get the humor in it and I get that this is the current conversation of the internet, it's like men are trashed but evolved. And as much as those things all come from really important, useful, necessary conversations because of the ways

that we know that men do hate women and the kind of things that Laura Bates writes and those really serious conversations, I think sometimes it gets extrapolated out too far that the punch bag just becomes the women again. And then it's like, whose side are we really on? What do you think, Ruchera? I got really pissed off seeing the reaction to this lovely woman's TikToks. I think people need to fucking get a grip, honestly, and it makes me quite angry on her behalf. I think people saying they'd rather get waterboarded than to propose to a man is embarrassing, honestly, and it just makes me think, what is your idea of feminism? What is your idea of an equal version of the world that we live in now? What are you wanting from the world?

Because I think if you have got to the point where your partner has shared that they want to share their life with you, is it not beautiful regardless who pops the question that you've started this new chapter of your life? Just to give you a little tidbit, when I got engaged, my partner proposed to me, and then I got a ring back for him the week after, we'd had a lot of like life crises stuff in between on my side. It just was such a bizarrely like full circle moment of being like, this person is my life partner. And it was this one way that I could show I really value in my life. I will not, you know, propose back to you. I've always wanted a 50-50 relationship. I don't want to be this delicate flower who is being proposed to, being asked for, like, passive. person in a relationship, especially if you're building a life together. Not everyone has to agree with that, but I just think if you are wanting a different kind of relationship from the gender normative things that we've seen from our parents, from the problematic rise of fascism and gender tropes from the 1950s all around us, how can you still be holding on to this one idea of marriage and engagement that is so old-fashioned, and how can you not only hold onto it, but judge people who are trying to break from the mould of history and redefine what marriage is? That's amazing.

that is incredible. You can't be pessimistic about heterosexual relationships and just say, oh, men are all the same, men are useless, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then have such fixed ideas that revert back to the 1950s about starting a life together with a male partner. It just is, it's so hypocritical to me. And I really find an issue with it. And I'm sorry that I'm being really impassioned about it. But I felt so upset for this woman. I felt so upset seeing tonally what the internet was saying. I felt so disappointed. What did you think, Beth? Yeah, I actually surprised myself as well of being. really on her side and really anti the way that people were talking about. And I have a lot

friends, straight people, or at least in heterosexual relationships, who the woman proposed to the man either since I've known them or sometime before. They are by large the most aspirational couples. They have a really tight and really modern way of dividing labor and communicating about things and like doing it a different way and a way that is long lasting. Like it does shake up what we have understood to be the right way to do marriage and partnership. And I'm finding it really interesting and really disappointing how many women are so clearly attached to this being the right way around and that it is some way like to be chosen and he has to ask. He has to buy the biggest ring. He has to do it this way. And it's like you are claiming to be heteropessimistic or at least like I don't want to be trapped. I don't want it. Like it's really regressive. It's not at all as empowering as they are making it seem. And especially when they're framing it as like concern for the women. Like a lot of the comments annoyingly were quite funny. There was someone being like, I would write. I'd rather paint my house with an eyelash than proposed to a man. That's a funny line. But in this context, it's just shaming her. It's a complete misuse of comedy. I was kind of annoyed that I did

laugh at that. So many of the comments were actually just straight up and masculating him, like cartoons of women cradling their husbands, like holding them like the bride, men in dresses. It's just, that I found really embarrassing, people basically being like, he's gay and he hates you. Obviously, sometimes men are gay and they hate you. But there is no reason to think purely on the basis of long-term relationship, kids together, she's the one who asked the question, she's the one that makes the decision, we're going to get married now. I think that's quite empowering. And even if he was gay and hated her, it would not be helpful to pile on. It would not be kind. It's so 2025 internet. We're all horrible beasts.

Oh, fuck. This is really reminding me of. Did you see the recent Actors on Actors interview with David Corencwear and Jonathan Bailey, where David Corencwear, he was so impressed by how masculine Jonathan Bailey looked in Wicked for Good when Cynthia Reevo is carrying him on the broomstick. And he was like basically asking him how you managed to do that. And Jonathan Bailey is that like, oh my God, how do I get around this? It's kind of what it makes me think about because it's like this idea that these women doing these videos of making this joke and the joke is the idea that like they're not as pathetic as that. But actually what you're doing, as you've both said, is like participating in quite a submissive narrative, which is that the man decides when

your relationship is ready for marriage. And then that continues on the vein of your father then walks you down the aisle and gives you away. Like this is a very traditional lineage of men deciding your fate and your future. And I think it's really cool if you want to be the one that proposes because why can't a woman decide that actually I'm ready to decide that my relationship is now worthy of marriage and that I want to be with this man forever? That is what they're saying. It's not that you've lost anything. It's not that your man loves you less or that it's so cringe. It's absolutely not that. It's like asking how did you look so mass in Cynthia Areva's arms. It's just a dumb, it's just, it's a nonsensical question.

And it's like, that's all I keep thinking about when you're talking. What is so funny, like you were saying, Beth, is people are tying themselves up and not really realizing that all they're doing is following a convention that already exists, but trying to repackage it up as some sort of like feminist thing when it's absolutely not. And we've completely lost sight of why and how we have certain beliefs. And people do like to kind of pick and choose what they think is relevant. So alongside really ardent feminist arguments, they will be saying things like this. and you just think we've lost the text, like the law, the history, like how do people not know where all of this comes from? And marriage is inherently such a traditional structure. And there was another really, sorry, there's such a funny tweet recently that was like, sex is just for marriage.

Sex was invented for marriage and you should not be having sex for your own pleasure. And someone quote Tito because they were like, yes, famously marriage evolved before sexual reproduction. It's just like sometimes we just had to stop and think about what you're saying. And I think part of the problem is that this kind of thing does go viral and it is a conversation that is happening. And if you tap into it, because it is, I'm sure that some people would say, well, it's obviously tongue and cheek. I'm not saying I actually want to be waterboarded like you're being too woke. Sorry about us. I know it's a joke, but ultimately it did piss me off.

I just think this poor woman, it's really sweet. And she's obviously really happy with her decision. She's posting it online. I think having that much vindication in your choices to decide that you're going to be the one to propose and then you're going to post it online. good for you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think it sits in isolation that there's all these trends like the princess treatment and the video of a woman talking about, I just let my husband order at a restaurant and I don't say a word and that's him living in his masculinity and that's me living in my femininity. I think all of these trends are just gateways into everything we've

spoken about, which is these really regressive ideas about gender, we should be breaking them, we should be challenging heteronormativity, especially if you're feeling pessimistic, about the state of heterosexual relationships. We shouldn't be looking back at what worked. We should be trying to redefine the rules. I think that's why it's really interesting to hear about queer relationships and different kinds of relationships, polyamory, relationship, anarchy, all of these different things, because you might not agree with them,

but there doesn't have to be one fucking script. And I think it just seems like we're narrowing down, and that frustrates me. And just to like entertain the other side, I do understand having pause and being like, okay you've been in a long-term relationship you want marriage he has not proposed despite the very established script and maybe that is you should look at that and I know women in general get the shit end of the stick in marriage and also in life and relationships and I say to young women all the time like make sure your material reality with a man is as good as it is in your head that the abundance is not only imagined or not only theoretical that it is real so I relate to the

fear in some women when they see stuff like this but ultimately as we've said a million times It's like, this is a stranger, and we should trust women to know their own lives and their own minds. And when they do take a different path, make a different choice, the assumption being like, well, she's a stupid bent, sorry to use such coarse language, a stupid bent. The assumption that she's that, instead of just like, wow, okay, it's a different way of doing things. Maybe good luck to them. That speaks a lot more to our attitudes to women as other women than anything else. Because it was a lot of women in these comments, and a lot of them were not being very nice. What happened to good for her?

We need to bring that back. Thank you so much for listening this week. And on the subject of listening, have you caught up with this week's bonus episode where we discuss whether vegans are vanishing, and if so, why? If you're a fan of the podcast, new or old, then please do consider leaving us a rating and a review wherever you're listening and a Spotify comment. We do absolutely love those. It's how we can grow and keep making the show, which we love to do.

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