Experts of Experience - #42 Preserving Human-to-Human Relationships in Retail

Episode Date: August 7, 2024

On this episode, George Hanson, the Chief Digital Officer at Mattress Firm, discusses how innovative technologies are revolutionizing the retail space and enhancing customer satisfaction. He emphasizes the importance of starting with customer needs and finding ways to transition from online to in-store experiences as seamlessly as possible. Plus, he talks about the central role of retail associates in the customer experience and the need to provide them with the tools and technology they need to succeed.Tune in to learn:The Role of Sleep Experts in the Mattress IndustryThe Need to Preserve Human-to-Human Relationships in RetailThe Importance of Building Trust and Transparency in the Age of AIHow to Create a Seamless Online-to-Offline ExperienceHow To Improve Sleep Health with Data-Driven InsightsWhy You Should Be Mastering the Art of Better Sleep–How can you bring all your disconnected, enterprise data into Salesforce to deliver a 360-degree view of your customer? The answer is Data Cloud. With more than 200 implementations completed globally, the leading Salesforce experts from Professional Services can help you realize value quickly with Data Cloud. To learn more, visit salesforce.com/products/data to learn more. Mission.org is a media studio producing content alongside world-class clients. Learn more at mission.org.

What do we need to be thinking about to get the best possible sleep? Number one is consistency. Trying to go to bed at the same time, waking up at the same time, even if it's the weekend. Number two, super dark room. Invest in those blackout shades. Keep the room temperature at 65 degrees and make sure your mattress and your pillow all are working against your sleep disruptors and for your sleep preferences. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Experts of Experience.

I'm your host, Lauren Wood. Today, I am speaking with George Hansen, the chief Digital Officer at Mattress Firm. We're going to be diving into how innovative technologies are revolutionizing the retail space, enhancing customer satisfaction, and driving the future of seamless shopping, both online and in-store. George, so wonderful to have you on the show. It's great to be with you and your listeners, Lauren. Awesome. So you have a rich background and experience in both the online and physical retail spaces. You spent time at Panera, at Under Armour, at Land's End, and now at Mattress Firm. And I'm curious to just kick it off by getting your take. What are the current trends and changes and technologies that you're seeing in the market

today that are really shifting how you think about retail as a whole? I can't answer that without including artificial intelligence, right? It's something that is on everybody's radar screen. I think our approach to it is really ensuring that we don't start with the technology, but we start with the question, how can the technology enable our strategies, right? Our strategies somewhat should be agnostic to technology or should be starting with the customer, starting with the enterprise value impact and the associates. So that's really how we think about our value framework is what's the value to the customer, what's the value to our associate, and what's the value to the company?

And then how does technology, and to your question, how do recent technologies help us accelerate, evolve, or potentially reprioritize our initiatives around that value creation? So artificial intelligence is certainly one of them. We're seeing a lot of really interesting things that we're enabling and empowering our sleep experts in the stores with. In our model, 90% of our transactions happen in the store. 90% of those customers are first starting online, but the decision point is often happening in the store and empowering the sleep expert with that customer data, with the right product recommendations, with the right holistic approach to that in-store experience, there's a lot of technologies that we're empowering them to serve that customer better with.

George, you're hitting on perhaps my favorite topic, which is really how the employee experience drives the customer experience. And in this case, in your business at Mattress Firm, like you said, most of your business is happening in real life on the floor with humans talking to humans. I'd love to just double click on what you're sharing there. And how are you empowering your team to really service your customer and their needs? Our model is really unique. So we have some of the most highly paid retail associates in retail with some of the lowest

turnover in retail with some of the lowest turnover in retail with some of the highest NPS scores in retail. It was really surprising as I came into this business to see the role and the importance of that retail associate. It's very different than most other retail verticals. And so we empower them with tools to help them diagnose, in our case, the customer's sleep disruptors, sleep preferences, and match customers with the right sleep solution. And most people, when they're thinking about, I need a new mattress, aren't thinking about that. But our sleep experts actually get more training on sleep wellness than doctors do in medical school. And so that really is the customer experience when they walk into a store, they're not being directed to what's on sale or what, you know, what the sleep expert wants to

sell. It starts with what are your sleep disruptors? What are your sleep preferences and how can we solve those? And so everything is really built around making that easier for the sleep expert. And then to the extent the customer is coming into the store, first visiting the website, preparing the customer for that store visit and educating them and building their confidence level in a category that they only buy from once once every eight years. Yeah. Wait, tell me a little, a little bit more about that. How do you prepare the customer for that transition from online to in person? Yeah. So we have what's called mattress matcher, which is a really in the back end of it is very sophisticated taking the customer's self

determined sleep disruptors. So is it back pain? Is it snoring? Do I have sleep apnea? Like what are my sleep disruptors? And then what are my sleep preferences? And there's other factors around when do I need it? What's my budget? Those things. But that narrows down what is one of the largest selections of mattresses in specialty retail to just a few for you to consider and pre-shop and really do some research on, go to the store, work with a sleep expert, get some additional context, and then actually try them. I mean, most people, while buying mattresses online, Sight Unseen certainly has been growing, the vast majority people, especially at our price points, people want to try and they want to feel comfortable

on it. And so that's the online sort of preparing for the store visit. And, you know, the data that we collect from the customer online transitions to the store. So the sleep expert can basically help you pick up from where you left off and now start to bring the digital experience to the physical experience and you start to feel the difference of the product. Yeah, completely. It's so interesting. I can't think of that many examples of businesses where that is the case, where you're online doing in-depth research, educating yourself, and then going into a store and having a continuous experience where you're picking up where you're leaving off. We think about the car industry very similarly, right? Or you might go to the Tesla dealership to do the test drive. You might do some preliminary research. And so it's big ticket, high consideration, low frequency type of model. And it is a very different experience than buying apparel online or ordering lunch online. And so we have to be really considerate about it, not only in both phases, in the pre-store visit and in the store visit. And those, quite frankly, used to be very siloed experiences. And so what we have been

focusing on is bridging them. And you got to bridge that with data and with capability. And those things are enablers. Those are, both of those are technology based, but it's all driven around where the customer is in their journey. What level of confidence do they have when they start their journey? What are their expectations when they've invested that time doing some research and they're going to the store? It's amazing how much trust the customers have once they actually work with a sleep expert. And the experience is disarming. A lot of people go in thinking it's going to be an intimidating experience. It's a category that they don't understand. They don't buy very often. Is it going to be like a used car sales experience? And it's the absolute opposite.

And so they become really a sleep wellness consultant to the surprise of our customers because they're not expecting that. Tell me a little bit more about this bridge from the digital to the physical. And you had mentioned picking up where they left off, allowing the customer if they've done X amount of research, how is that knowledge then transferred to your sleep experts or how can they actually create that seamless experience? I'm so curious about that piece. We try to get customers to do the online version of the mattress matcher because those are the core inputs to what we believe will become ultimately the best recommendation for their sleep solution. And I keep saying sleep solution because we don't just view it as a mattress. Like your whole sleep solution includes the pillow that represents about 25% of

your sleep surface. It impacts your sleep health. So that information is really important. And a lot of people, a lot of customers fill that out online and that can get directly sent to your sleep expert. And that year that sleep expert then gets assigned to you. If, and if you want to go into the store, you can, you know, you can pick up where you left off and you can be directed to, to where those beds are, try them, talk to them, understand some of the alternatives. It starts with that experience online, creating an account, that account seamlessly transitioning to our stores.

The customer identifies themselves very simply with a phone number. The information and profile comes up. The sleep expert can see what you did online, whatever you've chosen to provide as permissions, and then seamlessly takes you through the store experience. And you can choose if you choose to buy it, you can choose to buy in the store. The sleep expert can send you a link to what you looked at or tried with notes or and you can check out back home with a link. So we really make that experience. It's in their hands on how they want to shop with us. And it also sounds like it's kind of amazing for your sleep experts to have information

on the person who they're supporting ahead of time. You know, it's they don't have to ask all those questions or do all that digging. They can really just like jump into providing value initially from the sounds of it, which is great. It's really important for the customer to feel like this is, it is seamless. It is connected. I don't have to start over and I'm going to, I'm going to build on the experience and the investment I've already put in versus start over. That's how we're determining what success looks like. And we asked the customer about that,

where are the friction points? And those are the ones we're constantly working to solve. Yeah. Nobody likes to say the same thing twice. Nobody likes to have to repeat themselves or go through the same process over and over again. I think that's something that we can see across all industries, whether it is B2B SaaS or retail apparel situations, it really applies all over across the board. We want the most seamless experience. And I think the consumer expectations around that are becoming higher and higher because we get to experience things like what you're describing at Mattress Firm. If we see it in one place, we're going to expect it elsewhere. And so I really see it as having a competitive edge to think about what

are those friction points for a customer and how do we reduce them no matter the circumstances. To build on that, we think about it pre-purchase, of course, during the purchase and then post purchase. And so what I think is also very unique about Mattress Firm is because the sleep expert customer relationship is truly one-on-one. I mean, most stores only have two or three sleep experts. So it's a very client sleep expert one-to-one relationship. So much so that we actually have decentralized CRM, which, you know, most retailers think about CRM as really data-driven from corporate, personalizing those emails, but not really. This is follow-up is one-to-one. And it's the customer giving that sleep expert that trust and permission to say, yeah, you can text me. Yes, please call me.

Yes, I'm in market shopping. I'm not ready to buy today, but I might need some advice tomorrow. And so we really, what we, what I think is fascinating is we actually have some rules in place that, that creates like air traffic control, like marketing, central marketing stops communicating with a customer. Once we've flagged that the sleep expert is, you know, is in like has ownership of that patient path for a set amount of time so that we're being considered about the customer not getting bombarded by less contextual messages. It might be data relevant, but less contextual than their one-to-one relationship. So in many ways, we're taking sort of the best of classic retail where it was just human to human and having digital be a servant to that experience. Oh my gosh. Bells are ringing in my head because you're saying things that I just so fundamentally agree with. This concept of pausing marketing emails so that you can allow that human to human relationship

to be the focal point is, it's harder than it looks for one thing because marketing's like, we gotta do our thing. And it's complicated wires to run for sure, but really focusing on what is good about the retail experience. People like talking to humans. We don't only want to talk to computers. And so I'm curious to get your thoughts on what do you feel is something that should almost be considered sacred in the retail space? Like what are those attributes of that human to human relationship that you're really wanting to bring in and preserve as you advance digitally? the amount of humans in the interfacing with customers. And I saw some of it happening in the

restaurant industry before and in retail. So automation is a productivity play, but it's not a customer experience play. And so I think the human connection is the way we think about it is invest heavily in our sleep experts, training, compensation, experience, and that translates into a better customer experience. And their commitment, you know, their, their compensation model is also commission based. So they're incented to serve the customer and build those relationships because that's how, that's how they earn, you know, earn their compensation. And so they only earn when they succeed in helping the customer ultimately sleep better. That's, that's really the highest level of, of how we evaluate success. And it's not just the mattress sale. It is, are they actually sleeping better?

And we check in with our customers and ask that question. And we have actually tools and, and digital technologies and properties that allow if the customer wants to track their sleep with us on our sleep.com app, that that can be part of their sleep coaching relationship with their sleep expert if they want. So it goes well beyond the transaction. And I think that is often retail in many, in many, in many articles. Yeah. No, we're, we're trading efficiency for experience so often.

And I think that's the thing that personally I'm the most concerned about with AI. I think AI can bring so many benefits and actually free up time for us to spend more time thinking about that human experience. But I see a lot of companies, a lot of clients of mine starting to get caught up in the, oh, well, we can just be more efficient. We can just remove that one-to-one relationship. We don't need to have phone calls or we don't need to have two people speaking to each other. The tech will solve it. And I think it's such a dangerous game to play. What are your thoughts? So I totally agree if it's meant to replace. Where I see the value, you mentioned AI, where I see the value is, can AI help us identify a more urgent customer feedback theme? Can AI help us determine which customer really needs

that follow-up sooner because of whatever signals we're ingesting. So as an aid to humans, as opposed to replacement to humans, is really the filter and lens that we're thinking about. And again, having that technology be the servant rather than the leader. 100%. I recently heard the analogy that AI is like having a thousand interns, but you're never going to give, you know, your customer relationship to the intern. You might have them listen in and help you and do some research and assist in the process, but you're not just going to let them

manage your customer relationship. And I think that's really what we need to think about in this context of how can we use it as an aid? How can we use it alongside us to do what is most important better? Yeah. And there's, there's definitely some automation, you know, that AI helps with, you know, for in, in our case, rescheduling a delivery. Those are things that quite frankly, you know, if the customer wants to talk to a human about that, we make that super easy. But our intent is actually in our

research and our, you know, all of that tells us the customer just, they have to take their kid to soccer practice. That 2 p.m. delivery doesn't work anymore. They need to move it to four. Let's make that super easy and not have to wait and, you know, wait for a human to do that. And so like those are choices, but those choices still ladder up to that's what the customer wants. And this is where technology can help enable that or make that more frictionless. When you're using Salesforce to tackle your company's most important goals, failure is simply not an option. That's why their most highly skilled advisors, Salesforce CTOs, are available to help you succeed with expert guidance and implementation support at every step of the way.

Learn more about Salesforce CTOs at sfdc.co slash professional services. Completely. And I also just want to caveat what I've said to everybody who's listening. I think that AI can 100% communicate with your customers. In this situation that you just shared, I don't want to talk to a human. I just want it to be done. And there's many circumstances where that is the case. But when we do want to talk to a human or when we do need information that goes beyond what AI can really deliver, Or maybe we just actually want a human to say it instead of a computer. All those cases are potentially true. And it's our job as CX

leaders to really define when is it best to be a human and when do we not need that human in the loop. And I think that preferences are also ever-changing from a consumer standpoint. I think we'll probably see more and more appetite for a digital solution versus a human solution. But I think we really need to be listening to our customers to understand what is that appetite and where are we enabling a stronger relationship with the use of AI? And where are we maybe taking away from our relationship through the use of AI? And relationship is built on trust. And so being really transparent about what's powering the experience right now. There's so much emphasis right now on the human voice and the natural voice, which I think is great because it is a

better customer experience. But tell me that it is. Don't try to pull one over on me to say, well, I think I'm talking to a human or I assumed I was talking with a human. Just be honest about that. It's okay. I think transparency always wins. It shouldn't be a question and the experience can be better, but let's just be honest that it isn't a human. 1,000%. So you've been in this role, tell me if I'm wrong, about a year now, more or less? Yeah, just under. What are some of the big learnings that you've had

in moving into this type of retail environment and working on these types of problems? The biggest learning has been the role of the retail associate and how sensible they are to the customer experience and to our business model. Our sleep experts, our entire business revolves around our sleep experts. Of course, the product and the assortment, no one comes in without that. But the sleep expert and the role of the, the, the retail environment in our business is so important. The role of digital in helping make that a better experience, both for the customer pre

store visit and the sleep expert through the tools and the data that we enable and, and empower them with really, really important. For example, we have, we have built our own internal sleep expert facing app, which includes everything from a store version of mattress matcher, which is the, is the experience that the customer has when they walk into the store, they go through this diagnostics. It also includes lead management and that customer management. These are tools that we didn't go buy off the shelf or buy from existing solution. These were built in-house, not because we are opposed to external solutions, but these are really, really customized for our business, for our retail sleep expert, and for our customers'

needs. And that has been a surprise how intentional those feature sets are, how intentional the experience flow and journeys are, how data-driven they are. If you can imagine across 2,400 stores, 6,000 sleep experts, you have different levels of adoption of these capabilities. And what has been super impressive for me to see as I've come in is we have data showing usage and adoption of these tools drives conversion, higher NPS scores, and higher AOVs. And so when you have that data, it's really, really compelling for the organization versus just like, this is some executive's idea that we're now pushing down and you have to use it because that's the SOP.

We actually don't require. What we require of our sleep experts is have a great place to shop for your customers, have a great place to work for your fellow sleep experts, and meet or beat your financial expectations. If you don't need to use all of the tools all the time, we don't hold you to an adoption rate. But if you're missing your financial expectations or your NPS scores are coming down, you bet we're going to have a conversation saying, look at the rest of the country or look at the most successful sleep experts and the highest NPS scores and look at that. And so that data to have for the actual store operations and store experience has been really, I've not seen it

anywhere else in my retail background to have that clarity around the power and the impact of these digital capabilities that we empower our sleep experts with. It sounds like you've really invested in making sure that your sleep experts have the technology they need to do their jobs well. And it is something that I know in my experience, building and leading teams in a number of different companies, it's always been a struggle. We're investing so much on our customers' platform, but we are here without the tools we need to really fulfill on the expectations that we're creating for our customers. And I just think it's such an important point that you're highlighting here in any scenario, whether they are retail experts who are holding so much

of the sale or not, I think it's just so, so valuable to really support our teams in giving them the tools, technology, information, data that they need in order to get the job done and to do it well and feel good about it at the same time. The mindset that we're really creating is the sleep expert is at the same level as our customer in terms of who we design for, who we build for, and who we serve. And once you sort of align the team on that, it's not a trade-off of like customer or internal retail associate. It's just two different customers, but they're at the same level. And that's not what I've typically seen in retail. And again, I think it has a lot to do with our model and the role of our sleep expert in our

whole business and the whole experience. But once you get past that internal versus external and you put them on the same pedestal at the same level, then you can deploy the same types of resources and product teams and CX teams to solve those problems, you know, with level of energy. It's so important. I am a couple of years back, I did the Ritz-Carlton's customer service training. And the first thing that they teach you is that every employee at the Ritz Carlton, every single person, no matter how up they are in the organization or not, they are ladies and gentlemen serving ladies and gentlemen. And they are considered with that high regard in their role, just as you would consider a very wealthy, high profile customer that's coming in

to stay at the Ritz. And it's something that's just stood out to me. And as I host the show and get to speak to many different leaders, it's one of the key attributes that I see in a really strong customer centric company is that the employees are also equal to those customers and there's equal energy put into the experience of those two customers, whether they are internal or external to the business. So I wanted to circle back a little bit to this bridge we're talking about, that you are leading the digital into the physical and how these two things play together. And I wanted to ask you, what challenges have you faced in really creating that seamless experience from online to offline, back to online and so forth?

The biggest challenge is really rethinking the digital experience from the customer's perspective. And so I say that because when I look at our site, and we're evolving it very, very quickly, when I look at our site, it has been a very traditional e-commerce experience. It's almost the same way you would buy a sweater at Nordstrom, where we put 250 white squares in front of you and expect you as the customer who only buys eight times, you know, once every eight years, a high ticket, highly considered product that honestly is very difficult to establish different, you know, value cues against. We sort of have a traditional e-commerce experience in digital or we're moving away from that. And I think when you're shopping for a sweater at Nordstrom's, you have

value cues. You know cashmere is going to be, should be more expensive than a synthetic. You know a cardigan should cost more than a vest. And you know a polo sweater is going to cost more than a vest. And, you know, you know, a polo sweater is going to cost more than a private label sweater. Generally, like those are those are value cues. Right. And we have a traditional e-commerce site or had one which is around like, here's all the products. And, you know, good luck you with questions and that you don't feel alone in a complex journey. And so overcoming some of our technology, legacy technology and systems and capabilities to transform the experience, it's quite a lift. And we're in progress of doing that. And so I'm super excited about

the transformation that's to come a little bit later this year. But there's a lift there. There's entrenched technology, there's technical debt that every retailer has. And those things are barriers and stand in the way of moving even faster than where we are today. You kind of have to unlearn or take apart the machine to then rebuild the machine, which is harder than just building the machine from scratch. And having the courage to change and to overhaul. Yeah. I think, you know, once it's clear to everybody the why, then really the challenge is more just the actual how and the timing.

Leapfrogging yourself is really, really hard and important to do. And never just accepting what you have as what you need. And always reconciling where you should be versus where you are. And it's okay to be frustrated with that cap and, you know, turn that frustration into action and move quickly to solve for that. How do you bring your team, the broader team, along for the ride in that? Because with any large change means that everybody needs to get used to that change, which is not an easy task. And so there's one, the technical component of it, but what about the human component of that? How are you approaching that element of the change?

So I think about what are our objectives and, you know, we start with our, our noble purpose is actually to help people sleep well so that they can live well. So if you start there and then you reconcile to what are our objectives, right? So our objectives are around, of course, traditional retail objectives, sales, and all of that, all the financials, customer experience. All of a sudden, you're not operating around as a functional leader. You're operating around like a steward of the business. And so some of the changes that we're introducing really are rooted in not a functional goal. Yes, we're in charge of developing a lot of these strategies and ultimately implementing them and changing both the sleep expert experience and the customer

experience. But it's a lot easier to do when you have alignment with your peers, that all of these changes that you're driving, not only are important for our collective goals, but that they and their teams are going to be critical partners to making that happen. And so I always try to look at it and not operate as a functional leader, but as a steward of the business with partners and peers. Because as long as you have that mindset, it's not about us versus the world or trying to force change or drive change. It's really shaping and influencing change and bringing partners on board and, and making sure that their perspectives and their teams and their experience and their inputs are a part of that change. That makes it a lot easier because, and you, and you get a better result because it's more informed and it's less of a closed loop and so i think that's just my my general approach

bring in everyone along for the ride we need to we need to be working as a team that sounds super easy like yeah why wouldn't that make sense why wouldn't you just do that um yeah harder harder in practice but um that's where you start because if you don't have that alignment and you don't have that partnership and we're not all agreeing around the same outcomes for our sleep experts or for our customers, it's sideways. And it just takes longer and it's harder and slower. And yeah, you got to get everyone aligned. Even if you keep going, then the definition of success isn't, isn't clear if you're not aligned up front. And so you could be claiming that, you know, we've hit our objectives with this, but everyone's not there. And so really important to

get that aligned up front. I think planning and just planning is the key thing there for, for me in my experience is making sure that we have those really clear goals. We have everyone that's been listened to. We can take all the insights that we have. We know what people care about. And we can really create a path that includes all of those thoughts while also has a very clear direction that everyone is aware of and aligned with. Sometimes we have to go slow to go fast in these types of cases. And you have to check your biases, right? You have to have that feedback loop, the qualitative insights, the feedback from the field in our case,

the data-driven feedback around testing and just overall results, like you have to constantly be auditing your biases or your, you know, your perceptions. We're all well-intentioned, but the feedback loop, sometimes you have to, you have to just be more intentional about opening up and, you know, having that constantly inform how you're, you know, how you're thinking about those, those changes that you're trying to implement, how you're thinking about those, those changes that you're trying to implement. So I would be remiss if we didn't talk a little bit about sleep, something that's incredibly important for all of us. And you guys are obviously the experts. And so I wanted to touch a little bit on one, your partnership with sleep score labs and what that means for your business. And then we're going to get into a little bit more

sleepy stuff just to, so we can all know how we can improve our own sleep. Well, I'll share a personal story. It's actually, you know, sleep health and sleep wellness is very personal to me. And it's actually one of the big reasons I decided to join Mattress Firm. I have sleep apnea. I struggle with sleep in general. And a lot of retailers have great intentions and noble purposes. And I shared with you what ours is around helping people sleep well so that they can live well. But actually with our size and scale and over 30% share of the market, we actually can impact America's sleep. And that is the most exciting thing about it because we have the scale to actually influence people's sleep health and wellness. And if you look at Google trends and

you look at the four pillars of wellness, so nutrition, activity, fitness, and sleep, sleep by far exceeds those search trends. It's just what people are spending more and more time realizing that sleep is increasingly an important part of their health, and it's not a weakness to sleep. And so- Newsflash. Yeah. No, I know. But years ago, not too long ago, it was like a badge of courage to say, Oh, I don't need, you know, I-reviewed scientific academic data from tests around different sleep solutions. So it might be in our case where they're testing mattresses, one mattress versus another, or a combination of sleepow Loft, Pillow Content, and Sleep Surface. Very, very sophisticated testing and data.

And they combine that with the over a million users of the Sleep.com app, which is Mattress Firm's app. We own Sleep.com. We own the Sleep.com app through our relationship with Sleep Score Labs. So they're really the sleep data and insight provider that helps us really translate that knowledge to helping our customers understand better, you know, not only better sleep habits, but the products and the interventions that they can start to employ to sleep better. And we also want to provide that for our sleep experts so that as they're working with the customers in the store,

they can bring that context into that decision. That's a massive differentiator for Mattress Firm. There is no other source of that sleep expertise that brings that data, those insights, and the products and services together in the way that we do. And I think we're only getting started. I mean, it's so interesting that we can be tracking these things now that we can actually see, okay, I don't feel super sharp today and I can go and see how my sleep was last night.

And I mean, then the next level of it, which is what you're describing is like, which mattress is best for me individually to get that great sleep? What pillow do I need? What things do I need in order to actually deliver that sleep easier and better for my unique needs? I think it's so exciting that we're getting to this place in technology where we can have access to that information. And it makes so much sense that this is where you guys are going. Yeah. And I think most people don't connect the two, right? Like most people think about the mattress as just sort of that utility. It's either, I either want soft or firm or medium, or I just need to replace it when I start to see it

sag. Like it's so much more than that. And the technology, while not software driven technology, the technology in the fabric, in the, in the textiles and the fabrications and in the production, you know, we have beds that are for side sleepers. We have beds for people with sleep apnea. Then you introduce the idea of an adjustable base that can connect with your sleep app that can detect you snoring and it moves you through the night so that your airwaves open and you don't snore and you don't wake up your partner. I mean, it is not your mattress buying experience from even 10 years ago or five years ago. And software is not the dominant player, although there are some beds that are starting to incorporate those sensor technologies

in them. It's still pretty niche, but it is how technology and the sleep data and the coaching that can come along with that starting to now integrate with the foundations, the bases, and, and really help you sleep better. I mean, at the end of the day, what success looks like for us is are you sleeping better, longer, and, you know, better quality, and we can help you measure that. And no other retailer can put all of that together with the, you know, data, with the rigor around it. And so, like I said, I think we're just getting started with our capabilities here. That's amazing. So we're almost at time, but I'm wondering if you can spend just

one minute, two minutes giving us a masterclass in sleep. A quick one. What do we need to be thinking about to get the best possible sleep? Number one is consistency. Trying to go to bed at the same time, waking up at the same time, at the same time, even if it's the weekend. Number two, super dark room, like get invest in those, in those blackout shades, keep the room temperature at 65 degrees and make sure your mattress and your pillow all are working against your sleep disruptors and for your sleep preferences. And if you're, you know, if you're snoring a lot, get that sleep test, make sure you don't have sleep apnea. About a third of Americans have sleep apnea and most are diagnosed. And so that's a real fast,

I wouldn't call it a masterclass. I'd call it key tips. Yeah. You know, I am someone who I thought I can sleep anywhere. I don't need a great mattress or a great pillow. Like I'm, I'm good. And then I invested in a good mattress and a good pillow. And I have to say, my life is totally changed and I never want to sleep anywhere other than my own bed because it's just a world of difference. I just bought a new mattress, uh, where my wife and I did. And for me, my issue is, is, um, I need a cool, I need something cooler. Cause I'm, it's like an oven for me. And now there's beds you can, that are, that deliver 10 degree cooler than your room temperature. I was so like, uh, there's no way I was very skeptical and it delivers and it has

made a huge difference for me. And so like the technology around the construction, the fabrications actually deliver that type of game changing night of sleep for me. It just adds even more optimism to where I think this industry is going. Cool. Well, I am so excited to see where everything heads for you and for Mattress Firm. I'm definitely following along and I'm going to go and chat with some of your experts. I feel like there's a lot of knowledge within your space that I would love to have. I have one last question for you that we ask every single guest. What is one piece of advice that every customer experience leader should hear? Don't lead with technology. It's so tempting to do it. It's so tempting to find that technology and go look for a problem to go solve or a solution to go towards that technology.

Don't lose focus on what the customer needs and why they value you and how you can deliver more value to them. And then bring in technology and process and everything else to support that. I really am passionate about the fundamentals and I can't think of anything more fundamental than that advice. It's so good. Thank you so much, George. It's been such a pleasure to have you on the show. And for all of our listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, please let us know with a quick subscribe or rating wherever you're listening to your podcast. We so, so appreciate your support. Well, I hope you have a wonderful day, George. And to everyone listening, you as well. Great to be with you, Lauren. Thank you. You are a business leader with vision. You've seen the

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