EXPLORE WITH US - 14 Year Old Killer Thinks He's Going Home: The Case of Eldon Samuel III

Episode Date: November 13, 2023

14 year old killer thinks he's GOING HOME...The following podcast episode is not legal advice. Do not rely on the information in this presentation without speaking to a licensed attorney.No one discussed in these videos has been formally diagnosed by EWU and our psychological analysis is based on the general behaviors and traits of the people discussed.

In the evening hours of March 24, 2014, police responded to a shooting at a residence in Cortelaine, Idaho. Little did they know they were walking into the home of someone so obsessed with zombies that they not only believed they were real, but he and his son were actually preparing for the zombie apocalypse. What police found inside the house was more horrific and bizarre than they could have ever imagined. Blood trails. Along this hallway leads into this room.

There's a lot of weird. Okay. Mug says this is my zombie killing mug. What is it? The crime did not have to do anything in control. Do you know that's a bathroom degree? Do you believe in the zombie apocalypse? Do you believe that's going to happen?

Probably. When police arrived at the house, they discovered that the 911 call reporting the shooting had been placed by the 14-year-old. They found him waiting outside. You get your phone. Got some blood on him right there? Could we figure out what's going on, bud? Okay. As police will soon find out, the story about how he came to be covered in blood is even more twisted than they ever could have imagined.

For everyone's safety, deputies still need to secure the house and verify if there's anyone else inside the home. What they discover is nothing short of haunting. The following footage has never been seen before. I've got blood footprints on the ground in there. Before we go in, just a nap. Coraland, police, come out with your hands up. I got sight in the kitchen. Clear all the way to the window.

He's had the gun's on the counter. It's right there, on the left. Okay. What do you guys? Copy. Copy. I see this window. Copy.

I'm going behind you. Somebody. There me. Yep. Okay. I'll hold this on the right if you go through the left. All right, please. Come out with your hands up.

Clear. Clear. I'm going to pull this blanket. You guys get a visual in this guy, okay? Show your hands. Got it. Got it. Got one male.

Looks deceased. There's a second. A second. Juvenile. Okay. Appears to be deceased as well. I'm going to pie in. Okay.

Got it. I don't see anybody in the bathroom, there's still a shower back there. Okay. Okay. I'm going to go through and clear. I can go in through and clear if you want. I'm going to go through and clear the bathroom. Okay.

Go ahead. Bathroom's clear. And leg. I got door here. I'm going to check. You go on. Court. Lake please come out.

Hands up. Mall room, clear. Absolutely. I'm going to check for Pulse and the dad. Okay. Go ahead. Still warm. I can't feel it.

Yeah, checking wrist. I can't tell it's my heart racing or his. I'll grab you one. Okay, come bring him in. Bring them in. I got a slight, slight pulse. I can't tell if it's mine or his. Are you sure?

No. I can't tell if it's my heart racing or his. It's slight, though, whatever it is. You know okay back there? Hmm? You're okay? Me? Yeah.

Sure. Yeah, sure. The cuff on my hand. It's kind of hurt for it. Okay. You try and scoot your butt board just a little bit and it gets your hand a little bit more room? It appears that there's no one else in the house, save for not one, but two bodies they find in one of the bedrooms. Both are deceased, and it becomes apparent rather quickly that what happened here is much more complicated than a shooting. A variety of weapons are found strewn about the house and blood snakes its way through the hallway. the living room, bathroom, and bedrooms.

It looks like he shot his dad. Even more disturbing, the juvenile found dead looks to have been the target of a large machete found on the kitchen floor. Outside, deputies prepare to take the surviving boy for questioning. We're going to go right this way, pal. Okay.

I don't know if he's been searched or anything, so. Okay. Just face the dial 911 there, spread your feet. Before we put him in, I want to take photos of him. Yep. Just stay there, bud. What's this in your pocket? Cheat.

Keys to what? Locker at school. The locker at school? Am I at locker at my school. What's said your name's Elvin? Elvin with an E. Right thing's no? Yeah.

Okay. I want to grab my camera. Go ahead and open your hands for me. All right. All right. All right. Sorry, fine. I don't take the words on.

Yeah, there was. Let's go ahead and switch out his cuffs. You want to go behind? the car right there that'll block us well i'm gonna switch out his cuffs just stay where you are i tell you to move this one you gotta take off the house i didn't tell you to move though okay i'll tell you to do something before you do it all right elvin i want you to look at that dial nine one one put moving around stop moving stop moving do you understand what i mean by stop moving okay stop moving okay elvin we're gonna get in the back of this okay go ahead turn around sit slide

All right, I'll meet you over there. The crime scene has piqued the interest of passers-by and neighbors who police start to gather information from. So explain to me the circumstances of this being a St. Vincent's home. Is this like a halfway house? I'm the director. Okay, so what's going on this? This is an emergency shelter for families. Emergency shelter, okay.

Yeah, we just reopened it. He was renting it. And who's he? Eldon Samuels. Okay. He's the father. And how many kids did he have in the home? Two.

Okay. Do you know their names? Yes. Jonathan and Eldon. His one son is autistic. Which one's that? Jonathan. Jonathan's autistic.

The boy, now in the back of the police cruiser, is Eldon Samuel III. The two dead males inside are his father, Eldon Samuel Jr., who we will refer to as junior, and Eldon's younger brother, Jonathan Samuel. The family moved to Cordo Lane from California the summer prior and lived in the emergency shelter home. Hey, Elvin? Yeah. Is anybody in that trailer? No.

Nothing. No? Probably not. Your dad was in there earlier. Do you know what he was doing? No. No? I don't really think there's anybody in there.

How come the heater's on in there? The heater's not in there? In the trailer? Uh-huh. Someone's probably in it. Okay. All right, stay put until I tell you to step out. That's such a rush.

What's that? Just a rush. How old's your brother? I don't know. He doesn't know. 13, it sounds like from well home. Though Eldon is apparently unsure, his younger brother, Jonathan, is in fact 13. All right, just standing right here for a minute.

Your last name, Samuels? Mm-hmm. Last name is Samuels? Yeah. I'm thinking changing. Yeah. What's your mental name? Gail.

Gail? G-A. G-A-B-G-A-B-A-D. Yeah. What's your name? Cohen. Cullen. It's called, man.

Thanks. How old are you? Okay. Detectives photograph Eldon and take his bloodstained clothes for evidence. You still do it on there? Yeah, it's nervous. Yeah. Are you nervous to go?

Because the cops are here? No. Okay. We can talk about that. We can all later. Eldon is questioned about the incident that has just occurred in this never-before-seen interrogation footage. The following footage has been analyzed by a qualified team, including a licensed professional counselor and a licensed attorney. Now, Eldon, just relax.

I'm just hearing back to look, okay? So you can take a breath. Like what I do if I ask that. adjust my leg or take a breath, that's okay. You don't live far from the school, do you? Because I've seen him at school. Do you remember talking about me at school? What did we talk about?

The handcuffs. The handcuffs, that's right. What did we decide about the handcuffs? After the detectives make out uncomfortable, they begin their interview, starting with how he ended up shooting his father. He says, having these rights in mind, do you wish to talk to us right now? Do you want to talk to me and my boss about what's going on tonight?

right now? Yeah, that's why we're here. Do you want to talk? Right, where will it say? Just right here. We'll just chat right here. No, we're just in the chat. No, we're not going to keep you all right, but just chat right now.

So this is just, because you have the right to talk to me. Like I said, I have the right to talk to you. So this is just saying, have these rights of mine. Do you want to talk to me right now? Right now? Yeah. Like how much time is it? It will take long.

30 minutes to an hour of tops and what I imagine. I got stuff to do, so you want to chat? Sure, okay. The officer establishes that he and Eldon already know each other. He may have been brought into the interrogation specifically for this reason, as Eldon may feel more comfortable having someone he knows in the room. However, if they have a trusting relationship beforehand, then the suspect may not really understand the adversarial nature of police questioning.

You'll notice that the officer he knows is leaned into his personal space. but only while discussing Eldon's rights and his willingness to speak with officers. Invading someone's personal space is a common tactic in police interrogations as it puts pressure on the other person. In the state of Idaho, police are generally free to interrogate minors without any limitations, beyond constitutional provisions that would equally apply to adults in a similar situation. The minor does not have to have someone present to represent their interests prior to questioning, until and unless the minor specifically makes a request for counsel or the presence of a parent or guardian.

In that case, an interrogation would have to stop upon the request. However, there are a number of differences for a minor brought into the juvenile system. For example, before a minor may admit to an allegation in court, the presiding judge will have to make a determination as to whether or not the admission is allowed at all. So do you know why you're in the interview room with us today? Yeah, okay? Why is that? You murder him? Okay. So explain to me what happened. What do you need, but my dad? He was on his medication, okay?

Okay, okay? So, you've done it before. He got married to baby. Remember? I wanted to do some of him, but I couldn't. Did his baby. Next time, did that he did that. He used it out. Outside, just his shooting guns out there, making there zombies. And suddenly go back inside. That's what your dad? Yeah. Then you told him to go back inside?

Okay. As Eldon begins his story about his dad shooting at zombies outside, he rubs his forehead and engages in more eye-blocking, all which are anxiety responses. However, when he gets to the part of the story about being told to go back inside, he makes very intense eye contact, which is a shift in his behavior so far. He may be watching the officer's reactions to his story closely to see if they're believing him. He went back at something because he thinks it was not like a possible and told him he told me to get out. He told me to get out. He repeats, he told me to get out three times, which may be him trying to solidify that part of the story.

So I didn't know my dad said what he just started walking towards me. He hit me and had the gun out, 45. Okay. He hit me again. That shot. So who had the 45? You had it? Where did you get?

So my dad's, your dad's, where does he? keep it. On the couch, he had it out. Okay. Elden is usually voted. Let's just back up this little bit, then we'll get some more details when your dad hit you, because you were arguing you said he took medications or you did? He said he took medications. Eldon is drinking a lot of water here, along with sniffing and fidgeting. It's safe to say he is highly anxious. The fighter flight response can lead to dry mouth and an engorgement of the nose, which causes itchiness and the need for more oxygen. This would explain the frequent sniffing. All of this is a red flag for markedly heightened anxiety. While he should be a bit anxious in the police station, he and one of the officers

seemed to already have a rapport, so the fact that his anxiety is this high is likely throwing off serious red flags for the interrogators. Do you get you because he sent you before? Is that what you said? He sent you before? He sent me before? Hit. Hit you strike you? Okay, hey, hear me. Four. Okay. Was that tonight?

Yeah. The first time he says he's hit me before seems to be a question to clarify what the officer is saying. But the second still seems to have an upward inflection in his tone, which can indicate uncertainty about this allegation of his dad hitting him before. Eldon has also been trying to take time to think about his answer. It's unlikely he didn't actually hear the officer. He's just getting him to repeat questions, so he has time to think about the right answer. How many hit you? You just, you know, it was hard with the open-hand, close-pits,

it's close-fits, or any hit you? Like, no, I don't remember. You can show me, when it's dark. So, like, I know, where did you feel? I don't know. Just somewhere. What was it here? On your left side?

Yeah, but it's dark. Okay. Eldon seems to be struggling to find where his dad hit him. Claiming he hit him hard makes it sound as though it may have left a bruise or soreness. but he's basically pointing to all of his left upper body. This is another red flag. A truthful individual would have an accurate place to point to. He's also been engaging in a lot of lip compression movements,

which once again indicates he's feeling stressed and nervous. He doesn't seem to have thought this story through at all. This isn't surprising since he's a very young adolescent. However, it's also noteworthy that Eldon isn't as intimidated as most children would be in this situation. lying to two detectives in an interrogation room is certainly a bold move. This demonstrates that Eldon may not fear authority like the typical kid would. One of the features of children and teens with serious behavioral issues is a lack of respect for authority.

It's chasing me to my room. Then I had to go down and hit me, kid, and just pulled the trigger and did he say anything? Okay? So, well, no. Just saying you killed me. So you pulled the trigger? Yes. Then you got the gun?

Yeah. Okay. How many times did you pull the trigger? Once that one time. Okay. It just shot three times. I had it three times. Then what happened?

No. It's all right. We're doing good. I know it's a tough deal we're talking about. Eldon's claim that his father was outside shooting seems to be corroborated by neighbors who heard a gunshot earlier in the evening. That isn't all they had to say either. Some of the neighbors had a few interesting things to say about the strange family next door. Did you hear something?

A gunshot early sound like, maybe. Okay, just one? One single round. About how long ago? Hour ago, hour and a half ago? There's a lot of weird people. Okay, okay. And they just moved here, my understanding?

They've been here, six, five months, maybe, four months. How long have they been here? Okay. I've had my suspicion. There's been drugs coming out of there. Okay. I made complaints. I saw him stand out here today for about 40 minutes,

had a conversation with one of the gentlemen in here. Okay. Look completely coherent. I see I've never spoke a word to the guy. Kind of weird, but he keeps to himself, but he doesn't, I mean, like I said, I had my suspicions. There's been something going on. Right.

To that extent. When we came home, we just got out of the truck, didn't see. I mean, I don't remember seeing. He came out and he was. He was going to pace him around. That's right. Who was? The older gentleman with the dad.

And he came out and mess with the camp or two. When do you think how long before you, before? We got all about six. I'm just going to pacing around out there. I was just going to watch him. And then I saw him. Like, gosh, it just changed. He's just weird.

Because you, you wave to him? Like I say, he's never said a word to me, but you wave to him and he'll just stare at you. I mean, it's just always something. There's fights or drugs. I've been watching that guy do, I'm pretty sure he's been dealing something out of there for a while. I watch this guy coming out of his house every day. I work from home a lot. Today I work from home all day with this window open.

Right. I saw him have a, you know, he's kind of a weird guy. Just stay, he's kind of creepy. He doesn't ever send a word to us in six months ago. I wave. He doesn't, he just stare straight forward. right now. He just, he's chain smoke.

It's like you would never believe. Right. So it's like every five minutes he's on his deck and he just stares, just stares, or squats and just stares at you. And it's like you feel uncomfortable if you're in a fishbowl. So what's to deal with dad? I mean, you mentioned coming out. I mean, he's medical calls or something? Yeah, I don't, like I said, I don't know what happens, but when he first moved in about,

and he's been here about six months. The first couple months, it just seemed like every couple weeks, there was a handful of ambulances, cops out here, and they were bringing something. me out on a stretcher, you know, and like he was, you know, maybe he was sick or something, but it was, but it was just, then it became often, and I don't know if there was, like I said, I don't know if there was fighting going on, some, whatever those reasons were. And I'm not even positive, 100% if it was the dad every time. It might have been that older son or it might been the younger one. Notably, he uses the phrase, like I said frequently. This is something called

a referral statement, which is often used to bolster a statement. Though it's usually associated with someone lying, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's lying here, and instead could be an indication of how uncomfortable or upset he may be by the situation, which would be understandable. If you think of anything, don't hesitate to call, leave me a message. I'll get right back with you. Sounds good. So. Any idea? I don't want my kids to see this in the morning. She's freaked out really bad. I don't want my kids to see this.

If there was a life-saving efforts that needed to happen and would have happened, I mean, If there's something else going on, we have to wait. We want to make sure we do it right. So we will be here through the night. Back in the interrogation room, Eldon explains what happened next after he shot his father. He was crawling. He's crawling to John. To who?

To John. The brother's John? Is it John or Jonathan? Jim. You call him John now? Jonathan. So go ahead. I'm sorry.

I'm going to call him John. Sometimes. Okay. But he's drawn to us John. That's, um, so where was John or Jonathan? He was under the bed. Okay. Who's better?

Who's the bedroom? John's been true. So he has his all bedroom, and he was under the bed. Yeah. Okay. How do you know he was under the bed? You know what in there? So John to get out, you wouldn't get out.

Yeah. Yeah. Interestingly, Eldon has rubbed. the back of his neck here, which may be an unconscious attempt to bring down his heart rate, as rubbing the vagus nerve can slow an anxious heartbeat. Like him on the man of the room, dad was there. He was just, like, right there. I just wanted him out. They don't have a, in a church, I started facing apart the cushions, the house, sitting in the law, trying to grab it out. Like with your hands?

Yeah, okay. And what did he say to him? I'm going to get out. Okay, and what did he do? You just didn't want to go. Then what happened? That's all right. I can do it good.

But after that, he can't really remember. So he's not, he's about your size. I mean, he's not too small. And I know that he doesn't like, he's got some issues with space, some spatial issues. I know that he doesn't took me a while so he'd like me and talk to me.

So I was good with him. so I'm sure if he was upset or if you're yelling at him, I can see how he might act, but I don't know how he acted tonight, so I need you to tell me. The detectives propose an alternative theory here in the hopes that Eldon will admit to something, especially if they make it seem more acceptable. They seem to be saying that his brother may have acted out,

which would give Eldon some kind of excuse for what he did. Eldon knows he can claim his dad to him as an excuse, But explaining viciously murdering his brother is another story entirely. So you told me to get out. Yeah. Wanted to get out. Same. Was your dad still problem with him?

Yeah. Okay. That was before. Shot him. I tried from head. So he started a chronic going to get out. He was loaded the shotgun. Who was dad?

Okay. He had it loaded and everything. And he was just started. started pointing at John. Just trying to try and just shot him. So who shot? Your dad shot, John? Yeah.

He did? Was the shot guy? Yeah. Okay. How many times? I'll just start two times and two. You start two times? Yeah, okay.

Well, the time, though. Eldon has sounded a bit unsure throughout the interview so far, but here he sounds even more uncertain, and there's an upward inflection in his voice. As he goes to show two fingers, he can't quite get his body to cooperate, and it's a weak hand motion. He immediately returns back to self-soothing rubbing on his leg above his knee. Okay, what do you mean? What is it? To you, what does it sound like? He said you heard. It's like a boom, a pop, okay? Did I hear that again? Did you see it? No.

And you were all in John's room? Okay. And I'm sorry, man, it's that sometimes I'm a little slow, so I'm just kind of losing track from where everybody was. And so you're dead. You said that you shot him in the stomach one time. Early, didn't he crawled away. Okay, then he crawled away. Once again, Eldon covers his mouth after saying he crawled away. This part may not be a lie necessarily, but there could be something he's intentionally leaving out in this part of the story. And he crawled up to To John's right. So now I'm tracking with you. So if you don't want to pick up from right there

So your dad was shot in the belly And you crawled up to John's bedroom And where are you? I was going to go over here But where are you? We're in the house Because I'm not familiar with your house I was just standing there

Where? Like standing in the litter Okay, perfect, thank you. That's why I was missing. I didn't know. You know what? If I'm not there I'm not sure who's

Where and so your dad's crawling Yeah Then you had standing just watching him Yeah Like what do I do? What do? I don't know what to do Sure, it sounds like you paused

I got shut up Okay So when your dad was crawled to John Did he have the shotgun? Yeah Where did you get the shotgun? He's wearing about this We try to shoot me

but he's stuck. So he just pulled the trigger, and he just shot John in the leg. Did you see that? No. No. While rubbing his head, Eldon has started doing something odd with his feet. He brings his foot forward and tucks the toes under while clenching them.

It's almost like his feet are taking the place of his hands for anxiety displays, since he seems to be working at not using his hands too much. We don't get to see this often since most people's feet are usually covered, but feet can still indicate how people feel. We learn to lie with our words and to a certain extent with our face and hands as we're growing up. These are the tells we're used to looking for, but most people never focus on the feet. Additionally, it would be extremely difficult to concentrate on the right words, facial expressions, hand movements, and feet movements. That's just a huge cognitive load on an individual. How do you know, John shot in the leg?

Because she yelled out of the leg, okay, and saw the way outside. I couldn't hear it. I could still hear her screaming. John or your dad? How do you know it was John? Bruce. Daddy, I thought my dad, my dad, come down. stabbing.

You know? You can't remember. That's all right. It's better that, instead of trying to think what happened or making something up, it's always better to be honest. And that goes for you and able.

And so if you don't remember, it's okay to say, I don't remember. And we can work with that. We'll talk you through it. And so if you don't remember, you don't remember. You know what I mean? But at the same time, if you do remember,

you need to tell us that, okay? And I understand. And you just went through something pretty difficult, okay? I get that. But at the same time, it just happened, okay? So I'm hopeful that you'll remember exactly what happened. So we have a better understanding of what occurred, what led up to this, things like that. Okay?

So, because right now you're saying some things, and I kind of understand. but it feels like there's some pieces missing. Follow me? Okay? So let's make sure we fill in those blanks. So I think you said you went outside so you didn't have to hear anymore. Yeah. What did you want to hear?

All of it. I'll hear all of it. You want to hear a gunshot? You don't want to hear your brother screaming. Okay. So at what point do you go back inside now? I just walked in after. Showns went off.

A lot beside the house. Your dad killed your brother? Yeah. You just with that shotgun? Oh, yeah. I was shitting. Cool, shitting. So, you had a lot of things and stuff on.

And your dad did this even though he was shot? Yeah, he was shot. He probably thought it was to me. But John. John shot him. Because he felt that medication. When did you see your... dad do to Jonathan exactly what that was ready. What you saw? I don't see. He was just, he was just

having it. It's okay. Was Jonathan still alive when you took the Lechette for me, dad? I didn't know. I just saw what he did. Was he making a noise? No. John wasn't moving. He said, Eldon doesn't quite seem to grasp the grays. He said, Eldon doesn't quite seem to grasp the gravity of the situation and make some interesting requests. Whether this is done in pure naivity or because of something darker remains to be seen. So why do I don't live? We'll work on that, okay? Just hang tight.

Let's get you some water. We'll work on. That's a great question, all right? Can I go back to my house and get my stuff? We'll work on some other things, okay? We'll just chat for a while. What do you need from now? Do you sound like me now?

Yeah. Your ex-flop, Gt Ngu. And probably your gloves, not that I mentioned, is up. Yeah, that's my name. What GTF was there? It's a Gt NG5. It's a credit fund for that. It's a video game.

What about your mom? Where's your mom? California. She's in California right now? Yeah. Okay. That's the big of the theater. Yeah?

It's probably, I can get a hold there. Yeah. We'll make sure that we get a hold of your mom, though. What do you think? she's going to say about what happened tonight. Eldon's mother, Tina, still lives in California. She and Jr. separated after a tumultuous marriage marred by financial hardship, drug use, and alleged.

He did that things or who did it? Kind of been the things that he did or did you just hear things or do you know things? In addition to more mouth covering and facial rubbing here, he's got his foot up in a barrier position now, blocking both the detectives. My dad was trying to pass. Mo wanted to get out, so she opened the door, and Dad ran over. Oh, man. That doesn't sound good for anybody, since she had to go to the hospital.

It's one of those things. So there's a lot of things. Yeah, yeah. This is an indication that Eldon may have held an immense grudge against his father, for what his father allegedly did to his mother. Eldon began crying for what seemed like the first time in the interrogation when mentioning wanting to see his mother. Eldon would later tell a psychiatrist that he witnessed alleged to be perpetrated by his father against his mother. He claims that on one occasion, Jr. poured lighter fluid on his wife and threatened a lighter on fire.

In another instance, Eldon stated that Junior bound her with duct tape and held a gun to her head, before forcing Eldon to urinate on her. Anthony, Eldon's oldest brother and junior's son from a previous marriage, said that he knew his father could be violent when he was on drugs, but that he'd never abut him or his sisters. He claimed that his father had recently kicked the drug habit and moved to Idaho to get his life back on track and be a better father to his two younger brothers.

Anthony, as well as his grandfather Eldon Sr., alleged that Tina was the aggressor, not Junior. In 2012, Tina pleaded no contest to a charge of willful child cruelty and spent six months in a Stanislaus County jail. It's not clear whether or not the child in question was Eldon. At various points in their marriage, Tina and Jr. both filed restraining orders against the other for domestic violence. Do you see any anger issues with her?

Well, I used to, yeah. What do I mean used to? Well, he used to just, his ice would blow down stuff and he'd get really, really angry. Eldon Sr. crosses his arms here, which is likely a dislike response due to having to talk about his son's negative qualities. When was that? Oh, years ago. I'm actually with Tina. Because when they lived on a peach and Medesto, I helped him buy a window and splighting glass. door. Then when he moved over

on the east side so that I helped him replace two sliding glass Why is that? Because he said he couldn't afford it. No, but how did they get broken? Tina threw a lamp the first time through the door and the

second time she tried to push a chair through the door. And he did do these but you're thinking Tina did it? He told me Tina did it. I don't believe him. Well, yeah, in a way because she's have messed up lady. But your son isn't?

Well, I'm thinking now, yeah, maybe so. You're thinking maybe that? It's interesting here that he does a big hands-up response. At this point, he still believes that his son isn't responsible, though it looks like the officer introduces some doubt. Parents often want to believe the best about their children. They rarely want to admit their children might be the messed up one, or part of the problem.

It's much easier to blame others, after what has occurred, he now has to figure out why his grandson would do this. It's probably causing a lot of cognitive dissonance for him. The more he has to think about it, the less certain he's likely to become. You don't know for sure. You just what he taught you. Right, what he told me, I know, because I'm not, well, that's their life. So did you see him get angry with the kids?

I'm not in that way, no. I need your total honesty on this. I know you're doing quite. I mean maybe to talk about this. I'm trying to think of the time he didn't lose his temper. He appears really uncomfortable here and states, not that way, no. He's probably questioning himself about what signs he missed.

Notice that he shifts into a barrier position shortly afterwards as well. He's uncomfortable with having to face these facts because it doesn't fit with the picture he wants to have of his son. Well, he never hit those kids. front of it here. He didn't? No, but he would yell at him. What would he yell? How would he yell at? A real high voice. What do you ever cuss out? No, he didn't in front of me, but he might have been ever by themselves. Okay, so did you ever see him use physical? Um, no, not anything.

No, not in front of me. Not to say it wouldn't happen. But not, that's not to say it wouldn't happen, but not nobody else was around. It's to say that I never seen it, no. Okay. And what would he yell at, Johnny? No, he would yell at the other one, Elton. Despite the contrasting statements made by family members, a pediatrician would later testify to the neglect that Eldon and his brother faced

while living with their father. Eldon specifically was malnourished, had severe dental issues, and had many absences at school. school. Junior's alleged behavior was exacerbated by his prescription drug addiction. There were a number of medications collected from the house the night of the incident. Junior was prescribed several drugs for anxiety, sleep, and due to a workplace injury a few years before his death, muscle relaxers, and opiates. Junior's autopsy showed a plethora of medications in his system, most notably large amounts of the sleep medication Ambien.

According to Eldon, the medications also had a strange side effect. And detectives returned to something Eldon said earlier in his interview that struck them as odd. Why do you know he was all upset paranoid about zombies if he didn't say anything? He did a punishment, okay? But he didn't say anything about zombies. You just attribute him taking that medication as to that's what he thinks. No? Did he say anything about zombies tonight?

Yeah. What did he say? He said that there might be zombies outside and stuff. Did you believe him? No. Do you think I'm not trying to talk down here, but do you think there's zombies outside? You don't think so. Oh, God.

Do you know what they are? Yeah. Do you believe in the zombie apocalypse? Do you believe that's going to happen? Probably. Probably. It's going down with Ukraine and stuff. Eldon has his body in an interesting position here,

sitting cross-legged with his arms barriered. It seems this line of questioning has him concerned and feeling defensive. Can you talk to your dad about this type of stuff a lot? No. I just, you know, to myself. Okay. Well, it sounds like you and dad have that in common, though, that you get his belief in his arms.

The apocalypse and he's all like wanting to prepare. Oh, like doomsday stuff? Like something best going to happen? Yeah. What do you do to prepare? He just prepared, thought that trailer and all the other stuff, buying guns. Oh, the crappy brown trailer? Yeah.

Tina Samuel tells detectives that her ex-husband was a survivalist that began training their sons for the inevitable zombie apocalypse. Another thing that Eldon's older brother rejects. Regardless, the cache of weapons, a new trailer on the property and zombie paraphernalia, mixed with the cocktail of medications in Junior's system, certainly lent some credibility to Eldon's story. But there's still something fishy about Eldon's version of events, and detectives backtracked what happened inside the house after he shot his father.

How do you know if you weren't in Johnson's room? How do you know he was in the road? What do you mean? In John's? Yeah. He's always... Right. How do you know that your dad went into Jonathan's drug? I don't have him crawling there.

So were you in your doorway? Yeah, I was in the doorway. You're a little blanket. That's good to see. That's all I need to know. I didn't. I didn't know that. So then what did you do? It's no. I was stopped. Who did? You stopped?

I stopped. Right? By the current ear. This side of it. I just stopped. I just thought that she didn't know what to do. So you kind of froze? Yeah. Did you say anything to yourself?

You know, sometimes we talk to ourselves. We don't say it when inside would say, man, I shouldn't have done that other crap or something like that. What did you do? I didn't do anything. I didn't do anything. I didn't know what to do. He just went in there.

I tried to get shown out. The politicians. Right? And he wouldn't come out. No. He's always afraid of me. Yeah. Because you guys, you guys have issues.

And he has, he has a condition. I'm gonna order that. He's afraid of me. So I tried to get him out. The cushion that could have won't have you. The mattress? Yeah. Okay.

So what? How are you holding up the mattress? Show me. I'm like that. Yeah. And then you're trying to raise free up? I was trying to. I didn't have to bleed.

Show it, come on. Okay. And what are you doing? You're back up. It's good. Okay. I just let the mattress go and just went

and what the mattress was stuck on that it's on the wall okay and it had to house that killed you and it's right

it's right outside covered my ears so when you're outside what happened I just threw a lot of their shots shotgun so if I go to the house

am I going to find a shotgun and if I look at your little brother, am I going to find shotgun shots? Shots and shots? Yeah. Where am I going to find those? We're attacking. Where is that? Eldon repeated, he was right outside, which is once again his attempt to solidify his story. Then he repeats the question, shotgun shots, while looking up to make eye contact with the officer to see if he was believed. Repeating the questions and his statements are all delaying techniques. So is taking a drink in order to give him.

himself more time to think. My brother's room. Your brother, your brother, at what point did you come back and shoot your brother? At what point did you come back and shoot your brother? She'd my brother? Yeah. She'd my brother? Yeah.

The interrogator may be trying to catch him off guard here. He's trying to see if because they've been talking casually if he would speak without thinking. He just casually slides it in there like it's no big deal, or like Elton had already admitted it, likely hoping that Eldon might not. remember what he said earlier. Eldon does do some repeating of the question here, but also doesn't get angry about the officer saying he shot his brother, which of course we know an innocent person would most likely get pretty upset at this insinuation. Eldon gives himself away a bit here.

He shot me brother. That's how you said your dad's dad. Yeah, he had the shotgun. He shot my brother. Ben, either had a shotgun, had a pistol or had him to shed. He did all three. There's no way. I gave him a brother something. He gave him something. She fed for my dad. But you were outside.

I was in the middle of the story. Okay. Well, I was trying to move up to the cushion. Okay? There's shake. Like right there. We're like, my dad is dragging all that stuff. I tried to grab it

My feet And I gave it To your dad And my brother All right But you said you let them The mattresses go

And you can't hold them And yeah That's one I love to go And little And then I just Here, John

All right I just let The hell of the stuff For that Detectives know Eldon is hiding something and they're about to turn up the heat. All right.

Let's let us have a step for that. Okay, let's do this. Listen, we've been really helpful and you've been honest about, we talked about everything we talked about those. So he had got to go and Donald, your house, the terrible things that happened at your house tonight. We talked about that. And for the most part, they could be an honest and you're the only one that helps you

were there, correct? There is no way that you're dead. drug the shotguns and had a machete with him and then you had a pistol there's no way that all that happened what really happened with your brother just tell me

immediately I'm good listen listen pistol I don't know what the technology here is we're gonna

listen we're super good in our jobs okay we're good at gathering evidence putting pieces together like a puzzle that's why they call them

detectives if they detect things we're gonna figure it all out how to do your brother he's shot. You know, that's whole story about a shotgun, and it had you, and all the crap. The real story. With your brother's going to happen.

Yeah, just tell me. You're going to feel better when you tell me. I don't want to hear you. It doesn't make any sense to be perfectly honest in detail about a certain thing, and then kind of, well, your dad, and he had a machete and a shotgun, and there's a 9-millimeter floating around. Well, he shot the bell are crawling around. No way that happened.

So how did your brother get shot? Just to push the kids, so they had a machete who just stuck it on the wall. He said, come on, get out. We'll get him. Okay. Your brother? Yeah. Okay.

With the machete? Yeah. Where did you come? He's just like that, so. Cut your hands. Kind of saying? How many times did you come up? What did he say?

He said, he just exposed to him. He did. What did you say, though? You can speak friendly here when he said, he said, you, okay? Oh, you have a little pitch. You're trying to write because we went from, your dad was dragging all this stuff around, and then you just threw the macheteer out of pace of yourself, which was a total crap story, and we admitted that. So now we're getting to the truth that would happen.

The detective moves into the confession position here. It's important to know that as humans, we naturally mirror body language when we're engaged in conversation with us. others, and our body language can affect our openness and mood. This officer is taking advantage of this by modeling the confession pose in an attempt to get Eldon to join him in the pose that is most likely to elicit honesty and a confession. My dad, he hit me. Okay, I shot him three more times. Was that all one right after the other?

Shot him in the belly three times in the head right after each other. Is that how that worked? I don't know. Well, did he crawl up the hallway, like you said earlier? It sounds like that's me. He did crawl up the hallway. Yeah, after I shot once, he went in John's room. So you're still saying that your dad crawled up the hallway?

Yeah. Okay. He gets in your brother's room, and then what? Most cushions off the bed. The netresses. Call him get out. Told your brother? Yeah, he's sick.

You know? So Not that Head Hit him With the machete In the where You get the hands

Like here Like here On the edge out here Not down here Point to it on yourself Or did it Or is it kind of All around it

How many times did you swing the machete up A lot? How many is a lot It's a lot It's a lot Ballpark More than 50 not 50 30 30 times

did you hit him anywhere else other than here slaves probably hit him in his legs anywhere else head you did him in the head we're out in the head back of his head what else did you do that was it then I called the police

we're getting close we're getting close did you shoot your brother Shot him. You shot him off the job, John? The leg. Okay? Where else?

I think I missed. Other shots. Where do you think you hit him? Or where did you try? I tried him. Him. Where? Where?

Where do you think? What were you aiming at? I was aiming at him. Where on him? He, him's a... He's under the bed. Okay? So where are we aiming that?

standing under the bed So a blind shot You didn't see him You just knew where he was A new shot Well, I tried to see Okay So what were you looking at

I was looking at? What about the 45? Forty-five Did you shoot him with that at all? Be honest I got people that out the crime scene right now And so we're asking you

I'm sorry to think You cannot leave anything out I shot at once Well, Eldon, this is where I'm in with this. Eldon's toes are tightly curled under and crossed. Once again, he rubs at his neck in a position that's automatically calming to the heart. I think you told us quite a bit, but I think that you've left a lot of stuff out, okay? Likely, without meaning to, Eldon nodded when the officer says he left a lot of stuff out.

I think you told us quite a bit, but I think that you've left a lot of stuff out. left a lot of stuff out. Okay? And so, you know, there's any BS that you finished this a little bit ago? Clear it up when we come back in. Okay? So give us a few minutes and then we'll come back in and let you use a restroom and we'll talk again, okay? Just sit down right, pal? Okay. Can you get some chute? This ain't on it. Eldon has finally come clean about hurting his brother, But the question remains, will he give detectives the whole story? So you are pissed at your dad because he puts the hands on you. What?

You pissed at your dad because he puts his hands on you. Why don't you see her? I guess it right there. No, but when your dad doesn't do you, how do you feel not? I felt like scared. Like he's going to kill me? Okay. from pushing you?

Yeah. Eldon does a quick lip compression when he mentions self-defense. He's verbalizing what he's been trying to relay to detectives, which is that he supposedly shot his father in self-defense. However, we later learned that Eldon's understanding is limited when it comes to what truly constitutes acting in self-defense. He slipped into the detective's modeled confession pose posture as well,

though not as far down. Did you have, did you have, the gun in the sand at that point? I didn't know if he had a dynamometer on. But you already had the 45 at this point, right? I couldn't find the dynamometer. How did you get the gun from your dad? It was on the ground.

He dropped it on the couch. It was right. No, under the couch, where it keeps it. I just took it, this, like, clip out, took out the bullet, and put it back. And then dad pushes it.

He just pushed me. Okay? And then do you say anything to him after that? Like anything? I said, stop. Okay. Is that it? Yeah.

Okay. And then he does it again. I just, but I'm asking you first, you, he pushed you a second time. Yeah. Okay. What did it seem like dad was trying to do by pushing you? He's just pushing me harder. Okay.

Was he trying to get you to sit down? Was he trying to, let me just pushing me. he had to push me somewhere. But what did he say? He didn't say anything but he just said he was just pushing me. And he didn't say any words. He just, I just told him. By steepling his hands, the detective is attempting to convey a sense of confidence

and leadership in this situation. He's taken the lead in questioning and is reflecting that with his nonverbal cues. He's also spread his elbows out and is taking up a lot of space. Another sign of confidence. So he pushes you. You tell him to stop, he pushes you again, and you shoot. Okay. And that's when you hit him in the belly.

Yeah. Dad basically crawls from the area of your bedroom. Are you in your bedroom at this point? Yeah. Okay. And is that kind of backing you into your bedroom? No, I'm like trying to get out. Oh, you're trying to get out of your bedroom.

And he's trying to keep you in your bedroom. No. I just get out and just crawling out in front of the couch. Same weird stuff. Like, I couldn't even know where he was saying? I don't know. He was just, like, blabbering, you know? I didn't know what he was saying.

He saw his medication. And he just got shot in the belly. Yeah. Right? Right. That might put somebody into a little bit of shock, don't you think? Yes. Okay, so he crawls.

He's creating a little blood drop trail, and he's going to your brother's room. And so does he make it into your brother's room? Yeah. Okay. and then how is he seated? What's he doing? Is he laying down, and he sits up? What?

He's sitting up. Sitting up. Sitting up on his butt. Yeah. Dropped up against something? Yeah. What? I don't know.

The desk that John has? The dust that John has? Yeah. And is Dad saying anything to you at this point? No. Okay. And then as he's propped up, then you, at that point is that when you take two more shots? and you hit him in the face,

but you don't think that that did the job. No, because it didn't hit too far. Okay, so then you took one more shot up higher to hit the break. Okay. And you knew that he probably wasn't dead or might not die because of what you, the three shots prior, but you thought this shot would cause him to die? I understand that it's traumatic and things

like that. But at the same time, I don't believe a young man like yourself, seem like a pretty smart kid, doesn't know what happened. So I need you to be 100% honest with me, because I have detectives down at the scene that are telling me what they see and what they believe is happening or has happened. And so I need you to be 100% honest to me about that, because some of the stuff you're saying is contradictory of what the evidence is telling us. Do you understand that? Yeah. Okay. Usually the evidence doesn't lie. Okay? Usually. And I say that because sometimes it happens, but in this case, I don't think that it is. It's not too hard to understand what happened. Fair enough. But what we're missing is exactly all the details of what happened, and we're missing basically why it happened, the right. real why and things like that.

So with that being said, did you shoot your brother? 12. By saying with what, Eldon avoids having to say no or yes. He's trying to find out what information the detectives have already first before he admits to anything. You tell me I wasn't there. It's a simple question. What you can? I don't know.

I wasn't there, Eldon. Dude, that's not the question. My idea. Okay. So what gun did you shoot him with? I think it was a shotgun. I know what the shot was back. And a few times?

Yeah. Okay. A few to me is three. Okay. So how many times did you shoot him? Well, I had a shotgun wound. Two had a tie. Then I started like trying to get one of the bed.

So how many times do you think he hit him with a shotgun? And where? the legs five times he hit him the legs five times he five shots

to the legs so then what happens pulled the mattresses over then he started saying like the efforts

to me and stuff did you use the machete on him yet? Yeah you had already cut him with the machete after after the shotgun

yeah Okay, so that's what I'm getting there. So the first thing you did to him was shoot him with a shotgun. Okay. And then the machete came later. Yeah. Can you stand up for me and show me how you swung at him? And don't do it to either one of us.

Maybe face that wall and show us what you did. I was like on the couch, the mattress to kitchen. And I was, he had said like that. What did you say when you were doing it? He didn't say anything. Okay. Was he saying anything? No.

Okay. Okay. Now, you're doing that. Now I want you to do it how hard you did it to him. I want you to show me how hard you were swinging the shed. Okay, so just the second ago, you were one hand. Yeah. Okay?

Now you just did two of him. Yeah. So which is it? I don't know. It was two-handed the machine. had like a little shell. Okay. So,

one head over the other? Yeah. Okay. But I guess what I'm saying to you is I want to see how hard you did that. Just demonstrate for me how hard you swung that. Was it hard as hard as I could? As hard as you could. Perfect.

That's what I wanted to know. Once he's outside of the bed and you hit him in the back of the head, where else do you hit him after that? No, where else? That was it. Yeah. Was he dead? I don't know. Was he moving? Well, when I was sitting in a pretty shady.

Was he moving because you were hitting him or was he moving on his own? He was moving. Okay. Was he saying anything? No. I thought he was F bombing you. Yeah. You know the expression. You said that. Those are your words, not mine. He was being quiet after that. After you then, then. Yeah. And then I called the police. police. Now that they're making headway on how Jr. and Jonathan were killed, it's time to ask the most important question. Why'd you do it? My brother. He was the reason why I'm taking the education.

He just made everybody in the stores. Start really feeding him. It seems that Eldon may have wanted to eliminate what he perceived is the root of the family's problems. From Eldon's perspective, his father may have been the most severe issue in the household because of his alleged abuse of the boys and of Eldon's mother. Eldon is, after all, a child, so his thinking and way of processing the dysfunction in the family come from the perspective of a young teen who may have been abused and neglected. It's very possible that his father may have blamed his issues on the kids, which is typical of abusive and neglectful parents. Eldon may have believed this, which could explain his anger toward his brother. It's important to keep in mind that in the teen years, the brains of adolescents are still developing,

particularly the frontal lobe, which means that they may act impulsively or may act on intense emotions or issues at home without fully considering or fully understanding the true dynamics of the issues. It's important to consider the role of how teenagers think and process information because at this age, it's typical for kids to fantasize about escaping situations they don't like. In Eldon's case, it was much more than just something he doesn't like. This may have led him to resort to such extreme measures. How long have you been hating him? Years. How many years?

A lot of years? You're 14. Nine years? You've been hating his wife? Five years? Ten? My mom couldn't handle the stress. Seen any more so she ran away.

Have you ever thought about her and your brother? before? Yeah. Yeah? How would you have done that? Probably a long time ago. What? Or six. What? It is stabbed him. You stabbed your brother in the back? Yeah. And you get caught? I think so. It was like six years old. You stabbed your brother in back with what? What's what? I'm like a kitchen. Like a kitchen night?

Did you bleed? I don't know. I don't remember. I think you didn't believe. How many times you stabbed? You get in trouble? You didn't get in trouble. You stabbed the brother in the back.

Did your dad know about it? I think so. So where does this anger come from? Your brother? Where's the anger come for your dad? You didn't? You didn't have anger towards dad? Well, I find that hard to believe when you just shot your dad four times.

had four times. So where's your anger come from your dad? He used to beat me. Okay, and I've heard you say that, but you haven't really explained that. What do you mean he used to beat you? Just beat me. I loved him. But the next time I came after me. You had decided that you were going to do something about it? Yeah. What did you decide you were going to do? Shoot. That's what you told you so. Next time he came out, you were going to shoot him. When did you first think of that? Just right at that point. When was that, though?

What's the same? This night? This night? Yeah. So tell me about the times that your dad has beat you in the past. I think you said between the last time and tonight it had been about eight months. Is that still accurate? Okay.

And then prior to the eight months, how many times is your dad, as you say, be here. Like, he just to take his pills like once a month and start acting crazy. I called the police last time when he's trying to

drive the truck under the influence. I'm aware of that report. Yeah. Eldon avoids the question here and instead starts telling a story about one specific instance. So what happened though,

I tried to stop it. what happened to him not to the hospital hospital or jail hospital and they keep them overnight yeah

they usually do what did you say when he got out what did you say to your dad what did you say to him did anything you can tell him you were pissed at him or he loved him or he handed him what'd you think

probably be bad at me and call the police on okay Eldon admits to harboring a lifelong hatred for his brother who was severely autistic and required a lot of their father's attention. But had Eldon been planning to kill his family all along, or did he simply snap? So where do we leave off? We left off with what happened with your brother, okay? And then we were talking a little bit about that seems to me, and don't let me put words in your mouth that you're a little,

Excuse me, anger with your brother. Yeah. Is that fair to say? Yeah. And he said it's been going on quite some time. Yeah. And I think you said that part of your anger is that, you know, not only does he upset you, he upset your dad, he upset your mom. Who else is he upset?

Everybody. Who's everybody? I don't know. He's just upset people that. In stores? pulling people's name? Was tonight

what you were going to do about it? Yeah. So how long you've been thinking about her to

your brother? A while. How long is a while? Can you tell me what kind of thoughts you had

when you think about hurt your brother? Yeah, I don't want hearing. Okay. So what were

your ideas on how to make that happen? Just kept him killed or something huh get him killed or something

get him killed or something so in your thought the way that this needed in was your brother to die my mother would have left but that's for my dad because my dad

sure you're like I was dad I'm sure you were what makes you really the most mad thing that Jonathan did what was it like

if I like dad my dad bought a candy bar for John and I told him not to eat it and I walked back he would eat it Oh like how it's he amazing

Why would you tell him not to eat it? Because I wouldn't eat it Oh right And he would just buy one for Jonathan Yeah Why would you buy one for you? Oh well he did So you want to vote?

Yeah All right Well that's honest You think that's there For me All right for you That's a good statement Well

Why for you is that fair? It's good for me. But not for him. And then if he said, if he didn't do what he said, you'd be pissed at him? I would be pissed. Yeah. How pissed?

Yeah. Real pissed. You ever fought with your brother before? No. They've thrown stuff out. You throw stuff out? It's annoying stuff. He brings back from school.

Like, it's clap hands up. He'll break that stuff. Throw out of it. It's say, don't bring any of that. Why do you want you to die? Well, I know I want him to be killing me. Eldon's intense eye rubbing is a continued form of eye blocking. Okay, so you're saying that you killed him so he wouldn't kill you.

He's got to kill me all those times. What time was that? All the different times. Okay, and we talked about that a little bit, but other than pushing and stuff like that, You haven't told me anything that would lead me to believe that your dad was going to kill you. So what am I missing? What time you mean? When you were walking and he was crawling to the brother's room and you saw him and he was propped up,

were you thinking, you know how we talked about? I talked about, hey, we have these voices to the side that say, well, I'm not going to let that happen again. I can do that. Did you go in there and said, I can save yourself, I'm going to kill him? Or did you think that? What did you think when you were walking to your brother's bedroom, what they got in your hand? What else? I know what I thought? If you were just, if he was going to live, he said, come after me. That's what you thought? Yeah. It's hard to tell, but Eldon may be crying or attempting to look like he's crying.

His statements about getting mad at his brother for not handing over his candy bar clearly show he's quite the self-absorbed young person. So if there's tears, they're likely because he's realized he's not going to be walking away from this at this point. So did you walk in there knowing that you had to kill your dad? Yeah. That was your only option? Yeah. Is what, now I'm just trying to understand what you're thinking.

I'm not saying that's what I'm asking. Was your only thought that your dad needed to die so he didn't come back and hurt you? Yeah. Is that fair? Anybody else? Okay. Is that, what I'm saying is that accurate? Yeah.

Okay. So I don't want to put words in your mind, okay? Okay. I want to put words in your mouth. I want to make sure these are your words. Your words, your words. Okay. The parents.

Okay. The parents. So what did you do because of that? Maybe. Because he would either hurt you, your mother, your grandparents, what'd you do so he couldn't do that? Shog on the head. Okay. Did you do that with the intention on killing him?

Yeah. Okay. Why? if your issue was with your dad that night, which it seemed like it started there, why kill your brother? Just because of everything else that you told me? Yeah.

It seemed like he cared for John more than anybody. Your dad did? Yeah. Okay. And so tell me about that. Daddy would say? Yeah. Because John was like, right?

That's part of the house. your perspective John's the best one in the house that's your perspective from how what dad treated you versus in so how many times in the last month have you thought about killed your dead brother

just that night just what night this night so you never thought about it prior to this now earlier you told me that you had what you said that? you said, and we could play the feedback, but you said, if he did it again, and I was thinking if he did it again, and punched me again or pushed me again,

that I would kill him. Yeah, but I didn't. That was continuing on. I just couldn't do it. So that's why he's asking that question. I was like, I couldn't do that. And then that one night, I did it. Good night.

Yeah. Okay. So, but you've thought about it. Have you ever acted on it? Like got the gun ready? No. We're ready to do it and you just come bring yourself to do it? I just going to bring myself to do it. But I guess that's what I'm asking.

Did you ever prepare yourself to do it? You just couldn't do it? No. I think it was your words. He said, man, I hate my brother. You said that. Is that accurate? You hate your brother?

Yeah. You hate your brother enough to kill him? You do? Yeah. Okay. And is that why you did it tonight? So I understand. What else?

He was part of the reason why I did that. If he wasn't here all these times, my dad would be taking medication. My mom would have left. So you blame your brother for your family not being together. And you blame your dad a little bit for that same thing if I heard you right, because they how he treated your mom. Yeah. Is that accurate?

so is it fair to say because of those reasons that you have some serious anger toward both of them not hate more no towards your dad brother hey back my brother's daughter you hated your brother more yeah okay but it doesn't sound like you were all that fond of dad either well i'm asking yeah again this is me asking you a question it's self-defense What was self-defense? Dad. Why? Push me.

You should take a time of the show. Okay. Why do you think a push by your dad? Because he's done it before. Okay. I guess I'm just trying to wrap my mind around, and I'm asking. I'm not, you know, not trying to hurt your feelings or anything like that, but I'm asking, why would your dad pushing you cause you to shoot him?

I don't like you a stretch of me. Because he pushed you? Yeah. How many times my dad pushed me when I was a kid? Yeah, but he pushed me like, like, hit me. The officer is a little out of line here. Just because your dad pushed you around as a kid, which wasn't okay, it doesn't excuse any dad pushing their kid around.

It's not clear exactly. what he's trying to do here is this question has been asked and answered the same multiple times now. So kind of pushed you, hid you in that chest there. Okay. Okay. Did you ever have a kid at the school bunch of it? If not at Lays and California, you ever had a kid at school on you? California. Yeah. All right. Do you ever feel like you need to shoot him? No, I don't want to just feel like a need to punch her back. Okay. What if I punch you in the chest? Look right now? Yeah. I'm not going to do it. So I'm not trying to get your work. up, but what if I did that?

Would you feel like you need your fingers? Shoot me to defend yourself? I punched you. I'd punch your back. Fair enough. So why didn't you just punch your dad back? I did that before. Work time.

So why not tonight? I'm just trying to understand, you know, Eldon, why it went to the point now that we are sitting here with you and your dad and your brother are dead. Does that bother you? It doesn't bother you that they're dead? No. Because. Why? Because.

Because why? Can you try and explain that to me a little bit? Because that's a pretty bold statement that you don't care that there's it. Eldon claims to have no remorse for what he did. It seems that his anger supersedes any other emotion he might have, at least here, during the interrogation. This is an indication of the extent of the anger that Eldon has harbored against his father and brother. It's so strong and so deep that even after all is said and done, after the adrenaline rush of the situation has subsided,

and his father and brother are being referred to in the past tense. He's claiming not to feel any sadness or emotion for them. It's also an indication of how troubled Eldon is. When asked Natasha, Eldon's half-sister, said that Eldon didn't have a chance, in reference to his childhood. It's possible that he may feel relief now, even though Eldon knows he's likely to face consequences for what he did. What are you crying about?

Are you crying because you got a cough? What are you upset? When the police came, why are you upset? Why are you crying? And sometimes it's difficult for you to talk about us if you don't care if they're dead. You don't? Do you know? If you don't know, you don't know.

That's no. All right. but you're not upset over them being dead you kind of feel bad my dad you kind of feel bad for your dad

but not at all for your brother yeah how long well I remember you saying that you only thought about this tonight you know that's a pretty calculating thing

so I just know I have to do it tonight. Why? Why tonight? I couldn't wait any longer. Hmm? I didn't wait any longer. So how long did you wait?

I thought about it. Like, when after he'd be in me? Eight months ago? Yeah, what that? After he beats me and takes away on my stuff, I just laid in. I bed. So probably, it's about doing it.

I could do it. I stopped. Stop thinking about it. So between the last time he beat you and tonight, how many times have you thought about it? It stopped. Just did it. Well, we know you did it, but how many times you didn't think about it? That's this question.

Thought about it every time you beat me. I guess that's my point, because if I'm even understanding your story, the last time he beat you was eight months ago. And then tonight, this happens. So in between those times, how many times did you think about doing what you did tonight? Oh, no. It did it at night.

Okay. Have you, do you recall ever thinking about it during that time frame? I can imagine. Okay. What have you imagined doing? And so you're dead. What have you thought about your brother? just as you had

okay so you never you never dreamt about it thought about it about killing your brother even though you hate him and he's the cause of the you know

that your family's not whole yeah but you've never thought about killing him until the night yeah but you have had had thoughts about killing your dad in the past

I mean you know I think I'm understanding your story a little better I think we're there. The only thing that I'm hung up on is the fact that how much you hate your brother, at least that's what you relayed to us, and that this is the first time you ever thought about it. Yeah.

So I just don't know if I'm buying it apart. I'm not. And if you're leaving it out, you go out. The times that you thought about killing your brother. I didn't thought about it, but I never knew how to do it. That's what I'm doing. I was thinking.

Or he died. When you think about, but I didn't have to think about it. Eldon goes back and forth as to whether or not he planned to kill his brother or made prior attempts. But he still hasn't told the detectives everything and is about to reveal another final layer to his depravity. One thing I did know, maybe it was just, like I said, I'm all in my ears. There's that shotgun? Where's the shotgun?

right now. I don't know. I know you know. Come on. Where is it? Where is it? We're going. So, you knew where it was in your room where it was leading up. You knew how many shells you put in it is. You knew how you stuck it under the bed because you demonstrated that. So let's say I'm just going in the house. Lice her off and I got a flashlight. Where am I going to find me? Flashlight? Yeah. Where'd you say I should do?

That's what? The shock. I don't know. Yes, you do. You do now. I forgot. I think I just said. slept it there in bed in that room for your brother and dad are dead okay where's the 45 some counter the counter in the kitchen and then you don't know where the 9 millimeter is and that never came out you never saw it okay it's probably in the room or is the machete and the other knife, the dagger knife, the other knife?

What? There's one other night. Where's that? We talked about it earlier. The knife. Yeah. The black knife? Sure.

Whatever knife he was there. Yeah. That was. Yeah. Where is it? I loved it there. What'd you do with it, though? Oh, no.

I just stopped what it was doing me. With the knife, not the knife? No. What were you doing with the knife? I'm stabbing them. Stamadoo. Sean. Okay.

With the knife, not the machete. Okay, so see, that's a new twist of this. You never told us that. I forgot. Okay, okay. So let's talk about that. Go ahead, sir. How many times do you stab them?

15, 14 times. Okay, so let me make sure I got this right. You use the machete on them first, correct? And then you hit them approximately. 30 times with that kind of, we discussed it all over the body for the most part. Arms, legs, head, probably nothing to the torso. It doesn't sound like anything to the back. What the officer is describing here is overkill and shows the serious levels of rage Eldon has towards his brother. The interrogators are now going much faster with Eldon, not leaving any

empty space for him to answer and basically just feeding him a narrative. They're no longer asking open questions and being quiet for a moment to let him answer on his own. This may be a change in strategy because they don't want to give him too long to think and formulate another lie. It's also possible that they're shocked at his responses and a bit emotional themselves, which would be completely understandable. It's a lot of anger. Any other weapons that we haven't talked about that you used and have used, that you use tonight there's other weapons

but they were what do you think should happen to you here if you were us and you were talking to me what should happen normally interrogators

posed this question the punishment question earlier on in the discussion not after the suspect has admitted to the crime this may be an attempt to gauge his understanding of right and wrong

or to see if he feels any remorse whatsoever If he still said a warning or going to live with his mom or counseling or any kind of soft answer, then it really would point to him having a remorseless frame of mind. Who had to count for you? What about the legal stuff? What should happen? Jail, morning, what? Come up.

Hey, Mom. You're smart. You're smart. Give us a gift. Yes. Yeah. What would you do? What should happen to someone that just killed their brother and their father? Die. Do you think a person should die?

Yeah. Why? I have probably to serve it. Do you think you deserve that? Yeah. You think you deserve to die because you killed your brother, you're dead. Yeah. Okay.

This is an unexpected answer, particularly since Eldon initially stated that he should go back to California with his mom. He goes from basically saying he should be set free to then referring to the death penalty. It's very likely that Eldon felt trapped and hopeless, living in an abiding situation with two people that he grew to despise. It's important to keep in mind that a person alone typically doesn't result in a teenager killing his father and brother. There typically have to be serious behavioral issues present and early anti-social traits. All right, man. I think we're done. Let us step out and talk for a few minutes and then we'll figure out what we're going to do with you next, okay?

Okay. We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. As soon as they come back in, I'll do it. Okay? Once you figure it all that, okay. Okay. Okay.

Turn your head behind your back in for the top of the here, okay? Turn your face wall. Okay. You're under arrest for first degree murder times two. Okay. After a preliminary hearing, Eldon's first degree murder charge for his father dropped down to second degree. After the judge didn't feel there was sufficient evidence to pre- sufficient evidence to prove premeditation. However, the first-degree charged stuck for the murder of

Jonathan. Eldon was tried as an adult in 2016, and though the detectives had a hard time getting him to land on an exact timeline, the prosecution laid it out for the jury to show just how much damage Eldon had done. Junior was shot in the stomach after allegedly pushing Eldon twice. Junior crawled to his youngest son's room and propped himself up against the nightstand, where Eldon shot him three more times in the head with a 45-caliber handgun. After an unsuccessful attempt to coax Jonathan out from under the bed, Eldon shoved the 45 underneath and shot at his brother several times. He then opted instead for a shotgun, loaded it, and shot Jonathan again multiple times.

After removing the mattress and box spring, Eldon then grabbed a shotgun, knife and began to stab his brother. Jonathan tried to crawl out from under the bed towards his father when Eldon grabbed his final weapon, the machete, and hacked at his brother's arms, legs, and head until he stopped moving. The prosecution described Eldon's actions as prolonged and purposeful. The fact that he used multiple weapons against his helpless brother showed that the killing was deliberate and premeditated. The defense tried to argue that Junior had given Eldon some of his medications which had altered his brain. They told the jury that Eldon merely snapped after years of neglect, but never planned to murder his family before that moment. In addition,

the defense used what was referred to as the zombie defense, in which Junior prepped for the apocalypse to show just how unstable Jr. was leading up to and at the time of the attack, which the prosecution fully rejected, calling the claim ridiculous. In the end, 14-year-old Eldon was found guilty of the second-degree murder of his father, Eldon Samuel the second, and guilty of the first-degree murder of his younger brother, Jonathan Samuel. He was sentenced to 20 years fixed with five years indeterminate for the murder of his brother, and 10 years fixed with five years indeterminate for the murder of his father, which are being served concurrently in an adult prison.

Eldon is due to be released in March of 2009.