EXPLORE WITH US - Babysitter Laughs After Killing Baby & Taking Lifeless Body to McDonald's: The Case of Marissa Tietsort

Episode Date: November 8, 2023

Babysitter LAUGHS after killing baby & taking lifeless body to McDonald's...The following podcast episode is not legal advice. Do not rely on the information in this presentation without speaking to a licensed attorney.No one discussed in these videos has been formally diagnosed by EWU and our psychological analysis is based on the general behaviors and traits of the people discussed.

Tell me again. On October 18th, 2008, Heather Gardner made a late night trip to a laundromat. Hoping to catch up on her chores for the week. With her was her sister Jesse as well as Heather's two sons, her toddler, Jathan, and her two-month-old baby Benson. As the two women got to work with the laundry, Jesse made a shocking disgust. Benson was ice cold to the touch, and his lips had gone blue. Terrified, Heather began CPR while her sister made a harrowing phone call to 911. Yeah,

Harrison County, 911. Please, please, please. At the Longtonet in the corner of third and union, please, at the corner of the longtronet on the corner of... I just stop. 9.23? 923, third average, a marrow average or something, I'm not sure. Third Ave and Merrill Ave are very different places. Which one are you at?

Heather, if they're laundry mat, I don't know the name of it, but I have another child in my arms. My sister's baby is bed. We just think about from the babysitters. There's CPR in that baby. We don't know how. We don't know. Is he, have him on his back? Yeah, he has his back.

Okay, I need you to tip his head back. He has been freezing cold. He's freezing cold. Tip and his head back, Heather. Ticket head back. I need you to blow into his mouth. So close. Into his nose.

Into his nose. Go ahead. Where if I'm on to Matt, you. You don't have to do him. Yes, I need you to start by it. I need to listen to me. Yes, no, I'm going to his mouth two times. Okay, I got to go walk out through here.

Yes, I am. Blown to his mouth two times, plug his nose. He's freezing cold already. Okay, ma'am, I need to take your hand and put in the middle of his chest. Okay. Okay, and you're going to push on his chest. Okay. You count with me, ready?

Yes. One, two. As Heather continues to follow the 911 operator's instructions, officers arrive on scene and are quick to take over. When the ambulance finally arrives, Benson has rushed inside for life-saving measures. Unfortunately, there's nothing they can do for him, and he's officially declared deceased. The immediate question was whether this was a case of something like SIDS, sudden infant death syndrome, or if something far more unimaginable had occurred. Desperate for answers, Heather and...

and Jesse tearfully explained to the officers what's going on. Babysitter, I took him out of there and he was cold. Despite the horror and trauma that Heather's going through, the officer is able to get the babysitter's name from her. Marissa Tisor. Yes. As officers handle getting Marissa Tetzor's address and information, Detective Jennifer Holtz arrives on scene

and sits down to interview Heather and Jesse. The following mostly never-before-seen footage has been thoroughly analyzed by a former licensed professional counselor, a licensed professional counselor and a licensed clinical psychologist. Before the interview can start, Jesse gives Detective Holt some unfortunate news. Sorry, I sent her a text too on Heather's stolen when this was all happening. I shouldn't have done it, I shouldn't do it. But I said you killed my sister's baby.

What did she say? She didn't say anything there. Can you tell that she read it? Is it like a Facebook message or a text? A text. It doesn't say she did. Sorry. No, it's right.

I just was really angry, and it was just like, I was on Heather's phone. It's all right. And I just didn't. You know what to say? I'm sorry. While this may not seem significant at first, it would turn out to be very important. Although the police can't head to Marissa's apartment to talk just yet, they do send an officer over to a building. The interview then gets underway, and at first, everything Heather and Jesse described sounds normal.

Heather was a long-time friend of Marissa's, and Marissa had been babysitting her kids whenever Heather had to work. However, as Heather and Jessie described their interactions with Marissa while picking up the kids that night, it becomes clear that something was very, very wrong. You guys both went inside.

No, she didn't even let us inside. She let us set the door. And then Marissa handed me the other baby. Yep, and just the diaper baby. And that Heather was in the doorway for two seconds and said something out of the hickey and the door shut and we were gone. And so it was just real quick.

Yeah, she was like, she was at the door ready. Her face, that's girl's face was beat. But not kidding you, what I thought in my head was, Jesus Christ, what the hell is she on? And usually she's like, okay, what time tomorrow or, you know, I'll see her. Nothing. Nothing. This is super a new call. She, she, usually I go in the house and I help her, at least pack the kids in their car, the kid, baby in his car seat and or take Jane.

What was this? What was Adam? You're just sitting on the couch? Was he, like, acting weird, shaking, shaking, eating? I didn't just even barely look at him. It was dark in there. was on with a gig. She just seemed so weird to me. Yeah, but she is never really there, but it was. But it was very, I know, Marissa, and it was just, something was really off. There's no denying that

Marissa was acting suspiciously, and it was quickly becoming evident to Detective Holtz that if she wanted to find out the truth about Benson's death, she was going to have to find Marissa. Unfortunately, this would prove harder than anyone was expecting. Detective Holtz made her way to the apartment Marissa shared with Adam, her longtime boyfriend, and the father of her children. With Jesse having texted Marissa about Benson's death, Detective Holtz wasn't sure what to expect when she got to the apartment. Just to be safe, she brought several officers along for backup, as well as Captain Graham. It soon became evident that no one was going to answer the door,

leading officers to take drastic measures. What's the police? Anybody in here? Kids are... Show me your hands, anybody? Anybody. Just as they had feared, Marissa was nowhere to be seen, but this didn't mean all hope was lost. Detective Holtz was able to get in touch with Marissa's service provider and have her phone tracked down to a local hotel known as the plaza. Within an hour, Holtz and Graham were standing in front of Marissa's hotel dorm. Is Marissa here?

What are you just doing? At least Adam just clock over this. Okay, we'll explain everything in a second. Well, you already charged her. What the fuck? Adam, stay here. No. You guys are harassing the hell out of us. And she already got charged. We'll be at court. Why are you got to come here?

Well, because we need to talk to her about something new. Something new? Yep. Marissa, I need you to wake up. Why are you guys here? Because we wanted to get away. We got to... From what? Everything. Isn't it against the law to come stay at a hotel room for the night? Can you get up so I can talk to you?

Now that the police finally have Marissa and Adam located, it's time to separate them for interviews and see if they have any information about what may have happened to Benson. This is a very important conversation we're about to have, okay? Tell me about taking care of him today. Oh, I was just watching him and YouTube was fine. Notice Marissa's upward inflection at the end of her sentence when she says he was fine. YouTube is fine.

This is not typical of a statement, but rather a question, which indicates that Marissa isn't feeling sure about what she's saying. I was about it. Did you feed him or? I fed him once and then he slept and, well, we went outside when they first got there a little bit. So it was nice. You and the kids. Yep.

Okay. Mm-hmm. Was he dressed in what? He was dressed in a snowsuit and a blanket. Okay. And then you were home alone and then what time did Adam get home? Um, he got home at like almost, um, I don't know, maybe 6.30 or something like that. Where was he at?

He was hunting. Okay. And then what would you guys do after that after Adam got home? Um, we went to eat a little bit, um, after he got home. Where'd you go? McDonald's. Which one? The one.

over by the courthouse. Okay. Go inside, the drive-thru? Went inside. Okay. How long did you stay there? I don't know, about maybe 15 minutes tops. Okay.

So did you eat inside or you just grab the food and then go? I ate inside. Okay. You were able to finish your meal in 15 minutes. That's pretty good. Okay. He ate when he got there, and that was about it. One bottle, like a full one, half one?

He ate like four ounces. Okay. But yeah, he like eats it depends. Did Heather send that with you pre-made or did you make that up? She sends it pre-made and then, yeah, then I made another one, so. Okay. And then what happened? Did you come straight home after McDonald's?

Mm-hmm. The only place you went outside of the house was McDonald's. Okay. Then came straight home and anything significant happened? No. We came home after McDonald's. We put a movie in, then like, I don't know how long it was after, but she called and she's like, I'm putting my clothes in the dryer and then I'll be there and then like 15 minutes she came there. Okay. Did you have him ready or did she get him ready? Yeah, I had him ready. I left him in his car seat. Okay. How long had he been in his car seat?

After McDonald's, it was only like half hour, 45 minutes maybe. Okay. It was right after McDonald's. I just slept in his car seat and then he didn't take him back out? No, because usually she's there at like 930s. Throughout this initial statement, Marissa is repeatedly saying, and then... And then he slept and then like... This usually indicates something being left out in someone's story.

In an interview, detectives will dive more. deeply into portions of the story where a suspect is repeatedly using phrases like, and then, or, and this happened. The wake the whole time? Oh, he was sleeping. What? The whole time. The whole time your babysat him?

Well, no, I mean, like, after he got there, he was up for, like, a couple hours, and then I fed him, and then I put him in the pack and play, and then I have this little camera, like the video monitor. and then like I had to check on him because I have that now. So like. And he was in your back bedroom or? Mm-hmm. In our bedroom.

In your bedroom. And a pack and play. And then, um. Are you okay? Yeah, I'm just like, have sleep. Marissa's laugh and smile here is odd given the circumstances. This is clearly a serious situation. When a suspect acts unconcerned, this can be a red flag for deception.

They may be trying to play it cool so that they don't. look guilty when actually their behavior just makes them look more suspicious. Okay. So the reason we're here, Brittany, I'm sure you must be asking yourself this, right? Not Britney. I'm sorry, Marissa. You have a sister Brittany, right? The reason we're here is... Although the audio here is redacted, we can infer that she informs Marissa that Benson is deceased. Why is he dead? We were hoping that you could shed some light on that. I don't know what is.

And I need you to tell me what happened. I don't know what happened. This is the most important conversation we'll ever have in your life. I'm telling you. I don't know. You're not telling me. You didn't tell me last time and you're not telling me now and I need you to tell me the truth. Heather deserves to know what happened.

I know. As Detective Holt states, this isn't the first time that Marissa is being questioned about potential child In fact, it's actually the third time. Two months prior to Benson's death, Detective Holtz was called to the home Marissa shared with her boyfriend, Adam, after a child sustained severe head and face injuries while in Marissa's care. While Marissa and Adam claimed the child just had an accident, Detective Holtz is determined to figure out the whole story.

Mine. Nothing to her head. And Adam, when you say that the child fell off at home, Did you witness that or no but I mean versus one of these people that I mean she Resorted to drugs because her kids got taken away to the point where she Was a rack of bones in the only way we got her to go to the clinic and get clean She's been clean for four years now. Okay, is that we told her we're gonna sign her in the rehab and she doesn't want to get forcefully Put it sure

That's fair enough. But she has no reason to lie in here. And I mean, whenever she babysits its kids and we have other people that she watches for this coffee table gets put in the living room and then kids get put toys on. Okay. Toys all come out on the floor. As you see, they're here. Okay.

I see this is like a matching set. Are they the same? No, they're not a set. It just happened to be the same color. Okay, got it. This one I got for free up in Maryland and that one we've had for a long time. Do you know which coach in particular? It would have been this one.

On that side of the couch, sleeping, it was over here sleeping, and she just went to the bathroom. And she was literally just pulling her pants up, and she heard her cry. But, I mean, bitches like they are and can't come talk to me about something, or come talk to us before they go and get you guys involved. I mean, she obviously fell and hit a toy or something, and Mercer's not going to go and beat a kid. I mean, she was into the child and stuff, so she's very protective of kids. I mean, this is all ridiculous.

So, getting a little upset about it. No, I know, and just calm down where everything's fine. I can't calm down because, like I said, I got f***ed over my social services too many times. I try to work with them and I'll look. He's our fifth child. I got pictures of my kids here and that's all I can do. That's all I get to see of them is pictures. So, and there's nothing I can do about.

Although Adam isn't getting into specifics here, He's referencing the fact that four of his and Marissa's children were all taken by social services. Had social services known about their fifth and youngest child, he also would have likely been taken. Detective Holtz and the women from child services wait around in the apartment for a while until finally, Marissa arrives home. Oh, hi. Hi. And I've been assigned to investigate and follow up on who I understand you were providing care for. And these fine young laces are from social services.

So because there's a child involved and you were providing care for that child at the time social services gets involved. So I just need to hear from you. I was babysitting. She went to bed so I decided to clean. And then I was like doing dishes, her screaming and then staff doing dishes and then stopped the couch and there's a bunch of toys. Because usually I have her sister, so when she follows her. So I had a bunch of toys out in the living room. Okay.

So you were doing dishes and you heard screaming? Was she sleeping or just laying there? Yep. And she must have rolled off and then I stopped doing the dishes and she was on the floor. And all she had was rug front and then she had bruises so she must have hit a toy. What toy was on the floor? I had all, like, I had a bunch of, like, this table was out, and I had a bunch of toys, like, in the middle, on the rug.

Okay. And what's the place, well, a bunch. Like, I took a bunch out of all kinds of toys. And she was sleeping on his couch, she must remove. But I take the table out whenever I say it, and put in the kitchen. It's an immediate red flag for deception that Marissa fails to incorporate any of her own emotions during her account of what happened. Most people who were telling the truth will include their feelings during the

the event. However, it's typically difficult for a guilty person to fake emotion, so guilty individuals will often opt to keep their emotions very neutral, even if it's completely inappropriate to stay neutral given the circumstances. Has anything like this come up with you before? No. As far as a child being injured? Are you sure about that? Were you talked to about a year ago for a child that was injured that sustained a skull fracture? Oh yeah, that wasn't, that was not me. You were providing care for her? Well, yeah, I was, but I don't have any child to do nothing.

Okay. I have kids, so like I've never, I love kids, I don't know. You know nothing. Okay. I always babysit people's kids. Right. Right. I know we're saying you beat anybody, but people lose their temper sometimes. Things like that happen.

I never had postpartum nothing. Noticeably, Marissa also doesn't flat out deny these prior allegations. I love you, so I don't. You know nothing. In theory, it should be a flat out denial, but she just can't seem to get the words right, something that will surely stand out to detectives. Talking about how much she loves kids is still not a straight denial of her allegations. It can be difficult for a guilty individual to make a false denial as their body will automatically start showing physiological signs of anxiety. With an ongoing child abuse investigation against Marissa, social services informs the couple that their baby son won't be able to stay with them.

Adam doesn't take the news very well. We place with relatives. If you don't have a relative, then we have to look at foster care, so I need you to give me some relatives. We place with friends at this point. So do you have a brother or sister or aunt's uncle? Adam, does Adam? Does Adam, okay? Adam. No, they're not.

Investigation there has to go to your head. No. So, hey, can we go? Adam, go! Adam, stop. Adam, stop, stop. They said with family. No.

Your dad. My dad cannot watch it. You guys can go. Or I can leave and he can watch them. You guys need to leave. Go. And I just live with her for, until the investigation. You need to leave.

We can't leave. We can't leave now. Yes. He wasn't here. He can take them. No, you can't leave with the child. Adam, stop. You're stopping and you're scaring the baby.

You're here in my baby. Get the f*** out of my house. I don't go. Can that word? I'm sorry. We need to sit down and have a civilized. No, you need to leave. Adam, just stop.

Adam. I told you guys, if you think you're taking my kid, you guys can go. I will leave. No. You can have him. They need to leave. No, because they'll take him. I'm not asking you nicely.

I'm not talking. I told you guys when he came to house and then I'm not. If you guys think you're taking my kid or asking my kid to go anywhere. Like why we're trying to figure out a family number. I do not have any family members. We have no family. That she was, I was not here. Why is my kid after me when I'm his spirit?

She was the only one here. Well, that's what's going to happen. She leaves going to go stay. with Shana. Shana. Okay, right there. The baby's sitting here. So there's the situation you guys can go.

Well, we're not leaving until it's started out. I just told you what's going to happen. No, it's not fine. I told them when they came in the house. I let them in nicely and I told them on day one. So I'll live with Shana until it's over night. You guys are lying all you. That's why I don't trust anyone you shuckers.

I didn't think anybody's lives you at this point. Yeah, well, you kind of did because I asked, I told you specifically. Did I not, you know when you guys walked in the door? I said, if you think you're going to do anything with my kid, you better bring the SWAT team. That's exactly what I said. And I'm sticking to it. So you guys need to leave. and that you have to take him out.

I can't be here. Let's talk about this, Adam. I'll just call. No, that's not what it works. We need to sit down and figure out of my house. I paid bills here. Do you guys come pay my rent? No, so you can leave.

Now that it asks you 15 times. Adam, stop. They're letting him stay with you. I am leaving. And just call. But he needs to call them. Right. I will calm as soon as your head's going through the back of my door.

You can sit and relax. I'm relaxed as soon as you go off my door. You can talk through the door, but I don't want you to my house no more. Can't he? Just take him and I leave. I can't leave a child here with him in the creation. Because I'm pissed off because you guys are... Adam just stop.

Adam just stop right now. I'm calm as soon as they leave. Stop. My God. I can't help it, Burson. You know it. Well. You want him here? My God, they're freaking out.

Marissa and Adam are having very different reactions to their son being removed from their home. Although Adam's feelings are valid and many people in this situation would feel angry, his outburst is clearly upsetting the baby, and he doesn't seem to recognize that. Marissa, on the other hand, is notably calm about their entire situation. This is rather unusual, as most parents would be quite upset about having their child taken. especially if they didn't do anything wrong. This may be an act on her part. She may think that she needs to appear relaxed

because if she is explosive like Adam, it will just look like she acted that way with the child she babysat. And there's nothing anymore. You guys can go bring a dog in here, do whatever the fuck you want to do. But my kids stay in here. With these memories fresh in her mind,

Detective Holtz is unrelenting in her interview with Marissa. Heather deserves to know what happened. I know. I am true. I am. I don't know what happened. I promise. I understand that things get frustrating,

especially with you being pregnant and having a child of your own. They weren't frustrating. I promise you that. Marissa is likely trying to bolster her statements by stating, I promise you that. When someone is being deceptive, they will try really hard to sell you on their story, whereas someone who's being honest doesn't need to go to such links. Marissa may not have been comfortable enough with her answer about how the kids weren't frustrating,

likely because it was a lie and she did find them to be frustrating. So she needed to prop her claim up with a promise to make it sound more convincing. This theory is backed up by Adam's statements to Officer Cole back in the hotel room. So you get home? What time? Seven? 637, somewhere in that area. And what's going on in the apartment when you get home? The kids are all sleeping.

The topic then shifts to Jathan, who Marissa also babysat. He doesn't play with much. He's quiet kid. I shouldn't say quiet. If you look at him wrong, he starts crying. Lately he's been getting used to us. Then take me through the rest of the next few hours until you guys decided to come. over here we went to McDonald's came home and who went to McDonald's all of you all of us the three kids in the backseat and which McDonald's the one by the courthouse okay

then came home who picked him up out of the back and play and put him into the car or I picked him up and put him in there okay absolutely normal to mean and what is normal As soon as you pick them out, he whines and stuff. So he was making noise and... Yeah, making noise and... Open his eyes at all? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, crying and everything else.

Adam describing Heather's kids in such negative terms is concerning. Referring to a two-month-old baby as whiny is especially unusual because it's normal for a baby that young to cry frequently. It's also possible that being overly critical of the children is a misguided attempt to protect Marissa. Back in the hallways, way. Marissa attempts to explain why she and Adam fled to the hotel. I got a little money from a car accident and I wanted to go swimming and stuff, but by the time she picked the kids up.

And I wanted to go in a hot tub, but I don't think I came when I was pregnant. I was pregnant. What's the real reason you're here? No, that is the real reason. I'm serious. Nobody who lives in this town checks into a hotel at 9.50 p.m. after a baby died in their apartment. I don't know. I didn't know he died. And that's also a lie because she texted you and told you that he died. My phone's off. No, it's not.

Yes, it is. No, it's not. I'll show you my phone. How do you think we found you? It's obvious that Marissa's story isn't adding up, but the question is, what exactly could she be hiding? Marissa is likely keenly aware that with her previous child of investigation, she looks incredibly suspicious right now. Even if Benson's death was just a heartbreaking accident, her history with kids makes it hard to trust her. Could she and Adam have fled to the hotel because of this?

I'm serious. Now cut the crap, Marissa. This is the third time we've had a discussion with you about a child, an infant in your care, and now one is dead. One is dead. Hey, I did nothing to them. Then who did? No one. He was fine. Did Adam do something to him? No, no one did anything to him. He was fine. Babies don't just die.

Marissa keeps sniffing and scrunching up her face as if she's crying. However, it doesn't appear that there are any tears falling. She's likely trying to give off the appearance that she's upset, but she's not a good actress, and it comes off very disingenuous. He was fine. Babies don't just die. I would not kill a baby. I'm sure you didn't mean to, Marissa.

Sometimes it's not what you do, Marissa. It's sometimes what you don't do. And maybe there was something you just didn't do tonight. I left him alone for him. I didn't kill him. Was it an accent? Did you leave him alone? I left him in the pack and play after we got off,

after we got back in from our side. Was he okay? He didn't make any noise. I have that video. monitor thing I didn't kill him I promise you're gonna die. I would never get a baby. So what happened when you came back outside? I just used the video baby monitor and... He went back inside and checked on you.

Huh? You went back inside and he was in the back of the play. Mm-hmm. I used the baby monitor and when he like makes the noise it will, you can hear it. it. And I didn't hear anything. So I didn't kill him. At what point did you realize that you just dead? I don't know. He's dying in the back.

Marissa shrugging in response to Captain Graham's questions are huge red flags that she was involved. Someone who was innocent would readily be able to provide clear answers for the questions. Like I said, there is things that you commit, things that you do, and sometimes it's a result of things that you do. It's all the things that we don't do, bad things happen, and we know that we have to happen. When did you know, Marissa? I'm going to kill them. I know. We know. Accidents happen. I used to. I thought that baby monitor thing would be fine, so I didn't check on them.

How long? It's okay. Oh, my God. We can talk through this. I could get some tissue. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Sometimes things happen, but we need to know the truth and we're all, okay? I just did check on.

They have a baby monitor, but I didn't kill them. The detectives know that most suspects are more comfortable admitting to an accident rather than intentional harm, and Marissa is no exception. She's latched on to the scenario, likely because she thinks she won't get in as much trouble. While there's every chance that this may be the real truth, There are still some parts of Marissa's story that aren't making sense, and as Holtz and Graham are about to discover, Marissa knows a lot more than she's letting on.

So how long was it that you didn't check her? So start over. It was like after before. Did you know that? But I didn't kill them. I know. Oh, my God. How did you know?

Huh? How did you know? Just because it was been that. Well, he does sleep that long. I don't know, he felt cold. And I was scared. My boyfriend wasn't there and everything, so I'm I'm sure.

I'm sure it's scary. How did you find him? How was he laying? I put him on his belly. And how did you find him? It was like just on his belly. Where was his face? in the, like this face down.

Could you, I was trying to, so if this is his face, and this is his back, and you put him like this, and you didn't find his head turned anyway, it was just straight down? I think it was. Was there anything coming out of his mouth? No. And he felt cold then.

And that was before Adam got home. Mm-hmm. Who picked him up out of the pack and played and put him into the car? I picked him up and put him in there. Okay. Absolutely, no, I'm on the moon. The fact that Marissa can't seem to clearly remember how Benson's head was positioned when she found him is a red flag, as this is something that she should be able to remember.

If she walked in and the baby's face was straight down into the bed, this is something that would trigger alarm bells and would likely stand out in her memory. But that baby monitor was like almost $100. And like when they make any noise, you can hear it. And that has like the camera thing. So you're saying that didn't work? No, it worked. It worked.

Yeah. Left them alone for too long. Okay. Went to McDonald's? No, I brought him back. Or did you put clothes on them? Did you put a snowsuit on him? I put a snowsuit and he had on.

And Adam didn't notice. Did he put dead? She probably just thought he was sleeping. Did you check for a pulse? Did you see if you... What did you think was going to happen when Heather came to pick them up? Did you think she wasn't going to notice or... Oh, yeah.

Yeah, she was or wasn't going to notice. She was going to notice. Did you try to do anything to revive? No, I don't know how to do that. It helped me understand. Discovered her. Did she call? Because I was scared and my boyfriend wasn't there.

I am my baby taken. By this point, Marissa has mentioned several times how she was scared, but she doesn't express any concern for Benson or how his mother is feeling now. Marissa appears to be very egocentric and is only thinking about the baby's death in terms of how it affects her. We do have an arrest warrant for you based on your other child abuse. So we're going to be taking you into custody. I smoke a cigarette. Sure.

Thank you. We're going to... Although it seems like detectives are getting the truth out of Marissa, there is one major problem. Her story isn't matching up with Adams. According to Marissa, Benson was dead before Adam ever got home, and Adam was none the wiser. However, Adam is claiming that not only did he pick Benson up and get him loaded into the car,

but supposedly Benson was crying and whining during this. One of them is lying. and it's up to the police to figure out which one of them it is. Okay, Adam, here's what I need the explanation for. We know why you guys came over here. I'm my children's, on my life. We know Marissa's received messages on her phone, letting her know. The audio is redacted here, but the officer informs Adam that Benson is deceased.

Come on now. I swear to God, I did not know this. Yes. No, I swear I didn't. So? I swear, I didn't know. Marce's phone is in here somewhere. I didn't know.

I swear. Heather has my phone number. She never, not once. So I see your phone. This is my phone, yes. Where's Maris's phone? I don't know. I can call it.

I can call it to find it. That's right. And then you guys come over here. You're leaving shortly after Heather leaves. Another reason we came here is the sister's supposed to be getting her kids tonight for the night. So we figured we'd come get it

and she can just take the room tomorrow. So there's going to be an autopsy tomorrow that's going to tell us a lot more than what we know right now about the cause of death. and if things don't add up. Right now, I'm seeing a lot of red flags about why you guys came over here. No, I... There appears to be two options here.

He's either telling the truth about part of what happened, meaning he did get Benson out of the pack and play, but he knew the child was dead. Or he's lying about being the one to get Benson out of the pack and play because he thinks this will protect Marissa from getting in trouble. Accidents happen, but there needs to be some sort of explanation. That has to come from one of you, too. I don't know.

I mean, we see babies that's kind of a betting issue that they suffocate accidentally. I've seen children that were given too much medication because they were too fussy, too whiny, and so the caregiver was trying to get them to sleep or, you know. Officer Cobb is offering up more acceptable reasons for why Benson may have died. He's being careful not to portray Marissa as being a cold-blooded killer because he knows that could make Adam shut down from the conversation. However, if he can sow a seat of doubt in Adam's mind about how it could have been an unfortunate accident,

Adam may be more willing to provide information that could be helpful to the investigation. Can I ask her? He was probably scared. No, he didn't know. He don't know. What would he have to be scared of home, Marissa? That I'm going to get in trouble or go to.

jail. Yeah, he doesn't know. Why would he be covering up for you if he doesn't know that you did anything wrong? Remember we talked about being honest? I know. You know. I'll freak out where she said they're going to list. So I have been here going to see us tomorrow. But you know what's going on, right? This is going on. Oh, I was out. What did you tell me? She got, I'm when he got there? No, when you guys were going to McDonald's.

Good night, he got him out of the house. And he was making noise, he said several times we asked and clarified that with you, right? Yeah. Is that the truth? Yeah, he was busting stuff when we left. We just don't want the situation complicated by lies. Obviously, we're all just trying to figure out what happened. No.

And Marissa's made some admissions. to some things, but there's just some little things that aren't matching up with what you're telling us and what you're telling us. I just don't know. I don't remember. I get them out of the bedroom or did you or when you went to my knowledge. I don't know. I did. I mean, I just don't remember. Adam's claim of I don't remember is a selective memory statement, which can sometimes be legitimate or could be a sign of possible deception. It's possible that Adam used deductive reasoning to figure out that Marissa was under suspicion for something related to Benson. He likely didn't know what Marissa was being accused of, but it was clearly related to her care of other children, so he decided in the moment to lie in the hopes that he could protect her from further trouble. However, he might be less willing to protect her from trouble after he learns what she's been hiding from him.

So, Adam, what she has admitted to? out there while we were talking in here is that while you were out hunting she already knew likely suffocated and that did she tell me of course she's probably freaking about that and even when you came home and went to McDonald she's saying she knowingly put and into the car leading you to believe he's alive and well and he was dead all that time and do you understand we're not We're not here to argue with you, fight with you or nothing. We want what's best for the kids. And I think you do too.

I do. And I even think Marissa does. But she has a poor way of doing it, I guess. You can ask anybody that you live around. She gets, everybody gets in a mood where they don't want bothered or whatever. But normally when she, that happens, you know, she'll take. tell me and I'll take care of her, take care of it, and she'll go to the shower and what she's got to do.

So every time this happens, and you know, no, no, no, no. And that's why I told her. I didn't fall in her election in any case. As Adam waits at the hotel to deal with CPS, Marissa agrees to go back to her apartment with Detective Holtz in order to demonstrate how she found Benson.

If Detective Holtz can clearly see how Benson was positioned, she may be able to determine if his death was the result of an accident, SIDS, or something far more sinister. We have these down just because it makes it a little more realistic as far as, like, facial shape and things like that. What I want you to do is just, like, walk through exactly how you put him down. Okay. Okay.

Yeah, so I just put him in here, and then I sent him around, and so I put him in here, and put the blue blanket on. So you, when we were at the hotel, you were talking about, like, his face, was to the side a little bit. Yep. Can you show me exactly how his head was? I know his body probably is kind of... Right, this isn't completely anatomically correct,

but if you could just show it, like, how his base was. I realized that his body was flat, and it wouldn't turn up like that, but it was too... Was it to that side specifically? So to his... I agree so, yeah. Although Marissa's been laughing and smiling throughout this demonstration,

she's likely still feeling some anxiety. If we look at her hands, we can see that they're almost closed into fists, which indicates that she's feeling tense. Most caregivers would be traumatized by having a baby die in their care. Having to reenact their last actions with the infant would likely be difficult and emotional. In stark contrast to this, Marissa appears to be completely unaffected. However, this image of her clenched hands may provide a glimpse into her inner stress. Did he have a knock? No, no.

Okay. Just the receiving blanket and then his blanket. So the receiving blanket was already folded up and laid down before you came in here? When did you, when would you have done that? Um, I think I did it. I laid him on the couch. And when you found him, exact same position or was he different? Um, I think he is in the same position.

Okay. I need you to really try hard to remember because this is important. I know. Could he have been in a different position? But was he still in the middle? Yeah, Nova was in the middle. I think he was in the same position. Based on her frequent responses of I think so.

I think I, um, I think. It seems like Marissa is making things up as she goes. Okay, so walk me through how you determine that he's not alive. Because I picked him up and he was really cold. How did you pick him up? Um, I just went like this. Okay. And what did he look like? He was just cold.

Marissa is completely unemotional. Once again, she fails to mention any of her thoughts and feelings when she discovered Benson was dead, which could be a sign that Marissa is being deceitful and hiding something from the detective. The question is, what exactly is she hiding? And then what did you do? Lay them down, put his snow suit on. Where did you lay him down? Oh, I think I laid him on the floor.

So I have put his car seat in there. And I grabbed his snow stuette later on the floor. I put him in the snow stoop and then put him in his car seat with his blanket. Okay. And then where did you put the car seat? Um, I think I left it in there with the door open or shut? With the door open. I left him in there, put the door open.

And then, um, Adam got here, and then we got here and then we just, Yeah. Leave him in the car seat and his snowsuit there. Mm-hmm. And you laid him on the floor, but you don't know, CPR, no attempts to call anyone or research anything online. Does he see if there's anything maybe stuck in his mouth or? Mm-hmm. No, okay.

And you said no nook. No no. Okay. As Detective Holtz is listing off logical responses to finding Benson dead, Marissa simply nods with indifference, perhaps implying that there was another reason that she didn't try to investigate Benson's unresponsiveness. Do you always leave the baby minor on or how do you guys? Just when I have it back there, we just got it on Tuesday. So how did you...

So you had it back there, you had the baby minor on or no? Mm-hmm. Okay, and then what did you... Was it facing there? Where were you sitting? Yeah, I was facing right there and I was right here. Okay, so then when did you turn it off? Um, after they left and we left. Okay, how did you turn it off?

What do you do my favorite is turn it on and turn it off? So it's tries you to know that your baby matter is unplugged? Is it? Yeah. I might have unplug it too, because you have to charge these, but I did have it on and everything. Why would you unplug the camera? What? The camera.

Because, oh, I stopped using it. When I stopped using it, I just turned, unplugged it. and I just turned, unplug it. I did have it on and everything. You're sure. I'm sure. You just turn it off. I promised on everything.

I had it on. Marissa making promises are likely attempts to bolster her lies. Having gathered all of the relevant information at the apartment, Marissa is officially arrested and spends the rest of the night in jail. Although it seemed to Marissa was telling detectives everything she knew about Benson's death, his autopsy came back with shocking results. prompting Captain Graham and Detective holds to bring Marissa in for one more interview. There you go.

Hi. Hey. Well, as we discussed, I attended the office. So I just want to follow up with you and, okay, and give us an application like that. Great. So, but I'm doing your rights again. This room setup is not ideal for an interrogation, as there's a huge table between Marissa and the detectives. It would be better if there was no table at all

so that the detectives could observe Marissa's entire nonverbal communication instead of having half of her body being hidden from view. I can say, I promised you I did not do nothing to him. Promise. You ain't not. No, he did not fall. Did he roll and tumble just a little bit of a little bit of something? Not that I've seen.

I did not do anything to him. Marissa uses a qualification phrase when she says, not that I've seen, which gives her an escape in the future, allowing her to blame her faulty memory or say that she didn't see what had actually happened. Based upon what the doctor saw, what genocide is that the child did not die

as a result of the candidate. I'm hoping that based upon your relationship and based upon the genuine love that I know that and children, it's important that Heather knows what... Yeah, I didn't do anything to him. Because something happened in that apartment. You're the only adult there. I know.

Based upon what you tell me, it couldn't have been Adam. He couldn't have been. Or could it? No. But Adam came back at some point, and you've seen, and we've seen Adam get upset. get upset, really at the snap of a finger. And are you sure that you have to do something to this?

The thing is, Mercer says that science doesn't lie. I know. There's absolutely no doubt. You like to think that you're not some cold-blooded person. I'm not. And I want to believe that you do generally love children. I see it. I see it with you in person. I see it with the reason that you're hearing. with me, you do that you're scaring.

And I'm sure you had a bond with sent something because he's been watching. Fuck in my head. I would never, I would never, I can't never kill anyone in my life. Let's not even use that word. As Marissa gets emotional for the first time in the interrogation, she uses the word kill. It seems that what may have triggered her tearfulness is when the detective started talking about how Marissa loves kids and may have had a bond with Benson. Earlier in the interrogation, Marissa seemed to be avoiding the,

the word kill, instead saying that she didn't do anything. Sometimes these non-specific statements are used by deceptive individuals because it allows them to dance around having to be more specific. An innocent person is more likely to be straightforward and use necessary language because they want to ensure it's clear what they're denying. A deceptive person may prefer to avoid using such explicit language because it means they will have to look the detectives in the eye and lie. It may have been to fall, but something happened, and it was not that he went to sleep on it soft. It was not.

So let's get over that. Right, I know. I did not feel anything too. And what happened? I don't know. Something terrible happened. And you were taking care of them. And it's important for Heather.

It's important for you. And it's going to look better for you, quite frankly, if you're sending it. I messaged you one opportunity. I don't believe, but I could never do anything like that's with any kids. That's why I don't want to think that it was intentional if you were an answer. I see you have maybe more than I can imagine a lot going on. You know, you have this other case that was out there which, you know, is a felony offense is pretty serious.

And you have other children that have been taken away. you know you're on the road to recovering from syndrome addiction and sometimes the weights of life can become too much to bear and you see yourself acting without even thinking without even thinking just reacting in ways that are outside of your character and I wonder is something like that happened on Thursday where you know extra pussy because he's got some sores and just not receiving the feeling well and something like that. No, I'm never, I can never, I mean, the love kid's way too much, I can never know.

I hear you say that, and I want to believe you like it said, but there has to be an explanation and it's not what you're supposed to. Suspects may be more willing to confess if they feel like the detective truly understands them and their situation. Graham and Holtz are both doing a really good job of relating to Marissa and being empathetic. And the read technique, it's important for investigators to appear non-judgmental, is that creates a dynamic in which the suspect may be more likely to open up. Not when I was around he did fall. He hurt badly. I want to believe that it was an accident and you're not a monster.

And that must be explained. Well, that must have been an accident. So like I said, I just fed them, birth them, changed them. Put him in the beach. And what he could have hit his head? He hit his head. He hit his head. I don't know how he would have hit his head.

Who could have hit him in the head? I don't know. Could he have fallen? No, there's a road. And he didn't just fall without anybody around and nobody noticed anything and then he put himself back. And I don't have this one opportunity. By increasing her proximity to Marissa, Detective

Holtz is increasing the pressure for her to confess. I don't know, maybe on the couch, you're the plaintiff. So I'm like the hard part of the pouch. Or like the arm part. What's it? Maybe. Maybe. The doctor's had a little bit?

I don't know because I could never. Show me how you're playing. I don't know. I just put them on the couch. Well, I don't think I had any of this. Yeah. You're going to call me your children. I need it to be 100%.

100% think you. Great. Oh, maybe the couch crime or maybe the plaything, I don't know. What would you just be on? Just like that. I did throw my own, no, I can never do that.

You're thrown? No, I could never. Please play some house couch. Neither holds nor Graham have suggested that Benson could have been thrown, so it's highly suspicious that Marissa suddenly introduces this new idea. when new language is introduced by the suspect,

such as what Marissa has just done here, detectives will likely see it as a big red flag that the suspect has been hiding something. Marissa is still refusing to tell Detective Holtz the truth, so Holtz decides to play into Marissa's emotions and ask her how she would feel if it was her own child who died. I think of how it was terrible that would be. They know, and not.

She all will happen. I am lost to life. Apparently, Melissa, in the monsters. She can't even experience. explain what he did. Even if it was an accident, please. You have to help me tell Heather. After this desperate emotional appeal from Detective Holtz, Marissa sits in complete silence

for nearly two minutes before finally opening up a bit. During this long pause, Marissa is likely trying to decide what she's going to say. Should she stick with her story about how she doesn't know? Should she confess the truth? or should she admit to something in between? She may be weighing the pros and cons of each option in her head. Most people care what others think of them, at least to some extent. So hearing the detective say that she will be thought of as a monster

may help motivate Marissa to tell the truth. I didn't put him down to her, but I didn't kill him or anything. You didn't have to him. I don't think you meant so. Could never. Where did you put him down to her and how, troning? Where? Give me a play pen.

Which playpen? Your guys is the one you guys have. There's only thing I could think of... How many times? One? Why? You're sorry? Swans.

Probably. The only thing I could think of. I could never... I could never. I could never. So I don't know. I promise. We keep saying I could never, but you know what?

You did. You did. I did not... That child had multiple injuries to his head. Not one time and it's not from a plate hand. I don't know where he could have got it from. I did not do it. Everything.

Yes, no, you're the truth. No, you're not. Yes, I am. Yes, I am. Absolutely not unless it was harder than it. It is not harder than it. It would have happened more than one time. You had no.

Because it's more than one time. Just once, but what the time are? I don't know. I didn't think so. And when you did that, they didn't stop reading. I don't remember. You don't remember.

That's pretty significant. I don't remember the child. When a suspect claims to have a memory failure, such as claiming not to remember such a major detail, this can be a sign of deception. Marissa saying that she can't recall if Benson died right after she put him down roughly is a major red flag,

as most people would remember such a significant event. How were you holding on to his midsection and putting him down? Put him in there in the midsection. Did you let him go? Was it like this and then you just let him go? And so he kind of fell as well? Or did you have hold of?

And he went like this, or was it done? Yeah, I think so. It was like this. And then he, then you take him, this is the pack and plane, and you just throw him in the packet plate. Was it like a foot or two drop? I don't know, my foot or whatever. Well, if you're standing, this is the back and plate,

it's the top of the back and plate, and you're standing right here, was it from up here? Yeah, like my, yeah. The pack and play that you showed us is one of those that has like an insert word up a little bit. Mm-hmm. Are you sure it was that pack-and-play or was it the one in the spare role? No, that's that one. And it has the man on the scene.

So you were above the pack-and-play and dropping them with sports? Was it, so? Was it been a thrill? Um, you some. You're frustrated. Right. I'm scared. So, I sure.

You tell me, okay? I need you to prove that you're being honest. What I want you to do is tell me exactly what you did. And if it matches up with the injuries that I saw, then I know that we've got a caring person here who is sorry for what she did. I am. I'm frustrated. I'm sorry. Frustration.

Go in. Is it your bedroom? Mm-hmm. The pack of the place is right there next to the bed. Mm-hmm. And were you standing right next to the pack and play? We were standing by the door and just threw him in there? No, standing next to the pack, but...

Were your eyes touching a pack and play like this, or was the pack and play that far away? Oh, no, not like that. So... Yeah. Came shown? Just throw them in. Just throw them in.

Mm. Was it with all your force, all your strength? You just threw them in there? I don't know. I think so. You think so? So you, with all your force, just like that? as hard as you quit.

Not really as hard, but... Marissa is still vague in her description, but Graham getting up is important here because it makes Marissa have to demonstrate what she did. Graham clearly dramatized the throw from a very far distance, which forced Marissa to have to clarify that she didn't throw Benson from such a far off distance, but she did, in fact, throw him.

For a couple minutes, and then what else happened? Some multiple injuries, right? Yeah, I'm probably, I promise you, I do not know where he got the under injuries. I promise. Did you grab him by a hand by eight months? Oh? That's why I asked him, how were you holding him when you threw him into the pack and play

because he has some of the injuries? Right. I said he has some broken bones. Jesus. I don't think he must do it that hard. Did he tumble a little bit when he was... when he was, when you threw him in the pack and plate, like did he roll? No.

Because I could see if you're walking down the hall when you come in the room, you're a little upset and frustrating, you throw him like that, I could see that he might tumble a little bit in the pack and play and maybe get lodged up against something. I wasn't there. So help me understand in my mind what happened when you threw a girl. I know. What happened? I was just frustrated and there in the pack and play.

And what did you see happen when he landed in the peck and foot? What happened to his body? Mm-hmm. Stay in one position, or did he roll or... I think he hit the side, but that's about it. Part of him hit the side. The head? And was it the corner where it's hard or was it...

Yeah, it was a corner. Which corner? I don't know. One of the corners. So was he kind of then just curled? up in the corner? I don't think so. I think his head was down. So you throw him in, tumbles into the corner of the packet plate?

Mm-hmm. Is he face down at that point or is he face up or is he to the side? Yes, face down. So you throw him down on his back, he tumbles a little bit into the corner of the pack and plate, and his face is down. Mm-hmm. You pick him up again and throw him down, or what do you do? No. What would you do?

I just picked him up and put him in the middle. Even while she confesses to throwing him into the pack and play and then rearranging his body, Marissa doesn't appear to have any remorse for what she did to Benson. You throw him in there. He tumbles into the corner. You had said that he cried for a couple minutes. Yeah. No, you're saying.

No? No. No. Did you just stand there for a couple minutes? It's him or? Hey, just. Well, maybe not a couple minutes. Maybe I'm a minute or less.

Do you stay in the room with them or go out before you put it back on the stomach? And I stayed in the room and just looked at them while I was friend. Yeah. Maybe you were in shock. What did I just do? Yeah. This couple minutes thing is confusing me here. Well, I was in shock of what I just happened to him, what I did to him. I was frustrated.

You're frustrated and what? and what shocked you was the fact that you threw him into the pack of play very hard. Maybe not with all of your strength, but you were really frustrated. And he tumbles into the corner, maybe hits his head on the corner, and then you stand there and you cries for a little bit. No, I just tried for a couple seconds. Couple seconds. And then you take him from the corner.

He's no longer crying. And you just sit him face down. Mm-hmm. Why'd you move on if you wasn't crying? I was scared? Did he die that at that time? Oh, you not? So they wasn't doing anything?

Yeah, it was. Did you try to do something to bring it back to life? Try to go in his mouth because that's how I know what to do. I'm not speaking about you. Because I could see you trying to undo what has just happened, right? Yeah, it's right. And that tells me when you go. about who you are, Mrs. said, yeah, I made a mistake here, but I don't want this trying to die.

Right. If I would have to die, if I would not have to do Steve's power, I would have not, but it's blue in his mouth. I don't know how to do C-Path. Although Marissa now claims to have tried to revive Benson, she laughed and denied trying to revive him at all. Try to see P.R. No attempts to call anyone or research anything online to see there, really. Did you see if there's anything maybe stuck in his mouth or? This discrepancy in her story indicates that she might be pretending to have tried to save Benson's life

in order to not look like a monster, since at this point, she's confessed and likely knows that she's in for some major consequences. Thank you. I'm frustrated. Although Marissa is sobbing, this may be in response to the consequences of her actions, which she knows are coming, not for what she did. I was scared to tell 9-1. The other kids. Yeah, so I was scared.

The reason she didn't call 911 is likely selfish. She was afraid of being apprehended. She may have thought that the best option was to cover up the crime, even going so far as to keep the secret from her boyfriend. I don't. Not making an offense because I have court for this feeling right in November first. She... No.

I'm sorry, I was scared and frustrating. But she gets frustrated too with them. Sure. Yeah, she even said that. No. Every parent gets frustrated. Every parent gets frustrated. That's what's going to happen.

Eventually, you're going to see the target. You're going to see the time. The lunch. Back came to do you happen. you talk through this with the district between south of me. It's kind of not trying to be appropriate. Rejection. I mean, you have to know that this for one thing.

I understand your story and that does mean a lot. We need to make sure this memory happens. Really? So let's see any other questions. Once again, Marissa shows that she's putting herself first by asking for a lower bond. She also appears to be surprised to find out that she will be charged. It's almost as if she expected that. if she just said sorry, they would let her go. Marissa is failing to see the seriousness of the

crime and even attempts to deflect responsibility from herself to Heather. While sitting in jail awaiting trial, Marissa began to form relationships with a variety of pen pals, promising that she would love them, be physically intimate with them, and move in with them after prison in exchange for these pen pals giving her money. In a report written by Detective Holtz, it was noted that Marissa was especially good at manipulating people and was able to juggle all of these relationships while also manipulating Adam into believing that she wasn't cheating on him so he would also give her money. Marissa also occupied her time in jail by begging the judge to give her a lighter bail. A letter to the judge written by Marissa reads,

This Marisa Tiet sort and I want a bond reduction because this is crazy that don't get half signature bond and lowered like really I'm not a monster or whatever. I love kids, and I'm a mom to five kids, plus I'm pregnant now with my sixth kid. That's right. Not only does she not grasp the severity of her crime against Benson, but she tries to claim that she's a loving and successful mother to her children, even though most of those children were removed from her care. According to Detective Holtz, Marissa believed she would be getting a light sentence for Benson's

murder, as she and her attorney were planning on claiming that she wasn't guilty due to brain damage caused by her extended substance abuse. Things didn't go the way Marissa had hoped, however, and she was instead sentenced to 37 years for Benson's death and another three years for the injuries caused to the child who had supposedly fallen off her couch just two months prior to Benson's death.