EXPLORE WITH US - Detective Realizes The Victim Is Actually The Killer: The Case of Samantha Wohlford

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

Detective realizes the VICTIM is actually the KILLER...The following podcast episode is not legal advice. Do not rely on the information in this presentation without speaking to a licensed attorney.No one discussed in these videos has been formally diagnosed by EWU and our psychological analysis is based on the general behaviors and traits of the people discussed.

I got him. You got it. You stay out here, go. You'll keep sitting on here. Yeah, see the body. See there? Yep. I think they're locking your butt what I think.

I think you've been lying to me this whole thing. You did get them right. I think you're a liar at what I think. Definitely did. I don't give a dad. You've got the freaking box. You've got the dead gun. Man, I'm telling you.

All I know is the guy told me that they were suspects in the murder case. The first thing that pulled in my head was that . gun and I don't know what the fuck is going on, but I want to no. This is Samantha Wolford, a young mother, a wife, and an aspiring YouTuber turned ruthless killer. Hey guys, I was asked to do video 15 weird things about me.

She has arrived at the sheriff's office for routine questioning after her husband was kidnapped during an alleged home invasion. It was an unthinkably sadistic plot. The abduction of a young father and a feudal race against the. the clock to find him before it was too late. Rewind approximately six years. Samantha, a single mother of 10-month-old twin girls, was just 19 years old when she met 23-year-old Ernie Ibera Jr.,

who was known to friends as Dagan. The two began a relationship which soon turned to marriage, and eventually the couple had three children together. Although they were doing their best to get by in the small town of Mount Pleasant, located in Titus County, Texas, The relationship was already starting to crumble. It was no secret that the couple had their problems.

However, it ended up escalating to a point of no return, and no one had anticipated things would end in such a shockingly tragic way. Tice, what's your emergency? I have a home invasion. My niece is tied up. I am at the verge of untying my niece at this particular moment. Okay, she's tied up. She is tied up and gagged.

And gagged? Is there anybody else there? Where are the kids? We have five small infants asleep. Five small infants asleep? Yes, ranging from seven to one. Seven to one years old? Yes, ma'am.

Does she know? Where is they? Samantha, did you know who does such take so? Can I talk to her? Is she able to speak? Yes, ma'am. Hello? Hi, Samantha.

I know you're upset, but I'm going to ask you a couple questions. Do you need EMS? No, they didn't do anything to be the hit me wife. She's advising no, they only hit her once. Okay. If I just asked my aunt who was bruising or anything, and she said, no, they hit me in the face. Okay. I hit you in the face?

Yeah, they had me tied up, and they drove me down the stairs to face my husband. And when my husband would have to face me, they hit me in the face. Like, backhand slapped me. And so he looked at me, men, and they said, I thought that would get your attention. And I want you to stare at this woman. Do you want us to kill her? And he said, no. And they said, then tell us the truth.

And he said, I don't know anything. When someone gives way too many details on a 911 call, this can be a warning sign that they may not be telling the truth. The purpose of a 911 call is to get help immediately. As Samantha is not currently in danger anymore, her primary focus should be on getting help finding her husband. Instead of requesting that officers be sent right away to search for him, she's telling an elaborate story about what supposedly happened. There's no sense of urgency in getting her husband found. If someone is lying on a call to emergency services, they may feel the need to offer up all these additional details because they want to support their lie. Samantha's love for acting isn't a secret after all.

I've always wanted to be an actress. I think it is so much fun. I've been extras in movies. I've had small parts in short films and I've done plays. I think it is so much fun and it is so beautiful. It is one of the most amazing forms of art ever to be able to express yourself that way. I think it's amazing. Members of the Titus County Sheriff's Office respond to the crime scene shortly after 2 a.m.

Immediately an investigation into the violent home. invasion and kidnapping of Ernie Ibera Jr. is launched. The following footage is raw body cam footage, recorded by Corporal Chris Durant and Deputy Ed Godoy, just minutes after the twisted crime took place. Sheriff's office. Are you still talking with Sheriff? You don't know. I have to stay here. She said she's still picked her a hot off. She said she still had a few questions for me before I can get off the car. Let me have it and I'll take care of it and you talk to them.

So walk me through what happened? I don't honestly know what happened. I was able to open my eyes. Somebody grabbed me and jerked me out of the bell and slam me down on the ground and start to tie me up. Okay. They were watching them over and over and over and over and just getting fighting back and I was just letting him and and... What's your husband's man?

What's your husband's name? Ernest Iberra. Ernest Iberra? Okay. The officer is conducting a typical investigatory field interview at this point. However, these statements can be admissible in legal proceedings. The body camera footage can be reviewed by investigators and inconsistencies discovered between initial contact and later interrogation. One of them did say the name Luke, but that's it.

That was all, it's only identifying anything of God. One of them said, hey look, and they got tired, but that's the only had to find anything I've got. Samantha changing her voice to imitate the alleged intruder may be an attempt to dramatize the attack in order to make it appear more believable. Although her voice is emotional, she doesn't actually express much concern about Dagan and instead seems focused on telling the story about everything that happened to her. It's discovered that Dagan's phone was also taken by the assailants. They took his phone, but they didn't take mine.

I had my needed. Uh-huh. So I was able to. So he's got his phone? No, they have his phone. Oh, that's what I'm talking about. What's his phone number? Huh?

I need that number. Get that number. They cut my shirt off, and then after they made me stand there naked in front of him, threatening to do things to me. Mm-hmm. The guy said, I can't do it. You were outside or here. I was in the living room. He said, get you a shirt and get it quick because I'm not this type of person.

So I started rummaging through my closet. He said, get it quick. And pushed the knife against my throat. So I just grabbed whatever shirt. Okay. And put it on. Okay. But he grabbed my shirt and he started cutting it and cut it down the collar.

And then he said, what's your name? Samantha. Samantha. Wolfram. Wolfor. Where's that shirt at? Is it downstairs? What color is it?

It's gray sweater. Gray sweater? Okay. That's what I was sleeping in. Okay. Yeah, I've got the front door's been kicked in. As he dictates details of the crime scene to dispatch, Samantha handles her own urgent business.

She sends out a text message that reads as follows. Hey, hi, this is what we need to do. I need to do an emergency. phone pain on, yeah, and I've got the cell phone number. The phone service company is immediately contacted in hopes that the position of Dagan's phone can be traced and lead law enforcement to his location before it's too late. Was the spray paint already on the walls? Yeah, somebody broke in over Christmas time or over the Halloween time and did that.

He's already been out here once over this. They cut his hair off. I don't know why. That's his hair. That's his hair? Okay. And he said, And you said those are the pants you had on?

He said you're going to want something of your husband and chirped a piece of his hair off and threw it on the floor. And you said those are his pants that he had on? Yeah. What's the sweater you had on? I think that's it on the dining floor. On the chair? On the chair? Okay.

I said I got another car pulling up. Let me go see who this is. Dude, the fact that I was dialing with my nose. Hey, just stay out there for just a second for me, okay? Can I go out there? Well, let's get this checked out real quick. Because right now this is the most important thing, you know? Let's get this all figured out.

I don't see how me writing a statement is in the crucial hours of you finding my husband. It is because, I mean, this may help you trigger something. to help us, you know, know anybody in Pittsburgh. Samantha does, in fact, know someone in Pittsburgh, is it just so happens? As the deputy continues to gather information from Samantha, the corporal speaks with Samantha's mother,

Rosie and Samantha's Aunt Ginger. How you doing? This, fine. You're the one that found her? Yes, she's the one that found her. I'm the one she called. Okay. So she called you first.

She called me, bound and gagged, and then she called me. We live in Windfield. Do we have any idea where her husband is? That's what we're trying to figure it out. I'm assuming it has something to do with people that would be part of circle. That's the only thing I could possibly put together is that it had something to do with people that you. Samantha says that the intruders name someone she knows as the reason for the attack on her husband. For this person's privacy, as they were never proven to be involved in the case,

we have redacted their name throughout. Samantha will continue to bring up this person's name throughout the investigation. Samantha sends out yet another urgent text message at 3.19 a.m. reading. At this time, investigator Chris Bragg arrives at the scene, and the corporal begins to bring him up to speed. Interestingly, the investigator is immediately skeptical. They've got a pretty volatile pass, and we've arrested him before, solving her and infant.

Make sure she didn't do something to him in the state's the scene to make it look like. Something happened. The investigator is developing what's called a theory of the case. This is the same theory of the casework that a prosecutor will do in order to paint a picture of the criminal activity, linking physical evidence, statements, and circumstantial evidence to prove guilt beyond a reason. doubt.

Look down and he gets on the top of his head and they had him kneeling right here and it cut part of the tear off. After a brief search of the first floor, the corporal then guides the investigator to the staircase that leads to the bedroom where the attack began. They kick the door and I come up these stairs and get them before there. You're not able to know what's going. And that's the only part that's getting me is how do you, they would have to either be familiar with the place to be able to do all that and know where they were asleep and the babies are asleep.

Both members of the sheriff's office observed that the conditions in the home are not ideal for children to live in after viewing the area where all five children lay sleeping, though the body cam doesn't capture a clear view. Pitiful conditions. Yeah. I'm not really seeing a whole lot of blood, though, for somebody that was pistol whipped. The investigator proposes they have Samantha come upstairs. to provide more specifics.

I haven't seen anything that's all that. I don't know what's wrong with that or what possibly got himself tied to cause this that they kept saying

cause this asking for compensation $20,000. Remember this. It'll be important later on in the story. The, if you will just hold type of her, so I'm going to go get some evidence bags. I'll be right back.

I'm going to grab my camera. I'll be right back. Are you guys trying to accuse me of something? No. Her story immediately falls apart here, though Samantha's reaction is typical of someone caught in a lie. However, this is why all subjects under questioning should request counsel and refuse to answer questions. Police motives are not frequently known, though it's common to start with a large pool of suspects and eliminate them rather than start with an empty pool and try to add likely suspects.

This means you're immediately classified as a suspect or material witness until proven otherwise during the investigation phase. What kind of gun is up? A clock. Standard issued or? Can I see it? Can I see it? Can you take it out?

Yeah. Then I got to do paperwork. Really? I just was in his sea comparatively to the gun they had. I don't know guns, but the gun he had wasn't very big or his hand wasn't very small, one or the other. It fit pretty closely to his hand size. This is a very odd request, given the circumstances.

It's noteworthy that in the midst of Samantha's chit-chat with the officer, she doesn't appear to stress that her husband is missing. It's possible that this is her attempt to be friendly and distract the officers from the situation, since she may believe at this point that police may consider her a suspect. What them kept saying took someone from us, the only thing I can figure is they're saying

like, narched on someone. They said something about now he's behind bars. Time to go to bed last night. Around 11. Just a couple hours before the invasion occurred. Next time, she'll have a different answer to the question. How old your babies? One.

You got four? Five. Five. They were in there squirm in a minute ago. Hmm? Investigators are doing their thing. Samantha doesn't seem overly concerned about her children, but it seems she's already growing impatient with the investigation.

Little does she know, This is just the very tip of the iceberg. At 6.10 a.m., just a few short hours after the violent home invasion and abduction of Samantha Wolford's husband, Dagan, she arrives at the Titus County Sheriff's Office in northeastern Texas. It's here that the disturbing story will start to unfold. Samantha places a call to her mother, but displays almost no emotion during the course of the conversation. She appears very self-centered, and her behavior is quite strange for a woman whose husband's is missing.

Oh, about something to eat them something like this. This gets some gravy no sausage. This gets some gravy no sausage in French fries. Samantha gives her mother a food order over the phone. It's surprising she has an appetite at a time like this. She lays on the floor, which is very childlike and is an unexpected behavior for an adult. Samantha consistently acts like more of a high school student rather than an adult mother of five. Chris, the investigator, enters the

room. I hope he heard anything. I think it's still working a real thing. I feel like there's something he hasn't been telling me, but I don't know what. What you got to feel and tell you?

I think it's something to do with it. What do you think would be going on? I hate, and I'm usually right, and I hate that, but it has a problem. with getting involved in things that he don't need to be getting involved with. Samantha seems to be setting up a potential motive as to why the attack and kidnapping may have occurred. She continually brings up the same person in her speculations about what may have happened.

Do you think using any drugs? No. What about you? Yeah, and I can take a test right now. This is a convincing statement, which can be a red flag for possible deception. When someone is being truthful, they're more likely. likely to just provide a straightforward denial. However, when someone is lying, they often feel some anxiety about whether they will be believed

or not. So they may add on these types of convincing statements to support their lie. Have you had a plan? Do you do you? No. Never been involved in formal. It's interesting that Samantha states she's never been a drug user. However, David Smith, a former friend of both Dagan and Samantha, alleges otherwise.

Because there was one that come out of. there that drove a little silver jeep liberty. He was supposed to be something kin to her, supposedly. But I found out later from Jeremy Rule that he was her pill dealer. Needless to say, Samantha's credibility is becoming increasingly questionable. You know about what time it was when you went to me in? I looked up at the clock and it was like 12 or 1 and I was like, yeah, you've got to get to bed because you have to be up in five and a half hours.

Samantha says she and Dagan went to bed at midnight, contrary to the 11 o'clock time she gave a responding officer at the scene of the crime, as you may recall. Already, her story is beginning to change. What's your first memory of what's going on? Well, I spoke an ambulance, so it makes it a little harder for me to wake up. And I have a prescription with me if you want to see that.

But when I can't sleep, it's supposed to shut your brain off so you can go to sleep, also make it to where you can wake out fairly easy. Samantha gives two more inconsistent statements back to back. When someone gives inconsistent statements, it can be a red flag that someone is lying. After telling one lie, there are likely additional lies that must be told to support the original lie.

It can be difficult to keep track of everything they've already said, so liars may get tripped up on details and give conflicting information. It's possible that after she made the first statement about having a hard time waking up, She may have been worried about how that made her look, especially being a parent to five young children. She may be trying to backtrack because she wants to be viewed in a good light so that her story about Dagan is believed. Of course. I remember at some point it was just a little after wine. I saw the clock.

Maybe on my phone. So it's still pretty foggy because it's fairly early to wake up. I was checking a sleeping pill. Nothing adds up, considering she'd taken a prescription sleeping pill and was woken up suddenly. She shows little emotion and talks as if she's reading from a script. Individuals who've been traumatized rarely remember details in this way. Of course, this could be explained as Samantha trying to give the investigator as much information as possible in an attempt to find her kidnapped husband.

However, the fact that Samantha has repeatedly given confirmation to the investigator that he can double-check her story, such as verifying her ambient prescription suggests that Samantha is trying to preemptively dismiss any suspicions the investigator might have about her story. They said, you want a staff to kill her too? And he said, no, please don't, please don't. How are my kids? And they hit up the mouth.

Are my kids okay? They hit him in the mouth and he said we wouldn't touch a child. And it flew out of the smell. I don't know if it was a tooth or who was just spit or fly. This little kid blew out of them and smell because they had the lights on down there. And that's when they started cutting my clothes off and they could be standing in front of him naked. This part of the story seems to be fabricated. The sweater she claimed to have been wearing had no obvious cuts.

She didn't recognize the voice. I tried. I tried listening to everything. They forced him to tell me not to call the police. Maybe he said, don't call the police. And they clutched through them out with the guy and said, that's not what I said, for you to tell him. He said, please tell me what to say it again. Please just repeat it.

So they repeated it. I couldn't understand what they were saying because they were so close to his face and growling in his ear. He said, Sam, don't call the police. I don't care what happens. Don't call the police because they'll come back and they'll kill all the kids. Promise me. And he was screaming up and I was like, I'm really like. However, the five children nearby, remember.

remained asleep through all of the chaos. The police, as well as Samantha's aunt, will scrutinize this assertion later. You're talking about some money or... Yeah, he said, what do I have to do? Please don't kill me what I have to do. And he said, $20,000. You want to do what you have to do?

Can you come up with $20,000 in the next five minutes? And he's kind of laughed. What did the handgun look like? It was just black. I don't know anything about guns. You know the difference between like a revolver and an automatic? Oh, it was definitely like a police pistol. It was whatever those are.

Semi-automatics. It was small, barely bigger than his hand. You may recall that she had specific questions for the corporal at the crime scene. What kind of gun is that? What kind of gun is about? The clock. The investigator now shifts the conversation to a different aspect of routine. investigation. It could very well be that this is where things start moving in an undesirable

direction for Samantha. I tell you two weren't fussing, you weren't fighting, you didn't get out of hand, you didn't punch him, kick him, stab him, shoot him, nothing like that. I'm not going to find anything any different later once we get there because the deputies, they're out there right now, you know, basically searching your house and top the bottom for every piece of physical evidence that we can find. Anything that'll help and fight that. Sure. It could be a reddish.

flag that there appears to be a verbal and nonverbal disconnect here. She's shaking her head no while giving her permission for detectives to search her house. Partway through this statement, she switches to nodding her head yes, possibly realizing that she made a mistake. Well, that's why I want to make sure, because we're going to be checking your phone records, your family's phone records. Normally, when the police want to search something, the Fourth Amendment requires them to obtain a search warrant. Otherwise, the search is unconscionable. constitutional, and the evidence they obtain will be tossed out of court. However, the police can't obtain certain types of records without a search warrant. For example, the police could get a suspect's

call records from their phone company. Normally, this record will only show the police what numbers a person called and at what time. I think it knows true. I have to absolutely know the truth that you had no possible involvement in this whatsoever. No. Do you love her? I wouldn't have gone. heck if I didn't. What all are you willing to do to help to find him? Whatever it takes. Do you don't know where he is?

No, I don't. I wish I did. You're positive. I have absolutely no idea where he's at. No, I don't. Do you know who you can call the phone where he's in? The only one I can think is because they kept bringing him up. Other than that, you know.

I have no idea. None. Her palms go up in the rogatory position, which indicates that she may lack confidence in her statement. Palms up while making a declarative statement is seen as a big red flag because it suggests the person is pleading with the other person to believe them and may be unsure in what they're saying. He doesn't have any friends. I don't go out much. The one friend that I do really have, lives in Silver Springs, like drama. I don't like having outside chaos, so I just stay home. I'm just to stay home.

Samantha continues to attempt to steer the investigation towards the same person she named. She portrays herself simply as a stay-at-home mom. However, her homemaking skills seem to be lacking based on the condition of her house. As the police observed, the environment in the home is obviously not fit for children. In a report later drafted by investigator Chris Bragg, who is currently questioning Samantha, vivid details of the terrible conditions in the Iberra household are laid out. The rooms are unclean and unsanitary with trash, urine, feces, clothes, and dirty diapers scattered on the floor. I'm obsessed with making sure an animal is being taken care of the way it deserves to be taken care of.

They're like children. They can't take care of themselves. Chris describes the children as dressed in dirty clothes and appearing not to have been bathed recently. We pick back up as Chris continues to press Samantha. And I'm watching this guy punching the face with the guy. got over and out. That didn't make you feel. Horrible. Okay.

So, I was hysterically blowing. So didn't, didn't make you feel glad? No. Because you told me that you felt good about, you wanted to stab and killing? At some point in time, everybody loses their temper. But have I ever acted out and hurt anybody? No. And you can look at my record on that.

When she says you can look at my record, this is what is known as a convincing statement. When someone is lying, they may make statements such as this that sound compelling in order to convince the other person. However, someone who's telling the truth is less likely to use convincing statements because the facts are on their side. I have one kind of criminal mischief, and that was because I tossed my keys to somebody and let them use my car. And they didn't have a license. Now, when they cut your shirt off, was it violent or did they just put their time? No, they jerked it out and started slashing at it with this apparently. dull box cutter and then when it didn't work, ripped it off over my head and threw it to the side.

So it wasn't completely cut in half or no. They started cutting like they were going to cut it down or across and the blade wasn't working so they said I and ripped it off over my head. But as far as tonight you had nothing to do with this experience. You don't know. Who did anything? No. You're positive. But what I need you to do for me is make me a list of everybody, friends, family, contact numbers, his boss where he works at Little Caesars, his boss where he works with the Talco Woodcraft. The investigator exits the room and leaves Samantha to her list.

A few minutes later, Sheriff Tim Ingram enters the room and tries his hand at getting to the truth with Samantha. And this is why that it's very important, hon, that we want you to be honest, because I want to tell you what, but the evidence were found on the scene it's just not matching. I don't think you harm this boy that I think you know who did because there's someone who kidnapped him why is there his blood and he'll pick up.

Kidnippers ain't going to use that pickup to do something with him and put him out there and put him in the truck and haul him back. In his pickup being his blood? Yeah, it's apparent to me that somebody used to his truck. When someone is feeling especially anxious, their mouth and throat may become drug,

which can lead to increased throat clearing, swallowing, or coughing. If any of these behaviors start or increase suddenly, it can be assigned to detectives that they're on the right track and need to question the suspect further. Samantha's cough here could be related to this. She may be panicked about the news that blood was found in his truck, and the cough is an attempt to reduce the discomfort and dryness she feels in her throat. You're taking somewhere. I didn't he was assaulted at y'all's house.

I told him that they got into his truck. because they wanted his ID. Because they said they needed to verify 100% they had the right person is what they said. I don't know if they were one of the people that hit him or not. They sent somebody out to the truck to get his wallet to check his ID.

Came back in and said yes. He is who he says he is. Okay, but they still don't explain why his blood is in that truck. They hit him in the face like 100 times. Well, no, but you said they went out and did it and got it. He was never supposed to be in that truck. If they had blood on their hands and not in the truck. No, no, it's drip blood.

It's not. It's drip blood? Yes, he was in that truck. And this is what's going to look so bad is from your story. And this is why you don't have to be a suspect. And I still don't think you did it. I don't think you're strong enough to do it. But I personally, I think you're scared.

I don't know if you had a boyfriend. Anything I found out about? The investigator is attempting to a kid. establish the existence of accomplices, and from there, the existence of one or more conspiracies. I didn't have a boyfriend. Okay. I don't know what the deal is, but Sam, you've got the kids in the same room. It's telling that Samantha says she's being as honest as she can.

This may be another convincing statement. It sounds reasonable, but someone who's telling the entire truth likely wouldn't feel the need to make claims about being an honest person. In addition, Samantha's statement here may have some level of truth to it. She's being as honest as she can be without incriminating herself. Adding on, as I can, may be an exclusion qualifier, which allows her to tell the detective some of what happened while withholding information about her specific role in the crime.

There's just the whole layout of your house and the way you said they took him. It's just, it's hunting, it's just not making sense. The interrogator is doing a good job of appearing neutral. Despite the evidence pointing to Samantha being dishonest with him, he makes it out as if he is on her side. The more she trusts the detective, the more likely she will be to confess. Okay.

All right, let's try you speak about what we need, okay? You need something to drink? Um, are you left with my phone? Where did he take that? Well, we've got to search for your phone. That phone's going to be ours for a while. Because the calls ever called you may probably be in the past year

we're going to have to look at. Okay. Your text message, you're our thing, so we've got a search for your phone. Okay. Okay. I'm telling you everything I know. I'm repeating everything they've said. Okay, okay.

Well, just go ahead and do you. You got your statement. We'll get back with you in, okay? You can look at my record. I'm not somebody that gets into trouble. Sit right here and told me the same story just like you're telling me. And, oh, they try to convince me. And in the end, when the evidence come in, they sat there and we go along with our line.

We know how long the store was made up. Detectives want suspects to think they know more than they actually do, or that they're about to find some crucial piece of evidence, leaving suspects panicking about how much police actually know. Investigators want suspects to feel the time pressure to confess, implying that it's in the suspect's best interest to do so before it's too late. I will be the first person to come forth because I want to found. So how did you call for help if you're tied up?

my nose. So they didn't take your phone in. They left your phone there. They asked me if I had a phone and I told him no. And they asked him. So how'd you get to it? How'd you get to it? I wiggled on my side.

Where was it? I was on this side of the upstairs and it was shut up underneath the edge of the bed on this side of the upstairs. Who did you call me? My mother was the first number on my call list. I just used my face. So instead of calling 911 for help,

you called your mother? How did you press 9-1-1-1? one with your face. Well, how did you dial your mother with your face? I didn't die all my mother. I just pushed the first thing that was on there. It just happened to be my mom. Although Samantha may believe this is a reasonable explanation,

you'll encounter another witness who will tell the sheriff's office that they observe Samantha with her phone simply laying on her lap in the aftermath of the attack. Next, the sheriff wants to hear about what's been going on in Samantha's personal life. Well, now see, here's something else I don't understand. Maybe you can help explain to me. You talk about how you love Ernie, right? But though you're talking to Brian, you're talking to Allen.

I'm not like to have friends because I marry. Oh, no. No, not that's your friend when people like you, huh? No, you think that's normal for married people to... In the world, nowadays, in general, I think more people are age. I wish I could marry somebody like my dad. He's great. there's nobody else ever that could turn his odds from her.

He's the perfect husband. God knows I didn't marry anyone. He cheated on me more than once, and I think every once in all to hear that I'm beautiful and to hear that I am an attractive person and that I am not the most horrible person in the world. It's nice. This could be an attempt to not only justify her actions

and talking to other guys, but it could also be a deliberate attempt. to portray her husband in a negative light. She's hinting toward verbal abuse by claiming that he would tell her how horrible she is. This seems especially unusual given the fact that her husband is still missing. Most people would avoid speaking ill of a loved one who's missing or recently deceased. She may be setting up a possible defense if it's later proven that she was involved in his disappearance. Yeah, Arnie, you ever look at your phone?

Yes, all of them. Did he say the messages before you've been talking to them yet? Yeah. What do you say? Nothing. He didn't particularly like it, but after what he put me through, he told me as long as I didn't bring anything home or do anything at the house, then he didn't want to hear about it. He didn't want to know about it. I told him, I'm not cheating on you. Yeah, these guys tell me I'm beautiful, and they tell me that I'm, you know, and I go out to my mom's house, and I go to the bar and I go dancing. Earlier, Samantha claimed that she didn't go out much and was just a stay-at-home mom. Now the detectives are questioning her about the guy, she was talking to, she suddenly changes her story. She may have given the first statement because it supported the narrative she was trying to weave about how she was a homebody who didn't know

anyone who could be involved in her husband's disappearance. However, now the detectives have evidence of her text with other guys, she needs to support this new narrative. And yeah, I may have a little too much to drink and someone says, hey, can I have your number? And I may give it to home, but that's as far as it goes. Samantha seems preoccupied with others recognizing her as beautiful, given her repeated use of the word to describe herself. This could be a possible indication of her having narcissistic traits. Anyway, sorry, like, this little button came up on the corner of my screen,

and I pushed it, and now my lighting is different, and it's making my face look all splotchy, and I don't know that I like it. I'm a little vain, I guess. A narcissist requires excessive admiration. She may have felt like she didn't get the recognition from her husband, that she felt entitled to. So she sought out that attention from other men. Heidi, in your statement, you might want to just go ahead and write in there.

After you talk about what happened to that, you might just want to talk about and put in there that you have been friends with. Because who's saying one of these guys didn't set it up to try to get you where you're single that can come in and get you and just use that as a point. And that's what I'm saying. I may know something without even realizing I know something. The detective is laying groundwork for the theme development stage of the Reed technique, by suggesting that one of the men who was interested in her had something to do with her husband's disappearance.

If she can admit to this possibility, it will be easier for her to later admit to having knowledge of it, and then eventually to her confessing that she was actively involved. When the sheriff mentions that perhaps one of her male acquaintances set this up to make her single, she grasps at this idea as another motive. She may be realizing her story and acting aren't going over as well as she'd imagined. Once again, she's the victim. It seems she'll do anything to deflect attention from herself. In October, things blew up.

He laid his hands on me. I put criminal trespass on him, on his sister, because she was acting crazy and harassing me. My friend David Smith had talked to me earlier, sending my convoyator that night, I told him it was probably not the best idea. Why aren't he going to be there? Who's this David Smith?

He called in and reported that he was there. Then when he realized that I intended on giving him the chance to be the better person he says he's going to be and to go through the criminal trespass or the anger management courses and go through and do what he says he's going to do. And I'm going to give him that chance out of home on his own without having a judge to force him to do it. So are you talking about angry issues? Is he jealous? Yes. Is he very jealous of you?

This is different than what she said earlier about how Ernie told her she could do whatever with whomever, as long as it wasn't at their house. Samantha appears to enjoy being in the role of the damsel in distress and having David Smith and these other men come and save her from her allegedly abusive husband. This is another example of Samantha's need for attention, which is common among individuals with narcissistic personality disorder. Yes. David Smith hit him up because me and him had been hanging out. I had intended on ever hearing from day on again, Ernie. I had never intended on speaking to him again. He cheated on me and he laid his hands on me. I was done. Well, his sister talked to, talked his way back in. He said, he said he loves you, blah, blah, blah. He wants to be with you. Well, I was on a Skype conversation with him and David was at the house and he heard it. What do you do? He got freaking furious and started freaking out on me and treating me like crap and threatening me. David, this guy that was a friend and only a friend, wanted to be with me. And when he realized that I had intended on going back to my husband, he freaked out.

I need to find out where David lives. If you say this close to you, I need to find out where he lives at. Hey, there is one of the way that we can make you absolutely sure and clear to you. we can give you a photograph test. Would you mind me speaking to my mother before I completely agree to that? Well, if you have nothing to have, I would you talk to your mother.

Because it's nothing against you personally, but just cops in general, you hear such negative things and how they are not out to help you, and CPS is the same way, and I just kind of want to get my mom and dad's opinion on if it's in my best interest.

You know what? You know what I think? I think it's not going to be long. I think they're locking your butt for what I think. I think you've been lying to me this whole thing. You did get them right. I think you're a liar at what I think. I think you know exactly who did this

and not mind your freaking story for a minute. That's what I think. So I'll tell you what let's do. Let's just get on with it. It seems that the interrogator's anger is an intended tactic here. It evokes the desired reaction from Samantha, but it can also be a setback to the overall interrogation's progress. Any trust created

is now gone. This is a change-up used only when there is overwhelming evidence against the suspect. Hearing this, Samantha may be experiencing the freeze response here. Her body is completely still with her mouth hanging open. When someone senses danger such as Samantha realizing here that police don't buy her story one bit, they may cease all movement. This is an instinct. response to danger. Movement invites attention, so freezing may make someone momentarily feel like they can lower the spotlight on them. That's why I say I've tried to really be honest with you.

And that's why I feel that you have done nothing to sit here this whole time. I'm going to tell you right now, DPS is they're doing it. And what bothers me is you even hesitate to take that knowing it would positively clear you or it positively show that you're hiding something. But what's going to make you guilty is when we prove that you laughed us in here. The sheriff indicates that lying will essentially make her guilty. This is somewhat misleading. Though, as stated previously, the police are legally allowed to mislead suspects so long as they do not coerce them into a confession.

Nevertheless, the inconsistencies between Samantha's statements and the evidence could be used to suggest that she is aware of her own guilt and is using lies to cover it. up. Therefore, the investigator is trying to establish knowledge of guilt, or more commonly referred to as consciousness of guilt. This is most often established by circumstantial evidence related to the suspect's actions or inactions after a crime. That is the case that I do know who did it and why they did it. Okay. Doesn't that make me like an accomplice? Nope. You sure don't. No, that makes you a scared mother with children.

Interestingly, Samantha asked the sheriff about being an accomplice. The law usually treats accomplices just as it would principles, meaning that accomplices can face exactly the same legal penalties. Most states hold a person criminally liable if they aid or abet another in the commission of a crime. The classic example of this is a getaway driver for a bank robbery. Importantly, this is a distinct concept from conspiracy. A conspiracy is when two or more people make an agreement to commit a crime. crime, and at least one individual within the group takes some overt act towards committing the crime.

In such a case, all conspirators are criminally liable for the conspiracy. The only other thing I know, I don't even know, I know, but it's a suspicion. Okay. Okay. She's got a guy there, and I swear to God it cannot go up there than I said any of this. Okay. Because they have a lot of friends around here, and my life will be in a lot. Okay.

But the only other thing I know is vinting to fur and talking to her. Like I just told you, I have a problem talking to our friends about our problem. I don't have many of them. So when I do get with one of my friends that I want to talk about any problems we might have had. Honestly, lately it hasn't been many. Okay. We have had problems with us and I hadn't seen Charlotte in a long time.

Okay. I've got to trouble with it. And she's got this guy in the room with her, and he gets talking about how a man shouldn't treat a woman that way and how you don't do those things to a person. And he's going to deal with the situation. I didn't take him seriously. Okay. You see, Sam, you know who did this. But that does not make you go out.

But I don't have any proof that he did. I just have what he said. Okay. Who is this guy? His name's John. John who? His Facebook is Rebel. John Rebel.

It's John. I don't truly know his last name, but his Facebook says, John Rebel. At this point, it seems Samantha's crying could be attributed to the fact that her story isn't yielding the results she'd hoped for, rather than because Dagan is missing. This behavior is consistent with her narcissistic tendencies. At this time, Samantha first mentions an acquaintance known as John Rebel, herein begins a turning point in this complex story as a new persona begins to evolve. He's got a brother named Greg. He's got a really bad history as far as... Who's Greg?

I was told he's an informant. I don't know Greg's last name here. Where does John live? I don't know. I know he's been staying with Charlotte. So if he did this, who do you think he'd bring with him? I don't know many of his friends. But yesterday at the hospital, he had a guy that I do know from town with him.

His name is Tay. Who? T. Rimes? Samantha's beginning to let all of the cats out of the bag. In just a few short minutes, she's implicated John Rebel, who will soon be identified as John Sanford, and TAY, whom investigators will learn as a man by the name of Octavius Rhymes. The pace of the investigation is beginning to accelerate and will continue to pick up speed as the disturbing details begin to surface. Did they do something to let you know that there was them inside their house?

house? Not a thousand percent particular, but I'm pretty sure it was him. The height and the Wade and the way he was talking or gangster. You put yourself together and get to write and we need to arrest these folks and keep them out of the street where they can hurt junior children. There was a third person with them. Okay, who do you think it was? He's got people that stayed with him. Oh, not rebel? Before this happened in my house. Yes? Tay was with him.

There was another guy. I don't know his name, but he pretty much fits the middle of the third guy. There was three people? Yes, at the house, there was three people. And at the hospital yesterday, you can look at the cameras, there was three people. So the high home of video camera there at the hospital?

At the hospital yet. Okay. There was Tay and that guy in his third party. The one that I said was basically like the ringleader that was busting everybody around the other two really didn't talk much other than a word here and there. But it was the big guy, the third party that was at the hospital. She claims not to have known the third man at the hospital, but she's prepared to shift all of the blame in his direction. The only thing I know about the heavysaid dude is they called him Jojo, but they told me that wasn't his name. They said they, I believe they said it was Jose.

Samantha reveals quite a bit about this third person. Samantha gives a detailed story about where Jojo lives and knows that everybody calls him Jojo, despite saying just moments ago that she'd just met these individuals. Also, another significant item to note, do you recall when the corporal at the scene learned of a ping on Dagan's phone from dispatch? He asked Samantha if she knew anyone in Pittsburgh and she had no reply. Well, it turns out, she did.

Tay and Jojo were both residing in Pittsburgh. She heads out for a smoke break as members of the sheriff's office prepare to head to the local hospital, determined to intercept two suspects that have been frequenting Charlotte's room for days. Both John and Jojo were apprehended at the hospital at 9.39 a.m. As you'll see, each interrogation will be damning, to say the least. The clock now reads 10.10 a.m. The other party that was picked up at the hospital by the sheriff's office, a man by the name of John Sanford, a.k.a. John Rebel is seated in the interrogation room. He's dressed in black pants and a black

long-sleeved shirt. The clothes match Samantha's description of the assailant's dress provided to law enforcement. Clearly, John is quite comfortable here. He may be thinking that if he engages with law enforcement, they'll believe him or go easy on him. You know what this is about. You know exactly what it is. You know what happened where Samantha's house last night. That's what we're going to talk to you about, okay? I'm on Randolphus. You know, you're out. You don't have to talk to me if you don't want to, and that's fine. I hope you decide to, because I think there's some things you're probably going to tell me. You're shy of the story. And he sits going to match Samantha's, because Samantha, I'll be untuously she's pointing to finger at Jojo. She said he was with him. Now, do you want to talk to me

a little bit about this? Yeah. Okay, well, let me tell you. Let me tell you what they're saying first, because I think you'll be honest, because our bear is dead. he's he's dead but now according to Samantha he was just a bystander why children would be to live in a room where you all the blood and collecting edits anytime there are multiple suspects involved in a crime police will want to separate them as soon as possible so they don't have a chance to get their stories aligned Police may often plant the seed of doubt that the others are implicating them, leaving each suspect with the decision dilemma of whether to confess or remain silent.

The detective is also utilizing a read technique here of placing blame on an outside source rather than on the suspect himself. This will make it easier for John to admit his involvement because the detective is building the theme that John was just a bystander and not the main perpetrator. Additionally, in this situation it's likely that the third there are no real bystanders from a legal standpoint. Under a theory of accomplice liability,

if the prosecution can prove that John aided or abetted the murder of Dagan, John would be in the same legal jeopardy as the person who pulled the trigger. Okay, this all started yesterday. Like you said, yeah, we talked to her about her problem with her husband and all that. Never did I plot to kill the guy. I have a problem with males hitting females. And I do too. she did say that there's been times

it's crossed her mind to do stupid shit this and that like what like basically like get somebody to fuck them off like not kill them but like just beat the shit out of them set them up shit like that

right and I told her I said well damn I said you're talking to somebody that could do that but I wasn't going to though John now begins his account of the previous night, beginning with a quick stop at Samantha's house. Jojo had the keys. He was pastoral scene. At front.

Yeah. Who was driving? I drove because... Okay. Who was with you? It was me, Jojo, and the dude in the back seat, I have never seen the day in my life. Except for... I do know... What's his name? All I know, he was related to Tay. Yeah, because I think I know who he is. John indicates that someone related to Tay was in the back seat and that Tay wasn't with the three of them in the car.

I'm, okay, let me refresh that. I have seen them because I have been running around Pittsburgh, but unless they live on Cypress Street, I don't know who they are. Okay, I got you. Okay, well, go ahead. Y'all's all three together. So you're driving, but you didn't have the keys. They didn't have the keys, and I really didn't have a choice because I like my life.

John seems to be trying to suggest that it was actually Jojo, who was directing the scheme, and now seems to be implying that Jojo threatened him into driving. Notably, duress can be a defense to some crimes. However, it's typically not a defense to the crime of murder. John gives his rendition of what occurred at the Ibera home. They go in, I'm the only person that knows the way out to the house. So, Jojo asked me, like, where they sleep at?

And I just walked up, stop, and told him, look, upstairs. They didn't go up. I have to go up in the middle. It was Jojo, me, and then the last dude would go up. And that's when all hell breaks was. Beat the living hell out of the dude. Honestly, me personally, I do not believe Samantha really had a hand to play. And I think that what she was saying just kind of got too far.

Okay, so who, now, what happened? Who beat the hell out of you? Jojo and the other guy. is awkwardly using his hands as he talks, despite being handcuffed. People may increase their use of illustrators to make their lies sound more believable or give off the impression that their story is true. Jose Jojo Ponce is in the hot seat. Needless to say, things aren't looking good for Jojo, who's now dressed in orange prison attire.

Jonathan is really putting, he's putting this whole thing off of you. and said that you're the one that wanted to go in there and he kept saying that you saying something about about like maybe you had a bad dope deal that went bad. I don't even know

matter of fact I specifically told them when she told me who her husband was right there in Octavis's house when she told me his name I told her I don't even know who they are

I don't even know him Jojo, I said, well, what do you think you can do? You think you can come up with 20 grand in five minutes? John mentions that Jojo demands Dagan produced $20,000 within five minutes if he wants to fix things. This is almost exactly what Samantha told the police. This could be because it's true. However, if you watch Samantha's interrogation footage, it's clear that she's trying to paint the incident as drug-related. Cause this.

Cause this. Asking for compensation to me helps him all. And this may simply be a story that the group concocted to tell the police. Joe Joe telling me, all right, stay here and watch him. Dude's out cold. I'm talking about fold it up. He basically like me like this. All the ground.

When we got outside the house, they had him up against the truck, and still behind the back, had his face down like this. What part of the truck? The hood of the truck. Okay, that makes sense. That's where, okay. The investigator catches himself here. Just before he almost lets out a person.

piece of evidence. Retaining key evidence is a way to corroborate testimony and also to tie physical evidence to one or more suspects. They went through the truck. And at this point, when I start thinking, damn, what the, what the, what the really want, you got to put the dude in the back seat. So we go, we leave. As we're going, we're saying, I go here, go here, we'll warm drive. We go all the way out to the country. Get out to the country. Next thing I know, They walk off. They're like, Go start the vehicle.

Go start the vehicle, he throws me the keys. So I'm like, what the fuck? So I thought where I'm back to the vehicle, and in my mind process, this is my neck of the woods now. You know where you're at? Yeah. This is my neck. The work makes to go out there, me and you, we're going back out there.

Because everything you're saying so far is matching 100%. Before I've made the vehicle, all I hear is, pop. Who's got the gun? Who's got the gun? Jojo. Note that John is named Jojo as the trigger man. As you'll see, there won't be a consensus when it comes to this brutal aspect of the crimes. Hey, listen, man, they've done everybody's done.

Everybody's done what to figure that you're the one to pull the trigger. That's what I'm saying, though, and I didn't. Who pulled the trigger there? Jonathan. Despite claiming that John pulled the trigger, there are still at least two ways in which Jojo could still be criminally liable for the murder. First, under a theory of accomplice liability, if the prosecution can prove that Jojo aided or abetted or had the requisite intent for John's murder of Dagan. Second, if the prosecution can prove that Jojo had entered into an agreement with Samantha or John to carry out the murder,

he could be charged with conspiracy to commit murder. The sheriff seemed satisfied that he's gathered all pertinent information from John. He leads John out of the room. The next task is the somber duty of locating and recovering Dagan's body. Sheriff Tim Ingram and investigator Aaron Baxter, along with their helpful suspect, John Sanford, depart the sheriff's office as Chief Deputy John Livingston follows closely behind in Aaron's vehicle. Aaron wears a body camera to document the events that are about to transpire. Be forewarned.

Things are about to take a drastic turn for the worst as members of the Titus County Sheriff's Office begin to uncover the true horrors that occurred early. that very morning. Wait, you think of Cuzz wasn't the bed after all this? Do you think he's holding on the bed? I honestly don't know. Who won't know who Cuzz is other than case the Cripp was talking to me? Who's going to know if this gas would get it quick for him?

It tries to do anything. It's very heavy. So is that it's not what everybody calls for Cuzz? The sheriff asked John, who will be able to identify the mysterious third party, known to us only as Cuzz. will soon learn his true identity. Yeah, see the body. See, A?

Yeah. That's him? Definitely did. Okay. What we need to do now? Oh, yeah, he's dead. He's not going to be alive. What we need to do now is two of us need to break off and take him and use a recorder,

and let's go get that gun. Sadly, Dagan's body is located at 1128 a.m. Aaron places a call to the kid. Cam County Sheriff to alert him of the murder within his jurisdiction. Meanwhile, back at the Titus County Sheriff's Office, an anxious and fidgety Samantha has returned to the interrogation room. The clock now reads 1145 a.m. It seems Samantha hasn't been informed that Dagan was located, deceased, approximately 17 minutes earlier. While the members of the sheriff's office are locating the potential murder weapon, Samantha occupies herself by riding on the dry erase board in

the interrogation room. Just as Samantha leaves the room as the clock reads 1158 a.m., Aaron's body camera recording resumes. The sheriff, John, the suspect, and the two investigators, Aaron and John, head to the home where the gun is believed to have been stashed. Note that the woman seated on the front step of the home is Lacona Slayton. Her connection to the case will be revealed to you shortly. Thank you. I appreciate you, man. Wait a minute, we'll be done. Hey, John.

Where is it got at? It was out here, but it's apparently not out here. Who got it? I don't know. Y'all arrested me. Why ain't it out here? I don't know. No, I'm not the box.

And the boxes are you in a lot of box. So you already knew the gun was involved in. No, he has no clue. She has no clue about nothing. I'm telling you all that now. So I haven't, she had no cause I know it. Here's the deal, all right. We need the gun.

You could be, you could be charged with the same thing. She would not here. You could be an accomplice to murder, capital murder. That's death penalty. So if you know where the gun's at, she knows where the guns is at. You need to go ahead and tell us. I don't know where the guns at. I just told you that.

Okay. I'm going to give you one more opportunity. Dude, you can hurt me. I don't know where the gun did that. That's probably about to happen because I think you're a liar. You've got the freaking box. You've got the dead gun gun gun gun. Where's the gun go then?

I don't know. So why don't you get the box? I don't care, man. I didn't do shit. You're, you must be about as low life as that husband of yours. He ain't my fucking husband. Well, you're with him. About the same thing.

Whatever. The sheriff and Lekona are referring to Jojo here. Oh, yeah. You remember enough to go and get that box that gun in it, don't you? No, I remember to come home and check the fucking box. So the gun is not in the tent? I don't know. Go check the tent.

I don't know. Is it okay if I check the tent? Yes, it is okay. Okay. And where is it at? Right behind the house. After a dramatically heated exchange with Lacona, the sheriff and Aaron head to the tent, which currently serves as Lacona's home to attempt to locate the gun.

A search in this case does not require a warrant. When someone with the controlling interest gives permission to search a premises, including a tent, it's an exception. to the warrant requirement. Back at the sheriff's office, Samantha is again writing on the dry erase board. As a couple of written questions are directed at the sheriff's office, she continues to put on a show. These behaviors are once again very childlike and immature.

Oftentimes, individuals with personality disorders will display immature behaviors. In high-stress situations in particular, they often regress, and these behaviors become much more evident. There you go right there. I bet you. See the dope or the gun. The gun. The gun. Well, the hell would I tell you to go look in the tent? It wasn't in the tent. Well, I don't know where the all we want is the truth. Man, I'm telling you, all I know is the guy told me that they were suspects in the murder case. The first thing that pulled in my head was that gun. It was not in the box where it was always that. And I don't know what the fuck is going on, but I want to, no. Okay, well, just like the other officer told you were investigating a murder, all right?

There was a guy killed last night. He was executed. He wasn't supposed to have it, was he? No. Convicted felon or? Yeah. Okay. Obviously, you know, that guy's got a family and they're going to want to know what happened to their son and father.

I mean, the guy's got kids young. kids. And so we just want to, we're just trying to gather the facts up and get justice for this guy's family. Is there anything that you can tell me at this point that would help us with our investigation? Other than that, if I think he would have did something like that? Yeah, because he's pulled it on me before. He's pulled the gun out on you before? Yeah. All right. No, I've prayed, but damn, I didn't think he was going to split up with him like this. important piece of information, which was uncovered due to the officer's catch-all question, may explain why Lekona didn't reveal the gun's location. It's possible that if she did know where

it was, she kept the location secret for a much different reason than avoiding trouble herself or protecting someone else. Instead, she may have been fearful of retaliation from Jojo if she talked. We've yet to hear Jojo's side of the story, but it's going to be hard to dig himself out of the hole that seems to be getting deeper by the minute. The members of the sheriff's office depart with the recovered weapon that was believed to have been used to execute Dagan. Investigator Aaron Baxter sits down with Lekona on February 24th, just four days after Dagan was killed.

During our last encounter with Lekona, when the handgun was retrieved near the tent that served as her place of residence, she seemed to insinuate that her days with Jojo were numbered. However, she initially referred to Jojo as her fiance. get this meeting. It may be that she had a change of heart and decided against ending the volatile relationship after all. As a result, she may be less forthcoming in her interview than the sheriff's office would have hoped. You know, the other day when we were over there with a gun, what made you think that that gun was used to just, you just had a gut feeling? I just had that feeling. I just said it was a feeling because, I don't know, it was just a feeling.

And you said that Jose had pointed it even before? Yeah, in the past, but he would never, he would use for him. When it comes to other people, he's not mean. He's a coward. When it came to me, it was different. Other folks, he was a coward. He always backed down from five, two, stuff. And I just don't understand.

I don't see why. Why? I just don't understand you. What? Why? Jojo didn't even know her. As far as I knew, Jonathan was the only one that knew. Then I found out Tay's known her, Jonathan's known her. Jojo didn't know her, so why would he be? Oh.

Lekona seems genuinely confused about the conspiracy and why Jojo would participate, seeing as he hadn't met Samantha until the day before the murder. According to future testimony provided by John, the three men smoked methamphetamine while en route to the Ibera household. Perhaps this claim could explain the violent behavior seemingly uncharacteristic of Jojo. So what did you ever found that gun in my team? I promise you didn't. Where do you think I found it? I know exactly where you found it, which is in a spot that Jonathan hit it.

Jonathan put it there? Seriously? Yes. Jojo seems to believe that by knowing where it had been hidden, he can somehow pin the murder on John. John did Bill's pissed out and he hits him with it. Where John had him a pistol at? That was a waste man. Whose pistol is it? John's.

Where did he get it? Beats me. Clearly, Jojo's story is not agreeing with John's version of events. Most significantly, Jojo claims the gun that was allegedly used to murder Dagan belongs to John. Though Jojo is unsure where or how John obtained it. All right, and the gun that we got out from under the house. That's the gun that I guess it belonged to Jose. It was mine.

It was a gift to me from him. It was mine. Okay. Most importantly, perhaps, LaCona confirms that the handgun that was recovered near the tent belongs to her in Jojo, not John. What I need to do, I've got Samantha's version. Samantha is the ringleader. I never met it. I never met it until yesterday.

So you just took there with Charlotte and them. That's when you met. That's when I met yesterday. I met Samantha. And I met her five kids. We all left. We get to Walmart. We're in Walmart for a little bit.

All of a sudden, Octavius Rhyams walks up to me. He said, man, I got to go. I said, why? He's like, my mom just called me and cussing me. I tell him I better get the damn car home. So I would let me go find Jonathan real quick. Let me ask Jonathan if he can give us me and my wife right on.

Spanke House. When Jonathan took me home that afternoon, though, Octavius was home. Octavius ended up leaving with Jonathan. They left together. Me and my wife stayed at home. All of a sudden, I loved the seven or eight. That's last time they showed back up.

This time they showed up with Octavius, Jonathan, Samantha, and her kids. Jonathan pulled me to the side It's like because I didn't talk to you I don't go what's up He's like, look Oh girl, we're talking about Samantha He said Samantha Uh uh

wants us to You know Do something And he wouldn't tell me full details Until We Went to the place All of a sudden

he tells me, he said, look, I just need you to stand guard. Jojo describes what is called a criminal conspiracy between himself and John to commit the crime of kidnapping. Another important revelation is Jojo's claim that Tay was a willing participant in the conspiracy, despite Samantha's and John's initial reluctance to implicate him. It turns out that old Cuzz was actually Tay all along. Let's hear it straight from the source. Meet Octavius Tay Rhymes, whose identity Samantha and John attempted to conceal initially.

Tay had requested a meeting with the Titus County Sheriff's Office with the intention of getting a deal in the works. However, Tay was informed that he'd need his lawyer to handle the negotiating with the DA's office. While seated with investigator Wayne Minor, Tay went ahead and pleaded his case. I just spoke to y'all about. I admit to y'all, you know,

that I was in a vicinity when he took the dude from his home. I didn't know, I realized that they were playing on doing. So like I said, I know y'all ran my criminal background history already. I would have a bottom background. I would have a felony. No, I've never been in those shows trouble like this ever. You know, so I'm trying to work with a job back. I can't really give y'all no more information.

There's no thing on the table. Striking a deal is quite common in criminal cases, especially those with multiple defendants. Often the prosecution will offer a more lenient sense. to the accused in exchange for the accused providing information to the police, or agreeing to testify against one of the other defendants. However, it's important to note that a criminal defendant cannot make a deal with the police. Only the prosecutors are authorized to make deals with defendants.

Therefore, any sort of deal that the police make with Tay wouldn't have any legal effect, unless, of course, such a deal was approved by the prosecutor's office. I stayed downstairs inside time. And then, but she whistled. So that means she was downstairs. Because by the same, he, Octavius and, um... How'd she whistle? Was it like a...

Like that or a... Yeah, like that. As I'm saying, she was downstairs. She had to a bit. But you didn't see her? No, no, no, no. And so who went back in with John did? Jonathan did.

And all of a sudden, Jonathan comes back out and says, come here, because I talk to you. I'll walk over here. And he's like, uh... Her mom just called, say she's, uh, that a friend. She's sending a friend over. or to see her or whatever, something like that.

He's like, so she said, we got to go, we need to go now. Jojo claims that Samantha told them to move quickly. Records indicate that she called her mother to alert her of the attack. Because her mother's home was an hour's drive from Samantha's, she assumed that would give the men ample time to leave the premises with Dagan. What Samantha didn't anticipate was that her mother would send a nearby aunt to her rescue. There's no way Jojo could have known this bit of information if Samantha wasn't in on the ruse.

And so we left. They arrive at a secluded area that serves as their destination. Tate's looking at me and looking at him. Jonathan looks back at us. Jonathan pulls it out. He's holding it. All of a sudden, I tell him, man, dude, you're too close. Dude, you shouldn't take the man's life, but you're too close to the road.

Tate's looking, it tastes like you really are. He said, that's going to be loud. This moment is key. As with this statement, Jojo may have just admitted to being an accomplice to Dagan's murder. By admitting to the sheriff that he told John to move further from the road before killing Dagan, prosecutors could argue that Jojo attempted to aid John in his murder of Dagan, leaving Jojo equally culpable for it. All right. Hold on a second.

Bring you go. Then I'll be right back. While Jojo waits for the sheriff to return, he's well aware that the camera is still rolling. I don't understand how the hell he was going to blame me and shit that he did. I went because he asked me for help. So you know what time that they took Samantha home? To be honest, I believe it was before midnight,

but I couldn't really tell you the time. I don't remember the times. I think it was before midnight, though, because she was talking about how the kids were getting sleepy and she needed to get to the house. Something about her. her man was sleep or something and she didn't want to waking up and getting mad. No question about it. Samantha has been caught in a lie.

Cell Tower records give us the real story. Despite Samantha's attempts to deceive law enforcement, her phone wasn't near her home until approximately 10.30 p.m. on February 19th, just a few hours before the invasion. A major development in the case occurs just three days after the murder of Dagan, though it would be a stretch to say it came as a shock. Samantha is arrested and charged with aggravated kidnapping and murder. In the end, the failed conspiracy resulted in lengthy prison terms for all involved.

John and Jojo pleaded guilty the following year in April of 2016. They received 50-year sentences for their roles in Dagan's kidnapping and murder. Months later, in December of 2016, Tay went on trial. It didn't go as he'd hoped, however. He was found guilty of murder and aggravated kidnapping and was sentenced to a total of 93 years. Last but not least came the mastermind behind the whole terribly designed plot. Samantha went on trial for Dagan's murder in September of 2017. Not surprisingly, she was found guilty. She was sentenced to 99 years. In addition, she received another 50 years for the kidnapping

to be served consecutively with her murder sentence. To this day, it is still unknown who pulled the trigger and killed Dagan.