EXPLORE WITH US - The Disturbing Case of Ethan Windom

Episode Date: December 2, 2023

The DISTURBING case of Ethan Windom...The following podcast episode is not legal advice. Do not rely on the information in this presentation without speaking to a licensed attorney.No one discussed in these videos has been formally diagnosed by EWU and our psychological analysis is based on the general behaviors and traits of the people discussed.

My mom puts dinner on the table. I'm asking you. Oh, okay. N, oh. In a few seconds, you're going to witness some of the most shocking interrogation footage that we've ever received. I think you're hurting pretty bad. I don't think you, you ain't nothing. You tell me you understand.

We make mistakes. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Here, let me split it out for you. And don't you know we're all put on this earth? The incomprehensible story behind it will prove to be all the more horrifying. I know how to use a knife. Real well, real well. Right here.

Right here. Right here. Right here. Hey, mom, boy. Mbo, Talia. Yeah, ma'am. Exeterated arresting birth. George Warren.

On January 24, 2007, the quiet confines of Boise, Idaho would be changed forever when 42-year-old mother, Judith Wyndham, is found gruesomely murdered in her own home. Her 16-year-old son, Ethan Windham, would ultimately be the one to stumble across the horrifying scene. And so begins one of the most disturbing investigations we've ever seen. However, as authorities sit down with the distraught teenager, they can't help but wonder if his terrifying story is just a ruse, hiding something much more sinister. In the early morning hours of January 25, 2007, Craig Wyndham is frantically woken by his wife. She tells him that his son, Ethan Windham, has arrived at their house in hysterics.

Ethan lives with his mother, Craig's ex-wife, Judith Windham, also known as well as a son, is Judy. Ethan had left his home that morning, setting off to his father's house on foot in the freezing winter temperatures, all for one terrifying reason. Craig quickly gets out of bed and runs to meet Ethan in the living room, where his son can barely speak. But when he finally does, he utters a disturbing set of words. His mom, Judy, is dead. Craig immediately calls police who were dispatched to Judy's address, as well as to his own. home. However, not a single person could have anticipated the absolute nightmare that was just beginning to unfold. Hi, Ethan. Dr. Stevens. Were you at your mom's off tonight? Were you

sleeping? I was on my couch. On your couch? On my chair. Okay. I sometimes saw a sleep walking in the movies. Okay. I understand. And where was your mom out when you were, when you were sleeping or were you hanging out? She's in a room. When was the last time you saw her, what time? Nine o'clock, I believe, came home from my son, Matt. Okay, and that's when you, nine o'clock tonight? Yeah. And that's when you saw your mom? I saw her, and she was in her bed?

Okay, was she fine and awake? Yes, when she dropped her? Yeah, she was in her bed? Yeah, she was okay. You just try to take it easy, and we're going to get the paramedics over there, and we're going to get police over there and see if she's okay. If you just stay calm and breathe there, you should be okay. Ethan seems to struggle to comprehend the unbelievable sight that he's just witnessed,

but authorities are eager to speak with the 16-year-old. And he has quite the story to tell. They quickly take them in for questioning while another set of officers make their way to Judy's home on Normandy Drive. What they discover is disturbing beyond belief. What do I get? Set right now to walk, it's going to be a head.

There's dry blood on the floor of the bedroom. They're making that shot. Yeah. There's a nice side of the guy. It's something straight out of a horror movie. 42-year-old Judy has been murdered in her own bed. Authorities later reported that her face was disfigured beyond recognition, and it appeared that someone used a shotgun in the incomprehensible crime. However, police will soon discover that the deranged killer used more than just one weapon.

The following interrogation has never been seen before. It's been analyzed by a qualified team, including a licensed professional, professional counselor, a licensed clinical psychologist, and a former detective, former licensed polygraph examiner, and former hostage negotiation commander and instructor. The detectives now sit across from 16-year-old Ethan, and they read him his Miranda rights. In the state of Idaho, police are generally free to interrogate minors without any limitations, beyond constitutional provisions that would equally apply to adults in a similar situation. The minor doesn't have to have someone present to represent their interests prior to questioning

until and unless the minor specifically makes a request for counsel or the presence of a parent or guardian. In that case, an interrogation would have to stop upon the request. The detectives ask Ethan if he would like his father to be present during the interrogation, but Ethan states that he would like to continue without his father in the room. Can you tell me what happened tonight? I was sleeping in the chair and living around and I threw it off and everything what that is, you know. The detectives jump right into questioning, Ethan, without spending any time building rapport. This can be very detrimental as rapport building is not just about getting the other person to talk,

but also to build a foundation of a relationship, which can then minimize the person's anxiety and get them to relax, open up more. or even to trust the interrogator. I saw him another earlier around 9 o'clock before I started watching a movie, and I watched the movie. It was all the lights were off in the same way. And something was going on. And, you know, a guy was whacking her and stabbing her.

It's noteworthy that Ethan not only says the guy was whacking her and stabbing her, but that he also motioned the actions. These movements were remarkably in sync for him allegedly just seeing the actions. We bed to the house. Okay, so we kind of about have an understanding of what happened. Like I told you before, we kind of know a little bit about everything. Do you understand that, Ethan? Yeah.

Ethan's fast and repeated head nodding here is likely an indication of anxiety. However, he may be reeling from his traumatic experience of finding his mother dead. In relationship, I'd like to do, Ethan, just kind of rewind a little bit to the beginning, you know, to tonight, all right? You kind of have you start over because I think what's happening is you're kind of going down the wrong path. It's no secret that Ethan and his mother had a tumultuous relationship, to say the least, but authorities have only scratched the surface of the horrifying nightmare that was hidden behind closed doors. Did you go to school today? I did.

I did. I did, but I had to go early because they're having these weird spasms over my body and leg. Even though he's answering the questions, Ethan is still pretty closed off, with his arms tightly crossed. Though we can't totally see his legs, it looks like they're also crossed and aimed away from the investigator, indicating that Ethan has his guard up and isn't super engaged with the investigator. The investigator should have engaged in rapport building before he, he started questioning him, because it may have prevented him from being quite so closed off. Well, you're just having a burst spasm on my legs, so I called him my dad and had him back home.

What happened after that even? After you woke up sleeping from the disaffernation when your mom come home? I don't know, mainly around four years old. And the chair, just kind of watching the same movie. She's kind of movies for you're watching. It's happy accidents. They were saying that. No.

So you're going to watch these together? No. She was, you know. Ethan goes into a long tangent, setting up his timeline. He shakes his head no when saying the time his mom came home, as well as that he was watching some movies, indicating a slight brain and body disconnect. For years old, watching some movies.

Notably, he thinks about it, and then names a movie he said he's seen over and over, which is an easy way to keep his story straight if he's lying. Sometimes she'd come and actually do watch some of the movie. Did she take it in half yesterday, being Wednesday after school? Yeah, didn't care. Ethan had a rather interesting taste in film, but there would be one movie in particular that he favored above the rest. Authorities will soon learn exactly which movie that is,

and Ethan's terrifying reasons as to why he loved it so much. A little later, I worked out with my friend, him across the shoe, I usually work out in my house because I got, you know, a little gym set up in my house, but, you know, I just decided to work out with him, just to sit here want to work out. you know.

You're a big guy, and it looks like you've been working out pretty hard. Yeah. And it's family where you're all like to see. The chest. Ethan's recent interest in fitness was growing into borderline obsession. Over the last several months, he had gained a significant amount of weight. According to official police documents, the teenager was consistently drinking weight gainer and may have been using steroids.

although there was a strange explanation behind his sudden newfound hobby. As he continues with this story, he states that he returned home from his friend's house around 8.30 that night. Judy was reportedly asleep in her room at this time. Ethan decided to sit down in his chair in the living room where he supposedly watched several films before falling asleep. He would apparently be woken to the horrifying sounds of his mother being gruesomely murdered. What I told you, I woke on it. Right.

What I told you is a referral statement, and Ethan delivers it pointedly. In contrast, though, he does a few exaggerated head nods and a slight one-shoulder shrug when saying, when I woke up. I woke up. Which indicate his anxiety and low confidence in what he's saying. Along with the intense eye contact he's making with the detective, it's clear Ethan is really trying to appear honest. Ethan, understand. I understand a couple things. Okay.

Yeah. We've been over to your house. We have a pretty good understanding of what happened. Yeah. I'd like to tell me what happened. You need to be honest with me. I am. I do that for me.

I want you to tell me something that's been made up or anything like that. I want you to tell me the truth. I don't understand. I understand. So you want to tell me the truth about what happened. Did you notice that? Ethan repeatedly nods his head. again once the detective applies more pressure. As he talks, his hands and arms are moving like

they should be involved with his words, but he's keeping them tight across his chest so that they can't betray him. He very rarely drops the barrier and allows his hands to be expressive as you would in normal conversation. Watch when he does use his hands, though, as they're often in exaggerated slightly unnatural movements, as though he's thinking too hard. tell me the truth yet I need you to go ahead and tell me the truth. What's the truth? I understand you have some issues, okay? I understand that you've had problems at school.

I understand that you've had some advice with your mom in the past. That's normal, I mean, that's what teenagers do, right? Sometimes we don't get along with our parents. And that's understanding. But I honestly need you to rewind what happen. I need you to tell me. See, that's the part.

Listen. That's the part. You're not listening. I'm listening. I'm listening, but you're not listening. I am. Because you're telling me, but you're telling me. Right.

And you want to hear, you know, the truth. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. And okay, then I want to hear. Right. You're a person woman. I know. I'm not going to tell you with everything that I know.

Okay, that's not how the process it works. All right. Ethan is attempting to get the detective to tell him what they know and what evidence they have so that he can get his story to match and not give away more than he has to. What I want to do is I want you to tell me. I want you to be an honest man. I'm trying to be talking about. Tell me exactly what happened in there.

I think you feel bad. Okay. I think I don't, I'm not calling you a liar, okay? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not calling me a liar, Ethan. And you just, no, no, no, not calling you a liar. I'm saying I think we need to go back and revisit what happened so we can walk through in your words what exactly happened over there. Ethan sticks to his alibi, but the detective is under the impression that there's something he's holding back.

And by the end of this shocking interrogation, a crazy and completely unexpected revelation will be made. For now, Ethan is confronted by the other detective in the room. I've been put in homicides for 30 years. And there's a couple things that they'd tell you that everybody makes mistakes. Right. Okay. And I want you to listen to me. You've made a big mistake.

And we understand. I want you listen to me first, okay? We already know what went in there. Here's something you need to understand. Number one, you don't know that. You don't know that there wasn't a surveillance ban outside that house that we've had planted there working on somebody else and has a 360. that you're your camera facing on your front door.

Nobody went in or outside of your house, period until you left. Nobody. Despite the interrogator not sounding particularly convincing here about the 360 camera, Ethan's facial expressions give him away. It's like the look that a child gives you when you're calling them out on a lie. He clearly thinks he's got it together and has a good story, but he doesn't, and it shows all over him, especially in his incredibly conspicuous and exaggerated facial expressions.

Secondarily, I know your fascination with Mr. Ellis and the whole thing there. So I'm going to say, oh, okay, and you change the entering machine. Are you listening to me? The detective references the author Brett Easton Ellis, who's most notable for his 1991 novel, American Psycho. Ethan is a big fan of his work. However, his fascination with the fictional story has transformed into an unsublished. Settling obsession. The story is set in Manhattan in the late 1980s, and it follows the life of a mid-20s

wealthy investment banker who lives among the Wall Street elite. The well-educated and meticulously well-manicured Patrick Bateman, who narrates the story, earns his fortune by day, but is a ruthless serial killer by night. In addition to its novel form, a satirical psychological horror film was released in 2000. Of course, to Ethan, it was much more than just a book or a movie, as you'll see. He's not calling you a liar, but what you've seen is we know what happened didn't happen. Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes.

You hurt your mother. And I know you feel bad. Well, that's what we're here to do. Why would that hurt us? That's what we're here to talk to you. Why would that hurt? Listen to me. For all these mistakes.

For no reason? First of all, do you know the difference between right and wrong? Child. Of course I do. Do you believe in God? After Ethan makes more attempts at trying to get the detectives to tell him what they know, he has a massive shift in his behavior. Prior, he seemed okay, but he's suddenly talking differently and even using a different accent.

He's also dropped his barrier. One thing to note is that he appears very uncomfortable with the detective being in his personal space, and he's backed into the corner with no easy access to the door. However, this is a strange reaction to have being asked to, if he knows the difference between right and wrong. It doesn't make logical sense as a trigger for the average person, so perhaps it's something that's been said to him in the past. The surveillance camera outside absolutely shows nobody went in or outside of your house.

Do you understand that? Okay, what am I telling you? That you guys be able to check the back? The only person, no. There is no back. The only person who will wait me, there's no back doors. It's locked with the thing. I locked the back door. Listen to me.

The door was locked. A bad guy can't lock the door on his way out. I lock the bad door. You know, listen to me. I listen to me. If you say you know the difference between right and wrong, then a judge is going to have to make a decision on what to do. With this answer, Ethan throws his hands in the air, known as a gravity-defying gesture,

which is a bit of an odd reaction. He's clearly agitated with his body completely turned away from the officer. The officer is intentionally interrupting his lie so that he doesn't get entrenched in it. But it does seem like this officer is doing a lot of the talking and not allowing Ethan to fill in the story. Do you understand that? He's going to say, Detective Dutton, Detective Smith, when you have the ability to go talk to you, to Ethan, was he remorseful than what he did? Did he feel bad about what he did or did he go, you know what? Some other guy.

I haven't know these things because I mean talking. The 16-year-old was a top-notch student at Bora High School, where he took several advanced placement classes and excelled in his academic career. However, his favorite subject to study was that of the criminal mind, serial killers, to be exact. And what you need to do now is take a step back and tell us why you hurt your mom. She did something to you, or this was some fascination that you have here watching these movies that you acted out.

Do you not understand this work? Okay, tell me about this book. This is a book. Have you never even, have you never even heard about books like these? Have you never even heard about books like these? Tell me about it. Do you not understand the concept. Tell me that.

But the idea of the business world itself. Tell me what is that. Why don't you look at Patrick Bateman as a business himself? What does he do? And when they get to his way, he knocks out. What do a big business in Wall Street? What does Walmart do? The modern pop shops, they knock it out.

You've got to understand. I mean AP English. I've been analyzing this stuff beyond belief because this is my author study. It's clear that Patrick Bateman's fictional success in the world of Wall Street banking has had a profound effect on Ethan. and he seems to think he's of the same mindset. However, his other likenesses to the character are far more disturbing. Because, you know, I understand what he's doing. If you've seen his books, he's making his...

What's not I do understand. There's something I do understand. I think right now you're scared. I'm scared. No, I don't want to remember... You're scared of what you did and you're afraid of what's going to happen to the thing. And B, you're not willing to admit that what you did. The detectives have missed a couple of opportunities to build rapport with Ethan,

which could have aided their interview. For example, they could have tried to relate to him over his interests. It seems like they're pushing too quickly without rapport, and at this point, it's just making Ethan more and more angry. Because of this, we're missing key parts of Ethan's background, such as why exactly he started bulking up. Do you have a conscience? Do you have a conscience?

Do you feel bad about what happened in there? I'm not sure you do. I'm not sure you feel bad about what happened in everything. It's eating you up inside, isn't it? What's eating, yeah. What you did to your mom? What did you did to your mom? Was you hurt her very bad.

Heard her very bad. At least isn't living. No, she isn't. Why isn't she? That ain't hurt being bad. Why would I kill? kill my mom. You got, you know what? Okay. Hello, do you not understand that when I get home, I like the doors? So you had some 360-degree camera in my house. Huh? Is that what is you're saying?

That you can see that someone coming in from the back? You're not. The detective had tried to minimize and it backfires, resulting in Ethan getting upset that he doesn't acknowledge that his parents, is dead. For being so young, Ethan is challenging the detective in a very bold manner. He hasn't been emotionally broken down by the interrogation process and seems to be trying to hang on, even though he appears to be struggling with his speech. Fingerprints? Those are my weights. I didn't hear anything about it right where I'm the weights. Did you not see that I saw her? I saw the old. I saw her. I saw her. Relaxed, then relax.

No. How am I supposed to relax when I saw with that person deep to my mind? What happened to the weight? What happened to the weight? You really want me to go into this? Ethan is doing a lot of self-soothing leg rubbing, and he also finally squares his body to fully face the officer. This can sometimes mean someone is engaged in the conversation,

but in this case it's a very aggressive stance, and he's clearly anxious. What's interesting, though, is that when Ethan hits his hand on the table, it's way before he starts talking, which shows that his non-verbals are mistimed again. You really want me to go into this? His emotion, while still slightly elevated, is suddenly much flatter than it was previously. This rapid emotion change generally indicates that it was a fake display. By repeating the questions asked by the detective, it seems like Ethan is trying to buy a moment. himself time to come up with an answer. How about you to relax?

How much wanted you to relax? When somebody crutches first school and rips out her brains with a weight. So tell me how they did that. What do you do that? Where did I tell you what that was? When I see the breast flatters,

can you not make it? I thought you were a detective. If you're such a detective, why can't you see breastbag? I saw it everything. When I turned out of, life, dear, oh my God, you got to be up and kidding me. And now you're trying to pinpoint this on me?

It's a little strange in telling of his actual emotional control that he self-censors here. Few teens are going to actually censor themselves in the heat of genuine anger. This more than anything indicates this display is an act. He's not actually angry. He's acting angry. You know what? Tell your posture that I don't have a moment. I don't care.

You don't have any remorse for this? I don't got little remorse for you. You know? Hmm. But you ain't got nothing to better than you at your time? To my dad? Is that what my dad does you? You want to know what?

My dad doesn't work. Holmes is true. If you don't understand, that guy right there don't care about me. You want to know what? He does care about you. Really? It would have been better for the detective. to agree with them rather than disagreeing to further damage rapport.

Or if not agreeing, then he should have asked for more information. However, this may be the root of where his anger is coming from here. He thinks nobody cares about him and sees himself as a victim. He brought me out of his house the other weekend because his wife that I didn't appreciate them. Sit down to the kids all that time. No, you don't go tell me. You know you do?

You don't even know. What makes this interrogation all the more disturbing is that the detectives are only getting a small glimpse into Ethan's short temper. But his family is all too familiar with the teenagers' intensifying anger. As investigators sit down with Craig, Ethan's father,

he provides a brief insight into the troubled life that his son is leading. What I feel like I need to tell you right now is, oh God! Well, that's something we're trying to piece together, sir. I'd like to chat with you. I'd give you some time here to kind of collect yourself. I'm ready to chat.

He said he'd been wandering around all night or walking around all night. And then I called to the place. He's sent death. And I couldn't get out of him. But I can tell you the first thing that came to my mind is he's responsible. Apparently, Ethan initially started to walk to his father's house, following his mother's death. However, he apparently hitchhiked the rest of the way.

When he arrived, Craig's wife opened the dorm. She was shocked to see that not only was Ethan incessantly crying, but he was also wearing a Kevlar vest. The protection gear made his visit all the more suspicious. When he spoke with his father, Ethan told him that they should not go to Judy's home as her face was beat down. Horrified, Craig immediately called the police. Sitting down with investigators, Craig mentions that Judy had confided in him on several previous occasions that she was scared of her own son.

And not for just one reason alone. As it turns out, Ethan was living a shocking double life, and behind closed doors, he was anything but your typical teenager. My mom puts dinner on the table. She gets me nice clothes. I have no reason to do nothing to her. I have no reason to do nothing at all. Don't move in? Can I ask me this, Ethan?

What do you want to ask? For chances, there are another part of Ethan? I can tell there's a part to love. A part of Ethan. Another part. Another part. Wait, my, some heart to me, personality, I'm going to tell you, honks, MPD don't work. FPD's got more than a bond to personalities.

Ethan makes some very strange mouth movements, like he's talking faster than he means to, and isn't sure what to say. His fake laugh ends as quickly as it begins and signals a rapid shift in his expressed emotions. This is pretty similar to the Patrick Bateman laugh in the movie and is one of many indications that Ethan is trying to act like the character, though the similarities only become eerie as the interview continues. Unfortunately, the interrogation methods are being poorly implemented

and the officer is jumping all over the place. Ethan is literally laughing at all the interrogation techniques because they're not being executed properly. Are you why I do some little schizophrenia in my head? I'll tell you because I know all the symptoms. Don't tell me that's another part of Ethan. Ethan is eating and that's it. Ethan has shifted the ways talking, which is a marked change in the interrogation. By saying MPD, he's referring to multiple personality disorders.

order, but the detective probably just means how everyone has a good side and a bad side. Ethan takes it to the extreme, so it sounds completely insane, which is a common tactic among individuals trying to be deceptive and is a form of manipulation. The tactic is to take something small and innocuous and turn it into a mountain so you can deny it without actually lying. Ethan was facing a multitude of personal struggles, though he doesn't mention it. In 2006, the year prior, he was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and struggled with anxiety. He was prescribed various medications and began seeing a counselor who became very concerned in regards to his condition. They believed him to be a psychopath.

Technically, psychopathy isn't a separate diagnosis from antisocial personality disorder, though a psychopath is part of a small percentage of individuals with ASPD, who would be at the extreme end of the disorder spectrum. However, as he's 16, Ethan would not technically qualify for ASPD, but in extreme circumstances, individuals may get labeled as having a personality disorder with antisocial characteristics a bit younger than 18. I think your burden pretty bad.

I think you're all right. I'll follow this. You ain't know. You don't tell me about you. Tell me what you're thinking about it. You ain't know nothing. You tell him me you understand. We make mistakes.

You know what? Do you know how many Ethan's I've talked to that's been set in that chair and 31 years of police work? Thousands of it. Really? Congratulations. And you know how many Ethan's have set right there and told me, I don't know nothing about nothing and I put him in prison for murder?

Every one of them. Every one of them. Every one of them. And you might be an exception. Yeah. Normally, the detective shouldn't remind a suspect of the impendent. consequences at this point in the interrogation. What appears to be happening is that the detective is getting irritated with Ethan and taking it personally. He's not cooperating and he's being pretty

disrespectful and it almost comes across as threatening. You want to know what person is? I sit in a cell full time. Do you okay with that? Are you dumb? Do you not understand how that's just the worst? That's when a Donate's correctional system I ever heard of. Holmes, I get sick in a cell for the rest of my life and be happy. I know your name. But no, you think you're somehow smarter than me. You've been on the horse for 30 years. You know what?

I talked to your game detective too. You guys was an idiot. Think that I'm from some game or something trying to tell me. I'm like, like, Fittie said, you guys don't listen to you. detectives. It's like, you know what? I can see this. 20 minutes there.

You'd be ass by telling you, I don't like this. I don't really like this full court scene. All that gangster scene, it's all just music. It's all just show. But no, Holmes is trying to tell me what it is because he's so smart. Typically, an innocent person gets angry

when they're being accused of something they didn't do. But Ethan is unusually combative. Rather than being a sign of innocence, Ethan's faked and exaggerated anger is an indication of his immaturity and apparent social skills deficits. Innocent people get truly angry and real anger or emotion doesn't flip back and forth like a switch. Ethan switches it off and on. As well, a mature liar knows that getting angry makes people not like you, and that affects whether they believe you or not.

It's why typical liars and killers don't react as much to accusation. and interrogation, because they know it will affect their chances of being believed. Teenagers, for the most part, haven't had the time to perfect it. As well, Ethan has learned aggression and anger gets him his way. Something that most people usually learned doesn't work as effectively as sweet-talking by the time they're a bit older. However, this is of no surprise, given his past. Although Ethan was mostly compliant to those in positions of authority, most notably as teachers,

he didn't show the same level of respect for his mother. Their relationship began to deteriorate when Ethan became controlling and would apparently bully Judy into getting what he wanted. For instance, he told his mother that he would like to use the master bedroom as his own and supposedly forced her into moving her belongings into the smallest room. He then took over the living room, where he apparently pushed all of the furniture to one side of the room so he could place his chair in front of the TV.

Ethan would mostly use it while playing video games and watching movies. On the occasions when he didn't get his way, things would supposedly escalate and in a most violent manner. Ethan's brazen comments and interrogation show his lack of respect for authority, which is a red flag indicating possible conduct disorder or oppositional defiant disorder. He could be diagnosed with either of these disorders at his age and their precursors to ASPD. This isn't going to go away. I don't know it. Because this is your guy's stirl, whatever.

It's just going to go away. Yeah, we're going to make a decision I'm about to do with you when we leave this room. What you think we should do with you? I actually think I want to let me go. The officer walked right into that one. Ethan seems to be running this interrogation. Notice the shift in his hand gestures to more lively movements. This is a marked change that he's feeling more confident.

Just let me go, let me be. What do you just ask me, what should we do? What kind of question? So you think for what had you did? What I did? What I did? As I told you. Nobody goes in the front.

Because no one gets in the front, nobody goes in the back. And it's just you? Really? Oh, okay. So, uh, so, uh, you know, so what we could be saying here is, uh, You're going to be arrested for murder. There's no one that could be hiding in the garage, no one would be hiding no one, no one.

Of course not, because you guys are all smart. You guys got taps all over my house or something. Are you ready to listen to me now for a minute? No. Would you listen to me come in? Did I just tell you twice? No. If perchance I brought your Dan in here,

what you're talking to go to? Oh, yeah, right. Would you? Yeah, right. Did you not even hear me? I said no, at least how many times? Does that not compute? No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Here, let me spell it out for you. N! Oh! Would you explain this too much? Okay. Next, the interrogation moves on to the topic of one of Ethan's greatest fascinations. There's an idea of a Patrick Baitman, but he's simply not there. You could be this way.

Business. Business. He's a business. He's a big corporate business. Like more much. It's just right here a movie? Is that where I'm trying to show? Is that a movie? Yeah, it is. Does something happen in that movie? Does somebody get hurt in that movie? Are you trying to tell me but I don't know?

I'm not. I haven't seen it. Of course, but if you don't understand... Does somebody get rid of the movie? It's a book, too. Okay, so... You have to know the book before you can watch a movie. before you can watch a movie.

Same thing with any book. I guess my question is, help me because I haven't seen the movie. Who gets hurt in the movie? People, they get in his way. And then how doesn't they get hurt? Any way they can. Does he hurt his mother?

Man, he doesn't remember. He mentioned his mother barely. In the movie, it doesn't mention his mother. Nothing. In a book, it mentions his mother, that their family's dysfunctional. If you don't follow his reading, because you don't understand nothing about nothing. Tell me how you see your family in relation to this.

Do you see your family? I don't see my family in relation to that. Ethan's favorite movie would turn out to be the film adaptation of his most treasured book, the controversial yet popular American Psycho. Ethan soon began to emulate Patrick Bateman's character. He apparently forced his mother to buy him expensive skin care products, like those that Patrick Bateman uses in the movie. In addition, Ethan supposedly bullied Judy into buying him a white comforter for his bed.

Patrick Bateman also had the same one. There was also Ethan's obsession with fitness, yet another similarity between him and the film's main character. As well, Ethan's mention of Patrick Bateman's family being dysfunctional is a further indication that he relates to and feels a strong affiliation with the character. As the interrogation progresses, the detectives will learn that there were even more well. that Ethan tried to become Patrick Bateman. You'll notice that Ethan also has the book Without Conscience, too, and some other fairly advanced clinical

and forensics books. Either he's trying to understand himself or he's been planning. Why would I go to my dad's house and we're talking to him or not this? You don't mind. If I did this? No, why?

Why? Because I was supposed to feel guilt? Did you feel bad. You've been talking to my... My therapist. Can I? Can you? Can you know they didn't get out on my side for me? I really do. You feel sorry for me? I really do. I feel sorry for you. I'm not the one that's gonna be charged with it. Yeah but you're the one that's living in the world where you're controlled. Nobody goes to do. Really? Because you got cameras on that side there? We haven't processed seeing yet to see exactly what you left in there. Really? Yeah, we haven't. What? What? What I mean what we will do? We'll go process it and then we'll cover. I can talk to you and tell you what we found.

Okay. So what you find in there? Is that it? All right. It's only fair to go to do it? I already tell what you find in there. I covered up everything. Okay.

I covered up everything because it's a horrible side. I tried to wipe off the blood. Why? Why? Why don't you call the cops and say, My mom's hurt? Because what's the first thing that can't happen? You guys even accuse me!

Like you're doing right now. Relax, yeah. No. Because you know what? You're not thinking of other alternatives. They could escape through the inside window. The detectives do have to consider that Ethan may be telling the truth. If there was an intruder, it's possible that they could have committed the heinous crime and escaped through a window.

But investigators find this to be unlikely. Especially given the fact that it would have been a random killing, Judy was not the kind of person to have enemies. The dedicated mother worked as a special education. teacher at Eagle High School. Family, friends, and her fellow co-workers described her as the epitome of kindness. However, Judy's life was full of trials and tribulations. She and Ethan's father divorced after having two children together, and in the year 2000, she was reportedly hit by a car while walking. The incident would almost claim her life. It was following her recovery that she went back to college and pursued a degree in special education, wanting to help others.

overcome their disabilities, she took on what she felt to be the most rewarding job, teaching. To think that someone would want to take her life was almost incomprehensible. But evil comes in all forms, and it knows no bounds. Just ask you what you want to fight. Well, we're going to go out and take a look at she wants to tell me what you want. I don't know what there is to fight. In what room? All of it.

All of it. Can I get your glass of water? Do you want to class with water? I didn't drink water. I already drinking out water today. Would you like some more? Why would I want some more? I already tell you,

on my white sheets, we're going to go back. They did? On my white sheets, no, you don't want to listen? Yeah, I'm listening. On my white sheets, there's a stain of black from the weights.

I love that man like no weather. I made a white for a reason. And wouldn't I wipe that black off if I did that myself? It's bad timing to interrupt and leave when Ethan is ready to talk. This specific officer hasn't been doing well with Ethan so far, and he probably should have left earlier. However, though this tactic may seem counterproductive, Ethan is escalated and the officer hasn't done anything to de-escalate him,

and he's still not responding well to him. Walking away, letting Ethan calm down and trying again with someone else is actually the best course of action at this point. As you'll see, they'll next try a good cop ploy and try to calm Ethan down. This attempt will have a bit more success. What black stuff on your sheets? There's black state on the end of the bed. On the end of bed that are made by the weights.

I saw it when I did not. Just relax, man. He's not. He didn't think he's number one top cop. Okay, he's gone. I'm not understanding there's like from a, like from the weights, you know how they create that black stuff. Yeah, they make a black stain.

Waves on and off and change it all the kind of creates. They make a black stink. On your sheets, but how do they get on your sheet? Chow. Whoever comes in there, brings it in my room to make less noise. What kind of weight was it? Was it the weight or a barbell or a dumbbell? What they did with it was they put it as a barbell?

on and they put one of the things right here, the car. One of the, one of the spinning things on this end, all I got you. Two, or two tens, I can't remember. I think it's two, two tens. I can't remember. Two tens on each side. Right, on one side.

One ten and then a tenths are twenty pounds. One side that has weights on it, and they clunger. You want, have you ever seen that? I thought they get on your bed. How did they get in my bed? To wait together on your bed? Well, yeah. You're a smart kid.

You're a young man, aren't you? And you're a very smart young man. I'm smart at any where I know. This may be a touch of narcissism showing, or it may be Ethan mimicking Bateman's character. At this point, it's hard to know what is actually Ethan and what is the character that he's wholeheartedly embraced as his model. You know, what's...

Street smarts. I want to do the street smarts. I got better than he. He's stupid idiot. Everyone I do. Everyone's too easy to figure out. You know what happens is. They figure out what they want, what their means are we, but to say them.

The ability to understand what people want and the right things to say and do to manipulate them to do what you want is a trademark of a budding psychopath. You had to learn about that, right? No, I didn't. I just had to watch them. And I can see it. You're smart. You're smart.

You're a smart young man. You learned this stuff yourself, didn't you? You write books, you educate yourself, learning stuff, learn and learn people. Right. Street smarts come just imagine. Yeah.

Street smarts are caused street smarts for me who will either have or no. Right. People around here don't. So you get educated on the street. I get educated by me myself. Right. I can see people.

I can see the means, their want, their desires. If I want someone in your, to even, you know, to decide to hear that and that I want them to, you know, maybe like them or do a favor for them. They say what they want to hear, I do that all the time for people. I tell them for my friends all the time when they chie on their girlfriends, to tell them exactly what they want to hear. Fun.

It's to be because people are stupid. If Ethan's rambling is true, this is the definition. of someone with antisocial traits. Individuals with antisocial personality disorder have a keen awareness of people's needs, their wants, and their desires. Ethan likely feels a bit more comfortable with this detective, so he's essentially divulging important information

about his personality and his ability to be manipulative and to lie. It's disturbing the way he views other people just by what they can offer him. But this is also very classic narcissistic traits. people's value lies only in what they have to offer. This could also be another moment of Ethan mirroring Bateman's character. Ethan has brought up how he uses people, such as his mom spending money on him, that his friends are only useful to him for better weights.

He also claims that he's smarter than everyone and is always telling people what they should do and points out that he sucks up to teachers and attempts to manipulate them. Let's just forget about the cameras. Okay, we get so long enough and so mad about these cameras. Yeah. Let's just forget about it. Let's talk about your relationship with your mother. You guys, and you guys want to look to all the clothes I have,

I have a lot of nice clothes. She buys me nice stuff. My colognes and my colognes are money code. That's $70 right there. John Paul Boudier. I spent $100 on that and some de jorri. She spends nice money on me. Okay.

No one's saying that she's not doing that, okay? Yeah, but now you're telling me that I'm killing her for the dear God fund that I'm so dumb I get influenced by books. You know, there's a lot of people, a lot of things that influence our lives. There's a lot of things that if you know that, right? People get influenced your friends a little bit. My friends? Yeah. You should?

Because you're a nice guy. And so people get you right. People, if you have friends, you have friends. You have friends. All your friends have, everyone has influences each other, right? That's why you have friends. Because you have things in common. That's why you're friends.

I haven't got more things than power with my friends. Nothing at all. I hate my friends. Yeah, that is fine. He has better ways that he just wanted to work out. I just needed a better, you know, since he's got better weights, just that's why not taking advantage? The guy's a little small guy.

He said anything. Different from what I said, he knows I take him. Do you think that influences him a little bit, though, that if you, he knows you can beat him up? I don't care if I influence my friends because I don't like my friends. Well, what I'll get back to is you said that only stupid people are influenced. My friends are stupid. Okay. My friends are dumb.

I don't know your friends, so I'm not going to say what they're idiots. I don't know your friends, so I'm not going to say what the thing. When I, you know what, anything, when I give them a piece of advice, we're talking about you. telling what they should do, they never listen. It always turns out the way that I told them that it happened if they didn't listen. Like, whoa, you're right. It's like, no, duh. I know how the world works.

I'm not freaking retarded by you guys. Even though it seems like everything is making Ethan mad, he seems to be intentionally pulling the detectives into arguments to distract them, and it's working really well as a great deflector. They're caught up trying to argue points with them and engaging in a power struggle. So you make all your no choices. No one influences you at all.

Man, I can develop little portion in to the way I've had. I develop that. Sure. But I don't change my whole character upon that. I can. I can change any character to any character I want to be. Because that's easy to you. Right.

Typically, when an interrogator offers a theme, such as being influenced in this case, they would move on from it if the suspect doesn't agree. However, the officer may be trying to agree with them so he will calm down and move on. He's also trying to stroke Ethan's ego, since he's probably figured out by now that Ethan has narcissistic and antisocial tendencies. One thing that is particularly interesting is that this disdain of his friends also is reflective of the Patrick Bateman character. It also sounds like he's getting this from his books on psychopathy. He's molded himself into this person and just built his world around it.

People with antisocial traits are often considered chameleons in the sense that they can adapt themselves to practically any situation and can warm up to other people easily in order to manipulate them and get what they want. It seems that Ethan did just that. However, when it came to his mother, he supposedly felt that intimidation alone would be enough to control her. According to police documents, Judy would become upset on various occasions when Ethan's friends were at the house. Supposedly, a few of the high schoolers would use substances, and Judy did not approve. However, Ethan grew angry and regularly argued with his mother, even reportedly punching a hole in one of the home's walls, but this was just the tip of the iceberg.

over there, you know, doesn't, hasn't done his homework on, you know, just because I watch movies? Does he not understand that most of my books? My reference books are all on psychopaths. The psychopathic mind. Right. Because I've always been trying to figure this out. Who are some of the greatest and smart? Well, actually Donna was a sissy.

Dacey. He died. How many people did he kill? What was he? He was a hired deputy at times. Crown, knew different people, Ted Bundy. He had a great life.

This man did so many things. Great lawyer, represented himself really great. Even the judge, but he said, I'm sorry to do this, because I would have loved. Because I would have loved to have you practiced in my court. Oh, yeah, I didn't know that part. Yeah, well, he said that the guy works with the Republican Party for a little bit. He worked with some of that.

He did a lot of things that were just out and amazing of character. It all continues down to one thing. How does his mind work? American cycle, that's just because that's what my author studies on. We got to do a big project on this author. I like Bradley Easton Ellis. He's a good writer. But all this stuff, I don't know the name they call for it, the writers call for it,

but it's all about making fun of the way certain things are because it's truly there, but you know, they kind of take it to a point of, I mean, you see, this is truly, truly, I mean, you know, absurd. Though these are accurate observations, it seems that Ethan has taken the contents of the story to heart. Well, just because of personal reason book, doesn't mean that's how their life is going to be. Let me ask you this, Ethan. Have you ever heard of cases before or people before? And you've read a lot, so you probably have.

Have you ever heard of people before who have been influenced by, listen, about spyroats. Everyone's heard of the call on the magazines and all that. I'm talking about that. That's that's... That was all those things. But people use us escape goats. Anyone could use that as a scapegoat.

Right. Sure. It's just they don't, they're too dumb. Of course they want to hurt someone, but they're just too dumb to create their own way. Okay. That's how it is. People just don't.

understanding like that. But they're not smart to create their own way. They have to be driven by somebody else. They have that drive. They're just too dumb to actually make it happen

without having to see something or watching something. Any of those stupid quentin telling you of these, dear God, I hate that guy with a passion. It seems like Ethan is going off on a tangent, but the detective switches gears and further questions him regarding his relationship

with his mother. One moment I've been getting along for a while now, you know, there's been times where, you know, she'd gotten on my nerves because she said my friends were too loud or something like to, like, you know, shut your door. That's normal. But, you know, and we got into argument. It's like that. But whatever my old man's saying about her calling him up, man, she wouldn't even call to

If you ever had arguments with your mom or dad said you come pick you out, you stayed in the nuts with dad's up. Yeah, she does that all the time. That's because she's a whining baby. She's in the drama. Yeah, she's a whining baby. My dad comes up the next day and I was ticked because I'm watching this one we had Dread TV. I was watching the Lawrence Yard, the old version. I never saw that.

I can't rent that. He makes me turn it off. He's trying to talk to me. He calls up an officer because I walk out. I'm like, you know what, you're full crap. Because he's trying to tell me how I should feel and tell me how life is. Guy hasn't been around since I was six.

He's done since I was six. I made him cry when the officer left. No, I mean I cried before. But he tried to hold it in. And when I went outside, the officer was like, well, it looks like your family about the crap. Like, yeah, they came out. sometimes kind of do that.

He's like, well, you know, you bet you seem to be a nice person and, you know, you seem to do good, just, you know, be careful and stuff. You know, he didn't tell, I don't think, he told the officer, the actual situation. I'm sure all that he told the officer was that I was being disrespected. Instead of his taking money from him. And so was that. I was like a year ago.

Oh, a year ago. Ethan fails to mention the terrifying reason behind Judy's concerning phone calls to her ex-husband. But that will be revealed shortly. Do you think that both your mom and your dad are kind of real dramatic? My mom, she has, you know, she's depressed. And I'm pretty sure that she was on a scale. I mean, I couldn't, you know, on, on, I'm. She was at least on the scale by the way she acts.

Parents, sometimes it's tough, man, being 16, getting along with your parents all the time, isn't it? I remember. Well, I remember being grounded for a year. Back in those days, that's what the parents did. They take a swing at you until you learn how to catch that hand. It's like, uh-uh. You know, you catch that hand, they got no power to do it.

Ethan claims that he can't remember the last time that he and Judy got into an argument. He states that recently they've been getting along. However, his definition of a harmonious relationship may be drastically different than that of his mothers. You know, I just talking my step-mom about getting in with someone because I can't see him every week. I can't really ever see him every two weeks if I'm lucky. But it says to me, my dad, you know, I'm like, well, I'd like to, you know, get in with someone. that's, you know, every weekend. I was like, well, we just do two weeks, you know,

every two weeks, be a lot less cheap. I was ready to slap that. This is where he got that stuff. He plays music at bars to get a little less of cash. The money that's made, it's made all by the wife. You know, I already know when I went in there. He already thought that I did that. that I was the one that did that I could tell, you know.

I didn't even know. Tell why the way he talked to look at him. I didn't look at him, man. You didn't look at him at him? No, I, I was trying to hold up vomit, trying to, you know, bawled my eyes out and stuff. I ain't never seen dead people. I ain't never seen dead people real life before I left.

started to wash out the walls, you know, but as like, you know, there's too much. It was a big, too sweat. Put the dog in the cat, her room, I mean, dog, cat were already in her, but the dog was shaking. The cat, I had a, I saw her, she usually, I mean, she's usually in that way, but she was in the way, because she's all right and stuff. And I put her in there, just, we had some stuff full of dog, food cat, and I just, just, I was on the floor, fill out some water stuff, put a candle in there and just close the door, turn out his light. I was scared.

There's a strange, sudden change in his speech patterns here, almost like a different person is talking. This is probably more normal speech for Ethan, and his other speech patterns have been him acting like a character modeled on Bateman. It's an unnerving display and perfectly demonstrates the way that a psychopath can be a chameleon mimicking mannerisms and gestures that aren't inherent to themselves. Ethan states that he used a couple of washracks to wipe the blood off the walls, but it's still extremely suspicious that he even cleaned part of the crime scene before going to his dad's house. You can help out of that house or anything like that?

I'll turn a certain way. Apparently on January 25th, 2007, while Ethan's neighbor was driving around at 1.30 in the morning, he spotted Ethan walking along the street. According to police documents, he shouted Ethan's name out of his car window. It was loud enough to where there was no doubt that Ethan could hear him. However, the teenager kept walking. This officer is really doing a much better job with Ethan. He's much more relaxed. He's much more relaxed. and there are no major signs of anxiety. That's what I'm saying. I'm going to understand why I don't want to take some of this.

The world's saying is we're the only one there. And we're just trying to understand it. Because there's something. Talk to me, man. Tell you what's going on. Man, if I really wanted to. Tell what you're thinking of it. Wouldn't I put it out of her misery?

I mean, truly, I mean, wouldn't it true? What would that way be? What would be the easiest possible way? Not the way she went. Okay, what would be the easiest possible? I don't think if anything would be if they're ever misery in an easy way. It's fine.

Do you guys have guns in the house at all? I have some hair stock. All the guys is not loaded. In cases, they got it's a dole. You know, because... Like you said, she did it do. I wish she would have happened to me. How general this was to your mom.

They had it. I have knives. They're... This person who's dark, I know they had a knife. Okay. And I know it's long. Long? It's a long knife.

Okay. Any of the ones I have. I did it. It's my weight. It's my knife. I mean, truly, check it. I mean, truly, you know what, I mean, there probably not gonna be nothing on cameras, or I don't know.

You didn't need you do that, but I don't remember this man. No, she was dead by that. That she was already dead? Yeah. Okay. She was already dead, but... You're not. What kind of my brother?

It's a small Winchester. Ethan claims to have got the knife from his father, and he states that he keeps it in his bedroom at his mother's house. The only thing I can show that, it wasn't me, is, look how deep the knife cuts were. That knife couldn't do deep knife cuts. to do the deep knife. Well, no, no, I mean, it's not dull.

Oh, lengthwise? Lengthwise, it's how I'm saying. So the blade on the knife is long enough to do a lot? I don't know. I mean, truly, that's the only way that, I mean, if cameras show something different, I don't know what to do, man. Wait, so, so, all you did with that knife was stick in your head? Yeah, I mean,

you know. her head that go, I don't know, he made me just watch me. You know, he had a knife that you were on her head. When it cracked your goal, there was a brain that was, I don't know what it was. We're just like the knife that out. Well, he cracked her right here, man. So her eye was closed, but you could see that she's not in the eyes, but, you know, you could see inside. made me a lodge and just put in there.

Inside her brain? Her brain? Or her? It's like the brain because it must have been cracked because there was blood everywhere. She loved you. I mean, that's... I don't know. I love you did.

I love you did. It might have been my brother. I don't know. But, you know, earlier, I don't, I mean, I'm sure it wasn't. Because earlier, you know, she went out to get with him to buy groceries. Groceries for us, so not to give me a little life. I'm not. During the afternoon of Wednesday, January 24th, just before her death,

Judy, her son Mason and his girlfriend, went grocery shopping together around 6 p.m. Following their errand run, Judy made her way back to her house, while Mason and his girlfriend departed for their home. Once they arrived, Mason realized that they had accidentally taken some of Judy's food, and he quickly drove to her house. According to police documents, Mason only saw Ethan at the house, but not his mother. It's unclear as to what time this took place. However, Mason left the residents thinking nothing of the situation.

Little did he know he would never see his mother again. Listen, what I'm talking about is being able to say he was back on and say, it books me in the left. Don't I do? I saw her face. There's a delay with him. his illustrators here. His words come out before his hands hit the table, which is another instance of brain and body misalignment. Ethan seems to resort to aggression when he's angry and emotional.

He may have been having an emotional moment here, and then it's like a switch has flipped. This is a red flag indicating that when he gets angry, he may not be able to control his impulses. He seems very used to using his size and aggression to intimidate. and control others. Like his mother. The officer handles this perfectly by not even seeming to blink and stands his ground.

But he also doesn't push, just allows Ethan to react and show more of who he really is. Ethan turns dark here as he maintains unwavering eye contact with the detective. The teenager's intimidation tactics are like those of someone much older

and far more experienced at be. victimizing others. He inquires about the detective's personal life, but the detective leaves before Ethan can berate him any further. While he's waiting, Ethan begins a string of odd behavior. Finally, the detective reads a redress. Finally, the detective reads, enters the room where Ethan appears to have calmed down. I saw this guy in the mom's room, so it was real dark, you have your mother, right? He said he had a nice.

Ethan claims that he has no idea what the person looked like, but he alleges that it could have been his brother, Mason. Is that, you want to be watched, and I move for some money, right? And flow around, and she has a purse at the privacy.

I mean, yeah, I'm able to tell me. when you didn't knock on the door. Freight of this guy. How could he didn't run out the drug's door? Yeah, just running right out to that dress door. I was in. No close. You're taking.

No, I mean, he's a hell of a insurance. No fear at all. Could you run over to some friend's house or something like that. I'd call the police. When he's confronted with something, Ethan keeps saying, yeah, but. He's trying to weakly justify what he did, and the detective is slowly poking more and more holes in his story. The detective is likely under the impression that Ethan's spinning a complete lie.

However, he doesn't want to outright confront him again, seeing how the teenager's emotions can go from one extreme to the next. Why next change the message on the phone? Over to our house. or calling, you know, because I tried to find her cell. I couldn't find it. Why are you trying to? Do you see that? Come home from my surprise, but ask me.

I'm just, you know, if they call ahead calls or if my spoon calls, that's the message again, we're out somewhere else. Because I was just one on her streets, I didn't know where I was going first. Strangely enough, following his mother's gruesome death, Ethan decided to change the voice message on the answering machine for their home phone. This is a window residence if you're trying to reach you or Ethan. We're actually we'll be in back by next week. But this was only one of two messages that Ethan made.

In another chilling recording, we're able to hear what he sent to one of his friends the same night his mother died. The messages are caused for suspicion to say the least, but the disturbing fact lies in their similarities to the movie American Psycho. During the film after murdering one of his victims, Patrick Bateman changes their answering machine, stating that they would be out of town. After taking the lives of several other victims,

he calls his secretary, informing her that he would not be coming into work the next day. The eerie resemblance between Ethan's behavior and the film character's actions have authorities extremely on edge, as they brace themselves for what's about to come next. And this guy, he said he's smaller than you. And you have a knife in your hand and this whole time inside the house.

And you never once try to take him off. He never once. I mean, he's a smaller guy than you. And you're a big knife. It's like if he's got one in me, getting the tape more chances. I need one wrong. You can just slice me for that. How do you think this man got into your house?

I didn't know what I need it. There's no one's probably. You get into the bag, you can get it to windows, the backyard. Most of what a lot of them are just to let me know or found window. You can just look over it. The explanation for this. Come to your house and doing this. Yeah, but they're not, but they've been.

I mean, they know where I live. Ethan is again saying, you know, which is another sign of deception, because he's trying to convince the detective. A question that he never read. really answers at this point is why he didn't try to attack or stop the person who killed his mom. The officer does a good job getting him to admit he knows how to fight and take care of himself, which is a great way to confront this inconsistency in his story. There's a reason. You just can't come to an understanding. I didn't tell me your reason.

I don't know the reason, Ethan. That's why I want to talk to you. That's why he keeps talking to you. Ethan's attempt to put on an innocent facade is masking an array of dark and twisted secrets. But little does he know, authorities are learning new information as they speak. Judy's best friend has plenty to say about the disturbed 16-year-old. And he bullied her. And she says, he scares me. She said that. I'm not making it up.

And that's what I told her. I said, you know, it's not normal to be afraid of your own kid. And I said, he needs his ass kick. That's what I said. And I said, you can arrange that. But, you know, she's my best friend. And I don't want him to be hurt or anything. And neither did she.

I don't think she wanted him to hate her anymore than he already did, which is sad because she was the only one that did anything for him ever. How did she spend her time after school? She left. The best people do that a lot. She didn't like to do things in her house. I know she was out in her backyard, turning over the dirt. And said, well, you know, plant grass?

Or she was, no, I was just digging. I'm like, okay. And she walked a lot. She said, why she liked to be outside so much? You know, I kind of, now I look back and I think, well, perhaps she didn't want to be in healthy, Ethan, and, you know, that stress, the tension, cut it with a knife.

Even when I'd go over there, it's an uncomfortable feeling. Apparently, Ethan's concerning behavior had drastically escalated during the course of the previous year. The once-quiet teenager was transforming into someone completely different. He reportedly became abrasive while puffing his chest out at everyone. Not only that, but according to police documents, Ethan was supposedly using various substances, though this has never been confirmed. In an anonymous statement given to authorities, one of Ethan's assumed to be friends stated that he'd apparently taken some of his pills to a party. where he allegedly handed them out to other students, the reason being, so that the partygoers

could snort them, and the behaviors yet again mimic those of Patrick Bateman. During the course of the story, Patrick's dismissiveness, substance use, and aggression, all increased in intensity, much like Ethan's alleged recent conduct. But that wasn't all. One of Judy's neighbors recalled the roaring arguments that could be overheard at Judy's residence. They stated that the altercation seemed to have recently leveled off. However, Judy apparently expressed her feelings of terror to them in regard to her youngest son. Despite her fear, Judy never gave up on working towards a better relationship with Ethan,

but he was not so willing. In fact, Ethan's rage was supposedly morphing into horrifying acts of violence against his own mother. He'd allegedly hit Judy at one point, although the incident isn't clearly explained. According to police documents, he would reportedly go so far as throwing her against a wall during an argument before spitting in her face. According to one anonymous statement, Ethan reportedly claimed, I hate my mom, I want to kill her. In addition, police would learn that Ethan apparently told his brother that Judy would eventually get what she deserved. She had no control. He had no discipline.

I thought before I heard the weapon thing earlier that day, I thought, you know, he just, I bet he just snapped. They were arguing or something, and he just snapped and he'd throw the crap out of her. Judy was living in constant fear, yet she still wanted nothing but the best for her child. And everyone could see that, but Ethan, he wouldn't be satisfied until he got exactly what he wanted, even if it meant committing the unthinkable. Why would it come into your house and sneak around and go to your weight room? I mean, how would put anyone know where your weights are?

If they come to that window, then you just found the weights. Okay. So you were going to come to someone's house and weights. And manipulate these weights. It is a weapon. What would make you pick those weights up from the room that you're already in, go into an adjoining room, or not an adjoining room, but another room, And then manipulate those weights in another room before I'm going out into the hallway.

See, that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Yeah. It sounds like someone lives there. Great big guy like you, big strong guy sitting in a chair in the living room. Your small little mother is sleeping in her bed. And this guy comes into the house with a weight and manipulates this weight in your room as a weapon. and it comes out of the room, why would he choose your mother over you? Aren't you the threat to him?

I don't know. Aren't you the big day? Man, why are you asking me these questions? How am I supposed to think of it in his way? I got this guy. Because you're the one who's telling me this. I'm telling you as about as much as I can figure. If you guys have got some other explanation, maybe he didn't.

Maybe he changed the way it's never. I don't know. I can't. I don't know. All I can do is assume. But that's not it. You're assuming. It can't know. And that's why you're talking. But I know. Like I know. That's why you would know that you picked a way up on one room, take it into another room, use the bed. So it doesn't make the sound. All you can tell is I'm speculating. Some guys are going to come in to rob. He's going to. the cat already has a knife. It's going to take time to

manipulate a weight. Now he has a weight and then nice. What happens if you don't stand a person in the right spot? That's right. They make noise. Man, I'm only speculating. Okay, what are you guys doing?

See, I can just say the same thing about you. You know, everything you're telling me, how do I know you didn't do this? I can tell you where I was at. So it wasn't at your house. Ethan begins another attempted deflection, but the detective doesn't play his game. Instead, he questions Ethan about a most unsettling topic.

My question for you is a guy who studies these psychology books that you have. Yeah. And these crime scene evidence books that you have. And all these video... What crime scene evidence books? Crime scene investigation books in your room. What crime scene investigation books? And the videos that you have?

No, what crime scene investigation books? I want to say in your room. I got one forensic book that I've never read. You want to know who gave that to my grandparents? I didn't ever read that. Mark, still in your room. Okay. Okay.

You have these psychology books. We have all these videos on serial killers. You have all these books on serial killers. I have all these books. No, I don't. So let me do. How many books do I have on... A guy who reads all that stuff?

No, no. How many books do I have on cereal books? One. One. I have all the other ones. And top of that... What's that book called? It was called American Sanko.

Okay. So on top of that, okay, so you read all this stuff, right? I read that book, yeah. What do you do in the morning? Every morning when you get up, what do you do? Wake up, 6.45? I usually sleep in a little bit. Take a shower.

We'll put my contacts in, take a shower. Then I go, you know, sometimes I have my clothes already out. Other times I just, you know, grab my clothes as I go. You ever put any stuff on your face? Not usually. I don't have enough time. Okay. We've done that the past.

It's kind of a routine when you get in the morning. You put this cream stuff on your face. Trim stuff. Mask, mask-type stuff? I've used a mask. I've used a mask pill. It's going to relax for your face. This is intriguing, considering that Patrick Bateman had a very elaborate morning routine

that included exercise as well as a multi-step skincare regimen that he followed religiously. Of course, what 16-year-old boy wouldn't enjoy using a calming face mask? Or at least Ethan would like us to believe that he wasn't modeling his own behavior after that of his fictional bloodthirsty idol. It only becomes more eerie from here. I'll tell you how little studying I've done on actual serial killers. All those books, if you'd like to read through them, one, I'll tell you which books I've read. And two, if you read through them, most of them are about killers.

Most of them are about the manipulative type. The type that just live on every day, they're everyday citizens, don't get into big trouble. Which books are these? What books are these things? The psychopath books. Okay. By Robert D. Hare. Is there a series of him?

His, he has, he doesn't want to actually create the PCLR. It's the psychopathy checklist. It's ironic that Ethan talked so much about how most of the books he reads are about manipulative people, and he starts to describe himself. He's been playing semantics and going down rabbit holes to avoid talking about the real issue, which is who killed his mother. Even at this point, Ethan is still trying to manipulate the officer and trying to take control of where this is going. However, the officer does a good job staying focused. Ethan's fascination with the criminal mind was of particular

notice to his teachers. During one class, Ethan apparently expressed to his fellow students that he was having thoughts of killing. Chillingly, he went on, supposedly claiming that there would be times when the thought was so overwhelming that he was unable to sleep. Ethan reportedly mentioned that he doesn't feel love or any emotion for that matter, and allegedly confided in two separate anonymous sources that he wanted to be a psychopath and a famous serial killer. In addition, he apparently spoke with one of his classmates, reportedly stating something along the lines of ripping her head off, before supposedly laughing in her face.

American psychos isn't even to have to do with real psychos. You know how false that is from how actual psychopaths are? I know. I've never been on that side. That guy is so

perfect and so well-mannered that it's impossible. Those cyclopans are impulsive. They don't respond well to irritability. This guy's too well

nice and absolutely good around people and he's not as manipulative as the natural psychopath is. It's just a book. It was almost as if he wanted to be exactly like Patrick Bateman. Ethan supposedly began to dress in business suits while carrying a briefcase, just as the fictional character does.

But most perplexing was his shift in behavior as his cold and callous demeanor was something that he wore almost as a badge of honor. And she would be lying tears and, I'd say that at altercation generally it seemed like it was he'd want to friends over and she wouldn't allow it and kind of just normal stuff that I think that he could push her around and deal away with it. I never got any problems like that a week or so ago he had kind of a blowout with my, that was the first time I was aware of seeing it firsthand that, I mean,

He exploded and was like, she was like, get out of here, taking home. And he said he was homicidal. More than once, he had an altercation at school where he was brought to the juvenile kitchen for hitting a kid or pushing a kid or something. And that's still couldn't mean. Like at that time, he said something like, so I'll just act psychotic and I'll put me in a mountain. And so, I mean, more than once, he's threatened or made comment about being committed. According to police documents, Ethan apparently wished to be committed to a mental institution,

but his request was never granted. Although it is unclear if he truly believed that he needed help. She'd call me up, Frank, and said you're good enough to come and get Ethan because I can't have him. I'm afraid you should be old dramatic. She's like, I'm afraid he's going to go in my sleep. Despite Judy's fear, it seemed like no one was listening. However, the shocking information that Ethan is about to divulge will undeniably prove that she had good reason to live in constant fear. You're a psychopath?

20. I, as a psychopath, I'd be truly impulsive. I don't get fights off you. I'm not having promiscuous sex. You know, on top of that, you can't diagnose someone. I'm at the age of 18 as a psych path. Is there anything else you want to tell me, Ethan? Anything you want to talk about?

Like what? I'm asking because I'm getting ready to walk out of here. So I'm at him, giving the opportunity for making you want to ask you about today. I do have to demonstrate. I'll arrange for you to go to the rest of here in a second, okay? No, no, wait. Okay, so what happened?

Okay, how long will I be? Like, more in here. I'll be honest with you, okay? You and your mother were in that home, okay? I remember what you guys' opinion is. And only you and your mother. You know what you guys' opinion. I'm just asking me.

I didn't ask what your opinion was. I didn't know what it is. What do you ask me? How long am I going to be here? And then where am I going to go from here? Not much longer. How much longer? How much longer?

How much longer? How much longer? And I'll decide where you're going to go from here. Where's that? Okay, well, it's either going to be in jail or I think you're going to jail. Do I get my own cell? You're not going to no attention either. Oh, do I get my own cell?

I don't know. I don't run in jail. Why do you mean your own cell? Well, no, I just like to be more alone to have to hit the chair with some. Yeah, I could actually get them sleep. I don't have my contact case either. Ethan doesn't seem to understand the magnitude of the harrowing situation at hand. His own mother is dead, but he simply doesn't care. I've been nice, but, you know, I do like me to.

There's no, I don't want to be in being. You don't have to meet me. No, I don't. What does I get you? But why are you? Why am I being me? How am I being me? I stand you to jail.

No. I'm killing your mother. Say, no, for even if she used to me of that, then tell me that I do these things, then telling me I'm a liar, and then also you're telling my brother. I can't tell me what people are mad. Tell me it those big thing. Trust me, it's not personal, all right? You killed your mother.

You'll say them. You tell me that. You tell me the truth, and I can arrange for you to get your own cell. That I can promise you. There is a law in a few states that is called the Hope of Benefit Clause. Basically, it says that a confession is inadmissible if it was induced by the remotest fear of injury. This is very rare, and it usually involves a statement made after the person is threatened to be physically harmed, or promise that they would receive a lesser sentence if they confess.

In this case, Ethan asked for a private cell, and the officer said he would see what he could do. The officer also said, tell me the truth. truth and I will give you the cell. However, it's important to remember that the Supreme Court has said that police can lie to suspects and the officer could be lying. In this case, though, it's not coercion because Ethan said he would tell the truth if he got his own cell, and the officer knows that this is a juvenile case and because of the charges would get his own cell anyway. I sure, I guess I did. I guess I did or I did it? Yeah, he did. How did you do it? But what I did? But what? I'm sure. I guess I did it. I did it. I did it. I did it. I did it. I did it. How would you whack her in the head?

Okay, how'd you whack her in the head? Easily. Okay, how easy it was it? That's how easy it was. Tell me about it. What do you want to know? Start from what started it? I was up at night.

I've been having muscle two inches. I tried to take some of the... Comprehance up down. It was just a calling. It was a grueling inside me. It told my psychics. I just my dad at this. I've just been growing inside in my full full time.

It was telling me. That's how it happened. It's growing inside of me. What's growing inside? It's a killing. A need for killing. This is almost a direct quote from Patrick Bateman. It's growing inside of me, the need for killing.

And that fostered in you last night with pains in your butt. I don't know what it happened. I don't know what it was. The pained in my body, I don't even know what the hell those were. They weren't even painted. They were just body aches. It made me off balance. Guess what happened last night, tell me.

Is that something up playing? Couldn't sleep nothing. It just happened from there. Mom do something to you make you mad? Nope. So you whacked her with the wage where? And how many times? I don't.

Approximately. Yes. I don't remember. She cut me, it was either she would make a noise or remember her. Rains was making noise. Like what kind of noise? It is a noise. A hissing sound?

I'm pretty sure it was the freaking brain. It's kind of, you know, kind of, kind of thing. Okay, gurgling. A gurgling and a hissing sound? Yeah. Okay. As you hit her with the ways. No.

How much did you hit her? Real hard? He used to both hands. Both hands on the end of the dumbbell? Yeah. Okay? And you don't know how many times it's real hard? Yeah, I just whacked her.

Yeah. I didn't have in one shot to send her to him. I wasn't sure if she was going to scream or not. Okay. One wasn't good enough. I guess not because I wasn't sure she was going to scream or not. I couldn't tell if she was alive. until she is a right time.

Making noises? Sadly, Judy's worst fear came true and worse. Ethan doesn't seem to have the least bit of remorse. In fact, it seems that he may have been planning the sickening act all along. Throughout the confessions, he's coming across as arrogant, defiant, and confrontational. But what he's not showing is emotion. Instead, it seems like he's telling this officer that he doesn't care at all. and in fact, he's proud of what he did.

Then I stabbed her. What's what? A knife. What knife? Nice. Charlie, give me something extra to tell you where it is? What else can I give you, man? You want me to stand before?

What, man? What else can I give you? I'm giving your own cell, man. Do that. So I'll have my boss call over there. As soon as we're done here and make an arrangement for you to have your own self. All right. And do I have to, so I'm going to have to go to court.

Is this true? Yeah, you don't have to go to court. That's part of the system. Child, I don't know how you're guilty? Well, you still have to go to court to say whether you're guilty or not. I mean, come on, if you don't. Do I get some? Wait.

How, how, I, wait. No things. I ain't got no shivers. I don't have my deal. or nothing. We can get just personal body hygiene stuff? Yeah, my personal body hygiene. Your personal stuff?

Can you do that? What kind of personal hygiene stuff? Come on, Eve. Akvani and Jean-Paul Gordi. I used to remember that. Ethan was fantasizing about killing someone for quite some time. Authorities would eventually locate his school planner, where they found several drawings of women being horrifically tortured and murdered.

In the right-hand corner of one of the pages was a chilling to-do list. It reads, 1. Kill everyone. 2. Cut them into pieces. 3. Fry organs like the heart and brain and see how it tastes. And 4.

Heart is an okay organ to eat if fried. It seemed that Ethan wanted to do much more than just commit murder. This is almost identical to the American Psycho movie at the end when the secretary is looking through Bateman's. planner. You said you hit your mom twice with the dumbbell. More than twice. I don't know how many times. Then I stab her? Less than 10? More than 10? I don't know. Probably less than 10. I wouldn't have the strength of my body, which is wearing like that. Okay. She's still making noise. I stabbed her in the heart a couple of times. With what? The night. Which night? The Winchester nine.

The more a bigger knife. Special night. Okay. What special night? What special? Where'd you get the special night? My brother, when he moved into his, into that new house, that house was owned by some practice. Those knives were just lying around. He didn't use those. I took that phone, I took that one phone because it was a special butterfly knife with a ring, I think. Not many people have in most of them. I know how to use a knife.

Real well, real well. But I couldn't get in the angle for the three shot kill. What's the three shot kill? What's the three shot kill? What are you talking about? On my hand. You take it to one, a two, and a three, and you're dead. All the same quick motion, one, two, three.

Yeah. But you couldn't get that because of the way she was laying. How was she laying? She's on your side. Okay. And she turned over. over. I stattered in the thought I stabbed her in the heart because I was checking where my own heart was. I thought I sat down there. Still, there was hissing coming from there or

or gurdily. I don't know what the hell it was. So I statered in the lungs and I don't know. Maybe I slid her throat before I stabbed in the lungs. I can't remember. I think I stuttered in the lungs and then slid her throat. A lot of stabbing's there. They are more than just superficial. They're real good deep stabbing. What you're saying? That's right. I've never seen actual skin be torn apart like that.

Paper, but worse. It works. Yeah. You know, clay kind of thing? You just spread apart. It's how it is kind of elastic. It's weird. You kind of river.

Oh, you know, I'm not. I just went right in there. You know, it just got through there. No problem. Pretty sharp butter knife. Oh. Or a fly night. This thing is a monster.

I had the glove over her mouth the full time. What I thought was her mouth? What love? I'm a blind one. Not sure if you split her throat? I thought I did. But I wasn't sure. You know, I tried to make the motion.

It's harder to then it looks. Okay. Do anything else after that? I think I whacked it once more time. What's a dumbbell? Yeah. How does the Winchester knife come into it? Just the root-homes.

Okay. So it's just another knife stuck in there. Okay. Where's the butterfly knife? Very close by. Okay. Very close by. So you know that your best is another best.

them all. Okay. There's a bridge. I try to hook it over a little fence. It didn't even make it over there. Unfortunately, the butterfly knife used in the gruesome murder would never be found. What'd you do through clothes? What clothes?

The clothes you're wearing when you did this. They're strong. It wasn't the same clothes. Yeah. As you get the blood off you? It wasn't on blood. A blood. I got all of my arms.

Lodd gloves. Yeah, I'm, you know, you made sure it didn't get over. I mean, though there was some splatters. I have lucky. Would you do afterwards? After what? After you did after and cleaned up? Put my stump up.

Put the blanket over, the stump over, fed the dog, cats, didn't the water, put him in that room. I can't go in there. Didn't find no money to the person. So just grab his main energy drinks I put, grab some of my medicine. He's got to not booted up.

Come on. Strangely, Ethan also scattered cat and dog food on Judy's bedroom floor before making his way to his father's house. Ethan murdered his mother in the late night hours of Wednesday, January 24th, but he wouldn't arrive at his father's house until early the next day. I feel about what you did. Nothing. You don't feel nothing about it?

Nothing. Feel good about it? I feel good about it. I told you, I thought nothing. I really knew he was getting in this way. I had my guy sent him a letter. I don't know what the letter said. I was supposed to be able to talk next week Friday.

Funny thing is, though, he's a psychiatrist. I'm not good. It's fair, huh? It's a pretty fine, man. Kind of ironic. It's pretty fine, huh? I heard you told him I've been happening, you know, these thoughts, been always there.

Eighth grade, always there. Always there, just growing inside. Just growing, grow, growing, grow, since eighth grade. That's how it's always been. That's just like, I continue to ask you. Continue to ask them, can you give me something for impulses? Really? You couldn't give me some drink?

Too little, too late, you know? Why are you on? What's this person? I was thinking I'm going downtown instead of a couple of bumps too. They're worth those bumps. You know what? You live on the street. Make up all these excuses for why they can't work.

That shit. This is another American Psycho movie reference. I thought of going downtown to stab a couple bums. The interrogation has revealed countless ways that Ethan is trying to be the same as Bateman. In the movie, Bateman kills without provocation and purpose. Ethan said that he wasn't provoked by and did not have a specific purpose for killing his mother. Throughout the movie, Bateman tells people of his homicidal thoughts, and Ethan shared his homicidal thoughts with many people as well.

Bateman tells people in the movie that he is insane, and Ethan told friends and students he was a psychopath. Bateman states that something horrible is happening inside him and that he cannot explain it, and Ethan made eerily similar statements about something growing inside him and having feelings he cannot explain. After killing, Bateman changes the answering machine to reflect the victim being out of town.

After killing, Ethan does the same thing to their answering machine. It's unclear if Ethan even knows which parts of himself are real and which are just trying to copy a fictional character. Mom was the closest. Yeah, she was there. I was just going to leave, but she woke up and heard me to leave because she wakes up quite easily. Man, that would have been left with some plans.

So, besides, I think he'll go kill a couple of bumps anyway. Why don't I have to the list? What that? So she woke up and you were getting ready to leave? No. No. No, she was asleep. She would have woke up, that's what you're saying.

Yeah. Probably. She probably would have woke up and sleeping in my life. I was like, well, you know. Is this all right? You're done watching TV? No, I just tried to go to sleep. In bed time sleep, or in chair time sleep.

In bed. You don't feel bad about what you did at all? You're okay with it? buddy there's things and knives that want to go to the owners and around you know i was meant to before i should have i should have been around i should have been in hospitals i'm right release a long part of it or how screwed up that once it's just called luck that's just how it's just how it is you know all this this god this big thing you're gonna get them Following the unbelievably shocking and callous confession, Ethan is placed under arrest and taken to jail.

Consistent with what we've seen so far, in no way does he even show one ounce of regret for his monstrous actions. After taking a closer look into Ethan's home, a mountain of evidence was uncovered. In Ethan's bedroom were two toy figures, one of a man holding a chainsaw and a shotgun, while the second was none other than a replica of Patrick Bateman. They also discovered a rolled-up dollar bill with white residue next to his computer. In addition, they also found a blue American body armor ballistic vest in the living room. According to one of the reporting officers, he noted that from his training and experience, its common behavior amongst many previous school shooters to have owned a vest of this type,

while also murdering one or both parents. This discovery led authorities to believe that Ethan may have also been planning a school shooting. Not only that, but investigators located the many films and books that Ethan grew to love. Some of the most notable movies being that of American Psycho, Gacy, Ted Bundy, Domer, serial killers, natural born killers, and The Shining. His book collection included many famous titles. Of course, American Psycho, but also Bad Men Do What Good Men Dream, the psychopathic mind, snakes and suits, and forensics' true crime scene investigators. investigations. It's clear that American Psycho made the biggest impact on Ethan and in the end, police shockingly found 25 different ways in which Ethan imitated the character, Patrick Bateman.

In addition to the previously mentioned similarities, Ethan would also share thoughts of committing a homicide. He would regularly control Judy. He idolized material possessions such as high brand cologne and body wash. He apparently bragged about having meaningless intercourse. He expressed how he wanted to murder the homeless and how he believed that his friends are stupid. But most eerily of all, the teenager wanted to fulfill his disgusting desire to murder someone in cold blood,

and he chose his own mother. In December of 2007, Ethan Wyndham was charged as an adult with first-degree murder. He eventually pleaded guilty to second-degree murder and was sentenced to life in prison without the first-degree murder. the possibility of parole. However, in 2012, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that life sentences for juveniles were in violation of the Eighth Amendment, where cruel and unusual punishment is prohibited. As a result, in 2019, Ethan was resentenced to 26 years behind bars. He's already

served 16. He will be eligible for parole in 23.