EXPLORE WITH US - When Evil Parents Realize They've Been Caught: The Case of Seth & Tatiana Welch

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

When EVIL parents realize they've been caught...The following podcast episode is not legal advice. Do not rely on the information in this presentation without speaking to a licensed attorney.No one discussed in these videos has been formally diagnosed by EWU and our psychological analysis is based on the general behaviors and traits of the people discussed.

And even I can look at this photo and I can say, whoa, it put tears in our eyes when we walked in there. It was that obvious. That is a charge called homicide felony murder. It is life without parole. Amen. Yeah. What you just heard and are about to hear is some of the most extreme, bizarre and baffling thinking ever caught on camera. A child's life taken in the most sickening way, and for one reason so unthinkable, you'll have a

hard time believing it was actually said out loud. I called my lawyer heard thing to ask, you know, what's the next thing I could do? And they said, wait until they're here to call, you know, the police and get that going. Basically, got the point where I was waiting someone. I just kind of went ahead and did it anyway. After placing the call to emergency services, Seth and his wife, Tatyana Fasari, were escorted to the police station in King County, Michigan to answer some questions about what happen to their child. It's important to know that both were there voluntarily and not under arrest

at the time of these interviews that have never been seen before. The interrogation room is stark with bare walls, only outfitted with uncomfortable chairs and a table. There are no distractions. All of this is intended to make the person in the room uncomfortable and uneasy. That way, they're dependent on the interrogator to provide them comfort with things such as food and water, or even other favors such as cigarettes or compliments. This gives the interrogator leverage. Seth appears to be nervous as he sits and fidgets. Most people are nervous in an interrogation room,

so none of this is really surprising. However, given the situation, his behavior is a bit odd. It is notable that Seth barely looks up to make eye contact with the detective. This is unusual as most people would at least glance up, when someone enters a room or hands them something. This short interaction could be a sign of contempt towards the detective,

or even an anti-social personality. The detectives decide to speak first with Tatyana about Mary's death, leaving Seth to wait in his own interrogation room. Really, what I kind of just like to do is just to get a better understanding of how we are here today and kind of go back a few years even, just to get to know you and your family, little bit. So, do you go by Tantiana or do you have a nickname? Tantiana. Okay. How many children do you have? Three. Three. Okay. Yep.

All right. Four. The officer shifts to talk about the other two children. This is a tough interview to do. They need to dance the line between talking about the kids and what happened and also keep her from breaking down completely to the point where any conversation is impossible. Does she have a primary doctor? Not anymore. We only go with the staresing issue and there just hasn't been. Although Tatiana states that she and Seth would in fact take their children to the doctor if they're sick, as you'll see, there will be a discrepancy when Seth speaks to detectives.

This is exactly why the couple is being interviewed separately so that the detectives can expose areas where they may be lying or covering for the other person. She also discusses how her older daughter was recommended by a doctor to wear a head-shaping helmet. This is a rather common occurrence and is sometimes done if a baby's skull is an abnormal shape. However, Tatiana also begins to expose her skepticism with the medical profession. I found out that it's commission-based for these products that they try and push. But we think that we're trying to push the helmet. It was a $3,000 helmet. It looks quite invasive and I just, I'm heavy. And it's just more. or like neck problems or that problem?

She didn't need it. Right, right. And called GPS. As Tatiana just stated, CPS, Child Protective Services, was called on the couple when they refused to get the head-shaping helmet for their eldest daughter.

Soon after, the child was diagnosed with failure to thrive. This diagnosis is often when a baby isn't gaining weight as they should. It can be from an illness, poor eating habits, or even neglect by the parents. Given that one of their other children has died,

this is extremely relevant. Tatiana further shows her mistrust with medical practices as she shares a story with detectives about how after the birth of one of her children they were kept at the hospital for three days, something which Tatiana makes clear she thought was unnecessary and a way to force the couple to pay more in medical bills. To avoid this with Mary, she had a home birth.

And having a home birth right after I gave birth, Seth went out and bought me a pizza on it. to help people. Right on my couch. And for, is she in any kind of daycare? Does she go out? Does she have preschool? No, I'm homeschool.

I have my degree in early childhood. Oh, you know. Okay. Okay. Okay. This shows that she or Seth were home with the children all day, and this fact will become integral later on. He's glaring directly into the camera.

Remember, Seth is here because his child has just passed away. You might expect him to look sad and grief-stricken, and yet Seth displays neither of these emotions and appears almost frustrated to be there. There's no doubt about it. He's upset that he's been left waiting. Set appears to be both annoyed and bored. People with antisocial personality disorder, ASPD, are grandiose and entitled, so they don't believe that anyone has a right to question them, or worse, keep them waiting. One of the reasons Seth may seem so frustrated with being left alone so long is because he could be wondering what Tatyana is telling detectives about Mary's death. Continuing to gather background information, the detectives asked Tatyana about how she and Seth fed Mary,

information that will soon be very important. Do you bottle feed, breastfeed, pump, while you're at work, did you leave work to breastfeed, or did you leave pumped bottles at home for a shop to be heard? I love pumped bottles at home. Okay. It depends on my shift, but usually if I pump fresh every day, and I will leave one out on the counter,

lead you from the fridge, and then there will be some in the freezer. Finally, after being in the interrogation room alone for two hours, the detectives enter. This is a rather long time and may have been unintentional. However, they may have strategically decided to speak with Seth's wife first, and intentionally made him wait. In comparison, Tatiana seems like the easier person to get information from, and her statements could potentially be useful in getting Seth to talk.

The more the police have on a suspect going in, the more advantageous. Immediately, Seth leans back in his chair with his fingers interlocked over his stomach, which is a protective and defensive posture. Once again, he barely acknowledges the detectives, indicating that he'll probably not be cooperative and could be defiant. I'm sorry you're going to this. I told you that wrong here, but how long have you been tough? Is it Tangiana, right?

I can keep that. Yeah, Tiana. Tautiana. How many years I'm married? I don't know how long you've been married for like three years. That is March, 2015, I think. Right off the bat, Seth is evasive and uses a qualifier, I think, on a very basic question. He would have no reason to lie, and so this might indicate that he's not making an attempt to be helpful.

Almost as soon as the detective asks Seth for some background information about his children, just as they did with Tatiana, he shares his beliefs about the medical field. I am very anti-medical industry as because of what happened with her. She coughed one time, and so they said that they had to keep her under hospital. observation for 72 hours to make sure she didn't have a breathing ground. But those was about $15,000. So, you know, they even got to the point where they, the first time we changed doctors, they called CPS on us just for changing doctors because the doctor we were saying was

all the way in Byron's Center from Cedar Springs. This is the first inconsistency between Tautiana and Seth. She stated CPS was called because they refused the head-shaping helmet, while he says it was because they changed doctors. I'm done with medical stuff. We're homebirth and it's... It's a way to go anyways, isn't it? Yeah.

After establishing that both Tatyana and Seth have a mistrust of the medical field, the detective asks him about feeding Mary, and his answer is the second discrepancy between him and his wife. Did she leave you bottles of brushed milk to nurse her, or did you not nurse? Notice Seth's behavior as the detective asks this question. His hand goes from open on the table to using an adapter behavior to closed on his lap. Adaptor behaviors often indicate that an individual is trying to alleviate stress. In addition, when someone's hands are open, this typically indicates that the person is feeling relaxed.

However, as stress increases, one's fingers may curl up as sets are doing now. No, we just hang out on. That's why I would give her solid food. Okay. While you're at work, did you leave work to breastfeed? you leave pumped bottles at home for chef to feed her. Oh, right. Pumped bottles at home. Okay.

Feeding the children has never been a real part of your response. A little bit. I think, like, I've been feeding. Like her dinner, you know, I feed her tons of solid food. I feed her three or four of those, you know, those Gerber cups. Oh, yeah. She just waved them right down, no problem. When did you raise her on shallow fruits?

It's just done a couple hunch now. and maybe since since April because that's when Tociano started working at her job Despite seeming relaxed and at ease Seth is shaking his legs and tapping his fingers

which is a sign that he's anxious and stressed People are often unaware when they do this It's another stress adapter to release nervous energy His baseline throughout the first two hours When he was alone in the room

Show that he bounces or shakes his legs his legs. But his adapter behaviors are happening at a higher rate now that the questioning is started, which is a sign of his increased stress. Yeah. And then she moved up to now she's working basically full time. Seth tells the detectives that for the first four months of Mary's life, Tatiana breastfed her. Then when she was six months old, Tatiana began working more and Seth became responsible for most of the feeding. Still, he says that Tatiana can continued to breastfeed Mary in the morning and the middle of the night. And then when Tatyana was away, he fed the baby four cups of solid food. This seems like an excessive amount of food for a

10-month-old. Making her eating habits sound extreme in the other direction is even more suspicious and could mean that he's lying. The question is, if he is lying, why lie about something like this? The detective has done a good job of getting him calm down a bit. He's mirroring the body language of the detective, hands in front, leaning forward towards each other, which is a much more open stance than when they started speaking. How do your kids develop? Every child's different, I know that, but... They all were very engaging and active, and yes, RoliPoli is a great interest of all of the next place.

Okay. The only thing they were laid on was walking. Or she always thinner? She always defeated. Always to choose. Yeah, she was never, nothing chunky about her. So at six months, did your hours change? Is that why these habits changed, or did they change because of a combination of both?

It couldn't have a combination of both. I know because she was growing and she was eating more, and you're encouraging salad food so she can gain more weight. Tatiana glances in the direction of the camera when she says Mary was growing. It's clear she knows. knows she's being recorded, and this quick movement could be an indication of dishonesty. People don't like to be recorded when lying. And how do you feel about weight size? Was she okay, or she...

I was a tad concern, but then I remembered... I'm a mom-should just worry about anything. Sure. Then I remembered Elizabeth and how the teach she was then and how she was filling life life, but not with life until she was about a year. She may be including this to explain why the victim was under weight, pointing to the older daughter's growth pattern as their norm. So what was your tab concern? What was that?

Was she just not gaining enough weight, or was that the concern? I think what got to me was seeing, like, other babies just so chunky and always feeling like, oh, she's so small. And I was like, yes, she's premature, she's petite. You alone. Yeah, yeah. Also, I forget like all these babies are formula fit, and there's nothing against formula. Sometimes you need to do it,

but the formula is what chunks of the base. Sure, sure. There is a conflict here, as in the pictures from their house. There are empty formula bottles. So at six months, other than a little bit underweight, you considered her to be appropriate size. Yes, and developmentally as well.

I mean, she was doing real well developmentally. Yeah, she was already putting her hands on the floor and just looking around. And you're educated in this area. So if there's anyone that should know, it would be you. I mean, probably better than us to. I'd like to think so paid for all that education and should help, right? So because you're educated in early childhood development, is that you said?

Her education will not vote well for her if she continues to claim ignorance to her child's condition. At what point did you guys become concerned about her weight? Let's say, did I. She never was sickly in any way, slow, lethargic. Though delivered casually, this is actually an integral question, as it implies that they were concerned about Mary's weight. This is a leading question and in some sense a question that has no good answer. Seth, whether he recognized it or not, did a good job evading it.

With the way Seth is talking, Mary's death is entirely impossible, and he's downplaying the situation to a degree that is not believable. No, no health indicators that said anything was on other than that she was skinny, which I just, she started putting on weight recently. We really started really, you know, pounded the solid food down in the last, like, month or so. But I kind of was like, because my mom's always been honest about it. Always. She's always on a get some food, Ms. Kevin.

Yeah, she always said, yeah, wait, you guys see now. Come on, go on. The garbage, I mean, there's, like, I can't feed the kid, and I'm, the last time my mom said something about it, she said is she was late. Oh, okay. So you thought you were in the right direction, and she thought that she was gaining away. She remarked that her cheeks seemed a lot fuller. Seth is trying to provide references to back up his story, similar to the Check My Garbage Comment. This is an attempt to appear honest and make his claims believable.

The claim that they put her on a high-protein diet, contradicts the statement that they had no concerns about her weight or health, as does the admitted concerns his mother expressed about her weight. Seth is minimizing all of the clear indicators that there was a problem. So Tachiana, I was correcting this is wrong. Tachiana said that, especially about the last month, you guys became concerned that you started very consistently and regularly, hardly heightened over.

Lord helped her gain weight. Does that sound right? I get it. You know, I don't, she may have. I haven't really been so much. But I'm glad to hear she lives. Yeah, yeah. Seth takes a little pause here before answering

and is fidgeting with his fingers, showing an adaptive response to the stress he's likely feeling. He's attempting to blow it all off and insinuate that the baby didn't even need to be prayed for. He appears to believe that he is smart enough that he can just make the officers believe what he wants. I think maybe three times in the last week where she slept so long.

I had to, like, now I was talking on, make some jokes now that I was... Yeah, I love you. You know, but you don't really think too much of it at the time. Mm-hmm. So... Sorry. Oh, I don't know.

I don't know. That's all right. Seth is getting tripped up on his words and appears to be having an emotional reaction to this part of the conversation. He may feel somewhat guilty about jokes he made, or he may just be concerned he will say something incriminating. So, yeah, there's been a couple, there's been a couple mornings where she was she had been sleeping for 15, 60 hours straight. She got up at 9 o'clock. We were so tired, weren't you? And she went to bed and went before that?

7 o'clock. Okay. Then she would eat like crazy. And then she would doze off again. Like she was ready for bed immediately after eating. Did she have a routine the last three days? No, it was very, it was a bit erratic. I would try and keep her off just because I was worried that she was sleeping so much.

But when she wanted to sleep, she wanted to sleep. Given Tatiana's education in early childhood and the fact that she has other kids, it is quite surprising that she wasn't more concerned about. about Mary's excessive tiredness. A 10-month-old sleeping for 15 hours straight and then wanting to go back to sleep right after eating in the morning is a red flag

and should have prompted Tatyana and Seth to seek out a medical evaluation. If she's in there and everything, hard as well, everything is fine when she's closing down, I'm not inclined to wake the kid up. Seth refers to Mary as the kid, creating distance from her. This is also an indication of a lack of a

emotional connection with her, which is another indication of ASPD. Was she eating? Yes, very well. I mean, the Sunday before last we went to Golden Corral, and she just feasted. These terms used by Tatiana, such as eat like crazy, eating very well, and beasted, could be examples of qualifiers where Tatiana is trying to emphasize a point, but she's going overboard using extra descriptive language. When a person does this, they may be trying to trying to make themselves sound honest or truthful.

She's so tiny. Was there never a time that you're just like, well, there's something really wrong? There was never a time where I thought there was something really wrong. As the detective's questions start getting more specific in terms of Seth noticing that Mary was severely underweight, Seth taps his cup on the table. He's using it as a barrier between himself and the officers, as well as something to distract from the conversation. This is a new behavior and definitely an indicator of anxiety. He likely knows that this question could incriminate him

and may realize that he can't just manipulate his way through the interrogation at this point. And when was the last time that you thought she was 20 pounds? Finally, after establishing the details of Mary's eating habits, the detectives get to the crux of the issue and the reason they are here, Mary's death. Tell me what today. Yeah, you know, I just kind of like woke up like a regular day.

I wasn't feeling very well last night. So I kind of, I slapped in because I didn't sleep very well. I think I rolled out of bed like 8 to 8.30 took care of some chores. And then I lay back down. And then my wife told me she was going to go right up the street to neighbor's house to go get some kids. And when she came back, I woke up, you know,

tell me that's that. It's strange that he seems to show no emotion except irritation, frustration, and maybe a bit of anger. But other than that, it's like he could be talking about losing a book in the same manner as he's talking about the death of his child. So what did you do when she told you that?

I had split out of bed and raced to the room. They're helpless, right? What am I going to do? What am I going to do? I could tell she was dead. I'm looking at it. He is very cavalier about looking at his daughter dead and even shrugs. Losing a child is something most parents consider to be their worst nightmare

and the worst pain a parent can experience. His demeanor is disturbing and extremely abnormal, especially given the fact that Mary's death was likely preventable. But Tatiana couldn't. She's a mom. Right. She's good.

So, I'm used to deal with a lot of dead bodies with this farm. Yeah. So, I know what they look like. That was that? Saying Tatiana didn't know the baby was dead because she is a mom, implies that his role as a father makes him less emotional or attached to the children. He shows zero emotion, and his tone is one of almost indifference. It's important to remember that this happened just hours before this interrogation,

and his emotion should still be very fresh. While some parents may not show emotion because of shock, he does not appear to be in shock. So yesterday morning, when you got her up at 7, she had to step up? No, this morning. Oh, this morning. At 9, when I got her up, when I tried to get her up. Yeah.

I thought maybe she choked on her spit. And that's my sleep. What color was her spit up? It was foamy and brown. It's odd that Seth never mentioned anything about Tatiana thinking Mary had choked on her spit-up. Parts of their stories aren't aligning, which could mean one or both are intentionally leaving information out. So where was the spit-up at? Out of her face.

I was that she was unresponsive. It was this morning when you saw that. And what happened? Anything else looked strange other than obviously to spit up and her eyes were open? Just get Seth. It's an emergency, and I was just so shockeding. He reminded me I knew CPR. Tatiana may have added that Seth told her to start CPR to try and protect him

and make him appear less detached. One of the things to note is that this may be an indication of abuse, as victims of domestic abuse often protect their abusers. He told me to start, so I took her from the bed, and I put around her changing table, and I started CPR, and I just... I always thought. So I did the two things. her touch on the chest and her back and I um

wiped her mouth and I was pumping her chest there was like bubbles coming out of her mouth. So that's what I thought maybe that that's why I thought she choked and then maybe if I kept pumping like it would like maybe it would come out and then she'd like cough and wake up. Like in the bubbles and I was giving her air and giving her pumping with my fingers. She's my two fingers.

Mm-hmm. Maybe I should have done the work. Nope, you're done right. She was still so cold. Tatiana has now turned fully away from the detectives facing sideways. Her response is actually a lot less suspect than Seth's. It's not to just need her all time. Is she gone? While he's crying, it's hard to say yes. I have no idea what to do that at all. Like, who do we, what do we, too?

So what did you do next? Call my dad. So I just called him and, you know, said, hey, say, should I call police or what? I don't know how this works. Your mom and I are on our way. call the police, let them know what happened, and we'll try and get there before they do. It had been about an hour since hanged, and I was starting to get impatient because I did not want to.

I know how it looks when people wait to make a police call, so I just, you know, I just... They may not have called 911 because Seth knew that if they called the police, it would be evident that they had neglected this child and would be arrested. He likely put his concerns for himself,

over his own child and called his dad to ask him what to do in reference to himself and his possible legal situation. So what did you guys do during the two hours? They sit there and cry. And then we just spent the entire time on the couch. We, and clean anything else? Yeah, we cleaned up the house, but boy, was a, this is a match. I knew we were going to have my parents over. cleaning during such a horrific moment is definitely odd it's possible that Seth and Tatiana cleaned the house because they knew police would be arriving if the home was in a very unclean state

this could be caused for suspicion about the possibility of Mary and the other children being neglected it's important to know that the crime scene photos show that despite claiming to have cleaned the house was still quite dirty So while all of the house cleaning in hell? Wiping out the counter and sleeping the floor. Okay.

I don't know why. Who cares about it? An indication that Seth may be the dominant, possibly abusive one in their relationship is that the longer Tatiana is away from him, the more rational her thoughts appear to be, such as the outlandishness of cleaning in that moment. Yeah, because obviously you're in a thousand-am. So, you know, obviously for us,

and you would just like yourself, it looks weird. Before confronting Seth, the detective calls him intelligent to appeal to his ego, but also so he doesn't try to play dumb. Detectives will often say this to suspects they perceive as narcissists. I wanted to just, like, call you guys first, but not, I was following my legal advice. I'm sorry, if there's a problem at all, I just, just do what the lawyers will me to do. Nope, here's the thing, I'm not saying, I'm just confirming what you says, what's weird. Katya, we're all parents in this room, okay?

And we all need to be honest. Remember in the car when I first talked with you? And I told you that at the end of the day, we all need to know exactly. So we need to tell her story, okay? The detective is letting her know he's not buying her story. He's hoping this will make her lose resolve and begin to tell the truth. I want you to think about this for a minute. I want you to think for a second and put yourself in our shoes

and then you have to go into that house and you have to look at that precious little angel. Okay. Do you think she was healthy, honestly? When you look at her sides and you can see every single mom in her body, do you think she was healthy? Tatiana hangs her head, possibly an indication of shame.

This body position also allows her to take a break from the intense eye contact from the detectives. We know this isn't easy, Tatiana, but we need to know what happened to her. What was going on? So when did she start losing all that weight? She's lost so much weight that you can't lose that much in two days. Tatiana may be getting closer to telling them the truth. The detectives will likely apply more pressure to keep her feeling insecure.

I'd never seen a child that skinny. you're obviously a very concerned mom but at what point at what point did you know what point did you think something was wrong because I know that you knew something or your thoughts something wrong you are an intelligent educated woman

the detective is leaning in towards her speaking much more sternly and directly in response Tatiana appears closer to breaking down she can't even weigh eight pounds right now She does weigh eight pounds. When's the last time that you actually inspected her, that you looked at her? Tell me the truth. Every time when I change her, and I think I just may have been just so blinded.

What were you blinded by? Because I know, listen, you are an intelligent, articulate, college-educated, early childhood development. You know, you know when you look at someone that something's wrong. I have a picture of her right here. I'm prepared to show you that tells you no medical treatment as dumb as I am. I'm not as intelligent as you. I can't speak the words you can speak. I am not you.

And even I can look at this photo and I can say, whoa, something's wrong. It put tears in our eyes when we walked in there. It was that obvious. Tatiana, I'm going to be quite honest with you right now, okay? one parent to another, right? And I'm going to try and control my emotions, all right? I've been to a child death investigator school, and I've seen photos and images of children that have been malnourished.

And I'm telling you right now, this is the worst thing I've ever seen. Oh, no, really? Yes. Covering her face is a clear indication of shame and embarrassment. In contrast to Seth, Tatyana displays what appears to be real emotions and seems to feel some sort of responsibility or remorse. However, it's important to keep in mind that just because a suspect shows big emotions, it doesn't necessarily mean they feel bad about what they did. Those tears could be for themselves.

Right now, she may be feeling panicked and worried about how much trouble she is facing, given what the detective just told her. She's still far from appearing like a parent who has nothing to hide. You clearly need help, too, though. You're going to say, you know what if this is bag, it just is something that, but all I want to know is what stops you from seeking help? Tatyana is clearly having an emotional reaction during this point in the interrogation,

but as you'll see, Seth's reaction is much more chilling. She only eight, oh, hey, I'm sure six pounds. She's tiny. Was that never an alarm for you? She's not where she needs to be. This is, I mean, I can see. all of her bones.

Well, what I just told you is what I just told you in regards to that matter. So, yes, there was, which is what I told you. I also generally, I don't trust the medical system so much as other people. I know how they work and I know they're in business and that healthy people don't make them any money. The detective's body language indicates that he was expecting this excuse. So that could have skewed your... Yeah, it's the way.

It does. It changes the way that we do things a lot differently than most other people. His answers are all about what he thinks. As earlier, he appears to believe that no one is smarter than he is. But looking at your daughter, looking back, you as a parent, as a father, didn't you have any concern for her looking at her? Yes, I did. I was kind of more in that I have never encountered a health problem.

basically if you don't do the right things and be patient, that it works itself out, especially with the kids. I was not happy about how thin she was, but I also, I also, you know, have the belief that, you know, God didn't make us all, you know. The same. Yeah, exactly. A parent being defensive in this situation is a huge red flag, as most parents blame themselves when their child is harmed, even in situations where they couldn't be at fault. let alone ones they could be to blame for. And I'm telling you right now,

I've been doing this job for a long time, okay? And he'll tell you when I walked in that bedroom today, all right, I started crying. And I looked at her for a millisecond, and I knew that she wasn't right. And I knew that she wasn't right for some time, okay? And you're her father. Yes.

And I thought her when she was dead too, She was much more gone when she was dead than she ever was when she was alive. I mean, I got pictures on my phone. Seth is in serious denial, or he's justifying his behavior and refusing to take any responsibility for his actions, which are common behaviors for someone with a personality disorder. It's likely not possible that the baby's physical appearance will change so drastically, just hours after her death, when law enforcement arrived. How did you not, when you looked at her a day and a half ago, changing her diaper and realize that my daughter is skin and bones, when I looked at her belly in the house, okay?

Quick warning, the detective is about to give a graphic description of Mary's body. And I'm not exaggerating this. I know. I could see the outline of her intestines through her stomach. I could see her spine completely through her back. I could see every one of her ribs through her chest. Though Seth is suddenly very still, he appears completely unfazed. This may be the freeze response, which is an instinctual response that can occur when someone encounters a serious threat.

By not moving, the individual may be trying to not attract attention to themselves. Yeah, like I said, I mean, like I said, I'm not happy about it either. You know, you're welcome to go through my garbage and look at the baby food containers. The point isn't whether or not Mary was fed. It's the fact that she was not taken to a physician. You knew something was wrong. What stopped you? Tell us the truth.

I mean, are you that financially strapped? I mean, what is it? Do you not believe in health care? Do you, I mean, do you have religious beliefs? I mean, what is it? Both detectives are hunched forward, making themselves smaller and less intimidating. When did you start praying about them? Consistently and heavily, three, three, four days.

So three, four days ago, you started praying, what were your prayers? Not freaking late. Just eating lines and it's sticking. You guys knew enough was wrong to start heavily and consistently. prying. Why didn't you seek help? No, no. Anything to Seth. I... Shep had to know. He was not ever holder? Yes. I didn't think we needed to bring it to a doctor. There's a dynamic here that we're trying to figure out. There is a dynamic here. I'm going to say, I know it. I can... I know there's a dynamic, and I feel that you wanted to get her help.

I'm trying to just figure out why you didn't. I think I was worried about another GPS call from the doctors, And I thought that Mary would get better and it would be okay. No, I want to know out of you too, which one of you wanted to go take her to the doctor? I know he didn't. And I didn't for a long time. And until recently it just became a little thought in my head that maybe we should. And then I was worried about PPS and about just losing faith. At this point, it's become clear that Seth and Tautjana are hiding behind their beliefs.

But there are other factors present that cause them to make the decision to not seek medical attention for their daughter, such as Seth's dislike for authority. She didn't get this malnourished and skin overnight, okay? This is a lengthy process, okay? And this has been going on for some time. If you could go back and reset the clock to try to prevent today, how far back you think you would go? Seth hesitates again and struggles to respond, which is highly unusual and suspicious because any grieving parent would have an immediate answer to such a question. His hesitation could be because he knows that no matter what he says, it's going to incriminate him. Seth is essentially trapped with this question.

I don't know because I can't tell you. Seth clearly doesn't want to give a specific date because he knows very well. that any answer he gives here will make it clear that Mary was severely neglected and that her condition was a progressive process. It's also interesting that he doesn't mention that his wife was concerned, showing that he likely didn't take her into consideration. Did she not think that? I don't have a reason why I can think that I was being such a hopeful mom. I suppose I don't have a good reason for you. Sorry. What was your conversations like with Seth?

You said a minute ago that you knew that he didn't want to go to a doctor. Yeah, because we discussed it before. Did she just discussed her conditions? Yes. The detectives clearly think Seth was the one that was making the decisions and are trying to press her to see if she will admit to him preventing her from getting help. When was the first time you guys discussed that? Maybe a month ago.

And, you know, we talked about it and just that faith and just we'll keep feeding her like, do and keep nursing her and super active and she'll get there it's okay she'll get there how many conversations did you handle stuff about this not very money he's not an angry type person no how is he as far as emotional goes he uh he's not afraid to cry i'm just gonna he'd you cry a lot would you say that he wears his emotions on his sleeve i suppose i mean i went When we were going through our marriage, he was very expressive about how, about his feelings and how he would like to be treated and how I wasn't treating him now. And he was very intuitive and he was expressive. The way Tatiana describes Seth is not at all what he presents like during the interrogation.

If Tatiana is being abused and controlled by him, she could be afraid to admit what he is really like. At what point today did you and or Tachiana think it doesn't look good that we didn't get her with medical treatment or whatever. At what point today did you think of? I don't know. I guess I haven't really worried about it too much. Okay. Seth states this in such an unemotional and heartless manner that it's clear he has no remorse whatsoever and is possibly a sociopath. as well, this is also a direct contradiction to what he said at the beginning of the interrogation.

Earlier, he explained that he called his dad for legal advice before calling police, which clearly indicated that he was worried about how it looked. When suspects give statements that are inconsistent, it can be a red flag for possible deception. Liars may have difficulty keeping track of what they've said, which can result in them saying something that contradicts an earlier statement. The thing is that it's like, yeah, she was skinny, but that would be like the only thing. She was thin. No, no.

Was it thin? Yes, I know. I picked her up. I know how skinny she was. It used to hurt. I used to, I, I, uh, what are we going to do? Like, inject her with liposuction? And where the doctor's going to do?

There's more, you know, you know what that we can cause of the death in this country is, don't you? Yeah, it's medical malpractice. There is. I'll give you that. It's more dangerous. It's one change is to take your kid to the doctors. It's not only most people saying. Most people think of the cops.

I get it. I get what you're saying. Seth's delusional thinking is becoming increasingly evident. This could be because his level of stress is increasing. Seth is so out of touch with reality and so grandiose that he still doesn't acknowledge that doctors could have acted to save Mary. Did you ever look at how tiny and sunken and skeletful She would love and say, we're in trouble.

I think actually it's been across my mind today. Why did it come across your mind? What were you thinking? Is that why it took so long to call 911? I've never worked a case. It's taken that long to call 911. This is an indication that much of what Tatiana has said throughout the interrogation is her desperate attempt

to appear like this was all an accident. You never once expressed to Seth that, hey, this doesn't. This was a good look at her. No, I didn't. Did he ever, did he ever even make a comment about her body? You guys looked at her and he never said anything about it? You know how he described her on the phone?

You can listen to the 911. He described her as, nope, she's dad as a doork as a doorkmanel. Seth saying this shows that he not only doesn't feel normal emotions, but he may not even be capable of understanding how to act like a person, with a conscience. It's also a sign of how detached he may have been as a parent. Individuals with antisocial personality disorder often are unable to form genuine attachments to other people. It's becoming clear that Seth is a sociopath and possibly intentionally starved his child for some benefit for himself or because she was somehow a burden to him. Tatiana's defense of him

could be a sign of battered women's syndrome, or a sign that she was so emotionally abused and controlled that she doesn't know anything else but to defend him. However, despite what her relationship with Seth may have been like, she still had a responsibility to take care of her child, and she failed to do so. He kept like that. He's very, very upset. And I cried, and yeah, he cries, but he tries to be strong for everyone. me ask you an honest answer. Do you feel responsible in any way for what happened today? I know that's a bit of a track question, but... No, I...

Are you just honest? Or do you think it's just God's will? Well, just because it might be God's will doesn't mean that there's not some... That it's not his will according to our actions, or it doesn't mean that we're not responsible in some way for what has come about. and so do I take responsibility on myself for anything that goes wrong in my life at all, even if it's totally not my fault.

It's still, what could I have done? You know, for me, do I take some response to that way? All right, I'll never forget. Referring to this as a trap question further confirms Seth's inability to care about anything but his own preservation. Seth seems to express some semi-remorseful sentiments here, but he's also giving himself a way out,

His play with words is his absurd and grandiose way of trying to sound noble, as if he's willing to accept blame or fault no matter what. The truth is really the opposite because Seth has not genuinely taken responsibility for his daughter's death thus far. There's also a hole in the door that I put there because I'm not very savvy with tools and I hit the door with the hammer. So there's a big hammer hole there. So I use it as the people.

You're right there. Tatiana alleges she made the hole in the, the door to the baby's room so she can check on her. This is extremely unusual. Most people just go in the room or use a baby monitor. As you'll see, Seth tells detectives a conflicting story about the hole in the door. How did that hole get in the door again? About five years ago, when I filed myself a Patriot and a gun nut and all that good stuff, all that cool right-wing stuff. I was working on my AK and the gas tube. I was a total idiot, and like the gas tube was stuck,

and I was trying to bang it in there, and I went, and the hammers fell out the back on my hand right into the door. Hey, the AK you're all right? Get a hammer. The contradictory stories here about something that's not particularly important in comparison to the death of a child is actually quite troubling. Obviously, one or both of them is being dishonest, but it's not clear why.

The question is, is the hole in the door a sign of abuse? Had Seth made it in a moment of anger? There are also holes in the walls around the house that are either at a convenient punching height or a height that would match with someone being pushed into the wall. Well, why is Tatiana saying she put the hole in the door? That's what I'm confused about. Because she went through a lot when she was a kid.

Her memory can sometimes be a little about details and stuff like that. I don't know why she would... I don't want you, Seth. Seth claims his wife's memory is off because of childhood trauma and that she's not good with details. He may be alleging this about her so that he already has an explanation in place

if their stories don't line up. He's made her the unreliable one. Tatiana could also be taking responsibility because what Seth explained was pretty dangerous and could have put the kids at risk, so she's trying to protect him and their family by saying it was her being clumsy. The hole in the door wasn't the only sign

that something was wrong in the home. The mattress in Mary's crib was found torn and completely soaked through with urine, so much so that it pooled in a tub under the crib. You'll recall that both Tatyana and Seth said that they would leave Mary in the crib for long periods of time, where she would be lying on the urine-soaked bed.

For one second, I don't want you to think that anybody is trying to say that you didn't love your child. Okay. But I am going to be blatantly honest with you. You didn't provide the necessary care for your daughter. You didn't. Was it embarrassment?

Was it fear? Was it... I think it was fear of PPS. I think that I just thought that I was overreacting. And it was just all in my head because I... I tend to... To overthink things when it's not... necessary and I just thought there was another one of those. And our other two children are just so

healthy and, or am I delusional about that too? Her comments here, I thought I was overreacting and it was all in my head. I tend to overthink and, or am I delusional about that too, are all giant red flags. These are the words of someone who's been gaslit for a long time. She doesn't trust her own instincts or thoughts anymore. These phrases are likely something she's been accused of before, maybe by Seth. I don't know. As far as they appear, I mean, they... But here's the difference, though.

You just said it right there. You just said it as far as they appear. But we know it hasn't appeared healthy. So it's not a delusion. All right, give me five minutes, and we're going to get you and Tatiana right. At this moment, Seth might be thinking that the whole ordeal was over, since the officer told him that he and Tatiana would be going home. However, this couldn't be further from the truth.

In reality, the case against them was just beginning, and Seth would soon share his most shocking and bizarre thoughts yet. Seth lets out a big sigh after the detective leaves the room and begins nervously pacing around. Pacing could be an indication of the real level of anything. anxiety he's actually feeling, rather than the cool-headed persona he's been trying to portray. The detective allows Seth to come in and sit with Tatiana while they wait to be transported home. It's highly unusual to have potential co-defendants wait together in a recorded interrogation room. It's likely the detectives want to observe them together.

How are you doing? I'm happy that I'm with you now. Seth reaches for her hand. This can be seen as either someone reaching out for emotional support, but given his demeanor and suspicions about the relationship dynamic, it's more likely this is him engaging in manipulative actions that seem caring, but are intended to keep Tatiana connected to him. They are also likely aware that they are still being recorded or observed.

The affection may just be them putting on a show for detectives. I just get breathing with that and when you know I need. to call the police after. Oh. I told you like six times. I was waiting for the lawyer to be there because they knew this would happen. Their job is to fill cells.

It's their job. So they can fill two cells right now. And that's... They were angry. Like, it sounded like they were trying I don't know if it would be moving might, but like separate us. So they were done.

That's why they came at you first. because they're they know they can tell by what they look at me yeah they're gonna do shit to me so how I can do a breakdown

in the queue you know what that me is who they're looking for Seth is acting almost like a victim and is unable to acknowledge his fault in what happened this is typical of people with ASPD they manage to twist the story

to make themselves sound like the one's suffering I can know what's I have You go home and then we get really begged and I really like to not talk about it at all anymore today. Seth's suggestion to go home and not discuss this sounds like he wants to forget his child just died hours ago and move on. He says it like he wants to de-stress after a long day. This comment matches right up with his overall attitude of indifference throughout his interrogation. He notably doesn't consider Tatiana's feelings in that she may want or need to talk about this tragedy.

Watch the height differential maintained between them. Tatiana drops her head so that she's looking up at him as he sits straight up. Think about this like wolves in a pack dropping their heads in deference to the alpha. It's a visual representation of a power differential. Well, that is up. I was counting down. I'll wait until 7.30, but we're not under us. I'm being charged.

I'm here under my own compulsion. I'm free to go. They clearly are in denial about the gravity of the charges they're facing and seem to think they'll not be jailed for their crimes and will continue raising their other children. Tatiana seems unfazed by Seth's delusional comments and is likely used to this type of rhetoric from him. Seth's attitude and remarks are a good example of how abusers keep victims of narcissistic abuse in their place of submission, believing they need their spouse. I don't know, I was telling you know, a kid wasn't a joke full of growth hormone and stare at the thing.

I'm sorry, you know, I'm happy about it. He makes the confident mini-steeble with his hands while minimizing the importance of the death of his child. You got to understand what cops, they're not really like, they're just trying to get somebody to confess to a crime. That's all they're trying to. You just don't take it personally.

You just, yep, whatever. I don't care of you. What confess is I like to think? The longer says, Seth is in there with her, the more Tatyana's demeanor changes. She's much less sympathetic than she was when she was speaking to the officers. It's not unusual for suspects to be different around law enforcement, but she came across as much more naive than she really is.

She looks like, I'm not trying to get it. I'm just saying that. It didn't look real. She was dead overnight, and then she was sitting there all day, Dad, and then they're going to take that? Of course. Their topics of conversation in this interrogation room don't sound like those of grieving parents. It seems they're more focused on talking about the interrogation questions and how horribly they were treated than what happened to their daughter today.

People cope with grief in different ways, but their casual discussion still seems unusual. Typical grieving parents would likely be overcome with sadness about their daughter's death. With this in mind, victims of domestic abuse are typically very in tune with their abuser's emotions for survival reasons, so Tatyana may be trying to keep. keep him from getting upset. Just trying to think about it and her in this just for the rest of the day. Okay. Just for tonight.

Please just try to wipe it away. It's some torture all day. Well, the torture, as Seth called it, wouldn't end there. The couple was transported home later that day, but they would be back a lot sooner than Seth expected. What exactly happened to Mary and the horrific truth about why would soon be revealed. and it would all come down to Seth finally cracking. If you thought some of the things he said earlier were shocking, just wait because he's about to give us an alarming glimpse of his true thoughts.

The next day, Seth and Tatiana were brought back to the police station. However, this time they were both under arrest. That sounds like you may have been expecting us to come today and talk to you the day. I mean, I expected all the worst. Yeah, you did. Pretty much, that's pretty much what I come to expect of the U.S. government. So, separate, if you kids, he'd be very little separators from the U.S. government because we're not U.S. Well, I know you guys are part of the machine, though.

So we try to keep ourselves a part of the machine. But I think we're pretty easy guys. He's kind of a jerk sometimes. The detective makes a joke about his colleague to try and build rapport with Seth, who obviously has no desire to get friendly with them. He's in a closed-off position with his hands crossed in front of him. When you said you kind of expected this to come back, but what made you think we were going to come back? Well, your job is to fill cells.

So there is, they're still, oh, sells? Yeah. So, I mean, that's the purpose from the truth. Why would you say I'm radical? You know, I'm just, I'm out there. I know that. What makes you think you're out there, though, I think when you say you're out there, what you believe, though, is what you believe,

even though you think, others think you're out there. You think, well, you're just correct, right? That you're there? Yes. Suddenly you're that far out there by any means. The doctor, the video autopsy? Yes. So she's been my fix for a while.

He said she hasn't eaten or drank. That's important. You guys have searched for her, I'm happy to renew it and have you go through my garbage. And she all made you fluke. I'm not saying you're not a hearing guy because I think you absolutely are. I think Tatiana's a very caring lady. I think with the kids you guys have, the farm you're trying to run

with the pressures of providing for your family, I think some meals got missed over the last couple of months, and gradually she's been moving away. The detective presents an alternative theory as to how this happened to make it seem unintentional. Removing intent from the equation may make it easier for Seth to admit. He takes responsibility for doing,

doing a lot of the feeding and therefore leaves no room for any explanation for her excessively low body weight. She always eats all four cups of shock. She always eats everything. Yeah. Never, she spent much to that up. I mean, she's been, she's been, she's been a little bit, but not like that. I mean, I got my little bad stains from, from, see, I mean, I'm not, I'm not bullshit

me guys, this is from me carrying her. Yeah. And then, um, sorry, go ahead. No, I know this is tough for you. And we're not, like, so we're not here a dick on you. After he points to the stain on his shirt, Seth appears to become fidgety, moving his left leg repeatedly. It's possible that pointing to a stain left by his daughter, who is now dead,

may have gotten Seth emotional. But if he's not being truthful, maybe Seth simply got nervous here because he's having to make up stories to try to cover up for this case of severe neglect and abuse. She cries whenever she's something wrong, whenever she's uncomfortable, whenever she's hungry, upset in any way. She's, she'll have, you know, quick. Like, she's worse than the other kids about crying. But...

Seth may have unknowingly revealed his feelings about Mary being a burden, leading to a possible motive as to why she was starved to death. He had to care for her for several hours while Tatiana was at work, so he likely had to manage Mary's crying, plus caring for the other two children on his own. The motive could have been to remove a financial, burden as well. In the words, it's just like, okay, obviously, you know, bone broken.

But if it's going to be something where basically some guy in a white coat, no offense, I don't have a coat, it's fine, has a graph that says, oh, well, she needs to be this many inches and this much weight. And since she's not, we're going to call CPS and put you on this drug program. And maybe I'm wrong or God just has his will and his plan for things. but I thought she was going to make it. So I kind of just honestly thought that, you know, if I did the right things, if I did her right,

you know, we made sure to not just love her and love her for who she is and not try to secularly, religiously beat her over the head with all different kinds of things because she didn't match up to something on a graph. Instead of taking responsibility for the lack of care Mary received, he's making it clear that he doesn't believe he's personal. at fault.

At some point, you know that she weighed one pound and four ounces more than she was born. No, I do not. One pound and four ounces more than a baby. She weighed less than a lot of babies are born. The detective repeats this shocking revelation twice in a row to stress how insanely small she was. Seth still has no real reaction. I have a photograph up her. right here on my email if you'd like to see it so you can at least see what we're looking at

I'm sure I'm sure it looks terrible I'm sure you guys are seeing the absolute worst of it do you want to see that I don't really want to if I will not make this no I will not I saw it and that was quite enough for me I'd like you to look at it but I would not I would never make don't ever confuse that I'm going to demand if you look at you or your dad I'll give you that option Well, I already close you, but if you want to show it to me, I'll look at it. But she don't want to. Not really, no.

Okay. I don't even bring up to try to close anyone. I don't know. She's been out to see through her lenses and see if that's what you recall. See, is that what you remember? Why don't you go ahead and show it to me? I can tell you what I remember from the day before. She looked very different when she was dead.

I don't know what happened that night. It is clearly not possible for Mary to lose that much weight overnight. He has his arms crossed over his chest in a protective, defensive posture, and his leg is visibly shaking, showing signs of his stress. Now, this is her size. That's what she looked like, right? One way to move to her home. This is a telling moment. They're showing him a picture of what everyone agrees to be horrific, and he has very little, if any, physical response to it.

Delane's term, she died because she was dehydrated and helpful. starvation, dehydration. And here's the name, we're not. I know, I know, I get it. I get it. I just, I don't, the thing for me is I, it's, it's almost like a, like a hellish miracle because I don't know how, I got to remember, come on like a bitch. Let me talk to you a minute, okay?

Neither of us is saying that either of you don't love your kids, because it is obvious, you do. Also very obvious. that you're lying to us right now. By your reckoning. No, hold on. Now, by my reckoning. Yes, because you can't, you weren't there.

You can't say, and so to say that it's a lot, you know, that's something you're going to have to bring up with God in your own day. Hold on. Okay. I got the evidence, man. Okay, we're not gotters. What the enemy is saying is that she's hurt. Okay, that's what they're saying.

So if that's the case, we're not in trustness either, but there wasn't enough frequent feedings. to sustain her. The detective uses the reed technique of offering an alternative theory that over time the feedings become inadequate, and they just didn't realize it. This is making it almost like accidental starvation, so Seth may be more prone to accept some blame. You know the M.E. said, and he does, she at least two autopsies that day,

had never seen a case that bad. Looks like she wasn't in a concentration camp. Everything you're saying to me is terrible and makes me feel like absolutely good. But I don't know what to say because I said her, do you think people in concentration cancer look like that out that way overnight? No. But they gradually start looking worse. Like that for a lot of soul that your wife thought a couple of days ago,

she was probably going to die. I guess is. I'll say I think you're lying. Because she would have said, you were a gravely ill. and that she thought she was going to know. I also know you guys are trained to lie, so we do from time to time. Are we lying to you now?

Absolutely not. Which is also why there's no emotion because you already knew she was going to die. Now, you sit across from this table and call yourself my brother and say things like that. I think it's possible. You tell me. They call him out on his lack of emotion, but he shows no change in facial expression and keeps his arms up in a barrier. I can tell you for a fact. She looked like this for at least a week.

Something was wrong. I don't see you didn't necessarily feed her. Maybe you thought she had a disease or something, like you mentioned earlier. But she looked like that for a while, and you knew. No. The reason why I might deal with no emotion, I was crying in the holding cell. But what do you think we were doing for the hour before I called you guys? What do you think we were doing all last night?

You don't know what I've been through to get me here. You know, I don't know. I'm not coming out with a victim story, or pity me, but it hasn't been the easiest walk for me. So I can deal with stuff. Seth is expressing how hard this has been for him, yet he hasn't once expressed any remorse for his child. He appears unable to consider anyone else but himself.

I don't know. I don't, I, you know, my very straight master, is that, you know, God gives and God takes away. How does she get so skinny and thin? Like I said, I don't know, because I used to feed her. I think we're kind of half the result of why, and I think we're just trying to get a concession of something. Yes, I love a confession of something.

Whether there's criminal liability found or not, I'm still responsible for anything that could have been done different, anything that could be changed. Well, of course, you know, the standard, party line answer is, you know, go see the doctor and see what's wrong as to why she's not gaining weight. This statement says that he knows what they think he should say, but he doesn't actually think that is what they should have done, and he doesn't have any regret. Although he stated earlier that he's responsible for what happened, he's not really taking responsibility.

Let's go the natural answer. We don't let us sleep 15 to 18 hours and we'll hear. No doctorate necessary. I've never, well, I've never encountered that to be a advice, medical issue. Grace for you and her. I mean, not really. Otherwise, you guys wouldn't be trying to destroy what left. You don't understand that. What should we do differently?

Well, I don't think that putting either, to be honest, I don't be putting either one of us in jail is going to do anybody any good. Seth is actually trying to now blame the detectives for destroying his family because they're holding him and Tatiana accountable. There is no, there's no justice for her. There's no, there's no, there's no crime. There's no crime in this? Well, I know that the American court system will come up with a crime.

Seth then makes a series of shocking statements that show his true thoughts. The reason why it's like hard for me is because this is a very new, idea that, like, every time somebody dies, it has to be like somebody has to go into a box or somebody's got to be convicted. I mean, it used to be calming for kids not to make it. That's called natural selection, and it's a hard part of real life on earth. I don't know if you are no bad about this. What do you think? These callous remarks are further evidence that he, One, has no remorse, and two, lacked a true emotional connection with Mary. There's a difference between, you know, almost honestly.

I mean, like you're saying, obviously, oh, well, I don't cure it. I know that's how you take it, but I'm not really too, to worry about it when I get up in front of a judge or jury. So it's a hard thing for me. It's a hard thing for me. Hypothetically, you had a million dollars. Would you then send your kids in the doctor? Is that what I, would I be more asked to seek, you know, medical advice attention? Yes, I would.

If it was something that was more affordable, easier to access, yes, I would. What, is there anything I can help clear up? Why did we not get help weeks ago? Okay. That's just kind of what we're at. I was like, do you think you've done anything wrong? There are certainly some things that I would do differently in hindsight. Nothing is keeping me up at night.

And we're about done, okay? But is this something you would ask, Jesus for forgiveness for? No, I'm still holding out that there's something else going on in her. He doesn't view this as him taking a life. He may see the police's intervention as a nuisance, and he thinks he should be able to return to his life. This reveals that Mary's life doesn't seem to be worth all this trouble to him. I'll say, guys, I'm a little surprised at felony murder.

I thought maybe, you know, reckless endangerment, child endangerment, something like that. Well, sir, that's the arrest. That's the arrest and a prosecutor to make it for the scam. Okay. We do not have it. I was going to say you guys haven't even had time to, like, not court or anything. Though Seth was offended at the felony murder, charge, that is exactly what happened. Seth and Tatiana sit side by side as they wait to hear

the charges against them and the possible sentencing that accompanies each of the charges. Both of their very different reactions speak for themselves. They're alleging that you murdered one Mary Welch. That is a charge called homicide felony murder. It is life without parole. It requires a DNA sample to be taken upon arrest, which is a often like a cotton swab or inside of your cheek. The second offense that you're both charged with is called child abuse in the first degree, where they're alleging you knowingly or intentionally caused serious physical harm to a child. They're talking about this Mary Welch.

It is a felony, possible penalty of up to life imprisonment, or any term of years, less than life. At her trial, Tatyana shared with the court a very different story than the one that she told investigators initially. She testified that she was abused, threatened, and tortured by Seth on a daily basis, and that it left her unable to take care of Mary. She was found guilty on all charges and sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Seth was also convicted of murder and first-degree child abuse and sentenced to life in prison without the chance of parole. Thank you.