EXPLORE WITH US - When Evil Teens Think Murder is Hilarious

Episode Date: November 30, 2023

When evil teens think murder is HILARIOUS...The following podcast episode is not legal advice. Do not rely on the information in this presentation without speaking to a licensed attorney.No one discussed in these videos has been formally diagnosed by EWU and our psychological analysis is based on the general behaviors and traits of the people discussed.

Three doors down so you can't ignore it. Hi, Grandma, have you heard from mom? There's like a part of me that knows I shouldn't feel bad, but I can't feel anything for it. I don't know what I do. I'm not going to get a birthday or Christmas, and this owned Van Lange's whole family. Dude, I'm not even getting the word. Come on. Shh. Someone's about to get fired.

I'll hunt you down like a Tyrannosaurus. On the afternoon of November 2nd, 2018, as the Volusia County, officers respond to a 911 call about a burglary. Little did they know they were actually stepping into the most disturbing case Volusia County had ever seen. 911, where's your emergency? I just got home and my house is completely trashed. It looks like someone broke in the side door.

How long have you been gone? I've been gone all school day. Are you there by yourself? Yeah. How old are you? 15. I need you to take a deep breath. I'm going to ask you a few questions, okay? Okay. My mom's car, she ranks on and she's not home, and she's supposed to go to work today, and I can't find her. Okay. Your mom's car is there. Is there any other way she ever get to work? Does she ever get a ride from anyone else? No, the car is on. It's turned on. And you're sure she is not there.

I searched the entire place. I've been here for like eight minutes. I didn't work. I can't find her. I'm right here with you, okay. What's your name? All right. My phone name is Gregory. Logan Ramos. Is there anybody that has made any threats to your mom or to you? No, no, no, no. As the 911 operator is gathering information from 15-year-old Gregory, officers are arriving on the scene.

She's on the scene. I copy, thank you. A lady, Provinger. Where does she work? She works in an architecture firm. I'm in Orlando. Is she normally home this time of day? No, she can tell me 6, 6.30.

Can you actually leave for work before you? She dropped me off. And then she usually just heads back to the sunrail and hops in the train with her bike. Does anybody else live here once again? My dad and my two-step siblings. Where are they? My dad is on a visit trip in Seattle. He'll be back this afternoon at 6, 6-30.

Okay. And then the two-step children have their moms. Okay. But everything is gone. Except for like the mounted TV on my wall, there's everything about. Hoping to gain some insight into this burglary, two officers take a walk through Gregory's house. To their horror and shock, the home had been trashed beyond recognition. Every part of the house has been rifled through.

The bedroom's closets are emptied out and dumped all over the floor. In the kitchen, every single cabinet was open and rifled through, including those under the sink. Glass littered the floor of the kitchen as the burglars had taken it upon themselves to smash all the glassware. That's weird. Why is there, all this crap up here is spilt? There's a broken glass here. I was all this broken, dude. The damage around the house is more severe than a standard burglary,

and the officers can't help but wonder if maybe these burglars had a personal vendetta against Gregory's mother, Gale, or his family, as the officers make preparations. to take 15-year-old Gregory back to the station so he can be comfortable while they process the home. One of the neighbors approaches them. Just so I do have a key to their house, but I haven't been up here since yesterday evening. Or after you and I, I spoke, I talked to his parents.

Okay. As I told him, this young man has some depression problems really bad. Has she had any issues with him lately? No, not that I know of. While processing continues at the house, Gregory is taken to the station. Seeking comfort and support, he calls Ken Jones, his sponsor with the police explorers, a youth program that allows teens interested in law enforcement to learn the basics and help their local sheriff's office.

Ken meets Gregory at the station and the two sit down for a chat in the following never-before-seeing footage. It's been analyzed by a qualified team, including a licensed professional counselor, a licensed attorney, and a former detective, former licensed polygraph examiner and former hostage negotiation commander and instructor. While Ken helps calm Gregory down, he notices some bruises on Gregory's face. What happened here? I got a fight yesterday. Which one of my friends? I didn't see that yesterday.

I had makeup. Great. It was a conversation with my friends. We got into disagreement. But I solved the problem. I talked to it out with him. And we made up and he apologized for hitting me and I accepted it. What was it then?

We hugged it out. Joe, did the SR, do you know about the fight? The who? The USRour, we're a good. No, this wasn't, there was no fight. He just came up. He's like, Greg. And I was, I didn't head back or anything.

It was just, right? And I was like, okay, well, calm down. Let's tuck it out. We talked it out. And was Joe's last night? I don't know. They's your friend. Do be honest with me, Craig.

What was his last thing? I don't know. Who does those things? I don't know. One of the matters is, though, if we made up, it was just a conversation that happened, it wasn't anything too important. We talked it out, and we hugged,

and it was like, dude, you know, I'm sorry. I made a mistake, and he was justified. And I said, I'm sorry for making that mistake. What time this happened yesterday? Well, dark of the afternoon. But I saw you, like, what? What time did you get out of the fair? Like up there, seven.

Okay. I just seen that I put makeup on it before you can. came out? Yeah. Some concealer. Why would you do that? Because I didn't want to work shopping detail with scars on my face. I guess that's reasonable.

The longer he chats with Ken, the more Gregory worries about his mother, Gail. Do you know if any of these developments have been made, if anything happened? They're going to tell you everything that goes on. But I'm trying to make sure that you're in the right one. Because, you know, when you call me, you were very upset. Well, she had called me earlier. I could have come down here earlier with you. That's why I want to come down here at me.

make sure that you're okay, look at me for a second. No matter what's happened, it's very important that whatever it is, that you're up front and on, see, even like remember what Joe's last thing is. Because that's important. So what we act upon when you tell us things is what we're going to do. I know. We've got to be able to trust you. His sponsor, Detective Jones, is acting like a father figure here, telling him to look at him

and to be honest. In contrast, Gregory is sitting cross. cross-armed and doesn't appear comfortable. As a 15-year-old kid, he should be panicking and asking about where his mom is, and yet, he's oddly calm. You know, no, I'm not saying to tell him the truth. You know, for some reason, you don't want to tell me gently. I don't know why. Why wouldn't you want to tell me you? I'm not going to go run after telling him in trouble. That's kind of like a question to make sure that you're going to be honest with it.

I do have my vocal cooperation. It's just I don't want, I don't want an unrelated, sitting to be drawn into them more. Well, we may need to make sure it isn't related. We need to make sure that people didn't come there and hurt you to. Is that possible? No, it's not. Okay. If it was, I would have voiced my concerns already.

Okay. That's fair. But we don't want to make sure that you're okay. I'm fine. Because you guys want to ask you a lot of questions, they're going to be hard questions. It's going to be a lot harder than me asking what that guy's name is. Okay. Not if you put up any wall.

I want you to just tell them exactly what happened. I want to ask all my questions. I'm ready. With Gregory feeling more comfortable, Sergeant Pagliari begins the interview. A couple things. As you can see, I see, as you keep looking at my recorder, so everything that I do, obviously, is recorded. Okay? Plus you see the camera up in the same now. Gregory is read his rights as a standard procedure. In Florida, there's no requirement for a parent to be present in order to interrogate a minor. However, there is an obligation to notify a parent or legal guardian when a minor is taken into custody, which isn't the same thing as questioning.

The general take on the Florida parental notification requirement is that it's good faith, and the inability to make contact with a parent or guardian doesn't put a halt to any questioning. Still, it's important to note that Miranda rights apply to minors in Florida just as they do to adults. Now it's time for Sergeant Pagliari to get some background information on Gregory's mother and some recent trouble at school. How would you say your relationship is with your mom? It has a ups and downs. Okay.

I think everyone argues a little bit with your mom. Okay. We love each other a lot. I really hope she's okay. Have you ever been in trouble with the law before or anything? No, sir. No. Okay.

How about trouble in school? Yeah? Mm-hmm. Okay. Having his sponsor in the room should make him feel much more comfortable and relaxed. Yet Gregory has his arms tightly crossed, and his non-verbal communication is not. in sync with his verbals, indicating he's feeling anxiety.

Given the situation, this is understandable. He doesn't know where his mom is and his house has been burglarized. Still, he's very closed off. And I'm just getting back before we get into things. That's all we're trying to do here. So, like, trouble at school, like how? So I'm trying to think about that one. Last month, I saw us and OSS for that.

What is that sir? I don't know. ISS is in school suspension. OSS is out of school suspension. Okay. What happened? The weekend beforehand, my friend was feeling sick at all. So I went to go.

I snuck out of my house to go talk to him. And I talked with him. And my friend smokes cigarettes. And he gave me some take home with me. I put some on my backpack and I forgot to take them out. So when I was searched randomly at my school, they were found. And how did your mom feel about that? She was not happy.

But we worked out of a solution, which was me going to do? community service for my church. Okay. You talk about ups and downs in your mom's relationship, right? So that would probably be one of the downs, I would assume? No, because she was justified in her anger.

That was my fault, but previously my mom has done things that were not justified. You want to tell me about those? I really need to know it's wasn't anything serious. Gregory is making an attempt to not only be perceived as a good person

by making himself look like someone, who would admit it when he did something wrong, but also to control the interview when he adds, all you really need to know, given the fact that he's only 15. This is all very bold. Okay. I'm not here to get your mom in trouble, all the way.

Yeah, I know. Okay. So if you're trying to, if you think that what you're going to tell me is going to negatively affect what I think about your mother, that's not going to it at all. It's just hard for me to talk about. Okay.

Now that he understands Gregory a bit better, it's time for Pagliari to start creating a timeline from the day before the burglary. Who stayed at your house last night? Who was at my house last night? Yes. Gregory repeats the question before answering, which gives him a pause to think about what exactly he wants to say.

The reason this is a red flag is because the question is simple and straightforward, and not a complex question that requires a lot of thought. Me and my mother. Okay. Now, Detective Jones was talking to you and I was, again, listening. You were at a fair or something yesterday? Yesterday I was working in detail for the Orange City Police Explorers. I was helping park cars at the Volusch County Fair.

Do you know what time you came home last night? 847 maybe? Or so specific. That's just a time I remember probably from looking at my phone. The thing with the therapy detail ended early. It was supposed to go until 9, but I didn't get an end up a bit early. And so I got home around COVID. just closer to nine.

So, yeah. Mom was home? Yeah. Okay. And you guys, when you got home, conversation with mom, that's how your day was, anything? Yeah.

How'd that go? Good. Okay. We talked to be at dinner. What'd you guys have for dinner? I don't remember. You don't remember what you had? No.

It must not have been very eventful. No, he's just like a rip-night. There's a slight upward inflection when Gregory answers, good. This often indicates a bit of uncertainty. When you go home, conversation with mom, ask how your day was, anything? Yeah. How'd that go? Good. The rest of Gregory's answers are also short and vague.

But most interestingly, he also seems to be emphasizing that last night was, as he said, just like every other night. All of this together seems to suggest the opposite of what Gregory is saying. And something about last night was not good or like every other. So, mom doesn't make good food? Because there seems to me dinner's never eventful. You know what you're telling me? I don't know.

Because when I find her and tell her, I'm going to say, listen, Greg says the dinner's unavoid. You think he's going to be upset with me or upset with you, says that. Maybe. There are a few interesting interactions here. For one, a bit earlier, Gregory gives a very specific answer of 847, which sets the stage that his memory is very good. Second, the detective seems to have noticed how closed off Gregory is being still and is doing

a little bit of friendly picking on him to build rapport. However, when the detective talks about finding his mind, mom, Gregory makes some anchor point shifts. This thought should have raised a bit of hope or excitement, yet instead, he shows signs of anxiety. He said she goes off on you for other stuff, so I don't want her to go off on you for that. It's whatever. How do you deal with it when she goes off on you? I've gotten better at it. You've gotten better at it? I used to get really angry and emotional, but it kind of realized that on the worse.

It's the only way to do with it. The worst thing to do would be what to put your hands on her. I would never hear something like that. You were never putting hands on your own? No. And I think I've made up on quite clear to her. We had an argument a couple months ago. Like, it was like a long time ago. And she sat in across the room because she didn't trust me.

And I told her, I could yell and scream and yell at all I want. Do the exact same to you do it. But I would never, I'd never let my hands on me. That's just nothing like I do. Gregory repeats the statement that he would never lay his hands on his mother and then make some convincing character reference statements. It's clear that he's working really hard to be seen as a calm, non-violent person who couldn't have hurt his mom.

It makes you wonder why he feels the need to emphasize this when she's just missing at this point. Sergeant Pagliari begins building a timeline. Okay, what happened this morning? I slept in. My alarm was not set. She woke me up around 6.20. I sleep in my clothes. So what you're wearing right now is what you wore to school?

No, I changed shirts when I got home. Okay. I was sweaty. This is an odd detail. Why would Gregory even think of changing his shirt when he came home and found his house burglarized and his mother missing? But your pants and shoes are the same? Yes. And your socks.

You go, yeah? Yeah. Okay. So 620 you slept in. Okay. Mom came woke you up. Fired up, huh? She wasn't angry.

Okay. So Tom what happened? She's like, okay, you got to get up now. I'll brush your teeth in. Piling the car. So I grabbed my backpack. I went to brush my teeth, took up my retainer, kind of messed with my hair. kind of messed with my hair a bit, and then I got in the car.

So what time do you think you got to school? Honestly, I have no idea. Can't look at your phone? It's probably in the ballpark of a fully 640. Okay. It's certainly interesting that a few minutes ago, Gregory could remember the exact minute he got home, but now he honestly has no clue what time he got to school. Talk to anybody when you got there?

Hey, what's up? Do you have friends at school? Yes. Who'd you talk to? The first person you saw at school was who? For a brief moment, Gregory unblocked by lowering his arms and, leaning forward. He then rings his hands together before closing back off. Something about this line of questioning made him a bit uncomfortable, but why? Probably my friend, Cap. Cat? Yeah.

Where a girl? A female. You got the last name? No. He's your friend, your more or the last name. I'm going to keep your real with you. I don't really got that many friends. I'm not like a super social person. Okay. Nothing wrong with that. I have a lot of acquaintances that I have like that that would be either A had a class with the past or B have a classlet now or CNO from elsewhere. And so, yeah. Okay. No borders, man. No worries.

I get that. What's your first period, class, buddy? Biology. Who's that teacher? Mr. Olkstowski. Biology. Biology. What building is that room?

Building and everything else, you know? Building three. Four of three. 403 is the room Well, building three Four three. Oh, floor three. I don't have the room number.

You want to take a stab at spell on the last name of that teacher? L-A-T-S-O-Y or maybe W. And ski, I guess. Man, woman? He's a guy. Okay. Okay. You like him?

He's all right. I have a D in his class. You have a D? Yeah. How does a long feel about that? We had an argument about it last night. Oh. Tell me about that.

We talked about it. Basically, she's like, you know, I can't be doing this. And I'm just like, well, I got only used to be the last quarter. I can pull my grade up before the end of the semester. And she was like, you know, whatever, blah, blah, blah. Don't ask you a cocky. I'm like, I'm not. I just know I'm capable of doing fixedly.

Sergeant Pagliari has honed his skills when it comes to reading behavior, and he's picking up on some strange behavior from Gregory. You know, one thing that you said you'd like being a, or he wanted to be a detective someday. and in my personal experience when people start a story and then they go into the blah, blah, blah, part, that there's more to the blah, blah, blah. So if you will, Greg, tell me what the blah, blah, blah part was for this argument. Okay, well, basically, she was just kind of like, you know, whatever. If you have narcissistic sometimes, don't be so cocky.

Using the word basically tends to indicate that someone is leaving something out. This combined with Gregory's nonverbal behaviors such as self-soothing head rubbing, scratching, possible eye blocking and his one hand tightly across his stomach in a protective and guarded posture all seem to indicate that he's feeling a lot of anxiety. I was like, well, I'm not cocky, I'm capable. I feel like I have the skills because I've done it before to fix my grades in a short amount of time. And I was like, I probably could fix them by Friday and stuff. I'm just talking with her about that.

And she was like, all right, whatever, go study your biology. And I was like, all right, so I studied my biology for about an hour. and then I went into her room and she was on the phone with Dad I said hi to Dad and they hung up and I said to bring her with her for a good night and then our

whatever for our family honors for grandma for Uncle Joe and stuff like that when people say and then or jump to parts of their story by saying and repeated a few times in a row it tends to mean that they're going through events like their bullet points and they're usually leaving something out between the ands

I was like I probably could pick them by Friday So I studied my biology for about an hour, and then I went into her room, and she was on the phone with Dad. I said, I had Dad, and they had up, and I said, I said, I'd bring her with her for a good night, and that our, whatever, for our family hours, for Grandma, critical Joe, and stuff like that. Pay close attention to the moments when Gregory says, and then, as the questioning continues. And then I kissed her, and I went to sleep. Okay.

And that was around, I went to sleep around 11. but that's why I woke up playing. Okay. When was the first time somebody called you about, or did anyone call you about your mother not being at work or anything like that? I received no communication. I promise anyone about that. Okay.

With Gregory's school day seeming as normal as can be, the sergeant inquires about what he found when he got home that afternoon. Gregory gives some indication that he's feeling anxiety around the questions of what happened when he got home by fidgeting with his fingers, making anchor point shifts, and doing some self-soothing rubbing on his. arm. It's important to note that an innocent person might also experience anxiety with these questions as coming home to such a house after a robbery would be traumatic. However, it's still

going to be noted by the detective. How long would you say it takes you to get from the bus stop to your house? 10 to 15 minutes. You weren't running or anything to the word? Yeah. Okay. Gregory makes even more anchor point movement shifts as this line of questioning starts, moving his leg up into a barrier position, engaging in some self-soothing as well. Front door's lock used the key. Mom's car was in the driveway? Correct. And you told Detective Jones it was running.

It was running. Is that odd? Yes. Is it odd the fact that your mom's car is even there at all? Yes. One. Because she first at the Sunrail station, and then she takes your bike on the Sunrail to go to her job.

Times going to usually get home? 6.30. Cars in the driveway and it's running. That's weird. Car's there at all. It's weird. You agree? Yes.

So now you used to get you open the door. What did you do? What's the first thing you did when you went inside? Well, I noticed that there were shit all over the floor. Like, just a bunch of like crap. That river was thrown everywhere. And the closet doors were open, and there were stuff spilled on my table. I just noticed that the front view of my house was chaotic.

Spilled on the table. Where? I don't know. On the table. What room's a table? Oh, it's my house, you go through the front door, and there's this hallway. My room is this way. And then there's a dining room table right here.

Okay. And the next thing I did was he went in my room, and I noticed that there were things missing, and that there was dressers and crap, all that a lot of crap just pulled out and just thrown everywhere. What's missing from your room? Mainly, I didn't really look, like, look thoroughly for, like, everything that was missing from my room, but I noticed three things in particular. What are those? My stereo system. Describe what there was for three things. It's like a radio with two large speakers, and it lights up LED blue.

Do you know who makes it? Zero foot. Zero foot is pretty popular. Yeah, I know. Which other things you're missing? My gaming computer. Is it a, describe it to me? It is white.

It has a glass side and inside. You can see the wires and the graphics cards and lots up inside, and it goes LED blue. So it's like a tower, not a laptop? It is, yeah. It's a big boy. Is that attached you to a monitor? That's how you play? Yeah, I paid for all my own money from summer jobs and stuff.

That's you pretty pissed off that's gone. I'd be pissed off. Spent all your money that you've earned to buy this computer tower. Now it's gone. Mom, I'm more pissed off that my mom is gone. Right, for you see that. This is an interesting moment. It appears that Gregory doesn't want to show anger about his missing things,

so he deflects it back to his missing mom to appear like the appropriately concerned teenager, but it all seems a little forced. What's the third thing? I know my, I have a 25th. I forget the weight on it, but it's a hunting legal combat bow. Compact bow. Do you mean that? Yeah.

That makes a phone call. I actually something is to talk to me. You can talk to Detective Jones. While Sergeant Pagliari steps out of the room to make some calls, Gregory chats with Detective Jones. What do you think my house will not be a crime scene? Hello? I have to take hours.

It's time to take almost a day and a half. I know you've worked in cases like this before. I have. It takes a while sometimes. And the more information you can give them, the better off it is. Yeah. They need to know what to do, where to go.

I made a lot of bad decisions in my life, with regards to other things. Yeah. And he's just... His answer here immediately grabs Detective Jones's attention, and he moves into the confession position. Gregory must have noticed because he quickly clarified, with regards to other.

things, but it makes you wonder what exactly is his sponsor thinking in this moment. Now, my mom's gone. I can file with myself. Oh, how do you need best? Okay. You know what knows where the hell? She said, why would a home and date her take, like, take hostage? Somebody knows.

Yeah, I do. Yeah. I do too, Greg. I can't imagine what it'd be like, are you going to? Do I be mom about you? After you guys had your argument with her last night. If you were here right now, what would you say to me?

I would just feel like such a dick after every argument we have. It just makes me agree. We don't understand each other. People are different people. We have different opinions, but we love each other. You know, you feel guilty about the fight of them? I just do what? I just wish she's.

I hope she's. Did you say you were back? Gregory makes a big mistake here. he slips up saying, I hope she's saved. He may have just given away not only what happened to his mom, but that he may know more about it than he's letting on. To cover, he starts to cry.

But if you're wondering if he's actually upset, notice that he gets distracted and has to brush his hair out of his face. After the detective helps Gregory calm down, Pagliari comes back into the room with more questions, hoping to get any information from Gregory that might help them find his mother. So you were talking about going through the house, you went down, took some inventory. Well, after I went downstairs, looking for my mom, I didn't find her, I went back upstairs, and I decided I needed to check on my dog.

He's so eager to continue a story that he actually interrupts the detective. Going through the house, you went down, took some inventory. Well, after I went downstairs. He seems pressured to go through what he did when he got home, and to do. explain everything. This is really interesting because an innocent person shouldn't feel the need to explain things. It simply is what it is. If the house was broken into rob, I thought there was a good chance that killed my dog. But I mean, I didn't know he didn't rough that much, but I didn't know if they were going to do that or like whatever. I didn't know what was going to happen. So I walked into

the laundry room and I saw everything was. like displaced, right? But my dog was fine. And that's when I noticed the door. The door I can

stand up to show you. You want to stand up to show me? Okay. So let's say this is the knob for the door. I don't know the deadbolt here. The deadbolt was unlocked, right? And this was locked. But this entire wooden area on this frame

was looking at been busted open. Like the force of the door was so powerful that it had literally broken the wood. And I recognize that as someone kicking in the door. It's odd that Gregory thinks this is something he needs to demonstrate. It's more likely that he feels the need to burn off nervous energy. Why do you think that? Because either that or they somehow forced the door open, but it had to be a strong enough force to break this, like, to break, like,

a person to break it off, basically it has to be strong to do that. Sure. So, did you think that... Yeah. The force and everything you're talking about here is just because of that, based off your explorer training? Um, there's common sense. I'm just assuming, just thinking out loud of, like, you have, have to be able to be, like, either strong enough or there needs to be, like, a certain amount of

force for the, for the wood, like a door frame to, like, basically, like, crack and, like, make, like, make the lock get out. Sure. As Gregory draws out a layout of his home for Sergeant Pagliari, he mentioned something odd that he noticed in his mother's room. I made it to the master bedroom, and it was just really bad. It was terrible in there. And one thing I noticed was that the bed was at an angle.

What's it supposed to be? Supposed to be straight on. Now, there's a dresser here. There's a dresser here. There's a couple of shelves, and there's a mirror hair, and then there's a dresser here. And then that's the bathroom going on. But that is that bed was out of place. That's one of the major things I noticed was the bed was out of place.

There's been a shift in how Gregory Annam answers these questions, and he's much more open to talking about things that have nothing to do with his mother. So after I surveyed the house and looked for my mom, I called the cops. I'm pretty sure you know the rest of the story. Yeah. Did you see, there's one thing I want to ask you about. You said he came home from school and you wore different clothes at school. So you went through the whole house, you did all this surveying and everything. At what point did you think it was pertinent to change your clothes? All right, let me tell you. So I was sweating my ass off, right? I was really hot. Instead of just answering the question directly,

he goes into a long story to explain his actions, which is another sign that he feels nervous about what he's saying. I told my family this, I thought I told you this, but I got in the house and I felt sick. I couldn't find my mom. I was freaking out. I was just, was not in a good place. And so I went to my bathroom and I threw up in the toilet.

And I then proceeded to the flush to throw up down. And then I took off my school shirt and then I changed to do a different share. I didn't know if there was any throw up on it or not. But I was feeling hot and sweaty. And I needed a change the color. Where's your shirt I have? It's my hamper. Where's that?

I don't know. Okay. Sergeant Pagliari clarifies one final detail before diving into Gregory's story. If things seem a little odd so far, then get ready. because this is where things start to get even stranger. The Tinker Jones was talking about the marks to your face. And I want to talk about that a little bit more. Right.

All right. When did that happen? Can I ask what relevance is to the conversation? Everything is relevant, right? Asking about the relevance is the kind of thing you could expect to hear from an experienced criminal as a deflection, or from a savvy adult with a lawyer perhaps. But this is unexpected awareness on the part of a young seemingly not criminal. involved teen. He sounds like a defense lawyer here, not a kid. It also shows that he may be

fishing to see what information they have. Now they're going to say, hey, listen, you know, Greg's mother's missing. Greg has marks on his face. Is it possible that Greg got him some kind of multiplication of his mother? Right? They're going to ask me that. Yeah. Okay. So now I need to explain when you got those marks in your face. All right. Good. When? Yesterday. Yesterday? What time? After school. We're at. student parking lot. Okay. You do it.

My friend Joe. What's his last name? It starts with an L. You have a class with him? No. He's older than me, but he's, um... He's what? He's older than me?

Older than me? Older. White male, black male? White male. White. Okay. Well, great you think. Joe L. is in.

He's a junior. How long have you known him? Year and a half. Okay. Not a nice in a situation to you? because it probably looks like I got my ass beat. Go ahead, please. Tell me what happened.

All right, so at Homecoming, Joe's ex-girlfriend was attempting to grind on me. I don't know if you know what it is. Tell me what it is. It's like when you have, you have, well, I was hanging out with my friend. I'm my other friends, right? And they're getting granted on, right?

But I don't have a girlfriend. I'm kind of more focused on other things, and I don't have time for that. And so his ex-girlfriend, Joe's ex-girlfriend, comes with the grind on me, and I'm like, no, I don't really want to do that. And she's like, come on, it'll be fun. And so she did it, and I kind of just kind of lied her because I wanted to head in, I guess. But Joe found out, so he gave up to me, and then he slapped me and he pushed me. And he goes, dude what the hell.

You know, why would you do that? And I, and we talked to that. And I basically explained him that I was at fault. I shouldn't have done that. I value more, I value more than those other people. You know, I value what we have. And I wouldn't want to end that. And I want you to understand that I'm sorry.

And that I really want to continue being friends with you. And he was like, you know, I was kind of a dick move for me to come up and hit you without any preface. So I'm sorry that I did that. Then we hugged. And I said, see you tomorrow. That was it. Was there anybody else there as follows? No. Not that I know of is a selective memory statement, but Gregory's entire story is full of red flags, starting with the neck rubbing. It's not particularly believable that most teen boys would get in a fight like that and make up that quickly, never mind hug and not even know each other's last names. Either Gregory actually has no clue how normal interactions work, or he thinks the officers are that naive and dumb

that they will believe this story. So you were just in the parking lot? Like, were you walking, were you hanging out? I mean, tell me about how he, I was hanging out with my friends. So you were there in the park of a lot of other people? Yeah. Okay. Well, can you name somebody with the first and last name. Brian Porenz? Brian Porenz. Spell it for him, both. Give it a go. P-O-R-E-A-Z?

P-O-R-E-Z? So, Horace, yeah. Okay. What grade is he in? He is in here. Is he in a class with you? No. But yeah, no. He saw it all go down. So Brian Pores saw Joe L punch you in face.

Yeah. In the student park on like yesterday, the university high school. Yes. Okay. Gregory's story is now out in the open, but there are a few issues with it. While Sergeant Pagliari has been speaking with Gregory, another investigator has been verifying information with Gregory's school, and things just aren't lining up.

That's 100%. That's happening? No, that's it. I mean, you're telling me that we're telling me it's the truth. Yeah. Okay. You're in school all day. Yep.

I have never been like. So I believe everything that you told me today, Greg? I mean, it's up to you. Well, do you, here's the thing, okay? Do you think that I'm not going to go or have some of my detectives go and run down your story and verify all these places you're at? Yeah. An honest person is much more likely to just say yes or ask why wouldn't you instead of a more confrontational answer like, it's up to you. And when I do that, what are they going to tell me?

No, they're going to tell you it's truthful. That you were in, you went to every class today. I was late to the seventh period and I was in the auditorium six period I don't think I mentioned that but Okay so you didn't check yourself out of school today at 110 No one So the school's wrong

What do you mean? So if the school tells me that Greg checked himself out of school today At 110 p.m. that's wrong Yeah I was there all day Okay So if Mr. Dye tells me you weren't in school today In his class

He's wrong No No, he's not wrong, but I didn't leave the school. So you lied to me. Oh, I didn't leave the school. You asked me off the school, I said no. You lied to me. Curious.

I don't give a damn what it's about you. You lied to me. What happened? Gregory seems to freeze a bit here, like he's trying to decide what his next story is going to look like. The detective just confronted him, and now he's entered the deconflicting stage of the liar's loop for this part of his lie. He now has to make his story fit into what the detective.

detective already knows. As well, the detective is doing a good job of slowly entering the confrontation stage of the reed technique, bringing up piece by piece to see how Gregory responds. He's also sitting in the same position as Gregory. This kind of mirroring is meant to improve rapport and connection, even while confronting him. Well, as you know, I have a D in biology. I fell asleep in his class, and so I needed to get shit done. I needed to go in that grind. I skipped into the auditorium, six and seven period. And I sat down and I took that time and I did my bio homework. And the stuff I needed to do for bio because I'm missing a frick tonal of assignments in there.

I think I'm missing in total. I'm missing six. It doesn't need to be done. So why went to school? So you checked yourself out of 110? Because I would show up absent for both of those classes. You can't check yourself out. It's hard to tell if Gregory is being genuine,

but if he's willing to lie about something like this, then what else could he be lying about? Why'd you lie to me about stupid as biology? Because I don't want you to have a bad opinion of me, because I want you to understand. I've done a lot of wrong things in my life, and I acknowledge that. I don't make the best decisions.

But if something serious is this, or my mom is missing, I need you to, I need you to, you know, Not now, but that's good to me. My opinion of you, Greg, is whatever you tell me. My job is not here to make judgments good, bad, or indifferent. My job is to get as much as I can from you to help find your mother. Now, when you lie to me, even if it's a little pit, yeah, you lose some credibility.

And you can get all upset and cry about it. That's just the way that it goes. No, I get it. You hear what I'm saying? No, I hear what you saying? And then I get these things about, well, who's the guy that drove you? I don't know. Brian's something.

Well, I didn't lie to you. I legitimately forgot. his name, but the first time I was talking about, these things that you tell me, right, especially when you're not in school. Can anybody verify you or where were you when you did your biology homework in the auditorium? So I want to see you on camera in the auditorium doing your biology homework. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. Okay. So if I don't see that, and I call you a liar again, am I right to do that? Yeah. That's what you will see, so I don't really worry about it. Okay. All right. So if I were to hypothetically,

just say, or just the same night hypothetically. If I were to say that you went home last night, got an argument with your mom for whatever reason, I guess it was the biology thing, right? Because I know she told her dad, but you guys got an argument about it. If I were to say that you go to school and then you came home, somehow you got home on, I'm not sure how you got home, but you checked yourself out. Now again, give me some credit here. You check yourself out, or you left school checking out. You just left. Somehow you got home. You get home, something happens to your mom or you and your mom got into hands-on, you do something to your mom. Wouldn't that be far-fetched?

What are you mean? You killed your mom. Why would you think I would do that? Following this accusation, Gregory freezes and pauses for a long time. Right now, he's been pretending that she's just missing, so this is a big jump, but Gregory's response is very suspicious. He doesn't show any anger or indignation as you would expect from an innocent person being accused.

He just flipped it and asked the detective a question. He didn't even deny it. He just deflected. You tell me, you guys have ups and downs. You got marks on your face. You told me Joel is the one that punch you in the face. But before you didn't say shit about it. I did ask.

I did ask. I said, who was there? I don't know. Oh, maybe my friend was there. Your credibility with me, Greg, sometimes, is up and down. So again, when I ask you, would it be farfetched if you came home today and killed your mother? Yeah.

You did kill your mother? No. But it'd be far-fetched. Yeah. What? So, there are you something like that. But she's hit you? No, she's hit you.

This is the first big confrontation when Pagliari states, You killed your mom. He then attempts to build a theme that she's been hitting Gregory, offering him some kind of justification. But as the accusations against him become more and more severe, Gregory seems to realize that the only way to protect his innocence is to make some tragic and startling revels. Have you ever been saying consulted?

No. Have you? Yes. Okay. I have. I was certain consulted. I reported it to police. They did nothing.

Okay. So the only person that was really there for me were my parents. My mom was the one who helped me through that dark time in my life. I felt too. I attempted to more than once, more than three times. She never put me in all facts. she never called the cops she never did any of that

she helped me through that that time in my life where I was in a better place and she saved me I love my mom more we have our ups and down than we have our problems but I love her

the timing of his story is questionable he seems to be trying to deflect from the accusation that he killed his mother and put himself into a victim role in the eyes of the detective It's a fairly common tactic for narcissistic individuals to use threats or actions like this to manipulate others. He also makes really intense eye contact while leaning forward and seems to be trying to read if he believes his story. This position is similar to the confession position, but the officers don't have him to that point yet.

He's just trying to manipulate them into believing him. And I was explaining to the detective Jim's earlier. I had gotten into an argument with my mom maybe a year ago. And she sat me across the room, and she said, I'm scared of you. She's like, because I would never do that. I think it would do. She's done too much for me to make sure her family for me to only hands my mother. You're a detective, right?

Do you want to know what happened to do it? Yes. Do you want to, me and you want the same thing. Yes, you want to find my mom. I want what happened to your mom. I want to know what happened to my mom as well. And I don't think she's dead. Whatever.

I try to think positively. but it's whatever. The point of matter is, like I've said before, in our previous conversation. Like I said before is a reference statement and saves him from having to repeat a lie again. I've made some mistakes in my life and I regret them. And now I'm going to voice my mistakes to you

so you can understand what happened. I don't know what happened to my mom. That's the first thing I want to get out. I don't know what happened to my mom. But I do know where I was. I know how everything gets fired. And I know that I like you a lot because I wanted to protect my own name. But I realized now that after you told me, after you asked me whether I killed my mom or not,

I realized that there's something more important than just me. And that's how to help my family and get them the answer that they want. Gregory is really trying to position himself as a good person by repeating how much he cares about his mom, family, and how great of a kid he is. A truly innocent person would likely not need to repeat this to convince anyone, as it would be obvious. I need to be completely honest with you, and so, hey, can I tell you what happens? It's clear that he's used to being in charge and telling adults what to do, as it's very bold for a 15-year-old to tell a detective what to do, such as flip the top. page. As Gregory begins to spill the beans on the events leading up to the incident, his story sounds similar at first, with him getting a ride home from the police explorers the previous night

and getting into a fight with his mother over his grades. However, things took a shocking turn after Gregory supposedly went to bed that night. Around 11 o'clock on Thursday, I went to sleep. I just kind of went to my room and turned off the lights. I'm not allowed out of my phone in my room. do something we'll discuss soon. So I go at 11. No, 11. I probably, I waited until 12.30 until I went to my mom's room and got my phone. As he launches into this story, Gregory includes a ton of unnecessary details to try to appear honest.

This type of embellishment is an attempt to bury the story in the details. It's also interesting because it can help manage the anxiety of being dishonest by including all these tidbits of over-onesty in the story. With this many details, it's almost like he's attempting to derail the conversation away from finding his mom by going into so many tangents. I then proceeded to call my friends to come pick me up, and I snuck out of my window, and I got picked up my five friends. I then went to, we drove around town, first off.

We did that for about an hour. Just before he launches into this story, he shifts away from everyone, back into the side, away from his sponsor. It seems like he doesn't want to be a part of this conversation anymore. In that hour or two, I smoked a lot of cigarettes, drunk on alcohol. Did it all watch. But so whatever, right? It's now 1.30, I believe. And I'm back.

Go to where. me and my friends get we're in the car and I have to understand while my friends did come quote unquote pick me up

I was the one driving and I wasn't and while I had had some drinks I wasn't drunk I wasn't drunk driving like I was fully

lucid unconscious so I was driving my mom's gonna be van we drove to this church and There's a fire pit in the back. Smove a bit there.

I bought an LSD tab. So my other friends. Kind of chilled there, and we would go back and forth between my house to get more money, to go to 7-Eleven or other places and get food or drinks or snacks in general. So we traveled a lot between this fire pit and my house, in which case. And it was like 5.45. As he tells this story, it not only changes multiple times and is filled with far too many details than necessary, indicating that he has a memory of extremes, but he's rubbing his nose, touching his mouth, fidgeting with a pen,

and then puts his guard back up quickly. All of this indicates that Gregory is experiencing a high level of anxiety. Soon he will show his memory of extremes when he goes from sharing too many details to suddenly leaving something out. I drove the band home, hopped in to my house. I was wearing black boots and jeans and a great t-shirt. And I got to my house and I started getting ready for school. I went by a textbook in my backpack. You know, I was just starting getting ready, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. After this, Gregory's story once again aligns with the one he told earlier.

His mom dropped him off at school and he went through his day like normal until the sixth period. At 1.10, after a fifth period, I met with my friends. We walked us, we walked off campus, go in the back of the woods. It's not really necessary detail, but that is what happened. And I out in my friend's car, and we drove to my house. We picked up some more money. Then we drove to the fire pit again, and we, Sunked more cigarette there, talked.

This is one of my friends, this is the same kid that was suicidal, and I snag out of the night from him, but I just sneak out. I stole my mom's car like I had, like I did Thursday night, and I had driven over to his house, and I had talked to him of himself. And so this is one of the kids, and so we were just talking about life problems and how to deal with them and just all this shit.

Gregory is once again trying to make himself look like a good person, and an honest person by telling on himself, and then bolsters this by including the story about helping his friend. We were shooting the ship at this fireplace and smoking cigarettes and just kind of chilling. And then we went back home, and they dropped me off from that on. Note that Gregory says he basically went back home, along with the super extended and then, followed by a long pause before he answers. He's clearly mentally skipping something,

but he makes a poor attempt at covering it up as it's pretty obvious, especially as there will be several more pauses throughout his story. It's pretty much the same. I noticed my mom's car was there. The lights were on. I walked into the house. Everything was everywhere.

Door busted and all that shit, whatever. I already told you. Went through my house. Looking for my mom. Wasn't anywhere to be found. blah blah. Call the police. Finally, after hours of interrogation,

Gregory begins to divulge some of the truth. At face value, this information might not seem irrelevant to finding Gregory's mother. But Sergeant Pagliari has a suspicion that it just might be more important to the case than anyone realizes. What were you with last night? What's their name?

Brian. How did you get out of the house window? Are your bedroom? Yeah. We're in black boots, jeans. Black jeans, right? Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you, I dumped all of those clothing because they smelled like smell. Okay. So black boots, though, black jeans? Right, or black jeans? It's just jeans. Yeah. Okay.

Or then pink or purple or gray, they're just standard blue. Yeah. Gray T-shirt. Yeah. The detective appears to be trying to mirror Gregory's language, which is a pretty common tactic in rapport building. Mirroring verbal language serves the same purpose. as mirroring nonverbal language. It helps with connection and trust. So now it's you and Dylan. Who else?

Brian. You picked up Brian in the Dillana also? Yes. Mom's name, man. It was those three. It was us three. Us, you three. Yeah.

You drank. Where are you drinking? Alcohol. What type? Like a beer, liquor. Tequila? Tequila. Who brought the tequila to the party?

Dylan. Tequila. Smoking what? Cigarettes. Is there cigarettes? Yes. And these guys, Dylan and Brian dropped you off today. Great.

At your house. Well, they, I told you they dropped me off at. Right here. Win Dixie? Or no, where's the, where the hell are you talking about? Where's that place? This is high banks. So they dropped me off here.

I walked the rest of the distance. So it's not possible that Dylan and Brian came to your house. After they dropped you off, stole your shit and killed Vermont. Is that possible? Why, she even drive past me? Okay. Well, I have to ask because, again, I'm trying to figure out what they'll up with your life. No, they're all, they're definitely accounted for because I saw them throughout the school day.

And so if this whatever happened to my mom, I don't even know what the fuck happened. But whatever happened to my mom, it happened during the school day, obviously, because when I got home, she wasn't there and the house was a ramped back. So obviously something, whatever. Gregory repeats the word obviously, which is a way to push his narrative. Remember, the more you repeat something, the more likely others are to believe it. So none of that that's missing, you get in take to go trade for drugs or anything else? No.

Okay. Did your friends? No. Okay. Now, you understand that, hopefully you understand, that this could have been flushed out hours ago. Yeah. So I want to give you some credibility. I mean, what's like I got to do with you said you want your sad answers?

This isn't any answers for me. I mean, this is you going out being a teenager, staying your mom's car, and doing some shit. I thought you were going to tell me that you know who, what happened to your mother? Like, somebody killed your mom? I don't know what happened. I already told you.

I'm giving you my alibi. So you know what I didn't fall off my mom. Stating that he's given his alibi is certainly odd, and rather than actually denying being involved, Gregory seems to be fixated on his story. Okay. Are you not getting hostile to me or I'm here to help you? Yeah, no, but you, I'm not trying to get hostile. It's just the fact that, well, you have to understand that you could have told me this before, but now,

did this guy Joe punch you in the face yesterday? Is that legit? Yeah, it is. This is the first time we see Gregory get really flustered, though we've seen him do a lot of self-soothing throughout. Perhaps he's realizing he's still not out of the woods, but little does he know this interview was not going to go the way he's. hoped. Okay. So Brian saw the guy punch you in his face. Does Dylan see this guy punch you in his face? No, he wasn't there. He wasn't there. But Brian's going to vouch for you. Yeah. Okay. Just making sure, because, again, I want to, if you can't understand that I'm taking some of the things that you say with a grain of salt. Making Gregory think that his friends might not corroborate his story and planting a seat of doubt that his friends will give a different story, the detective is using the prisoner's dilemma to try to get him to be honest.

Then, no, I don't understand. Okay. But, yeah. So neither one of them know that my mom is missing. Sergeant Pagliari gives Gregory one last chance to tell the truth before they verify his story with evidence. I want you to look at me real quick, because I'm going to tell you. I want you to understand the magnitude of it. Okay. So earlier in our conversation, I've been very transparent with you. I've told you some of our tactics and things that we're going to do.

I told you that we're going to verify your story, right? Yes. Okay. So one aspect of your story, obviously, is a rundown Brian and Dylan, okay, who you said you were with last night, and here you were with today, okay? Correct. So think carefully about this. Okay. What do you think Dylan or Brian is going to say? Like about me?

Yes. Well, they're probably going to act if they don't know me, or they'll verify everything I've said. Why would they act that they don't know you? They don't want to get involved. They're involved in what? Like, involved. with my problems, I guess? I don't know. What the matter is, yeah, if you go around them down, whenever you do that,

ever do it? Like right now we're doing it. Oh, you are? Yeah. Yeah, they'll never find my story. They're going to do what? No, clarify what I'm saying. Which is that you have nothing to do with the murder of your mother? My mom was murdered? What do you think?

I don't know. I didn't think she was murdered. While Gregory continues to sit in the hot seat, two other detectives sit down with his friend Dylan Sigloric. Little do they know Dylan is about to break their case wide open. What's going on, man? Not much. How are you today? I'm Steve Wheeler. I'm a detective with the sheriff's office. Detective Mike Cox. How are you?

Pretty all right. How you doing? Mind if we have them over your time? Okay. You already have an idea of what you're doing? Anybody contact you about anything? No. Okay. Have you talked to Greg today? I saw him at school.

How good friends are you guys? I mean, I talked to him, but we're not, like, super, super close. Okay. What was he super close with? I don't really know. I don't talk to him that much to really find out. I only have, like, two close friends myself. Okay.

Who are your close friends? There's Brian. He's a really good friend of mine. And, yeah, really, Brian. He's, like, the only person I'd talk to. What can do the other basis? What's his last name? Torres.

Torres? D-O-R-R-A-S. Do you know another kid named Joey? Joe, Joey, Jr., or something like that? Then maybe friends with Greg. No. I mean, I don't know people by names, really. So, like, I might have seen them, but I don't know. While this isn't definitive proof of whether or not Gregory's story so far has been true, there seems to be some discrepancies in the statements given by both of the boys. Dylan doesn't

know who Joel is, and maybe it's because there's an entirely different reason that Gregory has scratches on his face. Not only that, but he also seems to be downplaying his relationship with Gregory. According to Gregory, he had saved Dylan from taking his own life. It seems strange that Dylan wouldn't consider Gregory a close friend after such an incident. Have you ever gone to Greg's house? Yeah, I'm in a Greg's house. Okay. One more, do you think the last time I was you were over there?

I mean, probably the last time I worked with him, right? Yeah, last time I worked with him. So, like, Saturday. Okay, so recent. Like, is he okay, though? So Greg's fine. That's fine. Everybody's fine except his mom.

That's the problem is his wife. his mom is gone. We don't know what she had. We have no idea where this lady is at. We have zero idea where this lady is that. And that's why we're here talking to you because we know you're friends with Greg. Yeah, I was just, I'm worried for him. Yeah.

Greg's fine. I mean, he looks like he got no fight. He said he got no fight that at school, which is why we were trying to figure out what we're going out there because it's going with all the leaves that we possibly can. For now, Dylan is aware that he needs to watch everything he says, but later on, he won't be so careful. As soon as he mistakenly thinks the cameras aren't rolling, he will make some truly shocking statements without realizing he's being recorded.

She's missing today? Yes. She's missing today. She's missing right now. And they have no idea when this lady went. There's some unusual circumstances around it that we just, it's abnormal. Enough abnormally to get a bunch of detectives out here. Yeah.

We were both at home and they called us and said, With some general information gathered from Dylan, the detective start verifying his story. The only time you saw Greg that it was in the morning and in the afternoon at lunch and you haven't seen him since? I didn't really see him now. What do you mean you didn't really see him? Like I didn't face-to-face kind of thing. So I'm walking. When?

After lunch and then before I left. Okay, but not out of school. No. And Greg never left early and got a ride with you guys? Is it all? No. I was with Brian. It's clear that Dylan and Brian are incredibly close and seemingly spent the day together.

Wanting to make sure that they have every angle on this story, detectives are sent to question Brian as well. How you doing, sir? Are you, Brian? Shut up. Yeah. Hey, Brian, I'm Detective Wheeler. This is Detective Johnson. Yeah.

We need to talk to you. So if you're going to talk to you? Here, let me step out real quick. Sorry, you just woke me up. Sorry, man. Here's the deal, man. We need to talk to you about. that burglary happened over at Greg's house today.

You know anything about it? He messaged me that something happened, that's all I've heard, though. Yeah. Did you see Greg today? That's cool. What time? From last night I saw him was lunch. Did you see him after lunch?

What? Did you see him after lunch? No, I was in class. That's really one of the last time just saw, so. So far, it seems like Brian and Dylan's stories are adding up. However, it doesn't take long before Dylan makes a mistake. Did you ever know Greg to have a, I don't know what? describe this a mean streak per se in him you ever seen him get angry like anger shoes angry yeah any

indication that he has it in him is he have a lot of anger built up does he have a lot of animosity against anything or anyone like had hate for but he has anger yeah what's he have anger about just he's like anyone something little just make him anger out of nowhere do you ever see him snap no i've never seen How do you know he has anger? Because I've just seen him angry, like, about stuff. What kind of things? I didn't really ask about it. It's not really my thing to know.

How did he act when he was angry? He didn't mean. Does he shut down? Does he get fired up? Does he shut down? He just doesn't want to talk to anyone when he gets angry. Has he given you anything to hold of his from that house? Last week, you let me borrow a bow if you want that.

What did you borrow it for? I thought it was cool. I actually don't even know how to shoot it. So what you borrowed it for? I thought it would just be cool to have in your room? Yeah, I collect, like, stuff like that. Like, I have a knife that's also a way of later. Just interesting stuff. What would you're going to do with the bow?

Look at it? Yeah, in lunch. You were going to shoot it at all? I don't know. Is there arrows with it? No. It was just the bow. I had no idea how to shoot it.

That kind of seems odd, though. Most thing I've ever shot at it. as a beauty gun to the owners. This is an immediate red flag for the detectives. Gregory had listed his bow as one of the items that were stolen from his house. If Dylan has possession of the bow, that means either he stole it or Gregory lied to the sergeant. I'll ask you a couple more things. I swear to confirm the information you're about to give me his true, correct that's your knowledge.

Okay. You and Greg left schools together together, come back. You didn't walk off campus today? I walked up campus. Did Greg walk with you? I walked with Brian. You walked with Brian. And where did you walk to?

The Brian's truck. Okay. Is what? Tracker. It's tracking. I went here. And what did you do when you got in here? I got him clothes.

Okay. Me and Brian grew around and I went to work. Although Dylan is claiming that he's telling the truth, his story is quickly starting to contradict Brian's. So I picked up Greg this morning, right? After I picked up Dylan, and then there's morning times I really don't talk to them. I just pick them up and bring him to school because I'm tired. I'm not a morning person at all. And then I went to school, went through my classes, like usual.

Lunchtime, I saw them again. And then after lunch, that's really like one of the last time to saw them. What time's the time you leave school? Sometimes she goes through seventh, sometimes she doesn't. What time did you leave school? A time that I'd leave? Brian repeats the question here to give himself some time to think about his answer. He will repeat part of the question again in a moment,

making you wonder why he needs to think about this answer when it should be easy to remember. I left after fifth period. Who would you take with you? With me, it was me and Dylan. And Greg, but I took him home. I took him back to his house. As the detectives continue to dig for the truth,

Dylan eventually cracks. He walked off campus. We went to his house. He gave me his stuff to hold. What stuff? I can show you. No, time. Tell us what it is.

He gave me his gaming laptop. His gaming pieces. he gave me his bow that I borrowed. Today? He gave you his personal computer too. And the bow. And the bow. Why did he give you? So it's a laptop, a gaming laptop, a PC, and a bow? It's a gaming PC.

Okay. Gaming PC, a bow, and what else? Don't know what else on it. What's that? What did he give him to you a hold? Did he tell you? He said he was in trouble, so he gave me it. And I drove off, I came here. I put it in my closet, and I went to work.

after he gave me the stuff, I went to work. I didn't do anything else. I have a job to do. Why did he say he was giving you that stuff? What kind of troubles he in? I don't know what kind of trouble is he in. But got there in the house looked really torn up. So he told me to take this stuff.

I mean, I get what it was looking like. So you got to the house with Greg and Brian. He used to the driver. Did Brian get out? Did you all go inside the house? We got to the door. He ran in. I looked inside. I could see it all messed up. He ran out, gave me that, gave me the bow.

He threw a couple of the things that we ended up just throwing out. And then I came back here. What did you throw up? We threw out like a computer and a printer and just like small stuff like that. Threw it out where? We just found a random dumpster and threw it in there. Where is this random dumpster? The Wind Dixie parking lot.

With this confession from Dylan, all of the supposedly stolen items mentioned by Gregory are now accounted for. As detectives try to find out what kind of trouble Gregory might have been in, Dylan makes a shocking and disturbing confession. I'm sorry for lying. I know. But now is the time to get it all out, all of it. So tell us what happened.

I mean, he's done this much. He's giving you personal items view to hide, or to hold. That's not suspicious to you, and it's not suspicious to you that you guys... Hold on. No one knows. He knows. Yeah. Tell us. It's okay, man.

It's not on you. Pretty much for having. Me and Brian, you drive in the school tomorrow. And he called me and Brian. Hey, something big happened. He wouldn't say it on the phone. So me and him had to go get him. Then he gets in the car.

And he says, I did it. I really did it. I killed my mother. So we drove to school. He did the entire day. We left. early and we get back to the house. He said, take this. Greg did say something happened to his mother. It was kind of fuzzy because he seemed like he was kind of shucking up. So he said something

happened and like I said, he was really shook him. So he told me something about how his house is messed up. So we went over there and he asked if I could take some of his stuff, right? He said he needed to get rid of some of the stuff in his house. So we go in there and we grab some of the stuff out of his house. So you did go in a house? Yes. And we put it in the tracker. And he told us what needed to be like kept and what need to be thrown away.

So we stopped and we threw away like you said, the printer, the tube box. Yeah. Where else did we stop? The church right up there in high banks. What happened at the church, buddy? Greg had a key put one of the, like a trunk. He put that in the water. What was in the trunk, buddy?

A whole bunch of random stuff. like just junk you see like a garage shell. After hours of investigation, interrogation, and turmoil, detectives finally are getting to the truth. Despite having this horrid information, there's still so much they need to know. But Brian is still reluctant to admit one crucial detail. What was said?

What did Greg tell you? Don't cover up for Greg. I'm not trying to cover for Greg. If he said it, then he said it, and then, you know, you do what you did, and that can be explained. But don't sit here and just, continue to lie to us, all right? Okay.

You and Gregor, but there's more than one person here. It's not just you. Remember that. By stating there's more than one person here, the detective is clearly using the prisoner's dilemma with Brian. There's two other parties involved. It's not just you, okay? So it's not like we came here blind looking for answers.

Yeah, I can tell that by how you guys already know and all that. Just tell us what he said. He said that he's telling me the legal argument, but not really argument, but he told me that like, it's hard to say. It's honestly. Just said. Just said. We've probably already heard it.

He said that he killed his mother and I didn't really believe it. Okay. All right. With both boys having claimed that Gregory killed his mother, the detectives are inclined to believe that they're telling the truth. Although Brian is claiming that he didn't believe Gregory's claims, it's hard to imagine that he wouldn't get suspicious after helping stage the crime scene. No matter what Brian or Dylan want to believe,

they helped their friend cover up the brutal and shocking murder of his own mother. As the detectives prepare to inform Sergeant Pagliari about what they've learned, one of them notices that Dylan isn't doing too well. Yeah, are you okay? I know your history. I just want to make sure that you're not thinking about harming yourself or anything. Dylan, are you okay? I know it's tough.

You don't feel anything for it. You don't feel anything for what? What do you mean you don't feel anything for it? There's like a part of me that knows I shouldn't feel bad, but I can't feel anything for it. Hey, what I do? Listen, just do what you're doing, sitting here talking to me, okay? I can understand. You're probably not feeling anything because you haven't really processed it yet.

You haven't processed what happened. While one detective comforts Dylan, the other is quick to get Sergeant Pagliari on the phone and let him know what they've discovered. Armed with this new information, Pagliari sits down for one final confrontation with Gregory. But even with everything they know, none of them could have been prepared for what exactly Gregory would say. Do you think, and I'm going to ask you this, I've asked just before. Okay, because in your hearts and parts, looking at me face-to-face, are you a man of integrity?

Do you know what that is? I do know what it is. Okay. Are you a person of integrity? I don't think I have the best character. I think I have character flaws. But on the up and up, I'm usually, I try to be as honest as possible. And when I'm not, it's because I'm being selfish.

I can admit that. Okay. I tend to be selfish. And that's the problem I have. But, okay. Yeah. Well, here's what I want you. I'm going to do this.

I'm going to look at my eyes. Okay. Look like this. And I'm going to ask you, did you kill your mother, take things from your house, distributing amongst your friends, come in here today,

and lie to my face, and say that you didn't do that? No. No what? I didn't do that. You didn't kill your mother. No. Okay.

Notice Gregory's complete stillness. He's working as hard as possible to lie. He's making constant intense eye content. and then has no reaction to the accusation. An innocent person would be furious or completely shocked at being accused, angry their friends turned on them. It would show, but from Gregory, we see, almost nothing. All right.

So, sit back down. I don't believe you. Why? Well, the good news about it is that all those things that were missing from your house, we found them. Where? You tell me, I give you a clue. It's one of your buddies.

Are you saying my friends robbed my house? Is that what you took out of this? Is that I'm saying that your friend's great. robbed your house. The same friends, who, by the way, were at school all day and who dropped you off. I'll refer to you a little map here, but remember this. They dropped you right here on high banks, and whenever hell this road is, and I asked you earlier, is it possible that your two friends could have went to your home's house and killed your mom and taken those things? And I did. You said, that's impossible because they would have been driven past you,

and then what you would have solved. The time is up, Greg. The time is up. We found the stuff. Okay. Okay. Your buddies turn us on to it. Now, you need to tell me what happened. Because they've already told me what happened. Told my pals what happened. So you need to come to Jesus. You're a religious man. You've prayed with your mom.

You need to tell me what happened. So what did they tell you? I'm not telling you what they told me because I don't have to tell you what they told me. You tell me what happened. I already told you what happened. Tell me you didn't tell your mother. I didn't. Who killed your mother?

I have zero clue. Who took the shit in your house? Well, you just told me. Apparently, it's my friends. And when did they think they did that? I have zero fucking clue. Do you honestly believe the things that are coming out of your mouth? Yeah.

So when your buddy says that you told him, you killed your mother, he's lying. After being backed into a corner, Gregory remains silent for quite a while before something snaps inside him and divulges one of the most chilling confessions we've ever heard. All right, I'll tell you what happened. All right. So I got home. I got an argument with my mom. She slapped me across the face.

She began to hit me. She started beating me. I didn't like it. So I strangled her to death. I put her in a wheelbarrel. I put her in my car. I took the car. I had a mental breakdown where I was committed to three times.

As he talks, Gregory adds in, I almost had a mental breakdown and thought about taking his own life, even as he's in the middle of admitting to killing his mom. He still wants to appear to be the victim. This is very classic narcissistic thinking and behavior. I drove around Daytona. I dropped the wheelbarrel in some random-ass location, and I drove back to the church. I began to dig a hole. I dig a hole right under the fire pit. I took a pretty deep hole, pretty deep, you know, deep enough to put a value in, all right? All this time, my mom's decomposing body, I dragged it from my car to the fire pit, in which case, I tried to cut the wedding ring off her finger because I wanted to pawn it, but I couldn't because I didn't have a nice, strong enough to cut bones. Oh, well, whatever. whatever. Anyways, so I dug that hole, threw a body in there, filled the back end, made it look on nice and natural, dumped my clothes, and then I went home, and I caught a ride to school with my friends, and yeah. And yeah, what about the part that you stage a crime scene? Oh, yeah, I forgot about that part. Oh, so in the middle of the night, I realized that, hey, my mom just up and disappears. That's not going to make any sense. So I decided to make it look like a boxed strawberry.

So I just went to my house and I just threw shit everywhere. Which looks pretty convincing. And, yeah. And, yeah, again, not what I want to hear. Why did you drag your two buddies into this and give them the stolen shit? Because I needed to get rid of it. Gregory's complete lack of remorse is disturbing, to say the least. And it only gets more horrifying as he doubles down.

I think you have to realize that with my mom beating up and hitting on me, it wasn't like me being like, ah, I've waited ages for this. And then I kill her. No, this was extremely out of impulse out of me getting beaten this. I just was like, you know, I'm done with it. So I grabbed her and I strangled her. So it was out of complete impulse, which doesn't make any better. But one of the matter is I was shaken up, obviously. So your mother talked. to your father on the phone. When did you strangle your mother? I don't know. 12.30? Where was she at when you did it? What? Where was she?

In the room? Which room? Her room? Sleeping? No, she woke up. She woke up after you had your hands around her throat? No, she woke up when I entered her room. And what happened then?

She said, what are you doing? What did you say? I said, listen, you don't understand that. I was not. The stuff that I was on my face right now was a lot worse, and I wasn't feeling good, and I said, why did you have to hit me? I said, you said that you wouldn't do that again,

but you did it anyways, why you took to do that? And she's like, well, I, you know, whatever, blah, blah, blah. Stop. Yeah. Whatever blah, blah, blah, bullshit we covered that. I don't want to hear what she said. She was like, well, you were being a dick. And I, is that really important?

Wait it out. Oh, yeah, it's important. I want you to tell me. I know. Does that really warrant? Not important. Does that really warrant? I'm not,

being a dick. I already explained you the conversation that I had with her, right? It's still about my bio grade. It's still about all that shit, right? And it's the same conversation I had with her. But it's, yeah, it's the same conversation. It's just,

like I said, escalated the screaming and yelling, and then she started hitting me. And I did not hit back. I did not punch her back. Because, like I said, I wouldn't do that. Gregory is making a lot of referral statements by saying, like I said, over and over.

He's trying to find a way to maintain his story wasn't complete lies by pointing out the pieces of truth, he said before. Until I realized that if I let her keep on beating me around and basically letting her just do whatever she wanted, that eventually it means they're going to be me or her. And so I made a decision. According to Gregory, his mother's murder was a preemptive self-defeated. offense, but that doesn't justify such a horrifying and unforgivable crime. He continues to share more grisly details of the cold-blooded attack. Put your hands around her neck. Is she facing you when you did it? Yeah. You extend your arms and put your hands around her throat. Yes. And squeezed. Yeah. What did she do? I mean, what can you do in that situation? You tell me what

she was doing. Well, I first her under the ground and I was strangling her and she shut. And she I mean, she was trying. She was quanted my arm. She was whatever. I mean, you can probably see on my fucking hand where in this crease here, I was putting so much stress on it. Because I was over. I was over it.

I realized that it was either her, getting so fucking angry with me one day, that she just takes out of kitchen knife and stabs me, or it was me being so fucking with her that I strangler to death. And so I took the line at her because I don't plan on. I don't plan on. I didn't want her to kill me on it. I didn't think that was fitting.

I wouldn't have worked out. So I just took action and said. Gregory seems to really struggle to come up with an explanation here. I didn't think that was fitting is particularly odd phrasing in the middle of a confession. Though he admitted he killed her, he's trying his hardest to make itself defense with a roundabout justification. Though it sounds completely unbelievable, it's likely he's probably actually convinced himself of this. You force her to the floor, and you choke the life out of her. How'd that make you feel?

I felt nothing. How long did it take? 30 minutes. You choked your mother on the floor to death for 30 minutes. Yeah. How did you know she was dead? Okay. Well, let me rephrase this.

I choked her to death, and I thought she was dead, and I went to go get the whale barrel, and then she was moving, so I had to get back on top of her and finish the job. And then once she wasn't resisting when I was dragging her dead body across the floor. I knew she was dead. Gregory continues with his crude and detached tone as he describes how he disposed of his mother's body. Well, I, listen, dead bodies are heavy. They're a pain in the ass to carry. I was like,

all right, well, this is easy. Simple environment to carry, right? I'll pick her up, whatever, bring her to the car, throw her in there. Now, this is heavy. So I got the wheelbarrow. I'd ride her out to the stairs, and then I positioned the wheel of barrel in the way so I could basically just like muscle her body into the wheelbarrel just perfect enough to where I could get her into the car actually into the wheelbarrel without having to you know whatever break my bag okay so you take her to the car

where do you put her in the minivan I just showed her in there in the very back yeah I went on the truck just kind of I put two belts around her legs and then I dragged her into the car two belts around her legs and dragged her legs and dragged Yeah, I tied her into the core. Yeah, I tied two bolts. I had like a belt around her ankle and the belts are on her ankle,

and then I put them together and I used it as I have, like a crutch. So you were in the van and just dragged her, like, from inside the van and dragged her from the wheelbarrow into the back of the van. Yeah, it was a bit of a dude, but yeah, I did it. As Gregory describes his next steps, we get a fascinating glimpse into the twisted mind of a teenage murderer. Okay. So you pull her into the back of the car, and then where do you go?

Well, I threw a little girl in there, and I was like, and I got the shovel, and I was like, okay, let's do this, whatever, it's easy. Yeah, no. Then I had a mental breakdown. I was like, holy shit. Blah, blah, blah, whatever. What's that mean? Fill it in.

Like, you know, whatever. Holy shit, what am I doing? I need never, whatever. Just ruin my future, blah, blah, blah, whatever. The repeated blah, blah, blah, blah statements show the fascinating but disturbing dichotomy of Gregory presents as intelligent as well as very childish. This is the hallmark of most teens, but it's extremely chilling when tied to discussing murder. Basically, I was basically reasoning with myself, do I deserve to live? And I realized that I did the thing I did out of self-defense.

I mean, sure, she wasn't hitting me in the moment, but it would have eventually just gotten worse and worse and worse. It's always gone worse and worse over the years. But it was just a matter of time. I was on the highway. I was driving, and then I realized, well, I had a lot of the thoughts going through my head. My original thought was, oh, well,

you know, what if I just dumped my mom's body in some random last location with a wheelbarrow, and then I just go on the run, just go on the run, right? And then I realized where the fuck would I go. I mean, I had my sister's house in Michigan. Yeah, but she just turned me into the cops. And whatever, I'm not going to get out of the country and whatever, how many hours they find her body.

So it's not worth it. And I was like, well, I could just go into oncoming traffic. I mean, it's really busy in this area for some reason. I could just move my car into oncoming traffic and myself. And I was like, no, it's a pussy-ass way to go. I'm not going to do that, right? So I just decided, well, okay, well, I guess we're just back at square one. So I'm going to go back to where I started.

Gregory continues to narrate the account, and he doesn't hesitate to share the disgusting details about what he did to his mother's body. I drove the body back to the church, and the whole realized that my phone flashlight, is not going to be enough, go back to the house, get a new flashlight. Then this is, by the way, this is me, this is the, when I'm talking about me going back to my house to get money, it's, it's just me trying to make excuses for my phone being in certain places. I should have just trashed my phone like I did with my mom's, but I didn't really want to do that because I also listen to music. I whatever, I was going to get caught anyway, so it's no point. And so I get a couple candles, get flashlights, I get whatever, and I get the aerial let up. Dig, dig, dig, realize that the body smells terrible. It sounds like, Jesus of Christ, you're still a dead body?

Oh, I smell a dead body? Yeah, they smell like... Casually listening to music while digging a grave and be so comfortable discussing the smell of his mother's dead body show his complete lack of empathy beyond the remorselessness he's displayed so far. So I was like, okay, you get something coming up. So I went to my house, I got kind of bleach.

And I was like, okay, when I get the body in there, I'll forth a bit of a bun and make it smell sterile before I got rid of the back of it with there. I was like, that seems like a pretty good plan, whatever. There's been another shift in Gregory's speech, patterns. As soon as he decided to confess, he's now talking a lot faster. This is most likely his normal way of talking, as before he was concentrating on being deceptive. So, I never picked the hole. It's like, what, 4.30? And I thought, all right, so we dump the body and then we

fill back up, and then 5.30 we go back. So we, we, myself. Okay, so you're talking about we being too, yourself, nobody else is there. This is just you. Yes, me. So, anyways, done with the hole so kicked the body in the hole but it doesn't fit so I had to kind of crammer in there

I don't know if I broke any bones whatever pour the bleach on her put the dirt over and I mean when you go out there you'll see it it looks perfectly natural

doesn't look like there's any anything and you've missed the hole what you do well it was a fire pit so I literally just threw the dirt back on it moves her rocks around and looks perfectly fine.

So she's in the fire pit, or under the fire pit. Yeah. Okay. And yet another shocking twist. Gail's body wasn't the only thing Gregory hit in the woods that night. What else is in the woods? What else was in there? The broom I used to sweep the drag marks away.

Okay. Because when you're dragging the body, I said, I trashed the wheelbar on all heels, which is a dumbass move, because I still needed to get the body out from the trunk of my car. and bring it down to this area, right? But I realized whatever, blah, blah, blah, dumb, dumb. So if I hadn't wasted maybe an hour and a half, I probably would have gotten away with it.

But I did waste an hour and a half because I needed to come in terms of what I did. Anyways, I dragged her body with the two belts I had tied to her ankles. I dragged it all with the fire pit. And, you know, like when you're dragging it, body on leaves and palm fronds and whatnot, that collects quite a lot of shit.

to be frank. So is there anything else? I mean, he said, there's a shovel in the woods, a broom in the woods. How about any of the stolen

sh- for the stuff that you took from the old? There's more, yeah, there's stolen shit. There's nothing big. It's like all the small shit.

And I just kind of chucked in there because no one else wanted it and I needed to get rid of it. So there's a cache of stolen shit in the lake behind the fire pit, but it's probably all whatever. By the way, in the woods by the fire pit,

I don't know. I couldn't point out to you exactly. But the, there is two laptops and the 30 caliber gun right behind the fire pit in the woods. And obviously, you know what the rest of stuff is. I do. Go back to, before you left your house with your mother's body in the van, you started staging the crime scene.

Is that right? You said you took someone's stolen out? Yeah. But not stolen. You took the, what did you take out of the house first? And then why your mother's body was in the van. Well, I just kind of figured, like, well, I need to get everything out. I was like, well, not everything, but like, you know, I was like, how can I make this look legit?

I was like, I can't just like make my mom disappear and then like head to school and be like, oh, everything's okay. I'm like that's not going to work. So I need to make it look like something happens, like a bunch dropy or something. And you got to admit, I don't know if you saw the house. Do you see the house? I haven't gone to side yet, though. I need to work. It looks quite nice.

Okay. It looks quite legit. That's weird. Why is there, all this crap up here spilled? There's a broken glass here. Oh, yeah. It looked so legit. That's why Gregory immediately ended up in the interrogation room confessing right now.

Basically, I just... I grabbed everything of value, and I kind of just threw in the van. And, yeah. As Sergeant Pagliari works to understand the rest of this disturbing story, Gregory takes every opportunity to flaunt his horrendous ego. Now, some of the stuff you gave to your friends, when did you give some of your... that's your friend after school after school yeah i needed there wasn't any time i was planning what i was

going to plan to do is i was going to drive up to the sunrail and leave my mom's car there and dump the bike somewhere and make it look like that she went to orlando and then she just got whatever and i think actually if i hadn't made the box robbery and i just kind of drove the car up there and then lost the bike and gotten picked up with my by my friends and we kind of like just kept hushush about it and uh i killed my mom and put her under the fire pit, you could probably never caught me because you'd probably think that she got mugged in Orlando and died, and that probably would have made a lot more sense. But I didn't think it through it because I was in full of thinking and I was doing everything on a wind. So if I had more time to take it through, I probably would have done her things, but that's whatever.

Okay. So you went to school, though? Oh, yeah. How did you get to school? Brian and Bill picked me up in front of my house. I was wearing jeans covered in dirt as well as boots covered in dirt. You'll find those in the woods with the broom and the shovel. But I was wearing a shirt.

I just grabbed her in a shirt and some soap and a washcloth. And then when I got to school, I wiped all the dirt off me, the excess blood that was on my face from my mom hitting me. And I'll clean myself up. And then I went to school. And I think nothing happens. So then you go to school, like nothing's up, right? Let's just go to class for a little while, right? Yeah.

My last day, this is a free man. Might as well, need your way. Okay. So you go ahead of your friends? More or less, I said, thank you. whatever. Well, your two best blood zones you really care about, right? I know they screen me over in the end, so it's whatever.

One person keeps the secret, Greg. Yeah. When did they find out that you killed your mom? When they picked me up, because I was covered in blood, which was my blood, but I was covered in blood and dirt, and I was, one wasn't wearing a shirt and I had soap and they were like, what the f*** happened? And I was like, well, Brian, I called you last night. He's like, yeah, I know.

And I told Dylan. Okay. So then what was their reaction? Apathy? Tell me. scrub, elaborate, they didn't care. They didn't care. They didn't care. They thought you were foolish.

I mean, well, yeah, they thought it was foolish. They told them back to where I did it, which was after school. Yeah. And then after school, you took him to the church. Yeah. And then you just start divvying out shit. Yeah, I said, gave what you want. Knowing that your mother was dead, and you told them take what you want.

And they were good with that? Yeah, that's good. Who took what? I don't know. There's now no denying that Dylan and Brian helped Gregory cover up his mother's murder. and the two were detained while Sergeant Pagliari wraps up Gregory's interrogation. Well, how about the part, I got to say, I was impressed with the kicking of the door. Did you do all that yourself?

Oh, no, I had those to do it. Oh, okay, so again, more things that these guys did. Yeah, right? So tell me about that. Well, I was like, hey, I need help stage in the crime scene. And we're like, okay, we'll help you. So both of them together kicked in the door? Yeah, it was very impressive.

Okay. Do you guys have this on video or anything? Did you like me? No, I wish I had it on video. I think that ain't great, but no, but I'm sure if you dust her footprints on the door, you'll find their shoes. Okay. You'll find it all over the house as well. But then we went to my mom's room, we got the gloves, give them gloves, because they didn't want to get their fingerprints on anything,

even though they already kicked the door open and whatnot. And even though they're already, like, basically helping me do this, whatever. As the interrogation comes to a close, Gregory once again displays his astonishing out. towards his mother's death. So, am I going to go to prison or what? What's up? Well, what's going to happen is I have to obviously let someone from the state attorney's office know about today's events, and then we'll go from there.

So I don't have, there's no endgame as far as what's going to end up happening to you. And your question is, like what, prison or not just? I don't know. But you will be arrested. Yeah, obviously, but like, since I'm a minor, can I even go to prison? Is it like a thing? That I don't know. Again, I'm just the person who gets the facts and presents out. Is that that I thing?

Again, all we're going to do, Detective Jones and I are just here to get the facts of the case. We present our findings to the legal part of things, which that's not me. So since I'm in the police station already, are you ready to handcuffs knowledge as? You probably will be handcuffed at some point. Yeah. No, bro. And then I did act of a century. She's giving a Grammy for that 9-11, or 911 call.

You should give her a listen. It's quite nice. Though Gregory is bragging about his 911 call, it's actually something that gave him away from the beginning. When he was asked where the emergency was, he immediately launched into his story, which is an instant red flag. 911, where's your emergency? I just got home and my house is completely trash. It looks like someone broke in the side door. An innocent person is interested in help, not telling a story.

It's incredible that the detectives can. keep a straight face listening to him. Before officially arresting Gregory, the sergeant has one last question for him. You've taken a little bit of pride in what you do. That's fine. You know what? It is what it is, right? Are you willing to go with us and show us at the church where you put her and everything? Do a little reenactment of what happened? So again, if you're willing to arrive with us, I'll sit here in the backseat of a patrol car. Uniform deputies will come in and handcuff you, of course, and put you back there with me, and then you'll just take us over to the church. And then we'll get out and do a little video reenactment of the scene over there,

and you just kind of go through some things. Tell us what you were thinking. That's all I'm looking to do at this point. You want to do that? I'd be down. You're down? Yeah. Okay.

Let's do it. After arriving at the church, Gregory leads the officers to the burial side. Drop, and then I put my, originally, I put my phone, I did, um, I can find this out here? Well, no, it's not. No, no, me, but, uh, no. Oh, never. There was the wooded...

Did they find the stuff back here? We probably found a few things. Go ahead, what you recall. All right, well, whatever. Did you guys find the gun back here? Did we find a gun back here? It's okay if we did. There's one back there.

Yeah, we did. A rifle? Yeah. Do you guys find the laptops as well? I believe so, sir. All right, sounds good. Okay. So, yeah, whatever.

I set my phone so I get some light, but then I really knew more so I had to go back to my house and get more. But tell me how you dug the hole. Let's talk about that. Okay. Should I want to dug it up? Okay.

All right. And then how did you put your mother's body in the hole? How was she oriented? Would she face up? Is she, uh... Okay, so originally I was going to put her in legs first, and I realized that was a bad idea. Right. So I put her in head first, and then I folded her legs in. You're going to, when you, when you dig her up, whenever you do that, the, you'll find the legs first, which should make it easier for you to pull it out. Okay. How big a hole we're talking about here, Greg? Pretty big. Well, I mean, let's say it's your conference-wise. If you had to put a, you're a math guy. Well, I mean, you guys got rid of the fire pit, but it was a circumference of the fire pit. That's what it, the whole thing was just circumference of the fire pit?

Yeah, and then it kind of combed. Yeah. Did you get tired? Well, yeah, that and I was on the time limit. Okay. All right. Detective Escobar, so you're aware. A great strangled her to death.

Two hands on her neck. Originally started with one, but then I thought two, two is better one. Okay. All right. And that was two on both times. You choked your... Well, I will, yeah. Well, I should take up against the wall.

And if I was on my house, I'd show you. But, uh, it was interesting. is there. No, I just want to know. So against the wall, standing up and then on the floor? Well, I had her up against a wall on the floor.

Against the wall on the floor. Do you get that makes sense? It doesn't make sense. It's hard to make sense. Well, it's her head up against the wall and her body was on the floor? Yeah. Like you had her like pinned in the corner.

I had her in a corner. I had her in a corner of the wall on the floor. Yeah. There goes. It was like a bedroom, right? Master bedroom. Yeah. You can see when you go in there,

the beds tilted. We started on the bed. We struggled off the bed onto the left side. more proceeded to killer. Okay. While Gregory leads the officers through the woods, Brian and Dylan sit together in the back of a nearby patrol car. As the boys talk about their current situation,

seeming not to realize they're being recorded, it becomes very clear that they don't understand the consequences they'll soon be facing. I told the entire thing because they knew it already. Dude, I haven't been in cuffs all night, and then the lady shows up and she puts me cuffs there. But you were in cuffs? Yeah.

Dude, they showed up and I was okay. And then like, okay, wait, change for you? cost. They transported me without a cop. I'm like, wait, so like Dylan Southerly was like, no, they're with our other detectives. It was like, shit. He's my fire at the police station. So, they call my father. Oh, no. Yeah, I call my father.

My father knows that I'm involved in this. I'm going to get fired out when I get home, and I'm not going to get a birthday or Christmas or anything. I'm going to be grounded for the next 10 years and this owned by my entire family. Dude, I'm not even

getting the word. Come on. Someone's about to get fired. Dude, no, we had that job. Oh, man. We're making 15 an hour. Come on. Guys, this is important. Yeah, it was 15 an hour.

Wait, are we not able to anymore? I'd be dumb, but... What, don't are we going over there? Only did the willpower stay up so long. Oh, how it's working. You have to be there at 11 o'clock till around 7 o'clock. Yeah, but it's 8 times 15. It's 140.

Each. It seems that the concept of serving jail time for their crimes doesn't even cross the boy's minds. Is this just a sign of their immaturity, or do the two really feel that they haven't committed a crime by helping Greg cover up his mother's murder? Is that Greg? That's not Greg. That guy's too tall and skinny. No, it's Greg. Look at his limb.

Yeah, he has to point out where the body is. That's Greg. That's Greg. Mine. No. I know. He's not even mine. Like, honestly.

Look at what mess with my mind. Like, I'll do a lot of things for a friend. I was under the impression I was taking some property. I got some speakers out of it. I was enjoying those tonight. I was kind of drunk. He should ask. The complete lack of accountability from Dylan and Brian is appalling.

However, their utter absence of remorse only becomes more apparent when they bizarrely decide to sing Alien Boy by Oliver Tree. I was saying they're singing Bruno Mars and all that, just like blasting the speakers. I had them all hooked up and it looked nice in my room. I fell down to her. I was listening to that show. Three doors down so you can ignore it. I'll hunt you down like a Tyrannosaurus.

Eventually all three boys are transported back to the police station. After a hectic night of processing, Gregory, Dylan, and Brian are reunited in the back of a patrol car and transported to the Department of Juvenile Justice, where it's very clear they have no idea they're being recorded. Because, like, I was asking for a bottle of water so much. The one that he was, like, the water's in that fountain right there. And I'm just like, I'm not drinking out of that. Like, I'm just going to get a straight from drinking from that water fountain. I know.

That's just. You have handcuffs in style? Were they bringing your mind you? In front. Okay. I was going to say, how the hell are you going to do that? You don't have to do some, like, trapeach. Oh, no, no.

When I had to, like, flush the toilet, I literally had to, like, kick the button pretty much. Yeah, I need to be quiet for one second. All right. One delta six, five central. 125. Three juvenile males in route to DJJ. Starting mileage is 5-8-1. All right, you guys can go ahead and talk to you.

Two. Oh, I was not sitting down on that toilet. It was, like, steel, and there's white stuff all over the toilet. I'm just like, oh, pass up, Matt. My dad, dude? Why are my dad there? What? My family is in here.

I guess they just have done me already. You're Brian? What? Yeah, I'm Brian. No, they have a lawyer. They're with a lawyer with you. Oh, my family. me.

Yeah. I guess I'm not getting, I'm going to get disowned anyway. The lawyers too get me disown. The more time the three boys spend reunited, the less remorse they seem to have. I was arrested on my grandma's birthday. Last night. Last night was my grandma's birthday. I got serious.

I had a birthday first. I'm doing that. I need this to help. Oh my God. Cat's going to kill me. She freaked out when I didn't answer her for 30 minutes. She had everyone she knew blow off my phone, and she called me like 30 times and texted me about 100 times. Instead of being worried about what Cat will think of him after she learns about the horrible things he's done,

Brian only cares about her being mad at him for not responding to her texts. This just showcases the utter lack of understanding from the boys. I'm ready to die. It gets slapped about 30 times when I get back to school. You mean you were going to move back to campus? I had online work I had to do. I'm worried about school still graduating, you know. Yeah, Tom. What?

In 11 and 12 days, right. It's my senior year. I was supposed to graduate this year. For the first time, it seems as though the boys may be starting to realize that their disturbing actions will have long-term. consequences. School, friends, and life as these boys know it, will now be changed forever. Not long after arriving at the juvenile center, Brian's family posted his $100,000 bond. In the three and a half years prior to their court date, Brian finished high school, started college and was employed. On the other hand, Dylan wasn't offered a bond for 309 days, as the court was concerned that his history of mental health issues may lead him to hurt himself when he finally was

given a bond. It was $200,000, meaning there was essentially no way for him to post his bail. For his part in the crime, Dylan was sentenced to 828 days in jail, followed by 10 years of probation. Despite both boys having been charged with accessory after the fact to second-degree murder, Brian was given a different sentence. At his hearing, Gale's sister spoke on the pain their family had suffered as a result of the actions taken by Gregory, Dylan, and Brian. In response, Brian said that he was sorry the tragic killing had happened, but that he was simply naive at the time and didn't take Gregory's murderous claim seriously. Even at his sentencing, it seemed that Brian was wholly unwilling to take full accountability for his actions. In the end, he was sentenced to 14 years

of probation, with the first 364 days of that term being served in the Volusia County Jail. According to Volusia County Sheriff Mike Chitwood, Gregory Ramos is one of the top three sociopaths he's ever come in contact with, and it's easy to see why. For the brutal slaying of his mother, Gregory was charged as an adult and was sentenced to 45 years in prison. While his sentence can be reviewed again in 25 years, Gregory will serve a lifetime probation no matter what.