FACTORALY - E73 HORNS

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

The horn is synonymous with celebration. Whether it's for sounding the appearance of brave Vikings or drinking a toast to their return, horns get everywhere. From Egyptian gods to Toad of Toad Hall, the horn is a symbol of knowledge and reckless speed! Dive into this horn of plenty - it gets pretty noisy, though. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello Bruce. Hi Simon. How are you today? I'm feeling rather good actually, how are you? I'm feeling okay thank you. Jolly good. And hello to everyone who is listening. Hello. So what are the listeners currently listening to, Bruce? Who are we? What is this? What's it all about, Alfie? So they're actually listening to a podcast. Are they? It's called Factorily. I've heard of that. So Bruce and I are two voiceover artists. And when we're not using our voices for work, we use them for doing this. We're nerds. We love random facts. We love interesting trivia. And each week we pick a subject. Bruce goes away and researches. I go away and research. We come back together and we merge and we see what we found.

Bizarrely, we hardly ever research the same things. No, we don't. No, we often go off on completely separate tangents. I don't know why that is. Oh, we're just in tune. I instinctively know what you're going to do and therefore I don't do it. Yes. Well, when it comes to horns, I suppose, generally we take a dull subject and make it interesting. Horns are actually reasonably interesting. Yes. Yes, they are. Because the word has several different meanings, I kind of feel like I've researched about five episodes in one here.

Yes. So there's an awful lot of material to draw from. So we've sort of had to narrow it down a little on this one. That's true. Except when they're antlers. When it's a horn, not a horn. When it's an antler. Right. Can you tell us the difference, Bruce? I can, actually. Jolly good.

So horns are like a single protrusion, or sometimes two, that grow on the heads of animals, such as bison and sheep and goats. And they're made of bone core. Right. Which is covered by keratin, which is the same material as your hair and nails are made of. Right, okay, yes. And horns grow continuously throughout an animal's life.

Ah. Antlers fall off. Yes. I mean, they're made mostly of keratin. Yeah. Not so much, but not so so bony if you like yes as as as a horn sure um and antlers generally are sort of seasonal okay please see our previous episode on reindeer oh yes yes so horns just keep on growing and growing and growing they're not like tusks either so there's a difference between tusks antlers horns so tusks are teeth yes that's right yes and they're made of ivory yes that's right um horns i believe you can you can tell the age of a horn by counting

its rings much like you can with a tree wow because they sort of grow layer after layer with each season so yes each year well they sort of grow throughout the year the warmer seasons they grow faster the colder seasons they grow slower and then you can sort of count the rings if you cut one in half okay um so yes an animal with a horn rhino antelope sheep goat the older they are generally the bigger the horn will be because it's had more time to grow. Whereas animals with antlers, they shed them and therefore that doesn't quite follow.

So they're naturally occurring horns? Yes, yes they are. And they serve a purpose. They are used for display purposes. They're used to attract a mate. They're used for fighting and defending against other animals with similar protrusions. Yes.

So they're purposeful things. They're quite old as well. I found that the first group of animals to develop horns was a group of animals called the Brontotheridae from around 40 million years ago. And they're loosely rhino related uh they included some creatures called the uh megacerops the rhino titan and the eotitanops go and have a look at any of these creatures they they look like a distant relative of the rhino and they were sort of the first animals that had what could really be called horns um so they've been around for a while yes the word horn is first written down spelt in its current format in 1150 uh it came from an old english word horn which came from a german word horn which came from the

dutch word horn which came from the protooto-Indo-European word, which I love saying as a sentence, chrono. Oh. Which originally meant the top of your head. So is that where you get cor, so like the French word for horn? That would make sense.

It's also probably where we get crown, so the crown of your head. Oh, okay. So that's the origin of the word. It has pretty much always meant what it is. Right. So that's horns in their natural form. Then at some point or other, during prehistoric times, apparently,

a human being came along, lopped a horn off an animal, cut a hole in one end of it and blew through it, and it made a nice sound. Yes. Apparently, there are prehistoric wall paintings showing people blowing horns. So we've been doing that. We've had that sort of audio musical sense of the word horn for a blooming long time. Yes. You can also use them for drinking.

Of course, drinking horns. Didn't think of that. Yeah. So the Vikings used to use, or in fact, we should go back. So, you know, it's normally Didn't think of that. Yeah. So the Vikings used to use... In fact, we should go back. So you know it's normally the Romans or the Egyptians. This time it's the Greeks. Oh, is it? That'll make a nice change.

I know. Dionysus held drinking horns in high esteem, apparently. Really? Yeah, drinking horns are used quite a lot in... You can see them in carvings in greece people drinking out of a horn but yeah you you generally think of like the the the wild uh viking hordes drinking their ale out of a horn yes you do don't you yes any any kind of medieval era you know knights or i don't know lord of the rings or anything like that there's always a drinking horn involved yes although although um could go back to the egyptians please amon amon ra was an egyptian god of protection right and often depicted with ram's horns okay and the greek so

the greeks took amon ra and and made him into zeus and then incorporated him as jupiter so so so amon the egyptian god with the with horns. You've probably seen, there's often a circle, like when you see the Egyptian god Amon. He's got like a pair of horns with a circle between the two horns. Oh, I see. It looks like the world or it could be like a ball. Yes, I can picture that. Yes, I'm with you. Yeah. Ah, right. Did you come across a thing called a karnix? Nope.

Ah. See, this is where we work so well. We find out different things from each other. So the karnix was a wind instrument used by the Celts during the Iron Age. Okay. And it was sort of a trumpet made of bronze, and it stood straight up. Oh, yes, I've seen a picture of that. I didn't realise that's what it was called.

Yes, so basically the sound sort of goes over the top of the troops. Oh, I see. Yes, okay, I've seen a picture of that. I didn't realise that's what it was called. Yes, so the sound sort of goes over the top of the troops. Oh, I see. Yes, okay, yeah. And they usually had sort of the shape of a head or an open-mouthed boar or something. Yes, I can picture a drawing in the Asterix comic books of various Roman centurions using a horn like that. It sort of has the carved shape of a lion's mouth or something on the end of it. Yes.

It's either that or it's the big curly things that sort of wrap around you looking like a tuber or something, you know. But originally, you know, the blowing of horns was, I can't imagine the first person who accidentally, I don't know, maybe they were taking a drink from their drinking horn and they used it wrong. I don't know maybe they were taking a drink from their drinking horn and they they used it wrong i don't know but um they they make a jolly good resonant far carrying sound well they are mentioned in the bible yes of course they are so i was going to mention that um so they're used

for warning or signaling so look out a bad guy's coming or uh it's time to go hunting or whatever it might be or when you're fitting the battle of jericho yes of course yes he did fit that battle didn't he he did fit that battle and i believe um blowing horns are still used in in jewish religious ceremonies they are the chauffeur the chauffeur that's right yes it's a ram's ram's horn and and then sort of all the way up to you picture those really long thin straight bugletype horns with a banner hanging from the end. Yes. That's sort of used in royal court to announce the entry of the king or queen.

Or used at Christmas at the Royal Albert Hall when they have the Christmas songs, which I sing at. Yes, of course. And another area I hadn't really considered but this suddenly came up was alpine horns or alphorns. I love an alphorn. Those massive big wooden, apparently they're made from two individual curved pieces of wood which are then sort of about 10 feet long and they rest on the floor and they just produce this wonderful bellowing sound that goes across the valleys and the mountains. And apparently, I'd never really realised what they were for, but they were sort of a communication device to call out to the shepherds in the mountains and say, it's time to bring the cows into the barn for milking. I'll come on to why they're so big and long later. Oh, good. There's a reason why that shape.

Hooray. Getting techie. Good. Talking about using horns for war and sort of bringing down walls with a horn. It's not really that far-fetched. As recently as the Second World War, horns were used to detect aircraft coming towards Britain. Really? Talk about that. There's a large horn called a war tuber. Is there?

Yeah. And so what they would do is they would use it to detect enemy aircraft. This is before radar. Okay. So you just listen out for, you basically listen out for the aeroplanes. And they were connected to a stethoscope, like an earphone. Oh, right. And the operator would listen for the sound of an aircraft engine. And what they would do is they would position the horn in the direction of the sound. Yes. And then write down the direction of the aircraft and pass it on to the searchlights and the gunners.

Right. So they could keep an eye open in that particular direction to see when they could see the aeroplanes. So sort of like a giant ear trumpet. Yes, exactly. Exactly like that. That's great. Isn't that interesting? I'd thought about blowing into a horn to make a sound. I'd never even thought about putting your ear to the end of a horn to hear a sound. But yes, that's pretty much the same thing, isn't it? Yes.

Great. The use of the horn in war is very well documented. I mean, they were used to signal all sorts of things. You had a bugler or you had somebody on the horn to tell you what to do. Oh, yes, of course. Yes, you had different musical codes for, you know, time for battle, time for retreat. Yep. That sort of thing. Well, I'll tell you what I do.

I've actually got a recording of lots of different bugle calls, which I'll put in the show notes at factorily.com. Factorily.com? Yep. So if you look at the blog, you'll see there are show notes, which, I mean, there are links. They will send you around. Yes.

Enormous great horns of stuff. Be careful. Be careful. Cornucopia, which is literally a horn of plenty. Oh, is that what it is? Yes. So here we go. I'll give you a very quick rundown of the horn signals. Giddy. So you've got rallying troops, signaling troop movements, signaling tactical maneuvers, the

start of battles, the end of battles, the start of an offensive. You've got the adjutant's call, alarm, assembly, attention, boots and saddles, quarter quarters, ravalli, just loads and loads of different calls you can get on a bugle, which is effectively a horn. And then you've got the boogie-woogie bugle boy of Company B. Yes. Grand. Who would probably have got cashiered for doing that. They still use cashier.

I don't know what they do. They just get sacked from the army now, I suppose. The only sense in which I know the word cashier used is in cashier number one, please. I've met the person who does that. Really? I've met that voiceover, yeah. He's one of us. One of us.

One of us. Did you know that a trumpet is not a horn? Sorry? A trumpet is not a horn. So we talk about, we sort of hear in the jazz era you know you think about louis armstrong or or whoever it might be playing their trumpet and nicknaming it their horn apparently a horn has to be conical it has to be narrower at the mouth end and wider at the the other end yeah a trumpet although it does have a flared section at one end, the tube itself is not conical, it's cylindrical, and therefore it's not technically a horn.

Well, I'm blowed. Hmm. Just like the trumpet. I mean, I know there are things like, you know, the brass instruments in an orchestra are generally sort of, I mean, but then some of them horns and some of them aren't horns exactly yeah so if you look at a french horn if you look at a hunting horn um is there such a thing as a flugel horn or have i just met yes no no that's correct if you look at any of those things they they fit that description they are very very narrow at the mouth end and they gradually taper out to the large flare at the the other end um and the science behind that the science behind how a horn works is actually quite interesting you you put a very small amount of air in at the narrow end and an awful lot of air comes out at the flared end and therefore it amplifies the sound if you were to

just blow down a tube without a flare at the other end it would be an awful lot quieter so they're actually quite quite clever things and and to think that that all just came from a person who lopped a horn off a cow and blew it you know yes it's you know how long a french horn is no i don't it's 13 feet long assuming it were unraveled yes if you were able to unravel it 13 feet 13 feet of quite a long time it is yeah beat of horn. It is. Yeah. Now you mentioned earlier on the benefits of a longer horn in blowing. Yes. I feel that's a moment to discuss. Okay. So it's all about wavelengths and waveforms. So if you want to tell somebody a long way away, like if you're a Viking or if you're in the Swiss Alpsps yes uh that something is happening yes you need quite a low note because the low note has law has a long wavelength oh

we're getting our um our audio engineering geek on here we are we had we we have to know about this stuff as well yes we do um so one of the things that a long sound wave is is useful for is telling people in ships where there are rocks yes of course foghorns foghorns so if you look at old foghorns um the old literally steam-powered foghorns yeah um they had a very very very long horn on the top of a lighthouse or on the top of um somewhere where they were near rocks. And the idea of the length of that horn is so that you could produce a note that was incredibly low because shortwave length, it's like shortwave versus longwave on the radio. So shortwave doesn't go very far. Longwave goes around the world. So a long sound wave travels a lot further, especially in fog and things like that where a long sound wave travels a lot further especially in fog and things like

that where a short sound wave we get lost very quickly yes okay so that that's why foghorns go as opposed to going that was beautiful i enjoyed that yes so and foghorns were originally, as I said, they were steam-powered. Yeah. Nowadays, they're much more using speakers, sort of like a diaphragm. Yes, that's right. But they still use that very, very long horn because that gives them the depth that they need to travel far enough to warn ships out at sea. That's very good.

And also, there are various different lengths of, what would you call it, beeping? Feels inadequate, doesn't it? I know. Well, the beeps on a foghorn generally are different for each place where there's a lighthouse. Oh, what, in order to tell you where you are? Yes, exactly.

So if it's like two longs and a short or something, you know that you're in one particular area area of the sea i see okay the first time i remember hearing or or seeing about a foghorn was as a as a nipper watching the disney movie pete's dragon okay which takes place in a lighthouse and uh they use the foghorn to scare off a couple of troublemakers. And it's just such a beautiful resonant sound. You know, these modern things that go beep, it doesn't quite feel the same for me. But apparently before foghorns, people used to blow whistles, blow on large seashells if you go back far enough. You know, they would blow on a conch shell or something like that um around the 1700s and they started firing cannons or muskets every five minutes uh just to you know so that ships could

hear hear that sound the first written record of using uh explosives as a predecessor to the fulcrum was in 1719 uh in cornwall at eddy stone. But obviously that's not automated. You have to reload your cannon every now and then. And so through the 19th century, they sort of tried to work out a different way of doing it. As you say, they had steam-powered foghorns. The gentleman who's credited with inventing the steam-powered foghorn, I found out about this chap called Robert Fooley,

who was a scottish fellow who moved to canada and apparently he um he was out taking a walk one day in the fog and he could hear his daughter playing the piano back in the house and he noticed that the low notes were clearer than the high notes and so he's credited with the idea of of what you've just said of using lower notes to alert ships rather than higher notes because they can be heard from further away um and he came up with this idea for a steam-powered foghorn in 1859 i think it was gosh there are bits of you which are named after a horn.

Um, are there? Well, you know, I mentioned Ammon's horn earlier, the Egyptian guy. Yes. There's actually a bit in your brain called Ammon's horn, or the hippocampus proper. Oh, okay. And it actually looks like the shape of Ram's horns. Oh, is that right? Yeah. So you have a little piece of egyptian horn in your

brain oh doesn't that make you proud horns can be quite dangerous though i would imagine so yes if you have a raging bull charging at you and that's um that's gonna hurt or when you're trying to sail from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Yes, exactly the same thing. What? So Cape Horn. Oh, brilliant. Oh, what a segue. So Cape Horn is a place at the bottom of South America,

which is where the Pacific Ocean meets the Atlantic Ocean. Yes. And it's very easy to go west to east, but it's practically impossible to go east to west. Is it? It's very, very, very difficult. You hear terrible stories of ships meeting their ends on the Cape Horn. I mean, there's the Cape of Good Hope, which is the one at the bottom of Africa. Sure, yes. Which is also, that's not as of Good Hope, which is the one at the bottom of Africa.

Sure, yes. Which is also, that's not as difficult a cape as Cape Horn. I mean, you know, you've got Good Hope, which sounds good. It sounds promising, doesn't it, already, yeah. Horn sounds a bit, you know, could be trollism. There's a wonderful thing called the Wagner tuba. Have you heard about this? No, I haven't, no.

So Richard Wagner, for his Ring Cycle operas, he actually decided that there wasn't a sound, there was a sound in his head that he couldn't make using musical instruments. Right. So he designed a brass instrument called the Wagner tuba, which sounds very similar to a tuba. Right. But apparently not similar enough. Is it sort of a bit lower and deeper or a bit raspier?

I'll have to put a thing in the show notes explaining what the difference is between a Wagner tuba and a tuba tuba. Yes. Do you know one of my favourite sounds that can be made by a horn go on poop poop is that toad of toad hall it is yay being a massive fan of wind in the willows as i am i love the idea of a of a nice old-fashioned car horn that just looks like a little bugle with sort of a leather or rubber squeezy bit at one end, bulb, that you either squeeze or punch.

And it makes that beautiful poop-poop noise that Mr. Toad was so fond of. I think that's a beautiful sound. The person who first thought, I know, let's put a trumpet on the side of the car. Yes.

It's a great idea. There are some beautiful, beautiful looking trumpets on the sides of cars. Again, a bit like the Carnix. I've seen cars, and I will put a picture, because I know I've taken a picture of this, of a car with a car horn that goes all the way along the side of the car and ends up in a sort of like a dragon's head. Have you ever eaten a horn? Um, cream horn? Yes. Boom, that's where he was going. Or canoncini or kourinakia in Greece.

No, I have not had one of those. And Schaumkollen in Austria. Oh, no. Even in America, they have different names. They're called ladylocks or clothespin cookies. Okay. Cream horns are yummy. What makes up a cream horn?

A horn and some cream, I would suggest. Not a proper horn, though. No, no. A horn shape made out of pastry of some kind? Yes, exactly. Yeah. A little bit croissant-esque, but with a hole at one end filled with cream. Yes.

Yeah. Cream horns. Of course, one of the most famous horns in the world, I don't know if it still is actually, is the HMV logo. Oh, yes. Do you remember HMV? They used to have shops and everything.

They're making a little bit of a research, actually. Are they? I've seen a few very, very small HMV shops around. So when HMV first launched selling records, they used an old sort of wind-up gramophone. Yes. And attached to the wind-up gramophone, obviously, is a large horn. Yes.

Which you play the music out of. And there was a dog called Nipper. Yes, there was. Who was listening to the music that was coming out of the horn. Yes. And I think that there's a music company that's now making something called Nipper and I don't know why I think it's Warner Brothers rather than HMV

Nipper the dog is buried in Kingston upon Thames which is quite close to me he's got a little black sadly he was buried in a park which he's now got a branch of Lloyd's Bank sitting on top of it.

So you can't see his burial place, but there's a nearby plaque. Oh, nice. Yeah. His master's voice. Indeed. So, Simon, are there any records about horns? Yes, there are quite a few. Because, as mentioned earlier, because horn has so many different interpretations,

there's an awful lot of records that go with each sub-topic. Okay. So I've had to narrow it down a little bit. In animal terms, the biggest animal horn came from an Asian water buffalo from Thailand. This particular water buffalo was shot, sadly, in 1955. And his horns, given the fact that it's sort of a pair of horns joined at the forehead, from tip to tip was 13 feet and 10 inches. I was not expecting that.

No, neither was I when i read it that would be very difficult to get through a door with wouldn't it just so 13 feet that's that's a little more than you laying horizontally on one side of his forehead and me laying horizontally on the other side of his forehead made out of horn that must have been so unwieldy yeah um the largest ensemble of car horns oh yes 1077 vehicles got together in august of 2023 in the philippines um this was organized by the ford everest motor club in the philippines and they played their car horns for one minute and six seconds. Not just a constant, but, you know, bibbing and tooting individually all together.

1,077 of them. Wow. You can actually play music. You can play Beethoven on car horns. Yes, I can imagine you would. There's a thing called the Toyota Choir. Right. on car horns yes i can imagine you would there's a thing called the toyota choir right use car horns to to to play various different tunes wow that sounds like fun yeah i mean you see bill bailey doing it from time to time oh yes of course he did um what was it enter sandman quite possibly

we'll um we'll put a put a video on if it's available we'll put it on the show notes very good uh i found another record for the largest number of uh alporn uh alpine horn players uh 1006 of them what gathered together in switzerland that's a noise just last year 2024 um and then i discovered something called the Foghorn Requiem, which is a piece of music composed for brass band and ship's foghorn. Wow. See, every time you say foghorn, I want to say, I say, I say.

I'm no chicken, I'm a rooster. Yes, I understand. In 2013, someone gathered together 55 ships in the North Sea. They had a brass band playing on the shore, and they were accompanied by these 55 ship's horns. Please tell me that exists in video. It does exist in video. I will put it up on the website. Fantastic.

Isn't that great? Yeah. All of the ships were connected to each other via the internet and um they were actually programmed to to signal their horns in complete synchrony oh my word from afar rather than being reliant on each individual captain pressing the button um can you imagine the latency on that you'd have to you'd have to allow for quite a lot of pauses. Yes, it would have to be created in such a way that it all sounded perfectly synchronised from the shore for the people who were standing near the band.

It always amazes me how they managed to do that with fireworks, when they've got music and fireworks, how they managed to get the fireworks going bang at exactly the right point. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, it's quite impressive. And this one isn't really well i can't verify that it's an official record but there's a video floating around on youtube again i'll put it on the show notes um that claims to be the world's largest air horn it's it's pretty big

um that doesn't actually give the measurements so that's a little bit of a problem but um there's an american fella who created this incredibly large air horn, drove two and a half miles away and got his friend to activate it and could hear it all that distance away. So not just for a sporting event or anything like that? No, it was sort of a science experiment. They were trying to see, well, firstly, the video shows the fact that this air horn can break glass if played at the right frequency. Yes.

Secondly, they wanted to see how far away you could hear the air horn. And thirdly, they timed the speed of sound. So from two and a half miles away, one person hit the trigger for the air horn, the other person waited, and it took 11 seconds for the sound of the air horn to reach their ears. Wow. So that's quite fun. Well, that's all the information I have on the broad subject of

horns. How about you, Bruce? I know that's it for me too. I'm all played out. I'm feeling brassed off. So thank you ever so much for listening to this episode. And we look forward to seeing you next time. And you'll know when the next time is because you will have subscribed, won't you, Simon? Absolutely, you will. Yes, you shouldn't just rely on guesswork or telepathy. You will have hit the subscribe button and you'll get a lovely little ping in your inbox every week to say that a new episode has arrived. Same thing if you leave a five-star review. Which is, you know, no fewer than it deserves, frankly.

Well, we think so. And if you tell us why you liked this particular episode on horns, we will be terribly, terribly grateful. We will, because we don't like to blow our own trumpet. Oh, dear. I mean, as will your friends when you tell them all about this episode. Yes. And if you want to pull us

up on anything that we do on any of our shows yes we've got a facebook page uh factorily uh or you can just tell us directly you can just um hello at factoria.com uh we'll reach us we love being corrected because we're on a constant journey of growth and knowledge and understanding so if we've got something wrong let us know give. You have to give as good as you get, don't you? Because we'll be at things where we go, actually, I think you'll find you're wrong. Yes. So we're perfectly happy to be on the receiving end of that as well.

So thank you so much for joining us for another fun-filled episode of Fact or Relate. And please come again soon. Until then, au revoir. Bye-bye.