FACTORALY - E81 SKIING

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

There's nothing quite like the exhilaration of downhill skiing. The cold, clear mountain air is invigorating, and although skiing has been around since the Stone Age, the downhill version has only been around for a century or so. Dive into the mogul hills of facts in this episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello Bruce. Hi Simon. How are you today? I'm very well thank you, how are you doing? I'm not too bad, thank you very much. much good i'm glad to hear it and hello to everyone who happens to be listening to this either intentionally or accidentally we welcome you either way if it's accidentally how did they get here i don't know maybe they were looking for something interesting and came here by mistake yeah quite possibly here being factorially that's correct yes which is a repository i was going to say another word um for for information uh mostly useless but occasionally useful indeed and presented to you in glorious i was going to say technicolor that's the wrong format

uh in glorious dolby surround sound um by me simon wells and, Bruce Fielding. Do we do this in surround sound? No, we don't. We do it in stereo. Okay, stereo. Stereo, stereo, stereo, stereo. Exactly. Bruce and I both happen to be professional voiceover artists. So we spend all our time sitting in these little soundproof rooms

recording deliciously, delightfully, delectfully wonderful sounding words. And then we come over here and we chat about nonsense. Yeah, we do. Yeah. Because that's what we like. We like that. Indeed. So what particular subject are we going to be talking about today, Bruce?

It's all going downhill, I'm afraid. Yes, it's a slippery slope, isn't it? Occasionally lifts you up. Oh, no. We'll talk about lifts in a minute. It's skiing. Skiing. Do you ski? I don't ski. I have never skied. I very much doubt I will ever ski. I'm what some people affectionately call clumsy as heck.

Okay. Yeah, I don't think it would be for me. I think I would come home in a rather bad state. How about you? Do you ski? I do, yeah. I've been skiing for about 60 years. Crikey, and you're still at it. Yeah, well.

Time to take a break. I think it is probably time for me to hang up my boots. But yeah, I started when I was 11. Oh, really? Wow. So I've been skiing a lot for a long time. And I lived in Switzerland for a while. So that kind of encouraged me to go skiing a bit more often. Right. lot for a long time and I lived and I lived in Switzerland for for a while so of course that

kind of encouraged me to go skiing a bit more often right I'm just picturing whether I've ever seen a pair of skis in your house do you have them presented anywhere I used to have my own skis but then I started to realize that actually ski technology was improving year on year yes and actually having your own skis is inefficient because there's new technology coming into skis all the time and in fact if you live in switzerland there's a very good deal where you can rent your skis every year for the whole season all right okay and so that's what i was doing so better to do it that way yeah okay um would you say you're proficient i would say i can get i can get down pretty much anything

okay uh but not in an elegant way always yeah i can fall down a hill with the best of them yeah no i mean i yeah i can stay on my feet but okay i'm okay i thought i would i would say i'm an addict sort of a good intermediate. Okay, great. I had a look at the origin of the word skiing. It's one of those tricky words that when it's a verb, it doesn't really have much of an origin other than the fact that it means to use the word that the verb comes from. Yes. I.e. skis.

Yes. the word that the verb comes from yes i.e skis yes uh a ski the word ski comes from an old norse word skieth okay meaning a stick of wood fair enough so a ski is a stick of wood that you strap to the bottom of your foot you travel across the snow on a ski and therefore you are skiing i don't like the word skiing because it has two consecutive I's and it makes me feel very uncomfortable. I feel like there should be an E or a Y in there somewhere, but there isn't. It's just skiing. So originally it was, as you say, like the Viking sticks. Yeah. But then it became a verb only quite recently, skiing. Right. Okay. How recently? So if you'd been alive some you know

a couple hundred years ago you wouldn't have had to worry about those two eyes in the middle oh right okay as recently as that then yes interesting i mean skiing itself has been around for a long long time has it how long well there are cave paintings. Really? Yes, of people with skis. Because actually to get around on snow is quite difficult because you tend to sink. So you have like you wear a pair of tennis rackets on your feet or something like that. Snowshoes, yeah. Or you have like planks of wood. That makes sense.

It sort of distributes the body weight over a larger surface area and and therefore you you don't sink don't sink in and what you then do is you then cover those planks of wood with animal hides with the skin with the hair on the skin facing in a way so that you can push the ski easily forward but it won't come back um quite so easily right so that's sort of velvety effect where you can stroke yes the nap yeah oh that's genius so it's a as a way of getting around you can go forwards quite easily and you won't slip back that's very clever indeed i read that um long before skiing ever became a leisure pursuit it was as you say just just a way of getting around on the snow um so people in in russia were using them thousands of years ago uh whilst hunting uh even in battle you know a very

long time ago people would uh ski into battle because they were a good way of getting across the the tundra yes that makes sense i saw that there was, around the time that you mentioned the skis being covered in animal skin, I discovered something called asymmetrical skis, by which one ski was longer and smoother and often coated in animal fat. Right. And the other ski was shorter and coated in animal hair. So you sort of pushed with the one ski and glid along on the other oh that makes sense um so it was very much a sort of a one-footed thing

what are the this is going to be a very much a noob question what is the purpose of the poles uh balance right it's a way of getting your timing right getting your turns right um if you're going uphill yeah you can actually sort of like use the poles to push you to help you so you move your feet yeah and then you use the poles to stop you from slipping back okay right okay on downhill skiing it's it's just a way of balancing and timing things and getting the rhythm going because i can sort of picture a team of cross-country skiers with their huskies and their sleds and all the rest of it and they're using the poles how i would imagine

them to be used sort of like hiking poles yeah exactly um but then you see someone going down a hill with them and after a little push at the top they just hold them they they don't sort of serve tuck them under their arms. Exactly, yeah. That's always seemed a bit of dead weight to me. But you'll notice that when they turn, they get one out and they sort of stick it in the snow very briefly. Yes, and it sort of drags them in that direction. Well, it doesn't really.

It's just a way of getting your balance moved. Right, OK. It's sort of like a timing thing. Interesting. But going along flat areas is what the Austrians and Germans call langlauffing. Langlauffing. Langlauffing or cross-country skiing. Okay. And that's how most skiing was forever, was just going along.

And occasionally you'd come to a hill and you could actually get some downhill going. Sure. In Tibet, they used to use yaks to pull them up hills. Oh, really? So the first ski lift was a yak. It was a yak. That's brilliant. And they used to use various different ways of getting you up hills over time. And it was very popular in norway obviously yes i i see

norway being brought up an awful lot i've sort of read a lot of things about um the origins of skis and different types of skis coming from norway um i saw a particular type of ski used in finland by seal hunters and these skis were sort of three or four meters long yeah and they were there particularly to avoid cracks in the ice so that you could you know slide along the the packed ice absolutely i mean when i first when i first went skiing when i was 11 the way you measured your skis was you stood with your hand in the air and the ski would be from the floor up to the palm of your hand oh i see which is completely the opposite of what they do now which is they start you off on really short skis and then get you on

to longer and longer skis until you get up to sort of almost your your height right okay okay yeah so it's quite different now and that's all to do with the shape of the ski and you probably notice that it's got like a waist on it so it's like fatter at the ends than it is in the middle yes i've seen that and that's to help that's what's called a carving ski so that helps you to go around corners so as you put your as you as you put pressure and weight in the middle as you're going around a corner the ski actually bends but because it's bending because it's got that uh that shape the whole of the ski stays in contact with the snow. I see. Yes. OK. As opposed to the tips kind of like coming up.

Yeah. So that's the way that works. The Brits have always been very fond of skiing. A lot of Brits started to go to Norway to norway to go skiing yes that was where you went sure um including sherlock holmes oh heck yes he did didn't he i remember this now yeah so if you remember sherlock holmes went skiing yes but actually arthur conan doyle was the person who brought skiing from norway to switzerland no They weren't doing much skiing in Switzerland, or certainly not much downhill skiing.

Yeah. And he brought downhill skiing from Norway to Switzerland. Did he? Yeah. Well done, Sir Arthur. Good old Sir Arthur. Brilliant. But, I mean, it wasn't until about 1922

that proper downhill skiing was a thing. That was a chap called Arnold Lund, another Brit. Oh, we're doing well. We've had a couple of Brits involved here. Oh, yes. Yeah, so Arnold Lund had a bit of his legs shot off in the First World War. Right.

And he was a very athletic chap and he wanted to carry on doing something. Yeah. And he decided that downhill skiing was the way to go and in 1922 he sort of created competitions and whatnot to um to go downhill skiing okay right when was this 19 1920s yeah that's a lot more recent than i would have imagined i'd have thought that the sport was as old as the implements themselves. Well, yes, the cave paintings. I think that the practicality of skiing has been around forever. Yes. But the leisure of skiing, I mean, because it's fun, I think that's how young the sport is.

Yes. You talked about sort of falling over. Yes. It's very easy to break things when you're skiing. I would imagine. Because you have a piece of wood between your legs. So if you do fall over and you get tangled up in the piece of wood and metal that's between your legs, it's likely that it's going to take your leg out.

That's not encouraging. So broken legs are quite common. Broken wrists are quite common. In fact, broken everything is pretty common there's apparently i read the only bone in the human body that hasn't been broken by skiing is the middle ear really yeah everything else has been broken by skiing wow i bet you anything i'd be able to do that you could give it a go that's brilliant have you sustained any injuries yourself uh yes yes i i have i have just had a knee replaced that was injured uh many years ago in a skiing accident oh was that the origin of

your knee issue that's that's one of them yes the other one was a motorcycle one. So, yeah, I dislocated a shoulder once. That was fun. That's not good. I mean, this isn't an opportunity for me to talk about my woes, but I have had various different things happen to me when I was skiing. In order to get down a hill, you have to go up a hill. That makes sense. So we've talked about yaks pulling people up. There's lots of different ways of going up. Ski lifts are the biggie.

Yes, ski lifts. Where you build like a whole infrastructure of sort of metal wiring and towers and things. And the first one of those was invented in 1908. Right. That was in a place called Hochschwarzwald. Well pronounced. Thank you very much. But the first chairlift was actually American.

Okay. And it's quite interesting. The Union Pacific Railway were out to get more punters going west. And they thought, how can we get people to go on a train to go west? And skiing in the 1930s in America was becoming a very popular thing. And people were going to Europe to go skiing. And the Union Pacific said, well, we've got the Rockies. Yes.

Surely we must be able to do something here so they actually sent somebody out to go and survey the rockies for the perfect ski resort and then they built the whole resort up created and invented the first chairlift wow and that resort is called sun valley which is now a very popular ski resort in america and and all that just to boost ticket sales for the railway exactly that's fantastic crikey i had a quick look at the first ski lift you mentioned in 1908 not the chairlift but this is just a ski lift which instead of chairs sort of has a a bit of rope or cable hanging from the system and then there's

like a sort of a crossbar you can hold on to or tuck between your legs or whatever um this was uh this was a fellow called mr winterhalder very good thank you very much who um who owned a farm slash guest house slash restaurant and um he had sort of visitors coming up to his his beautiful mountainside all covered in snow and they they would sort of go tobogganing they would go cross-country skiing but it was up a hill and they had real problems getting up this hill and um this fella owned a mill and uh one day he was working in his his flour mill and he was looking at the drive belt that that sort of you know went from one area of the mill to the other yeah and um thought to himself huh i wonder if i could use something

like that and um he he first adapted it to carry bags of grain from his house at the top of the hill down to his mill and then the flour back up to the house and he thought i bet i could attach some skiers to this to this drive belt so he just expanded it slightly and put these attachments on for people to hold on to and um away they went and he he gave this thing an incredibly punchy name the continuous cable car with towing hitches for tobogganists and skiers these these mill owners are very clever i mean we in in our episode on buses uh yes about a mill owner who invented the bus that's right yes i remember that as well i was thinking of that

and then this fella managed to get um a few patents patents i can never decide um around 1909 1910 he he obtained the patents for this ski lift model uh in germany france austria norway sweden and switzerland wow so for a short time he was kind of the sole producer of of ski lifts in the the early 1910s goodness all because of owning a flour mill so i imagine he got out of the flour business and into the ski lift business. He does seem to have done quite well. He was awarded various awards and things by skiers associations. And yeah, he did all right. Good.

The ski lift isn't the only way to get up a hill. No, I suppose not. You could always take your skis off and climb. Well, that's what they did originally, was either take your skis off and climb well that's what they did originally was either take the skis off and climb or with these animal skins you can sort of walk up a sort of slight incline yes yes um so that's fine but then nowadays there are various different ways that you can get up to the top um everything from like a rope toe which is basically just the piece of rope that goes they're usually on sort of fairly flattish surfaces. Yeah.

So they don't go very fast. You basically just hang on to the rope and it drags you up the hill. One up from that is a thing called a magic carpet, which I love. Okay. And the magic carpet is basically like a travelator, a rubber travelator. Yeah. And it's mostly on flat surfaces or slight inclines. Yeah.

And you just stand on the magic carpet. And it just pulls you up. You just stand and it pulls you up the hill like a travel agent. Brilliant. Very good. And then you go from that to like a button, which is one of those things that hangs from a cable. Yes. And you just sort of put it between your legs and it pulls you up the thing.

Yeah. And then there's a T-bar, which is similar to that, but you can do two people except i'm quite big and tall and if a little child gets on the other end it's always a bit tricky um then you have things like um funiculars so funicular railways taking up to the top they're fun and then finally you get things like proper ski lifts well you get chair lifts yeah and you get the big the big uh ski lifts the sort of the the gondola type things yes where the doors open and you hop inside yes and there's room for like two or three people in there like the thing that goes across the thames at um the o2 yes exactly yeah yes um although i have never skied i have used a ski lift you have because well i don't know if you can

really call it a ski lift because skiing isn't involved but that's definitely what the thing is um on the isle of wight okay there's a ski lift at uh at allen bay that takes you from the cliff down to the beach and that's where all the multi-colored layers of sand are that you can sort of pour into little glass molds and the only way of getting down there is on this rather steep ski lift and it is most definitely that it's a chairlift it's the sort of thing you sort of remember hopping on this thing as a kid and you just sort of stood on this bit of land and you just sort of waited for the next chair to come behind you and scoop you up wow and you just kind of plonked into it and fastened yourself in and there you were with your legs dangling in the air it was um wonderful no skiing involved but

i've been on a ski lift you can ski on sand um yes i suppose you could although it's most it's mostly snowboarding or sort of the bars. But you can actually go down a dune. Yeah, I can imagine that would work quite well, actually. It's all just powder, isn't it? Yes. And you can ski on grass. Can you?

So back in the 80s, I was introduced to grass skiing by a friend of mine. Okay. And it's basically like a tank. It's like you're wearing a pair of tank tracks on your feet. So you have your ski boots and your ski boots clip in to these tank tracks. They're quite short. They're probably about, I would say, about three quarters of a meter. Okay, right.

And there's enough room for your boots and probably a few inches either end or a few centimetres either end. Yeah. And, yeah, they work pretty much on a good shortcut dry grass slope. Yeah. They work just as well as skis. It feels, it's quite clattery. Yes, I would imagine. We have a blog at factorily.com.

Factorily.com? Yeah, that one. And I'll put a video clip of some people grass skiing actually not far from my house on on parliament hill actually on primrose hill really in london yeah it's great it's great and and so so you can ski on sand you can ski on grass and of course you can ski on water oh water skiing you went there so water skiing was was invented in about 1922 right and it's great thing to do and you're basically just pulled along behind a boat there have to be uh two people in the boat and the skier so it's basically a three-person operation okay so you've got the skier who's being dragged behind the boat yeah you've got the person spotting for the person who's being dragged behind the boat.

And you've got the person driving the boat. Okay. Who can then be told to stop when the water skier falls off. Yeah. But yeah, water skiing, again, it's quite a sport. They've been trying to get it into the Olympics. Skiing, obviously, is in the Winter Olympics. Yeah, of course.

All sorts of skiing. They've tried some weird things. There's a record for water skiing, which is... Okay, one boat can pull how many people? So lots of separate individual water skiers on their own water skis all hanging onto a line off the back of the boat. I'd say 10. You're way off.

11. No, I mean way, way off. Really? 100? Still way off. Really? Go on then. 145. But that's an awful lot of people on skis hanging on to the back of a... I can just picture all of their ropes getting tangled up and cutting into each other people are strange wow that's a lot of water skiers that's the record

145 people simultaneously water skiing and you can use oh well i don't know if they are snowboards or if they're waterboards but then waterboarding is something else altogether um you can use um sort of a snowboard type jobby for water skiing as well can't you yes which make the the skier able to sort of flip and jump and twist and yep do all sorts of all those things and also there's one with two skis there's one with one ski yes and there's a sort of water skiing with no skis at all oh barefoot water skiing yes yeah my cousin does that or did that okay he's. I think he's one of the oldest people in Britain to barefoot water ski. Really? Good on him.

Again, I'll put a clip in the show notes. My cousin. Lovely. Very good. I discovered a lovely pub in Farnborough a while back, which is built right on the edge of a water skiing lake. So you can sort of sit there on a nice summer's evening enjoying your your dinner and a drink by the water and then all of a sudden these water skiers just descend upon the lake and they've got those ramps in the middle of the lake the skiers jump up and you just get this free show watching these these water skiers over dinner it's fantastic oh it's great. Very fascinating. British people do like skiing. Yes.

We've never been especially good at it, though. No, I suppose not. I mean, you know, if you look at the Olympics, it's all like Sweden, Norway, French, China, Japan. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there is quite a lot of skiing in Japan as well and in China. Japan is becoming a very popular resort to go skiing in. They've got some nice big snowy mountains, haven't they? They have.

And we have, I mean, although we do enter the Olympics occasionally, we've never done especially well. I think I can see where you're about to go with this. So in 1988. Yep've never done especially well. I think I can see where you're about to go with this. So in 1988. Yep, that's the one. We had our very first entrant. Yes. In ski jumping. Michael David Edwards.

So tell me all about Michael David Edwards. Well, he went by the nickname Eddie the Eagle. Aha. Apparently as a kid, he was nicknamed Eddie because of his surname. And yeah, this guy fascinates me. There was a movie about him a handful of years ago. Someone made a biopic. Or do we say biopic?

No, no, we say a biopic. That's good. Biopic is myopic. Biopic sounds surgical. Yes. No, it's a biopic. With Taron Egerton. That's the one.

Yeah. Very good movie um and this fella just sort of he just came from obscurity he he grew up in cheltenham in the uk he was a bit of an odd job man he was a plasterer for a while he was this and that uh he had incredibly thick glasses because he was very uh nearsighted he was a little bit heavier and stockier than the average olympic skier and he was entirely self-funded he didn't have any sort of backing he wasn't part of a particular organization he'd entered and won no international contests or anything else before but somehow he managed to get to the olympics i think he came last but because he was the only british entrant he held the british record for skiing at the olympics from 1988 to 2001

and billy's his childhood ambition was to was to win something at the Olympics, wasn't it? Yes. He didn't really mind what. He just wanted to go there. Yes. But isn't that brilliant? Apparently, he got all of his ski gear from lost property. Did he really? Yeah.

He used to go to lost property quite regularly and go, I've got your ski gear. And his skis, poles, goggles, anything. Wonderful. And he sort of had a bit of a mixed reputation you know obviously the brits loved him because he was a total underdog story you know came from nowhere went to the olympics um i think the international skiing community admired his but you know he was slightly ridiculed as being not terribly proficient, shall we say. And the International Olympic Committee came up with a new rule, which they nicknamed the Eddie the Eagle rule. Okay.

Which basically said anyone entering the Olympics has to have competed in international events and be placed in the top 30 percent before they could enter the olympics because they sort of felt that the high standards of the olympics had been slightly tarnished by this fella coming out of nowhere and perceivingly made a bit of a mockery of the whole thing so they changed the rules and called it the eddie the eagle rule so that was ski jumping wasn't it that was yes eddie the eagle did yes um i had a little look into the origin of this sport and um it's older than i would have expected it's older than leisure skiing okay is uh the first ski jumping competition was held in norway in 1866 gosh that is an old time and there's evidence that it was already going on

quite a long way before that, possibly even the late 1700s. The first ever recorded ski jump was by a Norwegian fellow called Olaf Rai in 1808. Wow. And he managed to jump a full nine and a half metres. Which, considering these days, we're sort of you know into the hundreds i think yes um not great but you know 1808 that's not bad that's pretty that's

that's good for 1808 yeah yeah and and this whole thing was just sort of started as a bit of a laugh by a bunch of um norwegian farmers who just sort of thought hey wouldn't it be fun to go down a hill on our skis and then jump a bit and now it's you know one of the most popular winter olympic sports going i have been to innsbruck and seen the ski jump at innsbruck it's terrifying yeah i bet it's very tall and very steep yeah i wouldn't fancy it no not at all and you're going quite fast by the time you hit the bottom as well yes i'd imagine so yeah in fact um skiing is the fastest you can go um without any form of um propulsion propulsion really yeah well yes i suppose it's just you and gravity and a

slippery surface isn't it so yeah and you can guess that makes sense you can get up to some amazing speeds i mean the fastest that anybody's been on skis i was going to do a guess but i don't think you're ever going to guess this so the fastest that anybody's ever been on skis wait wait wait 158.76 miles per hour yes this complete guess oh that was that was genius i've got this as a french fellow called simon billy in 2023 you're right and of course skiing is a very athletic thing to do it looks as though it's easy it looks like you're just slipping down a hill yeah but you're using lots of muscles to keep you sort of upright and and balanced yes and and in fact uh skiing uses up about 400 calories an hour no way yeah i think also the cold maybe sure but but it's it's you know if you've done a good day

skiing you you've certainly earned a good slap up meal meal. Wow. That's a lot of calories, isn't it? Crikey. Yeah, they do make it look rather effortless, but I don't suppose for a moment it is. No, I'm sure it isn't. That's why you go for the apres-ski. I wouldn't know. Have you never apres-skied?

Of course I have. You strike me as the sort of fellow who would take. Yes, apres-ski is half the fun. I mean, there are people who don't actually ski at all, but just go who would oh yes yes apres ski is half i mean there are people who don't go who don't actually ski at all but just go along and they just apri they get they get a nice suntan in the sunshine up at the top of the ski lifts yeah yeah and then have a drink at the bottom i think i could handle that part of it yeah yeah it's sitting in a nice wooden chalet by a cozy fire it doesn't suck so do we have any records for skiing apart from that um that's super quick one what we've already

mentioned yes so that was that was one of the ones i i found hence my astonishingly accurate guess i found the record for the world's longest ski jump uh which was achieved by a fellow whose name i can't pronounce i i'm not even going to try it's got umlauts all over the place oh go on go on ryu yukobi yashi okay no i'm not going to pronounce that either then fine good um in april 2024 just last year and he holds the current ski jump record at 291 meters or 955 feet i mean the thing is a lot of that is just falling going down isn't it yes it is it's kind of cheating because if you actually look at it going flat it's probably nowhere near that distance no it's the diagonal travel isn't it it's not just how far along it's

how far along and down yes yeah but it's still a hell of a long way yeah absolutely uh i found the so we already did the the world's fastest downhill skier i found the world's fastest backwards downhill skier i was a norwegian gentleman again, Norwegians, called Anders Back in 2024. Again, 82.92 miles per hour. Backwards. Skiing backwards down a ski jump slope. I really hope he stopped before he actually got to the jump bit because that sounds dangerous. He would have to have people yelling at him going, stop!

Yes, exactly. Wow. And then a fun little one the largest number of skiers on a single pair of skis take a guess okay here we go um 45 higher 85 higher 115 oh so close i'll give it to you. 130 people. Wow. This was in 2016 in Finland. This is a normal pair of skis, right? No, this was custom made.

This is the ironic thing. So these 130 skiers in Finland strapped themselves onto a pair of skis that were 140 meters long and they sort of synchronized themselves you know to sort of step in time um the skis were 140 meters long they only traveled 120 meters so they didn't actually travel the full length of the skis so they sort of all started off from this particular point and the person at the front led them off and they traveled 120 meters which kind of implies that the back of the skis never got to the front yes of the finishing mark um but yes 130 people on a pair of skis wow yeah that's it for my records so you can do all sorts of things skiing yes you can all sorts of things one of the things you probably couldn't do skiing is subscribe to this podcast i would recommend against it you could do

at lunchtime or at apres ski absolutely yes but not whilst going downhill no no bad idea so there are there are people and i'm one of, who like listening to music while going downhill. Okay, yeah. And the trick is not to have it on so loud that you actually don't hear it. People are yelling at you like, Cliff! My name's not Cliff. Yeah. Well, this could be just the soothing and relaxing thing that people need to hear as

they're hurtling down a hill with two planks of wood on their feet that's true and if it's on a thursday they'll get a ding and it'll say hey you subscribed to factorily so there's a new one perfect and then obviously all of the skiing community around you would clearly like to know about this podcast as well. So you could go and tell them about it. Absolutely. Or you could give us a five-star review. Yes, that would be nice.

And of course, then there's our back catalogue. Exactly. Yeah, that could last you your entire skiing trip and beyond. Yes. So thank you very much for coming along to listen to us today. Please tune in again for the next fun-filled episode of Fact or Relay. Goodbye.

Cheerio.