Factually! with Adam Conover - How These Strippers UNIONIZED Their Strip Club with Equity Strippers Noho

Episode Date: September 13, 2023

Every worker deserves a union — including strippers! Recently, strippers at the Star Garden in North Hollywood became the first strippers in decades to unionize. On this week’s Factually, Charlie and Lilith from Equity Strippers Noho join Adam to explain how they banded together to ensure their safety and fair wages, and how you can do the same in your workplace.SUPPORT THE SHOW ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/adamconoverSEE ADAM ON TOUR: https://www.adamconover.net/tourdates/SUBSCRIBE to and RATE Factually! on:» Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/factually-with-adam-conover/id1463460577» Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0fK8WJw4ffMc2NWydBlDyJAboutHeadgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creatingpremium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy toachieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to ourshows at https://www.headgum.com.» SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1» FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum» FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/» FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgumSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Hello and welcome to Factually. I'm Adam Conover. Thank you so much for joining me once again as I talk to some incredible people about all the amazing things they know that I don't know and that you might not know. Now, Labor Day has come and gone, and that means that hot labor summer is technically over. But you know what? We're going to have to come up with a new seasonal catchphrase because the fight for labor rights is still heating up in America. In just the past month, UPS Teamsters secured a giant new contract by threatening to go on strike.

American Airlines pilots got a massive 21% raise. American Airlines flight attendants won a gigantic strike authorization vote. And we're seeing video game actors and auto workers authorize strikes, along with healthcare workers in Oregon and Colorado. And don't forget, writers and actors are still on strike in Hollywood.

We're seeing all of this activity across widely different industries because workers' struggles are the same for everyone, no matter what job you do, even at jobs that have not traditionally gotten the respect they deserve. For instance, strippers. Recently, the strippers at the Star Garden,

a topless bar in North Hollywood here in Los Angeles, became the first strip club workers to unionize in decades. And what did they want? Well, the same as workers anywhere. Safety, fairness, security, dignity, and the right to not be fired for bringing up their concerns. Dancers at this club had to deal with threatening patrons without the help of security, and when some of them complained, they were unjustly fired.

So, after a year of striking, picketing, and legal sparring that went all the way up to the federal level, strip club management finally withdrew their challenges last spring and recognized the union. The strippers won. And this story is so cool and so important to the entire labor movement because it shows that every worker, and that means every worker, deserves and can win the protection of a union.

And that is why I am so grateful to have two of these brave workers on the show today. But before I get into it, I just wanna remind you that if you wanna support this show, you can toss me a couple bucks on Patreon. Just five bucks a month gives you every episode of this show ad-free. We have a community Discord, bunch of other community perks. We'd love to have you there. Head to patreon.com slash adamconover to sign up. And just to remind you, I am a touring stand-up comedian. If you want to see me do stand-up comedy in a city near you, head to adamconover.net for tickets and tour dates.

And now, without further ado, let's welcome today's incredible guests. They work at the Star Garden in North Hollywood, and they're members of Equity Strippers NoHo, and also serve on the bargaining committee for that union. Please welcome Lilith and Charlie. Lilith and Charlie, thank you so much for coming on the show thank you for having us so I had such an incredible experience

a couple weeks ago because I went to the grand reopening of the club where you two work I'm not a normal strip club visitor however

when union members say as an act of solidarity please come out to the strip club tonight I show up there were there were like

a hundred other union members there cheering for you guys. You guys were dancing to, you can't scare me, I'm stripping for the union. Yes. It was so inspiring and so much fun.

And you guys are now the first unionized strippers in America. By the way, is stripper the correct term? I want to make sure. Yes, we prefer stripper. Yeah. Okay, and that's on the literal button you're wearing, equity strippers. Yes, yes.

You guys are the first union strippers in America. That is so incredible. I think a lot of people don't think when they think of union jobs, they don't think of stripper first. Why do strippers deserve and need a union? Well, there are a lot of workplace conditions that often bosses who have money at the forefront of their mind will dismiss. And so I think that's like a widespread issue in the industry

and was the main thing that we decided to organize around was safety issues. And what kind of safety issues are you talking about? One of the policies that our management set was that if we had an issue with a customer and like if the customer was being too rough or was misbehaving in any way, that we were not allowed to confront them ourselves and we were not allowed to go straight to security to intervene on our behalf that we had to first go to management even if they were off-site which meant we would have to call them up what they would have to look at the footage and decide whether or not that was a severe enough instance for security and in the meantime the

person is still i don't know menacing you with a bat or whatever it is they're doing. Yeah, going to other dancers, doing what they did to us. And it was not like looking at the footage in the moment. It was like, we'll review tonight or never, essentially. Wow. And also, I think with stripping, your condition, like it's you looking out for you. That's kind of just how it goes. So I think strippers need a union because there's never, ever been someone looking out for you when you're in, like, situations such as these.

And also, we are the second unionized. The first was the Lusty Ladies. I wear that shirt. Wait, really? In the 90s, yeah. Oh, wow. So we're the only current. Yes.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay, respect to the Lusty Ladies. I'm wow. So we're the only current. Yes. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Respect to the lusty ladies. I'm sorry for getting it wrong. No worries. But you said as a stripper, you're looking out for yourself, except you guys are not looking out for yourselves. You're looking out for each other.

Yeah. Yes. And so I assume maybe you mean that's a little bit unusual in this world. How did, tell me the story. How did you, you know, how did you meet each other and, you know, went on the job? How did you like develop that union consciousness? What was the, how did you uh you know how did you meet each other and you know went on the job how did you like develop that union consciousness what was the how did it happen well there was three major strikes that led us through the real strike um the the first the third was already described by lilith but the first was there is a collection of unfair firings um so one of us was

feeling threatened by a customer and approached security and security made a horrible response about it and just kind of threw it on the stripper for like putting herself in a situation, whatever. And then they blamed her for it. A hundred percent. And then they fired her for bringing up the issue, which was absolutely insane. And then the second firing was I was on stage dancing and then a customer was recording, which is obviously not allowed. Yeah. And another stripper had to intervene because obviously security wasn't. And she walked over and she told him like, hey, you can't record in here. He was drunk, made a scene, and then she got fired for starting drama. here he was drunk made a scene and then she got fired for starting drama so those were the first two strikes it was really scary and all of us were like whoa and i think that's when like the union consciousness started building of us like oh if we are if we need to protect ourselves it's only through each other and then the third thing was when we were told we couldn't go to security anymore as if they were there before so you mean these are these are the three strikes in in that

these are the bad things management did that developed your consciousness. But this eventually led to you actually going on strike. Yeah, and also I think my first day at Stargarden, I was approached by one of our lovely dancers, Wicked, and she told me right off the bat, management does not have your back, security does not have your back.

If something happens to you, you come to me and I will help you deal with it. Yeah, so there already was this culture of like looking out for each other for sure and with stripping a lot of people assume that it's like girls are always against each other like you're not friends in the club it's like cutthroat and i think that's real in some situations but for my experience dancing for the past few years it's always been like nothing but a community where you are like looking out for each other and vetting people together. And it really is like what you're saying with Wicked. It's just, you know, like we have to look out for each other.

Yeah. Yeah. Tell me more a little a little bit more about like what it's like to do the job, because it's a job that is not taken seriously or given a lot of respect by a lot of people but it's also i believe every job should be possible to do with dignity and i assume that you there must be things you enjoy about the job right like you must take pride in your work absolutely so tell me just tell me a little bit about that yeah when i explain stripping i explain it first and foremost as a sales job which i think and it's there are there are strippers who create courses on sales and like people will like take

courses on sales because you are selling lap dances as like that is your main source of income private rooms and obviously there's a big big performance component of it on stage. But most, I would say like 90% of the job, you're just talking to people and getting to know people and getting, trying to get some kind of tips or compensation or make some sales. Yeah. I think the job is really special in like an anthropological way because you get to see a very honest and vulnerable version of someone which is like not something you see all the time at any regular bar um and it besides from being sales it's just like i've learned how to talk to people in a brand new way in like a very like i feel better in every other job interview i've ever had because being a stripper has like prepped me how to hold a conversation and like you know just my communication skills are like way way further than I ever would have expected

because of this job and also you just learn so much about people and then there's this also like really fun performance aspect and you meet a lot of artists just like between dancers and also customers like there's it's a really creative and vulnerable space and putting those two things together can be really magical and you know if if the system is right it doesn't have to be unsafe you know it could just be magic and by the way i mean just based on uh the one night i went like you guys are incredible performers you're incredibly talented and very good at and it's like it the same pleasure you can take it watching anybody be great at something is really enjoyable. But yeah, you just said that like when it's run well, it can be not a bad thing.

I think people think strip club, they think CD. A lot of people think that they shouldn't even really exist, you know, or why? Like if you're a customer, there's something wrong with you. And I know a lot of that is because of how puritanical we are in this country and how badly we treat both those workers and those customers and those businesses um and so it sort of drives them into a seedy place but what is like just tell me more about the positive aspect like you have positive interactions with the customers you think they get something positive out of it absolutely um one thing it's funny my mother when she heard i was a stripper her fear was that

it would like make me hate men and it's actually done like quite the opposite like i feel like a greater compassion for men because a lot of the men that go to strip clubs are not getting therapy because they're discouraged to in society and you see like a really like beautiful vulnerable side to people and have really like deep existential conversations with people. So there is that really like big human component and also like intimacy and like touch and things that are not a lot of people don't have access to. So it's great to be able to like provide that for people and to make people feel desirable who might not in out in the real world for sure and when people think about strip clubs I think they only can imagine that intimacy intimacy exists in a physical way but it's like so emotional like I feel so close to my customers just when we talk for like two hours about like their life stories

and mine as well and it feels it's touching and like also like emotional and sad and that is like a therapy experience that is shared I think um and like coaching people through anything that is challenging it's like the environment to be in for a lot of people that don't have another outlet like what you're saying because just the way like society shames therapy for like masculinity and this is like a place to get access to having someone that like has no business listening to you in their underwear listen to you you know i think it's a really healing thing it's really heartwarming the way you put it i mean these are so these are folks who have a human need for intimacy for for touch for uh, for like a little sexual stimulation as well, right?

Just to maybe they don't have access to that in their lives. And they're paying for it. Sure, you're being paid for a service, but you care about it. You care about the service. You feel like you're doing a good thing for the folks. And it can be a positive exchange. Absolutely. I'd say more times than not, it really is.

Yeah. But in order for that positive interchange to happen it has to be like a safe place yes that is not exploiting the customers or you guys so what what are the other challenges like to that positive exchange that you experience on the job quotas i think can be something that inhibits like a positive a positive culture in the club. And this is something that Stargarden had enforced before we got to striking. But we needed to sell, I think it was $200 of lap dances a night.

And if you didn't, you would lose your job. And sometimes there's not enough people in the club to sell $200 or you're not feeling well. You just really don't want to and like everyone is well within their right to not you know do a service that they're not ready to do and um it creates um like a desperate and dangerous culture of being like please I really need this or else I'll lose my job yeah oh my god and also like there are known like tables of men at Stargarden because they wouldn't blacklist people who yeah knew them to be predators who would take advantage of you. So that's someone who you can't do a lap dance with safely.

Exactly. But you have a quota, so you're like, I got to go to somebody. Yes. Oh, that's an awful position to be in. And this is not unheard of. This is actually incredibly common throughout most clubs in California, at least. It costs a lot of money to be in. And this is not unheard of. This is actually incredibly common throughout most clubs in California, at least. It costs a lot of money

to be there and you can lose your job for not reaching whatever quota or house fee they have set. What do you mean it costs a lot of money to be there?

Like for the customer or for you? For us. So almost every club has a house fee and it can be anywhere between $40 and $200 just to work for the day or the night well you pay

to work every time and in most clubs you are not paid hourly california is kind of different in that um there was a law that was passed that um held management to um basically told them that strippers are classified as employees you do need to pay them an hourly wage which they retaliated against in many different ways. This is a law. Yes, in California. But in most parts of the world and in some clubs still that aren't complying with that law, they are not paying hourly and they are, in fact, having you pay to work there.

Or they'll treat you like an employee and maybe you will get an hourly, but you're expected to still pay them back with the house fee. So if you're making $50 with your hourly minimum wage, you're expected to pay maybe $200 to be there. And then they also will take a percentage of all of the dances that you sell. And it's different on every club because there's never been anyone before this to enforce any, any rules or laws. And yeah, it was a really challenging law that was passed because of the gloves. And so before the strike and before your union, how were you paid? You were paid for the dances and I assume for people throwing cash on the stage. That's your income.

But were you paid anything by the club at all? No. Yeah. So Star Garden, they took 50% of our live dances. Wow. And Star Garden didn't have a house fee. Right. And we were allowed to keep all of our tips.

Okay. So no house fee, just the quota. Got it. Okay. But still, they're taking a lot of money. They're also selling drinks and all of that. And I'm sure making plenty of money. But you guys are having a lot of trouble making a living. So tell me a little bit about, you know, what like that moment when you decided to let's wait, we could form a union.

I have to think a lot of strippers might not be their first thought. How about a union? So how did that idea come to you guys? Yeah. So we when we the three strikes that Charlie described once basically management came into the dressing room and made it very explicit what was and was not allowed on our parts when we were in an unsafe situation we felt that things were really grave and dire and that any of our jobs could be on the hook at any moment so we fast-tracked a safety petition to deliver to the bosses because we knew that under the nlra we would be protected and that um and we i think that it was we had a meeting about the petition and a week later we

delivered it yeah to the bosses and with your names on it yes yeah with like we had i think like 19 signatures and there were 24 dancers wow and so we delivered it to the bosses they told us okay if you if you don't feel safe you can not work tonight and so we counted that as a victory and they told us we'd be able to discuss the petition our next shift um which was on a saturday and we all came into work as usual and there was a security guard posted up front with a little red velvet rope saying if you're not on the list you're not allowed to come in and work and the only way to get on the list is to talk to the owner jenny and we all tried to call jenny and she did not answer our calls and they ghosted us from that day um until we settled yeah our so they tried to shut you out and prevent you from working because of the

petition it was a lockout for anyone who had signed that petition wow and that's how we lost our jobs wow and at this point were you working with anyone from a union or did like an organizer or a lawyer of any kind we were working with a non organization called Strippers United. And so we were working with an organizer there who goes by Stoney and a pro bono lawyer named Jordan Palmer. And both of them taught us everything we know. We also had some dancers who were very into labor rights and who had been dreaming of a union strip club forever. But they were for like the first three, four months, it was just the group of strippers, Jordan and Stoney. Like it was us against the world. And our lawyer was pulling the most incredible like strategic feats of lawyering all by herself while working.

She's a lawyer at Unite Here. So she was pulling like 80 hour work weeks to include our movement with her regular 40 hour work. But anyone from Unite Here, I mean, for folks who don't know, Unite Here represents hospitality workers, like really low wage folks. And they are such an incredible union that has so much power. Whenever I meet someone in labor from Unite Here, I'm like, oh, this person's a badass for sure. Yeah, they're the real deal. Yeah, 100 percent. Yeah.

Yeah. labor from unite here i'm like oh this person's a badass for sure yeah they're the real deal yeah 100 yeah yeah and i think with the the whole thing of us like all looking out for each other and ourselves is that you gotta you have to know your rights which is why a few of us were already like into organizing and understanding like how like our human rights and our work rights what they mean for us so it wasn't like we had never thought of this before because it's not there's no hr you know you have to like look out for yourself so people had taken this interest already um yeah and i think the final thing that just led us to the next phase was the there's always the the conversation

of like if you don't like it here just go to another club right but it's pretty standard at almost every club that you're going to be in some situation that is like unfavorable because you were like well if we go to another club the same thing is going to happen yeah so we might as well try to improve the place that we currently work because it's not like some of the great club out there to go to right and also like there we really did have a community at star garden of customers and of dancers that we wanted to preserve and make better. And Stargarden's been there for like 40 years. It's a staple of the neighborhood. It felt worth fighting for for us.

Tell me a little bit more about that community. Like there were customers who you enjoyed seeing. There's folks who you have a positive relationship with. There were good things about the workplace that you wanted to preserve. Absolutely. And also like Stargarden's like a cute dive bar where we were allowed to dance to whatever we wanted like it had like fun kitschy vibes and yeah like really loyal lovely customers

who once we went on strike joined us on the picket lines and were there every single weekend for eight months yes well you had customers at the picket line they, well, I'm used to going to the strip club, but now I'll go stand outside the strip club. Yeah. Because they're like, hey, we go to Stargarden for these strippers. We don't go in for your overpriced beer. A huge part of our strategy was proving that we are the club and there is no club without the strippers.

So being outside with our customers was not only perfect for us to be like wow these people are like our community but also i think it helped prove to star garden that like these people are only here because of us not because of the building that we're in so and it was amazing we ended up on our last picket before we were able to stop we had like a graduation night and we did like superlatives for all of like our supporters that would come out every week with like hot chocolate and pizza. And it was really, this community has gotten us exactly where we are today. That's so cool. Well, so tell me about the moment that you went on strike, they were locking you out. They said you could only

work if you didn't sign the petition. And so were they trying to bring it, like, did you go on strike at that moment or were they trying to bring in people to replace you? So there were probably about six. Well, I would say four dancers who were working at the club before the strike who continued working at the club. And just because our community doesn't respond well to like words like scab. So we've been calling them strike breaking workers sure um and so there were four and then they um continued to try to hire people while we were out on the sidewalk yeah so they were um still functioning with you know a fraction of the dancers they had before and and a fraction of the customers yeah we were driving out probably 90 percent of the

customers who were trying to go yes we had this cute little whiteboard every single night that we picketed. And it was always like a fun little cartoon on it, but it was like customers that love us and customers that don't. And that was pretty much, and it was like a different version of that depending on whatever theme we had that week. Yeah. And we were,

we were really, really good at driving customers away because it was kind of like the opposite of what we're paid to do in the club which is yeah you're paid to tell customers you should come in and buy lap dances yeah and now we're using the exact same skill set to be like you should not come in you should stay with us yeah you're like hey big boy don't cross the picket line exactly so people would like roll up in their cars and they put their windows down because we had a huge line of people outside with like posters whatever and we would like like strut on over into their like little windows with

our like tiny little like bikini costume outfit on we'd be like hey so this is like the only club in the country that's striking it would really mean a lot to me if you just went to another one yeah and we did that all the full eight months and that's just how it went so good on me yeah i'll let you know when i can dance again and just do that like oh honey yeah of course whatever you want you tell me where to go you just like swerve away really fast and we like mark the board it was a party i love it i love it so and that's that is a really effective picket line because you're turning people away. And you've got a federal right to do it. Yeah.

It's funny, too, because we had a lot of themed nights on the picket line. And I think we realized really quickly that there were certain themes that did not get strip club customers to stop. We did a daddy issues theme where we all dressed like dads. Yeah. And we had a grill. I think you need a little something sexy. Like we did like a daddy issues theme where we all dressed like dads. Yeah. Like we had a grill. Like that was not like you. I think you need a little something. Something.

Like the Braveheart night didn't turn people away. Yeah. That's not like what daddy culture is about. No. Dressing like an actual dad. No. This isn't what I wanted. Yeah.

Not at all. But also the themes were a really important part of our strike that kept people coming out. Because one, everyone in LA loves an outfit. They love a reason to get dressed up. So it was a smart strategic move for us. And also it kept our momentum going. Because there were so many weeks where we were like, I can't keep doing this. I want a job.

I want to work and make money. And then we were like, ooh, but we're going to have a club kids theme so like i don't want to miss that yeah like it really kept us going yeah one of our favorite themes was we um ended up um submitting complaints to osha and we all um yeah we had like a whole delegation show up to the office and we drop it off and then we ended up like a week later on the picket line dressing up as our various OSHA violations. So we had someone who was like dressed up as like the hole in the stage. Yeah. Or like broken glass on the floor.

Yeah. I think we went as roaches or something. Yeah, I went as a bed bug. Yeah, bed bug there was. Yeah. So you guys are using every trick in the book from a labor law perspective. Like you're not just picketing and striking. You are, I assume you're like filing unfair labor practices.

Oh yeah, so many. And going to the federal government and doing all those sorts of things. At this point, are you working with Actors' Equity? That's the union that you ended up joining, right? I think, yeah, we were on our own, I think, until like summer. so it was a few months on our own and then we made the connection with equity and like from the get-go from our first meeting with them we were like oh they get it yeah yeah and they yeah we share a lot of really similar stage conditions at least to what actors equity contracts already have for like no filming on stage and like understanding like audience to performer guidelines so that was just like one step in the right direction already

yeah i was gonna ask because equity uh look i'm i am not super familiar with the union but i know actors in new york i know it's the broadway union etc right um and yeah i would have i would have wondered oh is there a little bit of a cultural thing for them to learn? But they were they were right on board with it immediately. Yeah. And I think that what was so important to us is they understood the ways that we were like them and like the performers they already cover. And then they also were very cognizant of the ways that we are unlike the performers they cover. And they approached us with a willingness to learn. And like they wanted to know yeah what is

the proper vocabulary to use like do you like to be called strippers and have encouraged their member base to like get on board with that it's been so lovely and it's been the loveliest to see them like spearhead the the bargaining oh my god it's beautiful we love that well let's get to that because you guys won this strike and i want to learn exactly how you did it but we got to take a really quick break we'll be right back with more charlie and lilith from noho strippers union okay we're back with charlie and lilith from equity strippers noho uh so you guys were on strike for how long and what was the moment in which you won we were on strike i think for a total of 15 months 15 months yes that is so long

going without work that is very difficult how was that for you we picketed for only eight months yes but the strike continued without work for 15 and we luckily we um had a strike fund from that our community would um donate to so that was really helpful wow in staying afloat instead of tossing dollar bills out of the stage they're like tossing them into a gofundme however there were luckily so many kind souls who did it anyway i mean they're like look i just love giving you girls money. Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. And we love them for that. Well, so what happened to the club during this time? So they actually ended up filing for bankruptcy. Wow. So we had our first union election in November of 2023, where none of our ballots were opened because the club contested um all of them saying we weren't employees that we were just like leasing their space and um after that point they filed for bankruptcy as like a union busting tactic and they were

trying to it was chapter 11 bankruptcy where um basically basically they just reassigned their assets and they were trying to convert Stargarden into a pool hall. Which is hilarious. That has no dancers as a way to not hire us back. Yeah. Which is so good. If there's no jobs for them to return to, guess they can't work here anymore. And obviously the NLRB saw right through that. Yeah. And obviously the NLRB saw right through that. And we ended up being a part of forcing them into Chapter 9 bankruptcy, which is like full liquidation.

And we had an NLRB hearing coming up, which would deal with the ULPs we filed and also would deal with our employee status and whether or not our ballots in our union election should be allowed to be opened and like the weekend before that hearing was happening um they the club was like we don't want to do that hearing like so they um we had settlement meetings with them and we ended up settling they folded they said we, you guys win, we will settle over those issues. And they ended up being forced to recognize the union? Yep. Yeah, so they basically removed their contestations and were like, you can open their ballots. And then they said, we will put money into reopening the club as long as we can get out of bankruptcy. And we will hire back everyone that was locked out. And that's the process that you were there for.

Yeah, that was the first and that's the process that you were there for yeah that was the first night that you guys were open but it didn't seem like everything was hunky-dory this club because there was a 40 cover charge to get in whereas you guys told me that it was previously free to get in yes and this was the craziest part would, there was no ATM in the club and they wouldn't make change at the bar. So there are all these people with 20s going, I want to do the thing. I want to throw the money. I'm at the strip club, but I can't. I threw a 20 or two because I ran out of singles.

So it seems like they're not very happy about being back in business with y'all. No, not at all. So what's going on? So basically in early parts of bargaining has been negotiating the terms of reopening. And we just did not have a lot of movement with them, like just specifically in that area. And so we kind of just had to allow them to have their managerial rights and to run the club as they see fit until we're able to lock down a true union contract. So we're at the mercy a little bit for the time being of these tactics they're using. But we've been working in the club since it's been open and there have been no customers. And it's been really funny to see customers who know nothing about us and what's happening to

walk in and be like what in god's name is this strip club like so we're definitely having we're we're doing the best we can and having like the best energy and having fun is actually the words that i'm looking for because the only thing that i think has gotten through to them is that we are still the club and we will still continuously have a good time no matter what they do. So I think we showed them with reopening of how many people came out for us. And even though there was a $40 cover and yeah, so we're making light as light as we can of all of the new rules that are continuously being placed. And this is like every shift,

there's at least some new rule that is now being imposed on us. So we're having fun. We're doing a lot of bits. Yeah. Since you were in there, some rules that have come up are we're not allowed to go past

like the black lines on the stage. At any moment on stage. Which is like most of the stage. Okay. And there's just like no touching of anyone whatsoever. Anywhere in the club. And. But what about lap dances?

You said that's like the main, you can't do that? I'm pretty positive if we were to be giving lap dances, which basically at this moment, they've changed the lap dance rules so that the first $200 you make in lap dance, they keep all of that money. Which is worse than it was previously. But I'm pretty sure they would just have us do a little air moment in front of someone. But I don't, okay, I don't understand

because why have a strip club, like if they're vindictive and they're mean and they're trying to punish you for exercising your legal rights under federal labor law and exercising them well, sure. But these are also punishing themselves as a strip club. Yeah, 100%. So what is the point of this? I think that spite just weighs a little heavier on their list than, like good money sense yeah at the moment i hope that will change and that you know this is reminding me a little bit of a strike that i'm

involved in yeah there's a lot there you know all all workers are sort of you know engaged in the same struggle right but like there is a real commonality here where it's like these companies i mean there was just a news report that like Warner Brothers has lost like hundreds of millions of dollars because of how long the strike has because of how long they've dragged out the strike whereas the demands would be like 40 million dollars we all want to go back to work

you know and it would be cheaper for them to work but they are they are mean and angry and incompetent and can't figure out how to make a deal that would benefit them and everybody else. It seems like a similar, we're talking about David Zaslav

versus just some, you know, a couple idiots who own a strip club. Vast differences in wealth here, but the same problems. Absolutely, yeah. And I feel like there's a bunch of great one-liners that have carried us through this movement, including this could have been an email.

Like, we can end this whenever you want. Yeah, so they're definitely more interested in making sure that we and our customers are feeling like the negative effects of what they're doing more than having a successful club, which is crazy. To put into context what's going on

with the lap dances, we would make, if we sold a crazy amount like 800 of lap dances we would only be taking home 300 wow so that's like that's a big night is 800 yeah yeah so it's like it's a crazy new role to put on and there's just a new role every night we can't touch ourselves on stage that That's the one I forgot. You can't touch yourself? No, we're having a lot of fun. Yeah, we're just like miming, grabbing our boobs and stuff. What?

Yeah. I know. You're a stripper. I know. You can't grab your own boobs. I thought that was the whole job. Listen. Yeah, it is.

We thought so too. And I will say like the amount of performance art that has emerged from these new rules is truly remarkable. Charm. Charm is an icon. One of her performances, she wore a dog collar and, like, chained herself to the pole so that she wouldn't go outside the lines. Yeah.

It was insane. She also did this weekend this incredible mime act where she like couldn't leave the lines and she had like her little hat to get money but no one could throw far enough to get into the hat because you're so far away from the tip rail and it was iconic so again it's the bits the bits are getting us through and steve and jenny the managers like their eyes are glued on the tv like they will not look at us and it it's, that, there's some joy. There is some joy in that. There is some.

But, I mean, why even? Right. Why, like, you guys said they were talking about turning it into a pool hall or whatever. I'm like, if they want to not run a strip club that badly, why even have it be open? Like, why not concede to you and just make more money? That's the real question. Yeah, the ATM question, yeah. Yeah.

and just make more money? That's the real question. Yeah, the age-old question, yeah. Yeah, they also, as far as the ATM, like they got rid of it. It was there beforehand, but they got rid of that because they don't want to see us being as successful as them.

So I think as long as no one's making money, they're happy, but we're crafty. This goes to show that a lot of times with bosses, when they resist a union it's not because of the money it's because of the power and it's emotional

it's I don't want hold on a second these people who work for me get to tell me what to do or they have

any power at all I have to see them as a partner I have to treat them with respect no that's it I'm in charge and then they want to keep throwing their weight around it's like this bizarre I have to see them as a partner. I have to treat them with respect. No. That's it. Yes.

I'm in charge. And then they want to keep throwing their weight around. It's like this bizarre dominance psychology. Yeah. We see that with the management rights because they keep, that's the one thing that we at this moment can't like change. That's like well within their rights to make up their rules. So on top of new rules all the time to express their like

dominancy they also are coming up with really fun and creative ways to turn away our supporters which I love two of my customers this weekend got turned away because security or Steve who was acting as security so that he didn't like the way that they looked at him and i think that's hilarious which like that's not a protected class no but like it's shitty it's shitty yeah so yeah i mean that's his prerogative but it it sucks it sucks it's just again that whole like i'm the boss and i need to do whatever i can to maintain boss mentality to exercise power and exploit my workers yeah but no But, nope. Well, so you guys won, in the process of forming a union, there's like two big victories you need to win.

And you won the first one, which is forming the union and getting recognized under labor law, so now they have to bargain with you. Yes. But that can sometimes be, even though it took you 15 months, it can sometimes be the easier battle

compared to the second victory you need to win, which is winning the contract. Yes. Which is where you get all the better wages or working conditions or safety, whatever. Actually, that's not true because sometimes just fighting will cause the company, you know, in many cases to make improvements. If they show that you're fighting, they'll try to sweeten the deal so that you're less angry. But in your case, you really do need to win this contract. So what is, you're in that part of it now. Tell me about that and how are you battling to win that contract from them? It's grueling, first of all.

It's hard. Yeah. I think we're hoping it will be helpful that we've shown them already what a strike would be like for them. Yeah. So that it would not have to come to that a second time. Because you could go on strike again if you had to. Yeah. Absolutely.

But obviously you don't want to yes it would be so ideal to just come to some kind of agreement that we're all happy with yep um but yeah we've been in bargaining now for like three months or so and it's something it is definitely hard i will say it's been really empowering to be able to have our voices heard in the way that our workplaces run and to see our lead negotiator who with actors equity just completely like give the most like beautiful speeches on our behalf like just demanding our respect that's been incredible but yeah it's definitely a lot a, we have big hurdles ahead of us. Yeah, absolutely. Have you been in the room like for the negotiations? What is that like?

Yeah, we're both on the bargaining committee. Yeah. So for every bargaining session, it's all on Zoom. There is one that was in person, which was wild. But we get to all watch our lawyers do this very passionate and beautifully well-spoken conversation with their lawyers. And it really,

one makes me feel like Actors' Equity is here for us in a way that I didn't see until I started seeing this. So that's huge. And also just getting to tell them this is how to run a business and we know it because obviously the employees tell them like this is how to run a business. And we know it because obviously the employees will always know the better way to run the business.

Yeah. So getting those things out, even if they're not being heard, it feels good to be able to express it to them. Yeah. For example, like a cover charge. Yeah. Yeah. About the cover charge. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I hear that so much in other you know service industry unionization jobs are happening like uh starbucks workers for instance when they're unionizing it's often about like hey we know how to run the the shop because we're here every day like you should run it this way like we're just trying to make it run better right um and like that that sort of like using that knowledge that the workers have to try to benefit everybody, customers, management, and employees included. Yeah.

And this goes back to what I was saying before about the quotas and how it creates this like really dangerous and uncomfortable environment. It's like we know what it feels like to be in that and they only know what it feels like to profit off of that. So like working, proposing to them what it could be like if we all were in an equitable system that like, well, where we felt safe and protected and, you know, we can move forward and make them rich while we also are making money would be like our dream. And I feel like we're working together for a future where hopefully we can it can be equitable for all of us. together for a future where hopefully we can it can be equitable for all of us so it it but you're just dealing with just a couple assholes right who who are i'm not sure those are my words i know you're bargaining with these folks maybe you don't want to call them names but you know uh you are sort of relying on a couple of people who just randomly own a strip club into like being smart business people. Like reasonable humans. Yeah.

Reasonable is actually the much better word. Yeah. Yeah. We are expecting a lot. And like so many strip club owners don't understand like the power in incentivizing versus penalizing. Yeah. penalizing yeah like if there was a lap dance like percentage set up where like you would receive more money the more lap dances you give and the more money you make the club then they would see how much more effective that is immediately rather than you can lose your job from not selling enough

yeah yeah i i imagine there must be somewhere in amer America like like well-run strip clubs that are like done in sort of a positive way. I'm sure there is. I've danced in a few different cities in a few different states. And, you know, I think every single club could use a lot of work. Of course, some of them do have incentive programs where, like, if you work three days in a row, maybe your fourth day, they'll give you half off on your house fee. But like it takes a lot for a club to get to that point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that talking about these owners that I find really inspiring about what you're doing is you are bringing the full weight of labor law. Like you have good union lawyers who are, that's an unfair labor practice. You can't do that. We're taking you to OSHA that we're taking you to osha we're taking you to the

nlrb which adjudicates labor decisions um and these are just again a couple people who own a local strip club like you're not you're not up against you know amazon or starbucks one of these big companies that bring in the big interunion law firm these are like you know some local business owners and so but you are fighting for your rights in exactly the the same way and like taking it to them they must be a little bit stunned because i mean they i would imagine they they would not have expected to be talking to a lawyer from actors equity or to be talking to unionized i think they still think that they can just wait us out yeah yeah that's where they're at yeah and i think that like their perception of strippers is like a big part of that.

I think that they completely underestimated us. Yeah. I mean, what do they think of strippers? Like. I think that they just like didn't expect us to be resourceful or like have like good thoughts just generally. But yeah, I think actors equity probably stunned them and then the nlrb was very just like was very involved in our case and was very incredible and i did yeah and so i don't

think that they expected yeah it to get to a federal level well i think a lot of it again is the cultural perception of strippers and of the job that you do. People think it's not a job that any, you know, any decent person or intelligent person or powerful person, this is just a degraded job for people who aren't worth anything. And so they don't expect those folks to stand up and have power and be smart and committed and strategic. I think what they don't realize is that, I would say a good majority of

all strippers have other jobs, but they're in fields that just don't pay well. Like when you're an assistant or you're doing anything creative, like music, fashion, art, whatever, all of those things are not like high paying jobs when you're starting off. So it's always for a lot of people, it's just supplemental income, which means a lot of people have a lot of work experience coming into clubs that they just wouldn't that club owners don't expect you to have. Right. So they think that you don't understand what it means to have like a labor to have employee rights. Right. But like most people have had at least a few experiences where they've been told like what their rights are.

So that's a big part of their perception. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about the early days, because this thing we skipped that I want to make sure we talked about. You know, one of the most important early steps in unionizing is talking to your co-workers, getting everybody on board, finding out what everybody needs, doing that basic organizing. And just tell me about that step when you were first getting started, like how did that, how did that go and how did you approach it? I think the first time we discussed organizing was when, with the first firing of this dancer Reagan,

because she was just such a like emblematic part of star garden. She had so many like big customers who brought in a lot of money. So it really felt like, Oh, if, if she is not safe and her job is not safe, then we are not either. And so that's when discussions about like our protections and what we could do and how the law could help us started. we very fortunately had a little Instagram group chat that was just to discuss, you know, random work things that very quickly became a union organizing group chat. Got it.

So this feels like this is pretty easy. You didn't have to like go and really bend people's ears and go think about it. You were all in a group chat and you were going like, let's fucking get them. Yeah, there was only, I think, 24 dancers total. And also the whole, our entire movement, I think the word that could be used is urgency. Like, we had maybe a week from when Reagan had gotten fired to when Selena got fired.

And we were like, no one is safe. And then we were like, all right, petition, let's go, go, go, go, go. And then strike. And it was just so quick that there wasn't, like, this big, like, hey, like, have you ever heard of unionization? Like, do you know what you could be protected for? And, like like it just didn't happen like that because we didn't have a grace period yeah i will say that like one of the in our earliest discussions um one the documentary live girls live girls unite live nude girls unite about the lusty lady unionization in the 90s that was mentioned as just like a touch point to be like

if you're afraid of the prospect of us as strippers unionizing like look at this and just maybe get inspired and i watched that documentary and was absolutely like oh i get it now like i see how this could be something like a feasible path for us and we were really lucky to have had other other strikes across america within strip clubs and also um the leslie ladies to kind of guide us in everything that we were doing so we're definitely not the first um and yeah it feels powerful to know that like the quote-unquote sisterhood of like strippers across the world exercising their rights exists and yeah we got to follow footsteps that That is so cool. And do you see, you guys have gotten so much press.

You've had so much support from the labor movement. Are you starting to see that expand? Are there folks considering this another area? Is equity going to try to expand to more strip clubs and cover more workers? Already has. Yeah. Really?

There's a club in Portland called Magic Tavern. I knew Portland would be next. I know, right? It's pretty obvious. Naturally. Yes. Yeah, there's a club in Portland called Magic Tavern. I knew Portland would be next. I know, right? Naturally. Yeah, they just like had their vote count and it was mail-in ballots. So I think that we should have the results of that soon. That's amazing. We all, a few of us like went up to Portland and supported them on their first picket.

Like it's been very beautiful to see because I think like our dream was unionizing our club but also hoping that there would be other workers who decide that a union is the best thing for their club and that they we could have like forged a path for them to make it a little easier so to see that happen yeah it's like yeah i think the original goal was once we had unionized and it was successful to be a resource to literally any dancer ever being like hey this thing happened at work what are my protections and like what's the next step so to be able to do that but then to see it and how quickly magic tavern was able to get to their union like election is huge because it took us how many months like uh eight like nine like we had a baby yeah yeah literally that's a baby yeah and by the way i believe portland is a big strip club town so if one place

flips a whole bunch are gonna go next absolutely that is the hope i bet and what you said about having the model is so important to see that other people have done it you know i i'm a stand-up comic there's no stand-up comedy union uh anywhere in america um but i just last year read a wonderful book called i'm dying up here which is about the attempt to stand-up comics in the 70s try to unionize the comedy store which is famous club still there it at the time did not pay and i i knew that comics oh they went on strike i thought they just like you know held up picket signs and whatever they actually did form a real union they like filed with the nlrb and all that they went on strike um you know jay leno was on the picket line gary shandling crossed the picket there's all these big hollywood stories about it but um they're

eventually found in the 70s that they could not be a union because they were they were found to be contractors but just seeing that oh hold on a second stand-up comics at one point did do this at a particular club made me go I mean they could again

like I don't know if I'm the one to make it happen or anything like I'm I don't work at a club like that regularly but

just like seeing the example can really inspire yeah people and I don't know just seeing you guys do this made me start thinking again about like But just like seeing the example can really inspire people. And I don't know, just seeing you guys do this made me start thinking again about like, there's a lot of similarities between stand-up comedy and stripping, to be quite honest. Maybe we should think about it. Yeah.

And I think that a lot of people in other parts of the country do not believe that they as strippers can unionize because we live in California where there is this law that just demands that we be classified as employees but there are you know standards in the from the nlrb that will mean that you should be classified as an employee and i think that in i don't think magic tavern is an employee status club but they are managed like employees and they are scheduled like employees and there are all these different um thresholds that they do meet to be able to unionize. Yeah.

If you're an independent contractor as a comedian but you're on a strict schedule or club takes fees from you in any way or photos, house fees, whatever, then you are being treated like an employee. Therefore, you're able to unionize. Got it. Yeah. got it yeah and there's it's so often that the boss will tell you oh you can't be in the union because you are you're a contractor or you're a stripper or whatever um that happens a lot in the entertainment industry people say oh uh pas can't unionize anybody with producer in their title can't unionize stuff like that yeah it's not true it's not true they just say that in order to make you think oh it's i don't know there's law somewhere. But like if you actually try to do it and petition, you could be found as you guys were to be like, no, you're eligible.

Right. Yeah. I mean, what you guys are doing is so inspiring. What other wins have happened in the time that you've been doing this campaign? So there is a few wins that happened throughout this the past 18 months um that are really important the first thing is that everything we complained about to osha and all the complaints that we had filed were fixed so when we came back to the club it was like wow our voices and the effort we put in there there's there's some outcome there's a new pole a new stage um there's air conditioning wow it wasn't air conditioned before? not in our dressing room which is like closet size so now there is a vent on the ceiling

which is big so it is cool it was one of the first times in this movement after the union election that I was like wow when the system works it really works so that was like a motivating thing and then also I think our biggest win is that Selena, she is one of the dancers in our strike.

And she is undocumented. And through the union, she was able to get her work authorization. Wow. Yeah. That's incredible. It's huge. So even though you guys haven't won a contract yet, just by doing this, you have really improved conditions for yourselves and for the people that you work with. Absolutely.

Yeah. And I think something that she has been talking about is that a lot of undocumented folks are scared of any sort of government system because they're in constant fear of being deported. But at no point throughout this movement did that fear have to follow her because she knew that the union would be able to protect her and it has. So it is really, really amazing to show that for strippers and for anyone that feels like the unionization is something that's not available to them. It can be. Yeah, it's conditional, but it exists. And yeah, that's a really huge, huge one for us. That's amazing.

And I mean, just again, talking about the cultural perception of strippers in America and your own opinion about it. Have you seen this process that you've gone through change the way people think about what you do or the way you think about what you do in terms of that consciousness? Yeah. Think about what you do, you know, in terms of in terms of that consciousness. Yeah. Yeah. I think being in the mainstream and having stripping talked about on just like the same level as other workplaces has definitely opened people's minds to it. And I think hopefully has helped with the stigma a little bit. Yeah.

I think with equity, having people in equity recognize that we're also performers. Like we are all just playing a part, a role. We have our own characters and names. And I think that's a big thing that helped me understand that I'm a performer and I can claim that. So that's big. And also we do still get a ton of haters and I love them all. They're very funny and silly and they say quippier things than anyone could ever come up with like what what's the quip what's the best quippy hate you've ever heard there's so much we like we get i like at first was very offended by them and then i saw they all use the same

one-liners and i was like they're not even original they're just copy pasting yeah they're like your instagram or whatever yeah they're like this must be the day shift crowd or like monday the monday crowd but what Monday, the Monday crowd. But what they don't understand is that like stripping is you have to get into the role. So obviously, because they don't see it as a job. So when we're not like working, we're not going to look like your image of stripper, you know? Right.

Like mostly because we're wearing freaking clothing. Yeah. And like daylight is not very forgiving in the way that club lights are. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. Right. It's just like when actors show up to the picket line and they're like baseball captain their sunglasses and they're like exactly they don't look like they're in the marvel movie yeah right yes exactly but yeah i mean just just like this is a whole form of work that is so often not just not thought of as work it's not thought thought of at all. And, you know, I mean, there's the mantra of all forms of sex work are work. And this is, you know, you guys are demonstrating that

in such a mainstream way, you know, that is, I think, just gonna ripple out and out and out. So what I love most about your story is that, you know, this is a story of you guys looking around, unionizing your own workplace. For the folks out there who want to unionize their own workplaces, like, what do you suggest as the first couple steps, you know? Like, how do you, what do you want people to know about how they can do it, too? I feel like the first step is just to complain.

No, it really is. Yeah. Compl yeah to each other too exactly just to like build those relationships with your co-workers and to just plant the seeds of oh so we're all not happy with this one specific thing or multiple specific things and then from there um asking the question okay well can we do something about it and i think that it's probably scary especially in a workplace like a strip club yeah where there's not a ton of awareness about things like unions to just like hurl out right out of the gates like we should unionize um because strikes are horrifying and grueling and not a thing you want to be the top of mind so just like filming or just creating those relationships with your co-workers and being like i care about you you care about me how can we make

things better yeah and specifically off of that is understanding like where all of your co-workers are coming from like ask them about their families and like what their situation outside of work is so that you know how much space they have to give and I think that's something we got lucky about because like being in a strip club you're already in like this really fun vulnerable environment so you talk all the time about like you know like what you have going on and everything so understanding where your co-workers are coming from and what they might need specifically is like a really conscious way to move forward a movement to know like okay like this person is here for this but just because they're not participating doesn't mean they're not about it they just like can't

participate right now yeah so just checking in with everyone when you're having those first complaint conversations and like what's the biggest issue to you and like dealing with those conversations yeah especially if you're in a workplace where like i think that like if if as a white person like you might have a completely different experience in a workplace than a worker of color so just like being able to give over the mic and be like yes what is your experience and not like just existing in your own vacuum and being like assuming that whatever your issues are like all of the issues yeah just taking yourself out of whatever your your issues are to hear about the rest issues yeah just taking yourself out of whatever your your

issues are to hear about the rest of your workers i think is will help you move forward and also don't listen to your bosses like what you were saying before about how they'll lie they love to lie because they can and like i'm a liar too i love it but like don't don't listen to your bosses because they'll lie about what's within your rights i think yeah just like planting the seeds of like potential tactics that management could use if they hear catch wind that you're you're organizing yeah and also you'll be protected so like if hopefully you will be protected but retaliation will could absolutely happen but like don't let that be the the fear factor because if your community is strong the way that ours was, we were there for each other. And we're like, all right, this person got fired. Now we're all going to deliver this petition. So like, once you have that community understanding that retaliation, if it does happen, it's not the end. Like, that's just the beginning. And you have a lot to work off of from that point. that point. That's incredible. I mean, the emphasis on community is so important. And the way that you say, you don't need to open with, hey, guys, I think we should start a union. In fact, that's a

mistake I think a lot of workplace organizers make is the first thing, hey, guys, I think we should start a union. Here's what we should do. And the first thing you do is you talk to your co-workers and you say, hey, we're a community. I care about you. What are your problems? You care about me. And regardless of what organization under know, what, what organization under labor law you put together, that's what a union is, is that community of workers caring for each other. You guys already had that. A lot of workplaces do too, but you can build that in any workplace. And then once you've got that community, then you could decide, Hey guys, do we want to talk to a labor lawyer or what do we want to do? But it's that, that community of

workers looking out for each other. That is what the difference and you can build that no matter where you are yeah yeah absolutely and writing a petition together even if you never even deliver it that is something that is so bonding for a community just what are the things that we're not okay with yeah and putting it down on paper i think is a really like oof we did something that's a bonding moment so i think that's also a really good like once the conversation has been brought up just get to the petition because that'll help yeah it helped us i think like one per misconception about like our group too is that we like want to be like conquistadors for the union and like unionize every single single strip club in the country and i do think it's worth noting that

like a union is a very personal thing that the workers at this one specific workplace can or may or may not choose to to join so it's it's definitely on a personal basis of what you think your workplace needs yeah it's cool that we made this as an option, but we're not, there's no intention for us to like turn every club into a union club. It's more of like, if that is something that you were looking for,

let's make it available. Yeah. And we want to help. Yeah. That's incredible. Well, I've said enough about how inspired I am

by what you guys are doing. If people want to follow you, where can they find you? How can people support your work? Sure. Our Instagram is at equitystrippersnoho. That's also our website. We have a donor box that we're using as our solidarity fund right now.

So you can definitely donate there if you'd like to. And also, if you're in L.A., come to the club. It is $40 and a one-drink minimum, but it helps us to have people in there complaining to management. And also, we love to hang out. So come through. And hopefully it won't be $40 for Michelle. They might see the light.

We'll see. I hope for that for you. Best of luck in your contract negotiation. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on the show to talk to me about it. Thank you for having us. Well, thank you once again to Lilith and Charlie for coming on the show.

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Thank you so much. If you want to find me online, you can do so at adamconover.net or at Adam Conover wherever you get your social media. Thank you so much for watching and we'll see you next week on Factually. That was a HateGum Podcast.