Fairway Rollin' - Alan Shipnuck and Matt Ginella on Breaking New Ground in Golf Media

Episode Date: March 30, 2021

House and Hubbard discuss the results of the WGC-Dell Match Play event, their final predictions leading into the Masters, and what can be expected for the top players (01:35). They are then joined by Alan Shipnuck and Matt Ginella of the Fire Pit Collective to talk about breaking into the golf media space and how their past experience in sports media can help them blaze a new trail (24:37). Host: Joe House and Nathan Hubbard Guest: Alan Shipnuck and Matt Ginella Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

to this golf podcast, unlike any other. What a time of year. My birdie buddies, we've done it. We're back. This is Fairway Roll. Golf podcast on the Wriga Podcast Network. I am your starter. Joe House alongside my partner in crime, our correspondent on the ground, the PGA

tour of Fisio Nato himself. Nathan Hubbard, today, my par saving pals, a four ball. Nate Dogg and I will recap what went down in Austin, Texas. It was really fun to look at Austin, Texas for several days. That golf course is very cool. And then we have two OGs from the Gulf Media World. We're talking to Alan Shipnuck and Matt Janella, who have a new media venture.

they have kicked off and we are super psyched to talk to those dudes. So Nate Dogg and I out for the front nine as a two ball. We'll bring those boys on, make it a four ball for the back as the vodka soda's come out. And let's just throw a peg in the ground

and try and hit one straight out there. Nate Dogg, what's happening? Everybody loves matchplay until all the guys run out of gas on Sunday House. Well, there's a few things to say about that match play event. And I, for the most part, enjoyed it.

But it suffers from some structural infirmities that we will get into. It lacked because of the sheer endurance contest aspects of it. Good shots. It lacked good shots. And the real drama, we caught some drama on the opposite field. event. We had the dead mother himself, Joel Damon down at Punta Kana

in the Dominican Republic win his first PGA tour event in the history of his participation in PGA tour events, one out of 111. But you know what? One is all that matters,

right? And he's going to celebrate it like it's going to be his last. Let's root for him that it not be his his last, and by that, I mean, let's root for him to survive the next couple weeks. Well, Joel is a guy, he's speaking of a survivor. He is a survivor. He's a cancer survivor himself. It's claimed members of his family. So this is a guy who has incredible perspective. And it's that perspective that's allowed him to persevere. He's, look, no joke, he's been playing like

shit. Seven of eight cuts or whatever, he's missed. You know, he was, he's been in my basement more often than he's been in the top 25 this year. Which means once. Twice. Twice. Yeah, he's been drunk in my basement twice. And yet, you know, the thing that I have talked to Joel about before is how his game feels in the wind. He loves the wind. The wind doesn't bother him at all because he feels like his trajectory is low enough that he's unaffected by it. And sure enough, he wakes up Sunday

in a three club wind with a tie for the lead and coming down the stretch there on the back nine, it was just a war of attrition. I mean, I was texting with my brother who was in the hospital

with a two-day-old baby girl. Oh, congrats to homeless hubs. Watching it happened. I said, is there any way? Like, he's got to make a birdie on the back, doesn't he? And he was like, nobody's going to make a birdie on these last six holes. It's too windy. This is going to be about survival.

And the one guy who almost did was compost. And my heart broke for him because he really has fought hard in the event in Puerto Rico in this place, which is his home away from home. That guy's going to win one of these events in Latin America soon. That was an absolute pure expression of the. agony of defeat, his put on 18, touching so much of the whole, having exactly the right trajectory line speed to fall right in and for whatever reason the golf gods kept it out, except for we kind of know the reason if you're like us, big sappy suckers who believe in karma

and, you know, justice in the universe. The beauty of Damon's win was the reaction afterwards. It was just great. And all of the pure emotion, all genuine, and it was extended, right? It's exactly what you might anticipate from somebody who's worked super, super, super hard and sacrificed immensely to reach a goal and been at the very, very bottom. But it's one thing to sort of have in your brain, this is probably what it might look like. And then a whole other thing to just experience it alongside. him be in that authentic moment with him. And it just felt great. It was a great, you know, 10 minutes. You saw the three of them. It's rare you see the wife and the caddy and the player all in a

three-person embrace. But they really are a team. I mean, Lana is the one, she's an incredible cook. And when they're staying in houses with other families, she's the one who's making the food. And she's the one who made a whole lot of sacrifices so that Joel could get out and play. And speaking of Sacrifice, Gino has done that, his caddy, who, you know, he lives in the middle of Idaho, which is not an easy place to travel in and out of. So it just shows you how much faith and belief they all have in each other. It really is a three-legged stool that has supported this. And it was just a beautiful moment to see them altogether. Joel does not need golf in a lot of ways, because he's seen the other side of life, to be honest. But that's what has helped him keep all this in perspective. What he said to me the last time

I was with him is, I'm good at golf. I know that. I'm good at golf. Sometimes you play well. Sometimes you don't. But I know I'm good at golf. And that is the text that he sent Gino on Sunday night before coming into this tournament, which he went on to win. So it's all about perspective. And Joel Damon is able to keep this game in perspective, keep his mind strong in that way, even when things aren't going well. So that win did not confer on JD status sufficient to get him into the masters. And in fact, he's going right from the Dominican Republic, that windy experience, up to San Antonio for the Valero, Texas Open, another extraordinarily windy venue. And, you know, let's talk about his prospects there in a minute. Because

We want him, you know, obviously, he's got to get sober. He's got to get everything. That's going to take a while. Let's be clear. We're probably going to fade J.D. this week. It's a fade. First of all, he was already tired. Second of all, nobody loves beer like J.D.

Like, he comes over to my house. Mark and I are like, oh, we're breaking out the good wine. Let's do this. Let's pour it up. He's like, he brings his own beer to like a fancy dinner party because that's just how he rolls. He brings a lot of it, too. Well, I want to make sure we talk about Bill. Horchell and Billy Horschell strikes me as potentially a beer guy also. Maybe he's a fancy wine guy.

He dresses. His style is my kind of style on the tour. I mean, it really appeals to the middle age white guy vibe in me. That's what he is. Right. Sure. Well, he's younger. Well, you had him, you had him in the final four. And so excellent call by you because you were the one who was pushing him through. We knew he was going to break out of that Cal group. But what is it that you saw and understood about him that had you really push us to get him there. It wasn't anything in particular about this season, although he'd had a couple good results this season. It was more over the balance of his career,

that dogged determination element to him. And now looking back, we have to be like cognizant of who's capable of the endurance contest, that is that match play thing. And it's got to be a guy that's got a lot of dog in him. That's why Kisner, was a great pick. And why, you know, for the 2019 event.

And you just need a grinder, don't you? Somebody who can get through it. Yes, yes. And it's not going to be, you know, showing up like, oh, I don't feel great. I'm tired. Like, none of that. Just a guy that's got head down trying to go collect pars and do whatever it is. So how the hell did Matt Coucher get through?

There's something about that venue and the match play format. Coocher has an incredibly great record. And I mentioned the record at match play. His form was so terrible coming into this event. But that's the thing, right? That's golf. Like you arrive at a place that feels great where he changed his putter. He got something that had a little more weight in it.

And all of a sudden he can't miss. And he can't miss from 20 feet. I mean, he's rolling in match deciding putts from 20 to 25. five feet. And so, you know, the quarter final win over Brian Harmon was really the most impressive because Schaeffler didn't play well against him.

Right. But Brian Harmon was playing the best golf of the entire tournament. Harmon was awesome. I just don't know. And Coutcher just outlasted him. I mean, in the same way that Damon was a mess coming into that tournament, Couture was the same thing.

It's just a reminder of how deep the field in golf is right now. 15 of the top 16 seeds didn't make it through. And maybe that's an element of like the format and so forth. I mean, we will have to spend some time. They play having these guys

play essentially seven rounds over, you know, five days with the most dramatic, the most dramatic two hours of the entire golf tournament was Friday afternoon. Right. Right.

When the guys had to play for their sort of survival for their they were in playoffs. But how can we grab those two hours, the most dramatic two hours where you have the most still a bunch of awesome guys alive. I mean, you know, DJ was in a playoff. The playoff between Westwood and Sergio was incredible. Like we got all the best guys in the playoffs. We need Karnacki at this thing in this khakis, like telling us what's happening

because it was really hard to follow. You just knew there was a lot of good. action. Yes. And so, yeah, harnessing that, that Friday was awesome. I mean, it's a little bit like how golf needs to get on the missed cut, make cut train on Friday afternoon. You know this. Focus on all those people because that's where the drama and the fun is. We've talked about this with Pat Mayo. We want there to be the red zone for golf, the cut line for golf, the sweat, cut sweat for golf. It was great TV, even though I'm not sure they knew how to handle all of the moving, you know, percentages and probabilities that were happening in the afternoon. But then it really did,

I mean, Sunday was a slog. Sunday was a slog. It was unwatchable. So fortunately, there was plenty of other stuff to watch. And it was also decent weather here on the East Coast. So I, I, there was some rain early, but then I went out. I hit balls for two hours. I mean, you know, I was like a sit-inside, watch. Watch Scottie Sheplear. Miss Fairways. Well, I did enjoy Scotty Schaeffler hitting in the water on 12 and 13. I was rooting for him against Coutcher. He prevailed, but, you know, there is a little bit of, I don't know, a little cowboy in him.

Maybe it was the Texas five. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, he definitely had the crowd behind him. And the mistake that we made in our picks is we just should have picked everybody who lives in Austin, Texas. Because Dylan Fratelli got the lift. Sergio hit a damn hole in one. and Scotty Sheffler running around. Jordan was, you know, doing Jordan things.

So that's just the rule. You've got to understand horses for courses and hometown crowds, especially after a year of pandemic when no one was there. But I do have to say, we saw some, a few scary things when we started thinking about the Ryder Cup, which is going to embrace this format. I'm afraid of Victor Perez at the moment. Sure, with good reason.

Steely, Steely, Victor Perez. That's why I'm going to call him from now. on. I'm not sure if Billy Horshiel isn't on the team. Who's going mono-imano with Victor Perez? And again, Tommy Fleetwood against Bryson, you know, he was great. It's the second time he's kicked his ass in match play. You tried to talk me into Tommy and I was in the mood to fade Fleetwood. It's fine. We knew Bryson wasn't going to play well in this format. That's the part that's scary for the Ryder Cup because he's a shoe in for that team. It's just not clear that this is a format that he plays particularly well in.

You put it in the form of a question, why wouldn't Billy Horshull be on the Ryder Cup? What else do you need to see from him? I just think there's a lot of golf left to play this season, and he may be peaking at the wrong time. You know, there's always the guy who wins a tournament and a half or something, meaning he almost wins one, plays a second coming into through July or into August, and it puts pressure on the captain to pick him. Yeah, but don't we now have enough evidence?

that you need, you need your dogs. Like we don't need the guy that that's in form that's not a great match play person. That goes out there and farts around to an 02 and one kind of, you know, rider cut performance. We need the guys that got dog in them. And we have plenty of evidence that Billy Horses got the dog in him. We want, you know, like Kiz. Kiz is another one. Kiz has the dog in him.

We've got to figure out a way to get him in. He loves match play. He's great at match play. We got to get our dogs out there. I agree with you. It's just going to mean cutting somebody like Tony Fino. And? I knew you were going to say that.

I'm just putting it out there. Okay. Look, I wouldn't cut him. Figure out a way to make the team have him be associated with it. He's earned his way onto the team. He's just not a good performer in that format. So recognize the accomplishment. Let him be part of the team.

And then don't put him out there. Like, do you want to win? Get your dogs out there. If you want to win, get the dogs out. That's all. Is Matt Coo, you're a dog? No, absolutely not. And he's not going to be on the team. And he doesn't deserve to be on the team unless he wins a couple times, you know, through the course of the year. And maybe that'll happen. I don't see it. Yeah. We're going to have our two OG media legends on here in a couple minutes. But before, let's talk a little bit about this Valero Texas Open. It's always a fun tune up. Usually it's the Houston Open, but like the Texas tune up is what I'm referring to pre-Matic. Masters. This event, you know, we're going, they get to go from Austin to San Antonio,

short trip, nice and easy, you know, nice and comfortable. And this particular venue is another like Texas wind kind of deal. It's unbelievable. This particular one is either first or second on tour in terms of difficulty of hitting green greens and regulation. Yeah, it's just, it whips around that course. There's no elevation and it just is 20 miles an hour. in your mouth the whole time. Yeah. Have you been out there? I have. Me too. It's fun. I liked it. I like taking that kind of beating. I enjoyed the course a lot. I think there's some guys who look at this and go,

I do not want to go out in a 20 mile an hour wind, have it fuck up my swing the week before the Masters. That's why DJ was a late ad on Friday after he lost his match and then came to his senses and dropped. So it's going to be interesting the guys who are playing the masters, namely Jordan Spee's to see what actually happens at this tournament because it's going to blow all four days. I think for Jordan,

this is the ultimate, like, tune up kind of thing. I would, he is not a pick of mine to win. He's not a pick of mind to finish. Maybe he'll finish top 10 because he'll, you know, he wants to continue the good,

solid form that he has, but I'm not worried about what Jordan Speed does in this golf tournament this week. I'm just worried that he's going to make the cut and he's going to play four days in the wind and it's going to screw with him coming into Augusta, which, as we will talk about, is going to be a different Augusta than we've seen the last couple of times. Sure, yeah. So who do we like? Who do you like?

I have a couple names down the card. Who do you like? Well, I have a sense that coming into Masters Week, we may have a visit from our old friend, verno. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And his classic line last year, where the hell is Charlie Hoffman?

Charlie Hoffman is T-7 at Pebble, T-10 at API, T-17 at the players. He was T-34 last week, but only because of a 77 on Sunday. He's the all-time learning earnings leader at this tournament. He's 10 for 10 in cuts with a win, two seconds, and a third among eight top 15s. Like a master's isn't a master's without Charlie Hoffman just, you know, at the top of the leaderboard on Thursday. So this is, we got to put something down on Charlie this week. Well, that's a great point that you just made. You know, there is a guy out there that has to win this week to play in the Masters.

He's going to miss the Masters unless he wins. That's why a bunch of these guys are here who are on the edge but haven't qualified. And so Charlie is going to give it his all this week. Well, I'm talking about Ricky Fowler. who's 94th right now in the official world golf rankings. If Ricky does not win this golf tournament, Ricky is not playing in the Masters next week.

What's your, do you have any sense? Do you have any feel for Ricky? So Baker's Bay, which is the place where they always go for spring break after the Masters. J.T. and Spieth and Ricky and then some rotating goon

who usually has a career-ending injury, friend of theirs. But Baker's Bay was absolutely annihilated by a hurricane a year and a half ago. It is back and the course is open. So that's added incentive for Ricky, who has a place down there, to try to get his way to Augusta so they can all hop the jet and get to Baker's Bay. So the incentive for Ricky to win the Valero, Texas Open is not to make the Masters. Yeah. It's just to make the Masters so he can get the Baker's Bay with his boys.

Well, yeah, because otherwise they're going to make him fly the Jet O'Bell. from Jupiter or whatever, pick them up at Augusta. And what an embarrassing thing to be waiting on the tarmac while these guys scrolling after actually playing the good golf tournament. So Ricky definitely has all of the... And look, you know, we know this that it's going to turn around at some point.

If Jordan Speath can turn it around, if Joel Damon can turn... If, right, all these guys who we've seen Couture can bring... Ricky Fowler is good at golf. He's working hard. We know this takes time. these swing changes that he's making, we're starting to see him play a little bit better.

It's going to happen at one of these events. I agree with you, and I like being cup half full with Ricky. Who else do you like this week? Two guys down the card. I'm on Cameron Trengali. I'm on Cam. Cam's a guy who,

one of the very few players in this field that's played the last 10 events, the last 10 of the Texas Open. He's been playing pretty good, 11 of 14 cuts this season. Six top 25s, a tied for seventh at Pebble, a tied for 13th at the Honda.

And he's kind of got a mixed bag of results at this venue, but there's a couple top tens in there, a top 20 in there. I just like a guy, the other angle for Tringali,

lots of first time winners at this venue. Okay. So that's, that's part of, part of the tale. There's not a lot of winners who play this tournament sometimes. But, I mean, sure. I'm also looking at Matt Wallace, who is a guy who has one, does have under his belt a bunch

of wins, but only in Europe. He won his group at the WGC match play. He finished in the top 20 at the Arnold Palmer. He's a wind player. So the thing that's bad for Matt Wallace has been his chipping. But what if Matt, these, they're big. Green's at this place, notwithstanding the fact that they're hard to hit. But I kind of like Matt Wallace quietly sort of under the radar just as a guy if you're trying to build out

a card. And then you got to put in an Australian. I mean, it feels like we put an Australian in every week because we've been talking about wind every week. And you know that in these kinds of conditions, I have to get an Australian into the mix, right? We've been talking about wind. For sure. We feels like we've been talking about wind for six weeks now. I'm on Cam Davis, who we've been watching, you know, with some some decent results. It's played really well. Yeah. And, and, you know, we have proof of concept out of what Matt Jones just did for us down at the Honda.

So, you know, looking for guys that have a demonstrated track record of success in the wind. And so that that's just, you know, these guys that that have a whole lifetime of experience and playing in those kind of conditions. Davis is one of those guys. I don't mind it. I'm going to give you three other names that are mostly momentum plays coming into an event in which you said.

It's pretty wide open. The first is Sam Ryder. He was T2 at Corales last week in the wind. On Sunday, the windiest day. He posted an 11 under that almost won that tournament.

Got him a T2. He was T8 at Honda the week before that. So he's coming in pretty hot and he seems ready to go. Chris Kirk, who we've loved, He's a guy who fell off the radar, obviously for a while with some personal challenges, but he's back.

It's made him mentally stronger. Five top 25s in 2021, and he has two top tens in San Antonio. So a guy to look at there. And then lastly, our guy, Brendan Steele, we knew he was going to play well at Honda. He was T3rd there. He has one here in San Antonio, and he is eight for eight in made cuts in 2021. Wow. That guy looks like an almost certain T20, if not T10.

He could win this thing this week. I love it. That's spectacular. What are we going to do with your one and done? Abe answer. For sure. You like it? Oh my God. It's his hometown event. He's playing really well.

He's had top 25s in his last two starts. It's the perfect pick for this week. Oh, good. I'm so happy you said that. I'm sure that he'll miss the cut now. But you know what? We're in lockstep on Abe doing taking care of business. So look, we didn't have it to have any conversation about it. like it, mayo's on him also. That's another reason to not take him, but

yeah, that's the only thing that's holding him back at the moment is his putter. Let's just say it. Nobody's talking about top 10 Tony in this tournament. No, I'm not. I'm just, this is the kind of tournament that top 10

Tony would go out and win. Okay. A smaller one that's, you know, this is the kind of thing, but we're not, I didn't like what I saw from him in match play this week. All right. All right, my par saving pals, as promised, it is a rare and exceptional occasion here on Fairway Rowland. We get not one, but two absolute titans in the media game.

A couple of OGs. I love it when we get the OGs. These are our old school golf media guys. Matt Janella's got golf digest in his background, golf channel is background, Alan Shipnuck, Sports Illustrated golf magazine. You know these guys. Alan and Matt have started a new venture and adventure called the Fire Pit Collective.

They are on Fairway Rowland today to help us understand what the hell it is that they're up to. What up, boys? How many cups of coffee did you have, man? This is three drinks. Yeah, this is called Tuesday. What do you mean? I cannot match the pet,

but thanks for having us. We'll try and keep up. Well, we're excited because the combination of you two guys on the project that you have in mind is like a real breath of fresh air, at least to, you know, all of us folks out there consuming golf media content. And I'll just, you know, give a quick shout out to all the folks behind the scenes that are making both of you look very good. I mean, the website looks terrific. The video stuff looks great. podcast sound great. So I'd like to start with the origin story. And as with all great relationships, I know that hamburgers were prominently involved some number of years ago,

decades ago, perhaps, right? Yeah. So I'll just jump in here because so Matt and I were both at Sports Illustrated in the mid-90s. You know, young guys in our 20s just rolling around the city, having fun, and trying to make her way through the incredible institution that is SI. We went out to dinner and we went to this little place called Finalee Cafe in downtown Manhattan. What I remember vividly from that dinner, which I haven't even talked about was the hamburger was like this round sizzling ball of meat. And we were at the next to us with the tables are elbow to elbow. And there's these two women we were talking about. They were getting into vegetarianism. They were changing their diet. Matt got his knife. He punctured the burger and the juice like shot

out like a fountain all over their table. And they jumped back like. You know, we just slaughtered a cow right in front of them, and it was hilarious. But that dinner was really the first time we'd hung out and talked shop. And what we both realized is as much as we were in awe of Sports Illustrated institution, we were already frustrated with the very rigid decision-making and the very sort of monolithic group of editors who held all the cards and the rest of us didn't feel that empowered. And it became a theme for the next quarter century as we made our way through all these different legacy golf media titles that you mentioned, Joe, is like we could just never do things our way to the extent

that we really wanted to. And we're out, we're the guys who are out on the beat. We know better than the businessmen and CEOs and the editors were sitting on a cubicle in downtown New York or Connecticut or in Orlando or wherever there. Our corporate overlords were located. And so we finally are doing it our way. And the Fire Pick Collective is going to be the platform for all of the work that both of us do. And, you know, Matt can speak to how the vision has changed just here in a very short period of time. Yeah, I mean, Matt, tell us what were they missing?

What are the old school people who were keeping you from doing what you wanted to do? What do they not get about what's possible in presenting golf? That's a layered question because in each particular case, it was a little bit varied. But, I mean, if you go back to the idea of a news weekly, Sports Illustrated, in the 90s that mattered. You know, that was something of relevant, a news weekly. Just think about, that, you know, that, that sort of faded and, you know, it's relevant. It just, it just doesn't make any more sense. I mean, so there's just that overall overarching sort of conflict in, in a concept. I mean, it did just, once the internet happened, then that, the news goes away.

And then jumping, I jumped to Golf Digest in 2001, and it was Golf World and Golf Digest. And again, Golf World being a news weekly, people were getting, people were getting golf world after the next tournament was over. So that, you know, and I always was scratching my head going, so wait a minute, we're selling subscriptions to people who are getting this magazine a week after the next tournament's over. I mean, so is that really, is that, that's the business model. So, you know, we watched that kind of fade into oblivion. And then Condi NAS struggled with kind of try a print-based company.

I'd be in these high-level meetings at Golf Digest, you know, prior to leaving there in 2012. And I was sitting around the table going, you know, I might not have the answers, but they don't either. And they're the ones who are the leaders. So, okay, if I'm looking for them, if my trailers hitched to them, this is not a good scenario. So I got one of the last, you know, sort of spots on the lifeboat of getting a chance to go to Golf Channel, thankfully. And now I've watched sort of the traditional linear model of TV and, you know, high production costs and losing ground in the advertising category. So the rubber has met the road. If you're not effective and if you're not efficient,

you're not going to be relevant. You're not going to be around. And so now to answer your question, efficiency is like one of the biggest issues that I've always had, which is if you're going to send me in a talented team of shooters and audio guys and editors out on the road, and we're going to come back with five days of content, whether, wherever that is, pick a location. And we're coming back going, what? Wait, do you see what we've got? You know, we could break this off, do this, do that. And they look at you with three heads and they go, no, we're doing this. We're doing what we always say. So now we're killing a cow and we're only only eating the filet. That level of inefficiency is, is to me, not only soul crushing, because I know what we have. And I also know what the viewer or the reader or the subscriber or the listener, or the listener.

or whatever is not getting. So that kills me, the content creator. It's killing me. And then there's layers of people that get inserted in the system, editors and other producers who weren't even on site, who take your content and tell their story. They decide what the story is. And again, you're like, this, you're going to,

what more can you do to make me feel horrible about the finished product? I mean, how many more layers of dysfunction can you put between me and the finished product and still pretend like it's mine? So that was indeed one of the things that I was prominently struck by as I went into the site and navigated around and checked things out. And this is just my own experience with golf media. There is always a latent suspicion for me of whoever it is that's the, the backstop, the money behind the situation, infiltrating the content, right? Like golf media is infomercial. And that's been the model it feels like for like the last couple of, again, this is me

speaking from my own experience with just observing it. But like how do you guys think about avoiding, you know, because you have very respectable prominent sponsors backstopping this adventure. but how do you guys have you thought about keeping the independent voice because so often, you know, with the magazines, the online content, hey, this golf company has this really great driver out right now. Let's all go look to it. And there isn't, you know, you have to be skeptical a little bit. Yeah. I mean, that's one of the things that's important to both of us is that we're just going to be fiercely independent and we're just going to be truth tellers. And if you

follow me on Twitter or you read my stuff, that's kind of always been the way I do it. And it's, it's only going to get amplified now because I've taken away all the salesmen and all the executives and all the editors and the owners who have those agendas. And for sure, if Calloway wants to come in and sponsor the podcast I'm going to do with Christina Kim, we'll listen to them and maybe we can make a deal. But we're not going to agree to have only Callaway staffers on the podcast. And we're not going to agree to all these owners things that they're used to getting in their relationships. Because when you look at the cover of Golf Digest or Golf Magazine, a lot of it is based on who the sponsors are. It's like, well, we have to get four Calaway guys on this year. So who's

available? We're just not going down that road. We're just going to write the stories we want to write. And we're going to do the storytelling that's meaningful to us. And I think that the readers and the viewers and the listeners are going to respond to that. And hopefully the audience gets so that people want to just come in and from a corporate standpoint, they want to support what we're doing. But that's going to be the model. It's always going to be about engaging the fans out there. And if you do that well enough, the money comes to you. And that's what we're counting on. We do not, we're not going to sell our soul up front and try to attract these endemic advertisers who ask for too much and are used to getting their way because that doesn't serve anybody.

It dilutes what we want to do. and the sophisticated golf fan out there recognizes it. So, you know, maintaining that spirit of independence and autonomy is very important to us. And, you know, there's a lot of partners out there who just get it. You know, Matt's obviously been aligned with Link Soul for a long time. And, you know, there's kind of, that company has a certain spirit about it that matches our sensibilities perfectly. And they're not going to, they're not going to make those kind of asks that some of the other, the other companies out there might.

And so we're just going to look for partners who get what we're doing and want to support it and are not going to enforce their agenda upon us. How do you think about long form versus short form content? I mean, Alan, I love when you write a piece because I love to sink my teeth into something long and meaningful and a story. And at the same time, for in particular,

the younger generation of golf fans coming up, there's this TikTokization of content, right? where everything moves shorter. How do you strike that balance in telling stories? Well, I think we want to counterprogram to a large degree. Like, if you look at, you know, Matt's podcast, he's brought so much artful storytelling to that, with the different voices of the ambient music.

And, you know, it's not just press record and have a couple of guys, you know, talking to micro, no offense, boys. But, yeah, that's all we do. Yeah, there's a real storytelling DNA to that podcast. And yeah, the, I just actually at 1 a.m. finished it's going to be my first big piece for the Fire Pit Collective.

And it's 7,000 words. Awesome. Yeah. I mean, fuck you, editors. Wait till I edit that down. I'm going to put it out at 1,500. We're not going to 7,000.

Yeah. And literally, in my old writing life, I would, you know, there's a lot of spicy stuff. This is going to be my 25th master. So I'm looking back at all my time in Augusta.

the stories behind the stories and my jousting with the green jackets and all the, all the things that I've been a part of that are, that I think are interesting along the way. In my old life, I'd be like, oh, well, someone's not going to want this. There's no way this is going to run or I can't use that word or I have to obscure this person's identity. And now it's like, Matt's the boss. I'm the boss.

We can do whatever the hell we want. And so the lack of the guardrails and of a sensor is, so liberating. I mean, I feel like Andy Dufrain, when you crawl out on the pipe, you know, that's the spirit of what we want to do. But, but to your question, for sure, we want to reach all the audiences. And so we're going to have fun, short clips on social that people are going to enjoy. And maybe they never click on the link to larger piece, but they just enjoy the 30 or 45 second narrative that's baked into that clip. And if the spirit moves any of us, we want to write 500 words about what's happening in the world of golf.

We'll do that too. I mean, there's no formula. But there's obviously these new media companies that have come into the golf space and kind of energize the beat in the last five years, you know, whether it's the Friday egg or it's no laying up or, you know, it's a foreplay. Like they do a good job of podcast and do a good job of the video storytelling. But none of them really focused on the written word. And that's obviously kind of my bread and butter. So we want to get people meaty things to read. You know, Matt's video storytelling is tremendous.

I mean, there's a whole arc in the pieces that he does. And so again, it's not just going to be like, let's go out play golf and film it. We want to focus on other people in the world of golf besides ourselves. And for sure, we'll have fun and we'll goof off and we'll put that stuff up there too. But it's more about telling the other stories in an artful way than just focusing on our own golf games and what we're doing day to day. Yeah, and that's what I want to pick up with Matt. one of the things I was very struck by going through the experience of the website was how little content had anything to do with the tours, the PGA tour, the LPGA tour, there was

at the moment, I know that you guys are still sort of building this thing out, and there will be tour focus content. I mean, Alan's been writing about the tours for, you know, 30 years. So, but just most of what I was struck by was the golf life kind of, um, aspect. of the content and that really fits especially the sort of I think of Matt Janella as a storyteller. So the website kind of fits what my brain anticipates out of Matt Janella. Is there what's your guys sort of vision about, you know, that the professional tours and what you guys are working on? After Golf Channel, a golf advisor bought me out of the third year of my last contract,

which got me 2020 essentially full. salary but paid not to work. What I did was I did start the, you know, did start the podcast and essentially had no advertising to it. So I didn't sort of, you know, have any conflict. And built out the verticals of the avid amateur as it relates to the ambush, bringing that thing back that I used to do for Golf Digest, which is celebrating the buddies trips. And then traditional travel, which we call journeys and then, you know, features and news. And we had a Merch Vertical, launched that in February. We added Allen in March. And with adding Allen, you know, that we do, we do sort of harmonize in terms of what we, he's, you know, 80%

PGA tour and 20% lifestyle or other just throwing our arbitrary numbers. And then maybe I'm 80% lifestyle and 20%, you know, something relating to the professional game, either the destination they're at or, or a feature on, on, on, on, on some who plays at that high level. And that one plus one really felt like it equaled three. It was like, wow, where can we go from here? You know, quite honestly, as you'll see in the next couple of weeks, we've only just gotten started in terms of what the true vision for the collective is going to be.

Because we are going to add six to eight more content creators. We're going to create a very diverse, you know, a set of perspectives on the game. And, you know, to answer your questions, related to professional, yes, Alan will be writing stories, you know, about, you know, key tournaments, but also features about, about professional players.

I've all, you know, I've got a, we've got a couple episodes banked to Bubba Watson versus Goadhill Park, trying to break the course record. He's going to go on and do that at other municipalities across the country. We're going to create a series around that. For me, that's so much more interesting.

That's such a better way of actually covering, the professional game. Once they're inside the ropes and they're trying to, you know, beat the guys in a stroke play four-day competition, yeah, we, you know, we crave for some element of drama,

but is that really the most compelling thing, you know, that's happening as it relates to, you know, the world of golf? Not often. Very, very seldom, actually. And they're playing for a million, two, or a million. That put was, oh, that cost him 250 grand. You know, it, that's really,

I'm getting less and less interested in the actual pro game every day that goes by. I'm more and more interested in the actual growth of the game, the soul of the game. How do you define success for a venture like this? I mean, it sounds like you've got some strong feelings about the state of the game. So I'm interested in both your perspective, just what's the state of the game at the moment? But then also, yeah, you're running a business and you want to have a lot of eyeballs. but what does success look like in terms of impact for what you're doing? We need to keep the lights turned on for sure.

We've had some incredibly productive conversations with investors and other platforms who want to come in and be our distribution partners. So we feel pretty good about where the business is going to go. And I think for Matt and I, success is just telling the stories we want to tell and the way that we want to tell them. And that's going to feel so good after we both, yeah, freedom, after just feeling shackled. And so, you know, we've been doing this a long time,

and we have a half century between us talking about the game. But, I mean, I can say confidently my best work is in front of me now because I've had so many ideas over the last X number of years that I just couldn't get any traction from my bosses. 7,000 word pieces don't go so well in Sports Illustrated. Yeah. I mean, they did in the 90s maybe, but, you know. And also, like, for instance,

success for me is that people are going to enjoy reading them. So it's been a frustration of mine going back to CNNSI.com in 1997 when it launched. The reading experience for the digital golf fan has been so piss poor on all of my stories. It's just you're getting assaulted by pop-up videos and clutter and ads and embedded links. And it's driven me crazy. I don't know how anybody ever finished a long story, you know, which is supposed to be immersive and transporting. Right.

And you're just getting punched in the mouth by all this, all this garbage over and over. And like I tip my cap to anyone who could finish a 2,000 word story in those formats. And so, and I battled so often with my bosses about this. They said, well, you know, we sold this ad. We got to put it on the story. And, you know, now it's the first time in my life that I have so much I have say and authority on how it's going to look. And we want the stories to be clean and beautiful and easy to read. And, you know, it is a business.

So maybe there'll be a banner ad. or maybe there'll be some other sponsor acknowledgement. Or it's behind a paywall and it's a subscription. Yeah, that's the other thing. That's part of the long-term vision. So success is that people are going to come to the site and they're going to read the story and it's going to invoke pleasure and not frustration. Right.

You know, same with Matt, as he was saying, like, he's going to go somewhere and spend some time in an interesting place. and he's going to bring it to life in a really compelling way that is going to mean something to the viewer. It's going to mean some of the folks back. He's telling their story. And I think the metrics for us to define sex are pretty simple. Like we just want to tell great stories and we want people to enjoy them.

And we're finally in a position where we can kind of make that happen. And yes, we do have to make sure that we can balance the books. But I think if you're doing great work, it's going to find an audience and all that stuff isn't going to take care of itself. Yeah, Matt, you just hit on something that was one of my questions, which is as this sort of grows into the vision you guys have in mind, how do you want people to like find it and how do you want them to consume it? Because like the website I found because I knew from Allen's social media feed that

when he joined that I go to the website and that's where I can see stuff. But going forward, you mentioned Matt, the subscription approach. How are people, how do you guys imagine? people getting fire pit collective content. I think it's going to be, it's going to be a little bit of everything. So the website is obviously going to be a hub of everything we do. And there will be a subscription model where subscribers will get extra stuff. So I'm doing 600, 600 minutes for a, for one 60 minute podcast, 60 minutes of interviews for a 60 minute podcast. That leaves all those other interviews, if you want to hear the whole interview with Ben Crenshaw or Mike Kaiser or,

John Smoltz or whatever the, whoever it is, because I'm only using chunks of what they tell me as it relates to the story I'm trying to tell, which leads a lot of extra stuff. So, and then I, you know, I see Allen's long form being behind us from here. We'll have a YouTube channel. We'll have every, every content creator that we associate with under the, you know, under the umbrella of the, of the FirePick Collective, we'll have a podcast. We might have a megapod where everybody jumps on and we talk about one particular subject matter. I believe in that, you know, as Alan's been going out and doing really compelling written stories for a long time without a video crew going with him. You know, so if we're going to be able to send a crew with him and actually get more visuals behind his long-form story.

So I believe in that model of 32nd can tease up to a 30-minute piece of, three-minute piece of content, which teases up to a 30-minute piece of content, you know, and sort of or a long-form written story, you know, wherever you jump in and, you know, I'd like for you to go up or down or however you decide to consume it, we're going to be there in every way, shape, or form. But, you know, everybody we're going to hire is going to be a five-tool player. They're just not going to all have the same tools. So people are going to be, you know, prolific at editing, shooting, writing, writing, you know, podcasting, and then also be able to do all the other things.

And we're going to get people on, you know, on the team that have, you know, a business sense as well. I mean, it's a pretty, you know, it's a dream scenario for us. You know, at the end of the day, going back to the success question, you know, one day we're all going to draw our last breath. And I want to be able to feel good about the idea that at some point, I took the reins and bet on myself. And this is where we're at right now. We are going to pilfer a little of the great content that you guys are going to create for this podcast now. I want to get to your thoughts on the Masters in a second. Alan, we won't make you give us all 7,000 words, but we do want to hear what both you all think about the Masters.

But before we get there, I know you watched this matchplay event last weekend. It started great. It fizzled at the end like it always does. Is there a fix for this? I mean, I hope that everybody who is screaming that one of the majors should be a matchplay event is, is, disavowed themselves of that opinion. But how do you feel about this? Is it solvable? And this happens every year. The problem with the match play is that the first few rounds are the best because there's so much happening all over the golf course. There's upsets. There's lots of drama.

Guys are fighting for their life and that surviving advanced mentality. And it's so much fun. And it gets less fun as it goes on. It's very rare you're going to get a bunch of big names in a the final eight or the final four. It's just not how it works in this game. And in the first few days of matchplay, everyone's, this is the greatest thing ever. Why do we have so much stroke play? And then you get a dud final.

I'm like, God, I wish to be. If we're going to have a team event like we do in New Orleans, why don't make a team event match play? Yeah. I mean, for sure that there's ways to rethink it. The best solution would be that you take the top eight guys in the world ranking and you exempt them into the knockout round. and then everyone else is fighting for those other eight spots.

And then at least you have some star power guaranteed. But of course, it destroys the whole idea of meritocracy and playing your way through the rounds. But to me, that's the only solution because when you get players you don't really care about and they're worn out after a long week of matchplay, you get what we had on Sunday, which is a horrible TV show that nobody was interested in

and a champion that nobody really cared about. So it's a 10-hour TV show. It's not short. That's the problem. Well, yeah, but especially with Billy Horshels pre-shot. Like a telethon. That's the one good thing about the match plate is it really throws in a sharp relief how slow these guys are.

Because in stroke play, they can always, they come up to another player and you just come back when the guy's over the ball ready to go. But when you get to like Sunday at the match plate, you have to watch all their nervous ticks and all the bullshittery. And it's just, it's so tedious. And so, yeah, I mean, they have. they need a shot clock for sure. That would help the product. But I think short of exempting a lot of top players into the later rounds, this is just how it's always going to be. And, and I, you know,

there is a place on the calendar for a match play event, and I'm happy to have the Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, the two hours on Friday where the guys are, where there are playoffs for the various pods, that was the best, you know, two hours of competitive match play golf that I've seen since the President's Cup. So that was cool and fun. And, you know, Sergio's whole in one was awesome. But I guess, you know, we'll, we have to hold our nose because it doesn't seem like there's an easy fix. An event that I don't think needs much fixing, though, was right on our calendar staring us in the face. That is, you know, the return to Augusta, Georgia at its traditional spot.

In April, we'd love to get your guys sort of early thoughts on what you're anticipating. there's no tiger this year. It seems like Brooks Kepka is very questionable. Does that matter? Well, the Masters is the Masters and Augusta National is the star more than any individual player. So it really doesn't matter.

It's exciting because early word from the boys who've been down there is that the course is a race track already and the greens are very firm and fast. And I was just looking at the forecast, and it's 80-degree sunshine every day. And, you know, that's when Augusta National is really fun to watch. It just demands so many talent shots. And you can really use the slopes of the greens. And it becomes way more interesting.

You know, November was a one-off. But when the course is soft like that and it's more target golf, it's really not that interesting. It's not much you can do. Yeah. Not much you can do. But a firm, fast. fiery Augusta National is as good as it gets. So just fingers crossed that the weather holds, and I think it will be an absolutely epic master's because we haven't had conditions like that in a long

time. So who are our early favorites? I mean, there's the rise of Spieth, which will be a huge part of the discussion, I'm sure, but we're in this post-Tiger era where there are really 20 guys on the board who you have to think seriously about. As we come into the masters this time, DJ's got to be a favorite for sure, but who else is rising on the radar as you look at it? Oh, it's definitely Roy McElroy. This is the first time in his career that he comes to the Masters with absolutely no chance.

Everybody's written him off. He has no expectations. He can't keep the ball on the planet. I fully expect him to shoot 25 under because that course is so in his head and he's so mental and he puts so much pressure on himself. And I think this is the first time where he's just going to be like,

ah, whatever. I'm just going to go through the most. and it'll probably break the Turner record. But, you know, everyone else, I mean, that course just, it tortures them. And that's always been the history of the masters, whether it's Tom Weiskoff or Greg Norman or Ernie Ells and Johnny Miller, Lee Trevino. So many great players couldn't get it done there. And it wasn't because their game didn't translate.

It's because they wanted it too much. And the aura and the mystique just short-circuited their brains. And so that's what makes that week so much fun. So I really honestly think Rory's dangerous in his wounded state. But otherwise, you know, it's the usual suspects, because it, especially if it's firm. I mean, it's guys who can really golf their ball. I mean, they're going to be no faking it out there. The Kevin Kisner's of the world who, you know, sneak up and surprise people occasionally

week in and week out. I mean, this is going to be a big boy golf. Like, I think you start in the top of the world rankings. you work your way down because it's going to be such a demanding test the way it's set up right now. If you watch the Masters the last two years, you'd think this course is kind of easy. It's not TPC Boston, but it really hasn't shown its teeth. You get the sense the membership is ready to flex a muscle this year. A little wind would help too.

You know, elements are a key factor always at Augusta. You know, and that's, you know, I think that's actually the part that drives the people, you know, the guys, the craziest is standing on the 12T and trying to figure out the, wind. So if you get any kind of elements that helps a lot. I really, I'm, I'm really excited to watch Lee Westwood, given his state of his game and his, and his mental state and his sort of success factor at August. He's always, he's always played well there. Even when he wasn't playing well, he's played well there. Zander Schaftly, obviously has, has had a lot of success there. And, and, and even guys like Sergio, I mean, you know, the master's being back to April

and, you know, kicking off, you know, what I think is going to be an incredible run for major championship golf this year is, I can't believe it's, I can't believe we're a week out. We talked about this being a big boy course, a big boy tournament this year. We have to talk about the biggest boy. I need, I need 30 seconds from each of you on Beefy Bryson, the incredible bulk himself, Des Chambo, at this venue under those conditions. What do you think, Matt? I think, again, I'm, I'm, I think Bryson is, you know, a very unique character. I think he's, you know, Alan has spent a lot of time, a lot of time with him. My interactions with him have always been very, very engaging, very positive. I have no problem with the guy. I mean, obviously, he's not perfect. He's had some situations where you go, oh, man, that doesn't look good. That's that, that, that's not, that's not good behavior, basically. Um, but I also appreciate. the idea that he's willing to do what he does, say what he says, be the way he is,

commit to the game and getting better at the game the way he has. It's shown results. I find it to be, you know, I think if all the other sports, when some guy breaks out and is an outlier and does something special, whether it's scoring 60 points or, you know, throwing for seven touchdowns or, you know, Patrick Mahomes, you know, and doing what he's done, We celebrate Steph Curry. We celebrate those guys for what they do and their commitment to their craft. And all of a sudden, Bryson does when we go, oh, man, this is horrible.

We got to change everything. There's a roll it back. This is terrible. The negative cloud that comes in over golf's greatness, unless you're Tiger Woods. And then we celebrate and fawn over everything he does because Tiger was actually very similar to Bryson. He was different. He said shit that was disruptive.

He was doing things different. He was getting into the gym. when people weren't. And we ended up lauding him for it. He's the greatest champion of all time. But when Bryson does it, we're like, no, that we got to change the shit up. And it drives me crazy.

I give him credit, man. Again, this is what I'm talking about. Bryson went to Augusta last year as a favorite. And he had a total meltdown. I mean, he was like blacking out on the golf course. Right. He had to assess how he has to chew his food. And he got all these medical tests.

No, dude. Augusta got in your head. It's that simple. And that's what I'm talking about. It's so, it's just, these guys want this tournament more, more than any other by far. And playing that golf course,

just like walking on a knife's edge. And it just messes with them in a really unique way. And we saw it with Bryson. I mean, he was like, he almost blacked out on the golf course. And he was like testing his iron levels and all the, no, man,

that's what Augusta National did to Johnny Miller. That's what it did to lead Trevino. That's what it did. Bolinari. Bolinari. We haven't seen since. Yeah, exactly. Frankie Molinari walked to the 12th T in 2019.

He was by far and away the best player in the world. It wasn't even close. And now he's like heading for the Corn Ferry Tour. It's just unbelievable what that golf course does. It melted. It melted Speeth too. Let me just ask you both really quickly. Are we going to see Tiger play this golf tournament again?

Yes. But I think you have to have the appropriate expectations. I mean, to me, the best case scenario for Tiger is that his body heals to the point where he can block 72 holes or 36 and he can just kind of leave the game on his own terms. You know, can he climb the mountaintop of one, you know, yet again. He's Tiger Woods. So you can never say no, but given a question whether he wants to, right? I mean, that's a huge question. I think the X factor in that is Charlie is that he wants to.

to show his son what it looks like to be a champion and that grit to come back. And I think that will push him really hard and wanting to play those father and sons with Charlie. And maybe, you know, Charlie, we've seen his golf swing. Maybe they can play tour events together in 10 years. And I think that will get Tiger out of bed every morning is also just the internal wiring that makes him who he is. But, you know, is he going to contend? Is he going to be a factor at the Masters again?

it's hard to see it, but he's shocked us so many times before, but I do think if he could just come back and then be able to walk away the way he wants to, that would be success. And if he can find some magic a few times and get on a leaderboard, that would be absolutely incredible. But I don't think we need that from him anymore. Like he's given us so much. And the 2019 Masters was the ultimate victory lap and a reminder of his greatness.

And that's enough. We don't need any more from Tiger. He has nothing left to give. And that's okay. But I do hope he can make it back and just feel the sun in his back and the warm embrace of the fans. And that would be a happy ending in my book. Yeah, I'm a Tiger Truther.

So I'm rooting. I like everything that you just said, Alan. That is exactly the way that he can sail off into the sunset. And, you know, he can be the honorary guy at the Masters for the next 40 years. You know, if he lives long enough, he's lucky. I want to jump in there because I, you know, I broke my ankle when I was 35 years old, two places, ligaments, plate, five screws, and it took me 11 months, you know, who, you know, I was 35. Tigers an old 43 had back surgery, fifth back surgery five weeks prior to that, rolled his car,

and powdered his ankle. You know, I don't even know what that means. I don't even know what that, I don't even know what that, what, you know, the idea, the, the, the, The idea that he's going to be able to walk again, it sounds like, that sounds like a pretty significant feat in itself. Amazing. Then the idea that he would go out, you know, and be whatever he, 45, 46 years old with plates and screws in his legs, not to mention whatever the condition is of his back, which was already a pretty, you know, pretty suspect.

then he rolls the car after his fifth back surgery as he's as he's mending that. I mean, if he can, if he can ceremonial, you know, have a ceremonial sort of go around Augusta National or play in a father's son or have some sense of like a competitive round on the, on the champion store. That's, that to me is going to be a small miracle. Not to say it can't happen. I'm just saying there is a long road ahead of him and years of commitment to. No doubt.

back to health. And, you know, the idea that he was driving that car that morning, five weeks after back surgery, having an opioid, you know, opioid issues and car issues prior to that still boggles my mind. The guy, the fact that that guy was getting behind the wheel at all, ever again, seems to be an incredible set of mistakes, not only by him, but by his management. Magnolia Lane is really narrow. Like, you've got to get, you got to get targeted from Washington Road to the clubhouse. That's where it starts. If you can navigate that, then we've got a chance. Well,

I want to end with, we've got a couple teases that came out over the course of the conversation. Alan talked about his 7,000 word piece and his upcoming podcast with Christina Kim. What else do you guys have in the works that you're willing to share with us

that's in the near term, that we should keep an eye out, that might be dropping pretty soon? I got a couple, I'm lined up with a whole season, of podcasts with, you'll hear actually, went and visited Arnold Palmer just months before he died. Oh, wow. Doc Giffin, who I did an hour-long podcast, a Zoom call with 92-year-old Doc Giffin, who said that our visit, Damon Hack, Gary Williams, and my visit to him in La Trobe was the last time

someone stopped by and got stories from him in his office. And I've got it on video, and that will be available both video and in podcast form. We got Jack Nicholas catching a 14, 1,400-pound Marlin. We've got a tribute to Charlie Sifford, a tribute to Tim Roesfort. I got a tribute to Tony Gwynn. I got Nancy Lopez and all of her high school competitors talking about what Nancy was like back in New Mexico in high school playing with and against the boys, which is pretty cool. So a whole assortment of podcasts that I'm going to, you know, that I've, in some cases,

have talked to 20 different voices for people like Tim Rosa Fort and, you know, seven different voices on Tony Gwen, including Maddox, Smoltz, Trevor Hoffman, Tony Gwen Jr., Tom Verducci. So just a celebration of one of my favorite athletes of all time. So, you know, as we're also building out this business, I'm trying to sort of get time to edit this podcast, which is going to be extensive. Jack Nichol is catching a 1,400-pound Marlin is what happened to Bryson at Muirfield last year. I thought that's what the story was going to do. Well, there we go.

Alice Shipnuck, Matt Janella, of the Fire Pit Collective, right? Not golf this or golf that or channel this or channel that. The Fire Pit Collective is where it's at. Jump on their social. Jump on the website itself, the content. I'm already, I really don't want to wait around for this stuff that you just described, Janella. But thank you guys very much for coming on.

And you're welcome any time to come on. podcast and chop it up with us. Thanks for us. Yeah, thank you for having us, boys. All right, that was great. Thanks so much to Matt Janella and Alan Shipnuck, the Fire Pit Collective. And of course, big thanks to the homie,

Nate Dogg, Nathan Hubbard. We're back next week, guys, because guys and gals, it's the Masters. And we're going to do like we always do, a Monday storyline show. Wednesday, we're going to get serious about the nitty-gritty,

try and give out some winners. and then Sunday right after a green jacket is on somebody's shoulders. Nate Dogg and I will be convening with producer Stevie and hitting all the major points right thereafter. So plan your week accordingly. And in the meantime, please, let's hit them straight up there.