Fairway Rollin' - Breaking Down a Brutal Opening Round at Shinnecock Hills | Shackhouse (Ep. 67)

Episode Date: June 15, 2018

Joe House and Geoff Shackelford link up to discuss the carnage from round one of the U.S. Open at Shinnecock Hills (2:30) and make some predictions for who’s going to pull ahead to win (25:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I hope I didn't ruin your delivery method. Shack, in the same way that we were together in a place where decorum was the order of the day. I am sitting. I'm coming to you live. This is a media center. Decorum is a strong word here. You told me not to yell so that you didn't get kicked out. I did. I did.

I did. Weeks worth of work to do. I myself am sitting in a boardroom right now at the Westwood Country Club in Vienna, Virginia. You know how I do. Every year, this is the time for my member guests. It's a wonderful tradition having the member guests coincide with the U.S. Open and with Father's Day. It's a great tradition.

It's a beautiful day down here in Vienna, Virginia. And I'm going to start this off by asking you. I'll give you an over-under bet because, you know, we started off with, we ended the preview with some prognostication. How many transfusions do you think? I'll set the line at three and a half over or under. And we haven't been talking long enough on this phone call today for you to know or on this show. Three and a half is the number. Go ahead and tell everybody what you think I'm at right now.

Well, I think because you're a responsible podcaster, you kept the under. and there's another one waiting for you as soon as the show's over. That's outstanding. That's it. Is that correct? Well, not only is it correct, but I'd also like to give you a pat on the back. That's the first time anybody's ever called me a responsible podcaster in my entire life. So thank you for that.

That's wonderful. Well, I appreciate it. And we would love to have a transfusion here in the media center. They did open up some beer for us to help our stories flow a little bit more tonight because this is an interesting one to write this first round at Chinnacock Hills. certainly a challenge to be to understand just what happened today. This is unbelievable. The world top 10 are 50, just finished 51 over par in the first round of the U.S. Open.

I'm working on a little numbers roundup. Now, the top 10 low amateurs right now are a little more than 51 over par house, but not much more than that. Now, that's an amazing thing that these amateurs are almost in the same. category as the world top 10. I think that speaks to what an unbelievably bizarre freak show it was today out there. And frankly, House, the weather didn't quite get as bad as expected. I mean, it was windy, but it wasn't as crazy as it could have been.

I have two questions for you. My first question is, does it feel like a morgue because of the massacre? I mean, are you bringing in bodies? Are they wheel in bodies? I'm not trying to liken this to a natural disaster or anything. but it was a bloodbath out there today's show. It really was, yeah, and they backed off the golf course. It was clear when you walked on the turf versus you walking on the,

in the Fescue native areas that they drenched it last night, but this place just drains like crazy. And they definitely did not take the greens to a place they can take them. And if you watch on television, you see those puts roll, and they don't quite roll out like you're used to sing. And that's great. Congratulations to the USDA for not, messing things up and having a play stoppage and all that stuff.

That said, it still is astonishing to see what these groups did and how poorly they played. But then that said, Dustin Johnson's really having kind of a ragged day ball striking-wise for him. I haven't quite seen the final numbers as we're recording, and he's going to be tied for the lead of this tournament with three other people. So there were great players in the Upper Echon who were able to ham and egg it. but it was only him and Justin Thomas a little bit. And the rest, thunk? Justin Rose was right there.

Oh, yes, Justin Rose. Excuse me. Yes, world number three at the moment. We gave out both Justin, so I don't mind it. I mean, that was one of the things that we talked about. Now, I am interested in where your numbers come out because when I open up, and kudos, by the way, the USGA page, when you open up to look at the leaderboard and click on an individual player, they are really down. with the data. I mean, this is terrific.

They have fairways hit percentage, and they show that player versus the field, and they're also showing greens and regulation percentages, and again, as against the field. So I clicked open Justin Rose. Justin Rose had a day off the T. 93% fairways hit. That's 13 out of 14, bettering the field average of 70%. He was kind of like a little bit better than the rest, 12 of 18 greens and regulation. That's 67%. The field was under 50% today, greens and regulation.

And my question to you, what's the sentiment there on the ground since I'm down here in lovely Vienna? Is it an intimidation factor? Is it the wind? Is it discomfort because of the inexperience with the combination of course conditions? What is the main thing that's getting in these guys way? I think it has to be the intimidation factor because, again, the wind was tough at times, but it was never quite what they had said. It never got to the 30 number, maybe one or two moments. It was briefly very extreme on the 10th hole, but nothing serious.

You know, House, when you're out there looking at the holes and you were out there, since they've expanded all the greens here, when you stand in the fairways, every green now has this kind of look of a crowned, very intimidating. targeting target. And I really think that's a big part of this. A lot of the guys I saw hit beautiful, I mean, Rory hit the most beautiful low cut off the 60th. They can play wind. I think it was just a combination of intimidation and maybe, maybe slow greens, maybe Poa greens. We heard a few comments in the press conferences that you're back on bumpy poa. But each player is a little bit different. You know, Jordan Speets' issues were the same issues he's had all year. He he hits some putts hard. He seems to have some things

energy-wise that are that are just, he's just off. He's devoting his energy to odd things. I mean, there were, Fox's mics picked him up complaining about a whole well, we didn't know what he was complaining about as he was walking up to the putt.

He had about a three-footer on 15 for par. Walking up to the putt and you hear him saying to Michael Grella, that's the second one of these that's off. And I went, okay, well, is he talking about the green reading book or the whole location sheet? Well, after the round, he spoke to us, unlike people like Jason Day and Murray McElroy and Phil Nicholson. Oh, they all rolled? No, they rolled.

No commentary post-ray. He went right to the parking lot. I mean, straight to the parking lot. But Jordan said no. It was just that there were some holes that were dicey to him, whole locations. And that's what he was referencing when he was saying that. But he's saying that as he's in his routine walking up to the putt, talking to his caddy. That's not a good place to be.

And he also had an aiming stick on the putting green before the round. So my point is, you pick on these players. I mean, Phil Mickelson, you mentioned Judson Rose hitting 13th fairways. Phil Mickelson hit 13 fairways today and shot 77. If you had told Phil that he was going to hit 13 fairways on a windy day at Shinnecock Hills, he would have been very happy to hear that. and he would have said, thank you very much. That'll be 70 at the worst.

He could not hit an iron to save his life. It was just horrendous. The nine I watched, I didn't see the whole 18. So every guy had a little bit of something going on that was problematic. But like I said, Dustin Johnson, not a great day ball striking. And look at him, one under par. So that's why he's a phenomenal player. Temple is that.

So, listening to your take, and as you were describing a couple of the guys, one of the things I think when we were out on the grounds together walking around in the experience of it was the confusion is the word I'm going to use that is kind of natural to playing a venue where you can't really get a feel for the wind. You can't look up at the trees and see which way the wind is blowing on any particular hole. You can look off in the distance and try and get flags and stuff, but there are no natural. That can be brutal. This is a thing. Yeah, up at the clubhouse, there are flags on the driving range grandstand and there are flags on the 14th hole grandstand. And every time today I looked up there, they were doing different things. And it may have been the angle, but it was, you look at that and you think, oh, boy, if a player's having to look at that to gauge wind, that's going to get in their head.

Got in my head. Yeah, this is why I'm asking. At Shinnock, the combination of the way the greens appear when you're standing in the fairway, and the great discomfort that comes from not knowing, not having a great fuel for the wind. And what I'm getting at is how did Tiger Woods shoot triple bogey on the first hole? How did he make triple? He airmailed the green. Just airmailed it.

I mean, it wasn't even close house. It wasn't like it was one of those that just trickled up to the edge. and then collapsed down the hill. It just absolutely took, it wasn't even close. It just, it was a whole. So how's a guy like, I think he was amped up? Yeah, that's right. They had a stat.

I mean, they had a stat. His first hole on the U.S. Open, I can't remember the number now. It's just awful. He has an awful number. Going back to Torrey Pines, he couldn't play the first hole. Well, you know why. You know why he was, he was amped up. He was so excited about giving out all of our listeners, that delicious winner,

that prop bet we gave them, Will Tiger Woods hit the fairway on the first hole? The answer was yes. We told everybody listening. Get out there. Get your mortgage payment. Now, Shaq, I will have to confess to you, I'm my own self when I submitted my ticket late last night. Did not include that.

And the reason I didn't include is both because the odds had moved in the wrong direction, but also because you had sent me a win forecast. And I got a little nervous that he wasn't going to do the right thing, which is walk up there with whatever it was, a four-eyer. and I maybe he was even a five iron. I don't know, whatever, what club he teed off with. And I was worried that it was going to just go a little right and trickle into that right, you know, sort of first scrub area there.

Well, and it was really just a horrendous way to start the round, but then he did write the ship for a while, and then it all kind of collapsed. It almost collapsed on 10. He made an unbelievable up and down on that hall. He didn't hit a good second shot, rolled down the face of the, the green and then made them incredible, most incredible up and down. Bogie at 11, and from there he just said, you saw that.

And then he saw the bad T shots at 12 and 14, and that was really, and then the four putt at 13. It was a train wreck essentially there. But those are all unforced errors. That's the thing that's so surprising to me. Like there's no reason to be standing on the T at 11, which is 160-yard shot. and hit such a lackluster, you know, he just flared one out to the right. And it was, you know, like what I would do out there. I mean, I know that's a ridiculous thing to say. A lot of guys did.

I'll tell you one thing. You know, we just don't have any chance to talk to them in depth anymore unless they come in the interview room or it's just a player like Polter or McElroy when he's, when he comes in the interview room and they want to chat. But the thing I think I'm going to try and get at with some players the next few days, You just have to wonder if the golf course being so exposed the way it is and not tree-lined. And that's really most good players like a defined hole, tree-line fairways. If this place is just so difficult for them because it's very difficult to get your line on a T. Speed said that after the round. And it got me thinking that, I mean, when you think of the 14th T, I don't know if you got up their house when you were here.

but it's right under the clubhouse. They played it at 536 today. It's averaging the last I look. Like I said, on golf week, I'm going to have a little roundup of numbers, but it was 4.738, I think, which I'm going to go knock on the research desk door and ask if it's going to be up there with the hardest holes statistically for a round in the U.S. Open. In history, right? Yeah, yeah, but it's up on this hill.

The 14th hole used to be lined by shrubs years ago. and you could just feel a shot. And now it's so exposed and on a day like today when it's windy and sunny. By the way, so clear out and so, I'm not making excuses for players, by the way. But these are just the kind of little things that you ask, why? What, what, why? I mean, I'm just sitting here looking at just horrendous scores on the scoreboard here. One of the things that would throw this many great, great golfers off.

And these are the things I have to just assume that it's like, obviously you throw in the wind in the difficulty of the architecture, but also this kind of stuff with bright day and alignment, you know, there were just a lot of things going against you as a player. So it just makes the incredibly good play of

some of these top players around par or just a little bit under or right over that much more impressive. Well, I'm going to do something ridiculous, which is ask you to indulge me. I mean, I do many ridiculous things, but I want you to... You know what? I'm going to take the over under the number of transfusions.

And by the way, can I just ask quickly, do they do any, do they put any special twist on their transfusion? This, no, this is vodka rather than gin. Down in the south, when I have a transfusion, there's always gin. But up here, we're in northern Virginia, so we're not quite far enough south. So it's vodka, it's grape juice. You can have your choice between a little splash of Sprite or if you'd like a little bit of club soda.

I mean, you know, you can customize a little bit if you're inclined. Okay, I just wanted that clarification for the record. go on yeah my so the the ridiculous thing that i want to get to is um who we might think as we look at this leaderboard um might come in i'm going to talk a little bit about the live odds but before we get there i want to to engage you in something that that i think i'm going to characterize as a little bit philosophical which is which is this the whole week leading up to this event and you and i engaged in our own selves in the preview show a lot of the talk about this venue as being

its place in history and how well regarded it is and you know the sort of classic architecture and right right does it diminish any of those you know does it diminish it's standing

when these guys come in and we're talking about you know on today's show guys being uncomfortable because of the way the ball looks in the sky because it's It's clear. They can't figure out the wind.

The greens are all sort of camouflaged in a way. They all look tiny to the guy's eyes. Is any of that, you know, taking away from the stature of Shinnock and, you know, the accolades we've been heaping on it? I think it's a great question because I did ponder today why the golf course is coming off as sort of unlovable. and even some of the Fox announcers were saying, you know, this is a very hard course to get that good feeling that a good player likes to have and seeing shots, which is unusual because that's actually why people have always loved Shinnecock kills. And I was a little surprised to hear that commentary a couple times. So I don't think it diminishes it. Of course, you know, not that long ago in the game house, but the scores like this, people worshipped a golf course for humiliating players.

or making them shoot very high scores. So I don't think it does. I do have questions about whether modern green speeds and these green complexes are just kind of a goofy match because we are looking at greens that were slowed down today to make the whole thing work. But I think that's something we'll be able to ask more after the tournament. Ultimately, it was just a very difficult day and a little. bit of an odd confluence of great stars sticking it up and, you know, no, I wouldn't call it a strong bias in the tea time draw. The morning guys got a pretty good wind. In fact,

steadier maybe than the afternoon guys. The afternoon guys did have to deal with a wind shift, though. So they didn't quite meet the numbers of the forecast, but they did match what the forecaster had said would be a shift and a pretty, steady wind all day. And on that front house, so when we look ahead here down to round two, I want you to keep in mind and some people will probably be listening to this as

the wind is already well underway, but there's supposed to be more, a little more breeze in the morning tomorrow for round two. Nothing, no, nothing substantial. But what is noteworthy in the forecast is that it's

essentially 8 to 12 miles an hour, 10 to 15 at 8 a.m. and then 8 to 12 at 11 a.m. But then in the afternoon, they have 6 to 10, which is very, very light for the afternoon. So it's setting up for what I think ultimately after 36, we're going to say that it was an early late tea time draw bias. That's my conclusion. And the weather forecaster here so far has been very accurate all week. So what do you mean by bias. Well, generally, of course, sometimes, not always, but most times in these tournaments, we see certain sides of the draw get the better, the better. But deal on the first two rounds. And I think the people who teed off early today got a little, you know, better conditions and smoother greens.

And even though they got some win, those were all the guys that sucked. That was speed. That was Jason Day. That was Phil. That was Roy. What my point is, you're not getting the hint. You're right. I think that somebody like Phil after he regroups tonight, figures out what was going on with his irons, or even Rory or somebody else from that wave, may look at this wind and say,

okay, I've got a chance to shoot 68 tomorrow and make the cut, and who knows what happens on the weekend. That's all I'm saying. I don't... So this is what I like. So what you're saying is there's going to be an opportunity for the guys that went out, this morning and got blitzed to formulate, cogitate, and recuperate and show up tomorrow afternoon

with a game plan. Yeah, I mean, traditionally a golf course by the water, you're going to assume the afternoon's just going to be windier than the morning. But right now, the forecast says that. So I think that these players, and they look at the weather, they cite it, they look at it hourly. Jordan Speeth even looked at Monday's playoff forecast in advance of the week. Too bad there's no Monday playoff anymore. What?

What are you talking about? Yeah, yeah. You didn't hear about that? Did we not? No. Yeah, yeah, he was not aware that there's a new two-hole playoff. So he obviously doesn't listen to the, he didn't listen to the Shackhouse preview. And he also clearly isn't reading much of anything.

I believe pretty much everybody on the planet who follows golf knew they had switched that. So that was a little of a strange thing. So, yes, so they look at the weather forecast closely. That's my point. And I think you'll see some guys. somehow they'll have a nice meal tonight. They'll do some meditation or they'll get a massage and they'll go, you know what, these scores are horrendous.

I may be eight over, I may be seven over, I may be six over. But if I shoot around par, one under, two under, I'm suddenly, you know, I'm somewhere. I've got some life going into the weekend. But anyway, it's just something to keep in mind. I'm throwing that out at you to take a look at some things going into the Are you glad, though, that I've talked to you out of the 65.5 over under? Yes, yes. I didn't give it out.

Yeah. Great, great work by the prompt maker because that one had me stumped, as you know. Hey, friends, before we do a few predictions and look forward a little bit more to the rest of this incredible U.S. Open here at Chinatocke Hills, a word from our friends at Callaway, makers of the new exo putters, Sergio Garcia, 75. today, which of course was actually a very good round in Chinatok Hills, has put the new Odyssey X-O Rossi putter in the bag. Rossi, Rossi, are you out there? Oh, I'm sorry.

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I'm going to read you 10 names. Here are the 10 guys, a top line. I'm just going to, in terms of odds to win, and they're all prominent names. So none of the guys that are currently on the leaderboard that haven't, you know, sort of a,

nobody without a win next to their name is on this list. DJ right now. is less than 2.5 to 1. If you wanted to bet DJ to win the tournament, you can only get plus 220. That's like barely better than 2 to 1 odds. Justin Rose is 5.5 to 1. Henrik Stenson is 13 to 1.

Polter at 17 to 1. Ricky Fowler at 19 to 1. Justin Thomas at 22 to 1. Duffner at 26 to 1. And Russell Henley at 30 to 1. Those are 10 names. Or I can't do math right now. I just had a sip of transfusion.

Right. That's enough. Yeah, yeah. That's enough. Out of those names, is there any name that you heard, name odds combo that would catch your attention that may raise an eyebrow or even get you out of your chair and head of the ticket window? I think Stinson. Yeah. I love what he did this afternoon. I had my doubts about his short game on this golf course, even though everybody cited his incredible ball striking numbers.

But, oh, that's definitely the name that jumps up. out for me. That didn't for you? I actually was looking at, and you know I'm a narrative guy. I was an English major in college. I'm always looking for a story. I bet on Phil because I wanted to buy the

story, you know, I bet the story. The guy I like out of those names I mentioned is none other than Ricky Fowler. At 19 to 1, I really liked the way he managed himself around the golf course. 16

pars. He also 12 of 18 greens in regulation. So, you know, it was a very like mundane 73, but it was a 73 that didn't get him in any trouble whatsoever. It's a 73 that has him on the leaderboard, you know, in a inside the top 15, or no, top 20, I'm sorry. The plus twos are all tied at 13. He's tied at 20. It's just like nice position to be in, a nice easy way in as he kind of gets his bearings. And this new engagement thing, you know, there's always this freeing element that guys talk about when they have this aspect of their life settled down and the jolt of adrenaline that comes from, you know, having that wonderful commitment ahead of him for the rest of his life. Who knows, Shaq?

Ricky Fowler, 19 to 1. He might be my guy. Okay. Do we have a cut? We probably don't now, but it's going to be high. It's going to be high. I mean, right now, I'll tell you the number that there's a group of guys that tied at 67 at plus 6 and then at plus 7 or you're tied at 89. So it's right now in that range, it seems like a cut. Let's forecast the cut line. It's a 60 in ties situation.

There are a bunch of guys at plus 5. All the guys at plus 5 are inside the top 60 right now. Yeah, yeah. I think with the forecast, it's probably going to be eight over, I had to guess. Oh, eight. Okay. Yeah, I was going to say possibly 10. I mean, I just.

Yeah, it could be. I just, some reason, I think some people will be freed up a little bit more and they'll feel better. I mean, the golf, the greens, I don't know, I think that's what's so peculiar about the day is if you really watched it closely, the greens held beautifully. I mean, balls were just sticking. People were able to keep it in the fairway, no problem. You know, the last U.S. Open year, a lot of balls, a lot of holes, a ball rolled, a beautiful drive would roll into the rough. So I think that's what makes it such a head-scratching day that you saw Greens holding.

And they were slow by the speeds of today's players. They're still frightening puts. So I don't really know if that was it. Was there a read? Did they give a number for how they were rolling? We did not get a number. And in fact, in fact, you've brought up a fascinating little point. I try not to wear out my welcomes going up to the front desk.

But in the Mike Davis era, we've got an extensive daily course setup notes. And I don't believe we got them today. I'm going to have to go back and look. So what else did you? What's the buzz there at the member guest? Well, I will tell you, the group here, there is a strong sentiment that folks are really enjoying the blood back. There is a real nostalgia for that old school. U.S. Open Massacre, and it was among the people that I came in contact with, my partner, Bobby Johnson, some other Steve Mosley, the crew was expressing a little bit of enthusiasm for the idea that the open has been restored to its proper station as the golf stiffest test.

So I'm talking about, you know, I have a stiff drink right next to me, but there was a real enthusiasm for just, you know, and it was at Shinnock. So we talked about this earlier. Yeah, the traditional venue vibe. Yeah. Because it's just as treeless and lynxie is Chambers Bay and Aaron Hills. Right, right. But it's Shinnecock Hills. It's 1896, founding, yeah, all that, yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And let's be honest, a lot of the architecture is probably better. A lot of the architecture is probably better. Yeah, it's a legendary place. And that's where this discussion of the USA and the U.S. Open losing its identity, I think, I guess it hasn't excited me much because when you look at the venue list the next few years, it's going to be a situation where people kind of forget that discussion, I think, because they're just going back to the blue chip golf courses. It's incredible. It's an incredible list. Well, look, you gave out Stenson, I gave out Fowler. We'll both keep an eye on the trials and tribulations that those gentlemen face. We're back Sunday evening at the conclusion of the tournament. Hopefully it's not too late.

What time do we forecast this thing's going to be over Sunday night? Oh, they take it as far as they can. Now, we remember we have our two-hole playoffs, so they will have room for that. I believe the attempted sign-off time is 7 Eastern, but I'll chuck on that. Okay. Well, we'll be there at 715 Eastern to get this recap show. Let's hope. Yeah, it should be good.

I'm confident with the forecast that the guys will perform a little bit better as they go here. But it was a great day for there's some fantastic coverage to read. out there tonight for people. Some of the amateur stories are excellent, our firefighter. Matt Parsiali shots four-over. Awesome play by him. Great day, Matt. So there's some really interesting stuff.

Like I said, the amateurs played great. Some of the qualifiers did very well. And, you know, I'm just looking at the board. There's some interesting people, Sam Burns, who we gave out the other day, nice T6 plus one right now. That's a good number. That's a good number. House, I don't want to be negative, but I'm not feeling it for Duffner.

I just watched him stand over about an 18-inch putt for a solid 15, 20 seconds. That was, nobody should have to see that. He made it. He made it. That's why we didn't give him out. We didn't give out Duffer. We don't think he's going to win. No, we didn't.

But anyway, so there should be some fantastic coverage for those out there, hoping to read, of course, golfweek.com. And you and I'll be on the Twitter. And you're going to go back now to the, is this like a member guest? I'm going back to the bar, Shaq. Yeah. I mean, is this you like Rodney or you, you know, tipping the band to start playing some Earthwind and Fire? You wouldn't believe.

You wouldn't believe. I'm dying to know. Because I'm going back to Jake's 58 casino, which is quite a special place. So give me something. I mean, you could put down a. wager. That wouldn't be a bad opportunity for you. Yeah, tonight's Stag Night.

So I have a choice to make when we're done recording this show. I could either go home and get a good night's sleep and take care of the dogs and, you know, see the family a little bit, or I could stay here for another three or hours or four hours or six or seven hours.

What do you think I'm going to do? I think you're going to do a little bit of both. I think you're going to find that happy meeting between both. That's it. My guy. Thank you, Shack. Dead silence. Wow.

Dead silence. I appreciate the vote of confidence. Hey, before we go, you know, we've told you, you're running out of time on the Stars and Stripes, Truvis, Calloway, Chrome soft golf ball. You know what the strangest thing was at the U.S. Open I saw after hearing a few people make fun of me playing a Truvice at some really nice courses in the neighborhood? I saw pro golfers out practicing with Truvice before the U.S. Open, and they were using the Stars and Stripes.

I couldn't believe it. Alex Noren, Phil Mickelson. Totally awesome. Because by the way, the Truviss is an awesome ball to practice with. There's an optical illusion thing going on there.

People, you can read about it online at CallawayGoff.com. It's amazing. The ball looks bigger than a normal Chrome soft. Normal Chrome Soft X is wonderful. But you've got to go check out

the Stars and Stripes. Truvice. It's a limited time only. July 4th is coming up. You got to have those in your bag. They were out in the practice shag bags here at the U.S. Open. And before we go,

we'd like to give one more thank you our friends at Proper Clough. Of course, you know if you're having trouble finding shirts that don't fit. You've got to go to ProperCloff.com and order those custom shirts. It's never been easier. Creature your own size by answering 10 easy questions. They start at 80 bucks. If it doesn't fit, you send it back.

The whole thing is risk-free. So for premium quality, perfect fitting shirts, visit ProperCloth.com slash Shackhouse and use gift code Shackhouse to get $20 off your first custom shirt today. Well, on that note, I look forward to talking. to you Sunday when we have a new U.S. Open champion here on the shack house. It's on the Ringer podcast network.