Fairway Rollin' - Jason Kokrak on Putting Breakthroughs and the Lead-up to the U.S. Open

Episode Date: June 8, 2021

House and Hubbard talk about the many events in the world of golf leading up to the U.S. Open, including Jon Rahm's withdrawal due to a positive COVID test (02:04). They also discuss whether Bryson DeChambeau will be competitive at the U.S. Open (11:01) and analyze the updates on the Premier Golf League (21:13). Then House sits down with Jason Kokrak to discuss the major breakthrough in his putting game (37:06) and even draft a brand-new cocktail! Hosts: Joe House and Nathan Hubbard Guest: Jason Kokrak Producer: Steve Ahlman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's basketball season and we've got you covered. The Ringer NBA show breaks down the latest and greatest around the league five days a week. Check out the Ringer NBA show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, friends, and welcome to this golf podcast, unlike any other. My friends, we have done it. This is a jam-packed bareway roll. The golf podcast on the Riga podcast. Podcast Network. I am your starter Joe House. Birdie Buddies. That was a rough voice intro because

we have more topics than time this week. Plus an outstanding interview with the Rough Rider himself, Jason Cokrack. We may have a drink for all of you for the U.S. Open for your enjoyment, your West Coast U.S. Open prime time golf enjoyment. The Coke crack crusher is in the mix, but we have more topics than time this week, my Eagle enthusiast. Me and Nate Dog are going to get it started, walking over to the first tee.

The peg is in the ground, and I'm swinging harder than necessary. Here we go. All right, Nate Dog, I can't believe it. We have two weeks before the U.S. Open. I thought we might have a little bit of a quiet spell. No. The event on tour is a little bit.

I mean, it's a nice tournament down in South Carolina, the Palm Meadow down at Congaree. We get a look at Congri on TV. I thought maybe we get a little bit of a breather. No such luck. No such luck. Let's just try to get out of this conversation without it too having an asterisk next to it.

Well, let's start with asterisk number one. This is John Rom. I know that you and I are in violent agreement around most aspects of what went down with him having to withdraw due to the positive test for COVID right after he finished his third round. I think my question to you is, do you think that anybody did anything wrong here? Other than not get vaccinated, which is your personal choice, but other than not get vaccinated, which is your personal choice, but other than not get vaccinated, I don't.

The tour's in a tough spot. I would also look back and say everybody who said, oh, this is going to be a huge issue, big black mark on the tour. Here we are, you know, 72 hours later, they're wrong.

It went fine. Everybody knows, including Patrick Cantley, who I thought handled this as graciously as he possibly could have. He said all the right things. It was actually really fun to hear him in the post-round

news conference sort of talk about it. Everybody knows this was just a weird situation. John Rom won this golf tournament. He was going to win this golf tournament. And you should be terrified of him for the U.S. Open because he's going to come out just a raging Spanish bull. And I think he's going to go pound everybody into submission. Yeah, I'm already, I've already laid money on Rom to win.

The odds are horrific. There are eight to one for him to win the U.S. Open. I don't care. Like, no, I don't care. He figured out putter. sometime in the last three weeks or so. You know, he changed equipment. He's with Callaway now.

And the only aspect of his setup that he wasn't fully comfortable with through the first portion of the transition seemed to be putter. And then he figured it out because he was going to shoot over, you know, he's going to be 22 under, 21 under at the memorial, rolling the ball absolutely beautifully. my only villain in the whole episode was talking to him when he came off. Yeah, that's it.

Like, you just can't make a big spectacle out of it. Like, you know, come on. Everybody, you do better than that. I agree. It was not fair. I mean, I do have a little bit of an interesting conspiracy theory. I mean, some of the video that was shot of him, when he bends over, he gets up and he goes, not again.

and I don't exactly know what that meant. One of the things that we do know is that there are a lot of guys, many of whom we don't know, because I think about 20% of the guys on tour have had COVID at some point. There are a lot of guys who have suffered a not similar fate, but a sort of a fate, which was they had to pull out of golf tournaments before they happened, some of whom we know about, some of whom we don't. and some guys who had to pull out of golf tournaments

while they were happening. And I think, look, was it going to be safe for John Rom to play by himself and carry his own bag outside? Yes, it was. Probably, right. But they can't change the rules because there are guys, you know,

yes, Rom lost $1.6 million. They're guys who've probably collectively missed out on tens of millions of dollars because they all tested positive. And it just would not have been a fair application of the rules. Now, I hope going forward, they go, shit, let's make sure we don't get into this situation again and revisit how they will handle this going

forward. I also hope some of the other guys on tour who are not virulently against getting vaccinated and have just been lazy or busy, get their ass in gear and get vaccinated. So this doesn't happen to them. Yeah, that's right. This was a basic exercise in risk tolerance, right? If you, you know the parameters that you're operating in and then you make an individual decision around your appetite for risk. This was a very basic, uncomplicated math problem. And it was, you know, it's like betting. Dramatic.

It's exactly like betting. He literally gambled and lost $1.6 million. His decision, that's totally fine. I don't have any problem at all with him exercising an agency over his own life and his family's life. He just knew what the, he made a decision based on his risk. situation and that's fine. And you don't get to go back and change that. The good news is the sports books took care of the betters who bet on him so they didn't lose out. But I don't think

you get to go, hey, let's give him a booby prize, a consolation prize of $1.6 million because he rolled the dice and lost. Those are the rules. Everybody knows the rules. Yeah, everybody knows the rules. Okay. Well, I think that's enough on that. I expect him to be in perfect shape for Tori, I expect even during this period where he's supposed to be in isolation, he's going to figure out a way to practice. He's not going to put the clubs up on the shelf and not touch a golf club for the next 10 days or so. And it seems like based on the math measurement of when he's going to be permitted to be on grounds, it'll either be late Monday or early Tuesday, kind of the latest. So I think he's going to be fine. He's going to be fine. I do think it's worth one quick conversation about. two of the guys who were in this tournament because, you know, there were a few things that we will learn as we approach the U.S. Open.

The first is that Colin Moracawa still misses short putts in important moments. And I don't like it. He is the best ball striker in the game and he's going to lose some tournaments this way for his entire career until he figures this out. Is this a solvable problem house

or is this just who he is? Oh, it's a thousand percent. unsolvable. First of all, he's, he's a youth. Remember, he's been on tour for, I think we're coming up on 18 months now. Like we, our expectations have been greatly amplified by the unbelievable success he's had on tour in his first 18 months. But the dude's all over it. Like, I'm not worried about any aspect of his game. As long as he's able to maintain that ball striking, the putting comes and goes. That's something that's true for for everybody, including our, our guests later on this show, Jason Cokwreck, who's currently sixth in strokes gained putting, but had previously

been in the hundreds. So like putting is is solvable, right? That's definitely something. And it's not like you permanently fix it either. It comes and goes. And so I have no concerns whatsoever. one of the things that I liked about this tournament, the memorial, is it delivered the goods to us in terms of all of the horses for the courses. Right. We got Ram, Cantlay, and Morikawa. Big surprise that those three guys, you know, all performed great at a venue that they're very comfortable at and that all of them have had success at before. It was like a leaderboard that suits what you. kind of anticipate. So I like that aspect of it. Yeah, that's for sure. I think my only point on

Morikau is he's first in shots gained approach. He's 161st in putting. And it's getting in the way of him winning some tournaments. There's a couple of the guys I think we do have to mention. Scotty Schaeffler, there was a moment where you thought maybe this is going to be the time where he goes and grabs a tournament. He faded a bit again down the stretch under pressure. Again, young guy still learning. Scottie Shuffler's going to win a golf tournament soon. are we are we being unfair to say he should have one under under his belt at this point? Yes, he's he's the he's the reigning rookie of the year. I think it's okay for him to continue to just have to collect these top five finishes,

play great in these, you know, momentous tournaments to continue to be on the, the prominent stage that he's on in these contests. I mean, we saw him in the final foursome in the match play, WGC event. And here he is in the top three at Jack's Memorial. I mean, yeah, it's not a surprise to see him playing great. And I think it's fine for us to go ahead and be patient with him. Well, we can feel good about some other guys from this week. Xander seems to be getting the game back. He's going to be a tough, a tough out when we get to Tori. I think Jordan redeemed himself well after the first round. I love to see Max playing well. Patrick Reed, God damn it, pulls a fifth place and you just know, you just fucking know he's going to be in the mix at the U.S. Open. I mean, he loves Tori. What do you want to say? I know. And it's just, it's frustrating. I, where I want to bring you to next, and that will lead us into the next part of the conversation, is Bryce and DeCambeau going to be competitive at this U.S. Open? The game is not all there.

Well, he's going to be competitive because the venue is really like constant bill. It really is. It's really cuff. built for him to have success. And he can hit driver on as many holes as he wants to hit driver. The rough is clearly not going to be an issue for him. It does not seem like you can grow rough high enough for it to be an issue for him. So I expect him to perform well. The thing that I do wonder about, and this was ironically, um, the tag that we had previously on John Rom. It seems like Bryson sometimes sikes himself out.

Yes. This course sikes himself out. Yeah. So, I mean, well, and we saw it at the Masters, right? Like he's having kind of many tantrums out there where he's confounded by not being able to do what he wants or getting results that he doesn't expect. I don't, I don't anticipate that kind of phenomena happening at Tori because everything is just like right out in front of you. This is, of course, we're a mechanic and an analytics person like Bryson. It seems like he should be able to like have a game plan for it.

But, you know, who knows if the wind blows in a way that he doesn't like or, you know, somebody yells something, although I don't think that's going to happen. But if, you know, here's something he doesn't like, who knows if it knocks him off kilter? Well, I think we know he's going to hear something he doesn't like because he's been hearing a lot of things. that he doesn't like. And boy, we got an interesting conundrum in front of us now.

I mean, we know that the fans have been a little bit unruly and a little over the top across all of American sport. But he's not doing himself any favors right now, the way he's responding,

is he? I am officially at the point where I can't tell the difference between what's genuine and what is contrived and w-trived in media, exactly,

right because you know the brooks bryson thing has officially become a beer commercial now like you know what brooks did at the end of last week where he offered you know a michelope altrues to everybody that got kicked out of memorial early for yelan brooksy at bryson it's it's clear to me that this is you know and we're just going to have to hold our nose and live with it i don't think there's any scenario under which the us ga pairs them up at the u.s open right i i don't know why they wouldn't. I mean, why would you not? It's the right thing to do. Except who's the third? Who can you put with them? Patrick Reed. Now, look, that would be hilarious. If that happens, then we have three, three guys that have their own, I mean, varying levels of fan interest, fan base. I think people like Brooks the best out of that group, right? I think so. I mean, you got two U.S. Open winners and the guy who won it Tori Lass. that's the group. Wow. Well, I'm rooting for it.

I mean, they haven't announced the groupings yet. It would be magical. I just don't see it. It feels like it might be too much of a circus. I do think we, to pick up on the word circus, this PIP thing has had more of an impact

than I think anybody understood. And as we eventually talk about the PGL, these guys will do a lot for what to us, when we look at the entirety of their earnings, looks like not that much money. These guys are doing a lot of bullshit. it to try to work their way up these pip rankings. Well, I wonder, and we had the good fortune of having Max Homa and your brother and the

den mother, Joel Damon, on the pod last fall. And we talked with Max kind of extensively, and he was really thoughtful about, you know, the idea of, you know, the non-name brand guys finding opportunities to, you know, know, kind of make themselves relevant. And I think there is a natural, organic thing happening. I mean, Phil Mickelson, as usual, so far ahead of the curve, he really jumped in with both feet, you know, whole body, like 24 months ago when he's driving down Magnolia Lane and talking into his phone.

Getting bombs. Yeah. Yeah. And the whole hitting bombs thing, that, that's right. And at that point, I don't think the PIP was a twinkle in anybody's eye. but if, you know, you see the kind of reaction that Phil got and, you know, you see the kind of the fun prominence that Max has achieved. And it's nice that his, his play this year has matched his social stature this year because, you know, there was a time where maybe that they didn't

match up 100%. Yes. But, you know, I think on balance, I like it. I like getting more of a feel for who these guys are, what they're all about. I had a great time. You know, we're going to, this interview with, with Jason Cochrak,

getting some of his personality. I think we have an interview with Will Zala Torres coming up. What a polished, a young fella. He is like, I'm into getting to know these guys a little bit better.

Me too, but what I want to ask you is, you know, Eamon Lynch wrote a piece for golf week, where he suggested with a very, I thought thoughtful eloquence that Brooks was going too far. This all feels great for the game.

But is Brooks going too far with his stuff, the nerd in the locker stuff and making it a little bit personal, encouraging, maybe some factors that are going to disrupt the fairness of play? Or is this just all part of the fun? And this is where we are,

live with it, go out there and hit a goddamn shot, regardless of whether or not somebody's calling you Brooksie, Bryson E or whatever. It's hard to know for sure, right? Because it does feel like we are in a different kind of moment in terms of where golf is in the sporting public's consciousness, the interest in golf, like just the sort of events of the last 20 months or so, where golf was the first professional sports league to re-arrive on the scene with actual competition that folks could gamble on or do

fantasy stuff with. And golf the game was an acceptable pastime for folks to engage in as the spring and summer last year of 2020 arrived. And there was just like a heightened interest overall in golf and by extension the golf competition, the professional game. And with that heightened interest comes along, you know, the heightened kind of prominence of what these guys are doing in social media, their own incentives to jump into social media to reveal more of themselves. And so I just feel like, you know, we're, you know, previously, and I'm not suggesting that it's great that we're losing some of the previous etiquette, some of the sort of rules of the road, but we're just sort of going through it right now in terms of fan conduct across the board in all professional sports and sort of

where is the line? It feels like it's a bit murkier because, you know, the behavior of fans, it feels innocent for fans yelling, you know, in the middle of the fairway, let's go brooksy at Bryson. And it feels like overkill for those fans to be ejected for that. It doesn't necessarily feel like it was that big of a violation. But I don't want to have an occasion where over an important put or on a T-box where you could really affect outcomes that that behavior occurs and has a real

impact on the outcome. I don't know. I think we're just sort of going through a moment here. Yeah, it's a tough moment in all sports, right? If you watch USA, Mexico soccer dudes were getting pelted with water bottles and, you know, Kyrie got hit with the water bottle and even at the PGA, the clown jumped on

Phil's back and Brooks complained that people plowed through his surgically repaired knee. So as long as it doesn't lead to the sort of breakdown of that fourth wall between the fans and the golfers and somebody getting hurt or being in danger. I think it's a lot of fun. But I'm with you. I mean, the next couple of months, you could see, we said it, Tori Pines, California supposedly opens up on June 15th. Now, it's already, you know, it's already getting nuts. But we're going to be a lot of pent-up energy that gets released this summer. And I just hope people keep it in check. Yeah, well, the USGA was

pretty spare in terms of the number of tickets that they allocated and so forth. So I'm not anticipating. I'm knocking on wood. I'm not anticipating anything occurring at the U.S. Open. But that doesn't mean, you know, as the events go through the course of the summer and so forth, that, you know, what we're talking about, you know, isn't capable of repeating itself. Keep it fun, boys. Yeah, keep it fun. Let's do our best to keep it fun. I mean, you know, the Brooks and Bryson thing, the most obvious outcome to me is the next iteration of the match. They both had to be in it in some way, shape, form, fashion. I thought you were going to say the Logan Paul Floyd Mayweather fight. No, I don't. I will, I, I pretend that didn't happen. I'm done with those. Brooks was there.

I'm done with those. I saw him there. And he and Portnoy had a fun exchange and he's going to play lefty against Portnoy for for charity. And that's all, I mean, that's all great. But like, that's not a thing. for adults to spend their money on. So I refuse to acknowledge that it happened. Anyway, speaking of things for adults to spend their money on, let's talk about the Premier Golf League because... Is this something adults should spend their money on? Some adults are trying to spend their money.

Some adults are trying to spend their money. And these are adults who have the money to spend. It was a weird announcement, right? I mean... Yeah, it's like we're taping this on Tuesday, June the 8th, And I think this is like very fresh news, the latest iteration of the Premier Golf League, which is not the Saudi Golf League, has nothing to do with the Saudis. Apparently, they've been.

We'll see. Yeah. Well, this iteration, they've tried to be very careful to say who they're not. But, you know, there's some outline of how this might work. They get $20 million weekly purses, $4 million goes to the winner. and it seems like they are offering top players on the order of up to $50 million to come join that league and participate in this 18 event season kind of thing. Is that the basic outline that you saw?

It is, but we didn't hear a single thing about a player, nor did we hear a single thing about a course that they've got an agreement with to come over. And so that's going to be the thing that either tips it or doesn't. We know Rory, we thought, had shut that. down number of months ago by saying, nope, I'm all in on the tour. I'm not going to do this. I just, you know, there's a name Justin Rose that gets floated a bunch. Like, are we really going to, I don't want to watch Justin Rose now. Like, get all the guys or I don't want to see it. Well, that's the thing, right? Like, could you see Brooks and Bryson doing it? I could. Could you

see Phil Mickelson doing it? I could. I mean, you know, there are still big names out there. Can they make us care about a team sport outside of the Ryder Cup, though? They're trying to turn into F1. Can they really make us think about it that way? Maybe. Who knows, right? It's impossible to say until it's a thing. We see the names.

We see how they present it. We know that there's tons of opportunity to present professional golf in a more interesting way. That much is a perfectly indisputable starting point, right? Yeah, it is. but it's getting better. I mean, the visual presentation of this sport is night and day one year later than when they opened back up for COVID.

I mean, the drone usage, and by the way, there was no better, no better presentation of that than at the Women's U.S. Open. That's it. I was, I'm glad that you took us right there because I thought the presentation of the Olympic club was kind of amazing. Now, I, um,

tuned into some of what the No, laying up guys were doing because those guys have played it there and they were feeling kind of dismissive about it. It seemed like they felt like the presentation was not accurately capturing Olympic. But I can say for a venue that I've never been to and that my mind's eye only recalls the U.S. Open, you know, a decade ago, that I was surprised by many aspects of it. the elevation changes, the scale of it, how narrow the fairways were. Like I thought all that presentation,

just in terms of setting the scene, giving us a context within which to consider the performance of the women. I thought they did a pretty good job of that. I do want to extend congrats, by the way, to our pal Marina Alex from Meatball with a tie for 26. That was a great performance. And she was on the leaderboard. for a good bit Friday and Saturday.

So well done. I hope this means that her injury issues are completely in the rear of mirror now. What's not in the rear of your mirror is my broken heart for Lexi Thompson because that was just brutal. It was hard to watch. I want to tell everybody criticizing her

for only taking two questions before it got cut off to go fuck off because that was a big, big heartbreak if you understand the arc of her career and a lot of the almost that she's had. it just was it was tough to watch and and kudos as always to our boy Justin Ray who pumped this out

there is something about holding the lead at the Olympic club through 54 holes he shared with us the 54 hole leader or co-leader has never won a lot of ghosts every player to hold that lead in that situation here are the names

Ben Hogan Arnie Arnold Palmer Tom Watson, Payne Stewart, Graham McDowell and Jim Furek, who were both there in 2012, and now Lexi Thompson, like put any golfer on the planet would say, I'd love to be in that company,

except for under that particular circumstance, right? Yeah. It was tough. And I think it's amazing what happens down the stretch to golfers of all types, physically when they're in that pressure moment. It's what's so fun about this game. You don't see guys in the clutch completely leave shots, you know, 20% short when they're playing basketball or, you know, passes 20% offline.

That's what's so great about golf is the body just changes so much. And suddenly she's dumping a routine approach shot on 18 into the front bunker, right? And the ball, she thought she flushed on approach on 17, comes up short. She's got another book. So it just, it was tough to see. she's going to be all right. It's just golf. She's a great player.

What I want to say is I really love the support for the women's game across sport at the moment. Not just in the men's game, but sort of other athletes. It really feels like there's some momentum building around women's golf. Some of that for sure has to be attributable to the fact that it was on primetime. Yeah. On the East Coast at a venerated, venerable venue. Boy, I don't know. That's terrible. Venerated and venerable. Anyway, um, those are words. Yeah, those all count. But look, it was, it felt big time. And, um, the women's game in particular has appealing characters across the board, enormous diversity.

And on top of that, like the amateur performances were, were so compelling. Megaganae looks like she wants, she's going to be a star for the next, you know, 20 years. And so engaging. and so thoughtful. And so, you know, terrific. I hope this continues. I mean, it was really fun to watch.

Yeah, it was. We've had a couple of good moments between Popoff winning the British and this and a bunch in between. So I think it's, it bodes well for what lies ahead. Well, and small plug for my hometown course, the Columbia Country Club is hosting the USGA Girls Jr. in the middle of July, right here, it'll be on the golf channel.

It's the same week as the British Open. So you can watch the British Open in the morning, have your stuff. And then as the afternoon comes on, watch the girls at, again, a course that hosted the U.S. Open in 1921. And you've probably lost how many balls there? I don't want to talk about it. The number of balls, there's a direct correlation between that and the vodka soda lemonade consumption. And so, you know, you used to sneak out there.

You could do a ratio there. In high school, that's where we used to sneak onto those fairways and drink at night. I think it's the case that Megagane and there was another woman who finished in the top 20, another AM, who's also, I believe, eligible to play in this. There's some great young female golf players that are going to be in the nation's capital in mid-July, and it will be on the golf channel. It'll look very cool at this golf course that's got this 120-year. footprint, but. And a hole in the fence on the 7th fairway. No, no, they fixed that hole. You can't get in there anymore.

Speaking of holes in the fence, there was a hole in the schedule because Canada and its own situation with COVID, they canceled the RBC Canadian Open. Poor Pat Mayo does not get to walk out of his front door and go watch the Canadian Open. And they replaced it with an interesting tournament, the Palmetto Championship down in South Carolina at Congaree, which is continuing to climb the ranks in terms of, you know, course rankings to the extent that you invest any time or energy into, you know, wanting to play some top 50 courses.

Congaree keeps climbing up that list. And there's a couple big names playing at this tournament, Dustin Johnson, South Carolina native son and Brooks Keppka also, little U.S. Open tuneup at the Palmetto Championship, Nate, Dog. Well, I'm excited about this because it's like Shadow Creek. It's like some of the other courses that we've gotten to see over this season that just are non-traditional type courses. This thing is built like, you know, it's on an Australian sandlot.

And, you know, it's more Royal Melbourne than Kiowa. Although the guys on the ground there are saying this is like, it's like Keowa meets Pinehurst. Oh, I like both those places. Yeah, we're going to have a lot. This may be the firmest and fastest course of the year. There is no rough on this course. It is 7,800 yards. We're going to have a 645-yard par five.

So you're either in the sand waste, you're in the marsh, or you're in the fairway and on the greens. We're going to see a lot of guys having to use some creative shots this week, some runners, some bumps and runs, using all of the undulation around the green and on the green to get the ball close to the whole. This is going to be a fun one. And like you said, we've got two big stars at the top of this. It's pretty top heavy.

And then a whole mess of field. This feels like one of those old Houston Open type events where it's a tune up for a major and guys are working on things. And therefore you can have a winner that comes out of nowhere. Yeah, the unpredictable nature of this time of year in South Carolina. Carolina, which is true also of up here in the mid-Atlantic, with thunderstorms that pop up out of nowhere. And every day the forecast has to include isolated thunderstorm. The question is whether or not the isolated or scattered thunderstorms will find their way over this portion of South Carolina and what kind of impact that will have. It's going to be hot. And, you know, there's going to be

humidity. That's South Carolina in mid-June for you. And, you know, there is basically, on what you just described, some comps to like the kind of the desert golf. It seems like they're going to, they're going to be allowed, like in many aspects of Kiowa, to put their clubs down in some of the waste areas. So they're not going to be necessarily that penal. But that makes me feel like I'm looking for guys that have a lot of like course experience in like desert kind of scenarios. Like, the Middle East and or Australia, and that leads me necessarily to the Euros. So I'm looking, you know, everybody and their brother has Terrell Hatton ranked very high on there. He's available at 16 to 1 odds. He's got the game. He's got sort of good performance, both in the Middle East

and on links. It's a question of whether or not he's in form because he's been sort of back and forth, but his name is all over the place. What kind of names are you seeing? Well, we know Luke List has the course record here. And we know Kisner is not quite a hometown boy, but he knows a lot about this course. He's very comfortable there. I think you've got to look at some South Africans.

I don't mind the EVR, you know, Eric Van Royan look here. But I also like a momentum play here. There are some guys who just qualified for the U.S. Open who played very, very well. J.T. Posten is one who played terrific and got in. You know, Cole Hammer, I think ultimately did not totally get in, but he was playing really well on those qualifying. I think he lost out in a playoff.

So I'm looking down the board more at some of those guys. Vince Whaley has been a, you know, the stats guys love this guy right now. He's been playing really, really well quietly this year. And he, you can get him at 95 to 1 right now to win this golf tournament. So it feels like guys like that are going to come out of the back of the pack. I don't love Sung Jay play, even though he's played so, you know, historically well in these kinds of events. He just, something's not right with his form. I think we're seeing odds that are too high for guys like HV3, maybe even Snedick or two.

What else? What else smells good to you here? So I'm looking at one statistical category, fast Bermuda Greens. I'm looking at, you know, guys that performed well at Shadow Creek, another Fasio, of course, because there's been some, some idea of drawing some correlations. And if I stick with my, my euros, so those, so the names that, that, with that cross comparison, that look like that could be guys that are comfortable. Ian Polter is a guy, um, that comes to mind. He finished in the top 15 at the CJ Cup out at, uh, Shadow Creek. Yeah, had a recent tea.

too. Yeah. So in form, 16th in strokes gained around the green, 11th in putting over the previous 24 rounds. And he's, uh, he gained four and a half strokes on the Bermuda greens at, uh, Kiowa. So, you know, he's, he's comfortable. Um, Matt Fitzpatrick, another guy who played, uh, well at the CJ Cup. He's been, we keep seeing his name in the top 20. I just didn't love his form like last week. It just, I don't know. Yeah. We, we, we, we, we, we, We would want a little bit more, but just, you know, again, another name. And then for whatever reason, Tommy Fleetwood, you can't forget, you know, Golf Jesus.

He had a top 60 at Shadow Creek, which isn't exactly set the world on fire. But he is inside the top 20 in strokes gained putting on fast Bermuda Green. So if that, if you believe that that's a marker for potential success, then Tommy Golf Jesus Fleetwood could go on a card. Yep. It'd be fun to watch John Pock this week, first pro tournament, college superstar. Let's see if he's got what it takes. Well, speaking of got what it takes, we have coming up here, very special guest, Jason Cokrack, agreed to come on the Fairway Rollin podcast, Nate Dogg, and help us think about early thoughts on the U.S. Open at Torrey Pines, how he's preparing. He's off of his win at the Charles Schwab at the Colonial,

got himself a giant truck, and we talked about bourbon a little bit. We might have come up with a drink for the U.S. Open, Nate, dog. Can't wait to hear. Yeah. So birdie buddies, strap it in. It's Jason Cochrat coming up right now. All right, my Eagle enthusiast,

it is a privilege and an honor to have a two-time PGA tour winning champion on the line right now. Jason Cochrack, welcome to Fairway Rowling, my man. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Always a pleasure to talk to you guys. Yes. So I want to begin with the celebration.

We're about a week out now. So maybe you have not been celebrating all week long. Maybe it's been back to business. But let's tell the good people out there, how did the Coke Wrax get down to celebrate the second? Because the first one, you know, you had a lot of pent up energy for that one. this one now you're a pro at winning I don't think you could ever be a pro at winning maybe Tiger Woods and Phil

and some of those guys could be a pro at winning but two times is twice as nice but yeah I we we did it upright my wife and I we went to Charlotte North Carolina we had this trip planned for a while and I just kind of happened to work out where I won the week before and I got to celebrate with all my buddies back at Charlotte

and we we who have who it up pretty good. I mean, nothing too crazy because, I mean, with COVID protocol still, the places are shutting down. But I'll tell you what, we did a big dinner at Del Frisco's open some nice wine and you got it got in after it pretty good. So finally back home, though, with all my elite bourbon. And I definitely had some very nice course for myself as of the last couple of days since I've been home. Yeah, of course. It makes perfect sense. The thing that I'm most interested in. Well, I'm interested in many things. I shouldn't say most interested. But you want a gigantic truck. And you don't see that every day on tour. Like, lots of times

there are tournaments where you make a hole in one and you get the fancy Mercedes or some other hot rod. This is a gigantic truck from 1946, a true throwback. I think it was like a Dodge. Is that right? Yeah, it's a throwback to a Dodge Power wagon. They replaced the Dodge symbols with Schwab. So it says Schwab on the front and on the back on the tailgate. And then it says power wagon. And I'll tell you what, this thing is a beauty. It's been raining. It got delivered on Tuesday night. And my father-in-law actually had to take to sign for it and put it in the garage and everything else. So he's the only one that's actually driven the thing. I got to start it up with the jacket on during the celebration and whatnot. But today is a nice day outside. And I'm looking forward to a nice

nice little trip out on the road, her maiden voyage, so to speak. Yes, sir. You got to get that out there. Is it big enough for you? I mean, you're not a small fella. No, I'm a big guy. Like I said in my interview, after winning a colonial. I got a big jacket. I'm a big guy with a big check and a big truck. Everything's bigger in Texas. So it is quite tight in the cab, but it is a cool truck. It's something that I'll share for a long time. I mean, you know, everybody likes the trophy, but I mean, this is, this is one hell of a trophy to, to remember a PGA Tour win. Nonetheless, be on that wall with so many greats.

Oh, yeah. Incredible. That big trophy, but, you know, that, that first time riding around in that, that truck with that jacket on, that tartan jacket on will be, uh, will be pretty special. So I'm looking forward to many, many rides with my, my boys and whoever else. So I'm, I'll probably pick up my cousin, Jimmy here in a few, uh, a few hours. and go for a little joyride. Yes, sir. With the jacket on, right?

Well, you know what? They measured me for the jacket, but the jacket is not at the house as of yet. Yes, I understand. Funny thing was during the, I was wearing Phil Mickelson's jacket during the interviews. And it was a little tight for me.

I mean, I'm a little bit bigger than Phil, but, you know, nonetheless, it's still pretty funny. They told me they're like, you're wearing Phil's jacket. Just look on inside the pocket. His name's right there. So sure enough, wearing Phil's jacket.

That's a decent jacket to put on, considering where we've been with Phil the last few weeks. Well, for sure. I mean, him at 50 winning the PJ championship was off the charts for golf and golf in general. So it, you know, pretty special for him to win. And then I win the next week wearing his jacket. So I don't know if they planned that out.

They probably did. Well, it's very cool. I want to talk. a little bit of golf, if you don't mind. One thing about the stories that emerged after you won when you were doing the interviews and so forth was the impact of the Admiral, David Robinson, your David Robinson, your caddy, an esteemed corn fairy player in his own right. Yeah.

And his impact on your putting, because you've had a breakthrough putting-wise. and I want to hear about some of the ways that you guys have kind of tackled the putting conundrum because it's perpetual for all of us. For me, I've been playing golf 40 years and always some new aspect of the stroke. One thing that jumped out is you change putter lengths. And your six four, what was the putter length? you were playing with before you change putter lengths? Well, I had always played a blade cutter, 35 inches long, pretty stock, you know,

conventional grip. And I just kind of, you know, I was pretty hell bent on sticking with that. And, you know, D. Rob, he had helped out a couple guys out on tour before, you know, before he got really into caddying. So he's a wide open book on golf knowledge. I always make fun of him that he forgets more about golf than I'll ever learn. But, you know, it's a fun dynamic duo. I mean, I take care of the ball striking, and he's a damn good green reader.

But a couple years ago, he coaxed me into going left-hand low and more so sticking with the left-hand low for more than like a week or two. And I'd be getting uncomfortable with it, and I'd go back to conventional. But he said, let's stick with this for a month. two months, three months, and just see how it goes. You know, we can afford to do this where we're at in our season a couple years ago. And then he noticed as I was putting left hand low that I, the end of the grip was sort of in my palm, right in kind of this area. Yeah, I can see.

I didn't, I didn't have like both hands completely on the putter. Wow. He was saying, you know, maybe that you'll gain a little bit more control or feel going to a little bit longer putter. because you're really stroking the put very well, but there's just something that's slightly off. And, you know, Betonardi built me up one of these studio stocks. And I went to 36 inches. I did a, you know, I don't know, a few hours in their studio out in Chicago when I was up there for BMW last year and kind of learned what ideal loft would be for me. And I've kind of stuck with that left hand low and a 36 inch putter and really just have DROB, the abbe will look at, you know,

path. Sometimes every once in a while, it might get a little bit too far inside or outside. But, you know, that's the cyclical thing in golf that you kind of go through the ebbs and flows of good putting, bad putting. You know, it's a game that is, you can't perfect it. It's not something that you can, you know, ever, ever perfect. This year, and we're talking about the 2020, 2021 wrap, season, which is the way the PGA tour schedule works, you've had an unbelievable breakthrough.

I looked at the strokes game putting. You are sixth right now, strokes game putting for the season. And you know, you're ball striking. And if you look at just the stats that you had at the colonial, you led the field in strokes gained off the T. You led the field in driving distance. Like those are kinds of things that people are not shocked to hear about the coke rack, because that's how you get down. That's how you play the game. And then you know, that's right. And then fourth and fairways hit second in greens and regulation. Those are things that also, again, a great ball striker, you get on a little bit of a heater. And that's how you win golf tournaments. But the thing, the thing that was so impressive,

seventh in strokes game putting at this event. And that goes along with a season long trend. And it sounds like it's, it's a combination of both like the equipment change, but also something's clicked for you guys in terms of the approach. Is that right? Yeah, I think, you know, we both approach every day for what it is. I mean, he's an incredible green reader. At the end of the end of the day, I have the end result. I get to pick which line I'm going to hit it on. But, you know, he, yeah, I own a lot. He kept me very calm down the stretch. And, you know, we tried to keep it as simple as possible. And, you know, it's, it's been a great, great duo over, over the past four years. I'm glad you mentioned the down the stretch part, because lots of folks made a big deal

about the fact that you went in Jordan Spee's backyard and took us lunch money from him. And, you know, the fans there were properly rooting for, for their native son. And that's cool. Nobody, no, no problem with that. But for you personally, what I was kind of impressed by is, you've now won two very different kinds of ways. When you won at the CJ Cup at Shadow Creek this past fall out in Vegas, you put on, speaking of a heater, you had the low round of the day on Sunday. You went out and shot an incomparable 64 and just took the tournament down and that was it. This thing was a grind.

Like, you know, I watched almost the entire round and it was, you know, a back and fourth, Manu Amano. It was not match play. There's lots of folk that. I heard that. I don't like to hear it. But because you're playing your own ball. It's you and you in the hole. But I'm interested in like it was it had to have been a different experience for you winning that way, right? Yeah, for sure. Out in Vegas was a different animal. The ball doesn't curve as much out there. The greens are as pure as any any golf course I think I've ever played that week. And the putter was on fire. and out there at the CJ Cup. But this at Colonial was a little bit different. I mean, you know, I told a couple people in a couple interviews, I think this, the second one was even tougher than the first one.

You know, I was on the top of my game. I was comfortable. I was ready to go. And, you know, I just told myself that, you know, let this day come to you. Don't get too far ahead of yourself. And, you know, just stay with what's been working. And that's what I told myself with kind of my. head down and, you know, not so much of a grimace, but I wasn't trying to react too much to,

you know, the good or the bad, uh, going on around Colonial. So I, I took a little bit of, um, experience away from the, the Vegas event, uh, into Colonial. I knew I didn't have my best stuff. Uh, I knew I was driving it very well. Um, irons were good, but not, you know, I wasn't hitting it to, uh, you know, tap in length. So it was definitely a grind. I, I hit some bad shots. They had some good shots, but, you know, overall, yeah, I agree with you. I hate the match play, you know, protocol or, you know, whatever you want to call it. But it really wasn't match play. But Jordan and I got far enough out ahead of everybody else that, you know,

somebody would have had to really throw a really, really low round on Sunday to give us a scare. So, you know, I think once we got started, a couple of bogeys early, you know, I got settled in. And, you know, I think sometimes a bogey for me, it might be the best thing for me. It kind of gives me a kick in the ass. And I'm, you know, I was like, all right, well, I need to play. If I'm going to win this thing, I need to shape up and get my stuff together. Yeah, well, we saw what you did on, after the bogey on seven, the ball had to go by-bye. And sometimes that's just, you know, repositioning the energy, reframing the situation.

Then you got up on the T on 8 and hit a beautiful ball. Yeah, I mean, sometimes you can't keep that pent-up energy or aggression or anything else. I wasn't really overly mad. I was just more upset that I hit such a terrible first bunker shot. I did get the plug one up and down, but I was just like, you know what, Jay,

you are a much better player than this. Just, what are you doing? Hit yourself, get it out of the bunker. Maybe try to hole it. You know, if you give yourself seven,

eight feet past the hole, that's the ideal shot. And I, you know, I just got a little too cute, wasn't sticking to my game plan and, you know, what had been working.

And I got a little out of sorts. but I settled in nice, hit a good shot, made a nice spot on that hole. Jordan followed it up with a great wedge shot from, you know, really, I think that's a tough, one of the tougher driving holes on that golf course with the drivers, especially. So, you know, he definitely didn't let me have it, but we both didn't have our A game coming down the stretch. What I'm impressed by and what I want to ask you about is we're really talking about the mental fortitude, the ability to, like, get your head.

right, even during the course of a round. And it's a nice lead-in to what I want to ask you about, which is the U.S. Open, which is two weeks away. It is Torrey Pines. You have a very nice track record recently at Tori. You've been building, you know, piling up these top 30 finishes, a bunch of finishes in the last handful of years at the Farmer's Insurance event out there in February. Tori in February versus Tori in the middle of June, going to be two different kind of venues. I know the setup is going to be different. I looked all the way back to see if you played in 08,

and you did not play that event. I did not. I turned pro in 08, but I wasn't out there yet. Yeah. Well, you had made, you got to play in the U.S. Open in 2007 at Oakmont, right? Yeah, I had qualified through locals and sectionals. sectionals in Cincinnati. I did it a couple times out of that venue. But that was that was a, I played the AM at Oakmont, but the US Open was even a little bit tougher. But got it.

I've got a lot of track record at Oakmont. I mean, it's a it's a one hell of a golf course. But Torrey Pines is going to be a different animal. I know they changed up the fairways. I played played earlier this season there. And, you know, I played nicely, didn't finish very well. But it's a golf course that suits me. Somebody that drives it long, drives it relatively straight. And, you know, if you don't make any real big mistakes and leave it in the right spots, you can play that golf course.

But it all depends on weather, wind, and, you know, how firm the Greens can get. Of course. And that's what I'm interested in hearing about, the Greens. And you mentioned Oakmont. and I swear that I'm not bringing this up just to brag on myself, but I did get to play Oakmont very recently. And part of that experience, I was surprised in my own preparation for that

to find out that they're Po Greens at Oakmont, which is the same surface you will be putting on out at Tori. What's your feeling about Poe? Do you like putting on it? I grew up on Poe Greens. The local country club I grew up on, I had, you know, Po that would eventually, you know, they were bent, but they, by the end of, they were mostly Po, Anna, but, you know, Po is a, it's a great surface if it's taken care of, you know, it's definitely a tougher surface to get as smooth as possible because the growth of that,

the seeds and whatnot. But, you know, when we were talking about a U.S. Open and rolling and firmness, you know, I think when you get them, Po greens that are firm and fast, I think that's, it's some of the tough toughest test in putting that you're going to see. I mean, you know, anything is magnified, you know, any slope, the speed of the greens. I think Poena is to get about as fast as any green complex out there. But Tori Pines will definitely test every facet of your game. Well, I'm excited to see you out there. And, you know, it also always portends the U.S. Open on the calendar.

also lets us know that Father's Day is right around the corner, which is a wonderful thing. Whoever set that up to make Father's Day be the same day as the U.S. Open, I'd like to give that person, you know, a giant hug because it's just brilliant. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's a perfect way for Father's Day. It's a major.

I mean, there's so many great things. I mean, I'm a relatively new father. My dad was over the other day to check out that truck. And, you know, it's a, special thing to be able to, you know, I got a picture in my office here that there's four generations of my great-grandfather, grandfather, dad, and myself all playing golf. So it's, it's pretty cool. Now my dad and myself and my, my boys will extend that into the future. And it's, it's pretty cool. It's super cool. Exactly. Well, you have a gift potentially out there for somebody

that might be listening or should be following you on the Twitter as well. There is, an opportunity to get to the Buffalo Trace Distillery. It's a very easy way to enter this contest, to get yourself a little taste of the Eagle Rare Bourbon, I believe. Yeah, they're giving away a two-night stay for four people. I think they're going to stay at the Stag Lodge at Buffalo Trace. there's going to be a golf day at the PGA tour venue at I think Keynes Trace. Oh, cool.

And you're going to probably drink as much Eagle Rare as you can take sick out. I take it from an experience. I mean, Buffalo Trace is a historic, really cool old place that, you know, I haven't been to too many distilleries, but, you know, Buffalo Trace puts out incredible bourbon year in and year out. I get to represent the Eagle Rare brand, and I couldn't be more pleased to be a partner with them. But it is pretty cool to give this Father's Day gift away. I mean, what better gift than a bourbon, bourbon tasting, a bourbon trip, golf, and bottles of bourbon on Father's Day.

So it's a win-win for any father on Father's Day going into the U.S. Open. And I think it's pretty cool. And myself being a new father, my dad and I getting to enjoy a glass of the Eagle rare the other day in front of that new Schwab truck. Yes. So look, for each of the majors,

my partner in crime, Nathan Hubbard and I, have been preparing cocktails. We made a little, because we like to sip. It's a long day. The Masters, the PGA championship,

it's wonderful. And Tori, has the added bonus for us East Coasters of being primetime golf, primetime major golf, that starts, you know, in the afternoon, goes well into the evening. Now, we've been preparing cocktails, and I'm sure the Eagle Rare folks, this is what I want to throw at you. I'm calling it the Coke Rack Crusher.

Spell with a K, of course. We're going to start with three ounces of the Eagle Rare. And then I want to add in a little jrower. ginger and a little lemon and I wanted a little bit bubbly. Now there was a version of this kind of drink from the U.S. Open a handful of years ago that I'm using as inspiration. That one was called the Fescue Rescue, which was a different kind of whiskey, some lemonade and then some ginger beer. I want to do something that's a little softer on the palate because I want to sip this thing on out well into the evening with the Eagle Rare. I'm going to put a little

splash of lemonade. Sure, we can do that. Little club soda to get a bubbly. A shrub. Do you know the shrubs? Are you familiar with the shrubs? It's kind of, it's like a, it's like a mixer. It's a, but it's got a little sugar in it. It's got some, you know, but, but I want to use ginger. Sort of like a simple syrup. Yes, that's exactly what it is. That's a, you hit it out, the nail on the head. And then, and then we'll make sure that the predominant flavor is the, is the Eagle Rare. We're going to call that the Coke Rat Crusher. What do you think about that? Should we do it? I mean, you know, I was told on my first trip to Buffalo Trace that you should never judge anybody how they like to drink their whiskey.

Everybody likes it a little bit different. And for myself, I drink most of my stuff neat. Of course. Every once in a while, I'll mix a, I'll put a little mixture in there. I'll put it on ice. You know, you can use bourbon in many different ways. But that Coke crack crusher is, it sounds pretty interesting with a little club soda, a little. A little lemonade, a little simple syrup.

We could put some crushed ice in there. We'll keep it right on brand, right? Yeah, we've got a crushed ice and maybe like an orange peel or, you know, a cherry or something. We're so ready. We're so ready. I'm going to make one and then I'll take a picture of it and I'll send it to you. And then we can see if we can pull this thing together. I have one last question for you.

I know we're about out of time. Cleveland Browns this year, the over under 10 and a half. half wins Vegas has it has it. I kind of like the over. I like Kevin Stefanski. I love Stephansky. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think I think the team's rounding into shape. I think health is going to play a big part in that. If they can keep all of their defense healthy and out of trouble or whatever, and I think the offense will take care of business. I mean, Baker's been pretty solid. I mean, everybody kind of gave them a little bit of a hard time last year, I mean, he still played pretty solid, to be honest.

I went to quite a few games. And I'll tell you what, I like the over as well. I like what they've been doing in the offseason. And, you know, you're, you can't, you can't take, take me out of Cleveland. I'm a diehard brownie fan. I know it. I know it. All right, Jason Cochrak, we always appreciate you coming around.

The Cochrak Crusher for the U.S. Open, Eagle Rare, delightful bourbon. Congrats on the win. Keep enjoying. Head down. Let's get another couple of weeks of work in. in here and go take care of business to worry, my brother. I love it. I love it.

Thanks again. All right, my Eagle enthusiasts, there you go. Our enormous thanks to Jason Coke, the Cokewreck crusher. We will be putting the ingredients out on the socials, the Twitter, and the IG.

I mean, why not? Enjoy one of those things. Lots of stuff to look forward to with the U.S. Open next week. As we do, we'll have a show up for you on Monday, June the 14th to get the U.S. Open week off and rolling on a good foot. We have a special surprise guest, an actual performer on the major stage who's been performing

quite well in the majors, joining us for that show. I think we're going to get the homie Kevin Clark to help us do some storylines as well. Of course, we'll be back midweek, June the 16th, with a little bit of analytics and picks. our guide, Justin Ray, should be back from paternity leave and available to join us. And then we will be on Sunday evening for the end of the U.S. Open. But that's all stuff to look forward to next week. And we'll tell you the whole schedule again. We'll probably jump in a locker room or two while we're at it.

But my birdie buddies, it's a glorious time to be a golf fan. I hope you're all able to get out there. Throw a peg in the ground. And please let's hit one down the middle.