Fairway Rollin' - Johnson's Surprise for Spieth at The Northern Trust, and Malcolm Gladwell (Ep. 47)

Episode Date: August 29, 2017

The Ringer's Joe House and Geoff Shackelford break down Dustin Johnson's come-from-behind win this weekend in The Northern Trust (02:00), frustrating elements of the Glen Oaks Club (05:030), why Jordan Spieth can't seem to close out tournaments (08:00), and leaked pictures of Tiger Woods (20:00). Then, House has a conversation with Malcolm Gladwell about his episode of 'Revisionist History' that examined private golf courses in Los Angeles (31:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Let's go to the Shackhouse. Greetings from Carlsbad today. I'm in Calloway Land. How are you today? That's nice. Did they let you touch any equipment check? No, no equipment. The equipment has been taken away.

We're redoing the Performance Center here. So it's the less glamorous side of golf architecture. Well, that's exciting. I can't wait to invite myself out there. Remind me, is the Performance Center at Calloway, something that the general public can sign up for and go experience the full Callaway treatment? No, so thank you for asking.

It is a design lab more than anything. Ah, the design lab. Yes, and that's what we're trying to do is make it a little more design friendly for testing clubs and hitting shots and all that good stuff. So it's a pretty cool place, but of course you have to be a very special person to be designing golf clubs today. And God knows you and I will not be doing that and shouldn't be doing that. We are not special people.

And speaking of which I am in a not, well, I'm in actually kind of a special place. I'm in Orlando, Florida, of all things at the motor check. A little bit of Disney. Did you get to watch some of the spellbinding first round of the playoffs? It really was spellbinding and I did get to watch more than a little bit. How about that? It was a good finish. But it definitely lacked a little bit of an energy.

Yeah. Something was missing. Well, notwithstanding. Maybe so, but it's still fourth highest. rated television golf broadcast? Yeah, I got a little a little tip that those ratings

may be coming down. And we should say we are doing this show thinking of all the people in Texas. And that may be one of the reasons that various cities in Texas watching what the computer thought was golf and was actually live

coverage of the tragedy taking place in our fourth largest city in this country. So we'll see. We'll find out. The point is, nice tournament I had this year. And so anyhow, it was pretty exciting to see those two guys go head to head. And the contrast in their games, I think was really fun. And then, of course, the 18th with DJ just taking that incredible people unhappy like Ian Poulter about is to take advantage of the course that only five players in the field could do so, which I thought was some rather whining from Ian, which is saying a lot. because I think he knows better.

But feeling like that was a poor hole to decide a golf tournament on because one player had such a huge advantage. Oh, so that's an interesting segue. I did not see any of that today. The three takeaways I had from the tournament in the first place, you touched on it, unbelievable leaderboard that fulfills precisely the goal of this playoff format, right? This is why you have this narrowing,

down to 125, it is expressly intended to put the very best players together and a drive towards, you know, a conclusion. I was going to say climax, but I want to stay away from that because I'm going to talk about Tigers. That was a fine driver later. Yeah, right. So, so in that respect, you know, kind of nice pat on the back, right, to the PGA and I mean to the tour and to the designers of this concept in a way, right? Little feather in their cap to that. No, I can't agree with that. You're not prepared to go there.

It's ridiculous. The whole system is built. The problem is they call it a playoff, okay? So this is your problem. You have a P word problem. I have a P word problem. I do have a problem with the idea of using that word. And then protecting people, coddling them to get them

the finish and resetting points. I really believe if it was a true playoff and there was a real urgency to it, it would be fascinating. It would be fascinating if Hideki Matsuyama comes out, misses a cut, and loses points. Or maybe somebody has an amazing year and they go, you know what, I'll see it Eastlake. I'm going to take my chances and rest. You know, there could be dynamics that are different, but it's just not set up that way. It's set up to keep people around and reward the season-long race, which I understand. but you can't have both worlds. That's all I'm saying.

You either need to make it a real cutthroat playoff and thank the season points race for getting people there or something else. Because right now it's just flat. Well, it nearly accomplishes what you're after. And it's hard to follow. This week and next week and still advance, right? He could.

Yeah, he could have if he wanted to. So you're, but you want a true buy week all the way to the championship. That fits more of what you're after? If you're going to reward guys for performers during the season? Yeah, what I'm after is fine, get them there, whatever. But when it comes to the playoffs, you need to play really well. And if you stink it up or you skip tournaments, which has happened,

that you get severely penalized. And they don't want to do that because this was designed by algorithms around Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson and getting them to the finish. And I understand television watch stars. But playoffs are about drama. They're about upsets. They're about strange things happening. And that I do think when they are going to see some of these changes.

I think you're going to see one last playoff event. I think when they get to East Lake, there should be a, I think that I've been hearing rumblings that that's what they're building towards. And then the last day, you know, the last four standing, the last eight standing or something. I feel like we're quibbling a little on the margins, though. I mean, this is still in sort of, you know, golf competitive telemark. golf entertainment, a pretty new concept. And they've been tweaking it over the years. And I think, you know, sort of format-wise, the thing that's awkward is the timing,

which is, you know, catching, trying to catch the sporting public at a dead moment on the sports calendar. And then the collision with football, NFL football, that needs to get cleaned up. And it sounds like, you know, the folks, the powers that be are working on that. I, I am. We'll see. Two other takeaways that I'm interested in getting your thoughts on. So I thought Glenn Oaks really acquitted itself quite beautifully.

I thought it was a terrific challenge. I liked the variety of holes. I liked the drama on 17 and 18 of DJ and Speeth. I mean, Speeth saved an unbelievable par on 17 and then DJ had to do it on 18 during, you know, the regulation play. So I didn't have any problem with 18. and 18 for DJ was the ultimate risk reward and he saved. I mean, he pulled it out at exactly the highest leverage moment, right?

I mean, that was, he was going to be a swing or swim. Don't give me the high leverage. Well, how else do you want to call it? Call it something else then. Call it whatever you want. The sudden death playoff. The big moment. It was a big moment.

And he brought out the big one and he put it on the table. He did it. I completely agree. And that's the problem with somebody like Poulter complaining about that. There's two different debates. There's two guys hit it so far that they render things obsolete. It's in the game for that kind of distance. And that was the beauty of that hole, was that there should be a place.

Alastair McKinsey, all these guys wrote about that. You don't want to discourage risk-taking and somebody who uses their power that way. And he did it. That was pretty ballsy to do what he did, but he didn't go so well in regulation. And he pulled off a huge shot. And it was phenomenal. So, no, that was great. I love that finishing hole.

Just in that way, it was really neat. Right. We're in total agreement. The other observation, it wasn't, he didn't win it on the drive. He won it on the 95-yard or that he stuck to three feet. So it was the combination of power infidess. Right. But what people seize, and I've been guilty of it, you seize on a number that

it's eye opening like that. And you can understand why people get kind of, I mean, we did it, the U.S. amateur for four or five days. We just could, we just were in awe of some of these driving distance numbers. But then you also watch the way they play the rest of the hole and it's pretty darn good, too. But it's easy to get caught up in those numbers because they are kind of eye opening. It's eye opening under the circumstances and that for sure. I mean, the, you know, the length of drives over the course of the last handful of seasons has been, you know,

I don't, I'm not, I'm interested in seeing data-wise whether this season was, you know, markedly different from the past two or three seasons. I, I expect it to be all in line. I don't think that this season, it didn't strike me as being, I haven't seen any sort of macro analysis of driver distance or driving distance among the pros this year. We're going to know, we'll know pretty soon. They, you know, like that drive doesn't count in the number that the governing bodies are looking at. I mean, they only look at the driver hole numbers, which has kind of made some people think they're kind of cherry picking the numbers.

But we'll find out. I don't care. I mean, I'm interested in the entertainment component of it. And nothing was more entertaining than watching him take out that big stick and hammer it. So that was, you know, it delivered. It was exactly what the viewing public wanted in that moment. You know, he took an opportunity and created an extra bit of drama where it otherwise, you know, wouldn't have. existed and that again kudos to the golf course now here's the other thing drama-wise that i want

to get your thoughts on this is the third uh time jordan spith has had a lead in kind of recent memory and and recent experience and had a little bit of a of a step backwards um letting folks you know catch up to him and this time he wasn't able to close the door now this is not a knock on Spieth at all. I'm just sort of curious about your thoughts on him kind of flirting with disaster and how it took to me the extraordinary performance by DJ, the flawless performance by DJ is what permitted DJ to jump over Jordan. And Jordan, we didn't get that out of Coutcher at the British. And Daniel Berger was right there with Spieth and it took something extraordinary from Spieth to slam the door at the travelers.

Is there anything about what you observed in Jordan's play? Now, Jordan shot two under on the back nine. His fault, he let DJ back in on the front nine. But is there anything in terms of what you've observed these last three tournaments I'm talking about here where Jordan had a lead and somebody from the field caught him? Is there anything, any conclusion to reach from that? I don't think so. No, I think he gets a little erratic still with the driver that he isn't very pleased about that component of his game. But I think the thing that you, if you're evaluating that performance, you have to keep in mind.

And we saw it with several players, they had that basically wedge out rough right off the fairway. And to have, to just miss a drive and just be in that and see, I see what some of the players who are out there now, how strong they are and see some of the shots they hit. told you how thick and ridiculous it was. And we don't see that very often anymore. That rough that's just right off the fairway that's just absurd chip-out stuff. I like it. You used to love that. I still do.

So there you go. I'm old. That's why I'm old. So you can blow it 30 yards right into the trees and get a nice lie off the stuff that's pushed down by the fans and have a recovery. But you just miss a T-shot and you're screwed. I hate that kind of golf. It's dreadful. And by the way, the one of the reason the energy was a little.

bit flat there. They see that kind of set up and they just, they just get annoyed very quickly. That's some just, I know these are first world problems we're discussing, but. It didn't affect the glorious leaderboard. No, no, it didn't. Other than, you know, a few people who, who didn't have great weeks. So anyhow, you know, great, great, great group of names. More importantly, this week is the TPC of Boston, which has two new holes. Gilhance is updated the 12th and 13th, and it's just always one of the best attended events and usually one of the most interesting tournaments and always has a great leaderboard helped by, of course, the playoffs. And it may be the second to last one, so soak it up. We're not sure what the fate of this tournament

is going into the 2019 reimagined schedule. So this tournament is one of my favorites. Yeah, me too. And I understand like, you know, how it falls on. on the calendar and why it's at risk in terms of its place. But I absolutely love the Friday to Monday format over Labor Day weekend. I wish every holiday that golf falls on would play out that way. I enjoy it very much. It was something to watch, though. I refuse to believe they're going to kill this event.

But, you know, Jay Monaghan, the commissioner of the tour, used to be the tournament director. We talked to him about that when he was on earlier this year. and they've got great crowd support, whereas the New York event is less consistent. But you know how these bodies of golf are. They're all obsessed with the New York market. And so they're going to oversaturate that market through 2024. Meanwhile, up in that area of Boston, where that course is not that centrally located. And it's not a perfect spectator course, but it's pretty good.

And they get great crowds, great support. So I just don't know how they get rid of it. So anyway, but we'll see. They got a couple more like old holes, and it'll be another fun finish, I think. Yeah, Gills, I think Gilles pretty excited to see what the guys think of number 12. Some of the feedback he's gotten. He was telling me he's been pretty funny so far. But, you know, the guys haven't seen it.

Somebody sent him a drawing, and they asked them to tell what they thought, which is not. That's like somebody getting a transcript of this brilliant conversation we're having and evaluating it off of that. So instead of hearing our. I dare. I dare somebody to do that. We have a whole bunch of things, Shaq, we haven't been on in a couple of weeks. We have a whole slew of things that we're not going to talk about.

We're just going to touch on them. We're not going to talk about them. Four or five or six topics. But before we get there, how about a word from our pals at Seekek? As you know, Shaq, buying tickets to sports and concerts can be complicated and confused. using, but there's a simpler, better way to buy, and that is with Seekkeek. Seek is the smartest, easiest way to get tickets to live events. They have a seamless mobile experience.

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Make Seatgeek your go-to's ticket source for all things, PGA and beyond. Beautiful. And also, of course, pals, we are brought to you by Callaway. At this point, there's no way, Shaq House, friends, you have not heard about the epic driver with jailbreak technology. We gave one of those bad boys away at the master's time. It's a game-changing driver, and it is definitely living up to its name, and the proof lies in the tremendous increase.

in ball speeds that pros and amateurs like me and Shaq's not quite an amateur. He's better than amateur. We are seeing unbelievable increase in ball speeds from that jailbreak technology. Epic is pushing the boundaries of performance to a new level, which is why Epic is the number one selling driver in 2017. So ask yourself, why are you not playing Epic? Speaking of not playing Epic, here are four or five things that we're not going to talk about. And the very first one, speaking of playing with big drivers, did you, did you see the pictures?

There were some pictures that hit the internet. It was kind of at a weird time in the news cycle. Tiger Woods made an appearance on the internet with a former girlfriend. Did you see those pictures? We're not going to talk about it, but did you see them? Better than most. Wow. We're not talking about it. Yeah. All I can say, Shaq. Wow. All right, tell me one thing on your list. we're not going to talk about. Well, we're not going to talk about because I'll just bramble on forever about the epic U.S. Amateur here in Los Angeles and the upcoming Walker Cup, which we will talk about. I'm going to force you to hear about the Walker Cup at some point, probably after,

and we line up a couple of guests, because it will turn out to be another epic event in golf and really one of the most amazing. But no, I'm not going to belabor the greatness of the U.S. Amateur and wear you down with that. I think it's worth. That was my positive one. I was trying to keep it light. I have a feeling you're trying to get something negative out of me, though. No, I'm not trying.

I'm psyched to hear about the Walker Cup. I'm not kidding. And that is being competed this year at the LACC. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will get in a plug because we do need some people to come out. It was a little embarrassing at the U.S. amateur that we didn't have a crowd until Sunday following the match.

But the Walker Cup house is the best spectating event in golf. I apologize to the people at the Masters. They have the best event in golf. But for pure spectating, there is nothing like a Walker Cup. You have eight singles matches the first day, 10 the second day. You've got foursomes in the morning both days. You walk right with the players. You get to hear them, talk with their caddies.

You get to see some of the gamesmanship up close. You get the tension. You're on one of the greatest golf courses on the planet. In the middle of L.A. You get to park on the beautiful South course. And if you do, please be nice to our nice, beautiful hazards that we just created over there. you're right by Westwood, by Beverly Hills. You can go have a drink at the new Waldorf Astoria right down the street or the peninsula

or any, you know, important places in the city of L.A. are right there. It's an amazing event. And so if anybody's around or thinking of coming, the last one at the National Golf Links was wild. So it was, you get to watch. You mean, President Bush was there, Michael Bloomberg. There are all sorts of interesting people. Steve Croft.

I would talk to him. It's a long list of name dropping. I could do. But it's amazing. And the players are just, the passion that there's 10 from the U.S., 10 from Great Britain and Ireland, it's a blast. And future stars. I was a forever devotee to the Walker Cup based on the last at the national, watching the national on television. Yeah. You know, speaking of better than most. Frankly, yeah. So the good news is Fox will be on six hours a day, Saturday and Sunday. So there'll be lots of coverage.

And you'll get to see LA Country Club where the U.S. Open's going to be played. And most people have never seen it, or if they have, they've just driven by, and it's a chance to walk the grounds, or if you're watching the telecast, it'll be amazing. And there's no PGA tour golf that weekend. So it should get some eyeballs on Fox Sports One.

All right, cool. Well, that was a long discussion of the topic that we weren't going to discuss. you should at least mention the outstanding one-two finish for the for the us. And Doc Redmond and Doug Gim, is that right? Oh, I mean, that was an incredible end. And, you know, usually in matchplay, you get a match where it has great moments, but then at some point somebody starts to pull away or both players start to get a little bit tired or ragged. These two, they weren't as good in the morning, but of course, they finished off the morning

roundhouse at Riviera with rock hard greens playing it pretty tough with a 31 and a 32 on the back nine for the two of them. And they, yeah, they made a few one or two bogies to have one hole and they made a few parts. But the afternoon match was just breathtaking. The puts made. And it was one of those kind of, and then it went to sudden death and it was sort of sad that anybody had to lose. But then, of course, I went to the 10th hole Riviera and it didn't pass. out well for Doug Gim. And this kid, Doc Redmond had never played Kukuya. It'd never been anywhere in California,

I think, to play golf. Never seen really good Paula Greens like these. It was just an amazing performance. He made everything, and he's going to be, it's only 19, goes to Clemson. So he'll be on that Walker Cup team as well, Doug Gim, and Doug's a senior at Texas and a great player.

And his dad was a real character watching him, Cady for him. So it was great for the US Amador, which let's be honest, house is kind of it's taken if I like when they're in their college gear or Doug was wearing he's a diehard Cubs fan

he was wearing Cubs stuff and really inspired by their win in the World Series I don't like seeing guys out there in corporate hats it just doesn't I think it takes away from and has taken away from amateur golf

I mean this with all due respect I don't care but I did want to make sure that we gave Doc and Doug a shout out because you hit the point. They're both on that Walker Cup team. Another reason to check out that Walker Cup broadcast. Now, we have one other topic that we're not going to talk about at length.

Roy McElroy? I'm going to talk about Roy McElroy. We're not going to talk about Roy McElroy. We're going to talk about Roy McElroy. We're not going to talk about Roy. He said he's really looking forward to time off to get back to the gym so he can get stronger so he can hit more balls even though he's hurt and he keeps hurting himself. Is that what we were not going to talk about?

So here's what's crazy about that, and I don't want to talk about it for very long. The sheer proximity in announcements from the moment that he got up on the podium, and I don't remember the event. Was it at where was he? Where he said, that's it, I'm done. I really need the rest.

What was that event? The PGA championship, he was saying he was going to evaluate. He didn't commit fully, but he was pretty much saying I'm likely shutting it down. I'm moving in that direction. Right. And it made sense. It's exactly what a lot of us who have been watching him this season and felt kind of disappointed by his, the way the season has gone for him just because of again, I say this too many times, his unbelievable talent. And it looks like this year is going to be a lost year because he's playing under duress. And he's had, you know, multiple moments of duress. He's had, you know, multiple moments of duress.

had injury duress. He's had equipment duress. And, you know, it seemed like finally he'd reached kind of the breaking point. And it was barely a week later. Again, we're not really talking about this. Barely a week later. That he announces, well, I'm going to, I'm going to give the full playoff schedule a go. Even though I acknowledge that I'm pretty exhausted and the best thing would be for me to shut it down, let my body rest and recuperate. I'm going to give the playoffs a go. So here's my thing that I don't want to talk about, Shaq. Who do you think put the idea in his head that maybe he should keep playing?

Where do that come from? I don't know. I don't know. You know, she's got some, they're doing some renovation work. Maybe she didn't want him around playing designer. I don't know. Well, that's very slick. I can't think of anybody else.

That's a very charitable way of thinking about it. and we're going to use that charity. I want you to keep that charitable view because we caught up with our pal, Malcolm Gladwell. I had him a couple weeks ago. We were able to knock out some dialogue around McDonald's French fries.

We're trying to bring back the OG French fries. The French fries that were cooked in a compound that included the old beef tallow, the old divine McDonald's French fries. We wanted to bring them back. But, you know, I could not let Malcolm escape without sitting him down and making him, you know, share with me where he was coming from on his diss of golf. Because his very first revisionist history this season, the second season of his outstanding podcast.

I'm a Malcolm fan generally. But he dis golf in a way that was unacceptable. And we called him on it when it occurred. I used an F word. I told him to F himself. and he was gracious enough to go ahead and indulge a little conversation with me about where he was coming from and what the idea was and why he was he's taking on golf and you'll get you I'm not sure if you've had a chance to listen to this yet Shaq have you had a chance to listen to it no in my epic tech disaster day today that was on my list and I also didn't get to listen but I did listen first though to the conversation on House of Carbs which was a great episode but I just want to paint a picture for your house I'm listening to you, and you're so sweet and gentle to them.

It was just touching. I'm walking at the farmer's market, listening to the show, looking all these beautiful, fresh fruits and vegetables and healthy food, and listening to you two talk about trying to get these french fries back to where they're supposed to be with the beef tallow and really, really just so people will go there and drink more Coca-Cola and eat these things. No, no, no, no. And then thinking of the evil game of golf, which gets people,

out exercising. Granted, a lot of rich people, and I understand that Malcolm doesn't like that and taking up prime real estate. But I just thought it was an interesting juxtaposition that he's working so hard to get McDonald's back up and to its rightful place and hating golf. I was struggling with that. As I looked at beautiful fruits and vegetables. Well, you'll be mildly relieved. I don't want to, I'm going to let the bit speak for itself. but Malcolm did confess at the outset that part of how strong he came at that was for the purposes of the podcast. I mean, you know, he is as nothing else. Yeah.

You know, he's an entertainer as well as, you know, the many, many, many talents he possesses. So he knows how to take, he knows, he knows a hot take, Shaq. He knows how to deliver a hot take. And as we discussed before, it's important for golf to hear these things to see how people perceive it. and these are things that they're going to keep happening for the sport. And some of them are legit. A lot of them are not. So I get that.

I just, and I think he is an entertainer. And I love the way he researches and thinks about things. I just don't feel like his logic on it was solid. And that's probably why you told him to F off in the show. How did that go over? Did he hear the actual audio? Did he listen? We didn't cross that bridge.

I don't know. All right. Let's hear this conversation with Malcolm. I was sitting across the table from him, so I left it alone. Yeah, let's jump over and hear this chat with Malcolm. Early in the, it was the first episode of Revisionist History this season, which was golf. I think that one was called a Good Walk spoiled. A famous Mark Twain line about golf.

I'm sure you're familiar. Indeed, indeed. I myself, not only am a lover of golf, but I happen to host, a co-host, a golf. focus podcast here on the Ringer podcast network called Checkout. And I had to take a little bit of umbrage with your observations in your golf podcast. And the reason, now look, you took on some interesting elements of kind of golf related

complaints that are fine and well suited. But you had to say that you hated. golf and you wanted everybody to hate golf too. I was just, that was just a, that was a, I was taking some liberties to get people like yourself stirred up. I was stirred. It was the first episode of the season and I feel like he got open with a bang. And I thought, what better thing?

But I mean, listen, who watches the majors? I do. I don't watch normal PGA events. Sure. I have watched, I mean, I've watched every master's for 25 years. I mean, I watched the, when Nicholas came storming back in 80s. who was glued to the television? I was. So I don't hate golf. What I hate is when golf courses, particularly the fancy ones in L.A. are getting taxpayer subsidies. That's just wrong.

So this is interesting to me. I had not heard of Proposition 13 until your podcast. So thank you very much for introducing me to that. And it's effing, mind-blowing in the sense that it's basically a resolution that was passed in 1978, you know, by the California. legislature that froze the property tax. If you owned any property in 1978, the property tax that you would pay would be 1% to 2% higher each year for as longest of it. That is, that is, I'm sorry, I have to curse again. That is fucking incredible. Right? In and of itself. And that has cost the state of California. I don't know if we get up to the teed word, but it's in the hundreds of billions of dollars in missed opportunity with property tax.

I mean, think about something as stupid as the water challenge that California is confronted by. Or the rising tuitions at Cal, I mean, the Cal system used to be the greatest public university system in the world. The single highest income tax, the United States of America on state residents is in California. it's essentially the trade-off that they've made for, you know, to pay the price of this frozen property tax concede. It's absurd. It's absurd. It's, you know, people, I mean, it's impossible even to have a kind of reasonable conversation anymore about it because there's nothing to say. One, and the politicians every year that come to bear take a look at it and say, you know,

we just can't muster the political appetite. Now, at some point, we're 40 years in at this. the folks enjoying this, notwithstanding all the grandfathering and exceptions and everything. And your complaint really runs to the exceptions that apply to the Country Club. You know, they were able to successfully, you know, broker an arrangement. Just to be clear, L.A. Country Club, which is probably the land on which L.A. Country Club in Beverly Hills is based, is probably worth $10 billion. They are paying $120,000 a year in property tax. $120,000 a year on $9 billion a property. That is like, that's so unbelievable.

These are some of the richest people in America who belong to that club. And they're basically paying pennies on the dollar. But they're also paying the highest income tax, you know. They're residents of the state of California. So they're paying through their income tax. Yes. Well, I mean, someone who's a resident of New York State. I don't have any sympathy for New York City.

I mean, I pay, unlike them. I don't even not only do I pay New York State property taxes I pay New York City City tax income taxes on top of that that's right that's right so I don't have any Well I'm not you're not going to hear me muster a big defense of Can I make can I can I bring up please I I brought this up with Simmons he was curiously muted On the subject of the special tax breaks for Los Angeles private country clubs and the Thought occurred to me is it possible that our patron saint Bill Simmons belongs to one of those white guy privileged country clubs?

I've never been to one with him. I don't know one way or the other. Wait, he's never taken you to a... I haven't played golf in Los Angeles yet, which is, you know. Wait, that's unbelievable. He's lived there a long time. These are some of the greatest golf courses in the country. I have a long way to go.

I've only been doing this podcast 18 months. You're allowed, by the way, the one golf course in L.A. That is not a private golf course. That does play real property taxes is Riviera. So I have no problem with you playing Riviera. Okay. Oh, wow, thank you. That's the best.

I want to play there. I do want to play LACC. It has some historical elements. Yeah. No, Riviera is the, I've actually, I've only, I've looked at it Riviera and I wanted to run around it, but I've never, of course, I don't think of golf. Well, I want to give you a teeny tiny bit of hard time also. I understand the idea of focusing some ire on those.

clubs and the imbalance in terms of what they do. But your complaint really runs to a failure of vision, as much as anything, a failure of vision in the city planners in Los Angeles to build in natural Greenland and Parkland, which is kind of a stunning misstep in view of places that you and I have both lived, cities that have managed to capture green and city and accommodate development around green spaces. Yeah. L.A. is so weird in that respect. I always have a weird experience. It doesn't make any sense because the weather is so perfect, you can't imagine a better city to have park land. I mean, it's like people would use the parks, could use the parks every day of the year. I mean, it's, yeah, I don't, it, the whole thing is nuts. I mean, I was just,

I just said I was in Europe and I was in, um, uh, Frankfurt in Berlin, mostly Berlin. But in all of those cities, I'm a runner. You can run. There are a million places to run. I mean, green spaces. Like, I was in, I spanned on my way to Frankfurt. I stopped in Leipzig. Like, who's ever heard of Leipzig? And in Leipzig, I went from my hotel. I walked for 10 minutes and I was in the city center. And I was at, I went to the river. And they have a park that runs on out of the side of the river for miles. Sure. You're basically in the country within 10 minutes. You can run for as long as you want on a lovely winding, you know, gravel path. It's just like, And, you know, and we spend all this time in this country,

bemoaning the fact that obesity is our number one social problem. Yeah. No question about it. And we do nothing to make it easier for people to go out and exercise. So, I mean, that is one. My one with respect to my golf thing, I feel bad about attacking a physical activity. Right. You're trying to vilify.

I do. I do. I do. I knew 15 years old on that my nine-holler that's 10 minutes away from my house, learning the game with my pals. I just would be, I'd feel better if rich people weren't playing golf at the expensive. Well, it felt like it was a little bit of a proxy, you know, for maybe taking on maybe like this guy in charge of our country.

Here's one. Since we're talking about golf courses. The time this really struck home was I was in Atlanta and I was, there's a beautiful public course in the middle of Atlanta just to the west of Buckhead, northwest of Buckhead, like half mile. I don't know if you've ever played it. And there's attached to it as a public park.

The public park is like 50 acres and it's crammed with people and the golf course is the most gorgeous 300 acres overlooking downtown Atlanta that you've ever seen. And I just think, you know what? Come on. It should be flipped. You're in the middle of Atlanta.

I can't speak to that. Yeah. But if you ever in Atlanta, you should play that course because it is... Yeah, is the park, Piedmont Park? No. Piedmont is much closer to Midtown, Atlanta. But this is well north of that. I need to get, yeah.

My sister lives in Atlanta and I've only visited her once. I'm not a very good brother. She's been there for five years. I've got to do better. On that note, Malcolm Gladwell, thank you so much for joining us here on House of Carls. This was a delight. Thank you, my friend. Thank you. Thank you very much for record from Malcolm.

And we thank Malcolm from doing that, despite the fact that House was a little hard on. Of course, I was wonderfully kind to him. So the makers of the number one fairway woods and golf, the latest red-hot fairway wood from Calloway is, of course, the supercharged version of a name you might be very familiar with. The new steelhead XR Fairway Wood with its recontorred, the old, good old Hawkeye Soul, an explosive face-cup technology. The steelhead X-R is longer and more versatile than ever. It's available now. So go out and hit that Steelhead XR from Callaway, which was developed right below where I'm sitting. We're going to give them a little break while we redo the facility.

They won't let you touch one. Yeah. I'm going to go try on my way down. So anyway, good chat. Working off Labor Day, but then we'll be back the Monday, September 9th and 10th, and we'll preview the BMW and kick some good things around here on the... Shagos. Part of the Ringer podcast network.