Fairway Rollin' - Talking PGA Tour-LIV Golf Leaks, LPGA, and Rocket Mortgage Classic With Jason Sobel

Episode Date: June 28, 2023

House and Hubbard are joined by The Action Network’s Jason Sobel to delve into the leaked details of the PGA Tour-LIV Golf merger (03:05). They then discuss Ruoning Yin’s KPMG Women’s PGA Championship win at the age of 20 (30:19) before giving a quick preview of this weekend’s Rocket Mortgage Classic (39:30). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Joe House and Nathan Hubbard Guest: Jason Sobel Producer: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's a new year and I have a new podcast here at the Ringer, Offguard, hosted by me and my guy, Pasha Higigi. Austin and I go way back and talk so much hoop already that we figure it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on all of these conversations. Every week, Pasha and I will hit on the biggest stories happening in the league. And get Austin's perspective of someone currently hooping in the NBA. Tap into Offguard every Friday on the Ringer NBA show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Hello, friends, podcasts, unlike any other. Oh, yes, my friends, we've done it. This is Paraway Roll.

A golf podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. I am your starter, Joe House, joined as I am every week by our incomparable accomplice, our PGA tour, boots on the ground. Our new coat boots on the ground. Maybe we'll have a name someday. Nathan Hubbard is along. And then the Fairway Rowland Ombudsman, we need somebody looking over our shoulder to make sure that our own misdeeds

are properly identified and called out. You know him and love him from the Action Network and from the Sirius XMPGA Tour channel. Our home boy, Jason Sobel, is rejoining us to help talk through this moment in professional golf. My Birdie Buddies, it's a three ball. The teaser in the ground.

We're swinging. at the same time because that's how we do here on Fairway rolling. Sobs, Nate, what's up, fellas? What's up, boys? I would like to start this off by first of all, thanking you guys for having me back on. I will point out to the listeners that we all hung out in L.A. during the U.S. Open.

We went to a really nice dinner together. I enjoyed your company. I gave you both shit for not having me on the podcast for a while. And so I'm sure that you guys got together and said, yeah, it's rocket mortgage week, kind of a slow week. We can have Sobel on. It's not going to hurt anything too much. And so I appreciate you having me on. Sobel.

You are invited on this podcast 24-7 because what we really do on this podcast is read your stuff and parrot it. So you're the Ryan Seacrest of golf. It's hard to get your time. It is hard to get your time. And I mean that we need the ombudsman. come in and tell us where all our missteps are occurring. I want to start big picture wise because this is kind of how we started off the year with you, J.S.

you came on and we kind of like set the tone. What do we anticipate coming out of the tour season? Well, we just had our last elevated event before the playoffs. And Kiko, Kigin-Bragley takes it down. It was not his home course or his hometown, you know, the Twitter Rati, very careful to point out he hails from new england but he's not from connecticut so let's make sure that we draw that nonsensical distinction great job by by kegan um 62 63 63 64 68 that's pretty good um let's talk about the big picture moment though also occurring this week we had the leak of

the framework agreement between the pGA tour and the piff And we also just last night had a marathon meeting five hours plus it's been reported of the players and the board convening. I'm talking about the players that are on the board. So to walk through and start putting some meat on the bones in terms of an approach to a potential deal with the PIF. So let me start with kind of the low hanging fruit, Jason Sobel. because this is a schedule and a presentation of professional golf that seems very unlikely to be repeated ever again in the future in terms of the condensed nature of these events and getting the very best players together, you know, nearly 20 times between January and the beginning of July. How would you sort of measure the success of what we've experienced so far? Yeah, I guess if Nate's going to make a Ryan Seacrest reference here, then I'll basically make a Wheel of Fortune reference.

And there's a lot of fortune going around, maybe too much fortune in this new schedule. And I think that's probably prompted why we've seen everything that we've seen over the last three or four weeks with the framework agreement with the public investment fund. And this is why everything's moving forward because the PGA tour, essentially, this is not the sponsors paying for all of these. elevated purses in the designated events. This is coming straight out of the PGA Tour reserves. Now, I do think that it's been a little overblown. Like, people are making it sound like the PGA Tour is about to go out of business if they don't get an infusion of money from Saudi Arabia, which I don't think that's necessarily the case. But you do start adding up all the dollar signs and end up all the zeros. You're like, yeah, they put a lot of money out there without

really getting much in return. The PIP itself was, as I was speaking with our friend, Bob Harrog this morning. He pointed out it was 40 million last year. This year it's $100 million. That's $140 million that essentially they weren't spending before and now they're spending out of their own cash reserves. And so that's a lot of money. I think that helps at least tell the story of why all this stuff is taking place right now. The other part of this is the pending litigation. They get out of the litigation. There's no discovery phase, which I have a feeling from what I've heard, the PGA Tour had some things they didn't want public. And I don't know, guys, seems like Saudi Arabia's public investment fund.

Maybe there's something back there that they might have a skeleton or two in the closet that they didn't want public either. So they made that agreement. The one thing that stands out to me over the last 24 hours, though, and you mentioned House, that policy board meeting on Tuesday that lasted five hours, let me read something from the statement here. entering the framework agreement, put an end to the costly litigation with an input from our player directors, has now begun a new phase of negotiations to determine if the tour can reach

a definitive agreement. Now, we all knew that the policy board would have to approve this. I can't believe that Jay Monaghan and Jimmy Dunn and Ed Hurley-he essentially did all this stuff without the rest of the policy board knowing about it. They now need approval from the policy board. reading that statement, a two-barograph statement after that meeting yesterday, there are a whole lot more ifs that are included now than there were before, and it seems a lot less definitive than it did just three or four weeks ago. Well, I think the document that we got to see this week because it got sent to Congress speaks to exactly that sobs, doesn't it? There are almost no obligations or firm commitments in that four-ish page document other than Section 6, which puts the lawsuits to bed permanently. So there is still so much to work out, including what percentage of this new company

will the Saudis actually own, which means they have not done the work to agree on the actual value, of each independent entity. There certainly is clarity around governance, and it looks like if this goes through, the PGA Tour controls Live full stop. They have not, in any way, committed to the ongoing existence of Live. There's a whole lot of fluffy language in that document

isn't there that says, well, in good faith, we'll take a look at the benefits, but it sort of clears a path to shutting it down. I just, the thing that, strikes me the most about this agreement. And we know that Monaghan is sidelined with health issues. And it's, I think, becoming increasingly unclear whether he's going to return to this position. Right. But it does feel like the Piff already got what they wanted out of this. Because that CNBC performance for me, where they said, it wasn't for me, it was for all of us, but to me, it just, I'm

never going to understand it as long as I live. Because for the Saudis, what did they want? They wanted the lawsuits to go away, as you just said, and they had an image problem. And in that interview, the commissioner diffused any image problem that may have existed by saying, I trusted this guy in 10 minutes. And so if, and as you say, there are a lot of ifs in this document, if they can't get this through because they don't agree on the concrete terms with the PIF or because the player, PGA Tour Policy Board has some conflicts. Patrick Cantlay is on this board, and there was a lot of chatter this week about his strong feelings, if they can't get this through,

the Saudis get to put the lawsuits to bed, and that hurdle that had kept other players from going, the morality question, seems to have been evaporated in that CNBC performance. Am I missing something? No, you're not missing anything. The Saudis got exactly what they wanted, and I feel like we will forever ponder

the two biggest questions and they're interrelated in terms of a world class perhaps never to be seen again bungling of a messaging. Like the combination of rushing onto CNBC we still don't know why

they felt like there was a rush. I feel like we may never know why there was a rush. The document required a press release within a week of the agreement. Why? well how about this a press release is easy it says we're settling the lawsuit we're here to announce we're settling the lawsuit that's all and then that's all we say right and if they you could add another line we intend to work amicably going forward to find areas of mutual interest to see if there

are opportunities that behoove both of us this is the easiest thing in the world any any dummy like me could come up with that off the top of their head. But why the stroke job of his excellency on American television will never, ever, ever make sense to me, sobs? The fact that this was, I want to say bungled. It was just such a rush job. It was such a rush job that they sent out a press release that said there's a merger.

And then the next day, Monaghan was. asked about the merger, he said, whoa, I don't know why everyone's calling it a merger. Well, because it said merger in the subject line of your press release. I mean, we're not coming up with this at a thin air. Like, you're the one that sent it out, and now you're denying what it is. I mean, this is, it really felt like, and I don't know, there's got to be a good reason. There's a good legal reason. There's a good monetary reason.

There's a good reason why they felt like on, I believe it was May 30th, they needed to push everything through immediately and couldn't wait. waste another minute. And I don't know what that is. I don't know if it was. Oh, you said it. You said it. Monetary. Monetary. The money. The quicker we can get to the money. Right, right, right, Nate Dogg. But why the need to speak publicly in the way that they did? That didn't change the money piece. I think for me, this is a common thread through the PGA tour over the last three years, which is that the public facing communication is not good. It's just not been a strength of the leadership. And it's why they've had to turn to the players

and outsource it to people like Rory McElroy and put the burden on them, which I think the players were happy to do assuming competence of management and leadership. But I think, when you look at this document, the money is the thing, right? There is no money for the people. PGA Tour if this deal falls apart. There's not a breakup fee. Why not? Well, there still could be. I mean, this is the MOU kind of thing. There could be in a proper M&A doc, right? Yep, except that there is no breakup fee here, but the lawsuit, putting the lawsuits to bed is binding. So again, the Saudis could walk from this and get absolutely everything they wanted without the PGA Tour getting a dime. And now you've got the Piff and live, able to compete freely saying, see, we're not bad guys, they said so. By the way,

we have all the money. And the lawsuits are gone. So now you've got a PGA tour that to Sobel's original point here, they got to figure out a way to come up with a hundred plus million dollars a year, not just one time, a year in money from sponsors who are already grumbly, as we know. I don't think the Fortnet championship folks felt great this year about, you know, the lack of understand. Sanderson Farms, does that still continue? Like, there's a lot of question marks around where this money's coming from. And again, the Saudis seem to have a lot of leverage in this deal at this point. I mean, the only people who have more leverage are the 20 guys who didn't get paid, who are still independent contractors playing for the PJ Tour. Those guys, I think, can rest

fairly comfortably, knowing that if this deal gets done, they're going to get paid. Otherwise, they can walk and start this circus all over again. Or you've got Liv sitting there, ready to write checks in the event that it's a competition again. So I want to ask, I just want to add to what Nate was saying there. Nate, you've signed a lot of documents in your life. To show you how early this is in everything, to show you how little has been agreed upon and figured out, as Robert Damron, who's a former tour player, I was doing a show with him yesterday on PGA Tour Radio, as he put, you can't sign for a car.

You can't buy a car and sign less than five pages of documents. This is a five-page document. Like, if my dog takes a shit on your lawn and you decide to sue me for $20, it's going to be a 30-page legal document. They had five pages to essentially infuse billions of dollars for the public investment fund into the PGA tour and create a new entity. I mean, this thing's going to wind up being 5,000 pages by the time it's over. And we only have five pages to start. There's a whole lot more left. Yeah.

And that's why when you look at what's binding, the only thing that's binding in that agreement is the lawsuits. being put to bed, which is the clear, clear bellwether sign that that's what drove this in the moment. There was some pressure on both sides to put this down. Which is fine. And you know what? If those guys had come out,

if His Excellency and Jay had come out with the press release as they'd agreed, saying that we resolved the lawsuit, they wouldn't have to be, you know, doing this dog and pony show for the players and dealing with the players' ire, I want

We are all gambling fellows. So I'm going to put a prop on the table. But first, I just want to observe out loud how weird the golf universe works. You know, the $100 million that the tour is missing on kind of an annual basis going forward was there. They had that deal on the global streaming rights with discovery all the way up until, you know, it was golf TV. right sobs it was supposed to be like a 1.2 billion dollar deal over over 12 years 10 to 12 years and they got the first couple infusions of that and then warner brothers just got uh eaten up by discovery and then they canceled that whole thing so bye bye bye 100 plus million dollars a year

and bye by global streaming rights and they haven't come up with a successful replacement for that but which is why I think one of the many contributing factors to the moment we're in right now. But here's my proposition for each of you. In a percentage way, express the likelihood, and I'll put this to Nate first, that Jay Monaghan returns as commissioner of this tour. Wow. I would have told you last week, 75%. Having been on the ground in Hartford, I'm going to tell you,

it's 50-50 at best. Wow. Okay. So, oops. Yeah, I tend to agree with Nate. I think it might even be less than that. The longer he's away, the more I think he's not coming back. The fact that he wasn't at the policy board meeting yesterday, that he didn't call into the policy board meeting. I get it.

Like, he's taken some time away. Good. Like, worry about your personal health before anything else. And I can't even imagine how harrowing the last 18 months has been for him, how frenetic the pace of everything has been. All of that said, if he's not even calling into that meeting, to me, that's a really bad sign moving forward. The other part of this is, why would he want to be PGA Tour Commissioner?

He is the CEO of Nucco. Why would he want to go back and be PGA Tour Commissioner and represent a membership that hates him right now and doesn't want him doing the job? Yeah, so I think on that last note that the damage is irreparable in terms of his standing among the membership. And I would put it at less than 20% that he returns. I don't think the question, but your question was, does he come back at all? Is he, that's a different question from, is he in charge a year from now?

Yeah. I guess there's still a part of me that would be surprised if he doesn't come back in some capacity, but I think at this point, it's 50, 50 best that he comes back in some capacity. Is he running this thing in a year? No, which is hilarious because he's named throughout this document is the CEO. But he's still running it. I mean, as the CEO of the new entity, that's more power to me. That's more powerful than being the commissioner. Like that's essentially, you've got the commissioner of the PGA tour under your umbrella. And so why would you want, you're essentially, if you're going

from CEO to commissioner, you're taking a demotion. So he's getting kicked upstairs to not be commissioner eventually and be CEO. I would also, by the way, from everything I've heard, guys, for the listeners out there who want to know who maybe is on tap to be the next commissioner, Google PGA Tour Policy Board and take a look at the members on there, and you might find who could be a candidate for the next commissioner. Yeah. But for the purposes of the single thing in front of the tour, which is to get a deal done between now and end of the year,

Monaghan's really irrelevant, right? This is up to deal people. This is up to the M&A folks. And this is up to the government affairs folks. Hopefully the tour has been out there looking for an appropriate lobbying firm because thus far they've done a shitty job of find the right lobbying firm or group of lobbyists. But that's the team that needs to be brought to the four between now and the end of the year to get the deal done and to chart the course for 2024. Am I right about that?

So are my wrong? Yeah, no, I think you're right about that. Here's a question for you guys that I really just kind of thought of as you were saying that. How much do you think, Yasser Al-Ramayan, his excellency, H.E., thought at the beginning of this whole thing, we need Monaghan on our side. And then when all this news broke three or four weeks ago, he saw the reports that the players are like incensed at Jay Bonahan right now. All of a sudden, he's like, wait, I don't need Jay Monaghan. He thought coming into this whole thing, I need him.

Monahan to move forward with all this. Now he's like, no, I got the tour. I don't even want him. I don't want to be associated with him. I mean, there's a very good chance that he has gotten what he needed out of Jay Monaghan, and now he's moving on. Yeah. I agree with that. Yeah. Again, this agreement was very craftily negotiated by the Saudis, and that they got everything they wanted up front without having to commit to anything. Anything. They gave nothing. Other than the promise of, you know, cash at some point, which as far as the tour concern, apparently is enough, right? No, the deal, they didn't, they didn't even make that promise. They said, we'll figure it out.

They got the two things they wanted. There is no discovery of the emails of Saudi government officials and high-ranking people in PIF. And they got blessed on national television by the guy who'd rallied the 9-11 families against them. That's all they wanted out of this ever. in either situation they're going to end up he's going to end up as chairman of the most powerful unified

entity in golf I have no doubt that if this deal doesn't close the value proposition for the tour is going to dissipate quickly and the players are going to chase the money because they know it's there well let me ask this and then we'll get on to some actual

genuine golf news it was announced last week that the Washington Wizards are taking on a 5% investment by the Qatari sovereign wealth fund, what is there to prevent another sovereign wealth fund from an oil-rich nation in that part of the world? If the PGA tour and the PIF are not able to come to terms, what is there keeping the Qataris out? The Qataris could step in with that infusion of cash. Nate, I think in you are, and obviously I'm doing this a tiny bit tongue and cheek, but Nate, you made a very

nice observation in your emergency nine Twitter thread, um, in response to the leak of the document earlier this week, that it's not easy for the tour to find replacement capital. You can't go to traditional private equity firms here in the United States and ask them to cough up this kind of money because they want to know what's the return and when is it returning. You know, how much am I getting? and how much when am I going to get it? Yes, and because most of them have the PIF as a limited partner investing in their fund, and they don't want to fund something that competes with their limited partner investor. But is there other replacement capital potentially out there from similarly minded,

similarly situated nations out there who want to deploy some money? One of the things that will be an interesting sort of business case, smart business people will be how valuable sports assets have become. It's an asset class that is sort of unique in this era of economic and financial uncertainty. Folks who have money to put to work have had reasonable success, I think investing in worldwide sports properties that seem to be producing reasonable returns, right, Nate? Yeah, I think your point is well taken. The problem is, I don't know who's the individual who's out having those conversations right now. Is it Jimmy Dunn? Is it Patrick Cantley? Like, who is representing the tour and ensuring

that if this agreement does not come to fruition, that the tour has access to the capital to compete fair and square? I don't know who's in charge. I will say, guys, I agree with that. I know this is going to sound, you know, this is going to knock your socks off. But I don't know that much about global economics. I've said on the radio every day to the last year and a half. I'm like, here's what I, I'm qualified to watch another guy hit a golf ball around a golf course and then afterwards go,

so you hit it good, right? And then I talk about it. I mean, like, I have a very limited skill set in anything worldly, especially everything that's going on with this stuff right now. That said, what I will tell you is, first of all, your point of house that, you know, the Katari government or any other, you know, rich government comes in and says, hey, we want a piece of this, is certainly a possibility.

I hadn't even thought about that possibility besides the Saudi Arabian government coming in. But yes, that's certainly something that could happen. The other part of this that I will say is that for everyone in sense that Saudi Arabians government is starting getting their hands on the American professional sports world, I can tell you that this is the tip of the iceberg, this is in the end of the road, that there's already stories about them getting into tennis, just wait until the Kansas City Chiefs are up for sale in three years. And the L.A. Lakers are up for sale. And the New York Knicks are up for sale. At some point, when they're up for sale and they're going for $900 million and Saudi Arabia comes in and says,

ah, we'll offer you twice that. And all those leagues go, well, we don't really want Saudi Arabia. We don't want the PIF money. And then they offer twice. You're like, yeah, welcome, guys. We'll take it. Sounds great. And all of a sudden, like, it's going to have, you're going to have Piff across the jersey of an NFL team as they're playing football games, going over to Riyadh, playing a couple of home games. It's going to happen. I mean, I'm exaggerating about the end part of that, but their money is not stopping at golf and F1 and tennis. Their money is going to be in all American sports. And soccer. I mean, you look at Manchester City who just won all three titles in the Premier League. And it's hard to make an argument that the, you know, if you're a fan base,

that ownership blew up the franchise, the fan base wants to see great performance and they got it. So I don't know. I think as the thing for me that I come back to on this is how telling Rory's press conference was when he got to Canada. And he basically said, I'm resigned to the fact that this is how the world works. and Rory was maybe that was Custer's last stand as far as I'm concerned. Like Rory folding on that means I think that the world

has folded on that. And so now you're going to have to figure out how to play within those constraints. And I just don't know who's holding the chess pieces at the PGA tour right now in the event that the Saudis don't say, you know what,

we got everything we wanted. I think we're going to win and own the thing completely. Why do we need to have a small percentage of something bigger? When if we play this out over the next two years and execute, we can own 100% of all of it.

By the way, Rory just played four straight weeks, had a couple of heartbreakers, four top 10 finishes, can't get over the hump, can't win again, finally gets a week off. What are you doing on Tuesday? I'm going to sit a five-hour policy board meeting. Oh, God.

In Detroit. Yeah. He was there in person. What a blast. Sounds like fun. Some great food in Detroit. Hopefully he found some of that Detroit pizza. Hey, hey, my Eagle enthusiasts.

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If you have a gambling problem, you can call 1-800 gambler or visit the ringer.com slash RG. First, online real money wager, only a $10 deposit is required. The refund is issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See full terms at fandle.com slash sportsbook. Let's talk a little bit about some actual golf. And we will get to the PGA tour in a moment. But I wanted to make sure on today's program,

we allotted some time to talk about the remarkable moment that is present with the LPGA. We just had the opportunity to watch a 20-year-old go out and win her first major at a venerated venerable I'm sure I'm using one of those words wrong I'll let the Twitter sphere tell me finarial

no no no Nate a renovated balcestral that absolutely showed out spectacularly on television a venue that I dare say would have been magnificent for spectators

but for the bad weather which seems like it It had a dampening effect, no pun intended, on folks actually coming out. But holy cow, did Bouti look awesome? And the women played beautifully. The 20-year-old that came out of nowhere was not Rosang in her first professional major, but instead rounding Yin, who shot in the 60s in all four rounds and had that swag all the way up till the 18th hole and shot a final day.

67 and looks like there could be this cool rivalry. She's the second player from China to achieve Shao Sheffin and Miss Yin are the two with majors on the LPGA.

But to the LPGA's credit and the reason that I wanted to make sure we touch base on this, they've taken a week off. No golf this week. And next week, they're off to Pebble. to compete the women's U.S. Open. It feels kind of refreshing to just have a break

and let everybody kind of savor, you know, the fun experience about T and what's coming up at the U.S. Open. PGA Tour doesn't subscribe to this kind of approach soaps. Yeah, okay, first of all, a couple things here. I don't know if I necessarily subscribe to this approach. I don't even know if the LPGA subscribes to the approach. you know as well as I do that if a sponsor had stepped up this week and said, hey, here's a few million bucks.

You want to play here for this event? And we get to be the title sponsor and then say, sure, we'll have an event in between major. So let's not give them too much credit for letting the schedule breathe that much. The second part of this is, like, I'm not so sure that I want a week off after a major championship. Rowning Yin wins, I know that it hasn't necessarily resonated, even though it's a 20-year-old budding superstar wins. If Rose Zhang wins that tournament and it's on SportsCenter

and everyone's talking about her, the last thing I want the next week is, okay, now we're not playing golf. I want to step on the gas pedal. I want her playing wherever we're playing the very next week and gain some momentum going into the next major championship because I think Pebble's going to be great. All of that said,

rivalries are great, new talent's great. The LPGA thrives when they have a singular super superstar who's winning golf tournaments from Onica to Lorena to Yanni to Inbi. I'm probably missing a word to Lydia Co. Lydia Co. of course. Nelly, when you have a single-name superstar who's dominating LPGA events, that world is a better place than, hey, we've got parody and we've got a lot of young players who are all really good. It just doesn't work as well on a worldwide basis for, gaining any sort of mainstream exposure?

I think that you have to feel really good about the status of the women's game at this point. The peripheral golf media is picking it up in ways that they haven't before. There was a lot of pressure for why this thing with Rose-Zang making a run was on Peacock instead of on a more accessible network. Like the Golf Channel, perhaps. Right. The Golf Channel. It's just something, there's just a wave here. I think of appreciation for the sport that hasn't existed before.

And, you know, if you're the LPGA, you probably go, ah, the wrong 20-year-old up-and-coming star won that tournament. But it sure doesn't look like it's going to take very long for Rose to win. And, you know, every good movie needs a battle of superheroes. So if we've got a couple of young stars in the game, I think it's going to feed, you know, feed what is, feels like some tailwind momentum in the

golf media right now. Wait until Piff buys the LPGA infuses it with some actual money out there and I think I don't know. Things get better, things get worse. I don't know where they go, but it's going to be a big story. Well, if there's no

reason that they can't have a major TV deal so that interested viewers might be able to watch it on TV in a manner that is accessible. And if that's the ultimate result. And I know the three of us sitting around a table at a steakhouse have wondered aloud why it is that the PIF with its goal of, you know, making an entry into the American sports market didn't, you know, start with the LPGA. But, you know, that will be a discussion probably better save for more stake in.

more rounds of what we were enjoying at the table. I do want to say thank you to the ombudsman for calling me out on the nonsense of a break in the schedule being a desirable thing. Before we get to sort of forecasting how Detroit's going to play out, I do want, you know, it's way too early days. but if this deal gets done, it feels to me sobs like the schedule, the nascent, the, you know, the sort of kernel of how they intend to compete professional golf in 2024, they have to revisit that. It has to be part of over the next six months. Who's eligible?

Will there be cuts or not? You know, how are they going to fashion competitive golf in a manner that meets what their television partners, most importantly, require of them? but also a presentation that is interesting and attractive to us the consuming sporting public. Do you think that they have to recrack the schedule, don't they? Yeah, I can't believe all that was included in that five-page document. There are a lot of words. Look, there is so much.

I mean, my guess is whether it's Jay Monahan or Jimmy Dunn or Ed Hurley or Rory or Patrick Cantley, Like, if any of them was on the podcast after drinking some truth serum right now and talking to us, they'd go, I don't know what's going on. They just, there isn't, the plan is to have a plan. And that's the only plan there is so far. And so I get it. Like, look, I threw a theory out on Twitter yesterday. I had people yelling at me.

Like, that's a stupid thing. Okay, well, that's why it was just a theory. It wasn't like I'm slamming my fist on the table saying it's going to happen. But there are no answers right now. And, you know, we live in a world where I watch a lot of these, like, true crime shows, you know, whether it's Dateline or Netflix has a bunch of shows. You start the show and you know, okay, a crime has been committed. Someone was murdered.

You get the evidence. You get the potential perpetrators, the suspects, you go through all the clues. And in two hours, you wrap it up in a nice little bow. And you got, I knew he did it. They interviewed everybody else except that one guy. That's because he's in jail and he did it. And everyone wants it wrapped up in two hours and go, okay, give me an answer now. Give me all the answers.

This is real life. And so we're not getting those answers right away. I think everyone's like, all right, what's just like? I had the question yesterday on our show. Well, what about like Chase Capco? Because he didn't have status on the PGA tour, but he's live. And if they combine, I go, that's like number 912 on the docket. Like that's so far down.

So, they didn't even like, Who cares about Chase Kepka? Who cares? Come on. The answer to that is, who cares? I just, you got paid, you got the bag? I don't know.

Right, right. The Canadian tour. I don't know. Do something. But I'm just saying that it's just an example of like, everyone wants all the answers right away. And it's like, we don't even have the first row of answers,

let alone all the way down to the bottom yet. Well, subs, we know that, uh, you have many, many, many media commitments because you are a golf media superstar. So we wanted to make sure we want answers from you, my friend. The Rocket Mortgage Classic is upon us in a smoky Detroit. The wildfires in Canada continue to produce air quality levels that are concerning.

But it seems like as we're recording this Wednesday morning, they intend to go forward with the golf tournament on Thursday. It is a Donald Ross venue that has acquired a reputation of being a driver wedge putter kind of venue for these PGA tour professionals. I know you and some of your colleagues from the Axe Network have gotten into the nitty gritty about, you know, the guys that are playing. It's a very good field. It's for this particular event, the best field I think it will have been. ever, you know, put together. We're seeing big names like JT and Hadecki, and we're seeing defending champion Tony Fienow. We're seeing young phenom, Tom Kim, some great names.

We're seeing all the guys who are not sure about the schedule we just talked about next year. And what it means to be 50th versus 71st in the FedEx Cup might really matter, which is why Justin Thomas currently sitting at 66th is in this thing instead of sitting at home podcasting, like some of his peers. That's a great point. Great point by the Nate dog. So help us think about how to pick some winners here. Yeah.

So the last three winners here, Bryson DeShambo, Cam Davis, and Tony Fienow. There is some very simple connective tissue. And that's, they are all great drivers of the golf ball. When they're on their games,

they mash it off the tee, and they're not nearly as crooked as some other guys that hit it a long way. And so you want to go after guys who are really good drivers of the golf. I remember it was the first or second year, I believe the second year that this one was in existence. Before it started, I talked to a player who said, this is the most Bryson course ever. And so if you think back to Bryson at that point three years ago where it's like, well, the most Bryson

core, that means you can just bomb and gouge it. Just hit it as far as you can. Go find it. Hit a wedge into the green. You probably all need to bring about four or five clubs with you to this golf course if you're that type of player. And you can go out and make a ton of birdies. Tony Fienow said the other day, he thinks it could be 30 under this week.

Some of those names that you mentioned, yeah, it's hard not to like a Ricky Fowler. I think he's going to win at some point, certainly trending in the right direction. I'm a little worried that this feels like a week where he would certainly take off if he wasn't doing rocket mortgage commercials every three minutes during all those commercial breaks. So I just don't know where his fatigue level is at coming into this one. Yeah, and he shot a 62 at the U.S. Open. He shot a 60 that really legitimately could have been a 59. Like that last shot, we were up on the tower watching him do that. He could have done it.

He maybe fatigues a little bit, Sobel, but maybe it's more the commercials than the play that fatigues him, huh? Yeah, I don't know. I like JT. JT hit rock bottom at the U.S. Open a few weeks ago. Came back to finish top 10 last week, and now I like catching dives on the upswing as opposed to the downswing. I'm a little worried that Ricky's kind of on that downslink. swing. Nothing is not going to play well, but, you know, we're kind of, if everything's a roller coaster a little bit, I want JT on that upswing. But I'm going a little bit deeper from my outrights this week. I'm starting

the card with the young superstar. And I'm calling him a superstar already. He's going to get there. I get it. We've said Cam Young is going to win golf tournaments and he hasn't yet. He's come really close. We've said Sahithi-Gal is going to be a superstar. I'm still holding to that. But Ludwig Eberg is going to be a superstar. The kids got everything. And not only that, he's got exactly what we're looking for on this golf course. He mashes the ball. He makes a lot of birdies. He's unafraid of anything during this time of the year when a lot of guys, as Nate just said,

are worried about their status, worried about getting into the playoffs, are playing with a little weight on their shoulder. Ludwig's just out there like, I don't know, man, I'm just going to play golf because I'm all set for the next year and a half. And so I don't have to worry too much about it. Reminds me a little of 2019 when Morikawa and Matthew Wolf, for among those who turned pro that summer, each of them won within the first couple of months of being a professional.

And I think part of the reason is everyone else is tired, everyone else is worried about their jobs, everyone else is. And these guys just play with house money. And these guys are just going out for a free role trying to win. So I love Aberg this week. I've also got Austin Eckrode on the card who's got five straight top 30s. So tell Nate who Austin Eckrod is.

Yeah, I'm interrupt you. Nate. Nate, Nate, threw some shade at Austin Eckrode on a real podcast. Tell, Nate,

who Austin Eckrode is. Not because of it's a way. Budding very, very solid. I won't call him a star yet, very solid BJ tour player. Why do we not like Eckroat? House is making shit up now.

I'm not. You hadn't heard of him. You were like, what is this name? I know you'd heard of them, but you were going down the board. Like, what did look at this thing.

And it was a thing. He had a fine. US Open performance. He did have a very good one, and I don't hate the pick. I think, do you think soaps just sort of quickly stepping for me? Do you think that Aberg is the most impressive of all the rookies, or do you think that Sam Bennett, his performance in the two majors tips him a little bit? I am not as impressed with Sam Bennett as others are.

I get it. Sam Bennett played great at the Masters and played really well at the U.S. Open for a few days. I take nothing away from him. If we're going long term, he's like probably not even in my top five, honestly. Okay. Great. I mean, it's Aberg, and then there's a drop-off, and then I know he's not a rookie yet.

He's still in school. Gordon Sargent, who absolutely mashes it, is right up there for me. And then, I mean, we can talk about, you know, depending on still kids in college, kids on the corn ferry, you know, the two kids who have won on the corn ferry, two of the last three weeks

are going to be really good players. I don't know that I've got Bennett up that high. That swing, that Joaquin-Neman-like swing at impact where he's got to stay real flexible throughout his career. I just don't know if he's going to be the guy that on a weekly basis is up there. That said,

insight from Sobs. I love it. Here's some other insight, guys. I told you before we started rolling here that during the U.S. Open, it's a fun job. I'm working for the U.S. Open Radio coverage, and I'm interviewing guys after the round. They don't even have to do anything.

They bring them right to me, and I stand there and ask a couple of questions and they walk away. What I do get is a sense of during the tournament, like who's confident, who believes in themselves. And the other part about this is I get a sense of like guys that I don't know, I get to know them a little bit. Austin Eckro is one of those guys I talked to a couple times. I'm like, he's kind of got it a little bit. You know, I'm not saying like, you know, to an extent that he's going to be a John Rom or something like that. But you look at him and you talk to him and shake his hand, you're like, this guy's going to be really good.

You can just tell. He's got the dog in him. He got that dog in him. I was surprising your lead in to Mr. Aberg. I thought Gordon Sargent was going to be the punchline because he is playing this week. And he does hit the golf ball 10 miles down the fairway. And he has all the strength in the world to deal with whatever. They're saying it's four inch rough,

but I don't think it's really going to be, you know, impossible for the guy. guys to get it out of. And I just, the only reason I'm going back to Sargent is because he shot a 69 in the final round of the U.S. Open that was a 68, but for the faulty cup on the 18th hole that I wondered if the golf gods were going to replay for Wyndham Clark and give us a Wyndham Clark Rory matchup for anybody that didn't see it. The golf ball went into the hole and hit something and bounced back out of the hole. He shot a 68.

the ball was down in the hole. So give us the insider scoop. Did they go out there and fix that after Sargent? They did. I think they had to have. They had to them. Yeah, I missed it what it happened. I was interviewing somebody else,

but I think they went out there and fixed that. He walked off, by the way. I talked to his, I guess you could have an agent or a manager. He's still in college, but I talked to him. And he said, as soon as Gordon walked off the file of green,

he goes to him, he goes, did I just lose a low amateur? of that? He's like, no, no, no, you're up like 10 don't worry about it. Yeah, but that would have been something. Anyway, my pick for this week is Hideki Matsiyama. He's been on a heater

with his ball striking. He fares well enough in the birdie or better category. If this is going to be a birdie fest, I want birdie or better guys that score well, you're going to be shocked to hear that if you look at, you know, recent over the last, you know, handful of years,

Tony Fienow and JT and Sung J.M and Tom Kim are all good at birdie or better. You know, golf courses that give up lots of birdies, but Hedekhi is in the top 12 of that. So he's my ride or die this week. Nate Dog, who you got your eyes on? You know, I would love to tell you that I don't have a super chalky pick this week, but I think Tony Fienow is due. He's hovering near the back of that Comcast business top 10. so he's got reason to be in this tournament

and put a few more points on the board for that money. I think Max would be the other pick that I would have made. He's got a lot of MGM sponsor responsibilities this week. I think that's probably why he's in the tournament, to be honest. So, Tony is mine. Okay. Well, that makes it easy. Sobs, I know that you are off to your next media engagement.

We appreciate having the ombudsman on at this moment. You're welcome any time. You don't have to yell at us to come back on what I'm funny to talk about over the next six months. Thanks for coming on, buddy. I'm not going to invite myself, but I appreciate you guys having me.

We'll do a steak dinner against you. Invite themselves. We demand an invite on a serious PGA tour at some point. Yes. Vacation next week after that. You guys are in. Can I get you both at the same time?

Yeah, probably not. Okay. You can have Nate. Thanks, boys. See you. Let's see you. all right there we go my eagle enthusiast my par saving pals our thanks to our homeboy jason sobel check out his stuff on the action network you can hear him daily on serious xm the pga

tour channel of course thanks to the nate dog our incomparable accomplice we are back next week my par saving pals uh the john deer will be in front of us who knows what business news maybe fall us. We will be also looking towards the Women's U.S. Open at Pebble Beach. We have primetime Pebble Beach in July to look forward to next week. This week, Detroit,

let's all go try and cash some tickets. Jason shared a few names for us. We might have parlay or two ready for all you birdie buddies out there. Please, it's summertime. Throw a peg in the ground, and if you're able to do so, let's hit them straight

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