Fairway Rollin' - Thoughts on the First LIV Golf Event and U.S. Open Story Lines

Episode Date: June 13, 2022

House and Hubbard are joined by Brendan Porath from the ‘Shotgun Start’ podcast to discuss the first LIV Golf tournament in London and contrast it with Rory McIlroy’s victory at the RBC Canadian Open (3:00). Then they discuss the story lines they’ll be looking out for at the U.S. Open (39:15). Hosts: Joe House and Nathan Hubbard Guest: Brendan Porath Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Chris Vernon, and me and my buddy Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O Everything, host an NBA podcast called The Mismatch. They call it The Mismatch because I'm awesome and Kevin is a gigantic nerd. No, no, that's not why at all, Chris. They call it the Mishmatch because I have a brain and you're a loudmouth bozo. Good grief. Anyway, listen to our amazing NBA podcast, The Mismatch. Or don't.

We really don't care. We're probably going to win a million awards either way. Chris, we do care. So don't say that. Please subscribe and listen to the mismatch only on Spotify. Did you really call me a bozo? Hello, friend. Unlike any other.

Oh, yeah. This is a major edition of Fairway Road. Podcasts on the record podcast Network. I am your starter. Joe House. My birdie buddies, my eagle enthusiast, my par-saving pals. What a time to be alive. We have right in front of us, staring us in the face,

the United States Open Championship. So much has happened in the wonderful world of golf in just a short week's time. The only way for us to get down is with an absolute heavyweight in the golf writing and podcast space. Of course, our PJ tour correspondent on the ground, Nathan Hubbard, is here. my, my birdie buddies along for the ride. First time, long time, our beloved pal from the Shotgun Start podcast, Brandon Pohrath is here as well. It's a three ball. You're going to go throw a peg in the ground and get this thing going. All right. All right, BP. Thank you for having me. Heavyweight feels like a really misnomer. You're overhyping me like some of these live draft

picks, like third, fourth rounders where some of them. A lot of smoking mirrors with some of that. It's an honor. Who's your comp? You're not a Schwartzel. No, absolutely not. I think I'm more like a Peter Yule line, just been kind of operating at the fringes. Might have a good week here or there.

But yeah, heavy weight seems like kind of you're overhyping me, but it's an honor to join you guys. You weren't born on third base. Come on now. That's true. I was not. I can confirm that. Speaking of born on third base, I do want to jump right into this.

We have all kinds of storylines. traditionally the way that, you know, these major championship weeks start for us, it's like, what are the storylines, who, you know, who's in, on trend, what's happening this week. And we had Kyle Porter on last week and we were like, God damn, the fire hose of stuff in the face. I can't handle it any longer. I won't make a dirty reference. I kind of want to, but I want. And it just hasn't stopped.

It just hasn't stopped. So this is what I want to begin with, BP. My question is this. Did the golf gods this week, was it a little too on the nose with the way that yesterday played out? It was a very sharp play, the way the golf gods played out yesterday. It did feel like a little bit like a simulation, right? If this is how, just too much happening all at once, use the fire hose analogy. To have the whole scene play out like it did with Rory McElroy,

obviously the face of sort of the PGA Tour traditionalists and counterargument to this upstart and disruptor and vocally, you know, the voice of the PGA Tour, for Jay Monaghan's sake, probably a good thing that he was there and was able to display championship golf at a national open that's been, you know, away for a few years and just sort of came together perfectly for them whether that like means that live golf is folding up shop and not going to go on anymore because the PJ tour displayed a really strong product on Sunday. It's probably a separate matter. But it did feel like we were in a simulation with the ropes breaking,

which may or may not have been, I don't know, it's a little convenient. Those genteel Canadians are all of a sudden. The conspiracy theories. No, the Canadians are ready to bust out. They've had all those limitations up there. And you've got people on top of each other's shoulders, hooting and hollering, a far cry from the scene at the Centurion Club in London.

But it was a lot between the Monaghan interview, the live debut, and then just the way the Canadian Open came together, and now we have a major. It's been almost too much the summer, the start of the summer. How do you think Greg Norman defined success for last week, and was it successful? I think he would honestly say it was successful. As someone who's skeptical, critical, look,

I thought Saturday's final round was sucked, to put it bluntly. It was not interesting as a golf product at all, but there were a lot of headlines about all the stuff Charles Schwartzell made. money he made and these sort of also rants who made tripled their career earnings like an Andy Ogletree or Henny DuPice. I think it was successful in my eyes because it happened. It got off the ground. They had a fair amount of headliners.

I think Greg Norman would say the same thing. I think he would say it was arousing success because they were able to get some partial modicum of PGA tour players out there. There was a broadcast or a teleist. a stream cast, whatever the technical term is. It looked okay as a product. Of course, has the benefit of not having to have any commercial interruptions, and that's not a sustainable thing if you want to make money.

I think it was successful in the fact that it happened. And it didn't totally flop, whereas so many of the months leading up to it was nothing but just really them embarrassing themselves operationally and falling into the safety net of sort of a bottomless pit of money that kind of covers. up a lot of incompetence and bumbling and stumbling on the way out. So I think it was a successful in that it got off the ground. So BP, I want to answer Nate's question as well, because I have kind of a follow-on question for you off of that. I would say it was an unmitigated, an enormous success in the following way. I can't tell you how many people, sports fans in my life. I heard from

all week long with messages like, holy cow, what is this? What's going on? DJ is, you took, you know, resigned from the PGA tour. What does that mean? How is this business going to be successful? What is this thing all about? It dominated some headlines for a portion of last week. And it really represents now based on, you know, what I think we've seen,

the kind of existential threat that the Saudis kind of intended all along here, you know, the perception has become reality. Like all of us sort of inside of our own golf bubble have been preparing for this. We've been having conversations, and I know you guys have as well, for months running up to this moment. And so nothing that happened over the last 10 days or so felt like a surprise other than DJ being one of the defectors. But the reaction of the general sporting public,

the consciousness of the U.S. sports, and it was like, tickers are running on ESPN with these names and these developments. So I would say from the perspective of those guys, that's a, and by those guys, I mean Norman and the cabal, like an enormous success.

What kind of reaction did you, of experience inside of, you know, your guy's world? I think there was sort of curiosity and amusement at the start. I would say, like you've mentioned, it's a success in that it's penetrated like so many different areas that golf usually doesn't visit, whether it's like going on like cable news or because of the geopolitical and other larger impacts of this. And obviously mainstream sports that golf doesn't always find its way into unless it's a major or the masters or things like that.

So it's certainly successful. Now, if that wanes, like that may wane, right? Those streaming numbers we saw at the first hour or a couple hours, I can't imagine. That may be the high point for a while unless they really get juiced this thing. Because the product isn't compelling, but it has, the amusement and curiosity blends with like a seriousness of like, this is a real thing.

And another part of why I think Norman could say it was a success is, there was no real curveball in the tour's response. There was no real, I would say, sharp end and their deterrent or whatever they thought, there was nothing unexpected, right? And they suspended these guys using kind of ambiguous terms on length and what actually the term is. I don't even know if they used the term suspension. But there's no ban that Liv had a quick response that you have the players doing this. I don't know if it's an end around, but resigning.

So I think like in that way it's also been a success for Norman. And Jay Monaghan didn't really come with, I think, a strong sort of deterrent or a kind of weapon that was hiding in the closet. Well, he did come with a very angry interview conducted by Jim Nance, who, God, let's give him the news desk. He was great. Yeah. He spared nothing. He pulled no punches. I just found there was a moment there.

I mean, the RBC CEO did it right. He was jovial and smiling and talking about how great it was to have everyone there and the best players in the world coming down the stretch and passionate, loud, but respectful fans, and isn't this great? And Monaghan came across is really, really angry. And I know it's been hard. I mean, that entire office has been under siege. And to be clear, there's a lot of players who've left who have been jousting with the PGA tour, either overtly on Twitter in Patrick Reed's case, or behind the scenes in Bryce and in others cases. And he lost some pains in the ass as far as they're concerned, some guys who

were problematic and really difficult to deal with. My own experience was he came off as very, very angry in a moment in which I would have loved to and seen him say, why would you want to leave this? How great it is. What was your reaction to that interview? I mean, obviously, I'd lean on your insight here certainly as like a leader and a CEO type, but I don't know what part of his job. Obviously, like, he doesn't have to excel necessarily all the time in front of the camera or an interview. But that's just never been a strong suit of his. If those of us in the golf world, like, I'm not saying he's horrible at it.

No, he was great when opening COVID, you know, when they reopened. I thought the way he answered those questions were pretty good. But, yeah, man. Yeah, I just think like he doesn't necessarily project a ton of a strength, usually in interviews and whether those, there's kind of CNBC interviews or the players press conferences, the few times we see him each year. Now, is that like the sub. majority of his job, not necessarily, but in a moment like this, he's left with not a lot of

real, I don't know, substantive deterrence. And what are you saying? There's like the emotional part where you talked about. There's pleas for like loyalty and honor. And you've never had to apologize for being a PGA tour member. Obviously, Jim Nance kind of put it to him. And I don't think like it was a real win for Jay Monaghan in that situation. And I don't think that's ever been a strength of his. And I'm not saying it has to be. to be an effective sort of CEO or leader, but even like, you know, Roger Goodell, who, you know, mumbles and kind of, you know, stumbles,

I should say, and often contradicts himself, at least comes off sometimes more, projects a little bit more strength than leadership, even he does at the mic than Jay Monaghan. I didn't think it was impressive. Monaghan was very fortunate to have Rory McElroy win that golf tournament and take the stand. Well, Nate, that's exactly what I wanted to ask,

sort of both of you, the thing that rang somewhat, you know, substandard to me is they chose the broadcast of the tournament with a guy threatening to shoot 58 or 59 as the moment for this, you know, very defiant and, you know, passionate defense of the tour kind of thing. Like, the tour didn't need any defense during that broadcast. No. The tour was speaking for itself. That would have been a perfectly fine message to have delivered in a press conference kind of context, you know, over the course of the tournament.

And then their snippets could have been grabbed out. And Nance, you know, could have participated. It could have run the press conference, for Christ's sakes. But there was, you know, a way to do this that would have been, I think, a lot more effective than putting kind of Monahan on the spot in a position where we all know he's just not that comfortable. he's not a great live speaker kind of guy in general and you know it just it came off uh you know i i think in a manner that did not you know behoove the the tour i mean you know he really to your point bp didn't have a whole lot of options right so they they've made a strategic decision about in the first place what the punishment's going to be and the second place how they're going

to present and this like defiance and so forth that's all fine but like not not during the broadcast when Rory Rackleroy shooting 62, and, and, you know, you have your very best players at the top of the leaderboard, right? Yeah, I mean, presumably they waited until Sunday when they thought they'd have the largest audience,

right, Sunday afternoon. But then, like, it just sort of, it pulled the actual underlying product, put, you know,

brought it to a sort of jolting stop. It was poop in the punch bowl. It's like, come on, man. Yeah, we're having a party here. Don't you see it? It's the tour party.

You should be singing the praises of these guys. and save the anger for the post conference and maybe even make Rory be party to it. He is the warrior prince, BP. That's right. I mean, Rory's the one that's out there on the front lines, actually getting it done. But maybe this is just the reality of like the Byzantine sort of bylaws and membership rules. And they're flat-footed. They look flat-footed in their letter.

And maybe they're high, you know, they're not, they don't want to put a public spin on or reveal all their cards. but they just appear flat-footed in their letter response, in that interview, and they've had a lot of time to sort of figure out, and maybe they're stunned, maybe their surprises is actually happening. But I think what they've presented now is it will deter some who, you know, the messages of honor and loyalty and playing for legacy and not being suspended or banned will appeal to some, but that's not going to deter a lot of many others who see the dollar signs. And so they're at the mercy of, A, those players who had done. does appeal to and the majors. And it doesn't, I don't know, the majors are still a ball in the air.

Yeah. Here's their response in a microcosm. Today, you know, they spoke about how the players who were suspended were going to be removed from the FedEx Cup standings. And today, if you open the PGA tour app, which, sorry, it sucks.

And we've documented time and time again, all of the problems with it. It's gotten a little bit better. There's some really cool things in there. but if you go in the app today and you click on FedEx Cup, it pulls up the PGA Tour website framed in the app with the FedEx Cup standings because it's clear they could not figure out how to pull those players out within the code in the app.

And you sit back and go, God, they must have been talking about what their response was going to be running the traps. Right. So it's just the PGA Tour in a nutshell and their response in a nutshell. and their response in a nutshell. But I will say this. The one thing that could also be a deterrent is the message that actually pierced through louder to me

than whatever happened on Saturday coming down the stretch of that event. And that was, because Shaggy's widow saying, this is a betrayal of America. And the Saudi victims family, or excuse me, the 9-11 victims' families saying this is a terrible thing. I'm sorry that you're doing that.

Those two messages broke through, I thought, in spite of what was an otherwise flat Monaghan performance. Do you think that there are players for whom those things really matter at this point? Yes. I mean, there has to be, right? You have hopefully a lot of rational actors and players that may outweigh those kind of appeals and critiques.

over sort of the career pay days. Rory's not playing for money anymore. Right. Right. And I think what they're relying on now is that kind of, those kind of voices, whether it's 9-11 widows and 9-11 families speaking about this is unpatriotic to do this. And the fact that they're relying on sort of these appeals, you know what else is a big sort of blow for this sort of winning the hearts and minds?

Is Tiger being out of the field this week? I mean, Tiger at the U.S. Open, Tiger at Southern Hills, by Tiger's standards, gave a pretty impassioned defense of the PGA tour playing for history and impassioned critique of Phil. I think he is really, really disgusted by what Phil's done. And it doesn't care that Phil was in exile or hung out to dry and thought that was probably appropriate when he wasn't around at the PGA. So I think that they're sort of relying on some of those supporters and a Rory type getting it done on the court. And at the mic, they're really relying on that to sort of punch back after this live launch. But it's personal now, isn't it? I mean, that statement that Rory made about getting to 21 wins over you know who who had 20, Greg Norman makes it feel like if, if Liv has done something wrong,

they've actually forced guys to pick sides and they're digging in. It's becoming sort of a bond and an us versus them moment, isn't it? I mean, it's hard to imagine Rory at this point being like, oh, I'll go play for them. Like, it's personal. Right. It really does feel like that, which will make the locker room, I think the U.S. Open so fascinating because it's one of the few comminglings that we'll have. I guess we have that in the Open championship this year, potentially, unless the appeals process and these guys get their way back on tour. But that'll make the locker room dynamic incredibly interesting at the U.S. Open. We know there have been rumored live players for months now, if not a year. But now they're like out in the open and sharing a locker room at the U.S. Open. I just, I think the messaging that they have to hit on too with the players, and again, this is just a pure money situation, is these were exhibitions. Like, that is the appropriate term in my case, in my opinion.

Like, there's just money. There's a clown car in a gold mine. Yeah, right. Exhibition, I thought was appropriate term. I think Jay Monaghan, PJ Tour is terming at that. And I think that's exactly what it is. There's no real competitive juice to this. There's no real competitive cauldron at all.

Everybody's collecting. It's worse than the match. A big check. It is. It is. And it felt like maybe this was just the first one. There was no like team dynamic. But the teams, it was kind of like, whatever it is, 48 guys just playing together to get this thing off the ground.

It wasn't like Stingers versus Smash. There was no animosity. It's just an exhibition handing out cash. Do you think any of the guys that have signed up so far that are in the pipeline care? Um, you know, I wonder about that with DJ, no. Right. DJ honestly, I talk to people who kind of grew up with DJ. Like, he just wants to fish and like the PR and the public backlash.

He doesn't even know if it's happening. If he does know, he doesn't care. I wonder about Phil, quite honestly. I wonder if Phil ever intended it to get this far. And I wonder if this was always a leverage play. And of course, he got way too far down the, down the pike with it. and I just he's kind of debased himself, right, in a way. And I don't know that he ever thought he'd be at this point where he is more or less outcast,

banned or suspended or whatever the term is, an outcast from the tour that he's helped really push along for almost 30 years. I wonder about Phil. Like really, if it's not out and out regret, it's just sort of curiosity of how to, I can't believe it got this far. Yeah, the crazy thing that I think will come to light and, you know, over the passage of time will be the recasting of this. And maybe there's a glass half full kind of guy. But the recasting of this from the player's perspective as an alternative to the PGA tour and instead shining the bright light on it, which is what you're describing.

This is just an exhibition for the purposes of having white Western faces. become the PR arm of the Saudis in trying to assimilate the Saudis into, you know, Western markets. And the Saudis have been very transparent that that's the goal all along, that that is the point of this, that they devoted the resources to build out the PR. It's unprecedented, but they've, in terms of the amount of money, the sheer numbers. But, you know, their vision statement that KV, you know, published, and we all saw it a year ago. It's not a secret. The Saudis have said we have a goal of making ourselves more Western friendly.

And one of the ways we're going to do this is with this golf exhibition series. So the real interesting thing to me is it will persist for the Saudis as long as on balance, it delivers to them what they're after, which is, you know, a general sort of, oh, this is interesting, from like Western sports fans instead of what we're talking about right now, which is every time they have an event, we're talking about the impacts on the families of the 9-11 survivors and the victims. and Jamal Khashoggi's way. Yeah.

And I think like you saw, I mean, the stream was a lot of smoke and mirrors, right? It was sort of, I joked. It was like a Potemkin village, right? The announcers were really laying it on thick with the propaganda. You didn't see the lack of people in the crowd. It was nice in that it showed a lot of golf shots, I suppose, but a lot of golf shots that felt low stakes from relatively unknown players. But again, that's not the goal right now is to like put on a dynamic golf product

or even making any kind of money. I was waiting for someone to get thrown through the Spanish language announcers table. There was so much hype. I mean, what's the next step, though? Do they even care about, you hear from folks on the Asian tour that they think, like, maybe brands come in and buy teams, right? Like a Red Bull and F1, and maybe that's how the Saudis start to make this an actual business model as opposed to just pure sports washing.

I just wonder, like, what the next step is if they're just going to be playing an obscurity on YouTube. Yeah, well, let's do it, right? Let's talk about sort of what's out there in terms of developments. I think there are three or four things. One of them is what you just described, BP, which is the possibility of corporate interests aligning themselves with this thing. The role of the Trump's in this is about to be prominent, right? Because we're going to be at two Trump venues in the fall. And part of the, I'm not going to use the word brilliance, but the strategic thinking, around having only three events that Live is going to run up to and through the Tour Championship and then after the Tour Championship having five events go forward. Pretty creative, pretty thoughtful. They're going to grab headlines, and that's the time when Trump and that universe gets sort of arrived upon the scene here. And also, if there are any players in this venture who wanted to sit,

back and see how this plays out over the next couple months and then let the tour championship happen and collect those checks and then maybe, you know, jump over. That will be an interesting dynamic. And then ultimately what happens with the OWGR points and the majors. And that's really the existential question. Those are the things I feel like that are out there. Do you agree with that? Yeah, they've been certainly somewhat surgical in their scheduling, right, going to markets that maybe the tourism in and Northwest, Pacific Northwest of Portland, an opposite. at what I'd term weaker PGA tour events like the John Deere and the Rocket Mortgage. So like their American stops may penetrate somewhat, but I think you could see a lot more

PR blowback and hostility, right? To this is out there now, as you talked about. Anecdotally, all your friends are asking you about it. It's on CNN. It's all like this is out there now. They may not get the warmest welcome in Portland, right? Now that the entire effort is really well known on an international basis. But it does feel like they don't care, maybe.

Maybe they just don't care about the PR anymore. But as a model, they are pretty reliant on the OWGR. And I think that's where the Asian tour comes in. You hear different rumors at the OWGR. Like, look, the PGA tour has an outsized influence on the world rankings board. Not exclusive, but an influence there. They may marginalize the Asian tour events even further than they are, right? and make those points even more scant for Asian tour events,

leaving these guys with not the DJ who has an exemption into majors, but Taylor Gooch or some of those players, a Schwartzel even, with little recourse to getting into majors, getting points to get into majors. So you hear certain that could be a movement, but they're sort of left trying to find a way to be legitimized by the OWGR, and not this year, but the next year.

Who else has influenced besides the tour? on the world ranking points. I mean, it's the governing bodies. Yeah, it's the governing bodies. It's the, I mean, the Asian tour technically should. All the federation of tours, and that's a bunch of tours you've never heard of, like the Alps Tour and the former European Tour,

now the DP World Tour, the Sunshine Tour. They have a voice, but it's sort of this backroom group in London, in Europe, that can really pull some levers here and maybe even they may be under the pressure from the Masters or Fred Ridley Augustine Aschial. There's all sorts of

power brokers here who find this who may find this distasteful and the tour, the PJA tour is sort of left with that that sort of as their next strategic play because I don't think in their bylaws and in the way

this is going to go as a legal battle that they're like on a completely solid ground. But for the majors, wouldn't they love to see the regular season more diluted so that the only time when the best players in the world come together is at their events? Isn't it sort of in their interest for the majors to have even more intrigue? In a Machiavellian, like, business sense, as someone who's not absolutely beholden to the PGA tour, yes. Yeah. I think what this is going to do is

really dilute, like you said, and diminish product, all, pro golf everywhere, except for those four weeks. I'm not like a tennis nut, but is there a lot of tennis consumed outside of the four majors, like penetrating like the larger sports consciousness? I don't know that it would go that far or a lot of people compare this to the indie cart split in the mid-90s where like that sport more or less vanished once it was diminished by spreading itself thin. I do think if you're a major championship,

all this does is heighten your value, for sure, right? I mean, you can go sell your rights and your sponsorships. This is the one of the four weeks where everybody's under the same 10 and everybody's playing for the most important events. So it does, as a golf fan, it might leave us with a pretty crappy landscape outside of those four weeks. But House, do you think that they've diluted the field yet. I mean, if DJ and Patrick Reed and Kevin

Nah and Taylor Gooch and Bubba and HV3 and Ricky and a few others, Pat Perez, are goofing around at Pumpkin Ridge, but Schaeffler and Burns and Thomas and Speeth and Rory and Rom and Morikow stay. And what we're talking about when we say that are the top 10 players in the world and most of the top 25. Does it matter? Well, Nate, that's challenge is how often are you going to get those top 10 guys to go play the John Deere,

right? We have, you know, the non-major tournaments on the PGA tour. I think there are, I have a hard time coming up with five that are prominent enough, that warrant enough interest that attract the players themselves, where we, we have this mass of talent, coming together. It's the players championship. It's RIV. It's, it's Bay Hill, although Bay Hill has experienced you know, ups and downs.

It's maybe like Colonial. TBC Scottsdale potentially. Match play. Yeah. Maybe the match play. But that match play is still like a WGC thing, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, the WGC events, for sure, will have some kind of experience and

impact as well. They have those problems today. I'm not sure that DJ's care. I mean, DJ doesn't really carry a tournament on his own or he could be substituted for somebody else. He was the face of the marketing for the RBC Canadian up until like Tuesday of last week. And they did fine. They didn't need him.

So that's just where I am. I mean, I think if we lose a couple of those guys at the top of the list who, you know, are going to be on the leaderboard on the back nine on Sunday at the Canadian Open, I think they start to run into trouble. I just still might argue that right now you got a bunch of has-bens and a couple pains in the ass and a few guys who, you know, sort of failure to launch,

who understandably grabbed the money because they have zero chance of becoming a star on the PGA tour. But other than that, the best players are still in the PGA tour. I mean, there's no doubt that the tour is the better product right now. Like we said, the live is an exhibition with a crappy field and the tour is actual competition.

with the top of many of the still the top of the world rankings. I guess the big question is, like people like Rory JT seem pretty well entrenched in the tour life commitment. Are there other big names that they start to see the Henny DuPice come away with two and a half million dollars? Some guys that just aren't, I don't know who that is. I haven't heard anything, but like the Xanders or the Cantlays and people like that,

they pick off a few of these after all these sort of all serans and nobody's are walking away with $2 million, $3 million. We're like already in the zone where half of their published list, this big thing they went through with the player impact program, these are our top 10 most marketable people and we're going to recognize them with money. Like nearly half that list is either rumored or already gone. So like if you're self-identifying, these are our most impactfuls and they're out the door, like, you know, it's a tough one. Do you think I would ask you guys, do you think the tour will ever be in a position? where they like it's in their best interest to come to the table and try to sort out some dual arrangement with live whether that's on a hand or you hear people suggesting it like they just

they'll have to acquiesce and i guess they're nowhere near that position now but but that they would ever come to the table like that i feel like it's much more likely that they figure out um how to make the pgl thing work and that they get dollars by way of that pgl um framework and and and i i i i i I presume that everybody who listens to this podcast is a deep golf nerd, like the three of us. But I'm talking about the premier golf league, which was really the concept that the Saudis stole and have implemented of, you know, team golf, you know, groupings and so forth. And primarily, I think there was, their goal was to be more worldwide, have some Australian venues and have some venues in Europe and so forth that don't get a ton of exposure. I would expect, you know, possibly some kind of alignment with that entity. And if that has the effect of generating more interest and more dollars that they can pay folks,

make it a genuine quandary for players that might be thinking of jumping over to the Saudis. When, you know, if you can deliver something that's nearly as attractive, you know, and, you know, offer this opportunity where, okay, you are a super duper star in our league. you know, Zander, we'll only ask you to play 15 events across, you know, this season. You have you at the four majors and you're guaranteed this level of money. That's what I think is more likely in terms of the direction the tour might go. I don't see any scenario under which the tour will get into bed with the Saudis. It just completely devastates the argument that they put forth.

and it doesn't cure the moral quandary. Do you have a different view, Nate? No, I think you're right. And when you layer on the personal animosity that's in there, you're talking about a decade and probably a change of leadership for something like that to happen. It just doesn't.

It's now mono-imano in a staring contest. Look, we're given this thing a lot of oxygen. And in practice, the product sucked. It does not have a business. model and it was kind of a joke. I mean, it is a joke that Andy Ogletree shot plus 24 and made $100,000, $120,000. It's a joke. That's not a business model. It's not a business. It is a completely different kind of competition. And to that point, until the tour decides that they're going to forego a business model, they can't actually pay that.

money. There's no other league. There's another league that could have a business model that pays some more and they can figure it up. But they're not going to be able to match what these guys are getting. So they have to continue to hammer the moral piece of it and frankly to play up and flare up the personal relationships. And I think at this point, there's just no way that the Saudis can come together with the PGA tour. There's just no way. My Eagle Enthusus, the PGA tour is in full swing. It's a championship week this week. The best place to tee off is on Fandul Sportsbook.

Right now, new customers get $200 in free bets guaranteed. When you place your first $5 bet, you just sign up with promo code rolling, R-O-L-L-I-N. Fandul is an official betting operator of the PGA Tour. So they have all your favorite bets to choose from, and it's a major week. So there are major bets out there. Already, your wins, your placements, your finishing positions, your top nationalities, they're all available on the app. We're looking down the card for some value.

We're looking at the Shane Lowrys of the world. We're looking at the Daniel Burgers of the world. You can get it on the action with tournament winners, top five finishes, match betting. I'm doing a bunch of head-to-heads featuring Phil Mickelson, who I am anticipating will be on the losing end. So much more out there. If you haven't tried Fandul now is the perfect time to give you the shot.

Just join with promo code Roland, R-O-L-L-I-N, and turn a $5 bet into $200 in free bets, win or lose, exclusively on the Fand-Dul Sportsbook app. Quick disclaimer, you got to be 21 or older in select states a $10 first deposit is required. The bonus is issued as non-withdrawable

free bets that expire 14 days after receipt. You can see full terms at fandul.com slash sportsbook. If you have a gambling problem, you can call 1-800 gambler or visit fanduel.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, or Virginia. next step or text next step to 533442 in Arizona. 188-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. 1-8009 with it in Indiana. 18777-7-70 stop in Louisiana. 1-8-78-N-Y or text Hope N.Y to 467-369.

That's in New York. The Tennessee Red Line is 1-8-H0.000. 889-97-89 or if you're in West Virginia, you can visit www.1-800 gambler.net. We have right in front of us, you know, proof of concept. Like, we should be so lucky. We have the United States Open Championship. We're on the eve of this week. It is the Monday of U.S. Open Championship Week.

And, you know, we just sort of devoted two-thirds of the show to the existential crisis that is facing professional golf. But one of the richest storylines, this is what we do here on Fairway Rowland and on the Monday of a major week, is storylines. BP, you mentioned what kind of reaction might we anticipate the LivTor

will get when it's out in Portland. I'm very interested in what kind of reaction these players who were just over in the London Greater area who've already arrived. I mean, you know, kudos to Phil and DJ taking the Sunday off to get themselves across and get some practice in early here at TCC. What kind of reaction are you anticipating this week out of the Boston crowds to

those folks? I look, I think the general public and the general crowd will probably be pretty benevolent and supportive. And I don't think you'll see the critiques that these players might receive in column spaces and on Twitter and from the PGA tour colleagues at large on the ground. I just don't think a golf gallery generally operates that way, except for occasionally with the Bryson Brooks feud at Caves Valley, which I saw up close last year, when Bryson was really kind of put through the rainer. Yeah.

Happened in Hartford. I mean, there were a lot of tournaments. He's getting shit on. Yeah. I just think Bill is such a known. entity and quite honestly fan favorite, I will be influenced for a long time being on the ground at that PGA in Kiowa and just seeing the groundswell for Phil relative to Brooks Kepka, who at that moment was the best

major championship golfer in golf. And it was just a different animal. And I'm not suggesting Phil will receive that kind of support, but it's hard for me to envision him taking a lot of. heckles or critiques or lack of support in Boston. House for me, the story of the week is looking at the odds board. Okay. Because we have so many goddamn good golfers who could win this thing.

Jordan Speath is in the range where you and I start to freak out. He's 24 to one to win the U.S. Open. See, Nate Dogg, this is why we. We have Mr. Poreth on the program today because this gentleman literally played golf at this venue. And my question to like really answer your question, Nate, is like, can everyone win this thing? I don't think so. I think this is a hard mother effort. One of the hardest mother efforts, it's like in that same category as Oakmont in terms of the challenge presented.

and the kind of difficulties that are the rock outroarming yes i mean and and it does have that beautiful new england rough terrain it harkens back to the pilgrims and all all the rest of it i mean you know not i'm not going to go in that direction but bp you you played this place six weeks ago how was it was it was awesome it was it was really cool and obviously this has not been a part of the u.s open rhoda since the late 80s we saw the rider cup there in 99 but at u.s am and 2013, but it feels like a U.S. Open venue. And obviously, it will be again this week. I'm surprised it's been such a long layoff between visits. Hard MFer is a great capturing of it. It will be, I don't think we're going, this is not to suggest Wingfoot is easy, but I think the approach

we saw at Wingfoot where you could bomb and gouge and hit sort of high lofted clubs from rough up to Greens will work here. I think there's much more land movement. The green greens are incredibly undulating. The greens are really small. It's really small greens. We're seeing videos already as we record this. The rough is way up with like four or five, six different cuts up into knee-high fescue.

I think it's par 70, two par fives. It's going to be extremely hard test. I think it'll be an awesome, awesome, interesting. The different landforms like you talked about, it's like this old polo, this old racetrack down at the start, number one. and then like 16, 17, 18, finishing it up. It's like pretty flat ground, right? And it's going to rely on rough and sort of narrow fairways.

But then you go up and it feels like you're in like a state park almost, right? You're hiking up and over rocks and through trees and rolling terrain. It's just a real mix of landforms. My colleague Andy Johnson calls it a mutt, like as a sort of lovable mutt, a beautiful mutt because it has so many different influences, architectural influences. But I think it's to be incredibly hard. And what Hubbard is saying is there are, anyone could win this, but I think you have to be completely dialed in.

And so many big names have been sort of met this year, right? John Rob, while he won at Mexico, hasn't been necessarily on top of his game. Call Moracalla kind of not. He's 29 to 1. I know. I can't believe it. I know. Some of these guys, you have to be on point T to Green.

And then when you get to the green, they're going to be really firm and really fast. The weather looks pretty good. There may be storms on Friday. I think it's going to be incredibly difficult and put these guys in a blender to some of these best in the world that haven't been. I'm not going to say bad, but just haven't been at their peak this year, maybe wiped out. Like we saw a little bit at Southern Hills, right? You saw Collmar, Kyle. You saw Scottie Shepler of all people, get bounced.

So Brendan, and I had the opportunity to watch the video. Everybody should go watch the video of Brendan. with a no laying up guys. You should also watch the video of the fried egg doing the full sort of course preview. Both of those are really instructive if you want to try and get your arms around the test that these guys are going to be confronted with and buy. What I'm looking for in terms of the way that I'm going to build a card here, both for DFS purposes, for gambling purposes, all the purposes that I like to lose money, is looking for the guys that I think have the best mental fortitude. Who can

can be uncomfortable through a round for through four rounds and take the mental beating that this golf course is going to give out because it's going to be, I honestly think that we'll be lucky to get even a couple guys under par for this. I think it's going to be scoring wise, you know, in the vein of that, that old wing foot. I mean, we've been in this mode where we anticipate U.S. opens. Maybe Shinnock only Brooks was the only one. under par. I think it's in that that vein of kind of scoring out there. But I'm really shrinking the pie by the guys that I think have the brains to handle this. Do you do you think that I'm sizing this upright? I mean, that's always a good idea with US opens, right? You can't take sort of the mentally weak and the guys who get way too emotional about bad bounces or a six on the cart. Right. And And yeah, I think that's always an appropriate approach at the U.S. Open.

Now, we've seen it recent U.S. Opens, like, are we in the John Bowdenheimer and Jason Gore era, where maybe, you know, just, I don't want to say embarrassing the players, but what they're old was identifying. We don't want you to embarrass the players. We just want to identify the best ones. That has been by the wayside, right? We've seen some low scores. We've seen sort of a more widespread Democratic leaderboard. I think this is, of course, that maybe doesn't allow itself that.

It's going to kick ass whether they want it to or not. And I think they're setting it up pretty tough. The Bodenheimer and Jason Gore, who are the USDA sort of executives, have made it a little more benign, right? A little more benign. But I don't think Country Club really affords that opportunity. And for that sake alone, you've got to have someone who's mentally pretty even keel and straw. Well, the boards reacted to yesterday's result by pushing Rory and JT to the top.

JT made bogeys on his last two holes. I hated that finish for him. But if those are the criteria, then who are you looking at who's maybe not sitting right at the top of the leaderboard that's being overlooked? Who has those combined qualities of skill has the shots and the mental fortitude to deal with rock outcroppings? I like, I like JT. I know, like he's at the top of the board. So that doesn't answer your question. I do like JT, though.

He's the one who does take a punch of the face and can come back from behind, right? And obviously playing well. Maybe he took a dive there. You know, maybe you took a dive because he didn't want to win the week before. Let Rory go do that, try to do that back-to-back deal. Alexander Shoffley, I know that's not exactly a super deep dark horse. He's always played pretty well at majors, pretty well at U.S. opens, guy who doesn't get most top tens in U.S. opens, I think, over the last.

Yeah. I mean, really from the get-go when he was a quality. at the 17 U.S. Open. I really like Zander Shoffley this week. Tita Green game playing pretty well, started to play well again in the last couple of months of Matthew Fitzpatrick, who won the 2013 U.S. Amateur. Everyone's going to kind of hit that cliche.

Are we over rotating on that, you think? Maybe. Yes. Everyone's going to hit that shrub and cliche, but to see him, it wouldn't be surprised to see him when a post of top 10, right? Top 10. That's fair. I like that.

Not because of his amateur experience, just because of his experience on the toughest courses in how he's played this year. Now, at Sunday, am I going to pick him to get it done? Maybe not. Shane Lowry, just complete Tito Green ace, those kind of players, Corey Connors, really Tee to Green aces. I'd stay away from like a Morikawa and ROM.

Victor Hovlin's not been playing well. Like a lot of big names who maybe have a weakness or just haven't been at their peak, I might hold off on. Who do you think would be the best winner from the PGA Tour's perspective? Like, you know, carrying the banner for the tour. They just got Rory. It's too much to ask for Rory going back to back. If Rory was sort of 1A, who's your 1B?

I mean, I think it's Justin Thomas. Justin Thomas seems as committed and as in lockstep with Rory when it comes to PGA tour, loyalty and commitment. And anything that can boost, continue to boost his star profile is a good thing for the PGA tour who's likely going to retain his membership and services. And for him to go back to back at majors, you know, would be a very strong thing for the PGA tour. And I think he's obviously informed well enough to do that. Speed is always speed.

I thought that was going to be the answer. In fact, I was going to say, you know, who is, who's their best winner from the tourist perspective? And why is the answer, Jordan Speath? I think that's right. Maybe that is instead of JT. Speed, you talked to like, I talked to some of these people at CBS. Like their ratings just always go through the roof when he's in control. attention. He's a different animal. I know he's put on par with all these young big three,

big four era and things like that, but he is a different kind of widespread, you know, gets a widespread audience. So speed would probably be another good one. I just know JT seems quite committed to the PGA tour, not that speed isn't, but continuing to boost JT's profile would be a good one. House, as a Rory Truther, I just want to give you your flowers on yesterday's win. I want you to talk us into Rory this week going back to back. For me, it starts with the turnaround on the back nine because while the broadcast was getting a little goofy, he started duck-hooking drives into the rough on the left. Fourteen, he hit a 262-yard drive that for some reason the announcers and commentators made no real note of. Like, the guy was hitting 360-yard bombs.

14, he duck hooks it into the rough. 15, he duck hooks it into the rough. Again, a sub 300-yard drive that gets caught up. He bogey's 16, and you're thinking, oh, God, he's going to choke this thing away. And then he came back and birdied the last two with drives that he hit where he wanted to. Like, that is the mark of a guy who was on his game when he can fix a swing like that. Is it possible for him to win the U.S. Open? Of course, it's possible.

the thing that I was furiously trying to scroll through the Justin Ray Twitter timeline to find was the aspect of his game that has been missing, which is approach shots. 125 to 150. Yes. And he had an extraordinary for him performance at that. And he had a bad day putting yesterday

while he went around the track and shot a 62. So if that's the version, right, of Rory where there's two three footers. Right, sure. And shot 62. Yeah. So I mean, it definitely in terms of the characteristics that we think of always in connection

with the U.S. Open, but especially with the challenge that, you know, watching the videos this morning was so instructive. You need guys that are going to be able to pound the ball down the golf course. And they need to be, this is not like rocket science that they need to be as accurate as possible.

But if they're not accurate, do they have the strength, the physical strength to advance the ball and deal with the discomfort of not being able to see the tiny greens? There's so many blind shots that came through and false fronts and stuff. Just a lot of visual trickeration BP. Isn't that the case? Yeah. There's a ton of, yes, which is different again from wing foot. You're hitting up to greens that are way elevated. It's just going to be a different kind of test.

Short game approach plays got to be dialed. So I trust Rory, honestly. if he feels like in enough comfort with, honestly, just three out of the four aspects of his game, Nate. Yeah. And as he said to JT. in his ear,

let's do it again next week. So he certainly feels like he's there. That was an all-time approach day from him, though. Did he waste all his ammo on the week too early? I mean, that was at his Roy's wedge. Do you see him popping off kind of talking shit to Sky Sports about, like, I thought I was,

I heard I was a bad wedge player. Like he's feeling himself right now and rightfully so, but I hope it's still there. I mean, obviously that would be just a total frenzy if he gets in contention. I mean, we didn't say he's a bad wedge player. The stats say it. I didn't make it. We're not making up the stats,

Bubba. We love you except for, you know, when you printer things away. Okay. Brendan, you're physically going to be in Boston all week long, which is very exciting. What are the shows this week that you guys have teed up? we will be doing the podcast, the shotgun start,

really daily once the tournament championship starts. We have a Wednesday live show if you're in Boston at the USGA's 19th hole. It's at the High Street Place Food Hall. That's like 6 o'clock on Wednesday. If you're from Boston, we'll be doing a recording there. And then we'll just be riding at the fried egg

and kind of on the ground. It should be a really cool, really weird, right? With this sort of combined fields of few live guys with a lot of the PGA tour regulars. It should be a weird. enthusiastic, like amazing week on an awesome, awesome course venue. I'm pumped. Well, if the sports gods are kind, I believe it's going to be the case that the Nate

dog and I are going to be physically in attendance, definitely like Thursday morning. So we will hunt you down, shout you out, maybe even Wednesday night. We might sneak over there. Are they serving beer at this venue that you're doing this show from? They better if they want to, if people want to indulge and have to listen to us for like an hour. They won't be $18 of Mikkelob Ultras, right? No, I hope not. I hope not. Or else we'll have to pick up the tab because I'm not bringing friends and family and suckering them into that.

Yeah, the goddamn PGA championship. Anyway, let's on on that positive note. Thank you so much for coming on home, boy. It was long overdue. We're here in the DMV, me and you. Nate, next time Nate's here, the three of us are going to go out and do some DMV golf damage, I promise. I would love to. It was an honor.

Thank you guys for inviting me on. All right. There we go, my birdie buddies, my part saving pals, my eagle enthusiasts. We're back as is our way here on major championship week. Justin Ray will be on. That show will go up Tuesday night into Wednesday morning so that you can sit down with your card and try and figure out how this extraordinarily difficult challenge that awaits might be conquered and by whom.

Until then, please hit them straight out there.