Fake Doctors, Real Friends with Zach and Donald - Jillian Turecki, Relationships are Projection

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

Jillian Turecki, aka the breakup fairy godmother, has been Zach's lifeline as he explores dating. Her unique approach to relationship advice, heavily influenced by her years as a yoga instructor, is to instill in her clients the ability to look into the mirror and confront their patterns with confidence. Zach and Donald discuss resentment, communication, and what makes a person feel safe in a relationship. Plus, a visit from CaCee. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hi, I'm Arturo Castro, and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly, guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get Ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week, I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians, people like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, and Joseph Gordon-Levitt. I love storytelling and I love you, so I can't wait. Listen and subscribe to Greatest Escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What would you do if mysterious drones appeared over your hometown? I started asking questions. What do you remember happening on that night of December 16th? It actually rotated around our house looking as if it was peering in each window of our home. I'm Gabe Linners from Imagine, I Heart Podcasts and Linners Entertainment. Listen

to Obscura, Invasion of the Drones wherever you get your favorite podcasts. What if you asked two different people the same set of questions? Even if the your favorite podcasts. season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe and Cord Jefferson. Listen to mini questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. Hey man, what are you into? I have the hookup. The hookup? The hookup for what? I'm solving a mystery through sex

and haven't made a private dick joke until now? Poppers? Why are there so many poppers? All roads lead to... The hookup. You think it's causing people to turn aggro? I'm gonna rip your arms off and use them to... Yeah, that's a word for it.

Listen to The Hookup starting February 14th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Now I'm ready to make some magic. Okay, well let's make some magic. Then hold on. How you doing? What's going on?

Where's Daniel? We can't all fucking ever meet together in this fucking podcast? I'm so sorry. He's got responsibilities in New York he must take care of. Well, let me tell you something. Back in the day, Joelle, we used to have perfect attendance on this podcast. It's your fault. They gave us more responsibility.

Like, wow, you guys are so good with those guys. Here's additional responsibilities now. Oh, really? That's what happens. That's what happens on TV shows. By the way, Bill was telling me, he says, the reason TV shows are so good at the beginning is you get an amazing group of writers

and then the show gets popular and then every single writer gets poached off to go make their own thing, which is good for them, give everybody their flowers. But then the show takes a downturn because you lost the original amazing posse that made the show great. I think you tore the magic.

If you're wondering why your favorite show changed, it's because it got too popular and all the writers got poached. You know who's going through that right now big time? The Marvel Cinematic Universe. Everybody is leaving that bad boy, yo. What do you mean? Everybody.

What do you mean, the actors or the writers? The executives, the creatives, all of them are either leaving and or, you know, being pushed aside. I'm very interested to see what happens with that. Like trying to recreate what they did in the first 10 years and do it again in the 10 years that follow, it's gonna be very difficult.

They're just gonna, I think they're gonna bring everybody back. All those people that are gonna make offers they can't refuse. And then little by little, you'll have the whole OG squad. Oh, I'm talking about actors. No, I feel that. I feel that.

No, I feel like they're gonna bring all the actors back too. And they will make offers that they can't refuse. I mean, Chris Evans already back. They'll be like Hammer Studios. Yeah. I'm sure Scarlett, they're gonna do something with Scarlett. There's no way., Chris Evans already back. They'll be like Hammer Studios. Yeah. I'm sure Scarlett, they're gonna do something with Scarlett. There's no way. They'll figure it out. They'll figure it out.

She got that Jurassic Park. Okay, we got a lot to talk about. Before I guess, George. I don't know where to begin. I mean, I don't even know where to begin. First of all, all right, I'll tell you where we can begin. Where could we possibly, we haven't done this in how long, Jewel? We haven't gathered. Almost a month.

I think a full month since we last met. The city almost burned to the ground. So we, audience, we're taping this on the 28th of January. And we had to take a pause, obviously, because of the fires, which were devastating here and very scary. And this is the first time we. We had Johnny on that day, bro. And we were talking about. We had scheduled the day the fire started, yeah. We were talking about it on the show,

how I could see the smoke over the hill. Let me tell you something, that shit got 0.8 miles away from me. Not only that, the night after we spoke to Johnny, eight fires, something like eight fires erupted all over California. It was ridiculous. You had to evacuate your house too, bro.

Yes, in fact, what was crazy was I was housing the Lawrence family. Bill's family was very close to the Palisades fire. And so I said, come to my place, please, because I wanted to rescue them and I had the bedroom. So they came to mine and then we were sitting down to dinner and we're obviously glued to the TV, like everyone, and we look up

and Runyon Canyon is on fire. Now Runyon Canyon is very close to me. And we were like, we got to get the fuck out of here. We're running out of places to go. So we actually So I offered. Yeah, you did. You did. And we ended up going to Andrew Watts studio

because it was deep in the valley. And we kind of went there and regrouped to just be like, where do we go now? Cause all the hotel rooms were taken. It was really scary. Both, but you know, for those of you don't know LA, the worst fires, the Altadena fire and the Palisades fire, they're pretty far from each other. So two different areas

that are really far apart from each other were burning to the ground. We thought we were safe in where I live, but then the third big one started and thank God the firefighters were able to put that that run you in fire out real quick And I was only we were only evacuated for a night here It got real dicey where I was like this fire was so close that at nighttime It seemed like I was surrounded by like an orange glow and that got really scary and then every neighborhood in my vicinity Got evacuated, except for my little, you know, when you go to watch duty,

every section around my little section got evacuated. And it just seemed like, oh, we're going to get evacuated next. We packed the car up. We packed all of our pets up. Where were you going to go? We were, we were trying to figure it out. It seemed like everywhere you could go,

there was a fire blazing, you know what I mean? Well, I told you, worst case scenario, just come to my house and we'll put you on couches. They had just put that fire out in your neighbor, I mean, in your area, you know what I mean? And so that was, it was, you know, it was dicey. Some people fled to Palm Springs, some people fled to Palm Springs. Some people fled to other friends houses.

Look, I know a lot of people as well as you do that have lost their everything. You know what I mean? It's kind of crazy. It's like you pick four people, right? And you know, four people that have lost all of their stuff. They know four people and more that have lost all of their stuff. They know four people and more that have lost all of their stuff, whether it be their neighbors or people who lived in the area.

It's like- Yeah, my friend lost everything, everything. He said, the hardest thing is like, so much of it is hard to grasp, he said, but the hardest thing is that everything his kids have ever had, their favorite stuffed animal, their favorite toy, their, A, they got on their paper in class, anything that they have any memory of or growing up is gone.

It was nuts, man. It was nuts. But thankfully the firefighters were able to contain both fires. You know, it's really amazing how California came together. People went out and donated their clothes and donated food and donated water. How badass are those firemen and women? I mean, those, the ones in the chopper,

I mean, all of them, period. So brave and just, we just owe so much gratitude to them. But watching those videos of those planes and choppers dumping water and those pilots flying into that smoke and fire, it's just so. These cats are doing Millennium Falcon moves in D16s and shit like that, man.

It was like, holy cow, bro. No, when you play, you know, when you, on the WatchDuty app, for those of you who don't know, WatchDuty is this wildfire app that everyone in LA downloaded because it showed you where the fires were. And then there's another tier, which I paid for, which it shows you exactly where every firefighting aircraft was, which was really cool because you could see like, oh, that's where they're throwing all the attention.

That must be the worst spot right there. It was really fascinating and just so incredibly how I'm blown away by how brave these men and women are. Yeah, it's amazing. It truly was amazing to see LA come together like that. A fire come through by me the other day and out in my neighborhood, I was like a kid. I was no different than a five-year-old. I was like, thumbs up.

I was like doing the fake bow. I was doing this fucking thing where you cheer on both sides of your head. I'm sure that everyone has that response to them, but I wanted to like hug them because my house survived. Yeah. The crazy thing is, is that people that did lose homes are having a hard time finding new places to live.

To rent, to buy. And they're backing up the prices. And the prices are gouged and everything. Yeah, I mean, people are, that's going to rent, to buy. And they're backing up the prices. And the prices are gouged and everything. Yeah, I mean, people are, that's gonna be, I don't know where all those people are gonna live. It's so crazy. Let's move on to another. Let's talk about other topics. Go ahead, what else you got?

How about Skeleton Crew? What a way back Star Wars. Way to go, Star Wars. You did it. You came back from the depths of, and I'm drooling, that's how much I loved it. It came back from the depths of, I don't know if I wanna watch Star Wars anymore

to now, Star Wars is back. I don't think they need to do anything else with any other characters. Let's focus. Juel, do you feel the same about this show? Let me finish, let me finish. They should focus on those four characters. The kids, that's the new group of Star Wars,

that's the new Star Wars right there. We had Luke, Leia, and Han, and Chewie. Now we got Wim, freaking, and the rest of them. Let's stay there, bro, that was fire. Okay, Joelle, how do you feel the same as a Star Wars devotee? It's wonderful that Star Wars has returned to its roots, which is to make entertainment for children.

Joelle, you're gonna need to use your volume and get off your NPR voice. I'm so sorry, I'm trying to be mellow. Skeleton crew is back. I enjoy it, it's a very good occasion. J'la is magical. I think, I I enjoy it. It's a very good TV show. Jude Law is magical. I think, I have a theory that Joelle is on another podcast and she has to play a different character on that podcast.

I'm gonna bet she is. And then she forgets to switch to high energy, silly Joelle when she comes on this one. I'm gonna code switch back to the hyperactive version of me when I get over here. Yeah, you need to code switch, Joelle. So okay, I'm gonna work on it. Yeah.

I think Star Wars' best decision was that they cast Jude Law. That guy is magical. And he does such a good job of being both the sparkling, winking character and also genuinely terrifying at some points. And to be able to do both is really challenging, but to do both in like seconds of each other is masterful. Yeah, I think we're going to see Wim in the Rey series. That seems to be the prevailing thought.

They did a good job. It was fun. I was entertained. I think kids really like it. They needed kids to come back to Star Wars. So that's a positive. Andor's around the corner. So it looks like things are coming up good for Star Wars.

I'll watch Andor. I'll kill. I like Andor. Yeah, you. So it looks like things are coming up good for Star Wars. I'll watch Andor. I like Andor. Yeah, you will. It's fucking crazy. I gotta say, I'm watching a new show, for those of you who don't care about Star Wars, it's so good. It's called The Pit.

Oh, you like The Pit? Good choices. You know, it's compared to, they say if you like The Pit, you'll love scrubs. That's what they say. Well, no, you're not serious. The pit is- I am serious.

Well, the pit, just for those who don't know the premise, first of all, Noah Wiley is back. I don't know why he was gone for so long. He is such a good actor. And the premise of the pit is it's 15 episodes and each episode is an hour of this doctor's life in a very intense ER in Pittsburgh. And so he's the lead doctor in the ER

and all of these stories are unfolding and every episode is an hour in real time. And it is so good. The acting is excellent. The characters are excellent. The stories are so intriguing. You feel like it's building and building and building to something.

I highly, highly recommend it. I wish there were more. I wish I could binge it. They're doing that fucking thing where it comes out every week. I need them. I need them. I'm very happy for Moa, man.

Me too. He's a good fucking actor. Not only that, man, you know, he was the guy from ER for a really long time, and to find a way to shed that character. Well, he's back to playing an ER doctor, but I didn't watch ER, but I don't know that it's the same character,

but he's such a fine actor. He is well-deserved. There's that word again. He's well-deservant. Do we ever just decide if that's a word or not, Joelle? It's in the dictionary now, because of us. It's in our dictionary. Because of us. It's in our dictionary. But he is well-deservant of the hype, of the accolades,

of the amount of viewership that show is getting, because he is a very, very fine actor, as you said before. He is, he is, and I gotta say, I always root for people when they somehow go away for whatever reason. I'm not saying he wasn't working, I don't mean to say he wasn't working, I'm sure he was, but now he's back in a very high profile HBO Max show,

and he's one of those actors that I go, God, I love watching him, he's back in a very high profile HBO Max show. And he's one of those actors that I go, God, I love watching him. He's so interesting. I root for him. There was a reason ER was great and it wasn't just George Clooney. He had a lot to do with it, a lot. Well, this is John Wells as well.

Joelle, didn't he create ER? I believe so. Let me just double check that factor. They're a good team. Put those two in a hospital ER show and I'm in. I never really watched ER to be honest. I know it's extremely popular because it's been on for 75 years.

But this is a different take. And I think actually Scrubs fans who are listening, you will love it because obviously there's no comedy, but it's a, I'm sure a very, very accurate telling of what it's like for these people in an inner city trauma center. It's just so realistic to me for someone who pretended to be a doctor for a while, and it's a teaching hospital, just like Scrubs was. So you're seeing them try and attend to all the patients, but at the same time, trying to educate the younger kids. And I don't know, I just find it fascinating. Okay, so Michael Crichton created ER, is that correct?

Michael Crichton did create it. John Wells had nothing to do with ER? I'm not saying he had nothing to do with it, but I think Michael Crichton created it. I'm not good at it. That is not false. John Wells, I think was associated with it, but I could be wrong.

I've been wrong seven times in my life. Hey, okay, so let's move on. What's the next topic, Donald? I'm still sober. Oh! Congratulations! Hold on, I gotta dust off my thunderous applause button. But okay, I can hear you.

I'm not going to lie. I did have a drink or two while out eating sushi. Okay. But for the most part, how are you feeling? You know what sucks is that the appetite has come back and I didn't think, and I didn't want to- Even without ganja. Even without ganja.

I'm eating more now than I did when I was smoking weed. And that's the crazy thing. How's your workouts going? I work out, you know, it's not every day. It should be every day. I'm 50. So I should be working out every day, but I work out. It's still, but I think the amount of food I'm consuming, you know, bypasses and shuts. Yeah, you're eating too many calories.

Way too many calories. Is there a way you can, since you're on a roll with everything else, is there a way you can, you know, get it, get onto a good habit with, uh, with not overeating? I think there is I you know I thought it was cooking at home It just so happens that I cook a lot of food and eat that shit You know, yeah, I saw you post like fried chicken or something. I made that shit and it was good, baby Let me tell you something that shit was good look at that i'm getting titties and everything that shit was good I'm getting titties and everything. That shit was good.

Did you screw yourself up? Don't play with them while we're shooting. There's video on this now. No one wants to see that. You know, that's the sign of you doing the right thing. When your woman does this, when you're hitting it, you're doing the right thing. For those of you listening, he is grabbing his breasts and playing with his nipples. We'll have to ask Gillian Turecki if that's what he thought was going on.

Oh no, let's not do that. I don't think we should do that. I don't think we should do that. But yeah, man, that's the one thing. Well, I'm proud of you. That's very good. I'm doing pretty good myself. I took a tiny break because I went skiing

and I had a couple of drinks skiing. But I'm, for good myself. I took a tiny break because I went skiing and I had a couple of drinks skiing, but I'm for the most part continuing my mostly booze-less 2025. Good for you. Very nice. Stay sober. Well, I'd feel so much better when I don't put that shit in my body personally.

You know what I'm noticing now? Go ahead. When I eat shitty food, now I feel bad after eating shitty food. Like my body doesn't respond to it. Well, your body doesn't want that shit. Yeah, that these are things I'm learning. I went skiing, which was a lot of fun. I went to we were at Sundance, but we didn't really go to much Sundance stuff

because the the secret trick about Sundance, if you don't have a movie there and you're not going to see movies, is that the ski mountains are empty. So you can ski and all the people are at the festival. So how'd you ski? Oh, very nice. I did pretty good. For a guy who skis once or twice a year,

I think I'm pretty decent. Cross country, downhill, where we talking? Downhill, yeah, downhill skiing. Along with a bunch of folks you know, Donald. All white, obviously, because ain't no black people skiing. No, no, just when you find her being clever, Nichelle came. Nichelle went, can she ski?

She didn't ski, but she came. Yeah, exactly. She was like, I'ma hang out. I'ma hang out, but I ain't going out in that cold ass weather. My people- She had fits. She had fits for days though.

I bet she did. I bet she had- You should see the fits. You know how I feel about Nichelle. Nichelle fine. Yeah, she is fine. And she has a lot of fits. So she came prepared with every time we went out, she had a better fit on than the- I would

just have like sweatpants and shit. Amazing. She was like, no, no, no. This is my skiing outfit. You going skiing, girl? No, but this is my outfit. Jillian's here, guys. All right, let's invite Jillian. Five, six, seven, eight.

I said, here's the stories about a show we made, about a bunch of doctors and nurses and a Canada who love and hate. I said, here's the stories about a show we made, about a bunch of doctors and nurses and a Canada who love and hate. I said, here's the stories about a show we made, about a bunch of doctors and nurses and a Canada who love and hate. I said, here's the stories about a show we made, about a bunch of doctors and nurses and a Canada who love and hate.

I said, here's the stories about a show we made, about a bunch of doctors and nurses and a Canada who love and hate. I said, here's the stories about a show we made, about a bunch of doctors and nurses and a Canada who love and hate. I said, here's the stories about a show we made, about a bunch of doctors and nurses and a Canada who love and hate. I said, here's the stories about a show we made, about a bunch of doctors and nurses and Jillian Turecki is an extremely gifted, wise woman when it comes to dating advice. I just want to start off by saying, if you are trying to date or looking for love in all the wrong places, you should be following Gillian Turecki on Instagram because she drops knowledge bombs all day long. Thank you so much. Welcome back to the program, Gillian.

Like I was saying, you fucked him up. Well, how did you fuck me up? I mean, I was trying to use her advice. And you did, and it was in a good way. You know what I mean? It was like, you went from not really, you know, not really certain on what it was you wanted or how you wanted it and all of that stuff

to being very specific. You were very specific and you were very specific about your actions too. Gillian has a new book, your first book, right? Yeah, it's my first book. Your first book and it's called It Begins With You. Now, if you're dating, if you're out there, if you're dispirited, if you're frustrated, I highly recommend getting this book. I'm going to read it myself. Or even if you're in a relationship or a marriage.

Okay, because it helps you keep it going in a successful way? Or it just helps you if you're having any sort of relationship issue, if you're in a relationship and struggling as well as if you're dating. I like the title because I believe in that. I think one of the things that Donald's alluding to is that I had to look at how I was behaving in terms of how I was showing up and how I was communicating. Because for personally, I think one of my biggest, I'll just share openly right off the bat, is I get afraid to speak my mind and what I'm really feeling and I hold it

in and I walk on eggshells and I don't want to cause a problem. And then I hold in all these feelings. And then someone told me a great quote, which was that anger, it turns into resentment when you hold it inside. And then resentment held in for too long turns into depression.

And that really kind of landed with me because I was just being a wimp about communicating, right? I'll let you take it from there, but that's the title of your book. It begins with you. Yeah. So bravo for, I mean, the whole point is to kind of, I want to encourage people to find the courage to look in the mirror

and ask themselves the really difficult question, how might I be contributing to that which I say I don't want? And that can be applied to every aspect of life. I specifically apply it to romantic relationships. And so, you know, we all have our stuff. None of us go into a relationship perfect. We all have, we all are afraid that we're not enough in some way. And that is not, that fear isn't the same for everyone, it exists on the spectrum, but there's no place other than a romantic situation, a relationship or dating scenario, where we are not going to be confronted with that fear that somehow we are not enough, more. That's where it's going to happen. So when you refer to, I hold it in, first of all, that's a very common narrative with men.

It's not, I mean, women do it too, but I do notice a lot of men in relationships, there's a fear of disappointing. There's a fear of, if I express my feelings, am I going to look like a wimp? Or am I going to be heard or understood? We all want to be heard and understood. And so this idea of, well, I don't express my feelings, so I walk around on eggshells. Like typically, and I would imagine this is the case for you and for a lot of people will say, well, then it's the other person, right?

And look, you may be, one may be in a relationship where the other person is more of the problem. I don't really love this platitude that's out there like, yes, the problem is me, you know, from a Taylor Swift song or whatever. But it's just that if you want, you have to be the change that you want to see in your relationship.

So what are your patterns? What are your patterns from how you choose to how you show up? And by the way, here's some really important insight for you. Everything that you do in a relationship that you're like, maybe I shouldn't be doing that. You're doing it because you don't want to lose love. So the intention is always pure. The intention is always to self-protect and to self-preserve.

I think a lot of times for me, it's that I don't wanna cause waves. I had, you know, my father had quite a temper when I was a child and I think I have some trauma from arguing. Not that my relationships are on the level, arguments are on the level of my father screaming at me as a child. But I think that one thing I've sort of looked at in therapy is really wanting to avoid confrontation. Just because I had this childhood trauma from even a mild argument, even a mild amount of tension.

My anxiety rises. And it probably obviously applies to other areas of my life, but since we're here talking to you about relationships. And so I found when I was taking a look at stuff, partially inspired by you, that I, yeah, that I was avoiding any kind of, even the most mild confrontation, just to not go there and not to have uncomfortable conversations, which is so fucking unhealthy because the more you swallow it,

the more you keep it inside, you become very resentful to the person. Obviously this applies to friendships and family members as well, but let's talk about relationships. You become resentful to your partner and they haven't really done anything necessarily because you're the one who isn't having the courage to communicate, correct? Yes, absolutely. And I'll add something else.

This is a really interesting paradox. In your attempt to sort of keep the peace and to not want to create any waves or not have, you know, you want to avoid the confrontation so you go into a little bit of avoidance. You actually become, when you do that, unsafe to your partner because what makes a person safe in a relationship is always being upfront about where you stand and where the other person stands in your heart. And when you're avoiding the conversations,

you are in your own way avoiding the truth. And if you avoid the truth, then people can never really feel totally secure with you. Because then they think, well, number one, they think, can I have an argument with this person and know that it's going to be okay? Can I trust that this person is actually gonna tell me how they feel or are they just gonna tell me

what I wanna hear? And so these conversations, the way to reframe it is, look, I don't like to, I mean, I don't want to have these difficult conversations either, but you do it in service of the relationship. So if you, if you stop thinking it from, from the perspective of, oh, I'm doing this because I need to speak my truth or I'm doing this because they need to know my needs. If we can remove it from that sort of selfish lens, which we tend to, we, you know, even the most giving and loving of us can tend to be selfish in these scenarios because we are so afraid.

If we can instead say, you know what, what is, what is the best thing for my relationship with this person? The truth. Okay. So if I know it's the truth, now it's about how do I deliver it? How do I express it? Then there's the art of and the science behind having that conversation. Amen. That's well said.

You know, that's, that's, that's, I find in my relationship, we don't have a hard time talking about anything until it turns into the kids. You know what I mean? And we have I think that's where and part of it is like, all right, their kids and, you know, some of these things they'll grow out of. Some of these things we have to address now. But for some reason, when it gets to the kids, I'm very, maybe it's because I'm afraid to have the conversation about them, but I'm very, very, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Whatever. Yeah. Whatever you, you know what I mean? Whatever you want to do, whatever it is you want to do, let's, we'll, we'll do that. And sometimes it's not what I wanna do, but, you know, I don't wanna fuck my kids up, you know what I mean? And I know she doesn't wanna fuck the kids up either. And so-

So are you saying that you're not, are you saying just so I'm clear, that you're not fully expressed about what you're feeling about what you wanna do with the kids, because you're like, I don't wanna fuck them up, I'll just yield to whatever you're saying. Absolutely. And that's not healthy, and I know't wanna fuck them up, I'll just yield to whatever you're saying. Absolutely. And that's not healthy and I know it's not healthy.

And I see myself doing it. And it's like, I get short tempered when we talk about the kids. I get, you know what I mean? Like it's a bunch of things. It's kind of a similar thing, Donald. It's kind of like avoiding something challenging because you're like, I don't wanna fuck something up.

I mean, what we're all talking about right now is anxiety. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, that's at the end. And fear of, and fear, I mean, it's very scary. I know it's different when you're in a marriage, I've never been in one,

but I think it's very scary to be vulnerable and trust someone on the level that you do when you're in a relationship. And I think that those of us who are anxious folks, try and avoid, and that's unhealthy. Yeah, it's unhealthy and it's not helpful, right? And I think it's about, it's not helpful, right? And I think it's about seeing it from the other perspective on how that rather than just labeling it as unhealthy,

it's let me see how an alternative would actually just benefit everyone. And it doesn't actually have to be that scary. But yeah, and I think that a lot of people avoid these hard conversations because maybe they're afraid of disappointing someone. I mean, we're all just afraid of disappointing. We're afraid of, you know, I don't want anything to disrupt the peace and the flow. So it's just easier for me to just say yes and look, I mean, there's some value to saying yes a lot of the time and not creating a bunch of confrontation. Right.

It's a balance. You got to pick your time too, right? Yeah, you do. Yeah, absolutely. My therapist was saying that like one of the things he does in his relationship is they'll have a very kind way of saying, now's not the time, obviously, but when the time is right, let's just clear this up so we don't have this thing in the air. And I thought that was really healthy.

Yeah, it is. Let's take a break. We'll be right back after these fine words. Hi, I'm Arturo Castro, and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos after these fine words. about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians to tell them a buckwild tale from across history and time. People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, and Zoe Chow.

Titanic. Charles Manson. Alcatraz. Asada Shakur. The sketchy guy named Steve. It's giving funny true crime. I love storytelling and I love you, so I can't wait. Listen and subscribe

to Greatest Escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something about Mary Poppins? Something about Mary Poppins. Exactly. Oh man, this is fun. I'm AJ Jacobs and I am an author and a journalist and I tend to get obsessed with stuff. And my current obsession is puzzles. And that has given birth to my podcast, The Puzzler. Dressing. Dressing.

Oh, French dressing. Exactly. Ha ha ha! Oh, that's good! Now you can get your Daily Puzzle Nuggets delivered straight to your ears. I thought to myself, I bet I know what this is. And now I definitely know what this is. This is so weird.

This is fun. Let's try this one. Our brand new season features special guests like Chuck Bryant, Mayim Bialik, Julie Bowen, Sam Sanders, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, and lots more. Listen to The Puzzler every day

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's awful, and I should have seen it coming. Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here? Go slower? I met Santi at a luau party in October. I'm Santi.

Damien. Oh, it was bizarre. The guy just disappeared one day. Santi has been missing ever since. The hookup. What is that? I'm solving a mystery through sex and haven't made a private dick joke until now? Like no matter how hard I try, all roads lead to...

The hookup. You think it's causing people to turn aggro? I'm gonna rip your arms off and use them to f- Yeah, that's a word for it. This is such terrible representation, I'm so sorry. Poppers? These aren't just any poppers. Mama always used to say,

God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. No, my psychiatrist didn't laugh at that one either. Listen to The Hook Up starting February 14th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. John Stewart is back at The Daily Show and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast.

Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports, and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors. And with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, this and go, okay, you're right,

I have been holding it in, I haven't been fully expressing myself to my partner in these ways. How do you begin to approach that? Because you want to do it in the right way. You also have to have a partner that's willing to, it goes without saying, but let's say it, you have to have a partner that's willing to, it goes without saying, but let's say it, you have to have a partner that's willing to go into these conversations with you. They have to be willing to want to work on your communication or whatever your conundrum

is in your relationship. If they're not down to participate in it evolving, then that tells you, you sort of hit a dead end, haven't you? Yeah. I mean, both people really have, I mean, there's, it's the way that you bro that tells you, you sort of hit a dead end, haven't you? Oh yeah, I mean, both people really have, I mean, it's the way that you broach a topic, you know? I mean, you're not really gonna get a great response from someone if you're like, we need to talk about this right now,

and you, you, you, you, you, right? You're not gonna get a good response that way. No, that's not gonna work out well. It's not gonna work out well. But yeah, I mean, look, I think that one of the most underrated, two of the most underrated relationship skills is one, being able to give feedback with care and two, being able to receive that feedback and to have a conversation about it. Yeah.

Talk more about that, about having a, having without a counselor because I know some people Get to a point where they have a counselor sort of helping them moderate that moderating their discussion But if someone's not there yet, how do you approach it with your partner? In such a way that you want to pivot to better communication without them feeling like you're attacking them Why don't you give me an example of something and I will give you a script? How does that sound? No, like maybe like a topic. Well, Donald, I'm not in a relationship right now, so maybe Donald can... But you've been in relationships, so...

Yes, I have. Donald, you want to go first? Sure. So here's the thing. We have conversations sometimes about how the kids talk to us. And it's very clear that the reason why they talk to us the way they talk to us is because of how we talk to each other and how we talk to them as well. You know what I mean? Are they being rude?

Oh, my kids can be one of the rudest kids. You know what I mean? Like, as a matter of fact, I'd really like, if you wouldn't mind, I would like to get my wife to be able to hear some of this. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, wife to be able to hear songs. No, no, no, no, no, we don't have time for her right now. She's not gonna say anything. Get out of here, man. I'm gonna go get her. Hold on. Jesus. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Play the song, Daniel.

We have to play her theme song. KC, come down here. I don't know nothing about raising these fools. So tell me what to do. I don't know nothing about raising these kids. And that's what it is. All right, there she is. This is Jillian.

Hi. I feel like we have great communication, but when it comes to the kids, that's when I kind of, whatever you want to do, babe, however it is you want to do it. Well, I'll explain it to them. There's probably two sides, but go ahead. Yeah, well, we're talking about communication, and Jillian is a dating and a couples communication expert. And we were talking about how you guys can get in arguments

about how to handle it when the kids are rude to you. And she was going to guide Donald through a way that you guys can communicate it in a more healthy way. Well, here's something that's really helpful for kids, if I might share. Pick three things, three really helpful for kids, if I might share. Pick three things, three really attainable things, things that they can attain, three things that they need to do, which is sort of like a rule in order for them to, I don't know, keep their phone

for the week. But it's just three things. So it's not a whole list of a bunch of rules, but just three things and things that they can actually accomplish. So would they be like chores? Yeah, but only three, but only three things like, you know, on Mondays, I'm just, this is so random on Mondays, you have to take out the trash. Okay. And when you get home from school, you have to spend 20 minutes in your room, chilling out,

and then you can go do whatever. Or you have to do 20 minutes of homework between this and this. And then the third one is something, again, easy for them to attain. Not so many rules. I don't know how old are your kids? 11 and 9. So not so many rules. We don't have many rules.

But you have to have the three. That's true. That's the problem. Yeah, maybe that's the problem is that there's no rules. So you just have to make it very simple for them. Like, you know, mommy and daddy and I, you know, discussed this and, you know, there are three things that needs to be done.

And this is them and make sure it's just really, really simple, really clear. And then if they do that for like, let's say three weeks or at the end of the week, they get some sort of reward. Okay. No, I'm all for structure. This one's- The reward system works very well.

It's a really effective strategy. Well, Donald was mentioning before he came on, Casey, that you guys sort of argue yourselves about how to handle when the kids are speaking disrespectfully to you. Yeah. What are your thoughts versus Donald's? Well, I don't know what Donald said, but what I think the problem is, is that we're all together all the time. So there's no... Obviously obviously they're good kids.

They're not, I've seen bad kids. I don't have bad kids really. But, but they do start speaking to us as if we're all peers because we're all together all the time. And I like, for instance, our daughter did some, my daughter's been sick and I've been home, stuck in the house for three days, literally nursing her, coddling her,

waiting on her hand and foot. And then last night she got her homework and just flipped out on me and attacked me because of her homework. She attacked all of us. She attacked all of us, but directed towards me. And you know, I'm like, you can go to bed if you don't wanna hang out and be respectful.

She was like, all right, bet. So she goes to bed at six o'clock and she will power through it the whole night. But then she started coming downstairs and being really disrespectful. And I told Donald, I said, you need to go upstairs and have a talk with her about how she's speaking to me. Cause I didn't feel like me speaking to her

at that moment was gonna help. I had already said what I needed to say. He was like, what? I'm playing my game. So here's the most important thing. No, but that boiled down to, I don't wanna go upstairs and say some shit that fucks her up. You know what I mean? Like I don't want to go upstairs and say some shit that fucks her up.

You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to go upstairs and punish her. I don't want to raise my voice and yell at her and stuff like that. You don't have to raise your voice. Because I don't think that's going to... I mean, I can do that with my boy. I could do that all the time. But with my daughter, I feel like there's a... It's the same... Well, I mean, Zach just shared that his father yelled at him all the time and what that created. So we don't want, it's not about yelling at your kids ever,

really. I mean, here's the thing. When it comes to child rearing, the most important thing, and when it comes to actually, when it comes to any relationship, this is a marriage, a romantic relationship. This boils down to all the principles in my book. Our marriage is romantic, hold on now.

What, exactly. It's all about managing your internal state. So when we're triggered, right? Whatever it is, someone we're dating says something or does something, or kids says, you know, being fresh and says something or does something, or kids says, you know, being fresh and says something or does something, or a parent or a partner, whatever, spouse. It's always about managing our, this is not easy by the way, at all.

And you will fail, we will all fail. There's great magic in saying to the person you love, whoever that person is, I just lost control over there and I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry that it came out like that. That was not cool. But because it's really about managing our internal states.

And so much of all relationships is projection. It's you are not saying, doing and being the way that I want you to be. And that makes me feel very out of control. This 100% pertains to parenting. That makes me feel out of control. That makes me feel anxious that somehow I'm going to be messing up or have some messed up kid or I'm not going to be enough for my partner. But we have to manage our projections all the time. Whoever you are in relationship with, regardless again of who that person is, they are autonomous beings with their own brains, their own mouths, their own everything.

And sometimes they're going to do stuff that we are gonna take really personally, but it's not personal. And so, just so as not to take this into the direction of how to child rear, cause I know that's not the focus of today. But what I will say that I really believe is invaluable advice is manage your internal state. And if your child is acting out, manage your internal state.

That doesn't mean that you allow behavior that is unacceptable, but just keep managing your reaction. Maybe there's something going on with her or him in that moment. Maybe they're hungry. Maybe there's some hormonal change happening because based on their ages, I would imagine there's a lot starting to happen. There's a lot between my age and her age. Yeah, exactly. You got perimenopause and then someone who's like going to be menstruating soon or whatever it is.

So have a little under mindfulness around that and how that can be adding to the dynamic. And you need to be mindful of that too. Well, that's what I was worried about too yesterday when you were like, go talk to her. In my mind, I was like, what if this is something that I, you know, I don't really know nothing about? Like, what if she's going in? But in that moment, she just wants you to have her back because she feels so powerless. Got it.

And instead, by you not controlling your internalness towards me, I took it as, I don't feel like getting up off the couch to go handle this problem. No, that wasn't what it is. But the reality is what's happening is that his avoidance of that is fear. In that moment, she's wanting a protector, an ally.

She's feeling helpless and hopeless. Yeah. So now- What's interesting, sorry to interrupt you, but what's interesting is just as you take this apart and having it not even be about the child, it's about two people that have totally different stories going on in their heads.

Yes. And then they're both upset because they're living something can be about the child, it's about two people that have totally different stories going on in their heads. And then they're both upset because they're living something that isn't on the same page. And that moment, they can't necessarily communicate that. But now as we analyze it, you go, oh, this is why you're both upset, because you want this and you have different expectations of what this moment should be,

and you're not on the same page. Yes, I think that's very well said. I agree completely. And that's actually a chapter in the book, The Mind is a Battlefield. So you have to be really mindful of how the mind can work. Oh, he doesn't love me, he doesn't care, he's just sitting on the couch, he's not my protector. Oh my God, she's going to put me in a position where I'm going to completely have this, I'm going to interfere with my relationship with my daughter and then I'm going

to mess something up. So it begins with having that kind of vulnerable, transparent conversation with each other. Right. That's what I was going to say. That's what I want to lead to is that. So in the ideal world and these two people, the next day when things are calm would get together and say, Hey, can we talk a minute for a second about last night? I felt that, you know, this is what I felt

without making the other person wrong. This is what I felt, right? So you would say the story that I'm telling myself about this, the way that I perceive this, I know that this could be a story that I'm making up. My experience though, and how I was feeling was this. And then the other person can say, you know, validate, validate, validate, validate, I hear you, validate, validate, validate.

Because a lot of, and men of course deserve validation, but understand that women definitely go through life with a lot of people not validating their experience. So just validate and then, you know, and you have to validate his as well, of course. And then say- Yeah, but then you are able to say, then you can validate and say, I hear you. I don't want you to feel that way.

My experience of that, my story was totally different. This is what I felt. And that's why we had this argument. But so you're not putting it on the other person to say, you're wrong, you did X, Y, Z. You're saying, let me tell you. You're taking full responsibility. Full responsibility for your feelings.

This is what I felt. For your story. For your story. Yes, I want to take full responsibility for my story. This is what I felt. Nothing, I'm not putting anything on you. This is what I felt and I want to be open with you about why I felt the way I felt.

And then ideally the partner says, okay, I hear you. I can see why you would feel, I didn't see that at the time. I can see why you would feel that. My story isn't exactly the same. Let me tell you what I was feeling. And then the partner goes, okay. And then you both feel seen. But just so you know, had I not come up here

and got on this Zoom or this podcast, We would have never known. I would have never in a million years ever assumed that this fool was scared to screw something up with. Right, but this is the heart of the problem is that then you would have resentment towards Donald for not helping you out. And that's what we're talking about. And it's all this. And then it snowballs into this resentment and then anger

and then he gets pissed that I'm just not responsive to him at all. And then the whole house is walking on eggshells because dad slash Donald's in a bad mood. Yes. Exactly. So the beautiful thing about this conversation right now is that you're learning about something about each other.

And you're learning about like certain fears and everyone, we all have a blueprint and of how the world should be. We all have a parental blueprint. So if we become parents, we have these beliefs and this story about what's gonna make us a good father or a good mother, like we come into relationships with this. And so the more that we can have these kinds of conversations about like, what does this mean to you? What are your fears around it?

Like, what's your biggest fear about being a dad? And have these kinds of conversations. So they're not necessarily, they don't always have to be conversations where you're repairing. They're conversations that create more emotional intimacy. And the whole point of a relationship is to deepen emotional intimacy between you and another human being, which helps you grow,

which helps you feel more connected, what helps you feel more seen, because anyone can have sex. Anyone can have superficial relationships, but a relationship, a committed relationship, this is really what it's all about. And that's why I'm so passionate about, you know, don't commit to the person

who you can't do this with. And also you have to be willing to step outside your comfort zone to really open yourself up and who you can't do this with. And also you have to be willing to step outside your comfort zone to really open yourself up because you can't just wait for the other person to do it to give you that invitation. You really have to see right away. This is, these are the building blocks of a relationship.

Well, and also early on in courtship and dating, you need to, I see now, it's so important to say, are you down for this kind of relationship? If you're not interested in being overly communicative and in working on it, on this level, or if we need it in couples therapy, whatever it is, reading a book or two, or if you're not interested in having that kind of digging deep with me,

then you're probably not the one for me because this is the kind of thing I want to have. Yes, absolutely. As long as you make it safe for the other person to be able to open up to you. Yeah, I feel like we did all of that stuff before we got married and in the early stages of marriage. I think as the kids get older, I think that's where...

Well there's two of us. There's two B's in the house and there's two Donald's in the house. So it's very like... And also stage of life matters. So it's the stage of life of your relationship. It's the stage of life where you are in your personal life, hormonally. It's the stage of life, of course, of your kids. Parenting a five-year-old is not the same thing as parenting a 12-year-old. Yeah. And it's not the same thing as parenting an 18-year-old or a 20-year-old. All right. Casey, we're going to kick you out now.

This was amazing. Thank you. Glad we could help. I'm just saying, man, we're lucky that we do a podcast like this, Zach. This has helped out a lot. The phase-ons get free therapy. It's amazing. I'm just saying, man, we're lucky that we do a podcast like this, Zach. This has helped out a lot. I know. The phase-on skip free therapy, it's amazing. We can do it. We can show it in all of a sudden.

All right. We can add another five years. I hope you guys have really good sex tonight, okay? Yeah, seriously. You should. You can thank me and Jillian. Nice to meet you. Thank you, Zach.

Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, Jillian. Jillian, thank you. I think we just saved their marriage. And when we come back- Oh, hold on now. Hold on. Nice to meet you, Jillian. Jillian, thank you. I think we just saved their marriage. And when we come back, we- Oh, hold on now.

Hold on now. I'm just doing a bit. I want to talk more about dating when we're back with Jillian because her book and her things she posts and says on Instagram, I think are so helpful for dating. So I'll be right back after these words. Hi, I'm Arturo Castro. And I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City, and Narcos, and Roadhouse, and so many commercials about back pain.

And now, I'm starting a podcast because honestly guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get Ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week, I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians to tell them a buckwild tale from across history and time. People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, and Zoe Chow. Titanic. Charles Manson. Alcatraz. Asada Shakur. The sketchy guy named Steve. It's giving funny true crime. I love storytelling and I love you, so I can't wait. Listen and subscribe to Greatest Escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Something about Mary Poppins? Something about Mary Poppins. Exactly. Oh man, this is fun. I'm AJ Jacobs and I am an author and a journalist and I tend to get obsessed with stuff. And my current obsession is puzzles. And that has given birth to my podcast, The Puzzler.

Dressing. Dressing. Oh, French dressing. Exactly. Oh, that was good. Now you can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. I thought to myself, I bet I know what this is. And now I definitely know what this is.

This is so weird. This is fun. Let's try this one. Our brand new season features special guests like Chuck Bryant, Mayim Bialik, Julie Bowen, Sam Sanders, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, and lots more. Listen to The Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's awful. And I should have seen it coming. Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here? Go slower.

I met Santi at a luau party in October. I'm Santi. Damien. Oh, it was bizarre. The guy just disappeared one day. Santi has been missing ever since. The hookup. What is that?

I'm solving a mystery through sex and haven't made a private dick joke until now? Like, no matter how hard I try, all roads lead to... The hookup. You think it's causing people to turn aggro? I'm gonna rip your arms off and use them to- Yeah, that's a word for it.

This is such terrible representation, I'm so sorry. Poppers? These aren't just any poppers. Mama always used to say, God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. No. My psychiatrist didn't laugh at that one either. ["The Hook Up Theme Song"] Listen to The Hook Up, starting February 14th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. John Stewart is back at The Daily Show and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors.

And with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I noticed one of the chapters of your books, or I don't know if they're chapters or you call them truths. Yes. Lust is not the same thing as love. That is correct.

That is absolutely correct. No, I know, but I want to tease that out a bit because I think that many of us get so entranced with someone and it's just about the exciting titillation of being attracted to them sexually. Yes. And then that ends or peters out a bit and then you're left with something that doesn't have a good foundation because it was just sexual attraction, right? Yes. A lot of people confuse the two. When we first meet someone and there's an attraction

there and there's... And when we're really excited about someone in the beginning, it's not just sexual. Usually when we get very excited about someone, there's different levels of chemistry. It's not just sexual. We're also, we feel like, we feel like there's an intellectual connection too. Like to get excited about someone truly beyond, oh, I want to sleep with them. You have to feel connected to them. And the thing is, when we feel that excitement in the beginning, they awaken something inside of us, which is basically aliveness. And if that sense of novelty and adventure and aliveness has been dormant for a long time, and then we meet someone and they awaken that in us,

it's a really fun, beautiful thing, but we think, oh, they are the reason why I'm happy. And actually that's not true. and why I'm happy. And actually that's not true. That you will, it's very easy to get tricked into believing that your happiness rests in the hands of this other person when you are in lust because everything is so exciting. But love is, love is trust. Love is safety. And love can, it can also be passion and all of these things, but love is something that you build with someone. And love, like real love is, you know, when we're in the lust phase and a lot of people get addicted to that, it's very immature because basically it's saying, I'm in love, I'm in love, I put that in big

air quotes, with my projected fantasy of who I believe or what I want a woman to be or what I want a man to be. And so, and then as soon as things get more real, there's emotional intimacy, we're seeing each other's shortcomings and depth and nuance. A lot of people will say, you're not perfect. I don't want anything. I'll pull away. Yeah. Right? Do you think that's even worse these days with the apps and everything? Everyone's just

like, all right, next. Absolutely. I think that's me personally. Yeah, I think it definitely plays a role. I think that it's very easy to forget each other's humanity in all this. And I think a lot of things play a role. I think romanticism plays a role. I think movie, film and television, literature and art can play a role of what love is or isn't.

You know, it's like the romantic comedy shows you all the craziness in the beginning of getting the person or being rescued by the person. But they don't show you like a urine, right? There's no examples of that. And love to me is what is, is a choice. Love is something that, you know, lust is easy. It's something that we just feel and almost have no control over. But love is something that is very much a verb and it's something that you give. It's not just something that you receive.

And a lot of people say, well, I love this person. No, you didn't. You felt like crazy attracted to them. You didn't even know them. Yeah. You make up a whole story of who they are even before you get to know who they are. And then you get addicted to that story of who they are.

Right. And you're like, I think, especially when you're single and you kind of get excited about someone, your one's brain can all of a sudden just like quickly write a script that they're the most amazing person and they're all these things. And then little by little, you're like,

oh, all of that, I made up myself. Yeah. None of that's real. And now I'm disappointed because who they truly are doesn't align with what I made up. There's only one movie, I'm sorry to cut you all off, there's only one movie that I really believe at the end of the day, when it ends, that they were happily ever after. And that's when Harry met Sally.

But that's just me. Okay. Well, you know, yeah. Well, because they were friends for so long beforehand. And that's why. And there was nothing but great communication between the two of them. And for so long. And friendship. And genuine friendship.

And genuine friendship. They found communication before lust, which is interesting. Yes, they found friendship before lust. Yeah. Like I say this all the time, my best friend is my wife. I thought I was your best friend. Well, you are. You are my best friend, but you know, she trumps you.

But that's just because. Friendship is very important for long-term relationship. But it'll always be a balance of friendship and passion and keeping the passion alive. But I will say that a relationship, it's very hard to make a relationship last over the long term if there isn't friendship there. Yeah.

I agree 100%. And also willingness to evolve, right? Because we're all growing and changing and you have to be willing to... Willing to evolve and also willingness to accept the other's evolution and their pace and to... You know, everything's a balance. If you grow too quickly, that can be very destabilizing for a relationship. If you're not growing at all, then you can get very bored and boredom is not good for a relationship.

Boredom is the worst thing for, I think if you, if you don't evolve. At all, try new things or do fun things together. Yeah. What are you, what are you doing? You know what I mean? Like, all right, I have another do fun things together. Oh my gosh. What are you doing? You know what I mean? Yeah. I have another truth I want to-

Okay, let me just finish. My business manager just recently said to us, you know, you guys are spending money the wrong way. You know, go make memories and stuff like that. You guys are spending money on food and eating and stuff like that. Go out there and enjoy your, enjoy the kids, enjoy, you know, time with each other. And that really hit me hard.

It was like, holy shit, you're absolutely right. I'm sitting here worried about not spending this money and not, you know, losing this money. But what I really need to be worried about is creating memories and creating and evolving and creating experiences. Positive experiences. Exactly, positive experiences with my family.

And I wasn't doing that and we weren't doing that. Couples need dopamine enhancing experiences together, especially if they've been together for a long time. They need to do things that gets the cortisol going and triggers the dopamine, the excitement. Because there's two aspects to a relationship. There's the serotonin aspect, which is you're nesting together. And some couples lean more towards that.

Like there's nesting, there's the friendship, there's the coziness, but then there's the dopamine, which is like, we need to have some new experiences, we need to have some fun, we need to have a little novelty. And so I think you were always sort of straddling that line between those two things. You posted a quote on your Instagram. I wanted to just mention,

to love someone long-term is to attend a thousand funerals of the people they used to be. Not my quote, that's Heidi Pree, but yes, I did post it. I know it's not your quote, but it's beautiful. And I think it's very, it's kind of what we're talking about, about being long for the ride of the evolution. Yes, it's beautiful and I think it's very, it's kind of what we're talking about, about being long for the ride of the evolution. Yes, it's very true. I mean, if you think of a long-term relationship, there's going to be, you're going to have many relationships within one relationship. And unfortunately,

there's just not a lot of examples of enduring love. We have a lot of examples of falling in love, enduring love. We have a lot of examples of falling in love, a lot of examples, like I said, in art, but we don't have a lot of examples of enduring love. And there is a tremendous opportunity to grow spiritually. I mean, look, just even the conversation that we had today, the two of you recognizing, oh, it's the story in my head, like that can yield now a conversation between the two of you that has the potential to deepen your bond, to deepen your friendship, to deepen your love.

Yeah, Jillian and I can counsel you together if you want, we're very expensive. Exactly. You know, what about falling in and out of love, but then back in love again? Does that exist in this whole conversation? In long-term relationships, what causes people to fall out of love is the loss of passion, right? It's like, what's the difference between loving someone and being in love with them? Is passion, is feeling passionate towards them.

And yes, you can restore passion in a long-term relationship. And so if you feel like you're falling, if people feel like they're falling out of love, typically what that means is there's a little boredom that's set in and they need a little bit of dopamine activities and they have to do some exciting things together. Maybe one or both of them need to grow individually or together. But there's certainly a way to revive that if their foundation is strong enough between

two people. What if it's not a long-term relationship? What if it's a relationship that happened for like, let's say a year, then they break up and then- What if it's your side piece? Is that what you're asking? No, no, I'm not saying it's your side piece. I'm saying what if it's-

I'm just kidding. What if someone were to have the side piece and the side piece relationship isn't going that well, but you want to keep it going, hypothetically? No, I'm sincere about this. Is there a conversation where, because I've seen it happen before, where somebody, they were together, they broke up, they got back together,

and now their bond is stronger than it's ever been. You know what I mean? And I'm not one that believes in going backwards, but I've seen it. It can happen. It can happen if both people take 100% responsibility for their experience and they wanna go, they wanna do 2.0 of their relationship and make it better.

I mean, lots of things are possible for sure. Yeah, what's your advice on people who are listening and might be thinking like, oh, should I go back? Did I miss that person? Should I try and repair? Or do you think that that usually ends poorly? It really just depends. I mean, more times than not, the answer is no, you shouldn't go back. But there are instances where people say, you know, I did a lot of self-reflecting and I realize where, how I contributed to whatever didn't work. And I really want to give this another go.

And, and, and, but you just have to be able to take full responsibility. Often, I don't really think you should go back to the person who completely betrayed you and broke your heart. I don't think you should go back to the person who mistreats you. And by mistreatment, I mean manipulation, obviously, if there's any violence, but anyone who made you feel less than. And I'm not talking about you had an argument and then you feel a little insecure. I'm talking about you never knew where you stood with someone, you never felt good enough for someone. The person has to be, I mean, outside of,

let's just say for this example, outside of abuse and outside of infidelity, the person has to be willing to work on the thing. They have to be willing to work on the thing. They have to be willing to show up differently. Yes, but I don't believe in giving someone who consistently made you feel not good enough a second chance. I heard that.

Well, that's a great, and now it's another, Not everyone would agree with me on that, but. No, I think most people, I think most people, I mean, I agree with that. How about that? I'm not talking about one argument where you didn't feel good enough for a situation. I'm talking about you never felt good enough

for this person. Yeah, well, it leads to another Julian Turecki quote that I like, that I wanted to say. Never make your life harder by trying to convince someone to stay in your life. If someone believes their happiness is somewhere else, don't hold them back from finding it. Because if they stay, you need it to be because they want to. You deserve and need to be chosen every day.

Yes. One of the most profound lessons I ever learned about love and relationships is that you cannot convince someone to love you or to choose you or to stay. That is the law of the land. You just cannot. And so- But a lot of people listening are going, but what if I-

Yeah, exactly. No, you really can't. There's a difference between fighting for your relationship and fighting to be enough for someone. And you need to know the difference. And you just look, letting go is messy, it's complicated, it's hard, it's heartbreaking, but it's better to adopt the mentality that if someone thinks that their happiness is somewhere else other than with you, don't stand in the way of them finding that

happiness because trying to convince them to love you or that they're going to be happy with you, it is never going to work. It's going to work against you in every way. You lose all your power if you're being somebody else that's not you. You lose all your power. Exactly. And you can't make someone love you or choose you. We have free will for a reason. And you only want to be in a relationship

with someone who chooses to be there. That's the only way. It doesn't have a chance to work otherwise. I'm sure there's people listening are like, yeah, but if I can just convince them by being this or being that. Question yourself, never change yourself. It's one thing, look, we all have certain habits that we need to work on.

If we're in a relationship, we may have certain habits like, hey, that's maybe something that you need to work on, but you should never change who you are you are who you are. I, you know you are who you are And I think there's so much stressful trying to be somebody else, you know, there's so much there's so much anxiety There's so much anxiety and playing a character in a relationship. Yeah, but we come from a world We're playing characters is like, you know, we live in the la la land, you know what I mean? Like

You know, we're all We all play a character in order to keep a job, in order to... Right, but that's not healthy to be in a relationship. You are, because I've seen it up close, 100% authentically yourself with your partner. Absolutely. And she is 100% her.

Yeah, and you guys may have your issues, like all human beings have their issues, but you're not sitting there going, I'm being inauthentic. You are proudly 100% yourself with her and she chooses it and the same thing and vice versa. And I think what Jillian is saying is like, you be careful to not try and convince someone or be something you're not because how the fuck can you keep that up? That's so stressful to like pretend you're somebody that isn't who you truly are.

And don't you want to ideally find someone who's so in love with who you truly are? I mean, isn't that the ideal? Yeah. That is the ideal. People, a relationship doesn't work unless people accept one another. And that's just, it's just the bottom line. Sometimes it's so hard though,

because you're just so in love and you can love someone so much, but also be like, gosh, I don't know that we're compatible, but there's still so much love there. Yeah, it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. And I think that, you know, that's why love is not enough. You have to agree on being in alignment on what a life well lived is. You have to have some goals that you share. You have to want, oh, I hear your little puppy. That's my little rescue puppy.

Oh, not little, my 80 pound rescue puppy. I like that quote, love is not enough. That could be a good title for your second book. Because I think a lot of people, including myself, are like, but I love her. And it's like, okay, but that's not enough. Dude, this is what you want and what you need? A line. Yes, yes.

And is it love? You know, it's, love is, love is definitely not enough. It's important. It's very important. But, and that's why people need to clarify what it is that they really want, what kind of relationship that they really want. And it's very hard to say goodbye to someone you love because it's just not working.

Yeah, that's fucking really hard. Can relationship just be, can it still work as just a friendship though? You know what I mean? You Like after you're in love? Yeah. You know, like some, some, some relationships never die. They just change form and they transition into friendship because their relationship was already just friendship. You know, they lost all the passion.

Very difficult. You can't have, you can't have complicated feelings towards each other and then be like, okay, we're going to be friends. Typically, you need some distance. And also when they start dating other people, it's like, oh wow. Yeah, it becomes really complicated. It can become very complicated. Like I don't think I'm friends with anybody I dated. And that's a sad thing to say, but it's also a realistic thing to say, you know what I mean? And it's because it's really weird to be in such a,

forever how long you're in the space for, but you're in a trust, you're in a trusting space, you're in a, you know what I mean, for a year, six months, two years, you break up, and then all of a sudden you never have a conversation with that person ever again. And if you do- It's wild.

It's fucking nuts. And it's like, you don't even recognize them. You might not even recognize their name if somebody were to say it to you. You know what I mean? Like it's crazy. So I wanna give you the last, we'll let Jillian go, but I want to give her one last Jillian quote

from your Instagram I really liked was, stop romanticizing the person who broke your heart. Yes. When we break up with someone- Joelle's nodding. I feel like she- Joelle took the biggest nod. Joelle may have said preach. I heard my heart a little bit. I was like Joelle's nodding. I feel like she, Joelle may have said, Joelle may have said preach.

I heard my heart a little bit. I was like, oh, I recognize the feeling. Oh gosh. But I think everyone can relate to that, especially after a little time passes, right? And then, but, oh, sorry, you go. Yeah, we just tend to make out the person to be much, much more special than they actually are.

And that's not to put them down, but we tend to remember the highlight reel instead of... These are like the documentary. I remember someone, a therapist by the name of John Kim saying that. And then we think, oh, they're the one, they're perfect. I love them. It's like, really? Or are you just attached and heartbroken, which is a completely normal thing for you to experience. But we, I mean, I see it all the time.

Someone treats you in such a way that's actually not loving, or you really didn't get along, or like you really were incompatible, or this person had real, true, serious character defects, but you're heartbroken, so you tend to romanticize them and think, I can't live without this person, this person is amazing, and it's all the mind playing a major trick on you.

Yeah, because it felt, because you're lonesome and you're, and you're like you said, you're only thinking of the highlight reel. You're not thinking of all the other shit. But the highlight reel is dope, man. Let's keep it 100. Yeah. Oh, yeah, but the- Oh, you guys remember fucking Family Ties did it better. What did you think I would do at this?

And he's going through the highlight reel of him and the girl and all the things they went through. And you know what I mean? The highlight reel is fire. The documentary sucks. The highlight reel will really mess with your head because it's not accurate. It's not accurate. It's like a great movie trailer for a shitty movie.

That's exactly what it is. Exactly. That's exactly what it is. Jillian, that's your third book. That's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is. Exactly is. Jillian, that's your third book. That's your third book. In a world. It's really true. I used to go to the movies

and just like want to watch the trailer. So there you go. Yeah. Well, everybody please check out, It Begins With You, Jillian Turecki's awesome book. And also make sure to follow her on Instagram. I just love that. I love all the things you post.

Just like Joelle nodded, I find myself going, mm-hmm, when I read your quotes. And it's just really helpful if you're dating, if you're working on relationship, not just romantic relationships in your, like we learned earlier with your children, with your friends. I just think everything you're putting out there

is really, really good for the world. So thank you for coming on. You're very, what's the word I'm looking for? You give a lot on your Instagram, the things that you say, you give a lot actually to your followers and I really appreciate that as one of your followers. I really do appreciate that.

Thank you so much. That means a lot to me. Thank you for that. Seriously. Well, Donald, I'm going to use some of these tools for our relationship. Exactly. I mean, because I've been hurt by you before and vice versa, and I haven't communicated well. And I think it would have, I would have benefited if I had the courage to.

I feel like you're so full of shit right now, my friend. I'm gonna keep it 100 with you. Out of everybody I know, the people that you're very communicative with are your friends. There's definitely times we've gotten in arguments and I just go, fuck it, I'm just not gonna talk to them and I'll wait till I'm not pissed off anymore. Where we could have benefited from-

There's some value to that though. No, I know, but I could have benefited from cooling off and then being like, hey, can we have a chat about something that's pissed me off? Or letting it go if you could let it go. Yeah, but I don't want to let, in the spirit of what we're talking about, let too many things go because then you go to resentment.

Yeah, absolutely. No, no, no, if you let it go, it has to be a genuine letting go he'll hit me up like dude you don't do nothing for the podcast you need to fucking start doing more and I'm like wait a second I think I do a lot and like no bro I need you to do way more like you're very that's me being communicative that's good yeah I love as opposed to being resentful like this motherfucker doesn't do shit. Those are funny.

Hi, I'm Arturo Castro, and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse and so many commercials about back pain. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly, guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get Ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week, I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians to tell them a buckwild tale from across history and time. People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, and Zoe Chao.

Titanic. Charles Manson. Alcatraz. Sarah Shacor. The sketchy guy named Steve. It's giving funny true crime. I love storytelling and I love you, so I can't wait. Listen and subscribe to Greatest Escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Something about Mary Poppins? Something about Mary Poppins. Exactly. Oh man, this is fun. I'm AJ Jacobs and I am an author and a journalist and I tend to get obsessed with stuff. And my current obsession is puzzles. And that has given birth to my podcast, The Puzzler. Dressing. Dressing.

French dressing. Exactly. Ha ha ha ha. Ohressing. Dressing. Oh, French dressing. Exactly. Oh, that's good. Now you can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. I thought to myself, I bet I know what this is. And now I definitely know what this is. This is so weird. This is fun.

Let's try this one. Our brand new season features special guests like Chuck Bryant, Mayim Bialik, Julie Bowen, Sam Sanders, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, and lots more. Listen to The Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's awful, and I should have seen it coming. That's awful, and I should have seen it coming. Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here? Go slower?

I met Santi at a luau party in October. I'm Santi. Damien. Oh, it was bizarre. The guy just disappeared one day. Santi has been missing ever since. The hookup. What is that?

I'm solving a mystery through sex and haven't made a private dick joke until now? Like, no matter how hard I try, all roads lead to... The hookup, you think it's causing people to turn aggro? I'm gonna rip your arms off and use them to... Yeah, that's a word for it. This is such terrible representation, I'm so sorry. Poppers?

These aren't just any poppers. Mama always used to say, God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. No, my psychiatrist didn't laugh at that one either. Listen to The Hook Up, starting February 14th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Catch Jon Stewart back in action on The Daily Show and in your ears with The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. From his hilarious satirical takes on today's politics and entertainment, to the unique voices of correspondents and contributors, it's your perfect companion to stay on top of what's happening now. Plus, you'll get special content just for podcast listeners, like in-depth interviews

and a roundup of the week's top headlines. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I wanted to tell you, Donald, did Timothy Chalamet live in your building? I don't recall him. Because I saw him on a talk show, just a clip. Did you see that clip? Yeah, he grew up in Manhattan Plaza. There were a bunch of people that lived in Manhattan Plaza after I left. I left in 94 or 95.

Well, he's a lot younger than us, but then also the actor, what's his name from Sing Sing? Yeah, I don't know. I didn't know him either. Common Domingo. But he only lived there for a little bit. I don't think he lived there for very long. They were on that famous English talk show.

What's his name, Joelle? Oh, I love Billy Johnson. I've been on it. I don't know, I forgot. But they were talking about Manhattan Plaza and I thought of you because I knew you grew up there. Yeah, you know, when I was there, there were other people that were, you know, John Carlos Esposito is one of my mentors and I, you know, used to watch him play basketball when I was

a little kid. A lot of people came. Graham Norton, sorry, Graham Norton. Philip Seymour Hoffman was a was a was a camp counselor of mine like the the list of people that came through that building is incredible and so the fact that Timothy was there Timothee however you say he the fact that he was there, it doesn't surprise me because a lot of creatives have come out of that building.

Yeah, and your mom still live there? She does. My nephew, I asked him, I was like, did you know this guy about Timothée? And he, Timothée. Why do you keep him a weird name? Timothée, Timothée. That's how we'd be saying it in the household. Timothée? We love this boy. Timothy, why do you have to give him a weird name? Timothy, Timothy. That's how we'd be saying it in the household,

in our household. Timothy? We love this boy. I'm gonna keep it 100. You love Timothy? Oh, who doesn't love some Timothy? If you don't love some Timothy, there's something wrong. That boy is very, very talented.

Yeah, he's very talented. Very, very charismatic. And very knowledgeable on sports too. So, you know, I'm a huge fan of his. Who's your pick for the Super Bowl? This'll probably be very old, but when it comes out, but who's your pick for the Super Bowl? I think Kansas City wins their third Super Bowl in a row.

I think it's coming out of the AFC this year. Joelle, what do you think? I have no thoughts on the Super Bowl, except I can't wait for this halftime show. Let's go, Kendrick. I'm very excited. Okay. Well, let's go.

They not like us. They not like us. Wouldn't it be hilarious if he brought Drake out though? There's no way he's bringing Drake out. No, that's gonna happen. No. Well, that was a great conversation, Donald. I learned a lot.

I hope you did. I did, you know? And I think my wife learned a lot too, which is great. We learned a lot about each other, which is great. And every time Jillian's on the show, I feel like we learned something not only about ourselves, but about, it isn't about who we want to be, it's who we are, you know what I mean?

You can front and pretend and try to be something you're not, but you're only gonna fail at the end. It's when you are comfortable with who you are, and your spouse or your person is comfortable with who they are, and you both can accept that. It just makes for such a better relationship. Yeah, and have the courage to be vulnerable and say what you're feeling without accusing the other person.

That's one of the things I think that's really important. Absolutely. I believe in love for you still, bro. I feel like it's gonna happen. I have a dog now, I'm fine, I don't need love. I hope you don't get dog flu. I got, Joelle and I are both, well, I don, well, I don't know, but, uh, we're both, um, we're both at single and in love with our pities. So that's all we need. Don't

be grossed out. All right. On that note, we love you guys. Thanks for tuning in. Five, six, seven, eight. About a show we made About a bunch of docs and nurses And a janitor who loved the hate I said, here's the stories That we all should know So gather round to hear our Gather round to hear our scrubs rewind show with Zack and Dono Hi, I'm Arturo Castro and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly, guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough.

Get Ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week, I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians people like Ed Helms, Diane Guer Guerrero and Joseph Gordon-Levitt I love storytelling and I love you So I can't wait listen and subscribe to greatest escapes on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts What would you do if mysterious drones appeared over your hometown I Started asking questions. What do you remember

happening on that night of December 16th? It actually rotated around our house looking as if it was peering in each window of our home. I'm Gabe Lenners from Imagine, I Heart Podcasts and Lenners Entertainment. Listen to Obscurum, Invasion of the Drones, wherever you get your favorite podcasts. What if you ask two different people the same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Minnie Driver, and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast. And now, Minnie Questions is returning for another season.

We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions, including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe, and Cord Jefferson. Listen to Mini Questions on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. Hey, man. What are you into? I have the hookup. The hookup? The hookup for what? limitless answers. The hookup? The hookup for what? I'm solving a mystery through sex and haven't made a private dick joke until now? Poppers? Why are there so many poppers?

All roads lead to... The hookup? You think it's causing people to turn aggro? I'm gonna rip your arms off and use them to... Yeah, that's a word for it. Listen to The Hookup, starting February 14th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.