Fake Doctors, Real Friends with Zach and Donald - Jon Cryer, Donald's Real Best Friend

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

Jon Cryer's been a star since he was a teenager, but there were a few years in the middle when he wasn't sure if anyone cared about him as a performer. But he made his own way, throwing himself into his passion and waiting for the right deal. The hilarious actor talks to Zach and Donald about his varied love for all things sci-fi, his early Broadway performance following Matthew Broderick, and what it was like becoming a teen sensation overnight. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Back in 96, Atlanta was booming with excitement around hosting the Centennial Olympic Games. And then, a deranged zealot willing to kill for a cause lit a fuse that would change my life and so many others forever. Rippling out for generations. Listen to Flashpoint on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2020, in a small California mountain town, five women disappeared. I found out what happened to all of them, except one. A woman known as Deah, whose estate is worth millions of dollars. I'm Lucy Sheriff.

Over the past four years, I've spoken with DEAR's family and friends, and I've discovered that everyone has a different version of events. Hear the story on Where's DEAR? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. This could be the craziest podcast pairing ever. The governor of California, Gavin Newsom, podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Podcast by podcast. You talking about? Listen to Poli-ticken with Gavin Newsom, Marshawn Lynch, and Doug Hendrickson on America's

number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Poli-ticken and start listening. Is everybody recording? And my question, as Donald very correctly picked up was, is everybody recording? Yes. Is everyone recording? Wait, hold up. Let me muck bang.

We don't want your muck bang. Don't muck bang. The people don't like it. Yeah, the people don't like muck bang. We don't want your muck bang. Don't muck bang, the people don't like it. Yeah, the people don't like muck bang. It's called misophonia, they hate it. Yeah, people have misophonia. You know what they do like this. What you trying to get into a day of shroom? What you trying to do?

I got out. You got out? I went outside. Oh, very nice. Donald left his home and came to an epic Christa's birthday party. Oh The photos looked great. It's probably one of the best parties. I've been to in my life other than my wedding. Yeah Christa's favorite band is the talking heads and and they had a talking heads cover band and

I mean she also loves the police. They played police songs. And then Charlotte got up and sang Roxanne by the police. And Andrew Watt was just- You're burying the lead. You're burying the fucking lead. Andrew Watt? And Will Farrell playing drums, bro.

Chad Smith. Chad Smith on drums, not Will Farrell. No that was Will Farrell playing drums dude, I couldn't believe it. Yo did you guys know that Will Farrell could play drums like that? You know that they did a bit on Jimmy Fallon about this, Dalton? I know. It was so funny and I thought that Will Farrell could actually play until I was clued in that Questlove was playing for him and he was just faking the shit out of it really well. Chad Smith was playing drums and he was incredible

and Andrew Watt, who's just the sickest guitarist I've ever seen in real life. Well, we had one of the sickest drummers in creation and one of the sickest guitarists in creation. Yeah, I've never seen anything like it. Donald, it was funny because I remember Donald on the podcast being like, I know Andrew's like a huge producer, but you see a really good guitarist cut to Donald standing literally three feet from Andrew.

Less. Less. Just like- I was trying to fuck his guitar while he was playing it. That's how good this motherfucker was. You know how the rock stars be jumping up and they be real close to each other, huh? I get it now, man. That fucking music bounces off that fucking shit onto you

and you're like, yeah! You know how people in the band, like rock stars, they get really close to each other and they play their instruments really close to each other. Joelle, Daniel. I'm telling you this story, Donald knows it. Well, Donald was kind of doing that without an instrument with Andrew Watt.

Oh my God. He was kind of working his way up as close to Andrew as possible as though he was playing like bass or something, but he had no instrument. No instrument whatsoever. This motherfucker was licking. What is the word that they use?

Like he was... What do you call it, Daniel, when someone's doing solo riffs insanity on the guitar? Ripping it. Just soloing, shredding. Shredding, shredding. Oh yes. He was shredding, Donald. In terms of rock and roll,

the motherfucker was shredding. Effortlessly. Like I would take a sip of a glass of water. He was shredding this guitar like I've never seen a person do. Well, he's one of that, listen, I'm gonna say this. Go ahead, say it. Prince, don't be shy. Andrew Watt are the two up close guitarists that I've seen in my life.

Where I've been like, holy shit, up close like that. Yeah. I think he's on that level. Well, I think Prince is the best ever to do it. I'm sorry, bro. No, no, I'm not saying he's Prince, but I think that, I think if you ask people amongst the best rock guitarists currently, I think he's on the list.

Easily, easily. I've never seen anything like it in my life. I wish I could do anything that well. Right? If I was, if I could act that well. I don't think I act that well. I don't, I know I don't act that well. Shit. Fuck. I know I don't act that well. No, I think I'm a really good actor. And I think I really, I think I got some skills and I think I'm a funny, I think I'm a funny actor, but I don't think that I'm that good. No. He's like Joaquin Phoenix of actors on the guitar.

Leo for me. He's Leo. He's a Leo Joaquin Phoenix guitarist. He's Leo. You're as good as Leo, Donald. Hell no, bro. Leo's the best in my eyes, bro. We got to hang with Harrison.

He was funny. We got to- The other best, the best action hero in my eyes. All the shrinking cast was there. That was cool. I'm all right now. You know what I mean? You were bopping your head next to Harrison.

I looked over and Donald was next to Harrison, both bopping their heads to the music. I was like, this guy's living his dream. I'm all right now, bro. I'm all right. I'm not, I couldn't hang out with Harrison Ford and not fucking shit myself. Yeah, you're getting used to it.

I mean, the first time there was a little chart of a pebble of poop. The first time you met him, you sharted? A little bit in my pants. It was the, oh shit, keep it together. But the other night you didn't shart. The other night I was, I kept it together. And you held it together too, booze-wise.

You came in a little hot and I was a little worried, but then you hit the brakes. Yeah, you know, I know my limit now. It's not like it used to be where I could drink and just be like, I'm gonna just go lie down. When I get drunk now, I get sick. So, see you later to that.

Well, because you're so, you don't go out very much at all. And so I, when you first came in, you were like throwing back drinks and I was like, Ruh-Ruh. But then you like- I had two drinks the whole night, bro. No, well, I just watched you bang, slam two right away. And I was like, Ruh-Rh, you still have the power walk home. No, and then that was it.

And then after that it was little tiny sips of. Yeah, then you did good. Yeah. There were some, like at any Puge party, there were people that got shit faced. It was beautiful though, bro. I'm so glad that I'm not them. Like, if we've all been there,

well at least I can say it, I know Donald and I have. It's so, I'm so grateful to the universe when it's like the next day and everyone's telling the crazy stories about who is the most hammered and the crazy shit they were saying, that it's not me. Yeah, and they're not saying, and then you. Yeah, because I've been there and I don't do that anymore.

And I really hated that part of my life. But I'm so happy with that. It's not that I hate it. It's not that I hate it. And I really hated that part of my life. But I'm so happy with that. It's not that I hate it. It's not that I hate it. And it's not that I'm ashamed of it. I have a lot of shame. No, well, no, it's not shame. You don't have shame from when you said stupid shit

cause you were drunk? I do. No, because it's, you know, everybody said stupid shit in when they're not drunk too. Look, they're a bunch of sober motherfuckers talking and they say some of the dumbest shit I've ever heard in my life. But I'm not ashamed of it.

It's the feeling of... I beat my body so bad at such a young age that, you know, I'm sure it'll catch up to me eventually, but I beat my body so bad at a young age, man. In my 20s, doing dumb shit, drinking. I still smoke weed, but drinking heavily every night, going to work. Yeah, well. I don't think my body's gonna appreciate it in my 60s.

How about that? By the way, the party was so fun, and then I woke up the next day, and I was tired, but I didn't feel horrible. So I was so proud of myself that I didn't drink like some people were drinking. You didn't feel a little dehydrated? No, I did.

I had a little wine, but I waited. My trick was like, I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna let all these motherfuckers that are pounding tequila fucking get drunk. I'm not gonna have anything, I was drinking like water. I think I had an espresso. An espresso, wow. Then around like 1130 when the band started rocking out,

I had like a glass of white wine or two. That was perfect. And that was a chill, and that was it? Yeah, and so I was up late, because I went back to Andrew's and sat around the fire pit, and we had some laughs, but I definitely didn't do what I used to do, which was fucking be one of those people

that just drinks way too much, the next day hates myself, the next day is embarrassed about some stupid shit I said. I don't do that anymore. No, you did very well, it was very nice to see. Very excited about our guest today, it's Donald, right? It is I can't believe we got him. Yeah, he is a really a comedy icon legend genius, and he's a very very very funny man and

We we actually have a still weird connection and that we both went to the same Theater camp that started us both off, which I'm excited to talk to him about, a place called Stage Door Manor. They made movies about that place, bro. They have, the theater camp movie that Ben Platt recently made was inspired by that. But then there was one before called The Camp.

Yeah, there was one with Anna Kendrick when she was a little kid, or at least when she was very young. There's been a couple, but none have done it justice It was a very special place. Let's let let's count in and welcome in John Cryer A man who loved to hate, I said, he's got stories that we all should know So gather round to hear our, gather round to hear our Sprats Rewatch show with Zach and Dono Mm-hmm. Hey!

Shalom! Shalom! Woo-hoo-hoo! Woo-hoo! Yes! Living legend, John Cryer. That is I. The man, the myth, John the legend.

John, you look like you have a professional set up over there. Well, I am a professional in show business. Yes. And this is what I do. No, it's, well, it's sort of, I got a little light that I put on top of it because, you know, this, I got to work this. Hey. John, we're so glad you're here, man.

We don't often get fancy guests like you, and we're very honored that you're here. You know, you know what? We've had two guests. Let's take it back. We've had two guests. You're our second guest. Our first guest was Billy Dee Williams, and now it's you. All right, bro.

That's true. That's true. He and I get grouped together all the time. Honestly, I'm tired of it. You know, we're, cause we're both so handsome and smooth, and we brought so much to black cinema. Uh, that- John, your contribution to black cinema.

It's, it's, you can't even, you can't even talk about it. Don't even talk about it. You were up for Lando, weren't you? You made for it. That I have never been, not, not, not considered in the slightest for any role in Star Wars universe bothers me to no end.

Well, you're speaking to the right guy, Donald Faison. He agrees with that sentiment. Yes. Man, you and I should have been all over the Star Wars universe bothers me to no end. Well, you're speaking to the right guy, Donald Faison. He agrees with that sentiment. Yes. You and I should have been all over the Star Wars universe, man. It should have been ours. It should have been ours. There's no one that knows it like we know it.

Oh, John, I didn't know you were a mega fan like Donald. I'm not as big as Donald. No, no, no, no, he's not that big. Yeah, no, Donald is on another level. His knowledge of nerddom spans, like he has a very, very vast knowledge of not only Star Wars, DC, Marvel. Like his knowledge is, you know, Star Trek, it's amazing.

Lost in space. Whereas you are, Star Trek. It's amazing. Lost in space. Whereas you are just Star Wars focused mostly. No, I got a decent knowledge of all of that stuff too, but his is pretty amazing. I have breads. You have specificity and I have breads. That's why we're better friends than you and Zack. Don't say it, John.

That's why I failed. John, I don't have many friends. Please don't take the only one I have. That's what I'm, this has all been an effort to take the one friend you have left. On my whole career, leading up to this moment, has just been an effort to hurt you, Zach. Please don't fight over me, guys. You guys, we were very,

I was very bummed to hear about your show going away. I thought it was very funny. You know who was more bummed? Me and Donald. Right. See, cause we're friends, we're closer. I wanted to ask you, John, because you've had

such incredible success with Half Hour Comedy, and I saw that the ratings for that show were so strong. So have you deduced why they didn't pick it up again? I don't really understand why. Well, you'll never know. It's always a little bit of just, you know, they didn't feel like it for whatever reason. But in our case, two things, they got the NBA.

The NBA is coming to NBC, which takes up a lot of time in the schedule. So there's actually a lot less time that they have to fill. But also, we were sort of, you end up competing against the other shows for the half hour slots that they have, and in the end, we were ending up competing against George Lopez, and the Lopez show has been on

for two seasons, and it is produced by NBC for NBC. Oh, that's always a trick if they own it. And our show was produced by Lionsgate for NBC. So they had a lot more incentive to keep the Lopez show on the air than they did for our show. Got it. And that just, you know, that's corporate stuff that happens. The good news about that is that we can try to sell at other places and we and we are you know

it's it's again, it's an incredible long shot and I I love the fans of the show and And I loved the show and so I'm gonna I'm gonna go down in every possible way To that that sounded that came out wrong To get this show back on the air. Everywhere I go. I went to this party. I went to this really dope party with a bunch of executives. With executives. With freaking former executives. With people who are all about TV and all they said, I fucking love your show. Oh my god, you and John together. It's so fucking good. And then I have to say to them, it got canceled. And they're like, what?

Yes, I just had that moment like two days ago. This shit is like killing me, man. It's fucking like- It's a hard business, man. It's a hard business because people outside the business wouldn't know, I mean, even I'm in the business and I didn't know that it came down to like, okay, they have one slot and George Lopez has been on and they own it. And so then bam, you're done.

It's such a, it's cutthroat. Yeah, it's tough. I mean, on some level, I'd really love for my next show to be a streaming show because you don't have to worry about time slots and you don't have to, you know, but again, I'm so happy for the experience. It was a great experience. Loved working with Donald. Donald is, Zach, did you ever just sort of stand back

in awe and just go, Jesus, this guy can do anything? All the time. And in fact, when we make these T-Mobile ads recently, because we haven't done scrubs in a while, but when we're making the T-Mobile ads, I just look at him and I crack up and we're still making shit up as we go and riffing ideas and everything he does makes me giggle.

Yeah, no, it's cool too. And you get the joy of having him, you get the joy of having him in front of a live audience where he really goes crazy because he thrives in front of that crowd, don't you? No, it's just stellar. It's unbelievable. And again, and I'm happy you do that because they love you.

And I'm usually so freaked out about the pages and pages of lines that I'm trying to remember. Oh yeah, you had. Right. Have fun with them, Donald, because I can't pay attention. Dude, now was this by design? Was this what you had asked for? Did you at any point ask? Attention. L-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l- design at all. No, I mean, you remember in the pilot, we had all the stuff that we were saying to the camera and stuff, but that was quick, fun, snappy dialogue.

I don't know why Mike O'Malley was our showrunner on Extended Family. Mike has the, he's Irish in the best possible way. He has that wonderful gift for language and uses it, deploys it. If you've had a phone call with Mike, you've had a really enjoyable half hour, even if it was supposed to be five minutes. He's got a gift for Gab. He does have a gift. And he does that to the characters. And he decided that my character was the one I think who would speak for him as much as possible. So Zach, I don't know how many episodes you saw the show, but there was an episode where I had a three page monologue in a multi-camera sitcom.

I've never seen that in a multi-camera sitcom. Nobody does that. And I gave him shit about it. And he said, dude, you know, they're paying you enough for you to learn this. I was like, okay, fine, I'll do it. Do you miss, I know you started in the theater, right? Yes.

Do you miss, I mean, first of all, we gotta go way back because you and I have a connection to a very special place. I was telling the audience briefly before you came on, you went to Stage Door Manor, right? Yes, yes. How many- Change my life. How many, you went to Stage Door Manor, right? Yes, yes. How many? Change my life. How many, me too. How many summers did you go?

I went for four summers from when I was, when I turned 14 to when I turned 17, which yeah. Stage Door Manor doesn't have a Shakespeare, like didn't you do Shakespeare? No, it's mostly musical theater heavy. There are some kids that do just straight plays, but for the most part, it's focused on musical theater. And John, I don't know what your experience was like,

but I never felt like I belonged anywhere. I felt just not in, I don't know, I couldn't find my people. And that bus led out onto that camp in upstate New York, and it was all about theater people and it changed my life. It was like Utopia. Yeah, no, I had the exact same situation where I sort of grew up backstage. My parents were performers, so I had a lot of familiarity. And when you hang out backstage, it seems like this incredible, joyful, nutty environment.

And you go, how do people work here? This is amazing. You know, when I was like 12, I did a school play or something. And then a friend of mine was going to Stagedoor Manor and I said, there's a camp where they teach this? This is amazing. And I had heard for years,

the bus ride up to Stagedoor Manor is legendary because it's where all the old kids and the noobs just do this crazy musical theater sing-along for about three hours that is so intense that it has become legend. Because if you don't know, if you haven't memorized songs that were cut from dream girls out of town,

then you are toast on this bus ride. Did you take the bus ride? I never took it. My mom drove me. So I, but I just heard about it. I think I took the bus, but didn't know the words, but I was very, I was very shy and I was very shy kid. So at first I was just staring in awe at that. This was that this, this place existed because I just didn't, I was like you, I was like, I can't believe,

my dad used to do community theater and he'd take me in to see Broadway and I just couldn't believe like, people do this for a living? This is a job you can have? I was just, so go on. What was your experience like when you got to camp? Well, you know, I was lucky.

My first day, this kid came up to me who was this really ridiculous human being. He used to do this thing where his name was David Siegel, and he now goes by David Quinn. He had to change his- I know, of course. You know David Quinn. And his big thing was he'd walk around shirtless, and he was a little slightly overweight at the time, so he would push his breasts together and have them sing songs.

And he was beloved for this and for many other reasons. I went up there, because an old friend of mine had told me about the camp and he was there, but he, the other friend was just there because there were so many girls there, because it was, the girls to boys ratio was ridiculous. So if you were- Especially when you factor in being heterosexual,

because there were a lot of young boys who already knew that they were gay. And so if you were straight and you were there, you were kind of like Fonzie. Yes, exactly. You were instant Fonzie. That is the perfect term. You were instant Fonzie.

And so you would go from being the dorkiest goofball at your school to instant Fonzie at Saves the Magic. By the way, this was a place where, this was a place where, forget lacrosse and football, if you could sing and turn a joke, you were the coolest. Yeah. Yeah. No, in fact, if you did the volleyball, I was like, what are you doing here? You know, they wanted nothing to do with you. You know, so it was- I've told this, I think, on the podcast before, when I told my father I was going, and don't get me wrong, he was very supportive of theater, but he read about the camp and he's like,

well, I guess you don't need to bring a mitt. Well, it was funny because we did have, there was a camp next door and that was the camp for weight management next door. And we did have occasionally have softball games with them. And all of our, their campers would play our counselors because none of our actual campers could play softball. It's so embarrassing.

It's so embarrassing. Wow. And we would just get hammered. We would just get absolutely hammered in the softball games, you know, and it was very meatballs if you would call that meaty meatballs. Right. Not meatballs too. Not meatballs too.

Meatballs too. Meatballs too. We've discussed this at length. Not with meathead. Meathead. Not with meathead. Wait, meathead. Not withballs 2. Meatballs 2 had the alien. We've discussed this at length. Not with Meathead. Meathead. Not with Meathead. Wait, Meathead. Yeah, not with Meathead.

John, was it there? Did you get scouted there? How did you segue then into starting to become a professional actor? No, that was still, like your generation of stage Dorians was a little bit later than mine. Yeah. And that was when scouts started coming up.

Scouts didn't really come up yet at that point. No, my generation was the first to do the Our Time Cabaret. Now, just so you understand this to people who are not familiar with theater kids. To our audience who would have no, when I think about what this is, they would have no idea what the hell this is. The Our Time Cabaret was a select group of students.

The elite. The elite. The creme de la creme of the camp. They would teach us some musical theater numbers that were incredibly pretentious for 11-year-olds to be doing. And inappropriate, frankly, some of them. And then we would go perform them at local, at the Pines and at Kutcher's, at all the local borschtbelt hotels.

Resorts, resorts. They had resort hotels with huge theaters. Like Mount Derry Lodge? Like that kind of thing. Exactly, exactly. But yeah, so what was funny about it was, it would be the elite of the camp, Exactly, but yeah. So what was funny about it was, it would be the elite of the camp and you wanted to be a part of the R-Time Cabaret.

It was like making varsity for those of you that do sports. Yes, yes, thank you for translating to normal people. Yeah, it's a normal non-theater gig. So there was all this drama about R-Time Cabaret. You know, everybody was always jockeying to get into it But the funny thing was when you actually did go to perform a most of these resorts had been there for a long time And we're so long past their heyday that the audiences were literally on life support You know, we pulled up at one point to the pines and there's literally an ambulance, you know, giving a clear, in the driveway, as we're pulling up.

Yeah, I remember reading downstage at the end of a number, like out of breath, like, you know, with my arms out wide, and a woman leans in, no one in the audience was under 80. And she goes, you're doing a wonderful job. Yes. Oh God. You're doing a wonderful job. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha you know, again, these hotels were kind of past their prime. Well, and also some of the people were at Bingo. Yes. Yeah. And actually, the first time, it was great because the very first time, we were sort of an experimental

program the first time. You know, the first time they invited us to the Pines, they didn't have us perform in their very large theater. They had us perform in the bar. Now, you have not lived until you're huffing and puffing and putting out your, you know, gotta dance. And it's bar patrons who aren't even facing you. They're facing the bar.

And so every now and then they'll just turn around like. And the outfit by the way was, the outfit was tuxedos. I don't know if it was the new one. No, it was black and white. It was black and white. And like a red cummerbund. Yes. Wait a second.

Hold on. Now, did you have to provide said tuxedos? Yeah, you had to bring a tuxedo. So you had to bring a tuxedo just in case. In the hopes of getting into our time. A lot of kids brought their tuxedo, didn't make varsity and brought it home. Yes.

Yes. So the crazy thing is, I mean, our time has remained. It still exists. They still do it. At Stages of Manner, they still do it. It is still highly sought after. But do they still do it at the Pines? No, the Pines doesn't exist anymore.

Probably Coutchers, I think. Yeah. I think they still do it. Now, there was a documentary made about this camp. I forgot what the doc is called. Joelle, maybe look that up for me. And then, I don't know if you saw Ben Platt's movie, John, which was sort of inspired by.

Yeah, which was great. It was really fun and wonderful. And actually, obviously it has changed since I went there back in 1979 or 80. And obviously the new stuff going on is equally wild and bonkers. No, there was actually another movie called Camp that was done by. Anna Kendrick was in that.

Yes, Anna Kendrick was one of her first movies. But those that camp was actually made by the people who created the camp too though, wasn't it? No, no, it was some people that went there. It was people that went there. Got it. It was shot there. Yeah. There's my favorite moment in the camp movie.

Sorry to interrupt you, Joel is telling me that the name of the dock is actually called Stage Door. Okay. So it's easy to find. But there's been three films. There's the Ben Platt recent one, which is a spoof, but inspired by. Then there's one called Camp with Anna Kendrick.

And then there's a doc called Stage Door. I recommend you check them out. I don't think any of them actually fully captured my experience. Yeah, although they're all entertaining. Yes. Well, what did you come away with? Well, most importantly, I came away with just knowing that I knew what I wanted to do with my life.

And also, I was in an era where Scouts started to come up, and so I had a manager. You probably remember Jean Fox. Yes, I absolutely heard of Jean Fox. And so back in the day, she was a... Because we have a lot of friends in common like Josh Charles and others who went there. Who went to high school with Josh Charles. Yeah, so Josh was up there and Josh got Dead Poets Society, I think around that time.

So he was one of those people that was like, oh my God, like, look what can happen if things line up for you at stage door. That's what happened to me is I started going on auditions as a kid in New York city at like, you know, 14, I started to actually go on real auditions. When did you, how did you start going on auditions as a kid in New York City at like 14, I started to actually go on real auditions. When did you, how did you start going on auditions? I started going on auditions.

You see, this is where nepotism comes in. This is where we started having the nepotism constant conversation. Are you a nepo baby, John? I am sort of a nepo baby in that, like I got a break. I mean, I had been studying at St. Jerome Manor over the summers, and during the winters I worked as an usher at a theater called Equity Library Theater, which was on 103rd Street

in Riverside Drive. And so I saw a million shows, and I was really steeped in the whole thing. But I didn't get an actual chance to audition until my mom and I were walking down the street, and we ran into an actor named Peter Retray, who was an understudy in Torch Song Trilogy. And he said, hey, have you auditioned for Torch Song Trilogy? Because there was a young actor named Matthew Broderick who had just lit the world on fire because he was so great in Torch Song Trilogy. And they needed somebody to replace him.

And I was like, sure, I'd love to audition. And a friend of my mom's who was a manager, he actually was a lighting designer, but he decided he wanted to try to be a manager. And he said, well, I can get you another audition. Let's get you an audition for Brighton Beach memoirs, which Matthew Broderick was also in. And I auditioned for both of them in the course of two days. And of and mostly because I resembled him. I think I got both of them on the same day Oh my god Wow, which was nuts, but I honestly believe it had a lot to do with that I just resembled him so strongly Matthew Broderick at that era was the guy on Broadway.

I mean, I saw all of those Neil Simon plays with my father and he was as cool. You saw Matthew Broderick on Broadway? I saw Matthew Broderick do those Neil Simon plays. They were Brighton Beach memoirs, Biloxi Blues. This was before he became a giant movie star. He was the Broadway young Jewish, I don't know if he's Jewish, but that sort of Jewishy

young character. Jewish. He was the Leo DiCaprio of Neil Simon Broadway. But he was amazing. I mean, Brighton Beach Memoirs is a really long show. I mean, it's like two and a half hours. And it was mostly him. It's mostly told from his point of view with the,

he has these enormous monologues and, and he was just, just incredible. And you know, so that was my, my first job was being his understudy in Brighton Beach. Wow. And you got to go on? No, well, yes and no. No.

No, I got, I got fired. I was, I was his understudy for six weeks and understudy rehearsals, have you guys understudied on stuff? No. No. It's a different skill cause you're trying to sort of take the person's place

but not, you know, and make it your own, but also do what the other people need to get from, that they get from the other guy, you know? Right. So it's a little bit tricky. do what the other people need to get from, that they get from the other guy, you know? So it's a little bit tricky. In my case, they only rehearsed understudies twice a week. You only got two days of rehearsal. So after six weeks, I was still struggling

because I'd only had 12 days of rehearsal for this huge part. Huge part. And you didn't rehearse with the main guys, you rehearsed with the other understudies who were sometimes doubling people. So they would sometimes play two parts or whatever. And so basically, after six weeks,

Matthew won the Tony for best actor. And I remember hearing his name get announced and going, oh shit. Now I was understudying a guy who, like whenever you go see a show and you open your program and there's a blow in card saying tonight the role of better but I will be played by blah blah blah blah. You go, oh, if the person that is being replaced just won the freaking Tony. So I was not looking forward to that. And we had my next rehearsal with Gene Sachs, the director, and I had to yell line a couple

of times because it's an enormous part. It's like flipping Hamlet. And the next day I get a call from my manager, the guy who used to be a lighting designer, and he said, hey, instead of going to rehearsal, why don't you come down to my office? And I was like, I have to be at rehearsal. And he said, hey, instead of going to rehearsal, why don't you come down to my office? And I was like, I have to be at rehearsal. And he said, no, you don't. Just get down here and we'll talk about it. I'll get you some ice cream.

Exactly. And I came in and he was crying. And he said, I don't know how to tell you this, but they fired you. But crazy, crazy, crazy coincidence though, that day, Fisher Stevens gave them notice on Torch Song that he had to leave Torch Song trilogy at that point. And so my manager got a call saying, hey, is John Cryer available to take over in Torch Song? Oh my God.

Wow. So that next day- Well, you didn't even get one day to be sad. No, I managed to be sad. I managed to be sad that day. I mean, you know. I mean, yeah, well, that's a blow to your ego right there. Yeah, of course.

What did you take from that, you think? I mean, because that's fucking humbling as hell when you're, especially, I mean, for anyone, but especially when you're beginning. Yeah, I took from it that I did not prepare well enough, which I really, I didn't. I really felt like I should have, I could have spent a lot more time working on it.

And I should have, for that run in front of the director, there's no excuse for me to be yelling line ever, frankly. That can't happen on the night. I can't be, you know, I got to be ready and I wasn't And and so, you know, that's fair. It's fine. That's fair to fire me for that Wow, all right, we're gonna have to commercial break because we do that here and when we come back we want to talk about pretty in pink One of Donald Faison's favorite films dude. it's one of the things that changed my life.

Alright, we'll be right back. It started with a backpack at the 1996 Centennial Olympic Games. A backpack that contained a bomb. While the authorities focused on the wrong suspect, a serial bomber planned his next attacks. Two abortion clinics and a lesbian bar. attacks, two abortion clinics, and a lesbian bar. But this isn't his story. It's a human story, one that I've become entangled with.

I saw as soon as I turned the corner, basically someone bleeding out. The victims of these brutal attacks were left to pick up the pieces, forced to explore the gray areas between right and wrong, life and death. Their once ordinary lives, and wrong, life and death. Their once ordinary lives and mine change forever. It kind of gave me a feeling of pending doom. And all the while, our country found itself facing down a long and ugly reckoning with a growing threat. Far right, homegrown, religious terrorism. Listen to Flashpoint on the iHeart

radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the summer of 2020, in the small mountain town of Idlewild, California, five women disappeared in the span of just a few months. Eventually, I found out what happened to the women. All except one. A woman named Lydia Abrams, known as Dea. Her friends and family ran through endless theories. Was she hurt hiking? Did she run away? Had she been kidnapped? I'm Lucy Sherriff. I've been reporting this

story for four years, and I've uncovered a tangled web of manipulation, estranged families, and greed. Everyone, it seems, has a different version of events. Hear the story on Where's Dear, my new podcast from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcasts. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. by their friend and agent Doug Hendrickson, it's gonna be a wild ride. We can change the world podcast by podcast. You talk from the bottom. Listen to Poli-Tickin' with Gavin Newsom, Marshawn Lynch and Doug Hendrickson on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.

Open your free iHeart app and search Poli-Tickin' and start listening. We watched your Wins at and Donald. And we're back. And we're back. Yeah, that was amazing. Donald tell John how much pretty and pink means to you. You probably told him, but tell them so people can hear. Listen, okay.

So as a kid, I started going to private schools and in private schools, you know, as a black dude in frickin private schools, you get, you know, not really, you know, you're not necessarily the most popular kid in school. You know what I mean? And I needed an identity. You know what I mean? Because all of the identities that I had before that worked in, you know, wherever I was, it wasn't working. And I saw Pretty in Pink and I saw Ducky.

And I was like, that's my fucking identity. That's my fucking identity right there. There he is. So how did you adopt it? Well, then at the same time, a different world was coming on too. And Dwayne Wayne and Ducky were kind of like the same fucking character.

You know what I mean? But just one was black and one was white. You know what I mean? But both were having a hard time fitting in and couldn't really figure out, you know, they knew they loved one person though. They knew they had one person that they could love. And so, and for me, it was the

arts, you know what I mean? I wanted to be an actor so bad. And it was to be around all of these fucking great, you know, Macaulay Culkin went to my school, Holly Marie Combe, who was acting at the time was at the school, Jerry O'Connell, who was the fat kid from Stand By Me, he was at the school, Malcolm Jamal Warner, Tempestace, all these motherfuckers were at the school, right? And I'm like, I gotta fit in somehow. And Ducky, John was the fucker, I mean the man, was the guy. That's the legend. I'm sure there's a lot of people,

and Donald's being totally genuine, I'm sure there's a lot of kids, young men, who sort of felt like they saw themselves in that car. Have you heard that, I'm sure, throughout your life? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And it spans the spectrum. I mean, there's a lot of gay kids have come up to me saying, yeah, I just assumed Ducky

was gay. And mostly it's somebody who has this weird, fun, misplaced courage. He had this, he sort of lived out loud, even if the world didn't give him that respect. And I think that's what people gravitate to the character. He was really the person I wanted to be in high school. I was not brave enough to be Ducky in high school. I was not in any, I remember once, it was freezing cold.

I mean, New York gets bitterly cold. And I used to have to walk across the projects to get to the CC line on the train, because I used to go to Bronx High School of Science. And I remember it was freezing cold and I had some leg warmers that I had had from a dance class. So I put on my leg warmers,

because damn it, my legs were freezing. I got to school with my leg warmers on and they never, for three years, I was leg warmers to everybody. So I dressed nondescript for the rest of my time at that school. And he was who I wanted to be. And I think that resonates for a lot of people.

To have the courage. And yeah, I remember there be. And I think that resonates for a lot of people. Courageous to have the courage. And yeah, I remember there was one that I knew of, one out gay kid in my high school. And I think back to the incredible courage. I mean, this was 93 to 97. And it must have been so hard for him. But I think back now when I go, gosh, the courage that this kid had.

Yeah. And that's kind of reminding me what you're talking about. Just being unabashedly himself. Yeah, because the 70s and 80s were an interesting period because you'd had Stonewall. So the gay community was coming out and proud of it. Yes, they were. And it was, yeah, and it was a big part of culture,

but there was still like, you could see Revenge of the Nerds where they clearly wanted you to empathize with this gay character, but they're super duper making fun of him at the same time. Yes. You know, and we, and I remember, you know, it was, you know, because I was in the theater, everybody, you know, that was the go-to epithet when people were trying to insult theater everybody, you know, that was that was the go-to epithet

When people were trying to insult me was you know, there's some homophobic slur, you know And and we but but part of because we were in the theater We kind of felt we were of gay culture because that's gay culture is such a big deal in the theater By the way, I wanted you probably have this in common with me too Is that like all the young people that were my mentors were predominantly gay men, whether they be the teachers at the camp or the counselors or older kids at the camp, or then you get into theater and there was so many people, Michael Larson, of course, some of you remember.

Michael Larson, wonderful teacher. If you grew up in New York or in the theater community, from teachers to students to best friends, this was what you, especially in New York, especially in Midtown Manhattan where I grew up, it was a part of the community as well. But you know, you better not be one of them. Yes. Yeah, no know, you better not be one of them.

Yes. It retained that stigma. Yeah. And guys who weren't gay, you know, still often felt the need to prove that they weren't. So it was an odd period because I remember, you know, we would sort of make fun of the homophobic slurs, but also, you know, we're still using them, you know? So America had a lot of learning to do. So what was that like, John, when that movie became such a hit for you? I mean, how did your life change in day to day? For me, it was interesting because I didn't perceive that I would be super duper famous.

Actually, the moment I noticed that I sort of had a tiger by the tail was I went to see the Breakfast Club, which we had not started shooting Pretty in Pink, but the Breakfast Club came out. I went to see it and it was a packed audience. At the end, the audience just erupted in this ovation. And I thought, oh my gosh, I guess I'm in the next one of these things. And it was like, no pressure.

Ha ha. Ha ha. Yeah, but you closed the movie so properly too though, man, if we could get to it. But anyway, we can get to it. Well, but so I did love, I had always been, like my sister, I had always admired my sister's social skills.

Like she could go out to a club and she knew how to get in. She knew the bouncer, she talked to people. She had a real nightlife. And I always thought, oh wow, it must be amazing to have like a nightlife, have like a social life that way. And so once the movie came out,

I was like, I can get into clubs, finally. You know? And I did like that. And I did like feeling like I had a place in the world. Like I wasn't just like that guy in the, you know, cause invariably you would go with a bunch of friends to a club and they'd say, okay, you could come in, you could come in, but not you.

And that would be a big finger at me. And so. It's funny you say that because I kind of, I kind of had a similar experience with Donald. I didn't know anything about going to a nightclub or getting into a nightclub. And Donald, you know, by the time we did Scrubs was dialed in and knew people.

And then he brought me and I was like, a whole new world. Don't you dare close your eyes. And I did like that, whole new world. Don't you dare close your eyes. And I did like that, you know, women were into me out of nowhere, you know, which was kind of fun. I remember I met this one, this woman named Dawn. She worked at a casino. She was the baccarat dealer.

But she talked really slowly. And she was beautiful. And I remember I was like, oh, I got a shot with Dawn and it did not work out. I do remember liking that women felt they knew me right away that I had an entree with women. Believe me, I blew it anyway. I wasn't, I still, you know, it didn't make me particularly good at the dating thing.

But I, you know, it didn't make me particularly good at the dating thing, but I, you know, I did appreciate that socially it made me feel a lot more comfortable. I'll never forget that feeling where the literally, I had been in movies before, I guess not a lot of people had seen them, but I remember when Clueless came out the week before I was at this club and it was called Esso's. I'll never forget this. And I tried to dance with this girl. I was like, you want to dance?

And she was like, no, and turned her back and everything. Two weeks later, I'm back at Esso's, Clueless has come out, same girl comes up to me now. And she's like, do you wanna dance? And I remember being like, this is your chance to be like, no. But I thought she was so hot that I was like, hell yeah, let's dance.

I was like, I wonder what changed. I remember thinking, this is how naive I was. I wonder what changed. It must be, you know. And it was the clueless effect. Do you remember when Donald and I were at the club once and this was early on and this was in the era of, I mean, I'm saying this so nerdily and this is in the era

because I don't go to nightclubs anymore, but women were backing their things up, right Donald? Yes, this was that era. It was the era where the woman would kind of like back her booty up and like, I don't know. I haven't been to a club. I don't know, Joel, do you know if people are still backing their things up?

They definitely are Zach. They are backing their asses up. Thank you, Joel. Thank you. I back up my desktop computer. That's what I back up because I have good habits. We haven't been to the club in a while. I just didn't know if people were still

backing their things up. Definitely, they're popping it and. Okay, all that stuff. All right, so this is what happened to me, Joelle. The women are coming up to me and they're backing their things up to my groin area and I don't know what to do. And I look over to Donald like, how do you handle this?

What's appropriate? This is legit. This is legit. This is not lying. This is legit. And I looked over to Donald and he was like my coach. He was like my cool guy coach. Cause Donald was super cool at the club.

You can imagine. At this point, Clueless is like years. I had done, remember the Titans by this point. I had done, I was well in effect mode at this point. Donald was dialed in at the club and knew how to handle when women backed their things up. So I said, what do I do? And he said, you got to swing with it.

And he kind of. I said, you got to ride it, buddy. You got to ride it. And he kind of. I said, you gotta ride it, buddy. You gotta ride it. He made this gesture where like, you'd like just gently hold the hips and then you just ride with it. And I was like, I can't believe, but then, and then, and then, and then like cut to like,

cut to like an hour later, he looks over and I'm like, I'm doing it, I'm doing it. I got my thumbs up. Yo, now, yo, I'll never forget, I'll never forget this though. Flash forward about six, seven years into the game, we're out and about, I think we're at Sundance or some shit like that.

And he's dating a girl at the time and she's backing her thing up on him. And he looks over at me and he's doing this, he's riding it. And the face that he made is like, yeah, you remember where we started. I mean. The student has become the master.

Donald taught me how to just ride it. Just ride it. Wow. Donald taught me how to just ride it. Just ride it. Wow. That's funny. Wow. So John, I wanted to ask you too, because you've had, like Donald and I, like so many, like every actor,

you've had ups and downs, you've had shows that didn't go. And then of course we'll get to the fact that you then got one of the biggest sitcoms of all time, Two and a Half Men. You know, I'm sure we have a lot of, I know we have a lot of actors and people in the business who listen. What is your advice or anything, any thoughts you have on how to ride that wave of, because Donald and I have experienced it. Some years, everything's on fire.

And some years you're like, God, I fucking suck. And then all of a sudden you get two and a half men and your life changes forever. Yes, what I try to do is enjoy how stupid the business is and how unfair it is. Cause it's ridiculous. You and I know, we've all been there. You know, we've seen, you know, there was people

in stage or people in other, you know other places that I've been where I used to go, oh my God, that person is a monstrous talent. If this business was fair in any way, this person would be Daniel Day-Lewis. And then it just doesn't happen for some reason. And you're like, wow. So I try to enjoy how entertaining and dumb the business is. I do love connecting with audiences and I try to remember that that's the payoff is that you get these opportunities to connect with audiences.

And when you get in a hit, it's just getting more people to connect with. And then you gotta treat that with some respect. Like when people come up to you in the supermarket, this is somebody who had a connection with you and felt like they, that your work touched them and you know what, respect that and be grateful. So I try to come at everything with gratitude. And yeah, I had been, when two and a half men came up,

I had been through three years of getting a week of work. I had to have two weeks of work. I did an episode of the practice and I think I did an episode of Becker. You remember Becker, the Ted Danson show? So in three years, I did two weeks of work total. And I, because I had done, I did the famous Teddy Z, which was a show for CBS, which tanked after half a season. I did a show called Partners for Fox, which lasted a whole season and then tanked.

And then I did a thing called Getting Personal for Fox. And that one tanked after a season. So I got known as the guy who had his shot, but that nobody really wanted to see. I mean, do you get like I do and go, oh, I've lost it, I suck, what am I doing? Yes. And you start to go, wow, I have no real skills. What can I do?

Can I teach? You know, maybe I can, you know, what can I, you know, what really I'm, I gotta look at what, where am I going to go from here? You know? And that happened, but I did an interesting thing that I, that, remember, it doesn't exist as much anymore, but there was pilot season where there was just this onslaught of projects and everybody was auditioning

for the same stuff and, you know, people were dropping right and left, you know, oh, he got that show, oh, he got, or she got that show, you know, and it was just like a stampede. It was a stampede of actors and jobs and agents, and it was madness. And one year I decided, after three years of almost no work and it was really starting to hit me financially,

I decided that I would audition for everything. I was auditioning for everything, whether I was right for it, whether I wasn't right for it. I just said, I gotta get in the room with people and show them I can do this and have fun with it. And I auditioned and that particular pilot season, it was crazy. I auditioned for like this not good science fiction show, got offered a small part in it, turned it down.

Got offered another thing wildly inappropriate for me, but got offered it, turned it down. Got offered another thing wildly inappropriate for me, but got offered it, turned it down. And what I did was I ended up getting nine offers that pilot season that I just kept turning down. And the last two were Two and a Half Men and Battlestar Galactica. Holy shit. Which became a huge show. Dude, both of them hits.

Both hits. One huge like get the fuck out of here hit. Like holy shit hit. And then another one in its own right, man. Oh no, Battlestar is one. Jumpstarted sci-fi. Jumpstart you know what I mean. Is one of the best science fiction television series

in the history of television. But what shifted, Jon? I love Battlestar. So you did, what do you think when you look back shifted because all of a sudden you've got nine offers? Yeah, well, what it was was I started small. I just started like, it was blood in the water because there's nothing sexier that they can hear than no.

Once you say, no, I don't want that, they want you even more. And so when there was that first little part that I said no to, they're like, what? And they wanted to reboot Courtship of Eddie's father. And I was like, nope, that's not for me. Well, partly because the script wasn't there. But I turned that down.

And there was just, it made people excited about me again because I was turning things down. And- You weren't desperate, bro. Yes, I didn't seem desperate. I was desperate. I just didn't seem like it. Right, right, yeah.

It has so much to do with your mindset. I mean, I know that sounds obvious, but I came at, Donald and I did this workshop, not separate from each other, but we both did this workshop. Did you ever do the forum? No. The Landmark Forum was a workshop that Donald and I both did as young people. I did it in my early 20s.

Anyway, it was such a powerful boost for me. I came out and on the Monday, I had four auditions. I got three callbacks on them. And nothing had changed other than my mindset and what I was saying to myself in my head. And what was that? What did you say to yourself? Well, I think it was just, you know,

I mean, obviously it's a great self-help workshop, but I was present. I was in the moment. I was being so gregarious and outgoing and fun and in the room. And I think I was just, I remember, for just a tiny example, I remember always going into waiting rooms

and sitting there silently and looking at my shoes and just being awkward and cringy. And I remember that Monday, engaging with everyone in the waiting room and talking and laughing and being like a community of actors instead of antagonistically. And so I went in, I went into the room by the time I got in there, already in a great mood, laughing as opposed

to being like, we're in battle. Just little tiny things like that, but mostly just mindset. Well, you guys know that getting anything going in this business, getting a project that you like, that positivity is so important, just because it's so hard. It's so hard to do this stuff. It's so hard to get things going. It's so hard.

So when you walk in the room and you're positive and you bring positive energy and people say, you know, I need this from you. You say, you know what? I'm gonna figure out how to give you that thing that you need. That's a mindset that people want to have around. You guys know, you come from comedy and you know that people like,

that when there is a steady sort of comedic feeling just sort of in the air air that comedy just comes much easier It just does I I really I I remember the rooms Where we I would come into auditions and everybody was laughing and having fun and everything like that And I always thought on it trying to sabotage me They're trying to sabotage me and And I would then fucking, you know, I would step away from that and try to focus on, on just my words and everything. And I never would have a good audition when I did stuff like that.

I do, that's exact, for Scrubs, we were, I remember that. Zach wasn't at this audition, but Sarah was. I remember we were all in the room having fun, trying to make each other laugh. We all knew our lines at this point. You know what I mean? Let's go fucking, let's go fucking, you know, good luck to you. Good luck to you. Let's go fucking try and get this job. Cause we knew how big the show was or, you know, at least that's what our agents had told us. All right. Let's take a quick break and we come back.

We won't keep you too much longer, John, but we have to ask a little some two and a half men questions. I'm sure audience want to know all about that. We'll be right back after these fine words. It started with a backpack at the 1996 Centennial Olympic Games, a backpack that contained a bomb. While the authorities focused on the wrong suspect, a serial bomber planned his next attacks. Two abortion clinics and a lesbian bar.

But this isn't his story, it's a human story. One that I've become entangled with. I saw as soon as I turned the corner, basically someone bleeding out. The victims of these brutal attacks were left to pick up the pieces, forced to explore the gray areas between right and wrong, life and death. Their once ordinary lives and mine changed forever. It kind of gave me a feeling of pending doom. And all the while our country found itself facing down a long and ugly

reckoning with a growing threat. Far right, homegrown, religious terrorism. Listen to Flashpoint on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the summer of 2020, in the small mountain town of Idlewild, California, five women disappeared in the span of just a few months. Eventually, I found out what happened to the women. All except one. A woman named Lydia Abrams, known as Dea. Her friends and family ran through endless theories. Was she hurt hiking? Did she run away? Had she been kidnapped? I'm Lucy Sherriff. I've been reporting this story for four years, and I've uncovered a tangled web of manipulation, estranged families, and greed. Everyone, it seems, has a different version of

events. Hear the story on Where's Dear, my new podcast from Pushkin Industries and iHeart Podcasts. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. This could be the craziest podcast pairing ever. The governor of California, Gavin Newsom and Super Bowl champ, Marshawn Beast Mode Lynch are politikin'. What does politikin' even mean? There's bridging gaps. With no politics. Joined by their friend and agent Doug Hendrickson,

it's gonna be a wild ride. We can change the world. Podcast by podcast. What are you talking about, bro? Listen to politikin' with Gavin Newsom, Marshawn Lynch, and Doug Hendrickson on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search politikken and start listening.

John, you're a natural at that. You're a natural at this, bud. John, you're a natural. Every guest, every guest wants to be like, hey, so how you guys been? Yeah, usually our guests think that we're gonna take a legit commercial break and chat. How long's the break, two minutes?

Two minutes? No. John, you picked right up on our fake breaks. So what was the two and a half men, I mean, I know there was wacky anecdotes to be had. Did you enjoy your experience? Let's start at the beginning. Let's start at the beginning.

Let's start at the very beginning. A very long place to start. Chuck Lorre, I just did a small guest spot on Bookies and met Chuck for the first time. It felt good making him laugh. He seems like a very, very talented man. Chuck is, yeah, is wildly talented. He had, you know, it's funny because those still waters

run kind of deep. He's actually, you know, really thinking about the big questions a lot of the time, but his sort of method of putting stuff out is through, you know, laughter and, you know, but he's a very smart guy. And I, you know, he's also known as when you're working on his stuff as a very generous laugher. He sort of starts that ball rolling.

Oh, so you're saying these were fake laughs? Yeah, he's saying, just so you know, the laughs you got are super easy and... Shit. Just so you know, the laughs you got are super easy. And no, no, I'm incredibly helpful. I'm incredibly grateful for that because it's incredibly helpful in just figuring out your timing and figuring out what works. And I had done this pilot with him where he was this incredibly generous laugher all the time we were doing it. And but that show didn't go.

So when I auditioned for Two and a Half Men, the first time I'm reading it is not with Charlie Sheen. It was just reading with a reader. And I come in, but I'm thinking, well, at least Chuck's a great laugher. So at least I got that on my side. And I go in and silence. I get nothing from Jack. And I was like, what happened?

Cause I had heard him laughing for other people. Oh, that's the worst. When you're in the waiting room, for those of you who aren't actors, when you're auditioning for a comedy and you're in the waiting room and you hear the person crushing in the room and you're like, and then also all this thing like, oh my God, you're so funny, John.

Yeah. And all that shit. Oh my gosh. And then you have to go in after and then you're like, I hope I get a fraction of those laughs. That person just crushed. Yeah. I got nothing from Chuck.

I mean, he was lovely and cordial and he really liked, and he made it clear, he really liked how the scene played out. But I was really thrown by it. And immediately I get home and I get a call from my agent saying, they want you to meet Charlie tomorrow. And I was like, oh, okay, great, but I guess I didn't blow it. I come in the next day, and it's like 180 degrees.

Chuck is just over the top. Everything is hitting. Everything is perfect. And afterwards I walked out, I said, dude, you were awfully quiet yesterday. What was up? And he said, oh, no, I was just in shock because nobody got it right before.

Oh, wow. So cool. And it was very late in the process. They had been looking for Allen's for a month and a half when I finally came in and I Later found out that Les Moonves the head of CBS was not looking forward to me auditioning because I think I don't know He didn't he felt like I was a showkiller because my other shows had died And so I was thought of as kind of a spent commodity.

Oh my God. And it was funny because at the same time, I'm going in on Battlestar Galactica, which is this totally different part for Gaius Baltar, which is a wonderful role. Of course, man. Great, great role. Jamie Cowell's in it, a planet,

and he's wonderful in it. But I would have had to do a lot of that show shirtless, which I don't think anyone wanted You would have gotten ripped I would yeah maybe maybe but I don't know if America's ready for that at any rate But but so I'm so I'm meeting with Ronald Moore on Battlestar and I'm meeting with Chuck like on the same days. These things are happening I'm like what the hell is happening here? And I'd read the Battlestar script and I loved it.

And I read the Two and a Half Men script and I loved it. And so then I went and read with Charlie Sheen and Chuck really dug it. Then they had me come in and meet with, you know, and read for the Warner Brothers executives. And again, it went over huge that time. And then it's all building up to reading for CBS, reading for Les Moonves.

And everybody is kind of like, that's not gonna happen. And, but we went in and Les to his credit, according to Chuck, turned around and said to Chuck, okay, you win this one Meaning he got he was allowed to cast me and And that's and I took that one because it was basically I had to remember how test deals work I would have had to turn down Two and a half men in order to take Battlestar because they you when you're making your test deals at the beginning

just for non actorsactors out there, the way that networks used to do this during pilot season, they would make a test deal where they would totally pre-negotiate your contract before you auditioned for the network. They don't want you to have any power. Any leverage whatsoever. Exactly. So you sign your contract before they cast you. So if there's down to four people,

those four people have all signed completely different deals because of their level of stardom or success or agents ability. And so you've all got like seven year contracts signed and then they just pick one. Yeah. But not only that, sometimes you're like, you get to the testing area for a lot of actors,

for those who, like John is saying, had two on the table at the time. You know, you get to the table and you're like, shit, I don't wanna choose now. Can't we just do, let's get a little bit closer. Closer. You know what I mean? And that way they both want me

and they can both vie for my services. Right. How about that? How about that? And they're like, no, no, no, no, no, you've got to pick right now. And it's like, fuck. And what that means though, is that you've got to pick. And like by picking, making my test deal

with two and a half men, that meant I couldn't do Battlestar. That was a wrap right then and there. So I was like, it was very possible that I could do my two and a half men audition and lose it and not have Battlestar and just be screwed. So thankfully it worked out and I got two and a half men and oh, a little known interesting fact on two and a half men.

My mother was originally played by Blythe Danner when we did the first read through. She absolutely killed it. She was wonderful. What happened was we started rehearsing and Blythe Danner has this wonderful vulnerability to her, which she didn't have at the reading. When we did the reading, she was just balls to the wall. I've worked with her. She's wonderful. Yeah, she's wonderful. But when we started actually putting it on its feet, that vulnerability just crept into how she was playing the mom. And Chuck kept trying to work with her to say, like, understand, you gotta toss these off.

If we start to feel for her this way, this gets much darker. She can't think about what she's doing. And eventually it just, it didn't work. And a lot of times actors think you have the part when you do the pilot. And we're here to tell you that's not. That is not.

That is what it is. You don't even have. Think of the pilot as your final audition. No, no. No. The pilot is, look, the read through, the read through is still, you're still on. Yeah, that's another thing is don't make sure you,

there's actors who kind of phone in the read through. Bring your A game. Don't phone in the read through. Yeah. That's the worst. Yes, that's my big, that's my advice. If you asked my advice earlier, is don't phone in the read through.

There's no, bring your A game to the read through. Not only that, and then when you get to fucking, when you get to the stage, you gotta, you know, especially when you're brand new on it. Like, there's been times where I've gotten there and I'm like, I'm just going to let my merit fucking who I am fucking. And then come show night, I'll give you I'll give them what they want. But when you're new to this thing or you know what I mean,

or your guest starring, you got to come in right away. No matter what, you you gotta nail it, even in rehearsal, even with the director, every time it's gotta be nailed. Because if you don't- The only sitcom I ever did was with, I did a guest spot on Donald's, I was hoping to do one on your guys' show.

Yeah, that would've been awesome. And maybe if you set it up, I hope I can do it. But Donald, I did, what was it, The Exes, Donald? The Exes, yes. It was so fun because I don't really, I don't have experience, all my, most of my experience is scrubs, which is not in front of a live audience.

And making that audience laugh was such a joy. And it's so hard not to milk the hell out of it. Oh my gosh, yes, it really is. It really, really is. And yeah, and when they're, yeah, and it's fun working on new material because a lot of the time you'll try something from the audience and maybe it doesn't work. So the writers are running in with new stuff and it's a really fun atmosphere, you know? So was it overall a fun experience on Two and a Half Men?

Yeah, I mean, we started- Did you and Charlie, did you and Charlie for the most part click? Was it overall a fun experience on Two and a Half Men? Yeah, I mean, we started. Did you and Charlie, for the most part, click? Yes, we absolutely did right away. We had done Hotshots together, that movie, and we'd had a good time doing that. And I didn't really get to know him. I mean, we were work friends.

We didn't have that many scenes together. But I liked him, and he was an incredibly friendly, gregarious guy. And by the time we did Two and a Half Men, he was sober. And so he was really on top of it and lovely to work with. The crew loved him. And for those first few seasons, it was really smooth. And also it was really unusual because we got on the air, we were put behind Everybody

Loves Raymond, which was a huge hit at that time. And then we were a huge hit right out of the box. It was the last season of Everybody Loves Raymond and they were hoping we would take over for them. And we did, you know, we just were this. And just, you know, and Donald and I have talked about this, Scrubs was an amazing show and people knew, people got that it was a great show the first season,

but ratings wise, you guys were always a little bit behind the eight ball. Yeah, exactly. We were never a giant hit. You were a giant fucking hit right off the bat. We never had that. That's a huge... I still wonder what that... I remember what Clueless felt like. But to have a television show where the next... I watched Tempest Blood So talk about it when she was a kid. And she was very young. And she said the day that Cosby came out and they were the number one show in the, she

said the very next day she could tell the chain walking from walking out of her door into the street, into where everybody was, she could feel the difference. Could you feel the difference? Like, would you, like, was it like that? Was it like? Yeah, it was pretty, I mean, this was when broadcast television was still a super big Could you feel the difference? Was it like that? Was it like? Yeah. It was pretty, I mean, this was when broadcast television was still a super big deal, you know?

And yeah, I could feel it. It was interesting, though. First season, it wasn't like night and day the first season. The second season, it was like I was the Beatles. I have no idea why it was that way. But I, you know, and that was just my perception, you know, but no, it was an incredibly lucky, unusual situation. That is, you know, for actors out there who are listening, that is unusual.

And so I, you know, and that's lovely, knowing that you have a job, knowing that it's gonna be predictable, and you can plan vacations, and you can plan your life, and you can have kids, and you can have a normal life, and you can really depend on this show being this job that's always there for you is great. But as Two and a Half Men was living proof of, that doesn't always last.

It never lasts. Everything must end. How many seasons did it go? It ended up going 12 seasons. There was eight seasons with Charlie and four seasons with Ashton Kutcher. I can't believe you and Ashton did four seasons together. That's crazy.

Yeah, it's crazy. It's a testament to you and to Chuck also. Like- The writers were amazing on that show. The writers were amazing on that show. And yeah, absolutely Chuck. And Ashton- But it was based on Chuck of Charlie Sheen at first. Like you said, you had to read with him. It wasn't like he had to read with you. You had to read with him. Yes. And then now he's gone.

Yeah. Yeah. No, it was very, it was, was It was really watching that show relaunch and seeing how the writers did that was fascinating because just oh, oh, here's a fun little backstage thing the original When I first after Charlie got fired, we all assumed. Okay. Well, we had eight great seasons were done Yeah, you know and Charlie had gone off the deep end. He was screaming in the middle of the night at Chuck. He was doing those crazy web rants in the middle of the night. Yeah, I remember that. And it was international news.

I mean, it was headline news. I remember he had Access Hollywood or one of them into his house. And he was talking about... Winning Tiger Blood. Tiger Blood. Yeah. Charlie Sheen. It's called... I'm on something called Charlie Sheen. Yes, yes, exactly. And it was talking about. Winning Tiger Blood. Tiger Blood. Yes. Charlie Sheen, it's called,

I'm on something called Charlie Sheen. Yes, yes, exactly. And it was bonkers. And I started getting these text messages from Chuck saying, we may not be done. And I was like, what do we mean there? And I get this call, they're talking to Hugh Grant to take over for Charlie Sheen.

And I was like, what? I beg your pardon. And they said, well, you know, he's got that Teflon charm. He'd been famous in America for getting caught with a prostitute and then, you know, but you know, being so charming about it, you know. And I thought, you know, he's wonderful. I'm pretty sure he's comfortable in front of an audience.

You know, he'd be amazing to have. And I said, well, but you know, he's wonderful. I'm pretty sure he's comfortable in front of an audience. You know, he'd be amazing to have. And I said, well, but you know, you're never going to get Hugh Grant. And they said, no, he's flying in tomorrow. We want you to meet with him. Oh my God. Wow. Oh my God. So I went and met with him and they had written this part for him that was this guy who was

in the diplomatic corps, the British diplomatic corps, he took a spot at the US embassy in Los Angeles because his daughter was going to school at UCLA. So he'd be this incredibly charming debonair guy. And then through the course of the episode, we find out, oh no, he's a con man. None of that's true. And he's renting out my house now

because I can't afford my house. I wanna watch that show. Yeah, no, it was super fun. It was a super fun idea and I read with Hugh, and he was terrific. He was, you know, he's Hugh Grant, he's wonderful. You know, you do, you do, you do, you do, you do, you do. And the blinking, and the blinking.

Yes, and the blinking. And he was wonderful and it was great and he was charming. But I got this sense of remoteness. Like I could sense that he wasn't really sure about this whole thing. Because multi-camera sitcom is a very, it's a specific genre. Not everybody feels comfortable in it. It's a very specific skill set. I mean, it really is.

Even if you're a theater person, it's a set of skills that only certain people can really crush. Yeah. So, he was, we had a great time talking with him. He went, you know, he got back on a plane for London. And the next day I hear, hey, you know, it's Peter Roth saying we got some issues with negotiating his contract. You know, will you agree to this type of billing? I was like, sure, we'll do Laverne and Shirley billing. It'll be great. And I get a call two hours later, Hugh Grant is co-starring with you in Two and a Half Men.

The contract is signed, we're ready to go. I was like, wow, this is, I gotta, wow, I gotta sit down. This has been a whirlwind. Second life. Yes, then an hour later, an hour later. An hour. I get a call from Chuck saying, nope, he backed out of it.

His agent said he was in and he changed his mind. And we were like, glark, glark, oh, eeeh. So then I said, okay, well, that was lovely. Thank you for that fun adventure. Thank you, universe. But Ashton didn't come up as even an option until like a couple of weeks later. I think that they didn't,

I assumed again that we were done. I don't know why they wouldn't, it's funny that once they had traction on someone like Hugh Grant, why they wouldn't be like, okay, well, it's gonna be someone. Well, yeah, that's what happened. I mean, basically it went from,

we can't do this show without Charlie to, yeah, maybe we can, you know? And Hugh was the first phase of that. And then Ashton was fun because It went from, we can't do this show without Charlie, to, yeah, maybe we can. And he was the first phase of that. And then Ashton was fun because Ashton, at this point, Ashton is very active in the tech field. He's been an investor in a lot of things. He's invested in a lot of stuff.

He's made a lot of money doing that. God bless him. And so once Chuck had a meeting with him and said, oh, well, he's got a lot of fun stories about Silicon Valley. We could have this guy be this tech billionaire who's kind of got, never really grew up. And that would be a fun thing to play off against Alan's character. And he was just a breath of fresh air. He was great fun to work with.

And he knew the skill set. He absolutely knew the skill set. He was great with the audience, great with timing. Not as good as Donald Faison though. He didn't go in the audience and dance. They got four years, bro. They got four years. We're working on two.

I'm talking about, I'm talking about, I doubt that Ashton Kutcher entertained the audience on the level of Donald Faison. Yes, I don't think so. I don't know, man. Listen, he's gonna, he'll deny it, but before Ashton Kutcher was fucking Mr. Sophisticated, fucking whatever, this dude, we used to do NBA basketball All-Star weekends together all the time.

And we would sit there, and this dude would, I'll never forget this, he would sit there and be like, man, I can't believe we're doing this. I can't believe I'm about, you know, do you have a dunk idea? Do you have any clues on what you're going to do? And I'd be like, I have no idea what I'm gonna do, man. We're just gonna go up there. And they'd be like, ladies and gentlemen, next up, Ashton Kutcher. And he'd go from, oh man, here we go, to, hello!

And I was like, this fucker, this motherfucker, dude. And he's in the stands with the ball, looking at the crowd. You know the guys that run to the stand? You know the guys that run to the stand, you know the guys that run to the stands and act like your cheering isn't enough, and so you need to give them more, or they're not gonna, I can't hear you. Those guys, that's fucking Ashton Kutcher

in front of a crowd. Oh, I take it back. He may have, if there was a competition for who can entertain an audience most, you guys might. It would be a battle. It would be a battle. He probably owns a t-shirt cannon Got all that money

John thank you so much I hope that the show gets picked up and found somewhere and I hope that I can Come on and do a guest spot. I said you should be the owner of the Knicks. That's what I have said If Donald's character is gonna be the owner of the Celtics, you're the owner of the Knicks. That would be amazing Amazing I'm newly I newly like sports so it'll be perfect. I'll prepare. It'll be great. It'll be great John, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate you. Thank you, guys. This was a blast. This was genuinely fucking hilarious.

It started with a backpack at the 1996 Centennial Olympic Games, a backpack that contained a bomb. While the authorities focused on the wrong suspect, a serial bomber planned his next attacks. Two abortion clinics and a lesbian bar. But this isn't his story.

It's a human story. One that I've become entangled with. I saw as soon as I turned the corner, basically someone bleeding out. The victims of these brutal attacks were left to pick up the pieces, forced to explore the gray areas between right and wrong, life and death.

Their once ordinary lives, and mine, changed forever. It kind of gave me a feeling of pending doom. And all the while, our country found itself facing down a long and ugly reckoning with a growing threat. Far right, homegrown, religious terrorism. Listen to Flashpoint on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the summer of 2020, in the small mountain town of Idlewild, California, five women disappeared in the span of just a few months.

Eventually, I found out what happened to the woman. All except one. A woman named Lydia Abrams, known as Dia. Her friends and family ran through endless theories. Was she hurt hiking? Did she run away? Had she been kidnapped? I'm Lucy Sherriff.

I've been reporting this story for four years and I've uncovered a tangled web of manipulation, estranged families and greed. Everyone, it seems, has a different version of events. Hear the story on Where's Dia, my new podcast from Pushkin Industries and iHeart podcasts. Listen on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. What does politikken even mean? There's bridging gaps with no politics. Joined by their friend and agent Doug Hendrickson, it's going to be a wild ride. We can change the world podcast by podcast. Listen to politikken with Gavin Newsom,

Marshawn Lynch and Doug Hendrickson on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search politikken and start listening. That was so fun. What a good guest. Wow. Donald, thanks for knowing him so he would come on our show. I'm so happy.

I'm so happy. I know him, man. Like for real, he's such a, dude, he's such a, listen, he tells stories. He's a mensch. Yeah. Dude, he's such a, listen, he tells stories. He's a mensch. Yeah, he tells stories of his life and everything like that. And you just, you're root for people like him. You know what I mean? Because he's just a good person.

Yeah, and he's the ultimate example for those of you listening who, doesn't have to be about acting, whatever you're pursuing, about ups and downs. I mean, he had, as you heard, he had so many shows get canceled. He had years where he was barely working. And he had the head of it.

He had Les Moonvest, the head of CBS, telling Chuck Lorre, don't hire him. He's a show killer. And then he gets a 12 year run on one of the biggest sitcoms of all time. I mean, it's very inspirational. Very. Don't stop the hustle. Well, you can't quit.

Can't quit cooking. You gotta keep cooking. Yeah, you and I gotta keep cooking, baby. Gotta keep cooking. I love you. That's real talk. That's real talk. That's real talk.

All right. This was so fun. Thank you, audience, for tuning in. Joelle, anything you want to say to our listeners? Oh, come back next week and listen to a great guest. We'll have somebody new next week. We'll see who it is. Somebody new next week.

And- Daniel, is there anything you want to say? Daniel, is there anything you want to say to the audience? John was great. That was a lot of fun. And yeah, I back that up. I'm excited for what the rest of the show brings. It's gonna be great. I have something to say.

Go ahead, Donald. Okay. I love my wife, Casey Cobb. And I love my children. Thank you. All right. Watch it, Chimney. Back in 96, Atlanta was booming with excitement around hosting the Centennial Olympic Games. And then, a deranged zealot willing to kill for a cause lit a fuse that would change my life and so many others forever. Rippling out for generations. Listen to Flashpoint on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or

wherever you get your podcasts. In 2020, in a small California mountain town, five women disappeared. I found out what happened to all of them, except one. A woman known as Deer, whose estate is worth millions of dollars. I'm Lucy Sheriff. Over the past four years, I've spoken with Deer's family and friends, and I've discovered that everyone has a different version of events. Hear the story on Where's Deer? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. it's gonna be a wild ride. We can change the world podcast by podcast. What are you talking about? Listen to Paula Ticken with Gavin Newsom, Marshawn Lynch, and Doug Hendrickson

on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Paula Ticken and start listening.