Fake Doctors, Real Friends with Zach and Donald - Our Pal J.D. with Dr. Jonathan Doris

Episode Date: December 3, 2020

On today's show, Zach and Donald catch up with Dr. Jonathan Doris - the inspiration for the character JD. And because he's a doctor, we ask him A LOT of questions about Covid-19, the pandemic, and the new vaccines coming out. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bring a little optimism into your life with The Bright Side, a new kind of daily podcast from Hello Sunshine, hosted by me, Danielle Robay, and me, Simone Boyce. Every weekday, we're bringing you conversations about culture, the latest trends, inspiration, and so much more. I am so excited about this podcast, The Bright Side. You guys are giving people a chance to shine a light on their lives, shine a light on a little advice that they want to share. Listen to The Bright Side on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search The Bright Side. All that sitting and swiping, our backs hurt, our eyeballs sting. That's our bodies adapting to our technology.

But we can do something about it. We saw amazing effects. I really felt like the cloud in my brain kind of dissipated. There's no turning back for me. Make 2024 the year you put your health before your inbox. And take the Body Electric Challenge. Listen to Body Electric from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at The Daily Show,

which means he's also back in our ears on The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Join late night legend John Stewart and the best news team for today's biggest headlines, exclusive extended interviews and more. Now this is a second term we can all get behind. Listen to The Daily Show Ears Edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Martha Stewart, and we're back with a new season of my podcast. This season will be even more revealing and more personal with more entrepreneurs, more live events, and more questions from you. I'm talking to my cosmetic dermatologist, Dr. Dan Belkin, about the secrets behind my skincare. Encore Jane about creating a billion-dollar startup.

Walter Isaacson about the geniuses who changed the world. Listen and subscribe to the Martha Stewart Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be right back. Gather round to hear our, gather round to hear our Scrubs Rewatch Show with Zach and Donald. What do you think? What do you think? How funny is that? It's fire, dude. That is fire. It's fire, right?

Ladies and gentlemen, I am wearing the onesie. I have the prototype on. Hold on. Come here. Come here, Case. Does Casey want to see my moose knuckle? Yeah, yeah. Show Casey your moose knuckle? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Show Casey your moose knuckle.

Casey, look. Oh, my word. Casey, look. Wait, Casey, look. Let me get Donald. Let me get Donald on it. He's frozen. Oh, you're frozen.

Oh, you pulled it up. You pulled it tight. It's so tiny. Look how small it is, babe. Don't shut up, Donald. I've seen it in bear. You've seen it raw, you said? I've seen it in the bear. You've seen it in bear You've seen it raw you say I've seen it in the bear

You've seen it in the bear Over the years she's definitely seen my pee But I'm okay with it Hey Donald I'm okay with it too Is that weird Is that weird We've known each other a long time

And there's been alcohol and hot tubs And crazy shit Hey do you like this onesie How sexy is this We've known each other a long time, and there's been alcohol and hot tubs and crazy shit. There's been a lot of that. That is true. Hey, do you like this onesie? How sexy is this? I love that onesie. It looks a little small on you.

I know. I got to tell you. I'm going to tell the fans who are listening right now. If you order this, go a size up, because I am a six-foot male, and this is a large, and I'm experiencing both moose knuckle and wedgie. Aye, aye, aye.

We'll send that to the team. Oh my God. Hold on. Let me get this straight. Go ahead, girl. Moose knuckle. Yeah.

And wedgie. Yeah. Now I'm worried our fans are going to, for the lucky, I don't know how many we got, like 600, which is probably either a lot or too little. That sounds really uncomfortable, man. Well, I'm just telling you,

we're going to put it on the site to make sure people know. I feel this is not a large. This is a medium to me. And if you- Well, nowadays, the extra large is the large nowadays, man. When you go to Nike and you buy a sweatsuit, do you buy the large or do you buy the extra large? Well, you know what they do? Because I've been doing some online clothes shopping that's smart these days.

They tell you what the model is wearing. They'll be like, the model is 6'1 and wearing a medium or whatever. So I'm the model to tell you that I'm 6'0 and slim and a large is too small. I wish I had an XL. So this is your announcement. We'll put that on the site too, I guess. Hi, guys. You know what I got to say real quick?

I just realized. What? You have no ego, sir. Because Casey and I made a small penis reference. And she was like, I know. I've seen it in The Bear. And instead of you being like, my penis ain't small, you were like, well, yeah, there's been a lot of hot tub days.

Well, I'm a grower. I'm a grower, not a shower, Donald. I'm very happy with my penis. For fuck's sake, just stop talking about your willies. Sorry, Deb. Deb, sorry. We're going to just do one or two sentences on it. But it's a grower.

It's, you know, like George in Seinfeld, if it's cold out, he's like a turtle. He tucks in for warmth. I'm a grower, not a shower. You're a fucking eel that only gets bigger. I've seen that thing. Like a fat baby's arm. All right, listen.

We have a new show for you tonight, everybody. We have a new... You wish. Listen. I wish it was a fat baby's arm. Listen, we have an exciting show for you today. We're going to do a special episode with the John Doris, the whole inspiration for Scrubs.

He was Bill's college friend, and they partied together, and then he became a very, very fancy cardiologist, cardiac surgeon, I believe. And now he is heading up. He is the Dr. Kelso of Kaiser Permanente, which is one of the biggest hospitals in Los Angeles. And we got him. And my dog has chosen this moment to play with the loud toy. so we'll have to deal with that too but um it's so thrilling so um i thought we'd talk to him about scrubs first and foremost and then because he's so smart and genius about covid we could ask him questions about the vaccines and how that's all rolling out because no one knows more than this guy so this is a fancy guest

everybody i'm really excited about this i I'm sorry. I have so many questions. I know. I couldn't sleep last night. I was rehearsing. I took notes. Did you listen to that podcast? I did listen to the podcast. Oh, you for once did your homework. Well, I mean,

let's just talk about... Okay, let's get him in. Let's get him in. Let's get him in. Here he comes. There he is. Oh, my God. Hey. Thunderous applause. Did you guys have trouble sleeping last night

because you were nervous like me? I literally did. Yeah. I literally did. Are you kidding me? By the way, this is our producer, Joel, and our editor-engineer, Danil. Hi, Danil.

Pleasure to meet you. Hi, Joel. Hi, Daniel. Pleasure to meet you. Hi, Joel. Dr. John, hi. Oh, my God. I'm so excited to see you. You just got a new nickname. Your new nickname is Dr. John. Dr. John.

Holy cow. Joel just gave it to you. There's a blues guy, Dr. John, isn't there? Leston, welcome to the program. Everybody, this is the real JD. We call them real JD. We called him real JD because the whole time he describes because not only was he Bill's inspo for writing the show, but his name is John Doris, a.k.a. JD.

And he was also our medical advisor on the show. So he is just the perfect guest for this program. He and his wife. He and his wife. That's right, Dolly as well. Can I ask you a question? How is Dolly and how are your children? Oh, thank you, Donald. Dolly is doing great.

She is now teaching kids and parents about sex and drugs and pornography. What? In what context is that? She started her own business called Adolescence, and she's a physician. She's a family physician, but now she just saw a huge opportunity for sex education and sort of lifestyle education for kids that wasn't being met, and so she's doing that now.

Is that just in la or anywhere another podcast right there oh that's right we're gonna get her on for that we're gonna book we're gonna book dolly for that but wait john is that just in uh la or is that all over the country she'll do it anywhere and now that it's now that it's zoom uh she does it she does it everywhere so it's sort of um starting a conversation with teens about sex and is it with their parents or do they do it separately how does that work all different all different variations she does all ages she does it in school she does it with parents she does it in groups in individuals she's she's really the brains of the operation

it's now if someone wanted to what is the is there a website for that how do people find out about that yeah well thank you for asking your wife right off the bat here yeah yeah it's adolescensla.com adolescens l-e-s-s-o-n-s pretty clever title right wait say it again i've I've already lost you. How do you spell it? A-D-O-L-E-S-S-O-N-S Adolescence. Some brilliant marketer must have come up with that name.

Got it. Now, John, I don't even know where to begin with you because I have so much. We want to talk, obviously, about vaccines. Everything that you're doing right now. Yeah, but I think we should start at the beginning. Let's start at the very beginning. Yes.

Very good place to start. And where we usually start with that is with your connection with Bill Lawrence. Yes. He talks about this all the time. Every time he's on the show, he talks about this and brags about this. But for us, for the listeners out there,

and for Zach and I, from your mouth, it would be great to hear that story. Yes, and also, I just want you to know, we all know Bill is a huge exaggerator. And every time you hear, I've heard stories that I was there, and like five years later, the story is nothing like what happened.

But it's amazing, because he's a genius storyteller. But like, there's like a shred of fact left. So I've heard that you were a big partier and you guys used to rage in college. And then he could never imagine the whole, the catalyst for him writing Scrubs was he couldn't imagine that this guy,

his partying, puking college buddy was going to become a doctor. Go. Go. Wow. Yes, he does. He is a great storyteller. The fish gets bigger every time the story is told. But so Bill and I, by the way, can people, are people seeing me or no? This is all audio. You look fabulous. You look wonderful. I want the audience to know that you look more handsome than JD ever did. Well know that is a that is a funny story that when bill was making the show and it was

gonna happen he said to me well now i just have to find an actor who's as pear-shaped and boring as you oh my god what a dick what a dick And that was the moment you punched him in the face, right? That was when you did it? All right, come on. So how did you meet? How did you meet? Okay, so, yes, Bill and I met when we were 17. We were in college together at William & Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia.

And we met as freshmen. I don't know if we were in the same – we were in different dorms, but then joined the same fraternity. Yeah, I mean, it was a very similar relationship, I think, to Turk and JD, actually, which my interpretation, I don't know if I've ever told this to Bill, but my interpretation of his writing of that was semi-autobiographical in that, not the medicine part, semi autobiographical in that not the medicine part but the fact that i was sort of the quiet nerdy guy and he was the popular you know sports jock you know he's great at basketball he's good looking he would always be with another woman you know like and and i would just sort of be his his sort of mute wingman right yeah but you know which you know who like, and I would just sort of be his sort of mute wingman.

Right. Yeah, but you know who's more interesting in the story. When they tell those stories, you know who's the more interesting person. That's right. That's right. It's not the guy with all the attributes. It's the one that nobody knows anything about, man. The quiet one.

The quiet killer. Right on. Bill stays true to form. He stayed true to form. He stays true to form. He stayed true to form. He stays true to form. He wrote this show about you. There's not a lot of him in this. This is truly about, Scrubs is truly about you.

Well, what he's saying, Donald, if I understand him correctly, and that's something I've never heard before, was that in his opinion, there's a whole lot of Bill and Turk. Yes. Yes, exactly. I think that's awesome. I hope when Bill looks at Turk, he's like... Well, if you think about it,

Turk is like a handsome basketball player with a fuckload of confidence. Right, right. He's the biggest personality in the room always, right? I mean, that's Bill to a T. Right on. I hope I did him proud. So what was it like in college?

Were you really the big partier that he's made you out to be over the years? I mean, we were pretty, you know, sophomoric. And it was in the 80s, and there was a lot of beer drinking. I didn't know if he was going beer or coke but we'll just say I think the subtitle when you say 80s it really means coke but okay beer, sure beer but you know I think that

as the party would go on I'd be the guy who would fall asleep and he'd be the guy that would rage all night. So I'm sure that we started out at the parties together, but he always closed down the bar. He was so hammered, he probably never knew you left. He was like, J.D. was with me the whole time. I knew I'd make it back to the frat house because JD was by my side.

Right, right. So, okay, so I'm going to fast forward because we have so much to cover. At a certain point, Bill becomes a successful writer. He's made Spin City. And he obviously gets this idea inspired by you. Tell me what that first call was like. Did he call you and say, hey, what do you think of this? How did that go? Yeah. So yeah, I was an internal medicine

resident at this point. So I had finished medical school and now I was an internal medicine resident at Brown in Providence, Rhode Island. Shout out to Providence. And yeah, he called and he started to say, listen, you've been telling me these stories for years now. And and I'm going to write this show about it. You know, I think that they're really funny. And to me, I'm thinking the stories that I told them were horrific. Like, you can't tell people those stories because they're never going to go to the hospital. That it's crazy. But, you know, he's a genius at using hyperbole and a comic genius. And he was able to capture the very human part of every story, but then make it then make it very funny.

And did you some of this stuff in the pilot in particular, Bill says that you said really happened. For example, hiding in the closet for one of your first codes. Did that happen? Okay, that needs clarity. Okay, it's Bill hyperbole, but give us some clarity. So yes, I did tell him about the first code. And for those people who don't know what a code is, when someone has a life-threatening event in a hospital, they make an announcement.

The code blew announcement over the PA and all of the residents, if it's a teaching hospital, will run there to try to save the person. And at Brown, we had, it's a big place. There are four hospitals all connected with these gerbil tubes. And so I was running to that first code and I realized like, I'm probably gonna be the first one there. And so I totally, I admit it, I i admit it i totally stopped and like acted like

my shoe needed tying and like i picked up this thing and and my my senior resident came up behind me say i saw you stop you get your ass to that code so because at that point when you're an intern you don't know what you're doing in the beginning right right so it was terrifying so were you still in charge of the were you still in charge of the situation when you got there because your senior resident residents saw you do that no i was not going to be in charge because by the time i i wasted time and acted all like i better take my time um there were already 10 people in the room and so yeah I I never lived that down my my senior resident that year never never let me live

that town and when I told Bill that story he loved it and then of course he turned it into the the one of the most famous scenes in Scrubs where right where you guys end up in the I think it was so it was so great because I think that moment, the reason it's so special is it really kind of sums up what the premise of the show was. Yes, I've been trained to be a doctor, and yes, I've done all the reading and I've passed all the tests, but I'm still a kid and I'm fucking terrified,

and I want to help, but I'm scared to help. I mean, it was the character of JD in a nutshell. And so he hides in a closet. And there, of course, is Elliot hiding along with him. Now, did your romance now was Molly? Sorry, Dolly, your wife, was she your Elliot? I mean, was that an inspiration for Bill as well? I think probably in a way. So Dolly and I, can I tell you the story of how Dolly and I met? Yeah, absolutely. Everybody wants to know the real story. Everybody wants to know this.

Dolly and I met in medical school. And in medical school, the first two years, you're in a giant auditorium. And I was, like I said, quiet quiet nerdy guy sitting way in the back and you guys know Dolly she is the life of the party she's always smiling she's friends with everybody so she was right down in the front and every day I would see this gorgeous girl come in to the class but she'd be late and she then you know trying to bring her breakfast in. So I, one day I brought an orange and I asked the person in front of me, can you send this down to Dolly? And of course, because everyone knows Dolly, I had the bird's eye view and I watched the

orange go directly beeline to her. Baller move. And I did that for a few days in a row. fall or move and i did that for a few days in a row and then the next day she brought an orange and she asked the person next to her can you send this to john doris and again i had the bird's eye view and i watched that orange meander around the room nobody knew where it was going by the time it got to me it was half eaten that's actually funny why the fuck did that not make it right and so that was uh that's how that budding relationship started now tell us about um how so once the show's up and running, you became our medical advisor. At what point were you like, all right, so long Brown, so long Rhode Island, here we go LA. Well, Dolly, that's a great

question, Donald. So Dolly is from LA. She grew up in LA. She went to high school out here and she went to UCLA. And so we met on the East Coast in New England, and we knew we were going to get married. And so she said, we're going back to have a family in LA. She wanted to be near her parents. And so we knew we were coming back, and it was just serendipity that Bill was making this show. And he asked if we wanted to be involved. And of course,

the rest is history. So was that too dramatic? Was that too dramatic? The rest is history. I'm going to use that right there. Rest is history. That's a clever end of a sentence. Now, John, now tell us, I mean, you got people, I'm sure we have a lot of people in the medical field that listen, but obviously a lot of laymen who, like us, who truly know almost nothing. How would the process go with you and Bill? Because at times we would get scripts before you'd been there and it would say like medical jargon will go here in parentheses. And then at times I'm sure he came to you and said i need a thing that would cause someone to be like this like so tell us about how you would work with bill and the writers yeah uh bill it

would be exactly that bill would call me he'd say you know we need someone to be you know really sick like on their deathbed but they can't die because that you know they have to be able to get better suddenly and have a bunch of lines and it can't be die because that you know they have to be able to get better suddenly and have a bunch of lines and it can't be cancer because that's too sad and it can't be and so i'm thinking like okay well and so i would come up with with scenarios and occasionally i'd i'd have to interject i'd say you know bill that that what you're doing there that that's really too fake that's not really the way it would happen. And he would sort of like, you know,

pat me on the back and say, you know, fake is funnier. And that was sort of the end of the conversation. That's kind of cool. A lot of it is, if I could equate it to anything, you were kind of like flight simulating scenarios. Like, you know how you play the game, like you play flight simulator and you fly different missions and stuff like that.

You were trying or DMing or dungeon mastering different types of ways that that's really interesting. I would, would you reconstruct it or, or would you deconstruct it? Right, right. it or or would you deconstruct it right right so it's almost i would definitely do some reverse engineering donald because you know knowing what the outcome would have to be you know if they were going to die or not die and then i would i would try to draw from from cases from my own uh experience and as as the seasons went on i don't know if you guys took note of this but as the seasons went on, I don't know if you guys took note of this, but as the seasons went on and I became more and more specialized out of internal medicine into cardiology and then ultimately a cardiac electrophysiologist, the scenarios became more cardiac. Because I forgot all that other stuff.

But I've been subtly – I have a funny memory of you that I've told in the podcast before, but I want to say it while you're here. So John, in addition to helping with the writing and helping Bill and the writers come up with the right scenarios and all the jargon, he would also, when there were times where we had to be doing procedures, be there when he could, or Dolly would sometimes do it when John couldn't. And this was back in the day before smartphones. And so John would obviously need to be keeping track of his patients. And he would, I remember, and there's still the fax machine era, obviously. And I remember a PA

handing John a fax of someone's like EKG. And he looked at it and he's like, yeah, I should probably get going. So I don't mean to imply that you didn't have your patients covered by other doctors, but were there times when you were with us where you had to sort of book out of there? There are definitely. And you know, the way that things happen in TV land is very different from the expectations of the way things that happen in every other job situation land. Like, what was his name? Franklin, right? Franklin. Franklin, yeah. One of our assistant directors.

That's it. That's it. Franklin will call me. He'd say, J.D., we're going to do an OR scene with Donald at noon. Can you be here at noon? Yeah, I'll be there at 1145 because I like to be prompt, and I would get there. And at, like, 7 at night, he'd be like,

okay, let's turn around. We'll start that scene with Donald. And I'd be like, okay. I do have to go back to the hospital after this so uh it's uh yeah it's very the timing the timing was very different obviously he they you know things happen on on the set where you have to do things one way or another but that was a pretty frequent uh i'll call it a frustration i'll call it a frustration wait so when we were doing scrubs you were still doing rounds then yes when we were doing scrubs uh so early on uh in the first five seasons I was still a fellow I was I was a cardiology fellow and a and an EP fellow and so I was constantly running back and

forth to the set uh from from the hospital and was a frenetic life, but it was great. It was such a great experience. And the cast and crew were all so nice and accommodating. It was really a fun time of life. I mean, every time I walked on the set, Zach seemed to be riding some new motorized people mover. And I'm like, wow, what a fun job. Why the hell aren't we using those in the hospital?

Well, it was a time I discovered that with my new money, I really just wanted to buy different types of electric scooters and I would ride them around. Wait, hold up. Before we go to break, I just have one more question to ask that was related to the question that I asked before on the other side of things though, were your peers giving you shit for working on something like scrubs did you ever have to hear were you ever not bullied but like you know i mean wouldn't they think it's badass at first you know i don't know at first it's some show that you're working

on and then when it becomes popular all of a a sudden, are you Fonzie at work? Yeah, were you Fonzie? Were you Fonzie at work, John? I've never been Fonzie. Did you hit EKGs and the things correctly? John, did you wear Scrubs merch down the halls of your hospital? We'll be right back. We're going to hold that answer, and we'll be right back right after this.

Bring a little optimism into your life with The Bright Side, a new kind of daily podcast from Hello Sunshine. Hosted by me, Danielle Robay. And me, Simone Boyce. Every weekday, we're bringing you conversations about culture, the latest trends, inspiration, and so much more. I am so excited about this podcast, The Bright Side. You guys are giving people a chance to shine a light on their lives,

shine a light on a little advice that they want to share. Listen to The Bright Side on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search The Bright Side. All that sitting and swiping, our backs hurt, our eyeballs sting. That's our bodies adapting to our technology. But we can do something about it. We saw amazing effects. I really felt like the cloud in my brain kind of dissipated. There's no turning back for me. Make 2024 the year you put your health before your inbox and take the Body Electric Challenge. Listen to Body Electric from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you

get your podcasts. Hey, my name is Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. I just had a great conversation with Michael B. Jordan and you can listen to it right now. Michael is known for his performances in both film and television. His breakout role was in Fruitvale Station, playing Oscar Grant, which earned him widespread praise and numerous award nominations. His portrayal of Killmonger in Marvel's Black Panther, one of my favorites,

further solidified his status as one of Hollywood's leading actors, earning him widespread acclaim for his complex and compelling performance. In our conversation, Michael really opens up. You're going to love listening to it and I can't wait for you to and compelling performance. In our conversation, Michael really opens up. You're going to love listening to it. And I can't wait for you to check it out. The closest to getting what you want is always the hardest. It's always the feeling when you're getting ready. People give up right before they get what they've always wanted to get. People quit.

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine you ask two people the same exact set of seven questions. I'm Minnie Driver, and this was the idea I set out to explore in my podcast, Minnie Questions. This year, we bring a whole new group of guests to answer the same seven questions, including actress and star of the mega hit sitcom Friends, Courtney Cox. You can't go around it, so you just go through it. This is a roadblock. It's going to catch you down the road. including actress and star of the mega hit sitcom Friends, Courtney Cox.

You can't go around it, so you just go through it. This is a roadblock. It's going to catch you down the road. Go through it. Deal with it. Comedian, writer, and star of the series Catastrophe, Rob Delaney. I shouldn't feel guilty about my son's death.

He died of a brain tumor. It's part of what happens when your kid dies. Intellectually, you'll understand that it's not your fault, but you'll still feel guilty. Alt rock icon, Liz Phair. That personal disaster wrote Guyville. So everything comes out of a dead end. And many, many more. Join me on season three of Many Questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Seven questions. Limitless answers. Okay.

And we're back. And we're back. All right, John. Did people think you were cool or did you hide it from your peers? Well, I have to say, in the beginning, as a fellow, there's so much work to be done at the hospital. And every time I'd run out of there, I'd be like, hey, dude, could you cover this for me? Could you do that? And so it started to be a little bit onerous on my co-fellows.

But then once they realized what was happening, they were definitely into it. And I had a great band of brothers as a fellow. And, you know, eventually they'd be like, all right, why don't you tell them about this patient? And why don't you tell them about my this and my that? And I used to be this. So yeah, it became a fun thing. Are you the one who told Bill about the ass box,

about all the stuff that the hospitals pull out of people's asses because they just like to put things in their asses? That's just a human thing? I think that everyone who has gone through medical training has

had that patient with something lodged. What's the weirdest thing you've had to pull out of someone's ass? Don't lie. It's okay. John, be honest. What have you pulled out of assholes? Well, I mean, I don't want to make fun of it. There was someone who came in saying, you know, there's a beer bottle in my, you know, a beer bottle got stuck.

Can you get it out? And this, I don't want to say this because people might get horrible. Like a 40-ounce or like a normal. Well, everyone was looking at the x-ray and they were betting on what kind of beer it was going to be. Oh, God. You guys, this is a public service announcement. We have a cardiac surgeon here. A very, very, very smart man.

Do not put things that aren't supposed to go in your ass. Are there any things? Well, you can put dildos. You know, things that are meant. There are a lot of things that can go in your butthole. No, there's butt plugs and dildos. But I don't think a beer bottle is one of them.

I don't think a beer bottle is one of them. That's my point. John, is it safe to say stick with penises, butt plugs, and dildos? You know, as a cardiac expert. And anal beats. And anal beats. And anal beats. And anal beats.

Up to any sex-approved sex toys and penises. But other than that, maybe not a beer bottle. Yeah. One of the best lines in Scrubs history, when Cox sees a light bulb in someone's ass, and he says, either this guy has a light bulb up his ass or his colon has a great idea.

John, I wanted to tell you though, I don't know if you, I'm sure you know this, that the AMA has come out and said of all the medical shows, Scrubs was the most accurate. That must make you pat yourself on the back. You gotta feel good about that yeah i i have definitely heard that from from people and you know i work in oswald that has a huge number of of uh physicians and training uh and um you know as as people come through to interview and i'll walk walk down the hall. I will hear people say, oh, that's the guy.

That's the guy from Scrubs. And over and over, they will say, this is why I wanted to go to medical school because of this show. This is so accurate. I've experienced every one of those things. And I think the accuracy was most, the thing that was most accurate was the feeling of what was going on. The emotional anxiety, the emotional roller coaster that the residents that you guys were portraying was really the thing that was the most real. Yeah, but people are always amazed because, you know, a lot of the most real. Yeah. But, but, but, you know, people are always amazed because, you know, there, a lot of the medical shows are dramas, whereas we were about as silly as a comedy could be, but Bill's commitment. And I imagine it came from you as well, um, was that

when you play the medicine, I want it all to be real. I want it to be straight. And so we can go and have a crazy fantasy where, you know, the crazy shit you can imagine is happening. But when we come back, the medicine itself is all played real and straight. Yeah. Right. Not necessarily the circumstances of how the medicine is given, but the medicine is always going to be on point. We're not going to tell you a lie on, you know, this would work or this wouldn't work. You know what i mean like even with the

spinal where the guy got injured with his spine and everything like that and they were doing the ice and fused not fusing the spine but you was it water and freezing the spine is that what they were doing right right stuff like that that was an experimental thing at the time and we had to get that right because it was something that was new. You couldn't, you can't, you can't be like, and this is how you healed somebody with the broken back. If there, if there wasn't something out there.

Right. And I feel like you made sure every time it was like that. Yeah. And that was a really weird way to get there, but yeah. Even more than that. I think, I think back of maybe the,

the episode where all three of the main characters, or four main characters, sorry, I just belched. No, I want to keep that belched, because I want, no, the reason I'm going to keep it is I want everyone to know that even cardiac surgeons will belch. So, you know, the episode

where all four of the main characters have someone who dies, that, in a comedy, was the most dramatic and heartfelt episode on TV. Your experience, Zach, with the elderly woman who chooses to die. Like, that is a huge truth in medicine. People choose to die. And it's heartbreaking and heart-wrenching for you as a physician who gets to know them and maybe you don't necessarily agree with their their decision

and you're trying to subtly talk them out of it but you all also want to you also want their decision to be what what's driving their autonomy so that that that episode really stands out in my mind as what really captured it yeah right what about the emotional connection like how do you if if if that's what it is then how do you make it the next day if you're rooting for someone to survive over and over and over again you know what i mean how do you make it back to work again like that was something that we show in scrubs and the courage that all of the frontline workers have there's courage that all of the doctors that work in hospitals all of that stuff after witnessing death like that you know how do you get up or or with you know and it's not just death like someone passes away peacefully.

Sometimes it's violently. Sometimes it's kids. Sometimes there's so many things. How do you process all of this, close your eyes, go to sleep, wake up, and say, okay, I'm going to go and receive all of this energy again? How do you do that? How is that? That is such a good point, Donald.

It can be taxing. A couple things come to mind. Obviously, if you know someone's going to die and you can help them have a dignified death, death with dignity, that's always enriching. As sad as it is, at least they had death with dignity. I always enriching uh as sad as it is as you know at least they had death of dignity i don't want to take your podcast down you know uh no no no this is

exactly what yeah this is the show this is what we wanted to do right yeah we want yeah yeah exactly uh and uh you know my special part of my specialty i I specialize in diseases of sudden death. And so I have many of my patients who die suddenly, you know, like Len Bias, you know, those those types of diseases. And so, yeah, there is you do connect with your patients and and it can hurt. But, you know, you try to give them death with dignity. If it happens violently or suddenly or unexpectedly. It's their it's their family. It's their support system that's really having to deal with that. And, yeah, you know, part of it is, Donald, this is where the the dark humor comes from in medicine that sometimes is portrayed pretty well in scrubs that that, you know that we're not making fun of people.

We're not making fun of their disease or their process that they're going through. We are, as a defense mechanism, using this kind of dark humor to exactly what you're saying, sort of gird ourselves against this sort of recurrent assault on our emotions. Wow, that sounded pretty good, by the way.

That was great. Oh, my God. You're a natural. You're a natural. Yo, send that straight up to those dudes that did the, he's climbing in your windows. He's not in your people. Send that to them, man.

They can turn that shit into the fire remix. Now, John, your specialty is the electricity in the heart, right? Correct. Yeah. Cardiac electrophysiology. Yeah. Did you ever do heart transplants? In my training, I have seen some heart transplants.

I never did them physically. What I do in my specialty. Say exactly what you do. They have this thing on Reddit called explain it like I'm five. Explain what you do for everyone as though we're, well, we won't say five, as though we're 12 years old. Okay. Cardiac electrophysiology. I treat heart rhythm abnormalities.

And sometimes abnormal heart rhythms can be deadly and so for those i will use catheters uh in the heart to try to redraw the electrical pathways and if we can't if someone's at risk of dying i will implant devices in their heart that will rescue them if they if they have death sudden death so like bionic heart type shit that's a pacemaker no right pacemaker uh there are pacemakers but what i'm talking about are what are called defibrillators yeah defibrillators so it's like a defibrillator that like goes into your body that you carry around with you wow is that a new technology uh probably since the i mean the first implant was probably the late 80s, and it's gotten better ever since.

Oh, back when you and Bill were doing blow. So, yeah, that's a long time. I have another question. I have a question, too, but you go. I know, man, but I just want to ask about hearts. I'm excited. It's fucking real GD, bro. I know, man, but he's talking about hearts now.

I know, but I've got a heart question. You do your heart question. How close are we to freaking artificial hearts man yeah john what the fuck what are you doing where when is when can i live forever man like when can that happen like uh like captain picard what star trek's nerd yeah okay all right john John, John, you're showing, you're showing your inner JD nerd. Donald wants to know, aren't there already artificial hearts? What are you talking about?

Yo, there are, but they're like, but they're not the same from what I understand. The artificial hearts that are out now, like, or it's literally like a tube that does. I don't get,

I don't get it. Why are you answering the question for me? But you're like, so as far as I know, there's like a tube that does i don't get i don't get it why are you answering the question for me because you asked me yeah but you're like so as far as i know there's like a thing with a tube why don't we fucking ask the guy yeah we do have we do have uh mechanical assist devices that help very very weak hearts um and uh that can be used uh as uh as a bridge that can be used as a bridge. They can be used as a bridge until we can get a heart transplant. And I don't know if there are any motorcycle riders listening, but thank you for all of your hearts. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. I got to say this. I got to say this. I got to say this because I was going to segue to the story, but you did it beautifully for me. When I got my motorcycle for the first time, I was so excited and I met a heart surgeon and I was making small talk with him because I we were at a thing and I wanted to say and I was curious. I said, explain to me again. I said, like in layman's terms, how does how does a heart transplant work?

I just don't get it and he goes well after the motorcycle accident we harvest the heart and i was like what now and he's like yeah we call them donor bikes is that true donor cycle yeah yeah donor cycle now is that because they're usually young healthy men it's usually because the motorcycle accident kills people violently usually by head injury um or massive internal bleeding but the heart is fine and so then if you can get to that that person if they're still living uh then you can take them and and harvest harvest their organ how do you harvest the heart wait i have a. How do you harvest the heart? Wait, I have a question. How do you harvest the heart? Let's say someone's in a really bad accident, but they're still alive.

Is it, is it you or someone, I mean, maybe you're, maybe not you specifically these days, but someone has to go, Hey, this isn't looking good. Would you like to donate the heart? Yes. Yes. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing that people do. I am involved with, many of my patients are on the brink of heart transplant. So I do send many patients to heart transplant. And it's a beautiful, beautiful thing that families of very sick people, like maybe someone who had a catastrophic motorcycle accident. And we know the ultimate outcome of that person. And that family says, yes, you know, let's end it now.

Take that heart and get it to that person so that they can survive. What a moving choice. What a powerful choice for that family. Yes, it's beautiful. We should probably go to break. Wait, before we do, I just want to say I have a BMW 9T now for sale. It is a beautiful, beautiful donor cycle that will be up on eBay this afternoon. Yes, Donald, let's go to break.

We'll go to break, and when we come back, we have more Real JD. Bring a little optimism into your life with The Bright Side, a new kind of daily podcast from Hello Sunshine. Hosted by me, Danielle Robay. And me, Simone Boyce. Every weekday, we're bringing you conversations about culture, the latest trends, inspiration, and so much more. I am so excited about this podcast, The Bright Side. You guys are giving people a chance to

shine a light on their lives, shine a light on a little advice that they want to share. Listen to The Bright Side on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search The Bright Side. All that sitting and swiping, our backs hurt, our eyeballs sting. That's our bodies adapting to our technology. But we can do something about it. We saw amazing effects. I really felt like the cloud in my brain kind of dissipated. There's no turning back for me.

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His breakout role was in Fruitvale Station, playing Oscar Grant, which earned him widespread praise and numerous award nominations. His portrayal of Killmonger in Marvel's Black Panther, one of my favorites, further solidified his status as one of Hollywood's leading actors, earning him widespread acclaim for his complex and compelling performance. In our conversation, Michael really opens up. You're going to love listening to it, and I can't wait for you to check it out. The closest to getting what you want is always the hardest. It's always the feeling when you're getting ready. People give up right before they

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What does that mean, made them unlatched? We have a lot of women who tell us they listen to the podcast whilst breastfeeding. If we're too loud, we the babies unlatched. Now, J.D., we want to pivot, if it's okay, to discuss COVID because you are – I'm very impressed with your sports terminology right there. I guess pivot is a sports terminology. When you're playing in the post, you want to be able to catch the ball, pivot, and give a move. I'll give you another analogy, Donald.

Yes. And give a move. I'll give you another analogy, Donald. Let's say we were doing a normal show, and then I call an audible and say, hey, guys, now I want to talk about COVID. Wow. Well, no, that's not exactly what an audible is. An audible would be like, all right, we have a play that's going right now. Yeah, talking to JD about scrubs.

Go ahead. Right. That's going right now. Yeah. Talking to JD about scrubs. Go ahead. Right. And Oh shit. He sees the defense sees the play.

That's coming. Yep. I'm seeing 2000 people die a day. Okay. I need to call an audible, right? We should inform them so we can get this touchdown. Thank you.

Can I just, can I just say that, uh, uh, I did play basketball with Donald once, and I don't know if Donald remembers this. Once, quite a few times I played basketball. Yeah, I guess it was quite a few times. So Bill is a huge, huge basketball player, huge basketball fan,

and he's run the same basketball game for 25 years now. Very competitive game, I understand. Very competitive game. It's the most dangerous game. I saw this man get his jaw. Was it you that got your jaw broke? Bill had his jaw dislocated. Dislocated, yeah.

And you popped it back into place. Well, I popped many fingers back into place. Oh, that's nice if you're there. And a nose, and a nose, right? And a nose. Well, listen. Listen. place oh that's nice if you're there and a nose and a nose right and a nose for years listen he is so kind um that he lets yeah he used to let me play i i have i have since retired from basketball um but he would let me come and play every tuesday knowing that i don't know what I'm doing. Sometimes you play in scrubs too, man, like you have on your scrubs.

Yeah. And I was horrible. I was horrible, and everyone knows it, but he was so kind. And then Donald would come. He would come, and I remember this one game, and you may not remember this. I remember this one game that the first time ever in history I found myself ahead of a breakaway, and somebody threw the ball to me, which never happened. Somebody threw the ball to me, and I just closed my eyes,

and I was running to the back. I threw it up, and it went in. It went in, and everyone's like, oh, yeah, oh, man. He does that breakaway, and Donald, I think you said lucky. I did not say that. I did not say that. That's bullshit. I was known to be a dick when we played basketball.

Donald, Donald. I think I lost a lot of friends. I think the reason why I'm not working more in Hollywood right now is because of my basketball prowess. I got to say that Donald, when he he was playing would become a different person. He became like, not, this is not a joke.

This is fucking serious. Well, he's the real deal. Like, I mean, this was a game of, of actual basketball player, nine actual basketball players and me.

And, and I mean, when Donald played, he was, this is, he was the real deal. We all play. I mean,

we all played, we all played. I was very I mean, we all played. I was very flashy. But we all played very competitive basketball in that thing. All right, listen. Let's segue to J.D. Tell us what your position is at Kaiser Permanente. Because Bill said you're the Kelso of Kaiser Permanente, which, as I understand it, is one of the biggest hospitals in Los Angeles.

Tell us what you do there. Right. So I'm at the Kaiser Los Angeles Medical Center, which is our quaternary hospital. So this is where all of the big specialty care occurs. So it's a very big hospital, a lot of training programs. And I'm a cardiac electrophysiologist here, but I am also an assistant medical director for the medical center. So yes, I have sort of transitioned to a Kelso-esque position. Okay. And are you somehow, or is that just,

does COVID overseeing just come with that position or are you on some special COVID team there? So, right. What comes with the position is we help run our COVID command center locally. So all of our hospitals, 13 hospitals, have COVID command centers because there are questions that come up. How do we move patients from here to there? What do I do? I have a patient in my office. I think they're sick. What do I do with them? And so we have to, we have to, together with a whole team of logistics experts, figure out how to manage this surge of patients that is,

in some places, overwhelming the capacity of hospitals. Currently, our hospital is okay, overwhelming the capacity of hospitals. Currently, our hospital is okay, but we are anticipating more and more patients. So I will put it into context for you. In Southern California for Kaiser, you know, we had about four weeks ago had 200 members who were hospitalized. As of yesterday, 850 hospitalized. So, I mean, in four weeks, it's quadrupled. So, this is not going away unless people take it seriously, unless they use hand hygiene, wear face coverings, avoid congregate settings, social distancing. That will help mitigate it. And we've seen that happen multiple times already since this all started back in March. We had a spike in March. We instituted these mitigation factors, hand hygiene, face coverings, social distancing, and we brought

the number down, right? That's when everyone started talking about flattening the curve, right? That's not a term that anyone ever used before March, right? But now everyone in the grocery store is saying we got to flatten the curve. So that worked. Then the summer came. We got a little complacent. We had another peak. We reinstituted. And we, again, flattened the curve.

And now it's just everywhere because I think a COVID sort of quarantine fatigue. But is it safe to say that in LA County, it's pretty out of control right now? It is out of control and getting worse. The positivity rate is going up. A few months ago, it was down around six or 7%. It's now up, you know, 11, 12, 13% positivity rate. That means the number of swabs that are being done at testing centers,

more and more and more are coming back positive. And so that's a sign that the R-naught is increasing. That is, the infectivity of the pandemic is increasing. And so we really have to take this seriously. If you were in charge, John, if you were the governor, or I should say if you were the mayor of L.A. Let's not put him in a situation where he has to make a decision for one of these. Political? Yeah, I don't want him to. Okay, well, we can skip.

Well, okay. I was just interested to know from a doctor's point of view, I mean, you can answer how you want to answer, John, but should we be in more of a lockdown? i mean england is fully shut down right now yeah that should that's exactly that's a good question that's a good question that's exactly what i was going to say and the way that that i would answer that uh is we really do have to take take what six other successful countries have done and really consider doing that. Look at England, right? Look at Japan, look at South Korea. They've done amazing work in limiting the spread of this disease

because they have huge capacity for testing. They lock down, they mask, they keep social distancing. And so, yeah, I mean, we, we should take that into consideration. I have a question. Okay. If they're doing such a good job though, why is everybody locked down again? You know what I mean? Like, like we're talking about every here's, here's what I don't understand. I can't answer that. Okay. We're supposed to, but if we're supposed to take examples from all of these people, all of these other places, everybody's in the same situation that

we're in. I know, but bro, the government told, I was in the United Kingdom and the government had just told them, okay, great. Don't need to wear a mask outside anymore. Relaxed lots of things. And I was walking around a crowded food market in Notting Hill and the only guy wearing a mask with hundreds of people. And so it's not their fault necessarily. They were told by the government, all right, we're good. No masks outside, no matter what. And then it rocketed back up. Right, JD? Right. Yeah. I think we're past that message now though. I think, right? Aren't we? I think America finally has come to the realization, you know, what's going to work to stop this is masks.

I think even the mask naysayers are like, all right, look, I get it. We need to mask up. This is getting out of control. And if they aren't, and if they aren't, then there's, I can't speak for everybody, but I feel like America's starting to come around to that. They're not. They're not. Not even in la dude just the saddle ranch which is a tourist trap on sunset boulevard decided i know

what we'll do we'll just tent our parking lot and and have however many fucking people there partying that's ridiculous i would drive by it i would drive by it and i just couldn't believe it now finally they closed down outdoor dining. Well, I think – But I don't think anybody – But that's my point. I think right now everybody who was doubting that shit is – if not now, when these numbers come out, and hopefully I'm wrong about this and these numbers aren't high,

and I'm probably going to be wrong about this. You're wrong. I'm telling you, you don't have to finish the sentence. But when these Thanksgiving numbers come out, hopefully everybody understands what... J.D., will you tell him that that's ludicrous? That after all this Thanksgiving travel, we're going to see a huge spike? I am so excited about this podcast, The Bright Side. You guys are giving people a chance to shine a light on their lives, shine a light on a little advice that they want to share.

Listen to The Bright Side on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search the bright side. All that sitting and swiping, our backs hurt, our eyeballs sting. That's our bodies adapting to our technology. But we can do something about it. We saw amazing effects. I really felt like the cloud in my brain kind of dissipated. There's no turning back for me.

Make 2024 the year you put your health before your inbox and take the Body Electric Challenge. Listen to Body Electric from NPR on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, my name is Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. I just had a great conversation with Michael B. Jordan, and you can listen to it right now. Michael is known for his performances in both film and television. His breakout role was in Fruitvale Station, playing Oscar Grant, which earned him widespread praise and numerous award nominations. Black Panther, one of my favorites, further solidified his status as one of Hollywood's leading actors, earning him widespread acclaim for his complex and compelling performance. In our conversation, Michael really opens up. You're going to love listening to it,

and I can't wait for you to check it out. The closest to getting what you want is always the hardest. It's always the feeling when you're getting ready to, you know, people give up right before they get what they always wanted to get. People quit. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine you ask two people the same exact set of seven questions. I'm mini driver. And this was the idea I set out to explore in my podcast, mini Questions. This year we bring a whole new group of guests to answer the same seven questions, including actress and star of the mega hit sitcom Friends, Courtney Cox.

You can't go around it, so you just go through it. This is a roadblock. It's gonna catch you down the road. Go through it. Deal with it. Comedian, writer, and star of the series Catastrophe, Rob Delaney. I shouldn't feel guilty about my son's death. He died of a brain tumor.

It's part of what happens when your kid dies. Intellectually, you'll understand that it's not your fault, but you'll still feel guilty. Alt-rock icon, Liz Phair. That personal disaster wrote Guyville. So everything comes out of a dead end. And many, many more. Join me on season three of Many Questions

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Seven questions, I know that. But I'm saying, I'm hoping that doesn't happen. But I'm saying, can we do all of this by just wearing masks,

washing hands, and social distancing? Will that solve the problem? Yeah. I mean, I think something that Fauci talks about is we tried to flatten the curve back in March, April, and May.

But we never got down low enough to then say, all right, partially open would be wise. Whereas in Europe, they were able to really drive it down to a very, very low, very low rate before they then open things up a little bit. And so, I mean, we're in a bad way right now. It's only getting worse, but we'll get through it. And I would be remiss not to mention that we do have some vaccines coming. Yes, that's a good segue. That's a good pivot to vaccines, because I think the question on it has to be on everyone's mind. When will everyone get it? Now, as I understand it, there's a minimum of three, right, JD, that are that are very exciting. Pfizer, Moderna and another one. AstraZeneca. Can you tell us a little bit about again, please don't get smart cardiologist on us and say it in layman's terms.

Don't get smart cardiologist on us and say it in layman's terms. When is the proximate rollout for this? And understanding that seniors and frontline workers will get it first. But I listened to a podcast. The head of Warp Speed said that he thinks by May, we could start reaching herd immunity, which seemed a little bullish to a novice like me. But can you talk about vaccines for our audience? I will. I will. It's so funny you say that. I just want to back up one second. The writer in the writer's room, as I would start to talk about some whatever medical thing,

I would then get into being Mr. Medical, medicalese, and the writers would start to make fun of me. And so then they started to like make up fake JD words and then call me, text me and say, is thrombophthalesis a real thing? Like, okay, let's talk about vaccines. Yes. We have two vaccines that are being submitted for emergency use authorization to the FDA, Pfizer and Moderna, are closest. They are two-dose vaccines, meaning you have to get one dose

and then three weeks later get a second booster. That might be one negative thing about it, but listen, it's a pandemic. You're going to get two shots. Also, AstraZeneca has also a two-shot vaccine that's quite close. Also, they're getting emergency use authorization. The issue is, will people take it? authorization. The issue is, will people take it? Will the companies have the capacity to make enough? And how will it be distributed? So I think there's one more issue that you're forgetting there, Doc. Yeah. And how does it work with people with autoimmune diseases and stuff like that?

So that's a real issue that they're not that we haven't been discussing. But like, let's say you have an autoimmune disease. Let's say you have HIV. Let's say you have something like that with taking this vaccine. How will that affect your body and how will that affect you as well? So that's that's a great question. And so, for example, the Pfizer vaccine is a is a novel type of vaccine that I think, you know, novel type of vaccine that I think, you know, what Donald is referring to is that some vaccines from the past used live viruses as the vector to either deliver the vaccine or they were live attenuated viruses of the thing you were trying to protect against so that it couldn't infect you, but it was the actual virus. And so people who were immunocompromised on chemotherapy, they couldn't take those because their immune system wouldn't, uh, uh, could get overwhelmed. The Pfizer virus is what's called an mRNA virus. I don't know if

I want to get into the, the, uh, no, keep it, keep it for 11 year olds.olds, doctor. Yeah, so the Pfizer virus is a novel virus that lets the body make the protein that our immune system then fights against. So it doesn't make the virus. There's nothing contagious about it. So it's really safe in that way. But again, it's just two shots. and but again it's it's there's two shots and the thing the downside with one of the downsides of the Pfizer virus is that it has to be shipped and kept very very cold and there aren't very many people very many companies that make these freezers that keep things at negative 94 degrees so that might be one one problem the Moderna is a similar vaccine. It doesn't have to be kept as cold.

It is also a two-shot series. And then the AstraZeneca, I think people have real hopes for sort of the world in general, for certainly the third world, because it doesn't have to be kept cold. Because that's a real problem for countries that wouldn't have access to these super freezers and electricity and all of that. Right. And it's cheaper. So that might be a real answer. In terms of the capacity, what I have heard is that Pfizer said they'll have about 30 to 40 million doses by the end of the year. That means by the end of this month,

by the end of December. And so again, it's a two-shot vaccine. So that would be enough to cover about 20 million people. The government has come out with guidelines on who to vaccinate first, second, third. But they are not mandating that. They are letting states define that. But in general, I think the rubric that most states are taking is healthcare professionals and the most at-risk patients, people over 65, people with chronic health issues, transplant patients who are really, really at risk patients, people over 65 with, you know, people with chronic health issues who

are transplant patients who are really, really at risk, uh, for, for bad outcomes related to, to COVID infection will be sort of that first wave. And it just so happens that if you look at all healthcare professionals in the country, um, physicians, nurses, LVNs, MA, all of the health care professionals, that's about 20 million people. And again, there was a study, unfortunately, recently, a questionnaire survey that about 60% of physicians said they would take it. But that means that 40% wouldn't. And only about 40% of nurses said that they would take it. So there's going to be – I have a dumb question.

Wouldn't you as a hospital and your administrator be able to say you can't come to work without it? I understand you can't force John Q. Citizen to take a vaccine. But if you're an administration, you say if you want to work here as a medical personnel, you have to be. Isn't that possible? Right, right. Making it a stipulation of employment is something that is being discussed now. Again, we are a very union-heavy state. So that's going to be a political issue, whether you can make it a stipulation of

employment. Well, but, you know, people have questions when it comes to this. You know, they're talking about how it's 90% effective and everything like that. But what else is it? What else does it do? Like, I'm making a joke here, but will my kids grow? You know what I mean? Will they go through puberty if they take the vaccine? You know what I mean? There's a bunch of things. I'm a 46-year-old man. If I get the vaccine, will I live to be 80 still? You know what I mean? Not that that's a possibility. I mean, anything's possible. Well, I think it's good, Donald. But you know what I mean? There's so many things that... What's the long-term effect when it comes to this? Yeah, Donald brings up, I think think an important thing that's an elephant in the room that we have to address that a lot of people

are understandably concerned not even anti-vaxxer people who are just like you guys sped through this thing and you made it and and of course we we at least on this podcast trust scientists and we but you know you'd have to be a bit naive to not go, is this okay? Yeah, no, for sure. It's a great point, Donald. And I think that people have had fears of vaccines going all the way back. I will put one thing into context. So for example, that I do want to make a pitch for getting your flu shot this year, the flu vaccine, and I'll use that as a as as an example. So some people say the same, you know, have the same reservation about about the flu vaccine. It's a different vaccine. I understand

that. But listen, if the flu vaccine had some weird weird crazy side effects in the last 10 years we've given 1.8 billion doses of flu vaccine 1.8 billion doses of flu vaccine and we haven't seen any weird crazy side effects it's a safe vaccine it's been around for a while so like the science is there that it still works this is something that's only been around for literally two months a month and a half not even a month it's not even out yet right how do we how do we trust that right you make you make a really good point i'm gonna get a little a little sciency here um so yeah so the flu vaccine uh has uh four different strains of proteins that are specific to four different strains of influenza virus. It's not the virus itself. It can't give you influenza.

But those proteins are then injected into the body and your body makes immunity to those proteins so that when a virus, when an influenza virus goes in there, it has that that protein your immune system can get it that's how standard vaccinations work so this is similar to that the Pfizer vaccine has your body create that little piece of protein and then your your immune system creates memory so that if in fact a COVID virus particle gets in there it already already recognizes it and it keeps you keeps it from overwhelming the body. So, yes, influenza vaccine has been around for a long time. It's not exactly the same vaccine that the same virus from from 1918 pandemic. However, it's the same idea. It's the same idea. So thanks for bringing that up.

But in terms of safety of vaccination, we know that vaccination is safe. Yes, this is new. So I understand everyone has a concern of long-term safety because Pfizer had about 45,000 patients. Moderna had about 35,000 patients. So yeah, it's a fairly small sample size in terms of the world, but it's a good sample size for a study, for a vaccine study. And there have not been any safety concerns, really. Am I correct? You're saying something that I didn't fully digest, and correct me if I'm wrong, that it's the same concept as the flu vaccine, just with different things because it's COVID. It's the same concept, yes, that a vaccine works in that in the flu vaccine, we give you a piece of a protein that's on the influenza virus and your body recognizes that protein. Now it has memory for that.

And so when an actual influenza gets in, it sees that protein and it attacks the virus. The same idea for vaccination for COVID. There are some candidate vaccines that just inject the little spike protein into you doing the same thing as influenza. This new mRNA type virus, this novel type virus that Moderna and Pfizer are using, sort of take it one step back. And it says, we don't have to wait to get that protein. We can have the person's body make the protein. So they inject the little piece

of what's called messenger RNA. And our own cells create that protein. Now our immune system recognizes it. So when COVID comes in, so it's the same thing, just one step back. That's a little science-y for people. So sorry about that. Okay. But now if you have an autoimmune system, I know we kind of covered this, but is that a dangerous situation for someone with an autoimmune disease or someone with something that's similar to that? Right. So that's a really good point, Donald.

So say, for example, someone is on chemotherapy and their immune system is really quite weak. Sometimes they have trouble mounting a good immune response in order to to establish memory um in fact for those patients when they come and get the flu shot we give them an extra big dose of it so that their body can really try to try to make it so we'll have to see how that works in those patients i do not believe that immunocompromised patients that you're talking about were part of these studies. And so it's a really, really good point, Donald, because we are, we're, you know, extending sort of making the assumption that it's going to work for everyone, but it might not work, say, for someone who has uncontrolled HIV and their immune system isn't working or on chemotherapy or something like that.

All right. So, J.D., let me ask you something, or as we call you, John, real J.D. You know, when I went in my phone to text you to come on the show, I noticed for the first time, and I haven't texted you in many years, but I noticed for the first time that you were in my phone as John Dorian. And not making a joke. I literally just put you in my phone as John Dorian. Well, I remember that you even truncated, I don't know what season it was. I remember you started calling me Real JD on the set pretty early on. And then you just truncated it to Real. So it just eliminated my name entirely. Yeah, Sarah Chalk calls you Real all the time.

So last major question. I have a couple more, man. I'm sorry, dude. But I just want to make sure we touch that. Like, correct vitamins and stuff like that, like vitamin, like zinc and stuff like that. Are things like that effective against this virus, like zinc, vitamin D, you know? Right, so early on, Donald, you know, people were in a a panic and they were grasping at straws and someone would say zinc works or Clorox works and our president would say shove a light in your butt and that will work. And so they really glommed on to anything.

I tried that. I tried that, by the way. Did you try it? Yeah. Light in a beer bottle? I, I have a beer bottle. I didn't use the beer bottle. I just said I have a small table lamp and it felt nice, but I didn't feel it. I didn't feel it immunized. But there have been some studies about vitamin supplements. There have been studies of medicine medication called remdesivir. There have been some some studies of some different things. Nothing has really, really come out.

It's really just supportive care for people. There are some ongoing studies about monoclonal antibodies, which are a way of passive immunity. That is, your body makes antibodies to fight viruses. Well, the thought is, why don't we give antibodies that are already made to people who have the virus already that's called using monoclonal antibodies that's that regeneron right that's regeneron yeah yeah yeah uh and so that's under that's under investigation as well yeah so there are there are some some things under investigation but those are different let's cut to the chase if i'm a listener on this audience and I'm not a senior over 65 and I'm not an essential worker and I'm not a doctor, I'm not in a nursing home.

I'm a 45 year old, for example. You're probably thinking, when roughly, if things go well, when roughly might I have access to a vaccine? I know that the head of Warp Speed said May-ish. I wondered if you thought that was real or too bullish. What are your thoughts? I think that they're getting that from the manufacturers who are saying, we can have this many by the end of the year. We can have this many by the end of the year. We can have this many by, you know, the first quarter and we can

have this many by the summer. And, you know, by the end of 2021, they're talking about having over a billion, over a billion doses. So, yeah. So I think that that he that they are they are taking that uh extrapolating it to about may is when they would initiate sort of the phase three so phase one or is whom we talked about phase two would be essential workers firemen policemen teachers you know that and then the the population that you were just referring to zach would be sort of the last big population, and they would start to get immunized around May. That's sort of what I heard the same estimate. Okay, one last question. I swear, this is it.

If you have the vaccine, can you still spread the virus? Okay, Donald, that's a really good question. And it's something that we don't know exactly because the data that came back from the studies from Pfizer and Moderna said, look, we are 95% effective at preventing someone from getting sick from COVID. And it did not study, it did not look at whether someone who is vaccinated could still be an asymptomatic carrier. So then how can we talk about herd immunity if we can't guarantee that this is something that can't spread after a virus? Yes, yes. I don't have an answer

for that because I don't think that was studied. I don't know if everyone understands what herd immunity is. The idea of herd immunity is once about 70% of a population is resistant to a virus, then the virus has a hard time finding its next victim. And it then is unable to continue its infections. And it sort of, it peters out at that point. We have never had natural herd immunity. So I know that people have heard in the beginning of the pandemic, they said, oh my gosh, Sweden is going for natural immunity. They're just telling everyone to go out and do their thing and get sick and we'll wait for natural herd immunity. Humans have never, there's no example that I know of that humans have achieved natural herd immunity. The only herd immunity that we've ever achieved is through vaccination.

So that's why smallpox is no longer a problem because we created herd immunity and it's now extinct. That shit sounds like the Hunger Games, man. We're going to go natural herd immunity. What does that mean? What does that mean? We're just going to let everybody get together and the survival of the fittest. Right, right, right, right.

Lastly, JD, I just wanted you to tell everyone that, because I had heard this, but they should hear it from a real doctor, not a fake doctor, that the vaccines are just kind of going to be, you get what's available, right? Because people shouldn't start to go to their doctor and like, no, I want Moderna, because it's not going to be like that, right? You're going to get it at your right end of your Walgreens, just like you would the flu shot, I'm told, but you're just going to get the one that happens to be available. You're not going to be able to select it, correct? I think in general, that's probably true because we're certainly in the beginning, there's going to be such a limited number of doses. We're really going to have to be careful about who is getting it, who we're giving it to. And then eventually, if, you know, vaccinating the entire population of the world,

that is a huge undertaking. And like you said, it's going to be whatever we can up manufacture enough to start giving out. And it's going to be whatever countries can get their hands on. Nations are already bidding uh there's bidding wars for for guaranteed numbers of doses and so it's just whatever whatever the country is getting what what month would you guess that you and dolly could safely with no concerns go to the movies oh well we're we're being pretty careful we're being pretty careful. We're being pretty careful.

I'm just, okay, let's say a typical cautious cardiologist and his beautiful wife. Yes. When would you go to the movie theater and be like, I have no concerns? Oh, boy. I would say fourth quarter 2021, first quarter 2022. Ooh, Donald, what about all our blockbusters you heard it here first people settle into Netflix go ahead

so let's say you've had COVID already do you still recommend getting the good question Donald you are question fire you know why he's on fire by the way i'm not to not to not to not to he finally fucking did his homework he did more homework for this for your interview than he's ever done for anybody else i want you to know it's a really excellent question that again was not studied uh in in any of the studies because those patients were checked to see if they already

have immunity or already have antibodies in their blood. And so we don't know what that is. I would suspect, you know, I really do advocate for the flu shot. I want every listener to go get the flu shot. Even if you think you've had the flu already, there are multiple strains of influenza. And so unlike the COVID vaccine, the influenza vaccine protects you against four strains. And for every year, we get a peak of influenza A and then a peak of influenza B. And so if you've had A, you can still get B. And so we always tell people, even if you've had influenza, get your flu shot every year. And this year especially, I just want to warn everyone, there is some data out of China that co-infection does happen.

If you can get, your kid can come home from whatever they're doing, congregate, whatever they're doing and give you influenza, your job, you can get COVID and you can be infected together. Co-infection has a much, much, much worse outcome than, than just a single infection with either one. So we already have a vaccine for one of them. Go get your flu shot. You just mentioned something, you talked about kids and everything like that. So we, in California uh kids are still allowed to meet up and go play and stuff like that um i'm told that they don't get sick from the virus but they can still contract the virus and pass it on to us so why are we still allowing i mean i personally for my's mental health I'm willing, I get it, I'm willing to risk, alright, I could die, this is something that could

happen, it's very scary, I'm not gonna lie to you, this is something that I freaking have nightmares about often sending my kid back to school and him or her coming home with the virus and giving it to myself my wife or my other children.

And one of us being the, you know, the majority, not the majority, the minority in America right now that perishes or gets very, very, very, very sick. So like one, why is it that we're still saying, okay, let the kids, i think it's because peace of mind and letting the kids mental health grow and you know sacrificing yourself for the future and everything you know it's not it's the song i believe the children are future it's that song you know what i mean but we're talking about masks and everything like that but we're you know yeah i don't know i just i we're letting the kids play sports we're letting the kids do all types of things are we are we playing let him

answer it's a really it's a really great point uh and i will tell you i just want to put it into context and again influenza is a great prototype that people understand because we go through an epidemic of influenza every year. We know that kids are the super spreaders of influenza. We know that they get it and spread it at school and bring it home to their families. For some reason, and I do not know the answer why, it is felt that maybe they are not as much super spreaders of COVID. And there are all sorts of theories why they don't have as much ACE2 receptors or whatnot. I was going to say, I was going to say it might be the ACE2 receptors. Yeah.

But and they they tend to do well in terms if they do get sick, they tend not to be the ones who have severe illness. That is not to say that we have not had children with severe illness, children with multiple, you know, MIS-C, multiple organ inflammatory diseases after, much like Kawasaki's disease. It's not to say that all kids are immune to it. And we know that teenagers are more like adults. So I'm a little bit confused about our attitude towards it because we know that teenagers get it. We know that they get sick and we know that they spread it. And so we can't generalize them into the same category as quote unquote kids. So what's the cutoff point that roughly that were kids to teenagers? Yeah, I think they talk about teenagers. So anywhere over 12 or 13, you know, the Pfizer, the Pfizer study,

studied kids over 12. Are your kids, are your kids in, in, are your kids in school or are you home learning? No. Kids are on Zoom school. They're on lockdown. But, you know, I don't know the right answer. I think that you bring up a huge important point, and that is that the mental health, the development of kids, the education of kids, the tech inequity of kids, the food inequity in our society that some kids are really suffering. So it's a huge problem. Thank you.

Thank you. Amen. But it really is important that there are other psychosocial advantages of kids being back in school or back together, back congregate. And we have to find a way. We have to find a way to do that. And I don't have an answer. Well, on that note, I want to thank you so much because this, seriously, this has been incredibly informative. We had the fun of talking about your involvement with the show.

And it was just so, so helpful that you, we have someone who's so knowledgeable about all these things. And I really, really want to thank you for your time because I know that you're a busy man. Well, I just want to thank you guys. This was so fun for me. I was so excited. And I really didn't sleep well last night because I was nervous. But I love the fact that you're like heading the COVID response at Kaiser Permanente and you didn't sleep because of coming on our stupid podcast. You know what,

Joelle, we might have to send him one of these onesies. Now, Doc, would you wear a onesie like this? I was wondering what is I would definitely wear that. This is an official fake doctor's real friends onesie. And I think that Joelle will make sure we gift you one as a thank you gift for coming on the show i'm gonna warn you let's get him an xl because i my i if you if you get a large a little small doc as you can see i don't know if it's a medical term but i have a moose that is not what i wanted to see today okay i just want to thank you guys i always had so much fun with you guys on the set and this is so great that that i was able to to come on here i will come back we'd love to have you back i'll come on anytime joelle let's pick an episode that um that has a has a complicated medical thing that might confer of interest to people. I'll confer with our podcast owner, Bill. Oh my God, Joelle, don't you start

with that joke, Joelle. That joke is not funny. I can't believe she just said that. I know, I feel like I could cry like they're welling, but they're not overflowing the lid yet. I think we should focus on something that has to do with the heart so he can get really deep into...

Matters of the heart. And what do you call them? Donor cycles. That's right. I will tell you that Bill said to me last night, if they're being mean, just text me and I will call in on that show. No, we're never mean. We love our guests. We love our fans.

Hey, listeners, we hope this was informative. This is not a political thing. I know some of you get upset when Don and I get political. This is not political. This is about keeping everyone safe. And believe it or not, we genuinely care about your health and the well-being of you and your family. And I'm just so lucky. We feel so lucky that we had John here to impart some wisdom. So John, we do a thing here on the podcast. Have you ever listened to the podcast before? It's okay if you haven't. You're a busy man.

I listened last night for the first time. Okay, good. So as you know, we count out, like count into a song, five, six, seven, eight. Would you do us the honor of counting out into our ending song? Wait, before we get into that, I just want everybody out there to know, don't think we're deaf and we don't understand that, you know, the importance of money and the importance of the economy and everything like that i know we were very covid heavy in this and we didn't necessarily get into the other side of things on why you know what uh what america

what other americans feel like they need out there but i will say this john when uh we started this show we wanted the theme song to be like loved by everyone so when you say five six seven eight today you have to come at it with some like uh energy that you know it has to be real energy it can't just be some timid, I didn't sleep last night because I was nervous about coming on to the podcast energy. Exactly. You got to come with it. It needs the energy of, nurse, get the fucking crash card in here now. Right. It needs that energy.

It needs that, he's coding. Yeah, it needs the code blue sprinting to your third code vote. Code blue sprinting to your third code vote. It needs like the executive, the co-executive, what is it, the chief of medicine, whatever. It needs that type of energy. Co-chief. He's the co-chief.

The co-chief. It needs that co-chief energy when you're talking to your interns, when you're teaching your interns. Okay. Are you ready, John? I'm ready. It's a 5, 6, 7, 8 type of thing, though. Remember, 5, 6, 7, 8. Like Debbie Allen.

Debbie Allen. In rhythm, John. You ready? Yeah. You ready? 5, 6, 7, 8. Here's some stories about a show we made About a bunch of doctors and nurses in a Canada who love to hate

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