Fake Doctors, Real Friends with Zach and Donald - Real Doctor Special with Dr. Jonathan Fader

Episode Date: March 31, 2023

As you know, Zach's released a new film. A Good Person came into being through the real-life grief Zach navigated during the pandemic. Channeling the loss of his sister, his father, and his good friend Nick, he explores the idea of what it means to stand back up after being knocked down. Dr. Fader, Zach's therapist and coach, played an instrumental role in helping Zach complete the script. On this very special episode, Zach talks to Dr. Fader about how he helps some of the biggest sports stars and performers change how they think about themselves, and how they react to negative thoughts. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hi friends, I'm Danielle Robay. And I'm Simone Boyce. And we're here to introduce you to The Bright Side, a new kind of daily podcast that's guaranteed to light up your day. Every weekday, we're bringing you conversations about culture, the latest trends, inspiration, and so much more.

We'll hear from celebrities, authors, experts, and listeners like you. Whether it's relationships, friend advice, or figuring out how to navigate life's transitions, big and small, we'll talk through it together. Listen to The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine every weekday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Raquel Willis. Join me on my new podcast, Queer Chronicles, a show where LGBTQ plus folks tell their own stories in their own words. This season, teens will share all about growing up in political battleground states. We will always exist and we will definitely not let them take away our joy, no matter how hard they try. Listen to Queer Chronicles on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your most fabulous shows. my family, my career. I'm also going to be talking a lot about cancer, the ups and the downs, everything that I've learned from it. It's going to be a wild ride. So listen to Let's Be Clear with Shannon Doherty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I got to tell y'all, Gather round to hear our, gather round to hear our Scrubb's Rewatch Show with Zach and Donald.

I got to tell y'all, I got this song in my head, and you're going to love it. It's an old standard. Joelle, I know you're going to feel it. I can't stop singing it. Ready or not, here I come. You can't hide. Gonna find you and take it slowly Yes

Fuji's Ready or Not, it never goes out of style, Joelle I've been singing it all morning Whole album still hits You know when you got a song in your head Do you guys wake up with a song in your head? Sometimes, yeah, absolutely I was gonna say sometimes Certainly have

I very often will wake up and i'll just be like ready or not here i come it's not always that song but maybe i was dreaming about it or something but this morning i woke up my dog licked my face and i was just like you can't hide gonna find you he said you're ready you can't run away from these tears i've got oh baby i gotta make sure the lyrics right hold on i looked them up because i did not want to mess up yeah i don't think you got one wrong yet wait wait wait i i looked it up because by the way for those you don't know lauren and i went to high school together lauren was at my bar mitzvah yes lauren there's a bar mitzvah game you call called coke Pepsi, which is basically just kids running around the dance floor,

but you have to have a partner. And Lauren was my Coke and Pepsi partner at my bar mitzvah. So just so you know, this runs deep. I want to get that one part she sings. You can't run away from these styles I got. Oh, baby. Hey, baby. Because I got a lot.

Oh, yeah. Anywhere you go. That's too high. Any. Oh, yeah. Anywhere you go. That's too high. Anywhere, anywhere, anywhere you go. My whole crew gonna know. Oh, baby. Hey, baby, you can't hide from the block. All right, listen.

Donald's not here today, guys. So I had to do the loud singing. So I'm done. We appreciate it. The audience who hates singing, that section is now over. The quote I just wrote. Who hates singing?

Oh, no. No, I just don't know. You know, listen, people hate everything. So I once saw a video on YouTube. I once saw a video on YouTube that was, to this day, one of the sweetest things I've ever seen in my life. It was a father playing guitar,

singing with his probably four-year-old. And they like new harmonies. And it brings a tear to my eye thinking of it and there were like this is back when they would show downvotes there were like thousands of downvotes and I was like if that isn't the ultimate example wow haters I hate joy that's the inner web Swift was right. The interwebs. But somebody was like, took the time to be like, this adorable father and toddler singing to themselves.

Nope. Thumbs down. Not entertaining to me. Just wow. Rude as hell. Well, let me explain to the audience what's happening. We're doing a special episode today. Donald, don't worry, kids. Mommy and daddy audience what's happening. We're doing a special episode today. Donald, don't worry, kids.

Mommy and Daddy aren't getting divorced. We're not breaking up. Our friend Donald is shooting his new show, and he's loving it, and it's amazing, and he's having the best time, and he's getting that work, and so we're so happy for him. But I felt like we hadn't done a show. We did the Florence one, which was so well received. Thank you for all the love on that one. But we were going to be off this week. And I just said to Joelle and Joelle said to me, we were like, let's do something. And so I came up with an idea kind of inspired by Jonah Hill and his amazing doc studs, which you haven't seen is

really good, where he brings his therapist on and sort of talks and shares some of what he's gotten from his therapist and just sort of shared the information. His was done in a very artful documentary way, but I thought we are called fake doctors, real friends. I do have a coach psychologist who's helped me with a lot of my life and And I'm certainly is the reason I was able to write this movie. And, um, I just thought we could have them on and I'll shoot the shit. And it could just be a conversation about mental health. It could be a conversation about anything,

anything we want it to be. Joelle and Dale, I want you guys to participate and steer it wherever you want. Awesome. What do you think? What do you think about that? Very here. Of course.

Did you hear, uh, the doc is in, here uh the doc is in bring in the doc there he is there we go hi look at this the whole team yes so uh dr fader meet uh daniel goodman and joelle monique hello daniel and joelle nice to meet you both how's it going dr fader happy Fader? Happy to have you. Nice to meet you, Dr. Fader. Welcome to the program. So as I was saying to the audience, you know, we don't have Donald because he's working. And I really wanted to thank you, the audience, from the bottom of my heart. The audience response to A Good Person has been just monumental. I think it currently has a 95% audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes, which is just pretty unheard of and rare. And this audience, you guys who are listening, guys and gals, have been with me the whole journey.

If you've been listening to this podcast, I started writing this when we started this podcast. And so I really have a journal in the sense of an audio journal of my process. The whole time I was doing this podcast, I was writing this movie. So it feels so great to share it with you. And also I just thought I would go a little bit, the idea behind this podcast, since we don't have Donald and can't do an episode of Scrubs, was to put out something and talk a little bit about the process of writing it. And I thought, who better to have on than Dr. Fader? Because I couldn't have done this without him. And so much

of the things that I'm accomplishing in my life, I couldn't have done without him. And I first met him about seven years ago, I believe. There's a very successful person in my life who will obviously remain anonymous who was just killing it and not only was he killing it but he always seemed happy and i was like what the fuck is wrong with this guy and he was killing it in his career he's killing it in his relationships he was happy always happy and i said bro what is the secret? And he said, well, lots of things, lots of work. But also, I really recommend my coach, my psychologist, Dr. Jonathan Fader. And so we started working together.

And I don't know what to say. I mean, I have plenty to say. But I just want to welcome you to the show, dude. Hey, thanks, man. And thanks for all those kind words. I genuinely feel that this is something that we've done fully together. And I think your courage and the hard work that you put in, I mean, this is hard work to change yourself.

And it's hard work to get started. It's hard work in the middle. And it's hard work all the way through. And you've worked really hard. Well, I couldn't have done it without you. And I, and I, I guess I want to just say, you know, will you explain just for, you know, some people on this podcast are familiar with different types of therapy and some don't know anything about it. Some have it in their lives. Some it's been, you know, it's looked down upon in their families. You know, we have people who listen from all over the world and from all walks of life. So will you just generally explain to the layman what the

difference is between a traditional psychologist or traditional, I think of old school therapy, but, and then what you call what you do, which is being a cognitive behaviorist, because, And then what you call what you do, which is being a cognitive behaviorist. And I've been in therapy since I was a little kid and seen all sorts of therapists because I had OCD, as I've shared on here, and depression and anxiety. But I really feel like I started to make some – and all of that's been helpful. I don't mean to minimize any of it. But I really feel like I started to make some larger shifts when I started working with you and your style of working. So can you explain that in basic terms for people? Yeah. I think that most people have a misunderstanding about what therapy is

to begin with. And that just because of watching The Sopranos or watching the show, you begin to think, hey, this is really about, not the killing part, but you begin to think that this is only about the past. It's about understanding your past and going really deep psychologically into who people are. And this comes from the history. It's Freud. It's the beard. It's the pipe. It's lying on a couch. But that way of doing things, that old school way has really evolved over the years. And the kind of therapy that I do is based in cognitive collaborative way, changing thoughts. As we were saying before, too, it's not just a one-person kind of thing where someone just talks. We talk together. And so it's much more like coaching where you're jumping in,

you're thinking together about which thoughts work. We tell ourselves these stories. We're all from birth, right? As soon as we learn to talk, we tell ourselves stories about ourselves. And this work is really about examining those stories, seeing which stories work and which don't, and then how in a partnership, you begin to change those stories so your life begins to resemble the story that you want. That's so well said. And it jumps right into what I want to say is one of the biggest things I've got out of working with you and the readings I've done is that you're going to make up stories,

an experience happens, and then your brain instantly goes to work making up a story and an interpretation of what just happened. And if you're an anxious, depressive person, that could instantly go to worry and negativity and the worst possible interpretation of that experience. But one just totally made all that up and instantly accepted it as the truth. No, absolutely. I mean, as you know, I work with exceptional performing artists and like the one hosting this show, but I work with a lot of athletes, tons of athletes. You know, I've worked for many years in major league baseball and NFL. One of the stories I wrote about in my book is exactly what you're talking about. You know, there's a pitcher who's in the major leagues for the first time, first time in the big show.

He's up there, he's pitching. And all of a sudden he notices that his pitching coach looks a little bit disturbed. He just sees it in, in just sees it in in in you know down in the dugout and he's up there and he's starting to think about like what is this guy what is he thinking about right now he's just looking totally you know he's really suspicious of me he's he's got all these stories going in his head and he actually kind of gives up a home run has a terrible outing comes back into the dugout and the pitching coach is saying, hey, you doing all right? He's like, yeah, but part of it is just like your attitude towards me. He's like, dude, I've had terrible gas all day. I don't know what it was, the burritos last night.

So, you're right, man. We have this constant story that we tell ourselves and it's very evolutionary, right? I mean, no one gives you the handbook on what it means to be a human, right? We learn it along the way. And so CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, and to some degree, you know, performance psychology, it's all about giving people a better manual about how to live as a human, how to change your thoughts, how to interpret stories in a different way. We need training on this. I know, and you obviously never get a manual. We learn – none of this is taught in school. In my school, we had to take – we had to learn – I always reference proofs as the dumbest thing I learned because it was like – and I know some kids needed to be exposed to mathematical proofs to go on and

be math geniuses. But I remember learning like, therefore by the associative property, whatever the fuck it was being like this, my time would be so much more valued with a communications course. And actually my high school, I'm sure it's long gone, but in the early nineties had a one communications class. And I, I remember thinking, I even at the time thinking like this is pretty progressive for a public high school. And it was amazing. It was, it was about sharing.

It was about listening. It was about all this stuff. And most kids, my, my, this is my, me rambling going so much of what I've learned and, and,

and, and late in life, it would be so valuable. I always think when I have some Eureka moment with you or with a book I'm like, oh, my gosh, imagine I knew this in high school. Imagine someone exposed me to this in my teens, how much easier I could have navigated all my emotions and all my insecurity. You know? Yeah. And there's something, you know, I mean, Zach, it's really, it's interesting you're saying that because there is some movement towards that.

Like there's a whole social and emotional learning that's happening a little bit more in school. But I agree with you. I mean, I agree with you. I think that fundamentally, what we need to learn is how to understand our emotions and how to understand our thoughts and feelings. And we don't really learn that, right? We spend a lot of time learning things that aren't that valuable, those proofs you're never going to use again. But wow, if people just learned how to listen better to other people, if that's what was taught, like if you were taught

how to empathize and how to listen, which is a really hard skill to learn because we all listen to reply. And also how to, I mean, one of the most powerful things I got out of all of this is like that interpretation, that negative thought you're having is not the truth. And it's not even who you are. It's just this trigger response to an event. And in my case, because I'm a worrier and I'm anxious and I have OCD, the trigger response is negativity and worry and fear. of OCD, the trigger response is negativity and worry and fear. And I've been learning with you that that's just totally the web you spun. The facts of what happened are X. The fact is the pitching coach looked like he was frowning. That is a fact fact but my experience of it is he's saying i suck he's squirming he thinks i suck everyone in this fucking stadium thinks i suck i do suck why am i here i

shouldn't be here and then of course the next day you learn he just had gas i mean i do that every i do that a thousand times a day i mean even with the work i'm doing i'm actually trying to work on this i'm obviously catching myself now but i'm, it's still a trigger response. Do you know what I mean? No, I absolutely. And that's, what's so great about, you know, you talking about it and being open about it. Cause you know, everybody listening does that, uh, you know, it's evolutionary, you know, we all have this negative bias. It was, it, it, it grew because humans need to be negative in order to survive. Let's take a break. We'll be right back after these fine words.

When you find that bright spot to help you get through your day, it's powerful. That's where The Bright Side comes in. A new daily podcast from Hello Sunshine that's bringing you a daily dose of joy. I'm Danielle Robay. And I'm Simone Boyce. Listen, both Danielle and I are reporters. We've covered the news and we know the world can feel heavy, but the Bright Side podcast is a space to have a little fun, to learn something new and get into some friendly debates. That's right. Join us

five days a week to see how life can look from the bright side. We'll hear from celebrities, authors, experts, and listeners like you. Whether it's relationships, friend advice, or figuring out how to navigate life's transitions, we'll talk through it all together. Listen to The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine every weekday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine you ask two people the same exact set of seven questions. I'm Minnie Driver, and this was the idea I set out to explore in my podcast, Minnie Questions. This year, we bring a whole new group of guests to answer the same

seven questions, including actress and star of the mega hit sitcom Friends, Courtney Cox. You can't go around it, so you just go through it. This is a roadblock. It's going to catch you down the road. Go through it. Deal with it. Comedian, writer, and star of the series Catastrophe, Rob Delaney. I shouldn't feel guilty about my son's death. He died of a brain tumor. It's part of what happens when your kid dies.

Intellectually, you'll understand that it's not your fault, but you'll still feel guilty. Old rock icon, Liz Phair. That personal disaster wrote Guyville. So everything comes out of a dead end. And many, many more. Join me on season three of Many Questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

Seven questions, limitless answers. Professional dancer Cheryl Burke has been part of Dancing With The Stars since the very beginning. 26 seasons of the samba, the rumba, and the cha-cha. 24 partners, six finals, and two mirrorball trophies. She knows all the secrets, the behind-the-scenes arguments, and the affairs, the secrets the behind the scenes arguments and the affairs the flings the flirting and the fighting it's time to tell all on her new podcast sex lies and spray tans will take you all the way back to season one and up through today for the dance floor drama like you wouldn't believe former partners co-stars, and frenemies will join Cheryl each week. Listen to Sex, Lies, and Spray Tans on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So the rule of threes is a really interesting rule. It's about survival. How long can you survive without food? Do you want to take a guess? Like three days, right? You can survive longer, actually. You can survive. You're actually thinking about water. You can survive for three weeks, but you're right. It's three days without water, and it's three minutes without air. So three weeks without food, three days without water, three minutes without air, basically. Right. And so you're you really we have this conception that we need that those things, but we can survive longer. But how long can you survive if you fail to recognize a predator in your environment?

If you don't notice something dangerous, how long will you survive? Could be no time at all. No time at all. You're dead. You're dead. So if you think about how our brains evolve, they evolve to notice the thing that was wrong. That's how we're built.

We're built to notice the thing that's wrong. When I give a talk, I mean, you know, or give a talk to a thousand people, whatever, I go up there, the first person I notice is the person looking at their phone. The first person I know. Oh my God, I did a Broadway show, dude. I did a Broadway show and I would perform to 2, 000 people or i don't know something like that and i would i i would see

someone yawn and it would fucking ruin my whole show absolutely absolutely you know that's how we're built one person i'm ignoring the 19 the 1999 people that are but are hopefully enjoying it and i see the one dude yawn and I'm like, I suck. This sucks. We suck. Totally. Right. I mean, that's, and, and that, and that's something that's universal. And so, you know, so the, the way I talk about it and you know, this, you know, is that there are three parts to being a human thoughts, feelings, and actions, and that we spend most of our time focused on feelings when feelings is a thing that we control the least yeah you can't directly if you're feeling shitty and someone

says hey cheer up what do you want to do punch the person in the face right like that's you know the worst thing you could say to someone who's anxious is calm down right yeah you can't yeah you can't you really you just, you can lose your mind. So what are the things that we can affect? We can affect thoughts and we can affect actions. The one thing you directly control is what you do. And so a lot of behavioral therapy is thinking about that with people. And as you know, doing experiments, you know, there's this myth that we have to feel a certain way to act a certain way. And it's just the reverse. By behaving a certain way, you can start to feel a certain way.

And I think that's hard to do without some coaching. Therapy doesn't have to take forever. The myth of sitting on a couch and talking about your past for 10 years. Look, therapy can be really effective done in short duration, in six weeks, in eight weeks, in 12 weeks. If you're really working with someone who's focused with you and who's jumping in and helping you to, as you were saying, examine, right? Put into a record these thoughts. I always tell people when I'm working with them, look, you know, in your head, there's a district attorney and a public defender. Only when we get depressed and anxious, the district attorney is like Harvard trained.

They're ready to go, right? They're ready to attack you every moment, right? Every second, yeah. But you need to beef up that public defender. You need to school them. You need to give them instructions about how to examine these thoughts. You know, humans have these two errors that we jump to. One is blowing things out of proportion.

And the other one is jumping to conclusions. And so as we were talking about before, what a great coach, a great therapist is going to help you do is to examine the evidence and put things in perspective. The more you do that, you know, you're going to have a different relationship to the events in your life. As the famous quote says, things are not as they are. They are as we are. Yeah, I love that. I love that. I also feel like, you know, and some of this, by the way, not to plug shrinking, but some of this is happening in shrinking.

If you're watching shrinking, there's a running joke called boop, where they refer to it as a pattern interrupt. And what I got out of that is you can change the way you're being with someone instantaneously and, and they can't help but shift. It's almost like in tennis. If you, if you, if you hit the ball cross court, the opponent has to, has to, there's no choice has to shift to the other side of the court. And are you impressed, Doc?

I'm in a sports analogy. I'm really impressed. By the way, I didn't realize, I didn't realize until last night in the bath, as I was thinking, where I have my greatest revelations,

I was like, how funny is it that of all of the therapists in the world, I have a sports psychologist as my, but, but,

the irony is like, neither of us, neither of us have credibility in that department. Why you're, you're not an athlete. I'm terrible. That's, I think that's the thing that makes me,

weren't you like the, weren't you like the psychologist for the giants? I was a psychologist for the New York Mets for nine years and the New York giants for two years. Yeah. So that's amazing that you don't know anything about sports. I mean, I know about it,

but I can't, I mean, the most embarrassing thing is, you must need to know more than I I mean, I know about it, but I can't, I mean, the most embarrassing thing is having a, you must need to know more than I know. Cause I just know like you're trying to get the ball with the bat as far as possible. I mean, I think where I needed my own,

own techniques is when I was asked to play catch with these guys, like on the field and they saw what I was really made of. Oh my God. That's funny. Um, but, um, this idea of a pattern interrupt that you can change who you're being.

And like the, the person that, if I hit cross court, the guy has to, the guy or gal has to move to the other side of the court. Well, in micro ways, you can do that anytime you choose in your life. You've been, let's say you've been reacting to a certain person's behavior. This, your go-to reaction is, is, is a certain way. And then you try a pattern drop and you just change who you're being in that in that relationship and they have to move to the other side of the court because your reaction is different do you know what i mean can you

explain that more particularly than i just did no i think you're explaining it well i mean you know marshall linehan who's a really uh you know, an innovator in the field, she has a quote where she says, like, you can't think yourself into a new way of acting. You have to act yourself into a new way of thinking. And I think a pattern disrupt, the way we talk about that is an experiment. And what I find to be really effective is, you know, once you start to do experiments in your life, right? Once you start to do experiments in your life, right? You know, once you start to try something that's different, you get a different result and that result is reinforcing. There's nothing more powerful than reinforcement.

When we do something, the pattern disrupt works because usually when you do a different action, you have a different result. And if that result is reinforcing, it's really powerful and it makes you want to do it more. That just lights me up so much because I want our audience to hear something that's so powerful. That's instantaneous. That's not years of therapy. That's something it might take courage in your situation. It definitely might take vulnerability in your situation.

definitely might take vulnerability in your situation, but it's literally something you can do instantaneously, which is I no longer will accept just making an example, you talking to me that way, the way that you're talking to me is no longer acceptable. And my reaction to it will now be why, even though for a decade it's been X. And of course that takes courage. This is all about courage and vulnerability. That's the theme of the whole, all of working on yourself. But it is something you can notice instantaneously, right, Doc? Absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, to use the shrinking term, you know, it is trying those boops in your life. You know, you're worried about, you know, what someone's going to think of you if you, you know, behave in a certain way. Try that behavior. What I tell people all the time, and this comes from a long history of science in what's called exposure therapy. is by finding ways to stop avoiding things.

Avoidance is the enemy of all progress. And finding ways to stem avoidance is the key. So, I mean, really simply, with or without therapy, kind of making a list of the things that you're avoiding and just in the smallest ways attacking those things is a disruptive pattern that's going to help you achieve. That could be a huge conversation that you're avoiding. That could be asking for a raise at work.

That could be changing, you know, starting your screenplay. It could be starting your business. I mean, it could be something small like a conversation or it could be something big, like a conversation, or it could be something big, like starting a business, right? Entirely. And I think, you know, the thing about, I mean, I was just, you got me thinking about shrinking. What I love about that show is, you know, it's a parody, right? So he's just going and just telling everybody what he thinks. But what I think is great about that is this is he's just confronting avoidance. You know, what you find in your life is when you start to do the things you're afraid of, you, you get unusual results and positive, positive reinforcement, positive reinforcement is so much more powerful than anything that you could any kind of other, um, reward.

Um, there's a story I tell about positive reinforcement. So one of the biggest people who's evolved the field of psychology was this guy, BF Skinner, right? He was a guy who changed psychology, came up with these ideas of positive reinforcement. He used to do, you know, experiments with where he'd look at how people would respond to it. And one year, his class decided they were going to actually respond to him and use positive reinforcement, operant conditioning with him. And so what they decided to do is while he was speaking, they were going to just reinforce his behavior, try to get him to the move, the left side of the room. That's the behavior they were encouraging. And so they did it by, by reinforcing him in the way that presenters like to be responded to. So how do you,

what do you want to see when you're presenting? You want to see smiles and applause and nodding. Yeah, exactly. So that's all they did. He had no idea what was going on. So when he moved to the left, one step to the left, they just nodded and smiled. And then when he stopped, they stopped. That's it. B.F. Skinner, legendary psychologist, spoke, tucked into the left. And so, you know, it's simply, you know, making, getting,

and this is what depression is about. Whatever people want to say about depression, depression is about the lack of reinforcement in your life. You're not getting enough positive reinforcement. And so what a great therapist is going to help you to do is forget about what happened in the past. Okay. Let's talk about getting you in a position to receive reinforcement in your life. Where does that come from? Not inside your apartment, right? It's just not there, right? You're never going to find that reinforcement. Like, you know what? I always joke with people, a quarter of the people come in and tell me, hey, I want to find a romantic partner. I'm like, I can tell you one thing,

where they're not. They're not in your apartment. You're not going to find them. Right. So like, we got to, we got to get out. We got to start moving and shaking and we're going to figure out ways to do that. That dovetails with another thing, not just looking for a partner, but I, I feel, you know, one of the things I've been asked, I just finished the giant press tour for a good person. And one thing that kept coming up was, um, what are the themes in overarching themes that, that, that journalists were seeing in my, in my three films, um, garden state, which I was here, which I always mentioned, I wrote with my brother, Adam, who's a brilliant writer. And now the latest one, a good person. And so it's caused me to examine it. It's not something I really looked at, but I was, again, thinking about it in the tub last night where I do my great thinking.

And I was thinking that for me, it's about looking for, the theme is looking for human connection. And it really comes out of my loneliness that I've felt my whole life. Even when I'm surrounded by people and friends and others, I have felt different and other than and very lonesome. And so I think all three films are about yearning for a deeper connection to someone. And I think the response to this film, since it's come out and the messages, the beautiful, heartfelt messages and comments I'm getting on Instagram and other social media platforms,

I'm seeing this connection to that, obviously to grief and to addiction. But I feel people really tapping into that yearning for a deep connection to other human beings. Yeah, I mean, all your films are certainly about that. When you find that bright spot to help you get through your day, it's powerful. That's where The Bright Side comes in. A new daily podcast from Hello Sunshine that's bringing you a daily dose of joy. I'm Danielle Robay. And I'm Simone Boyce. Listen, both Danielle and I are reporters. We've covered the news and we know the world can feel heavy, but the Bright Side

podcast is a space to have a little fun, to learn something new and get into some friendly debates. That's right. Join us five days a week to see how life can look from the bright side. We'll hear from celebrities, authors, experts, and listeners like you. Whether it's relationships, friend advice, or figuring out how to navigate life's transitions. We'll talk through it all together. Listen to The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine every weekday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine you ask two people the same exact set of seven questions. I'm Minnie Driver, and this was the idea I set out to explore in my podcast, Minnie Questions.

This year, we bring a whole new group of guests to answer the same seven questions, including actress and star of the mega hit sitcom Friends, Courtney Cox. You can't go around it, so you just go through it. This is a roadblock. It's going to catch you down the road. Go through it. Deal with it. Comedian, writer, and star of the series Catastrophe, Rob Delaney. I shouldn't feel guilty about my son's death. He died of a brain tumor.

It's part of what happens when your kid dies. Intellectually, you'll understand that it's not your fault, but you'll still feel guilty. Alt-rock icon, Liz Phair. That personal disaster wrote Guyville. So everything comes out of a dead end. And many, many more. Join me on season three of Many Questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. Professional dancer Cheryl Burke has been part of Dancing with The Stars since the very beginning. 26 seasons of the samba, the rumba and the cha-cha. 24 partners, 6 finals and 2 mirrorball trophies. She knows all the secrets, the behind-the-scenes arguments and the affairs, the flings, the flirting and the fighting. It's time to tell it all on her new podcast, Sex, Lies and Spray Tans.

We'll take you all the way back to season one and up through today for the dance floor drama like you wouldn't believe. Former partners, co-stars, friends and frenemies will join Cheryl each week. Listen to Sex, Lies and Spray Tans on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm just curious, though, you know, what's your hope

for what this film does? How does it, what does it bring out in people and what will, how will they walk away after seeing it? I hope that they feel less lonesome, or just that they see themselves in the movie. I mean, the movie is obviously an extreme.

It's no secret. It's in the trailer. It's about a vehicular manslaughter and how that affects the lives of these two families. and how that affects the lives of these two families. And now, God willing, the audience won't have something that extreme in their life, but everyone grieves something. Everyone has a pain in their heart about something. And I hope that they go and experience it and feel a smidgen less alone, that there's other people. Because when I'm really depressed and anxious and experience it and, um, and, and feel less a little bit, a smidgen less alone that,

that there's other people. Cause when I'm really depressed and anxious and lonesome, and I just feel, I just feel like I'm the only one feeling those things. I know in the, in the macro, that's ridiculous. I know that we're all human beings, but, but, but that's what you feel. That's what's the overwhelming feeling. So I hope that people see this and feel, um, uh, see themselves and feel seen and feel less lonesome. That's what I really hope. Yeah. What I'm, you know, what do you think people would be surprised to know about you that, that led to this film that led to this coming out and, and, um, led to this coming to fruition? I think probably that I've suffered from depression. I mean, that's something I just spoke about, uh, uh, really openly for the first time on the rich role podcast, which is a podcast. I really recommend everybody. It's my favorite podcast other than this one, obviously. Um, but rich role is just a fantastic interviewer and he's,

he's just a guy who was an addict and he turned his whole life around. And then he became like one of those marathoners who runs like insane marathons. And now he's just, I don't know. He's just a, I saw him the other night and I said, you're like my rabbi. Like, I think you, I was like, I think you're, I think what you do for me in my life is what a rabbi is supposed to do for Jewish people because I just find him so inspiring. But anyway, I'm rambling. That's what I think that people would be surprised to know because I'm known for being a comic actor. I'm known for being silly. I come and do this show, for example,

and throughout the pandemic, there were times when I was really, really, really depressed. really, really, really depressed. Nick was dying. Amanda was 50 feet away in my guest house in a ball crying. And I was very, very sad. And I would psych myself up to be funny on this podcast because I want to entertain people. I get joy. I do get joy from making people laugh and entertaining them. And I get a dopamine high from feeling like Donald and I and Joelle and Daniel were funny. And I hopefully made people laugh and made them feel good. But I certainly, I think that's the biggest surprise people would probably think is that I've suffered my whole life from depression and anxiety. And it's actively working on it with you to be able to tackle it better. I mean, I'm just listening to what you're saying about the Rich Roll podcast and the marathon and what he does.

And I just think of you and your life. And you certainly have run a marathon through COVID and through all those things that you experienced. What has allowed you to do that? I mean, how have you in our work and on your own been able to get through that and then use that to produce this movie? Thank you. That's a great question. I think I really just focused on, you know, I'll tell you a story I never told anyone. And that is that, I don't know why this is my answer right away, but I, you know, this, but no one knows this. I was super sick in, um, beginning of January. I got so, I got strep throat. So the

worst I've ever had, it was so painful. I couldn't even swallow water. I mean, I didn't know you could get strep throat this bad and think, I think I had scarlet fever because I had a rash on my stomach, and I was like Googling. Oh, goodness. Yeah, I was Googling rash. I finally was like rash and strep throat, and it said scarlet fever. And I was like, I got a fucking scarlet fever. And I tried to convince my doctor.

I was like, he's like, you wouldn't get scarlet fever. That's for children, and it's like rare. And I was like, I have fucking scarlet fever, dude. Anyway, I don't know if I ever convinced him. But anyway, so I was so sick and I was so sad and I was so alone. And I remember just lying on this heating pad because it was the only thing that felt good. I didn't even have my dog with me to, I mean, it was a low point. And anyway, I put on this Brene Brown YouTube TED Talk about vulnerability, which has gone viral for years. If you haven't seen it, it's what broke Brene Brown as a self-help guru, if you will. I don't know what you call her, but she's amazing. And

it was her first TED Talk and it was about vulnerability. And I just started sobbing. I just started crying. Granted, I was very sensitive and very sick, but I just, what she was saying about being vulnerable and having the courage to be vulnerable, I just felt this tears, I cried for the whole thing. And so I think that that obviously tapped into something for me. And that's where it's a similar place that the movie came out of. It was like, what if I just wrote something that was incredibly vulnerable. You know, the story of a good person is not my exact story, but all the emotions and the feelings and the, uh, everything that's, that is the support structure of the plot is, is my story. Yeah. And I think in what you've

made too, I mean, it just, it speaks to the fact that everybody has a struggle, um, and I think in what you've made, too, I mean, it just it speaks to the fact that everybody has a struggle and that it speaks to the fact that we're all experiencing and have experienced over this past couple of years loss. I mean, if you haven't if you haven't experienced loss in the past couple of years in some way, you probably weren't awake to what was going on. Well, it wasn't even needn't even be death um it could be just the this i think we're all in i mean this ptsd from what happened and we're all moving on like okay that was crazy and i i i really think i was talking to my mom about this who's also a psychologist she's been on the podcast and i was talking about last night because we were trying to analyze this and this beautiful audience response. And my mom was saying kind of like, I think that there is a collective grief in society that people might not even know is there within them.

And that could be from their very real life experience, of course, or it could be just from the experience of the trauma of COVID. I mean, you know, I think what's the story within the story here is, you know, you were asking me about changing behaviors and about dealing with grief and about dealing with depression and overcoming it and how cognitive behavioral therapy is a method for that but the whole arc of of making this movie was in fact all of that for you it was it was quite a journey you know and and it's this audience has been along for the whole ride you know guys joelle and daniel we we i started talking when we started the podcast i think i was telling you've been writing it for a long time. Let's take a break. We'll be right back after these fine words.

When you find that bright spot to help you get through your day, it's powerful. That's where the bright side comes in. A new daily podcast from Hello Sunshine that's bringing you a daily dose of joy. I'm Danielle Robay. And I'm Simone Boyce. Listen, both Danielle and I are reporters. We've covered the news and we know the world can feel heavy, but the Bright Side podcast is a space to have a little fun, to learn something new and get into some friendly debates. That's right. Join us five days a week to see how life can look from the bright

side. We'll hear from celebrities, authors, experts, and listeners like you. Whether it's relationships, friend advice, or figuring out how to navigate life's transitions, we'll talk through it all together. Listen to The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine every weekday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine you ask two people the same exact set of seven questions. I'm Minnie Driver, and this was the idea I set out to explore

in my podcast, Minnie Questions. This year, we bring a whole new group of guests to answer the same seven questions, including actress and star of the mega hit sitcom Friends, Courtney Cox. You can't go around it, so you just go through it. This is a roadblock. It's going to catch you down the road.

Go through it. Deal with it. Comedian, writer, and star of the series Catastrophe, Rob Delaney. I shouldn't feel guilty about my son's death. He died of a brain tumor. It's part of what happens when your kid dies. Intellectually, you'll understand that it's not your fault,

but you'll still feel guilty. Alt-rock icon, Liz Phair. That personal disaster wrote Guyville. So everything comes out of a dead end. And many, many more. Join me on season three of Many Questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

Seven questions, limitless answers. Professional dancer Cheryl Burke has been part of Dancing with the Stars since the very beginning. 26 seasons of the samba, the rumba, and the cha-cha. 24 partners, six finals, and two Mirrorball trophies. She knows all the secrets, the behind-the-scenes arguments, and the affairs, the flings, the flirting, and the fighting. It's time to tell it all on her new podcast, Sex, Lies, and Spray Tans.

We'll take you all the way back to season one and up through today for the dance floor drama like you wouldn't believe. Former partners, co-stars, friends, and frenemies will join Cheryl each week. Listen to Sex, Lies, and Spray Tans on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you guys have any questions for the doc? I don't mean to hog the expensive doctor's time. You guys, this is all I could in my schedule for this.

It was really fascinating to hear the two of you talk. So please apologize. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. I, similar to Zach have depression.

I noticed it at like 16, but I also had ADD, which was also undiagnosed. So I got diagnosed with depression when I was 30 and with ADD when I was 31. And when I started therapy, you know, my first therapist was a lot like you. She was like, all right, let's figure out what the problem is. Let's really make a plan. Let's go get it. And I was incensed. I was like, I'm hurting. I don't know how to start trying. I'm so angry and still confused. And I'm still trying to get medicated despite being diagnosed. It was like a whole process. And it was frustrating for me. So I went through two years of just the emotional kind of therapy, the let's just dive deep and just talk about your past and all of that stuff. And then at some point I was like, this is not changing anything.

So I got a new therapist. He was a cognitive behavioral therapist who helped me change and grow a lot. But I say all that to ask, is there a headspace you need to be in or a thing you need to have done in order to be ready for CBT? This is such a great question. I really, I love this question. I'm already married, but I would marry this question if I wasn't married. I love this question because, you know, I think by our discussing this, you're really

going to help a lot of people. Look, the main advice I have about therapists is if you feel like your therapist doesn't like you, fire them. And not to say that this therapist, you didn't get along, but you know, if you, if there's not mutual likability, meaning you don't feel understood, forget it. It doesn't matter what kind of therapy they do. They can do, you know, I don't know, scarlet fever therapy. It doesn't matter, right? Like they're not the right person. And so what the research, the science shows us is the biggest effect of therapy is feeling understood by the therapist and that there's mutual, well, you know, likeability and positive regard. And so that's just like, you know, it's like when I, there was this club, the Palladium in New York City growing up and I would go there, there'd be these amazing drag queens out front. I would go up to the front and try to get in. They'd be like, you, you, and look at You can't get into a great therapy relationship unless you get past that.

And the entry fee is empathy. You need to be able to show and demonstrate understanding of the person and connect with them. It doesn't matter what kind of therapy you do, right? And so I would say, you know, to me, it's sort of 70% that, to your point, and 30% the techniques, right? And so, you know, you should find a therapist that you feel like understands you. And a lot of the research also shows, this is such a great question, I could nerd out on this forever. And I think it's really helpful. It's like, you know, you got to be able to

do two things as a great coach. You have to first be able to connect and demonstrate an understanding and the hurt, acknowledge the hurt and show the person you get the hurt. Only then will you be able to teach or give skills. I'll tell one other story about this because your question sort of opened a door. But I was once in the clubhouse of a professional sports organization and I was there and there was a rookie. He was really struggling. This is a guy who's just starting in sports, right? It's really struggling. And I was newer at the field and I was just going after him. I was like, Hey man, why don't you try this? Why don't you try that?

Why don't you try that? And there was a veteran there who knew me right for a long time. And he just sauntered over afterwards. The kid was like listening and he was like, you know, playing my game. And then he walked away and the veteran just like, look, Fader, people have to know that you care before they care what you know. And that just like stuck with me. It's a quote.

I think Roosevelt said it or something, but that stuck with me forever. To your point, Joel, like this isn't even about therapy. It's about teaching, you know, if Daniel's teaching someone else audio video stuff, it's like, if the person doesn't feel like you really care about them, it doesn't matter what you say. It doesn't matter the instruction. It doesn't matter the thing. So your, your question is also just like a hammering home point, like find someone that you feel like cares about you and that you care about. You can develop a relationship. There's instant good feeling or, you know, within the first meeting. I feel that you care very much about me. And I do, man. I trust you. And I feel like you're rooting for me. I mean,

the coach analogy is so strong. I feel like you're rooting for me. And another really powerful thing that I get out of our relationship is that I feel accountable to you. I'm not going to let you down because I know it's like, just like an athlete doesn't want to let their coach down and their team captain down. I don't want to let you down. So if I committed to you that I'm going to write, you know, Monday through Friday for three hours a day, and then I'll text him like I did it or I'll send him pages. We had this relationship where it's like, I'm not going to not send him pages because I don't want to disappoint him. And I think that's a really powerful thing. And you don't have to be in therapy to do it.

Obviously, you can do it with your partner. You could do it with a friend. But if you're trying to start a new habit, really being accountable to another person that you don't want to let down, that you made a commitment to, let's say you're trying to do sobriety for a month, or you're trying to write, or you're trying to eat less, whatever your thing is, that you have some sort of person, it could be a therapist, it could be a parent. It could be a friend. It could be a partner that you're accountable to and that you don't want to disappoint. And that obviously you're honest with because if you're lying, what the hell's the point, right? Yeah.

I mean, what you're saying is so valuable, Zach, because not everybody listening is going to go to therapy for whatever reason, right? Maybe it's a cost issue. Some can't afford it, we should say. We advertise BetterHelp on here, which I think is a new and affordable way for people to seek out therapy. So obviously, I have a great privilege in being able to have you in my life. So I do want to acknowledge that. But there are ways to reach out to people.

And sometimes for those who can't, it can be as simple as reaching out to a friend. Not a friend who's going to give you bad advice. You know who that person is. Don't go to the... Everyone listening knows who's the friend not to go to. But just being in communication and sharing and being honest and authentic, I've gotten just so much. My sort of word for my year now is vulnerability.

Obviously, releasing a movie to the world is the most vulnerable thing I can do in my profession. And it did take a lot of courage to just release something and then have – and just show it to the world and I'm going to do it. Yeah, I mean, I had a therapist, actually, who once said to me, this is maybe 20 years ago, who said, look, people often regret the things that they didn't do, not the things they did. And that made a lot of sense to me. And I think, what do people regret later in life? Mostly, they're regrets around relationships. And when you speak about the word vulnerability, we all have someone in our life that we could finish this podcast and be more authentic to.

Maybe they're a friend, maybe they're a partner. But, you know, I think there's so much my experience has been that that finding the people that you can build a little bit more clarity and vulnerability with is just such an enriching part of our lives to be able to do that. I just have a question for you. I don't know. Maybe maybe you cut this. And this is just a real, we never talked about this, but you know, how do you know that I care about you? What are the things that happen that make you feel that way? I feel that you're authentic and I feel that you're genuinely interested and I feel that you're rooting for me.

interested and I feel that you're rooting for me. And I feel no matter, sometimes I fall down and I don't come through with something I committed to you that I was going to do, or I tried every technique you gave me and I still felt depressed, but I always feel like you're in my corner. If I was a boxer, you're the guy that's pushing that weird thing on my forehead, whatever that thing is. I don't even, I don't even know what that thing does. I get the sponge. I don't get that weird push down on your forehead thing,

but, um, but I don't know. That's it. That's the, and I, and I, and I know that you are because,

um, you, you root for me. I feel like you, you're, you're one of my biggest champions. So I want to thank you. Don't worry, everyone. We're going back to a comedy podcast.

Some of the fans right now are like, oh, fuck. No, I promise you this will not be therapy next week. We're going to have Donald back and we will be playing the bong hit noise on the sound effects. Just to prove it to you. You're going to kick off the real doctors. Hold on, I got to playing the bong hit noise on the sound effects just to prove it to you you're gonna kick off the real doctors hold on i gotta get the bong effect so no one freaks out

doc one second yeah there it is everybody that's the show here in honor of donald what you're trying to get into a day soon what you're trying to do all right we'll be back being funny uh next week i want to thank dr favorite i do want to plug your book because you have an awesome book. And it's called, remind me what it's called because I forgot. Life is Sport. Life is Sport. And I know you're writing a new one. But check out Life is Sport if you want to read some of these amazing wisdoms from this gentleman who's helped me so much.

I genuinely, dude, from the bottom of my heart, I couldn't have written this film without you. So thank you. And I couldn't have written without this podcast, to be honest, Joellen Danil, because it made me laugh and it was a hit of dopamine every week when we do it. So thank you guys. And um uh thanks for listening and thanks for uh for for welcoming dr fader into our community and um check out a good person if you haven't seen it and only be in theaters a little while uh obviously and then and then it'll come on streaming but i do think um there's something really powerful about seeing it in the theater it is um there's something communal about, about experiencing the emotions that come up with this with friends,

with family, with a partner, um, in a, in a movie theater setting. So you'll only have a couple of weeks in order to do that. And, um,

it just expanded, um, this weekend tonight, I should say, because we're, we're airing this, uh, on,

uh, the 31st of March, right? Right. So that's it. Uh, we love you. Anything else the 31st of March, right, Daniel? Correct. So that's it. We love you. Anything else you guys want to say? No.

Come back next Tuesday. We'll be here. You know what? Actually, I think, first of all, thanks so much for having me on. It was really great to talk to all of you. And I love the questions that you had. Actually, I think it would be helpful, Zach, just briefly, if you want to talk about the behavioral things you did to write the book. I think that'd be really interesting to

people. To write the script, you mean? To write the script, I mean. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, just talking a little bit about what, you know, what were the ways that you got it done? Everybody, everybody who's listening here, you know, almost to a person is trying to get something done, right? They're trying to lose weight. They're trying to quit drinking. They're trying to speak differently to their partner. They're trying to write their own screenplay, whatever it is, either trying to get something done. And, you know, you, you really became a master of some of these techniques that you and I worked on. Well, master, but no, by no means master, but thank you. Um, practiced what you taught me. The biggest,

most basic thing is making a commitment to do it every day. Just like you make an important commitment to do anything in your life. When you commit to someone in marriage, it's a serious commitment. I committed to Dr. Fader and to myself that I was going to write five days a week for a certain amount of hours. And that even if I was staring at the blinking cursor and saying to myself, you suck, this sucks, I suck, that I was still going to show up and be vulnerable. And some days it would go great and some days it wouldn't. But I always, I was keeping my commitment. And I would say to him, and Dr. Fader always says, there's great power in a streak. Meaning if I've done that commitment and I've really wrote five days in a row,

on Monday, I'm going to start again because I don't want to mess up my streak. If you're trying to go sober and you made it five days, you don't want to mess up my streak. If you're trying to go sober and you made it five days, you don't want to mess up your streak. It's exciting. I think I've spoken about this on the podcast before where I would take something as simple as a paper calendar. You guys can do this for free. I use stickers, but if you don't want to pay for stickers, use would give, at the end of the day, when I was first attempting not drinking for a month, I would give myself a smiley face at the end of that day. And I would see all the smiley faces. And I'd be like, I'm not fucking up my smiley face. It's so simple.

I sold this to Rich Roll. And he was like, it's so funny how reptilian, he said, our brains are. It's just that we want that. We want that. We want that fucking smile. It's like when you're potty training your kids. You know, I know people use stickers. Like if you get a sticker on the day, if you use the potty or whatever, we still, my brain at 46 at the time was like, I'm not fucking not getting that smiley face.

I want that. So even stuff like that really helped me. Going for a streak, getting affirmation, sending the pages to friends, and then getting feedback from them always felt good. People in my writing community, I would send a scene to and be like, hey, can I get your thoughts? And so getting that feedback was helpful. It would inspire me when they were like, this is great. Oh my gosh, keep going. But really showing up, you know, showing up every day, no matter how I felt, was the key. with some people is just have them order a light bright you know 12 online and just every day that you do your thing you put a little light bright uh key into the light right i love this idea so no it's good it's the cheapest you can do it so like this money money can't be your excuse if you don't want my free version which is if you don't want my free version no my my mind version is free

you everyone should have a pencil if not just prick your finger and use blood. I'm just kidding. But you can, anybody can print a paper calendar off the internet. Um, but, but if you want to spend seven bucks, you can buy a light bright. Go ahead, Dr. Fader. Yeah, do it. And I mean, I think, look, the reality is that, you know, just by having simple gamification and also connecting it, you don't have to have a therapist. It's great to have a therapist or coach, but finding someone, the science shows if you say out loud to someone what you're intending to do and they hear it and they know it, you're much more likely to complete it.

And so just those two simple things are things that anyone listening here can do and make it much more likely that you're going to complete your goal. All right. On that note, I know that we only had you for the hour. So thank you so much. You're incredible. Life as sport is the book. Thank you, Dr. Jonathan Fader. I love you, Joel and Daniel. And that's our show. Five, six, seven, eight. stories about a show we made about a bunch of dogs and nurses and a janitor who loved to hate i said he's got stories that we all should know so gather round to hear our gather round to hear our story watch your with zach and donald

hi friends i'm danielle robay and i'm simone voice and we're here to introduce you to And I know. Inspiration and so much more. We'll hear from celebrities, authors, experts, and listeners like you. Whether it's relationships, friend advice, or figuring out how to navigate life's transitions, big and small, we'll talk through it together. Listen to The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine every weekday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Raquel Willis. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Raquel Willis. Join me on my new podcast, Queer Chronicles, a show where LGBTQ plus folks tell their own stories in their own words.

This season, teens will share all about growing up in political battleground states. We will always exist and we will definitely not let them take away our joy, no matter how hard they try. Listen to Queer Chronicles on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your most fabulous shows. Hi, this is Shannon Doherty, host of the new podcast, Let's Be Clear with Shannon Doherty. So in this podcast, I'm going to be talking about marriage, divorce, my family, my career. I'm also going to be talking a lot about cancer, the ups and the downs, everything that I've learned from it. It's going to be a wild ride. So listen to Let's Be Clear with Shannon Doherty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.