Fake Doctors, Real Friends with Zach and Donald - Real Friends Classic -103: My Best Friend's Mistake w Bill Lawrence

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

The will they/ won't they that is JD and Elliot begins to simmer in episode three as Scrubs tackles "the friend zone." In the real world, Zach and Donald talk to show creator Bill Lawrence about the first days of the series.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to this episode on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Donald Countesson. One, two, three. Donald, go down. Donald, go down. That's not what I meant. Three, two. Well, two, three. No, go down. Donald, go down. Donald, go down. That's not what I meant. Three, two.

Oh, well then, you gotta say, you said count us in. I thought you were like doing the- Donald, count us down. There we go, because counting us in is, you know, like the song's about to- Five, six, seven, eight. Right, exactly. Well, count us into our song. Here we go, ready?

Count us into our song, Donald. I really don't want to anymore. Five, six, seven, eight. You want fame? Well, fame costs. And right here is where you start paying in sweat. Debbie Allen, Fame the TV Show. Thank you. Alright, listen, we have Donald, we have our first real guest. Yes, we do and I'm really excited about this.

I don't think there could be a more appropriate guest because he's the reason that we're here. He's the reason we're friends. He's the reason that this show happened that so many people across the world love. And it all came from his brain. He's the reason why I have a closet that I can stay in right now and do this show. He's the reason I have a desk. He's the reason I have this water bottle. I always say that to our next guest jokingly, but also seriously, whenever I buy myself even occasionally I buy him dinner and he's so grateful. And I say, are you kidding? I can only buy you this dinner because of you. Ladies and gentlemen, the creator of Scrubs, Mr. Bill Lawrence. Yeah. I pretended to not even be in the frame, even though this is not a video thing. Hey guys.

I wish we were recording so people could see that. I want people at home to know that even though we're not recording the video, Bill hid on the zoom app and made an appearance. Hey, that was too nice of an introduction because you guys would have both done fine without me. I like that I can claim credit for your success and wellbeing, but you would have found your way regardless. Well, that's nice of you to say, but you definitely changed both of our lives a lot.

In a big way. And also made something that very rarely happens, I'm finding as I attempt to make TV shows and produce them, and something that went nine years and something that is a global success. And I guess the first logical question I wrote down in my notes is how did, because I was listening to this, I want to know how you came up with the idea. How did it, how did the seed come to you in the first place? You guys both know there was a medical advisor on the show named JD and he's the real JD and

He's my best friend in college. He was a fuck-up and are we allowed to curse on your podcast? Yeah, you can curse away. We're explicit. Bill go nuts. Let loose. He was he was a screw up. I went the other way and I used to joke with him because he was such a bad, that he went back to college to go to med school a second time, I mean, to pre-med a second time, so he could go to a med school. I said, my biggest nightmare would be waking up

in an emergency room and having you standing over me and going, hey, you're going to be fine. And I just thought that would be a good TV show, because we used to drink beers, and we used to talk about how all these stories, especially the early ones, are ones straight from his life, you know, worrying that his friend sewed a piece of gauze up into somebody falling in love with a different girl

in his residency program who he's now married to. He's a real guy, it's more relevant than ever because he has become the Kelso at a Kaiser Hospital in Los Feliz and he's there running their COVID virus command center today as we speak. Yeah, I saw that you tweeted something about that. So tell us, like, because you're still best friends,

so you must be in contact with him as he's dealing with all this COVID insanity, right? Yeah, he's super pals. He's a heart surgeon and a cardiologist. He still does speaking engagements, sometimes the real JD, but he goes by John. So he put out a tweet the other day saying, hey, to all the doctors and nurses that work with me,

I'm really proud. And I said, hey, is the real JD? He married the real Elliot, and he's out there fighting the fight, and it became viral and a new story and stuff. In our basketball game that Donald has played in before, and in this episode, you can see that Donald can play ball. JD played in that game, and he tore his rotator cuff.

So he can't be a heart surgeon as much because it aggravates his injury. So he took the Kelso job the same way Dr. Cox took the Kelso job late in life. And he runs the whole hospital in Los Feliz. That said game you speak of is probably the roughest game I've ever played in in my life. Jaws being broke, noses broke.

Oh, the ankles twisted. It's a bunch of dumb comedy writers too, man. I've ever played in in my life jaws being broke noses broke It's a bunch of dumb comedy writers too man. Oh my gosh. It's violent. It's serious. It's so violent. It's violent, dude It's violent. It's a lot older now Donald. We're all I mean, we're the old guys now There's a wave of young guy my son plays Will and I sent Zack a video of will dunking the other day and I was so excited about yeah Bill sent me a video will don't he's other day and I was so excited about it. Yeah, Bill sent me a video of Will dunking, he's like, you have no idea how proud this makes me. It had to be an awesome one. I don't know.

Donald Zach doesn't understand, you know, this is like to see somebody dunk. I didn't even get a response. So Zach's like, oh yeah, he's throwing that round ball into the hoop without letting go. If you had sent me that kid singing, bring him home from Les Mis, I would have cried. You would have lost your mind.

You would have lost your mind. Oh my god. By the way. Dude, does that could have happened? I am so proud of Will. Oh my god. I wouldn't have had it on repeat. I literally would have just been playing Will singing

Bring Him Home. Bill, when you were younger, could you dunk? I could not. You could not dunk. You were never dunked. Can you dunk, Donald? When I was younger, I could. But when I was a lot younger. Yeah could not, Doug. You were never. When I was younger, I could, but when I was a lot younger.

Yeah. A lot younger. Donald, Will does it now aggressively. It's pretty cool. That's awesome. Like on the spin move or on the break. He can do it off the dribble and he can do it off an alley. He has trouble still gripping it.

Why are you guys speaking Latin right now? I have no idea. He tries. he tries. I wanted to go back to JD, the real JD for a second, because I remember back when we first started, he had a pager and they would literally, he'd be at the hospital advising us. So just for those of you who don't know,

a medical advisor on the show is obviously showing us, everyone, the extras, Donald and I, all the doctors, how to look like we know what we're doing, and this is how you do this, and this is what you'd be doing in this particular situation. And this was still in the era of the fax machine. And I remember JD would, he'd be talking to us and saying, yeah, hold it like that, do that,

and then he'd get a page, and then he'd go receive a fax, and he'd look down at the fax of someone's EKG, and he'd be like, uh, I should probably get going. Yeah, you know, he'd be like, uh, I should probably get going. Yeah, you know, he used to joke about that, that he liked the gig with us so much more than his real gig, you know, because he was a grunt, you know, he was still, I mean, it was out of residency, but you know, he was a slave on the way back then and try to pay off med school loans and kind of being around Hollywood. He loved it.

You know, his wife would also, uh, cover for him when he was, when he couldn't be there, she'd come by and you know, we'd run things by her. Speaking of this episode, it starts off in the OR and I remember thinking, Oh, this is going to be awesome. I get to show my dramatic face in the middle of a surgery. It'll be just like all the doctor shows that are on right now. You know what I mean? And then we get there and you're like,

no, put the mask on. I was like, wait, what? What do you mean put the mask on? You're like, no, you guys, we have to wear the masks. And I was like, wait, but we're supposed to be acting. This is nearly, and you were like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Put the mask on, put the mask on. Put the mask on, do it with your eyes.

Right, and do it with your eyes. And I remember being like, okay, this could, this is gonna be, this, okay. Looking back at it now, we were, other than MASH, I think the first shows really to do that. All of these other shows were doing surgery without the masks on and- Donald, it's a great point,

cause you know, JD is most proud of, even though we took so many liberties and were goofy and stuff, it's been often said this for at least medical professionals that this was the most realistic medical show. Just on what it was like in my life. I get that all the time, Bill,

and people on my social media and everything will say, and even I think the American Medical Association said that, so tell us about that. When you started, did you, I've always said, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you, because the show is gonna be silly and go off in crazy tangents that you said to your writers and obviously a mantra to yourself that no I want the the medicine to always be as accurate as possible. We had to they you know they initially even before I could cast you guys talked about making

that show on a soundstage and I'm like man show's gonna be so silly in so many ways, if it's not in a real hospital, people are gonna tell it's fake. And so, we used to have this board of, we do all the funny fantasies and jokes and silly shit, and then we had this board of ways to make it real. And one of them, Donald was talking about one of them, the masks, but you guys needing to look competent, people one of them,

forth between serious and goofy tone. I heard Dylan talk about that in your other episode about how the colors didn't pop and everything looked kind of dank and disgusting intentionally. When you came up, you were coming off of Spin City for those of you who don't know. I was going to ask, should we go through, I mean, not that you want to sit here and discuss your resume or anything like that. Yeah, he would. He'd love to. We gave a little story about what we were doing before Scrubs and how our life changed

before Scrubs. I imagine your life changed. I remember the table read. I'm just saying, I would love to hear your- Yeah, we've never heard like how, I mean, you were already successful. You're coming off Spin City, but how, you know, Donald and I went on and on about how it was such a shock to our lives. I mean, this was your first hit show on your own. I mean, was that a big change in your life? Yeah, you know what? I had had such a weird experience on Spin City that I was partnered up with an iconic star

from my generation. You guys were so kind to Mike Fox when he came and guested on the show. But that was such a surreal experience for me writing for Mike. It was like the guy that I grew up with. This particular experience, even before I met you guys, I was like, all right, you can't have any expectations.

There's no huge movie star doing this. You guys have probably heard me say before, I decided to treat this whole thing like, all right, I wrote the script, no one's ever gonna make it. They're gonna let me shoot the pilot, it'll never be on. The show's gonna be on. It'll never last a whole season, so I'll make the janitor an imaginary character. You know what I mean? Oh, it'll last a whole season. It'll never

be on a season two. And so to me, that kind of protected me. I thought that I was making something like Freaks and Geeks, you know, that would be, people would go, hey, that was really good, and it got canceled after four episodes, and it was surreal to me that it kept working, if that makes sense to you guys. So I was really into the art of it all. Like in the table read, I remember just being so happy

that everyone, top to bottom, was so good, you know? And from what I had done, not necessarily popping, you know, and From what I had done not necessarily popping, you know jokes in a sitcom style and playing it real and I'm like Oh, this is a show that I'd watch even though no one else will So yeah, I was resigned very early to the show not being successful. It was very weird I never asked you this question But becoming off of spin city and this was kind of the beginning of a big single camera comedy craze for those of you don't know the difference being sitcom traditionally a Set in front of a live audience and then a single camera we shoot it like a movie Was there any pressure on you to make this idea you had a sitcom and did you have to yeah?

They the best thing that spin city bought me was the financial and professional security To what happens in television often is you'll create a show. You're, Hey, I'm going to do a show about a young married couple and what it's really like and I'm not going to compromise it at all. And then you'll go sell it to a network. And when you come out, you're like, all right, it's the same show. I mean, we have a kid that's six that speaks like a 30 year old and I do have superpowers now.

But otherwise, otherwise it's like the exact same. And so with this show, when I said I was so convinced it would be a failure, because like early on ABC, we're like, hey, that show is interesting. Maybe the Dr. Cox character should be married and it's a sitcom. We see him at home. We see him at work. I'm like, yeah, I'm not gonna do that. And it was never really an issue for me

because I was so convinced that this would never work anyways. I just wanted to stick with what I thought would be cool and would work. So there was a lot of pressure. The only thing that this episode resonates in a huge way because the president of NBC at the time was convinced that single camera comedy shows weren't funny. And so I'm like, I'm going to keep this show on by decorating it with every bell and whistle

I can. So this is one of the last, I think there's only a couple more episodes after this that still have sound effects. Yeah. That's something I wanted to talk about as we start going through the show. Just so we're clear though, who was the president of the network at the time? Zuckerman was the president. What was Sasa?

What was Sasa? Scott Sasa was very Sasa fine. All right. So this is the- Bill, in an episode that will have aired by the time this airs, because in episode two, we talk about the infamous time that Donald gave a noogie to Jeff Zucker, and he said, please Donald, no. And Donald- But I always thought, at the time, I thought that Jeff Zucker was Scott Sassa's assistant. Nope, he was Scott Sassa. Scott Sassa got shuffled out right as Jeff Zucker came in.

Jeff Zucker now runs CNN. He's one of the most powerful guys in the news world. Scott Sasse is claimed to fame with me because there's always a disconnect with executives that really didn't know how this worked. And what's really interesting is if you look at the credits of Scrubs, the only title in the writers that has writer next to it

is Staff Writer, which is the lowest rank on the totem pole and then the other writers on the show our story editor Co-producer things that don't necessarily say writer and when I handed in the first three scripts, you know showrunner always Rewrites everything on any show. We had a great writing staff, but I was still doing that and Scott Sasa called me up He's like I read the first three scripts, and I gotta say, those three staff writers you hired, because he thought that was the whole writing staff was three people. Those three staff writers you hired really nailed it and really captured your voice from the pilot.

I wanted to be like, well, first of all, they didn't because I wrote these. And secondly, those three staff writers are all like 21 and have never worked on a show before. So crazy man. And then he shockingly got fired and Jeff Zucker replaced him right before Donald kissed his head. Kissed and nugget his head.

Yes. Yeah. By the way, you know, we missed a good bit of Scrubs trivia. I got to say it because I forget it. Do you guys remember real JD's wife's name? She's Elliot in real life. Dolly, Dolly, Dolly. Do you know her last name?

Her maiden last name, no her maiden last name is Dolly Clock. I'm horrible at naming characters. Do you remember a character on our show named Molly Clock? That was Heather Graham. Yes. Wow, that's very good. I would have never gotten that. By the way, a lot of our fans, Bill,

when we put the first episode out, we asked a question. Well, I asked a random question saying, I don't even know what sitcom set that was. And my whole Twitter feed was like, drrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Oh, heaven kiss, there you go. So everyone probably answered your Molly Clock trivia question before I did. They knew it right away. You know what my favorite part of this show, and it's not even the A storyline in this episode, is the clock, the countdown. You could have made the whole show about that.

That could have been the whole show. I loved that. That's a good writer trick. You put an imaginary ticking clock on something and everybody invests in it. Yeah, that was clever. Wait, before we get to the show, I just wanna ask another trivia thing of Bill. Good writer trick, you put an imaginary ticking clock on something and everybody invests in it. Yeah, that was clever. Wait, before we get to the show, I just want to ask another trivia thing of Bill.

I got so geeked out, I really did my homework this week. Sure. Before you go, I want to tell Donald, because he can look him up, there's a picture of Donald and the surgeon he was based on. Donald would be named John Turk, because that's the surgeon's name, but JD was already John, so he became Chris Turk. There's a picture of you with your arm around John Turk when he visited set once, and I'm not even sure if you knew who he was.

Is Donald Noggy in him? No, I remember when he came in, he was like, I'm Turk. And I remember him being white and me being like, oh, snap. Yeah. Yeah. What a rewrite. But you're white. But you're white.

Hold on. I don't think he was a Turk. Donald was like, no, you're not. I'm turkish. I want to just do one other bit of trivia. That is that ABC passed on the show. Yeah. So for those of you who don't know, the show was produced by ABC studios and ABC, the network

gets first crack at things if the studio produces it and Our show ended up on NBC. So tell us how that happened The dude is a true story and I'm not even gonna out him. He's a nice man When I pitched this show to the people that ran the ABC network One of the dudes had a chair that you know Kind of blocked you could lean back into that blocked the view of his head. And about midway through the pitch, I heard- Like a bad guy in a movie?

Like a bad guy. And midway through the pitch, we all heard audible snoring. He had had a rough night, I think the night before. He went, heebiebiebiebiebiebiebiebiebiebie. And I was literally like, I don't think this pitch is going that well, guys. I'm like, I'm not think this pitch is going that well, guys. Oh, I'm not sure this is what you would call a sale in the room.

Is that the dude that the dude that buys is snoozing. So they didn't buy it. And the guy that ran ABC Studios said, you got to wait five months. But then since they hated it, I'll say, hey, can I have permission to go sell this somewhere else? And they'll think it'll never sell it, I'll say, hey, can I have permission to go sell this somewhere else? And they'll think it'll never sell, so they'll say, okay. And then I went and sold it to NBC. But it was why the life of our show was so weird. We were one of the only shows on NBC completely owned

by ABC, which is why Time Slot with me moved around and not always protected and stuff. So it was a weird business arrangement. I always wonder how that goes in the TV landscape when you hear these stories of, oh, everybody passed on Breaking Bad, and the guy at ABC who passed on Scrubs. I just wonder if they fuck with each other in the hallways.

It's like, good job, Tim. Right. You know, the cool moment I had, there is a great guy at ABC who ran it for a while and is now a producer named Stu Bloomberg. And he ran into me after our first year and he goes, you know, I didn't, he heard that pitch. He was there.

He's like, I heard that pitch and I didn't get it. Now I get it. I feel like an idiot. And I thought, oh, that's really cool. So he was very nice about it. At least he was mentioned. He was not the one that fell asleep. Yeah.

Will you tell us about casting Turk and how? You're just gonna get right into it. Well, I literally have like hours of questions for Bill, but I know we wanna also do the episode, but tell us about just, you know, about we obviously wanna know from your experience, cause we shared our experience in the first episode, but your experience of finding Donald.

I was a Donald fan already. I'd seen Coolus, you know, and just thought he was really funny and and he killed all his auditions and in the test part of it you know, it's really interesting because I feel like I Both hurt and then saved Donald in a way to make myself look like a hero feel pretty cool about it Which is you know, the one thing I tell people that don't understand what network tests used to be it literally used to be that you would come as an actor and actress and

Stand in the head of castings office while 20 people were in the back Sitting or you know leaning against the window you, and you'd have one chance, if you're actually shooting the show, you'd have 20 chances. You'd have one chance to do it, not mess up. And also somehow make a room of people that all feel weird to be standing in someone's office anyways and laugh.

So I used to tell everybody, the biggest curse in the world is low energy. Because if you come into those low energy, So I used to tell everybody, the biggest curse in the world is low energy. Because if you come into those low energy, everybody's going to be like, oh, this is horrible. And the one mistake I made with Donald is if you tell Donald, Why don't you make sure you dial that energy up to 11 everybody. I mean Donald's like hello Los Angeles! And he came in and he did his audition and the truth is he did crush all the comedy about

when he left. They're like that guy's energy was fantastic and he's really funny, but he very obviously can't do any of the sincere or dramatic moments because he's an insane person. And that. And I'm like, no, no, no, you can, that's me, that's me. And they never do this, but I had luckily been through the process before

in a different show. And so I went out to Donald and tried to make it very grave because I wanted him to come in then and just play the drama of everything you know because I'm like I told all of them I'm like look that's my note and if he comes back and does it the other way you'll see you can do whatever we want it's a single camera show you know and I went back to Donald and I'm like I think I said something like all right they thought you sucked shit. Yeah, dude.

It was one of those things where I thought you would come to tell me, all right, you got the part. You were like, so I'm walking, I remember skipping into the room like, here we go. Here we fucking go. And you were like, so that really was horrible. I was like, oh. For them, that was too much.

I think much is the word. No, but then we talked for a while and I'm just like, just dial it down and now play it like it's not a comedy and play the drama of it. Donald came back in and this is a compliment to his acting ability. He came back in and then he did it as if he wasn't looking for any laughs or energy. And he walked out, I'm sure shook by doing it again. And the second he walked out, the head of NBC casting, got him Mark Hirschfeld was like, oh, I see it totally.

He's got it. Yeah. Yeah, Donald. Well, thank you. Well, first of all, thank you very much for being a hero and stepping up. I'm not a hero. I don't have the best bedside manner. You guys know that.

Yeah, but it doesn't matter though, man. You got the point across and look, dude, 20 something years later, I owe you a lot, bro. I owe you a lot. Well I remember it's so intimidating. I almost, I think that may have been the first time I ever made it to a network test and it was down to four of us and literally everyone, there must have been 30 people crammed into a small office. It was the most awkward environment to ever try and do a good job. What was this for? This was for scrubs. Really. It was that guy, Mark, wasn't it Bill, Mark Hirschfeld?

Yeah. Everyone was crammed into his office and I was very nervous and, uh, Sarah was there to read with me for her scenes, but I remember feeling my adrenaline come up. Like I was almost going to have a panic attack and I was like, not today. Well, you know, you know, I cheated, everybody cheats. I cheated for the people I wanted to get the part. So you guys both had extra lines and jokes and moments that we had all come up with and found together that other actors weren't doing.

And then at the beginning, when I go in and talk to everybody, I'm like, hey, I'm really into everybody bringing their own flavor. And so some of these actors and actresses have stuff that they've brought on their own, and I let them do it. But it is not true.

You know what I mean? It's just you two and Sarah had stuff that you brought on your own that we let you do. Wow. I remember at the time thinking, that's so awesome. He feels like he's rooting for me. But is he doing that with everyone? Like, I didn't, you know. Nah, I cheated. No, I knew since then you've, but is he doing that with everyone like I didn't you know?

I know I knew since then you've told me that but at the time I'm thinking like I think I think I think I might be His favorite like I'm getting extra jokes the you know the only one that it's great trivia the only one That we didn't know what was gonna happen and we shifted gears a little bit Of like what are we gonna do if this doesn't happen? It's fascinating and I'll when you have them on the get as a guest and we shifted gears a little bit of like, what are we gonna do if this doesn't happen? It's fascinating. And when you have them as a guest, I'll tell you, I wrote the script like we were looking for

a John C. McGinley type for Dr. Cox. And John came in and read it and he was amazing. And then at the studio, he did something completely different in High Energy John and his intensity dial had been dialed up like 10 notches. And the reaction of the studio was like, whoa, that is way too much. And unlike with you guys, I wasn't even confident enough to bring John back in and go, hey, you did that wrong, because I feel like what would follow

would be a hard blow to the face. You know, I'm saying? Fuck you, fuck! Hey, you did that, oh my God! Get off my neck, get off my neck! And so we had this giant level, me and the casting directors, Brett and Debbie, were like, oh man, who's it going to be,

because for us it was John McGinley, and we went into the network and just said, cross your fingers and he came into the network and did it completely different without anybody having spoken to him and this the Johnny C dialed down ten notches and literally walked out of there as if he with the thought he almost said I got this as he left it was just so Johnny C he was only he did it and then I'm like, you feel good? He's like, cash, see ya. He's like. He's like.

He's like. He's like. He's like. He's like. He's like. So that was the only nerve-wracking one. Johnny C. had so many expressions that he would always say.

We were talking about five good ones and cash and how he'd say. Better now. How you doing? Better now. Better now. How you doing? Here's five good ones for you.

How you doing? Better now. Yeah. And then how he'd say to the editor, we'd finish a scene now. How are you doing? Here's five good ones for you. How are you doing? Better now. And then how he'd say to the editor, we'd finish a scene and our editor's name was John Michelle and he'd go, well, we gave John Michelle some ammo. Some ammo. Oh, love that dude, man. That's funny. Speaking that you went out for like a Johnny C type and everything like that, I find it so funny that when that's almost like a gift and a curse when they, when they like that. I find it so funny that when, that's almost like a gift and a curse when they say that. We talked about this in the last podcast. You know what I mean?

When they say we're looking for a Zach Braff type, they're not looking for Zach Braff though. No. They're looking for a Zach Braff type. They want Zach Braff-ish. You know what helped though I think, I thought it's different if like, and this is a compliment,

like right now both you guys, you say Zach Bradford, Donald Faison, they're going TV star. When I said John C. McGinley type at the time, it just meant a character actor, with kind of an intensity thing. It wasn't like he was a household name. You know what I mean? So I don't think it cursed him as much

because there's no insult to him. Seven out of 10 people that read the script are like, no, no, no, cool. Who's John C. McGinley? You know what I mean? And so he didn't have this thing. Yes. Oh, you mean the dude from Platoon?

Platoon guy. Why'd you say Platoon guy? You mean office space, but that's a different guy. No, it's the same guy. No, that's not the same guy. So now if you say John C. McGinley type, people are like, oh yeah, arms crossed, super intense, you know, but that kind of didn't mean that.

Scary. Scary, intimidating. Oh, scary, got it. You know what I mean? And then we were afraid of Bill in the beginning, but then when we got like more friendly. I never said that. Well, you know what?

I did say one thing. I did say one thing. And because of it, because of it, it stuck with me for the rest of the fucking show. And I said, one time I was like, you know, Bill said to everybody, he was like, look, I'm gonna write for all of you, whatever you do, just don't come in my fucking office and say,

how come I'm not in the show this week? And so, as a joke, I went into his office, and I was like, dude, I'm fucking barely in the show this week. And he was like, Oh, yeah, you got phase on. And that do you remember phase on, dude? Oh, my goodness. I totally forgot about that. So running. So Donald did that. And then for the rest of the show, when you were when you were light, when you barely had anything to do in the episode, people like, Oh,

man, I got phase on, I got fazoned. I got fazoned on this episode. There's only two things I remember like that. I remember fazoned, and I remember even saying to guest actors, see if you guys remember this, a guest actor would be like, I still don't think I nailed that line. I'm like, dude, I don't have time for you to Sarah One Morse.

Do you guys know what that is? Because Sarah One Morse. There's a song. Sarah One Morse. There's a song. Sarah one more Z. Sarah one more Z. Sarah one more Z. Sarah one more Z. She wants one more when she's had five.

Because Sarah, no matter how many takes she did, like she'd be like, the director would always be like, okay, Sarah, you good? Can we move on? One more, one more. And we'd all be like Sarah. There's something so good about a confused guest actor's face when I'm like, dude, I don't have time to Sarah one more Z right now.

I was speaking like Klingon is gibberish. That song had like a nice hook to it. She wants one more when she's had five. Sir. Hey, you know what's interesting? I can I remember something Donald about someone choosing to take in this episode. I wish I could remember who said it. It might have been Neil Goldman,

because he was up on set, but it's in the cut and I didn't have it in the initial cut. And he said, there's one take where Donald comes in and says, does, has anybody seen my keys? How about my wallet? And he says, how about my wallet like Chris Rock? He's like, you gotta put that one in.

How about my wallet? How about my wallet? How about my wallet? I literally went back to the cut you got to put that one in. How about my wallet? How about my wallet? I literally went back to the cut. I went back to the cut, watched that master, and you're like, how about my wallet? Donald, was that Chris Rock inspired? I wanted to ask you.

No, it was probably Eddie Murphy inspired. Yeah. But it was funny, it's in there. How about it? Well, there's that one. And the one that we used to laugh at all the time from this episode is, I tried to discover a little something

to make me sweeter. I remember we laughed for days about that. You're really funny in this episode, I wanted to say. Yes, you are. Consider this is a daily news podcast and, the news is about a big question. How much can one guy change? They want change. What will change look like for energy?

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On Consider This from NPR. Listen on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, you guys, I'm Catherine Legg. I'm a racing driver who's literally driven everything with four wheels across the planet. And I've got a new podcast. It's called Throttle Therapy. This season, I'm gearing up to make history, competing in some of the world's

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I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. On my podcast, we explore how to hear the voice that matters, the one that leads you to courage, wisdom, and love. It's not about perfection, it's about direction. Millions of listeners have fed their good wolf. Now it's your turn. Listen to the one you feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Now that we're talking about the episode, I was going to say that. We can segue to the episode.

This is episode three, My Best Friend's Mistake. And first of all, as a show caught our stride, I feel like in this episode. Now the next episode that's after this is My Old Lady, and I think that's the third episode we shot, but this episode aired before My Old Lady. Yeah, we flipped it. Bill, why were Donald and I, you'll have the answer to this, both Donald and I forever have always said, oh, 103 was the episode where we lose three patients and it was kind of like a good hitting our stride moment.

And then both of us this morning went to go re-watch the show and we're like, oh, 103 is not that. Did they switch around? I'm almost positive, but I gotta go look. The pilot and the next one or two were directed by Adam Bernstein. Yeah, I can help you out because Joel,

our amazing producer, made a note here that she said, "'I read this was originally supposed "'to be episode two, this one.'" It wasn't that as much as, because we fixed that in scripting stage. They wanted me to repile it, and I wrote episode two that you guys talked about. And then Adam didn't wanna go away for a week and come back.

So he was directing two episodes in a row. I think we cross-bordered even a little bit. I can't remember off to check. And then Mark Buckland directed the My Old Lady after this, even though it was the third episode, we were gonna split them up. Because Adam was it coming from New York. And even though we were gonna go,

you're gonna direct the first episode in the third episode. He's like, yeah, I'm not flying home and coming back. I'll do all the prep before I do him, because he's a quirky character. And so then we clipped it. He doesn't like to leave New York, Adam Burns. And so to this day, I've tried to get him to come do with other things in the years since.

And he's like, I don't really like to leave New York. Donald's smart because we did catch our stride with two things, and I'll see if you guys, we used to have this big wall of things that we were trying to establish as motifs for the show. And this one was, we had a super long discussion, the reason we did that runner, about how important music was gonna be in this show.

And so we're like, we're even gonna make a song travel around the show like a virus. And that'll be the start of how, queuing people in that music isn't just background on this show, it has huge importance. You know, the song that we chose, I'm So In Love With You, you know,

just give me a little, it was specifically about what was going on in those scenes. It wasn't just a viral song. And we were trying to train people to go, oh, I'm supposed to listen to the words of the song too, because they're about what we're actually to the words of the song too, because they're about what we're actually doing. And then the second thing, which is why it was important that Bernstein was there, was

when we first discussed that the camera is a character. And it's the first time we did a cowboy switch when Zack's running to meet Elliot, the stuntman dives and takes a face plant and the camera doesn't just cut. It goes around looking for him like it's like it's an actual character. You know, and then Zach gets up like this. Yeah. And so there was a thought bubble. You could have almost looped in the camera going, where'd he go? And and so those two things kind of set a creative course for the show

in ways that, you know, we kind of ran with after this. Yeah, I didn't remember this one so much. And then as I was watching it, I was going, wow, there was, there's a lot in this episode that are little moments that stuck with me forever, like the friend zone and the timer, the creative timer clock thing every time I see Sarah and Donald. You know, there's a lot of things that were used throughout the show too, that were established here. Like it's the first time we see Donald playing basketball and you looked very good, Donald. You looked very fit.

I wish I could get back into that shape again. You can, Donald. You just eat too much shit. Well, 26 years old body compared to a 46 year old body is a big, big, big, big difference, man. Well, I really, I took notice that you looked fire. Well, I'm going to accept and receive that. And so did Rob Mastio. He laid Rob Mastio on some apps.

Yeah, Rob can't watch. And he had black hair. There was undyed. Black hair. I got to tell you, man, so this is one of the things I get mocked for, why this episode stuck in my head, was we all have those things, like remember when you share something with friends that you wish you hadn't, or you're drunk

and you say something, it's a shiver story. When you think back you're like, ah. Yeah, like Donald giving a noogie to Jeff Zucker. Yes, so one of mine, and in writers rooms you tell personal stories, was in a frater you tell personal stories was in a fraternity Really, I was in a fraternity. Yeah. No, I was and In college you were in a fraternity. Yeah, no, I swear the in college we were all drinking and hanging out and I was a little buzzy and I had a hometown girlfriend and

a little buzzy and I had a hometown girlfriend and you really think you can go and you care that much about her and I said and it haunted me for the rest of the year they tortured me I said dude I miss her so much it hurts sometimes and that became one of the memes from this show because the mental I gotta you, of all the memes and anything, I get gifts, I get sent. I miss you so much, it hurts sometimes is one of the most common. That's so relatable. And that's in this episode.

It's so relatable. It's also, by the way, the core of how to use, you know, I said, look, voiceover can be a crutch comedically because it's so easy. And when I teach, like the Writers Guild, they're like, what do you know, I said, look, voiceover can be a crutch comedically because it's so easy. And when I teach, like the writer's guild, they're like, what do you mean, how? I'm like, well, the easiest way is to state a premise

in your voiceover and then do the opposite. An example is just tell Turk how you feel without sounding like, you know, a girl for once. I miss you so much it hurts sometimes. Another one was when Elliot had the voiceover, or when Kelso spilled stuff on his face, I miss you so much. It hurts sometimes. Yeah. Another one was when Elliot had the voiceover or, uh, uh, is when Kelso spilled stuff on his face. Whatever you do, do not say the word splotchy.

And I think JD, I think you said good splotchy Dr. Splotch. Why would you even say good splotchy? That's not even a word. Good splotchy. Dr. Splotchy. Anyways.

All right. So I wanted to say at 49 seconds in is my first Muppet exit that I ever did in the show Scrubs, which I always thought of when I would just turn my head. I always laughed at how Kermit the Frog and all the Muppets with Sesame Street characters would always turn and then walk out. Turn it in. And then hop out. Yeah. So when I leave the viewing room here, I sort of do a side turn and I just kind of laughed.

I think that was the first time I tried out my successful Muppet exit. You used that ever. Yeah, it became well. It was a go-to. Bill, at 111, there's an exterior shot of the hospital that is never ever seen again, I don't think. And I noticed that it says something about women's

on the top of it. You guys must have been- Yeah, I didn't paint it out. You guys, we didn't have the budget at the time to be painting or to be painting things out. But it's funny watching the early episodes, there's like, it looks like you guys were, it looks like someone was like,

do we have an exterior shot of the hospital? Nah, how about that one? All right. Well, we went and shot a bunch of stuff that we used in the pilot. And then once we ran out of that stuff, we just started shooting it in our own building. Right. But this one was this. This was not because it says

women's something at the top. Yeah, no, it was particularly bad. There's a lot of bad stuff in here, guys. You know, I always get shit for that. Because I'm always like, you guys remember my favorite thing to say when we're so busy is, I'll take all the mail on that, okay? So someone, like an editor would come up and go, that says women's, and I'm like,

when the letters come, and there are thousands of them are gonna come, Dear Scrubs used to be a huge fan, but that hospital exterior said women's on it. You can send all those letters to me, I'll take all the mail. And it was such an arrogant, dicky thing to say, but I just never got caught up in that stuff.

No, but it's true, because if they're looking at stuff like that, they're not really watching the show. You know what I mean? Bill would always say that when we were like, when we were all holding up for something like, you're wearing the wrong watch. Bill would be like,

guys, I'll take all the mail on the wrong watch. Let's go. That, and then the meanest thing that you could say is to say to John Inwood all the time was he would make you guys wait while he went and fixed a light, you know, way in the background, take 10 minutes. And when he finally got back to camera, I'd always go show saver.

You know, we were in real trouble and you fixed it with that light. That's a hundred yards in the background. Yeah. Well, he, the man was passionate. He wanted to get it just perfect. Uh, Zach, that was also, the episode was also not only your first Muppet exit, I wish I had a wider frame, but the first time that when you got up from falling that you shook out your shoulders. Oh, really? Yeah, that became a thing. I'm frozen in a frame here at two minutes of me in a threesome fantasy with Sarah Chalk

and another beautiful model and we're all sweaty and the first thing that came to my head was could you even do that today on a half hour single camera network comedy? Not that um because it was pretty uh suggestive in graphic risque sure. That was so awesome by the way like holy cow first of all I couldn't believe it was my job. Right right well first all, it was so awesome because that's everybody's fantasy to get married and for your wife to be like, yeah, we could do this. It's one of the best outtakes ever. You remember that one outtake where Zach was like, yeah, keep kissing when the don't stop. Do you remember that?

I remember something being like, I was like, I know, I think I was like, keep rolling. Yeah. Look, I've had this discussion a lot. There's tons of things on our show you couldn't do now correctly or incorrectly. Like the Todd is an interesting one. You know? And we used to say, like the Todd started in a way,

I don't know if you remember, he was always in a banana hammock, because I said, if we're gonna do a young man's fantasies and see women scantily clad, I think we have to see as much, if not more, ridiculous male nudity. And so Todd would just always be in a banana hammock. And he was representative of somebody intentionally

so crass or so ludicrous that he's to be laughed at and not with. But unfortunately, I think he was laughed with a lot. So I don't know if you could do him now. The one things I always get busted on are two storylines. One is when the janitor turned JD into a racist. And one is when I put Donald's picture on the cover of his college magazine twice. Do you remember when I said like, your college was so happy to have

an accomplished great black guy that, you know, in their lily white school that on their brochure, your picture's there twice. Right, I'm on one end and the other end, yeah. They photoshopped you in twice just to look like a PC college, you know? Right, I'm on one end and the other end, yeah. They photoshopped you in twice just to look like a PC college, you know? Well, I noticed that. I noticed that there are a lot of things,

and this is just how time has gone. First of all, the show's about sexual harassment, which is very- This episode is, yeah, because Sarah's being sexually harassed. Which is very dominant right now. One of Hollywood's biggest movie makers is now in jail for doing horrible,

horrible, horrible things, right? But we're touching things that are kinda untouched, like you can't touch these things now. These things that we were doing in the show back in the day, some of these things, networks would be like, no, no, no, no, no, no, let's stay away from that, let's stay away from that. Oh, they'd be so careful.

I think as Bill said, for some, for better, we've evolved and we probably wouldn't make some of those jokes today. And in some, I wonder, in this example with the sort of sexual, sweaty, threesome fantasy, I'm just surprised, Bill, that you got it. I mean, I knew you wanted to push the envelope of what the show could be.

I just wondered, like even now in 2020, in a primetime network comedy, if you could do a sweaty sweaty sex threesome joke. No, look, I wanna answer two things. Cause what Donald was saying, you know, was interesting. We talked about it a lot because I don't know if you remember in this episode, the resolve is that would have been

a completely different story if Dr. Cox or younger male was calling sarah sweetheart and the boys sport. But we were kind of anticipate something we talked about it. Kelso was of a different generation was older than all you guys he called you is definitely an old school dude you can never say these things are innocuous but it was a time. old school dude. You can never say these things are innocuous, but it was a time in which at the end, John C. McGinley talks to Sarah and goes, if you're going to get mad about some quasi term of endearment, you know, from an old out of touch dude, you know, your life here is going to be a lot more complicated than it has to be. And she took the lesson of picking my battles. So to Donald's answer, I think it's a story

you can maybe still do if you're talking, although we've now moved 20 years away from that. At that time, we were going like, hey, here's a guy in his mid to late 60s that is without a doubt of a generation. I got in so much trouble when he, Kelso, said to a male nurse, you know, oh, you're wondering why you don't get respected. It's because you're doing a woman's job. And

our intent was that Kelso is so out of touch that he would say that, you know what I mean? And then the complaints I got from nurses association got letters and stuff, true, were how could you have a character saying that when it's such a problem that characters, that people out there, especially from that generation believe that and say that? I'm like, right, it's real. He's the bad guy on this. And there's a nursing shortage. Don't discourage people.

Yeah. He's the bad guy on the show. He has those thoughts. And in a good way, I think Kelso evolved. And into Zach's question, it comes all under the heading, and it's not just with those two girls, which was a joke,

and obviously a joke about some young male fantasy. But this is for both of you, and for Sarah and for Judy, when I said the show has to be real beyond the goofiness, what we thought about more than jokes was about when we would have sex scenes, you know? And it was really important to me, not in a lascivious way,

that they didn't seem like a TV sitcom kiss where everybody goes, woo! And some of the romance scenes between Zack and Sarah and Donald and Judy and even Johnny C. and my wife, which still turns my stomach a little bit because I had to see it. You did it. You did it.

I had to kiss Krista so early and I was still in the terrified of Bill phase and it was an early episode. I don't know what, probably five or something. And I had to make out with Krista and I remember being like, this is the craziest job. I'm about to make out with my boss's wife for him I still have that on a loop at my house it's awesome oh yeah it means super sexy I'm really grateful for my gosh no but my point is did you didn't you guys think you were doing fairly racy sex scenes? Yes. Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely. Throughout the whole show. I mean, I can't remember, that big famous one that Sarah and I did with the pizza, I remember that being like, I can't believe they're going to put this on TV. This is going to be censored. And all my stuff with Amy Smart, I remember being like, they're going to air this? I was really excited about, not in that way, but like when Judy and I would do scenes together, it really felt like we were a couple when watched, when I watched

it, you know what I mean? Cause that's how, I don't know, there was just something that was really, she and I had great chemistry, I feel like. And because of that, I, you know, when I watched her stuff, that's what everybody hopes for when they do romantic stuff, that the audience believes it. And if the audience doesn't believe it, well, hopefully I believe it. You know what I mean? And I liked you guys. I liked you guys. There's no offense because I love Zack and Sarah, but my favorite couple on the show are Donald and Judy.

What the fuck? Because as a writer's room, I know, blasphemy. Don't be mad. The writer's room, one of the things we put on those boards in the first couple weeks was we're gonna get Turk and Carla together and never break them up and never threaten them. And, you know, because we're gonna do will they or won't they

with the other characters, and how cool is it to see a couple that finds each other and works right away. And the only reason we ever even had you guys have a little dip here or there as a couple was because we never expected the show to last nine years. And we had to be like, we should probably throw a couple curveballs their way, man. Yeah, we need them. Looking back at it now, it's perfect. As a young man doing, you know, who's on a television show, like I used to be like, are we gonna have Halle Berry on the show as my love interest?

And we go, and those things would never ever happen. Were you bummed out? Not that it was Judy, cause she's a knockout, but were you like, where's all my love? I know, but were you like, where are all my love interests? Yeah, absolutely man. But when you look, where's all my love? I know but were you like where all my love interests? Yeah, absolutely man But when you look back at the storytelling when you look back at at at the relationship that those two have like I can't post Pictures of my wife and I because people are like that's not Carla. Yeah

Me hugging anyone cuz they're like why aren't you hugging Turk? Right. That's the that's the other one that comes up. I'll be like, here's a lovely picture of me and my family. And they're like, that's not where's JD, where's Zach Braff? People people hit me all the time, too, with how and we tried to do it. You and Judy react to, you know, TV is a world in which a wife has her hands on her hips and is frustrated with her husband or the husband's like, you know, you're crazy. And even when we sent you guys in crazy stories, one of my favorite scenes was a later episode. But when you guys find out Judy's pregnant before she does and you're going to tell her

and everybody knows her and you know, the cool thing about your characters is that, you, when it comes to a comedic peak, and we did this a lot, you admit fault, and then she, instead of punishing you for it, says, ah, who gives a shit, we're having a baby. You know what I mean? And that's not often how real couples work, so it was a couple to aspire to. Right. I thought.

Looking back at it now, I love it. Like, just the, even the courtship, even how the show starts and how these guys start off, you know, they're not together, but if you didn't watch the show from the beginning, you would imagine that when the show was introduced, these characters started off to, you know what I mean? Like watch family guy and you, and you say, okay, so Peter's married and this is his family and you accept that the whole way through. There's no need for an origin story or anything like that.

And that's how I feel it is with Carla and Turk. There's no need for an origin story. They're just a TV couple that works. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about this because taking it back to the episode, like the way Zach was doing cool things in Freezing Frames, I was trying to remember episode, like the way Zach was doing cool things in freezing frames,

I was trying to remember Minutia for you guys, and the only, the Turk and Carla Minutia I remember was the scene in which you two are gonna hang out and watch Fletch, and then Donald leaves. It was very subtle. It's one of those discussions you have in the writer's room. It's like Donald's psyched to watch Fletch, and Carla says, do you want to go hang out in your room?

We don't want just Carla to go, do you want to go fuck, because that makes her seem like a bimbo, and we don't want Turk to just be like, I'll drop JD in an instant. So the dumb things you argue about in the writers room, you won't even notice unless you watch it again. Did you see that Carla was holding two beers? So like when she goes to you, go look at that again.

She goes, you're watching Fletch, you know, it's funny when we do all the lines. She goes, hey, you wanna go hang out in your room? And she's got, so it's not, the women in the writing staff, right, wanted to make it, oh, we're not just gonna go fuck. I mean, we will eventually. But she's got two beers, so it's like,

do you wanna go out your room? We both have a beer, we'll shoot the shit go fuck. I mean, we will eventually, but she's got two beers. So it's like, do you want to go out your room? We both have a beer, we'll shoot the shit and then we'll hook up. And that fine line, I think people, this is me being a nerd, I think people, even if they don't notice that it's subtext, if you do a ton of it, they gradually notice that it's more than just physical.

That scene also, Zach, and you can, then I'll hand it back to you, but you had one of our other first arguments was we constantly fought in the writer's room, and I made huge mistakes as we went along about things that should be a fantasy and shouldn't. And this was one of the first arguments, because when Carla says,

do you wanna go hang out in my room? We look to you, and when we look back, the remote control is still hovering in the air. Yeah. And it drops, and it's very Bugs Bunny and it was not done as a fantasy. You know what I mean? Did you always this early have the sort of white flash to a fantasy always? I forgot. Yeah, we were making the rules still but we hadn't done the sound effects because we were just starting to obsess about the difference between fantasies and flashbacks.

Well, you know, one of the funniest things I think in throughout nine years of Scrubs is that Bill was always dancing around what is so broad that it's a fantasy or what could exist in this world. And there's two that come to mind as my favorites that he put in the real world, but were probably supposed to be fantasies. One is when Donald packs me into the bag.

It was literally the size of a fucking bowling bag. He puts you in a backpack. Oh, sorry. It was a backpack. And I was like, and if you remember, my arm and leg were sticking up. My body would never bend. I had a fake foot by your head. And then somebody scratched your nose,

your foot went, ugh. That was real in the real world. And the other one is that the janitor builds a full-size house out of sand in the parking lot. And that was in the real world. The sandcastle is not my fault, because the sandcastle, it was written like it was real in the script. And we thought it would be a sandcastle, the gag, you know, it was written like it was real in the script.

And we thought it would be a sandcastle like the size of like you ever see a kid's playhouse like outside? Yeah. Something you could actually build. Right. And our, when I showed up, I drove, I tried to drive to my parking spot that morning and the parking lot was closed.

I remember going, uh-oh. And then I rounded the corner. And there was a- It's like Spinal Tap the opposite way. There was a sand castle as big as my home. I'm like, oh no. Well, that's, we can't say it's a fantasy because I think he lived there for most of the episode.

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Listen to The Indicator from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get podcasts. Hey, you guys, I'm Catherine Legg. I'm a racing driver who's literally driven everything with four wheels across the planet. And I've got a new podcast. It's called Throttle Therapy. This season

I'm gearing up to make history competing in some of the world's most notorious racing events starting at the Indy 500. Join me as I travel from racetrack to racetrack in my quest to continue a memorable career in racing. I'm also going to bring you inside stories with legends of sports, new faces from the next generation of auto racing and conversations with the people who've supported me throughout my career. We'll be getting into everything from karting to NASCAR, even Formula One. Whether you dream about being a pro athlete or an astronaut, we're talking about what it takes to make it.

Listen to Throttle Therapy with Catherine Legg, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. And I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How to Money. We

want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt or you've got a sky-high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early. Well, How to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth. That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays for money advice without the judgment

and jargon. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Can you hear it? It's the whisper of two wolves inside you. One says, you're not enough. The other says, keep going, you can do this. They're always talking. The one you listen to shapes your life. I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed.

On my podcast, we explore how to hear the voice that matters, the one that leads you to courage, wisdom, and love. It's not about perfection, it's about direction. Millions of listeners have fed their good wolf. Now it's your turn. Listen to the one you feed on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Those are the two that always stuck out in my mind as one. And I'm sure as we go through the series, we'll find other ones. But I remember thinking like, Oh my God, that one in the bag was in the sandcastle. Yeah, there were mistakes. So listen, 225, we were talking about how you phased out the whole, in this episode you went nuts with sound effects and there's literally a horn noise when Johnny's singing. Yeah, brr-brr-brr-brr for fucking. When you and JD eventually do brr-brr-brr-brr-brr-brr.

Yeah. I mean, this episode is, this might have been your peak sound effects moment as you're figuring out. Oh no, there's another one coming. I know there's another one coming. But this one has the ear flick noise and also pretty much like anytime Johnny C moves, just You guys did the trivia question of Jeff's, you know, the powers that be and you know, it's hard to screen rough cuts of single camera shows because they wouldn't hear the laughs of

all their friends and Will and Grace. They'd be like, is this funny? And I thought it was funny. I hated those sound effects so much. Did you guys do the trivia question of the one sound effect that stayed all nine years? It's got to be the wish to go away into the fantasy. Yeah. No, wish to fantasies, though, is not a sign effect with an actor. There's an actor. Oh, Todd, high five.

There you go. Todd's high five being amplified times 9,000. I think that's the sound of like a rubber mat being slapped on the ground. You know, and we kept that one forever. That's funny. They really hurt by the way. I mean, they genuinely, I'm not being a wimp. They genuinely hurt. No one's calling being a wimp. They genuinely hurt.

No one's calling you a wimp, but come on. He still passes out fives, you know, on a line to people. I know you can, you can go on Cameo by the way. We'll give Rob a shout out. You can go on Cameo and Rob Mascio will send you a message and high five you virtually and go, go hire Rob to give your friends a virtual high five on Cameo. I kind of want to get one for Donald. I'll accept and receive it. Thank you very much.

326, the janitor says one of my favorite lines of the first season, you seem unhappy. I like that. I had forgotten that he locked you outside. Talk about Neil for a second, Bill, because we told, we shared with the listeners, the story about how, you know, he wasn't intended to be in your mind as big a role as he was, and of course everyone always discusses that he may have been a figment of my imagination if the show only went one season,

but just talk about Neil and how you kept expanding his part because he was just so frigging funny. I have a question. Did he have to audition also? That's the other question. No. He did not have to audition. Here's what happened is Neil does a stand up bit when he's interviewed because he's a really good actor.

I don't know if you guys have ever seen him, any of his dramatic stuff. Of course. And on the middle he was so good too. And he's so good, yeah. And he came in and read for Dr. Cox and he was really good, but John make for dr. Cox and he was really good, but literally there because we were old buddies I'm like you're gonna be the janitor and

And so when he talks about it He's like so I really prepared and I came in and then Bill said I'm gonna be the janitor and when Neil does the bit He was like well, I still carry around like a clipboard and a step mop carry around a mop Yes, well, I get to wear one of those cool lab jumpsuit, gray jumpsuit. He would get so mad, Neil would that it wasn't a jumpsuit. He goes, it's a, it's a gray shirt and pants. It's not a jumpsuit. I'm sorry.

I always thought that his character was like the worst janitor in the world, but when you watch the show show he's always working and he's always doing his job. He was never lazy You know, I mean he was drunk most the time That's one of my favorite lines ever. Have you been drinking? I'm not drunk Now so look I JD The real JD told me often when he was talking about it, that there would always be somebody

as there is in any group dynamic when he was a resident who would just plague him. It wasn't always a janitor or whatever. So I wanted to come up with that character for you. And I thought it would be a line here or there. But Neil was so funny, man. And such a gift just to have around. And he's, you know me,

whenever I think someone's funny and they're a buddy, I put him or her in as much as I possibly can. So he became more and more of a character in ways I never thought. And part of the joy for me of going back and looking at these episodes, not only seeing moments like that, Zach,

but I know Neil made up, you know, like even in this episode, you're screaming and the line in the script is, la la la, I can't hear you. But then I kept it in because that's one of the first times that I looked into editing and then there was Neil going, what, you love who? I mean, just playing around with you.

I remember the scenes with Neil would always be so fun because we'd all riff around, but Neil was the best at it and you just never knew what he was gonna say. And I just remember, I always knew I was gonna laugh extra hard because he would just come up with the craziest shit ever. I was randomly down the wormhole of getting ready to talk to you two guys.

By the way, the end of my other sentence was one of the gifts for me as I watched the show go on and evolve. Some stuff got worse as a writer you know like when you say I torture myself when I got too broad and stuff like that but then some stuff got better characters got richer and last night randomly I was watching Neil interact with Donald do you know I mean I don't know if you remember when he had a sock puppet he's like he pretended to hit you with a piece and you your dynamic

with him was so funny as well. You know, it was cool to see him start to interact with other characters, but the wormhole I ended up with last night, and everybody should go look for it. There's a scene with Sam Lloyd who plays Ted and Zach and Neil, and you guys are trying to help Neil with a girlfriend.

You know, he's trying to, the girl that played the ukulele, Kate McCoochie. Gooch. Gooch, you're trying to get him to go for it with her. And I told Neil, I'm like, you gotta make up something of what you did with your girlfriend. And Neil, Zach, we used your real reactions.

He made up a monologue about killing a duck for her. Yeah. It's not in the script. And I watched it last night. He starts and he goes, he goes, look, you should give her a present. Like something personal, something you made. Like when I first started dating Lady, I gave her a duck that I killed. Already a weird premise, right?

And then he said, I know what you're asking. Wouldn't it have been more personal to kill her in front of her? And yes, it would have, which is also made up. And then he said, I know what you're asking. Wouldn't it have been more personal to kill her in front of her? And yes, it would have, which is also made up. And then he goes, but the duck and I were driving over. And he goes, maybe I was having a bad day. Maybe he was, I don't know.

But next thing you know, we're pulled over on the side of the road, shirts off. Which meant the duck was wearing a shirt. He goes, next thing you know, we're pulled over on the side of the road, shirts off, which meant the duck was wearing a shirt. He goes, next thing you know, we're pulled over on the side of the road, shirts off, you know, seeing what's what. So Neil described a scene that he beat a duck to death on the side of the freeway.

And I'm like, that's why that guy's in the show so much, man. I said, hey, come up with something that you did for your girlfriend. And he's like, what he's probably looking for is that I beat a duck to death for her and then brought it over so she could cook it. So weird. He would also just come up with the craziest shit.

And to the point where in later episodes, later seasons, Bill, sometimes it would just say in the script, it would just, and then Neil makes up something. Yeah, Neil, please say something funny. It's late. I used to have one script. I guess it was late night in the script it would just and then Neil makes up something. Yeah, Neil, please say something funny It's late. I guess it was late night in the writers room Bill and you're like, we're not gonna do that Just put Neil says something funny. Yeah, dude. I wrote that the script at one the first time. I'm like Neil It's two in the morning. Just say something funny and

The next day he did You know, I liked it the most when I got to see him with you guys or with Sarah actually having a real moment, you know, because it was so cool that he could actually deliver, you know? That's the interesting thing. As we, you know, as the show goes on, you start to see people's first one-on-one scenes together. And so in this episode, John C. McGinley and Sarah have their first real one-on-one scene where she's asking him for advice.

And at this point, we, as an audience member, we think that JD and John C. McGinley are the only ones that, you know, that's the only dad-son relationship, but he was actually a dad to all of us in the show as far as, you know what I mean? And this was the first episode where we see Sarah and him And actually him mess with Sarah in a way that could have gotten her fired in the shit Yeah, you know what I mean?

I just thought that I thought that was very interesting because eventually you have to introduce everybody even though it took you know a Whole season for everybody to meet the janitor for the janitor to do other scenes with, for Neil to do other scenes with everyone other than Zach, it was just, it's just interesting, because when the show starts off, it seems like the bubble is so small. You know what I mean? And it starts with JD's relationship with everybody. But then as it goes on, the bubble just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. It's a great metaphor.

And by the end of it, we're all in the same universe together. And this is also the first episode where the hospital gets really wacky. All of a sudden, you know what I mean? Like we weren't wacky before that. Before this, we were, you know, even though it's episode three, we started, this is where we're starting to do things that later on, I think, you know, I love it when you jump from episode one or two and you jump all the way to episode, you know, season three, episode five, because

the growth of the show is so different. You know what I mean? I think about it in terms of characters, like what's one of the things that's hard for me to watch about the early episodes is Ken Jenkins is such a good actor and he was the bad guy on this show. And I had not yet realized how deliciously silly and funny that guy could be. That guy is a comedy assassin, but he was so good at being a guy that you just hated.

You know what I mean? And we leaned into that and he didn't have any other levels. So it's so cool when he hated, you know what I mean? And we leaned into that and he didn't have any other levels. So it's so cool when he expands, you know what I mean? To see that he's silly and funny, that Johnny C can be kind here or there, that Donald and the janitor can go back and forth at each other but be on different playing fields because Donald's not threatened.

I mean, it's weird to see you guys all at the beginning because I did like the rich characters that you all became very much, you know? I love it. Consider this is a daily news podcast, and lately, the news is about a big question. How much can one guy change? They want change.

What will change look like for energy? Drill, baby, drill. Schools? Take the Department of education, close it. Healthcare? Better and less expensive. Follow coverage of a changing country. Promises made, promises kept.

We're going to keep our promises. On Consider This from NPR. Listen on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey you guys, I'm Catherine Legg. I'm a racing driver who's literally driven everything with four wheels across the planet. And I've got a new podcast. It's called Throttle Therapy. This season, I'm gearing up to make history competing in some of the world's most notorious

racing events, starting at the Indy 500. Join me as I travel from racetrack to racetrack in my quest to continue a memorable career in racing. I'm also going to bring you inside stories with legends of sports, new faces from the next generation of auto racing, and conversations with the people who've supported me throughout my career. We'll be getting into everything from karting to NASCAR, even Formula One. Whether you dream about being a pro athlete or an astronaut, we're talking about what

it takes to make it. Listen to Throttle Therapy with Katherine Legg, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. And I am Matt.

And we're the hosts of How to Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah, whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt, or you've got a sky high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early. Well, How to Money will help you

to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth. That's right, How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, for money advice without the judgment and jargon. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Can you hear it?

It's the whisper of two wolves inside you. One says, you're not enough. The other says, keep going. You can do this. They're always talking. The one you listen to shapes your life. I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. On my podcast, we explore how to hear the voice that matters, the one that leads you

to courage, wisdom, and love. It's not about perfection, it's about direction. Millions of listeners have fed their good wolf. Now it's your turn. Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your turn. Listen to the one you feed on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Bill, we take a caller here on our show and it looks like- Oh, by the way, I just thought it was a super villain because it is a, as a, as a gentleman that is literally has a cat on his lap.

For you guys listening at home, uh, his picture came up on zoom and he's petting a cat like it, like the evil genius, like Dr. Evil. You all are enjoying talking about your show. Well, I have bad news. That's funny. Um, all right, Joel, go ahead and introduce them. Yes. Hi, Mark. Thanks so much for bad news. That's what it is. All right, Joelle, go ahead and introduce them. Yes. Hi, Mark. Thanks so much for joining us. Hi, everyone. How are you? Can you hear me?

Yes, we can. We hear you just fine, Martin. This is my first ever Zoom meeting. I've never done this. I'm glad it's working. I'm glad you're here. Well, Mark, you picked a good episode to be on because you have the creator of the whole show, Bill Lawrence. So if you have a question for any of us go ahead. Oh

Hello, Bill Lawrence and hello all of you. That's awesome. I'm so glad to be where do you live? By the way, I live in Chicago I'm on the northwest side of Chicago up in Avondale Old Irving Park area shot how stand up. We were just talking about Neil Flynn That's where that's the area of the world that he is from, my friend. Really? Oh, I know. But not your specific area, but he's from Chicago. No, but he was not like downstairs right now. Right now.

No, no, no, no. I mean, he could be. All right, go ahead, Mark. All right. Even from the earliest episodes, Scrubs wasn't afraid to raise social issues and took a clear stance that I thought prioritized like well-being of people over the economics and insurance bureaucracy. I feel like this helped a lot of young people,

myself included, start thinking about the human side of healthcare, and healthcare, like, as a human right for the first time, and sort of some of those more serious issues. So I was just wondering if you guys recalled any specific moments from production, episodes or moments on set that might have changed or influenced the way you guys view the sort of work done by your characters or just sort of the healthcare system

as a whole. Wow. I'll let Donald and Zach answer this for the show. I will tell you, I've been thinking about this a lot lately, Mark, because the real JD and my pal, we were both kind of screw ups with a lot with very little direction as young guys. And I remember asking him what the hell he was doing going back to pre-med. And he talked about wanting to be of service, you know, and his viewpoint right now, you know, not to make this too poignant. I FaceTime with him every night when he gets off work because he's running the COVID command

center. He's running the whole ICU for this hospital as we spoke about, and it helps him decompress and not take that stuff into his family. And he, as a caregiver, cares so much more about the humanistic side than any of this other bullshit, and he instilled that upon me. And he said we could steal all of his stories, but we could never have a callousness. He said he was only interested in me stealing his stories and his life and his name if the undercurrent of the show

was that it was about a bunch of people, flaws and all, that cared most about helping and taking care of other people. So that was part of the series. And I'll leave the rest to Donald and Zach. But that's cool that you asked that because I think about him every day. He's out there doing stuff much more important.

Of course, and it's the perfect question for this era, Mark, because these medical professionals and everyone who's working in the industry, whether you're a doctor, a nurse, or a janitor, a medic, everyone who's in this environment, the world is finally seeing in the spotlight how heroic these people are. I think I always felt when we were making this show that Bill was really shining a light on how dedicated these folks were and how they had to deal with life and death every

single day. One thing that really stood out for me when you asked your question was that I remember learning that the nurses really run the show. I hadn't spent much time in a hospital when we started making scrubs and I learned that the doctors can't do it without the nurses and the nurses are the ones who are on the front lines and the doctors have to be rotating and they can't do anything without the help of amazing nurses. It wasn't until I spent more time in hospitals with both my father and my sister getting sick that I really, and this was after Scrubs, but I remember being like, wow,

this is everything we were doing is so real. I'm witnessing it on the front lines that we see that doctor like every now and then, but man, these nurses, and when we have a good one, it is such a difference, and it puts a smile on my sick father's face and I'm like, wow, I'm so happy. the front lines that we see that doctor like every now and then, but man, these nurses and when we have a good one, it is such a difference and it puts a smile on my sick father's face and when we have one that's a little bit aloof, it just drives you crazy

and I just really, it really came home to me. Everything we have been doing on the show, how crucial and how important the people on the front lines, particularly in this anecdote, I'm telling the nursing staff of hospitals were to me. The one thing that really sticks out for me is to piggyback on what Bill said, is for some hospitals, if you don't have insurance, you can't get treated. The one thing that Scrubs did, which I thought was amazing was we had a bunch of,

the doctors on the show were a bunch of rule breakers, benders, especially when it came to something like that. That was always special for me because a lot of people don't have great insurance, especially right now, a lot of people don't have it. Any insurance at all. Any insurance at all. Thank you, Zach. And tests cost a lot of money. You know what I mean? And if there are rule breakers and rule benders out there that can save lives in that way, I'm all for that. You know what I mean? And I love that we had people on the show, like Dr. Cox, when Kelso's trying to get this person out

of the hospital, Cox comes up with so many different ways to get this guy a bed. And I thought that was just amazing. Hey, Mark, we obsessed so much about your question, all in terms of the character, Dr. Kelso. There's an episode, you guys might remember, I remember the song and the scenes that, because the real JD, he runs a hospital now and he's like, and you're forced with having to make these decisions for the greater good. And there's an episode in which Dr. Kelso, has to punt a guy from treatment, that they don't have insurance, that have money,

in an effort to still build other stuff and to have money to save other people. And we made this joke about how every time Dr. Kelso's foot hits the bottom of the stairs when he leaves the hospital, he starts whistling as if the day doesn't even affect him. And at the end of that episode, even he, because he knew he was directly responsible for his guy not getting care, his foot hits and he has a moment you can see it's really hard for him to start whistling again. There's a Citizen Cope song called Sideways Playing. And so we just wanted to make sure that the people weren't the villains and that the system was. So

yeah, I'm really grateful that you noticed that and asked about it. Awesome. Thank you guys for giving such a detailed great responses. I think it just speaks to how much you guys feel for the show and put into the show. It really comes across and I think that's why I've been such a big fan for so long. So thank you. Thank you, Mark. Thanks so much for asking your question. Do you want to ask another question? Oh sure. You get one more.

All right. So this episode, episode three, and the show as a whole, I think has a lot of moments that exemplify really healthy, often sensitive male relationships. Both your guys's Turk and JD and JD and Dr. Cox and other ones. And I was just wondering if you guys could maybe talk a little bit about what was important to you guys to have positive sort of emotional moments between bros and how that might have affected your real-life relationship. I think that's a great question. I'm glad you asked it with Bill on the show because for me, I really felt in a positive way. Granted, we joked about it a lot,

but I thought in a positive way, we were showing, you know, when we were growing up, I mean, when Donald, Bill's a smidgen older than us, but when Donald and I were growing up, you know, anything you did that was emotive towards a guy, you were called gay, and it was derogatory, and it was negative, and it was just an adjective in high school and junior high and middle school,

and everything was, and I always, as someone who was, it's no surprise, I'm similar in a lot of ways to JD, I always felt like, but this is who I am, I am a guy who is a hugger and who's emotional and wears his heart in his sleeve and loves musicals, who happens to be a heterosexual. And I felt like Bill wrote a friendship that was like, well, we're going to show that that's okay to men in a way, because I've noticed it in my life, you know, the fact that Donald

and I would hug and stuff, you know. I did a Broadway show and Scrubs fans would come to the stage door and they'd be like, JD, can I have a hug? And I would always kind of laugh. It was almost like the show was giving a certain community of men telling them that it was okay to, you're not gonna, no matter what your sexuality is, who cares?

It's not gonna be threatened by being like JD, just being who you truly are. And I always thought that that was a really positive thing that Bill put out there. Yeah, I loved the fact that the two of them were so comfortable around each other that they could be like brothers and lie in the same bed in their underwear and not be a thing for them.

You know what I mean? I like that. And I think that storyline definitely transferred into my real life with Zack, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like my comfortability about being around other men and not being afraid to be who I am and accept who they are is all because of Scrubs. You know what I mean?

I've played best friends in other projects and you know, you play the tough guy, etc. etc. But with these guys, none of that stuff mattered. What mattered was that they loved each other at the end of the day. And I cherish the fact that I can have friendships with men and I can say to them, I love you and it not be looked at as a bad thing. It's a weird topic for me because JD was based on real JD. Donald was based on a doctor. But the truth is with these two characters, anyways, I always

joked around that I was kind of wrestling with both sides of myself because I am, I played sports and was the high school jockey type guy that was afraid of this stuff. And on the other side I do, Zach and I share a love of Broadway musicals. Bill can sing Les Mis Robins French, go Bill. Qui est boi, pour je condomme cet homme pour sa servitude.

All right, whatever. And- The whole show. Was that cool, Feroc, you take the watch. They may exactly put its light. Donald, that's a digression. We'll sing Les Mis in later episodes. Okay. I was always wrestling as a young man with which lane I fit in and wishing that it would be easier

just to not have to pick a lane. And then these guys, look, the truth is, whenever you create a relationship as a writer, it's yours for a second. And then the actors, if they're great, they wrestle ownership from you. And what starts out as 80, 20 years, you know, quickly on this show became 50, 50, mine and theirs, and then became all theirs in a way that I would write moments

that weren't supposed to be bromance moments, you know you know like whether it was them wanting to hug each other you know at the end and then when I look in the dailies they're rubbing their faces and heads against each other. That's my favorite meme ever. My favorite gif is the one of me and Dalon rubbing our heads. I use it all the time. People are always like you using gifts of yourself and Don running our heads. I use it all the time. That's the best one ever. That is so hot. People are always like, you're using gifts of yourself?

I'm like, yeah, that one I do. Because it really looks like we're trying to smell each other, dude. That really looks like you. By the way, I think one of you ad-libbed in that, you smell like an athlete. You smell like an athlete. In a way that you're just so happy.

You smell like an athlete. So my point is, I was doing it as an intellectual exercise, and these guys made it something more and it's all about their, you get lucky on a TV show when what you're watching feels even more real because the undercurrent of it, their intense friendship is real. You know, I also like that when we meet people nowadays, they're so eager to talk about their best friend and how much they love their best friend, you know what I mean? And that makes me feel great. He's the brown bear to my vanilla bear or you know what I mean?

I honestly think it gave us a certain community of men who watched the show and were open to it, sort of permission to be more true to who they were. Mark, if you want to indulge, my version of Googling my own name is I'll occasionally go looking at all these wedding videos where the best man sings guy love to the groom. They're fantastic. There's like a thousand of them out there. And it always starts with a fake setup. He's like, you know, I was trying to think of what to toast and what to blah, blah, blah.

And I thought it's probably better to do in song than it takes the facts. And then the groom always stands up with a microphone too, because they've rehearsed it 20 times. And I'm at home by myself just going like this. All right, Mark, thank you for two awesome questions. Thanks man. Thanks for having me, that was great. All right, stay safe.

Nice meeting you, Mark. Hey, stay safe, buddy. Take care. Be healthy. Bill, why does Nurse Roberts have so many bowling shoes for sale? Look, one of the things that we embraced on Scrubs early on was surreal jokes just for us.

Okay. And we were trying to think, I remember this, and we wanted this to be a runner and we dropped it. We shouldn't have dropped it, but you know, you get too busy. When you were fantasizing about talking to think, I remember this, and we wanted this to be a runner, and we dropped it, we shouldn't have dropped it, but you know, you get too busy. When you were fantasizing about talking to Turk, we started going down a path of going, what he doesn't realize is he's in a topic

with Nurse Roberts, and she's got a side hustle. And we were like, what's your side hustle? It's selling her dead husband's bowling shoes. But he didn't even bowl, she's just got like 20 pairs of bowling shoes that she tries to unload to people. I thought that was so funny. And I forgot that joke. And then when Donald showed up wearing them, I just laughed out loud. I thought that was so funny. Check it out, he's a Nurse Roberts.

And then I thought, I got to ask Bill, just the logic behind it. Why is Nurse Robert's side hustle selling her husband's bowling shoes? She's just always looking to get a step ahead, man. I just love that joke because the same way I told you that Neil's joke meant that he and the duck were both wearing shirts, even though that wasn't said aloud. That joke means that while you were fantasizing about Turk, apropos of nothing, Nurse Robert said, Hey, is there any chance you ever be interested in buying some used bowling shoes? Is that something that you would want? Because then you snap out of it. You're like, I do, I would really want that. Yeah. When I come out of the, when I come out of the fantasy, she says something like,

so the checks in your locker or something. No, cause I got them in my locker. Oh yeah. You want to write me a check?? No, she goes, no, because I got them in my locker. Oh yeah. You want to write me a check? You want to write me a check because I got them in my locker. So I picture her locker is just stacks. Stacked bowling shoes. Every couple of days, she sells someone a pair of bowling shoes. It's just a little side hustle. Bill touched on this at 1937. There's the very first thing we did a lot with stunts on Scrubs called the Cowboy Switch. And just if you go back and watch it, what happens is the camera never cuts, but I'm

running down the hall and then the camera without cutting goes behind a cart, which switches to the stunt man, who then goes and does a really hard fall on the ground. The camera can't find me and comes back and like a magic trick, I've switched back to where I was. This was a really clever thing that we used to do a bunch of times on the show in order to do a really harder fall that needed to be a stuntman.

And I wonder, Bill, is that something Adam brought or something a stuntman brought or you knew about? How did those start coming into the show? Adam pitched very hard. The thing we already spoke about is on this show, the camera is a character because it's almost an extension of JD's head. You know, he's narrating for this camera that doesn't exist.

So that was Adam. It's why he directed it. I remember him even saying, just so you know, I think he shot one without it, but he's like, just so you know, when we do the cowboy switch to buy time, the camera's gonna look around for JD. And I remember going like, what? He's like, it's gonna go like that.

It's gonna try and find its owner. It's like a dog when you disappear. You know what I mean? And so that was Adam. And that dude, Noon, was all about the cowboy switches because he and Ernie, the two stuntmen, always, by the way, it's our favorite joke, Zach, Ernie, a great stuntman, but it's like,

always be wary of a stuntman who no longer has any of his own teeth. Or hair. He had a big set of great white teeth. I'm like, what happened to your real teeth? So yeah, the end is they said, the stunts on this show, you want this stuff to all look real and not silly.

Let's have our thespians and you guys both did some, do them as much as we can, whether it's driving a scooter into the water or sliding under the cart or cowboy switches. And it helps sell the reality of that clumsiness. I thought it was awesome. And when we get to the Wizard of Oz episode, there's the most epic cowboy switch

that we'll talk about where the scooter goes into the puddle, but stay tuned for that. The friend zone, Bill, that is one of the funniest articulations of the friend zone. I noticed this time that everybody's dressed in beige. That's my first favorite. That's my first favorite and one of my all-time favorite fantasies ever. It's such a smart way to describe the fantasy. I would have done that fantasy in a world of streaming where you don't have time limits for 10 minutes.

I would have wanted to hear where everybody costs pass with it. My favorite wasn't even Becky being in there. My favorite was the guy going, we work together at Penguins. Because in my head, I'm like, that guy and Elliot barely had shifts together. They just occasionally overlapped at Penguin's yogurt and he was just like, yeah, I'll cover your shifts. I just love the cleverness of in Elliot's mind, none of those people stood out. So

everybody's dressed in a shade of beige. Yeah, they're all blending in. They're all just people that drifted through life. You know, the last thing I don't know, Donald, you have anything else? But the last thing from the show that I wrote down that I thought was really funny, I don't know if we ever did it again, is that you're using rowdy mouth to open up the beers. That was the last thing I had to I was gonna ask you, I thought rowdy I thought rowdy should have always it should have always been a bottle opener but I think that's the

first time we introduced your dead dog without I don't think we had any lines referencing it did we? No no he's zero lounge restaurant. No no no oh you mean was he an episode two? Yeah he's in episode two but that's when we introduced him. That's when we introduced him. Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah okay I loved you knowdy is, that's I think something more than, shockingly more than anything that people would go now. Is there a dead dog that's a character in this show? A real stuffed dead dog? That would be a huge issue.

Bill, I don't know if the urban legend is true, and I really don't want you to correct it if it's not, but Donald and I were discussing in an earlier episode of the podcast that when one of the prop men was let go, he hid Rowdy in the ceiling tiles of the prop room. That's true. That's true. That is true.

I told you. I told you. It's true. Yeah. We had to let someone go for different reasons and he knew that that was a prop that he had that was a character on the show. So he tried to get us back by hiding it above the tiles. He locked himself in there and hid that poor dead dog above the tiles.

And by the way, we found it right away, so when we got an extra one, we were only getting an extra one in case something ever happened to the real one, but part of the lore became that we got an extra dead dog to replace the one that was lost, but it's not. It's just the generate, it's just in a weird way, that's what generated that story of what would we do.

And then Bill, that gave birth to a beautiful, very moving storyline of introducing Steven, the other. I was already laughing with Donald. Who got Steven in the end? Did you get Rowdy or did you get Steven? I got nothing. Neither of them. They're all. I told you this story. No, I don't mean that. I mean when we break so we don't live together anymore at one point.

Who gets who? Oh, I forgot who got Rowdy and who got Steven. I don't remember. But Bill, I was laughing with Donald about how someone can't tell the difference. And I feel where their old taxidermy balls are. And I go, no, that's Steven. You knew one of them was fixed. where their old taxidermy balls are. And I go, no, that's Steven. You knew one of them was fixed. This is so... Rowdy, hit that. I think that's Donald's line to open season two.

Yeah, Rowdy, hit that. Yeah, Rowdy, hit that. See, I don't know if today you could do taxidermy dead dogs humping someone's leg. Yeah, I don't know. It's a whole new level of bestiality. A whole new level. Everybody, not to make this an end line,

but this was such a fun exercise for me because everybody always asks me what my favorite episode of Scrubs is, and I don't know how you guys feel. I always say the pilot because it reminds me of first meeting you all and of the experience and the people so much more than any specific episode. So when I watch these like the first one,

two or three episodes, that's what I remember is seeing you two idiots become friends and having to deal with the pluses and minuses of that when you came in crazy hungover to work. But also when I would see your friendship on screen, and seeing how people were afraid of Johnny C and how that translated, and seeing Donald's chemistry with Judy,

and Zach and Sarah's puppy dog love for each other. I mean, it was fantastic. So that's what this stuff takes me back to, is how cool it is that not only that you two are still friends, but that we all still spend time together and talk. I say I love a lot, I've noticed, but I truly do love that about what we've done together.

We didn't just build a television show together. It wasn't just you created a show, we acted in it, see you later. We become like a family. And when we see each other other it's so amazing. And you know, I don't see everybody as much as I see the two of you, but it's always, it's always dope. You know what I mean? I enjoy, I know I'm going to laugh. I know I'm going to, you know what I mean? I know I'm going to feel good. It's always great to be around y'all.

It makes me happy. Thank you so much, Bill, for coming on. And I hope that you'll do this. I mean, it makes sense of all people for you to come on a bunch to this, because I hope you will. Because people seem to be really liking it, which makes us smile. And it makes so much sense to have you on whenever you're willing to come on.

You know what I thought you could do? You can either use this, cut it, or take this pitch and do it from now on. On any podcast that I'm not on, if you guys run into a question with the guest or with each other, why did this happen or is this true, you can fire it off to me. I will voice memo record a one line response

that you can edit in. Oh, that's great. That's great. I love that. That's very smart. We could be like, all right, Joelle, we need a Bill voice note answer on this question. And then we'll just cut it in when we do the podcast editing.

I love that. Yeah, as if I'm hovering there all the time, which I will not be. This is great what you guys are doing. I love you both. I miss you both. Thank you. And we love you.

And thank you. And we ended the last episode by giving a shout out to the medical community. And I think it's right to do it since we were a show about a hospital, just to give all our love to anybody who's listening to this, who has anyone fighting on the front lines of this insanity. Thank you so much for your courage and for being there for all of us. And yeah, there's a thousand things you can do to be of service. You can write a check or you can call your friend that's working at a hospital and talk

to him or her every night just to see how they're doing. But spend a few minutes and do it. Thank you so much. And on that note, Donald, will you lead us in song? Yeah. A five, a six, a five, six. Here's some stories about a show we made, about a bunch of docs and nurses and a janitor who loved the hay.

I said, here's a story that we all should know. So gather round to hear our, gather round to hear our, Scratch Rewatch Show with Zach and Donno. Calling all Yellowstone fans. Let's go to work. Join Bobby Bones on the official Yellowstone podcast for exclusive cast interviews, behind the scenes insights, and a deep dive into the themes that have made Yellowstone a cultural phenomenon.

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