Family Trips with the Meyers Brothers - BILL GATES Loved Going to Camp Cheerio

Episode Date: February 18, 2025

This week, Seth and Josh are joined by Bill Gates! Bill talks all about growing up Washington, the way his parents supported his love for computers, going to Camp Cheerio, his Wordle obsession (and what he does to play before Midnight), where he’s taken his own kids on vacations all over the world, his favorite card games, and so much more! Plus, Bill chats about his new memoir, Source Code! Watch more Family Trips episodes: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlqYOfxU_jQem4_NRJPM8_wLBrEEQ17B6 Family Trips is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Theme song written and performed by Jeff Tweedy. -------------------------Support our sponsors:NissanFamily Trips is brought to you by the All-New 2025 Nissan Armada. Take youradventures to new heights. Learn more at NissanUSA.com AirbnbVisit airbnb.com and book today BluelandBlueland has a special offer for listeners. Right now, get 15% off your first order by going to Blueland.com/TRIPS How did this get madeTune in to How Did This Get Made?—the podcast that makes bad movies better. -------------------------About the Show:Lifelong brothers Seth Meyers and Josh Meyers ask guests to relive childhood memories, unforgettable family trips, and other disasters! New Episodes of Family Trips with the Meyers Brothers are available every Tuesday. Executive Producers: Rob Holysz & Jeph Porter Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Coordinating Producer: Derek Johnson Mix & Master: Josh Windisch Episode Artwork: Analise Jorgensen

This episode of Family Trips is brought to you by the all new 2025 Nissan Armada. Take your adventures to new heights. Learn more at NissanUSA.com. Hi Pachi. Hi Sufi. I feel bad because we gave mom and dad's living room some grief. Oh yeah. Well, I feel like you did more than I did. I think we, collectively, no one remembers who said what. This is guilt by association.

We gave some grief to the living room. Dad took offense, obviously. Yeah, because he brought it up in his bottle episode. And then again on the Thanksgiving episode of the television show. So he's used almost every airwave at his disposal to defend all of the stuff in his living room, being nice furniture.

So a pipe burst and all of that furniture that I've been sort of busting on got doused. It's gone forever now. Yeah, also the pipe was in your room. Yeah, but I mean, that's basically an office at this point. Yeah, but I don't know, if there's a source of the damage, it's your room, not my room.

I would only say my regret is that there wasn't a leak from the attic into my room so that they had to replace my childhood bed. Because when I come home and sleep on that, it is, from the attic into my room so that they had to replace my childhood bed. Because when I come home and sleep on that, it is, or I mean, by the way, you couldn't replace, you wouldn't even have to replace the pillow because it's like when a rock gets wet,

you don't replace it. Yeah, well, I don't know, I don't know. Yeah. I had some dissatisfaction with my pillows at some point and I just sent new pillows home. Yeah, I don't know. Don't you, do you, don't you feel like it's incumbent upon a parent to give their child a pillow?

There are pillows all over the house. Yeah, I know, but they're weird pillows, man. Anyway, I do feel bad mom and dad have, and I think mom, now there's like a big industrial dryer in the house and mom is not, she doesn't care much for the loudness. Yeah, and it's like, she's been doing a lot because our dad got his pretty foot.

So he had this foot surgery to, which from all reports is really moving ahead wonderfully. But she's been taking care of dad. And now in addition to that, there's just a huge fan that you I'm sure can hear throughout the whole house and it's gonna be running. When she sent us an email about it, it was a Thursday and the people weren't coming to actually do the work

until Monday. So yeah. She was not happy about it. Yeah. She is not as they say a fan. weren't coming to actually do the work until Monday. So yeah, she was not happy about it. Yeah. She is not, as they say, a fan. You're correct. Yeah.

Hey, there's something I wonder, I don't know if you want, and I don't wanna get it for you yet. Okay. Norovirus? Oh yeah, no, I don't wanna. Okay, then I would not come to my home today. Oh wow, do you guys all have it?

Alexi and her brother, Tolia, have norovirus right now. Oh my God. They're like, if there's a new illness you can get, those two are probably at the top of my list. Oh, they get it. Top of my list, yeah. It's like they sleep out for tickets for new, yeah. They get, right, they get like the email code

three days before the rest of us. Yeah, they're like, oh, H1N1? And you're like, what is that? And they're like, we already have it. Preferred customer for Bird Flu. They get a promo code. What a bummer. Yeah, but I had, and then I had to get, so I got all,

by the way, look, I'm not any kind of hero for getting three kids to school, but I brought three kids to school. And on top of everything else, it was 40 degrees today. And I think that if it's, I basically said 27 or lower, we can get a car. Yeah. We can Uber to school.

Yeah. But like 40 degrees, it was 40 a car. Yeah. We can Uber to school. Yeah. But like 40 degrees, it was 40 was fine. Axel was screaming. He didn't want to go. Addie got in her head that it was raining. It was not raining and she had to bring an umbrella. So it was just on top of getting three kids out the door. I had a couple of other things going,

which was I then had a child in a stroller who had an umbrella up and was like basically obstructed. I had obstructed view, walked to school. But I had a really fun thing and I can't remember even what got started. But I started telling them about every time I could remember somebody charged the mound in a baseball game. Oh, that's funny. It was the funniest thing they'd ever heard.

I told them about how Nolan Ryan was like an older pitcher and he hit Robin Ventura who was a younger guy and he charged them out and then Nolan Ryan, the old guy got him in a headlock and started punching them and they were just scream laughing. Wow. And I just can't, so that was, and it's sometimes just, it is that thing, like deflection is such a better tool. Yeah.

Instead of talking about let's get a taxi, we're gonna talk about the history of bean balls as your father remembers them. It's so much more effective than the other plan, which is me being like, well, I'm taking a fucking car. It's not raining. It's not raining, Addy, it's not raining.

Do you think Addy just wants accessories? Do you think she's just accessorizing her walk to school? I really think she thought it was raining. I don't know what to tell you. But then we had to make a light. So we had to run real fast. So I told the boys, run. And I'm pushing her in the stroller and they were running.

And it really, it was also windy. And so her umbrella was like getting lifted up and she had to hold onto it to keep it from flying away. And she was delighted and then kept saying that she wanted me to, if I pushed fast enough, she would fly away. Oh yeah, that's fun. We were, McKenzie and I were out the other day for dinner

and there was some like oldies track on the radio, on the, you know, playing in the restaurant. And I remember when we were little, and I don't know if it's a function of just when you're little or if it's a function of our parents, but I was asking Mackenzie, were oldies a big thing for you when you were young? And I feel like there's sort of

is a certain time in your life, but maybe it's just us, maybe when we grew up. But have your kids, are they into oldies at all? No, but I think one thing was we listened to the radio more than our kids did, right? I remember listening to either oldies rock or classic rock. Yeah.

Also like oldies, the saddest thing is when you realize like, oh, arcade fire is maybe oldies. Well, I think- Or it's at least classic rock. You're saying oldies is always oldies and it's not a sliding scale. Yeah, I think oldies will always be oldies. Oldies is like what, like 50 to 69?

Yeah, it's sort of like it's some, like Motown-y stuff and yeah. Bop-a-da-bop-a-dang-ba-dang-bang-bang-ba-dumb-bang. That's it. Because I feel like there's something about that music that kids really like. And I remember like trying to play a song for your kids and they weren't into it and they were like,

we wanna hear like bumping up and down in a little red wagon. And I was like, oh, that's where you guys are right now. I think they've grown out of that a little bit. Thank God. But it's tricky to get them to like. What if you never did? Yeah, what if you never did?

Yeah, what if they're just like in a full adult. A farmer in the dell, a farmer in the dell. Rafi, they're still just super into Rafi. That Rafi is there, Taylor Swift. But now I feel like Alexi will just play sort of her mix, which is just sort of a, say somewhere in the spectrum of Jackson Brown to Counting Crows, which I feel like is the kind of music that kids that age can listen to that makes,

takes no purchase at all in their memory. Yeah. You know what I mean? Cause easy listening is not, I don't think any kid who's like nine is like, I'm super into yacht rock. I don't think any kid who's like nine is like, I'm super into yacht rock. You know?

Um, yeah. We have a very fascinating guest today. Yeah, this is one that I was like, really? He wants to come on? Yeah. Yeah. So we talked to Bill Gates. I did restrain myself from saying, where Clippy at?

Do you now having had the conversation with him, do you think he would have reacted well if I said where Clippy at? I think he's very fast. Like he's got a fast processing speed. So I think- But I feel like he would very quickly process that he did not care for that.

Yeah, I think that's very possible. I will say, he's written a book called Source Code about his formative years and sort of not about necessarily him starting a huge tech company, but it is about his beginnings in computers. But it's about his beginnings as a child growing up outside of Seattle. And there are a couple very funny things.

I did laugh a couple of times just in reading the book. And I'm not, you know, looking to start a tech company or something like that, but I really, really enjoyed his book. And yeah, interesting, interesting cat. I did enjoy talking to him, but if your purpose was to listen and find out where Clippy at, it does not come up. Sadly. Do enjoy.

Yeah. Family trips with the Mice Brothers. Family trips with the Mice Brothers. Here we go. Hello, how are you? Hey there. I'm glad this brother, here to go. Hello, how are you? Hey there. I'm great. We've talked twice, Bill, and this is the second time. And in both cases, you have been incredibly prompt.

And my question to you is, were you prompt as a young person, or do you think your life has made promptness a necessity? You know, running Microsoft meant that I had a pretty complicated schedule and lots of things going on. And so, no, I was not prompt as a kid. Well, you did. You mentioned in your book that your clocks were sent to mom time. Was that eight minutes forward? But that was her thing to try and make sure that, you know,

she got all of us upstairs and ready to go and not late. She seemed to care more about being on time than I did. Yeah, I mean, I feel like setting the clocks forward for my wife at home. It feels like good policy to get someone a little bit more on task. How old were you when you realized your mom was pulling a fast one with the clocks?

Pretty quickly. Now math was my strong suit. Yeah, it didn't seem like something to sneak by Bill Gates. Yeah. So you have two siblings, and what is the age difference between you and your siblings? I have an older sister, two years older,

who I really grew up with. And then my younger sister is nine years younger. I was surprisingly close to her given that. But, you know, I headed off thinking I would never even come back to Seattle when she was still in fourth grade. How did you and your sister feel when you received the news that, as I guess a 9- and 11-year-old, you were about to get a younger sibling?

Well, it was wild because it meant we had to give up our dog, who was a great dog, and we had to change neighborhoods. And even though that house that they bought the lot that was supposed to be for their retirement was a nicer house, that really bothered me that I was giving up the teachers and school that I was used to.

But, you know, it ended up working out just great. Now, see, this might be another fast one, because I don't think technically you have to give a dog away when you have a new kid. Well, this dog was an old English sheepdog, and if you didn't have a good-sized yard, wouldn't have worked well. So it did end up getting out to a farm, and they told us that it was doing well. We're not sure. Yeah, we actually, we've had six old English sheepdogs in our family. Oh, wow.

They've all been named, yeah, all named Albert. So we've kept it consistent. And Albert the sixth is with our parents on three acres up in New Hampshire and very happy for it. Well, that's a fun dog. Mine was Crumpet. Crumpet's a good name. I will say, I think that's a reflection of a good childhood when your parents tell you the dog went to a farm

and it was true. I think it was true. I mean, the bunnies that we got at Easter, who knows what happened to them. Yeah. Hard to keep track of bunnies. And you had one of the, and just sort of reading your book, you have a vacation that I'm so jealous of.

Was it Camp Cheerio that you went to? Yeah. Every year, we'd get a group of families and had out there for a couple of weeks. And a lot of activities, you know, kind of a mini Olympics and having to go to other people's houses for meals and campfires where we'd sing lots of songs. That was a fun deal. And it was 10 families and you would like,

everyone had their own cabin. Exactly. Am I correct? Yeah. That just sounds like heaven to me. Were you, were these Olympics all for fun, or was there a competitive undertone? Did you, young Bill Gates, actually care

if you won the Olympics? No, I cared a lot. There was no prize money involved. You know, maybe some token award, but we all got into it, whether it was three-legged race or egg toss, pretty creative stuff. And our family kind of has this tradition

getting people over to do games like that. So we carried that on even into my adulthood. What were, were you a card-playing family? Yeah, we played a massive amount of cards. My grandmother was fantastic. We played every game in the Book of Oil, but gin, rummy, canasta, Coast Guard rummy, even some bridge.

Your grandmother was a big part of your life? She was. Her husband had passed away when I was five, and so she, particularly as my parents got busy, was the one who was there when we came home from school, and a pretty amazing person who read to us a lot, took us to the library, almost like a third parent. At what age did you realize that you maybe liked

the idea of reading more than your peers? Well, the local library had this thing in the summer where you'd say, okay, I read five books, 10 books. And so as the summer went on, you know, I got to 25 books. I was like, wow, it's me and a bunch of girls. And eventually I even topped them, but I was the only boy on that whole chart. So it was like, boy, what is going on with me? What are these guys doing that I'm missing out on?

But you also, you were very adventurous in terms of the hiking trips that you took. I feel like it's something that someone wouldn't expect from sort of a techie like you, but you were very outdoorsy as a kid. Yeah, it was the group of guys that I fell in with. I was always the most reluctant and probably the least competent of that group.

But the idea that we'd get away, you know, it's a different group of friends where you're trying different things out, you know, you have a tiny bit of hardship so you feel like, oh, the food tastes really good when you finally get it, or when you finally get to camp. So that was, yeah, one thing that living in that area, you know, we had unbelievable hiking experiences.

Yeah. Were you the kind of kid that, you know, we do activities with our children, and they're always happy when they're there, but it is a lot getting them out the door. Were you sort of quick to go out the door, or did you fight the idea of we're about to go on a hike? No, I'd be... Well, the hikes were something

that I chose to do, not, you know, where my parents were saying, hey, here we go, you got to come along or, you know, talk to all these adults. So, by the time it's the hikes, I better be on time and ready and everything or else my parents are going to be like, okay, why are you doing this at all? So by then I was good at getting ready. And, you know, my dad wouldn't come on the hikes, but he was good about being willing to come pick us up and take us for burgers afterwards.

That's a good thing. But they were, you did like, you did some multi-day, like fully getting lost with just a bunch of boys out in the woods kinds of hikes. Yeah, it's kind of unbelievable how parents, particularly for boys, would let you go off and do things that today you'd think, oh my God, he could get hurt, you know, how would we know? You know, even just thinking back on it,

it was so different that we had off for six days and do a 50 mile hike and, you know, they were comfortable with that. What did they even say when you go out the door? Just sort of like, be careful? Bye. Bye. Yeah, I mean, you know, my dad did some of those things. He was a boy scout and because I wasn't that athletic,

in a way, I think they didn't want to discourage it. But even trips I would take back to Washington, D.C., where I was a page, parents just didn't worry like they do now about what unlikely thing might happen. It is so interesting, because, of course, now, it's easier than ever to know exactly where your kid is to get in contact with your kid, and yet, still, you're right.

Like, the fear persists. And it's such a shame. Yeah, even hanging out in the neighborhood now, you might be worried, you know, what's going to happen. And there's a lot of talk worried, you know, what's gonna happen. And there's a lot of talk that, you know, maybe we've gone overboard on the safety thing. Hey, we're gonna take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors.

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Explore further with the Nissan Armada Pro 4X. Learn more at NissanUSA.com. Intelligent four-wheel drive cannot prevent collisions or provide enhanced traction in all conditions. Always monitor traffic and weather conditions. Support for family trips comes from Airbnb. Hey, Bashi. Yes, Sufi.

You know, some trips are better in an Airbnb. Let me tell you what I liked most about the last trip we took with you and mom and dad. We didn't have one bathroom. Oh yeah, we had three, maybe even four. You know what, we had a bathroom situation. Dad was so impressed with the master bathroom that he kept telling us we should go take a shower

in his room. Yeah, which I didn't, I never did. I never did. He kept saying, you gotta, it was really good. You know what, when Dad visits us, you know what he does with the kids that Alexi's not crazy about? What's that? He lets him eat toothpaste right out of the tube.

So that's why I didn't take a shower at his Airbnb bathroom, is I didn't know if I could resist that sweet, sweet toothpaste snack. Yeah. Look, it's really nice. I love our proximity to mom and dad when we're with them. But I also enjoy there's a little bit of space that a hotel room does not provide. And then it's great to have a living room, because a living room is yours, and it feels like home,

and it's not a lobby. Yeah. Also, dad is prone to sprawl. Yeah. He's the original man spreader. He's the original man spreader. He's the original man spreader. If he was getting residuals every time somebody man spread, the guy would be a billionaire.

So it's nice. The way dad sits on a couch in a lobby, I think would be sort of unbecoming of a gentleman his age. But you know, get him in an Airbnb living room. Go nuts, dad. And the other thing is, sometimes you might, you know, hey, does this Airbnb look as good as it seems to look in the pictures? Why not try a guest favorite?

Those are the most loved homes on Airbnb that can give you that extra sense of confidence. Book your next awesome trip today at airbnb.com. Hey, Pashi! Yeah, Sufi. Support comes from Blue Land. Did you know that? I did. Yeah, they're supporting us. And did you also know that an estimated 5 billion plastic hand soap and cleaning bottles are thrown away each year?

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That's blueland.com slash trips. Here we go. You, to this day, you still believe in cabin vacation. Is it true that you do two weeks a year? I like to go off and do thinking. So some of that I do just by myself to read a lot and try to make sure I'm up to date on things. And then when it's a fun vacation, yeah, I love,

a lot of my vacations are near a beach. I like walking on a beach. I don't know why that's so attractive, but beaches all over the world. I've loved trying them all out. Yeah, it is, I mean, just approaching a beach. If you, I live in Los Angeles and it's not often that I see the beach,

but when you do, it is something, it takes your breath away. It is, it's a real thing. And yeah, to walk along a beach, it's a great place to think. I'm very jealous about this week by yourself vacation for the purposes of reading. And again, my kids- So I've got three young children.

Yeah, it would be wrong for me to do it. Your kids are older. But when you say you read to catch up on stuff, when you get away for a week and it's a thinking, reading vacation and there's no phone and ideally no television, are you reading nonfiction? Are you, what is it that you are trying to consume over the course of a week?

Now those vacations called Think Weeks are very much nonfiction. That got going when I was CEO of Microsoft and there was just so much going on that unless I put aside as much as two weeks a year for this, then I would get out of date on the cutting-edge technology or thinking through our strategy,

and knowing what other people are up to. So I jammed that onto the calendar, and I kept doing it a bit after I was CEO, although my life is less intense now than when I was CEO of a gigantic company. When you would leave for a week, I mean, I assume you tell people, I'm going to be gone for a week, I mean, I assume you tell people, I'm going to be gone for a week,

you can't get in touch with me, but I can't imagine how often they would want to get in touch with you over the course of a week. Did they listen? Did they actually give you your space? Well, I didn't take phone calls. I mean, if there had been an emergency, they could have called and I'd only check email a couple couple times a day

because I was mostly just sitting there, underlining books, taking notes from books, trying to make sure that by the end of it, I could write something that would keep us ahead of all our smart competitors. Were they, do you think they were nervous about when you got back? Because you would have done a week of thinking and they'd be like, oh boy, he's going to have a lot of, Bill's going to have a lot of ideas.

A lot of new ideas. Yeah, I mean they would, hopefully, you know, they found that a positive thing. And I didn't usually come back and, you know, with negative news. It was more okay, we were lucky we were growing so much that it was mostly okay. What additional things should we be doing, not so much having to shut things down? Obviously, after you meet with a good deal of success, you have the ability to take different vacations.

Did you take your parents on trips? Did you go on multi-generational vacations? Yeah, my dad had a tradition that when grandchildren turned 10, that they could ask to go anywhere in the world for a two or three week trip. And my dad was slowing down a little bit when my son Rory asked to go to Antarctica. And so that's the last really long trip I did with my dad.

Because his last 10 years, he got Alzheimer's and was a little less able to travel. But that was a cherished vacation because we got so much time and, you know, seen things that none of us had ever seen before. Three weeks feels like it's a long time for Antarctica. Is it? I know it's not easy to get to, but at some point is it like that's there's another iceberg and oh there's another one. Well, yeah, the penguins, that one was only two weeks, but yes, eventually the penguins and the smell of penguins, you're like, wow, are we back at the same place? So you get a little bit of that.

Yeah, I went on one safari and I did think, God, it's, the humans are the most jaded people because the first giraffe you see in person is the most stunning of God's creations. And then by day three, you're like, will that giraffe get out of my eyeline? I'm trying to see these beautiful vistas and this giraffe. Do you think your dad was excited

when he heard that your son wanted to go to Antarctica? Do you think he rolled his eyes at it? Because it does seem like a 10 year old's choice that maybe hasn't been thought through. I bet he was excited. He had always a good attitude towards things. Because he was 6'7", and getting on and off the boat, we were all kind of worried, would that go well?

But fortunately, we didn't have any difficulty with it. I wanted to go back to Camp Cheerio. I feel like your mother spearheaded this idea that I think is fascinating. And it was the dinners where you would eat with other parents. Can you explain that a little bit and how that was and if there were any dud parents in the group that you didn't want to get? Yeah, that was always a little bit concerning that, you know, what kind of food do these people serve? And, you know, they expect me to talk about what.

Because each kid would have to, you'd choose a name, a family name, and the kids would have to go eat with another set of parents and every kid would be in a different cabin. You were randomly assigned, so each family ended up with the same number of kids they would normally have. And yeah, you had to eat whatever they decided to serve you and play whatever games they decided were their games. And so you got a little glimpse of what those families were like on a normal night. Yeah, we have a friend whose father was famous for, if you got up at a big dinner to go to the bathroom

or whatever, he would take your chair and he would just like go sit at a different part of the table. His name was Charlie Moscos and we call it Charlie Moscosing and we do it and it's such a good way to mix things up and I feel like your mother really took it to another level with that and forcing kids to eat with other parents. Yeah, I really admire that.

Yeah, she pushed me in a lot of ways socially, which was very unnatural for me, but in the end, it was a huge favor. Do you think she did it because she felt like you maybe needed a push that way? She expected her kids to be like she was, where she just always remembered everything about people and was so enthused to see people. I think she was a little surprised that her son in particular, that was so unnatural because for her it took no effort at all. She always loved having people come over.

It was both fun, it was good for my dad's career, but she must have been stunned that I was so inept. Well, you talk about, you know, in your book, you say that, you know, in today's age, you probably would have been diagnosed on, you diagnosed on the autism spectrum in some place. Do you think that without that diagnosis she also was clocking, oh, Bill might need a different set of tools and did she work hard to provide them? I don't know if it was intentional, but everything they did, they had me talk to a therapist which was really unheard of back then. They made a bit of a sacrifice to send me to a private school with really small class

sizes that was super helpful. And of course, that's where I'm lucky enough to get to use a computer at a very young age when most people aren't getting that exposure. So I doubt it was thought out, but it ended up being perfect that she pushed me socially. And when you, like, do you remember their reaction the first time you sort of, or maybe you didn't, but like, what was it like when you started telling them how you were interested in computers?

Because I would imagine to their generation that seemed just very out there. No, it was clearly, it was like, what is this? You know, you're addicted to this thing and maybe that's a good thing, but don't forget, there are conventional things that you need to do. My senior of high school, there was a job where I'd gotten good enough that

a company wanted to hire me and they were a little aghast. But fortunately, the headmaster at my school said, no, this kid's going to get into college, don't worry about it. Let him go do his thing. So that was just another exposure so that I was, you know, ready to write great software at a time when the magic of these personal computers was going to make that really

relevant. But they were always a little unclear what it was all about. Even when I drop out, you know, they're glad that the school policy lets you go back after you drop out if what you're doing doesn't work out. It's so funny to think of a time where when you're on a computer all the time,

which is, you know, when you're in your teens, there's really nothing much to do on the computer other than to get better at computer. You know what I mean? Like, there's no distraction. Now it's where every distraction in the world lives. And if your kid's on a computer all day, I don't think you have any expectation they're getting better at computing.

But that was really it, right? Like, when you were on a computer, you never got up having not become better at computing. Yeah, that was about writing software, okay? How do you get the computer to print the payroll checks? How do you get the computer to print the payroll checks? How do you get the computer to schedule the classes, make the classes so that everybody gets to take all the things they want to do?

And so yes, it was not socialization or even writing documents. It was about data and software. So most of the kids found that computer terminal pretty boring, even the ones who came in at first. Eventually there were four of us who were completely hooked and that became a big deal for the rest of our life. And were you hooked on the problem solving of it?

Yeah, the immediacy of this program did work, this program didn't work. And even in math that I liked, you had to find problems and was it a big deal that you solved the problem? But here, the idea that, okay, can we make it play a board game? We worked on a Monopoly game. Can you make it simulate war type things?

Why are humans so good at some things and computers are good at other things? So I kept having to push myself. And there were adults around that kind of got a kick out of me who would say, no, you can write this better or here's how you solve this problem. I got so much of that, that I was perfectly positioned for the time when computers would start to expand. Our crazy idea there'd be one in every home, you know, which people ridiculed, you know, we were right about that.

You mentioned solving problems. I hope this is true. Is it true that you enjoy Wordle? Absolutely. I do. Octoral, cordal, wordle, connections, spelling bee, every day. All right, great. So I have a lot of questions. Do you have the same first word for word, every day. All right, great. So I have a lot of questions. Do you have the same first word for wordle every day? I usually use trace. Okay. I use stare and then I went off of it

because my mother said you should always use a new word and I was like, yeah, she's right. That gets boring. And then stare was the word maybe a month and a half ago and I was furious. That's why I can't change my first word because I want that rush. It's right. That's good. Gets boring. And then stare was the word maybe a month and a half ago. And I was furious. That's why I can't change my first word because I want that rush. It's coming. It's coming.

You're one. Yeah, I know somebody, the first time they used the game they typed in and got five green letters and they were like, well, what do I do now? Yeah. We, I know somebody too. Our friend Colin Jost on SNL did Tiger his first time. And then he sent it to me and said, is this how it works?

Somebody, somebody. What? All right, so what about Spelling Bee? How far do you go? Do you get genius and stop or do you keep going? I go to Queen Bee every day, but I am willing for the last couple, if most people aren't getting them,

I am willing to use clues on if most people aren't getting them I am willing to use clues on a bad day for say two or three Like like today, you know Lanolin Yep I couldn't think of Lanolin. I don't know what's wrong with me. I know well a lot You know, I think you should be ashamed. I think you should be ashamed of yourself And you certainly have fallen a great deal in my estimation based on this Lanolin myth.

It's a, I think that is, I mean, I didn't even know there was Queen Bee and a friend of mine told me, and now of course I do. I think I use a lot more hints than you, but I do, I cannot rest until I get Queen Bee. Now thank God for those people who come up with the hints. I know, they're very good at that. Real quick also on this puzzle question,

our father spends hours every day doing all these puzzles. I would say he's probably at about three hours a day. Do you ever have to cut yourself off and be like, I don't have enough time for these puzzles? Or what's your daily puzzle allotment that you'll give yourself? These things are pretty quick. I mean, the one thing I do that's weird is

because a lot of them are available at midnight, I'll adjust my clock or to Perth, Australia so I can do them before midnight. So otherwise, if I'm up at 11, I think, oh, I just have to stay up another hour and that's not a good idea. See, this is, again, you inherited this from your mom. You can always fudge the clock.

You can. Don't ever think time is a constant. Yeah, Einstein figured that out. Yeah, exactly. So you've been to a couple World's Fairs, or you went to a couple World's Fairs when you were younger. There was one in Seattle, I think. Yes. And that was, I mean, that, I've never been to a couple of World's Fairs when you were younger. There was one in Seattle, I think. Yes.

And that was, I mean, that, I've never been to a World's Fair. I don't know, did they stop just having them? No, they still have them. There was one in Dubai recently. Okay. And they're spectacular because, you know, countries are showing off their culture

and companies are trying to show off that they're, you know, like video phone is gonna, AT&T had the video phone. And so it makes you think, wow, the future is going to be pretty cool. It's very sort of Jetson like stuff. Yeah. And so when the World's Fair was in Seattle, could you go to that alone or was that a family? No, no. I went with my parents.

I was pretty young then. And then a couple of years later, there was one up in Montreal. And, you know, just amazing that you have all these country pavilions and different food and, no, I think that was spectacular. Yeah. Would you run around alone once you got there? Where was it sort of like you're in the confines of a Disney world-like place that-

Eventually they'd give me a little bit of time to go off and go to the exhibits that were more interesting to me. But during family vacations, we pretty much stuck together. We'd get a couple weeks in the summer where my dad would take part of it off. Like our trip to Disneyland in 1963, my mother and grandmother drove us down and my dad flew down and met us. But we read books the whole way and that was a

pretty special vacation. So driving down, are you reading alone or are you reading together? Like our mother used to read to us on trips. Were you being read to? Yeah, they read us Man of War, which is about a horse. No, I'm actually, I'm in Kentucky as we speak. I'm at the Maker's Mark Distillery in the middle of a tour. I haven't been drinking yet, but yeah. I hear it's good. It's all horse.

Yeah, I'll let you know after a couple more hours. Was travel an important part of raising your three kids? Yeah, I mean, I was lucky enough to be able to take the kids on lots of trips. In fact, we decided the highest grade where we could take the kids out for a couple months was eighth grade. So when my oldest Jen was in eighth grade,

we went and lived in Europe for a couple of months. And that was spectacular. We'd go to different countries every weekend. I got to teach math and science to the kids. So they got even more travel than I did because that was such a special part of my growing up. That is very funny. I think if I took my kids out for two months in eighth grade, I think their math and science would plummet.

And yet, one might argue yours got a better education than they would have, even if it was a very good school. Yeah. I love teaching math and science. I mean, some kids think it's boring, but if it's taught the right way, it's incredibly interesting. Are you, by nature, do you think you're a good teacher? Was that an important part of running your company,

being able to teach things to other people? Yes, I'm a student in, I love learning new things. And so, you know, when I moved to the foundation, I have to learn about health and all sorts of new things. If you're a very good student, the way you can see do you fully understand something is can you teach it? Can you really make it way simpler than it appears to be

and just say, no, no, no, there's a few simple concepts here. And so I love trying to teach something because it's the real test of do I deeply understand it is can I make it very simple for the person I'm explaining it to. Did you find your kids were all the same kind of learners like when you were trying to explain concepts to them? No, in fact, my son, who's an incredible student,

he chose not to focus as much on math and science. And I think that was because I was so into those things that he was better at history and economics and those things, which it was nice in a way, that then he was way better at me at that. So we didn't have to almost directly compare what we were good at. Yeah, I think I might try to do something different

than you as well, if I were your kid. Hey, we're gonna take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors. This episode of Family Trips is brought to you by Nissan. Hey, Sufi. Yeah, Pashi. What's that thing I always say about going big and it never going out of style?

Oh, I remember, going big never goes out of style. Yeah, that's it. And that's why we at Family Trips love partnering with Nissan, because they know that going big never goes out of style, especially when it comes to the 2025 Nissan lineup. And the Nissan vehicle we want to give a huge shout out to today, the all new Nissan Armada Pro 4X. Sufi, what's that thing I always say about the all new

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Let's name them right now. And we're out of time. So thanks again to Nissan for sponsoring this episode of Family Trips. Explore further with the Nissan Armada Pro 4X. Learn more at NissanUSA.com. Intelligent four-wheel drive cannot prevent collisions or provide enhanced traction in all conditions. Always monitor traffic and weather conditions. Support comes from the podcast, How Did This Get Made? Hey, Baji. Hey, Sufi. We make a podcast, but we also like listening to

podcasts. Oh, yeah. How Did This Get Made is one of my favorite podcasts because it has some of my favorite people as hosts. Yeah, these guys are incredible. It's June Diane Raphael, Jason Manzoukas, and Paul Scheer. And a lot of times they've got some great guests along with them, people like Seth Rogue and Nicole Byer, Adam Scott. It's a very good group.

They're three of the funniest improvisers I know, and they are just a joy to listen to as they discuss these terrible films. It's like, I'm not someone necessarily who is happy when you watch a bad movie, but there are those people out there who love it. And there's something about seeing a movie that is just so terrible that there's a real camaraderie that's built around that.

And they will take these movies and they pick them apart. And it's just a delight. The three of them, it should be said, are three of the most joyful people you can imagine. And they love movies, and they love talking about these movies. And they do it in a way where there is success in the failure of these films. Yeah, and a lot of their shows are live, and you can just feel how much people

love these conversations. I recently listened to an episode on Howard the Duck, and Kristen Schaal was a guest, and they just had their audience in Stitches and myself as well. How were the ducks first time I saw a condom on screen? And I didn't even know what it was. Yeah, there's a lot of discussion about that condom. Uh, because apparently ducks have Curly Q wieners. And it was, uh, was that condom a Curly Q condom or not? What are you waiting for?

Tune in to How Did This Get Made, the podcast that makes bad movies better. -♪ Here we go. Obviously, your kids grew up with a fair amount of privilege. Were you cognizant of that, and did you try to take them to parts of the world where they could see maybe how there's a great deal of inequality? I would imagine through the Foundation, that's a huge part of the travel as well. Absolutely, we went to lots of slums and we'd meet different families and things like that.

There were a few things that reminded me, wow, I was giving the kids an unusual upbringing. So when we went to meet a plane one time and all these people are coming off, my daughter said to me, how did they fit so many people on that plane? Oh boy. And I'm like, okay, I need to expose them

to the more real things. I like, she's like, it's like a clown plane. Yes, how did they pack them in there? You took a trip with your friend Kent's family on a sailboat when you were younger. Is that the only sailing trip you've ever taken and what, did you enjoy a sailing vacation? You know a sailboat is a, you don't get quite as much room as a motorboat, but I had done a lot of small boat sailing and so the idea of okay you have to figure out the wind and everything, I kind of got a kick out of that. sailing and so the idea of okay you have to figure out the wind and everything I

kind of got a kick out of that so I've done a number of sailboat trips you can down in the Caribbean you can lease a boat and do what they call bare boating that you get to captain it yourself and you know that that's nice but I've done more motorboat trips than sailboat trips I have to admit. Did you pass along game culture to your children? You grew up with it? Were you a family that would play a lot? Yeah, we play, you know, still to this day, you know, the bowl game and elevator and hearts and charades and Pictionary. Anyway, we're always excited. Elevator? What? I don't think I know Elevator.

Yeah. That's a card game where you start with two cards and then go up to eight cards and then go back down to two cards. And you have to say how many tricks you're going to take. It's a very clever game. Yeah, no, I've played versions of it by a different name. It's a great game.

So Josh gave a very famous best man speech at my wedding because it's just the two of us and our parents. And we played hearts pretty much every night, the entirety of our upbringing. Yeah. And he pointed out to my wife, like a fifth person is problematic. Ha ha ha.

So you have, you've got your family of five, correct? Like, so could you only do hearts when somebody was sort of out of the house? Well, first of all, hearts works fine with five people. It's bridge. Don't tell Seth's way. Please don't tell Seth's way. It's bridge that only works with four people.

So my younger sister always felt excluded that the four of us had gotten to play bridge, so she would be kind of left out when we were playing that game. So five person hearts, everybody gets 10 cards and there's like a two card kitty that goes to the last trick? Exactly. Interesting.

Or if you get enough people, you can play multi-deck hearts. You know, hearts, there's a lot of variation, like do you have jack of diamonds? When can you discard a heart? Or if you get enough people, you can play multi-deck hearts. You know, hearts, there's a lot of variation, like, do you have jack of diamonds? When can you discard a heart? What are the rules about shoot the moon? Are you allowed to say, I think this guy's shooting? People are very picky about their family hearts rules.

Yeah. Yeah, I believe it. We would never, we could never add the rule, do you think this, I think this person is shooting because you could say it about my mom every hand? Uh-oh. My mom's like a gunslinger who never checks if she even has bullets in the gun. Just kicks in the saloon door and starts clicking an empty chamber.

That's not a good strategy. No, I think there might be a real divergence in your and her math skills. Do you like the Jack of Diamonds rule? I think there might be a real divergence in your and her math skills. Did you, do you like the Jack of Diamonds rule? Not really, because I grew up without it. So then we'd go to other families and they're like, what is, there's like this negative 10 thing.

I agree. Yeah, we don't like it. It slows the game down. Yeah, and do you pass three cards? Yeah, we pass three. All right, good. And when can you discard a heart? Whenever you want? Second trick.

But not on the first trick? Yeah, not on the first trick. I should, because it does, the other reason why five, we also exclusively play team hearts. Oh yeah. So, and we exclusively play me and my mom against Josh and my dad. Really?

Okay, I have to think how that changed the game dynamic. It's a fascinating change, mostly in that when after each hand you're mad at someone you love. Okay, that's handy. That's handy. We did start playing a game. Have you heard of The Crew?

Do you know The Crew? No, I don't. It's a box card game, but you play cooperatively and there are missions that you have to do, but it's a trick taking game and it's really fun. But unless you strike me as a competitive guy and if you want to win, then you have to win together and maybe it's not as satisfying.

What were the athletic sports you would play as a family when you were young? When you were a kid, were there any? Well, my parents forced me to do everything. You know, baseball, football. The ones that I got into were more individual. You know, I enjoyed tennis. I enjoyed skiing.

I wouldn't say I was fantastic at any of them, but you, but I at least liked playing those. But they thought we should try everything. They made us really get good at swimming. There was no choice for us. Gotcha. Would you take ski trips? We would. In the Seattle area, we have really good snow pretty nearby, but we would also go to Sun Valley

for a week, a lot of years. And that's where I really learned to be a good skier. Would you stay in hotels when you were a kid, or would you rent a house, or would you go down with multiple families? Lots of hotels. Yeah. As a kid, did you love a hotel room?

You know, when you stay at a Howard Johnson's, you think, oh, wow, I get to pick what ice cream I'm going to eat. Because, you know, usually they'd have a Howard Johnson's restaurant in connection with that hotel. Yeah. So, no, traveling was always a super fun thing because you got a lot of time with your parents. That was something to look forward to.

And would you always drive or would you ever fly for trips? When we went to Europe, that was mostly flying trips. Although we did rent a car and drive around Europe. So you get to see a little bit more of that way. Was your dad a calm driver in a foreign country? Very. Oh, impressive. Yeah, no, my mom might say,

wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, but he always managed to stay calm. We were driving the other day and we drove past a frozen lake and there were some guys on what seemed like go-karts on the frozen lake. Wow. And we're driving down the road

and I point out the window and I say to my wife and my children, look at that, go-karts. And my wife says, oh, you should stop. And I said, we're in the middle of the road. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Like there's cars behind you. There's no stopping, just look. This is the moment, enjoy it.

You, so you wrote a memoir that came out this month, Source Code, My Beginnings. So did you find that your memories of your childhood were right at the sort of tips of your fingertips? Was it easy for you? You know, I have a good memory, but there were a number of things that when we went back and looked at it, it was like, oh, okay. There was a year I thought I got straight A's where clearly I didn't. So I had been promoting myths about myself. And how incredible my parents were. When I look back on it, that really struck me that in some ways I hadn't given them enough credit for putting up with

how challenging I was and yet, you know, always giving me opportunities. So I'm glad I look back. I don't like to look back because I always have what's new with AI, what's new with curing HIV, malnutrition, all this super interesting innovation I get to do. So I think if I look back, I'm not moving ahead as much as I'd like to. So this was unique for me, but I was very happy that I did it.

Another tip of the cap to your mother, it seems like she kept and had so much documentary evidence. I feel like if Seth and I went to write a book about our childhoods, we just have to go with what we could remember. But it seems like your mother had so many scrapbooks and notes and letters, and that you're really able to drill into their histories in a way that I think a lot of people

would find it very difficult to do. Yeah, we took all the family photos and put the date and place on and created this digital archive. And so yeah, they were good at keeping things. And now in the digital age, it's super easy to organize all that stuff. Yeah.

Did you use your, was your sister someone that was helpful? Did you ever have to, in the course of writing this book, check with her and say, hey, is this track with you? Well, yeah, it's pretty important that I run it by her since it wouldn't be too good to have her come out. Maybe she'll write a book.

What a myth my brother's trying to perpetrate on all of you. But no, she enjoyed looking back and corrected one or two things, but overall thought it rang true. I do have the book right here. Do you remember, did these teeth get knocked out or was that just a natural falling out of teeth? I remember falling off the monkey bars once and I lost a tooth,

but I think that's just the normal thing. I was happy and I guess I didn't mind not having a few teeth. I, that's the, both of my boys, the front two come out first and then these two giant paddles grow in and it is the most distressing thing to look at until the other teeth fill out. Are your three children, are they close with one another?

Yeah, they're three years apart. And yeah, it's girl, boy, girl, and they love hanging out together. That's very nice. I think that's pretty much all you can hope for when you are a parent is that they like one another. I also know just from this book that you went to Colonial Williamsburg. I always think of a place like that. The kids either going to love it or find it incredibly boring.

What was your take on it? Well, strange because, you know, they're kind of pretending that they're, you know, putting shoes on horses and that they're making candles and they're wearing, you know, kind of pretending that they're putting shoes on horses and that they're making candles and they're wearing kind of strange outfits. But no, I got a kick out of it. I remember the ham tasted really good and we got a bunch of souvenirs. So that was a fun summer where we drove around the East Coast, including going to the Congress and the Smithsonian had so much great stuff, the Aerospace Museum.

So that was one of our best trips. I can't believe however many, you know, 50 plus years later you can remember that the ham tasted good. That must have been exceptionally good ham. Yeah, I mean... I recommend it. And I'm sure that the people that work there now are like, we were shooing those horses, and we do make candles. I want your next book to be a cookbook called Colonial Ham.

Absolutely. Just a collection of your favorite meals over the course of your life. This has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much for your time, but you're not done yet. Josh has a speed round of questions for you. Excellent. All right, here we go.

You can only pick one of these. I think I know what you're gonna pick, but TBD, is your ideal vacation relaxing, adventurous, or educational? You know, I do multiple types, but I probably like educational more than your normal interview. Yeah, that was my guess. Everybody. You know, I do multiple types, but I probably like educational more than your normal interview.

Yeah, that was my guess. Everybody, the money in Vegas was uneducational for you, Bill. What is your favorite means of transportation? You know, I got this new red Fiat electric car that Bono gave me, because it has to do with giving money for HIV. So I'm getting a kick out of driving that around and people see me in a small car. It's like, what? What's he doing in a small car? Yeah.

I will say, I would not. As confident as I was that your first answer was educational is how blown away I am that it's a red Fiat. It's cute. It's been given by bottom. Really, really cute. You have now, yeah, you have zigged and zagged for both. If you could take a vacation with any family, alive or dead, real or fictional, other than your own family, what family would you like to take a vacation with?

Well the person that was the most reluctant to do vacations at all, who I think changed his mind a little bit is Warren Buffett. He was working all the time, but I got him to go to China on a train trip. It ended up being a great pleasure, even though he was like, wow, what am I doing goofing off? Yeah, but you had to get him out of Nebraska, isn't he?

I did, he's always in Omaha. In fact, he almost never leaves Omaha. At least it's easy to take someone on a vacation when they've only been in Omaha. I feel like almost every place you pick is gonna blow their mind. Yeah, although the steak isn't quite as good. Yeah, that's true. Sure, that's true.

If you had to be stranded on a desert island with one member of your family, who would it be? Well, you know, because I miss my dad, you know, if I get to pick him, that would be the case. But, yeah. That's a good pick. Picking favorites is a little dangerous. Yeah.

Well, why don't you stay with your dad? Cause that's safe. Yeah. Yeah. And you're technically from Seattle, or what neighborhood are you from? What did you say? What's your hometown? A good safe note, yeah. And you're technically from Seattle, or what neighborhood are you from, would you say? What's your hometown? I'm from Seattle.

And it's a neighborhood there near to the University of Washington called Laurelhurst, is where I grew up. Would you recommend Seattle or Laurelhurst as vacation destinations? During July, you can't beat Seattle. It's green, it's got incredible hikes. Lake Washington is just beautiful. You know, Microsoft, we'd always do our recruiting during the summer. Gotcha. Smart.

And then Seth has our final questions. Bill, have you been to the Grand Canyon? Oh, I love the Grand Canyon. All right. We did a family river rafting Oh, I love the Grand Canyon. All right. We did a family river rafting trip, actually on the Green River, but then in the canyon, you know,

you go down the inn and hang out. We just did the one day down and out thing in the canyon itself, but wow, that's a beautiful deal. But the river rafting up above on the Green River was one of our best family trips. That's fantastic. And do you camp when you went down into the canyon? Not when the Grand Canyon, but when we're up on the Green, it's five days where you're

just going down the river. Thank God you're not going up, but you go off and camp in tents on the side and they bring all this nice food. They make it easy. I mean, they did all the work. You just sit on these boats and drift down the river. Gotcha. Gotcha. All right, yeah.

Seth, we took Seth last year. He didn't really wanna go and still feels like he's not impressed with the Grand Canyon. I'm not impressed, but I'm just, you know. It's big. It's big, yeah, no, I get it. I always say- He did have that takeaway.

I always say they have an erosion problem. Thank you so much for your time, Bill. It's been a fantastic conversation. Yeah, great to talk to you. Thank you and congrats on the book. All right, thanks so much. All right. A young Bill Gates on vacation Went out to old Camp Cheerio For campfires and competitions It was the best place you could go.

Had dinner with other parents. At home, Joe's picked his own ice cream, got cultured at the World's Fair, and sampled all the world cuisine. But without a doubt, without a doubt, there was a food stand out. He loved the ham, that Williamsburg ham, he loves the ham You must try the ham, what's hella good ham If you like ham, you'd like that ham He loves the ham, remembers that ham He loved the ham, remembered that ham, Has dreams about that ham, cheers to that ham,

It was good ham.