Family Trips with the Meyers Brothers - JEFF TWEEDY Took a Ride in a Wisconsin Duck Boat

Episode Date: March 5, 2024

Jeff Tweedy joins Seth and Josh on the podcast this week! He chats about his early touring days before Wilco, playing music with his sons, vacationing to the Wisconsin Dells, and how he really feels about writing the theme song for this podcast! NissanGo find your next big adventure, and enjoy the ride along the way. Learn more at nissanusa.com. AirbnbSupport comes from Airbnb your home might be worth more than you think find out how much more at airbnb.com/host to learn about hosting.  BetterHelpSupport comes from BetterHelp   Learn to make time for what makes you happy, with BetterHelp.  Visit BetterHelp.com/trips today to get 10% off your first month.  SundaysGet 40% off your first order of Sundays. Go to sundaysfordogs.com/TRIPS or use code TRIPS at checkout.

This episode of Family Trips is brought to you by Nissan. Nissan SUVs have the capabilities to take your adventure to the next level. Learn more at NissanUSA.com. Hi, Bashi. Hi, Zuffi. Very exciting episode we have for everybody today. Yeah, I mean, in the Family Trips oeuvre, like in the Family Trips from the beginning, our guest today.

He's been with us. He's been with us. The third leg of the tripod that is Family Trips. And I was so excited to talk to Jeff Tweedy. And I always forget that there's an added burden on you when we have a musician on the show. Because I have someone to really aspire to in my songwriting? Yeah. Or not even aspire to.

That doesn't make it sound like a burden. I feel like you have someone to be judged by. Yeah. I should note, I never shared this with you, which is an awful thing for me to do as a brother. I ran into a couple of the Haim sisters. Oh, yeah? Esty and Alana at the Emmys.

And they said how great it was and how funny your song was. So we did get feedback. Yeah. And I just kept that. I kept that in my back pocket. Didn't share it. Yeah, man. Yeah. I feel like our guests don't hear the songs. I don't know. I don't get a lot of feedback on them. And I'm fine with that. I'm not saying they need to. I think that might be because they don't hear the songs. I don't know. I don't get a lot of feedback on them. And I'm fine with that. I'm not saying they need to. I think that might be because they don't listen to the actual podcast, right? Sure, sure, sure. They were there for it. At some point, we were talking about offline. We should send them an email, like all of our guests thanking them for being on.

And then just with a link to the song if they want to hear it. Because it doesn't take too much time. Maybe we are doing that. But it comes across super creepy to get an email saying, I remember our conversation. I wrote a song about it. I wrote a song about when we spoke.

So that could be the issue. Yeah. I mean, I'd like to be judged by Tweety on the song I wrote for Nick Offerman, which is a Wilco song. There you go. And I will say just, I mean, I know we're at the top of this episode, but I'm not doing a Wilco song for Wilco. That's like...

I knew you wouldn't. Yeah. When I heard it, I knew even before I listened that you would not dare do that. Also, it's just too on the nose. You're not going to zig when everybody thinks you're going to zig. Yeah. I should note, you did another wonderful thing. And this is just so our listeners can appreciate. I think at this point, you know the kind of brother Josh is. Josh is also an exceptional

friend. One of the reasons Josh does these songs at the end of every episode, it was a tradition that he would do this every time our college friends got together. Josh would write a song to memorialize the weekend. And one of the most exciting parts of the weekend was the playing of the song. Now, five of our friends just went to Mexico to see the band Fish. Yeah. I'm guessing this was a court appointed. They sort of, maybe they all committed DUIs and they got sentenced to four days. They love it.

They're so happy. Four of the five of them love it. And they bring one guy who doesn't like it. Yeah. But he loves it. He loves going. Yes. He loves going and being the malcontent at a fish show.

Right. But you also, while you're writing one song a week for this podcast, also took time out of your schedule to write a song about the five of them going to Cancun for fish shows. Yeah. And you're not a fan. You're not a fan of fish. No.

No disrespect. No disrespect. And again, I do want to stress, you and I, anything that we don't like, I wish I did like. Yeah. And I'm so happy for the community of fish fans. They seem to be incredibly supportive and they love each other.

Yeah. And keep it as far away from me as Mexico. Yeah. We should appreciate that they took it over. I do. The border. Yeah, I really do. And so this is the second year they've done this trip with like a group of them.

And I will send the song when I know they're at the show. And then I know they're going to get back to the hotel room after the show and give it a group listen. And to get those texts that come in. We're also, we're a group of friends. I feel like, I don't know if everybody's like this. I hope you are. But we say I love you to our friends a lot. And I highly recommend it it's it's great why wouldn't you yeah because do you not love your friends come on get over it and so the love that i get and those like late night texts where i'm sleeping on la time when they're listening to it on i think like east coast mexico time they're both i would guess on mexico time and uh some hardcore drugs.

They're on a hardcore claim. Yeah, they're not just on a different time zone. Yeah, they're on soft drugs. Yeah, they're soft drugs. Come on, these are old ass men at this point. Yeah, and then they group called me the other day with all of them. And it's just, it makes me so happy. And I just feel like, yeah,

it's a way that I can be part of that trip without being part of that trip. I have another exciting update. I don't know if you saw the photos on the Shared Family album, but we got Adelaide Myers on skis for the first time this weekend. She's two or three, two?

Two and a half. Yeah. She's two and a half. And she is so much better at it right away than her brothers. And her brothers, I should note, are doing great right now. They are very good skiers. I'm very excited for you to see them. But she loved it so much.

We went up this little sort of conveyor belt called a magic carpet, she and I. And I skied, you know, basically holding her the first three times. By the fourth time I could let her go and she would go straight down and not fall down. By the sixth time, she said, you know, come. She thought she could just already do it by herself. Could she? No, I couldn't let her go down that thing on her own, but I didn't have to hold her much. And she was so happy. Every time we finished, she would say, again, again, one more time. Oh, my God.

Outstanding. It was just the best. Yeah. And then she watched her cousin Agnes fall and sort of slide down with her head on the snow. And then the last run was the worst one because she wanted to ski on her helmet. She thought that was another way you could do it. Well. Yeah.

And so the last time was the only time where she i sort of carried her down rubber-legged yeah i want to tease something and who knows who knows if there's even gonna be anything to this okay we're recording this the morning of my 10th anniversary show oh yeah yeah anniversary thank you So I think based on when you're hearing this, this is maybe about eight days before you're listening to this. And one of the guests tonight is, both of the guests, I should say, were the guests on my first show in 2014. And those guests were my old friend Amy Poehler and the then Vice President Joe Biden.

Oh, yeah. What's he doing now? Well, he's going to follow Amy Poehler again on the show tonight. What a champ. But the boys are going to come in and they're going to meet him. Uh-huh. And so I'm very excited to report back how Ash and Axel and Addy, I should note, we're going to bring Addy in as well. But, you know, she's going to be, she doesn't quite appreciate the station, the office of the presidency.

She doesn't quite appreciate it yet. Doesn't she insist on hail to the chief anytime she enters a room? When she enters a room, yeah. So that'll be awkward. But the boys are very excited to meet him. And I've made a mistake though, because I told the boys,

not appreciating that this day would come, many times about how Major, President Biden's dog Major, bit the Secret Service agents a bunch. Yeah. And so that's all Axel wants to ask about and i'm a little worried i kept sort of telling him that's maybe not what he's going to want to talk about i bet that's going to be a almost a refreshing thing for president biden to speak about yeah that could be i mean you don't want axel asking

him about gaza that's true yeah that true. Someone else will ask him about that. Yeah, no, but hopefully I'll get around to it. But anyway, that is happening, and I'm very excited for them because they know who he is, and I think it's pretty cool. Yeah. No, absolutely. I have a little update. There's a lot of talk about skiing on this podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I feel like people might be like, these jerks, like these uppity jerks. But we grew up in New Hampshire. We're just sort of like ski people. Also, I want to stress the Connecticut Mountain my boys are learning on, not what you're picturing. Right. But I was skiing a month ago.

I don't know if I talked on this podcast about how I skied in into my ski pole yes and you are a good skier and that seems to be something a bad skier would do yeah so i put the ski pole in the snow and then my skis slipped and i took the entire downhill force of my uh trajectory into my ribs and uh i just went and saw the doctor the other day because they still hurt. And I broke two ribs. You broke two ribs?

Yeah. What is wrong with you? Yeah. Eight and nine. I dinged them up. So now, real quick, and we won't go into how, but talk through the broken bones you've had in your life. Oh, my God.

Three tibias with a fibula. That's three different? Well, one of them twice. Right. Okay. Yeah. Two fibulas along with three tibias. I don't know. I broke a toe, these ribs. Back? Oh yeah. My back, L1 and L2 in my back. My jaw, not really broken, but it like sort of clicks out. What else? That might be it. But I've torn a rotator cuff. I feel like I'm having surgery on the regular. Yeah. I maybe broke my finger in college playing touch football.

Oh, you definitely did. Yeah. And it looks a little janky still, but that's it. Yeah. One finger, right hand ring finger has got a janky knuckle. Yeah. And that's it. Yeah.

So again, you might be listening and you might, I know you judge and you're all, I want to be the active one. I want to be the poshy. Just guess what? Guess what, suckers? It's just trip after trip to the doctor. Yeah, but I went to the doctor a month later.

I still skied that day and the two days after. Yeah. Well, mom and the two days after. Yeah. Well, mom and dad are very excited. You know why they're very excited? What's that? How long ago did they buy you a couch? Oh, they offered to buy us a couch, I want to say, a year and change ago. And you just got the couch.

It's arriving today. Oh, well, that'll be our other update. They're very happy that the couch arrived. arriving today oh well that'll be our other update they're very happy that the couch arrived yeah we're excited yeah mckenzie's off today so we can move the old couch out and the new one's gonna come between 11 30 and 2 30 and boy i hope it's good and i hope debbie the dog has a good uh perch on it because she's had her spot for like 10 years on this couch well this is great we're gonna have a lot of fun things to update everybody on because also posh and i will be seeing each other in person very soon yeah we will have done a panel we're gonna do a podcast panel in brooklyn

share tales about that how hip yeah it's gonna be hip. And I'm mostly just really excited for you to all hear this wonderful conversation with Jeff Tweedy, who has one of my favorite voices singing or speaking of anyone in the world. Agreed. So sit back, relax, and enjoy Family Trips with Jeff Tweedy. But first, enjoy the Family Trips theme song, also with Jeff Tweedy. Yes. Hey. Hello. How are you, Jeff? Good. Here we go Are you the same Jeff Tweedy who sings the family trip song? It's burdensome. I think that's the word. Yeah.

Yeah, that's the word. It could well be. If it's as often as we think it is, then it must be. Yeah. Yeah. Really. Yeah. It's more like me stopping people and reminding them than I'm like, oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

People forget there's another way that can go. Yeah, yeah. You're just at the sort of checkout. You're like, if my voice sounds familiar, I can probably put one and one together for you. That's right. So, Jeff, you grew up in Belleville, Illinois. Yes. Center of the state?

It's the bottom third. It's right across the river from St. Louis. Gotcha. Right across the Mississippi River from St. Louis. You got a bunch of siblings. Three. It's a big family. Three siblings.

Are you taking family trips and where are you going? Basically, I'm an only child by birth order because my youngest brother was 10 years older than me. And then the other two siblings are older than that. So by the time I came around, they'd all really moved out or gone away to school and never moved back in the house. So yeah, I spent a lot of time alone and as the baby of the family as well. Yeah. Would you go places with your parents? You know, I might be the worst guest you've ever had because if that's the gist of this, which I'm gathering it is. We'll pivot. We'll pivot.

We'll pivot. Yeah, don't worry. We like to start with this and then pivot. No, we went on a few family trips. Not very, very often. My dad was married to the railroad and worked. He never took days off, hardly. We went to the Lake of the Ozarks, which is kind of a big man-made lake in southern Missouri where you'd rent a cabin.

And we have a couple of memories of that. All I really remember is my grandmother's standard poodle shitting in the car. In the car is probably the worst place to do it. Yeah. That doesn't reflect well on that beautiful man-made lake that your best memory happened in the car. And was dog shit related. Yeah. No, I remember the cabins.

They were very nice, quaint. It was like going to summer camp. It wasn't a highbrow vacation spot. Yeah. But were there a bunch of cabins close together? Were there a lot of cabins close together were there a lot of kids running around and there was a part of the lake that uh some of our better off relatives would stay at like these resorts and stuff like that and the cabins were more like you know maybe you'd

like fishing maybe you'd like to you know just hang out and fish. I don't know. There was some class separation. Sure. When you drove in the car with your parents, did you listen to music with them? Were they the sort of parents who put on music? If it was just my mom and myself in the car, we would listen to music. I don't think we did that with my dad in the car. Oddly enough, I don't think we did that with my dad in the car oddly enough i don't have a whole lot of memories of riding in the car with my dad he was you know he was at the railroad or he was you know home uh like i went to you know occasionally i guess i would get in

the car with my dad but it's like honestly it was such a rare occurrence for us to go anywhere together, all of us. It does feel like you grew up in the 20s. It does. Just having a dad that's married to the railroad does feel like. Yeah. Well, I mean, when I was growing up, the town I grew up in felt like it was about 20 years behind what you would see on TV. I mean, when I describe my youth to some people sometimes, it does feel like I'm describing growing up in the 50s or something. I would go to the soda fountain after school where my aunt worked and like at the pharmacy it was you know

you'd go to the pharmacy sit at the soda fountain and uh drink a you know a cherry sprite so i again i only know this of course from old movies this is a counter at a pharmacy where you basically would sit on one of those spinny stools yeah and just order a bespoke soda to your own design. Yeah. They had a grill, too. They would make grilled cheese, just a few items. But they had tapioca. That's how old.

They don't even have tapioca anymore. It was so old, the kids were eating tapioca. And they liked it. Yeah, I loved it. I love tapioca anymore i don't know it was so i like it was so old the kids were eating tapioca and they liked it yeah i loved it i love tapioca yeah i'm picturing sort of a one sort of maybe uh in decline main street with brick building facades sure yeah like a lot of bars and a lot of you know when i was growing up a lot of closed up storefronts. Last time I was there, it was revitalized a little bit, which was encouraging, you know. But I haven't been back in a long time. It seemed like somebody, like a lot of smaller towns, you know, I think there's been some effort to kind of take over these buildings with like art galleries and things, you know, like maybe just to to make it, I don't know, a little nicer place to live.

Where is your mom now? She is departed, dearly departed. Both my folks are gone, so I don't have a whole lot of reason to go back to Belleville very often. So your aunt worked at the Soda Fountain Pharmacy and you went down to the Ozarks with your grandmother. Did you have a lot of family around, extended family?

For the Ozark trip, yeah, it would be some of my dad's siblings and their families and different cabins. And yeah, yeah. My other big memory from that is there was a fishing pier. It was basically a covered fishing area. You'd walk out of a pier and then there would be almost like a house out over the water where you could sit around a hole that was cut in the floor and fish in comfort if it was raining or sunny or whatever. And my memory of that is that you could do that at night and they were out there drinking and fishing at night. And I walked out there and I knocked a railroad flashlight off of the counter into the water and it lit up everything. So like the fish all went away and everybody was mad at me. Because it didn't burn out or anything

it was a really good flashlight railroad flashlights and it lasts and it lasted like the whole rest of the trip i felt like again while you keep talking about the railroad when i started listening to like music from the 70s a lot of Bob Dylan or even there were Elton John albums it seemed like a lot of 70s artists were singing about like the 1880s and so I had a weird sense of when the old west was right in my head just based on the band for example when I listened to those albums I all thought it was way more recent history. Right. It's so funny that the 70s were singing about 100 years ago.

Yeah, right. Yeah. Though the thing that, well, I mean, it's not really directly related to that comment. But the thing that freaks me out all the time is that when I started playing music, I was closer to the big band era than I am to the beginning of my career now. Well, that's longevity for you. That freaks me out. Yeah. I remember the observation somebody made about that.

There was a benefit for Hurricane Sandy, and I was backstage. And so I'm going to guess that's 2010-ish. I'm sorry, I don't remember exactly when. But Chris Rock was backstage. And so I'm going to guess that's 2010-ish. I'm sorry, I don't remember exactly when, but Chris Rock was backstage. And I remember The Who was on stage and they were followed by The Strokes. Yeah. And Chris Rock said, based on that gap,

that would have been like, when The Who was The Strokes age, it would have been like them following Scott Joplin. Right, exactly. But that's the crazy thing is that people musicians in a good way for someone like yourself musicians just stopped going away yeah yeah they got to keep working and touring and doing stuff yeah i mean it's got to be the internet right i mean the internet just made everything stop going away yeah that's true yeah it's like a flat circle of time and not like a linear thing anymore. I mean, these things used to go away. You know, like the top 40 would go away.

And they're like, why play those records again? Until they're classic. Yeah, yeah. How would you even be able to look up, like, what was the fifth most popular song in 1977? But with the internet, I wouldn't have known how. No, I mean, go to the library, I'm guessing. Yeah, and cross your fingers that they have the book.

I just read your last book, which is really wonderful, and it's 40 different songs. 50. 50, excuse me. I only cared for the first 40. Yeah, that's right. A lot of people say that. But it's 50 songs and different emotional reactions to each of them,

and they're all genre-spanning. But you mentioned there was a song that's very hard to find from a band. Will you help me out here, Jeff? Well, there's a couple. There's Sold American, which has a song called Before Tonight. And I don't think it's in print at the moment. And it's a little bit hard to find. There's also a song by Diane Izzo that is impossible to find.

I don't think it's actually out there. There's a version of me playing it out there, or a few versions live and stuff. But yeah, I mean, I tried to avoid that. I probably would have been really frustrating to make a whole book of songs that I love that you can't hear. But I appreciated it because I did like, even though I couldn't hear it, there was weirdly something i liked about knowing there's still things out there that aren't just at your fingertips yeah right and there's a little bit of work behind it the way you had to find stuff i mean i remember somebody giving me you know in

early the early 2000s i mean now it's all available but they were sort of first first takes of the songs on yankee Hotel Foxtrot. And I couldn't believe that I had this CD at the time of these alternative versions. And it was a really cool thing that, again, it's nice that it's been democratized and everybody has access to everything. But I don't know, there was something about owning music that not everybody had the ability to own. Yeah, I think that including a few things like that in the book, maybe it wasn't intentionally to do this, but I do think that that's how I experienced music or finding music when I was a kid.

So it's nice that it has a little bit of that. I would read about things before I could hear them, like everybody. And for myself, it was really exciting. If it was a well-written description or a record review or something about a band and their concert that you have no way of knowing, it was really good for your imagination. I feel like I knew what Big Star sounded like before I ever heard them because of all the different things i'd read about that band and also all the times they'd been referenced to other bands that i had heard you know like

what were where things were coming from if you say they were referenced in an article about you know rem or the replacements or something like that. But there was something really nice about investing in something, like you putting value, which is your time and effort, into the music itself. And it does feel a little frivolous now. You can just move on really quick. You don't have any skin in the game. You didn't spend your allowance on a record generally these days.

I remember just going through CDs, and if there was a song I'd heard that I really wanted, but then I would look at the back of, say, a Rolling Stone album, and the other nine I'd never heard of before. It was really weighing if it was worth it to just go in to get whatever. Bitch. I remember Bitch was a song I really wanted. Right. And I didn't know the other songs on the album yet.

Yeah. No, you'd get burned. You could get really burned. Yeah. It's interesting. I grew up as a kid who critics for film, for television, for music were a really important map system for me. I put a lot of faith in them. And it's interesting. I don't know how you feel, because obviously, I've been

on the other side of criticism as well. Because you obviously cared about it a great deal. Like, is it strange to then be on the other side of it and be like, Oh, is this what they were doing the whole time? I mean, obviously, you know, and I only say, you know, because mostly, obviously, it's been positive. But of course, the negative ones are the ones if you're anything like me are the ones you remember for sure yeah yeah uh yeah i've tried to figure out why i think it's kind of suffered in the digital era and i think it's partially because of what we're talking about everybody can listen to it for themselves so it's no longer really a required reporting. It's not like a journalistic thing where, you know, hey, I got to tell you about this thing that happened

or I got to tell you about this record so you know about it. It's more like, oh, I have to write about this record because I'm getting, you know, it's my job and I have to find an angle record because I'm getting, you know, it's my job and I have to find an angle to situated it into the culture and cross-reference like things that don't really require imaginative writing about the music. It's more like kind of cultural criticism, you know, and that's not as much fun to me, you know, it It's not really in the spirit of somebody making a piece of music and sharing it with the world. It's like, who gives a shit where you stand next to some other band?

Or if you're part of the cultural conversation, that's really ridiculous. That's like art form. That's what happened to like, you know. Right. It all becomes like a lifestyle kind of magazine writing too. You know, it's like it's about curating maybe a certain lifestyle as opposed to just telling somebody about a badass record that you love or a shitty record that you need to, you know, take down a peg. love or a shitty record that you need to take down a peg. Did you start with your two boys? And I know, obviously, you effectively did sell them on the idea of music as being a cool thing. And your wife cared a great deal about music. Did you

drive around with them on road trips and try to put your music into their ears early on? Not Wilco, but just the music you liked. Yeah. I mean, it's for better or worse. I think it's been one of the ways I've communicated with my friends and my loved ones my whole life is sharing the music that I love is sort of intimate to me. And so my kids and I listen to a lot of music on the way to school in the morning, on the way home from school in the afternoon. In Chicago, their commute to school was pretty substantial.

So we listened to a whole record on the way to school, and we did a lot. And I wasn't trying to socially engineer kids that liked Captain Beefheart. to socially engineer kids that liked Captain Beefheart. But I also didn't think there was any reason to not see what they liked, you know, without, you know, I don't know, kids are like, it's just like a clean slate, you know? So Captain Beefheart happened to be something they really loved because it's whimsical. There's some, like, it's captivating. But yeah, we'd listen to all kinds of different music. Did they ever try to push any music on you that offended your sensibilities or that you were like, oh, I really don't want to listen? You don't have to say who it is, but was there ever

not a meeting of the minds? I imagine you would be more open minded than most, that you wouldn't be just a straight up dad who's like, this is garbage. Yeah, a long time ago, I think that even before I had kids, I kind of came to the conclusion that a lot of things that I once hated, and this is in my book too, I figured out that I didn't really hate them. And I was really happy that I kept giving it a chance because I think it enhances your life to, like, figure out how to love more instead of reducing things to, this is what I like. You know, I don't know. I just like the idea that the goal should be to be able to embrace more, at least understand more why other people like it. should be to be able to embrace more at least understand more why other people like it and so no there wasn't a whole lot of you know like oh my god can't play that justin bieber and

in in this car not in my car um my younger son like more recently has um maybe pushed the boundaries of stuff that I'm able to enjoy or get. And it's mostly just techno music, because I'm just geared towards thinking, this is my criteria. It's like, could this be someone's favorite song? Right. And I'm always like, there's no way this is somebody's favorite song. And I'm like, always like, there's no way this is somebody's favorite song. And, and of course, you know, I mean, also, I know it's not for that. It's like, it's functional music. It's for dancing, you know, like, and I'm like, it's obvious it's not for me. It was like,

I got bad hips, you know, I like. They actually, in the beginning, the first track is them just explaining this is not for people with bad hips. That's right. I mean, I would have been it would be nice if they did that up front, you know, before it's too late. Yeah. Hey, we're going to take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors. This episode of Family Trips is brought to you by Nissan. Ever wonder what's around that next corner?

Or what happens if you push further? Seth, I know that's something you ask me every day. This is why we're excited to partner with Nissan. So much of this podcast is about families getting together in a car and taking adventures. The car becomes a home away from home. It becomes a wonderful, warm place. We love celebrating family adventures on this podcast called Family Trips. So take a Nissan Rogue, Nissan Pathfinder, or Nissan Armada and go find your next big adventure.

And do it in comfort. And do it in style. I mean, with the new 2024 Nissan Rogue, the class-exclusive Google built-in is your always-updating assistant to call on for almost anything. There's no need to connect your phone as Google Assistant, Google Maps, and Google Play Store are built right into the 12.3-inch HD touchscreen infotainment system of the 2024 Nissan Rogue. If mom and dad had this, I could call them and I would say, how far away are you from getting to our house? And they would still say, I don't know, maybe an hour. That's if they answered the phone. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So thanks again to Nissan for sponsoring this episode of Family Trips. Now go find your next big adventure and enjoy the ride along the way. Learn more at NissanUSA.com. NissanUSA.com Family Trips is supported by Airbnb.

Hey, Pashi. Yeah, Sufi. Sometimes friends of mine will ask to stay with me. And, of course, I'm happy to have them. But what I want to say to them is, hey, you have a beautiful home. Why not, when you're on vacation, do you not explore hosting?

Your house is Airbnb. Make money while you're gone and then use that money to get a place to stay that is not my house. Yeah, you might even come out on top. Yeah, you might make money. You might go on vacation and make money. We've got a trip. I don't know if we're going to take it or not, but we were just invited to go to this trip in Puerto Rico for a friend of Mackenzie's 40th birthday. And I was like, well, I don't know, like, where are they staying? She said, they've got an Airbnb and there's a room for us. And it's like, oh, well, that kind of makes it a no brainer. And then on top of it to think like, oh, well, we could Airbnb our place out when we're

away. And that's a total cleanup. If you're somebody who's put a lot of time and care into attention in your home, why not share it with people who are looking for a place to stay and you will make some money when they do. And you might be thinking my space couldn't be an Airbnb, but that's not true. If you're concerned about the time commitment, you can even just Airbnb your place

just a few weeks a year when you're traveling. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much more at airbnb.com slash host. Your boys are four years apart? Yeah. Did their tastes line up? Because I will just say that being in a car with my boys who are two years apart, nothing's worse than if one of them wants a song and the other one doesn't.

Because the other one does not politely wait until it's time for their track selection. They do. They have different divergent like kind of favorites or like you know it's definitely stuff i think oh this is really something spencer would dig or i hear stuff and i go oh this is really in in sammy's ballpark whatever and but it's it really overlaps and i guess that just the atmosphere or the environment they grew up in music has been treated as such a tolerant social act of like, almost like, you know, it's almost like if you play a record,

you're listening to your brother tell you what he wants to tell you. And that's rude to shut that off or, you know, it's like, it's just a really, I think it's really related to communication in the way our family works. Do you think it's nice related to communication in the way our family works do you think it's nice that when i'm finally allowed to play my music sometimes my wife and kids will just scream skip i i think they're awful thank you yeah yeah yeah that's awful but i have to with the disclaimer that i don't know what you're playing. It's Skrillex. Do you know Skrillex?

Yeah. Yeah. And then they're really rude. Do your kids ever listen to your music with you in the room or at all? Oh, yeah. I mean, this sounds like, you know, I think from the outside, it might sound like child abuse or torture. But like, I don't know. I've listened to one of the things that they understand about my job is I have to listen to my own music a lot while I'm making it and while I'm in the process of writing even.

And so I've never really tried to keep that separate. So we've driven around listening to rough mixes of Wilco records or different things I'm working on. And I really like listening with their ears, you know, like without, I don't know. On one hand, they're loving and they love me and there's a certain amount of forgiveness that's always going to happen. But they're also brutally honest, maybe more so than almost anybody can be. They're like, Dad, you can't sing that. You can't, you can't. Don't talk about screens. No one talks about screens.

You sound old, you know? Oh, that's great. So if you have a line about screens, they just want to save you from seeming old. That's, that's never happened. I would never sing about screens, but yeah. old that's that's never happened i would never sing about screens but yeah yeah have they made like actual changes in music of yours have you yeah been yeah thrown away verses or lines or yeah yeah yeah i mean you know there have been times where out of politeness they maybe withheld something uh and then like then they finally tell me when

the record's out and i'm like oh why didn't you tell me you're like don't ever do that again you know like i would have loved to have had a chance to address that and and you know because i i think that they're right about stuff do they give notes in a different way, or do they have the same style, Sam and Spencer? Sammy tends to be, the younger ones, tends to be more blunt. You know, like, I don't, you know, this isn't my favorite. I wouldn't put this on the top tier of what you're thinking about for the for the next record or you know they're both Montessori kids you know so that philosophy of education has kind of ingrained in them this uh style of critiquing which I think it's really good but it's it's it's funny

because it's always like I have something positive to say does your heart drop when they open with that yeah like i you know first of all i do i do think it's a good song however however yeah there's like you know their shoes gonna fall at some point so what kind of trips did you guys go on as a family as you were raising two kids in chicago well i mean the uh sort of uh there's been a couple of different types we've gone to the wisconsin dells like a lot of people live in chicago and the water parks and things like that and those are generally the lower impact traveling kind of vacations that you maybe schedule a couple of weeks in advance. And we've also been lucky enough to be able to go places like Mexico in the winter sometimes.

We've gone to different places, mostly a place called Acomal in Mexico that we've really enjoyed, which is near Tulum. And my family's also traveled with me quite a bit. So we've gone to Spain. I did a solo tour in Spain and we all kind of booked it around it being a family trip. And once I started playing my solo material with Spencer and Sammy and the band, you know, we've done, you know, it's touring. So it's still not like the normal kind of like family trip. It's relaxing.

It's a vacation. But there's a lot of great fun to be had doing that. And if you have a show at night, are you the kind of person who could relax and go about the city in the afternoon? Or is your headspace this kind of thing where you can't see the sights? It depends on where it falls in a tour. I think early on in a tour, I maybe have more energy to go to a museum or something on a show day. As a tour wears on, definitely it's more of like energy conservation mode. But in general, the thing that I do have, I think is really good for my mental health on the road is walking. So

I don't really want the stimulation of going to a museum or anything like that, but walking in the woods or finding a place to go hiking keeps me away from the venue, keeps me away from staring at the walls or at my phone. And I tend to try and do that as much as possible. When you're on stage with the boys performing, how much do you feel like a dad as opposed to a fellow musician? 30%. a dad as opposed to a fellow musician? 30%? I don't know. There are times where I look over and I honestly kind of can't believe my good fortune. It's just such a sweet thing to look over and think that not only do my kids feel like hanging out with me, they're participating in this thing that has defined my whole life, you know, like, uh,

something I, I just love to do. And, and they sound so good singing together and singing with me. It's all, you know, there's a, that's, i think it's more of like a prideful dad moment you know uh then then oh my god are you like you need to tuck your shirt in have you ever had to scold them or reign them in on stage have you ever gone into like dad mode mid-concert as subtly as it might have to be or there's no room for that or to just not come up no i think that uh dad mode maybe more in rehearsals or um you know in prep and stuff like i'm like i'm really sensitive i think at this point in my life where in a way that i maybe wasn't when i was younger at the the social, the emotional economics of being on stage,

you know, are fraught. And it's really easy to hurt somebody on stage because everybody's feeling a little insecure and a little self-conscious, even at the best moment, even at the moments where it's going as well as it could possibly go. In fact, if it's going really, really well and you are into it, you think it's going really, really well, you're really vulnerable to being blindsided by someone else's opinion of what's happening or something like that. So those things, not just from being in a band with my kids, but from being in bands my whole life, you learn how to kind of move past that thought and to the next moment and and hopefully save it if it needs to be said for later

you know it must be nice too to remember the age you were at and the insecurities i'm sure you were dealing with and knowing that even though they're going through whatever a performer has to go through on stage you must be so happy to be there for it oh yeah yeah no it's like my philosophy is that you should get to a point playing music where failure isn't really possible that the point of it is so much bigger than the right note or a missed lyric or the feeling of it. And the connection with the audience allows for a certain amount of just camaraderie or, you know, it's a communal thing. It's just like, well, that's human and we're going to make mistakes.

And, but even to me, I just think all of the best music I've ever seen erases the possibility of failure. When you watch old clips of people on great bands that you love, it doesn't matter who it is. They're great because they're doing what they do with this sense that there's no way they can fuck it up. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's just so intrinsically, like, in the spirit of connection beyond perfection, you know?

That's rock and roll to me. Like, I don't think that's classical music. There's obviously a high wire act with, like, really technical forms of music that you'd, and to me, like folk music, country music, rock music, should never, ever attempt to be in that realm. You know, it's like, that's to me, not what it's for. I mean, so I think that there's an enormous amount of latitude that you give yourself to not be good.

I think that, I mean, I can't tell you how many shows i've seen live shows where you know somebody's got the wrong guitar something's in the wrong key and if it's a band you love and like if the lead singer is like hold on stop stop stop yeah the audience never minds that no one's ever like oh shit yeah this concert stunk. Like people applaud, people applaud because it's like, all right, we want to get this, you know, we'll, let's take it back to one. Or if a lyric is missed, no one's, I don't find that anyone's ever upset

because it is that communal sort of thing. Yeah, there are times where, you know, it's like so egregious that it's like, oh, it's embarrassing. Like if Roger Daltrey forgot to come in with the scream at the end of won't get fooled again you go oh man that's what i paid for you know yeah you might start thinking he's checked out yeah yeah how could you do that but for the most part yeah i think uh the inverse is also true that if you are up there

looking like you're trying not to fail a test, that undermines the ability for the audience to relax and feel free of concern. If you're watching somebody that looks concerned, they're going to miss a note. We're coming up on 10 years of late night, and so they've been showing me clips of early shows. And I i can see in my face and i feel like the audience could too that i was white knuckling it from joke to joke i thought every joke was of utmost importance as opposed to

the idea of somebody performing jokes that is the core fun part and so now in the same way that That is the core fun part. And so now, in the same way that Josh was saying people have a wrong guitar, nothing's more fun than having a joke eat shit that I thought was going to work and then just talk to the audience about how there was a writer who said this wasn't going to work. And I'm going to hear. You blame the writer. Yeah, I blame the writer.

Yeah, right. But it's really fun fun i don't have that luxury seth uh because i am the writer all right um no yeah one door one door closes and another one opens you know like that's like that's you know if you just have to be aware of the choices that are if you're like white knuckling it, you aren't aware of the opportunities that. Yes, it's so true. It did. I mean, when do you feel like you found that peace of mind as a performer to live in it as opposed to live and die with it? I think I was so delusional when I started that I started with it. Oh, that's great. I know comedians like that. I'm so jealous of it.

I think I lost it for a while when there was a certain amount of importance being placed on the band that I didn't anticipate. You know, like when you become a critical darling at some point with some of our records at different times and the things being written about your band are really flattering, but also way more cerebral and academic than what you think you're doing uh that can eat into you a certain amount of your you know yeah i think it did for a while maybe where i was like just maybe a little bit more like oh wow we're like we now we need to be as good as the Beatles, I guess.

On the other hand, I think it's been good also to want to get better, to want to try harder. And some of that comes from an internal desire to get better and live up to your favorite music and favorite records. And maybe it's not unfair to say some of it comes from the, you know, importance that other people are placing on what you're doing. It gives you a certain sense of responsibility. Hey, we're going to take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors. Hey, Bashi. Hey, Sufi. What would you do if you had

an extra hour in the day? Ooh, I'd have to think about that. Yeah, I think I might read a book. I might go for a run. But a lot of us spend our lives wishing we had more time. The question is time for what? If time was unlimited, how would you use it? The best way to squeeze that special thing into your schedule is to know what's important to you and to make it a priority.

And that is where therapy like BetterHelp can be of assistance. Yeah, I'm a big fan of therapy. And yeah, that's a good point. Because if you don't make time for the things that make you happy, then you got a worse chance of being happy. So therapy is a great place to get those priorities in line and figure out if you do have some extra time, what you're going to do to make your life a little bit better. And I think one of the hurdles for people when they're deciding whether or not to do therapy is that it might be inconvenient to fit into their schedule.

And they might not even have time for that. But one of the great things about BetterHelp, it's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Learn to make time for what makes you happy with BetterHelp.

Visit betterhelp.com slash trips today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash trips. Family Trips is supported by Sundays. Poshy, you love your dogs. I sure do. You got a new couch and it's too high for Debbie the dog. Yeah, we got gotta get her a step that's the kind of dog owner posh is he's gonna get a step for his dog and a man that gets a step

for his dog is also gonna take the dog food very seriously much like me and sundays is a fresh dog food made from a short list of human grade ingredients sundays contains 90 meat 10 super foods and zero percent synthetic nutrients or artificial ingredients. We've switched over to Sundae's, and I got to say, the dogs are happy. They are energetic. Well, Debbie's not really energetic, but it wasn't really in the cards for Debbie. But she loves it. Yeah.

Cocaine couldn't get Debbie onto that couch without a step. But yeah, they really like it. And it's so easy to feed. We were doing that fresh food for a while. And we're about to fully reclaim a drawer in our refrigerator that was just full of dog food. And now we've got this great freeze-dried food, which is made from fresh ingredients. So the quality is there, but it doesn't have to live in our fridge. It's not going to go bad if the bag's too big and it takes us too long to get through,

which was always a concern with some of this stuff. Yeah, it's great. We dig it. Every order ships right to your door, so you'll never worry about running out of dog food again. Get 40% off your first order of Sundays. Go to SundaysForDogs.com slash trips or use code trips at checkout. Josh and I, I remember we went and saw Book of Mormon in New York and we saw you after the show with one of your boys. And this would have been, you know, 07, 08 around then. Was that a thing? I don't know if you were in New York for another

reason, but did you, obviously there's a lot of cultural stuff in Chicago, but did you travel with the kids and take them to see stuff in other places like that? I remember that. I felt like I really blindsided you and I made you feel weird. I apologize. Oh, God. For me, it was an A-plus moment. I think that, yes, blindsided.

And then I also felt my reaction to it was weird because I was real happy about it all. I was on a Book of Mormon high and then I ran you, and I felt like a real great New York day. And he's been Mormon ever since. That's great. That's great. Well, that's really good. I can check that off of my list of things to be concerned about. But we saw, I think that we've done it a few times.

I think we saw Pee Wee's, the Pee Wee play. I was in that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I did not know that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I did not know that. That's okay. That's okay. I was the firefighter in several puppet voices.

Oh, nice. That was a blast. And we saw Young Frankenstein, the brief moment that that wasn't there for long. That was not there for long. We saw Fela. We've seen you know hamilton a couple we've gone a few times just to do that just to go because i mean it's it's chicago does have it but it's it's usually you kind of wait for some of the stuff that's kind of exciting when it

usually starts starts there yeah again chicago not just a great music city also a great comedy city a lot of the plays we just mentioned are comedies. Do you love watching comedy with your boys? Because I don't think my kids are ever going to be good at music, but I am really enjoying watching them develop senses of humor. Yeah, yeah. Kids can be so, so funny, man. Yeah, it's good to know.

It's good to know when they get that. But yeah, we watch a lot of stuff together. Sammy is resistant to comedy. He seems to want something cerebral, something sort of intense a lot of times. And Spencer and I are generally just wanting to blow off some steam with workaholics or something. Something ridiculous. But it's always good when we kind of talk Sammy into it. It's just like, I don't know.

I think he's an intense kid, so he's just wanting to, it takes a while to get him to put his guard down for it. That's great. I imagine a band is very much like a family. You've spent so much time with Wilco over the years. The first times you guys were sort of touring or going on the road, what was that like? Had you toured before with other bands with Wilco?

Yeah, with Wilco. The early days of Wilco, were you in a van driving around? The early days of Wilco were kind of nice because I was in a band with Uncle Tupelo before Wilco. And that was almost entirely in vans for the entire time we were together. We did one tour in a bus at the very end of our career, which was really on i was uncomfortable it was basically the band had already broken up and we kind of had a whole bunch of shows to do to kind of even the balance of our debts to our manager and different people so it was like oh

we're not going to do these shows so like what if we get a bus you know it's like okay well maybe we can do them if i guess we have a bus and it wasn't didn't make anything better is there anything romantic about looking back at early van days with a band or is it all just pretty awful i i do think that there's something really nice about getting in a van with your friends. And there's a lot of unique things that happen. I think if you travel, and I used to see this with other bands too, with my wife's rock club, Lounge Hacks in Chicago. Any band that would come through, almost all of them were traveling in vans.

And bands that have been on the road for a long time tend to stay in the formation that they sit in in the van like there's like almost like a weird kind of attachment they get a little little a little uncomfortable if they're drawn out of the the immediate vicinity of their bandmates i used to notice that all the time like we go in restaurants we kind of huddle together and you know but i always think that you know that it's such a different world. I always think that a great game show would be to give a young band only 80s technology and tell them to book a tour across the United States with no cell phones, no GPS.

I mean, I don't think you could do it because that that equipment is so available but I'd love to I feel like it's a miracle that we made it you know yeah did you have a job on those tours were you navigator were you DJ were you driver what was um I drove a lot yeah there was there was generally a couple of guys that would be more up for the driving and have the kind of, I don't know, stamina for long hauls. But yeah, I'm surprised we're not still driving around Saskatoon looking for an exit. And who was the DJ on those,

and what were you guys listening to in early band days? The rule generally for most bands in that time period was the driver is the, you know, you get to pick the tunes if you're going to drive. Gotcha. Yeah. It was, you know, bands have a lot of overlap generally. Sure, of course.

So it's not like, it's not too tense. But if you run out of things, of options, it can get pretty ugly, you know? And if you have a cassette player and you have like 10 cassettes by the end of you know four weeks on the road you're miserable yeah you've worn them out yeah was the vibe in the van different after a good show versus a bad show did could you feel it the next day yeah i think you have a lot more energy you know you're getting propelled along to the next show there's something demoralizing about you know

a show that 10 people come to and you're like why am i doing this it's exhausting and you know we played a show in um uh, Kentucky on Kentucky Derby Eve one time. It was great. It was just a packed place. And one of the bands said, hey, do you guys want to go on last? Because I think you guys are bigger than us. And we're like, oh, wow, that's really a compliment. Yeah, sure.

Yeah, we should probably go on less that's when the headliner goes on right and they totally knew what they were doing because they went on at like midnight played till 1 30 and then everybody left and then we made it on stage about two o'clock 2 30 and there's like one guy passed out at a table. So they knew that was going to happen. That's amazing. I just feel so old when I realize there was a time when people would watch bands

at 2 in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. That was just, oh, God. That's crazy. What I wouldn't give to have that youth. Yeah, playing in Brazil is still like that. I mean, nobody comes out until like 10 o'clock.

And those festivals, when you're lucky enough to get asked to play Rio in a festival, there's a good chance you're going to go on at like 3 or 4 in the morning. Wow. It's insane. Yeah. But it's insane, and it's wrong. Yep. I just want to ask quickly, you know, we were born in Chicago.

We went to Northwestern, spent a lot of time in Chicago. I've still never been to the Wisconsin Dells. I don't really know what it is. Like, I imagine it's like sand dunes and a lake, but I have no idea. So when you go there with your family, what goes on at the Wisconsin Dells? Or is it Dell? It's Dells. Okay.

Well, I think it's man-made. It's like basically this sort of flooded area, like a lot of works project things, like the Lake of the Ozarks, I think. I don't know the history of it completely. Yeah. But we've never really spent too much time in the actual Dells. Okay.

You spend a lot of time on the little main drag where there's fudge shops and a Ripley's, believe it or not, things like that. Gotcha. Candy stores. Yeah, classics. There's one thing you have to do. You get on a duck, a Wisconsin duck, like it's an amphibious vehicle. Duck boat.

Yeah. It's a boat that drives on the road and then goes plunging into the water. You drive around for a little while in the water and then you drive back out of the lake. And that's exciting for some reason. Yeah. They got them in Boston. We've been we've been on a duck yeah yeah a duck boat and um but the main thing is what the water parks and then they started developing the water parks to be year round you know so they'd have these indoor water parks and for a couple of young kids to go to an indoor water park in the middle of January is pretty exciting and just completely disgusting. I mean, this sheer amount

of urine in the water. Our mother insists that anyone that stands near sort of the end of a water slide is just waiting to see girls bathing suits get flipped off and that's why at some point she was like i'm done with water parks and that was her logic she's like i don't want people wow just uh looky lou she thought it was a scam perpetrated by the peeping tom community wow yeah cut out the middleman that's a i don't your mother, but that's a dismal outlook. Yeah, well, she wasn't pro-water park to begin with. So she needed a reason. And that was enough for us to be like, okay, mom, you don't have to.

She cooked up a scandal. Yeah, she did. She cooked up a fake news scandal. That was before QAnon. There was our mom's water slide yeah all right you've been uh wonderful oh it's always so lovely to see you but now now it's time to get grilled oh okay we have questions we ask all our guests jeff and you're no exception all right all right here you go you can only pick one of these. Is your ideal vacation relaxing, adventurous, or educational?

Relaxing. Yeah. What is your favorite means of transportation? I mean, tour buses are fun. I actually like being on a tour bus. In your perfect version of a tour bus, what are you doing as the beautiful country goes by your window? I like playing guitar and watching.

Just the cliche. Just right into the cliche. Yeah, like on a steel horse I ride. Like I just. If you could take a vacation with any family, alive or dead, fictional or real, other than your own, what family would that be? I really like my family um no it can't be them can't be that family yeah he's coming back in the next question well i haven't

been like shopping around is what i'm saying yeah i see i see yeah yeah i got my eyes on this uh family of six um yeah like i don't know like the Romanovs I guess that's good that's a really good answer the Romanovs very literate yeah if you were stranded on a desert island with one member of your family who would it be my wife

absolutely good call and Belleville is it Belleville Illinois is your hometown would you recommend Belleville, is it Belleville, Illinois is your hometown? Yeah. Would you recommend Belleville for a family trip, for a family vacation? I'd have to get a good look at the family first. That's good. That's very smart.

Not enough people take the family into account. Yeah, know your customer. I think that if you're a family, say a certain time of the year when maybe the county fair is happening at the fairgrounds and there's some demolition derby happening or if you like a livestock show, things like that, like a low stakes kind of carnival vibe, you'd have a good time. And I think, yeah, I could have a good time. Awesome. You'd have a good time. And I think, yeah, I could have a good time.

Awesome. If you're looking for culture and education, like museums and stuff like that, no, I don't know. That family might want to go somewhere else. I imagine based on your dad's profession, you might see a passing train or two. You'd hear a lot of trains. You'd see some passing trains. You'd get stopped by a lot of trains. There's a lot of train track in that part of the world,

like around St. Louis. And yeah. Sure. Heavy metal drummer, where is that? When you wrote that song, where were you picturing? When I was growing up and we were playing in the early days of Uncle Tupelo and St. Louis, that was like making it is getting gigs in St. Louis is the only, you know, like that was like making it is getting gigs in St. Louis and bands like us tended to get gigs in this other, this part of town near the university,

near Washington University. And then the bands that were sort of bigger and had bigger followings played in a part of town called the Landing, which was more of like a touristy part of town. And a lot of them tended to be kind of cover bands that would draw a lot of people and there was like a lot a lot of crossover there weren't a lot of bands that played in both areas but that part of town had later a later liquor license so we would play our show and then to go somewhere to still be able to drink or whatever we would end up on the landing watching like these you know top 40 bands or sort of more just much more uh you know just more professional bands you know doing their thing and just ignorantly being

superior or so feeling superior to these guys that are just kicking ass playing Van Halen covers you know like and and um you know again like it's just a re-evaluation as I got older I wrote that song guys god like what like what's wrong with me you know like that's like so much fun they were having so much fun there was so much like just it's just good it was just something good for people to do was like what was wrong with me you know i will tell you now that i can also hear it as fun nostalgia for that like i think there's a way to listen to that song and take the judgment out of it and it is just almost a kick-ass celebration of that yeah i hear the morning of it i mean i hear what you're saying i mean it's written in a way that's like, oh, I remember when I did this, but it's really written from the point of view. It's like,

why didn't I do that? You know, like why? It's you were born in the USA. Yeah. Why did what stopped me? Yeah. It's about Vietnam. Everyone acts like it's a big party track. Completely misunderstood. I'm going to be the guy from now on where someone puts that on in a barbecue i'm like you know jeff was actually really sad when he wrote this yeah yeah yeah you can say that he's having a good time now but he was this is his missed opportunity he was in mourning that's a pretty safe comment on almost any thing that people put on that i've been a part of. Seth's got our last questions.

All right. Jeff, have you been to the Grand Canyon? I have. And is it worth it? It's been a long, long time. I was really young. My belief is that, yes, it would be worth it. But you haven't gone back?

It's out of the way. A lot of the traveling that I've done yeah we've tried to make time to go back through you know on days off my myself in particular i love finding like a national park or things that we can go places i can go and hike and stuff but i've never made it back and i would love to all right seth is anti i'm anti we will let you know. Seth's against. I'm pro. Is it because of vacation? Because of like when- No, I actually, the movie Vacation, I think that was a good selling point. It seems dangerous and far away.

Seth doesn't look for national parks to go hiking. It is dangerous. I think that it is certainly, you know, there are things you can do there that I wouldn't recommend doing, you know? Yeah. You you can do there that I wouldn't recommend doing, you know. Yeah. You have been name-dropped, speaking of national parks. You were name-dropped by a previous guest of the pod, Nick Offerman, about your adventures with him and George Saunders. From his telling and from how much I enjoy the three of you, that sounded like an incredible trip.

Absolutely. enjoy the three of you. That sounded like an incredible trip. Absolutely. I mean, once in a lifetime, but hopefully not once in a lifetime. And we'll get another opportunity. I mean, it was right before the pandemic. So we really haven't had a chance. The idea was that we were going to do that every year, find a place to go. And, you know, Nick and I have done a little hiking since, but we haven't hooked up with George again since that trip to Glacier. Three very special people. I was very jealous of it. And we do want to take a moment

to thank you so much for writing the theme song for this podcast. It makes us happy every time we hear it. Yeah, appreciate it. I did my best. It's great. I mean, our dad sings it all the time. Oh, nice.

He says he finds himself walking around the house just singing it. Oh, wow. I can't wait to tell him you were sad when you wrote it. Yeah, I was so sad. You know, Jeff was really going through a tough period when he wrote this. Yeah, every time when he wrote it, he was just thinking about how his dad was just working the railroad. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My dad never got to write a song for a podcast. Thank you so much, Jeff. All right, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Great talking to you. Appreciate it. Thanks.

Great talking to you, too. Bye, buddy. Take care. Bye. He was took a little trip that involved some poodle shit Down to the lake of the Ozarks He was just a little boy down from Billville, Illinois Went to a pier where you could fish after dark And he knocked a railroad flashlight in the lake People said he scared the fish away

Yeah, Jeff Tweedy sunk a flashlight It was bright, it Tweedy sunk a flashlight. It was bright. It was a really good flashlight. It stayed on overnight. That's right.