Family Trips with the Meyers Brothers - MATT & TOM BERNINGER on Growing Up in Cincinnati, The National’s Brotherly Tensions, and the Documentary Mistaken for Strangers

Episode Date: August 26, 2025

This week Seth and Josh are joined by another set of brothers…Matt and Tom Berninger! They chat about the making of a documentary directed by Tom all about Matt’s band The National, memories throwing stars and dart guns, camping with cousins, their family prayer that included “Tom” diminishing their joy, a house that burned down, a Canadian canoe trip, their mom who peed her pants in a movie theater, and so much more! Plus, Matt’s new album, Get Sunk, is out now! Support our sponsors: Square Get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at square.com/go/trips! #squarepod Quince Go to Quince.com/TRIPS for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty-five -day returns. Blueland Right Now Blueland has a special offer for listeners. Right now, get 15% off your first order by going to Blueland.com/trips About the Show: Lifelong brothers Seth Meyers and Josh Meyers ask guests to relive childhood memories, unforgettable family trips, and other disasters! New Episodes of Family Trips with the Meyers Brothers are available every Tuesday. Executive Producers: Rob Holysz, Jeph Porter, Natalie Holysz Creative Producer: Sam Skelton Coordinating Producer: Derek Johnson Video Editor: Josh Windisch Mix & Master: Josh Windisch Episode Artwork: Analise Jorgensen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, my name. Hey, Jeffrey. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Good. You know my father-in-law, Tom. I sure do.

Just guys on top of everything. Yeah. I realize he's just been a gift to me in that everything I found boring that he said is fascinating to my kids. Oh, yeah. It skips a generation. He's the kind of guy who'll say like, hey, you know what kind of rock that is? And I'm like, not only do I not know. if I did I would not want to talk about it

and yet my kids are just like they love it he's pointing it rocks it's like they're seeing a magic show based in nature it's the best yeah yeah but there is the thing he does and my wife does which is if they get word you know that like somebody saw a whale

you know off the coast yeah they'll say we should go try to see the whale yeah which is just shocking to me because they move. Right? You know what I mean? Like, it's just, you know, it's like, if somebody said, like, look, whale, like, I'm not a jerk.

I'll turn around and look. Yeah. But, you know, if we're talking about where, hey, where in the ocean was the whale, it feels to me like the moment's already lost. Yeah. Did they find a whale? No. Did they go out and find a whale? No.

I was, last time I was out there in Martha's Vineyard with you, we went, we did go looking for a whale. and we did not find it. They were just like reports. Yeah, reports of whales. Was that the time where mom was like, we need to get mom home because she was not. No. She did not look whale.

She looked on whale. Maybe it was. But we did come upon like a super pod of dolphins. That was amazing. It was amazing. Unbelievable. But then Ash had sort of been promised whale and he was like, dolphins.

Where's the whale? A hundred dolphins. He's like, it was more than a hundred dolphins. It was so many dolphins. And I'd like to just say, you know, that was the case where, you know, it's like a, you know, a watched teapot never boils. Mm. You know. Yeah.

I don't know if I talked about, did I tell you that I went on a whale watch recently here? No. I was a port of Long Beach when Scott Rolland, my father-in-law, was in town. We were going to go to the Huntington Gardens one day. And then McKenzie just sort of like threw out there as another possibility, like, or we could go on this whale watch. And I was like, whale watch. I just don't even think of it as a thing that you do out here. And we drove down to San Pedro and the Port of Long Beach,

which is fascinating just in terms of its scope and scale. And then we got on this boat, and we sort of cruised down the coast. And sure enough, like about an hour and 15 minutes into it, we see a humpback whale. You saw its tail come out a couple times. It was a lovely afternoon. All right. So hour 15 there, that means an hour and 15 back.

That's like a pretty young day on the boat. Was it a comfortable boat? It was. That's good. And I will say, like, you know, this, I call him a kid just because he's younger than me. He was probably like mid-20s, maybe late-20s, but he works at the, why can I think of the word, the aquarium down there. Great. And he was sort of the voice on the mic for most of the trip and was getting.

giving some information about, you know, there are these islands that are sort of essentially oil rigs, that they've built islands to make them not look like oil rigs because they're just off the coast, just like had a lot of information. And he was so good at keeping things positive and sort of good information just about like the seabirds and, you know, different things about whales and preservation. And really, I thought, did an excellent job. I think it's a tough job, especially when you're going out and you might not see a whale. He really kept the atmosphere light. And then when we see a whale, it's super exciting. I feel like, did we go whale watching in Scotland and went over for whales? Yeah, I think we went.

It was more dolphins. We were like on a lock. Yeah, either way. We saw a whale in there was going to be, yeah. I mean, we were maybe going to see, I don't know if it was Loch Ness. No, that was different. We went. And then we definitely, we saw it twice, I remember.

We saw Nessie twice. Nessie. It like big old, big old long neck once and then the second time really close. Because remember it held up. I remember this. I don't remember we held up one of the fins to its mouth and went, shh. And we, based on, we knew. Yeah.

We do. And then everyone put their cameras and their phones down. Yeah, because it was, it did like sort of like a no, no, no. No, it did, like, the Jekembi Matumbo finger. Finger wag. Yeah. So we all put our cameras down. That was that. It's interesting.

Doesn't have a Scottish accent. A lot of people wonder. Oh, yeah. Nessie does not. Nessi is like very, whatever a sea creature sounds like, but it's not. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I went to a show this weekend.

What did you see? I saw Rufus Duesol. Great. This is a reminder how much cooler you are than me. EDM. Do you know what EDM stands for? Correct out of dysfunction medicine. Yes, okay.

Sponsored by C. Ellis. Electronic dance music. It was at the Rose Bowl. Okay. And kind of hard to get to, but McKenzie was teaching at a horse show up in Santa Barbara. And I was like, if you can't make it, like we can sell these tickets. She's like, no, I want to go to this show. So she came straight from Santa Barbara.

and um 57 000 people wow is the is the number and this show was great um and uh it was it was so fun and we got great seats on the on the floor like a year ago i bought tickets a year ago and when i bought them and put it in the calendar mackenzie and i have a shared calendar and it sort of pinged on her phone and she's like what like how you why did you buy tickets for this now and i was like because this is when they went on sale and uh it was so glad that I did. So my question to you is, like, where do you think you're age-wise you were of the people down on the floor? I was, you know, definitely older than most, but there were people that were older than me. There was also, like, there was a dad right in front of us

with his, like, 11, 12-year-old kid that was great. And every now and again. You also, I'm, I'm I've noticed this recently. Like, I don't think people think you look your age because the other day somebody asked me, how's your brother? And I was like, he's great. And then I was talking about him at some point. I was like, no, he's the best. He's like a 49-year-old newlywed. And they were like, Josh is 49.

I was like, yeah. Well, I mean, I'm 51. And they were like, yeah. I was like, oh. Yeah. Yeah. They were like, oh, no, that's fine. I don't know what I guess.

Like, certainly anywhere from 51 to 59, but like, posh, 49. Um, but yeah, so there were, you know, there were people older than me, people younger than me. I also, I wore, because McKenzie was coming after me, I wore that orange jacket that I was wearing in Amsterdam. Oh, gotcha. To be like, like, right. Yeah. And she found you.

I'm going to, yeah, I was like, I'm going to be in the middle, uh, you know, a little bit back from the stage where it's going to be a little more room and I'm going to wear this jacket. And, you know, I was probably there two hours before her. I saw the opener. and people kept sort of standing near me and then, like, calling people and be like, I'm standing next to the guy in the orange jacket.

Oh, so you were a beacon for other people as well. I was a beacon for a lot of people. That's wonderful. And this one dude was like, oh, man, I'm going to stand next to you all night. And I was like, all right. And he was like, you couldn't bring, if you bought like a can of beer or seltzer or water, a bottle of water, you had to pour it in a plastic.

cup if you were where we were. So this guy had this big plastic cup and he's like, oh, awesome. I'm going to stand next to you. Do you want some seltzer? And he just held this big plastic cup. I was like, no, I'm good. He's like, do you want any drugs? And I was like, I'm good. He's like, all right, cool, man. But it was that kind of friendly. It would be really funny if the minutes someone was like, I'm next to guy in the orange jacket. You just bolted. Oh, yeah. Just like, classic go looking for whales the next day. Yeah. All right. So I have my question. Question, answer this both for the whale watching boat and the concert.

Did you have a cocktail? Yeah, I had a cocktail at the concert, and I had a beer on the boat. I think a beer is better way to go. A couple beers on the boat. A couple Pacificos, which have that, like, sort of nautical label. Yep. Taste like, taste, it's a good sea brew. Yeah. Wonderful. We got a couple of brothers.

Yeah, we sure do. Berniger brothers. Matt, lead singer of the national, a band that also has two more sets of brothers in it. Nuts. And Tom, his younger brother, who you'll hear, has made a documentary about being on the road with the band. And, yeah, I just like talking to brothers.

There's something about it. I don't know what it is. Good dudes. All right, buddy. Well, enjoy this. Enjoy a little music before we get into a couple of guys in the music biz. Family Chips with the Miles Brothers. Family Chips with the Myers brothers.

Here we go. Whoa, whoa. Hi, Josh. What's happening? Hi, guys. How are you, fellas? Good. Good.

It's very exciting to have you on because I think the National is one of the most brother forward bands we have working today. Yeah, us in Oasis. Yeah, that's true. You and Oasis. But Oasis is back for how long does anyone actually think

they're going to be back for? That's a good question. I hope for a while. I hope so too, but I mean it's... I didn't get tickets, so I hope I can see it. Yeah, exactly. Same same. From a wide shot, it does seem like

you guys have handled Brotherhood maybe a little bit better. Maybe. Maybe. I mean, yeah, no, no, we got ours, our groups of brothers in the national are sort of, they all kind of balance each other out. You know, there's, you know, there are brotherly tensions, but then the fact that there's like an other set of brotherly tensions. And then Tom and I, you know, we all kind of get it. So, so that maybe there's a little bit of, you know, diplomacy that happens with us that maybe doesn't happen in Oasis. Yeah, you can't have that moment where you sort of turn to the rest of your band and say, you don't, you guys don't understand. Right. This is for other stuff. That is true.

That's true. I mean, honestly, when Tom came on tour to, it made a, made a documentary, you know, it wasn't and intended to be a thing about, you know, necessarily Tom or anything, but that was so clearly the most interesting part of everything is all the brothers and all the, the, the, the, perspectives like that and that what that's what yeah that's how that story you kind of zeroed in on that so all right so i just want to get it so tom you directed a documentary of the band but you were just the plan was that you were just going to travel with the band correct yeah i mean well um i was in new york and i was peeing at a bunch of movies and i you know i had a choice to figure out what i want to do in the

film industry or leave and i got really freaked out and my brother's like just come on tour with us You can shoot like a tour diary, like every day, just show, you know, and they'll throw it up on YouTube or just small little snippets, little short films about the band. And I thought that was great. And that's, yeah, that's how I initially kind of started just filming everything. And it was my first time to Europe. It was my first time really traveling the world and going to all these, like, even small places in the United States. And I just had a camera and just ran around by myself sometimes with Matt.

And we, yeah, and that was initially it. And I wasn't my idea to put myself in the movie for a very, very long time. When did you realize that it was going to be more than just sort of snippets he'd put online when you realize, oh, this is going to be a full documentary? Well, you know, I guess halfway through, I started doing these little short films like like 30 second to a minute long little. goofy, really goofy shorts about all the band members. And my brother kind of really liked that and kind of helped me out on that. And it made us laugh. I think you can still find them on the Nationals website somewhere.

I look back, I'm like, those were interesting. That was a learning process. But I think it came to my brother that it was more about me. No, it was Corinne. I mean, my wife, my wife saw those. And, you know, and we were, you know, at the time, you know, we kind of were, we were, we were goofing around and we were, we were faking a lot of, like, a lot of ridiculous stuff. I can't remember, you know, Tom had me climbing trees and hopping over, you know, the barriers and just, you know, I mean, just stupid, stupid, um, almost, you know, three stooges kind of, kind of goofball stuff. And we were just having fun. Tom and I were just, were just, you know, going around all these cities and, and, uh, just hanging out being silly. And, and, and we thought that would be kind of just fun content, you know, um, and my wife looked at him, my wife Corinne and, and

she's like, it's not these, she's, she just said, this is, these aren't funny enough. She's like, yeah. And she was like, but then, but then all the other stuff of us arguing over like what to do. And she's like, that stuff, you know, the stuff that were, that was like, um, the stuff that was kind of more actual tensions where she's like she's like if you're going to make you know she kind of was saying like I don't think you guys should do this at all at first and um but then which I was fine with by the way I'm like okay good I don't want to deal with this but yeah right I'll just stay on tour and hang out yeah yeah but I think we were I think we were a little determined I was determined to make to do something so so she really jumped in and and and we started

you know, um, pulling, pulling together the direction of, uh, of, like, what, what this could be about. And, you know, so it ultimately became a thing about Tom trying to make something cool and then have struggling to figure out what that thing is. And so it was really a, a project about a creative, uh, crisis that Tom had to figure his way through, uh, which was, you know, which is very in line with being in a band and like in all the tension so so so tom's struggle with figuring out what kind of film to make and and what his role in this whole thing was what was crin's she kind of set the compass for the movie in that way and then was very very involved and and you know being brutally honest about every little bit she's like i'm bored here this is

like you know and so she was she was a good voice to have yeah yeah yeah yeah Yeah. And she's an editor. She's a fiction editor. But her voice is really, really what, I think, focused the film for all of us. And she and Tom worked really closely together for a long time, like, pulling it together. I will say, like, as a feedback note, that's very hard to hear, but there's a real clarity to, I'm bored here. You know what I mean? Like, if you're trying to tell a story and somebody says that, it's kind of hard to argue with, you know, if somebody says, like, I don't get this joke, you can be like, well, yeah, you have a terrible sense of humor. But if somebody's, like, fully bored, and you're like, all right, well, you can't figure it out. Yeah. Yeah.

We had a lot of, like, editing sessions, like, notes, like, people come over that Matt and Corinne knew. I guess we were living in L.A. at the time. And, like, and they... We had Greg Daniels come over and give us notes at one. Yeah. Oh, wow. Remember? The reader of the office.

Yeah, that's... Yeah, but... I don't know how we got him to our house. But he gave us amazing notes, but yeah. Corinne was really good at, like, reading the... Like, it's a... I don't... I don't know if I still have it, but like, when you get notes, how do you read those notes?

What is it actually... What are all these people saying these different kind of things? What are they actually kind of narrowing in on, you know? Or what's working? You know, you can find, you know, when you get notes, like it was overwhelming, but she was really good at figuring out this is actually what they're trying to say here. You know, we've got to fix this part. So that she was amazing. So you guys have a different, you know, brother relationship that Josh and I do based on the fact that with nine-year age gap.

So what was your childhood like? Were you, I mean, it's so hard, I would imagine, to be that close when you're that far apart. Yeah, I don't know Matt's childhood at all personally. Yeah. Yeah, right. It was awful until Tom showed up. And you have another sibling older than you, Matt? Yeah, we, our sister, Rachel, is a year and a half older than me.

And Rachel and I were really close, are still really close. But when Tom, Tom came, it was, I kind of, I mean, it was, he was obviously like a toy for us, you know. We were nine and 11 or whatever. And he was, but it was really fun. It was, like, from right away, Tom was hit, we were, he was, he was, he delighted everybody, even as a baby. And so his, he grew up, I think, entertaining us and just being like the funniest, the sweetest, the most. And we just, so, so when, but when Tom was, I'd say seven or eight and I was, you know, 16, we were already becoming. or, you know, or he was, he was, he was, he was, he was a 10 or whatever, like we, and I would, we were, we were, we were, we were becoming friends when you were really little, Tom. I mean, I remember like, I remember you and I watching movies together, uh, like his peers when you were a little kid, predator. Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, Matt, you, you, you, you, I mean, I say this a lot, but it's like, my love of movies and, like, you would take me, Matt would take me to see movies all the time.

as as an 18-year-old, you know, he would take me just, you know, I remember seeing Terminator 2 opening night in the theater at Springdale theaters, and we were like fourth in line with a bunch of adults. And I was obsessed with Arnold Schwarzenegger and, and it was amazing, you know, like, Robocop? You brought home Robocop. That's different, though. Robocop terrified me.

I watched that the next day on VHS, like early in the morning. That was 87. I saw seven years old. And, uh, that's too early. That's too early. That's way too early. I'm one of my, you know, I'm one of those guys. I'm one of my favorite movies because, uh, it terror, it terrified me. My, our, our dad worked downtown. He was an attorney for years and he, as a little kid, he would take me up to, up to his building and show me his, like, you know, go to his office and look out over the city and you take me to the big, kind of big boardroom table with

glass windows and all these, a big table and looking out of the city. And, and when I saw Robocop, especially that scene with the big robot, Ed 209, coming in and killing this guy brutally. It gave me nightmares and it was something I'd never seen before. And for the longest time, I was terrified of

Robocop. Now, obviously, I'm one of those guys to my favorite, oh, Robocop so good. But Matt would really, Matt would take, he took me to see Pet Cemetery. He took me to see, yeah, he took me along to movies, concerts. I remember I went to see

Gougu dolls at Eden Park. And the lead guitarist, the Gougu dolls gave me his guitar pick. And then you took it from me, Matt. I'll take it from you. Yes, you did. You were going to lose it. Now we're realizing why Matt wanted to bring a 10-year-old with him. He's like, they're not going to give a pick to an 18-year-old.

That's exactly it. I held him up. He was like 10 years old, and I'm holding him up. You still made him wear a bonnet, even though he was 10? Yeah. That's all help. Trust me. Well, like, he also took me, I want to say, like, one of my first celebrity person that I knew was Kevin Neelan was doing, was doing a comedy show at a Miami Whitewater Forest Park in the west side of Cincinnati.

It was the weird, like, it was my first time seeing somebody, because I also liked, we never had cable. So we never read cable. So Saturday Night Live was this kind of thing that I was able to watch. And it was goofy, funny. I didn't get half of it, but people acting goofy, right? And Kevin Neal was on at the time. And I just couldn't believe I was seeing somebody here, like on the west side of Cincinnati in the Miami Whitewater. And here he is doing a little show for people.

Outside. Outside in a park. Yeah, outside in a park. It was wild. And so you guys grew up outside of Cincinnati then? west side of Cincinnati, like right on the border of Indiana. And I mean, it's suburban, you know, but my uncle had a farm about 45 minutes away. So we spent a lot of time on, I spent a lot of time on that farm. And you did too, Tom, when, you know, and he had a Christmas tree farm.

So it was, it was typical kind of suburban zone, but we did spend a lot of time in, like, in the country at relatives. Was that summertime that you would head out to the farm? Yeah, yeah. We would, I mean, it was, you know, we had older cousins and they all, you know, we would hike the railroad tracks. I describe it as very stand by me. Yeah. And, you know, we have, you know, rifles and camping and, and, you know, creaking and hiking and it was just all we ever did. And working the farm, which was sometimes, it was tobacco farm and then they switch it to a Christmas tree farm. And I worked on that farm all through college. And so that was a big part of our childhood. I mean, I think both of us, I mean, in some ways. Yeah, I worked on the crystal tree farm for four summers with my, with my friend John Keefe. Yeah, I would bring friends down to work on the front tree.

What's the summertime work at a Christmas tree farm? Pruning, pruning. Gotcha. And mostly, it wasn't like a farm with rose. It was rolling hills and woods. It was kind of like go search, go up. hills and find your own tree and so it was a constant mostly what we were doing was is is is beating back the the briars and the in the stuff uh and so we would go out with like weed eaters that had

or weed whackers but had saw blades on the bottoms of them just mowing down all this stuff so it was brutal hot uh we'd come back just covered in scratches and it was awful uh it was the hardest thing i've ever done and then but the but the but the winter was great you just like go walk with families to find a tree and carry it back to their car and tie it up and with you know it was it was a lot of fun would you be tasked with cutting the tree down was that yeah yeah i mean that seems very empowering yeah there was too like you could either the whole point was like the family had come out bring their own saw and you could go out and cut the tree down yourself which was kind of an experience but also uh i i never like you worked the the winters i didn't i was in high school and

didn't want to work to winters, but that also, you know, our uncle had, like, three strapping boys that would, like, work the farm and they would cut the trees down for people as well. I do want to say that, like, kids with rifles walking down a railroad track both reflects a simpler time and also a post-apocalyptic future. Like, it really is one of those images I can break either way. You know, like, if it's, like, 2051, I'm like, oh, no. Oh, yeah.

Well, we, I remember, we were, I mean, this was, I mean, and this is funny, but, but, I mean, But my uncles and my dad were all, you know, very progressive and especially for west side of Cincinnati. You know, but we still, we still, you know, the guns were a big part of the culture on the farm. And we would go to the gun and knife shows. And, you know, you'd buy everything from throwing stars to, you know, grenade ordinances. I mean, we had, I mean, my cousins had an M-16. We were shooting M-16s on the farm, you know. Wow. But this is true is that I think it was like in the 80s, mid the late 80s that one of the, my cousins, and I don't think they ever told their parents' stories that they had a pistol in their bedroom.

They all everybody, everybody had pistols, you know, and stuff. And they were showing a friend of theirs, this pistol and it went off. And the four of them. My three cousins and their friend were in a small bedroom upstairs, and the thing just went off, blew a hole in the wall in between all of them. And that's when they just got rid of them all. They just like, wow. Like, this is, these aren't toys. Did they tack up a poster over the whole?

Yeah, totally. I mean, they covered it up. It was a Rita Hayworth poster. It was just like Shawshank. And so that was one of those moments for like, you know. And thank God, no one it was ever. killed but yeah but but but the guns were just you know all that stuff was was just kind of a part of the and it wasn't there wasn't any like politicalness to that stuff sure of then you know

it's funny i will say like growing up around the same time it is funny you mentioned like throwing stars were such a i feel like i knew like four different guys who were like yeah you want to see my throwing star and it was just like that like ninja culture was such a funny thing that was happening in the 80s. They were like, I remember we would make throwing stars out of popsicle sticks that you could like sort of weave them together and then they would, you know, bust

apart upon impact. Yeah. I bought a throwing star and a, and a dart gun. It might have been in Gatlinburg. Like, Gatlinburg, Tennessee always had like, it was a tourist place, you know? So they had like, Ripley's, believe it not,

next to like a place where you can buy suits of armor and battle acts. and stuff. And so I remember I bought a throwing star in Gatlinburg, Tennessee, you know, with, with a big blowgun, which dad used the, he wanted the blowgun to hit, to not kill the squirrels, but to like, you can either buy the really long darts. Yeah. You know, like needles and or you can buy like little like, like little, little, uh, plastic nubs and you can, and you hit, you know, squirrels with them at backyard. So it was for him and myself. One, they always say Tennessee just because of the ninja community down there. That's the best place to get a start. Two, I will say, if I had, if I shot a non-lethal blow dart that hit a squirrel, that would be the greatest athletic achievement. I can only imagine what that would feel like, just to watch a little squirrel, like, ah. Yep, yep.

Our dad, our dad, we had a, we had a garden and we didn't have a, like, a farm in the west side of Cincinnati. But he was so trying to protect his corn. his tomatoes and everything in his garden and things would get in there every night so we would camp out in the backyard in a tent with guns and um and and like my we'd have shotguns and my dad and i we'd wait for for the animals to come in the middle night and then he had he would think that he would throw on the floodlights and shoot at whatever's there usually raccoons and i remember one night um we heard something we saw the rustling he throws on the lights and he starts blowing away And all the corn is swollen. He's shooting down all the corn.

And it was a skunk. And he hit a skunk. And it just exploded the neighborhood. And it was, yeah. So, yeah, there was always about, you know, protecting the crops or protecting the land. It was kind of silly. I'm sure the neighbors were bummed out about the skunk that got blown apart. But, like, in general, a shot going off in the middle of the night, I'm sure that wasn't necessarily appreciated by the neighborhood. I know. And we, I mean, the houses weren't that far apart from each other.

Yeah, but it was, it was funny. Yeah, I mean, I think the neighborhood knew that must be Paul Burning or, you know, protecting his garden. It is funny when you actually have a garden that you realize Peter Rabbit is the villain in those stories. You know, you're just like, yeah, no, everybody likes his rabbit. But trust me, he's not doing jack shit to grow this lettuce. Yeah. But he, but then he switched, like, he used to have, like, leg traps and stuff. But then you switched to have a heart trap

to the ones that closed down, the cages. And so, you know, because mice, you know, we were just like, we just felt bad killing it. So, so, but, yeah, I remember multiple times, like taking a groundhog in a Habahart trap, five miles away and letting it loose. We did that 15 times when I was a kid. Wow.

Yeah, we, yeah, we had just mice in the attic, and it was like a tipping mechanism where they would walk in. And so, yeah, and I, uh, I remember our joke was you'd go in the backyard and let them, they would run, do a 180 and just run back in the area. Yeah, we weren't taking a five miles away. Obviously, that is a loophole in our plan was not realizing you to drive them farther away. Hey, we're going to take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors.

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I applied right from my iPhone, got approved in minutes, and now I can get daily cash back on everything travel-related without paying any fees. I saw an action when you picked up the bill last time I was in L.A. Well, you didn't have your wallet or your phone. Oh, my phone was in my pocket. But you love your Apple Card, right? Yes, because when I use Apple Card with Apple Pay, I can just tap to pay, and I'm done. I can track my purchases in the wallet app and get up to 3% cash back and even stash it

and a high-yield Apple Savings account that I opened through Apple Card. No fees, no fuss, just daily cash I can use or save. And that titanium card? Always a conversation starter. It's sleek, secure, and seriously useful for stress-free travel with no visible card numbers on it. Subject to credit approval, savings available to Apple Card owners. Subject to eligibility savings at Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank, USA member FDIC variable APRs range from 18.24% to 28.4%. to 28.49% based on creditworthiness rates as of July 1st, 2025, terms and more at applecard.com. my oldest cousin was I guess like four or five years older than I was and then and so it was three boys and then there was a girl my age and then my sister a little older and then Maria who was another so there's two girls and three boys and then my sister and I this is kind of before Tom when Tom was still a baby yeah we would all it would be no parents and it would I mean we would we had built so many not just like we built like forts and trees and tree houses they're

you know they were out there there had nothing to do out there they were what they're pretty far out and and uh and so the the five those my five cousins um were just had built the most incredible uh adventure land in the woods and once one winter they built a a uh a ice shoot in between that went down a big hill that would go around the trees like like a like a like a what do you call them a um a toboggan a luge a luge a luge a luge a lube a bobsled a wendy a bobbly a bha Luz Trail because we had so much snow and they packed this ice. And so we would we would go down on our sleds and this like in and out of trees and really, really dangerous, really dangerous stuff.

And so there was they, you know, very little supervision, but but also an unhealthy amount of trust, I think, in us as kids, never doing anything too bad. But yeah, I would never let, you know, my kid, do 90% of the stuff that they let us do when we were kids. I know, but it's so, I mean, as a kid, I just keep thinking, oh, my God, a luge trail through Christmas tree farm. That sounds like every kid's dream. And at the same time as a parent, I'd be like, no. Yeah. Right.

Was there a time when Tom started being brought on those overnights in the woods? Like, once he's seven or whatever? I don't, I don't, I think they were, you were like, you know, by that time, if I was able, you were already like 14, I guess for, I don't remember anything like that. Okay. It took me, I was only in my, like, mid to late 20s that I realized that I was not supposed to, the family unit was already created between my brother and my sister. And then there was some joke that my sister made during like Thanksgiving dinner, like then Tom came along. And like, I, I, I, I honestly, I had no idea like it all, it all made sense to me. It all like, like, oh, right, nine years. Like, they were finished. And that was the family. And then here I am.

And so I think they did a few things differently. We had a family prayer that my dad had written. And we don't do it anymore, but we would hold hands every dinner and pray. And one of the, he wrote it himself. He didn't want to do anything else. So he wrote a prayer. And one of the lines is, it's not something, something. It's our holy family, Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, thank you for bringing us together for this meal.

We ask not let any time separate us or diminish our joy until we meet with you in heaven, amen. Or let time diminish our joy. Yeah. And our joke every time, we have to, when Tom was, let Tom diminish our joy. So we changed the prayer. And so it was, we laughed and laughed. and he was like six years old and he just didn't know

it was so funny about that. It is really funny that you made it all the way until your 20s that dawned on you? Like I just picture you at Thanksgiving like very slowly putting your silverware down

being like, well, well, well. They're like, oh, we thought you knew. Yeah, no. It was, uh, it was, it was, it was, it was a slow realization. Like, I got it at that point and then, then for the next couple days, I'm like, I cannot believe.

Like, I was not, I was not. Wait, what was your realization that you were like? That, I just never thought about that. Like, they didn't realize, because I've always felt behind you guys. I mean, I've always been a, not the black, I mean, like, my joke, the joke was my whole life, would you kind of laughing at me or, you know, it's just like, I get it now, you know, I get it. I mean, I've had fires in college.

I got a DUI. Like, you guys never did any of that stuff. You know, it's like my house burned, my apartment burned. you know, like, I've always my fault. Were you at fault on this apartment, Tom? I was like,

not necessarily. We didn't have... That's nodding, yes. Well, like, there was a candle. We, in college, I went to college in Montana, and there was, we had some friends over,

and we lit, we, my friend, we are all very artistic. So we had, like, we had an old lamp that didn't work. We cut the cord, and we stuck a candle

in where the light bulb would go. And at the bottom, the base of the light bulb would go. lamp was a really fancy or cool, stupid-looking lamp. We had the lampshade, and I guess we had friends over, somebody lit the candle. I didn't light the candle. I'm not going to say who, or I don't know who, but the candle was lit, and we left to go to another party, and then we honestly, we came back, we dropped off my friend's girlfriend.

We left again to go to Perkins, like a diner. And then when he came back, they're like, oh, Tom, looks like your apartment's on fire. And it was, and we got the girlfriend out, and the whole place burned down. And it was very traumatic for me. I laugh about it now, but I think our dad, you know, I also realized, not too long ago did I start realizing, oh, you know what? Because dads, our parents' insurance covered it all. I know my friends, you know, it's okay.

They didn't have, like, their homeowners insurance didn't cover, like, somebody away. And so I think dad's insurance covered it all. And I think that's now why mom and dad are, like, living off a sardine cans. Because it ruined. I honestly ruined them. I think mom and they would have a lot more money if I didn't burn down an apartment. What is? I can.

So I have, I only have the one younger brother as well, Matt. But, like, when you get a call like that, and again, there's more of a gap between you guys and me and Josh. But my parents used to call me when, like, Josh would do something. And, like, I just, the amount of, like, big brother, like, ugh. Like, just so disappointing. Again. It's funny. I mean, Tom, in a funny way, it wasn't because he was so much younger, we were all, I kind of always was, was nervous for him.

And so I mean, the truth is, like, he was, he was in college and he was, you know, off to college for the first time. And I, like, I know how crazy everything. And so when that happened, I knew that was going to be really be hard for him. take the wind out of his sails. No one was hurt, but it was just a, you know, really embarrassing thing.

And Brian Devendorf of the National. He also, Tom, burned his family's house down. I don't know if you know that. So it's like, it happens. It happens.

It happens, Tom. But, but, with a cigarette and in a trash can. But, but yeah, but I remember,

I remember not, not being, like, annoyed with Tom at all. It was like, oh, just like, like,

the last thing. he needs is that shit, you know? Right, right. That trauma. And it did. It took the wind out of your sales for a long time. I mean, a little bit in some ways. Yeah.

It did. It was just embarrassing. Had you, other than the farm in Indiana, were there other places you guys went on trips? We did. I mean, yeah. I mean, Tom, you, I mean, together, I mean, I did a lot of, like, the family trips before Tom was born, was like when I was a kid. but like we did canoeing trips

I remember one canoeing trip that in the Quatico boundary waters in Minnesota between Canada there's like all they just millions of connected lakes and we would do that a lot and we went there when Tom I guess you were I was I think 15 or 16

so whatever you're seven or eight or something and yeah and it rained for five days and camping so we just spent the whole time in our tents or just canoeing through the rain and everything like that. But you, I remember you had a fun and we kind of all had fun on that miserable vacation. But we did, well, we had that other big Canadian canoeing trip, which I remember a little bit of that was like when I was nine.

I think that's the same one. Is that it? Might be the same one. I don't know. I think, yeah. That's the same one? Oh, is that the one where you kind of like mom was so proud of you because you got her back to the safe.

there was a big rainstorm and you got her back, like, I don't know. She felt you became a man at that point in time. There was a big Canadian rain, rain torrent, and Matt saved my mom who sat in the canoe drinking wine as he canoed her back to our... You're a man today, son. But we, no, it wasn't, it wasn't, I think it wasn't Canada, Matt. Yeah, that's the same, it's the same boundary waters. Okay, yeah.

I mean, we, it was like a little, I just remember a little, we just had our campsite on a little island in the middle of these massive lakes. And I remember, Rachel, Rachel, I think in, I just remember the toilet, it was like this, it was like this, you go out from our, on the island, about maybe 200 yards and it was in the middle of like wet sticks and gross stuff. And I just remember that it was just a little, you know, no, no doors. It was a hole. in the ground with like a, you know, a seat on it. Like a wood, just like a wooden platform. Yeah, the wooden platform. And I wasn't just looking in there. I'm like, this is all my, this is, this is too much, you know, like, I don't know.

I remember there was like daddy long legs. Stop. Yeah. We did a, we did a boundary waters trip with my college friends right after we graduated. And it's really one of the most memorable trips in my life. But we, there was a game where any time anybody went into the woods. to go to the bathroom, somebody would sneak after them and try to get...

And again, this is like disposable camera pictures. Right. And it was called the pooperazzi. And a lot of times, because you would just catch somebody mid-squat, and so a lot of photos were like, just kind of side butt and a resigned face of someone being like, son of a bitch.

Because also, you can't stop. You can't be like, hey. And so we really, to this day, like, some of my favorite pictures are just everybody getting pooperatzeed in this really bad. Like, you dummies. that is a it it my also my memory of the boundary waters is how much of it was uh you know either pouring rain or super buggy or super hot and like the portages where you're sort of carrying

canoes overland and yet what a wonderful trip despite like remembering seven things about it that i distinctly hated it's weird there there were a lot of like i remember like back and around the time like guys like college guys taking guy canoeing trips is My cousins, we did it. And our family used to go either up to the canoeing area or down to Gatlinburg, Tennessee, you know, for hiking in the mountains and stuff. And Tom, you went to Gatlinburg with, like, with the family a bunch of times. I mean, yeah, yeah. I remember Gatlinburg a lot.

I mean, it just, I mean, I mainly remember all, like, the miniature golf, like the jungle golf and hillbilly golf and in the haunted houses that you could go there. like Gatlinburg was like for me that was there was I remember a lot of those trips a lot I mean as well as all the weapon stores yeah do you remember the jungle golf thing where the yeah losers had to go ahead yeah no well I remember there's a we have a picture which you don't like the show very much of some of you just like I guess we called it boofing a statue gorilla and it was it's fantastic we have it somewhere but for a long time you're very embarrassed by it I thought we But mom had us do it. We lost. And my mom, the losers had to go mount this gorilla and from behind. And the whole thing was, Mom, she wouldn't let it. We both had to do it. I think there was a picture of you doing it, too.

But she said, I remember Mom said, no, you have to do three thrusts. Now, this is the second time I realized I want to drill down more on your mom. She's funny. So what was her? What's your mom's vibe? She has, I mean, she's got a really dirty sense of humor. She just can't not, any, you know. Three thrust is so funny.

Yeah, she's so, she's really gross and she's really, really, yeah, anything, anything sexual, just like she can't let it go, just laughs about it so much. I think both our parents are like kind of grew up, you know, Catholic and they were, you know, they met each other in high school, you know. virgins when they got married and everything and so like for my mom anything sexual is just so so funny she just can't so um or anything disgusting like that and stuff so she's always been a bit of a you know a troublemaker when it comes to that stuff i mean we'll have big christmas dinners with people and somebody will say something i want to get an example but she'll like the dumbest obvious you know you know you know you know you know, dick reference, she'll make it. You know, she can't help. Like, corn on the car. Does your dad delight in her sense of humor? Oh, they both giggle.

He's like, oh, right. You know, no, this is really sweet. It's really funny, you know, they, they're, yeah, I don't know. My, my, my, my, one of my best memories of my mom, and I was, I was saving this for her funeral, but I'll say it here. Is that, like, I went to see, like, when Ace Ventura Pet Detective came out, I was obviously a big, you know, in a Living Color fan and Jim Carrey fan. And she had no idea. She had no idea.

And so I took her to see this thing with, she had to drive me. I was just a little kid. And she was laughing. We were both laughing so hard that she, kept farting and peeing in her pants. And she peed in her pants in the movie theater at Ascentura. And like, I had to help her out.

I had to, like, get, like, candy and, like, a popcorn thing so she can cover herself walking out of Ace Ventura Pet Detective. Oh, my gosh. And that was like, that's the best, you know, you know, she's the best. Was mom put on a popcorn bucket? Yes, that's a really fun. I think a good rule of thumb, if somebody walks out of a movie theater still holding popcorn, that means they piss themselves.

Yeah, just like a low. Oh, yeah, ordered too much. Going to bring it home. We'll have popcorn for dinner. That's great. So when you would go to Gallenberg, I assume that's sort of a. straight shot drive south from Cincinnati? Yeah, I can't remember.

It was like a six-hour drive or something like that, five-hour, six-hour drive. And that would be, you know, and it was kind of easy, cheap. And we would go through Pigeon Forge where they had like Dollywood and we would be Dollywood. We drove through that stretch a few years ago. And it's just one giant sort of themed park.

I mean, again, this is memory, but like, yeah, medieval world and pirate world. And I just thought, oh, this is, what a lovely thing for families to know that. A lot of water slide parks. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That kind of stuff.

Was there, did you have a favorite park in that stretch? That's a good question. No, there were so many. There was just like, like, and then they, you mean, every little hotel, like, would, there's, it's also kind of like, you know the area of Wisconsin Dells? Yeah. It's got a very similar thing. where it's just like, there's a stretch where it's just like different themed, you know, arcade attractions and go-karting and all that kind of stuff.

And, you know, so we would pop around. None of it was like a big park. You know, we did Disneyland and Disney World and Florida and stuff a few times. But the regular spots and the spots where I think I've always had the most fun or there's like, you know, pop in for a couple hours, you know. Yeah. They're like no IP, you know what I mean? And it's like, it's like peg-leg-peats, you know, roller coaster rodeo.

The biggest thing was, you know, Dollywood was like the big, that was like the big one, you know. Yeah. Yeah, but they were. Dollywood's great. I mean, they have the best log flume ride. I mean, I haven't been there in 25 years, but the log flume ride is like, is about 20 minutes long. It's going down the Smoky Mountains. And it's just something you got, you got, it's beautiful.

It's beautiful. Dollywood's fantastic. I was just saying I brought me. my nine-year-old to his first amusement park, and you are taken as an adult with the fact that the rides are a lot shorter than you remembered. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. But they're fine. The kids are filed. Hey, we're going to take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors. Support for today's episode comes from Square. Hey, Bajie. Yes, Sufi.

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Would you, you know, would you listen to, you know, did you have the same tastes in music if you're on these road trips? or no not really i mean my parents you know i always say like my parents had like about 25 records total right and and the whole time i remember you know and and it was james taylor and roberto flack and willy nelson and you know judy collins and i can't remember you know there were there there these these from that i feel like they they went they went like once or like a

they bought a bunch of records like one day at the mall and those were always the records but those records were really played a lot Barry Manilow I remember when I was a kid my mom was like a lot of Barry Maniloh

but it was my sister kind of for me brought home like when they had those record of the month 10 records for a nickel or whatever it was and signed up Columbia House whatever and she brought home the Smiths and U2

and REM and the Cure and that was when everything, you know, violent femmes, that's when everything kind of shifted for me and I fell in love with music in a different way. Where most of my friends were listening to Van Halen and that kind of thing, I, right, you know, because of my sister when I was probably in seventh or eighth grade,

I was like, there's something else other than that kind of thing. But Tom, when you started really getting into music, I think you kind of purposely, because I was always trying to show stuff, you know, alt rock or college rock down your throat. You, you sort of, I think, rebelled a little bit, didn't you? Well, yeah, I rebelled against you for sure. But, you know, particularly when I started really, when I got, like, my first, like, boom box and flip-up CD player, there was, like, it was, the two was that you gave me Nirvana's never mind,

and my friends were all listening to Metallica's black album. And I just liked Metallica's black album a lot. I just liked it more at the time. And so, yeah, and also I kind of got into that radio metal. I mean, when it was radio metal was really good. And then, you know, through early high school, I just was trying to, you know, as everyone does, just trying to define yourself. and I kind of wanted to pick something that nobody likes.

My brother doesn't like. I want to figure out an ex. I want to mind the good stuff. You know, I want to be an expert on what I thought was, like, dumb music. And so I, from Metallica, I got in the Slayer, and then I heard a Slayer's only cover song for their, and their classic years was a Judas Priest song. And from when I looked at Judas Priest, and I always thought they were. a hair band and I looked at Rob Halfer and he had like on a picture it was this like short

almost looked like like Billy Idol like bleach blonde short hair and like oh he doesn't have big big giant hair and like oh and then you then you look and it's they go back to the early 70s and I'm like oh nobody knows about this Judas Priest I'm going to get really into that and I can't Judas Priest only like only because like Judas Priest I guess at a time wasn't popular with my friends or anybody. I'm like, I'm going to get into this. And I still, I still, I still, I, it was a good decision. I think they're fantastic.

We are. Josh has had, Josh, I'm going to bust you on the poster you had of a band that I bet you never heard a song from. Do you remember you had like, it was like the cramps? Oh, yeah. I like the art. Yeah, it was like, this like skeleton with like a worm crawling out of his nose. It was like gross.

It's like, he was like on skateboards around. the same time, too. Like, there was something... The cramps and misfits and all that stuff. Yeah, but it was definitely... It was, like, music, Josh was rapper. It's very funny to be like, I like the album covers. I'm not a fan of the band.

Like... Yeah. Metal, yeah. I mean, I... You know, Matt showed me, like, the world of movies, way too young. And obviously, when he kind of left, I just... I loved movies so much. I got Gore-Zone and Fang,

Goria magazines. And I just, the, when you're looking at makeup artists and special effects and seeing them put on below, you know, all them, you know, how it's all put together, it kind demystified a lot of stuff for me. And so I really fell in love with horror movies. And then from there, you know, you got these heavy metal album covers that are, are really cool. And yeah, it was, um, like I was big into like, you know, you look at this, like, who is this band? You know, cannibal corpse, you know, with like a was, was classic, you know, yeah. Well, Tom definitely, I would say Tom, you did kind of enlighten me to how, like, metal and all that's like all that your, your experiments, or not experiment, but like, you've introduced

me to so much metal that I have listened to and started to understand, like, this is not that different than REM and the Smiths and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, in, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, in, The fact that it is such vulnerability, you know, there's such, you know, Matt. Is that how you get him back? Yes. You just ask him to unfreeze. Yes. Yes.

All right. Matt's frozen. Tom's still with us. Anything you want to, do you want to rip on him for a quick second time? Well, Matt, I think mid-salient point. Let's just say he got frozen mid-salien point. Matt always said that like, like music has always either. about love, anger, or, like, one other thing, you know,

it's like either it's just like, there's like three versions of songs, like love, anger, or about the music itself, you know? Yeah. And that's true. And it kind of's true with like any type of music, you know? Are you back? Yeah, I lasted. How long ago did I?

About 10 seconds. Right when you said Christmas tree farm, we haven't heard of words. When you boof the gorilla, that's when you cut out. Yeah, right. Three throws. It was about the vulnerability of those artists. Yeah, just the expression of abstract pain. And so when I listen to metal now, I hear it differently.

It's not macho at all. It's the opposite. It's kind of showing all the fear and anxiety and just in releasing it all. And so it made me kind of appreciate the beauty and emotional catharsis that metal is. somebody posted something on social media that really made me laugh about like because like I remember I was growing up and I love Dockin

and my friend was like you know they're not that hardcore and I was of course they're hardcore tell me one reason where they're not hardcore he goes at some point they sat in a room and they wrote a song it's just so funny like we only see him

but then he goes and you're like oh right like you have to remember at some point they're all like literally like you know and it's in that I think when you ground yourself in that you're like oh yeah it's all the same And it's just different styles. Yeah.

No, well, Dockin had a great song in Nightmarendall Street Part 4, which I had, when Matt used to work at the video store, at Premiere Video, he brought home a all bunch of movie posters for me, and that was one of them. Yeah. And that's how I kind of learned about Dockin. I worked at a video store, and again, so pre-blockbuster as well, Matt, and it was one of the great perks was bringing home posters. Oh, yeah. And the cutout boards. Yeah, I remember I had so many great posters. Amazon Women on the Moon, which is my favorite posters. Yep. Yeah, I gave you so many posters, Tom. Yeah, Nightmare Honest Street Part 4, you had that, you had Assault of the Killer Bimboes that I had up on the, but also, like, I had a huge poster of, I think a movie called White Sands with, like, with, I think I had like Willem Defoe and somebody else.

And, like, I still have never seen it, never saw it then, but it was, it was bigger than the other ones, and it was just on my, it was like on my wall, you know, I could tell you who the editor of the White Sands was, but, uh, yeah. Were your, were your grandparents close by? Would you go visit them? Were they part of your lives? Yeah, my, my dad's mom and dad, uh, lived actually a bike ride away and, uh, and, and also right by where we went to school. So we often, would go right to their place after school. And, yeah, and we, yeah, there was always a lot of, in my mom's side of the family, yeah, everybody was on the west side, both sides of the family, you know, a lot of Irish Catholics and German Catholics and stuff. But so, yeah, there were, there was a lot of family, big family get-togethers.

And both my mom and dad both have. of four brothers and sisters each. So there's eight sets of cousins, you know, and all over the place. So it's this kind of a sprawling west side clan, for sure. That's great. And do you guys, are your parents still in the Cincinnati area?

No, my sister lives in Seattle and my parents moved out of Cincinnati, how many years ago, Tom, six, seven, eight. I think it was right when, It was like 2016 or something. Yeah, it was right around that time. Now they live, they live like a bike ride for my sister and my nieces. So, yeah, there's kind of, we do kind of, whatever, move around together.

That's really, together. Yeah. Yeah. It's, we're my, we see my wife's parents, my in-laws all the time. And we're very close to them. But not to bring it back. Are they in the city? They're the nearest in the city, which is great.

It's just actually set of hands. But my mother-in-in-law is really close with West Craven's widow. And, you know, another guy from the area. She's the most wonderful person. It's just so funny, again, to go back to, like, how everything's, you know, you never judge a person's character on their work. Like, every time I love talking to her about him, she's just like, he was the sweetest man. He was.

Of course, of course he was. But it's so funny, like, because, again, you grow up and you just like, West Craven Master of horror and like the stories about him as a person are just so lovely yeah yeah

yeah he grew up very religious very religious yeah oh you know I don't know I'm not gonna teach you anything about

West Craven hey posh can I do something you're gonna be really mad about sure all right Josh is a real dickhead when I mentioned SNL

but I just want to say the national when you guys did two shows after I left I was there for 12 and a half years and I missed you guys by two shows.

And I was acutely aware of that. I just wanted to be known. And that's all I'm going to say about it, Josh. We did meet Taylor Swift that night for the first time. Oh, funny. So that was the... Yeah, that was... Oh, wow. That was kind of the first time we met her.

Because she was just there to see the show? She was hanging out. Yeah. What a thing. Because Lena Dunham was the... Yeah. We're going to jump right into the speed round because we were getting to to SNLA.

And I told you, Josh hates it. All right. You gentlemen can pick one of these. Is your ideal vacation relaxing, adventurous, or educational? Relaxing. Yeah, relaxing. What is your favorite means of transportation? Car.

Car. If you can take a vacation with any family, alive or dead, real or fictional, other than your own family, what family would you like to take a vacation with? The Muppets. Great. I was going to say the Royal Tenen Bounds. Excellent. Two good answers. This one's going to be, might be tough because you guys are related.

So we'll see how this shakes out. If you had to be stranded on a desert island with one member of your family, who would it be? Tom. For sure. Really cornered you, Tom. Sure, yeah. I mean, or mom, but I'm going to say Rachel, because she's going to be not. Please, that no one picked her.

She'd be the only one who'd survive, I think. And you guys are from, do you consider yourselves from Cincinnati? Yeah. Would you recommend Cincinnati as a vacation destination? I would. Yeah, it's kind of beautiful. I have a lot of friends. Yeah, it's, you know, I think it's a Midwest city that has, I would say, maybe turned around a little bit and kind of came up at the time.

and a lot of young people that I think I would be friends with and kind of agree the downtown area and the kind of general greater Cincinnati area has really been revitalized and kind of embraced and loved

and the thing I always say about Cincinnati is that for many years I don't know downtown they didn't tear any buildings down so it's a really old city that they've kind of revitalized and it's got some beautiful architecture and it's great

I mean, those Midwest cities that were smart enough to keep those buildings are incredible to go to because of that reason. And Seth has our final questions. Have either of you been to the Grand Canyon? Yes. And was it worth it?

Well, I've been there. I remember the time. I think it was before Tom was born. We did a whole trip from Cincinnati all the way out to San Francisco. We stopped there. And we stopped at the St. Louis Arch. We stopped all these places.

Grand Teton's. and all that kind of stuff but I hardly remember any of those things I just remember the weird little things in the you know there was a car

there was an accident on the way to Grand Canyon where a truck trucker had been killed by all this the weight of the thing behind him like it'd come through the cab and crushed him and and my dad's driving and my

Rachel my sister and I are sleeping in the back and he wakes us up and he said guy get up kids, there's a dead guy, there's a dead guy, you know, and we wake up and then we look out the window and we see this horrific scene. Oh, no. I remember that was on our way of the Grand Canyon, and I think we went back to sleep, but it's all I kind of remember from that day.

I barely remember the Grand Canyon at all. Even like the majesty of the Grand Canyon cannot compete with the dead guy in the same. No, all it was the dead guy in the truck. Yeah. But, yeah. There you go. All right. So lovely talking.

it on that beautiful note. Yeah, really. Thanks for putting a bow on it. Thanks so much, guys. Really great talking about. Thank you, guys. Yeah, thank you, guys. This has been really great.

farm In summer you'd be out there pruning getting scratched on your legs and your arms and dad was protecting his garden when he shotgun

blasted a skunk the critter pretty much exploded and then the whole neighborhood stunk Mac got free posters for working Printed VHS-3 DVD And the cinema

And do lots of laughing Use your popcorn to cover your peep even though Tom was much younger he still wanted to be his own boy so we listened to radio nettle and he never diminished their joy even when someone left the candle and then they went out on the town

When they came home hours later Turns out that the house had burned down I'm going to be able to be. I'm going to be able to be. You know, I'm going to be able to be. On the quaint and cold boundary waters, with the skies growing dark overhead, Matt battled hard to get through the storm, while mom's sat there sipping some red. When you've been on the mini golf course, the whole race, the whole race,

you've been missing your butts and you have to mount the gorilla and you have to give it three thrusts yeah you have to give it three thrusts boofing and give it three thrusts yeah you're boofing and give it three thrusts Thank you.