Family Trips with the Meyers Brothers - PHIL KEOGHAN Putted a Golfball Across Scotland

Episode Date: December 12, 2023

Our most-traveled guest, Phil Keoghan, joins Seth and Josh to talk about growing up in the Caribbean, how Phil met his wife and the projects they’ve worked on together, his journey to becoming the host of Amazing Race and the places the show has taken him around the globe, his daughter still feeling like a Kiwi, and so much more! Airbnb.com Thanks again to Nissan for sponsoring this episode of Family Trips and for the reminder to find your more. Learn more at NissanUSA.com. Find your new favorite fits and get 15% off @marinelayer at https://www.marinelayer.com/TRIPS. #marinelayerpod Go to usbank.com/altitudego to learn more about how you can earn 20,000 bonus points, worth $200, if you spend $1,000 in the first 90 days of opening your account. Eat out or eat in, with the U.S. Bank Altitude® Go Visa Signature® Card. Limited time offer. The creditor and issuer of this card is U.S. Bank National Association, pursuant to a license from Visa U.S.A. Inc. Some restrictions may apply.

This episode is brought to you by Airbnb. Hi, Pashi. Hi, Sufi. This is very exciting. Phil Kogan, our guest today, might wrap his arms around the premise of the show better than anyone we've ever had. Yeah, I mean, such an interesting childhood. Yeah. And so much travel.

So much travel. A shocking amount of travel. A host of The Amazing Race on CBS, if you did not know. And not only does he have great stories about travel, he maybe might be the most inspirational when speaking about the value of travel. Yeah, and also promotes the idea that you don't need a lot of money to travel. But that traveling is good for relationships. It's good for the soul. Yeah, it's just good. It's good for how we see the people in the world around us. He's a very

special guy. And I want to get to that conversation. But first, this is the first time we're recording one of these intros after you and mom and dad were on the Thanksgiving show. Yeah. Of Late Night. Yeah. I kept saying it was the 10th year, and I believe it maybe was only the 9th year that you've been on. But still, nine times, and I'm not, no exaggeration, it was my favorite. Yeah, I mean, some reviews, you know,

from some friends of mine also said their favorite. They think that was the best. And it was, it was great. You know, Mom always talks about how she's very nervous for it to start. And you can feel her nerves. Like I can feel her nerves because I'm holding her hand when we walk out. But man, it does not show. Yeah. She's real smooth on camera. Yeah. And just so funny. Like so such

funny takes. Yeah. Her comedy now is almost entirely born of the fact that she's over dad. entirely born of the fact that she's over dad. Yeah. It's an audible eye roll. Yeah. Yeah. And I want to stress that they're very happy together. They could not live without one another. But I do think she's found a real comedy lane is to talk about how he's just a real pain. Yeah. I'll also say I spoke to them each individually on the phone yesterday, which is so much better than talking to them together. Yeah. Because they might tell the same story, but they have a different take on it. If one of them sort of wants to interject, then it cuts the other one off. And I talked to each of them for maybe a half hour each, which is miles longer than I would speak to them if they were together on the phone. I would rather watch a family of lions tear apart a zebra carcass than watch mom and dad

try to tell the same story. Also, there was a while in the pandemic where we were doing Zoom a lot with them or FaceTime. It just sort of seemed like that would be a better connection. And mom never seemed to clock that when she would roll her eyes at dad on FaceTime or Zoom that he would also be seeing her in the camera that was being held right in front of them. Yeah.

At this point, her eye rolling is like a knee reflex. Yeah. She can't help it. She's just sighing and eye rolling. It's second nature at this point. Yeah. Also, we typically, classically, we've always called on Sundays. We've always spoken to our parents on Sundays.

And during football season, it's typically after the Steeler game. So we can discuss the Steeler game. But mom is an eternal optimist and dad is a terrible pessimist. So when you want to talk Steelers with either of them, having them together just doesn't work. And so great catch up on both fronts. And I got to hear dad be mad about another win. Yep. Can't even see the good in a win. That's where he's at.

Again, I do think this is because the prime of dad's life was the Steelers were winning Super Bowls almost every year. And so he has a very high standard for what he expects from his hometown football team. Yeah. I also, it was your idea. And then we had some writers on our show chip in. But the highlight of the Thanksgiving show for me was a written segment called Ya Brined. And if our listeners just go on YouTube, just search for Ya Brined,

and I just want to say my parents and Josh were impeccably great. It was a really fun sketch. It was great for me. It felt like the way I used to feel like when I was the anchor on Weekend Update, where I just got to sit there and watch somebody just swish threes while I was right off camera. It was a delight. Yeah, it was great. I mean, not great that you sort of weren't in it, but that it was something that, you know, as it was written, took you by surprise, but that you didn't burn anyone through the whole thing. If anyone was burned, it was you.

And it was sort of a sketch that was written for us. And you were in the frame of it. Yeah, it was really fun. And yeah, much, much appreciation to Alex Bays, Seth Reese. Helped out. It was really fun. And we had some nice meals when you were here. And then I took mom and dad. They came with me for Thanksgiving. I should also know one of the nice things about this year's show. There was a lot of news. Dad retired. You got engaged. It was fun to talk about these things. For fans of the Meyers Cinematic Universe, there was a lot of plot twists. You got to go off to Shelburne Falls for Thanksgiving. Correct.

With your soon-to-be in-laws. How was your Thanksgiving? It was great. We also, we started with the couple that started the theater in Amsterdam. We worked for Boom Chicago. Andrew and Saskia were in New York and we had a brunch in the West Village that was fantastic, beautiful restaurant, the Boucherie West, I believe.

So we did that and everyone sort of got their Thanksgiving fixings. And then we drove up, we rented a car and went to Shelburne Falls the Friday after Thanksgiving. They have an event called Moonlight Magic. I think it was at one point it was called Moonlight Madness, and then they changed it to Moonlight Magic, which was a terrible move because everyone stumbles when they say it. No one knows exactly what it is. What it's called, right. But it is so charming, and it feels like a Hallmark movie.

It does feel like maybe initially they just should have started with Moonlight Magic because Shelburne Falls does not strike me as a place where madness reigns. No. No, no, no. Yeah. But yeah, it was great. The old Lampson knife factory on the river was opened up. A lot of artists have cool spots. Now I take it back.

There's an old knife factory? It's an old knife factory. Lampson, I believe the knives aren't made there anymore, but they still have a little shop. We have a couple Lampson knives at home. Oh, that's great. Yeah. I had mom and dad with me.

It went very well. I should say the other thing about our Thanksgiving show, we film it on Wednesday. So that is the only day of the year where late night double tapes. We do a show at four and then we do the family show at 630. And I think nothing takes it out of me more than that week where we do four shows in three days. And the final one is just that extra burden.

It's not that I don't think you guys are all going to do great, it is just a family in the workplace you know and i want it to go well and so i was so tired on thanksgiving because i feel as though it just the burden finally became too much to bear yeah and we were over at my in-laws i want to thank tom and joanne for hosting us once again but i did that thing where i just walked into a room that no one was in and fell asleep on a couch for 20 minutes before Axel, the five-year-old agent of chaos, found me. But it was the deepest. It was the highlight of my Thanksgiving was a very deep,

I cannot bear being awake anymore, 20-minute nap on the couch. Yeah. I mean, back when you were kind of scumbag in his 30s, you'd drink the odd Red Bull. Do you do that anymore? Do you ever be like, I need to power up and power through? You know my wife to be a woman who takes what you put in your body very seriously. Mm-hmm. So Red Bull is very much on the do not imbibe list. Gotcha. With that said,

and I say this with the confidence of knowing she doesn't listen to our podcast, I'll drink a Red Bull at work. Okay. I will every now and then when push comes to shove, drink a Red Bull at work. I keep one in the fridge, or I kept one in the fridge at all times. The problem then is Mackenzie, my fiance, would drink it instantly because she works so hard and she's so tired that if I leave it there for her, she will inevitably just keep sucking them down. I also realized, and shame on me for needing three kids to realize this, because I would have told you that my favorite holiday has always been Thanksgiving. Favorite holiday has always been Thanksgiving.

I love it so much. And I realize the reason I loved it is I was the kid. And especially in my dirtbag 30s. What did you call it? Not dirtbag. What did you? Scumbag. Scumbag. Yeah, I would have said dirtbag.

But in my dirtbag 30s, that was the dream. I would come home, a man unencumbered by child or spouse, and I would just collapse on a couch, watch football, eat food, drink wine, go out, see old friends at local bars. That was my life, and it was great. And you realize Thanksgiving just gets so much more onerous when you are feeding kids mashed potatoes. It just becomes so much less fun. And then there's no let's drink late in the night

because it's not like your kids give you a Friday off. Right. Yeah, they're excited because it's also Black Friday, and those kids love deals. They love deals. They love online deals. Well, that was our quick Thanksgiving recap. Now,

we want you to listen to a person I never met before. You know, we have had very few of those on the podcast, but this is the first conversation I ever had with Phil. First conversation you ever had with Phil. He is a delight, and before you listen to him, why not let your ears enjoy the dulcet tones

of Jeff Tweedy. Hey, hey. Hey, good morning. Good morning. How are you? I'm good. I'm LA. You guys are in New York and LA? I'm LA. You're LA. Okay, so you're also up early. Okay. Yeah.

So disappointed, though. I got to be honest, Phil, because you could be anywhere, literally anywhere in the world. I'm slightly disappointed that we didn't get you in somewhere more exotic. Well, you would have had me in Paris about 36 hours ago, but I just made my way back. I was there for the very disappointing finish of the Rugby World Cup final, which you guys probably have no idea was even happening, but it was a big deal in certain parts of the world. Yeah. I will assume then that you are a New Zealand rugby fan. Huge, huge. And rugby is like, it's hard to describe how big rugby is in New Zealand, but it's up there with the best religions. You know, the one thing I'll say,

obviously, I think as just a sports fan, I am familiar with, I don't want to even guess the name of the dance that the Kiwi- The haka. The haka. There you go, There you go. There you go.

Very good, Josh. So I'm familiar with that. I also am aware that I can't even think of a second New Zealand sport. I guess you've qualified for maybe a soccer world cup? Wow. This is really starting in an interesting place. So you have heard of Sedman Hillary, the first man on top of Everest? Of course.

Kerry Takanoa. He was up there top of Everest? Of course. Yeah. Kerry Takanoa. He was up there with Tenzing Norgay. Wow. Look at you. Out there, your brother. But thank you for the acknowledgement. And yes, he was up there.

And the only photograph was taken by Sedman Hillary. So the only photograph we have of that amazing summit climb, I believe it was Christmas Day, is of Tenzing Norgay, who was a Sherpa who went up there with him. After the English had given it a go and failed a few times, they finally gave the Kiwi and the Sherpa a chance to go. And then you would have heard of Kerry Takanawa, the beautiful soprano singer. Yeah. So we punch above our weight. I wasn't, I feel like you heard me incorrectly. I was just saying, I know rugby is the big deal there because I wasn't. I feel like you heard me incorrectly. I was just saying I know rugby is the big deal there because I can't think of other. I've never heard a New Zealander talk about another

sport with any passion other than rugby. Okay. Well, that's true. But cricket is up there. Okay. Gotcha. And cricket is the second biggest sport in the world after soccer. So it's in the billions. And we play a mean game of cricket. We've got an amazing cricket team. You said it was a disappointing end to the Rugby World Cup. Did New Zealand lose in the finals? Yeah. So we lost 11 to 12 to South Africa. We're the only two teams that have ever won the World Cup three times. And so whoever won this was going to get the unprecedented record.

And there's a lot of controversy about some of the decisions that were made. And our captain got sent off with a red card about 18 minutes into the game. So we played 14 against 15 for pretty much most of the match. I'm not making excuses, am I? But anyway. Did you play growing up at all? I did. I actually grew up in the Caribbean. So I grew up with cricket. That was my primary sport from the age of around six to when I went back to New Zealand for high school. And then I played rugby when I got there.

But in the West Indies, in the 80s, cricket was a religion there. People like Viv Richards, who were Sir Vivian Richards, I should say. But the West Indian cricket team of the 80s were unbeatable. They were just unbelievable. We worshiped them. There were reggae, calypso songs written about them, street names, streets named after them. When you learned how to play cricket in the West Indies, when you brought it back to New Zealand, were you advanced? Were you better than most of your Kiwi friends? Well, it's funny you should say that because I was just talking to a friend of mine who was in the same team as me. His name is Andrew Lester. So he hears that this kid is

coming from the West Indies. And in those days, there was a guy called Joe Garner. He was seven foot four and a bowler, the equivalent of a pitcher in baseball, and massive, powerful, very, very fast pitcher slash bowler. My friend, I didn't know he was going to become my friend, but he's like, oh my God, there's this guy coming from the West Indies. We're going to have an amazing attack bowler. And I turn up, I was four foot 11 and about 78 pounds. He was made to, and I was white and disappointed because he's thinking, I'm West Indian. And I sounded like a West Indian, but I didn't look anything like Joel Garner physically and certainly couldn't bowl like him. Yeah. Maybe if there were two of you

stacked on top of each other. Yes. It is very funny to show up as a kid who has sort of an exotic backstory and look exactly like everybody who's already there. I get their disappointment. Yeah. They were majorly disappointed, but the weird thing was I had like the strongest West Indian accent. So I looked exactly like everybody else, but my whole programming and all my references, they were all completely different. So I was, it was this weird situation where I looked like everybody, but I couldn't have been more different. It's like I came from another planet. I didn't wear shoes most of the time. I cycled all over the island. I wanted to be local. And then I turned up to this really strict Scottish school where the prefects are wearing kilts and everybody's playing rugby. And I had no idea about any of this world.

It was like I was a real fish out of water. Now, based on that, before you became well-known and people knew you, you know, were from New Zealand, could anybody place you with your accent? Because it is sort of a melange of so many different places. No, I've sort of dealt with that all my life because I lived in Canada for three years. My dad was lecturing at Guelph and McGill for a few years when I was super young. And I lived in Australia for three years. My dad was lecturing at Guelph and McGill for a few years when I was super young. And I lived in Australia for a bit. And then my dad got posted at Columbia and we lived in Trinidad for a little bit. And I came to America when I was around 23 or four and I've lived everywhere. So no, my whole life I've just been like, where the hell are you

from? Like, what the hell's wrong with your accent? They're like, I'd say West Indies, but you're not good enough at cricket. Yeah. Yeah. I really wasn't. But they say that if your accent changes before the age of 12, then for the rest of your life, you become a chameleon. You just sort of adapt to what you hear. And so I feel like that's happened to me. When I go home to New Zealand for a bit, I get a lot of crap about my accent. And then after a while, I start to sound like a little Kiwi and my accent will get twisted up a wee bit. So I don't really belong anywhere, maybe like mid Pacific or something and some remote Island. I don't know. Our father's from Pittsburgh. And every time he gets back to Pittsburgh, he slips into that.

I mean that wonderful, terrible accent that is Pittsburgh, but I love Pittsburgh. And every time he gets back to Pittsburgh, he slips into that. I mean, that wonderful, terrible accent that is Pittsburgh, but I love Pittsburgh. I just think it's so, uh, what a great city. I've been there a number of times when I rode across America, I went through Pittsburgh and I got the warmest welcome from everybody there. And it has this ruggedness and this rawness to it that I really identify with. And I think it's just because I come from working class people. So I just appreciate, I mean, how hard is it to get up in Pittsburgh and go to work, literally go to work in the winter? I mean, there's a bunch of badasses there, really. Yeah. It's also geographically beautiful,

which I think people don't quite understand. Like there's so many hills and bridges and, and if you like sort of that old sort of brutalist architecture, you've got that going for it as well. I think it's one of the more interesting cities in America because a lot of, there's a lot of cities that sort of look the same. And that's one of the things you notice about going to Europe is where Paris, or if you, if you travel down to Rome and you look at the distinctive aspects of all of the European cities, I love that Chicago, Pittsburgh, New York, that we do have some distinctive cities and Pittsburgh's definitely one of those.

Yeah, for sure. You rode your bike across America and there are so many things you have done, Phil, that I have no interest in. I know. And which begs the question, why am I here? Well, I'm thrilled to have you here. And I feel like Josh, I think Josh is going to make a, basically ask for your bucket list and just photocopy it. So one of us is down for pretty much all of it. Seth's an indoor kid.

Yeah. By the way, I got to say, I really enjoyed your interview with Howard. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I thought it was really good. I was jet lagged having just flown back and I couldn't sleep. That's really the only reason I listened to it. No, I love his interviews and I thought you guys were great together. It was really, really good. But when you have a show on at 1237 at night, pretty much your audience, wherever you are, are people who can't sleep. That was an interesting part of the conversation, too. I just think some of the things you said about that and also just how the world has changed so much with how we get our content. And the fact that you are on at 1230 really doesn't matter because good content will live somewhere else at some other time. And whether you're jet-lagged at

three o'clock in the morning, you'll find it. And that's the cool thing about the technology. So yeah, it was a good interview. It's interesting. I think that, you know, the one thing we still have to sort of watch when it happens is sports. And you and obviously the whole team over at Amazing Race have really figured something out as well, which is a reality show that both feels like family and also has that sportish competition element to it. Yeah. Did you guys know what you were onto at the very beginning with, oh, look at all these things we're bringing together here?

Well, what I love about the original idea was just how audacious it was. It was, you know, this is back in around 2000 when this was being discussed. And there were a few other people wanting to produce a show like this. But Bertram, who's the executive producer, had done a lot of work overseas. And at that point, I had worked in over 60 countries, and there was a team of people that were all really experienced at working overseas. But that said, we were still not sure that something like this could work and would work. And the world was much bigger than,

than it is now. We weren't as connected. Everything was very linear. We would be in remote places where we couldn't have phone connections and it was just such a different world. And no, the answer is we, we had no idea. We just didn't know. And then we launched on September the 8th. And then of course, 9-11 happened. It almost derailed the whole idea of watching people race around the world right out of the gate. So the fact that we were able to come back and that people had a renewed interest in traveling around the world, I think says a lot about the team and the fact that we are still fascinated with the idea of packing up a bag and just going and just seeing what happens. Yeah. I mean, I think it also sort of sustained because

people have a natural sort of inclination to want to see that if not to do it. I think everyone, there's something in everyone that wants to do it, that wants to go to all these places and it's just not feasible. So to be able to watch all these people, it's just like, is incredible. Also, I'll just say I'm friends with Justin Canoe and Zev Glassenberg. Yeah. Yep. They're buddies of mine. And it was so delightful to like, I mean, I've hung out with those guys. I've seen them. These were contestants on two seasons of the show. And it was just great to see them sort of just the two of them hanging out as someone who knows them and is friendly with

them to sort of see them just as a team when it's just the two of them and have that look in at their lives. Yeah, it was great. Yeah. The fish out of water thing is huge on Amazing Race. And I love that. And I love my favorite contestants are the ones that have never had a passport, never left their state. Yeah. Like, you know, going back to David and Mary, who were coal miners from Kentucky, going back into season 10. And just to see them like wide-eyed being in some foreign place, which might as well be another planet to them. It's like they've never seen anything like this in their life. And to be able to witness that up close, you're absolutely right. There's this vicarious nature to being able to watch a show like Amazing Race. And then also just that we've been able to say to people, hey, there's a lot to see in the

world. There's a lot of really cool things to do. And you don't have to be as scared as the media wants you to be. And I've always said that for years, you know, when so many Americans saw the rest of the world, it was when something was going wrong, there was a flood, there was political unrest, there was something terrible happening. And so people's perception of the whole world was, why the hell would I leave America and go somewhere where all this crazy stuff is happening? And that's what they were being bombarded with, still bombarded with constantly, because if it bleeds, it leads. It's like, you don't do the story about David and Mary, the Kentucky coal miners going around the world and having a great time with local people. It's

more, hey, let me tell you something that's gone wrong. And so I love that we've been able to at least share with people that as safe as America is, it's not the safest country in the world. It's not even in the top 10 and that there are lots of safe places to travel around the world and it's okay to get on a plane and go to some places. It doesn't mean that you can't get an ass whooping somewhere, but you could find that in America too. You sure can. Josh and I did one episode of a travel show once called The Getaway, where it was just in one city. And Josh and I used to live and work in Amsterdam. So we did three days.

I think it was three days of shooting. Does that sound right? That feels right, yeah. It was the most exhausting three days of my life. Yeah. And I think that probably there are some people who don't understand what it takes to make shows like yours who say, oh my God, Phil, you must have, you get to travel the world. You must get

to see so much. But I can't even imagine what your day-to-day is like and how little you get to actually enjoy the places you're at. Well, you have to enjoy the experience, I think. And you're absolutely right. I mean, I think the audience is becoming more aware now just because more and more people are making content. More and more people are becoming aware of how hard it is to actually create content. Um, but you know, we typically shoot 12 shows in 21 days, which is really unheard of. And we had a season where we shot, uh, where we filmed, we traveled 75,000 miles in season five. And that's, uh, like going around the equator three times. Cause roughly once around the equator is 25,000 miles, something like that, which is why you put a geosynchronous, uh,

satellite that distance above the earth. That's how you get the Clark ring. But anyway, um, it's a long, long damn way. So you're getting on and off planes. And the other thing that people, because they have this perception, you're absolutely right. Like I'm sitting around a pool with a pina colada, which by the way, it's not really my thing, but you know, what the hell? Not that I wouldn't try it, but no, I mean, we're literally like running from one destination to another. I have to go everywhere they go, but I've got to try to stay slightly ahead of them. And that can get very difficult when flights get delayed and our planes made to take off 30 minutes before the contestant team flight. And then I don't have that lead anymore because the bolts have fallen off the wheel and we get stuck for two hours and then the teams get

ahead of me. I mean, it's, yeah, it's a lot different than people perceive it. But listen, I also see that as crazy as all the travel is, it's so exciting to be a part of this. We get absolutely exhausted, but it's also incredibly rewarding. Yeah, it really is like a once in a lifetime opportunity every time we go out. And you know, we've shot 36 seasons now. I just can't imagine doing another show. Like if I was stuck in a studio for 36 seasons, I'd have to find ways of staying stimulated. You know, where I am is never the same. And I really love that aspect of it. It's always so different everywhere we go. Do you ever go to places that you don't have really a chance to truly experience it and sort

of tap it in your head of like, oh, I want to come back here and spend some time and then have you actually done that? Or is it? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. And as I mentioned, I was lucky enough to start traveling with my parents at three when you had to wear a suit and polish your shoes before you got on the flight. Now people get on with their stinky flip-flops. Very little is polished on air travel these days. And way too much arm hair and arm odor on flights these days. You're right. You know what?

People really have over-focused on the foot, but arms aren't doing great either these days. You know what it is? The chairs have gotten more narrow. And I mean, I almost want to hand them some kind of trimmer or something because the hair does kind of, it sticks out. Even when they've got their arms down, there's a lot of hair coming out. And it's too much sometimes.

Yeah, I love the old days when we actually used to wear at least something that covered up the body. Yeah, fair. We're seeing too much on these flights, just going to say. But yeah, I love the fact that we get to do what we do. And we work with a great group of people, and the attrition rate is very high. There's not a lot of people that were there from way back in of when it's a home game or when it's a travel. So wait, I do want to go back. So when you're little, you travel, you know, for your parents' work and you're in places like the Caribbean.

Was that the family trip for you guys? Or did you also travel as a unit and go different places? I really have to give my parents credit for always wanting to explore and giving me or making me curious about the world and people. One of the more memorable trips I have as a young kid was my parents bought a 1970 Westfail, your Volkswagen with the pop-up roof. And my sister is a little bit younger than me would sleep up front. There was a little bed that went up over the two front seats, and then the roof would pop up. And I slept there, and my parents

in the double bed. And my dad, being a scientist and being super curious and always testing us with geological knowledge, with whatever we were looking at, said, we're going to try to visit every national park in North America. And we did a 12,000 mile trip across North America, camping, visiting people all over the country, Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, and all the small parks in between. And to this day, it's so etched in my memory. It's given me that wonderlust. And I credit them for that. They were always very, very good at talking to anybody and everything was possible. And that curiosity that I have for people, you know, is extended into my work.

I just find people so fascinating. And I just love that they had this ability to talk to local farmers, but they could also mix with politicians. And that was a gift that they gave my sister and I that I will forever be grateful for. Hey, we're going to take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors. This episode of Family Trips is brought to you by Nissan. Posh, these days too many people have to settle for the next best thing, especially when it comes to choosing a car. Yeah, but at Nissan, there's a vehicle type for everyone,

for every driver who wants more. Whether you want more adventure, more electric, more action, more guts, or more turbocharged excitement, Nissan is here to make sure you get it. Because Nissan is all about giving people a whole spectrum of thrills to choose from with a diverse lineup of vehicles. Sports cars to sedans to EVs, pickups, crossovers. With Nissan's diverse lineup, anyone can find something to help them reach their more. What are you looking for more of, Josh?

I like a nice ride. I like a nice sound system. I like something that's, yeah, that's comfortable. You like to have room to load up a bunch of gear, go somewhere, do an adventure. I do. I'm never happier than when I have sort of a full car, a roof rack on my car. Makes me happy. And all I need is a cup holder for an iced coffee. And Nissan can provide you with both of those things. So thanks again to Nissan for sponsoring this episode of Family Trips and for the reminder to find your more. Learn more at NissanUSA.com. We are supported by Airbnb. Hey, Pashi. Yes, Ufi. We've been coming to Pittsburgh

for about 10 years with mom and dad. This is our first year staying in an Airbnb, and the differences are remarkable. It's great. It just feels like we're in a house that's ours. You just went and made a couple of cocktails for mom and dad? Yeah, I didn't have to pay $22 for each of them. And look, we've been bringing cocktails to them since we were, what, four and six? As soon as we could carry a glass without spelling. There you go.

So that's been lovely. It's been very cozy. We all have our own bedrooms, and yet we're close enough to hear Dad's phone go off. Yeah. We're also just like right in a neighborhood that meant so much to Dad growing up. We're steps away from a happening little spot. If you lived here, you would be delighted to live here.

And the other thing is everybody who lives here can hear dad's phone. So thank you to Airbnb. We're having a very special time in Pittsburgh. It's so funny. I was wondering, are they proud of you for your success? And based on the childhood they gave you, I feel like if you hadn't been the host of Amazing Grace, they would be deeply disappointed. Like after all the tools we gave you, there's one job we built you for. Well, you know, there was a little disappointment early on because my grandparents, working class people, never got a chance to go to college. And my grandfather got a scholarship. He was the brightest kid in his class to go to a Catholic school in the bigger city down in the South Island of New Zealand. And he wasn't given a choice, or maybe he didn't want to go. He was too scared. I don't know,

but he ended up going to work at 14 and one of the brightest people that I have ever met in my life and extremely well-read. And then my parents both have the equivalent of doctorates. So the idea with this, you know, I'm the oldest son. I'm going to, of course, I'm going to go to college. I'm going to become a doctor, a lawyer or something. And then they say, what do you want to do? And I go, I want to work in television. And I just have to say, it didn't really go down that well. And I went straight out of high school because there was no degree at college to be like

in broadcasting or anything. And the only way into TV was you had to literally start making coffee, dragging cables, sweeping floors. And that's what I did. And so the idea that I didn't go to university straight out of high school, it didn't go down well. So my parents are like, okay, you want to do that? That's fine. But you're financially on your own. We're not supporting this madness.'re not supporting this madness. And, um, I literally made coffee the first time, first day at work. I was at a little television studio in Christchurch. I sweat floors and I dragged cables along the sidelines of sports matches behind the camera operators. I started from the lowest level. And, uh, I think in later years, they realized that maybe it was all right. But, um, and I did go to university for a little while just to show them that I could get A's. Hey, look, yeah, here's some A's, but can I just

carry on with this TV thing? I really like it. It turns out, yeah, you're like, look, I don't know if I need to read all this literature to pull these cables. I feel like it might be instinctive. I will say our parents who are probably listening, we did the opposite. We made them pay for our college. Oh, look at you. And then we decided we wanted to go into television. So you did it. What you did was far more decent. Well, my brother came along after me. And by the time he came through, there was a degree that you, a broadcasting degree that you could get at university. So he went that path, you know, he got that degree, you know, mine was literally experience on the job. And I really wanted to be a cinematographer. And I cut

a three-year apprenticeship down to about eight months. I started shooting. And so at 19, I was shooting news stories and hanging out of helicopters and covering news stories. And then I turned up to a terrible accident and realized that I didn't have the guts for shooting news stories. I needed to be in entertainment. I needed to be at a place with a camera where people wanted me there. And then I was at a Christmas party and having a few drinks and someone didn't turn up for an audition for a national show that had been on for 20 years with three hosts and they were looking for a new host. And anyway, long story short, I ended up getting offered the job. And so I ended up in front of the camera off the back of having a couple of beers at a Christmas party.

You got a job because someone didn't show up for an audition. So they were just like, well, you're here. Well, I always did improv theater, you know, all the way through school. I love improv and, you know, had done quite a bit of acting at school, mostly as a way to meet girls, but I did love, love, love improv. And so when they were doing directing training and camera operating training, they would need talent. They needed people in front of the camera to set up interviews and stuff. So for whatever reason, they kept throwing me in the chair to interview people.

And I guess this producer saw me and thought, maybe he could do this. I actually get paid for it. So that's how it happened. Is the move to the States, was that sort of brought about by, oh, you know, there might be limited opportunities or in a place like New Zealand or what brought it about? Well, back in those days, there was only three networks when I was 23, 24. And I had done a lot of live TV. I did a show called 345 Live, where I interviewed anybody who came to New Zealand. So if UB40 came, or Stallone, or Redhead Kingpin, or Skid Row, if anybody came to New Zealand.

By the way, I wish you'd kept giving examples. Each of those examples made me happier than the next. Oh, well, because it makes you feel younger than me, right? Well, I just was like, oh, I know exactly. I just loved where you were working. I know what year it was. It made me very delighted. Yeah. So it was a live show. I did it in 1990 and we did over 200 live shows every day at 345. All right. Actually, if you go on YouTube, you can see there's a clip there with a very stoned redhead kingpin live on the air. We didn't know what to do. I also interviewed Milli Vanilli literally just before they got busted. And the

dreadlock, Fabrice was twirling his dreadlock and it came detached from his head live on TV. And the manager, I'm watching the manager pointing at his head because it was an extension. The best is looking back at that time, the manager was like, in, you know, in hindsight, that was the least of our problems. Fake, fake dreadlocks. Those are the good old days. Did you not, I mean, I'm really taking attention here, but while you were interviewing Milli Vanilli, did you think, I don't know if these guys sang those songs? Well, I tell you what gave me pause was my mom being a music teacher, she had 80 students in Antigua. And in the Caribbean, we used to go to a music competition in a show that was on in Trinidad, where they would get all the talented young kids from around

the Caribbean to come and compete. I was trying to connect with Fabrice because he said he had grown up in Guadalupe. And so I knew the kids and I knew we knew everybody. And I started like naming people. And it was like, it was just like, there was nothing. And I remember thinking, but if you were in Guadalupe, you would know these music people. Like, so I didn't think anything more. I mean, I figured maybe he just didn't want to answer the question or whatever, but yeah, it was, it was very strange. And I, and I came to New York, I left New Zealand cause I was like, I want a new adventure. It was my wife and producing partner. And we just literally turned up to New York and I was so naive about how the industry worked. I managed to talk my way into Howard Stern's agency at Don Buckwold. And I was sitting with

the casting director and sorry, not the casting director, the agent who was, I think a little pissed off that some New Zealand guy kept hounding him on the phone. He's sort of like, what do you want? You know, I said, have you ever met a New Zealander? And he said, no. I said, well, just give me a few minutes. Anyway, while I was there, the phone rang and they were looking for a new host for MTV's Most Wanted. And he said, what are you doing right now? And I said, nothing. He said, go down to 1515 Broadway and go see Ted Demme. And I think of a woman by the name of Julie Mossberg, who was a casting director. Go see them and tell them that you're there to audition and that I sent you. So I was okay. So I go down and I sit down and they say, all right, we want you to

pretend that you're interviewing UB40. And I was about to say that I might have had a joint with UB40 and interviewed UB40 in New Zealand, but I stopped myself. I thought, no, nobody here in America knows what the hell 345 Live is. So I went, yeah, I could do that. So I literally had just interviewed them like a couple of months before. So it was all fresh I did the interview and I felt like it went really well and I go home and the agent calls me and he

goes oh and I had a a meeting with William Morris in two weeks I didn't know William Morris from Don Buckwood or any of the agency I knew nothing and and the guy says uh I got some great news I said oh I get the job he goes no you got a callback I said a callback he goes yeah what the hell got a callback. I said, a callback? He goes, yeah. I said, what the hell is a callback? In New Zealand, you don't have a callback. There's nobody to call. I mean, it's only a few people. So I said, oh, that's a good thing. He goes, no, no, no, that's really good. I said, well, what do I do next time? He goes, oh, no, no, just do the same thing. I was like, okay, welcome to America. So literally went back five times. They offered me the job. And then I have to go to human resources down the bottom in the basement of 1515 Broadway.

I turn up, there's this woman there and she goes, all right, hand me your papers. I hand over my New Zealand passport. She goes, you have a license? I go, no, you got a social security number? I said, no. She goes, do you have any documentation to work here in America? I went, no. She went, well, you're not working here. So I never got the job. Really? That was it? I never got the job. And if it hadn't been for Howard Stern, I think, and Robin, I think I would

have gone crazy because they were like my only friends and I would listen to them every day. But I literally did anything and everything to survive during those years where it was actually 18 months, spent all my money trying to get a lawyer to take my case before I finally got a job hosting on VH1 and then later on FX when FX launched in 94. I actually am a little happy you didn't get that first job because otherwise I feel any young actor listening to this story would think the key is just to be in the right place at the right time. You were at a party, someone doesn't show up, I'm in an office, the phone rings. So thank God there was a little bit of struggle or else people would be-

It took America to cut me down, Seth. Yes, exactly. You know, like just to give me a reality check. If someone asked me to pretend like I was interviewing UB40, I would really be like, so do you guys like red wine? And we'll go red, red wine. And is there really a rat in the kitchen? And what are we going to do?

Were there originally 40 of you in the group? And you know where that name comes from, right? I don't actually. No. If I'm not mistaken, it's the unemployment form in England. It's called the UB40. Oh, wow.

I like that. Yeah, yeah. I have to fact check that, but I think that's what it is. Let's just leave it up. Yeah, let's not. You know what? If you're listening, if you don't like that, go fact check it yourself. Yeah, go listen to another show. We don't fact check anything. We're doing enough for you. Hey, you mentioned your wife is your producing partner. And I'm wondering, did you guys first connect over your professional similarities, or did she also have your same sort of adventuresome wanderlust spirit?

Well, she says that she sort of picked me out of a catalog. We worked on a show together that really speaks to, I think, the New Zealand culture, a show that you really should watch. It's just a beautiful, beautiful show called That's Fairly Interesting. So in America, we watched the show, I don't know if you remember, it was called That's Incredible. Do you remember that show?

Yes, of course. Of course. We loved how Americans thought everything was incredible. And sometimes things weren't really that incredible, but Americans would still call it That's Incredible. It's American exceptionalism, Phil. Yeah, exactly. It's, oh my God, that's incredible. And so in New Zealand, you're not allowed to really say anything's incredible. Everything is, you've just got to, we have a thing called, Peter Jackson talks about it. It's called tall poppy syndrome. No poppy is allowed to grow up in the field higher than any other, otherwise it gets cut off in New Zealand. So everything has to be understated.

So if the three of us went to the pub and had a drink and you said, Hey Phil, what'd you do on the weekend? And I said, I got stoned with UB40, had a few beers and went to the moon. You guys in New Zealand would say, oh yeah, that's really interesting. You would not say that's incredible. You would just say that's really interesting. So there was a show called That's Really Interesting and they were looking for a new host. My wife was a researcher, my then girlfriend. Well, she was my girlfriend.

I hadn't even met her. Anyway, so she's looking for a new host for the show. In a catalog. Helping. And she flicks through and she goes, oh, he looks a little tidy. And from the South Island, you know, got a little bit of a farmer, South Island farmer-esque kind of look about him. So she put my name forward and then I went up and had an interview and we worked together. And then immediately we just connected, you know, she's very adventurous.

She's incredibly sporty, always up for anything. And we were friends before anything happened and we just liked each other. And it was only a couple of years after that, that we headed overseas together with packed up everything, sold everything and ended up with a couple of backpacks and headed overseas. That's fairly interesting. Sounds like a joke show that Flight of the Conchords would have been on. Well, it's funny you should say that because it is exactly, it's perfect for Flight of the Conchords, those guys. Yes, absolutely. It does. You would feel like in an episode of that show, they would say that was one of their credits and you would just think, well, that is the funniest made up name for a New Zealand show. And yet, of course, it's real. But it's so it's so perfect for for us, you know, and it's it just speaks so clearly to the

difference between American culture and New Zealand culture. It's great at that time. I remember I was talking to Peter Jackson. I did an interview with him and he was saying that when he was doing the three movies at once, you know, new line cold and asked him how it was going. And in typical New Zealand fashion, Peter goes, Oh yeah, no, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's gone pretty well. Pretty, pretty good. Pretty good. Pretty good. And they were like pushing him. Well, yeah, but I mean, are you excited about the footage and the thing? No, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we say, we say a lot of, yeah, no, we say, yeah, no, a lot. So we go, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We say a lot of yeah, no. We say yeah, no a lot. So we go, yeah, no, no, no, yeah, yeah, no. It's gone pretty well. So anyway, apparently New Line gets off the phone

like, holy crap, all hell is breaking loose down there in New Zealand with these hobbits. And Peter Jackson, he's losing control. He hasn't got the reins. And so they call Peter Jackson's agent and freak him out. And Peter Jackson's agent calls Peter and goes, Peter, what the fuck is going on? Like, what the hell's happening? Why are you not being honest with me about what's happening? I heard it's a disaster. What are you talking about?

He goes, I just spoke to the New Line guys. They said you're, yeah, knowing, and you don't really know, you know, you're not excited. And he goes, no, everything's fine, mate. Everything's good. It'll be fine. And it was. Yeah, sure was.

I just, I'm glad that he did not let the Hobbits act like New Zealanders because that film would have been a lot less interesting if they the whole time were like, oh yeah. Oh yeah, it's just a ring, you know. Yeah, you know.

It's like, I've seen a ring like it before. It's a gold one. I mean, yeah, yeah. So you have, you guys have one daughter and what were your, you know, again, obviously she grew up with these parents who loved to travel. What sort of trips did you go on as a family? Well, we made a rule that just because we were having a kid, we weren't going to let it interfere with our adventures. So we found all kinds of creative ways of taking our daughter out on trips.

A lot of parents would leave their kids behind like, oh, we got to find a babysitter. We'll leave them with the in-laws. No, with our daughter was like, no, you're going in the backpack. You're going with us. We'd go bike riding. She'd go on the back. I got a trailer. I remember here in Santa Monica, I was going up the hill. She was about seven. I had her in the back of the trailer and she was, you know, seven, not really that keen to get out on adventures. And so we used to draw fairy maps and we'd say that the fairies had left something at the tree up the top of, uh, towards Mulholland. And then my wife would race ahead and hide the treat. And then my daughter would be following this treasure map that we drew and, um, that would get her to the tree. And that was the turnaround point. And then we'd, she'd have to go searching for the, for the tree. I never thought about the fact that she could have accidentally put her hands next to a rattlesnake. But anyway, she found the treats. And then that kept her occupied until we got home. And they were healthy treats, just so you know.

Sure, sure. Oh, trust me. Yeah, yeah. All right. It might have been a couple of M&Ms. Now, I'm going up the hill once. And I'm struggling because she's seven now. You know, it's like getting ridiculous.

We probably should have stopped when she was five. And this guy slowly goes past me on the climb. And my daughter says to me, dad, what the hell's wrong with you? Were you some kind of wimp or something? You're going to let that guy go by you? And the guy laughed so hard. At which point you're like, you know, a lot of seven-year-olds ride their own bike. Actually, that's a good point. That's a good point. But the first time she was ever on the set was when she was three weeks old. We were with a sound recordist that I've been working with for over 30 years. And there's a photograph of him holding her when she was three weeks old. Well, now after we produced Tough as Nails, we're still working with the same sound recordist and

our daughter is working as a story producer and the two of them are working on the same show. So I'm destined to take them back to Queenstown where the shot was taken and have my daughter hold Jim, who's not that tall, in his arms and cradle him like a three-week-old. How often has she been back to New Zealand? I know that's obviously not an easy trip, but is that something you do every year as a family? Every year. Every year we meet in the Coromandel. We haven't missed since 89 together as a family. What's the Coromandel?

Coromandel. So do you know New Zealand at all? No, want to go, never been. And yeah, don't really. Listen. Haven't done my research. You guys go to New Zealand. I will, yeah, I will set you up.

New Zealand, it's one flight out of LA. And by the way, Seth, there's a direct flight now out of New York. You can fly, it's a long way, but you can take a direct flight literally from New York now. Occasionally you have to stop down to get a little extra fuel,

but that shouldn't worry you. But it's a direct flight. And out of LA, where we live here in Santa Monica, I see that bird, that silver bird going back and forth in New Zealand twice a day. And every time I see it, I'm like, I should be on that flight. And our daughter has been going since she was three weeks old. And every year, never missed. And she feels very much Kiwi. She was born in New York when we were living there, but, uh, she's definitely sees, you know, feels like a Kiwi as well. So what did you say though? Again, that is Coromandel a place. Yeah. So Coromandel is it's

the East of, of Oakland. Oakland is the biggest city. It's not the Capitol, but it's up the top of the North Island. New Zealand is two islands, a South Island and a North Island. It's about the length of Japan, UK. Yeah. It's this beautiful spot. It's about a hundred mile drive from Auckland airport and stunning. It's one of my favorite places in the world. I've been lucky enough to see 140 something countries and I still, and not just because I'm from New Zealand, but I still rate New Zealand as one of the most beautiful places for sure. There's a lot packed into a small area. Yeah.

I always eventually do this in these podcasts. I'm just going to dial it back to the Westphalia days when you're a kid and you're trying to hit all these national parks. What stands out to you from that other than sort of the overarching how great it was to see all these people? Do you have any specific memories from that trip of parks that stand out? I do. And I just found my dad's collection of Ektachrome photographs. And when I saw them, I just love Ektachrome. I just love photography. I could stare into beautiful photographs forever. I just love them, having them around me. And when I saw a bear started shaking the Volkswagen and could have clawed me out of my little pop-up room in the top of the camper and thinking I was protected up there with this thin bit of canvas. And this crazy thing happened. I always had this memory of hiking down

into the Grand Canyon with my dad. And I was about five, I guess. And I remember as we were descending, there was a rattlesnake on the path and there were two guys coming up from below. And we both stopped and we talked about what we were going to do. And we decided we were going to let the snake just move and then we would go. Anyway, my dad befriended these two guys. And I think there were a couple and we arranged that they would come over and have dinner with us that night. And I just distinctly remember meeting them. I remember the situation with the snake. And I remember how my parents were just, they're just so like, they're always reaching out to people and just

like, Hey, come and have coffee or come and have a dinner or whatever. And which I've tried to do in my own life. And I never forgot that. And then about four years ago, I got a, an email. It was from this guy. And he said, I'm just wondering, are you the same Philip that I met on the path in the grand Canyon back in 1972? And you were with your dad and we stopped with a rattlesnake. And I just, I couldn't believe it. It's like, we love watching you. He's still with the same guy. And it was just this great moment of connecting the past with the future and just how important it is to travel and how important it is to connect and to get out of the resorts and meet people on the trail like that who are also visitors, but also just immerse yourself. That's what I love about being on races. When we work with the local drivers, I'm like, where do you drink coffee in the morning? You know, when we're in

Bangkok, where do you like to go for a run? Where do you go for a drink? You know, it's just such a rewarding thing. And my wife is so good at it. We went for our honeymoon. We went to Peru. Yeah. And we stayed at very nice places and the concierges would send us to these very fancy restaurants. And at some point we had a guide who was taking us, you know, to Machu Picchu. And my wife just said, we need to go someplace where you would eat. Because it was at some point we realized we were going to leave and not actually know what Peruvian food tasted like. And I think about the rotisserie chicken place we went to all the time because it was so perfect and we would have walked right past it. And that is such a good instinct to ask locals because I'm sure they see us in our restaurants getting sort of a, you know, a scallop with foam on it and thinking, these dummies.

I mean, that's a great lesson from your wife. Seriously. I hear a lot of people, they say they go on holiday and they'll go to like, they'll go to a resort, but they never leave the resort. And I don't judge them. I mean, some people just need to get away and blob out on the beach. I mean, it's not my thing, but I also don't judge it, but I do feel like sometimes people say they've, Oh, where have you been? Oh, I've been to Mexico or I've been to Costa Rica. And then you find out that they never actually went to like, you're in Costa Rica with some of the best coffee in the world. And you didn't go to a local coffee shop to just be with locals and have that experience of having coffee.

You're missing out on something. You've traveled all that way. Otherwise, you might as well be in Florida somewhere in some resort. You know what I mean? It's like, why did you go there? And why are you going there? And like I said, I don't want to judge, but I do think that some people just don't know what they don't know about what they're missing out on. Hey, we're going to take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors. We are supported by Marine Layer. And I want to start with a very important date, Josh. Please. December 18th. If you order from Marine Layer by December 18th,

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Some restrictions may apply. You must be good at sort of turning down the volume on what you referenced earlier in this podcast. I'm sure when you go to a resort, there is a message that you hear from the resort of, yeah, you could, but it's not that safe. And you must be very good at having traveled the world and realizing that ultimately places are a lot safer than we're led to believe. Absolutely. And a lot of resorts are motivated to keep you there, right? They want you to rent the paddle boat and the windsurfer and the jet ski and stay

for the buffet and $50 all you can eat and all of that. I mean, I get it. It's a business, but you're absolutely right. I mentioned to you, I just got back from a trip. So my wife's best friend since they were two years old, she did her master's in the mafia down in Sicily and she was celebrating her birthday and invited us. And we, you know, my wife is spontaneous. She's like, let's go. So we just went. And then a friend of ours lives in the Pyrenees and right on the border, you know, with Spain and France and where I had bite, when I biked around France, I went right through the Pyrenees and wanted to go back. So we went there and then my, then we went to MIPCOM because that's where the television festival is. And then I have a cousin who lives in Geneva and we just,

we just kept following these. And because of the ability to be able to work from anywhere, we ended up in Paris, rented a place near Victor Hugo, which is near the Arc de Triomphe. And we just like, let's just live like locals for a week. And we'll work during the day. We'll go out for walks. We'll go to coffee. So we just met so many people just walking around the street. You get to know the neighborhood and you feel like you're a part of it for just a week. And man, I wouldn't swap that for any resort or any expensive hotel. It was awesome. Just really felt like, wow, this is what it would be like to live here. There was a grizzly bear that was shaking the West Valley? Yeah, there was a grizzly bear.

And when you don't know what you don't know, I just figured I was safe up there. And then I couldn't work out why my dad wanted to get me out of the little bunk bed and pull the roof down. Yeah, no, you could just smell some food in the Volkswagen. Gave us a little bit of a shake. Was there ever, I mean, other than grizzly bear tension, was there ever any tension when you're driving 12,000 miles in a family, in a van?

I remember how nervous we all got when there would be like bikies because the Volkswagen is super slow and there would be like big gangs of leather clad bikies going down the highway. And I remember just being so nervous that it was gonna be like, it was going to be like, what was that terrible, crazy, horrible movie, Battle Truck?

Do you remember that? Oh God, no. But that sounds so funny. Also, we call them bikers and I'm going to start calling them bikies because that makes it so much less scary. Bikers will be furious to be called bikies. It's really great. That's true.

It's wonderfully emasculating. I would like to apologize to all bikers for saying that. No, no, no. Bikies. Those are bikies it's really great that's true i i would wonderfully amass i would like to apologize to all bikers for saying no no no bikers those are bikies bikies yeah no i just remember being petrified and um and then at some point my dad was like okay i think we might just uh stop here and fill up with some gas well i could fold off the side of the yeah but you know what the the reality is they were just look scary in their blood. Yeah, they just look, they're enjoying the open road just as much as you are. Yeah, they could care less about us. Yeah. You and your sister are close in age,

and then your brother's a bit younger, yeah? My brother's 13 years younger. He's a musician. My sister runs a tourism college in Oakland. We were very tight when I was young. We grew up, college in Auckland. We were very tight when I was young. We grew up, unfortunately, I had like in the seventies, had long hair down to my shoulders that looked a little bit like I was a girl for a little bit. That wasn't good. It didn't go down too well, but you know, it was the seventies and it was, you know, that long hair thing was in. Oh yeah. You're allowed. Yeah. I mean, back when you guys were born, I was, you know, just getting into the long hair. Josh had, trust me, Josh in a time where nobody had long hair.

We're talking early to mid-90s had hair down to his butt. I was also in the musical hair in college. So it's sort of, but I feel like it was long even before I auditioned for that musical. I think you might have got the part because you already had the hair. Were you successful in your dating endeavors at all? Josh has always done very well. Josh has always done very well. Yeah, I sort of had one girlfriend through most of college,

and I feel like, yeah, she didn't mind the long hair. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And you guys are still looking very healthy in the hair department, just to, yeah, just to say, yeah, Josh sets the bar and I'm just trying to keep up. But again, I got two years on him. So you never know what's going to happen in the two years. He has to get rid of trouble. You know, um, speaking of, you know, you asked before about going to places and everything. My

dad had a lifelong dream of going to Iceland and it was like a once in a lifetime experience that he really, really wanted. So this last summer, uh, he's 81 now we took him and we'd been there for amazing race a few times. So we revisited some of the, the places that we went to. It was just amazing to be able to give that back to him, you know, and my mom, after all of travel they gave us as kids and they paid all the bills and for us to be able to reciprocate and to give them that once in a lifetime opportunity. And we, we circled Iceland for 10 days. I don't know if I've ever been recognized as much from amazing race as specifically. And what was really cool was there was a lot of people that came up to me and said, Oh, we saw Iceland on amazing Race and we decided to come here. And it was at places that I'd been. And I was showing my

mom and dad like, hey, this is where we had the mat. And this is, you know, I did a stand up here at three o'clock in the morning near the Gulfess waterfall. It was three o'clock in the morning and the sun was still up. And I had a drone fly over here and shot a thing right here. And so it was just a payback, you know, for my parents giving me that wonderful love of travel and, and people. So I was really pleased I got to do it. You got to take these chances when you got them. Cause you just, you just don't know. Yeah. It didn't pay off for your dad. Was it what he had hoped it would be? And more. Yeah. And he still talks about it. And, um, you know, my dad says a lot in a very practical way, being a scientist, he says, you know, my dad says a lot in a very practical

way, being a scientist, he says, you know, maybe I've got four or five summers left, you know, when he says it like that. And that's not to say that I'm going to outlive him, but just, he just says it in a practical way. And, and he says, you know, while I'm healthy, I'd love to do as many adventures as I came with you. He calls me PJ. We drove across America together, promoting my book back in 2005, 10 cities in 10 days. We had the best time. I've done so many adventures with him. He was with me when I rode across America. He was with me when I retraced the 1928 Tour de France. He drove. So I feel really lucky that I've had these opportunities with my parents. But to anybody who's listening, who's maybe thinking about doing something with a significant other or a parent or a friend, you just really got to jump in and go because it can all be taken

away so quick. During the pandemic, my mom got sick. I couldn't get on the plane and go see her. You just realize it's just so important anyway. If you have the opportunity to share those experiences with people, don't put it off. Yeah, it's really good advice. My fiance took her father to Iceland a few years ago. We did a New Year's, Seth and myself and his now wife and my now fiance years

ago. We went to Iceland for New Year's and it was great, but you also had maybe five hours of daylight a day. Yes. And my fiance loved it so much and she really wanted to do a trip with her dad. And we're from the Northeast. Her father's from the much. And she really wanted to do a trip with her dad. And we're from the Northeast. Her father's from the Northeast. And getting to Iceland, it's one of those things that you don't think about it. But it's easier to get to Iceland than it is to get to LA. Isn't that crazy?

Yeah. Yeah, it's so crazy. And you fly direct out of Boston. And all of sort of, you're in a place that is truly otherworldly. It is otherworldly. Yeah. There's some crazy statistic, like half the volcanic eruptions in the last 500 years on earth have happened in Iceland. It's where the European plate and the North American tectonic plates meet and you can actually see it. We had the teams diving between them. Wow. And my dad being, like I said, being a scientist and being into geography, it's just awesome.

Do you guys all get on? Like your fiance and- Yeah. Yeah. We're very lucky that way. Yeah, we've done a couple of big trips like that. We did Tour Mont Blanc, which is one of the, that was, I can't wait for my kids to be old enough

to do it because they would be impossible. Literally when I think about Tour Mont Blanc now and them, I just hear whining. I can't wait for my kids to be old enough to do it because they would be impossible. Literally, when I think about Tour Mont Blanc now and them, I just hear whining. But it was one of the great trips of my life. And again, credit to both Josh and my wife, who are the kind of people who think those are better trips than just going and sitting somewhere. And I think about it more fondly than certainly any hotel vacation I've ever had. Well, what's interesting about trips in general is the ones that are perfect and go according to plan where everything is like itemized on a piece of paper and someone goes, okay, today we're going to do this and that. And it's like,

those are the trips you don't really remember. What you remember is the bear shaking the Volkswagen and the rattlesnake. And you remember getting trapped on the Island because there was a hurricane coming and you couldn't catch the flight and you went to the airport and it was flooded and, and the flights were canceled. And you had to go back to the hotel and huddle with these strangers and you got to know them. And you know what I mean? You, you have to put yourself out there to get again, to get out of the resort and kind of chance your arm and risk maybe food poisoning from the chicken on the rotisserie. And like, just like, don't play it too safe. Like just take a couple of like step outside your comfort zone a little bit because the predictable stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Run of the mill.

We were in Morocco once and I ordered pigeon at a restaurant and Alexi was like, why are you doing that? I'm like, when am I going to have pigeon? And I threw up so many times on the plane ride home. Wow. Let's just say it's still awkward when even a New York City pigeon flies by. Yeah, I just, coming from New York and having seen so many pigeons and being shat on by a pigeon, I don't know how you could bring yourself to eat a pigeon. That is very brave.

I think I had a few cocktails maybe in the lead up to dinner. Maybe it was the cocktails that made you sick. Was it greasy and horrible? You know what? It was delicious. The one takeaway is it wasn't until the next morning when I realized I made a big... I mean, I thought until my entire stomach got turned upside down, I thought I was going to be the pigeon guy. I felt bad for the pigeons in New York because I was going to start setting traps. Well, let me ask you, I'm coming to New York. I'm coming to New York this weekend. And on the off chance I get the overwhelming desire to eat a pigeon.

Yeah. How would I prepare such a pigeon? Tons of salt. It doesn't matter how you cook it, but you're going to want to use as much salt as you've ever used. All right. We have questions we ask all our guests. But before, because you are unique, is there a family trip destination? Again, you've been to 140 plus countries. Somewhere

that people haven't thought of that you think is important or worth a trip? I want to suggest something that I think is important, that I think is something that is available to everybody or pretty much everybody. Because we are lucky that we are in a position that we can get on a plane and we can travel to Chile or Peru, or we can go to amazing destinations. But there's a lot of people that are not in a situation where they can travel far distances. So I would suggest, like, I really believe this, the best trips that I have ever had, regardless of where I've been, have been road trips. I really believe that getting in a vehicle, putting the phones down and getting in a vehicle

and being with people, being forced to spend time with people is the most extraordinary way of connecting with people you really care about. You can have moments of silence for 45 minutes, an hour, and nobody say nothing. And you're just there with that person and it can be so enjoyable. Then you can have really great conversations about where you are, what you're seeing. One of the things I love is if you're traveling and I've gone across country a few times, road trips are so awesome in America, is finding books that are written about the places you're driving through.

books that are written about the places you're driving through. You get to hear an author's description of the landscape in, say, Joshua Tree, or when you head out through the plains in Montana. So that would be my number one suggestion is at some point, and because it's affordable, more affordable than sometimes getting on a plane and going overseas, is think about a road trip. And then look at really interesting places to visit. Do your research and find out where the best burgers are, where there's like really interesting, like the biggest bowl of barbed wire. I did a show for FX when FX launched back in 94. And my job was to go anywhere in America, in any state. And I went to all 50 states over a period of three and a bit years. Tom Bergeron was hosting the show and he was in a studio in New York. And then I was one of the people that traveled around the country doing crazy things. Like I changed the light bulb on the Verrazano

bridge. I hand fed sharks. I milk spiders. I did a whole bunch of stuff, but I would dig into all the different States of America and find the most eclectic things to do. Like I went with a ghost busting couple in Chicago where they go around like getting rid of ghosts out of houses. There's tours that you can do. Like just do things that are different. Don't do the standard run of the mill like stuff.

Go try something different. Like eat a pigeon somewhere. Yeah. There you go. Thank you. Thank you for supporting my bad choices. Yeah. Or risky choices.

I read a thing recently. New York City's trying to get control of their rat population now. Yes. Like there's like a rat czar. Yeah. Or risky choices. I read a thing recently, New York City's trying to get control of their rat population now. Yes. There's like a rat czar. And some guy was making TikTok videos and being like, hey, New York, like as a public service, like I know where the rats are. I'll show you where these rats are. And then people were like, can you run tours? And now he's running rat tours in New York City where people who are like, don't want to go see a Broadway show, but are like, I'll go look at all these rats. I'll go see where the rats hang out. And like, yeah, you can find those things. I could see Seth eating a rat.

You know what I mean? In the right circumstance. I mean, if he. I think double cocktails for pigeon, but I think I can get to rat. I mean, but what a great idea, right? Like to take something, when we were in Sicily just now, there were all these local cats and they keep the cats to get rid of the rats. And so all the locals feed these wild cats that live on the streets. They're these beautiful looking cats and they help to keep the rats down. And rats get into homes,

cats don't get into houses as much. And so they'd rather have the cats on the street than the rats in the house. Sure. I don't think that would work in New York, but I do, I just, I love that this guy's doing rat tours, you know? Yeah. I think it was a good idea to get a rat czar.

I thought it was a bad idea to publicly announce you'd hired one. I feel like that's a, that's like, it's like hiring a hit man. Like I know there are times where you do it, but you don't go out there and introduce them to the media. I also think it's a she. I want to clarify, which of course, it's a terrible job. They were like, we need to find a woman who's smart enough to figure out

this rat problem that we've allowed to run out of control. Yeah. I love when people just do things that are different. And I've always gravitated towards people that just think differently. And I don't know if you read, but I putted a golf ball across Scotland once. I did read that. I thought it was a typo when I read it. I was doing stories for CBS News and I did a story. Again, I just love eccentric people that are different. And I found a guy who was a, he was an accountant and he hated his job. And he came home one day and he sat down in his chair and he, and he says to his wife how much he hates his life. And she says, well, what, what do you want to do? And he says, I want to get paid to drink a whiskey. And she said, well, you could do that. You could become

a whiskey taster. And anyway, he ended up becoming a whiskey taster for Glenn Livet. I met him, Jeremy Bell and man in a skirt.com I think is his website. And I just loved this guy. I just loved his zest for life. He told stories, he drank whiskey, talked about whiskey, knew everything about whiskey. And anyway, he said, um, uh, you know, I've got a bottle of whiskey, you know, can I come home and hang with you tonight? I said, sure. So anyway, lo and behold, we might've had whiskey and I, I don't, I mean, I'm not good with the hard liquor stuff. I mean, I drink, I love wines. I love Pina Moise, a couple of beers, that's it. But anyway. You're talking to a guy who ate a pigeon. I'm not joking.

Yes. Thank you. I appreciate that. And possibly a rat soon. Yeah. Soon. So anyway, we have a couple of drinks and we dream up this idea. I used to wear a kilt at school that I'm going to throw a bull out of a plane. I'm going to leap out. I know how to skydive. I'm going to leap out and I'm going to skydive with my kilt on and I'm going to follow the ball down to the coast. It's going to land on the beach. And then I'm going to putt the ball from Greenock to St. Andrews from west to east across Scotland, 107 miles with a seven iron. Anyway, that was the idea under the influence of some Glenn Libet.

Was it? Yeah. I was going to say, I sure wasn't like grain alcohol or gasoline. And anyway, cut to four years later. That's how long it takes to get across Scotland. Well, that's gotten the rough a couple of times with my pigeons following me. And I was in London doing a story about the world beard and mustache competition. And I'm so close to Scotland. So I call up my friend and I go, I think I'm going to do it. So the mayor comes out. He gives us this big send off. And I take a seven iron and I do 30 something miles a day for four days.

And at St. Andrews on the 18th and birdied the last hole with a seven iron. But along the way, the best part of it was every night I would go to a local pub wherever we landed and I would put my, I lost a lot of golf balls, but I would put whatever golf ball I was currently playing with on the table and then buy everybody a drink, the locals, and just talk and meet people. And it was one of the best experiences I ever had because it's just, it's not something you can buy in a tour guide book. It's just, it came out of, well, it was an expensive bottle of whiskey, but it came from being motivated by doing something different rather than just same old.

I like how you said you like eccentrics while failing to recognize this whole time you've been the eccentric. You've almost in every situation been the weirder this whole time you've been the eccentric. You've almost in every situation been the weirder of the person you've met. This is true. This is very true. Josh, you want to ask Phil the rest of our questions? Sure. I got a good feeling I know how the first one lands. You can only pick one of these. Is your ideal vacation relaxing, adventurous, or educational? Two and three. I like that. Adventurous and educational.

I love learning stuff on top of being adventurous. Of course. What is your favorite means of transportation? Train, plane, automobile, on foot, bike, boat? You've probably got some weird ones in there too. Yeah, I'm going to say... I'm going to guess. I know it.

A resort paddleboard. I've been listening. I know exactly what you like. Yeah. That sounds just like me. I just can't wait. I'm going to say plane, if only because I feel like a plane is like a time capsule. It's still magic to me that we do what we do. We get in this steel tube and we arrive in another world. And it's still, after all these years of traveling, it still blows my mind that we have the ability to fly over the world's biggest oceans and land in some faraway place. It still blows my mind. I never take it for granted. Yeah. Great. If you could take a family vacation with any family

other than your own family, They could be a real family, a fictional family. They could be a historical family. What family would you like to take a family vacation with? Wow. That's a really tough question. Wow. I think maybe the Hillarys. So Edmund Hillary has a son called Peter Hillary. And after Edmund Hillary climbed Mount Everest in 1953, he and his families went on these incredible adventures. Hillary went to the South Pole on an adventure in tractors. He navigated some of the Ganges. And the family as a whole, the Hillary family,

traveled on these incredible adventures. I think I'd love to join them. That would have been pretty awesome. Excellent. Great answer. Excellent pick. If you had to be stranded on a desert island with one member of your family, who would it be? It's tough, and you're not allowed to choose your wife, I presume, right? No, you can. No, you can. Oh, yeah. No, I would definitely hang with my wife. Yeah, you guys seem like you got a good thing going. Yeah, we're good friends and yeah, that would still work. Great. And where, where do you consider when you say where you're from? You're from a lot of places, but where are you from? Are you from New Zealand? Yeah. It's funny. You should get that. Cause I, I missed out on a job once because I said,

I felt like my home was where my family was and that's from New Zealand. And I was up for a job and the exact network executive didn't like the fact that I said, New Zealand. And I was up for a job and the network executive didn't like the fact that I said New Zealand, my family being from New Zealand, he wanted me to say America. So I'm a little sensitive to answering that question, but I hope that I don't lose my job for saying it, but no, it's where my family is. That's home. It doesn't matter where they are, but in this particular case, that happened to be New Zealand. I have, you know, my godfather lives in Antigua. He's amazing. He rode across the Atlantic when he was 67. I'm going to say New Zealand, but I don't really think I belong to one place. Yeah, no, you definitely don't. But taking New Zealand then, and I'm pretty sure this is a yes, would you recommend New Zealand as a

family vacation destination? If people can afford to go to New Zealand, I think the value for money is very good, particularly for Americans. The exchange rate right now is 0.58. Dollar for dollar, everything costs more or less the same. I think New Zealanders, they're a unique type of people. We're kind of a relatively a new country compared to other countries. Maori, first indigenous people arrived 800 years ago, and then Europeans only 200 and something years ago. So it still has that pioneering spirit adventure. And yeah, I don't think you could go wrong.

Yeah. And I guess if you go, just don't expect them to be very excited or impressed with things that you've done that you think are exceptional. Do not show off if you go to New Zealand. Be understated and you'll fit right in. Yeah. And we love that. That old thing with the poppies.

And then Seth sort of has his first answer, but yeah. I do. I know you've been to the Grand Canyon and I know you're going to say that it's worth it. I love the Grand Canyon. How many times have you been? Oh, maybe half a dozen, half a dozen times. Yeah, going back to the the early first time was 1972 or

three, somewhere around there. Yeah. I mean, if I saw a rattlesnake my first time, I would never have gone back. I tip my cap. I think that's what I was saying about America. I feel bad sometimes, you know, it's just not an option for some people to travel, but there is a lot of amazing stuff to see in America. And I would just encourage people to, if they can afford it again, America is the best place for a road trip, I think, in the world. It's awesome. Yeah. And campgrounds aren't that expensive in the national parks. And there's creative ways of traveling too. My brother did it. He relocated an RV. And a lot of rental cars, you can check it out. They'll allow you to move a car. Sometimes they end up with too many RVs on the East Coast.

They need them brought over the West Coast. And so you can get a vehicle and then just pay for the gas. Or I know people that have bought a really cheap car, driven across the country, and then sold the car pretty much for the same price. So you sort of come out neutral. You're just paying for gas. And there's lots of creative ways of traveling. I'm always encouraging people to look at working and traveling. If you get a scuba diving certification, you can work anywhere in the world, traveling around the world, you can go pick fruit in places. So you have to be creative with how you create opportunity for travel. Like being on a cruise boat, for instance, where you're not paying for food and not paying for accommodation, you're making money, but you're getting to get off the ship at certain

places. So even if you don't have money, there are creative ways of experiencing the world and traveling. Well, I think you maybe are the best fit of a guest we've ever had on this podcast. So it's just been delightful talking to you, Phil. Well, I got to say, I stumbled across your podcast. I love the bond that you guys have, the two of you. I have a great bond with my brother. I could just tell that you guys really love each other, respect each other. And I just started listening. I was like, really? These two, they're talking about traveling and all that sort of stuff. And then when we were talking about promoting Amazing Race and this incredible season that we have. And they were asking me about

different places to promote the show. And I said, well, you know what? I said, you should have a listen to these Myers brothers. They're actually really interesting. Be a good place to talk about Amazing Race. Well, it was a perfect fit. New episodes of Amazing Race air every Wednesday until December 13th. Congrats on another season. It's incredible what you guys do and pull off year after year, season after season. And hopefully we'll see you in person soon. That would be really cool.

And both of you guys keep up the great work. I hope we run into each other somewhere. Yeah, we'll let you know if we go to New Zealand. We'll take every recommendation you've got. Oh yeah, we'll take you up on that. That's a genuine, sincere offer. We'll hold you to it. I'm going to shoot a travel

show there in December. I've done a few travel shows from Smithsonian on New Zealand. If you guys need to whet your appetite, you could check those out, but I thoroughly recommend it and do let me know if you ever want to go. Will do. Thank you so much. Thank you, buddy. This was the best. Thank you guys. It's really nice to meet you guys. Keep up the great work. In dismay of his friends Phil Cogan Drove in a camper van Travelling with his fam Two national parks All the national parks One time a bear shook the camper Fairly thought he would be safe there Then there came a biker gang

Not so tough when their bike is Phil Coggan Went to the Grand Canyon And met a couple Who just got in touch After 50 years. Phil Cogan likes to travel the world with his wife and his little girl. Not so keen on all-inclusive resorts,

but very much likes his New Zealand sports. Phil Cogan, he likes to play cricket As a batsman, he hits it for six He is also a rugby fan I can do the haka but I bet that he can He had a show, 345 Live It aired live at 345 He interviewed Sylvester Stallone

Red-headed kingpin was totally stoned. Phil Cogan says to put your phones down. Have conversations while you're driving around. Phil Cogan said to Peter Jackson. He made executives nervous because he does a lot of no. Yeah. Thanks to Airbnb for sponsoring this episode.