Family Trips with the Meyers Brothers - TONY, JOHN, & DAN GILROY Went River Rafting With No Helmets

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

Tony, John, and Dan Gilroy join Seth and Josh on the pod this week! They talk all about growing up with a father who was a playwright, going to Broadway shows their whole childhood, what unplanned adventures their family took together, their sibling dynamics as they got older, a trip to The Grand Canyon, and so much more! Plus, they talk about season two of the show all three brothers for on together, Andor, now streaming on Disney+. Watch more Family Trips episodes: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlqYOfxU_jQem4_NRJPM8_wLBrEEQ17B6 Family Trips is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Theme song written and performed by Jeff Tweedy. ------------------------- Support our sponsors: Blueland Blueland has a special offer for listeners. Right now, get 15% off your first order by going to Blueland.com/trips Cash App Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/4aafc4yf #CashAppPod Get Soul Right now, Soul is offering our audience 30% off your entire order! Go to GetSoul.com and use the code TRIPS ------------------------- About the Show: Lifelong brothers Seth Meyers and Josh Meyers ask guests to relive childhood memories, unforgettable family trips, and other disasters! New Episodes of Family Trips with the Meyers Brothers are available every Tuesday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi Pashi. Hi Sufi. I got a question. I'm gonna let our guest today be a guide for my opening query. Okay. First time we've done three brothers. Yeah. Is that right?

I think so. Yeah. I mean, again. There's no way of knowing, there's no way to research this stuff. You just have to take it in. I'm pretty confident this is the first time we've done a trio of brothers. We have done a trio of sisters.

Himes. Yeah. And maybe another one that I can't remember. So apologies. It's sometimes when I see, cause it's so fun the way these brothers talk to each other. How do you think a third brother would have fit into our dynamic?

Follow-up, do you think we would let them be on the podcast? I mean, I think you incorporate whatever comes along into your sort of family dynamic. So I don't know where they would have fit, but I think with all groups of friends, like, you know, we've got that big group of college friends that we see, everyone sort of plays their role. of friends, like, you know, we've got that big group of college friends that we see. Everyone sort of plays their role. Yeah. And you don't know what your role is until you've sort of lived in it for a while.

And so, yeah, we have our roles in the family and I don't know what a third brother would have been, but they would have found their way. Incorrect. The answer was I don't think we would have liked them. Oh, no. So not on the podcast. Wouldn't have had them on the podcast. It is that. I mean, again, we had two boys and I was like, oh, this is great. You and I couldn't ask for better childhood than I had going through with you. And I'm like, we're good with two.

And now, I will say a little jealous, a little jealous that there's three of them. They have that thing where when one of them leaves, to go to a sleepover or maybe one of them, I don't know where else kids go, job. Maybe they have a job when they leave. The dynamic between the two without the other one around is never worse. Right.

You know what I mean? They have a great three-headed relationship, between the two without the other one around is never worse. Right. You know what I mean? Like they have a great sort of three headed relationship, but anytime one of those heads takes off, it's just so much better, which is why people with two heads are just in general have a happier life than people with three.

People with two heads and people with three heads? Again, I'm getting a little lost on the analogy here, Pashi. You're going into the mythology of- Yeah, it's a myth, you know, a lot of the Greek gods, the three-headed Greek gods are always like, oh, I wish this one would go somewhere so we could talk. There is a little bit of that where, you know, I think when you have a third sibling,

it does open up the avenue for what I believe is a healthy shit talking. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, sometimes you just want to have somebody to complain to about a sibling. Right. Yeah. It's a release valve. It's a vent.

It's a vent. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, there you have it. Yeah. You have two dogs and I sometimes think that I wish I had a second dog for Frisbee to hang out with. Yeah. Although Frisbee doesn't seem like she'd be, maybe there was a time Frisbee would have wanted another dog around.

Yeah. I think now Frisbee, if there was another dog around, she'd be like, open the window so I can jump to my death. No, I mean, we had, you know, we had two dogs, and then, you know, sadly, but also, as is the way, our very old 18 and a half year old dog passed away and we were sad, obviously, but then our dog Debbie seemed a bit sad to be all alone. Then we got this young whippersnapper Woody. Debbie never seemed to be super into Pickles,

the old dog who had passed away, but she was initially not into Woody at all, but now, man, she just loves him and he loves her. And it does seem like he's breathed new life into the old girl. I got to spend a nice afternoon slash evening with you and Mackenzie and Woody and Debbie. It was great. I would say they bark for the first hour I'm there. Yeah, they bark a bit. Do you think it's like, not that I'm a stranger,

but rather that thing of like, it's almost like I'm trying to pass myself off as you. I'm not a whole new thing. It's like, this is some shady. Yeah, well with Debbie, it's anyone that makes eye contact with her or that walks in the house. But other than that, isn't she cool? She's very cool just around us.

She will occasionally, if I'm like out walking the dogs, Mackenzie gets home and sees us up the road, Mackenzie will just like walk straight to us. And I don't know if Debbie just doesn't recognize Mackenzie right away, but she'll very often bark at her and Mackenzie takes offense at that because there's probably, there's definitely no one in the world who loves Debbie more than Mackenzie. But I don't know, maybe it's just her saying hello. Maybe it's just her way of conversing

is by yelling at you. I was talking about this before, but I did do that thing where I was waiting for you guys to get home. I started last minute, it was like, hey, is now a good time to roll over? I was sitting on your front steps, and I didn't realize you guys had come through the garage. So I was out on the front steps of the home you live in, and we're close, and again,

we look and sound close enough. I feel like three different people came by and were like, hey, and I was like, hey. And then they like something, they had that Debbie moment of like, wait a second. Oh yeah. You're an imposter. You're not who you're supposed to be.

But still, I'm happy to report that you're obviously a beloved member of the neighborhood because people are really excited to see you. I've been here a long time. I know a lot of people in this neighborhood. You have. You've really lived in one neighborhood for a long time. Yeah. And a lot of people do. I mean, people love this neighborhood. It's good hood.

Yeah, good hood for sure. You've been getting cocktails. I mean, the biggest development right now in your life is that you keep telling me the best place to get cocktails is your grocery store. Well, they don't have, it's beer and wine. Oh, okay, gotcha. Just beer and wine. But it's great. So now that is normal.

This is the Gilroy Brothers and they're just so awesome. Yeah, they're awesome. They, I mean, all played a part in bringing Andor to life. And so many things that you've all seen and loved over the years. But Andor, I mean, we leaned into it pretty hard in this episode, how much we both loved it. Tony wrote and directed one of my favorite movies, Michael Clayton.

Great one. I just had George Clooney my favorite movies, Michael Clayton. Great one. And I just had George Clooney on the show for the first time. Nice. And got to ask him about Clayton. I think it's a super funny story about it. Great. So, you know, look, if you're not just a podcast person, if you're also a TV person. You could go dial that up.

You could go dial that up. But dial that up later, because right now you're right here, right now. Don't split your focus. All I'm saying, Posh, before we go to the theme song is like, I didn't need another brother because I got everything I needed from you. Oh, that's sweet. I mean, not all good stuff.

Just everything you needed. Everything I needed. Sometimes I needed someone to be a real taskmaster. All right, here's Jeff Tweedy. Enjoy. Family trips with the Myers Brothers. Family trips with the Myers Brothers. Here we go. Here they are. All right.

One, two, three. It's the Gilroy boys. There's five more of us that are going to come on in a minute. I don't think the Zoom can handle five more. No, we're coming on. I mean, if there's a set of brothers who would have good tech and tech enough to do this, I feel it would be you guys. Well, the good news is the stuff you said, we were going to start our own podcast,

and this is perfect. Oh no. Somebody pulled a fast one on us. Family trips, I think, is going to be our thing. You're on our show. Oh no. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, I got to talk to my agents. I do that contract. This is Nathan for you. We're going to sort of reverse everything. First of all, I do just want to say, I want to start by congratulating you all, having finished Andor. It's such a triumph.

I loved it so much. I'm very sad that it's over. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And Seth doesn't like much. I really don't. Yeah, he really doesn't. The hardest thing about my current job is how often I have to pretend I like a thing I didn't like.

Oh yeah. I get that. I like a thing I didn't like. Oh yeah. I get that. I watched the, you guys released three episodes sort of in a block for four weeks and it was great. I watched them like a new movie came out every week, although I thought it was nine episodes and when I got to the end of that ninth episode, I was really like, huh, how could they end it here? Yeah. Okay. it yeah dangling

little dangling yeah but I quickly got out the the Google and figured out that there were three more and was yeah was delighted you weren't alone I got like three emails from people on that like Wednesday morning wow congratulations and but I could tell there was a little hint of like what the fuck are are you doing? Yeah. We talked about it. We talked about it in there. We were gonna give Mon Mothma the baby as she was escaping from the Senate. That didn't fly in the room for some reason.

I don't know why. Didn't work. Now, do you guys approve of, I have a plan and I wanna make sure I have your approval before I do it, which is I'm gonna watch Rogue One in three sittings just to like trick myself. It's never been done.

It's never been done, you'd be the first. Because I will, I mean, I loved Rogue One a great deal, and yet I have not seen it since I saw it in the theater, so I'm very excited, actually. Are you a Star Wars fan? Are you both Star Wars fans, or not? I think I'm a fan the way, certainly Tony described it to me when he was on the show,

which is I loved the show a lot, and then you realize there's a kind of fan that you are not. But it was a very important part of my childhood. Yeah, I mean, some of the first memories we have of going to the theaters with our parents are for Star Wars movies. And our dad, like at the end of, I think the first one,

just going like, all right. The second one. I think somebody said, I'm a Jedi. Wait, some Luke said something that my dad screamed, yeah, really loud. Your dad was a Star Wars fan, going back to 77. No, it was a big deal when it came out. I think Tony's setting your show.

He saw it, I saw it the Friday night. Johnny, you were with me. Johnny and I and some friends went the Friday night in Paramus Mall that had opened up. Yeah. And did the film break and burn or something? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That was another thing.

Different, different movie. That was the actual ending climax, I got it wrong. Right. So, all right, Tony, I knew you had two brothers. What I didn't know until today is that John and Dan showed up at the exact same time. You guys are twin brothers. We're twin brothers.

We are identical. I think you can tell, right? Well, for the podcast listeners, we'll just go with fully identical. If you're watching on YouTube, fraternal. I'll raise my hand when it's Dan, just so you guys know. Tony, did your parents tell you

before your brother showed up that you were gonna have two at once, and how did you feel? The easiest way to describe it, it literally is my first memory. So on two and a half, I remember it. I remember all kinds of things from that day. And then I kind of don't remember anything for about 15 years after that. I mean, it was highly traumatic for me, I think.

I would imagine. It really was. He let us know that over and over and over again. No, no, no. That's a family. You know how families get their cliché stories. But it was clearly a shock. It was a shock.

I had everything under control until then. Where were you living at that point? We were living in Brentwood, the Pacific Palisades. Palisades, when it was really, I mean, when it was heaven. It was just as, it was an absolute vacant lots and orange trees and it was really exquisite. So you were, but you were in New Yorker and then was your family out in LA for work?

My father had been, he had been, I mean, it's a long, complicated story, but World War II saved his life. He lied his way into Dartmouth College where he transformed himself from a complete ne'er-do-well into a rock star. He went to the early version of Yale Drama School and was instantly bored because

he'd already had a bunch of plays produced and he became he was a gambler. He became a horse handicapper for several years like a sit like a bit a good money system that paid and he wrote for he started writing for live TV. And he got traction in live TV and then followed live TV out to LA and became a studio writer and a bungalow writer. And when we were living there, he was a like a happening screenwriter. But Tony, you were born in New York. I was born in New York.

John and I were born out here. For a couple years in New York. And then we moved to LA. This is maybe the only story I've ever heard where it's like my dad was a gambler and it turned out great. No, it didn't turn out great. Okay. No,'s like, my dad was a gambler and it turned out great. No, it didn't turn out great, but he had a... He was a gambler. There are subsistence gamblers who can make a living

and he had a money system with another guy. He also moved us to New York, moved us back to New York, and then we all ended up in the business. He moved us away so we could... We lived in LA for five years. And so, but he brought you back to New York because he did not want his kids to necessarily be showbiz kids, and then you all,

but you all found your way to it independently. Thank God he's dead. He'd be so disappointed. I mean, one of the few blessings in our lives is that he didn't get to see this. No. No, but he, he, um, uh, you do have an idea how this is gonna go now.

Yeah, yeah. Already, yeah, you see how it's gonna go. I certainly know how, I know what role Dan plays in a writer's room, I can tell you that. All the jokes that didn't get into the show, I wrote, there was so much comedy. No, but he, his aspiration was always to be a playwright. So in the, actually action the big strike in in

in the in 60s he he he wrote up he wrote a play and He he he got off as a playwright and when he finally had when he finally had it going on He he moved back used to be a playwright And he did when he went is a Pulitzer Prize winning playwright Right. And he did win a, he won a Pulitzer Prize winning play, right? When did that happen? 64, 63? 65.

65. Gotcha. I know he was a gambler. He would gamble on horses. He loved to go to Vegas, but he made independent films and he gambled heavily on his independent films. He wrote, he wrote everything was autobiographical and he kept diaries and he published his journals in different forms.

And when you go back and look, he's talking about raising the money for like the third film and getting to a fight with our mom because he's taking out a second mortgage on the house. I mean, it was like everything he could tell you not to do. His gambling instincts were just like, just going to roll my own money on this. You know, he was a true gambler. The definition of a real gambler is somebody who gambles more than they can afford to lose. I like to gamble. I'm not a gambler like him. You guys didn't self-fund Andor, correct? You got some money from Disney for that?

Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah. It was a funding thing. No, but he, yeah. So he, yeah, he came back east and he became a really big deal. I mean, there was a period of time where he was just an absolute Broadway rock star.

I mean, he's the president of the Drama Disguiled and he was a real serious player, big time. What was your mom's background? What did she do? She grew up in New Jersey, second generation. Her parents came from Hungary and Czechoslovakia and they had raised an entire family by the time she was born. She was a very late child. There's pictures of my grandparents, if you look at it, it looks like it's a daguerreotype. I mean, seriously man, they were like, he'd be like 150 now. So they were tired and old and they had already

raised children and she was an exceptional addition to that family. I think she was sort of an alien there. And both of them, he was an only child and she was an only child in a way, they both made that massive crazy post-war reinvention where they just invented themselves and just made the shit up as they went along. She ran away from home at 16 basically and became, you know, whatever the proto hippie Mary Tyler Moore was of 1951.

She's in the village and you know. They met on a blind date at a jazz club. They met on a blind date at a jazz club. They met on a blind date. He was supporting himself as a horse gambler, she was into jazz and it all just kind of worked out. That seems like, I don't know, like a Mad Libs, what was happening in the village.

Well, I mean, if you think of all the, it is interesting, the chaos of that time, I mean, they were not alone. Their whole cohort was made up of a lot of people who, like, what are we? We're nothing but, I mean, the three of us, we're upgrades. We're just replicants of shit that happened before. Maybe we do it better. We learn from past mistakes.

We have a whole platform of experiences to draw on. They had nothing. They had magazines. They had what other people were doing, like the Kennedys are doing this, we should do that. You know, I mean, literally, they like, it was, it was all homemade and fascinating and full of all the joie de vivre that comes with that, but then all full of all the, all the error that comes with that too.

When they moved back east, we wound up growing a and a farmhouse in the Hudson Valley not far from West Point It's kind of a nine acre sprawling former farmhouse kind of in the middle of nowhere back then and And then raising us they were like the complete opposite of helicopter parents they they did sort of say hello to you once in a while and and And I give you food but other than that we were kind of on hello to you once in a while and give you food. But other than that, we were kind of on our own. They gave us love and everything, but there was a lot of independent. And dinner was on the table at 630 every night. But other

than that, you could do anything you wanted to do. There was a school. You guys had to go to school, right? There was a school. There was a school. Okay. It was a public school. It was a very, very unusual moment in time and place that we grew up. We grew up, again, this is too long, but like, Washingtonville, New York, at that point in

time, had three separate constituencies jamming into a school simultaneously. There was Stuart Air Force Base, which was a SAC, a Strategic Air Command, so it was pilots, engineers, the hottest moms in history because they were all the best looking girl in every town who could marry an Air Force guy. The kids were so glamorous. They would go to Germany and they would park in our school for a couple years. That's one third of it. One third of it is the Washingtonville dairy community which has been there forever of which like 30% of its black from before the Civil War like, you know, conservative black community. And then where we grew up and then what we were part of a wave of is just this massive exodus of out of New York City,

the Robert Moses exodus. And our neighborhood was nothing but the sons and daughters of New York City cops and firemen, literally everywhere around us. So you mix those three overcrowding, drugs, Vietnam, civil rights, heroin comes to New Burg. I mean, it was... Addy Hoffman. It was like, when I went, by the time the boys... They're a little bit behind me.

By the time they got to high school, they had just started to get under control. But my formative years were... You wouldn't believe the chaos of the high school. Yeah. Upstate New York. It's so funny. Well, that was the thing I was going to ask. You all give off the vibe of people who grew up

in New York City, how did that happen considering you grew up in the Hudson Valley? And then of course you've answered the question, which is it was, it basically seems like they exported New York City to upstate. Partially, yeah. I guess so. I mean, it was, I think the main takeaway is that they're really, I don't ever remember

having homework ever, really. Yeah. No. You know, and you could test well and they threw me out of there when I was 16 and I left, you know, it was, man, it was crazy there. Did you guys share a room? No, it was, it was a big farmhouse, like five bedrooms, sprawling kind of thing. It was large and it was kind of like,

you could get lost in it a little bit. So we all had a little bit. Were you in a wing set off from your parents? Johnny. Johnny was in a wing. I had my own wing. Well played. Why do you think you got your own wing, Johnny?

I was editing all their little films. You didn't sleep well, I remember. You'd be up late at night. Maybe that's why they wanted you to sort of go on the way. I don't think. It wasn't that big a house. It was, we did not make wings. When I say wing, yeah, but there are sometimes,

there's a bedroom that's set off from the others, and it sounds like that's where you were. I was next to the au pairs room, which is actually a pretty good thing to do. We were raised in a lot of ways, but we had seven or eight au pairs growing up. They would come every year, because my dad would go away,

our dad would go away for months at a time to LA. My mom was there alone with three boys. We were a handful to say the least. So every year, every 365 days, a new au pair would come from Germany or France or England or God knows where, and we had seven or eight of them. And they were a big part of our lives. Like sisters, like until they got too interested. They were more than sisters

They were like mothers sisters girlfriends. I mean it's like you're Every year they leave you're just holding on to their thighs going No, I know that's that's a component yeah I yeah, I I think if think if a German girl spent a year with my two sons, they would be living in Berlin right now. They'd be like, we're going with her. I know, I know. I spent time in therapy talking about the old paradise.

I do. Really? Yeah, because they would leave every year. It was so emotionally traumatic that after the sixth time, it was like, I'm not going to cry about this shit anymore. It's just like, it's a life lesson, Dan. That's what it is., I'm not going to cry about this shit anymore. So it's just like the shit it developed. It's a life lesson, Dan. That's what it is. Hey, we're going to take a quick break

and hear from some of our sponsors. Support for Family Trips comes from Airbnb. Hey, Pashi. Yes, Uffy. You know, we're taking this Amsterdam trip and I'm heading over there with Ash. And one of the things that's so exciting for me is showing my son this town, this city, I used to live in.

And it's really cool because you're gonna be there. A lot of the people we used to work with over in Amsterdam are gonna be there. And it's so fun that he's gonna see it through my eyes. Yeah, I'm excited too. But when I lived there, I wasn't living in a hotel, obviously, we fully lived there. So it's been so cool looking at Airbnbs that

he and I could stay at because I want the full Amsterdam experience as a guy who lived there. And it's so cool that, you know, people who are living there now are, you know, making their homes these incredible things for travelers like myself or my son to come and have an extra special trip. Yeah. And maybe you have an incredible home that you've created and you'd like to let other people stay in your house, maybe make a little extra money, share

what you've created to make people's vacations and people's travels all that much more special. Your home could be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host. Support comes from Blueland. Hey Pashi. Yes Sufi. Let me tell you I'm not a fan of plastic in general but my least favorite kind of plastic is single-use plastic. Oh yeah it's the worst. Nobody wants single-use plastic

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Blueland.com slash trips for 15% off. That's blueland.com slash trips to get 15% off. ["Here We Go"] All right, so you were allowed to do, obviously, whatever you want, you had a great deal of freedom, but were you then the family that would get together and go everywhere on a trip to Fivey?

Yes, yeah. That was the one thing my parents did. They really, they took us. They almost never went on vacation by themselves. It was always a family vacation and they we were very well traveled as as kids. It was a Europe and California. There was a pattern to it. Frank, like all careers, would have highs and lows.

And as a gambler, you can see that might have been extenuated by that. So when he had money, it would be big trips, incredible trips. And then when there was no money, you know, he'd be mowing the lawn himself for a couple years. But it was but the trips themselves were usually built around he'd gotten a big check and blow out trip to Europe for two months or this Grand Canyon thing we may talk about or whatever. It's like, yeah, please. But so Europe, a two months Europe trip,

like that must have been, you probably didn't know anyone your age who did that. Well, that's a really, that's something that we've discovered in the last couple of years that we didn't, I think it was just sitting there sort of obvious for us, but it came up in another interview and then we were together in LA

and we had this conversation we This really happened, but we didn't really acknowledge it until recently we never could tell Any of our friends or any of the kids that we hung out with or anything that was part of our life there? What we were doing on when we were doing this stuff. We never talked about, I mean, I went to every Broadway opening you can imagine through the 60s. There isn't one friend of mine who even knew what that was

about or ever understood it. We never spoke about any of the things that we did like that. So we had, we, all three of us had essentially, and there was some leakage as you get into high school, obviously you get girlfriends and different things, but in general, our memory is of completely, and never, it wasn't like, oh, let's not tell anybody, you just did it. It just was osmotic.

Yeah, so it wasn't your parents telling you like, no. No, it was just wanting to fit in. We knew what we had to do to fit in and I'll say also that I Mean we're all robust and we were all you know We were all physical and handy when we were kids if any of us had been weak If there was any kind of any any and not even weak if any of us had been really a little too interesting of any any and not even weak if any of us had been really a little too interesting at that point it would have been our neighborhood was there to expose everything that was wrong with you right well Johnny and I were bullied to a degree in third and fourth grade and then going at the fifth grade

there was a couple like we weren't bullying in particular and it was a big moment when Johnny one day punched the kid out and like suddenly like I looked at go oh you can fight back. And then we fought back for a little bit. Tony's thing we were talking about. Then you learn just why you can fucking talk about it. It's not even worth, you don't want to separate yourself from this group that you're hanging out with. So you just don't talk about it.

So we really, we never, we did an incredible number of really bizarre, luxurious and fascinating things in our childhood. There's another element of my father that I think because we kind of decided if we're going to talk about a family vacation, which one we're going to talk about, but he would in the same way, the same impulse control issue that he would probably have again, but he would like, he would just like get in the car and load it up. I remember when they were really young, we went to a place that no one had ever heard of before called Nantucket in like 62 or something, whatever the fuck it was.

I remember we're on the ferry and I don't remember, my father tells a story, and someone said, well, where are you staying? He goes, well, I haven't made reservations. We're just going to figure it out when we get there. He never got it. He would just wing it. Man, the stuff that... And he lucked out more often than not.

But it was very tension making for some of us. For me, it was very tension making. So that's interesting. So as kids, when you have a dad like that, you don't learn to be like that? You actually take... I learned to be like that. On our honeymoon, my wife gave me the responsibility of booking the hotel rooms, which when we got there, I did not.

I didn't realize what a big deal that was gonna be. I thought that was normal. I think Danny and I were blissfully ignorant. I think Tony, it really had an impact on Tony. Tony became the op. Tony's a planner. Tony always has that stuff done. He will never go anywhere unless he has a reservation.

He knows exactly what it is. Danny and I, you're more carefree when you're the younger sibling. You're kind of like, yeah. And Tony makes all of our plans, so it's perfect. Yeah. What about, how was your mom with it? Was she just, was she okay with the-

That's a good question. She rolled with it. She kind of, I mean, I'm sure she kind of rolled her eyes. She probably bothered her a little bit. But she, there was no fighting. They were not like, she wasn't like, I can't believe. Not that a little bit. But she, you know, there was no fighting. Not that we saw. I can't believe.

Not that we saw. They never fought in front of us. I never saw them raise a word, and there were definitely fights going on. Now Josh, would you say that's an accurate way to describe our parents? No. We had a, yeah. We had a front row seat. Front row seat.

Oh really? By the way, our parents are incredibly, like, love each other a ton, and they're our best friends, but the idea that we've never... It would be so funny to be like, you know, what would it look like if they fought in front of us? I wish they'd fought in front of us. I learned a bad lesson.

I thought, like, oh, couples don't fight. Like... You know what? They're sugarcoating a little bit. At my mom's funeral, I reminded everybody that I think the thing I heard most in our life is our father walking back down the hallway to the dinner table where we're sitting there and I hope you boys are happy but your mother is upstairs crying. Oh yeah. So he put it on you.

I have heard that like 20 times. That's a different issue. Oh yeah. Oh there were times early on when he'd be away and we'd be young. And it got so overwhelming. I remember her leaving the house, just got in the car and drove away for hours at a time. I was like, whoa, mom's left. Like, why is she coming back?

The trip we want to talk about disappears for 10 days. Please, let's get into that. Where were you? She didn't go on the trip. She went to Hawaii. She went to Hawaii when we took this other trip. And where did you going the trip she didn't go on the fish you went to a while that's right she went to why when we took this other trip yeah yeah and where did you go all right so Grand Canyon Frank got a good idea 70 1970 so what am I 13 I'll be 14 how you see you guys are how old it to 10 so he like

he's like again you said you thought he saw like, is a Kennedy move or something. It's just like, what should we do with my boys? And so we're going to take a 10 day river trip down the Colorado River on rafts in 1970. And he books it and my mom goes to Hawaii. I have no idea what's going on in their relationship She'll disappear for 10 days a very Joan Didion a very Joan Didion 10 days in Hawaii They might have been having some problems then no, but also she she's not comfortable in the water either She may have just didn't want to know but I think they I think the planning of the trips was the key

Yeah, and we show up and you start at a place called Lee's Ferry. And you go 280 miles down the Colorado River for 10 days on rafts. And there's no phones. There's no safety. We get there and it's kind of like we get there and we get on these rafts. Can I just jump in to say, do you remember before it started, were you excited? Yes. I didn't know what the great candy was. No, I remember a brochure and like, you know, pictures.

And you're like, wow, we can do this and the rafts. And it looked exciting. And your dad, were you guys the kind of boys who were like excited to be with your dad? Yeah. Yeah, because we didn't get to, sometimes he was away for three or four months, we would miss him. I mean, sure. Yeah, you're making us all needy. No, no. He would go away. And then when he came

back, we would punish him for being away. We would bust him. He liked to do physical things. My memory of my father, a lot of it, is out on the lawn and we're playing touch football and he's drawing the play on his shirt going okay you go Yeah, so it was like it was like he was physical he we physical things with him, you know two things one He was an only child who fetishized brotherhood. Yeah, that's true. He was Absolutely. I mean if there was any Temple for him it was fraternity and the lack of the lack of it in his life. That's number one. Number two, the important part of the story is, okay, we went to summer camp and shit

and I went on canoe trips and my father was in World War II in combat. But man, we are as far from an out-doring family as you can get with that provenance. We were not like, this was not, it was like, wow, we're going to camping? Like no one was really. So we get on these freaking rafts that are made from these Korean War. Someone took these Korean War surplus pontoon bridges and they figured out you could take five of them and you could take a piece of plywood in the middle and lash it all together and put a little outboard motor on the back of it and pack it with enough food for 10 days or enough to get you to Phantom Ranch halfway down and you could actually almost survive the rapids. Seriously, man, almost survive the rapids. Had to wear helmets and were there

helmets? No, no. Some kids had helmets. Helmets didn't happen invented by then. No, but life preserves. And man, we get out there and like I think within the first hour it's already too late and he realizes, oh my fucking God, these kids, I brought my kids and they're way too young.

The two of them are way too young. This is dangerous shit. And so there's no, I'm sorry, guide or no guide? Is it just the four of you? Yeah, it's a guide. It's a guide. It's a guide on East Coast. Yeah, two guides.

Two guys with the outboard. Two very, very knowledgeable guys because you really had to be an expert to navigate this river. At the point of reference, over the 280 miles, there are dozens and dozens of rapids. They're rated. It goes from one to 10.

It's almost cinematic. The last rapid you go through is a 10. It's called Lava Falls. But I would say half of them, I actually looked it up, half of them are over five or six. Six, the definition is danger to life and limb. So it's like, these were hardcore walls of mountain, you know, water.

Oh no man, you're... When... It was... I'm telling you man, you could... If you fell off... Oh yeah, you were in trouble. Death was... But like, he's got his kids...

This is... No insurance, God only knows. There's no way to get in touch with anybody. There was a line of sight... The rumor was there was a line of sight radio that could grab a plane and there was a rumor that Buck, the main dude, had a gun somewhere. Yeah, Buck had a gun. Some Buck has a gun.

Yeah, that'll help you when you fall in the water. We were looking for that gun. We searched for that gun. And ten days. Amazing. Ten searched for that gun. And 10 days. Amazing. 10 days we did this. Once you start, you can't stop. Of course not.

Now, all right, but so your dad clocks right away, he's made a terrible choice. Did you, as kids, did you know he'd also made a terrible choice? We loved it. We loved it. It felt like, whoa, this is heavy. This is like really wild.

No, but the first rapid, he was like, I saw it. He was like, what? And we were like, we were actually really happy because we were blissfully ignorant of what was going on. We just were having fun. It looked like a ride to us. But there were times that you were going, because look, very early on, these rapids are so big,

they actually pull over and the guys have to study. Oh yeah. They have to look at it for like an hour. And they're arguing. So you're exactly watching these adults go like, well, don't go in that puddle because it'll flip up. So you're like, whoa, this is like, they gave you the option sometimes to walk around

if you wanted to. There were some you couldn't though. No. And the variable. I felt like we were in really good hands though. I felt somehow I felt like Buck and the other guy, I felt like we were, even though it seemed dangerous, I have really happy memories of that trip.

I really do. Of course, it was very happy. Buck was like, there's no risk of drowning, I'll just blow your brains out if you go in the water. I got this gun, man. I'm not afraid to use it. Was it joyous for you, Tony? Two things.

One, there's a variable that's, the dam above Lee's Ferry so much depended on how much water they were letting out when you were in the river. So there was this constant gauge of, and the more water they let out, the safer it was. The less water they let out, the closer everything was. So there was always a debate about, oh my God, you know, the numbers are going up or down because of that. They're right.

They would get out and study these things like a chessboard. But the real thing is, look, man, I mean, as freaked out as Frank was and as non-outdoorsy as we were, you don't... I mean, I don't know what the moment was where I didn't think I was going to live forever, but I lived through my early 20s. I've been, who thinks you're going to die? Nothing can kill me. I mean really.

And we would solve and to go back to our high school, a couple kids died every year in our high school. I know that sounds weird but there was always two motorcycle accidents and a drowning and an overdose and something else. So like, man, did you ever think you were going to die when you were... Never. No. I would did you ever think you were gonna die when you were yeah No The trip it got it got the rapids

It was like a movie the rapids got bigger and bigger like the second of the trip they were getting bigger So it's just always building it was kind of like the opposite of apocalypse now We're like get off the boat as soon as you could it was the opposite of like what they told you to do It was like it was like these are gonna be heavy heavy rapids. And then really forgetting, I mean, even as a kid, you're in awe. The physical complexity, the grandeur of the Grand Canyon, and we saw every inch of it, and it has many, many, many different characters in there.

But it's so awe-inspiring, and there's no other people. I think if you go like, it's so awe inspiring and there's no other people like, I think if you go now it's all crowded. It's like going to Mount Everest or something, you know, we saw maybe one or two other boats the whole time we were there. Almost nobody. You're just like, back to primordial. You're very, I think it puts everybody on our, I think about everybody into a vaguely, you know, spiritual dimension in a subtle way. You're looking up a mile the whole time. Like it's just a mile, a mile down. Yeah. Do you feel like there was a real sense of familial accomplishment when it was over?

Yeah. Definitely. I think so. Yeah. Definitely. I think so, yeah. I mean, it does seem like a father's dream. It's a father's dream. You end up in Las Vegas. Yeah, we ended up in Lake Mead or Lake Palo.

Yeah, so for my father, there you go. Mecca, Mecca at the end of the line. I'm going to grow a beard. I'm going to spend 10 days with my boys. We survived and we end up in Vegas. Oh my God. And then how many days did you spend in Vegas? Oh grow a beard. I'm going to spend 10 days with my boys. We survived and we end up in Vegas. Oh my God. And then how many days did you spend in Vegas? Oh, a week.

Four or five. Five, yeah. He liked to spend. He was probably trying to raise money for a movie at that point. So when you have your dad, when Frank takes those three boys to Vegas, you're 10 and 13,

what do you guys do during the day? Or more importantly, what do you do during the night? They took us to Circus Circus, which was something you could, I think that was back then. They took us to some sort of family friendly. It was not family friendly yet. We went and saw Pat Boone and fell asleep in the front row. I remember that. And he commented on it.

We were really handy in hotels when our parents weren't around because we spent a lot of time in hotels when they would go out. So we would just take care of ourselves and go to game rooms and try to find other kids and just get in trouble. I mean, we dug around in the bowels of a lot of interesting hotels in our childhood. When you're on the river,

are you in tents just on the side of the river at night? No, amazingly enough, there's no tents. You're sleeping out, there's no tents just on the side of the river at night? No. Amazingly enough, there's no tents. There's no tents, and there was no rain except for one night. There was rain one night. Tony, you can tell the tent story, the infamous tent story. There's beaches. There's beautiful sandy beaches.

It's not all sheer rock wall. There's all kinds of different things. So you get to these places and they make these amazing meals at night. It was proto glamping. Yeah. Wow. And like, and so one night it's raining or going to rain. So Frank's is in freaking World War II and it's 1970.

It's only, it's not that long ago. And like I went to, I went to camp for a bunch of years and did camp crafts and everything. We have a tent. Oh my God. It was the saddest. We had a big fight. He was the most hapless. It feels like multiple fights.

It's also perhaps my father never did his laundry in his whole life. He was really hapless when it came to stuff like that. You couldn't sleep in the tent when it was done. I remember we didn't sleep in the tent. Well, wait a minute. The tent, when the tent was actually strung and we took it, I think there's a picture of it somewhere. Somewhere.

The actual, it's a little tepee like a tent. It's actually about six inches off the ground. Like that's it. That's our tent. After like an hour and a half of screaming and Ropes and move it that way and move it that way it was it was pathetic Yeah But like when you you would you'd go down the river until like four o'clock in the afternoon

And then they stop and they pull over and then you could do whatever you want so like I like to climb and and You're looking up at this this rim with all these trails going up and the guy made the mistake of saying there was some Native American ruins up there somewhere. So I wanted to go up, and this other kid decided to go with me, and I'm a pretty good climber. And we went up, it took like 45 minutes an hour. We're, I don't know, we're not up by the rim by any stretch, but we're very high. Found these Native American things, and now, I don't know how much you climb,

but going up is a lot easier than coming down. I started to come down, and this kid froze up and got stuck up there so I had to climb down it was getting dark when I got down there they all the whatever the three adults were they had to go up there with flashlights till like 8 o'clock to get this kid down they never found him. He's also skipping the part that like, about an hour into this, everyone's like, oh my God, we're missing these two kids

and nobody checked in and where are they? No one knows where they are. So there's a panic. You know, like, but it was the age of free range, man. Nobody was paying attention. No air tags on your kids. No. So when you're sitting around end of a rafting day,

campfire I'm assuming or some version of that, like what's your dad's vibe when he's got his three kids? Was he, I mean, obviously he's a writer. Was he a storyteller? Was he? Yeah, definitely. He was. He used to tell us all his stories.

He's a really good father. He was a great dad. He was a great dad. He was a great hang. Did he live long enough to see that this is what you all ended up doing? Yeah, he did. He died about, what is it, six years ago?

I've lost track. Oh, all right, so yeah, he saw the full- Five years ago. Yeah, 2015 I think he passed away. Yeah, he saw everything, no. And our mom passed away last year? She passed away last year? In August, yeah.

In August. Oh, wow, that's quite a life. Yeah, they both lived a good amount of time, but he was a great he was a great dad I mean and and and he was always there when you needed he had great always gave you great advice he would distill a problem down to like like like Moses telling you like one sentence and you go like oh Yeah, okay. That means that I should do this, you know, he was very very smart. They watch he loved he really loved the job He loved that job. Yeah

He was a. He watched. He really loved the job. He loved that job. And he loved to play. He was a writer to his core. He was writing up until a week. A week until he died, he was writing. How was he? Did he give good feedback when you started writing? Sometimes. Tony and I started doing action movies and franchises and other things. And he would always go, well, this isn't something I would ever watch. But he'd comment on that level. you know, action movies and franchises and other things. And he would always go, well, this isn't something I would ever watch. But he's commented on that level.

Yeah, I don't think the Nepo thing is what people think it is. Oh yeah, I wouldn't. I mean, it also doesn't seem like you directly followed in any way, shape or form. No, but I mean, I think it's a legit thing. I just think they'd misinterpret what the real value is. The value doesn't teach you how to write or anything. But when

you become a writer, the life makes sense. You understand the rhythm of it and all the things that make sense about it are normal to you. I think that's the big advantage. He made it look exactly like what it was, good and bad. He really made sure that we and there was a lot of bad and He made sure that we fully absorbed or at least I did He made sure that we fully absorbed the downside of he wanted to make sure that when he had his teeth kicked in You understood that that had happened Yeah, I mean look of newspapers in that house, as long as I can remember.

And my memory of growing up a lot was Frank was doing plays. And if you know anything about Broadway, which you guys do, is there's an opening night. And back then, it really, I mean, hinged dramatically on the New York Times. So I have memories of like three nights at Sardis upstairs. And everybody's going like, oh, the play went well. It's like, and somebody sneaks out and gets the fucking New York Times. And a couple of times those reviews were bad. Those were searing memories to see your father

just kind of like, you know, it's the New York Times excoriating you, for God knows what. I walked with my dad one night in like February or March, freezing cold. I was designated to take him. He had to leave the Sardis and the play was going to close the next day and it was just like ugh. And I went and walked through Times Square with him for an hour and a half, like in the

cold, never said a word, just walked. It was just literally like my mother's like, you have to go with him. Don't let him be by himself and just babysit him. And yeah, man. But that's really good parenting, I think. It's very interesting how your instinct might be to do the opposite. And I think you're totally right. Like letting kids know that it's not easy out there. How old were you when you went on that walk with him, Tony? I was probably 15 or 16 years old at that point. I do love Sardis. God, I wish someone would fix it up.

I was talking about Sardis two days ago. The whole childhood was in Sardis. He was the lord of Sardis because the Dramatist Guild was next door. And he became the president of the Dramatist Guild, which had been this stuffy organization and then they had this new, young, vibrant, hip playwright and he's like, okay, we're putting a pool table in, we're turning it into a club and he had all these grand ideas. I don't have much time, but one of his grand ideas basically started a feud with the New York Times that's's really you know

I don't know how I don't know how much was paranoia and how much was real But he's but he started a feud with with gel He he when he's president of the drama skilled The New York Times could make or break every single play and so he tried to institute a policy where the drama skilled would rent by another half a page in the New York Times and randomly let reviewers review it to counter programs so that it wouldn't just be one review. And the New York Times was actually in the beginning really sympathetic to that idea because they were uncomfortable with the power that they had accrued.

Really into the idea until the last minute and and then they went, no, and he pushed it, and then he published his correspondence with them, and the drama's still quarterly. He didn't get many reviews in New York Times after that. Aiden never got a good review after that. No. Oh, man. Matter of fact, they gave him a fucking bad,

they gave him a bad fucking review in his obit. Motherfuckers. They gave him a shit obit. They did. Really? They literally commented on his work and his freaking obit. It was like... No, I really...

It's hard not to... I try not to carry it for... But they really shit on him in the obit. And you kind of go like, wow, is it really... Is the institution that have that long of a memory? But he was that guy. That was who he was. Yeah.

Well, I mean, there's something to be said. It's almost a feather in your cap, I feel like, if a news organization decides to take a swing at you on your way out. He never back down. I've been cheated really nicely lately, so I don't really like that. Yeah, right, right, right. Yeah, you don't wanna rock the boat, man.

Yeah, he was my dad name only. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, we're gonna take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors. Support comes from Cash App. Hi, Poshy. Hey, we're gonna take a quick break and hear from some of our sponsors. Support comes from Cash App. Hi Poshy.

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Would you go visit them? Were they... No. There was only one living grandparent when we were born for Johnny and I. Okay. They were... My father... Ruth's mother, yeah.

My father's father died in his 50s. His mother died in her 50s. My father's father, unfortunately, was an alcoholic. My mother's father died when he was young. My mother's mother was alive still. But she... But she spoke very little English. She was Hungarian.

My memory is like she was in a wheelchair and she just seemed ancient from the moment I met her. Probably not true, but I don't know. Yeah, that's how I feel about dad's parents is they were just like always, they were immediately the oldest people I felt like I was ever gonna see. Right, yeah. Tony, do you feel like your parents were harder on you being the oldest? No, I think no, there was no hard.

I think the weird part of our life is that they were nothing but encouraging all the time and we did have an extraordinary amount of freedom and the monkey business that we got into of every variety was forgiven or never seen or... There were, look, the period we grew up in was a tumultuous period. I mean, honestly, I got high the first time probably in sixth or seventh grade. I mean, there was a lot of shit going on.

And Tony was ahead of us by three years. Tony was challenging my parents on every parental level you could do it. I mean really serious like calls him to school where he's going to throw him out and Tony was, Tony you were 14, you had a 17 year old girlfriend or something, I mean there was a lot of shit going on. But they dealt with it, they dealt with it I think as well as you could deal with it. And they didn't turn it into, like, severing a bond. Somehow it all stayed together, you know? It just stayed together.

Did any of you ever date an au pair? Tone, I should say. Really close. Not date. What do you mean, date? There was no date. Well, yeah. Did you ever get frisky with an au pair? Well, you got that legal definition there.

We were too going for that. Maybe Tony. Really close, really close, really close. Um, any highlights from the two months in Europe? Any standout? Oh my God. Yeah. That's the year before the, the, the, the can.

Well, just as an example of, of, of, of his extravagance, we went across, we went across on the SS United States in staterooms. We checked into the Savoy Hotel for like a week and in the Savoy Hotel, it was the same week that we landed on the moon. There was a ticker tape downstairs like telling about the moon. But I remember getting into an elevator with my dad and a white-haired guy got on the elevator and he went up three floors with us. He actually said hello to me. G the elevator the door closed my father says remember this moment you don't know who that is but that was Charlie Chaplin and I was like wow so like I was anyway but

then from there I think we went to the George Sank for a week and then we went to Italy to these like villas we had a house we had a house for a month like luxury you know but he he had another screenwriter there were two screenwriters and they were just, man, they were hitting it and like, it was really nouveau riche. I mean, they really were like, man, I got money now and let's blow it now. Exactly. Yeah. And then like, you know, I'm gonna tell you, like, by the time you get to, I mean, 75,

76, there's times where he's checking into the Beverly Hills Hotel where he doesn't have the concierge just putting him on the arm and letting him stay there until he gets a gig. I mean, he will run, he will earn and run and earn and run. And it's, you know, that's who he was. So, but not one person that we knew growing up, I can think of really, I mean, I don't know, maybe some maybe some girls and maybe Cheryl and those people in there But like nobody knew what we were doing when we went to Europe We just disappeared and when we came back we reappeared we weren't doing slide shows when you got oh my god

Yeah, I want you to know I was in Porto, Ercole We're like at Lake Como or Lake Maggiore at this incredible pool and it's like the dinners and then where were we? Porto Ercole, Macedonia? We were in Oviedo? Whatever. And then the next summer we're working, you know, I'm working as a plumber's apprentice. Johnny's working landscape.

I was in the garage. You know, I mean, you're like, we like... We worked. It was more important for us to fit in where we grew up than anything else, I think. And that's actually important. We worked. There was never any expectation that when we got out of high school that we would ever get any money for them. They never said we're not going to support you, but it was never,

it never would have occurred to us. He said it outright. He said, he goes, I'm spending your inheritance right now. I moved to New York City and I was looking at tuna fish sandwiches and like tacos for like five years. I had no money but I would never think of like hitting them up for money. That's important. We always like. Yeah, always work. I always had a job from like, I found a bank book at my mother's house after she died. Like I'm like 13 and I have like, you know, I have my bank book because I'm working like two different jobs. We always had jobs. It was always work, laboring work at the gas station or promise apprentice or laboring

work or Masons apprentice. How long were you a bartender for in New York? Tony. That's much later on. Wait a minute. When Tony was 13, he was a bartender for a guy in Florida. No, not 13. Not 13.

15. You were 14? 15. Still too young. But go ahead, where? Wait, where were you a bartender at 15? At the Rogue Lounge in Florida, New York. Okay.

Because I was already playing in a band that was playing there and the guy was blind who owned it and he thought if I was old enough to be there I could open up on Sunday mornings. So I used to go to this bar, I was 15, 16 years old and I used to open up the bar in the morning. When was the first person showing up at that bar for a drink on a Sunday morning? Man, this is gonna sound like some sort of, this is gonna sound like bullshit,

but Florida, New York, you could look it up, was the only place, there was a tattoo parlor. This is 19, this is 72, 73. There's a tattoo parlor there. It's the only place that it like for 1000 miles you could get a tattoo. There's a tattoo parlor, there's a hotel, a fleabag shit hotel, and there's the rogue lounge. And bikers used to come from Pennsylvania and Florida and all these different places. They would come up They would check into this shitty hotel and they would go to this Tattooist for days on end he had big back pieces because it would take days and days to do them They'd eat quail utes and you would run drinks tequila sunrises

Underneath through the basement under the hotel into the tattoo parlor. I mean I did that but before I was 17. Mom and dad let you do that. They knew what you were doing. They kind of knew what I was doing. Oh yeah. Mom said the one day morning you asked for a shot glass and she gave you a shot because the bar didn't have a shot glass. I was like oh my god. I mean I know that's it that really happened. It was really true. The guy was so cool in the tattoo parlor. He said, I know how old you are. He goes, at the end of the summer, all your friends are going to have tattoos because

all my friends were older. He goes, they're all going to have tattoos. And they did. Every girl had a strawberry on her ass or somebody got something. He goes, I'm not going to give you a tattoo. If you keep your mouth shut, we don't get any trouble. At the end of the summer, I'll pierce your ear. And at the end of the summer, I pierced my ear.

I had pierced ear when I was 16 years old. Yeah. Oh my God. I don't know how we lived. I don't know how we survived, but we did. I mean, I guess there's something to, you know, a writer's letting his children live their own lives. You know, it makes sense.

I don't know. I don't know how much was intentional. What do you think? I don't know. No, they were doing the best intentional. What do you think? I don't know. No, they were doing the best they could. If they knew another way, they might have done it. But I'll tell you one thing, it made you resilient. It was like things would come at you and you would fuck up and you would get hurt maybe

in some ways or get in trouble. And you'd go like, okay, that's what that's like. I know how not to get in trouble now. Or if I get in trouble, I can go through it. You know, it's like it may tough as yuck is what it does. It's good to solve your own problems. And they've let us, they gave us a lot of, a lot of lead to do that. With the help of some lawyers.

But we really, I mean, we were very, also very lucky. Like, really lucky, physically lucky. I, I at the same time, I think it probably, you're all parents, correct? Yeah. Did you parent the same way? Did you give your kids the same freedom? Fuck no. Fuck no.

No, I think culturally, there was no such thing as a play date when we were kids. Yeah, right. And when my kids were born, play date, like that was the thing. So you had to make a date with another kid. Yeah. There was nothing like that when we were kids.

But when my kids, that's just what people were doing. And I guess it goes back to what you were saying about, like when you were growing up, you were trying to fit in to the, you know, the cultural place you were at the time. And I think some, it's to some degree, you do that as parents too. Like you can't parent like it's 1970. I raised my daughter in Brentwood.

I mean, it's like, try to be reckless with your kid in Brentwood. You'll get arrested. Jesus Christ. Yeah I mean there was no framework and to be honest with you I was jealous of my son growing up. Really? Like yeah and I thought because part of the part of the problem of the way we grew up was that there was no opportunity like you couldn't there was no path to popularity that let you be good in school you know what are you doing well

like doing well in school was the kiss of death and oh yeah it was far more important for me to be part of the tribe than it was to do well so I I really and when I went to college for two years I got into BU at the last minute and I went there. But like when I got there, it was like it was the first place I'd ever been where you could like do well and be accepted. And I really liked that I dropped out of school because I was too busy. But my son was in such a my son and daughter were in such a an intelligent, rewarding,

you know, environment. I was like, there's times in my son's childhood I was like, what would my life have been like if I'd grown up this way? But you learn different things. There's stuff you learn in school and then there's stuff you learn in life. I'd be honest, I wouldn't have traded what I learned

by going to a public school and getting a good, really good public education in New York State. It was a really good education for public school, but I love what I learned. I had to learn everything myself. I had to teach myself everything. I just wouldn't even trust your son to make me a tequila sunrise, Tony. It's true.

I feel it. Yeah, right? No. Well, the last time you had a tequila sunrise. By the way, I will say it's been forever, but you said it and I was like, you know what? I feel good. You got to put on Dark Side of the Moon, get a jukebox, and have a tequila sunrise. And then watch Tequila Sunrise after it with Mel.

You know what? When I decide to get that back tattoo, I'm gonna have a tequila sunrise. There you go. I was like, God. You know, Jesus on his motorcycle. 100%. I mean, words right out of my mouth.

Dude, man. Oh my God. Well, this is, I mean, just truly fantastic to talk to the three of you. Thank you for coming prepared with the story as well. Excellent work. Obviously, it's very clear that you're two writers and an editor.

Not a lot of people think anything. Well, we normally take 12 hours to tell a story, so this one we actually had to compress everything. Do people show up with nothing? Sometimes people show up and they open by being like, we didn't really go on trips. And then Josh and I, you know, we get, we dig down. Wow. Yeah.

And then our father will be like, why are they even on? Yeah. Again, while you were talking about a supportive father, like our dad listens to every episode of this and he has a lot of notes about the guests. I think he's gonna, I think he's gonna be very fond of the Gilroy boys. Yeah.

But we have questions for you before you go. This is the speed round. You each have to answer each question. Okay, we'll go around the horn here. You can only pick one of these. Is your ideal vacation relaxing, adventurous, or educational? I don't like to take vacations

and I envy people who are working that I see. Okay, that's Dan. So I don't like them. All right. John? Adventurous, I don't like them. All right. John? Adventures. I like adventurous vacations. And Tony.

I like to relax when I go on vacation. Okay. Let's keep this order. I think it's a good one. What is your favorite means of transportation? Motorcycle. John? Airplane.

Beautiful, Tony? Bicycle. All right. Lovely. Getting a little trickier, if you could take a vacation with any family, alive or dead, real or fictional, other than your own family, what family would you like to take a trip with?

Oh my God. Go ahead, Danny, I need a minute. I wanna go to Jerusalem with Jesus and Mary. Okay. Fucking hell. That was my answer. I want to go to Jerusalem with Jesus and Mary. Okay. Fucking hell. That was my answer. He just took my answer.

Well, I mean twins. Oh my God. You're going to go with that too then, John? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jesus and Mary. Okay. Come on. And Joseph.

Oh, that's nice. Joseph never, everybody forgets about him. Yeah, I want to- Because it's awkward, let's be honest. You want to talk about an awkward dynamic. Tony? What did you- Oh, that's nice. Joseph never, everybody forgets about him. Yeah, I wanna- Cause it's awkward, let's be honest. You wanna talk about an awkward dynamic. Uh, Tony?

What did you? So you're the dad? So you're the dad. That's true. Oh God, yeah, I don't, oh my God. Yeah, I wanna go with the Allman Brothers to Six Flags over Georgia. I don't know.

That's gonna be a good- That's really good. The Allman Brothers to Six Flags over Georgia. I don't know. Dude, that's really good. The Older Brothers to Six Flags is really good. That's good. If you had to be stranded on a... This one's going to get tricky with three brothers. If you had to be stranded on a desert island with one member of your family, who would it be? Oh my God.

I would be stranded on an island with my dog Sprout. Okay, great. All right, great. Sprout makes the cut. John? I have two daughters. I can't really, how do I answer that? I just get out of there.

Get out of there. Get out of there. One person. I don't know. Living or dead or what? Yeah, you can be a family member. Oh, you can be mom or dad. I haven't seen my dad for a while I've been my dad Frank. All right

I'm gonna pick Johnny cuz he and I would have the best chance of getting off the fucking island Yeah, a lot of people think ahead. Thank you And you agree you'd be useless in that situation Oh, no, I wouldn't be useless, but I might become distracted with the trees and stuff and actually like it and not want to leave. Gotcha. Did you guys call your father Frank when he was alive? Did you call him Frank to his...

I work with my dad, so yeah, you call him Frank because it's just what you do at work. But he was dad early on. I mean, no. The kids call him Paco. Paco is what they call him. Oh, that's great. Your kids called him Paco? Yeah, is what they call him. Oh, that's great. Your kids called him Paco?

Yeah, all the grandkids did. We have this great thing with our parents, which is that when my first was born, he couldn't say grandparent and he said Ponca. And so they, to this day, Ponca, everybody thinks it's like some Eastern European word for grandfather and it's just a misspeaking, but like, so our parents are the Poncas.

That's correct. Yeah. And Seth, you often have called me Paco, and we had a grandfather that we called Frank. There you go. Wow. Yeah. What's the hometown?

What's the, what do you consider your hometown from growing up? Monroe, New York. We're Blooming Grove, South Blooming Grove, New York. We lived in Blooming Grove. We lived in Blooming Grove, yeah. Would you recommend Blooming Grove as a vacation destination? There's parts of Blooming Grove that We lived in Blooming Grove, yeah. Would you recommend Blooming Grove as a vacation destination?

There's parts of Blooming Grove that are very beautiful. They really are. It's the Hudson Valley, particularly in the fall. It's gorgeous. I think Hudson Valley is, yeah, that's a great vacation. And then, I mean, Seth has our classic- I have our last question, but you guys answered it. We always end with, have you been to the Grand Canyon?

We know the answer is yes, and the follow-up is, was it worth it? Really? Yeah, that's the last question. Every episode, we ask the guests, have you been to the Grand Canyon? We know the answer is yes. And the follow up is, was it worth it? Yeah, that's the last question. Every episode we ask the guests, have you been to the Grand Canyon? What do we win? Do we win something? Do we, no?

Well, you do. You answered the last question in the very beginning. I've never listened to the end of the podcast. That's a... Oh, that's damning. That's damning. I've also never listened to the beginning, but... So, I love the middle.

No, I'm kidding you. Wow, that's fantastic. Yeah, so well done. And then the follow-up is, was it worth it? And I feel like we know the answer to that as well. It was. It was definitely worth it. We lived through it. Yep.

I mean, I'm gonna just say it one more time, because I've been banging the drum for this show since I first saw it. Andor, you know, and again, as a Star Wars fan, when the later Star Wars stuff came out, I had this moment of like, oh, I think I've outgrown this. I think it's great for kids. I'm glad they're still making Star Wars stuff. And then Andor showed up and I was like, oh my God, this is so thrilling and exciting.

And bravo all around. Thank you. Thank you so much. This was fun. We had a good time. Bro down. Bro down. And congrats on the Knicks, Tony.

Oh my God, man. Holy cow. Who are you rooting for now? You know, I'm rooting for the Knicks. My kids are soft enough Knick fans growing up here. And by the way, New York City's better when the Knicks are winning. Come on, Knicks.

Oh yeah. But also, I went to an Indiana game this year. I think the Indiana series is gonna be just dynamite. Yeah. Well, the funny thing is going to be just dynamite. Well, the funny thing is, the Knicks and the Celtics don't actually have that much history for two teams that have been around a long time, whereas the Knicks and the Pacers, it's a palpable history. It's so exciting.

Yeah. There's some history between the Knicks and the Celtics. We have it. I mean, yeah. This is the first time we're in the light right now, I think. So yeah. All right. It's going to be exciting. I'm looking forward to it. And this was great now, I think so. Yeah. All right. It's gonna be exciting.

I'm looking forward to it. And this was great. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you, guys. Thank you. It was a lot of fun. Be well. Bye.

Take care. Bye. So long. The Gilroy bros were on a boat Down the Grand Canyon they did float Korean War pontoons, lashed and fully packed And once you start, there is no going back The guide named Buck, he had a gun. The rain came down one night to mimic their descent. But none of them could figure out the tent. Now looking back, it is so hard to comprehend the dangers this young family endured. This band of brothers on each other could depend And Frank was psyched for Vegas at the end Music