Fantasy Football Daily - 2021 NFL Draft Chat with Mike Renner

Episode Date: April 26, 2021

Scott Barrett (@ScottBarrettDFB) is joined by PFF's Mike Renner (@PFF_Mike) to discuss draft guides, rookies, and the 2021 NFL Draft. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's time for the Fantasy Points podcast brought to you by FantasyPoints.com. Top level fantasy football and NFL betting analysis from every perspective and angle, from numbers to the film room with a single goal to help you score more fantasy points. Ladies and gentlemen, you are listening to the Fantasy Points podcast. I'm your host, Scott Barrett. Today we're going to be continuing our theme of, you know, breaking down the NFL draft class, primarily focusing on the quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers, and tight ends. Those are the fantasy eligible positions. That's our focus. And we have

a great guest on today. I'm a good buddy, old coworker. You may remember him from the Bachelor, or just, you know, all of the good stuff he does over at PFF. He's basically, you know, the genius, the mastermind behind all of their draft-related content. tent, the great draft guide you have over there. That's, that's Mike Renner. Rinner. How's it going, man? Going great, Scott.

It's been way too long, my man, way too long. It's been, it's been, it's been, like you said, yeah, way too long. And I've been dying to ask you this question. It's a question I've been asking all my recent guests, Renner. What's your ball hair situation looking like? Clean. It's almost summer. I keep it tight.

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Manscape is trusted by over 2 million men worldwide. We have an exclusive offer for my listeners. That's 20% off plus free shipping with the code FP2021 at Manscape.com. Renner, man, so excited to talk ball with you. First question. Now that we got the ball hair thing out of the way. I was going to say last time we last time I saw you, some girl told us she banged Greg Oden and now we're talking about ball hair.

Something that always comes back around to it. Yeah. You know, that's what we do on this podcast, man. You know, all right. Getting serious. You have Justin Fields, number three on the official PFF, Big Board, just came out a few days ago. Trey Lance number 10, Mack Jones, number 14. how egregious of a mistake would it be for San Francisco to take Mac Jones over Justin Fields

at the 103? I struggle to call it egregious mistake. We're still projecting forward for these guys and what they could be. And obviously, you're the play caller. It's what you feel comfortable with, Calhian Hand there absolutely. But to me, you're chasing the guy that can give you years. on year, on year, high level play, no matter what's surrounding him. To me, that can be Justin Fields.

I think Mack Jones is going to be very dependent on situation, on basically offensive line, the receivers that he has there. And yeah, you have a very good situation right now in San Francisco. And like, you could win a Super Bowl with Mack Jones because if he's playing, you know, top 12 to 15 quarterback in the NFL range on a rookie deal, that's very valuable. But I just don't think he's going above and beyond. and like all these knocks on Justin Fields are like, oh,

is processing, oh, you know, the blitz. And it's like, no one's talking shit about his accuracy. No one's talking shit about his arm strength. How many quarterbacks are we, say, how many quarterbacks in like NFL history have a can't for an arm and are accurate, one of the most out of quarterbacks college football and are then suck in the NFL? It's like, how do you, how does that, how does that, how does that, how does that, how does that, how does that fathom? Like, I can't, I can't see a scenario where that's the case. And so when, and it's not even like he's putting the ball in harm's way either, like,

decision making in terms of like throwing bad picks. That's not on his tape either. So there's really the knocks are kind of, in my opinion, getting well overblown to where, man, like it would be a mistake. I struggle to call it super egregious, but in my opinion, it would be a mistake to pass on fields. Yeah. When you hear specifically those two quarterbacks brought up, it's like, oh, well, Matt Jones, his, his floor is so high.

and then Justin Fields, oh, his ceiling is just, you know, drool-inducing. How would you, you know, project those guys if you could? I'm like, I mean, Mac Jones, the talk is all about his floor. I mean, is his floor already better than even Jimmy Garoppolo? No, I don't think it necessarily is. And it's because we haven't seen him do anything like what he's going to do in the NFL. It is, I think, the biggest issue I see on Mac Jones's tape. like he's maneuvering these pockets that are just unrealistic consistently that you're never going to see in the league.

Like he is he can go, you can slide any which way and he has space. And I think that's the biggest thing I worry about is that this guy's just never seen pressure. Like he sees blitzes and like carves up blitzes, sure. But he's never seen real pressure from like a four-man rush at any point in time in his Alabama. of career. And that's just if you're not, if you just have that confidence, you can't simulate what it feels like to not have that confidence in your offensive line. And so I do worry about that. And it's like, yeah, his accuracy numbers are great, but it's also like anyone can hit the receivers he's hitting on about two thirds of his throws. Like they are not difficult throws that he's having to

make a vast majority of the time. And when you're asses, when you see him make difficult throws, it's like, I don't think it's anything special. And that's why you go down and I go back to the senior ball where it's a very controlled environment. I used to evaluate him. You evaluate Kalamand there and what they did. You have a hard time distinguishing between the two. It's like, well, would no one separate themselves above the other?

And it's like, if you can't separate yourself, you know, cerebrally in an environment like that and you're with an accuracy perspective, an environment like that, I'm not sure that's going to then, you know, once you get to the NFL, you're going to be. separating yourself either. You just brought up the senior ball. So you were there, you were in attendance? No, we just get the All-22 from all the practices. Okay.

All right. What, you watched the All-22? Yeah, yeah. All right. So were there any running backs, wide receivers, or tight ends who really stood out to you this year at the Senior Bowl? Yeah, there were two guys. And so running backs at the Senior Bowl is, you can't tell shit.

They don't, like, they don't get tackled in the practices. You're not really, that's like an impossible. Val. Although actually I will bring up one guy who looked good as a receiver. But the wide receivers, the guys who really stood out to me, Josh Palmer from Tennessee, the highest grade, highest win rate and the one-on-ones of any guy who lined up on the outside primarily. Gave me somewhat Tara McLaren vibes. Now he's not Terry McLaren athletically, but just like the way that he was so much better on a full route tree than expected, considering like he goes at Tennessee what he's running there.

There's a lot of vertical stuff. And he was just good at getting off the line of scrimmage, has good size. So he pressed me. And then Kay Johnson from South Dakota State, who admittedly, I hadn't watched it down of them heading into there. But he, that guy just accelerates off the line of scrimmage. I'm not sure what he actually ran as pro date. But he has that sort of acceleration and gets on guys.

And then it's an undersized wide receiver, probably is more of a slot type, but then played through contact super well, which you're going to have to do to play a slot full time in the NFL. So I thought those two guys really stood out. out at the wide-serie position. Tight end. I didn't think anyone really separated themselves. But then a running back I thought was good.

It was Chris Evans from Michigan. I thought he looked good as a receiver. It was really surprised, obviously. He barely even played at Michigan. But, you know, me being a Notre Dame fan, I'll talk shit and say maybe Michigan's coach staff just didn't know what the hell they were doing. So it wouldn't be the first time.

But, no, he's a interesting dude. Tested out really well athletically. and like has very natural hands and receiving ability to that. I was like, whoa, this guy could actually, you'll be like a three-down guy. Yeah, former five-star recruit, I think a 95th percentile in Spork score, which is my catch-all athleticism stat. Let's stay on the running back position,

the most valuable position in the NFL. You have Giovante RB1, 12 spots. over the next closest running back at number 53. Is this just you saying running backs don't matter? Or do you really just not like this class very much? I don't like that. So it's three guys and then it's kind of like, I don't really love the rest.

I like those top three. And it's kind of a picker poison in the top three. I think Devante is just the most well-rounded of the bunch in that any sort of role you want to play. I think he can execute. He's got a little bit of speed. Definitely. got some juice to burst through the hole, has ridiculous balance.

Like that guy's going to break tackles at the NFL left and right. And then I thought was good as a route runner. Hands are still working progress, but I think you can get there in that regard. So, yeah, he's, I just think the best all-around guy, whereas ETSN, home run threat, can't beat him. That speed, the acceleration is different. Najee Harris, powerback between the tackles, goal line does that in the sleep, but I just don't see. acceleration in the open field. I think his tackle breaking ability will take a hit in the NFL compared to what he was in college when he's, you know, the 23 year old playing with 19 year olds.

Yeah. So it's interesting to hear you call Javante the most well-rounded back in this class. I get why you like him. I get why PFF likes him. The best mistackles force per touch number of any running back since you guys have been grading college prospects in 2014. He did that in 2020. I think also by yards after contact per attempt. It was a top three season, just absolutely absurd. But again, you said well-rounded. And I concede to the running backs don't matter, crowd, that yes, the running back position is devalued and should be devalued. But I think they underrate the importance of specifically past catching running backs like an Alvin Kamara, Christian McCaffrey. I think there they really do matter. You see, you know, the best

offenses, the best offensive minds and football really going out of their way to target running backs, Bill Belichick, Sean Payton, Andy Reid, et cetera, et cetera. And again, he said Javante, most well rounded back in the class, but he didn't see a lot of targets, a lot of catches, a lot of receiving production. I guess because Michael Carter was there, I don't remember your comp, I think it was Gio Bernard. So when you talk about Javentte's past catching upside and how that compares to A. Najee Harris or Travis Etienne. So that is the thing is like when he ran routes, I thought he got open better than those other two. Like, Najee Harris has very good ball skills, but probably the best ball skills of any of the running backs in this class.

Like he can make catches outside his frame, but he's also not super sudden. I mean, he's 230. He's not going to, you know, shake a linebacker and get open on the Texas route. Like I think Javante, when he did that, you saw him fully capable. ETN, I'll give him that too. Like ETN really improved his receiving ability of course of his career, made a point of doing it. and like got targeted on some more vertical routes and can bring that to the table. Actually, I think he led college football all running backs and receiving yards last year, E.

So, like, it actually was featured in that regard and did well. But I just think Javante, like, I was talking about well-rounded physical skill set in that, like, the other two are kind of one trick in what they do, like speed ETN, power for Naji. Whereas Javte can win with like any which way he wants to beat you. he probably can to make a guy miss. So do you think, you know, Naji or Etienne are more landing spot dependent where it really matters whether it's an inside zone or outside zone scheme? Yeah, I think so. I think those guys are going to be a little more, especially ETIN.

I think he's definitely going to be landing spot dependent. Like that guy has to be thrown out in space to get his max production. So if you're going to a place where, gosh, where would someone that just really doesn't out with Tampa Bay? New England doesn't really utilize their running backs, like in terms of run concepts, quite like that. I try to think we're, whatever, but like I do think ETN could, has very high sort of, like I said,

landing spot dependence, almost similar to like CJ Spiller from back in the day, where it was just like one year could be awesome. And then one year it's like, oh, shit, what happened to? It's a good point. So from a fantasy perspective, all we really care about is like Bell Cowher bust. We want every down running backs who are targeted heavily in the passing game. So just sticking with those three running backs, Najee Harris,

do you view him as an every down belkow? I know he's gotten comps to Matt Forte and Stephen Jackson. Yeah, 100%. That's his selling point is you're going to give him every touch. You give to your running back and feel completely fine doing so. We know Mike Tomlin wants that in a running back, and it seems like that's the guy they've locked on to. And it's not hard.

hard to see why. Travis Etienne, though, you know, talent evaluators are kind of all over the place, and then they'll cite stats, like, you know, he only had 18 carries twice, whatever, but like, okay, those were like the two only games, Clemson wasn't leading by 21 points in the third quarter. Do you think Etienne is a Belcow? Like you said, he led college football running backs in receiving yards last year. I do. I also think you will be. Now, to the degree that you would utilize Najee Harris, probably not. But I think he even made a point of it himself of wanting to be that. And that's why he got up to like 215 at his pro day,

even though maybe it was Karen's a bad way. And I think he wants to be the every down guy in an offense. Yeah, he had a consensus round two grade by the GM advisory committee and decided to stay back in school. He was like, I'm not leaving for no second round grade. And the one thing they told him he needed to work on was you need to be better in the past. in game and, you know, he was phenomenal last year. So clearly that all that stuff's important to him. And Javante, like you said, you think he can be or you think he should be. He has that untapped potential. I think he can be. I think like as a, like I said, as a route runner, he's already there.

Like he gets open. He just has some drops on tape. Like it doesn't have quite the sort of, I guess the prowess, the receipt, like the hands at this point. But again, ETIN didn't two years. years ago either. So it's something that just like reps. Right. And Giovante is a full year younger than Travis Etienne, who's a full year younger than Najee Harris. So so definitely some untapped potential there. Another running back I think has untapped potential. And you might disagree is Kenneth Gainwell. He's your RB9. This is a, you know, a guy who was a quarterback in high school, didn't really play his true freshman season. The next year, he's their bell cow. He's. He's their bell cow. He's. he's, you know, breaking all sorts of records.

He's pushing Antonio Gibson to wide receiver. And then we don't see him last year. He opted out. And you have to think, all right, so it's a one year sample. But he was awesome in that one year. And, you know, his only one year being a full-time running back. Ken, is there more to his game? And then Khalil Herbert is your RB6, which is really low if you're Chris Sims,

really high if you're anyone in the dynasty community. So what do you tell me what's separated? those two running backs for you and your rankings? To me, it's the size aspect. Gainwell just is not going to run with power. And so you're not going to give that guy between the tackles concepts. You're not going to have him doing that in your offense. So I think he'll be throwing the ball a good deal,

but I just don't think you'll ever going to see 25 rushes, 20 plus rushes for a guy like that. Herber, on the other hand, I mean, only, I want to say 12, as pro day, but 5-9, 212. It's like, that's a thick 2-12. It's still a very good athlete. And just like the past two years, his tape is excellent. I think he averaged over eight yards for carry over the last two years.

And, yeah, it's coming at Kansas and Virginia Tech, but it's like sometimes, like, it's not really, it's tough to fake eight yards of carry in the college football. Like, he was getting the job done, also doing it as a returner as well. I had a return touchdown, I believe this past year, maybe got called back. But real speed, I think he ran a four or five flat at his pro day and one cut type of explosive dude that the only like knock on him is that he's old at this point.

I really only had the one one and a half years. So my next question on this list. Where did Sims have them though? Did Sims have him super high? Oh, I think he has him RB3. Man, that guy. Love it. Okay.

Next question is apparently not a question. question. I'm just reading it off. It just says block out indeterminate amount of time to spend gushing over Kyle Pitts. Oh, I'm glad. Gladly, man, I'll just give a spiel. He's fucking, the guy is 20 years old. That's the craziest thing to me. It's 20. And like, I would get people at the beginning of last year were like, oh, you know, he's a wide receiver, not a tight end. And I'm like, how, like, do you realize what most 19 and 20 year olds look like? like you can gain muscle at that age when your frame looks like Kyle Pitts has does when you have the biggest fucking wingspan of any tight end measured ever you can get bigger and he's still going to get

bigger and it's like George Kittle when he was 20 years old weighed 200 and like 25 pounds he was list at I was so this guy's way ahead of the curve uh he really is just a different breed than any guy we've seen ever at tight end mil kiper said that too yeah so I'm in full agreement my my hot take I tweeted out in, I think January or December was he's going to be in the Hall of Fame and I'm not allowed to talk about him without a paywall from this point on. We'll give myself a pass with this podcast. But yeah, just absolutely in love. You watch the tape. You see him making Megatron catches. You see the lateral agility. You see him being uncoverable, undefendable. Just, just, you know, put legit round one cornerbacks on him. And he'll be. He'll be able to be

find a way to win. Even a perfect rep from, I think it was J.C. Horn, you know, squeezing him to the boundary, he still just turns around in the blink of an eye, jumps up, three feet higher than the corner and comes away with it. He can shake you out of your shoes. You can go up over the middle. Just, oh, my God. My favorite thing to watch him, and this is going to sound super weird. And it's like a nerdy draft guy thing to say. But it's like, so watch him when he's in a three point stance and just coming off the line of scrimmage and then watch literally any other tight end in college football. And the way he just pops, like, and then glides out of a stance like three yards in like two steps. And you're just like, holy shit. Like guys don't, guys don't move like

that. Guys are stiff at six foot five, 250 pounds. It's tough to get, it's tough to get moving at that size. And he just starts flying from the snap. And it's, he is really special dude. Yeah, the best yards for route run season and PFF colleges database, the best age-adjusted yards per game season by any college tight end, I think ever, I'm pretty sure ever. The second most athletic tight end since 2000 behind only Vernon Davis, and it was kind of close. He's just like such a supernatural freak of nature. You had a great take that I actually included in one of my articles.

is you said if he's a wide receiver, he's still an easy round one pick. Our good buddy, mutual friend, former coworker, Brett Whitefield came on this podcast, said, if he's a wide receiver, he might still be the best wide receiver in this class. Yeah, he'd be like he'd be in that tier of Devante Smith, Jan Waddle, Jamar Chase. And that's what it takes, though. It's like, that's why there's only three tight ends in the NFL, because there's only three tight ends that can be cornerbacks. like there's really only three tight ends that could serviceably go out wide and still be cornerbacks

because if you can't do that well on a third down they play man coverage and a cornerback comes and guards you and you're not a tight end anymore like you're not adding to your passing offense anymore and that's why like teams are going the way of more slot receivers instead of tight ends because you need more weapons in the passing game and so to to be that impact guy you better be able to beat cornerbacks and CalPits. Well, we've seen it a ton ready on the tape. So you feel good about that. Yeah.

So what does that do to an offense? Like what is that added dimension when you have a tight end who can line up at wide receiver beat NFL cornerbacks can line up in line in the slot? What is what is that? We see it with Kansas City where, you know, how do you cover Tyreek and Kelsey? And it's so what does that mean from an X as a nose standpoint? It's so valuable. It is honestly, like I, the more I think about it,

the more I think it's actually more valuable than just like having Julio Jones, having that like one guy on the outside. It's like I stays in the outside and you can, you know, roll a safety and effectively somewhat neutralized. The tight end that can do that, you can get him, you can get him on a linebacker. Like he's,

he can beat a cornerback if that's what you want him on. But majority of time he's going to be on a linebacker. going to be on a safety. It's going to be on a slot cornerback. And that's game over. That's mismatch city. That's far more of a mismatch than Julio Jones against any, you know, outside cornerback. So it really is just, it's, there's a reason why, you know, San Francisco's offense, Kansas City's offense, Derek Carr having career years with when he gets that guy who

is a dynamic receiving threat at the tight-name position. Yeah, that was the argument I made. Your coworkers at PFF said like, tight end is one of the least valuable positions in football. And my argument was, okay, on the whole, maybe I could see how the numbers bear that out. But if you just look at the top three, let's say, or the top five at each position, then tight end is going to be one of the most valuable positions. I thought, you know, Rob Grancowski in his prime was more valuable than any wide receiver. Especially you factor in the blocking, you know, Cronk and Kittle both.

Pitz, do you have any concerns with his blocking? I mean, I don't think it's that important just because of what we said with him as a receiver. But no, again, because, well, I mean, he's not going to be not grok. Like, we're realistic expectations. That's not always going to be. But again, 20 years old, you've seen massive year on your improvement more than willing, like sticks his nose in it. And then again, he's got like the traits.

Like he's got the biggest wingspan. He has the size and the arm length to be good, like be a good run blocker. And all you need to do is have defenses respect you in the run as a run blocker to provide that sort of value. Yeah. And for fantasy, that's really important. So like a Darren Waller and Travis Kelsey basically wide receivers masquerading as tight ends, that's more valuable than being the A plus blocker, Grankowski and Kidilar.

They're lined up in line more often. They're blocking more often. And Pitts definitely profiles as, you know, clearly we're putting him into Jamar Chase. Jalen Waddled here as more of that wide receiver masquerading as a tight end. Are there any other tight ends who kind of move the needle for you, get you excited at all or just, just no? Not really. Fryer most interesting, but he's far more of a situationally based tight end.

I think Tommy Trembal can be like a Noah fan in an offense with his skill set. And he will get, depending on landing spot, if he goes to like, I'm trying to think like the Jets, teams of the Shanahan tree, I think he can be productive because of his versatility. Like he's going to be used as a fullback. He's going to be used as inline blocker. He's going to be used all over. And then he's got four, six speed and can actually, you know, those drag routes, those overs. Like, he'll be thrown to the ball a lot on that. So I do think if he goes to the right situation, he, I think he can produce. Oh, I like that. He's, he's not really on a lot of fantasy people's radar. He never had 20 catches in a single season, but, you know,

Lanzeerline loves him, talks about his past catching upside. So that's good to hear. And like the thing about him is like when you're not, uh, ready to block at the NFL, then you don't see the field. So like Brevin Jordan, Miami tight end, obviously more accomplished receiver in college, but I don't think he sees the field because I don't think he's ready to as a blocker. You're just not going to put him out there. Unfortunately, like year one, Tommy Trembal he's going to. Like he was the highest, had the highest run blocking grade in college football last year, it is a plus in that regard. So he'll see the field. He'll be on the field wherever he does go year one. And he's guys young, too, only 20 years old. That's an absolutely great

point. Guys, move Tommy Trembl up your board, especially if you're in a tight end premium league. So I'm going to ask you the question I've been asking a lot of my guests who are smarter than me. Two-part question. That's why you're asking me. This wide receiver class profiles to me as, a special one, but also a fairly unique one. There's a high, there's a number of highly regarded wide receivers with potential red flags. Devonta Smith, the weight BMI didn't participate in his pro day. Ron Dale Moore, the height, two to at well, the weight and the BMI. So, so how do you think the NFL is viewing these prospects? How are you viewing these prospects? Are these legitimate

concerns? Why and why not? They are. I mean, size matters. It'll matter more in the NFL. then it does in college. Like college corners roll in like 180, 185, typically 190, like a 200 pound college corner is massive by college standards. 200 pound NFL corners, that's the standard pretty much. If you're not in the 190s, you're really, you're not playing outside corner in the NFL.

So it does matter. The physicality will show up more. I do think NFL teams are getting far better at utilizing. So there's just like a ton of slot undersized type of guys featuring them in versatile roles where they're not just going one v1 on the outside. Everyone's running three wide, you know, 11 personnel, the vast majority of the time. So these guys are getting far more run in favorable situations or without just having to, like I said, beat press coverage. So on one hand, it's like some of these guys are going to be full school.

Some of these guys are going to look better in college than they did. in the NFL. But I do still think they'll go fairly highly, especially like Devante and Jalen. They'll go fairly highly because teams know that speed route running ability, it's playing now more than ever at the receiver position. You don't necessarily need. You don't necessarily need to be 6.3, 220, 215 anymore to really be, you know, a true thousand yard receiver in an offense.

I think you just kind of touched on one of the, or my follow up point. which is that, yeah, this class is great, but it's also a lot of slot predominant wide receivers in this class. Waddle, Tony, Elijah, Atwell, Amari, Rondale, Amman Ra. You know, we can kind of bicker on what is Elijah's upside outside. But I think for the most part, it's a great class, but a lot of slots or guys who at least were in the slot in college. And, you know, that makes it a trickier e-vail just because, you know,

the slot corners in college look a lot different than slot corner. in the NFL, for instance. But what do you take this to mean? Does this complicate your evaluation? Are you pushing guys down? I know you have Rashad Bateman higher than Elijah. And one thing, Elijah, you know, predominant slot, whereas, you know, Bateman led the entire class in yards per route run from the outside.

So how important is that? How much does that matter and why? It still matters because you still got to see the field. Like there's still our times where you got two wide receiver sets. and if Elijah Moore, if they don't feel, if they think he's just a slot, he's not going to be on the field.

And so if you're not in the field, you're not bringing value to the table. So I do still, you got to lean towards the guys who have shown it on the outside. And now I think Elijah Moore can. That's why I'm probably higher on him than, like the consensus boards were,

I think it's a consensus board, and he's 22nd on the PFF draft board. Is because I think he can do it, but it's like, The size profile, it's rare guys in that mold. You got like Tyreek Hill, Tyler Lockett, Manuel Sanders, Brandon Cook. It's about like you're, that's about it for guys in that sort of size profile that are really every down playing on the outside type of wide receiver. So it is rare, but only a handful of guys can do it.

And to do it, you've got to be a special athlete, which Elijah is. But definitely putting those guys above guys like Rondale Moore, who 5-7's not holding up on the outside. I don't really care who you are. Cadarious Tony, who just as a route runner was not, didn't do anything that was, you know, wouldn't necessarily translate immediately to the outside. So definitely covering those guys higher. That makes sense. For fantasy, you know, it's, it's trickier because we do know the NFL devalues slot wide receivers. So they're probably not going to get drafted as highly, but, but just in terms of like production, especially PPR production, it might not matter as much.

Elijah Moore to me profiles, for instance, as a PPR cheat coach in terms of catching the ball, 10.3 catches per game last year. Then he also led the class in deep receiving yards per game. He has that speed where he can bring a vertical element like a Tyler Lockett, like an early career, Ty Hilton. So maybe not too worried about that, but I could see that influencing draft capital. Mike, you called Jamar Chase, the wide receiver one, back in

February. That's still true for you guys today. But you have Devontas Smith and then Waddle ranked directly behind him, 6, 7, 8 in your big board. How close is it between them? Is it, like you said, just that one big tier or, you know, Jamar Chase is the next AJ Green, Julio Jones? It's super close. Chase just feel the most confident with his basically physical profile. The other two, it's like, let's Devante's 6'1-66, Gianwada, 510, 183. That's, it's unique. You know, that's not, that's not what the guys putting up consistent 1,200 yards seasons look like. They look like Jamar Chase. They don't look like to 5 Smith, John Waddle. So that's really all it is at this point, is the physical profile. Just in terms

of on-field production, they're splitting hairs. They were, they were all absurd. Like Waddle, on a per opportunity basis is like one of the best cultural history, you know, just in terms of like how much you produced, given how often he was on the football field, was far and away led the class in yards per route run by like a half yard. So. Right. But at the same time, I mean, he was basically their second string wide receiver. He was, he was playing behind Henry Ruggs, Jerry Judy. Is that a concern? Um, a little. I think it's more because they always saw him as the slot in that offense. And I think that's going to be primarily his role in the NFL. And it's like Jerry Judy was,

a fucking damn good receiver is Jerry Judy is the, was the slot there before him. And so that's who is, it wasn't like he was competing for Henry Ruggs for playing time he was competing with Jerry Judy. And it's like, there's no shame and not being able to usurp Jerry Judy. Right. And just to remind everyone,

Jerry Judy absolutely love him. He is going to be one of our must draft players this year. Greg Kassel last year said he was far and away the best wide receiver in the class and it was a loaded class. Compt him to OBJ and Antonio Brown. You know, maybe playing out a position with KJ Hamler on the Sot, pushing him outside, you know, quarterback didn't really do him any favors there.

But, you know, we love some Jerry Judy. All right. So I'm going to ask the question that everyone wants me to ask, which is just, you know, who are some of your favorite sleepers in this class? You brought up Palmer, you brought up K. Johnson. Who are some guys who, you know, Dynasty Twitter might not be on. but you think, hey, they could sneak into round three, you know, day two and, and, you know, there's, there's a lot to like with their game. Oh, that one's tough.

I don't have any great ones this year. Yeah, you, you had Deonté Johnson, which was an all-time great one. I don't got any Deontay Johnson's this year. I'm trying to think of who I would even, like, Palmer's the one who I'm like, I think he goes in the third round. I think he goes higher than people expect, you know, fewer than 500 yards in his career high season, but I still think he goes fairly highly. gosh, I'm trying to think even after that.

There's no one. Darder or Dax Milney? Yeah, Jail and Darden and Dax Milne are both guys. I'm higher on, but not as high as like Deontay Johnson, though, even still. Like, Deontay, I thought could win on the outside. Darden's going to be a slot receiver in the NFL. He is dynamic as hell. Like his pro day test is awesome.

I think he put up an absurd cone and shuttle. Like he's a, he's just a skinnier version of Rondale Moore, basically. like in terms of just movement skills they're very similar. Rondell's just jacked as hell comparatively. But yeah, I think Darden's going to be like a fourth rounder that he'll get touches as like a gadget player. If he can get something in the right role, he can get like a Cole Hardman type touches. Here's a cool stat for Jalen Darden fans. Last year he averaged 2.11 receiving touchdowns per game.

That's the most by any FBS wide receiver since at least 2,000. the top six list, Stedman Bailey, Devante Adams, Devontas Smith, Larry Fitzgerald, Michael Crabtree. Don't really love them, but I mean, if you like him, I'm going to push them up my board. Usually kind of just fade most of the small school wide receivers. But there are some good ones, like you said, Kay Johnson, Dwayne Eskridge. All right. We're a little short on time because I know you have to run. And then once this podcast ends, I want to work you for sources.

So we'll go right to the listener questions from C Sports Bros. Who is your daddy and what does he do? I think that guy listens to the PFF podcast where I always, I ask my dad about, so my dad's a Northcake surgeon. And that's, so that's what he does. And I ask him anytime there's like an injury guy comes up, he gives me the full lowdown on what it all means. And so I always bring him up.

And it's a running joke now that I always bring him. up. That's great. All right. I have one for you. What is your all-time favorite pickup line? And then because you're such a beautiful man, was it, was it a pickup line you said or one that a supermodel said to you? So I actually, I met one of my girlfriends to DM me on Twitter, or on Instagram, excuse me. That, that, so I have gotten pickup line said to me. I honestly, I don't use pickup lines. If you use pickup lines, it's just like, It's when you look like Mike renner, you don't need to use pickup lines. I was going to say what I, every single time, this is going to sound bad.

I just say hi, I'm Mike. You can walk up someone say hi, I'm like, it works. It works for me. You're such an asshole. I know. It does. Yeah, I'm going to, I'll have to try that one day. Hi, hi, hi, I'm Mike.

Go for it. Just kidding. I have a girlfriend who listens to all my shows. All right. Well, man, thank you so much. This was absolutely awesome. Awesome. Appreciate you coming on. Maybe we'll get you on again after the draft or, you know, deeper into the offseason. And now I'm going to try and work you for sources. So we're going to

stop recording. Oh, Mike, I always forget to do this. Where can the people find you? What do you want to plug? Oh, you can find me on Twitter at PFF underscore Mike. Obviously, go check out a draft guide. I highly recommend it. I wrote them. So I obviously think they're great. But if you go, any subscription, gets one at PFF. If you use code draft 30, get 30% off. And then we're going to have a draft show, draft night, streaming, I mean, all three days of the draft, streaming on our website, on Yahoo, actually, and on our Twitter and YouTube, you can find any of those places. And like I said, all three days, full coverage. We'll see if I fall asleep by day three. I might, I might have to take some uppers at some point,

but we'll see. What is your life like? Have you, have you just, been watching tape for 14 hours a day for the past six months? Well, thankfully, once the guide ended, I was kind of like, it's kind of been chill after that. So like 300 guys takes a but ton of time to get through. And so those were more of grinds back like a month ago. I was grinding honestly more than I am now in terms of just like how long I was working each day. But now it's just like the content, just talking about these guys 24-7 on radios and podcasts and whatnot. Love it. All right. Thanks again, Mike.

Thanks for tuning in to this edition of the Fantasy Points Podcast. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review on your favorite platform. And come join the roster at FantasyPoint.com.