Fantasy Football Daily - 2021 Rookie Discussion with Ray Garvin

Episode Date: January 28, 2021

Scott Barrett (@ScottBarrettDFB) and Wes Huber (@WesHuberNFL) welcome in Ray Garvin (@RayGQue) of Destination Devy to talk about the 2021 rookie class, ranking their favorite rookies at each position. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's time to the Fantasy Points podcast brought to you by FantasyPoint.com. Top level fantasy football and NFL betting analysis from every perspective and angle. From numbers to the film room with a single goal to help you score more fantasy points. Ladies and gentlemen, FantasyPoint.com. I'm Scott Barrett. I'm your host this lovely evening. The NFL season, not yet over. still got the Super Bowl, you know, another week away.

The fantasy season ended for most of you, week 16. I'm a big DFS guy. So for me, it kind of just ended last week. No one plays the Super Bowl slate. It sucks. And the 2021 fantasy season literally just started maybe seven days ago, eight days ago. Best ball drafts are live on FFPC.

Dynasty startup drafts year-round. Those are happening. Those exist. I'm going to have actual rookie drafts well before the NFL draft, probably weeks, maybe just a month away. So exciting times, you know, there really is no off-season for fantasy analysts because things like best ball and dynasty leagues exist. And right now, I'm back to work.

I have a best ball article dropping tomorrow. we just finalized our best ball ranks. And then I'm going to have a big best ball Bible primer strategy guide coming out. It's going to be massive, but it's really all you need to know to play bestball and profit massively. Multiple seasons. I've drafted over 100 teams. I talked to Mike Beers, one of my best friends. Aaron H. the legend.

Real one knows if you don't, you don't. and you're missing out, but really think I'm, that best ball is a specialty for me and I'm excited to put this content out. And a big cheat code for profiting in best ball is hitting on the right rookies because you see this time and time again. I was drafting Kareem Hunt in round 18 in January, February, March. And then he gets drafted by the chiefs. His, his 80-piece sky Rockets to the sixth round, seventh round. And then Spencer Ware went, when got injured, and he jumps even more to the third round, the second round. But I just get a windfall of profits because I was on Kareem Hunt early on. Brandon, Iyuk was one of those guys, 18th round last year, drafting in January,

February. So rookies are key to best ball. And they're key to my project immediately after bestball, which is when I run my prospect model. I don't think I'm the best mathematical model guy. I've never said that. But I do think I have the access to the best data, the biggest treasure trove of data going back multiple seasons. I've spent so much time with these numbers, this data to know what's important, what's valuable, what's not. So I feel amazing about my model. And that's all dynasty. That's that's all rookie draft. But right now, in this, where we are right now, I'm so far behind on, on rookie prospects. I have to talk to all my PFF buddies. I have to talk to, to Wes, you know, Danny Kelly, other big minds in this industry.

I have to watch the tape. I have to do my models. I have to, you know, hear what Greg Cassell saying. I have to, you know, all that stuff. Right now, all I have is, you know, step one, haven't even watched the tape, haven't even, you know, started my model. All I've done is I've collected. I've a list of like the top, you know, rankings from the big name, you know, talking heads. They're mock drafts, you know, the Danny Kelly's of the world, the Mike Renner's of the world, Daniel Jeremiah, you know, Steve Palazola, Dane Bruegler, Mel Kiper. And I just take that and spit it out as consensus expert rankings. And that's my starting point with where I have these rookies and where I'm taking them

in best ball drafts that again are happening today. They're happening tomorrow. I'm in some bestball drafts. This is just like a long monologue. It's not just me with you. You know, like I said, I'm way behind our research, which is why I bought in the big guns. We got Ray GQ. If you don't know, Ray GQ on Twitter, you are missing out. This is the number one Debbie guy, super entertaining account, sharp guy, not afraid to give out the bold, the bold takes, not afraid to die in a hill if he needs to die in a hill. And we got my guy, Wes Huber, who's just a week away from starting a full-time job here at fantasypoints.com,

being our, you know, dynasties are, our devies are. What did he do at PFF for a number of years? He was locked in a basement, grinding tape, just telling you, you know, who's the highest-graded running back in the Power Five? who's the smoothest route runner in the Big Ten, breaking down college tape. So this guy is, you know, helped with the PFF draft guide. I think you're a Bolitnikov voter. Is that true as well, Wes? That's right.

I also do the Long Snapper Award. Damn. So how is that for credentials? So we got the goods today. I'm excited. Ray, how are you doing? It's such a pleasure to have you. you on. Scott, I appreciate you, man. I'm glad to be here, man, big fan of yours. So to be here

talking with you, man, you are one of the goats in the industry, man. I know you may not think it or you probably do. You probably do know it, man. But it feels good to be here to talk with y'all tonight. I'm actually watching my AMC stock. So I'm hoping while we're on the show, AMC Sky Rockets tonight. So I appreciate you having me on, man. I'm excited about this. I appreciate that. I appreciate the shout out as the goat. This feels like, you know, Super Bowl, like old goat and the young goat, Ray GQ, Pat Mahomes over here. Before we dig in to what I want to dig in, and by the way, this is just me being selfish. I got two of the best guys on. I want help with my best ball rankings. I want to help with my my rookie ranks, which are going to come out in in probably just two weeks

or so. So this is like very selfish moment for me. But I'm going to talk to my guy, Ray, about Jalen Rieger because, you know, I was on the Jalen Rieger hype train and it's who do we blame? Do we blame Doug Peterson? Do we blame Carson Wentz? I mean, for me, the big thing was Howie Roseman drafted Rieger over Jefferson and his big thing was we got him because he could separate outside. We didn't think Justin Jefferson can separate outside. And a ton of big name guys in the industry were like, yeah, I mean, he's amazing.

question is, can he separate outside? Minnesota, by the way, ran 12 personnel, one of the highest rates in the league, slot-wide receiver on the field less than anyone else. And so the missing variable there was, can he separate outside? And oh, boy, can he separate outside? And, you know, it makes sense then, in hindsight, Rick Spielman laughing his ass off when Howie Roseman took Jalen Rieger. But I still believe in Rieger. I'm still excited about Rieger. Tell me your thought. because I think we both, I think, I think consensus we had in wide receiver one, and I think I think you had a wide receiver one. Yeah, so here's the thing.

And I don't want to make excuses, right? Like he didn't deliver. And I really think what killed that pick more than anything else was the fact that right after he gets drafted, then it's Justin Jefferson, right? Like it was directly after the Jalen pick. Now, here's the thing. leading up all through the modified training camp, he was balling out. Like everybody was like this dude is looking legit, breaks his arm, chasing down a Carson

Wins interception in practice or whatever happens, man. But I mean, the first game of the season versus Washington, he goes out there and catches a 55-yard bomb from Carson Wins in game one. And it's looking like it's wheels up. You know, we're excited. But I mean, who from the Philadelphia Eagles played well last year? I mean, Erd's nothing. and Goddard had a couple of touchdowns.

Boobie Miles had a couple of games here and there. But overall, the whole situation was terrible. You know what I'm saying? So I definitely still have confidence in faith that he can turn it around, right? I'm one of the people who, to a certain degree, I'm willing to give majority of these rookies a pass for this season. Like the majority of them. Like the ones that excelled and played well, hell yeah. Like those dudes are studs, right?

The Justin Jeffersons of the world, J.T. et cetera, et cetera. But for most of these guys, I'm willing to give them a little bit of grace because it was a season unlike no other. It was an off season like no other. No rookie minicamp, no OTAs, modified training camp. So let's see, right?

But if I'm being objective, Scott, I think that, and it's so crazy that Jefferson, Rager, who's in the slot, who's outside. I think they had it like, like Rager should have been in the slot, right? They got him outside where he thrived inside. And he played outside at TCU as well. but put him inside. So hopefully he turns into, I still think he's probably more of a high-end wide receiver

two than a top five dynasty wide receiver like Justin Jefferson. But I'm not closing the door on them. Not yet, not after one season after after this. But yeah, man, I had him real high. I had him at wide receiver two overall. I mean, he hit the numbers. He hit the analytical numbers. He tested like a phenomenal athlete.

Just didn't work out, man. Can't hit them all. Yeah. And, you know, again, we can be very forgiving of Rieger, the injuries, all that stuff adding up. And it's also like Carson Wence completely fell off the map. I mean, you replace him with, you know, I love Jalen Hertz, but, you know, a more mobile type of quarterback, hurting volume type numbers. But yeah, I'd say the jury's not out. Wes, is there anything you want to add on Jalen Rieger or Carson Wants or the Eagles offense?

Yeah, I think Godder, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't just. brush off his his breakout this year. I think I think he makes arts, you know, a movable piece now. And I was really impressed by him. And also hurts. I mean, we didn't really expect him to come in and take the, you know, league by storm. But I thought he did pretty well with what he had and, you know, just the preparation coming in knowing how bad the Eagles were playing at that offensive line. I thought he, I thought he did pretty decent. But I, I, I, I, I, pretty much agree with everything else. Okay. And yeah, I mean, don't get me started on Dallas Goddard, one of my all-time favorite, my guys. But yeah, let's dig in. So what we're going to do is

I compiled the expert draft ranking. So this isn't going to be, you know, straight one-to-one fantasy. But we're going to just walk it through position by position, basically the top, the top five at each position. And I'll get your thoughts on each player. And let's see. start with the quarterback position. Trevor Lawrence, I'll just give you my take. So, like, again, I don't really know anything outside of the obvious. This guy is supposed to be the biggest lock since Andrew Luck, who is the biggest lock since Peyton Manning, who is the biggest lock since John Elway. John Elway. Yeah, Elway, Marino, yeah. Yeah. So it's like a sure thing, ultra lock. And so like I agree with that.

I think you're doing a super flex rookie draft. I think he's the clear unanimous 101. I think you do a super flex startup draft. I think he's probably being drafted in round one. I don't think I'm going to do that, though. I think if I hold the 101, I might be looking to sell because I like this class. I think it's deep.

I like it to a tier drop at 109 or something. But more importantly, it's just what have we seen from the fantasy position, it's the error of the Konami code. And Trevor Lawrence might be the surest thing in the world, but he's not a Konami code quarterback in the sense that, you know, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Kyler Murray is. And so like, I think he's going to be more overvalue, basically. But, but let's let's talk about what you see from Trevor Lawrence from a fantasy perspective. And how much are you buying the hype? And do you think, like, the comparisons to

and Andrew Luck are warranted or not. Ray, let me hear your thoughts. Yeah, that's an interesting, that's an interesting perspective to take, Scott, because I don't think you're wrong. Like, I do think he's going to go. I've seen some

early dynasty startup mocks, and I mean, he's right there at QB4, QB5. You know what I'm saying? So he's going sky high. I do think he's that legit. He's that, I've watched them, from high school, you know, damn near every game at Clemson. And you just see some of the things that he does. And it's insane.

It's ridiculous. And I know a lot of times people look at him and they're like, oh, he's sneaky. He's sneaky athletic. There's nothing sneaky about Trevor Lawrence's athleticism. I mean, he's a fantastic athlete. And I think that when people, the masses, when the general public sees just how fast he is, because while he's not a Kunami Code quarterback, you wouldn't, you wouldn't label him as such. He's somebody that I think you can probably pencil in for about 300,

350 rushing yards of season, man. Like he's pretty damn good extending plays with his legs. And then when he gets outside, you see versus Ohio State last year, I mean, he's pulling off away from first round defenders, right? So he's got speed when he hits the open field. He's got the size. He's got the arm talent, a proven winner. And you just saw the moment that he took over for Kelly Bryant in 2018, that offense just, got infinitely better than what it was. And then he took them on to win a national championship as a true freshman. So when you're looking at the high school pedigree, what he's been able to accomplish in

college. And then again, this season, you know, crazy season for Clemson, crazy, crazy season for everybody. He still wanted to me, he's a sure thing. I don't know if I would draft him that high just because I'd probably like to grab some value a little bit later. But I think he's a lot to be to be a legitimate quarterback at the next level. What about you, West? You think in like Andrew Luck levels of Locke? Because in Dynasty, I mean, you get Trevor Lawrence. Ideally, you're getting a guy producing for 20 years compared to Najee Harris, who might return more value in the first five years, but then like how much longer is he going to be a sustainable, you know, producer, just, you know, running backs die off quicker. It is what it is. So, Wes, where are you at on Trevor Lawrence in comparisons to Andrew Luck?

Well, you forgot one guy as far as locks go, and that was Joe Burr. Burrow. We need definitely to include him in that list because to me, Burroughs a better prospect than Trevor Lawrence. Just because of his, yeah, his skill set, his ability to read coverages is well beyond Trevor Lawrence's. That much is clear. Arm strength, though, doesn't Burrough like not really have great deep, deep ball accuracy or deep or arm strength? Well, you know, you can get away with arm strength with a quicker release. And he does that. Burrough is able to get the ball out, you know, and, and this isn't a knock on Trevor Lawrence. I actually don't think it's, it's really that fair to compare him to such great quarterbacks.

Because I think, I think Lawrence is, he's still developing. He's quite a bit younger than Burrow as well. And he's a lot bigger than the other guys that that'll be drafted around him at quarterback. So, you know, yeah, he's, he's definitely not as fast as a Justin Fields or, I don't know, maybe Zach Wilson. I know his Nike time wasn't that great, but he seems to have gotten faster during his time at BYU, at least on tape. So, you know, he's not as fast as those guys, but he's much bigger. He's three inches taller than both.

So I think, I think Lawrence is definitely somebody like Ray said that's going to put up enough numbers on the ground to count, elevate that floor. And, but yeah, to me, I think I'm waiting because I know you, I know you're going to love this. I would rather wait a little bit and, and go after Fields or Wilson, even Trey Lance. I know he's not going to be somebody that everyone's going to love. But I think the top four are pretty safe guys. There's enough athleticism.

Let's not blow the lead here because we'll get into each of those guys in order. and I want to thank Ray for calling me out for saying, you know, Trevor's definitely not a Konami Code quarterback. In 2019, he totaled 707 rushing yards. You know, Justin Fields, who is being heralded, at least in the vein of a Deshawn Watson type of Konami Code quarterback, only had six more rushing yards. So, and I think fewer touchdowns, or no, just one additional touchdown. So, that was a great point, you know, underrated Konami Code upside there, on top of being, you know, this, this phenomenal arm talent. And when I say arm talent, the guy who jumps to mind to me, who I think is going to be the most polarizing name, talked about right now is Zach Wilson, who is sort of the unanimous QB2, which seems crazy to me. Because I was on the Zach Wilson hype train super early on when he was like a fringe, round one guy. I'm like, yo, this guy's awesome. And it seems like everyone wants to move him up to like the top 10 picks, but like you just don't have the balls to do it. And then he just kept

moving him up, up, up, up. And now he is supplanted Justin Fields, which seems crazy to me. But at the same time, like armed talent for days, like someone is going to fall in love with this kid. Sean McVeigh, Kyle Shanhan, someone's going to fall in love with his arm talent. I think elite deep touch, elite, elite deep touch in the vein of Russell Wilson is what I see. At this point, a little bit underrated, overrated arm strength, but it's there. It's there. Good velocity. The size is a concern.

Like, he talked about wanting to play with Kyle Shanahan. Like, that was, like, his ideal spot. And, like, that's been comped many, many times. but just thinking about him who looks like Justin Bieber facing Aaron Donald who looks like a Marvel character twice per year just as hilarious to me. The kid looks like just like a cute teenage boy where like Aaron Donald's just going to like dribble his head off the turf.

That scares me. So, you know, size is a concern. Durability is a concern. He's dealt with injuries. Strength of schedule is a massive concern. I'll let you guys get into. Offensive line, a concern. But, I mean, he's fun to watch.

He makes a lot of wow plays. It wouldn't shock me if he's QB2. I've kind of just given up on quarterback analysis. I'll just trust Wes. I'll trust Greg Kassel. It's just out of my depth. I'm good at the other positions. Quarterback's just over my head.

So if you said Zach Wilson, QB2, that's fine. I just can't imagine Zach Wilson QB2 from a fantasy perspective. even if he goes QB2 in the draft just because of the Konami type things we talked about. Wes, give me your unadulterated thoughts on Zach Wilson. Well, I agree with you. I think he's got plenty of armed talent. I just do not see the reason that he should be moved ahead of Justin Fields.

It's just too much. Daniel Jeremiah just released two days ago. Justin Fields four, Zach Wilson, too. Mel Kiper and Todd McShay on their podcast said, Justin Fields should stay another year at Ohio State, which is like the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I don't know what it is, but like the talking heads, we'll probably get to it in a little bit,

but like the talking heads are just like totally disowned Justin Fields. but yeah. Let's get back to Zach. So for Zach, though, I mean, he's just, he's got some holes in his game against cover one, 55 percent, six touchdowns, four interceptions. He's going to face man coverage around a third of snaps. For me, that's not a QB2 type, you know, outlook. I need, I need better than that.

Justin Fields, 60 percent, 10 touchdowns, zero interceptions against man coverage. And I could, and going even further, their numbers are pretty identical the rest of the way, except for Fields has attended to touchdown into interception ratio against cover three, which you'll see about a third of snaps, whereas Wilson's five to three. I think, I think, I think really we're splitting hairs, though, because I think they're both going to do well in this league. But moving him to four, moving Fields to four is, it's preposterous. All right. I got, before we move to to hear Ray's thoughts, I have one insane Zach Wilson stat. So his deep ball accuracy is a somewhat volatile stat. But like to this degree is just mind blowing. So on 30 plus yard throws, he had an 84% adjusted completion percentage on 25 passes. 84%. That's like Alex Smith throwing three yards levels of accuracy. So,

adjusted completion percentage, just completions plus drops divided by passes. Patrick Mahomes, meanwhile, on his first 25 passes of 30 plus yards, 40% adjusted completion percentage. And that's like above average. No one came close to Zach Wilson. So just like his deep touch was just mind-blowing to me. But Ray, I heard I heard you think you'd have Mack Jones ahead of Zach Wilson. Is it a take I've heard? I don't know if that's true or not, but it's a rumor. It's 100% true. 100% true. And I'm on the, and I'm comfortable on that island.

I'm not one that dives into. I was talking to my boy Crocker from the Crocker report, man. We both played defensive back in college, so we've kind of bonded over that on Twitter. And listen. The toughest position in football. I watch, listen, all my experience comes from my takes. I've started to incorporate some analytical data in my stuff because it's, it works. Some of this stuff is really good.

But majority, 80% of my takes come from the lens of someone who played the game, and that's how I watch it. And I watch him. And I'm not going to dismiss the fact that he played at BYU versus San Diego State versus some of these teams that don't want to press that are scared of his receivers. Zach Maline or whatever his name is. They're playing off coverage. His toughest competition is supposed to be. I'm not, I admit, that stuff matters.

I still think he's a first round talent, of course. So he's going to be a first round pick, a high. first round pick. But I just have more questions and answers. I think a lot of people, and listen, people come out of nowhere, right? Joe Burrow, the end of his 2018 season, we saw a little something out of him, and then he took it, took the world by storm in 2019. Nobody was talking about Zach Wilson coming to the season. He blows up, can't knock his completion percentage, throwing the ball downfield, yards per pass attempt. He's pushing it downfield. He's playing well. But I just, I don't see, I don't see this.

QB2 type elite upside for him. In fantasy, I think he's going to be a fine quarterback in the NFL, but I'm not seeing what everybody else does. And I've watched every snap, all 22 angle. I'm watching it all. And he makes some great throws. But hell, I can show you Chris Ralph that played at Mississippi State years ago. He made some great throws from time to time too.

And I'm not comparing Zach Wilson to some lesser player. But to put him over Justin Fields is asinine in my opinion. people are knocking fields because he had a bad game versus Indiana or Northwestern, whatever the case may be. That's just, I think sometimes we get fatigue. I think sometimes we hear about these names for so long, Justin Fields, Trevor Lawrence, whomever it is, right? As soon as some hot wave comes along that's playing well, now we want to propel them to this pedestal.

And I think that's what happens sometimes. And I like Zach Wilson, but it's not my QB. or my QB3 and I'm fine with that, you know, listen, the thing that I learned last year, I don't give a damn what anybody else thinks. I'm not going to conform to group think. I'm not going to do that. That's what I say. I'm going to back it up with the film and things that I see. And if I'm right, I'm right. And if I'm wrong, I got no problem saying I'm wrong. But he ain't my QB2, man. Can I come in with a little support for Wilson? Yeah. And this isn't to knock. I mean, you played college ball and you definitely lost.

Lots of props for that. And, you know, you've got a perspective of the game from the inside that I'll never have. And, and also, you know, it's, you're exactly right. He played at BYU. He's, you know, the competition was certainly nowhere near what Mack Jones Fields or Lawrence faced. We can say the same for Trey Lance. But we do, if we look a little further back, Wilson did play for a top high school, played for a top 200 ranked Corner Canyon. high school in Utah. And the thing about the thing about a quarterback being ranked in the top 10, you'll never see a guy, a pocket passer that that's completely immobile drafted in the top 10. And that's why Zach Wilson is in the conversation is because at the Nike Invitational, he blew it up. He was over 100 with his spark score. He's a he's a multidimensional athlete, somebody that can play today's NFL what everyone is hoping to achieve and can do so with an arm

with some decent arm talent. Now, if you compare Wilson's arm talent to Mack Jones, no way, no way. It's not the same. Mac Jones is the better passing quarterback between the two. But Jones doesn't have that athleticism. And I think, I still think I'm still in support of Jones in the first round. Don't get me wrong. I still think. he goes first round. I just don't think he's going to go on the top 10 because of that, that lack of athleticism. But I think he has the right mindset as well. He's that, he's that guy that if he doesn't win a game, he's going to beat himself up until he gets back out on the field. I love, I love the way he plays. He just beat my Buckeyes, but I've got a healthy respect for

anyone who plays good football. And Mack Jones really impressed me in that game. He was phenomenal. Don't disagree. Love everything you said. 100% on board with everything he said. And I do think that the pocket mobility and his and Zach Wilson's ability to move around right outside the pocket, if you're asking me, and this is why it's so damn hard. Like I'm being vulnerable here. I'm being transparent. This is why it's hard, right? Because in fantasy, Mack Jones is a statute. He's going to give you a zero in the rushing game, probably a negative in the rushing game, right? So if you're going to take that quarterback, I guess the question one must ask themselves is, is he a

a 5,000 yard passer per season. I can't, without seeing where he lands and all of that, I can't confidently say that. For me, I think his, Zach Wilson has probably one of the highest ceilings. Mack Jones, if you're talking about a safe QB2 in Superflex, your second quarterback in a two QB league, I think Mac Jones gives you that with some upside.

But I do not believe Mac Jones has the upside of a Zach Wilson, a Trey Lance, a Justin Fields, or Trevor Lawrence, 100%. Agreed. Yeah, I will just say, I don't think Zach Wilson came out of nowhere. His freshman year, he graded out just as highly as Joe Burroughs junior season. And then he dealt with injuries, a myriad of injuries, his sophomore season. Also, yes, good mobility in the pocket. He could also like different arm angles in the way that, you know, Mahomes or Aaron Rogers can do. That's very, very, exciting. But at the same time, like spark score is meaningless for me, especially within the context of the fact that he's 6.3, 209. That's, you know, again, that scares me. But yeah, before we get to imagine. I don't think it's something that we want to use as, okay, he got a good spark score.

He's a good player. But it's something that we, we want to consider all the facts. And he did show that he's an athletic quarterback, which is something that we've seen for quarterbacks drafted in the top can. Okay. So Justin Fields, I think I agree where it's just like the thing, you know, film heads do, you know, they want more views, they want more excitement, you know, here's the clear established guy. He's been awesome forever. You're going to overreact to one game and then underreact to like another amazing game where he battled through like broken ribs. I don't get it. The one knock I keep hearing is like he just locks on to a first read and then you take the first read away from him. he can't progress to the other reeds.

Again, I'm not good at quarterbacks. That's why I'm leaning heavy on you guys. So how important is that? Is that a thing? Like how valuable would his mobility be for fantasy? How would it compare to a Trey Lance's mobility? I've heard it compared as like Deshawn Watson versus Josh Allen. I don't really know.

But this is your QB2, and I think this is raised QB2. So why do you guys tell me, why you love Justin Field so much, why Daniel Jeremiah at QB4 is wrong and everyone else at QB3 is also wrong. Yeah, I don't think we need to argue with Daniel Jeremiah or, you know, Mel Kiper. I think I think the tape speaks for itself. And I think NFL teams, they're not going to look at these analysts and say,

oh, this guy has him ranked there. So, you know, they're doing their own research. And Fields, I mean, he runs a sub four, five, 40. I mean, but he's, not a guy that over, you know, runs away from a clean pocket. He's a guy that that is looking to get the ball downfield. And, you know, his numbers are just phenomenal off the charts, you know, over 60% against every coverage. He did throw six interceptions against more than two defenders deep. But he had 17 touchdowns. So that helps. Whereas, you know, you look at Trevor Lawrence against cover three, he threw four touchdowns to five interceptions. He against cover one, he had a 54% completion percentage. Not saying, but I think, I think Lawrence, he's still young.

Just these guys have so much talent that there's so many surrounding factors. But as far as Fields goes, his arm strength is is with anybody, is, you know, up there with anybody. his legs. He can outrun guys. I mean, he's not as fast as a Michael Vick, but he's not that far behind. What do you say his 40 time was? It's sub 4.5. He ran 451 at the Nike Invitational, but he says, he says, put that in perspective. Vince Young 448, Colin Kaepernick, 453, Cam Newton, 456. Yeah, yeah. And if I were to comp somebody to, for Justin, feel, it'd be Cam Newton when he played at Auburn. Not the, not the current version, the, you know, the good version.

Yep. And, you know, I, it's, you know, I don't want to sound like I'm a homer because you'll never hear me tout a player from Ohio State that I don't buy into. Yeah, like Cardell Jones or J.T. Barrett, never said a word about him. Of course, I wasn't out here shouting my, my touts to everyone. But at the same time, you know, I just, I'm, I was. I was big on Fields when he was at Georgia, and I'm just as big on him now. I just, I think he's, I think he's going to do really well, whoever gets him.

And I'll, I'll try to snap him up wherever I can because I know he's going to, he's going to do the, the rushing stuff that I love. Yeah. So I'll just, I'll say this. So when we talk about these Konami code quarterbacks, right? The thing about Justin Fields is he's a passing quarterback that can run the ball. he's not a run for first quarterback that's trying to develop and learn how to throw the ball. I really, I'm not going to dive deep into this one. Fields is phenomenal.

He's one of the top high school quarterback prospects of all time. And then, and I'm just going to say this, in the semifinal game versus Clemson, first play of the game, they lose the hammer, Trey Sertman, Ohio State loses their top tailback. Justin Fields, they'll probably never admit, something happened. right he gets blasted bruised ribs probably broke something probably they won't tell us right the fact that he leaves for one play comes back in throws a dart to chris elave for a touchdown and then goes on to throw six more touchdown passes rushes for 40 yards in that game and i think he had six incompletions probably and i'm not i'm not saying this lightly one of the best collegiate performances giving the

circumstances, given the fact that they had lost to Clemson the year before, coming off of, you know, two bad games for Justin Field standards to do what he did. That's, that's, you got, I can't express to you some things that none of us. I don't care how many numbers we have, how much film we watch, there are some intangibles that cannot be measured in football players. And I can tell you stories off air about players that I know that played with the Josh Gordon's of the world in college that played with some of these other guys that just said, oh, it was only a matter of time before that time bomb blew up. Like, this is what he did in school.

That leadership coming back out there and then delivering high level throws. That moonshot to Chris Olive was elite. Like, I don't care if it's Daniel Jeremiah, Daniel Jones, Daniel Cormier, they're damn wrong with that one. Justin Fields is QB2, man. Stop the madness. And you know, what if you want to make the argument that he's probably closer to he's closer to qb one than he is qb four i'll just leave it that at that he's closer to quarterback one than he is quarterback four stop i love that coming out of high school he was ranked right on with trevor lawrence so completely agree with that i uh so i will say one of the dumbest things i i think i've heard all

offseason echoed repeatedly is well he's an ohio state quarterback and like none of those guys work out. It's like, Joe Burrow is an Ohio State quarterback. Yeah, there you go. How late can you get, right? How lazy can you get? She right. How many BYU quarterbacks have, you know, all right. Ty Detmer. So, so Tray Lance, uh, very, very interesting to me. I kind of don't know very much about him, except two years ago, his numbers were incredible. He played one game this year. I've heard this guy as like a great Konami code quarterback where it's,

I heard him comp to Josh Allen, where it's like, okay, I don't, like my take of Josh Allen two years ago, which was, okay, because he runs and he's so productive running, he's going to be a QB1 for however many years he's going to be a starter in the league. but I don't know how many years he's going to be a star during the league. Or is he just awesome? I really don't know because his numbers, you know, two years ago, incredible, like zero interceptions, 49 passing touchdowns, 1,000 plus rushing yards. But I really don't know a ton about this guy.

So, Wes, why didn't you enlighten me? Yeah, I don't think anyone knows a ton about this guy. I mean, you know, he's not up there with the top three. He's, there's a, and honestly, I'm, I'd be fine with Mac Jones going ahead of Tray Lance, just because we don't know enough about him. And, and on top of that, you know, the competition was, was, I mean, we're talking about FCS stuff. You know, he's, he, but yeah, he's a guy that can run the ball, you know, and he, and, and we're

going to see plenty of that. And, and, you know, I, I see him more as like a Jalen Hertz kind of guy than a, then, you know, somebody up there with, with the elites. I mean, I don't, I don't see him as a top 10, but I'm fine with, with him being mentioned there because, because of, you know, he does have some arm strength and, you know, and because of his athleticism to, to work outside the pocket. I think, I think we'll see, we'll see a lot of read option and, and RPO stuff with him. I think without that, you know, he's going to get left out to dry. And I wish he would have stayed one more year. But, you know, it's hard to argue the fact that, you know, when somebody starts throwing dollars at you, just, you know, I can understand why I want to take it.

But, you know, he's going to be a project. He's not, he's not somebody's going to come out and start, you know, I guess somebody more like a Jalen Hertz. But a second rounder. But, you know, it's. The NFL is QB hungry. You know, they're starving for talent. And, you know, he didn't do that well at the Nike Invitational. And, you know, it's, he struggled a little bit against cover 1, 57% completion percentage.

But, you know, decent against zone. Just, we just don't have enough numbers. We don't have enough reps to really make that, you know, clear distinction on whether he should be top 10, top 20, top 30. or second round. It's a small sample size, but on those numbers, but those numbers are just, you know, drool-inducing, especially from a fantasy perspective, 42 total touchdowns, zero interceptions,

1180 rushing yards. It's North Dakota State, okay, but that is exciting. And I do think he's probably an athlete. I don't know what, you know. No, he is. He is. He was recruited as a wide receiver. Yeah.

by many power five schools. And I think you can give them a pass for the one game he played this year. It's like race, Ed. This was just, this year, it's, it's so hard to knock anybody unless they just completely bottomed out. And, you know, one game, we don't do the single game scouting stuff. Did you hear the quotes from the UCA defenders? So pretty much they knew that North Dakota State scheduled that one game versus them for Tray Lance to go off on national TV and they said that for the past during they had already this was their fourth game I think it was

their fourth or fifth game going into north Dakota state they said they had started prepping for him three weeks before that game so they threw they knew it was coming and they threw if you watch the tape they were running corner blitzes double safe they were doing everything in their power to make tray lance look bad like you're not about to it I would take that personal y'all schedule us for your one game showcase for tray lance all right I got something for you. But I do have him ranked very, very high, and it's because of the talent. He's not as polished as, I don't think, any of the other four quarterbacks, but he's the best Russian quarterback in the class. Like when you watch him run the ball, he's running, like Fields and Lawrence

are smart runners. Trey Lance is running, he needs to do a better job of protecting himself. He's running with the intention. Like, he's trying to punish people in that 6'4, 230 pounds. He's got, he's fast. He's going to run fast. He's got a bazooka attached to his shoulder. For me, when I'm watching the tape, I'm looking at quarterbacks that can make the far hash to sideline throw. If you can put that on a rope from the far hash to the sideline consistently and accurately,

you got some arm strength. That dude has an absolute cannon attached to his, to his shoulder. Now, the level of competition, I just talked about Zach Wilson playing at BYU. this is significantly less than BYU and much far less than what Mac Jones faced in the SEC or Fields or Lawrence. So he's the type of quarterback that I just hope that he lands in a spot. Let's just say hypothetically, Carolina, where he can sit behind a Teddy Bridgewater for a year, hopefully for a year, and learn the NFL game. And then I think that the talent is what you're banking on. You're banking on the arm strength.

you're banking on some of the consistent throws he made and you're banking on utilizing his legs to win you football games. And I think he can do that. So I did have him lower and ended up moving him up about a week ago. So I really like the talent of Trey Lance. Yeah. And Ray is a former defensive back. I'm very team defensive back. Toughest position to play in football. Hate wide receivers. Annoying me first divas. So, team CB, all my favorite players, defensive backs. Trey Lance's father, collegiate defensive backs. So you know, he knows how to read defenses. You know he knows how to put his wide receivers in a favorable spot. Last quarterback we're going to talk to, and we went a little too, too in depth on the quarterback position probably, but I'm enjoying this. I'm having fun. Is Mack Jones, you guys already brought it up his big weak spot is he is sort of a statuessque pocket passer maybe think like Ben Rathesberger, Jared Goff. And that's really like, you know, not where the NFL is trending towards, not where the NFL is going. It kind of limits what you can do offensively. It limits the

playbook. So let's talk about the pluses and minuses with Mack Jones and what, you know, having a non-mobile quarterback means for your team. I mean, you know, Tom Brady paid man. and can be successful. Can a Mac Jones be successful, Wes, why don't you take it from the top? Well, you know, it's going to come down to is can he read NFL blitzes? If he can read the blitz as well as a Ben Rathesberger or Aaron Rogers, then he's not going to have to leave the pocket. And, you know, you really, you really can't, you know, determine that from college tape. We're going to have to see what happens when he gets to the NFL. I'm all on board.

I think he's the, for me, he's QB5. I've got Lance ahead of him. Just, and speaking of Lance, like you said, he,

he's a bruiser. He likes to, he likes to get dirty. He better stop doing that when he gets to the NFL or he's going to be, he's going to be out for a season here and there. So anyway, but as far as Mac Jones,

I mean, his arm talent is up there with, with anybody in the, in the class. And he's got, He's got the mindset that we all love. Kind of reminds me a little of Joe Burrow just likes to compete and, you know, really hard on himself when he, when he doesn't do things right. And I'm going to cheat a little.

And I know you said, that's the last guy. But for my QB6, it's Kelman. That's all I'm going to say. Right. Anything to add on your guy, Mack Jones, who you have ahead of Zach Wilson? I'll just say this. If Mac Jones wore number 13 and his last name was Tunga Vailoa, and had the season that he had this season,

people would be losing their minds. People, it's the whole, like, he doesn't look, you see, we saw the picture with a shirt off. He doesn't move around. He's just kind of a statute. But when you look at all of the advanced analytics for passing, I believe he led the country in yards per pass attempt,

past 20 yards. Like, the dude was phenomenal. Like, he had, you couldn't play a more perfect season than what Mack Jones. did. It's just the fact that he's Mac Jones. He's just he's just Mac Jones. He wasn't this highly recruited guy. He had to wait behind Hertz. He had to wait behind Tua. And then people want to sit here and say, oh, well, he had Devante Smith. You mean the same Devante Smith that people said is going to be a bust because he's not good. He's not a good wide receiver. He's throwing a Slade Bolden and John

Mechie. Neither of those guys are going to be first round picks at the NFL. You know, Tua had rugs and Judy and Devonta Smith and Naji Harris and Jalen Waddle and Jal Billings Like you can't have it both ways It was okay when Tua was doing it He's the The conversation In some people you know Two over Burrow two of the greatest prospect ever

Whatever the case may be You can't have it that way When he was thrown to those weapons And then when Matt Jones Is deprived of those same individuals And goes out there and puts up better numbers Than what Tua did Oh it's it and he did it in one less game

One of damn Natty Like I just It's the it's this thing man You know He's not cool he's immobile he can do everything he's a phenomenal quarterback and like like west said i think he can you know and i've got people at the senior bowl right now that said it's it's not even close he's the best quarterback there like it's it's it's it's evident he's the best quarterback there if he could

read the blitz he's not going to have to leave the pocket you're just banking on the guy to throw for 4,000 yards and give you 35 plus touchdowns a season i think he's a phenomenal quarterback i love Who are the other quarterbacks that are at the senior ball right now? Any of the other four we just mentioned? Sam, no, Sam Ellinger, Ian Book,

Felipe Franks. Kellen Mond is there. Jamie Newman. Jamie Newman is there. But a bunch of, you know, outside of Mond and probably Jamie Newman, guys that we're probably not going to be talking about.

I've got Jones ahead of Mont. Don't, I hope you knew that time. Oh, right, right, right, right. Kyle Trask. Yeah,

that's what we're doing. Trask isn't there, though. Trask didn't go. He's, he's not there. Yeah, I've got, I've got Monde above Trask. Same here. Same. Okay, okay. Well, good to know. So, so we, we just spent, I don't know, 50 minutes on tight end. How much time do you have, Ray? Infinite. Beautiful. Yeah, let's go. Let's just do it. Hey, all right. Let's breeze through tight ends then.

Tight end, I think, should be an easy one. So from a fantasy perspective, you can look at positional value in a typical one QB redraft league like quarterbacks are basically worthless so you could stream by adding and dropping quarterbacks week to week or until you settle on one that seems productive it's pretty easy to cobble together mid-range QB1 production despite low draft capital low fantasy draft capital spent on a quarterback so quarterback is worth a lot less than running back. But within these positions, you know, a Konami code quarterback is worth a lot more than a, you know, a Tom Brady, who, you know, fantastic statistical season, but, you know, 10 rushing yards are worth 25 passing yards. You know, you just do the math and it's a cheat code. It's easy.

Same thing for running backs. Is a bell cow running back is worth a lot more than a workhorse running back or a scatback. You know, James White can't really compare to a Christian McCaff Nick Chubb can't compare to a Christian McCaffrey. So Belcow running back is just every down running back involved as a runner and a passer heavily utilized in the offense. And for a tight end, the same thing is sort of true for Travis Kelsey, for Darren Waller, which is to say the wide receiver slash tight end hybrid. Like you look at wide receiver routes run at the tight end position. And like Kelsey and Waller at 50, percent and then no one else is above 20 percent. And like George Kittle might be my favorite not, my favorite player in all of football, but he's at a disadvantage because he's so good of a blocker. He's, he's staying in and blocking and Travis Kelsey's going to run maybe 25 percent more routes per game than a George Kittle just because, you know, Travis Kelsey doesn't waste time blocking. Darren Waller doesn't waste time blocking. Literal, you know, former wide receiver, Darren Waller

now tight end. So that is a cheat code at the tight end position. We saw it this year with specifically those two tight ends. And so when I see Kyle Pitts, my hot take is, he's in the fucking Hall of Fame. Like I love this guy. Like I am putting him in the Hall of Fame. He is just a, he looks like a top three wide receiver in this class at the tight end position, just an absolute freak of nature, mismatch, cheat code for fantasy. I love him. I could draft him top three, like, easy. Like, I could draft him over Jamar Chase, over Devanta Smith and a tight end premium

league, easy. But I want to hear your guys' thoughts because, like, I know this is a hot take. Ray, where are you at? I have none. I have nothing. You said it all. He's phenomenal. He's great.

If he were listed as a wide receiver, I'd argue top two, top three. I don't think that's an argument. I mean, he's, he is, he's, he's incredible, he's incredible, route running in line. And people keep, he, he's a tight end. Like, he's a tight end that just so happens to move and play like a wide receiver. Like, look at what he did. Tight ends are not utilized that way in college. It just doesn't happen.

That's not how the college game works. It's built, the college success is predicated on your damn quarterback, running back. and if you got a wide receiver, right? That's just how the, you don't feature a tight end in college. George Kittle was not featured in college. Robert Rancowski was fantastic at Arizona, but I mean, what Kyle Pitts did at Florida in six games a season, seven games is ridiculous.

Double teams, triple teams, bracket coverage, safety over top, linebacker shading on the inside, and they can't stop him. He's pulling away from defensive backs. He's a red zone problem, back shoulder fades, two feet down on the sidelines. He's right now, as soon as Commissioner Goodell says, Kyle, he's a top five dynasty tied in

instantly right there. And you can argue maybe even top four. He's great. He's a fantastic player. When I watch him, I get shades of, shades of Darren Waller, shades of Travis Kelsey,

a lot of Jimmy Graham, I think maybe Aaron Hernandez on steroids. My big concern, is he just goes to some, like, dumb, fuck, offensive coordinator, head coach, who doesn't know how to use him, and it just, like, breaks my heart. But, like, imagine him with New England. Imagine him with New Orleans. Right.

Give me a few, like, ideal landing spots before I'm worried West rains in our parade. Man, I think, and I don't think he's going to fall this far, but Arizona seems like they wanted to feature the tight end a lot. They kept trying to force Dan Arnold DeBall and that Darnell Daniel's guy. That's not going to work. So I think him with Kyler Murray and DeAndre Hopkins would be fucking insane. We didn't see Carolina utilize the tight end a lot, but is that because they really didn't have a tight end? I don't know if Matt Rule would actually do that. Is Joe Brady still there as well? Like, I feel like he would utilize a Kyle Pitts type. I'm seeing a lot of Philadelphia

talk. But for me, I think Arizona would be the spot that I would love to see impaired and tethered to a, you know, pro bowl caliber quarterback, and they will not do it. I know they won't do it. They've got to protect their top quarterback investment. But if the Cincinnati Bengals, if Joe Burrow had a tight end and you add him to that Cincinnati offense, that would be fucking awesome. But right now I'm looking at, I'm looking at Arizona, but I don't think he's going to fall that far.

He's going to get stuck with Dan Campbell in Detroit. Watch. Oh, God. Some shit like that. Even though I got Hockenston somehow, Dan Campbell, I need to. tight ends. We want to run 21 personnel. I need two tight ends. So, yeah. All right, Wes, come rain on our parade. Well, I got to be a bad guy here. I'm not going to rain on your parade. Oh, yes. The one thing I will say going back, what you said about Kelsey and Waller,

Waller's nowhere close to Kelsey on those out wide routes. He's, he's 25%, 27% compared to over 40% usage. I also like how Evan Ingram was used at Ole Miss where it's just basically wide receiver. He's a wide receiver basically for Ole Miss. Yeah. And speaking of Ole Miss, I mean, that's where a third of Pitts's touchdowns came. And they just completely decided not to play defense this year. So, but then he came back and he did really well against Kentucky. Kentucky had one of the best secondaries in the SEC. So we're, you know, he, he definitely proved, you know, to be more than just a player that does really well against the teams he's expected to succeed against. Now, I think the thing with all three of the top, the top three

tight ends in the draft this year is just health. I think we just need to worry about guys like Pitts and Jordan going, you know, playing tied in. If he's going to classify, I see Pitts, he reminds me more of a Chase Claypool than a tight end. So we'll see. I don't see him blocking that much. He's definitely going to be more of a joker. So, you know, we'll see him in this. I mean, that's great. You don't, you don't get fantasy points per block.

No, no, no. I'm just saying, you know, we call him a tied end. But, you know, I thought like in Debbie, I took, I took Claypool before, you know, entering his true freshman season, took him in every Debbie league. But I thought he was going to end up as a tied in in the NFL. And, you know, of course he didn't. And he's still doing really well just with that. speed. And, you know, Pitts doesn't have Chase Claypool speed. So we'll probably still see him

listed as a tight-in just, you know, throughout. So I love Pitts. And, and I think he'll be a, definitely a, you know, top, top four pick in, uh, and I know, and I know, and I know, just like speaking to Travis Kelsey, he is the most valuable player over the past four seasons by ESPN win rate. ESPN is 10 team PPR, one QB, two running back, two wide receiver, one flex, one tight end. But he has the best average win rate. He's the only player to finish top 20 in win rate each season. So there is a big value and you can just look at positional value where it's like, okay, he is outscoring the tight end five by what the wide receiver two is outscoring the wide receiver 50.

So clear value there. comes close to Kyle Pitts, but Pat Friermuth, I don't know if I definitely didn't pronounce that right. Firmuth. Friamuth. Friar Muth. Yes. Friar Muth. He is sort of consensus round one. And then after him is Brevin Jordan. After him is Hunter Long. After him is Tony Pallgen. So I don't know if you guys have any takes there. None of them are Kyle Pitts, but could these guys, be viable fantasy options? Who's your tight end two? Who's your tight end three?

Are they even sniffing, you know, your top 15 picks of a rookie draft? What do you guys think? Well, I think Friar Muth is going to be the second tied end coming out just because it was blocking ability. And he's baby gronk, you know, he's, it's going to be a tough label to live up to. But he, the guy's got phenomenal hands. And, you know, he's not going to. blow anyone away with his 40 ton. But it just, you know, the fact that he's able to block and, you know,

he's going to be across from edge defenders and, you know, able to separate there. It just, it creates quite a bit of a, you know, it opens up a lot of things for, for teams. And he'll fit better into the NFL, you know, pro style offenses. But I, that's not to take anything away from Brevin Jordan. Now, the only thing, I think Brevin Jordan would be. be up there with Pitts if he didn't have such an injury history. The guy just, you know, he can't stay on the field. But when he is on the field, man, he looks, he looks just as good as Kyle Pitts, in my opinion. And I'm not saying that he is, hey, careful, I'm not saying that he's, you should draft him,

uh, around the same spot as Kyle Pitts. But athleticism wise, Brevin Jordan's got Kyle Pitts beat. Um, it's just that he, he, he, every little bump in. bruise he takes just sidelines him for two, you know, a game or two. So, but as far as, you know, he was the number one tied in. I mean, he had a just five star rankings. And we're talking, this guy was, and plus he played at a top 15 high school, Bishop Gorman, you know, prep school. Screw, screw Bishop Gorman. I'm from Las Vegas. That was my rival high school. Screw Bishop Gorman. I love it. Like, sorry, man.

And fuck them. We beat them in the playoff game, too. We beat that fucking monster of a team that had DeMarco Murray on that team. Yeah, they just go out and recruit. Yeah, it's not like they're playing their, their loss, they're Nevada guys. They're pulling guys from all over the country. I agree with,

I agree with Wes. Faributh is, he's good. And if you go back to the 2019 game versus Ohio State, they lined them up in line. He was in the slot. He played out wide. he's very versatile he's huge he's physical he's got great hands i think he's a baseball player too there

was some fear that he was going to leave and go play major league baseball but came back to pen state he's phenomenal jordan's great i think he's probably the most athletic tight-in but he's always hurt he's always hurt always hurt hunter long is is apparently doing very well at the senior ball he's a solid tight-in and then i like kenny uboa out of ommes is my fifth-rank tight-in kenny uboa athletic guy from old I think he's kind of a sleeper prospect. I'm hearing he's showing well at the senior bowl as well. So I think the biggest takeaway, Scott, is the tight ends in 2020 were horrible. The tight ends in 2021 have a lot of talent and we're going to actually want to draft them in leagues this year.

Yeah. And I like you, Boa, too. He played at a top 100 high school, Parkland in Pennsylvania in Pennsylvania. And Hunter Long, I didn't know we were going that deep. Yeah, love Hunter Long. another he's he's he's right behind friar meuth as far as the uh the overall tight ends the guys that can block the guys plus his hands are just just as good as friar mutes um you know he he didn't he didn't get much of a run is is uh two years ago prior to uh the regime change but this year

he looked great didn't didn't get as much exposure at the end of the year but yeah and and you know and he came out he didn't have a whole lot of uh support for for his game and uh but uh yeah he's done, he did really well, really impressed me this year. Fryer-R-Muth, what are we thinking like a, a Colquomet type of tight end, like mostly in-line? Yeah, you're not going to see him. Yeah. You're not going to see him out wide as much.

You know, he's definitely more like a Hawkinson type guy. All right. Yeah, I'm just going to throw this out here. feel free to bat it down or whatever. But two guys who popped in my tight end model last year, Charlie Kohler, Brandt Kuyth. Brant Kuth, he's going back. Yeah, and Kolar's going back. Both of those guys are 2022s now. Yeah, yeah. The other guy that might impress, he showed up with some good athleticism at the Nike

Invitational played at a decent high school. Wasn't a great high school. but has has a skill set Tommy Trembled, Notre Dame. You know, obviously he was put on the back burner by a true freshman this year, but that was a really good true freshman. So that's, you know, nothing to be, you know, feel bad about. But yeah, he might be somebody. And then Noah Gray at Duke. He's a guy that he's got some talent.

Carrie Angeline, NC State, six foot seven, big dude, another good blocker, was a four-star coming out. And Matt Bushman would have liked to have seen more of him with Zach Wilson this year. And outside of those guys, I don't see anything. It's pretty much the top five. I'd put tremble up there with Longpitz, Jordan, and Fryer Muth. Yeah. And I mean, my selfish focus, again, is just basketball.

Like, which rookie should I prioritize in the later rounds? and, you know, tight ends, rookie tight ends, almost always underperform. That's also another great reason why you should, you know, it makes sense to fade rookie tight ends in your rookie draft and then draft them cheaper after disappointing rookie season, which is what tends to happen. You'll get them at a cheaper value. I think Kyle Pitts just breaks the mold in every regard,

and so I'm drafting him and just everywhere I can. But we'll see. let's move on to the running back position. I think Brevin Jordan could also impress if he stays on the field. 90% of my leagues are tight end premium and just my favorite. So he is skyrocketing up my rankings and he's going to be for sure round two target for me. So moving on to the running back position, basically consensus is almost evenly split on who the RB1 is, whether you go by,

Maramaya, Brugler, Kuyper, the PFF guys, Danny Kelly, whoever. And that's between Travis Etienne and Najee Harris. I have my headphone in. I'm going to run to the bathroom. So I'm going to hear everything you guys are saying. But who is the RB1? For me, I tend to just break the tie from a fantasy perspective on whoever is the better pass catcher. And from what I'm getting, the vibe I'm getting is Najee Harris earning earning Matt Forte comps. But you guys tell me, we'll start with Ray. Who is the RB1 in this class? All right.

Wes, I saw the reaction to the past catching thing with Najee, but to me, it's not close. It's Najee Harris. It's Najee Harris for me, personally, it's 6-2-230 pounds. The dude is an athlete, number one player in California in 2018. number two overall recruit in high school in the country comes in.

He has to battle some NFL running backs, Josh Jacobs, Damian Harris. He has to deal with that for the first couple of years of his career, but you saw it towards the end of the 2018 season. You saw the talent. And then in 2019, he just took off with that Alabama Crimson Tide team. To be that big, to be that agile, his vision is outstanding. He's powerful. He can catch the ball on the backfield.

he's versatile. He's not just a dump-off guy, Alabama, to watch him use, to watch them use Najee Harris in the slot, motion him in the backfield, have him run routes out of the backfield. He's just, he's a man. He's a man playing against boys in college, and we saw that. And I get a lot of people talking about his age. I don't care about his age. One contract. And if he's a first round pick, four years, fifth year option. If he's a second round pick you got four years of nausea Harris. I just, I really don't think it's close between he and Travis Eton. I prefer my running backs not to run right into the back of offensive lineman. Travis E.T.N. Whatever way he's going, whatever direction he's going when he gets the ball, that's probably

the direction he's going to end up going. I just, I don't even have Travis E.T.N. is R.B.2. I understand back-to-back, 1600 yards seasons. But when I turn on, when I watch the game, outside of the speed, outside of the acceleration. And Travis E.T.N. has good contact balance and can catch the ball. I just prefer Naji Harris a lot more than I do Travis ETN. Well, I wasn't when I made that face, it wasn't in saying that I think ETN is the RB1. It was that I just don't think it's that clear cut as between who's the best pass catching back. I think it's pretty even.

But, you know, you definitely are going to take Naji Harris as your RV1, and we're going to see it work out that way in the NFL. I mean, he's going to be the first running back off the board. I have E.T as the RB2. If he had come out last year, he would have been the first running back off the board. I think it hurt his stock a little bit, staying. He just didn't look like the same guy that we'd seen in previous seasons. I think both Harris and E.TN, you know, Harris was, I mean, he blew my mind with his, his yak ability or yards after contact against Ohio State. It was just, I mean, you know, he didn't have a great game. He only had like 70 some yards.

But man, it took, it took, you know, three, four guys to bring him down. He was spinning. Yeah, he was, he was phenomenal in that game. and he's the only five-star guy in the class in this this 2021 class at running back. So yeah, I mean, he's just, he reminds me a lot of Derek Henry. I mean, actually more mobile, better maneuverability. And, you know, but ETIN, I think, I think we've yet to see the best from him. I don't know what was going on this year. He was not the same guy. He fumbled several times.

I don't know what was going on. I just just wasn't the guy that put up, you know, video game numbers last year. So, but I'm interested to see who you have is your RB2. I'm going to take a stab. It's not Trey Sermon, is it? Absolutely not. Oh, okay. No, and you make a good point.

He wasn't the same. And here's my, and I was talking to Matt Kelly about this. Coming into the season, I think he dropped weight and he was up 200 pounds. I believe there is a report that he was like, like 199. I just, I don't see him being the, and I know this term, we use this far too much and what does it even mean anymore, a bell cow, because you don't have to be a bell cow to be an RB1 in fantasy. I understand that. I just don't think ETN is going to bang like that. I think you're going to want to use him in space. If I were going to comp him, which I don't like

doing that often, when I comp players, I feel really strongly about it. He reminds me of like an Austin Eckler type and I don't know if he's as good as Austin Eckler I just don't he his vision is horrible he's horror he has no lateral quickness he's got great acceleration and speed and his receiving definitely ticked up but if you if you watch how he got the ball and I know in fantasy we don't care uh I just I think it's a I think it's a big gap between Najee Harris and Travis ETN yeah I wouldn't argue against that I but you know we're looking at a guy with with 4-4 speed compared to a guy with 4-6 speed. I think they're, you know, completely different players.

And, you know, but, yeah, he's not, he's not a bell cow. That's for sure. Who's not, Etienne? E-TN, yeah. Yeah, yeah. How are you defining belcal, though? Just somebody. That's what I, that's, he's not going to, he's not going to, you're going to, you're going to use him with somebody else.

He's not a Derek Henry. He's not somebody that you're just going to give the backfill to. Then from a fantasy perspective, this is easy. It's Najee Harris. Yeah, R.B.1. Absolutely. No question. There's no argument for many of us here.

Beautiful. Beautiful. What about the RB3, the consensus, easy RB3. Well, RB3 for Ray is ETN. Yeah, we already talked about him for me. We talked about it. And your RV2. You want to say it?

Is who? Who is it? Who is it, Scott? same team as RB5 Javante Williams Javante Williams I got him at RB2 man I got him at RB2

You're not the only one 220 pounds I just I just I'm just watching it and I like what he can do and he can catch the ball He's demonstrated that He's a belt He is a belt

He's the type of guy that you can bang that you can give him the ball 20, 25 times At 220 pounds Now he was never able to take the backfield away from Michael Carter, who's got some juice himself. But Michael Carter, when Javanta Williams came in, Carter was already there, the incumbent,

and Carter's pretty damn good in his own sense. But both of those guys were fantastic running backs. But when I'm looking at what they do well and just what I think they projected to do at the next level, I like Javent Williams a little bit more. And that is not a big gap, right? To me, the gap between Naji and that everyone else is pretty big. Williams, E.T.N. I wouldn't argue it if you said, Ray, you're dead ass wrong.

It needs to be Travis E.T. and I wouldn't argue that, but I like Javanta Williams profile just a little bit more when I'm watching the tape. I don't know about my model because, like, again, I'm in love with my model.

It is a super model. It is beautiful. But most models would just completely whiff on Javante Williams because, again, you know, he barely out-touched Michael Carter,

who, by the way, is the consensus RV-5. But then again, you could say the same thing about Josh Jacobs when he was at Alabama. You can say the same thing about Alvin Kamara when he was at Tennessee. So a good model is going to look at the things like mistackles forced PFF grade.

By the way, Javante Williams coming off the best mistackles force per touch and PFF grade season in PFF history, PFF college history since 2014. And those are, I mean, PFF grade, not as much, but mistackles forced. one of the best, most predictive, stickiest stats out there. You're not alone, Ray. My dynasty partner, one of the best, you know, dynasty player, probably the best dynasty player, in my opinion, is T.J. Calkins. He is Giovante Williams. It looks like RB2.

He even flirted with the idea of him as RB1. You release your best dynasty player rankings anywhere? I mean, he's just the guy I team up with for. Yeah, I know. I'm just kidding. He's dope. TJ's dope. TJ's dope.

And he knows his stuff. All right. So, Jvante Williams, is that your RB3, Wes? What are your thoughts? No,

no, he's, he's my RB5. I've got, I've got Sermon is number three. All right. All right. So,

so I need you to dump on Javante and then sell us on Sermin. No, I love Javante. I think, you know, the difference between RB3 and RB5,

isn't that much. I just, we're talking about bell cows, the guys that we know can handle, you know, the load. I mean, Sermon single-handedly took Ohio State into the playoffs. Without him, they weren't going. The running game was, you know, I hate to knock on Master Teague. I think he's a good, I think he's a good running back, but he's not a game-changing running back. And, you know, it blows my mind to think that he was sitting as the RB2 on Ohio State for that. that long. But man, when they started giving him the ball, he was, I mean, he single-handedly knocked Northwestern down from a top 10 run defense into, you know, I think in the 40s. It was in one game. And then, and then what he did against Clemson was, you know, another top 10 run defense.

So, you know, he doesn't, he doesn't have the, the, you know, let's look at Javonte. What did he do? Notre Dame shut him down. I mean, to me, that's the type of defenses he's going to face every week. I think he's good. I think he's got the wiggle. I think he's got the speed. He's got the hands out of the backfield. An NFL team's going to love to have him.

I just don't think he's game changing. I think he's, you know, somebody that, that, you know, is definitely going to be a great compliment for an NFL team, but not somebody you're going to hand your backfield to. My RB4, though, I can already tell you guys it's not going to be the same as raised, for sure, but as anybody else's either. So, so Trey Sermon explained to me why 2019 Kennedy Brooks saw three times as many carries. Ramandri Stevenson saw more carries was far more efficient, more productive. Every guy has a type.

You know, some guys like him thick. I like him. I like him thick, you know, downhill, aggressive runners. Remandre Stevenson is exactly my type. He is one of my biggest sleepers. Like, I just love watching this guy run and run over people. But you're all Trey Sermin. I don't get it.

what well i mean go watch go watch when when he have the ball at ohio state look what he did against michigan state look what he did against northwestern look what i mean lincoln riley's a smart guy if if but lincoln riley wouldn't give you know tray sermon the ball over kennedy brooks like what's going on there that you know it was a it was a last year they had they had jalen hurts it was hard for any of the uh the running backs to really stand out he ran the ball so much and they split their backfield. If you played college fantasy and you had Kennedy Brooks on your team,

you were very disappointed. It didn't matter what running back got the ball. You couldn't play them because they split the backfield carries what was left over after Hertz got his 150 rushing yards. You couldn't do anything with what was left. He tore his ACL too. He was also hurt. And that's what I was going to say.

He's a guy that struggled with injuries. And then, you know, he comes out against Alabama and breaks his collarbone on the very first play. So, I mean, you know, that's something that we'll need to look at, you know. But, you know, if he tests well, then as far as a guy that can handle 25, 30 carries, I think it is the closest guy to Najee Harris in this running back class as far as his ability to work after contact is Tray Serman. Right. So it seems like there's not a lot of consensus. after RB one.

The experts have it. Etienne, Harris, Giovante, Gainwell, Carter. Wes, you said you're not

going to have the same RB4 as Ray. Who is your RV4? Just say the name. J.B. and Hawkins, Louisville.

Oh, wow. I like Hawkins. I like Hawkins. I don't like him at four, but I like Hawkins. We're talking four three speed at 200 pounds.

I mean, This guy can burn. No, no, no, no. Hawkins is 180. He's 180 something. I haven't listed as 196. No, there's no way. There's no way, Javion.

That's his official listing. That's... He's 5'9. Louisville's cooking the books. Louisville's cooking the books. If that's the case, it might, my opinion will change. If he's at 200 pounds... That's an insane speed score. That's like Braden Jacobs.

Louisville, right. now on louisville site they have him 59182 well see i the the information i got he's 59 196 i got him at 182 on on louisville site and that's why i have him so low is because he's 182 are you allowed to say your source west no i'm not going to all right yeah uh all right uh who is your RB 4, Ray. Jamar Jefferson. I don't even know who that is. Oregon State.

Oregon State. Where do you have? 596. That's what I have. I can't give my source, but it's a trust of course. But you're right. If he's at 180, no way.

I'm not looking at a little scat back as my RB4. I'm talking a guy that can take 20 carries. You know what I mean? Let me tell you something, Wes. If he's checking in 190, 195, 200, I'm going to move him way up. And the only reason I have him so low is because I'm basing it off of this Louisville thing at 182.

But if he's 195, 200, he's moving up for me. Well, think about this. He's 5'9. He's got a 41-inch vertical. Oh, he's a freak. He's a freak athlete. I mean, we're talking, he's got a 395 shuttle. He's a freak athlete.

He may be the freakiest athlete in this running back class. that doesn't mean much if you're 180 pounds, you know? You're only going to get 10, 15 carries at that size. All right. So for the folks at home, when you're hearing all this stuff about athleticism, athletic measurables, like it matters. It's important. Spark score is like the worst dad ever invented.

It's just like garbage. But apparently he's taking the senior bowl by storm and those, you know, just like the wide receiver slash tight. then hybrids are so sexy for fantasy. So is the RB slash wide receiver for fantasy. Ideally, he's a running back. So Demetri Felton or Ramadry Stevenson as late round basketball sleepers. Any thoughts, Ray?

The fact that Stevenson was listed at 6 foot 247 and he checked in at 511, 217, he skyrocketed it on my board. I mean, in my personal, at 511, 227, and I'm watching him. I don't know if Oklahoma listed him wrong or what, but to drop 20 pounds and to look the way he looks now, he's a hammer that can catch the ball. He's got speed to have that type of size. I think he's a four or five type runner.

Big time fan of Stevenson. I'm from the West Coast, so I watch fucking Pac-12. So Demetrick Felton is no surprise. Like he was good as hell at UCLA last year, and in their abbreviated season, he was fantastic. 189 pounds. We're not going to get Antonio Gibson because he's 189.

And, you know, in season, he's probably playing at about 185. So that's a little concerning. But if you like those type of running back, Scott, then you got to love Kenneth Gainwell. And now I'm leaving it at that. You should love Kenneth Gainwell. I need to watch some tape. Thank you.

What about you, Wes? What do you think? Yeah, I love Stevenson. I've got him as my RB7. One guy that I'm shocked that I'm not hearing anything about is Jared Patterson. And I think he's, you know, small school. He's outside the Power 5 and something I usually avoid unless I've seen just, just outstanding abilities in Devee leagues. But that's exactly what I've seen.

Patterson is a guy that is going to just change everyone's minds really quick when he gets the ball. This guy just could not be stopped. And that's exactly what we want to see, you know, from a guy playing. in these, these smaller conferences. And I love him. I'm, you know,

also like Carter and Gainwell. You know, I would have liked him to, to stay another year. But, you know, he'll be young and, and, and, you know,

nothing wrong with that. But, yeah, he's definitely a multi-dimensional guy. And then I think Felton, I mean, he's, he's got some, he,

you know, similar size to Hawkins, but guys got four, six speed. He's got better hands. that's for sure. But, you know, it'll be interesting to see how he's used. And then Jefferson, yeah, Jefferson's going to. Were you getting the four, six speed from? That's what he did at the Nike Invitational. Four six two. What? 18 years old? 17 years old. Hey, what, where else are you getting

your 40 times right now? Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's the thing. Projections. Yeah, I wouldn't focus too much on that. Am I focusing too much on that? I'm saying that that he's not a, guy that that's that's a burner you know wasn't at 17 i you know i'm going off of official 40 times we've got no other that's why that's why you've been having this discussion prior to the combine really doesn't make a lot of sense i i just mean i i kind of want to just severely discount that or almost throw it out entirely just because you know these guys are like barely through puberty it's four years ago i i know there was like one guy who ran like a four three one at the Nike and then ran like a 4-6-8

Salvin Ahmed. Salvin Ahmed, yeah. But by the way, I mean, like he was actually pretty good. So, or production at least for fantasy. Justin Jefferson had a verified 488 coming out of high school, verified 488. That's a great example. Hey, I'm not saying that it's science and that we need to, you know, look and draft these guys based off of that.

I'm just saying it's the information. I'm using the information that I have available to me. Right. All right. So we have limited access right now. And guess what? This year, we're going to have a lot of limited access when it comes to athletic measurables.

Because guess what? There's no combine. And that sucks because this is our way to get uniform athletic measurables. I'd love if we could incorporate the squat into like the combine and some like other, you know, better, you know, metrics than what we have. what it is what it is. We'll still get pro days. But we'll get pro days.

But the problem with pro days is it's been proven that, you know, your pro day time is significantly better than your combine time. Because, again, it's not uniform. And, you know, you're not going to have the, you know, you know, are you going to get the 40-yard dash at, you know, Eastern Kentucky? Are you going to get a 38-yard dash? Like, you never really know.

There are some teams, like, I'm not going to throw out actual names, but some teams use, they use their, what they run on is on a decline slightly. And some guys will, heavy wins. Heavy win. They'll try to time pro days to having the win at their backs. So I totally agree. You need to do these things inside closed stadiums. Otherwise, yeah, the numbers just aren't going to be reliable on speed.

Yeah, so numbers this year are going to be way less valuable, way less useful than they've been in the past. How are you going to factor that in, Scott, because everything is going to be pro day times. And I mean, you know, one one player's running indoors, one player's running on. How are you going to factor that in? I mean, teams will be using these Nike invitational times because they've got nothing else other than these pro day times, which do they really give them that much, a credence? Well, one thing I'll say is, so the 40-year dash is like such a garbage stat overall. Like, how often are you running 40 yards in a straight line without pads untouched? And it's rare as fuck.

A great stat is just like using those GPS trackers and looking at, you know, top time, you know, maybe in and out of a route or, you know, ideally untouched. But again, that's rare and that doesn't, it's not super useful. but like just having that game speed is way more valuable than 40 yards speed, 40 year dash time at a combine. And I know a lot of NFL teams do try and leverage that. And we all have access to that now. And ideally we'll have access to it at some point. But I will just say, I think, you know, the combine is massively overrated within the dynasty community,

within the fantasy community. And within like the draft community, like you just look at, you know, oh, I had a tweet last year. It's like, okay, C. land is elite, but Henry Ruggs is fast, and that's why he's going to be the first wide receiver drafted. And lo and behold, that's exactly what happened. I think teams just like don't know which events are the most valuable. And then he just still massively overrate those events anyway when it's like, like route nuance, like how are you running a route? Like you're not running all out

in a straight line, you know, you're trying to juke a guy out of his shoes. So you want precision, timing. So I do think the combine is overrated to a degree, but my model factors in, I think, how it should be appropriately rated, and then just this year, I'll, you know, I'll rate it even less. You have any thoughts, Ray, on just the combine and measurables?

I think a lot of that shit is overrated. I mean, 40, you see a bunch of players that don't run. What's James Robinson's 40 time? I mean, I'm pretty sure for certain positions, you want to have some speed, right? You don't want a four, seven corner out there, ideally. But overall, I think it's just, I think we just get excited to see stuff, you know,

but some of the events, like I did ask some data people to tell me, was there any correlation to fantasy success from a 10-yard split, opposed to the 40-yard dash? And some of the guys that looked at it said, not really, it wasn't much of a difference. But, I mean, I'm more concerned with the burst, like, you know, in and out of the three-cone. Just little stuff, man.

I just think it's, I think 40 time, that just by itself, 40 yard dash time is is overrated quite a bit, in my opinion. I think we just like the combine. It's football. Bench press, who gives a shit about how many times you get bent? How many times a wide receiver can bench. Right. Exactly.

I just think that's kind of silly, man. It just, I mean, but with like offensive linemen. Yeah, Wes? I was just going to say, if we don't use the information, then, I mean, we have to use what the numbers on the field. And, you know, it's, it's, it's tough. You know, you could say, oh, I'm a purist. I just look at tape.

I don't look at the analytics. Or you could say, I, you know, I'm an analytical guy. I just look at the production on the field. Or you could say, you know, I'm into the athleticism. But, you know, at the end of the day, you still have guys that are doing well despite all those things. And it makes us all look stupid. You know, I mean, it's, it's, it is what it is. and we have to, you know, use the information we have available.

I just wish because there are some, there are some services out there that do track in-game speed. They track how fast wide receivers come out of break. They track how fast, like, I just think there are some better ways to do things, and I wish the NFL would adopt them. And like, let's see when running backs, you know, get the ball. How fast do they get from, you know, the handoff to the second level? I just think the end-game speed is far more important.

important than 40 time. But I mean, you're right, man. We got to use the information. I just think there are some better ways. Well, they have that information. The Amazon, whatever trackers that they wear, they have all that information. We just don't have access to it. The NFL teams do. I put together a process that that did exactly that using coaches film and using yard markers to track speed for play. players for offense and defense. It was right before I left PFF. I don't know if they're going to incorporate it, but they loved it. And they have a contract with Amazon Web Services, and that's where they pull a lot of their information. All right.

Wes, you blow my mind every single time. That's incredible. Ray, you said something about the 10 yards split. All right. This is a good segue into wide receivers. Belichick has a quote where he said speed only matters for wide receivers in relation to their ability to escape the line of scrimmage. With that in mind, here are the top five wide receivers by 10-yard split over the last three combines. Number one, Henry Ruggs, I mean, like obviously.

like fastest 40-year dash ever or whatever two cd lamb three kj osborne okay it's not going to be perfect every time four dk metcalf five jerry judy i think it's pretty good last three combines i'll take it i'll take it i mean that you store by 40-yard dash and it looks a lot worse I mean, in my novice analytical opinion, I'm more concerned with the first 10 yards than 40. I mean, there are more 10-yard plays than 40-yard play. So, okay. All right. Well, we're going to talk about some guys who can eat up a 10-yard cushion real quick.

But I will just give to you the expert consensus top five wide receivers. And we'll take it from there. Number one, Jamar Chase. Number two, Devonta Smith. Both guys, pretty much unanimous, like basically top eight picks overall. Jalen Waddle, Cadarious, Tony, number five, Rashad Bateman, just for fun, six, Terrace Marshall, seven, Romdale Moore, Elijah Moore, two, two, Atwell. And then that's all we'll go from there. But we'll just stick to maybe the top three or five, depending on how much time we have. So Jamar Chase put together one of the most ridiculous seasons ever by a 19-year-old. Granted, he had, according to West, maybe the best quarterback to come out in the past four, seven years. But again, it was a 19-year-old season,

and like any model for wide receivers worth its salt doesn't give a fuck about 40-yard dash time too much. But what it really cares about is age adjusted production, age adjusted numbers. We talked about Najee Harris. Doesn't matter for a running back. Matters greatly for a wide receiver. Why is that? It's like these guys are going up against grown men cornerbacks and like they're not fully developed. They're not very experienced. So if they could do this as a freshman or a sophomore or as an 18 year old, 19 year old, it's like playing with one arm tied behind their back. And guess what? If you're putting up 1,500 yards with one arm tied behind your back or at 18 years old, you're going to be freaking awesome at 20 years old, 21 years old, 22 years old.

So that's the thinking there. And like, again, a historically great season. I talked to my tape guys already about this, about Jamar Chase. And we'll get to the Knox on Devontas Smith because there's quite a few. But Jamar Chase, my film guys, Wes, I'm talking about Brett here. I'm talking about a few others that you know, said they were not wowed. They expected to be wowed and they were not wowed. He struggles to get off press. Daniel Jeremiah disagrees. But he says, Jamar Chase struggled to get off press, struggle to separate, separate.

And if that's true, how do you put up the numbers that he put up? I hate, I, like my arc, the archetype wide receiver that I hate is the wide receiver who just doesn't get massive separation. Because, like, who is that? That's JJR Sega White Side. It's like every bust over the past five years. It's tread well. It's just, like, the jump ball receivers.

How often does that translate? But I mean, again, numbers ridiculous. Also, I way, dug in way too deep. Like, I'm lost. Like, we were talking about, like, draft heads over-analyzing Justin Fields. I looked at his Instagram. His Instagram is all pictures.

of him in front of cars, not him, you know, practicing running routes every day. So, like, I'm way too, to deep into this. Ray, talk some sense to me. Where are we at with Jamar Chase? Is he the wide receiver one? How much of a lock is he? So he's going to be the first wide receiver taken, probably. Like, he's probably going to happen, right?

And I'll start with the positives. I mean, you don't go for 1,700 yards in the SEC by accident. And then you don't do that, you know, LSU's 20. 19-19 team is the greatest offensive team in college football history. I mean, Joe Burroughs, 60 touchdown passes, 2,500-yard receivers. Their third receiver had 13-touchdowns, a 1,400-yard running back, 55 receptions for the running. I mean, it was insane what they were able to do. And Jamar Chase was fantastic in that season.

I will, I don't know your film guys, Scott, but the guys that I interact with on Twitter who are kind of film-based analysts, we all say the same thing. He's great, but when you watch it, He's not a great separator. He's not. Justin Jefferson is the far superior separator. Jamar Chase is physical as shit. When he gets the ball, he's breaking tackles after he gets the ball.

His ability to attack the ball when it's in the air is outstanding. I don't believe, and I know West probably has his 40 time, you know, from high school. I don't think he's a burner. Just looking at him, he doesn't look like a burner. He's a physical player. He's good when the ball's downfield, but he likes to engage in contact. And that's one of the things I've never seen Devonza Smith get jammed up, ever. Like you just, you can't touch him off the line of scrimmage.

Go watch the Alabama game versus Trayvion Diggs. And it was like there are times where he's literally inviting like physicality off the line, trying to run into the, I just, I think he's a, he's a very, very good wide receiver. I think he's a very good wide receiver. All of this talk about the. best wide receiver prospect since Julio Jones is assinine in my opinion. He's not my wide receiver one, but honestly, I can flip-flop them and you are 100% right. Age-adjusted production does matter. Every analyst that I talk to that's worth a damn that I believe in,

they tell me the same thing. Like, if you produce early, you're probably pretty damn good. If you can do that at an early age, I just, I just prefer Devonsa Smith over him, and that's where I'm at. I'm not going to change it. And I don't care about his weight. I understand he only had 600, you know, almost 700 yards as a, as a sophomore. I understand all of those things.

And if I'm on an island that I'm betting on an outlier, then so be it. That's the outlier I want to bet on. He did everything Jamar Chase did in one fewer game as the guy. When defensive teams could not, you know, it was Najee Harris, and it was Devontas Smith. And 117 receptions for 8. 100 yards and 23 touchdowns playing in all SEC schedule in one fewer game. That is insane, period.

So I don't know if I talked any sense into you. I agree with your film, guys. I see some question marks when I watch the tape. And I think people are chasing Justin Jefferson and thinking that just because I think late, I understand this argument. If Justin Jefferson was this good, how good could Jamar Chase be? But that's kind of fucking lazy to me in my. opinion. Like it's, it's, it's more than just that. So that's where I am with the two. I got Chase two and

DeVantz Smith one. All right, Wes, Jamar Chase, let's go. Well, I think it gets very lazy. If you're, if you're thinking that Jamar Jamar, Jamar Chase is going to give you, you know, Justin Jefferson type production. It's, it's just silly. I mean, if, if you ask me, Justin Jefferson is going to be in the Hall of Fame one day. He, he's one of the best. He's one of the best. man coverage wide receivers I've ever seen. And it just blows my mind watching his rookie footage. And no way is Jamar Chase on that level. No way.

But I think Jamar Chase is the wide receiver one. I love Devante Smith. What he did to Ohio State is embarrassing to me, to the team. But he did the same thing to the entire SEC. You know, I wouldn't argue taking Devante Smith number one. I just, you know, I think that we, we just want to find, we want to find the flaws in, in everybody. And instead of, you know, we should, we should let the, let the numbers tell us in the film, you know, tell us what is, you know, what the, what the reality is rather than chasing an outcome. And, you know, these are the top two guys.

That's all there is to it. And I'm not going to argue against either. All right. Well, I'll take that. I think the arguments against Chase were outlined well by Ray. I like the conviction. Again, I really have no stance here. But the arguments against Devonta, well, the argument for Devonta is easy.

I mean, he just won the Heisman as a wide receiver. I mean, when was the last time that happened? He, you know, put up, what, 350 yards and like four touchdowns in the first half of the championship game? Like, how often does that happen? You know, no one was able to cover him at any single point this season. The arguments against him, I mean, you know, Waddle outproduced him before his injury this season. Low BMI. You want to talk about sticky and stuff.

important stats like low BMI wide receivers suck. Like every time anyone wants to hype up a low BMI wide receiver, they never pan out unless they run a 40-year dash like a Deshawn Jackson or they're literally Marvin Harrison, otherwise the all busts. It's just like the track record is insane. The sample size is huge. You know, Bama wide receivers. He's old late breakout age. But again, I mean, just look at the tape, look at, look at the Heisman, look at the championship. So those are all the, that's basically the extent of the Devontas Smith debate. I didn't watch enough tape, but I'm sure West did. So, so Wes, is he a sure thing?

Is he a top 10 pick? Yeah, for sure. He's going in the top 10. His pre-snap movement, just the way he's able to manipulate, you know, the guy, in coverage and then and the thing okay look going back to chase what makes him so good is isn't that isn't his really his separation off the line i'm not really worried about that what makes guys like um um what's i'm sorry at green bay wide receiver what's his name davontay adams yeah um what makes him so good is how he's able is his ability to manipulate the safety um yeah he can he doesn't have and he doesn't

have game breaking speed. He's got speed. But his ability to defeat, you know, these cover one, cover threes is his ability to manipulate the safety who's obviously leaning towards him. And his pre-snap movement, that's a huge part of that. And that's same with Devonte Smith. I mean, he made Ohio State look ridiculous, like they weren't even covering him. But it was because he was manipulating his cornerback and the safety. And he was already open before they snapped the ball. And it's just, it's ridiculous what Smith is able to do. But, you know, playing in the SEC that both of these guys face the same type of coverages,

the cover one and cover three heavy of these NFL style defenses. And, you know, you get outside of the Power 5 and you're seeing a lot of cover four, a lot of teams playing a lazy football. I hate to call it lazy. but it's just really soft coverage. But when you get into the Big Ten and the SEC and the in the ACC, you see a lot of cover one, a lot of man coverage, a lot of cover three. And those are, those are more difficult to, you know, rack up these video game numbers.

But both of these guys did. I just, I don't see, I don't see a reason that we need to debate Smith or Chase. I think it's, I think they're both top 10 guys and they're going to put a thousand yard seasons. I'm not worried about either one of them at all. Yeah. Pick your flavor. Who do you want? You like Chase or you like Smith, draft them and move on with it. Move on, just like Justin Jefferson. You put up those numbers in those conferences. It's going to, it's going to translate to the NFL. You're going to see the same from like Chris Olavay. You're going to see the same from like a Rashad Bateman. These guys are that good. Well, it didn't, all right, yeah, love that. But all we're going to hear all season,

is just like one Jamar Chase versus Devonta Smith article after another. You're splitting hairs, man. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Hey, Scott, I got a question. I got a question for you real quick about the BMI hit rate historically. Yeah. And I truly don't know. But how many of those bust, which there probably are a lot of them, right,

were drafted inside the top 10? Like how many of them had high draft capital? Or are they guys that were drafted in like the second round third? round that were below that BMI threshold and then they didn't pan out. But how many of them actually, or does that even matter? I'm asking because I don't fucking know. John Ross. Yeah. Yeah. Give me five minutes. We'll talk about the consensus wide receiver three and whether or not he's your wide receiver three. And I'll pull up those numbers for you. So consensus wide receiver three is Jalen Waddle. And it reminds me of my take on

Henry Ruggs, which is just that it was, I thought, an egregious pick. I, you know, I, I was, you know, drooling over Jerry Judy. We both liked Jalen Rieger, but it was, why would you think Henry Ruggs is better than Jerry Judy when Tuaa Tago Voloa, when Nick Sabin, more importantly, thought he wasn't even the second best receiver on the team because you look at the numbers, look at yard per route run and uh jerry judy uh devanta smith jalen waddle all blew him out of the water like it wasn't even close jerry judy 3.31 yards for route run uh devontza smith 3.30 jaylon waddle 2.89 and apparently like waddle is this you know deep speed uh superstar which you know is henry rugs's wheelhouse but uh you know Waddle was far more productive, far more efficient, the better deep threat.

So are we admitting Henry Ruggs was a mistake? And is Jalen Waddle who we wanted Henry Ruggs to be? And how good is Henry Waddle? Ray, let's hear your thoughts. Yeah, I don't, I'm not going to argue it. I got Waddle at four. But that's probably because I'm a little biased because I just love Rondell more. but Jalen Waddle is exactly he's

yes, the pick Henry Ruggs was egregious. There's nobody, nobody in their right fucking mind besides the Las Vegas Raiders thought, I don't even think the Raiders believe that Henry Ruggs was the better player. That was just a silly pick. You say the third, at times, if you go watch Alabama in 2019,

he wasn't the first, second, third, or even fourth option at times. I mean, it just, all he did was run fast, and jump high. That's it, but we knew that. We knew coming in that Henry Ruggs had elite speed. Like, we knew that. We knew that.

He's, that's what he is, man. He's, Jalen Waddled. Now, back to Wattle. I think Waddle is fantastic. And he's more than just a deep threat guy. They get him involved in the bubble and smoke screen games.

And you just see the zero to 60 is, I think he's got the most juice from the time he's, the ball on his hands to hit top-end speed more so than anybody in this class. He's physical. The fact that he broke his damn ankle in October and was on the field in less than three months probably was not a wise decision. But even versus Ohio State, when he got the ball on those three receptions, he still had juice running around on one leg.

It's he's ridiculous. He's got speed. From the time that he's drafted, I think he's probably the most dangerous punt returner in the NFL, so you've got that special team's ability. I know we've been chasing the unicorn for like five years, right, for at least three years. Who's the next Tyree Kill? Who's the next Tyree Kill? First of all, I think Tyree Kill is one of one, so let me just get that clear.

But if there were a player that we're going to be as close to him as we've seen from making his hay on special teams to being an absolute weapon at wide receiver, I think Jalen Waddle is that player. He's the closest thing to him, comma, Tyrie Kiel is one of one. But I think Waddle is fantastic. Wes? Yeah, no, I didn't like the rugs pick either. I thought he was the number four wide receiver on the team.

But I think Waddle is before this season, I had Waddle above Smith. You know, obviously not now. You know, I would love to have seen how everyone would feel had Waddle not. not been injured and would Smith have had the same type of season, which, you know, obviously it would, we'd see less, a little less production. But, you know, it's, it, water was that good. And, and, you know, he got hurt. So we don't have as much tape. And, you know, he wasn't the go to last year. He wasn't even the, the wide receiver two on his team last year. So it's tough. I you know the injury definitely dropped him out of the you know probably the top 10 he'll probably go top 20

but yeah I was I was I was a little surprised to hear that you have Rondell as number three I love Rondell and and and you know he's he's on the smaller side and he's got that blazing speed I mean nobody's got the wiggle that Rondell has and you know I love the guy but he cannot stay on the field I just can't Imagine what NFL contact's going to do to him. Yeah, it's that, I mean, his freshman season, you know, Scott was talking about what Jamar did at 19. What, Rondale did at 18 on a horrible Purdue team was just an air raid offense, which does worry me a little bit. It's historic for an 18-year-old to do what he did. And then to start the 2019 season, he was on a torrid pace to go ahead and do it again.

And then if you watch the play versus Minnesota, it was a freak injury that he, and every medical doctor, Edwin, Edwin is my guy. I got other medical people. Yeah, Edwin, they say the only reason he didn't blow his knee up is because he's so damn strong. Because nine times out of 10, that should have been an ACL tear. But he didn't. It was a hamstring injury and it was a freak hamstring injury. And apparently, according to all reports, when he opted out, opted back in.

I don't even know if he re-agravated the same hamstring or if it was a different injury, but it was, it's two hamstring injuries, and that's the only thing that I've seen. From everyone talks about this injury history, I've only seen the hamstring. And when he came back in that first game in 2020,

I think he had 15 targets, 11 receptions, and a touchdown right off of not playing for a year, you know, football. I just think that, and he's the guy, he's the counter Jamar Chase. Every Instagram post you see of Rondale Moore, it's either him graduating or him working his ass off and working out and training, squatting 600 pounds. I just think he's, he fits the new age NFL.

He's not going to play outside. He's going to be a slot guy, but I mean, we've seen a ton of slot guys thrive in the NFL, and I think he's that new prototype, you know, slot weapon that I'd prefer him to Cadarius Tony. I'll tell you that for damn sure. There's no way I'd take Cadarius Tony over Rondell Moore. Now, that makes more sense. I mean, but, you know, moving in my head of Waddle, that's the only reason I bring it up. I still, I love Rondale more.

I do. I just, it's, he's just not the type, he's not the type of game breaker that, that I think Waddle could be. That's fair. So, so one thing I will say is the NFL does and should, uh, undervalue slot wide receiver relative to outside wide receiver. I've done big, expansive tweet threads on this. I've done podcasts on this, but just slot wide receiver production and separation is far less valuable than on the outside. But for fantasy, it's all the same. And like, you know, Devontas Smith, I feel like his archetype is more of a possession receiver than a Jamar Chase.

So like, you know, more targets, more catches. Maybe he'll be more consistent and more productive. PPR, something along those lines. But I do think that's important to ask, like, if Ron Dale Moore is, you know, stuck as a slot wide receiver, that doesn't mean anything for fantasy, but it does mean something for the NFL. And that could explain why, according to consensus experts, he's wide receiver seven. But we, it seems like Wes and Ray have him wide receiver four is. No, no, I don't. I have him outside the top seven. Okay, okay.

Well, I'll just, I'll just go out and throw out the. If he had a, if he didn't have such an, if he didn't get hurt and his hamstring issue reminds me a lot of Will Fuller. Just, you know, his speed, it's like he almost outruns his legs sometimes. I don't know what the deal is. All right. Let's talk about a guy who should be injured, whose ACLs should be dust, but they're not. and that's Cadarius Tony, who Danny Kelly had a great take,

which was just like, there's no way this guy doesn't get drafted in the first round because the NFL can't let him get drafted by the chiefs, just like another ridiculous playmaker who's impossible to tackle. And if you just like watch his highlight reel, it is so absurd. Like I don't know how his ACLs don't explode because like the moves he makes are, like it really just is beautiful and it's mind-blowing. But he is really fun. And he is easily the consensus wide receiver four now being mocked in the first round.

Ray, you seems a little low on him, but I'm going to start with Wes. What are your thoughts in Cadarius, Tony? Yeah. I mean, you know, he, it's kind of like Rondell Moore in that. They'll probably be used out of the backfield quite a bit. Well, they're, they're, you know, kind of on the. the borderline of being a little scat back, but Tony's a little bit bigger. And, you know, he can, I think he can, he can take the pounding. You know, I agree, I agree with, with Danny that, I mean,

he's definitely, you know, top, top 40 pick, top 50 for sure. And, and I have him, let's see, I have him as my two, four, six, eight, ten, my, my, my wide receiver 11. After Moore, I think Moore has got a, you know, a higher ceiling. But, yeah, I think Tony, I mean, you know, playing for playing on that offense, the way they played was they were, you know, go for, go for broke at all costs. And, you know, it didn't work out so well in their bowl game. But, you know, they played, they showed us some excitement and, you know, a lot of fantasy fireworks. And Tony was a big part of that. So especially when Pitts went down.

They didn't seem to slow down without him because of Tony. And they didn't have much of a running game to speak of. So, yeah, I mean, I like him. You know, I'm not moving into my top 10 or anything. I mean, consensus wide receiver four round one. Right? This is, this is, this is, I'm just, I'm sorry, man. people, dude, some of these, some people, I just have, people need to be mindful of the content

they consume because there's no way. There's no fucking way Cadarious Tony should be, okay. Let me say one thing real quick. I've got him at Y receiver 9. I like him. I think he's a talented player. I think he's a talented player, but I'm not taking him over Rishah Bate, man. I'm not taking him over Waddle. I'm not taking him over Marl. I'm not taking him over Marl. I'm not taking him over more. I'm not, no, no. I will say this. This is a ridiculous wide receiver class. I mean, looking at the top 12 guys, which that's where I think the, the chalk are. I mean, it's to say that you're the wide receiver 11 is not a knock on a player. I mean, there are just, there's talent everywhere. I mean, it's ridiculous. It really is. Yeah. So, so I'll say this. I only really

started talking to Ray maybe a few months ago. Wes, we've been in Dynasty Leagues before. We did a dynasty startup draft in January of last year, which was like perfectly suited to his strength. He just like gobbled up like all of the top like Quintas Seafest. I never heard of that name before. He gobbled him up and like a bunch of other, you know, superstars who, you know, wildly exceeded the expectations at least in January, February, because he was he was on him so early. early, I do find value in sort of scouring the, you know, Lance Zier lines, Dean Bruglers, Daniel Jeremiah's of the world, just because like even if they're not the best talent evaluators, like maybe, you know, Wes and Ray or, you know, a cut above them,

they are sort of at least allegedly, you know, tuned into the NFL teams. They're talking to agents. They're talking to GMs. So they, many times it's not so much like where they're out of the guy. It's just what they're hearing. on a guy. But this is, I think, an important and interesting disconnect is that, okay, Wes and Ray both have this guy outside at the top eight. I had him wide receiver four, because everyone else had him wide receiver four. I'm taking him, you know, in round 15 of a basketball league. But maybe that's a mistake. Well, you know, I think that's one of the flaws in in my analysis is that I don't read into what these guys are saying because I'm not tied into

NFL teams. I'm just going off of what I see on film and what the numbers tell me. And I stick to that process. I mean, I never falter. I stick to it to a flaw. And I will say that it's probably a bit of a, I probably miss on a few guys that I could have, you know, went after that the, the big guys out there were telling me NFL teams we're on.

But, you know, it's the process that I use and I stick to it. I think that's a good point though, Scott. I think that is the disconnect, right? Because we don't have access to that information. If somebody were to tell me right now definitively, Ray, Roddena Moore is going to be a third round pick and Cadarious Tony's going to be a top 30 guy, you know, that probably would influence how I, of course it would.

but I just don't know that, right? I'm just judging these guys based off of high school in college. Like, that's all I have. High school, like what they did in high school, how that translated to college. I don't have insider scouts telling me that, you know, scouts are scared off of Devontas Smith or whatever the case may be. So it's hard to do that. And if I start to just change shit up and do it exactly like that,

well, there's no point to have me. Like, yeah, there's nothing that separates you. You don't need my rankings. You don't need my rankings. You don't need my rankings. Yeah, there's no point. I think this is a really good, this is a whole different topic, Scott. But I think, I think that's, it's interesting, man.

Yeah, well, I mean, just to clarify, that's exactly why I brought both of you guys on. Like, I did nothing. I just, like, looked at their stuff and ranked it by composite score. And I brought you guys on who are, you know, experts, film experts. And, you know, like, we want that. We don't want group think. like McShay has some like all-time egregious laughable takes like Paxton Lynch is the next Peyton Manning and things like that.

So so that's exactly why we brought you guys on to keep them on us, to get away from the group thing to point us in the right direction. Before we dig into the next wide receiver, you did ask me about BMI. And so here's what I did. I pulled up since 2001, every wide receiver drafted in round one, two, and and I sorted it by BMI. The lowest BMI guys, Snoop minus Paul Richardson,

Justin Hunter, Chris Henry, Roscoe Parrish, Bernard Berrien, Deshawn Jackson, Titus Young, and just scroll down and the only guys in the top 17 with 1,000-yard seasons are Deshawn Jackson, Will Fuller. So like basically you need to run a 4-340 or you're kind of,

screwed if you're one of these low BMI guys. Meanwhile, sort by high BMI, A.J. Brown, Josh Reed, Ty Montgomery, Leviscus, Chanel, Debo Samuel, James Washington, Greg Little, Andre Johnson, McKeel Harry, Earl Bennett, Chase Claypool, and then, you know, skipping some guys who suck, Des Bryant, Jalen Rieger, Jarvis Landry, Vincent Jackson, Golden, Golden, DJ more and all those guys are in the top 26. So there's definitely some misses in there, but there's way more hits with the high BMI and the low BMI was literally either you run a 4-340 or you're nothing. You're the former defensive back. So Ray, I just like to hear your thoughts there. Do you think that's an inability to escape from press coverage, an inability to

stay healthy and maintain, I mean, like Cole Beasley is a low BMI, but that's, you know, that's different, your slot. I don't know. What are your thoughts? Do you have anything that just comes to mind or Wes, if you could jump in? I don't know, man, because I'll tell you this. And I had this conversation with the guy that's down at the senior bowl now that played quarterback in college.

I can tell you we were more, I was more nervous about facing the guy that was shifty off the line of scrimmage that wasn't necessarily a giant. But, like, that worried me more, the guy that I knew that was. What was your archetype? Were you fast or are you big and physical? Laser time and I played, listen, I didn't play at fucking Oregon State or Ohio State. I was a Division 2 and then Division 1 AA cornerback. I did get to play with Danny Woodhead.

We were in the same recruiting class. So I did get to at least played with an NFL player and see what real 4-3 speed looks like. Laser time I was a 4-5-6. That's the fastest I ran on Laser. But in Division 2, that's moving. I was one of the faster guys out there. The receivers that we went against in practice, those dudes were running like 4, 6, 4, 7,

but they were shifty as hell off the line of scrimmage. Like, that was harder to defend than a guy that I knew was just going to try to run deep and was big. Like, I'll use the sideline to my advantage. If you're playing outside and I know you're going to do one or two things, try to go up over me or go deep, I'm going to use the sideline to my advantage and try to press you to the sideline,

get physical with you, try to get in that game. But the guy that you didn't know where he was going to, to go that was going to stop, start, shift when they run in-and-choice routes. You didn't know if they were going in or out. You were scared at the post corner. You were scared. Like, that's what, that was scary.

So those type of receivers. But again, that's one double A, division two football, you know. So I just see, like right now, you watch, I watch defensive backs get up in Mike Thomas's face and try to jam his ass. And then when Tyreek Hill is there, they're playing eight yards off the ball because they're afraid to get beat deep. So I don't know, man. It's interesting, man.

So again, I think that speaks to why the 40-year dash is like overrated again. It's like, what can you do off the line? How shifty are you? How smooth are you in and out of breaks? That's another thing about why I think it's easier to manufacture production in the slot and why, you know, it's more valuable to get separation on the outside because you have that boundary like you just said. before we go back to wide receivers, what about the NFL?

Who do you think the most difficult wide receiver to game plan against to cover? I think it's, I think it's Tyree Kill. And where would you put Tyree? I think he's the, I don't think he's the, I don't think, okay, I don't think he's the best receiver in the NFL. I think he's the most difficult to game plan for, right? Like, you know, the Rams thought they could just line up Jalen Ramsey one-on-one with Devante Adams and shut him down. I mean, you can game plan for, you can't game plan for Tyree Kiel.

You can't. You can't. You see teams try, you can't game plan. You can't game plan for that. Even though D.K. Metcalf is a freak, you can game plan him. Like, I know what he's going to do. He's going to do. Now, it doesn't always work, right? Sometimes just, but you can't coach four, three, six foot four, but you could, you can't game plan for Tyree Kiel. I think he's the most dangerous I think he keeps defensive coordinators up. But how much of that is the quarterback as well? It's Tyreek Hill and Patrick Mahomes with Tyreek Hill beat Tyreek Hill on the Chargers, or not the Chargers, but the Rams or some other teams.

So I think I'm speaking in very generalistic terms right here. I'm not getting into the detail, but just based on your question, I think I would be more terrified of Tyreek Hill. Zavian Howard shut him down if he watched the. Miami game. But that was man coverage. You'll never see Ramsey and man. Yeah, I mean, I think, having a, I think having Patrick Mahomes is like with Travis Kelsey, I mean, with Tyree Kill is like such an unfair advantage. It's like the guy who can get down the field faster than anyone and the guy who could throw it down the field faster than everyone. But I mean, the guy in his sophomore season still,

you know, put together unreal numbers with Alex Smith, who, you know, was formerly just a checkdown. Charlie. So what did we have? We had we had Chase Devanta Waddle for for West. We had apologies. Chase Devante Moore Waddle for Ray. Wes, who is your wide receiver for? Amon Ross, St. Brown. U.S. and actually I was going to ask you about him, Ray,

because I know you're a West Coast, you know, I don't get to see USC as much over here. What are your thoughts on him? Because I love him. I absolutely love him. I thought y'all were going to say I was bad shit crazy because I got him at Y Receiver 5 and I'm not moving them. I love St. Brown. I know we've been hanging on a St. Brown in the NFL for like 10 years now hoping Equanimious would become something. This is the dude.

This is the guy. and the production early as a freshman, production is a sophomore, so age adjusted should be there. The film, I think he's the most technical wide receiver in this class. He's physical, and then the behind-the-scenes shit, right? He's got two brothers, one that's in the NFL and one that played at Stanford or plays at Stanford. And their dad is like an Olympic, like power, like he's just crazy machine, right? There's a special that came out on Showtime, and all three of the football players are sitting down. and the interview asked who's the better football player, right?

And Equanimia, St. Brown is kind of like, oh, it's me. And the other one, Osiris was like, yeah, it's me. And then Amin Ra is like, you know, dude, I'm the best of these three. And they're all kind of like looking at him. And he's like, and he wasn't laughing. He's like, I'm better than all of these dudes. And his brother is in the NFL. And he's just kind of sitting there like, yeah, he's pretty fucking good.

Amman Ra, St. Brown is a beast. I don't know why more people aren't talking about him. I think he's going to be an outstanding pro wide receiver. Like he reminds me of the same type of ascension that Terry McLaurin had where people were kind of knew about him but weren't talking about him. Now, I'm not saying he's got that speed. Terry McLaurin dropped a four three, which is insane. But I'm just talking about he reminds me.

When I see Terry McLaren play, I just, I can't get Amon-Ross St. Brown out of my head. I love him. Love the call, Wes. Hey, do yourself a favor. Go look up Amon-Ross, St. Brown, Max preps. Look what he did in high school playing for the top ranked high school team in the nation up against other defensive backs running four fours. I mean, we're talking the best players. Look what he, look at the numbers he put up. Something like 22 touchdowns his senior year.

This guy is unbelievable. Even playing with guys, I mean, who I love like, shoot, what's his name? Peter. Tyler Vaughn's really good. Pitman. Pitman. Yeah, he was obviously a really good player coming up. And Drake London. That's the other guy. Love Drake London. But I mean, he's the top. He was the top. He's top wide receiver this year. Even with London and Vaughn's on that team. It's another air raid. You know, and I, you know, I, you know, I worry about that. But I just, I love the, I love his electricity. He's, he's not, he's not a blazing burner. you know like waddle or Devante but yeah I mean I have Devante stock in every Devonle league that I'm in all right so so this is

by the way this is maybe Aaron Rossi Brown not Devante this is maybe my favorite live stream we've ever done this is like so much fun and it's so useful for me like especially for bestball like okay great to know I can skip over a cadarius

Tony and I can grab Amun Rae St. Brown in the last round every single time in profit. So if you're listening to this, like, super valuable. You want to just like dominate a dynasty league for forever. Do a startup tomorrow and just like have all the rookies in it and load up on these guys. Take advantage of their genius. All right, Wes, who is your wide receiver five then if Amun Rae St. Brown is your wide receiver four? Yeah, I got four guys coming out of the SEC and it's Terrace Marshall Junior. Yeah.

Five star coming out of high school number two, wide receiver in their ranks. You know, he's got, he's got speed. He's got, he's got size. I mean, he's, he's the full package. He just, he doesn't have that, that game breaking, you know, ability that, that Chase brings. But that doesn't mean, he doesn't mean. he's not a future NFL player. I don't have the numbers in front of me.

I think he played a little more out of the slot than Chase did. But I know he plays on the outside as well. So he's not going to be limited there. Yeah, I'm excited to see what he's going to do at the next level. You have any thoughts there, right? I love it. I got Terrace Marshall at 7, man. I love his game.

I love that call at 5. I can definitely see him moving up. I think, and I believe he was the number one wide receiver coming out of going into a senior year and then broke his leg and then dropped the spot. So the only thing, I know he's had a couple of little injuries here and there, but for him to do what he did on that LSU team last year with all of that talent around him, I mean, he smashed this season and then just said, I'm done. Like, LSU was horrible and he was like, I'm done. but my five guy was armorah and we already talked about him so i'll just six i had rasha bateman so right after armad ral saint brown i have rachah bateman so uh fantastic wide receiver in minnesota playing with tyler johnson age adjusted production is there uh i think he's a very savvy player he's

definitely not a blazer not a quick twitch guy but at six two two 15 he's like a big bodied like he creates separation with with his size and he's a good route runner uh i really like Rashah Bateman quite a bit. So I got him at six, but I'm in a row with my fifth-ranked player at the position. All right. So I go ahead, Wes. Oh, I was just going to throw out the rest of my top 12. And another guy I like a lot of Sage Chirot coming out of Wake Forest. We'll see his brother drafted in the first round as well, linebacker out of North Carolina. But I also like Marlon Williams out of UCF.

Dude can ball. And I'm telling you, he's going to be an NFL player for a long time. He's going to put up some sexy numbers if he gets into the right situation. And then another guy I like that, you know, maybe everyone else doesn't, Tamori and Terry, Florida State. And then have we mentioned Tyler Wallace yet? No. Yeah. I mean, this guy put up close to.

four yards per route run at Oklahoma State, you know, came out as a top 15 wide receiver, four star, you know, guy that can can do some work, man, love him. Speaking of yards per route run, it was crazy. I think the, I think I filtered it with, I think it's like 50 targets, but only two players in college football had more than four, two players in college football, more than four yards per route run. And I believe it was DeVantza Smith and Jalen Waddle. And not only did they hit four yards per route run, it was five.

Like Smith was like 5.3 and Jalen Waddle was right behind him. It was insane. Well, there was one other guy, but yeah, it's like three guys in the top in the top of the country. And they were both at like five yards per route run, which is insane, which is why I like Matt Jones so much because he pushes the damn ball downfield. And he's not checked down Charlie. pushing the ball downfield. But my big thing, Scott West, this wide receiver class, we talked about 2020. 2020, 2021 is loaded. I mean, there are so many wide receivers. Like, just, I'm just looking.

I don't even, I don't have Sage in my top 12, but I'm looking at him right there outside the top 12. And he's a beast. Seth Williams, Tutu Atwell, Amari Rogers, you know. Brin Eagles, she Smith, Anthony Schwartz. Elijah Moore, what Elijah Moore did at Ole Miss, this season was if he played on any other team, we'd be talking about him as a first team all-American. And he did this. And then he also had freshman production on a team with DJ Moore, D.K. Metcalfe and A.J. Brown. I mean, Elijah Moore is a stud. This class is just loaded, man, at wide receiver and tight end. I mean, that's, that's great to hear from someone who has a lot of rookie draft picks this year. Yeah. I was thinking about that, Scott. You cleaned up.

Yeah, so great, great year, apparently, to have a lot of picks, which I do. Tylan Wallace was another guy. My model loved. This is going to be a stupid question. What's the status on Justin Ross? Because, like, my model was all about him. He had, like, a really serious injury, right? Yeah, he's fine.

He's going to play, but he's going back to school. What happened in this year? He just sat out all year. He sat out. He was out medical. Spinal. It was a. I'm concerned about it.

I mean, the doctors clear him so clearly he's okay, but it's just scary when you hear spinal stuff, and it forced him to not play this year. Like, I'm just happy that the kid is okay, right? I don't even know about football, but that's just scary to hear spinal stuff with the football player. It's just scary.

Well, those doctors, I mean, they're risking a lot to clear him, if, you know, if there's any chance of re-injury and the central nervous system is obviously not somewhere you want to re-injure. So, yeah, I guess the fact that he's been cleared is okay with me. You know, I have some stock in Ross and Devies. So, you know, my opinion's a little biased, I guess, you know, hoping that he's okay. But yeah, it's scary. But he won't be in this draft.

All right. Well, I think we crushed it. I think this is, I don't think you can ask for anything more. I think if you're going to do a basketball draft. I think you got the goods from our two guests who absolutely crushed it. Same for to get you started for rookie draft prep or if you're going to do a startup anytime soon. I'll end on this. I don't know if you guys have any takes, but while we were live streaming,

it's been announced that the Ravens hired their new head coach. You each get one guess. unless you already saw it. Who hired a new head couch? The Houston Texans. Oh, you said the Ravens. I was about to say. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

Yeah, I would have been crazy. Wait a minute. I'll give you a hint. He's a coach on the Ravens. Greg Roman? Nope, Wes. You got me. I'm, I'm just pulling up blanks here.

No. So if it's not Greg Roman, it has to be Wink Martindale, right? Nope. It's the assistant wide receiver coach slash past game coordinator, David Cully. I'm from New Jersey. I'm a Giants fan, but I live in Houston, and they are just incompetent. And Deshaun Watson is out the door. What is going on?

Wait, wait, wait, you're kidding. David Cully. who I've never heard of. You say Deshawn Watson, that's not where the list is going to stop. Oh, absolutely. JJ Watt, out the door. Wow. I mean, the chances of resigning Will Fuller completely gone.

Oh, I mean, they couldn't do it anyway because of the cap. But I'm just saying that they're going to lose everybody that is a. Wow. I don't say, I think, I think this was what the Dan Campbell hire was, which is just like the scapegoat slash fall guy higher where it's like, okay, we lose Matt Stafford. We're going to suck for a while. We're going to tank for three years, then get the 101, the 102, 102, 103. But Deshaun Watson's in his prime.

I mean, you can make the argument that for this kind of as well, but he's a little, he's a bit older, you know. Watson is, he's a cornerstone. Right. He's a top five quarterback, but they have a bottom two roster. But where do you want to? And no draft of rebuilding. No draft picks.

No draft picks. That's because you traded them all for Laramie Tunsell. That was a whole, wow. Wow. And the funniest thing is he's the wide receiver coach. Like, I mean, Marquis Brown, like, disappointed the hell out of me. Yeah, what is he? Wow.

Wide receiver coach on a run first offense that leans on its defense. But how much leverage does Watson have to get out this upcoming season? Does he even have any leverage to force their hand move them? I think he does in the sense that if he creates enough, you know, negative press for the team, then I think they'll just want to be done with him. I will say this. I go out of my way to read like coaches coaching interviews, like all the way down to the RB coach, the wide receiver coach, things like that. But I will say every time I read one from someone on the the Ravens. I always come away like, oh my God, they really have the best coaching staff

because like this two second year running back coach I've never heard of just like blows my mind with how intelligent he is saying like smart things, the right things. But yeah, I mean, Deshaun Watson doesn't have any leverage. If they were, if they, if it was possible for them to make the playoffs, he would have leverage because he's the only reason they're good. But they're so far behind being competitive, that what he hates the most is what gives him zero leverage. It's like they know it's a multi-year tank. They know it's a multi-year rebuild. So like having him on the team is just them finishing eight and eight.

Having him off the team means they're getting the first overall pick. They're getting, I don't know, West, tell me who's going to be the best quarterback next year? What in the NFL? Yeah, for the NFL draft. Who's going to be the first overall pick next year? Oh, it's, it's Trevor Lawrence. It's not even close.

No, you mean the following year. Yeah. Oh, now we're getting into Devy stuff. Yeah, it's a number of guys. I like Caden Slovis. I don't, I don't say it's the QB1, I guess.

I just closed. You know, probably you told me, you got Sam Hal. You got Sam Hal. You know, then there's Rattler, Spencer Rattler,

QB1. Oh, I like Rattler. Spencer Rattler. Yep. Tyler Schall. I was just going to say, you know, we sent out the message that this was going to be a Devi live stream. We've completely gone off the rails, no Devi information. So we'll have to do that again sometime.

We'll just have to run it back, man. Yeah, definitely. Because I did a ton of Dewee Dewey preparation for this on my vacation here. Okay, can we leave with the Devy Hot Tank? Like, who's your, like, number one guy? Can we do that? Like, and it's got to be hot. It can't be Rattler or some shit like that.

You got to give us something spicy. Oh, man. Well, you know, I just, I just closed down my windows. Well, okay, okay. I'll start and give you some time of the prep. Yeah, let me pull up my window again, yeah. So everybody, so my number one, I'm just going to go wide receiver for 2022. Debbie, the guy that I want to get across every Debbie league.

I know you all have heard about George Pickens, the wide receiver from Georgia, Garrett Wilson, the wide receiver from Ohio State. David Bell from Purdue, but the guy that I'm planting my flag on early, who I think is like Josh Gordon level of talent, is Traylon Burks out of Arkansas at 6'3, 230 pounds. He's projected to run 440-yard dash, his production on a horrible Arkansas team. I think he believed, I believe he had 20% market share as a freshman,

over 30% market share this season. Traylon Burks is a guy that we are going to be salivating over come next season. He's an alpha, plays outside, blazing speed, and he's a fucking monster. Traylon Burks is my guy for 2022. All right. So for 2022, yeah, obviously Rattler's my QB. Running back, it's Breece Hall. I mean, is there any argument there?

And I also like Kyron Williams at Notre Dame. Let's see. Wide receiver, you know, Drake London. I also like George Pickens. Let's see. Tide-in, man. We're after, like this year is going to milk the tied-in position in college football. Probably the best guy remaining is Eric Gilbert.

He's at LSU, but I think he put his name in the transfer portal. That gigantic, what is he, LSU tight end? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, ridiculous athleticism. What's his name? Eric Gilbert. The number one, the number one tied-in prospect of all time, according to 24-7 sports.

Yeah, he's phenomenal player. I also like Kay Sean Boote. I'm probably going to say this wrong. Booty. Boote. Oh, man. Dude. He's my number one wide receiver in 2023.

Number one wide receiver in 2023. Kishon Boote. I also like Marvin Mims, Oklahoma. What he's able to. able to do against against coverages with with multiple safeties is. And you're not? No, he's not. Marvin Mims.

I also like Gary Bryant at USC coming in with Tyler Vaughn's leaving. And of course, our boy, Amon Rae St. Brown, lots of targets available. It's going to be, it's going to be Bryant. Well, they've also got Brew McCoy. But, I mean, still. And then I also love. me some Rakeem Jarrett out of Maryland. Trey Lon Burks.

Trey Lon Brooks. He is that dude. He's in my top 10 for sure. Well, shout out to all the Debbie guys who listen to two and a half hours of dynasty content and then just got a final five minutes of Debbie. One last thing.

Are you guys hit to Quinn Ewers at all committed to, Ohio State. Scott, I live in Texas, bro. I used to live in Houston. We got to hang out. Scott, I lived in Houston for 15 years. My wife's mom lives in Houston. I'm in Houston all the time. I'm in Dallas, bro. What's better? Dallas or Houston? I've never been in Dallas. Houston and undergrad when I was single, but Dallas now that I'm married with kids. Damn. Well, Quinn, Quinn Ewers, I have two buddies who work in the industry like covering high school football. just like, yo, this guy is the shit. He has a mullet, but he is the perfect prospect.

I watched like two seconds of his highlight reel, and I'm just like, oh, my God, this guy is, he's going to be a stud in the NFL. There's no other way. But he's fun. Wes, you're Ohio State fan, you know, about your commit, Quinn Ewers, close to Dallas. You know, I've not, I've not, you're catching, like I said, you're catching me during my vacation here. I'm not even on the clock. That's true. I begs you to come on. He's good. He's good. He's very good.

I hate to say. And he's good. I hate to say I'm unprepared, but I am because. I'll say this, Wes. I'll say this because I know you know who C.J. Stroud is. I know that for a fact. Yeah, yeah. He's going to push C.J. Stroud. I'm just going to say that right now. He's going to push that kid.

Well, I don't think they brought on Stroud as if he were the quarterback of the future. Ewers has been the guy. I just, I haven't watched any footage. I have are, yeah, he's the number one quarterback and blah, blah, blah, likely to be the future at the position for him. But, you know, it's not, I'm not going to get past along opinions because I haven't seen any of his footage. Yeah. You know who recruited him, not, you or as the other quarterback? Brian Hartline, who was one of my favorite players of all time just because I made so much money in DFS off of him for like one random six-week stretch. But apparently he's the greatest recruiter in college football for your Ohio State Buckeyes.

And I'm surprised he didn't wind up with Jacksonville. I'm shocked that they were able to keep their coaching staff, honestly. And the guy I'm excited about this year, though, is Trevionn Henderson. I'm super excited, you know, with sermon going out. I mean, there's no chance. Master Teague, I'm sorry, bro. But you're RB2. Trevion Henderson is the guy in Ohio State next year.

Scott, on that hiring of the Texans, did you see the Ravens also get two third round picks in the next two drafts for the Texans hiring this guy? So they just lost two draft picks as well. That's just the- Wait, do he, Houston loses draft picks? Yes, the NFL passed a new rule that compensates teams with draft pick for losing minority staff members to head coach and other premium jobs. A team that loses minorities.

Yes. they lose they get Baltimore only gets rewarded picks Houston doesn't get penalized picks Okay okay okay okay okay got you so Baltimore Okay I was about to say he's a minority coach I didn't even know that I guess so they hired a black guy They hired a black guy let me see

Unfortunately he's gonna be their scapegoat Wait a minute he's not even Dude I don't think what is he Hispanic or something Why are they getting the picks? Yeah he's not He's Hispanic. He's not black. Yeah. Or he looks.

Is Watson staying or not? Do you stay for a Hispanic guy or? I don't think that even matters. It's not, it's not a decision that he was a part of. And that's, Scott. Um, right. All right. So, so last take and then we're all out.

Uh, you went to, where'd you go to school, Ray? Shit, how many schools do you want? How many schools do you want? Texas Southern. Texas. Texas Southern. That reminds me. Donnie Corley.

He's the guy that got in trouble at Michigan State, transferred over Texas Southern, guy that could make some noise, man. Yeah, Texas Southern. Okay. I went to Rutgers. Is there any Devy viable player on Rutgers? Bow Melton?

He's a slot. We'll see. Oh, yeah, they do have a guy. They do have a guy. Isaiah Pacheco, the running back. It's okay. It's not bad. They're best players on the defensive side.

Yeah. Isaiah Pacheco's not bad offensively. You get them off waivers when he goes undrafted. All right. Well, this was fun. This was way longer than we expected, but this was, I think, one of the best live streams we've ever had.

I think it was super informative, super valuable for me specifically. Like I said, I just wanted to cheat off of you guys, your big brains and all the work you've done so far. We definitely need to run it back on Devy, though. We do need to run it back on Devy. I'm useless for Devy.

So maybe you'll just be on your own, Wes. But if you want to brush up on Devy, you know, we have Wes contributing to that. Ray, you want to plug Destination DeVy for us and for everyone at home listening? Dude, my throat is so fucking dry at this point. I mean, just go follow me on Twitter at Ray GQ, but podcast. Destination Devi doing work with Fantasy pros, Roto Underworld, Ft N, and then

all of my content, I don't have a site or anything like that, but Patreon.com forward slash all gas. You can get access to all my rankings and cool discord and other good shit that we do over there. So I just, Scott, it's been an honor. West, dude, you, like, I love you, man.

Like, I want to get in some Debbie leagues with you. I'm so glad we met and connected through here. Your brain, dude. I just want to, like, I was thinking, about an hour ago. I was like, dude, I need to hit this guy up offline. Like, I just, I appreciate the invitation to come on, you guys. I really, really appreciate it. Yeah, I'm always looking for more Debbie League. So you, you just, you name the location and I'm in. Thanks for tuning in to this edition of the Fantasy Points podcast. Remember to subscribe,

rate, and review on your favorite platform. And come join the roster at Fantasy Points. com.