Fantasy Football Daily - 2021 Staff Pow-Wow: AFC West

Episode Date: June 4, 2021

John Hansen and the Fantasy Points staff break down the NFC West on the 2021 Virtual Pow-Wow livestream series. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

At Desjardin, we speak business. We speak equipment modernization. We're fluent in data digitization and expansion into foreign markets. And we can talk all day about streamlining manufacturing processes. Because at Desjardin business, we speak the same language you do. Business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us. And contact Desjardin today.

We'd love to talk. Business. It's time for the Fantasy Points podcast brought to you by FantasyPoints.com. Top level fantasy football and NFL betting analysis from every perspective and angle, from numbers to the film room, with a single goal to help you score more fantasy points. It's time for the eighth and final division of our 2021 virtual powwow series at FantasyPoint.com. My name is Joe Dolan, and I hope everybody's enjoyed this journey over the last couple of weeks, breaking down every NFL team from both a fantasy and a reality perspective with Adam Kaplan, NFL Insider,

and Mr. Greg Kosell, executive producer of the matchup show on ESPN and verifiable legend in the film and scouting communities. It has been a great time for us just kind of being flies on the wall of this discussion, and we hope everybody else enjoyed being flies on the wall of the discussion that we have every year as we prepare for the fantasy football season that's upcoming. Today's breakdown is of the AFC West. If you haven't checked out every other division, we've done all eight divisions. Go back on our podcast feed. Remember to subscribe, rate and review.

Do you want a little bit of a background on this series? Check out the NFC East podcast, which was our first one we did, where I gave you a little bit of a breakdown and a history of what we've done here. I hope everybody enjoyed this series as much as we enjoyed making it. And without further ado, our eighth and final division, it's the AFC West. We are moving over to the AFC West now here, about halfway done, more than halfway done, part four of the Fantasy Points.com. Virtual powwow here for 2021.

I'm John Hansen, Adam Kaplan, Greg CoSell, Graham Barfield, Joe Dolan, our guy Tom Brawley, furiously taking notes, by the way, because we're putting all the insight thrown out and together in this powwow series. We're putting it into article form there and Ben Kukakis on the other side of that glass. Denver Broncos and Adam to you, it is still weird to me that they had that chance for Justin Fields, didn't do it. Yeah. One with the corner.

Lock Bridgewater is very underwhelming. So Aaron Rogers in my mind, I guess it's still in play. Well, but officially not in play because it's not like you've seen a report that they're going to trade for him. But logically, yes, using logic, how could you not? because if you put Aaron Rogers with this receiver group and this tight end group

and their line is much improved it Mark Schlerath, our friend doesn't think it's as good as the media thinks but he admits it's at least in the upper half talked to stink a couple weeks ago about it. I talked to him last week. Okay, yeah. So look, they have a lot of offensive town. We'll see about Cortland Sutton how good he looks

coming back from the injury. We know Jerry Judy's way better than a show last year. Hamler was hurt. Okay, he's had hamstring problems. We always like Tim Patrick. So if they get Rogers, yeah, this could be a great offense. But let's just say for now that they're not. You kind of know what Teddy Bridgewater is, John.

I mean, Greg knows what the tape looks like. I know what the Panthers saw to Teddy. They couldn't get him out of the building fast enough as a quarterback. They just didn't think he's good enough. Wow. Greg. That's that. How much, maybe it's nothing.

Maybe it's a lateral move. But I personally feel like Teddy's at least a little bit of an upgrade from Drew lock. I mean, wrap your head around that. I would disagree about a million percent. Really? Wow. A million.

Million. Wow. I think Teddy Bridgewater is, and I think the league, John, you have to look at it this way. The league has told you what Teddy Bridgewater is. He's a backup quarterback. Well, I'm the guy, by the way, some of the guys on staff last shot, Lear, were into Teddy. I'm like, Teddy stinks. So just for the record, I've said that he stunked for about four years.

That said, we do not have. We don't have to interpret Teddy Bridgewater. This is not an interpretation. This is a statement of what the league believes Teddy Bridgewater is. Now, having said that, do I think Drew Locke has shown to be the guy? No, I don't. But I think he's shown some flashes that if it's between the two of them, you're going to play Drew Locke. Now, unless Drew Locke is absolutely awful this offseason, I think Drew Locke's going to be

the guy that's that's out there. Everybody knows what Teddy Bridgewater is. You do not want to put him out there as your starting quarterback. You know, and Greg, I know what Carolina thought. I'm curious when you say that, what you saw. Just to update everybody, what did the tape show you? Well, I'm also speaking to the tape, Adam.

I mean, no, I'm just asking, no, what do you? I think he's, okay. I think he's limited as a pastor. I think that he doesn't have great pocket awareness. I think he gets sacked too much. Can he move a little bit, but you wouldn't call him a true second reaction player? He just has lower level traits. You know, I think pretty much everybody would tell you he's a low-end starter and ideally a backup quarterback.

That's what Teddy Bridgewater is. The way I look at it is, and again, no offense to Teddy. I pretty much have said he stunk for about six years. You know, I'm a Vikings fan, so, you know, I'm always a little bit more in tune. That said, again, Jerry Judy playing with Drew Locke, couldn't catch a cold. Meanwhile, over in Carolina, Robbie Anderson's out there hauling in 100 balls. Yeah, but again, they're talking about fantasy, John, and I know that's what we're talking about. Yeah.

That's not really wrong. Carolina would tell you, John, that a lot of them, why the reason why Robbie Anderson do not have a high average per catch, it's because Teddy will not drive the ball downfield. He just, it could be lit. You could be standing 40 yards down field with no one covering you and he won't throw up. But they used them on those shallow crosses and alike and DJMore average 18 yards. Okay, that's fine. But they're not going to drive the ball down field.

It's a checkdown. Teddy for George's a checkdown. You're talking fantasy and that's what we're dealing with. We're not talking about the quality of the players. Yeah. I think, I think at the end of the day, maybe we could ask you this. We know they both bring negatives to the equation. it sounds like you believe that at least with Drew Locke's physical abilities and his talent and upside,

you'd rather take a shot there. That's his mistakes and deficiencies are, in your mind, maybe less harmful than Teddy's cause. What you have to try to figure out with Drew Locke is what causes the mistakes. Because he also makes him big time throws because he's capable of that. So you have to figure out, will he ever stop making the mistakes? I mean, I had a great conversation this weekend with someone about Sam Donald. And again, we're not talking Sam Donald now, but it relates to Drew Locke, who said to me,

Sam Donald threw interceptions in high school, Sam Donald threw interceptions in college, Sam Donald throws interceptions in the NFL. Is that likely to change now? And this person believed no, and it's a person who knows. So you have to decide with Drew Locke. Is Drew Locke a guy that is always going to do this? or can this be coached out of him? And I can't, none of us can answer that because we're not there.

But he's clearly a superior talent to Teddy Bridgewater. Yeah. Adam, I blame the organization. We should even be having this conversation. It should have been Justin Fields, in my opinion. Oh, yeah, I agree. Well, he's not there. Yeah.

But what, I know what you're saying, John. They obviously must. I'm with you. They can't be serious with these two quarterbacks. Right. They just can't. I know enough about both talking to people, you know, as I do, coaches in front office people. Especially since I just got Kyle Fuller.

I would bet that there were people in the know who can't stand Drew Locke. I guarantee that that's the case. It's a he's a gift. He's a gifted quarterback. You know, John, as you and I, you won that argument, one of the few that you won last year against me. You won. I was apologists for Locke and I had enough. I saw enough of them.

is like, all right. As Greg said, though, before we move on to Kansas City, the talent is there. Why he makes these inexplicable mistakes is beyond me. I have no idea. And the problem is there are too many of them. And that's, now, we didn't mention, we went to talk about Giovante Williams. I don't know this. No one's told me this.

I think Williams will wind have taken the job. I just have a gut feeling. Yeah. Taking the job from who? At some point this season. Oh, right, right. So do I? Oh, so I don't think that's a question.

Yeah, I don't, I can't tell you it's going to be with one, five, or eight, but I believe he'll take the job. And when he does, I mean, does he relegate Melvin perhaps early on to passing down work? Yeah, I don't, that I've no idea. I have no idea. Again, Robert Chavons is not a great receiver at this point. Okay. His career.

All right. So, so maybe Gordon has that role, you know? Yeah. And that, Graham, that's, that is critical. It can be very prohibitive. if you're an early down back, not getting any catches here. I mean, that could be a real problem. Yeah.

So, Greg, you didn't like, I mean, I know it was only 25 catches, but you didn't think Javonte, you think Javonte still has some work to do in that? I think he does, yes. I think his hands were not terrible. He didn't have his own hands, but I think that he was not an easy catcher of the football. Yeah. There were a few routes he ran where he got open real quick against some linebackers. Well, they ran a ton of, which they did with Michael Carter, too,

which just built into their offense, where they just run those little quick screens out to one side and the wide receiver's block. I mean, it's a design play. But he does not have great hands. Right. Yeah. He caught it. He had a couple of nice little checkdowns where, you know, the speed, the juice and all that.

But Melvin might have that edge there. Back to Judy in the passing game real quick. I mean, Greg, what you saw from Judy. Too many drops. Way too many. But it got in his head. But it wasn't an issue to me at Alabama. But he was going to ask you.

He drops. Exactly. But you could see the route running. I mean, the guy's a great route runner. When you pop in the film, like, did you call him 7-Eleven always open, Jerry Judy? It feels like he's always open. He's a really good route runner. He knows how to get open.

He's got great route quickness, great separation quickness, but way too many drops on easy, easy throws. And that has to be cleaned up or that's going to be a problem. Greg, Greg, I read a quote this morning, actually, from Judy. and he said one of the things he's been working on this off season is timing. And he thinks some of the drops he had were timing based, like where he just wasn't in the right spot at the right time. And that could also, you know, obviously be a quarterback problem. But is that something that you saw or? That's hard for me to know.

I mean, you know, when the ball hits the guy right in the hands, you know, it's hard to, you know, I can't speak to the timing, Graham. But, I mean, he had way too many really routine, easy drops. You know, he probably would have had 10, 12 more catches for meaningful yards. And then people would have said he had a great rookie year given the quarterback situation. But without, you know, without those plays, his numbers, well, they weren't terrible. They weren't, I think, what was expected. I love Noah Fant last summer, you know, a pretty good call, but underwhelming. Greg, do you view Noah Fent as, you know, a complete player?

Or is he a little limited here? straight line. He can run. You can move him around. You can flex him out. He can run. That's what he is. Yeah.

Nice player though, right? You can line him up outside like Julius Thomas back in the day, right? Oh, and he can run. You know, it's funny.

I just looked up Judy's stats and he had 52 catches for 16.5. Obviously only three touchdowns. But I mean, he would have had over 60 catches easy, which would have been a really good rookie year given the quarterback situation

if he didn't have those drops. Yeah. And then Adam, again, back to Sutton, like, I don't know, man. I don't know what to think of Cortland Sound. I mean, we're completely in the dark. I don't know. I don't know because he had, if I recall correctly, it was worse than an ACL.

It was really a bad injury. Yeah. So we have to, we don't, because we're in June, and I don't know how he's doing yet. Again, in June, we need to see him in training camp to have any idea of the kind of progress he's making. I'll have something for you guys privately on this. I'm not going to put it out on here. I'll let you know.

But, um, they are loaded with past targets. Just leave it at that. This offense with really good quarterback play could be absolutely top 10, easy with this. Jay J. Hamler is a frustrating one too. What's that? KJ. Hamler's frustrating.

He's got, he had hamstring problems in college. This is nothing new for him. He had hamstring issues last year. But if Judy catches the ball, if Tim Patrick is a good, solid backup receiver could start. Sutton, we just don't know where he is. fan needs to be more consistent from game to game. There's a lot of upset. Albert O.

Albert O's there. I mean, come on. There's a lot of... Graham. Hey, Graham. K.J. Hamler, interest you at all. It would, like, pick 227 in best ball. Yeah, it's just kind of...

It comes back to the fact that Teddy doesn't push the ball down the field. That's what we need Hamler to do. I'm thinking Rogers, though. Imagine that value. They made a deal, shockingly. Or Jordan Love. I mean, Jerry Judy, John, if they get Rogers, Jerry Judy's going to catch a hundred balls.

I mean, that's... that would be amazing. That would be amazing. That would be absurd. Adam, is it possible if Roger stays in Green Bay that Denver calls about Jordan Love? I've, again, I've no idea. You're just throwing stuff out. Yeah, and now we're just, I've no idea. Well, because, Greg, is it fair to say that Jordan Love at this point? Who'd you rather have as your quarterback of the future, Drew Locke or Jordan Love?

Even if love costs you a hundred time. We're not really going to discuss that. I have no idea. Yeah. Come on. Jordan Love hasn't taken a snap in the NFL. And I view that as a positive because you know what? I've seen Drew Locke and my corny. I don't think anybody views it as a positive in the coaching world when a guy has not taken a snap in the NFL.

Yeah. Well, it's a pretty big negative when you have and the tape you put out there is brutal. But let's move on to KC. You know, I go right back to Clyde Edwards-Alair and Grandma actually go to you. We were not all of us, but I certainly signed off on them as a number one fantasy pick. People were taking them into top five. And now all of a sudden he's a third round pick. So I'm definitely kind of looking at Clyde Edwards-Alair as a buying opportunity this year.

Yeah. And, you know, they obviously didn't do anything really with their backfield. It'll be Dorel Williams. They signed Derek McKinnon, but I think that's more just like a depth thing. You know, the biggest thing with Edwards-Alair, well, two big things is, one, his target share. You know, it was kind of, I wouldn't say it was like necessarily disappointing to see him not be super featured. I mean, he still caught balls. But.

Yeah, it was 12, 13 percent target share. He'd like to see that higher. And then the touchdowns. I mean, he, you know, he had like six or seven carries in their first game where he got stuffed with the goal on. Those carries had no chance. And then after that, they kind of just went away from him. You know, I think, I think we kind of got. you know, the Edwards-Aler hype got too high.

I mean, there was a point where he was a third-round pick before Damie Williams opted out last year, and I was, like, buying that every single time. And then, you know, he crept into the early second round. I mean, let's not forget, I mean, Edwards-A-Layer still averaged nearly 85 scrimmage yards per game. I mean, that's fine. You know, he was behind Robinson and Taylor, but in the grand scheme, it thinks his rookie year really wasn't that big of a disappointment. Was it a disappointment for the hype?

Absolutely. But, yeah, I'm with you. I think Edwards-Alair is a pretty good buy. in the third round right now. Joe, do you agree? I think he's one of the last really good running backs of the third round, him and Miles Sanders. Oh, John, I mean, I absolutely agree. And I'm prepared to get yelled at it for it. Like, oh, bro, you pushed him last year. And, you know, and now it's also permeated into the Naji Harris discussion. Like, I really like Naji Harris for fantasy this year. And everybody's like, whoa. Imagine any lazier analysis. Yeah. It's like the most lazy analysis. It's like, so, yeah, I mean,

I mean, John, we, look, Graham, Graham just brought it up. It wasn't as bad as people think it was. I mean, he had, he had exactly 1,100 yards from scrimmage in 13 games. That's not bad. But, I mean, was it a miss for us? Absolutely. As a third round pick, I'm buying Edwards Allaire every time. I mean, you know, Darrell Williams is a solid guy, but he's a guy.

Less competition, less competition. I would not, I would not, by the way, they also brought in Laveon Bell. So there was also that era that that they didn't work, but there was also the time when they were like they were trying to force Lévon Bell into the equation. And I just don't think that's going to happen this year, John. I don't, I don't think they're going to go dumpster diving and sign Adrian Peterson or Todd girl. I don't think that's going to happen this year. I'm in on Edwards O'Lair as a third round pick. I think he's not significant more upside than he showed last year. Look, it's an Andy Reid running back. You got to give the guy time. It was a it was a tough situation. coming in from the pandemic. He's really gifted this kid. And when Annie Reid signs off on a running back, it's Andy's call really in the end. Let's face it.

I believe in the player. I think he's going to be fine. I just, he wouldn't have bust at all. It just wasn't as good as we thought he would be. I think he'll be fine. I really do. I believe in a player too.

But Greg, I did have concerns. Kind of to Joe's point and Graham's, you know, maybe they didn't trust him. And maybe that's a function of the rookie year in past pro. He's not a big man.

But the short yardage, goal line stuff, that does concern me. But your thoughts on what you saw of Edwards-A-Layer last year, based on everything we've said? My thoughts are they're a passing team. And then-R-Zal-Lair is a back on a passing team. And he'll have a couple of games where he has a lot of carries. And other than that, they're going to throw the ball.

And he might have really good yards per carry numbers, but he's not going to get 280 carries. And it'll probably be more of a factor in the past game. And they're going to toss the ball over the yard like they do. because that's what they are. John, that was the disappointment last year, though. His catching only 36 passes because, you know, I don't think we projected Edwards Aller to be good for fantasy

because we expected him to get 280 carries. That was never in the range of outcomes. But just 36 catches and only one touchdown receiving was a disappointment. And that goes to, you know, get Graham's point that Darrell Williams played a lot on third downs. You know, we drafted Edwards O'Lear aggressively last year. because of the way he caught the ball in college. And, you know, just so Greg understands the context here,

Scott's done research that a target for a running back in fantasy is worth nearly three times as much as a carry is worth. We want our running backs to catch the ball. So Edwards Oler, catching only 36 passes. That was a disappointment to me. That's where the disappointment. I mean, I think Edwards O'Leary might catch more than 36, but I don't believe in this offense he's going to catch 80.

Yeah. But on another team, Greg, he'd probably be in a true, like, dual backfield. At least on this passing team, he could be their main guy. Well, he'll be their primary back, but it's a passing team. You know, the run game is a week-to-week deal with Andy Reid. It's not a foundation the way you think of teams that really line up and run the ball. Yeah. So, you know, Edwards-Alaire is a tough guy to project because you'd be.

don't know on a week to week basis. Well, I would say this, though, John, after you get past Hill and Kelsey, who's going to catch the football? Well, that's the point, too. Hardman has been a disappointment. Let's call it like it is. He's been a disappointment. I'm stunned that they didn't, they didn't, I know, I know Greg could talk about Cornell

Powell. Now he was a fifth round pick. I like him. Right, but you can't expect he's a fifth round pick. I like this. I like this. A lot. Right.

I mean, Hardman, you know, I don't know what they thought when they were, when they drafted Hardman because Hardman when he was drafted, I don't think many saw him as a second round pick. I think people saw him as an Andy Reid pick because he, the kid can run and he can be used a certain way in the context of what Andy Reid likes to do. Are you suggesting he's a disappointment at him because he's not a volume player? No, they just wanted him to step up and be more of a factor last season. And I can't instead of being surprised. He plays behind Tyreek, like, I don't know. Now, I will tell you.

Of what Tyreek does. Right. But I will tell you, I think part of why they drafted him in 19 was because of Tyro Kills off the field situation. Exactly. And I think maybe, as Greg said, maybe it was a little bit early for him. Now, I could tell you the Jets were going to draft Hardman. That was someone, the Jets really liked him in 19. That was a guy that they really were focusing on.

It just didn't work out. They were working on Trey with another team. So who knows, but here's the thing for all this talk. There are plenty of past targets open here. You can't throw the Tyree Kill and Jason Kelsey every down. Someone else is going to have to catch a football there. Yeah, Travis. God forbid one of those guys gets hurt.

Now you're really thin at receiver here. Pal, there's an opportunity. You know, an opportunity for somebody. I mean, the chiefs tell you what they think of Mikul Hardman, by the way they use them. When Sammy Watkins missed eight games last year, it was to Marcus Robertson and Byron Pringle playing over Miko Hart. Yep, not good. They're telling you exactly how they think.

I think he's a specific kind of player, and they probably knew that. I'm sure they went more out of him, but I think they know what he is. I wonder if they kind of just learned that, like, last year. I think, because I talked to Andy Reid about him in 2019. He seemed fairly high on his rookie season. I think, Adam, they were just underwhelmed by this year. Like, he just didn't really step up. But I actually think he's got a chance to manufacture some touches,

because I'm a little underwhelmed by. Marcus Robinson as well. Marcus Robinson, they see him as a special teamer and a fourth receiver only. So, you know, a sizable guy. Right. He's got some size of red zone. Cornell Powell will probably back him up. Anything on the defense stand out to anyone?

You had Mike Hughes. Ward is back here. I mean, Sneed, you know, those three corners are there. I mean, they're kind of stabilized from last year. Does anyone have any questions on Casey defense or else we'll move on? And we'll move on to the Raiders. And, well, Adam, is John Gruden this whole regime? Are they kind of running out of time here?

I mean, no. John Gruden has a 10-year deal. I know, I know. But what are we in here? He's been underwhelming. But I know what you're talking about. This is 18, 1920. This is year four for Gruden.

He's, he's underwhelmed. The team is underwhelmed. They haven't drafted very well. You and I talked about this ad nauseum on our show on Channel 87. It's just, you know, offensively, though, I'm kind of, I'm probably more bullish on them a little bit more than most people. I'm not talking about the running game. I just, I know that rugs underwhelmed. I know Edwards is hurt for, you know, it was also coming off surgery last year after he was, before he's drafted.

He's totally healthy. John Brown could still run. We know it's got a knee injury. I mean, any problems in his career. There's talent here at the receiver group. They just got to put it together. and we know that Waller's an incredible football player. So, and Carr, they think this is the best year of his.

This past year, they thought he was tremendous. Okay. Greg, what did you think of Ruggs and the tape? I'd like to say a few more, you know, high percentage passes thrown to him. I mean, his average depth of target was like 17 yards, which is like, you know, one of the largest numbers, you know, in the league. I thought maybe we'd use them a little bit more trying to give him the ball, running after the catch and all that.

It's tough to be better. I can tell you. His route running needs to be. Yeah. What were your impressions watching Henry Ruggs? Did you have anything, positive or negative? Well, I think we've got to be careful about rookie receivers. The guy can run.

I think that he needs more work as a receiver. And I think that this will be an interesting year. A lot of receivers make big jumps from year one to year two. He's obviously a starter. I would assume, you know, who's going to start opposite him? you think it's going to be Brown or Edwards? It should be Brian Edwards and Brown. And I see,

Brown has played X and Z that I was told in his career. Last year he played X because Diggs is the Z for the bill. So he can do either. My sense is it's going to be Brown and Ruggs on the other side. And I don't know how they're going to split that up. And Edwards is their X because he was drafted to take, Edwards was drafted to take Tyro Williams' job in which he's essentially supposed to be going to do this season.

Right. So that's kind of the way that I think. I mean, both their rookie receivers, John, Ruggs and Edwards, they, they fought through injuries last year. They fought through just becoming NFL players. I mean, I think this is a big year for both those guys. I think we know, I think the big question with Ruggs is for from a fantasy perspective is whether he's a volume player or more of a better Will Fuller. Do you know what I'm saying? That's a great point. But although Will Fuller without the touchdowns. Yeah, you know what? I think Greg's right. I think Ruggs is a 40 to 50 catch of year guy with explosive traits.

Edwards is your physical. He could run for his size X. Brown has got these knee problems in his 30s now. And they love Zay Jones, by the way. Zay Jones is a, he'll backup a bunch of plays. But he doesn't play a lot. You know how to run for his their slot.

That's kind of where it is right now in June. Yeah. I mean, you don't want to underrate Smokey Brown at all. Yeah. But to me, Ruggs is sort of the wild card here. I mean, he was a high pick. Yeah. Now, obviously, the goal offensively is explosive

of plays and touchdowns, and that's why Ruggs was a high pick, because theoretically, that's what he can do. But I think there's a question. They may have the question, too. You know, they're with him every day. We're not as to whether he's a volume guy or not. He may be, Adam could be right. He may be a 50-catch, 850-yard guy with eight touchdowns, and that might be what he is. I mean, that might not be bad, but that's not.

Question for Greg, because you've told us, car doesn't always let it loose, so to speak. Was it better in that area last year? Was it still a problem? I think it was a little better. I think it depends on how it's defined for him. You know, don't forget, Darren Waller gives you a lot of definition. You know, one of the things that really helps is when you have a tight end who can split outside the formation.

I've talked to coaches about this. It really helps to find things for the quarterback because I've had the defense has to react. And I think that that helps Carr feel more comfortable in turning it loose. I think in addition to rugs, I think Edwards is a little bit of a key as well, get some size, red zone, things like that. Only 11 catches, Greg. He actually did average 17 yards of catch. I mean, I think Edwards here, let me throw this out, okay?

This will be, I guess, my bold controversial comment for the day. That's the way it'll be seen. You know, that's the way people will see it. I ultimately think Edwards, and I think their body types are different, and their traits are a little bit different. But I think that Brian Edwards is really not that different, you know, just skill set-wise from, let's say, Justin Jefferson. Wow.

And again, Justin Jefferson obviously put up huge numbers last year. But, I mean, I go back to Edwards tape. He was a four-year starter in the SEC. His tape was really good. He's just not explosive in the way you think explosive. Of course, no one thought Jefferson was really explosive. of either in the way that he played last year. So again, having said that, I don't mean he's going to catch, you know,

80 balls for 1,400 yards. But I think if he's totally healthy, that he could be much more of a volume target than rugs. Probably a lot of contested catches because that would be the one thing, separation. I'm not sure about with Edwards. But he's a physical dude. He's a very physical dude. Yep.

And then Adam in the backfield, where are we with Josh, Jacob? What is Josh Jacobs? Well, I mean, it's not a good sign. You cannot believe this Ken to Drake contract. I don't think I've seen a backup runoff contract like this in 10 years. They simply cannot get out of it until after he plays two seasons, Kenyon Drake. Wow. It's a bad.

I'm not saying like he's going to be the starter. No, no, I'm not saying that. But to justify the contract, he's going to have to play Kenyon Drake. And he's going to have to play a lot. He got 11 million guaranteed signing, which is ridiculous. I, well, the problem is year one. They're paying them a lot in year one. And there's a little bit of guaranteed money in year two.

So I don't, yeah, five and a half million is fully guaranteed year two. They're not walking away from it until after 22. So Johnny's going to have to play a lot to justify it. That's the way it is. I mean, they're going to use them at receiver, I think at times. Maybe. But it doesn't bow well for, what it tells you is there's a lack of trust in Jacobs. They could say whatever they want, that they love Jacobs.

You're not given Kenyon Drake this kind of money if you have confidence in Jacobs. No way. I mean, Jacobs is 510, 220, Greg. Certainly sizable enough to, you know, be a true one. And he's looked good at times. He's just up and down. What are your overall impressions of Jacobs through two years? Well, I really like his talent.

You know, again, it's, that's hard to know. I mean, I can only speak to his talent. You know, obviously, they know him better than we do. it seems like he gets nicked a lot, but he's a very hard runner. So, you know, maybe that's the reason. But I don't think anybody could sit here and say that Josh Jacobs doesn't have a lot of talent as a running back. And he can't catch the football. So I, you know, I can't speak to that.

I mean, John, we can argue all about, first and foremost, I think Jacob's usage in the passing game has been apocalypticly bad for us. Just brutal. Right. I mean, but I go to the stat. I'm going to step on Graham's toes here. And Graham, I sincerely apologize for this. But, guys, they, Graham talked about how the chiefs have told you how they feel about me, Cole Hardman.

The Raiders, Josh Jacobs, who was a very good receiver in college. Greg, you said on tape, he catches the ball well. Graham, Graham found this out this offseason, and it is one of the most staggering numbers I have ever heard. Josh Jacobs in his career has one target on third down. Oh, and here's the other thing, John, how long do you have I, you and I have talked about Jalen Rashard and his misuse under Gruden? I mean, if we're down 20 with four minutes. Yeah, right, right.

He's the hurry up back. It's a joke. I mean, it's ridiculous. It's, that lack of you. That lack of creativity from Gruden surprises me because I know how well people work with Gruden and have talked about him. That's the part about. Yeah. And he's actually admitted that that they were, remember, John, I told you last year, they wanted to get

Jacobs involved in the past game, they wind up not doing it. That's on Gruden. Got to do a better job. John Gruden is maybe one of the most frustrating coaches I've seen just following the NFL for now for the last eight and nine years like I do. I mean, he does things like sign Nelson Aguilar to a league minimum deal and turns them into a great downfield threat. Darren Waller, I mean, very few coaches can convert a receiver into a tight-in and make

him into the playmaker that Darren Waller is. And then he does these boneheaded things like doesn't use Josh Jacobs. on passing downs gives Kenyon Drake all that money like Adam was talking about. I mean, at the end of the day, like this is not an indictment on Josh Jacobs town whatsoever, but I do not want him on any teams. This guy, he has been so touchdown in game script dependent. 17 of Jacob's 19 career touchdowns have come and wins. Now we've, no, we're going to add in Kenyon Drake, he's going to play a passing down.

So if they're behind it's over. Yeah, if they're behind, well, if they're behind, it was already over. And now you have named Canyon Drake. Right. And I just don't, I don't see a pathway where Jacobs can really beat his ADP. Let me ask a question. All right, Graham, with that information, would you, is he a third fantasy back, Jacobs or a second?

Third. He's a third. Yeah. And he's not be, he's not being drafted as that. He's still going into third and fourth round. Oh, my God. This is, this is interesting nugget. I didn't know the stuff about third.

I mean, you're giving me the choice between Robert Woods or Josh Jacobs, John. I'm taking Robert Woods 100 times out of 100. I don't think, based of this information, I don't think I'd take him the seventh round. Jacob. Well, I mean, he probably would. There's a price for everything, but I mean, right.

We'll have this discussion, but like Mike Davis, man, he's not going to come off the field. And he's on a better off, well, not maybe a better offense, but a better offense for fantasy. Yeah. I might rather have Mike Davis than Josh Shigris. There you go.

Greg, what was your opinion on Alex Leatherwood? Did you see his tape? Oh, of course I did. Okay. What do you think? I like Alex Leatherwood. I mean, I think he has some work to do and some technique issues.

But ultimately, I thought that he was a guy who could play left tackle. I know he played guard in his sophomore season, I believe. But I liked his tape. Look, I think he's got size. He's got mass. He's got more than functional movement. I think he needs some development. I wouldn't call him a high-level athlete for the left tackle position.

I wouldn't say he's elite, but I think he can line up and play a left tackle. You know, I think he needs some work, some coaching work, you know, and I'm not an offensive line guru by any means, but I think that he needs to better coordinate his feet and his hands and pass pro, but I believe that can be coached. The guy he kind of reminded me of, he kind of reminded me of Dwayne Brown in terms of size and measurables. Former Texan.

Yeah, that's pretty good, pretty good, by the way. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah, that's true. Because I said, you know, because a lot of people saw him as a guard, I ended my evaluation by saying he has much to work with that offensive. of tackle and I believe he will be drafted to play outside in the NFL. And he was drafted to play outside the NFL. He's going to play right tackle, is he?

Is he going to play right tackle? Yeah, I assume he was. Yeah, Colton Miller's right. Yeah, he's going to play right tackle. Yeah. Finally, the Chargers, I got to tell you, Adam, I'll start with you. We all know Herber was great last year. I'm, I like the receiving core overall, a lot of depth, but I'm pretty impressed with

the O line. No, they addressed it. Yeah. I mean, they, they, uh, Matt Filer, is a serviceable guard. He's a nice to. Linsley, the Cardals made him a big offer. And he chose a Chargers. So, and Roshan Slater, I think of, did I read that right? They're going to play him at left tackle. They're going to play him in a left tackle. That's John, we'll see if it works out, because I know there are some teams that absolutely did not think he could be a left tackle at this

level. They don't really have another one right now. Yeah, and Pipkins, obviously is not, yeah. He's going to play there unless he totally can't. Right, right. So, but you're, you're right. John, they've upgraded it. It cooks their tight end. That was an interesting signing. Greg's guy, Josh Palmer. I'm interested to see if he can get on the field this season. Yeah, by the way, Mike Williams is on his fifth year option.

He is, if they don't sign him to an extension, that kind of tells you where his career goes. It won't be back. I think Josh Palmer, Greg, could be starting here like next year. Could be. Yep. I really like him. I also think that a very intriguing pick, which they obviously thought so too, is Trey McKitty. Yeah, yeah.

Tell us about it. Yeah, I don't know much. Jamie Kitty hardly caught any balls at Georgia this year after transferring from Florida State. But he is big and athletic. And he was drafted because of what he can become, not what he did in college. But you're dealing with a big athletic kid. He's a good blocker because Georgia runs the football.

And he's, like I said, I think he has receiving traits to be really developed. I think he was, to me, he was one of the most fascinating picks in the draft because his college production would not lead you to believe at all that he would be a third round pick, but you got to watch him play. Yeah. I got a ton of size of receiver here, man. Ton of size. And you know, last year, guys like Jalen Geithen, Johnson, they had moments because they

did. You know, by the way, there's a lot of these new tests that are out now, you know, that measure quote, brain activity. There's something called that athletic, AIQ, athletic intelligence quotient. There's something called Sports Sense. I've been talking to a lot of people about the stuff because I'm trying to learn. and apparently Herbert scores off the charts on every single test. Yeah, no, real, real brilliant.

I took that brain activity one. I'm still waiting for the results. It did nothing registered, you know, like nothing. I did. Any of you ever take the Wonderlich test? No. I did a number of years ago. I was really disappointed.

I got too wrong. I got 48 at her. Oh. Damn. Greg, I want to talk about Herbert and his rookie season because, like, And I mean, obviously, I'm not in any way calling you out here, but I don't think you anticipated he would play like this in his season. And it's funny because I spoke, I was speaking to a GM that was at the event that I was at this weekend. And we were talking about Herbert.

And he said the same thing. He said his college tape would not lead you to believe he'd play like that. And then he was telling me because he gets to, you know, do all the stuff that I can't do, interview him, do all these tests that I spoke about. And he said, he's such an amazing. kid in every single way and he's so freaking smart but his tape you know left some some things that led you to believe he needed work and that that was absolutely true so it's not i'm not the only one who thought that you know his tape you just had to put the tape on adam knows this he's talked to people um and those issues did not really show up this past year joe so whether it's coaching whether it's just

normal development whether it's the kid being really smart and just understanding you know i can't speak to why. Yeah. The scene and throw at quarterbacks, coaches in the NFL have an issue with it. Well, and that's what he was in college. Right. That's why I brought it up. And I, I told you that story, John. I think Greg was

on the air or whatever. I know Greg knows his story. I was sitting with a college football coach at the senior ball last year. Yeah, you've told me this. Yeah. And he's like, I don't see how this guy's going to make it. He just waits. He waits. He waits. He waits. Jack Prescott does the same thing. It gets away

with it. It's, it's, it's, It's not for everybody, but as Greg said, he processes well enough. I'll be interested to see how year two does it. Special with Joe Lombardi, John. That's going to be fun. Yeah. I mean, you can make up for a lot of that with Armstrong, which he has. But he did not run nearly as much.

No. So I don't know Greg down the track. I don't think he's one of those guys per se like, oh, now there's tape on him, you know? Oh, right, right. I'm not exactly feeling that. I am. Well, obviously, he's going to be in a different offense because they That's what I'm concerned about.

Yeah, that's the thing. You know, Adam, you know, again, Lombardi, I watched his press conference from yesterday, trying to pick up, get some cues, didn't really get much. What's the word on the street on Joe Lombardi, though? Is this the right man for the job? Yeah, look, John, I've outlined this. He had a rough go without going into too much detail. There's a reason why they didn't bring him back in Detroit.

They didn't get what they thought they were going to get from Joe Lombardi. I think he got humbled by it. And this is probably going to be his last chance. They did, I know the charges did their homework on them. This is, they, they, and obviously Brandon Staley was his choice. They want to bring a lot of what New Orleans has done in the past. And maybe, maybe Lombardi got the job before he was ready with the Lions, but he's more than ready now.

And he's coached quarterbacks. He's called plays before with Detroit. I expect him. And you and I've talked about this. We expect that could be heavily involved as he normally would be in the past game. is that New Orleans backs gets involved in it. The question is, who else are they using the backfield? I'd be really interested to see, and I don't know this.

So, please, don't take it as if I know because I don't. I think just as a kind of a professional grinding runner that Larry Roundtree, the rookie from Missouri, is a very intriguing guy. I saw him in a way that's very similar to Zach Moss, and Zach Moss was the third-round pick. I knew Roundtree wasn't going to be a high pick because he's not an explosive dynamic runner, but he's a professional runner. And I'll be very interested to see if he gets carries.

I mean, it's a new staff, but they want, they need that guy opposite. They don't have a, they don't have a reliable number two, John. Yeah. Because I like Eckler a lot, as we all do. Yeah. But I don't think he's, you know, you're not giving him the ball 250 times. Right. It's not a volume back.

They run. John, I really like Justin Jackson's stylistically, but he gets hurt a lot. I'm kind of with Greg, though. You know, Josh Kelly. they drafted him as a grinder last year and he wasn't good. I don't think he's as good a runner as Roundtree. Right. And the problem with Justin Jackson is even though that's what he is stylistically,

he's less than 200 pounds. He can't handle that. He's more of a slasher to me. And I'm with Greg here, John. This is when you were doing the Chargers projections, you said, who should be second on this team and carries? And I told you, I think it's going to be Roundtree because I think the new staff drafted him essentially to take Kelly's role.

Well, the biggest question we have right now for Echler is, are they going to let him score touchdowns? Because he, I mean, he's going to be awesome in between the 20s. Are they going to let him? Yeah, because they did not let him, you know, run inside the time. He's never had more than three rushing, as you know, Graham. Oh, so they would take him out. You're saying they would take him out. Yeah, they took, I mean, they took him out for Kelly and Belash.

Freaking. Oh, yeah, that's why Belas. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's funny. Going around, Tree, I said there was.

not much mystery to what Roundtree is. Decisive downhill physical, determined competitive with laterally quick energetic feet and confined space. There was always a place in the NFL for those kinds of backs and their role is more often than not part of a two-back system much in the same way Zach Moss fits

with the bills. Yep. There it is. And with that, I think we could probably wrap here. We've covered McKinney. We've talked little Josh Palmer, good size, all that. Slater, left tackle. defensively. Not bad, not bad.

Well, and people are expecting they'll be better defensively because of Brandon Steele. And Derwin James, that guy named Dermann James is coming back. He's pretty bad. Yeah. And they play.

Staley's a big believer in quarters coverage, plays a lot of split safety. You know, I'll be interested to see Sante Samuel in this system. A lot of people love him. He looks like he's going to play outside. Oh, okay.

I mean, I'm just, that's what it looks like he's going to Interesting. Okay. Okay. Yeah, just like his dad. And that'll wrap it up here. There you go. All 32 teams covered here in the FantasyPoint.com virtual powwow. We will have other powwows off the record. That's when we just drop F bombs and really talk a lot of crap on people.

But we don't do that on camera. But that's, you know, an inter-office kind of a situation here. But let's wrap it up here. I know Greg's probably hungry. I think I'm pretty sure I heard his stomach growling. So we'll, I know it was probably mine as well, because I haven't eaten yet today. So for Adam Kaplan and Greg O'Sell and Graham Barfield and Joe Dolan, I'm John Hanson. Thanks for tuning in here.

Check out the previous three if you've missed them. And of course, check out the promo code early bird miss 21 for 10% off your fantasy points.com subscription. So we'll talk to next time at fantasy points.com. Thanks for tuning in to this edition of the Fantasy. Points Podcast. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review on your favorite platform. And come join the roster at

FantasyPoints.com.