Fantasy Football Daily - 2022 Dynasty Draft Strategies with TJ Calkins

Episode Date: June 9, 2022

Recorded June 2 on Livestream. Scott Barrett (@ScottBarrettDFB) and Nick Skrip (@P2WFantasy) welcome in TJ Calkins (@tjcalkins) to talk more dynasty strategies. This episode is brought to you by The FFPC, the best place for Dynasty and high-stakes leagues. Claim $25 off your first entry at https://myffpc.com/cms/public/play/dynasty-leagues?affid=fantasypoints. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today's podcast is sponsored by FFPC. You can check them out at MYFFPC.com, myfpc.com. Although they are a paid sponsor, they are legitimately my favorite platform to play on, particularly their high stakes redraft leagues, the Football Guys Players Championship, or the main event. they also offer high-stakes dynasty leagues. They've been doing this since like 2016. We have over 1,000 dynasty leagues, and they've yet to have a single league full.

That's perfect if you have a similar strategy to like me, where you punt year one, maybe punt year two, and then you try and win year three and beyond. So you could really test the limits with that sort of approach. and there's no risk of the league folding if you built a juggernaut and all the team owners complain and wanted to quit the league. So that is great. Again, FFPC, that's myfPC.com.

And you can check out the link below in the podcast subscription to claim $25 off your first entry. It's time for the Fantasy Points Podcast brought to you by Fantasy Points. com. Top level fantasy football and NFL betting analysis from every perspective and angle, from numbers to the film room, with a single goal to help you score more fantasy points. What is up, everybody, and welcome to the Fantasy Points live stream. We have a Dynasty startup show today, and we've been coordinating this one for a little bit, so I'm happy we got this together here. But before we jump into any Dynasty talk here, I want to make sure I introduce both

of these guys. First and foremost, I'm Nick Scrip. I have Scott up top here with me. Scott, I know this past month you've been busy as hell, this strength of schedule series for every position you dropped. I know you did the dynasty rookie rankings early May, a bunch of live shows. My big question is, did you get to relax at all this Memorial Day weekend? Maybe a little bit. I've actually been working on an underdog best ball strategy guys. mostly on the tournaments. And I think I've found some unique, interesting edges that the public isn't totally aware of just yet.

So be on the lookout for that. And tomorrow night, Graham and I have a very special live stream. We're calling it worst take. It's basically a first take style player debate. We're each argue for and against a player as obnoxiously as possible. I'm going to be Scotty Smith. He's going to be Skip Barflat.

So be on the lookout for that. It's going to be really fun, really funny. And this is something in the Discord that Scott seems pretty amped up about. So I think that's going to be a great show. Something different, always likes something like that. And below us here, TJ, obviously, big fantasy football guy. I know you play with Scott in a league. And we'll talk about that a little bit later on.

And I know you also hopped in the fantasy points draft night show with us, before and you've also been dropping some articles yourself ats.i o ufc and mbba prop betting so tj uh what's what's up man how's it going yeah i'm doing well i'm actually pretty excited for this you know the past year or two have kind of transitioned everything's gambling based so it's kind of fun to go back and do a fantasy show and enjoy it absolutely and uh what we got going on today is a dynasty startup show i feel like it's it's kind of that time of year uh that in between between of just had rookie drafts, just had the NFL draft, still waiting on redraft season. So we have a bunch of people that are actually starting up some startups for Dynasty

Leagues. And we'll talk about some strategies and some topics related to that today. How this works. So a Dynasty League, you think about a redraft league, if you're not familiar. It's a redraft league basically that carries over year to year after the year. Each team gets rookie draft picks based off of how every. Everybody's performances go. Benches are typically a bit deeper, bigger draft as well.

So having a type of strategy for these startup drafts is pretty important. So, Scott, anything to add for what a startup is exactly. And more importantly, why should somebody do a dynasty league if they only have played in redraft leagues throughout their fantasy football careers? Yeah, early on, when I was in early in the industry, people try to sell me on a dynasty League and it just didn't sound super fun to me where you have the same roster every year and you only draft rookies. I don't know, but TJ was the guy who really got me into Dynasty and really addicted to it. It's quickly become one of my favorite formats. I think it's easier to win.

I think it's easier to game, easier to dominate. We'll discuss the optimal strategies. But it's just so much fun. And it's one of those things where you kind of have to do it yourself to really appreciate it. The best part of any fantasy league is drafting and in a dynasty startup draft, nothing compares to that because it's so massively important because you do keep these guys for ideally forever. The first ever league I was a part of,

T.J. was the commissioner. And T.J. at this point, have been a dynasty pro dominating. And he has like maybe 40 leagues and he's in first place in all 40. It was like pretty crazy. And so I went, I went win now and win later. So I drafted some old guys late, but I drafted a bunch of young guys early.

And I like really thought I was, I was poised to smash. And I made the playoffs every single year, only one at once. TJ, I think won last year and was going to win for the next nine years going with this differing strategy. And I really saw the way his team was heading in that direction. So I'd draw. joined a number of leagues with TJ as my co-partner. And we've been really extremely dominant in every single one of those leagues where it's generally it goes like this.

Year one, we lose and finish. Ideally, we finish last, but like we end up drafting too good. So we like finished sixth. We're like, you know, like we wanted this year the 101 to draft Breeze Hall, but we finished a little too good for that. But next year, you know, year two, we dominate. Either we win it all or we come damn close and then year three and beyond we we dominate for a long time. T.J., anything to add on anything I just said? Oh, you're covering. These questions are going to come back up again. We're going to be able to go under further depth. But the initial question from Nick there was, you know, why dynasty? I guess it's like why is a seven-season show better than a two-hour movie? You know, you're getting

to the much deeper depths of everything you're doing, whether it be drafting, trading, using the waiver where just every aspect of fantasy football, every strength, weakness, it's compounded over time. So it's a lot more fun that way to me. And I think, you know, some complaints with redraft, obviously redrafts probably still a lot bigger than the amount of people that play in Dynasty. But, you know, you hear some complaints about, you know, inactivities and leagues and people not really into it. Dynasty kind of forces you to be all in with this. I mean, with the waiver

wire and structuring your team year to year. And the other beauty about dynasty leagues is that if the three of us are in a league, the way we draft, the way we trade, the way we structure a team is probably all different. And I think that's what makes the leagues great. And when looking at dynasty leagues, there's a- Real quick. I will just say, like, at its best, dynasty is far and away the most fun fantasy format. But at its worst, it's also probably the worst. Like if you're in a league that folds in three years, like, that's horrible. T.J. and I have built juggernauts, and then the commissioner folds in the league or tries to,

and then we'll try and bring more people in. Or if you're in a league where with people who don't trade a lot, that stinks. Like the work around T.J. and I have found for that is converted to a best ball league. That kind of helps a little bit. But, yeah, so really you want. owners who are very active, very attentive, and ideally are great trash talkers. Like that's our favorite thing is TJ and I are excellent trash talkers who trash talk vigorously. Like the best league I'm in is my league.

I call it the DFB invitational that has Matthew Berry in it, Reach Rebar, Evan Silva, Pat Thorman, a bunch of DFS pros, a bunch of Dynasty pros, a bunch of redraft pros. and everyone cares so much and everyone trash talks. So that's like by far my favorite lead now at this point. I think it's having a good league where you know how the activity is going to be. You know the people in the league goes a long way because, you know, you shouldn't shy away from picking up an orphan team or playing in a league with people you don't know, but having that group of people that you are kind of familiar with.

Like I have a home dynasty league. we had our draft like two weeks ago, the rookie draft, and it was like a big party. And that's kind of helps the league prolong on. And, you know, I've also played in some leagues where I really didn't know anybody. And, you know, again, nothing against that. But I think it's awesome when you can go in knowing the types of players, people are and that they're all in for it. Yeah. And as I alluded to earlier, I do think if you mail the startup with an optimal strategy,

it could be the easiest format to play. and what helps is knowing your owner's tendencies, the fellow owners in the league. And so we had Evan Silva in the league, and we know he's like typically not the most patient dynasty owner. And then we had a number of DFS pros like L. Hefe, Jeff Collins is maybe the most profitable DFS player over the past three seasons.

And guys like that, Davis Maddoch, the siege. And, you know, we were thinking like, like these guys probably aren't going to have a lower time preference. These guys are probably going to treat it like DFS and try and win now and want a top heavy build, stars and scrubs. And so we just loaded up on their rookie picks and we won that league last year and we're poised to dominate for a long time. All those guys, by the way, are great players.

But some of them I did think had too high of a time preference in the startup. But anyway. The funnest thing about that league is that it doesn't need to be. but I believe it's going to be everyone's lowest dollar buy-in, but everyone cares so much so. So it goes to the right people together. The competitive nature takes over it. Everyone wants to win that. So, TJ, so as far as formats go, I mean, there's 10 team leagues, 12 team leagues, one quarterback, super flex.

If you're not familiar, you can start two quarterbacks, just the listener. I mean, the list is long of types of dynasty. these people can play in. Do you have a preferred format personally? Yeah. So as far as a positional starters go, Superflex or two quarterback guys, absolutely head and shoulders. I mean, it just essentially stops you from taking one position and completely devaluing it as happens in one QB. I mean, you're talking about the difference where Patrick Mahomes is in the conversation of being the 101 and Josh Allen are in the conversation to be in the overall 101 in Superflex to now they're going.

80, 90 picks deep into a startup. Maybe I'm exaggerating of it there, but it really completely makes another position worthwhile and makes it a lot more fun. I think tight-end premium is vital because if you don't have tight-end premium, it's not those studs get helped that much by tight-in premium and they do, but it brings another group of six to 12 to 18 players at the position into relevance, where otherwise you wouldn't have that. I like deeper rosters.

I like deeper starting lineups. And when I say deeper, I mean, my preference is 35 to 40-man rosters. So, and 10 to 12 starters. I actually have one league where we have 13 starters. So, you know, there's just more is better, I guess, is the way I see everything in Dynasty. And auctions, I mean, even rookie auctions, those are fun. Anyone that's not familiar with a kitchen sink league, now those are fun. That brings in contracts.

It brings in a rookie auction, a restructing. a restricted free agent auction, a Devi auction, an unrestricted free agent auction. And it is truly in depth. Ryan McDowell runs those. If you don't follow him, check them out. You can learn about kitchen sink leagues. But there's going to be someone for everyone. So no matter what your preference is, take a look around, you'll find something you like.

Yeah, I'll just say the way I structure all of my leagues and people have seemed to copy this and prefer this format is super flex, tight and premium, very deep rosters. Ideally, you can start more than 10 players every week. 10 is like a fine number, but maybe 12 would be even better. And as I alluded to earlier,

like different formats are easier to game. I think best ball is actually really easy to game. We'll talk about that. But TJ was mentioning one QB, non-Titem premium, and that, the strategy for, I think, is really easy. You know, like that was what the fantasy points dynasty league was.

And so I just full-on punted QB and I full-on punted tight end and I took zeros hoping to finish dead last in year one and then figure out the rest later. Instead, I accidentally, you know, scooped up Justin Herbert off waivers, which he never should have been in waivers. But anyway, I easily won the league in year two. just my wide receivers are Stefan Diggs, Jerry Judy, Keenan Allen, Brandon Ayuk,

Deontay Johnson, Cid Lam, D.K. Medcalf, Elijah Moore, Ron Dale Moore, running backs for Najee Harris, Saquan Barkley, quarterback is Justin Herbert, traded like a round two pick for no offense. I got that cover, but I just like dominated the league. And it's a little bit trickier to do that in Superfax, although that is typically my strategy is where I'll either punt,

quarterback, just even more risky, or full-on punt running back, where I'm like legitimately drafting zero running back. So I'm just taking zeros, hoping to get the next year 101. So like this year I got briefs haul and it's like, okay, good. And I have some more rookie picks. So I'll trade those for a solid RV2 or really good RV2. And now my team's immediately dominant. So again, yeah, one QB non-tight and premium, just you're going to want to full-on punt QB and tight end. But the way we structure it, there's more parity and it's more competitive, more fun. You can definitely add just more and more to the startup and how the league is going to be and it makes the startup draft even more complex in the way that you trade more complex.

I mean, a home dynasty league that we have a full, full offense, full defense, so it's IDP in the way that we did a rookie draft for this past draft. It was interesting to see who jumped on Wood and where guys fell. The 101 of the NFL draft went in the late third round. It was interesting to see that. And, you know, people who are brand new, so people who are brand new, they're going to do their first startup. If you were to tell them, you know, here's a good way to prep because you, I mean, the way we tell somebody to prep can be a long, lengthy response. It can be generic. But if somebody were just to come up to you and ask and say, hey, you know, it's my first one. I'm unsure of what to do.

to be ready for this. TJ, what comes to mind? What's something you can tell somebody? Because that's probably something for a lot of people right now saying, hey, I played redraft for 10 years, but going into this long-term thing, what do I do to get ready? Well, do some research. Understand what ballpark expectations are going to be.

Make sure you have at least some sort of reasonably current average draft position. Make sure you understand the scoring system that your league is going to use. so you understand where you can take advantage or avoid certain players because of those scorings or settings. But I just truly have understanding the value of players or ballpark value of players in terms of market, that's going to be the biggest thing going in. You know, like Scott said, if you're in 1 QB, no tight end premium and you take a quarterback in the first round, you know, it's happened.

People have done that. they joined the Dynasty League because their redraft league overvalues quarterback scoring. And, I mean, not that they're doing the right thing anyway, but, you know, then you see three, four quarterbacks going to first round where I'm sure we've all seen that happen. Well, now they're going to carry that over to Dynasty League, and that mistake is going to be compound over five years and ten years. So, yeah, just make sure you're well aware of the settings and where players are going to be valued. I remember a few years ago, there was a debate over whether or not Andrew Luck was worth a first round pick in a one QB dynasty league because Andrew Luck could play until he's 40, you know?

Well, that didn't work out too good. We got a question. And so like as we get questions in, let's just address those and then we'll move back to the structured format. But I believe it's Garrett. I cropped off the name, so I missed it, but asked, would I be stupid to not get Traylon Birx with my top, with my two top five picks this year? I don't like him at all, but the fantasy hype makes me think I could trade him for 2023 first later on. And so I would argue against that. I think I have Traylon Burks like maybe pick number seven or eight in a one QB Dynasty League.

But I don't think that thesis is correct, because the way I view, Traylon Burks was that I don't think he is going to be ready year one. Obviously, there's this amazing opportunity in Tennessee, and maybe they just scheme him touches. But I saw a very raw prospect who is not very accomplished playing the actual role of wide receiver. Just a lot of screens in college, a lot of go routes, and that's just about it. I comp him to Leviska-Chanal.

And, you know, that's not necessarily a criticism. Sure, it didn't work out with Leviska-Schanal. but he was a highly regarded prospect. But I think he's raw in the same way as Leviska-Shinault was raw. So if I have a top-five pick, I'm not taking him. And I don't think he's necessarily someone who increases in trade value. Though, I mean, James and Williams probably is cheaper this time next year just because of the ACL. But I wouldn't go that route.

I don't know if you wanted to comment on that. Yeah, the one thing I'll say, too, is I don't know if you want to draft based off of perceived hype or, you know, what you think you can get for a player because you might end up taking a guy that you would have ranked where Scott has met seven or eight for some people, but then, you know, you go into thinking, hey, I'm going to get this for him and then nobody's interested or nobody's going to pay you what you want for the guy. So now, now you wasted a pick on the guy and also you're not getting what you want for him. So if you have him that high, then maybe you make that pick. But I would, I would not bank on I can get him for something.

when you don't really know if you can for sure. My follow-up would be a question to the question, and that is what I'm trying to understand, why couldn't you get a 23-first for the pick, as opposed to the player later on? So if the ultimate goal here is at 23-first, just trade it for the 23-first now. We don't need the middleman here.

You know, you can cut that out. Maybe you can actually get some juice added on them to squeeze. I think we got another one here. I'll answer this next one. We'll move on to the next topic. but Joe asks a question for whenever. Is the startup the best time to accumulate picks? Feels like a ton of people get hype and reach.

So basically, go ahead. The original question is, you know, what's the best way to prepare? I think if you asked instead, like, what's the one thing you need to know in your first ever dynasty startup? And I just know T.J's answer, like the best way to prepare, you know, chat with your owners, the fellow owners in the league, become friendly with them, try and figure out what they want, what they're looking to do, really become friendly with them.

And the second piece of advice would be trade down as early and as often as possible. We'll spend some more time of that in the second. And the third piece of advice would be find the biggest dummy in the room and loot the coffers until there's nothing left. Because if you don't, if you don't get there, someone else will. T.J., you're shaking your head.

Yeah, man. I mean, I don't fully agree there. I thought that was your quote verbatim, but okay. No, you can share a sheet many times, but you can skin them only once. You know, that's a rounder's line that definitely had origin before that. But, I mean, there's truth to it. A bad trader can really totally shake the competitive nature.

Eve, you know. And I would, to agree with you to at least to an extent, if they're going to make the terrible deal for the assets in question, you might as well be the first one in line. But also, you know, you don't have to absolutely destroy them. You want to keep trade, all trade lanes open. And, you know, this is the greatest trader of all time. I've never seen anything like it where we, we pull off trades where the other party is like so happy and grateful and thankful.

And, you know, six months down the road, it's like, wait, how did, how did TJ convince me to give up three first round picks for Cadarius Tony or something like that? And it's just, it's really remarkable. Guy can sell ice to an Eskimo or whatever that phrase is, but an amazing trader. So we'll have to ask him for some more trade-specific advice later on. All right. Here's the biggest one. And I was going to just piggyback on this.

Because there are some of you out there that need to hear this. And the ones you that need to hear this don't want to hear this. But if you're playing poker, you're sitting there with your friends. You're not going to call someone an asshole and tell them how terrible they are because they check raised you. So if they sent an offer, you didn't like, don't do the same thing. Don't be that guy. It's a trade offer. If it's that bad, decline it, move on.

Move on to the next one. Don't get offended. Don't take it personal. Don't think they're calling you stupid. You don't need to bring a motion into this. See, now you've got a motion out of me. Yeah, especially when you're going to be trading with these guys for hopefully a decade. I mean, if that's the intent of this startup, right?

I mean, you're going to have different trade relationships and kind of going back to your point, if you kind of pull that, you know, finesse trade off one time and then everybody in the chat says, man, this guy got you then might affect your trades later on too. But more trade strategies as we go on. but back to actually drafting. One of the big things is age, right? I think that's like the biggest debate for how people rank people in Dynasty. I'm looking at a startup draft I did with a bunch of other Twitter guys who made content.

And, you know, Cooper Cup is a first round pick and redraft. Cooper Cup and this one, this is a couple months ago, when in the fourth round. I mean, so that kind of gives you a perspective of how this specifically looked at age. And it's going to vary the league. but for you guys, when it comes to, you know, getting youth and focusing on having a younger team or being competitive and not, you know, caring as much about age, how do you look at that? Because I think that's what affects how a draft really goes. Scott, what's your thoughts, man?

Yeah. So I was saying, look, when I joined that first league up against TJ, I did, I tried to win now and later. And it didn't really work out. And, you know, I mean, I won once and like whatever. right so I'm still out of profit how many ever years into this league I'm in but at the same time it's like every year my team got progressively worse and worse and worse I traded future rookie picks and TJ took the opposite approach and this is the approach I've since adopted in all my leagues where he's not necessarily trying to win year one he's trying to win year two or three

and then five years in a row where he's really built a juggernaut. And so he does not draft older players. He goes as young as possible because you don't want those declining assets that they're harder to trade year after year and like the trade value is lower and lower. And it's like just like psychologically, it's like sort of depressing, whereas like his teams get better year after year after year. And so he is a very frequent trader. He trades down throughout the draft as much as possible.

he acquires as many rookie round one picks and two and three and four but mostly round one picks as much as possible and then he he has a juggernaut by year three year four tj is that about right yeah and you know trading down is certainly preferable to trading up and like you said volume is the big key you know if you trade down once don't be afraid to do it again keep doing it keep compounding keep on accumulating assets i mean no not one of us is perfect some of us might may be better than others at player evaluation, drafting players. But at the end of the day, number of assets matters. You know, even if your hit rate is fantastic, you need to have more assets than the other guy to have the most favorable number of assets at hit.

So number of assets is absolutely crucial. And like you said, that really begins to pay off your two, your three. But at the end of the day, if you want to a draft, say there are six, seven guys wanting to do the same thing. want to punt. They all want to trade down. Zagging when they zig is always going to be the most important, the most important thing. So if you're, you're seeing this play out, and now all of a sudden you're in a situation where you can walk into a one to two year winner without having to give up way too much of the capital for the future. Maybe you only have to trade one first round pick. You know, you keep your first round pick two years out. You just move up in the startup,

using startup capital and that one future first round pick and the later picks. Now, when you have essentially the six, seven other owners bidding for the services, even if it's not your preferred strategy going in, you have to be flexible. You have to be ready to take that value. And I've walked in the situations like that. Some have worked out. Some haven't. It is much harder to walk into a win now situation and make it sustainable at all.

In economics, there's the notion. of time preference, which is just that universally, everyone seems to agree that a dollar today is more valuable than a dollar tomorrow. And then interest rate is just the cost of a dollar a day today instead of at a later date. And so ideally, the optimal strategy is to have that lower time preference, be okay punting year one because typically there's more teams trying to win now or win now end later. And there's also in Dynasty, you're rewarded for having a bad team, especially in year one. That's why I like to punt certain positions and ensure myself of landing the 101

the following season, which can be a massive payoff, as it certainly was last year with Jamar Chase and Kyle Pitts and Najee Harris. That top three pick was so valuable and so worthwhile. But what TJ is talking about is like in certain leagues, you might find there's a negative intradist rate where every team is full on punting. I found that in the charity leagues that I run or, you know, fantasy point subscriber leagues where it's not industry people. Industry people I found typically want to win now. And so when that happens, then I'll zag because that's where all the value is.

There's a negative interest rate. The value is in winning now. So in Curtis's Black Crown League, I went win now and I sold off all my future rookie picks. And I've finished in, I made it to the championship round in each of the two years of its existence. We're like, okay, sure, my team is going to get worse every year. But that's where the value is. And like, I do that again with the chance of, you know, I win it two years instead of finishing second place. My buy-in is paid for for 16 years, right?

So again, it really depends on where the value is. And that might not typically be something you'll find out until like round three. But in most dynasty leagues, you know, everyone's. attracting young players the first three rounds anyway. With the, you know, we mentioned like three times now, pick trading and trading down. And I've also been in some startups too where it seems, seems like a lot of guys are trying to do that just because they can capitalize

on some more value with doing so. And, you know, for the brand new dynasty player, though, they might be hearing this and saying, like, well, what does training down mean? Like, what do you mean? I'm losing my first to get what? Because I've been in drafts myself a couple years ago where I wanted to trade down, but do I give up a first and a fifth for a second and a third? How do you kind of approach that if you've never done something like that before?

Because, again, I mean, it might be brand new to the entire room for trading picks in a draft. So I brought this up on my. Let me grab this real fast, Scott. Because we need to differentiate future rookie picks between startup. picks because there's a massive difference. Now, if you're talking about a first round startup pick, that's worth in the neighborhood of three to three and a half future rookie first round picks. Okay. If you're talking about one randomly placed future rookie pick a year out, you're probably talking about a mid-seventh-round startup pick. So I just wanted to have that bit of context

out there before we kept going on that. Sorry, go ahead. How about just the actual startup picks? because I've seen some where they rarely touch the rookie picks. Maybe they say you got to pay for those picks and half the room doesn't, something along those lines. So how about the startup picks? That's a great point, though. That's a great point. So when I'm in a draft with T.J., a startup draft, we will trade more than anyone.

We will trade down more than anyone. And a mistake I used to make was I would trade far down. And T.J corrected that. And he was like, I don't know, no, no. You want to stay close to where you were because you could trade down again and trade down again. That's really where all the value is. And then it multiplies. So a great example is I was in a recent league with Curtis, who we all know.

Like I did the recent show with Sean Siegel, T.J. and Curtis, I would say those are the three best dynasty players. So we all have a sort of similar strategy. And Curtis, the lucky bastard he is. He landed the 101. And I was just like, all right, the league's over. like not really but like his odds of winning are exponentially better than anyone else just because the 101 is such a cheat code and it's not necessarily that Josh Allen is so much more valuable than Mahomes or Justin Herbert it's that you could trade down and then trade down again and that's exactly

what he did so he moved the 101 for the 103 he picked up basically a free round four startup he moved up from round 18 to round 10 and he moved up from round 18 to round 10 and he got two firsts, like just insane. And so then he's at the 103, and he drafts Justin Herbert. And it's like, are you telling me the difference between Justin Herbert and Josh Allen is two future first plus the 410, which is what, DJ Moore and, you know, an 18 to 10 bump, which is like absolutely massive. And so like after that trade, I'm like, all right, all right, Curtis won this league. It's like over, basically, because it's so hard to compete against that. I think I did a good job, but I mean, just unreal maneuvering from him.

But like this is what you see in these startups is like people way overpay on moving up. And it's like there's there's intellectual hubris overconfidence where, oh, I need to get my guy. I'm sure this guy is so much better than this guy going six picks behind him. And they're not looking into the injury risk that that entails. But like T.J. and I will not, we'll do that. we'll pick up a future round run round one rookie pick and like that pick is never going to lose value at least in the next year they're not they can't get hurt because you know that player hasn't been drafted yet and it's like a bonus round seven startup pick like tj was saying it's like a

perfectly average one and uh and and people just overestimate like uh the value of moving moving of moving up, like moving up early versus moving up later. So, you know, we'll move back from 110 to 204, but we'll get a bump from 8 to 6, which I think like 6 is oftentimes a sweet spot. And so I don't know, TJ, anything to add on that? Well, it is a sweet spot, but also, I mean, the sweetest spot for me, I feel like rounds, say, 8 to 12 in startups are almost. Yeah, they're almost always just given away.

And I feel like especially if you're going the opposite direction, you can absolutely stack starters in that range. You can completely, if you start with the zagging, like we said earlier, in the negative interest situation, and you start with a build where you have these studs in place and now you need the starters, you just need to fill out your starting lineup. My God, I mean, you can definitely find high-end short-term starters there.

and it's very easy to do. And often second year players that maybe weren't perfect as rookies, but that to me, that 8 to 12 range, round 8 to 12 is where I tend to end up with all the picks. And if it's in a trade-down, trade-down, trade-down spot like Scott and I've done plenty of times and talked about, that's where we end up starting to just stack players and start using our draft picks because that future capital is no longer available, or at least not. not at the level that we were trying to buy previously. So I guess that that's probably the biggest reason why I end up drafting so many players

in that range. But that is where this is where it gets tricky about. This is where it gets tricky is you have to win these trades. You have to be getting your values worth. And it's hard to describe how to do that because like someone listening to one of my older podcast. It's like, hey, I trade down every single round. What do you think?

And their team is really bad. And they only have like three extra first. And I'm like, well, you just didn't get enough value. And like it's hard for me to express that. Good friends of the show, oh, no, different Joe. So Joe is saying in one league, is that Crunchy Boys, Joe? Well, Joe is saying in one league, I think you guys ended up trading down to the point of having seven or eight, 2021 round first. Yeah.

So we're in. More than one league. But yeah. This is either year two or year three. And listen to this team. You start 11, super flex, tight and premium. Just listen to this, Nick. I got a roster bait.

You got to let me roster bait here. Quarterbacks. You have to plug it. Quarterbacks. Mack Jones, Trey Lance, Trevor Lawrence, Drew Locke, Tua, Zach Wilson. Is that six starters? That's six starters.

All right, I digress. Running backs. Nick Chubb, Michael Carter, Melvin Gordon, Najee Harris, Karim Hunt, David Montgomery, Rashad Penny, Tony Pollard, Javante, Williams. Wide receivers. Jamar Chase, T. Higgins, Deontay Johnson, D.K. Metcalfe, John Mechie, Ron Dale Moore, George Pickens, Amari Rogers, Jalen Waddle, Christian Watson, tight ends, Noah Fant, Dallas Goddard, Kyle Pitts. And it sounds like there's a decent amount of roster spots there. So it's not like you're in a 10-team, 20-player player.

No, this is a 12-team league that we are going to dominate for the next eight years. It's just like, This is what happens when we continually traded down and we continually acquired 2021 picks. I think we had like seven 2021 picks. And we both intentionally went that route. We were a little sour on 2022. We were really high at 2021. And like that draft also fell perfectly to us where we, I mean, yeah, we got all the good guys. We got Najee Harris.

We got Cal Pitts. We got Elijah Moore. We got actually, this is the one league. I don't know Elijah Moore, but we got a bunch of. of studs. And closer to actual rookie draft, like you ain't, you ain't getting that all that. I mean, you have to do it in advance like that. The team is insanely stacked and everyone's under the age of 25. And I think we might have two round one picks next year. Like, it's just, it's unfair at every single league we have at least two in 23.

Well done, TJ. I know that's all you. So side question with that team. So with a team like that you just establish this team for the next seven 10 years i don't know whatever your timeline is how how much activity do you do you guys typically have beyond that when you know hey i'm set now and i'm set with these future picks are you guys still pretty active in in leagues like this yeah t j's really active though but one thing we have to worry about is like everyone's just like well this is unfair and so you know i could see people rage quitting so instead of just winning every single year and dominating and and getting you know 12x the buy-in we're going to have to play commissioner and you know find people to take orphans it's the only way yeah but i will say we've

entered in a partnership fantasy points with my ffPC which does a bunch of dynasty leagues i really like their tri-flex format which is super flex tight and premium and they've never had a league full what they do is you put in your buy-in, and then if you ever end a deposit, so then if you ever bail, they give someone willing to take an orphan free money. So they've been doing this for five, six, seven years, and they've never had a league fold. So again, we have a partnership with them. Well, more details to come, but I highly recommend FFPC triflex, if that's something you're worried about, is building a juggernaut and having it fold. With, with pictureating, last question with picture reading.

We talked a lot about trading down. There's still going to be people that want to trade up and go and get one of their guys. My question to you guys is I'm looking at a draft board now. I'm a big Jerry Judy guy. I am. I see him in the seventh round. He's slipping towards the eighth. I'm not picking for a while.

Do you think in a startup draft for that specific pick that I want to go and grab Judy at the 710? Is it harder to move up and trade for that specific pick? or do you think it would be harder to go and trade for Jerry Judy following the draft? Like the actual player. Do you guys ever think about that? My experience is it's easier to buy picks and players. You know, because the person who ends up drafting that player at the slot you were looking to or in the neighborhood, values them at that same level.

So now that they have them in hand, they're going to put that extra tax on you when you're coming to buy. So I think it's always, always better to buy the pick. not the player. I mean, there are exceptions every rule, but I'm always going to aim for the pick. And I'll just reiterate. It's so important to talk to these owners because they value these picks differently. They have different preferences. And so I'll be in a league where the cost to move up with four owners from round eight to round seven is insanely high. And you see the trades made and you're like, that's crazy, but you could just find the right one or two owners who was like, oh, yeah, sure, I'll take a rookie round four.

And you're like, what? How does that make any sense given the trades you've seen just made? But that's how it is. It's just, that's why TJ is like, for the average person, like startup draft, they're just like, oh, whatever, this is fine. I'll have a notification on my computer. But TJ is like really working this like a full-time job where every single pick, he's talking to someone.

And he's like, oh, great pick. What do you, what do you, how do you like in your team? What do you think? Blah, blah, blah. And so, like, that is just so important. So you have to be really engaged, really active, and reading the temperature of the room. Sleep and work suffer when I'm doing startups. It's for certain.

It really does, man. It's, it's wild to watch this man work. But he is the best dynasty player I've ever seen. That's why he's my partner. I was about to say, hey, it sounds like, yeah, you picked the right guy when it comes of this. So, again, I'm looking at a draft board now and seeing how some of the, some of the picks went through and you see like back to back picks, like, you know, for this one, Austin Eccler and A.J. Brown went back to back. And I think another one,

DeAndre Swift and C.D. Lamb went pretty close. So when, Scott, when you're drafting, is the longevity of a position, something that, that you take into account. Because I know some people will say, you know, you mentioned going zero running back, which again, you might fade off the position for a while. Is that something you think about when draft in saying, hey, you know, CD Lam, Swift, I might get five years out of Swift. I might get 10 out of C.D. Lambs. Is that a factor people should think about?

Yeah, I mean, when tiers dry up at positions, you know, ideally you're at the back end of the tier. You're not immediately starting right, starting it off. When that happens, so TJ and I try methodically, very calculatingly to position ourselves to be right at the tail end of a tier. And in instances where the well dries up right in front of us, we'll be assholes where we'll just sit up, sit on the clock the entire time and ping everyone like, hey, what are you trying to do?

You're trying to trade out. You're trying to trade out. You're trying to. Because don't make us take this guy when the guy we wanted and values so much more just went the pick in front of us. But I have a follow-up question for T.J. what happens when you're in a league where you can't make any trades? Because I'm in a league right now with Joe Payneau, friend of the show.

And it's an FFPC league. I'm just like kind of being lazy with it and like didn't like any of the conversations with these owners. So I haven't made a single tradeback and I like hate it. And we have we have Cal Pitts, Titan Premium, Naji Harris and D.K. Metcalf. And I wasn't like super amped to take DK. Maccalf. I wanted to trade down. I just couldn't find anything.

So like imagine you're in a league with zero tradebacks. Remember, we just talked about how that's where all the optimality is, the recommended approach. But let's say you can't. What do you do? All I have to fall back on is is really knowing where the value is. And so, again, like running backs are should be less valuable in dynasty startups. I, when do I want to draft a running back? Ideally in the rookie draft, you know, so I'm getting them at their youngest. Running backs are typically immediate year one producers if they're high-end running backs.

Like, Brise Hall could be a bell cow right off the bat. So I'm going to punt RB2. And then quarterback is the most valuable in a super flex and the last, longest, but the well just kept dying right in front of me. So I think what I'm going to do is if I wanted to go win now, which I again, I typically, or like win now and later, which I typically don't. I like to commit to one strategy or the other is drafting like Mac Jones and Zach Wilson for cheap or for, you know, Matt Ryan, Davis, Mills, Daniel Jones for really cheap and then just load up on wide receivers until then.

TJ, what would your recommendation be for me here? I don't have a specific direction to point you in, but I'm telling you you have to pick a direction and then do it with conviction. So you either have to sell the guys you already have and just completely change what you started doing or you have to go ahead and say, okay, yeah, we're all in for this season.

We're going to win right now. I mean, this is still a young team out. Just don't have ass it. Just don't have ass anything you don't. I know. So that's always my recommendation is don't have acid. And I'm aware. But you just said, I was a little bit lazy with it to this point.

And that's what I said. I mean, all my guys are 24 or younger. So I can still go win later. Well, a 24-year-old running back isn't necessarily 24 or younger. You know, you have five years.

Yeah, but I mean, like, I never really look at running backs much after the rookie contract, maybe a year or two. No, I think it's safe to. Yeah, it's safe to with super high-end guys that are already given a workload and performing in a situation like Najee. I think you can definitely look past a first contract with him. But if we're talking about a lesser guy that maybe it was okay,

I'm trying to think of somebody that would come to mind here. And I'm drawing a blank. I mean, there's Joe Nixon, Antonio Gibson, who I'm not going to take. I'm sure, Dalvin Cook. Yeah. Yeah. Marie, J.K. Dobbins, Alvin Kamara. I think I'm just, you know, fading all those guys and hunting RB2 with like, you know,

James White and hoping for the best, you know. You're just cuffing every. You're taking all the cuffs at that point, right? Yeah. Just loading up. All right. With, uh, you mentioned, Scott, you just mentioned, um, super flex with the quarterback position. I think that's, uh, let's touch on that before we move on to, um, maybe, maybe pivot

down to T. Some people have never played in Superflex league. So, you know, how, how do you approach a Superflex draft with the quarterback position? Because I know some guys, like, I've in the past faded the quarterback and it kind of bit me in the ass later. But I've also gone like my first two picks. Now I have my two anchors and just fill out the rest. Do you have a certain approach with Superflex quarterbacks? Yeah.

And if you're talking about what you need to be successful right away, I think QB1 is an absolute need. QB2 is something of a luxury that you can mix and match. You don't have to have this every week starter that you know is super reliable, but is also maybe only gaining your team three to four points per week. So I'm definitely more flexible with QB2. I can feel like that can be resolved with, just simply depth doesn't have to be high-end guys either, especially if it's truly adding viability to the rest of your starting lineup

compared to what having that second quarterback would be. But QB1 is something I do like to have in hand. Where are you at on that, Scott? What was that? I'm sorry. Just on Superflex in general, that's QB1 versus QB2. Yeah, I mean, so again, what I just alluded to, I think that's a viable strategy is, you know, because the quarterbacks

everyone wants are pushed all the way at the top, it does create some value for these, like, super old quarterbacks. Like, what's the difference between Derek Carr, who's 31, going in round three versus, and I love Derrick Carr, especially redraft, versus like Matt Ryan in round 13 or Tom Brady in round 11. Aaron Rogers is going in round three, round four. And he might play the same length as Tom Brady throughout the remainder. Or Zach Wilson and Matt Jones were like, granted, they're not the power law quarterbacks. They don't have the Konami code upside.

And I don't think they're going to be Justin Herbert levels of awesome arm talents. But I mean, they could be. And they're just, they're so young and they're still so cheap. So, but yeah, ideally you want a quarterback in round one of a superflex. You want a really good QV1. I always said I only trade down, but my one exception is I might trade up for Patrick and Holmes with the 101. I mean, I think Josh Allen's overtaken him, especially with Tyreek no longer there.

But that was my approach. You know, he'll play for another 15 years and he's freaking awesome. He's a legend. But yeah, I mean, and it's a position I'm willing to punt, especially QB2, just in that. They're going to be cheaper like running backs in rookie drafts than startups. In addition to the list of guys you just mentioned, you can aim even lower. I mean, you look in the eighth and ninth round, I can point out a 25-year-old quarterback with round one pedigree that I can essentially will guarantee will be a starter for. at least this year and next, even if he isn't on his same team this year.

Sound familiar. Oh, gosh, what are you talking about? Is it Baker? You might root for him. Daniel Jones. Oh, I mentioned Daniel Jones. Ninth round. We'll say.

The B-writers think there might be a quarterback controversy of Tyrod, but we'll see. Last quarterback question. I'm just throwing this one out there. At what point do you think you pivot to a non-quarterback and a superflex for the first round. You got a specific pick range. Like, I'm looking at a board. Taylor and Jefferson went at four and five. Chase went at seven.

The rest was pretty much quarterback. So Pitts went at the end of the first round. Is there a specific spot where you're drafting six, seven? I don't know that. You're like, all right, I'll wait until the next round for that quarterback. I essentially see no difference between QB4 and QB12. So I'm eagerly trying to trade back there. So that's my personal.

And I mean, there is such minimal difference in splitting hairs. And if you can actually get something of value to let somebody else make that choice for you, and then you still get one of those guys, that's just the easiest thing for me. All right. All right. We'll throw this one out there pretty quick. But, you know, I'm thinking to myself, I'm approaching a dynasty startup. Just speaking on players, Lamar, I mentioned Judy earlier, Swift, Elijah Moore.

I might later later take a guy like Komet. Like, I have a couple guys that come at. to mind are, you know, typical Nick script targets. Scott, do you have a list of typical Scott Barrett dynasty startup targets? Yeah, I'm just not great off the cuff. I don't know. I got a small list, Raddy. If you go ahead, buddy.

I got my personal, like, five guys. I'm usually taking Swift. I'm usually taking commit later. I'm usually taking Elijah more. Like, I got my typical, like, four or five guys. So I tend to have my guys, and this is a conversation Scott and I seem to have every year, and he's just like, you know, you're right. He's always like, you're right.

When it's my guys and it's guys I have to have and continuously have to keep drafting, they don't come with cost attached. They got to be like a third round rookie picker later. So if you're right, you are absolutely raking. But if you're wrong, there's essentially no cost to it. The diversification should come with more cost of guys. So just looking back to last year and a guy who is on my needs to be on all my team's list still, and this is actually a direct opposition to you, Nick, is KJ Hamler.

I truly believe he's the best pass catcher on the Broncos. I think he's going to show that this year with Russ, and he still costs nothing. So I want him on every team I can get him on, and I'm going to keep drafting him there. Just some other guys off the top of my head, or not even off the top of my head, but a post-type guy that can truly pay off his ADP right now with CEH, 100th overall. Cadarius Tony, 134th overall. Christian Kirk, 135th overall. Calvin Ridley, 172nd overall.

If you're punting this year, if you're in a startup and you're moving back, 172nd overall, Calvin Ridley, there's your guy. And actually- Sean Watson's going to be an amazing pick, too, once he's suspended for the full year. Yeah. Yeah. man. And here's one that is less sexy. RSJ, 225th overall on the tight-end premium league. I would be shocked if he was not a top 15 tight-up in the season.

Wow. I will just say, too, you asked us our favorite formats. T.J. and I definitely prefer having the rookie draft before the actual NFL draft. And so that could pay off in a big way if you're paying attention. I was telling T.J. how much I loved. Tyquan Thornton, Wondale Robinson, guys like that who were projected to go round five. And I'm like, there's no way they don't go day two. And so we just made a massive profit on those two guys. But also, there's just like nothing more fun than watching, as you can attest, Nick, you were there, watching the live NFL draft and rooting for your guys. It's like, oh, I had Drake London wide receiver one. He goes wide receiver one. Awesome. That's sick. Or Skymore, if you liked Skymore, oh, this is the perfect landing spot. Christian Watson, perfect landing spot with good draft.

The rookie draft before. Somebody mentioned this, too, the hype's real with the rookie drafts before the NFL draft. And we did one with, again, a bunch of Twitter guys that throwout content all the time and watch Malik Willis go 102 in the Superplex League. And then we have the NFL draft that makes the NFL draft even crazier. We went, we, I was in a startup draft before the NFL draft. Again, this is a startup. Malik Willis went in the early second round. That says everything you need to know right there.

I mean, it made your risk. You know, we ended up with the Willis sheriff in the first round of a rookie draft. In every league we drafted. And we have, we have quite a few of the draft before the NFL draft. I don't believe Willis. went past 102. Oh, yeah.

So here we come on the clock at a 104 and Willis is available. And, you know, it was a, he felt, Reese Walker Wilson. Yeah, Greece Walker Wilson off the board.

It just seemed like value. So we actually, we got penalized at 104, uh, taking Willis, but I think that's only one, only one. Yeah.

It was just sort of like an arbitrage play where, you know, the unanimous 101, supposedly. We don't have any shares. I think we're QV needy. So, So I want to finish things off at the end, just kind of picking your guys' brains about co-managing.

But we talked a lot about tradings. And it sounds like, TJ, that you're the scientist at trading. Let's say the startup's done. Startup is done. I actually, last night, I was doing a thread about just dynasty trading. You know, I was just throwing out little tidbits with an explanation, you know, just having the focus on making the team in the direction you want it to be. and identifying the other team's needs in the deal that you want to make and capitalizing on overperformances.

And I threw like Travis Folgham, you know, in that as an example. And I just was going through and just little tidbits of trade advice just for Dynasty because, again, people are new to Dynasty and people also are very hesitant because they don't want to jack up their team for the next 10 years or whatever the case is. So does a piece of advice come to mind for you? And we can have a whole show on this. but what's something you can tell somebody for just dynasty trading in general that comes in mind. Okay, dynasty trading in general, and I'm going to break this up with the two responses. You mentioned the first startup.

So you know what? You might botch your first startup. You might have a terrible team. You might take years to recover. But whatever you do, do it with conviction. Don't be the guy on the sidelines afraid to make a move. You know, you could be wrong. It could work out terribly.

And it could take you a couple years of recover. But you know what? What if it doesn't? What if you get it right? And what if you had fun making these deals? What have you had fun making these friends? What if you win? What's the problem with that?

So whatever you do, don't be afraid to pull the trigger on what you think is right. And you'll find out over time if it's right or wrong. That's the part of the learning curve. That's a process. Enjoy it. Enjoy it. Enjoy the process. It's not a destination.

As far as training in general, like you said, when the startup's over, say, okay, oh, man, I ended up with this guy. I didn't want to draft him. I still don't want them on my team. Well, you know what? Now is the time where you take a value. loss. Sometimes you have to do it. That's okay. You're not going to win every trade. And if you do, you're not going to have a lot of trading partners. So, you know, you're not trying to make 100% net profit on every trade. You're not going to win every trade. So sometimes you just understand,

you look at ADP, say, look, I personally prefer player A to player B that I have on my team. And player A is going three rounds later in startups. You know what? Maybe I screwed up. I'm just going offer this straight up and take what I can get. You know, that guy remember that next time he wants to trade. He's probably going to come to you first, so that's okay. You don't always have to win a trade. I think that's always

says if you've won every trade you've ever made, you're not trading nearly enough, and that's just so true. That's exactly right. I think that's an overemphasis, and almost like you see like fantasy Twitter, like, who won this trade? The calculator said this, but at the end of the

day, it's like, did your team get better? Did you fill out some needs? And I feel like that's always an over-emphasis on winning and losing trades. And it's fine to lose trades. It really is. I am so glad you said a magic word that should be addressed, especially if you're a newer dynasty player. The sea word, the sea world, the trade calculator. The sea world. Also that, yeah, easy for me to say. But honestly, that gives you a ballpark. Okay. It gives you perhaps consensus of other people's rankings and value It gives you a ballpark. It's far from absolute.

If you're seeing something that you think is fair and the calculator says you're winning, the other guy says, well, the calculator says, okay, move on to the next one. But if you see one that you think you're losing, you can beat the calculator. It is not hard to do. Sometimes you only have to wait a month, but you can absolutely beat the calculator. Don't be afraid to make a move you want to make. That's a great point. I'll about you, Scott.

What comes to mind trading just after the startup? you know, I'm a little hesitant to trade. Anything you can tell me. Yeah, again, just really talk to everyone, put in that work. You might value Jerry Judy as much as C.D. Lamb, right? But the guy who owns Jerry Judy might value him as much as KJ. Hamler. And you might have Noah fan who you've written off his dust after the Seattle trade, but he still views him as like a premium talent.

You could work something out where, you're both extremely happy. And really trading is net EV on the whole, where the more trades, the more not only you win, but the person you're trading with wins. And like we've been saying, you know, don't be afraid to lose a trade. It's one of those things where you take one step backwards, but you take two or three steps forward every time you make a series of trades. Let me piggyback on that.

That's great. So let's just create this tiny little flow chart for trading. Ideally, you're giving a player I want to sell for a player I want to buy. And you talk this through, that isn't going to work out. So now the next two items on the flow chart, a player I don't really want to sell for a player I want to buy. Or a player I want to sell for a player I'm on the fence about buying. Either way, you're putting yourself in a better position on your own evaluations. So you can trust them.

Just go down that flow chart and don't be. afraid to just throw out many options because sometimes it's just finding that right combination of things that gets the deal done and then everyone's happy. Do you guys have issues? And this kind of goes into my last question for the show. And I'll have another one after, but about co-managing because I've never co-managed a team. I'm stubborn as hell and I feel like I'd have some difficulties doing so.

But I've also heard from like you guys and some other guys that it's great. It's a lot of fun. It makes you learn from each other a little bit. Specifically about trading and we'll talk a little bit more about it afterwards. But is that an issue maybe with you two just specifically? Do you guys have issues making deals because of, I don't know, maybe budding heads on values or TJ wants to move on from a guy. And Scott's like, no, that's our lock.

How has that been working out for you guys through your time co-managing? Let's each give one thing we're pissed about. for times the other one's held us back. I know exactly what you're going to say. I'll say last year, I was like, I do not want to leave a draft without Elijah Moore. T.J. was like, I do not want to leave a draft without Rondale more. So there is like maybe one. I think there were three leagues where we left the draft without Elijah, but T.J.

Like, to appease me, went out and traded for him. I think there's only one league where I don't have Elijah where we do have Rondale. but it's that insanely stacked one we talked about before. TJ, what's the one thing you're still salty about? Let me pull out my scroll. He's like, I knew this topic would come up. It's going to be the dumbest thing. Yeah, you know exactly what it was.

We got off what's going to be a high 23 second round pick last season for Robbie Anderson. I'm like, we have to take this. And we didn't end up taking it, but that's okay. I was like that was Sam Arnold's guy, you know, we need the production now. And yeah, he's still salty about that. So, like, it can be very tricky to be co-managers with someone. And there were times where we were really at each other's throats and startups.

And those were, that's like our one bad team or not bad team, but just not super dominant and still like a high playoff team. But really. But really. We really. though this off season oh yeah yeah yeah all our teams are insane sorry sorry sorry yeah I mean like there's definitely been rough spots I think in DFB we got really frustrated with each other so we like traded off picks for maybe four rounds where it's like all right I pick my guy then you pick your guy then I pick my guy but I mean really we have the most amazing chemistry in the world and it's part of it

is just because we've learned to trust each other where we've seen that the results. And it's like, all right, you know what? And like, TJ is just like so dominant with trading and going out specifically to get my guys and getting them at a good price that I really like, okay, TJ, do whatever you want here. Oh, you want Kaja Hamler in literally every single league and this guy's giving you a hard time. You know, go ahead and do it. Things like that. So, and it just still, it works out in the long run. And the crazy thing is T.J's right more often than he's wrong. And like, even if I'm vehemently against them, it's, it's no better or worse than 50-50 at that point. Have you guys just playing in these leagues with co-managers? Have you guys

seen a lot of turnover just because of managers, buttonheads and not really being on the same page? Is that a big thing? Like, I'm actually generally, generally, genuinely asking this question because I have not played in a league. Is that a big issue? No, I would truly say leagues or teams with co-owners leave far less frequently. teams are sold alone. I would never guess. More engagement as well. And I'll say I also have another partner, Danny Kelly. I think I'm in like three leagues with him.

He's a good friend and it's fun to do these. And the teams are all really, really good. Maybe just not as good because I lost TJ's trade expertise. But we work really well and we both found our niches where Danny doesn't want to handle trades at all. He hates that. He hates negotiations. So I do that. And I hate waivers.

So he handles waivers and starts sit as like more of a conversation, but mostly him. And it works, it works really well having that sort of fragmented approach. But I haven't had any major issues with a co-owner. But now I'm in one with Joe Payneau currently ongoing. So we'll see how I guess. But it's hilarious you say that because my conversations with Danny are, you know, like buddy, you're better than me. evaluation, just pull the damn trigger. You know, like, you can do this. So some people are so scared that, you know, the other team is getting the upper hand on him on them. And part of this,

of course, is because, like, he knows what I've said about you and that you're, I don't know how you do it, but you just, like, never lose trades and you just always win trades. And so he's probably, like, especially nervous around you because of all I've gassed you up. But yeah, like, that hurts you like some people are like too scared of getting taken advantage of or they have to make like be confident that they're winning like you you do in fantasy in startups in redraft in bestball you need to have like he was saying with my recent startup you need to have a strategy you need to have conviction and like if that's your guy and your ranks say you have them above this other guy go ahead and do it who cares what a dp says i don't well i mean don't give away two rounds of

ADP. I mean, if you can take a value loss, yeah, after, yeah, because, because one thing TJ does that always, like, surprises me is he, like, starts off, like, shockingly low, but then continually works up and stays with it, doesn't get distruntled, doesn't get, and then, and then, so, like, it's not like, there's a happy medium. It's, it's, it's, it's like, there's like a cycle, psychology thing here where you start so low that the other person kind of settles for less than the otherwise should have,

that's something you do that you do pretty well. So be cognizant of that if you're getting offers like that, but also if you're trading, like don't be afraid to start really well. And like if the person gets insulted, just be like, oh, I'm sorry. What about this? Or what do you think would be more fair? Yeah, because that's, I mean, that also happens pretty often where you got the screenshot that goes somewhere probably shouldn't and kind of ruins things for later.

and some deals. But I mean, I'm that guy who gets offended and gets like, I'm like, I'm like, no, F this guy. Did you see that offer? Like, screw him. I hate his guts. And teachers like, but he has Elijah. We got a talk.

Yeah. It's like, all right. Okay. Back up to Brinks truck. All right. So closing the show out, if somebody was watching this, they've never done a dynasty startup. They've never been in a Dynasty League. Last question, what do they do?

I mean, do they go to Twitter? Do they start a group chat? Do they just wipe a bullet and become a commissioner? There's that chance that somebody wants to play. Maybe they heard the show, but they don't know where to go. What comes in mind? So the first and best option is make your first Dynasty League a home league. Make it with people that you know most of them.

You know, maybe it's extended friends where you might meet a few people, you know. You start with four guys and they start, you know, spreading the web out. And you can get just some dynasty experience under your belt, what to expect, and what's happening. Then maybe for one season or even for part of an off season, you're just following ADP, following player value movements. The next best option is, let's just say that's not feasible. Let's just say that's not feasible. Following the My Fantasy League Twitter page. Jeff is wonderful.

He's always retweeting everything. with league availability, with just guys asking questions, wanting to get engagement from the community. And they're really, really good about that. And I guess my next best would be the DLF forums. There's always leagues with openings that you can find in there. What about you, Scott? Well, Scott doesn't like that one. Go to fantasy points.com, subscribe, check at our dynasty rankings.

If you don't have any friends who you want to start a league with, check out myfPC.com. got their tri-flex leagues or some of their other dynasty leagues. I know you wanted to wrap the show up, Nick, but I just have one question. Oh, go ahead. Oh, also hop in our Discord. We're really helpful in there. And if you want to message me privately on Discord or maybe even on Twitter and I can send you some examples of trades that TG and I have made in past startups and the value we've got,

I should honestly write an article on this, and I probably will in the next few weeks. Yeah, last question. What about a dynasty bestball startup, TJ? Because I was just in one, and I posted out my team, and people like hated my team, but I loved my team. And I think what happened, I traded down nonstop. I have like 10 round one picks over the next two years. And I love all the players I took, too, especially at value.

I think teams really overrate premium assets and they really underrate, depth and the importance of depth. And so I really- Particularly in basketball. For sure. Yeah, particularly in best ball, for sure. And I'm not sure I saw the finished version of that team. But, I mean, I'm 100% certain.

I'll agree with you, you know, if I saw it. So, yeah. I mean, having the depth where, you know, six pretty good guys can go off and you drafted somebody higher and didn't capitalize on maybe trading down and that guy gets hurt. Now your whole team is a bit different. So depth is, depth is everything in a, in a best ball league. That's it. All right. All right. Scott, anything else with the best ball drafts? Anything to throw out there before we close it out?

No, check out Graham and I, two bars, worst take tomorrow night. It should be really fun. What time is that going to be at? Oh, TBD. Check the, is that going to be a live stream? Can we just hop on Twitter and find it? Oh, apparently Graham has to reschedule, so he just broke my heart. I've been looking forward to this for weeks. All right, so TBD on that. Sorry, guys. Damn it, Graham, am I going to have to be the better looking replacement?

E.J., appreciate you joining us, man. I know we're trying to get this show going, and I'm glad we got it kicked off.