Fantasy Football Daily - 2022 Take Talk Episode 14

Episode Date: October 19, 2022

Brett Whitefield (@BGWhitefield) and Steven ORourke (@callmesteveo7) revisit their preseason award predictions and checked in on how accurate they are so far while incorporating a Week 6 review. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's time for the Fantasy Points podcast brought to you by FantasyPoints.com. Top level fantasy football and NFL betting analysis from every perspective and angle, from numbers to the film room with a single goal to help you score more fantasy points. Hello everyone and welcome into episode 14 of the Take Talk podcast. I'm Stephen O'Rourke and as always I'm with my co-host, Brett Whitefield. and Brett, I know we're an NFL podcast, but what a great game on Saturday last week. Hendon Hooker, Bryce Young, Alabama, Tennessee, early game of the year in college. And it fits because we talked about Hendon Hooker on Friday.

What did you think of that game? What did you think of Hendon Hooker? I mean, Hendon Hooker is amazing. But real quick, Steve, I need like a little more forward. play than that man more foreplay yeah like this is episode 14 you know we're kind of like podcast vets now right we're no longer we're no longer rookies we're no longer green so like i need like i need like you know like i need like so yeah more foreplay man so like how are you steve how are you doing i'm doing well it's colder here michigan has officially hit fall it oh that's a great

way. Steve, cider mills. Have you gone to any yet? I have not gone to any yet. I probably haven't gone to one in years. You've been an out-of-towner, for those that don't know, Steve, lived in Boston for a while. Yes. No, he's returned home.

We didn't do any cider mills there either. But. Yeah, especially up, you know, get up into Vermont, New Hampshire. Oh, is it? Okay. That where you get into more rural areas. Am I dumb for thinking cider mills? was a Michigan thing?

Probably not totally. I feel like they're more prevalent here. Okay. Okay. I love cider mills. I love cider mill season. We're going to go to a cider mill this weekend. So I'm pretty excited.

I feel like cider mills are such a, you have all the kids now. I feel like cider mills are such a perfect, like, kids-centric thing to get them, just get them outside and like something different outside. I feel like it's so,

valuable to just like wear them out for a day. Oh yeah. And you so you get there, you get your cider and donuts. You get them just completely just amped up on sugar. They'll cram two, three donuts with a couple of glasses of cider, which my kids never get that kind of stuff. We're pretty, you know, strict on their diet. And so when they have it, though, they just start bouncing off the walls.

And then you just unleash them into all the activities that most cider mills. Right. Hay rides and, you know, cornfield mazes and. heading animals. We go to the cider mill called three cedars. It's in Plymouth or Northville, maybe. Yeah. It's like right on the border there.

And it's phenomenal. What I love about it is they have a bunch of activities that are free. Like they have this giant kids area. They just run around and play. And there's slides and hay bales to jump around and climb up. And a ton of free activities to do, which is really cool because you can kill two, three hours there, easy. Right.

And then you can do a few of the paid attractions as well, like the hay rides or the picking up some pumpkins or whatever you got to do. But it's definitely a great time. And it's one of my favorite things about Michigan is you get to enjoy the fall. I hate the winter, but the fall is nice, even though it's a precursor to the winter. Fall is my favorite season, personally. I think it trumps all. Yeah, I think it probably does.

I mean, I'm a big sucker for summer too. But the only thing that stinks about fall is it's just, you know, winter's looming. It's like, I feel like John Snow, like trying to convince everybody. Winter's here. It's coming. All right. I'm good now. I'm ready to get into the football talk.

All right. We got our non-football talk, NFT. We got our NFT in. All right. I better remember there is other stuff out there. Yeah, I forget during the season. Honestly, there are times where I forget that there are other things other than football and that people, not everybody watches football.

That always comes to surprise to me. Yeah, well, I've been saving my Lord of the Rings rant. I've been trying to escape it because. Sitting on that one. It's been brewing for a few weeks now, and the season finale was on Friday, and it just, you know, I already went. on one and I don't want to bore the listeners of that again but right it was the most disappointing bit of media I've watched in my entire life versus expectations yeah so but I'll say that I'll save that

for another day maybe maybe we can talk shows another time yeah because game of thrones has been fantastic so that's worth talking about but uh anyways yeah you brought up hendon hooker the Alabama game it was it's a perfect time to talk about it as you said because we just had ragey on on Friday and we just talked Hennon Hooker and Ray laid it out clear his day for everyone like hey this guy's playing out of his mind and he has a clear path to getting drafted in the first round and the clear path is his schedule and first stop on the list is Alabama and Hennon Hooker you know they hosted Alabama so he was it was a home game but he went out on the field and he took care of business and beat the juggernaut that is Alabama and it was one of the best

college football games you've seen in years, probably will be the best one for this year. It was awesome. Instant classic. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it was a great game. Tennessee, I've thought this so far this year that, like, college football is more fun when teams like Tennessee are good.

They're just like old, like old historic programs that were good, you know, years ago. It just brings back some of the feel of like the 90s to football. ball having Tennessee good again. But, I mean, that's not even a take away from the fact that Bryce Young played well, too. We got to look at two, one, like, pretty bona fide first rounder and then one potential first rounder and Hennon Hooker. And, I mean, it was entertaining all the way around. Oh, for sure.

And Hooker just, he continues to check boxes. So, I mean, this was the first time he went up against. a juggernaut defense and just, man, I can't help but be impressed of this guy. And I kind of like discussing this, Steve, because we've been spending time talking about QBs and what the

QB acquisition process in the NFL should look like. Yes. Right off the bat, we got this guy Henan Hooker, who's probably playing better than any QB in the country right now. I mean, next to CJ Stroud and Bryce Young, but he's definitely playing better than Willevis. He's definitely been playing better than Anthony

Richardson and some of these other guys have been highly touted. Right. But the big red flag that everyone from now until April is going to throw out is he's 25 years old. Yes, as if it's a harbinger of death and he's already kicking rocks and they already have a grave ready for him. Like a 25 year old going into the NFL, I mean, it just kind of happened a little bit with Vellis Jones.

but like you would think It's a position It wouldn't even matters a little bit You know But like you would think that These guys Have one foot in the grave With how like

It's fun It's just funny The perception of age When you're talking about like The draft compared to guys Who are actually in the NFL Like when they actually get in the NFL It's all

It's just funny And like of course It's getting I mean Henin Hooker's gonna get hit with it But I like But more so than any other position I think that it just it doesn't matter that much. Yeah.

Just doesn't matter that much. And if anything, it could be an advantage. I think there's some truth of that. And that's like a sneaky talking point that really no one's probably talking about. But when you say it's an advantage, what do you mean by that? I just mean that at five years, you know, like sometimes when it's when a guy's that old, when he's into 25, it's a situation of, you know what you're getting. Like, people will look at 25,

and the reason that a lot of, like, teams and scouts and all that freak out at 25 is because they're just worried at that point that the player is, like, they've reached their developmental peak or, like, near their developmental peak, and the potential has been mostly realized or unrealized, and there isn't much upward growth from there.

But with Hendon Hooker, he's 25, and he's continuing to develop. He's showing that he can continue to elevate his game. And so there's value in bringing someone who is, you know, 25, a little bit older because they have experience around teams. They have experience around building teams. And they just like, again, he's just a guy that's going to be, that's going to figure it out a little bit faster because he's not as young.

He's seen more football. He's seen more complex things. as he's gone through his college career. And I just think that there's value to bring that in to a locker room that may have an established culture or a locker room that has like weapons around him and you can just kind of drop him in and go. Like that's going to be a situation where I think that he can excel because he does have things a little bit more solidified in himself rather than, you know,

some of these guys that are 20, 21, even 22. Yeah. I agree with you. The thing everyone's going to throw up is, you know, the fact that, A, we've seen Braynon Weiden was an old first roundback. He was like 27, though. Yeah. And so they're going to cite that as not working.

And then also they're going to say, well, man, if, if, you know, how come he couldn't dominate at the level he's dominating at when he was younger, basically. Like it took till he was a grown man playing against boys, basically. That's the line they're going to give you. But to add to your point, man, I think when you're a team that's, there's probably a bunch of good examples. Maybe the 49ers are one.

I know they have Lance, but they're a team that's really well established. That staff has been there a while and hasn't yielded fantastic results yet. well think about it this way Steve what comes with age wisdom maturity yeah having your house in order so these are things you would expect from a 25 well he's only 24 now but it'll be 25 when the draft rolls around right um those are things you expect from a 25 year old

that you don't necessarily expect from a 20 21 22 year old right and when you hear the guy talk it even clicks even more like dude this guy is a stud And I don't want to steal a talking point from my buddy Joe Marino, but I talked to him about this a little bit. And he was basically saying, like, listen, you know, Tennessee had an exodus last year. All their players went to Oklahoma or transferred elsewhere. Right. And Hendon Hooker stayed and decided he was going to be the dude here and carry this team and he's done it.

But he just seems like such a good dude with a great head on his shoulders. plus he's he's got the age. So back tracing now, putting a guy like that into a team that's already ready to go, like the 49ers, that's attractive to me. I'm not by any means saying they'll do it. Just giving you an example of a team where maybe age makes a little bit more sense. Right. I think about, I mean, not to always hit the Lions drum,

but think about the Lions, man. They have a decent quarterback in golf who maybe, you know, they can move on from, maybe they want to keep them. but that regime has taken a really slow approach to the rebuild. Yes. And it's been on purpose, so I'm not saying it wasn't on purpose, but maybe adding a guy with that level of maturity and wisdom, 25 into the mix,

might be a better option for them than building that team up to then just throw a 21-year-old in there who's going to be a wild card, you know? Right. I think you're right, man. I think there's some utility to this that is not being spoken. And going back to the team building conversation, Steve, like he's 25 years old. Okay. So you know within the first three or four years if it's going to work, right?

Right. If it works, you have success. That's great. It was worth it then. You make a couple deep playoff runs. Who knows? Maybe you catch a Super Bowl appearance. Maybe you win one.

Cool. It worked. It was definitely worth the gamble. If it doesn't work, you're moving on from them anyways, just like you would have, whether it was a 21 or 22 year old. Right. And in today's NFL guys are playing, quarterbacks are playing easily into their mid-30s.

Oh, I mean, easily. I mean, some guys aren't hitting their peaks until their 30s. Like, I mean, there's, you know, there's, we're learning something. I don't think anybody really knows what yet, but I think we're learning something with this Russell Wilson thing. With the way that his season is going on,

the way he's aging, I think that after the year, there's going to be some people who are going to use this as a thought experiment to kind of really like dig into quarterback development because I don't think a lot and I don't think a lot. I don't think really anybody saw this coming this year from him. He's 35 and his game is just showing not to age as well as some other quarterbacks who are hitting about the same age. and taking their teams to the next level. Like a Matthew Stafford, Tom Brady, you know, was doing it at that age. Aaron Rogers was at that age. A couple years ago was doing the same thing.

Like, and people thought it was going to translate with Russell Wilson. But this, just to say, we're still evaluating him at like, you know, he was an older quarterback coming in and we're still looking at him. And it's year 10. And, okay, we're having these conversations now. But guess what, like, you're not going to have these conversations in this. the first four years. Like, if they're making it past their first contract as a rookie, like, age goes out the window.

Now you're just, now you're just looking like to go. And it's just season by season. It's no longer like really looking into the future and trying to like plot out, you know, okay, we just signed him to his second contract. But he turns 35 in six years. So we need to start thinking about that. Like that's not the case. Like you said, all the matters is like,

finding a guy that can win you, that can help you win games. Yeah. Like we play the age game and they're like, you know, obviously there are some positions where that does hold a lot of value. And there are, you know,

situations where, you know, an older player isn't necessarily what you're looking for. But Henan Hooker's 25, but guess what? He's still beating like an Alabama defense and beating teams because he's athletic. This isn't like,

oh my gosh, he just like, he's just winning because he, knows the game better he's been around longer like that happens with some quarterbacks where it's like yeah he's got four years of experience in this offense he can pick apart a team but like the athletic upside just isn't going to be there that's why you have like got some guys that'll put up gaudy stats and you know they never see the light today in the NFL but with Hennon Hooker yeah he's 25 but he's still doing

this both cerebrally and he's doing it athletically he's yeah he's right on par with like those athletes at Alabama that are 18, 19, 20 that are still developing, he's right there with him. It's not like there's this huge deficit there. And his game can translate to the NFL well, especially the NFL that we're seeing now with more mobile quarterbacks and even quarterbacks that aren't necessarily like, you know, Lamar Jackson, but like quarterbacks like Patrick Mahomes who like their mobility is a weapon. And it's not necessarily like, you know, we're going to design run them all the time.

But it has value in, like, progressing in offense more and opening up more opportunities. Yeah, the athleticism thing is crucial, too, because, like, that matters more for a guy who only relies on athleticism, like maybe a Lamar Jackson or even Kyler to an extent. Like, you take his athletic. I mean, we've seen it. He gets hurt. He's not the same player when his body doesn't function away. So hooker, he is athletic and he can use his legs when he needs to, but he's got the arm talent where he doesn't have to. Right.

So I'm not really even really worried about that. I think it will be a good asset for him when he's young. Like even just this past game against Alabama, like passing the ball was very good, very efficient, made a big throw almost every time he needed to. But you know what? When he didn't, when he wasn't able to, when he couldn't get the look you wanted, when his guys weren't open, he got five first sounds with his leg. legs. Yeah. And that was a huge part of them winning that game.

But it's not some, it's not the focal point of his game. He's another one of these guys where, you know, he, he moves in the pocket and breaks down structure to get what he wants, throwing the ball more than running it. So I,

I really have just blown away by what I've seen from this guy. Man, like his arm talent is, is crazy. Yeah. Like I, I keep coming back to that. Like that, I'm taking a chance on that every time.

You know, I know I was a big Malik Willis guy this past draft because of the arm talent. NFL didn't agree with me necessarily. But Hooker's right up there too with just ridiculous arm talent, good athletic ability, and he's doing it on the biggest stage possible. My favorite thing about Hooker, though, Steve, is last year he threw for three interceptions, this year just two, per. John Costco at PFF. He is a turnover

worthy throw rate of less than 2%. Like this dude takes care of football. So that age is really manifesting itself well, I think, because he's... Right. Some of it's Heples offense, of course. He makes it easy on quarterbacks. And that will be another criticism of him, by the way, is he played in this

offense that's favorable to him, which side note, every quarterback in the college football does. Right? Like, all these guys are coming from systems that are pretty simple and they're not really getting coached to read defenses. They're basically progression reads where it's just, and most of their throws are our first read throws.

So whether that's Justin Fields or Trevor Lawrence or Mack Jones or Hendon Hooker, it's pretty much, you know, not the exact same system per se, but these systems that are really designed to maximize QB play. Which, like, the NFL is not, is not, moving that way totally but there is more of that like there's more development in the like giving your quarterback one read offenses that like plays that still play decently well i mean obviously there's the ceiling to that and you're you're kind of only really using that as a segue to you know build a guy's confidence get him comfortable you know with the with the speed in the

NFL things like that and then you start to you know develop him in like in the reading defenses, things like that, like after, you know, after you've laid a baseline. But like that's like, even that criticism in,

in and of itself is losing validity in today's NFL. Oh, for sure. And I mean, Jaylen Hertz is the template for how quickly you could make Hendon Hooker work in the NFL. Yeah.

Like, let's say Hooker has no ability to read a defense. I'm not saying he does, by the way. I'm just saying we're, I'm playing devil's advocate. Let's say that's true. Right.

What, the Eagles have done with Hertz is the template for how we can make this guy work while we develop them because I mean that's what Heipel is basically doing with him he's putting defenses in conflict right and we'll talk about the Dallas Philly game in a little bit too but it would that was a perfect example of what you know you can do to put a defender a team's best defender in conflict and that's what Heipel did against Alabama he's I don't know how much you paid attention to their formations and what they were you know scheming up but hypoil's air raid is so unique because he takes,

he does all these bunch sets and he'll put three guys outside the numbers. And you know the numbers in college are so tight to the sidelines. Right. And so what's crazy about that, Steve, though, is like you at most can put five or six guys in the box.

So you're opening up running lanes in that RPO game is so freaking effective because the sixth defender, the fifth and sixth defender, a lot of times they're coming from the far hash. Right. To defend the play, it's like you are literally putting their defense in conflict on every single play. And the second you make a mistake, a guy as smart as Hennon Hooker is going to make you pay for it,

whether it's with his legs or with him dropping a dime over the top of your defense for a touchdown, which he did three times in this game. Right. So, I mean, it seems like Heipel is using him the same way he should be using the NFL. In fact, I'd be like tempted to try to pair those two. If you were to draft Hooker and maybe bring in his play caller as a. But I don't think he's leaving Tennessee anytime soon. No, not after Saturday.

His version of the air raid wouldn't necessarily work in the NFL because they don't have the wide hashes. But point being, I would love to see Hooker land with a guy who's going to be creative like that and understands how to constantly put the defense in conflict. Yes. And I will be interested to see as we get into the draft process. post you know pre post Super Bowl just like I don't know this like reminds me of a Lamar Jackson situation or even a Deshawn Watson situation or to a little bit of lesser of a degree Aaron Rogers but just like it'll be interesting to see if we do this thing where Hennon Hooker puts up great numbers this year and kind of just puts it all to get puts it all

out there for everyone and the NFL just goes and overthinks it and hend and hooker ends up going towards the end of the first round and all of a sudden and you know he goes to a contender and like balls out right away and turns yeah i don't know i just could see a situation where that happens with him because sometimes like sometimes like it is it's just a matter of overthinking it yeah and i just feel like he used to do that all the time We could get into that situation with Hendon Hooker, but it'll be interesting to see because it is also such a, like this is a, I mean, it didn't happen last year, obviously,

but the year before, this quarterback class will probably rival, like the Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson. Like, it'll probably rival that quarterback class in the amount of attention it draws come draft time. Yeah, I think that's fair. One last point on Hinden Hooker. Are you familiar with the platform called Mojo? I am not.

Okay, so Mojo is basically this new, I don't want to say DFS. It's not sports betting. It's basically the stock market for players, Wall Street. It's only currently legal in New Jersey, I believe. Okay. So I'm secretly hoping, and shameless plug here, I'm secretly hoping that maybe one day they sponsor the podcast because I'm fascinated in what they do. But anyways,

Hendon Hooker's stock on Mojo, Friday going to the game, I think Chris told me it was like 12 and a half. Okay. After the Alabama game, it shot up to over 14.5. It's like 14.4. It's like a 15-ish percent increase in one game.

Yep. If you were to buy 100 chairs of Hooker last week and then sell them after the Alabama game, you easily make a couple hundred bucks. Right. That's nuts. And not only that, He's going to have a bunch of opportunities.

Think about this. Shoot, I don't have his schedule in front of me, but I know he's got some more tough. He's got Georgia coming up. He's got LSU coming up. He'll have potentially a SEC championship game if they keep winning. He'll potentially have CFD playoff if they keep winning. He'll potentially have national championship.

Now, that's unlikely, but it's possible if they keep winning. And then Steve, he's going to be in the Heisman conversation. His numbers are ridiculous. Oh, yeah. He's going to be a first-round draft pick. So there's literally 10 opportunities for this guy's stock to spike. Yeah. If I lived in New Jersey and was on the Mojo platform, I would be buying Hinden Hooker stock now.

Like a lot of – well, I would have bought it last week, actually, when I talked about him on Friday with you and Ray. And he did this all Saturday without one of his top wideouts, right? Right. Cedric Tillman, yeah. Yeah. Like that – there's also value in that as well. I mean, he personally, if it wasn't already started or if it wasn't already reaching its peak, like he basically gave his receiver Hyatt like an immediate boost. Oh, that dude's a ball or the holy cow.

Yeah. He's made for the modern NFL. Like my goodness. Talk about helping him put his name on the scene. But yeah, overall, they play, they play Tennessee Martin. this upcoming week and then they go Kentucky and Georgia. So they'll see, you know, two solid teams. And we get to see he played against Bryce Young.

And so we'll get to see him against Will Levis. So those are, those will be another, it'll be another good like measuring bar game. I'm going to need to see, um, Hype will keep hooker in for that entire game this weekend to pat his stats for the Hyman. Like I need to see that.

I need him to play four quarters against Tennessee Martin. I mean, they did it against Akron, so. Did he play all four quarters? I'm pretty sure he played close to all four quarters. That's awesome. Get that, Heisman. Pad those stats. Let's go. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I don't think there's any shame in doing that. I love it. Yeah, that receiver, though, is Jaylon Hyatt, right? Is his name? Yes. Yes. He is a freak, man. Like, he is, that dude has got some absolute game-changing speed.

I yeah his stock is definitely on the rise I think is he a junior do you know um I don't but keep talking and I can look it up real quick yeah well I mean we'll definitely as we start to get into the um you know the prospects this year we'll talk more and more about him but uh he's a redshirt sophomore so he is eligible for the draft yeah dude in high school he ran a 10 4-600 meter yeah that's crazy that is nuts it's not you know that's not national championship fast, but it's state championship fast for sure. That's ridiculously fast. And as a high school or that kick it can get better.

He allegedly has a 4-3-1-40 already on the books. Jeez. But yeah, this is good, I mean, it's, yeah, we'll definitely be coming at everyone more with draft talk, prospect talk, more in-depth once we hit closer than the, like, you know, once we hit the off-season, I know, we'll go full. into prospect mode. Prospect mode. We will get to continue to kind of see the development of Hennon Hooker and, you know, guys

around him and just, it's going to be fun to watch this quarterback conversation play out as we get, you know, like I said, as we get closer to, you know, pre-draft time. Just because I feel like nobody is like, nobody, none of the Will Levis, Bryce Young, CJ Stroud have come out and like firmly planted their flag as like I'm QB1. Certainly not. And anyone that says otherwise is mistaken. And so that's where like, you know, what Hed and Hooker is doing this year. And, you know, those types of situations make this period fun because you start to see some of the early hype drop on some guys.

you see a lot of like, you know, leveling of the sand and then you see the spikes of guys that are raking their way up. So it'll be fun to see how this quarterback conversation plays out because there are QB needy teams and teams that will want to shake things up. And these are all guys that, you know, look to look as if they're able to, they're going to be able to contribute in like pretty early on. Right. into the NFL. Yep. I'm excited for draft talk, even though it's only

week seven of the NFL season, Steve. We have to talk about the NFL at some point today, so we might as well get into that. But I had an idea for today, Steve. Lay on me. I think we should revisit all of our preseason award talk because I know a lot of guys like to do the halfway point, but I think we know enough now.

We can talk about it now. And then we can talk about it again, like six or seven weeks when we're down the stretch. Yeah. We can kind of make those final pushes for guys. Like, hey, what do these guys need to do to get to the level to win that award? So now I think it'd be a good time to just revisit. Because some guys we know for sure are out.

They've fallen off. Yes. And then some of the, some of these races are pretty clear already. And I think we can at least revisit the takes that we did have. Yes. So let's jump into that. Let's start. Let's kind of wait for last for MVP.

because I think that's the best. So let's go to like, let's kick it off with like offensive player of the year. Offensive player of the year. Well, I have my, I have my, you know, episode one notes up that I took. And offensive player of the year, I had Justin Jefferson going first, which that's in play, 100%. He had, like, got dice. you there for two weeks where he seemingly got kind of shut out against Philly and Detroit, but he's come right back on, right back onto the scene, and he's, you know, he's back to his

normal self. He had a, he had over 100 yards last week, and it seemed pretty quiet, but Minnesota, I mean, Minnesota is, I mean, five and one. They're finding ways to win games. It may not always be pretty, but it doesn't matter. They're winning games. And this team is looking to be a team that is, you know, going to be in contentioned for a playoff spot and for sure the NFC North. I mean, they're at the top of the NFC North right now. And so, like, that looks good in the sense that I think Justin Jefferson is totally in play for that because he helps that offense go. He helps that offense move.

And even when he's not necessarily getting the ball in games. against teams like Detroit where, you know, they were kind of bracketing him, you know, like shading, shading a safety over to his side, those type of things. Like that opened up, that opened up the offense for Adam Thielen to have a good game. And for, you know, KJ Osborne to have a better game than what he's had in most of his, in most of his games this year. And so, like, I mean, Justin Jefferson absolutely is in play for offensive player of the year.

The other two guys I had, though, not so much. Jonathan Taylor isn't even playing. Hold on. Let's pump the brakes real quick. Yeah. Because I want to talk Jefferson, too. Okay. Because Jefferson was my number one guy.

So first and foremost, we have to reset the stage for the listeners. If they don't remember, for this award, we realize a quarterback's probably going to win it, or at least most years they do. So we went non-QB for this award. The best non-QBs that have a chance to win offensive player of the year. We both went with Jefferson. His numbers this time last year to now are eerily similar, and he didn't win it last year. Check this. Like his yards per route run this year is 2.8, which is a good number.

It's a third in the NFL, actually. Great number. He was at 2.9 last year this time. his 27% targets per route run is 12th. He was at 29% last year. Granted, that offense is throwing the ball a little bit more. So his targets are actually increased a little bit, even though he's being targeted a little bit less per route run, but marginally.

Yeah. Another cool, interesting fact is he's playing in the slot a lot more this year. He's on pace right now to go over like 225 routes from the slot. Last year, he only did like 160. So it's a good 30% uptick or so. And he's had a big uptick in production from the slot. Last year's yards per route run from the slot was only 2.3. Actually, I shouldn't say only.

That's still a pretty good number from the slot. This year, it's all the way up to 3-4, which is nuts. And he's running routes from the slot, like the 12th most in the NFL, actually, which is pretty nuts. So he's playing a lot of slot. But here's the big concerning number for me, Steve. and I don't know if they can sustain his production with this number being the way it is. Adda has dropped from 12-7 this year to 7-7-7 this year from 12-7 last year. Yeah.

And he is getting seven yards after the catch per reception. Right, which is different. He's already forced more mistackles this year than needed all of last year. Right. But the production he is having right now. I don't know if you can do it with an eight out of seven, seven, seven over the course of the season. They got to get that number up. When you agree, I mean, he's so dominant in the intermediate and deep part of the field.

I don't understand why they're not getting him the ball there, at least as consistently as they were last year. Yeah, I mean, do you think it's just that, you know, more, more so than ever. Like, people are on notice of Justin Jefferson. and honestly, I think that, like, I think that Kevin O'Connell is really just trying to get the ball in his hands. And I think he's just, he's kind of just realizing how much, how much teams are shadowing, bracketing Justin Jefferson. And he's just trying to get him in space and get him the ball and let him go. Is I imagine what the thought process is behind that low, A-DOT. That could definitely be true.

I do think, too, Chris uncovered the stat yesterday via Twitter, but deep throwing this year is way down across the league. If you look at last year, Joe Burrow, Matt Stafford, Lamar Jackson, Tom Brady, Kyler Murray, and Kirk Cousins all averaged 8.9% or higher deep throw rate. This year, they've all fallen dramatically. Cousins is all the way down to 6.1% deep throw rate. That's almost a decrease of 3%. Yeah. To the layman, that might not sound like a lot, but you're talking one or two deep shots a game less per team.

Now, if one of those two targets goes to Jefferson, that pretty much solves the A dot question, right? Right. So that is interesting. I've looked into this too because a lot of people are, we hear a lot of talk about single high versus too high. Yeah. And the rates aren't, they haven't really changed.

There's maybe a moderate uptick in too high, but it's not that much. So I don't think that's to blame for this. I think teams, they're playing a lot more zone. And they're maybe a little bit deeper zones to try to take away the deep pass. But I don't think it's a single high for it's too high issue. Because you can defend the deep ball just fine from cover three if you're going to play your deep safety, you know, 19 yards off the ball. Well, and like I just, I think it just comes out to, it seems like, like just teams being more fluid in the way they play zone.

They're just better. It's not even that it's like, you know, they're doing anything super innovative or anything like that. I think it's just that we finally, I think it's just we finally hit the point where defenses have kind of caught up with offenses. Like offenses were pushing ahead of defenses for the last like five years as far as innovation. and, you know, just workshopping plays that, you know, put defense in conflict and push the ball down the field a little bit more. But I think we're finally just seeing defenses are settling in a little bit more and figuring out some of the more, just some concepts and figure out how to guard them and just playing

it a little bit like smarter and more fluidly. Because like it is, it's not like they're doing it. Teams are doing anything crazy. It's just that I think the teams are utilized. cover three better. I think teams are utilizing cover two better. They're just playing more disciplined and better football. Yeah, the bend but don't break theme is definitely seems like it's made a comeback in the NFL. There's a lot of teams that are playing this really soft underneath. Like the Rams do this all the time to the point where it's actually

annoying to watch. But the soup, it's so soft underneath. They'll give you a three, four yard a dot catch every play if you want it. Right. It basically bore you into oblivion. Then once you get in the red zone, they tighten up and either they force a field goal or a really deep punt, you know. I think that's like, I know you wanted to go to Taylor next, but this

transitions well to Cooper Cup because I hit Cup is my second guy. Stafford's another one of those guys on that list who's not throwing the deep ball. A lot of that's O-line related for him. His O-line's been tremendously bad. And they just lost another one. Yeah. The other left tackle, right? No boom.

Yeah. Is he out for the season? I think so. I mean, he wasn't exactly playing well, but that's still a big, big bummer. It doesn't bode well for what's behind him. Yeah, for sure. Potentially. But going back to Cups, so he's putting up good numbers still.

But it's mostly just pure volume at this point. Like his yards per route run is down to two six. year and it was at 4.2 last year. Yeah. That's a crazy, crazy slip. His productivity from the slots dropped almost a whole yard per route run from this year over last. Yeah. So I mean, his efficiency is just falling off a cliff.

And I think a lot of that is they can't get him the ball deep and, you know, teams have kind of figured out how to stop him from killing them. And again, it's just like that. like it's teams playing this soft zone and Cooper Cup is obviously like one of the best in the NFL at working in space but like they they really just work him short a ton because he's a bona fide checkdown at that point for them he's a more productive checkdown than kicking it out to the running back and so that's I mean that's kind of what they're utilizing him as is just like a hey go get open and you know be a second option well with the way that their offense is run

and i think we touched on a little bit ago but they're truly missing the deep threat to their offense i think that kind of helps make that offense go but it's really just like utilizing cooper cup in you know short situation or not short situation but short route tree and just like using him as, all right, you're our second, you're our, like, first checkdown because a checkdown to Cooper Cup will go, you know, we'll average more seven to eight yards, whereas a checkdown to the running back may average only like two to four yards. Because his A dot, his A dot is only seven. Like him and Jefferson look similar in that, and that, like, the A dot's way down.

And they're both getting, it's both like high. or yak production from them because I think that their teams are using them more in like a in a safety blanket like you we know what you can do after the catch you're you can get us four to five extra yards that you know four to five extra yards at a you know five yard throw compared to you know a running back and risk and getting blown up at the back field or things like that for sure for sure. All right.

Quickly, we'll hit Taylor. The problem with Taylor... I don't even know if there's anything to talk about. It's just he hasn't played. Yeah, he isn't played. And I'll just say this quickly. When he has played, he hasn't looked good, to be honest. Right.

His mistackles force per attempt is way down, like 0.15 this year. I think he ranks in the 50s somewhere among running backs at least 25 carries, which is not great for a guy who's billed as being the stud that he is. He's also just not really hitting any explosive plays. Yeah, he hit... Yards after contact per carry are way down. Yeah, I remember him hitting one against... I can't remember who it was,

but he hit, like, one explosive run, and that's, like, all I feel like I've seen from him so far this year. And again, we have not seen a lot of him in general because he's been hurt. But still... Yeah, he still has 81 carries in the season. Right. So, but yeah.

Yeah, he hasn't played a lot of... lot hasn't been great when he has. So pretty simple summary there. And then your last guy was Alan Robinson. Oh, my last guy was Aaron Jones. Aaron Jones. Okay. This is puzzling, dude. I don't get the Jones thing, man. It's, I don't, I mean, I don't understand the Green Bay offense right now. I like, they, like Aaron Jones this year in the run game, 70 rushing attempts, 400 yards, 5.8 yards per carries, 8.6% explosive play rate. It's almost, or almost 75% of his runs go over three yards or more. Like he looks to, I mean, well, he's been productive as heck when they get in the ball. Yeah, on paper, he's been one of the most productive rushers in the NFL. But Green Bay, I mean, Green Bay is very committed to using, they use their pony package a ton,

which, you know, that's getting both Aaron Jones and A.J. Dillon on the field at the same time. And like, I, it's just, yeah, like you said, it's weird. They, Aaron Jones has some of the profile to like be in this conversation. It's just the production and their overall offense just isn't there. I mean, he's, he's got a. You know, he only sees 11% target share, though. He has had 23 targets through the year. He's only averaging one yard per route run.

Like, his numbers don't look all that great. But if you watch their games, his usage could be there. It's just that I think that, like, this offense is kind of just stuck in mud a little bit. It's really bad, man. It's a little painful to watch this offense go. I think against the Jets, Aaron Rogers at least, like, his A-DOT went up. He was up towards nine yards, nine yards per throw. But, or, yeah, but, like, throughout the year, his A-DOT is way down.

I mean, I think it's barely above five. And just, like, this offense, it just looks so painstakingly hard for them to move the ball down the field. And it happened against the Jets. Like, their offensive line got beat up pretty good against. the Jets. They had a couple splash plays, but overall, it was just, it's a lot of

underneath stuff. It's four yards and a cloud of dust with this team a little bit. Oh, yeah. Steve, this is one of those situations that are like almost make me want to rant. I mean, Jones

looks so much better than Dylan when they're on the field. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Dylan looks horrible. Jones is forcing tackles at like almost double the rate. Actually, more than, it's not almost. It actually is double the rate is A.J. Dillon. He's generating like 1.5 yards per contact,

yards after contact per carry more than A.J. Dillon. He's a competent player in the receiving game, which they need desperately. While this take looks wrong, looks bad. The process was good. I think you were spot on with this. This should have been, like the Packers need to figure out what they're doing here. because I don't think AJ Dillon is the solution and Aaron Jones might be. I mean, like, AJ Dillon is, he is exactly who he is.

He's a big back who is not going to get you over 10 yards, but he'll give you four yards most of the time. And there is value in that, but I don't think that there's enough value there to have him playing over Aaron Jones as much as he has. right and i don't think there's value in you know splitting their carries almost 50 50 i mean like the the production level is clear and when you watch them run it's very clear too a j dylan is not quick in space he's just he reminds me of like a stephen davis a brandon jacobs not even brandon jacobs brandon jacobs had a little bit more explosiveness than this

but like just the guy where it's like yeah he has a ton of value in that you know if you're looking to if you're looking to kind of run a four minute drill if you're looking to kill clock at the end of the game if you're still rather have Jones in there I and I agree but I like I understand where they're coming from with like some of the usage of AJ Dylan but they've pushed it a little bit beyond and I think that I did want to see that this year like admittedly I wanted to see that from Green Bay's offense. I wanted to see them utilize their pony packages and things like that. But that also was with, you know, the thought process that maybe we'll see more from AJ Dillon. We're six weeks into the season now. We've seen. We've seen it.

73 carries through six weeks. You've seen enough with A.J. Dylan. You know what he is. Yeah. I didn't expect this timeshare to be basically a 50, 50 split with a slight favor to Dylan. I did not expect that. No.

Furthermore, with the issues they have at wide receiver, and like, Tonnian's a solid player, but he is not a difference maker at tight end. With all that, I thought they would be creative with Aaron Jones to get the man in space with the ball. They were more creative with him last year when they had Devante Adams.

I know. It's very frustrating. I don't know. Maybe Hackett had something to do with that. Although he's, most creative guy in the world and Denver. I will, I mean, you know, it is Russell Wilson, but if you want, if you're

talking about who's, which team is probably targeted their running backs the most, Denver's right up there. Sure. But, true. A little bit different scenario because Russell Wilson only knows how to throw the ball deep

or only knows how to check it down. He doesn't know how to do much else in between. Yep. But, yeah, I just like, it was a great, It was a great welcome us into the show type thing for the Jets. I think the Jets defense played very well.

They had Aaron Rogers kind of running around all day. The defensive line got pressure and that secondary is playing really well. But I just, Green Bay needs to figure out what they're doing on offense because they can't just, you see it in games. That's why they're three and three. You see it in games where having Aaron Rogers helps. Like, you can move the ball down the field the way they do with a guy like Aaron Rogers because he is so surgical, procedural.

But you've seen it enough times this year where this offense gets stifled because they don't have any big play opportunity. And defense is already able to play a little bit more aggressively because Aaron Rogers isn't pushing the ball down the field as much. And so, like, I don't know if it's, it'll probably, It probably wouldn't happen until the buy week. Honestly, that's kind of how it operates with a lot of NFL teams. But they're going to have to start to figure some things out on that offense.

And primarily, I think one of those things is figuring out how to get the ball to Aaron Jones more often. Because he's the clear, he's the clear number one difference maker at skill position for that offense. Yes. I agree with you. All right, my last guy for offensive player of the year. Yep. was Mark Andrews. Now, this comes with the caveat of, I said on the first pod we did,

if they didn't give it to them last year, I have a hard time believing they'll ever give it to him. Because his season last year was ridiculous. Yes. But there might not be a pass catcher in the NFL, Steve, whose offense relies on them more. Yeah. Seriously.

It doesn't matter. You can look at any metric we have, any efficiency metric, any volume metric, whatever. Andrews is the top dog. That offense runs through Mark Andrews. Especially when you compare it to other tight ends. That's the freaky thing. Check this stat out.

37% of Baltimore's air yards have gone to Mark Andrews, a tight end. The next closest tie down on the list is Travis Kelsey at 29%. That's a whole 8% difference. And furthermore, there's not another tight end within sight of those two guys. And Andrews is 8% above Hall of Fame tight end, Travis Kelsey. Andrews pass a rating on go routes is 146.5. This is a tight end who he is legitimately a mismatch weapon. He does most damage from the slot.

He does a bunch of damage out wide. But even when you put him in line, he tears it up. And they're doing that a little bit more. well, they were early in the season. They've kind of gone away from it now, but 4.3 yards per route, run in line. Small sample, but the next closest tight end to him is Dallas Goddard at 3.4. So when you compare him to his peers,

there is not a single thing, Andrews Lacksin. He is ridiculous. Yes. That alone. And the fact that he has numbers on par with wide receivers consistently, like not just some other receivers like the best in the league. Like, dude, this guy. had a 1,500-yard season last year.

Yeah. He's insane. I love this guy. And he's an every down tight end. Legitimately. He's a legit three-down tight end. Because any down you're pulling him off the field, you're taking your best weapon off the field. Right. And eliminating the defense, you're giving the defense a playoff, basically. Yeah. And once again, it's just like Baltimore's inability to find, utilize whatever wide receivers. It works out for Mark Andrews because he's just as good as most wide receivers in, you know, in his own right.

And he helps make that offense go, especially in offense whose running game is not working as well over the course of this whole season as it has in prior years. Yeah. And after, you know, like this is, this is a year where a lot, like, I think a lot of it was just, you know, I mean, between people saying, like, look at his production, most of his production came with Huntley, like look at his numbers with Lamar Jackson, who I admittedly was, you know, not all the way with that, but like I leaned that way where I was like, okay, I see there's a little bit of validity in just like the target rate between Lamar Jackson and Huntley.

But our defenses are more aware of Andrews this year than they were, like, than they were last year. But it doesn't matter. He gets open. plays. He has an a dot of, I believe it was like 10 yards. Overall, he just, he looks good. He's, he's a baller. And the Ravens are seven plays away from being six and oh. Yes. And Andrews isn't going to slow down anytime soon. I think that if, I think that last year he didn't get talked about as much because Baltimore was not as good. They lost Lamar

and they, you know, having a backup quarterback kind of, you know, it decimated them in a way. But like this year, if they're at, if they're, you know, if they win the North, the AFC North, and they, you know, get a top seed, I think it's in the conversation, but it also doesn't help the as Lamar Jackson ahead of him who, you know, might get some of that talk over at talking about someone like him. for sure um but it was still a great i still think it was a it was a great call by you yeah and i'm and i even made the call knowing it wouldn't happen i just think it should you know it's more like a me pointing my flag right what about any players that we didn't talk about

that you think should be in the conversation at this point i don't know man i i mean i the first first The first one I think is Sequin Barclay. Yeah. Just because, like, he's producing well, but also there's value in that, like, he has really, it's amazing the difference between that offense last year and that offense this year. And obviously, they have a different play caller this year. But, like, Sequin Barclay had so much to that offense that they didn't have last year.

And I think there's value in just like how much he changes the scope of that offense and how much he opens up that playbook and how much he helps create opportunities for Daniel Jones and the guys around him. I just think that like he's going to have some of the higher usage numbers of a lot of players. And he's he's looked great as a runner. He looks to be kind of back to his explosive, shifty self. And so I think that especially if the Giants keep winning. you have to look at Sequin Barclay, both from a production standpoint and from the standpoint of, like I said, it's just he dictates how that offense goes. Yeah, so my hot take, I mean, I don't mind Barclay because I think voters will like him because he's got raw numbers that are good. Right.

But he just hasn't forced the mistackles at the rate I'd like to see. like he's no Nick Chubb you know right so I also I'm just partial I don't I don't like running backs at all so yes noted running backs don't matter black planter yeah so but no all I mean I think I think there's a chance too as a season goes on I think what he's been able to do by the way is a big testament to the giants um and their offensive line playing way way above of what people thought they would. Both the tackles look great. If I were to throw a running back out, though, I'd go Nick Chubb.

I mean, he is like almost double the amount of force him his tackles than any other running back in the NFL. Yards after contact per carry is ridiculous. I mean, it's explosive play percentage is ridiculous. So, I mean, I just like I said, I don't love running backs. I don't think they are needle movers for most offenses, but outside of a few exceptions, of course. But Chubb would be my candidate to throw in. I'm glad you mentioned Chubb because I think this is a good, I think this is a good talking point about the game last week just to touch on it quick. The Patriots went and beat the crap out of the Browns.

It was 3815. Yeah, basically took Chubb out of the game. Yeah, that's the thing. Nick Chubb, and this started early. And I feel like this had he had 12 carries last week. And I feel like this happens with Stavansky of like there will be weeks where there will be weeks where Nick Chub tauts the ball 20 plus times. And he's on the field more often. He is way more involved in the game plan.

But every once a while, every third or fourth game, I feel like Stifansky has these games where he completely nullifies his best weapon and doesn't use Nick Chub. I understand that, you know, at the final score dictates that, you know, they didn't, they're not going to throw the, or they're not going to run the ball a ton. But I feel like the Cleveland. It was 10.6 at halftime. That's what I mean. And I feel like the Cleveland team, their explosive plays a lot of the time come through the run game. That's like kind of how their offense is built. Like, I just don't understand why Kevin Stefansky does this every once a while.

he does this thing where he he will just like I said, completely nullify his best weapon by giving Nick Chub only 12 carries. Like Nick Chubb is a Nick Chubb's a 20 touches a game minimum guy. Yeah, I will say this. Once they got that, once they got down,

you just can't expect them to run the ball anymore. But it was 10-6 and halftime and Nick Chub had what, two carries in the third quarter or something like that? Right. Or maybe he had a little bit more. No, three, three carries in the third quarter, I just looked. I mean, okay.

And he had 12 carries overall. So, I mean, even if everything else came before that, that's still only puts them at nine carries in the first half. And that's still like, still a little running up. Yeah. Like, you're like, especially with Jacoby Reset, this offense is kind of built through moving the ball down the field with their running game, playing short passes.

And then every once a while, Jacoby Resett will drop back and hit a deep ball on a play action pass. That's kind of how their offense is running right now. But everyone's wild, and it's happened in some of their losses where, like, they'll, a switch will flip and they just kind of abandon the run game. And they start to, or they start to give, you know, way more carries to Kareem Hunt. And Kareem Hunt is good. Don't get me wrong.

But he doesn't offer as much running the ball as Nick Chubb does. Right. And so it's interesting to watch because Cleveland has a tough schedule coming up. They do. And so it'll be interesting to see. Yeah, they're just trying to tread water until they get Watson back, right? I just think it's going to be too late probably. I mean, I think so too.

Like, again, like I said, looking at their schedule going forward leading up to getting Watson back, that I don't think. I don't know if they can hang in. it's a it's a tough stretch yep all right last guy on offense and then we got to start moving yeah um Tyrie kill okay yeah he leads leads the NFL in receiving yards he's second reception so like the raw stats check out all these efficiency metrics we have yards per outrun he's number one blah blah blah you know he's phenomenal everyone can see that put on the tape he looks great yeah completely It completely changed the Miami offense.

Here's a stat, though, that I think is freaking insane. When the Dolphins C man coverage, Tyree kills target rate is 48.5%. It's literally like, it's like automatic. They're just like, well, well, it's man. Tyree's getting the ball. It's just automatic. I love that. That's obviously leads the league by a decent margin there.

Yeah. especially for anyone with a decent amount of play. There's obviously some weird outliers that are high on the list. They've got like five targets against man on, you know, 10 snap or something. But Terry Kill 48.5% target rate against man coverage. That is silly. I mean, he's on pace to break the receiving record now. He's over 700 through six weeks.

Yeah. So what is that? Nah, I don't think he's Is he on pace? We're good at math. Yeah, that's, I mean, I mean, I know. He'll fall just short.

Didn't cup break it last year or no? Did he break it? I don't know. Well, if he didn't, it's like high 1900s. Right, right. So he's on pace for 1983 right now, I think. Be close. Yeah, either way.

he's having a great year and he's he's just he's just a baller yeah it's just good he plays well he's just such a mismatch in the in the past game he does everything he does everything lines up anywhere doesn't matter he will destroy whoever you put on him all right let's do the rookies the offensive rookies throw out your three i'll throw out my three and then we'll talk about a couple of them. I had in the order of Drake London, Brees Hall, and then jokingly Trelaen Berks, but really I have thrown Wondale Robinson into the mix as a dark horse for my third. Okay. Did you put out Tray London just to trigger me? Yes. Okay. All right. Cool. Drake London, we agree on. We don't really even need to say much about him. He looks the part. He's the only receiver,

a guy who's classified as a receiver on their roster that they have. I mean, apparently they don't like Kyle Pitts anymore, so I don't know. But really cool stat I got on London that I think is indicative of how much they already trust him is he leads the NFL in threat rate against zone coverage to mark a 41.9%,

which is really, really, really freaking high. It's the highest mark against zone. So no other players getting targeted more when they see zone coverage than Drake London. That's impressive for a rookie. Yeah. That is impressive for a rookie. Any way you slice it.

So I'm big on him. You know, what's frustrating about, and they're winning games, so, you know, Arthur Smith is going to continue to push back on your fantasy, get Kyle Pitts involved, because they are winning games with a roster. That's not as good as other teams that are kind of in the record that they are. But Drake London has an 80% route share.

But he's only run 134 routes. Josh Palmer, Josh Palmer, Zach Ertz, Curtis Samuel, A.J. Brown are all right in within a percent of Drake London. Yeah. Drake London, the next closest to him is, the next closest to him of that group is like AJ Brown, who has 179 routes. Drake London only is 134. So it just, it's frustrating and everybody has voiced their frustration with Pitts, but it's also frustrating with London that he just doesn't get a lot of opportunities

because of the way this offense runs. Dude, it's embarrassing. Like, the NFL just gave Marcus Mariotta the FedEx Air Player of the week for NFC. No, no. Are they really? Steve, he threw 14 passes. Yeah. Give me a freaking break.

Are you kidding me? Yeah, I mean, he had more touchdowns than incompletions. I think he's... I don't care. He threw the ball 14 times. It's not even a real sample. It's like a high school winged. quarterback.

Like, come on. Are we really doing that? Yeah. There wasn't one better NFC performance in that. But yeah, like, that's the frustrating part is that, you know, you do have a guy who's winning, who's winning, who's separating, who's garnering a 32.6% target share, which is up there with Justin Jefferson, AJ Brown, Cooper Cup. like that is up there in that range but the problem is that he's getting you know close to

you know he's getting about two thirds the workload that and or even close to half in some situations the workload that a lot of other guys are getting right and because of that he's going to be out of the yes yes that was the lot

way of saying that like I think he should and he would win this award but because of the way this offense goes, he won't. Agreed. All right. You had Berks were thrown out. Robinson's not really a candidate.

Nope. Breece Hall, though. Breast Hall is probably going to be the winner. Well, it's going to come down to three running backs, I think. Yeah. Well, three running backs and one wide receiver. The receiver would be Olave. Yep.

I've got some cool Olave stats for you, too, when we get there. But the three running backs are Breese, Kenneth Walker, and Damien Pierce. All three of those guys. guys are just balling out those the other two uh pierce and breese are getting a jump start on on walker obviously but walker could quickly pile up some ridiculous stats because he's not in a time share you know not for now at least how long is penny out he's out for the season oh he's out for the season okay yeah he's got all aboard he had very significant injury um so breese has Michael Carter and then Pierce

I mean he doesn't necessarily have competition he does have Burkhead but he plays for the Houston Texans so I think it would be fascinating to see but give me your whole take because I didn't have in my list despite you know maybe I should have

I acknowledged that but yeah give me your whole take I it was I mean it was worrying at the beginning of the season you see it was like Michael Carter was a starter things like that like that scared me at first, but one, again, I think the day, honestly, I think the Packers should go and look at what the Jets do with Michael Carter and Breece Hall, and they should try and emulate

that a little bit more, because they're close. Like, the Jets do do similar usage in the sense that they bring out a like, they'll bring out a pony package a decent amount during their, during the game. They'll get Carter and Breece Hall on the field. But, and it was. cool last week they did it quite a bit uh they are trying to manufacture touches for breese hall in different situations they know he's good in the past game and they know he's good as a runner like they gave him two two different like it was almost like it was almost a counter wide receiver a counter wide receiver trick run where they go you know they have the flow of the offense faking the hand off to michael carter going one way and then they have brice hall you know

come across the line take the hand off go the other way they did that twice. So like, and on one of them, that's one of them is where he scored his touchdown. It was inverted though, too, right? Like wasn't the blocking for Breeshall? Yeah. Or was it for Carter? Okay. Yeah. I think, I think it was for Brees Hall. I'd have to go back and watch the rep again. But like, it's just, the Jets know how good he is and they're trying to manufacture touches for him. And he's doing, he's, he's making do with those touches. He has a 9.2% explosive play on run plays. He's averaging over five yards of carry. the receiving game, you know, he plays out of the backfield most of the, most of the time,

like 69% of his routes come out of the backfield. But even for a running back, he still sees 32 targets. He went, his route share is only 39%. His target share is 14.5%. But he still makes due in the passing game when they get him the ball. He is, he averages over eight yards after the catch per reception. And so he's a guy that like, he's just a guy you want to get the ball on his hands because he can make he can make plays and i think that especially with the fact that the jets are playing really well and are you know they're surprising a lot of teams and the more the more that they stay in the spotlight or stay in the spotlight or at least stay relevant like the more eyes get on breese hall and the more i think he pushes to win this award

for sure and this coaching staff as you've mentioned has done a good job the first frustrating part is it's the same coaching tree that's in green bay steve it's it's mat lefler's brother calling the plays in new york i know i don't know how this happens i mean it's just proof that just because you come from a certain lineage doesn't mean you're smart like a lot of times the lineage you know propels guys it shouldn't and other times guys that you know maybe like mike leffler are smarter than they come across because they've been down the depth chart so to speak for a long time. Right.

But man, how many play callers have come out of that lineage, the Shanahan lineage, that have been better than Matt LaFleur, a lot? Yeah. I mean, you have Mike McDaniel and Miami, and now his little brother in New York. I mean, shoot, that's two right there. I agree. Breeze Hall looks phenomenal. Here's the thing that's been most impressive to me, Steve.

He tested like a great athlete. We knew he was a good athlete, but a lot of times, happens is running the athleticism gap in the NFL is not what it is in college. Correct. And so a lot of times these guys that look ridiculously fast and athletic at the running back position in college, they get to the NFL. And they just, it's not that they look slow or bad. They just, it's not the same difference.

Yes. Breeze Hall is running away from people the same way he did in college. When he gets in the open field, it's scary. He can hit a home run at any given point in time. I see a little DeAndre Swift to his game too, actually. He's a little bigger than Swift, but his ability to jump cut and hit the gas, very reminiscent of DeAndre Swift. He might have better top end speed than Swift, too, actually. But that jump cut they do into full acceleration is not teachable.

No. That's God-given ability. That is freaky. And I was probably too low on Bruce coming out. I love what the Jets are doing with him. just to compare apples to apples Michael Carter is averaging like 1.4 less yards per carry on similar touch volume than Breece Hall.

And it helps again. It's like it's funny because it's literally just kind of clicked with me right now that this jets often often and it makes sense because you know the LaFleurs are you know, their brothers. They probably they may think a little bit similarly because they both come from the same tree, but just like it's funny watching both offenses because they do mirror each other in some ways.

But I think we're seeing with New York how much value prioritizing that the receiver position is. Because that's the difference between these two teams is the tailnet receiver. Well, that's true. A lot of resources spent in New York on receiver. Could you imagine? and drop, like, could you imagine dropping Aaron Rogers into this offense with those receivers instead of the receivers he has? Ooh, that kind of gives me goosebumps.

Like, it, like, true, the Jets O line might be better than the Packers O line right now. I mean, the Packers O' line, their interior offensive line got beat up this week. Their tackle, they've been, like, I've never seen an offensive tackle be on a pitch count before. Yeah. But they got Bactari on a pitch count, and, like, he comes out of a game when, like, to kind of reduces snaps and it's kind of freaky but the guy he's been replacing him has been getting torched. Yeah. So, but I do want you because he burst onto the scene this week.

He had been getting, you know, touches here and there throughout the beginning of the season, but really burst out of the scene this week. What did you think of Kenneth Walker? Because his vision is, just from that game, his vision beyond the first cut and his vision out like just operating operating like within the box is so good it's some of the best i've seen really ever or at least in a while but man like how good of how how good is kenneth walker i mean he's he's special man he's special like he vision is one thing he has i mean to go with a litany of other but i think his vision is what kind of what elevates him to another level

And I think the perfect play was, I can't remember the exact time in the game, but they were moving toward Arizona's end zone. And Kenneth Walker took a hand off, bounced it to the outside. And there was a receiver blocking a corner. And the safety came and filled the gap or came up to start to fill the gap in between the box and the receiver with space outside of the receiver. Because I think it was condensed split. And I think that 29 to 30 of 32 running backs would have split that gap, hit toward the safety, taking a hit, tried to make a move, but ultimately probably would have gotten tackled. I think it was Buda Baker that was filling the hole.

So, like, probably would have made the tackle, but it would have been a great gain. It was like a nine-yard gain. Instead, Kenneth Walker sees that, plants his foot on the ground, kicks it outside, and goes and scores. goes and scores, I think he scored a touchdown on that play. Yeah. Like that was, that was a perfect example of like, this guy is different in a way that a lot of, that a lot of running backs aren't.

Yep. I agree. He, so vision, tremendous. His burst, he, tremendous. Top end speed, tremendous. My favorite part about him, though, is he runs angry. Yeah. He has the same amount of force mistackles as Bruce Hall does on like 35 less carries, actually, which is crazy. Yeah, he's in our system, we've got him for the third most mistackles force per attempt.

Yeesh. And he's tied with Nick Chubb, actually, and I've already talked about Nick Chubb. Yeah. So, yeah, if you set the threshold for 40 carries minimum, he's tied for first with Nick Chubb. So that's pretty, that's insane. I know Hall and Pierce got head starts on him, but with the way Seattle likes to play and the Pete Carroll way, the offense, I think you can see Walker rack up several 150-yard games down the stretch here. And that could get him right in the mix for, you know, offensive rookie of the year, especially because, to be fair, there's not going to really be a quarterback in the mix. picket's pretty trash he's hurt you know none of the other ones are playing and except for

bailey zap and he's played good but he's you know bank jones's back so there's one other guy though steve i want to talk about real quick just to show you like kenneth walker he's legit he is on 54 and a half percent of his carries he's contacted at or before the line of scrimmage and he still averages five and a half yards per carry how does that stack up for the rest of So, oh, that's got to be terrible. It's top three amongst running backs. Just to give you an idea, he has Damian Pierce, KM Akers, David Montgomery, Najee Harris, Derek Henry are the five guys around him. Wow, all bad offensive lines.

Damien Pierce is averaging, he's up there at 4.8 yards per carry. And he's leading the NFL's 58% of his carries. He's contacted at it before the line of scrimmage. Everyone else around him is averaging less than 4.4.5.5. four yards less than or just four yards of carry so like my god well yeah acres is what like three yards of carry david montgomery's four naugherst is three point two derrick henry's three point nine wow and kenneth wow yeah and everybody else around him has less than a five percent explosive play rate kenneth walker's up at 11.4 percent so not only is he not only is he looking

good he's looking good in kind of a bad situation as far as like operating opportunity for big plays. Yeah, that's incredible, man. I just thought those were good numbers. But, heck yeah. Hit us with your last guy. Yeah, it's Olave. We've talked about them on the pod before.

I have two really cool stats on Olaave and then one hilarious stat on Olave. All right. I have a feeling I might be, I might know what the hilarious stat is. Okay. So 2.5 yards per outrun. He ranks eighth among all players in the NFL with at least 20 targets. He's a rookie.

Yeah. And he's doing that. That's insane. His ADOT, Steve, is 17.7. I thought that was going to be the hilarious. I mean, that is actually hilarious, especially because he's a rookie. So what he's done is he's basically gone from a college football player to stepping into an NFL offense and being one of the best deep threats in the NFL from day one. That's hard to do, and he's doing it well.

Um, he's on pace right now for 1,300 yards in, what, like seven, eight touchdowns. Like, if he puts that up, there's no way he's not winning this award. Yeah. FYI. Um, here's a hilarious stat. He, he's already forced two missed tackles after the catch. He's only, he only forced one all of his senior year at Ohio State. All right.

Making moves. Making moves. man literally literally making moves but yeah like the a dot thing is incredible because he is he's leading the NFL by a margin the next closest person to him is George Pickens at 15.1 he is 2.3 yards on the next closest guy I we can actually even throw Pickens in here because I had him on my list I had London pickings and Olaave were my three. But like with that, like with the next four guys closest to Olave in A dot, all those guys are seeing like the next four Pickens, Hollins, Corey Davis, Nico Collins, those guys are seeing target shares under 20%. Chris Olave has a 17.4 A dot and he's seeing 25% target share.

That's beautiful. It's wild, but it's also like, one, a quarterback, a quarterback's understanding a player's strengths and an offensive coordinator understanding a player's stuff. Yeah, I love when coaches get it right like this. Hey, Olave's not the guy that we want, you know, running drags and running Cooper, Cooper, Cooper, Justin Jefferson, route trees. Screen slants.

Yeah, we want this guy getting down the field. We want him pushing the ball down the field and just going, giving. giving him chances. And I mean, that's what he's doing. He's making, he's making do with those chances as well. Vertical stems. That's all I want out of 11. Yeah.

He's good release package, good route running, threaten the corner with your vertical stems, hit the brakes for the comeback or bust it into a deep out. Make them respect it. Take what they give you and then hit it over the top. And that's what the coaching staff is doing. And it looks beautiful. It looks beautiful. So plus he plays with a quarterback. that just says to hell with it and he just chucks it deep.

So I love that. Well, he's currently not playing because he's hurt. Unfortunately. Yeah. All right. Pickins real quick. Not going to be a guy who comes close to winning this award. He's been, I know quarterback situation isn't ideal,

but he hasn't done even much with what he's been given. Well, unfortunately, I just, I mean, Pittsburgh, while they are also really good at developing wide receivers, the last couple years, just the way. way that Matt Canada completely limits a lot of these guys route trees. Yeah. It just limits the offense is just so bad. Well, it makes it predictable, too, which is annoying.

It's just all outside the numbers throws. Like, I mean, those outside receivers are hardly ever breaking in, it feels like. It's a lot, like you said, a lot of vertical step, which is fine. If you have a guy like a, you know, James Winston, people like that, but you just don't have the quarterbacks with the arm strength. or just the other plays that can go into making what they do all the time effective. Yep. But Pickens is jumping out of the scene, and he does look good.

I mean, he's, every week, there's a highlight of him flattening a quarterback, which is always fun to watch. But he also makes, I mean, he makes the same catches. And, you know, he's, yeah, yeah. All right, let's quickly. And I mean quickly, because I don't even want to talk about it, Steve. John, comeback player of the year. I whiffed on this so hard that it's embarrassing.

So did I. Baker Mayfield Christian McCaffrey and Julio Jones. So Baker, I'm not even going to touch it. He's hurt. He was horrible when he played. Great. Julio Jones hasn't even played, barely. Christian McCaffer is the only glimmer of hope here, but like, I know he's been good for your fantasy team, but he has not looked like the same dude necessarily.

Even just the crazy efficiency we're used to from him, we just haven't seen. I don't even know if that's his fault, though. This offense, that offense is not an NFL offense. Like, it's just not an NFL offense. It's a joke. It's sad to watch. Like, they're playing a different level of a sport. everybody else.

So unfortunately, even if Christian, even if Christian McAfrey is back at 100%, which I think he is, he doesn't get the opportunities that he had in previous years because this offense is just in shambles. And unfortunately, the only way for him to reenter this conversation probably is if he does end up getting traded. True. Yep.

Yeah. Did you have anybody besides? I had James Winston, Christian McCaffrey, and Alan Robinson. Yuck. Yeah. This is a hard award to predict, I think, is what we found out. Yeah, like, apparently. I mean, it's probably, it's probably Sequin, right?

Sequon is, oh, far, and we've already talked about him at length. Far and away, the winner here. Yeah. But even just, like, just chronicling other candidates, we could have thrown out there, like Cam Acres, Travis Etienne, who, he's kind of upticking, but no. Derek Henry. I mean, we would have whiffed on all those guys. So, Sequin is definitely the character.

You know what? If I go back and listen to that pod, I think you actually may have mentioned him. He wasn't on your list, but I think you did say, you know, Sequin could be in this conversation. I was just worried about the offense because I thought that I'd struggle to move the ball.

And they do at times, but Daibol is. really, Dave will really shown his chops this year to like, get that offense to move the ball no matter what.

I mean, Sequin took like four or five snaps from the wildcat this week. Yeah, yeah. He's been, the last couple weeks

he's been doing that. Yeah. But, all right, let's get to the fun award, the MVP award. MVP. I think,

I'm actually happy with my selections here. I think I did well. One of them is a no-go, but the other two. My front runner, I think is the actual frontrunner and my dark horse is the actual dark horse.

So I don't know what you had, but I had Allen as MVP. I had Herbert as my number two. And I can justify why he's not doing well. And we'll get to that in a minute. And then I have Hertz. Hertz is my dark horse. Oh, that's right. You did have the Hertz.

That's a great call. I had the first same two. I had Josh Allen, Justin Herbert. And then I had my dark horse is Derek Carr, which, who, not working out. not working out but the last two games from them we have seen a glimmer it's gotten better it's a glimmer yeah i think he's starting to move off of the throw the ball to devante adams at all cost game playing a little bit and it helps that their run game is opening up more this year than it had in previous year at least it has the last couple weeks it started to move better

but yeah yeah no i don't think he's a dark course candidate unless like they went on an absolute tear, but I don't see that happening, unfortunately. Right. So Josh, we both agreed on that. He is definitely the MVP at this point in the season. Without a doubt. And that was a, I mean, it was a great matchup on Sunday. And it kind of, it delivered in most senses.

Shout out to Tony Romo for predicting the score exactly. Like, during the, like, I think it was the first drive, first or second drive of the game. How are you going to shout out him, but not me? I bet, Steve, I bet. Try to get him on the pod. I'll try to get him. I don't want to take a victory lap.

That's not true. I love taking victory laps. But I bet an alternative spread in that game, 44 and a half points. I bet the under. Nice. There was 44 points scored. Boom.

Now, listen, I was sweating bullets. to that game. But when Mahomes threw that pick, I audibly yelled in my house. Yeah. Benning makes games so fun, dude. It's like, I don't know. Yeah, it just adds a layer of, especially for guys who like us and I think a lot of our listeners, people who like guys, girls, people who care about football, like throw

betting into it and like, man, it takes what is already. an exhilarating experience. Like, I'm a guy who I don't even need to bet on a game. I can get myself into a game because I can, like at the beginning of the game, I can say, I want this team and I can plan my back for the rest of the game, and off we go. I'm the same exact way, but betting just elevates it to another level where like now it's like fist, clenching, teeth grinding, but like also so, like so much fun, so much excitement. It's awesome. But, Oh, sorry, go ahead. Well, I was just saying, like, you know,

Buffalo, Kansas City is an easy game to get riled up for. Oh, yeah. But some of these primetime games, Steve, I've had to indulge in some propites because I can't tolerate them otherwise. So they kind of get me bought back in, you know. Yeah. Yeah, anyways.

Back to the talking point of Josh Allen. This game could have gone a different way. I think Isaiah McKenzie. I don't know if he was like, personally paid by the chiefs to try to sabotage this game. But like if you take out what, if you take out any like target or anything that was geared around Isaiah

McKenzie, like I think Buffalo could like wins this game by 10 to 10 to 14 points. Yes. Like Josh Allen is just playing. on another level this year. He looks so good. He looks so calm in the pocket. When he escapes the pocket, he makes, it's a very firm decision, which I like. I don't think he questions his decision when he gets out of the pocket. He either knows what he has on the field and he's going to throw it, or he knows right away whether he's going to run it based on what he has in front of him. But it's just sound decision-making. And this offense, when it does get stopped,

It is because they shoot themselves in the foot. It is not often that this offense has stopped on the acts of the defense. It's oftentimes that they shoot themselves in the foot, and they help the defense out rather than really the defense standing their own and making a play. Yeah, Josh's, his evolution has been fascinating. It's even like taking another level this year. I'm ready for Khalil's Shakir season, though. Please. I mean, honestly, I'm stunned that McKenzie got as many snaps as he did, especially after what Shakir did when McKenzie was out the week prior.

He didn't light the world on fire, but I thought that he immediately popped off the screen in the sense of like, I noticed right away within the first couple plays, like, the explosiveness and the value that he adds just over McKenzie. Yeah. Well, dude, Josh loves throwing the ball down field. I mean, that offense is predicated on their deep attack. You already have Davis. You already have digs. Shakir gives you that slot element. Did I say it? I may have said it last week on the pot, but he kind of brings some Ty Hilton to the offense. Yes. Yes, you did. Vertical route tree from the slot now, not the same juices TY necessarily in his prime, but he's close. He's up there. Dude has juice. Yeah. I mean, that's all he did at Boise State was just make plays downfield, just ridiculous stuff. And adding a third deep target at receiver in this offense is just, that's deadly, man. And sure, he's not going to be able to do all of the short area stuff that McKenzie gives you. But McKenzie's not even dynamic enough to warrant, you know, forcing him into that role.

So, and then, you know, the game he had on Sunday just, I think it's time to start. scaling McKenzie's workload back and working the rookie Shakir into the offense. Yeah. And that's just going to make Josh's numbers even better at the end of the season, by the way. Exactly. They already look really good because, I mean, he's third in the NFL and adjusted completion percentage at 80.9%. He's accounting for like, I don't know the exact percentage right now, but he's

accounting for an insane amount of the Buffalo Bill's offense. He, I mean, he's far in a way leading, like, in passing yardage. He's up there for the lead in passing touchdowns. He looks dynamic as a run. He's so much fun to watch as a runner. Like, just, I mean, it's, it's his award to lose right now. And it will be going forward every single week until, and I don't even know what changes to like unless he falls off a cliff and they start getting stifled at times but he's like he just

that offense is so explosive because they have so many weapons like it's they can they can move the ball down the field with stephan digs working the intermediate it feels like every single game that gave davis plays in there's an explosive play and it i mean it just helps that josh aelin is money with his with his arm yeah there's hard to defend with him because you have the situation where, you know, you can force him to work the underneath stuff, work the run game, and they can go on a 15 play drive and still score because you're not stopping him in the red zone. Or if you're going to be a little more aggressive, play a little more man or even, you know, match zone coverage or blitz him, he's going to

hit you over the top every time. So it's really a pick your poison situation. The fascinating thing for me and we've we've chronicled it in detail but like his development from inaccurate pastor to accurate pastor has been crazy even this year he's among quarterbacks that have thrown at least 125 passes he's like sixth and off target percentage like in a good way yeah the good side of six right i think the only guys ahead of him are like tom brady jalen hurts kiler which all those guys were known as accurate throwers kirk cousins two up So, I mean, fantastic stuff. Huge big-time play or wild throw percentage.

So his wild throw percentage is 6.7%. 6.7%. What is that? Like third in the league? Yeah, third behind just Lamar and Winston. Yeah, just tremendous stuff from him, man. He's the front runner. The other guy I love on this was Jalen Hertz.

Yes. So I have him as a dark horse. He is the true dark horse. Like right now it's Allen's award and Hertz is probably, you know, Mahomes is in there too, of course. But Hertz is definitely established himself as, hey, there's actually a shot. This guy wins this thing. Yeah. Hertz is lingering around waiting for nipping at the heels, waiting for Josh Allen to slip up

because they're similar in the sense that they're, you know, they're just consistent. they're both consistent there isn't a ton of at least not anymore with josh aylan but there's not a ton of variance in the sense of like really like really chaotic terrible throws really great throws everything's pretty tight pretty efficient i mean they both and it's both to the benefit and as well to like their play callers credit and to like their gms for building the offenses the way they are because if you look at both of the offenses they're just they're they're similar in that like they have great, they surrounded their quarterback with great weapons who can win at different levels of the field. Yep, against different looks. It just helps those quarterbacks so much when you have guys on the outside and in the slot that can separate and can win and can go get the ball. Like that's, like, as much credit that goes to Josh Allen and Jalen Hurts, like just as much credit goes to like how these teams. have built out this offense to make sure that these guys can be successful. Yep.

And I mean, let's talk about the Hertz Cowboys game because this was really Philly's biggest test as a, you know, an offense going against a good defense. And they passed the test with flying colors, in my opinion. And if you remember on Friday, I said the key to that game for them was to do what they did against Detroit

and put their best players in conflict all game. And that's what they did. RPO, read option run, give Hertz, you know, these really simple reads to put Parsons in conflict. And they did. They really excelled at getting Parsons, you know, slowing that pass rush down when they needed to and getting, you know, their players in space. Now, Philly has this weird tendency, Steve. I don't know if you've noticed this, but they get a lead in a game and they just take the foot off the gas. That was going to me.

My talking point was I was going to mention. my one concern with this offense is got to stop doing that man is they they will they will shift it into idle and they'll sit there i mean to their credit and all in like you know inside in their games where teams start to show a little bit of life like when the two when another team like starts to come from behind starts to gain a little bit of ground philly is good at answering that when they need to. They did it in the fourth quarter of this game. They did against the Vikings as well.

They did it against the Vikings. They did it against the lions. They've shown resolve in that aspect and that, you know, it's, yes, it is an issue that the other offense shifts it into idle. They start going three and out. The other offense starts getting going a little bit, getting into a groove.

But yeah, that's, that is the one concern I have. But like I said, they answer when it comes time. Like when the team gets too close, they've answered every time to, like, kick the lead into, you know, where they're not, they're not really in as much trouble and they kind of secure the game. But really, I mean, not to go off of Jalen Hurts too much, but if I'm a Cowboys fan, I feel great about this game.

Oh, yeah. Like. Because you can make the argument with Dak. because in the game, they win. Oh, I mean, to lose by, to lose 2617 when your quarterback threw three interceptions and you, you had a whole, like, basically an entire half of football where your offense couldn't move the ball and you still finish 2617, like, if I, like, if I'm that, if I'm a Cowboys fan, like, I come away from this game feeling great.

Like it's rare that you see a game where both fan bases probably come away happy. But like I feel like that's kind of the situation here is both the Eagles and Cowboys fans have to kind of come away from this game and be happy with what happened. Just with like different viewpoints of where the deficiency was. For sure. Eagles come away. Six and O. they, you know, beat a division rival, you know, giving them a firm hold on that division. That's the, that's obviously what they're happy about.

They held that defense in check. The Cowboys, though, they're four and two, Steve. They're getting Dak back. You know, I'm not sure they'll push for the division necessarily, but, man, they're definitely going to be a wild card contender. And you add Dak to this team with a. incredible defense and I would say decent playmakers on offense. They could turn into a very, very formidable team.

Very dangerous team. It's nice when you have a defense like that, you're never out of a game. Right. Rarely are you ever finding yourself out of a game because that defense is to keep you right at it. I mean, shoot. They, that only, like, they make game changing plays. They get, they get pressure. They get sacks.

But they also, like, they just have a knack of getting turnover. that's what's crazy about this defense is like I mean I've said it a couple times but the biggest thing they were like near the top in a lot of defensive metrics but what pushed them over the top last year was their turnover luck but they're still you know not as much it's evened out a little bit but they still are very good at creating turnovers and creating plays and putting offenses in conflict and just like giving in giving their offense short fields good opportunities things like that and like the offense is going to be is way more explosive with Dak Prescott at the helm and I just think that like you said like we said if you're a Cowboys fan you come away from

this looking at it like hey our defense held up they were put in a lot of bad situations because our quarterback threw for three interceptions but we still came back and scored three touchdowns against them. We kind of figure things out on offense. And once we get, once we get our true number one quarterback back, we can compete with them. Yep. I have a pet peeve, though, or an axa grind again with one Daniel Quinn. Yes. I noticed it this week. I 100% noticed it this week, more so than I had in prior weeks. But go ahead. Yeah, he's back to playing Michael Parsons in the box. I went and counted snaps, Steve.

26 snaps off the ball linebacker. Out of how many total? 65-ish, no, 70, 69. 69 snaps. So, I mean. Over a little over a third. Yeah, too much is what that is. That's too much.

That is 26 times. you wasted your best player's ability. Yeah, I just don't, I don't get it. I don't get it. You look at like what the Broncos have done with Brayn and Browning. Similar profile to Parsons coming out, same draft class, actually. Browning, big, freaky athletic linebacker didn't have great instincts in college. And instead of half committing to putting them on the edge, the Broncos just said,

you're an edge defender now. You put a little meat on him. And that dude is producing at a level similar to Parsons. Like their pass rush runway. Actually, I charted, because I thought we were going to talk defensive player of the year. So I actually charted Bosa, Parsons, and Brownings, pass rush reps, just for this competition, Steve.

And Browning's pass rush win rate is actually higher than Parsons is. But my point being is, look at the impact. the Browning's having on the Broncos defense, Parsons is doing that on the Cowboys, but they're wasting it 25 times a game. I don't get it. Just put them out there on the edge every single snap. And I think it's just sometimes it's just coordinators galaxy braining themselves. And like I just thinking like, oh, we'll throw the offense here. We'll throw Parsons at off the ball and we'll let them play a little bit sideline to sideline. but like again there's more value in pass rush than there is an off the ball linebacker

because like think about it outside of a outside of a turnover play outside of a force fumble or an interception and without a blitz what is like what's the ceiling play for an off the ball linebacker a tackle for three or four yard game exactly so like i mean you're not expect like 33% of the snaps. You're certainly not expecting him to create a turnover worthy play every time, every time he's in, he's in that position. So like why take away the value of like the ceiling play for him at law,

off the ball linebacker on a down to down basis is like you said, a three yard tackle. Maybe he fills the gap and he gets a tackle at the line of scrimmage. But at the edge, it's a sack. It's a tackle behind the line of scrimmage. It's disrupting blocking. There's just so many more high value game affecting plays that he can make on the edge compared to playing off the ball.

For sure. I know why Quinn did it this week too. I think in his mind he's thinking we're going to see a ton of RPO's. So Parsons isn't going to have a lot of time to get home anyways. So I trust him to be in conflict more than I trust the other guy. But I still, man, I still have a hard time with that. like just because not every dropback's going to be an RPO right so like even the 10 clean drawbacks you get that's 10 opportunities for him to literally change the game so but it's also i mean

why i still don't understand like i get that but i also don't get it because i get it from like from where quince coming from i also don't get it because why i don't know i feel like there's value in like having Parsons be a person who's at the read point. Yeah. Having a crazy, athletic, freaky guy. Instinctual. Who he's the type of guy that can do an Aaron Donald type play and, you know, muck up the mesh point and things like that.

Like, why is that not the guy that you want the offense to force to make a decision? Because guess what? He can influence where he is fast enough, where he can feign inside and kick back out toward the quarterback. He can feign going toward the quarterback and kick back in and make a tackle for the loss. Like, I, like, if anything, he over, I feel like he overthought it, or it's like, I want to put him in conflict. It's like, no, just put him right at the center of it. He's your best player and he's a freak. Just let him, just let him do what he does and that's just go out and play. Yep, I agree. I agree. Well, let's bring this conversation full circle. So we started with

Hertz MVP discussion. This game ended up being exciting. I know the Eagles were up 20 to zero at one point. So for this game to get as close as it did, it was super exciting and it lived up to the hype, I would say. With that, Hertz is definitely an MVP candidate. We need to see them get back to throwing the ball down field a little bit more and giving him an opportunity to make those crazy throws. Because they kind of come off that a little bit. Part of it is these big leads, right? They're like, they're up 20, zero. They're up one game, what, 24-0? It's like, and they're just coasting at that point. So they're not doing a lot. But I need to see them get back to that for it hurts to stay in the mix

because I think that's going to be what it takes. Yes. They need a challenge, though. That's the thing. They need a challenge. It's not coming. It's like, it's just not coming this year. I mean, they have the Packers in, they have the Packers week 12,

and then they have Giants twice after week 14, and then they have the Cowboys in there. Other than that... Stingers are in there too. Yeah. Other than that, like, this is, man, the Eagles, it's hard to find a game that you're comfortable saying that they're really, like, challenged.

Yeah. So. So they have a bi-week this week. Hopefully they do some self-reflection and some self-scouting and come back with a better game playing to keep Hertz playing at the level he's playing at. Yeah. All right.

I think we handled our business pretty well today. We're under two hours right now. It worked out perfect. I feel like we. Should we end this pod by justifying our having Herbert on the list, but him not performing well? Yeah, because it's, it feels like deja vu. It legitimately feels like deja vu watching Justin.

Oh, I already know what you're going to say. 2015 Detroit Lions. We've seen Joe Lombardi do this before. This is number one on my list of why this is happening. He's seen him do this before. Joe Lombardi has done this to an offense before. And it's incredible that we're letting him do it again to a guy who has more upside than Stafford had. He's got better mobility.

And whose offense probably, I would say has more upside than that lion's offense did if Keenan Allen gets back. I think that's a big caveat. Yeah, but. That's problem number two for me. But just like, I mean, how many times can a team run spacing? Well, according to Joe Lombardi, 70. Hundreds, it's all of them. It's every pass play.

How do you have a mutant, like a mutant at quarterback? A top three athletic, top three to four, like complete quarterback in the NFL. How are you forcing him to just. check it down, like check it down and throw these short routes all the time. His yards per attempt in this last game was 4.2. And, and there is, there, there is something to be said. I think that a little bit of it is on Herbert because there were times, and I don't know if it was just this game,

and I'm like, I'm going to be paying attention to this going forward. But there were times where Herbert would drop back and he would, even before the check even before eckler would you know release into into his checkdown role you know because they'd usually have him like chip and then release into like you know an arrow or a swing route but then there were times towards the end of the game where Justin Herbert would drop back and he would immediately look to the checkdown before before Echler had even released into a route or before Michelle had even released into a route so there is something to be said that like that's on Justin Herbert a little bit. But he's just, it's a coaching point. They're like, hey, when you see

this, just check it down. But I mean, where's the vertical push? Where's the targets to Mike Williams, who's one of the best contested catch receivers in the NFL? And is, yeah, one of the best downfield. And we saw it. Like, you saw it. He, it was close. I mean, there were a lot of people throwing screenshots out, but he almost made that insane back shoulder catch down the field towards the end. I think out of bounds. Yeah, towards the end of the game. Like, it's plays like that. It's like you see that.

And I mean, my initial reaction was, and that's why you throw the ball to Mike Williams more than like three times. Right. Where was that all game? You can take that shot like every drive. Yeah. And you should, I think. And it's just like you have guys like Gerald Everett who I think has a ton of utility in this offense, but not in the way that this offense has run right now because it's so congested.

Gerald Everett is the guy that you want to, he's the type of guy you want to get in space, leak underneath, run drag routes, run some short yardage stuff like they have him doing, but you also want it packaged with vertical stuff to kind of clear out. So you give yourself an option. You put the defense in conflict because they have to think about like, okay, Gerald Everett's underneath, he can make a play, but I also need to focus on Mike Williams going deep. like why are we not doing bro it's like watching early 2000s NBA unless you have shack in the middle of the paint you're you're not winning because like it's so congested it's so clogged up

like bricks 12 footers constantly it's really frustrating like Lombardi so for those that don't know Lombardi was the Lions OC from 14 to 15 stafford and 2015 had his lowest A dot of his career under Joe Lombardi. That season, guys and gals, the Lions had like 150 receptions from their running backs. Theoretic went over 80. Joach Bell had 40 something. Amir Abdullah was a rookie and caught 30s. It was ridiculous.

And you're seeing this with Echler. Now, I have Echler on a lot of dynasty teams, so I'm not super mad about it. But like, your running back. shouldn't be getting 16 targets in any game, period. Not unless you found like an insane mismatch and you're like pushing him down the field. So in that Lions team, by the way, had Golden Tate, who at the time was a tremendous downfield threat, deep threat, 4-4, you know, speedy guy. They had Calvin Johnson.

They had young Eric Ebron before his, you know, brain kind of broke. They had downfield threats. And then fast forward, Lombardi leaves Detroit, or he gets fired actually because of this whole thing and goes back to New Orleans. And guess what, Steve? I have a cool stat that has, I got pulled. Drew Brees. Now granted, his arm talent was deteriorating because of age. Yes.

But it's not a coincidence to me that Lombardi goes back, goes from Detroit, his first play calling job, back to New Orleans, has an influence on that offense. And Breeze subsequently has the five. lowest eight out seasons of his career consecutively. And then now he goes to the Chargers and you're seeing him kill Herbert. This is only reason number one, by the there. There's other things that play.

Like one, Joe Lombardi stinks. Two, Keenan Allen hasn't played since week one. That's a big deal for Herbert. Yeah. That's a huge intermediate threat that they just, they don't have. Yeah, short and intermediate. Like, I would rather give Keenan Allen

eight short targets a game than Josh Palmer. Yes. You know, he's going to be more open. He's going to get more yards after the catch. He's going to move the chains more. He's smarter, better player than Josh Palmer. Yes. Okay, when you are consistently moving the chains and extending drives,

you feel confidence to then throw the ball down field. It's not a coincidence that Mike Evans, Mike Williams' deep catches goes way up when Keenan is on the field. It's not because Keenan Allen's, you know, some tremendous space eater, but you keep the offense and rhythm with Keenan on the field. So that's a big problem. The third problem is Rishon Slater's gone. Yeah.

The offensive line isn't holding up the way it was last year even in the first couple weeks this year. Yeah. I mean, I posted the clip on Twitter yesterday. Barron Browning destroyed the tackles in Los Angeles. Yeah, make them look silly. Yeah. So it's a three foldish problem. There's probably more things as well, but those are the three main ones. I would really love for the Chargers to invest into a speedster at wide receiver, too, at some point.

Just once. I feel like it could help open up their offense so much. Yeah, like, why didn't they sign Deshaun Jackson? Why didn't they go after Robbie Anderson? Yeah, that would have been a nice one too. But it's just funny because I feel like this was like this trajectory we're seeing. is like, like I said, it's just, it's wild, the deja vu that's happening for me. I'm like, John Lombardi came in, like coached the Lions 2014. Lions went to the playoffs.

Stafford had a great year. Like, they were pushing the ball down the field a little bit more. And then you move into the next season. Everybody gets excited. Everybody's, everybody's, like, excited for the down, the vertical threats and the vertical push that this offense has. And then he completely nukes it by running spacing, which I, learned was called Hank this this um this weekend that was a it was a fun learning experience that a lot of NFL teams will call that call spacing which is like a lot of you know like stick routes

is um they they call it Hank so that was a cool learning experience for me but um yeah now and then like going to year two and then he just completely nukes the offense and it's all of these short yardage like run the like west coasts but even like worse than west like even worse than the west coast because there's no creativity in it it's just you know it's just six yard throws and run plays and checkdowns and two deep shots a game it's gross is what it is it is so so big miss for that because you know i thought herbert would for sure be in the mix but having justin herbert have a 7.8% deep throw percentage is grounds to fire someone right now.

And that's not even, compared to the league that's not even that low, but it's too low for him. Matt Ryan has a higher deep throw percentage. Ew. You know Smith has a higher deep throw percentage. Trevor Lawrence has a higher deep throw percentage. All right. All right.

All right. Exactly. It's, it's painful to hear. And I think, yeah, in a 6.3A dot. It's bad. It's just like it's. Wait, his a dot is 6.3? That is 6.3.

Oh, my. That's disgusting. Yes. Like, these are things that, like, they're four and two. They could be, they could be and should be better than that. Their defense, other than J.C. Jackson is playing decently. It's playing pretty well. Derwin James is playing pretty well.

But, like, you're completely limiting the ceiling of your team by nerfing your quarterback intentionally with the offense that you run. Right. And I'll just stop there because otherwise I could just keep going, but I'm not going to because it's frustrating. I can see you're frustrated. You're turning red. It is. I just, it's. Is this your Trail-on-Burke's thing? Is Joe Lombardi your Trail on Berks? It might be one of probably a few, but this year, this year it is right now.

It's tough, too, because Herbert's playing through an injury too. so like any issue in the scheme is just going to be more manifested when a guy is not at full capacity because Herbert can cover a multitude of sins with his ability. Yes. So but when he's, you know, playing through an injury, it's going to be harder for him to transcend bad scheme. So all right, Steve, I think we now that we did the Herbert thing, we've sufficiently handled our business. Yes. So, yeah, we will see you guys Friday.

I don't know who the guest is yet, but I do have a couple irons in the fire. We will get someone on here that's fun to talk to and amazing and is going to help us do amazing content. So it's what we want to bring. We want to bring amazing content. We know that there are people out there who do things really well. And we want to expose people to all different opinions. Yeah. Walks of life and all of that.

Yeah. With that said, I'm excited to. announce that we'll have Elon Musk on the show on. And I'm just kidding. All right. I'm getting delusional now. I've got to go. Thank you so much for listening.

The support so far has been tremendous. This is our 14th episode. We're almost a 15. We feel like podcasting veterans at this point, even though we still have a lot to learn and where we're still perfecting our craft. But yeah, good stuff, guys. Thanks for listening.

Real quick, just because we did it last week. last I want to touch on, Jared Irvin put in his Secure the Bag candidate for this season so far. He said Dan Quinn, which I thought was a really good submission. And I think that despite his Micah Parsons usage, like that defense is balling out. I think that that was a great, great addition to that. So thank you, Jim. Thank you, Jared Irvin. Absolutely.

Give him the bag. But now I'm like, I don't know. Let's wait and see. But yeah, no, that's a great submission. Thank you, Jared. Thank you so much. All right. I'm your host, Brett Whitefield. This is my host, Stephen O'Rourke, and we are out. Thanks for tuning in to this edition of the Fantasy Points podcast. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review on your favorite platform.

And come join the roster at FantasyPoints.com.