Fantasy Football Daily - 2022 Take Talk Episode 24

Episode Date: November 23, 2022

Brett Whitefield (@BGWhitefield) and Steven ORourke (@callmesteveo7) discussed Thanksgiving food, recapped Week 11 with a fun Cordarrelle Patterson side car, and previewed the Thanksgiving day slate of games. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's time for the Fantasy Points podcast brought to you by FantasyPoints.com. Top level fantasy football and NFL betting analysis from every perspective and angle, from numbers to the film room with a single goal to help you score more fantasy points. Hello everyone and welcome in to the Take Talk podcast. I'm Steve Norrach and as always I'm with my co-host Brett Whitefield and Brett the holidays are here. Thanksgiving is here. it's an exciting time it's a stressful time for some people but overall it's a time for good food and hopefully good football yes yes to both first things first i love how we call it the holidays

it's like we treat it this this time of year like there's no other holidays that exist you know it's like these are the holidays thanksgiving christmas eve as his own holiday basically at this point you know and then Christmas and then New Year's it's like these are the holidays though you know all those other ones they don't really exist but these are the holidays so well it's just so for like a month period it's just so jam-packed compared to like everything else where you know you go a month or you go like two months and then there's another one and like and with thanksgiving at least in the United States obviously Thanksgiving is pretty exclusive to the United States pretty much but like, you know, Christmas is pretty universally celebrated in some way,

she had performed along with like Hanukkah, things like that. Like there's, and there's also Kwanza, like all of that is in that. So like I feel like that's part of the reason why we say holiday season is there's so many different holidays that aren't just like maybe the ones that you and I celebrate. And so like it's just to all encompass it. Yeah. No, that's a good point. That's a good point.

It is crazy too, right? Because like basically starting with Thanksgiving, there's so many events that happen because you have, you have a lot of people do Friendsgiving. And then you're doing Thanksgiving with your dad or your family. And then your wife's family. And then you have Christmas with your wife's family, Christmas with your family.

But then like now that I'm having kids, I have four kids. So now we do like an intimate Christmas with my dad and his wife. And then we do the big family party where everyone comes. and it's like, there's like 19 different events to go to in like a 30 day period. It's, it's borderline exhausting at this point, you know? Oh, yeah. Like my, like I'm newly married.

I have no kids. I come from a, like both my parents' sides of the family are pretty large. My wife's mom's side of the family is pretty big. And so like we're at the point where like I get, I got a phone call from my mom. Like, all right, here's these holidays. And then her mom called. here's these holidays with these families all of a sudden it's like if we wanted to every weekend could be booked with having to go somewhere to some party to see some family members like yes

we're not going to let it happen but like nor should you if i wanted to i could be like all right family parties the rest the rest of the month we don't have to think about anything we just have to show up yep real quick i don't want to get too sidetracked either steve but when did you get married again I got married October 9th, 2021, right? And the heart of football season. Just so people know, that's like roughly week four of most NFL seasons. So that was last year, Steve left me for an entire week to my own devices. And that was very hard.

And Chris, you know, three weeks prior. Friend of the show, he was two weeks prior. You guys were like basically back to back. Chris got married like week two. And then Steve, two weeks later. And so now it's a new, it's a new pre-rek when I hire guys. I'm like, I need to know about any pending weddings and when you're planning on doing it. And if they give me the wrong answer, they're not getting hired.

It's the weirdest discrimination ever. And for the people who take me way too seriously, I'm not being serious. This is a joke. I'm not discriminating based on wedding dates. Fall wedding throughout. Yeah. Anyways, back on. topic.

So, oh, just also, it's a running joke within the company. I never let a moment pass where I don't take an opportunity to punch Steve and Chris for getting married to the middle of football season. So that's why I brought it up. It'll never be forgotten. You know what? I forgot. We had a company call yesterday with the team and I forgot to make a jab.

I was planning on it and totally forgot. That's going. That's the first company call where Chris has been off the hook. It's starting. It's starting. You're forgetting. Yes. So, oh, man. All right. Holidays, though. Steve, I want to talk food with you a little bit. All right. And I have some interesting takes. I know you do as well, but we'll get to that in a minute.

We have to say a hot tone. Thanksgiving, though. I've come to the opinion in my life that Thanksgiving food is generally good, but the main entrees always suck. because turkey is terrible and so is ham. And that's what most people cook. So I've switched it up in my life, Steve. I no longer do the turkey ham route. I go all out. I do smoked ribby.

Nice. Or sometimes I'll do like a nice reverse sear or something, get a nice crust on it. I've done prime rib in the past. Nice. And then I also do venison. I love venison. Yeah, we'll do back. straps or even some type of like tenderline or something um and it's it's revolutionized

thanksgiving people are excited more excited for the meal than you can imagine and i think it's you know this year we're going to my dads and so i'm not going all out but when we host man we we do it big and it's i think everyone needs to try this because i know people are stuck like turkey is so mid right like i turkey it just has so much variance what that's what it is and most people can't they can't hit the good side i actually my a friend of mine that is in the area like he made a turkey last week and just i mean he did really well with him and his parents are both culinary a very like culinary culinary culinary gifted however you want to word that and so like i mean his he just like loaded his up with butter is butter and herbs and turned out

really good but like i i agree that if especially if you're not in control of it like turkey can be all over the place and it can be it's so it's so like so easier to make it bad so much easier to make it bad and have it be like completely forgettable and ruin things than it is to like make it really good and make it memorable because turkey like even at its best not like that memorable you know yeah exactly right that's you just took the words out of my mouth it's just i mean it's never memorable it's just a freaking deli meat at that like right that's all it is honestly even if you nail it even if you nail it it's still just okay right like i'd rather have a poorly cooked steak than a perfectly cooked turkey yes i that is i a hard percent agree with that yeah and

the reality is it's like 95 percent of people cooking turkeys don't know how to prevent it from getting dry and flaky and flavorless to the point where you're having to drown it with gravy, which look, gravy's great and everything. I just, you know, it's a little much when you have to literally drown your bird and gravy to make it taste good. Are you one of those guys that it's like you want your meat at like baseline? Like the meat that you're eating, whatever it may be, should be able to be eaten without any type of additive, anything to make it to like add to it.

Is it, are you like, I'm not, I'm not, we're like putting steak sauce on a steak is criminal. I would never put steak sauce on a steak. I'll put steak sauce on turkey, though, if it sucks. I'll put steak sauce on like a low grade cut of steak. Yeah, yeah, sure. Especially if it's like overcooked and a little, like, hard to chew, like a more of like a surloin, like a poorly cooked sirloin that gets a little tough. Yeah, I don't mind throwing a little steak sauce on that.

But like when I do my rib eyes, Steve, I do, I make a home. homemade zip sauce. Nice. Really freaking good. And I'd put that on my steak. So, I mean, I'm not super snobby with it as long as the steak is, if the steak is expertly cooked and you come from a culinary skilled family, I do as well. My, both my stepbrother and my step sister are professional chefs at big time restaurants

in the Metro Detroit area. Decent. And so we just, we like have like a giant cookoff every year. Like it's, it's pretty nuts. See, that's the way it should be. and like yeah like i i don't know like for me thanksgiving food it's like it's good it's fine i just i have as i've gotten older i've realized that like there's ways to me to do to do better and make it better than just go with your standard mashed potatoes oh like it's 100% it's great

like it's fun and the amount of food is what draws me in usually but like i know i know my wife and I were doing our own Thanksgiving this year and we decided like we're not doing it we're not doing like a big course we're just going to do like basically just appetizers throughout the day and just kind of like do a little smorgas board of random stuff like we'll probably do like some chicken wings we'll throw in some mac and cheese at some point we'll do like you know fried potato skins and what about a little Charcottery. Oh, well probably, I mean, that's my wife's wheelhouse. So I'm sure, I'm sure that'll get thrown in there at some point. So when we have you guys over for dinner, you got to, you guys got to bring the charcutory. I'll do everything else. I'll do the dinner. Yeah, we can do the dessert, but you guys got to do the charcutory. Because I'm a charcutory lover. We just found a, we just found a market near us in Dearborn that has like, it's like a artisanal market. So like all the cheese, like all the fancy cheese. And like all the fancy cheese. cheese is and meats and everything. So like that's, that's a full go now that, like, she, now that she found that,

we stumbled upon it a couple weeks ago. And so I'm sure that'll be. The crazy thing about charcutory, too, Steve is like, it's gotten very popular, especially with our age group. Yes. A lot of restaurants or something else. But because of that, I feel like you're seeing a lot of price gouging on the meats and cheeses.

I built a charcutory board in the summer for, like, a pool party for, like, 12 adults. and I spent like $85 building this thing. Oh yeah, I believe that. And I'm like, it's not even, like, it was delicious, but like I wanted it all for my, I spent $85 on this. I don't want anyone else eating my shirkutery. That's mine. On second thought, I can't make it.

I have to stay home, guys. Yeah. Yes. Exactly. But that's, it's kind of crazy. But charcutory, there will be multiple chakoterie boards at our Thanksgiving tomorrow. Yeah. Because we all get together for basically, it revolves around football the day.

So we get together. other for the Lions game at 12 30 and we don't leave till the last game's over it's kind of nuts especially with four kids they get a little tired and a little sleepy little cranky but it's all good we we just literally watch football and eat all day so we will do charcutory there will be i think some wings some venison jerky for like an appetizer nice i love it and then we kind of just build the day from there but i love your your strategy of just doing like i would much rather have wings than turkey right you know but i i think a lot of the sides with Thanksgiving food are great. That's what I said. Generally

speaking, I think Thanksgiving food is good. And that's, and that's, I agree. I enjoy, like, I love mac and cheese, love corn, I love mashed potatoes. Sweet potatoes. I'm not a stuffing guy. I'm not really either, actually. I'm not a sweet potato guy either. Really? I've tried. I just, you know, I don't know what it is. Sweet potato casserole, though, with like the brown sugar and the marshmallows and all

that, like, you won't do that? I, I can say that I've never tried that because, A, A, like sweet potatoes turn me off in general. And then B, seeing sweet potatoes with marshmallows just doesn't sit right with me. Bro, it's so good though. I can't do it. I can't do it. So like most of our sides will be comfort foody.

Yeah. You know, so it's like real, real good like homemade mac and cheese, sweet potato casserole. Some greens. We'll do a really nice greens. We'll usually do like an asparagus and prosciutto dish as well. which is delicious. That's good. Do a green bean casserole, which is delicious.

I think green bean cassero is underrated. If it's done right, it can slap. Absolutely. That's another one. That's another one. Like, Thanksgiving food, the problem with it is that there's a lot of upside, but there's a lot of downside with it too. There is.

Like, I'm a, I love gravy. Big, big fan of gravy. And that's another food that, like, you can make it. Like, if you use the turkey, you use the turkey, like, the, like, juices and things from the turkey and you use that as a base and then you build it up from there it's good but there's like when people like do it out of a box or whatever it's terrible it just tastes like liquid cardboard and so like that's my biggest like not the biggest concern because i like again i've always had good thanksgivings because i've always known who's cooked it that may change my life

as you know we meet friends and things like that who knows but like for me i've never had worry around that but I do know that the variance and some like some people's view of Thanksgiving is completely different depending on how the cooking is in their family. That is very true. Like growing up, I did not enjoy Thanksgiving meal as much as I do now because, you know, basically all the people who cook now are like my generation. So me and my brothers, my wife, their wives. And we all just are better cooks, I feel like.

Like my mom was not a good. cook at all. Okay. So yeah, and her, and her family, none of them are really good cooks. So it's like very, very mid to below average Thanksgiving dinner. But we've definitely upgraded. Anyways, I'm excited about it. And then we should probably, we did it. We did real quick just because of the big topic. desserts. I mean, if you had like, are you a pie guy? Are you, uh, I, this is going to sound crazy. Two Thanksgiving dessert. So this is going to sound crazy. I am not really a dessert guy in general.

It doesn't surprise me, actually. Yeah. And I basically can never eat it because I'm always training for something or trying, you know, having to cut weight for some event or something like that. So I really try to stay away from it. But it's not even really Thanksgiving-centric, but I love cheesecake. Okay. It's the one dessert I can, I will splurge for.

And every year, someone will bring a cheesecake to Thanksgiving. So that's probably what I'll eat. If I had to go pie, though, I'm an apple pie with ready whip guy. Okay. And this is, oh, no, sorry. Ready whip or ice cream. The spray, right? No, no, no.

Or is that out of the. No, you're right. Sorry, I said that wrong. Ready whip is the spray. I don't like the spray. I'm a cool whip guy out of the tub. Okay. Yeah, or ice cream.

you know, if you get the pie hot and it gets all melty, the ice cream really takes that addition to another level. So if I have to do pie, that's the way I go. I don't like pumpkin pie. Pumpkins weird me out. And like you can, I've had good pumpkin pie, but for the most part, I think it's terrible. Okay. And then I can.

Yeah, the textures weird. I was raised on pumpkin pie. My dad loved pumpkin pie. So I was raised with it. So I like, I think I've, it's lost, it's luster a little bit. but I still enjoy it. Yeah, I'm like an albatross because I'm the only one of my family who hates it. But I will go for some pecan pie.

This is rare. Like, we don't have that lot, but it's good. It's more of a southern dish, you know. But if you can find pecan pie and throw a little, little ice cream on that or cool whip, you're in business. And then sweet potato pie, it can be good as well, but it can also be terrible. Because sweet potatoes are, they're a real weird balance there. Yeah. As you said, you don't even like them.

So, like, they're definitely, I'm out. I've had really gross sweet potato pie before. But it can, if you do it right, it can be very good. Yeah. Yeah. But so, I'm an apple guy. I'm an apple pie. Cherry pie is okay.

My wife's samely makes a really good cherry pie. I'm, I, you can pretty, any fruit pie I'm probably in on. I really, I like key lime. You do key lime? You do. Really? Really, I like key lime pie. It's another one that kind of weird to me.

ice cream though. I am not. Yeah, I know. That's, I, I revealed that. It's usually, I wait until people start, you know, liking me or enjoying working with me or before I reveal that because it, it always elicits a very primal response from everyone involved, usually. A lot of flag planting immediately follows. Yeah, it's usually a lot of like disgust and like you think that I, you think that I just told people that I don't like, like, that I said something bad about someone's mom or something. Like, that's just immediate disgust and like questioning.

It's like, it's like I'm on the witness stand. They're like, you don't like ice cream. Did you say that right? I'm like, yes, I did.

And I don't, listen, it's my, apparently it was just my cross spare. Loved it as a kid, went to college, got super poor, didn't have money to splurge on that.

It was, I needed money for beer and staying in like rent and chicken. and so didn't have it for a while had it again for the first time and like what had been three years and then I tried it and I was like this isn't it I try it like I tried it a couple months later wasn't it I try it like once a year just to see if if it comes back it hasn't this is the weirdest take the fact that you like say you loved ice cream and then four years later all of a sudden you don't like it I think I just got burnt out on it we like that was the only dessert we had when I was growing up.

They were like, only dessert. And I don't know. I just, I now, I don't eat it. It's, my wife loves it because then she,

no, she, you know, she likes to have, like her pint of ice cream every once a while just in the house. And she loves it because she knows that, the only person that's touched it is her. That's,

so it works out for her. So in the work chat yesterday, I put a poll. And I just wanted to see, you know, where people stood on pies. And so I said, hey, with your pie, are you guys A, going with ready whip, B going with cool whip, C, don't care, they're both good, or D. I forget what D was. Be a man. Be a man.

Don't put anything on your pie, which is not me, by the way. I have to have something on my pie. But, yes. And then Steve chimes in with, or a couple of people had to. commented, well, you forgot ice cream. Ice cream's goaded on pie. And I was like, yeah, ice cream is pretty good. That's a good, good point.

I probably should have put ice cream in the pole. And then Steve chimes in with, well, actually, guys, I don't like ice cream at all. Not even on my pies. I just don't like ice cream. And then kind of set chat into a frenzy because. But I did find some support. From who? I think it was Anthony.

Anthony said that he doesn't like it because it makes his teeth hurt. I like that. Anthony, go to a dent. brother. Sounds like you've got up some cavities, my man. Sorry, Anthony Knott's a 3M blast there, but. But I just, I had support in the room. It was surprising. That's wild. I don't think ice cream is like some over-the-top go to dessert, but it's so consistent. Like, hot summer day, you can go to any boutiquey ice cream shop and you're

going to get a delicious scoop. Listen, I don't know, I don't disagree with you. I just don't like it. That doesn't make any sense of me. Have you tried, like, other flavors? Are you just like... I do sherbert. I love sherbert. I love fruit flavored stuff. Sherbert, I'm all in.

You like all fruit flavored stuff? Pretty much. Like... So do you, like sour beers? Like, sours? I do, too, actually. Like, if I'm going for candy, it's usually Skittles, Sour Patch Kids somewhere. Oh, same.

So... Sweet tarts, smarties. Oh, yeah. I raid my kids' Halloween bags of all the smarties. It's so good. And then I barter for the sour patch kids usually. Man. Smart.

Well, we just spent 21 minutes talking about food. Which honestly, my second favorite thing to talk about, usually. It's like football and food. Who doesn't love talking about food? Right. We should probably talk football, though. Let's, since, oh, yeah, announcement, by the way. We're not doing a Friday show with Black Friday happening.

There's football being played on Thanksgiving, a lot of football, which means Steve and I have to work for a good chunk of. Friday at least the half day. Yeah. And then there's a bunch of family stuff going on later of the day. So we really don't have time. So we're going to kind of hit multiple angles today. We're going to review a little bit of this past weekend's terrible slate of games.

Then we're going to get into previewing the, we'll do the, we'll talk about the Thanksgiving slate, which is pretty tremendous, actually, best in recent memory. So, but week 11, Steve, let's talk about that. what a what a train wreck of games it was a stinker i mean we said we said it but it was um less than stellar i don't know if my eyeballs can handle that again i just like it just was ugly football all the way around outside like chicago atlanta was fun and that was it actually let's tell That's a perfect game to start because this is the, I told you I had a subcategory I wanted to talk about. Yes.

It came from that game. Okay. All right. The Atlanta Falcons hosted the Chicago Bears and they won 2724. In that game, Cordero Patterson rips off 103-yard kick return for a touchdown. His ninth of his career setting the NFL record for kick returns for a touchdown. And I made the statement in our company chat that I think Cordell Patterson, is a Hall of Famer because of how good at kick returns he is.

And people don't realize how good he is. He is by far the best of all time. Would you agree with that? Yes. It kick returns, yes. So I made a quick top five list for you, Steve, and I just want to show you, show the listeners how much better Patterson is than the other guys on that list.

You have Josh Cribbs, Leon Washington, Mel Gray. That one. Okay. Dante Hall. You're not going to put Dr. Hester in there? He was not really good at kick returns. He's better at punt returns.

Okay. I mean, how many did he have? He had like what? Two or three. Was it only that many? Okay. I think so. That's fair.

I think so. Yeah, okay. So, and then I didn't include, those guys from like the 30s and 40s who have some weird numbers, but like I didn't include them because it's the 30s and 40s. But the thing that makes Cordill Patterson's kick return career, so significantly better than everybody else's is he did it exclusively in an era where they were trying to get rid of the kick return. And people don't realize this.

Yes. Among the other guys on this list, Cordell Patterson has by far the least amount of kick returns. And he also has the most kick return touchdowns. For example, Dante Hall had 426 career kick returns and he scored on six of them. Patterson had 264 and scored on nine of them, like almost half. almost half as many. It's actually absurd. Half as many returns and double the amount of touchdowns.

It's, yeah, it's pretty nuts. So, also his career average is 29.6. Dante Hall's is 23.8. I'm using Dante Hall because he's typically the guy everyone says is the best other than Patterson. Yeah. Or Cribs. Dante Hall's career average is 23.8. six yards per return less than Patterson, which is nuts.

In an era where they have made it difficult to return kicks. A, you just don't get opportunities, but when you do, you know, the ball got moved up. So the defense is basically on you like flies on poo. Right. Because for it to be the coverage team, I mean. Because usually for it to be a returnable ball, generally it's when like a kicker is putting the ball in like more air underneath. it. It's more of a pop kick.

Yeah, or they're trying to put it like right on the goal line or just inside the goal line to make you have to make that choice. Instead of a drive, you know, just driving the ball through the end zone. Usually it's a little bit more finesse, a little bit more hang time. And so like you said, there's way less room at the, from the jump of the return than there used to be. Right. when, you know, Dante Hall was back there. And when Dante Hall was playing, the touchbacks were still out to the 20. Yeah, that too.

Which means there was, even if the ball was kicked relatively deep into the end zone, three or four yards deep, it's still in a lot of instances made sense to take the ball out of the end zone. Right. Because the chances of you getting past the 20 are a lot better than the chances of you getting out to the 25. Right. So the fact that pass the. Patterson's average is six yards per touch better than Hall is nuts. Yeah, that's crazy.

That means it basically doesn't matter how deep into the end zone you kick it. Patterson's likely going to improve the field position if he takes it out of the end zone. Right, right. Which is crazy. Four to five yards added to where you would be. And we all say it's a game of inches. And man, like if you're, every time he gets a kick return, you're adding, you know, six yards to the game. That's phenomenal.

And he just, you saw it on Sunday. He just has such good vision when he's back there. He's, he's very, he is amazing vision. He's great at setting up his blocks. That's, I mean, those are the two things that like separate him as his ability to redirect, set up blocks and then cut off of that angle and utilize those blocks to spring him open. Yep. And it's a very underrated skill. And it's, it's, it's not surprising.

that he's done so well as a running back given, you know, given his return skills. Because he had, because like, you know, he has the body. He has the big body to, you know, to play running back to be inside things like that. And it's just too bad that it took all. It took him getting to Atlanta for that potential to truly be realized in the NFL. Well Chicago his last year in Chicago they kind of used him that way a little bit that's true they were they started to yeah I think he had over 60 carries which for a wide receiver obviously that's a lot so but like for if you think about returners he probably had the most complete game outside of returning the football and it's just it's just too bad like we said like that it took that long because I think that he could have been a much more. utilized and much more dynamic player in the NFL if you know he hadn't gotten slapped with that he's a return man label right away and then people building out his game around that yep

i agree i he was a first round pick for the minnesota vikings in 2013 yep and i like people have routinely said he's a bust i'm just not sure he was i just think he was miscast Yeah, I just don't think it's his fault. Like, I just, yeah, like, I don't put the blame on him because I don't think he got the right opportunity. And that's not necessarily, and to, like, to call him a bust, he's still set an NFL record. Like, I don't care. Yeah. For sure, one, look at it this way.

By the end of this season, he'll likely cross 5,000 total yards from scrimmage and go over 35 touchdowns, along with having career marks and kick return average and kick return touchdowns. Career high in the NFL, like NFL all-time leaders. It's hard to call a guy a bus when he's putting up 5,000 total yards, 35 plus touchdowns, and he's the best kick-return guy of all time. Right, right. So I think he's a Hall of Famer, that said. I agree.

I think that he is the best at one skill. that and regardless of it, it's still a skill that is integral to the game. And because of that, I think he deserves to be recognized in the Hall of Fame because if you're the best at anything in the NFL, like, I just think that you deserve to be recognized in that, like, for that. And I think that should come with a Hall of Fame jacket. I agree. He's also been what?

So he's been an all pro four times for special teams, of course, not for his play. He's been a pro bowler four times as well. So pretty, he's got some sneaky accolades for a guy who's been relatively under the radar his whole career. And he's not slowing down. He's still like, he hadn't, you know, a little bit of an injury early in the year, but he's bounced back. He looks good so far. He's, you know, continuing to help keep. that Arthur Smith offense running somehow.

And yeah, I just like, yeah, I think that he's a lot of fun to watch. And I'm enjoying that he's finally starting to be used in the way that he should have been used for years. Yep. He's averaging 5.3 yards of carrier this year. Yeah. Pretty darn good. Yeah, he's playing well. He's the best running back on that team.

Yep. It's funny. we always talk about Arthur Smith and his love for unicorns. You know, he had Henry and AJB in Tennessee, and now he had Pitts and I wouldn't say London's a unicorn, but Pitts is definitely unicorn. Patterson's kind of like a low-key unicorn. Like he's 6-2-25 and, I mean, he can flat-out run.

Runs like a deer. Yeah, right. So I'm not surprised Smith figured out how to get the best out of him, I guess is what I'm saying. No, that's why Arthur Smith is both frustrating and exciting, but confusing. And he just, he wraps all of the emotions into what he is as a play caller, head coach, anything. Because how can it's, it's just so funny where you look and it's like, we all come,

we have all complained about pits usage, pits, this, and even London. as the season has gone on, but then we also get to praise how he's used Cordero Patterson. And guess what? They're still right in the thick of that NFC South, the playoff race. I don't understand it. We've talked about the Fountain Lunge, but they're just, it's, they're just so bizarre. They're one of the more bizarre teams in recent memory, in my opinion.

They really are. They really are. as much as we want to discredit, you know, Arthur Smith and what the Falcons have done. He's getting those guys in position to win. And they've beat a plethora of pretty bad teams, right? The ABC South is at a Cush schedule all around. Yeah. They did beat the 49ers, though, right, Atlanta?

Or no, they just lost to them. Yes. They've had a couple close lots. It was a close game, yeah. They barely lost to the Chargers. They, you know, close loss to San Francisco. So yeah, I mean, they're definitely in the thick of it. And Steve, that was probably the most exciting game on this last week's slate.

Yeah. Everything else was trash. Like if we revisit the games we talked about on the preview pod, Cowboys Vikings was arguably the worst slate on their game on the slate. It was terrible. And you and I were both wrong. But it was a good, I mean, it's, I don't know. Where do I even go with this?

That's not like who the Vikings are 100%. But just knowing that that game is in there, it is horrifying. Right. You know, like knowing that that game is there and able to be played by the Minnesota Vikings, that's horrifying. It really is. Because on the flip side, like, you see a team like that where Minnesota just played their worst game. And they lost 40 to 3 to a team that is also.

figuring it out. Like they're, they are by no means the best team in the NFC. I think that they gave that they made a case for it on Sunday. But by no means, do I think that they're like clearly the best team in the NFC. But like that the Minnesota Vikings can have that bad of a game and lose that bad. Where on the flip side,

you look at a team like Philadelphia where they had two of their worst weeks in a row. and granted they weren't playing teams to the caliber of the cowboys, but they lost by four points or 12, it ended up being 12 points, I think, or whatever, 10 or 12 to the commanders, and then beating the Indianapolis Colts this week by one point. Like those were definitively,

like some of the worst overall games for the Eagles, and they only lost by a couple points and then won by a point. Right. The Minnesota Vikings have had two, like two very bad games, and they've lost both of them, and the margins have been a non-competitive 17-point loss and a, a laughable 37-point loss. So that's just like, it's just something to keep an eye on going into the, like going into the latter part of the year and going into the playoffs to just know it, like, you cannot feel solid about the Minnesota Vikings in any game anymore.

I feel like, especially any game against a good opponent. You and I were so wrong about this game. It's actually crazy. Oh, yeah. We both, not only we both take the Vikings, I proclaimed that it was the Dalvin Cook Show week because the Cowboys have been so bad against the run. Now, listen, Cook early in that game looked like

it was going to be a pretty good game for them, but the game script just got out of hand. I mean, it was, they couldn't continue to run the ball. They wanted to. They wanted to, make it. make it the cook show but they just had no they just couldn't get off the ground because the cowboys and dan quinn and are have started listening to the podcast apparently i i agree this was and i just this is um i might get the name around but quentin fensky who is a listener he tweeted

at us a couple days ago and he said the lions put hutch into two-point stance cowboys put parsons on the edge more and Lombardi had had Herbert throwing the ball down field more and he said you and I are out here fixing NFL teams for free preach I mean and I agree like look at like look at what happened to all three of those like the cowboys played the cowboys play parsons on the edge way more, even though Anthony Barr was still out, which was an adjustment that I thought definitely needed to happen. And like what happened on the first or second offensive series for the Vikings, Parsons gets through with a strip sack.

First, first play of the games, or first pass play of the game for the Vikings. Yeah. Like, I mean, talk about it, talk about it being justified right away for you. If you're Dan Quinn for like, why, like, that should immediately remove why ever putting him off the ball, except for a gadget blitz or, you know, maybe your third and long kind of like a NASCAR package, something like that. But I think any question about where Parsons should be lining up is out the door. It's on the edge because he's definitively one of the most impactful defensive

players in the NFL when he's lined up at the edge. Yeah, what's crazy too is that play was beautifully designed as it, like, I don't know if you remember that place specifically, but they put six guys in the line of scrimmage. Yep. And then they kind of do like this really weird zone back out with like, it almost looks like a safety rotation. And it's basically like three, we call it three seam. It ends up having a lot of man qualities, but there's a few zone droppers in there too. It just totally bugged Kirk out. He's like, he had no idea what he was looking at. The way they set it up with their with their pre-snap alignment. And then what they showed post-snap,

It just totally freaked him out. He tries to roll out of the pocket and Parsons chases him down, knocks the ball loose. It was a beautiful way to start the game. I'm pretty big on the Cowboys now coming out of this game. I do think they might be an Amari Cooper short, ironically, of competing for a Super Bowl. That's so mean, but it's so true. Yeah, I mean, if you put Cooper on this team right now, how freaking good are the Cowboys? I mean, you're basically two-xing Michael Gallup at that point, right?

Yeah, yeah. You say you'd be doubling what Michael Gallup is. And Michael Gallup's decent, but hey, he's coming off an injury. And even at his peak, he is not what Amari Cooper is. I did, like, if you add that to the offense, geez, they would. Just completely different skill sets, too. Like Gallup is a go up and get a guy. He's more of a contested catch, back.

shoulder possession type receiver guy. Yeah. Cooper is a true separator. Like even more so that like Lambs an okay separator. He's more of an after the catch scheme it up kind of guy. I want to get him on those deep overs and those drag routes. Maybe a slot

wheel here and there to get him a downfield look. But Cooper is a true separator. You can ISO him. Let him go one on one with a corner. He's going to win a lot of those matchups. He's going to move the chains. He's going to be valuable in the red zone. Like they need that guy in the offense. This whole thing would move better.

if they had him. Like a lot better. If you put, like, if you put Amari Cooper in a defender in a one by one, in a one yard by one yard box, Cooper could find separation. Oh, absolutely. Gallup, Gallup can make a contestant. Like, you know, he can make a play at the catch point. He can be a big buyer's year, but like, Yack isn't going to be there.

And he's not going to win that. Like, get being a contestant to catch guy or a guy that can't really separate but can win with his hands. like that's body control hands yeah that doesn't win all the time like there's just a no risk to that and cd lamb like you said like he's fast he is great top end speed he is great at yak but like you said when it comes to separating like if you were to put him in a one by one box he wins that 40 to 50% of the time cooper wins that 75 to 95% to 90% of the time it's like uh the the popular game you've seen on the internet all the time walk ball

yes it's like Cooper Cooper would probably dominate that game yes he would I mean the thing but the thing with the Cowboys that does give me pause and I think everybody's talked to add nauseam about it but it's

gonna continue to rain true as like why do they keep why do they keep insisting on Ezekiel Elliott yeah I mean I should say we know why it's because it's coming from ownership and justification of a contract that they gave and all of like at this like at this point if jerry jones were to come out and say something against zeke that would require him to it's almost like a cult

it'd require him to also admit that he had been wrong for the previous five years so oh yeah it's much easier it's much easier to just push forward with what you're saying than it is to do some soul searching and uh really grapple with the fact that you were just wrong for five years Steve, how, like, when, when Zeke got those two freebie touchdowns this week, how right do you think Jerry felt? Oh, he's right. Oh, yeah. I knew it. Zeke's back.

Two walk-in touchdowns, baby. You know, like, you know he looked at Stephen and everybody else in the owner's box and he's like, that's why we pay that man. That's why we gave him that contract. Even though Pollard did the dirty work the entire day. Even though, like, the first touchdown is just the. offensive line swing like just completely bulldozing Minnesota's defensive line into the end zone where I'm just like you Brett I could have scored on that play oh I know I know like they had they had they had the defensive line on the left side of the office on the left side in a one yard deep in the

end zone it was a cake walk yep yeah power looks awesome now listen Dan Quinn if you are listening to this week's podcast please hand the headphones to McCarthy or whoever his call on plays there. Kellyn Moore, whoever it is, don't care. Try putting the guys, those two guys on the field

together once in a while, at least more than you do. Like, I'd like to see less Zeke in general, but if you're going to have him on the field, at least put Pollard out there too once in a while. Throw him in the slot. Because, I mean,

let's face it, Noah Brown, he's performed well, considering what they've asked him to do this year, but he's not a dude. No. So maybe roll some, you know, two tight end,

or I'm sorry, two running back, looks out there with instead of trotting out a slot receiver in brown maybe you put out Pollard there let them put them in motion get them on those jet jet actions and see how the defense responds I promise you you'll probably get some some really good free plays out of that um Zeke right now he averaged 2.8 yards per carry this last game the years per carry is not always indicative of a running back being successful but that's pretty bad Steve yeah when it's that bad it still it says something you have to draw

something. And just, but like before we move on, Dak Prescott's looked really good. He's continued to improve. I mean, I obviously, we all knew the Cooper Rush starting was a joke, but at least most people knew. But Dak Prescott's looked really good,

and I think that he elevates that offense in a way that they've needed and they haven't seen, and they don't see with him out. I mean, we forget, like, we forget that it wasn't just a couple years ago that this offense was just hanging 40 on teams week after week for a little bit. Like this offense has super high potential. And Dak Prescott is a very good, he's very good of throwing the football. He can use his legs when he has.

He hasn't done it so far this year, but he has the ability to use his legs when he wants to. And that's why, like, I'm comfortable saying that Dallas is probably, Right now, I would put them as my, like, second favorite in the NFC to make it to the school. I really. Eagles still number one for you? Yes. Yeah, me too. And that is, again, it's like I said, with the Vikings for the Eagles, it's just that I've seen, I've seen probably their worst games, and their worst games still got them a win or almost got them a win.

Yeah. And that, you know, I like, I enjoy that. And I think that that has credence going into the playoffs, knowing that your floor is that high. And the odds that we see, you know, four fumbles in a game again are not that high. So. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for me, like, I think the Vikings peaked too early.

I think they played their best football already. And so what I look for when I'm trying to figure out who's going to come out of a conference or even have a deeper run than people expect. I'm looking for the team peaking at the right time. I think the 49ers are going to be in that mix. I think Dallas can be in that mix. I think the Eagles, they may have also peaked too early, but I think they can still get it back. They haven't done anything yet that says,

ooh, that's gross. And their schedules, so their schedules easy enough that they can kind of, like, you can tinker with it. You can tinker with it, and you can figure some things out. Yeah. Like, the dark horse for me is Tampa Bay.

I think, I think they, they still can, they haven't played their, best football yet. And if they find a way to start peeking here towards the end of the year, I think they could be sneaky scary. We'll see, though. I mean, they've been bad enough to be very concerned. So, yeah. Obviously, they're five and five for a reason. The NFC's up in the air. And like San Francisco, like you said, I think that they're a team to watch. But yeah, I think it's, I really like that roster. I like the staff outside of Shanahan.

I just think they're going to be held back by Jimmy is what I worry about. I mean, yes, they added Christian McCaffrey. Other than that, we've seen this. Like, we've seen this exact iteration of this team before. Just, you know, their corners are a little bit different. They're a little bit worse. Yeah, their corners are a little bit worse. They added McCaffrey, IUC has emerged.

You know, they have some different weapons on offense, but like, we've seen this before. Yep. And until, I don't know, unless we see Jimmy G go on a run of a few games in a row, like there's no reason to believe that it won't come down to can they play a good enough game where they don't have to rely on Jimmy G. Yeah. I mean, that is the nice thing about having them in contention is we all know what they are. And we all know what they're trying to do and we all know their deficiencies.

For sure. All right. The other game we talked about was the Lions at the New York Giants. They went into East Rutherford, New Jersey, and they won 31 to 18. I proclaimed on this year podcast that they would win that game. It was a convincing win. It was a convincing win. I personally bet both the spread and their money line to win the game.

Nice. And that paid well for me. The main takeaway I had going into that game, and I said these exact words, see was if the lions don't have the blueprint for stopping read option by now, then they're doomed anyways. And they had already seen Jalen Hertz. They'd already seen Gino Smith. They'd already seen even Carson Wentz.

They were doing some read option stuff with him. They had already seen Justin Fields, who's probably the most difficult guy they played with the read option this year. And they had the reps. They had the in-game reps of how to stop read option. Daniel Jones is not Justin Fields. He's a pretty athletic dude. I'll give him that.

But he's not just in Fields. So I kind of had this feeling. I just knew that the Lions defense would show up and they would box that run game in. And that's exactly what they did. Early in the game, it looked like the Reed Option was going to be bad for them. I think Jones got loose on one. But when I went through and tallied all the run concepts they ran with

read option tag, the Lions basically gave up three yards of carry on those plays in some total. Not only that, they held Barclay to 1.5 yards of carry. They took away the two things the Giants want to do. And it was a bloodbath. And that's, I mean, the read option, you don't have to defend it perfectly all the time, but they made it one dimensional. Yeah. And when you make it one dimensional, the offense can't keep going to it.

Exactly. Because it's just like the upside of it isn't there anymore. Ali like I Aleem McNeil won this game for the Detroit Lions He did He did He legitimately His career

Legitably uncomfortable saying that he Single-handedly is the reason that defense Gave up the amount of points they gave The reason that they shut down Barclay I mean he had a game that we've seen from Maybe Like that we can see from maybe two or three defense like interior defensive line men in the NFL.

Chris Jones, Aaron Donald. Lawrence, Dexter Lawrence actually had a couple of those games this year. Dexter Lawrence was my third. Who's, there's someone else. I'm forgetting. Quinn and Williams is emerging as a guy like that this year. Quinnon. Quinnin, yeah.

New York Jets. I feel like there's, I feel like there's some, I know who he is. I feel like there's somebody else. I don't know what you're saying. But either way, like he had 10 pressures, he had a sack. I mean, the guy was on another level on Sunday. And I hope that this, I don't know if this is just he had the matchup and he had studied game film and he had Lemieux just read the whole entire game. I'm not entirely sure.

But like, if this is, if that's a potential development on that, on that defensive line, the line i mean i think that this week is the i know we've said like i keep i keep saying this in my head of like no this week is what is the true test for the for the detroit lions but i do believe that if the lions stay competitive and or beat the bills it's a different conversation and i mean it just it seems like it just took this team a little bit of time for the youth to gel and people to get the concepts down and really like really really like fully come together i think it just took some time because they were young and people got impatient with the with the lions and i mean i get it don't trust me you if there's anybody if there's two people that get it it's you and i that

we it's okay understandable to get impatient with them because we've seen the story that was developing time and time again and our in our time as being a or being Lions fans. Listen, this three-game win streak they're on, Steve, it hasn't looked much different than some of the other games. No. Like, I know we've said it before, but four of their six losses combined for a total of 14 points.

Like, that's, Steve, that's less than four points a game. They're losing on average, like most of the games are losing, they're losing by a field goal. Yeah. Or less. Like, that's, so, yeah, I think some of it is, guys are jelling. The scheme is taken off a little bit, especially on defense. Defensively,

they're playing a lot better than they were pre-by week. They were getting shredded. And then also, you know, they've had some breaks go their way. They're actually forcing turnovers rather than being the team that turns the ball over. Those things matter and they're winning. Which that's what I was going to say is the big thing. A big thing is if you just like dive into their past, like, excuse me, their defensive passing statistics. Weeks one through eight they were teams were completing 69% of their passes 7.5 yards or sorry 8.4 yards per attempt and but but I said this last week the Detroit lines were forcing turnover where they throws on 8.2% but they only had two interceptions through the first eight weeks yeah let's go to

weeks 9 through 11 now teams are complete teams are only completing 58% of their passes. Holy crap. Yards per attempt has gone down to 7.5 and they forced six, they forced six interceptions in the last three weeks. And that's on seven point five percent turnover worthy throws. So those turnover worthy throws are starting to turn into turnovers. Turnovers, which is huge.

So it's just regression, really, just regression to the mean. Like they've been, they've been in the top third at forcing turnover worthy throws all season. Top third of the NFL all season. It's just, that's crazy. It wasn't until these last three weeks that they started converting those into actual turnovers. And winning the turnover game is what completely changes the complexion of games in the NFL.

Yeah. All right. So I got a crazy way to take this conversation. All right. I don't want to linger on this topic too much because I do want to get into the Thanksgiving slate because I think it's juicy. Oh, it's so good. We do have a, I know for sure we have a few Lions fans that list.

and even if you're not a Lions fan, I have a challenge to just football fans in general. Winning changes expectations, right? We've seen the Lions gone a three-game win streak. They've looked pretty good, not perfect, but pretty good. First three-game win streak since 2017, which is... Yeah, Matt Patricia never had one. Matt Patricia also never won back-to-back road games either.

In fact, Jim Cald the only one back-to-back road games, I think twice in his four years here. So it's been a long time since we've had a coach be able to do what Dan Campbell just did. Yeah. Anyways, my challenge you guys is winning changes expectations. And with where the lions are trending and where the bills are currently trending, as a fan of the, you need to expect the lions to win this game. I've heard a lot of people, I've heard a lot of national opponents to say this, but like, oh, we just need the lines to compete to prove it's real.

No, no, no. The lines need to go win this game. The moment is right now. The time is now. They've played well. The bills are kind of on the heels. Josh Allen's played like crap for four weeks. He's got the torn UCL.

We've, you know, there's some, some down low stuff about the, about the elbow that maybe, you know, it's more serious than we think. Like, the, the bills have the giant snowstorm. Their travel arrangements have been garbage all week. They're going to be poorly rested. Yeah. Short week, have to fly right back to Detroit. They did end up going home for some reason. Yes, they did.

I don't understand why. But it's like, you have them on the heel, like on the ropes. hit the knockout punch win your fourth in a row go beat the bills that the expectations have changed now for this team it's time to do it i don't i don't i don't want to hear the oh we just want them to

you know compete not get blown out no go win go win this is this is a blood in the water game yes this is this like this is a game that should epitomize what

the should epitomize what the should epitomize and really be the, like, official stamp that the culture is here of what Dan Campbell is putting into play. I mean, we all taught, like, everybody's talked about his initial press conference, the biting the kneecaps, the, you know, take us down, we'll keep getting back up, that whole mentality. I mean, this is it. Like, this is the game to do it because you had, you started one in six. You had the games where you got beaten down. you took the punches you didn't pull through in all of them but guess what now you're starting to

pull through you just had your first convincing win this is like if you're building a culture this is the game where you you take you jump off that like first convincing win of your coaching tenure first convincing win in five years for the detroit lions i mean probably since 2019 new york against the New York Giants at home was probably the last time the Lions have comfortably won a game that wasn't the Green Bay Packers not starting Aaron Rogers or not giving a crap about the game. And so like you're here now like put your stamp on it. Go out and win. You're getting healthier. That injury report does not look as long as it does.

They could be out their top four guards, which is a little bit concerning. Jonah's going to play right. One of Jackson entered concussion protocol yesterday. Oh, he did yesterday? So he's out then. Probably he's out. So we could be without, sorry, not we, the lions could be without their top four guards, which is concerned.

But it doesn't matter. You still are getting healthier and other. It hasn't mattered. It hasn't mattered. And you're still getting healthier in other places. Yeah. And just. If there's one spot, they're deep.

It's that offensive line. So I'm not too worried about that, but put a stamp on it. You know, cement yourself. Because again, if they win this. game, they are in the thick of it. That NFC is up for grabs and they are in the right in the thick of it. And they're in the thick of it going in a direction that not every team is going with a schedule that is very conducive to making a run down the edge. Brother, we haven't even got into that because that is a great point. But Steve, so did you watch Hard Knocks? You did, right?

Yeah. So the first episode, I think Campbell had this. It was better. than his first ever press conference he did where he talked about biting kneecaps but his speech was about taking the taking the enemy into the deep and then eventually drowning him deep waters so i got news for you guys the bills aren't showing up to fight on the beach they're already in deep water yeah they've been sure this team is reeling they've been shredding for a bet yes so you they've done a lot of the work for you you just need to swim out to them and and bury them drowned them fill their lungs with water they got to do it um let's for the thanksgiving slate let's do let's do for each team the three three keys to winning i think that like just for

for for all six teams what does what does each team need to do to win to win their respective game like if you so for the first up first game of the day 12 I think it's 1230 kickoff. Yeah. 1230 kickoff. Buffalo Bills traveled to Detroit for the second week in a row to face up against the Detroit Lions. Let's start with, since we're on the topic, let's start with the Detroit Lions. Yeah.

What are the three things that they need to do to win this game? So one day, obviously have to keep Josh Allen in check. Now, mostly with his legs. I've mentioned he's played pretty poorly the last four weeks, which is true. That doesn't mean he can't snap out of it in an instance. So do not give him any room. You're going to have to use the same game plan you've been using, whether it was Justin Fields or Daniel Jones or Jalen Hertz. We've gone through the list a hundred times.

They've seen these guys play. Now, Alan isn't necessarily a juke you out in the open field kind of guy, but he is a lower the shoulder and run your ass over kind of guy. So, you know, you got to contain him, especially with his legs. Got to contain the legs. You know, discipline and rushing the passer. Discipline pass rush lanes. Don't get cute. Don't give him an opening.

If he's able to break the pocket and buy himself time, that's when good things happen for him and where bad things happen for the defenses he's playing. That's number one. Number two, the lion's got to keep Jared Gough clean. The bill's defense is hard to move the ball on as is. the bill's pass rush can be very good if the pass rush starts getting home that offense is going to have a very long day keep golf clean golf's not amazing but he plays so much better when he's not getting pressure so much better

the bills don't blitz a lot because they trust that front four to get pressure and i mean thank like thankfully for detroit if you're if you're rooting for detroit this weekend their strength of their offensive line is on the edge taylor decker and pennies Sewell and the strength of the Buffalo Bill's defensive line is guys coming off the edge. They're without Rousseau this week, most likely. He hasn't practiced the last two days.

It doesn't look likely he'll be back. But you still have to go up against Von Miller. You still have Boogie Basham in there. They've got a good stable of outside rushers and they'll keep the pedal to the metal. But the lines have two guys that can

go toe to toe with those guys. That's true. And then the last thing for me. And then real quick, speaking to the Josh Allen thing, listen, he's got the fifth worst passerating over the last four weeks. And it hasn't been good. Four touchdowns, six interceptions, the 74 passerating. Honestly, where he's been most effective is with his legs.

He has 12 squirrels for 159 yards in the last four weeks. Exactly. Because he realizes it's off with the passing. It's not all the way there. He's 60 and a half percent completion percentage over the past four weeks. It's been tough sledding for him. I mean, the names that are around him are Zach Wilson, Kenny Pickett, Davis Mills, and Taylor Heineke. Oh, my God.

That's brutal. Those are the names that are around him. If you, like, sort by passerating over the last four weeks, it hasn't been good. Again, blood is in the water for the lions. Yeah. All right. The third key. Third thing is just they cannot afford to turn the ball over.

The Lions, that is. The Lions cannot afford to turn it. I mean, honestly, both teams can't afford to turn it over. So I'll say that's a key for both teams. Yeah, it's a key for it. I mean, it is, but it more so is with the Lions because they don't, they're not a talented enough team to get many Mulligans. Right.

You know? Right. And, you know, there's a lot of high-powered offenses that can't overcome turnovers. I don't think the Lions are there yet. They've had glimpses of it this season. but they're not there yet and the bills will take advantage of turnovers they will score points off them so yes it's very important to not give the bills layups in this game because like there is a talent discrepancy the bills are a much more talented team than Detroit like everyone's comfortable

saying that that's why the line that when it opened was 10 minus 10 for the bills it's sitting at minus 9 right now yeah so it's moved a little but not not enough no so the bills are a more talented team you can't give them layups so while there is blood in the water where you're you You still have to play disciplined football and take care of yourself. And that's the, yeah, the bill's past defense is very good. It was probably the best past defense last year. And they're playing, they're playing well this year so far. I don't think it's been up to last year's standards.

They have been without Micahideus White hasn't come back. You know, they've had some injuries on the back. Poir. Poirer missed some time. He's back. But, you know, they've had some injuries here. there. But still, they force, you know, they're tied for the league. They're the lead league in interception so far this year. They only, they've only given up 6.8 yards per attempt

over the course of this season. They, they've only given up an 80.4 pass rating. Like, this team is predicated on giving their offense a ton of opportunities because of how good their defense is. And that, like you said, that's where Detroit is going to have to be smart is take your chances when it's there. But if it's not, take what's given to you. Don't force the ball in there. Don't try and be a hero.

Don't just don't make the dumb mistake that they want you to make to flip the game. For sure. For the bills, Steve, I mentioned the turnovers, but the first thing they think they have to do, and I would do it right away, even with

the elbow issue, is I would test Detroit's deep pass coverage. you really didn't see the Giants do it. I mean, when you look at the stats from the Giants Detroit game, it looks like it favors the Giants in a lot of statistical categories, like total yards, time of possession. But a lot of that was garbage time. The lines kind of sunk into this deep, soft zone, the whole second half.

And Daniel Jones had like 120 yards in the fourth quarter when it meant absolutely nothing. Yeah. So they didn't really try to take advantage, Because Detroit's been bad giving up big plays this year. They've given up a ton of big plays. So if I'm Buffalo, I'm coming out and I am trying to put them in a deficit right away. Because if you take the game script away from Detroit, that makes things a lot harder for them.

Because they're not going to complete go balls. They really do rely on that run game to keep the chains moving. If you give them a negative game script, it dramatically affects what they're able to do, in my opinion. So I would come out throwing deep right away. I'd look for Gabe Davis. I try to get Gabe Davis on double move. I try to hit Stefan Diggs. Acuda's going to miss this game, Steve.

So, like, they don't have their number one shutdown corner. I would exploit the heck out of that. Yeah. I would go for it. I would so much so that I'm okay with a couple punts early in the game to try to hit these balls. Like, if you end up, you know, throwing incompletions, like, I want to put Detroit in a deficit immediately. And I want to make them doubt their ability to cover on the back end.

Yeah. Because when you've seen that doubt creep in, that's when the seams. come apart for the Lions. Yep. That coverage unit, they stop trusting each other. They start playing hero ball. They start taking chances they shouldn't take. And they start busting stuff.

I would for sure make it an emphasis to be aggressive if I'm Buffalo. Yep. Just go go after it. I think that's their big key to win. I also think it is keeping Josh Allen clean in the pocket. The Buffalo Bills have not had the best offensive line this year. I mean, that's just what it comes on to. It hasn't been great.

They've started decent. It's kind of progressively gotten worse and worse. Right. You know, their bottom 10 in QB pressure rate in the NFL. They give up pressure on 32% of their snaps. And blitz, QB pressure on a blitz rate is about 35%. So they do pretty well against the blitz. But overall, I think the key to the game is keeping Josh Allen clean

because that's where Detroit has won. the last couple weeks is by getting pressure and making the quarterback uncomfortable and, you know, just putting the quarterback in conflict, that's what has really vaulted them to playing well these last couple weeks, is they haven't, they didn't let Rogers or Fields or Jones get comfortable at any point in the game. Yeah. And like you just see it. As the game progresses, if you keep the pressure on, they start to get a little bit of happy feet.

fields and Jones and Allen they all will move around a lot Alan will it seems like in the last couple weeks he's definitely quicker to take off which I think benefits it could benefit the bills a little bit just because of how not great the Lions have been against scrambling quarterbacks on non-designed quarterback runs the Lions have gotten gashed over the course of the season I think they've giving up the most yards on scrambles in the NFL, and I think they give up, like, the highest or highest yards per scramble against them. So that's something that Josh Allen can utilize. But if they can, if they can keep the pocket clean and they can let Josh Allen kind of go through his reads,

go through his progressions, utilize the run because of coverage or because he sees an opening and not because he has to. I think that is where I think that's a huge key for the Buffalo Bills this week. It's just keeping that Detroit defensive line off of Josh Allen, which is going to be tough because they are going to be missing Mitch Morse and Ali McNeil is coming off the best game of his career. And so, you know, it's funny because in this game, I think that there's,

the ability for the bills to blow the completely blow the Detroit Lions out like where the bill's strengths are is kind of where the Lions weaknesses are but some of the Bill's weaknesses line up directly with what Detroit wants its strengths to be that's true so it overall it's it's it's fun for everybody because this is the first year in a while where I think people are actually interested in watching a Detroit Lions Thanksgiving game it doesn't feel like it doesn't feel like a punishment that's handed down from the NFL onto us NFL fans of like oh god we have to watch the lions on Thanksgiving like what a bummer throw it like I'll just plan my nap like this is actually an interesting game between two very interesting teams yep uh man I'm

it's gonna be a tough watch because like I'm gonna be on the edge of my seat the whole game I'm gonna it's gonna there hasn't been a Thanksgiving day game game game I've cared about in a while. No. I remember the last one I cared about was when Detroit played Houston two years ago. And I only cared about that game because I wanted Houston just to absolutely annihilate them so Patricia could get fired. And that's exactly what happened. But man.

Oh, we should move on. New England, Minnesota. If you had to pick, if you had to pick a winner, Buffalo or Detroit. I'm going to go, I'm going to go Detroit. I'm riding the hot hand here. I like, I'm going to go Buffalo. Yeah, I figured you would. I'm going to go, I just, I can't confidently pick Detroit right now until, and I hope that,

I hope they win, obviously, as a fan, but as an impartial evaluator, I can't pick against the bills because I think that Josh Allen is going to rush for 100 yards on scrambles. And I just think that their offense is going to be too multiple, and they're just going to wear down that secondary. I think that secondary is young. and I think Josh Allen will capitalize on a couple of mistakes. Yep, I, you know, I don't feel good about it. I don't feel good about it, but I'm just going to ride the hot hand.

I think there's enough, even like from an unbiased standpoint, there's enough things that have favored Detroit coming to this game that I think, I just think they're going to pull it off. Yeah, I will say, I will say that I do, I think Detroit covers a spread easily. Okay. I already got a ticket at minus 10. Nice. Like right, right when it's,

dropped. So I'm not going to bet the money line, full disclosure. I do think Detroit wins. I'm not that confident. So I'm going to, I'm comfortable with my minus 10. Yeah, I, um, I don't think it's homerism at all to think that the lions have a very real chance to win this game. Well, apparently Vegas thinks I'm an idiot. So well, you know, and who knows? They could be proven right and the Buffalo Bills could win by 17 points. Yeah. But it'll be if either way, has excitement you're excited to watch the first game on like the first game that shows on Thanksgiving you're not just waiting for the Dallas game or the game that comes later it's exciting that like right away it's a game that is going to be loud it's going to be fun to watch and it has

two teams that are going to be in at least in some sort of conversation going forward the rest of the year hopefully I mean the lines could easily fade away but the bills for sure I think that this is a good this is a good time for them to get things turned around and start to push forward into the playoffs. Agreed. All right, let's, yeah, let's do. New York Giants. Yeah, Giants Cowboys.

I mixed them up. Dallas Cowboys, 430. Second game. Cowboys, obviously coming off of a throttling of the Minnesota Vikings, the Giants, we just talked about it, coming off a lackluster performance against the Detroit Lions. the questions that everybody has had about New York shined through in that game.

We had said, I think, us and every other national pundit, we've all been kind of waiting for that floor to drop out for them. We've been waiting for like, all right, this has to give at some point. And it kind of did. I think that it was more the Detroit Lions beating the Giants than it was the Giants beating themselves. Yeah.

Which I think is a good thing for the Giants, in my opinion. But what are the three keys for the Giants to win this game against the Cowboys? I don't really know, man. I don't, I kind of think this is going to be a continuation of Vikings Cowboys. Oh, you think it's just going to roll right into. It's probably going to, you can't expect any game to be that ugly. Right. But I do think the Cowboys probably win this, you know, relatively easy.

I just think they match up so well. Like the Giants want to establish that run game with Barclay. They want to put you in conflict with, you know, with Janiel Jones on the read option stuff. Some design QB runs as well. But Dallas is so talented up front. I just don't see that really working. You know, I don't, I see Micah Parsons just being a monster in this game to Marcus Lawrence. I don't know.

I don't really see a way the Giants get moving on offense to make this a game. If Detroit can shut them down, then Dallas should be able to legitimately minimize what they do very effectively. I think that there's really only one key to this game, and it's Daniel Jones bouncing back. For the Giants to win, what we saw from Daniel Jones was a little bit. of the Daniel Jones that we had seen in years prior. The like, you know, turning the, turning the ball over a little bit more like that, that throw where he was intercepted by Aiden Hutchinson was not a smart throw. And those are the throws he had been avoiding all year. Like he was one of the least turnover, I think one of the least turnover prone quarterbacks in the NFL this year.

And if he's reverting. back to being more a little bit more turnover prone than the lions are like are in trouble. But if he can if he can flip it back and play smart football, they have a chance. I think it really just comes down to Daniel Jones playing turn over free football. And then like you said, getting Barkley established in the game because holy cow did that offense look completely listless. without the pop that Barclay adds to that to the offense. Yep. Like that offense, that offense goes as Daniel Jones and Barclay go.

And I mean that by their run game. I think that everything is set up by that run game pushing forward. And if they can't get it established again, it's done. And because you don't want Daniel Jones being the guy that, like, he has to just drop back and pick apart the defense because you couldn't do it against Detroit. I promise you that Dallas is going to make things really difficult for him if the game turns into that. Yeah. I mean, you.

I mean, the Giants are the second worst offensive line in the NFL this year so far. It's crazy because Andrew Thomas has played out of his mind. But other than that, it's been bad. Yeah. And then Evan Neal was playing well also. But that interior of that. I think he's been okay. I think Neil's been good for a rookie.

but he's still having a lot of a lot of issues here and there so yeah so i mean they've 37% pressure rate and that's you know and dallas has to be licking their chops because mic apart like the joy of having mic apartes is you can move them all around and they can create pressure from a different a bunch of different angles yep and that no i i i you summarize this game very well i don't i don't even know Yeah, and then, yeah, the key for Dallas is keep your offense on task. That, like, that's all it is. Just keep it on task, keep it moving.

And then pressure Daniel Jones, put him in conflict, make him, make him be the one that beats you with his arm. Don't give him chances with his legs. Don't let him get the run established. Get them into second, third and long, make Daniel Jones drop back. and, you know, create a couple turnovers. And I think they will. I agree with you.

I think Dallas wins this game pretty comfortably, which if I know anything about this NFL season means that New York's going to win. But I still think that Dallas wins this game pretty comfortably. Nice. Yeah, for, I really only thought I have left is cowboys just need to play their game, you know? Yeah.

Beast out on defense, you know, make sure you're getting Pollard involved and not just Zique. Dax's going to be efficient throwing it. We know that. Yeah. Play your game. Don't get out of your wheelhouse. That's how Dallas loses this game is they get enamored with running the ball with

Zeke and they start pounding it up the middle with him. Dexter Lawrence starts to have a really good day. Like plugs that run up. Then, you know, because the Giants defense is very, they're good at containing. Like they're not really good at. one thing. But what they are good at is for like shutting down the run and then forcing you to be one dimensional and then being able to just like drop eight guys and then get a little bit of some pressure with like with their interior defensive lineman in Williams and Lawrence. And so

that's that's how Dallas loses this game is they get to reliant on Zieg on first and second down. They start getting themselves into third and longs and the the giant's defense is able to just drop back and sit in a zone and, you know, make some plays here and there. Yep. But I think that Tony Pollard has emerged enough that they hopefully won't fall into that trend too much of just pounding Zieg into the middle. I traded him in two dynasty leagues recently, like before Zeek's injury. And it just looks terrible for me now.

I kind of gave up hope that they would ever go to him as the main guy, and now he's just, he's been tearing it up. It's crazy. Tearing it up. Heavy quotations around that, in my opinion. Because, like,

he's putting up good fantasy points, but if you're watching the games, there's no way you come away with. Ezekiel Elliott is tearing up defenses. No, no, Tony Pollard. Oh, Tony Pollard. Yeah.

Oh, I thought you said Elliot. Yeah, Tony Pollard. Oh, my goodness. like complete game breaker. Since week seven, actually. So I traded him in two leagues in week five. Since week seven, basically since I traded him, he is number two in total fantasy points.

Yep. And he is number one in average per game. Got a lot. By a lot. So yeah, it's hilarious. George Costanzas had once a, again. Happens

the best of us. All right. The nightcap of the Thanksgiving day when everyone's really sleepy and tired from all the good food and carb overload that they've had is New England being hosted by the Minnesota Vikings.

This game's fascinating to me. I agree. It's fun. It's just a fun matchup in a weird way. Yeah. because what is new england a very very good defensive football team with their defense has been nothing short of amazing this year yeah every step of the way i love i love watching their defense

the way that bill belichick deploys douger and phillips and judan and bentley just they're just so long and they're they've moved fast and they're they're fucking to watch. I really think that this is, this is everything, this is everything the, uh, Bill Belichick has wanted in the defense the last couple of years. And I think he's finally getting the full form of what he's wanted since, uh, really says Brady left. Yeah. It's just their offense, man. Bro, their defense though, Steve, they've given up 20 or less points in seven of 10 games. Yeah.

And recently it's been even crazier. 1733. I mean, they shut out the Detroit Lions who... They did. They were the best offensive team in the league when they did it. They've scored 30 points five times this year. It's not a fluke anymore. They're one of the top...

They're one of the top seven to nine offenses in the NFL, and the Patriots completely blanked them. It wasn't even close. They embarrassed. the lines were coming off of a 45 point loss. Yes. And then the Patriots blanked them. That's insane.

Again. Bill Check is a, he's a defensive mastermind. Yes. I mean, over the entire season, New England is giving up 55.7% completion percentage, 6.6 yards per attempt. They've, they have 11 interceptions, minus 4.5% completion percentage over expect.

expectation. They just, they just shut teams down. They just had, like, Belichick just has a system. He uses it. He has his players in there. And I think, like I said, these are some of the best players he's had in there. Like, non-corner guys, some of the best, like, safeties he's had since, like, young Patrick Chong and having, like, young McCordy in there.

Like, Dugger is the, like, the full evolution of a Belichick. safety. Which we totally knew was going to happen when they drafted him, right? I mean, it was it not like the most obvious thing in the world when you saw his athletic profile and his size and you just knew right away that Belichick was going to turn him into a very viable, very productive player. And sure enough, like, he started to emerge last year, but I think that this year has really been his, um, has really been his coming out party fully.

Jack Joel. dude the rookie corner has been outrageously good so good they just they're suffocating defense they play you know they play about 50 50 man zone and they're good at both and jimmy matthew judon has been an absolute terror this year he's getting to the quarterback like almost every game he's he's getting the quarterback at least once and he's he's looked just unstubed not unstoppable off the edge at times. It's just a really good, it's just a really good, really sound defense. And these are the defenses that can beat Kirk Johnson.

They are. And they just got Zach Wilson benched, breaking news. Zach Wilson has been benched by the New York Jets. Which isn't surprised. Like, you had to know that it was going to be the New England Patriots that were going to break him completely. Yeah. Well, especially when, like, you have multiple receivers now that have

own fits in that locker room. Yeah. It started with Elijah Moore and then Garrett Wilson. Yeah. I mean, you had to know something was amiss there. But yeah, the Patriots were the ones that finally broke him. He has been benched. Does that mean Flacco is the starter?

I think it's up in the air between Flacco and Mike White. I don't think that there's been a decision made either way. But the... Yeah, the Patriots on the flip side looked just as bad as the Jets on offense on Sunday. Like, they are not coming into this game flying high or anything. They're coming to this game, you know, limping in a way on offense. Mack Jones has been next level bad this year. Yes, he has.

It's partly because of him, but I think it's also partly because of the rocket scientist behind the plays is not helping him in any way. I would for sure say that has more to do with it than anything else. But it's just, I mean, he's completed 68% of his passes so far this year, but he has only four touchdowns of seven interceptions. His turnover worthy throw rate is at 5% this year. it's just it's been tough sledding for him I mean what's his highlight throw rate Ben

his uh or wild throw sorry 3.6% so was that middle of the pack yeah right it's probably like lower lower middle like yeah yeah he's he's been well the offense just been so out of sync so they can't find a rhythm when they can't get the run game going they just seem to fall

apart at the seams yes so It doesn't help that they have a collection of receivers that are all just me. I think Jacoby Myers is a very good number two slash number three even. It's like a possession chain mover type guy, you know, good slot receiver. But they don't have any dynamic. Devante Parker's not, yeah, they don't have any dudes. Devante Parker's not a dude anymore.

He's pretty good. They need a true number one though. They really need Thornton to step up and be that big play guy. but he's, you know, had trouble staying healthy. And Belichick doesn't really trust him yet, it seems. And they really need that speed on the field, though. That would really open up a lot of things for them. Yeah, the keys to this is, like you said, for Minnesota, it's shutting down the run.

If you can shut down Harris and Stevenson and make Mack Jones beat you, you're probably going to win the game. Yep. Minnesota's defense has been kind of weird. like they'll they win games they make plays when they need to but they do give up a decent amount of yards and they have pretty much over the course of the season in no way shape or form have they been a shutdown defense correct they they have been good at getting pressures and areas smith is despite despite what brett thought preseason he's having a he's having a productive

yeah stop it he's having a productive season um Patrick Peterson is playing well he's playing okay he's taking he's getting opportunities he's taking advantage of opportunities but what did you say Patrick Peterson oh yeah I think that he's had a you know for for his age and I think that we all kind of thought he was on the downward trajectory he's had a little bit of a bounce back here this year um but it just comes down to Mac Jones is going to give you a couple opportunities like that's just what it comes down to he's given every defense a opportunities all season. Can

Minnesota capitalize on those opportunities and can they make New England be one-dimensional by shutting down that run early? Does Zadarius Smith still lead the league in sacks? No, no, Judon does. Zadarius is number two, I think, right? 10 and a half, I believe, last I checked. I'll look that up, you keep going.

I know. So the difference between Zadarius and Judon, too, is like Judon, they scheme him up for a lot of his sacks. He gets a lot, like a ton of unblocked pressures and cleanup sacks. Zadariah Smith is actually beating dudes one-on-one, which I literally said that he can't, he's not capable of doing that. Yeah, it apparently is. Judon leads the NFL with 13 sacks.

Zadarius Smith is fourth with a nine and a half. So if I had to guess, Steve, I don't have the numbers in front of me because we're sort of back charting passers pass pro. But I would say Judon is probably a sub 20% win rate guy. Like they scheme him up so much to get free. Yeah. Kind of like how Baltimore used him. And similar to how Baltimore also used Zadaria Smith.

Zadaria Smith in Green Bay was used very similarly to how he was used in Baltimore, where they scheme him up a lot. Yeah. Well, Minnesota's not doing that. They're letting him just go one-on-one with tackles and he's winning. I would say Judon's probably a sub-20. 20% win rate guy. Zadarius is probably a near 25% win rate guy. Very different in how they get their sacks.

But the Smith is like awesome this year. I eat crow on that, like lots of it. Instead of turkey tomorrow, I'm eating crow. Gross. But that can be problematic, though. When you have a pass rush like Daniel Hunter and Zadarius Smith, like Joe, like you said, Jones is going to give you a ball, whether it's a fumble in the pocket or a Yolo, who cares, throw it down the field ball.

Yeah. And then Patricia's brain's going to explode on the sideline. It's going to be funny to watch. But that's what they have to do is keep Jones clean. The more clean they keep him, the less the chance he does something stupid. This very, I mean, this very easily could be a 10 to 7 game. Oh, I know. It could be great.

Belichick, I mean, if there's someone that Belichick, I feel like, can definitely scheme up to give hell is Kirk Cousins. Oh, for sure. And hey, what I, that we didn't even talk about, it's a prime time game. Oh, yeah. You have to factor that in. We have to totally factor that in with the Vikings. It's a prime time 830 game.

All the guys of the country are going to be on this game. And yeah, like, couple that with the fact that Belichick absolutely will have a game plan for Cuck Sons. It could be a, it could be a really tough day for for Kirk Cousins, but at the end of it, I trust Minnesota and their weapons to make enough plays despite Kurt Cousins. What weapons? Justin Jefferson. What is Belichick, what is he the best ever at doing? I mean, he's the best of taking away, number one receivers.

He'll take away Jefferson. But I think Jefferson, but I think that he'll have one good. he'll have one game breaking play, I think. And that'll be the difference because the Patriots are going to get no break in. The Patriots are going to get none of those plays. That's fair. There's a real chance that the Patriots could finish under, well, I don't know. I just, the Minnesota defense isn't that good.

But they could finish under 200 yards of offense because I just, the Patriots defense, our offense has just gotten worse. It just keeps getting worse. It's been hilarious, Minnesota pepper T.J. Hawkinson, the football, for like little to no result. They are really trying to get their value out of it. He's averaging like less than seven yards to catch on Minnesota. I'm like insane volume. I went back, I went back.

I went back and rewatch the or started rewatching that Minnesota Dallas game and then, you know, boom, first red zone possession, two targets in a row to T.J. Hawkinson, both of which should have been caught. One of which was in the end zone. The other was a yard outside the end zone. And he just both of them went right through his hands. You know, he was a little bit. It wasn't perfect. It wasn't tight coverage. He had a step on him. And it just went right through his hands. TJ, no, no way. I just, I, like, are they doing this to just, just, figure out right here right now are we resigning him and they're or what like i don't i don't get their

total reliance on trying to push him the ball i i don't either man it it's it truly has been hilarious i'm not saying that to be funny it's been it's been actually funny watching them watching kirk target hit like he had four more targets than justin jefferson did in the dallas game yeah i do not care who is covering jason jefferson T.J. Hockinson should never have a single game, unless you're playing the Arizona Cardinals, maybe, who can't cover tight-ins. He shouldn't have a single game where he's getting more targets than Justin Jefferson. It just shouldn't happen. I mean, T.J. Hock, like, if anything, he should be there to be a distraction from Justin Jefferson, you should be using him to get Justin Jefferson open.

It won't ever work that way, though. It's the other way around. I know it is, but it shouldn't be. Jefferson, Jefferson will pull coverage away from everybody else. Which is, that's what makes Hawkinson's lack of production on insane volume more funny. Yeah. It's not like they're committing any resources to stopping him. He basically just stops himself. Oh, Hawk.

Yeah, I don't know. Who are you taking this game? You taking Minnesota? I'm taking Minnesota. I can't, and I can't confidently rest anything. on the back of Mac Jones and Matt Patricia. I just can't do it. I'm going to take the Vikings again, even though I don't want to.

But although it would be nice to see Patricia get like just Throttled. Just destroyed. Yeah. Give me like four. I'd love to see the Patriots put up three points again. Four turnovers. Yeah.

There's nothing work. Yeah. I just, yeah. I think that I do think it's going to be a defensive. battle. I think it's going to be kind of a slog. I think it'll be fun because I think that there will be turnovers. I think that it'll be kind of an exciting defensive battle. It'll almost probably be comical at points. But I still think that like I still think Minnesota probably pulls us out in like a 14 to 10, 14, 17. 17. I don't think either team scores over 20 points in this

game. Grody. Watch it be an absolute barn right. Watch Mac Jones throw for five touchdowns. Well, that'd be funny. It'd be fitting. It'd be fitting because, again,

there's just nothing about this season makes sense. It's just so, so much randomness this year. It's fun, but it makes for predicting things impossible. Yep. All right, Steve. Well, we've got to wrap this. You know, we've, we've set out, we've done what we set out to do. We've had a very good discussion about food.

We came, we saw, we conquered. Yes. So, but we are, since it is the gratitude season, we are very thankful for all the listeners. Yes. And all the support we've got as we've endeavored into this podcast journey. So thank you all so much. Enjoy your holiday this week. eat some good food, watch some good football.

And we'll be with you guys next week. We're going to take Friday off, but we'll be with you guys next week. Enjoy. And everyone stay safe as you're commuting to your family parties as well. I am Bro. We're host. This is Stephen Arorick, my host, and we are out. Thanks for tuning in to this edition of the Fantasy Points Podcast. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review on your favorite platform.

and come join the roster at FantasyPoints.com.