Fantasy Football Daily - 2023 NFL Draft Class Vibe Check with John Hansen | On the Clock! NFL Draft Podcast

Episode Date: April 14, 2023

NFL Draft prospects are analyzed and measured by every metric you can think of. But they still don't have a formula for vibes! One of John Hansen's (@Fantasy_Guru) most popular articles every year is his Good Vibes/Bad Vibes report. So Brett Whitefield (@BGWhitefield) decided to adapt that for today's show, discussing the vibes on incoming rookies with John. BRETT WHITEFIELD'S 2023 NFL DRAFT PROSPECT GUIDE IS FREE TO READ WITH A NO-CHARGE LOGIN AT FANTASY POINTS. Interested in playing Best Ball in 2023? There's no better place than Underdog Fantasy. Use our code FANTASYPTS to sign up for a new account at Underdog, and not only will you get a 100% deposit match up to $100... but you'll get a Fantasy Points Standard subscription for only $5! https://www.fantasypoints.com/underdog --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's time to the Fantasy Points podcast brought to you by FantasyPoint.com. Top level fantasy football and NFL betting analysis from every perspective and angle, from numbers to the film room with a single goal to help you score more fantasy points. Welcome into another episode of On the Clock. I am your host, Brett Whitefield. And today we have the guest of all guests. As you know, we've had a pretty star-studded guest. lineup so far on this podcast, but today we are joined by the guru himself. My boss, Mr. John

Hansen, welcome to the show, sir. Brett, what's up? Great to be here. This is actually the first time you and I have done a pod, but we have hung out at the Senior Bowl, for example, the Canton, Ohio thing, or maybe that was the FSGA thing, yeah, in Detroit. So it didn't take me long, by the way, to get a good feel for you. I'm like, wow, this guy may not be. be like a fantasy guy per se, but you are, you, you sweat football. And it's just so obvious. And I've been on this for 20 years. Like, I'm not really a stat nerd. I was a C math student. So I started out as a football fan. So I always gravitate toward the football end of things. So that's why I love what you're doing with us here at fantasypoints.com. Awesome. Thanks for the kind words. John, I've been eager to

have you on the pod because, you know, I'm sitting here grinding the tape. I've watched over 200 prospects now. I do this every year. And the harsh reality of scouting football players, John, is like, I can't get into their brains. For a lot of guys, what makes or break them at the NFL level isn't necessarily skills, right? It's what's going on between the years. It's their mental makeup. It's their discipline. It's their work ethic. Things that are really, really hard to quantify, especially for me with a data background, it's like, like, I have honestly know. idea sometimes and you have had a tremendous track record of pegging guys that have that mental makeup to succeed in the NFL. So I just kind of wanted to talk to you a little bit about it,

pick your brain, hear some cool stories from you. How do you get guys to pass the vibe check, so to speak? Yeah. Well, first let me start by saying, I'll go to the combine, already equipped with information on these guys. So I'm not like basing all my opinion on all this guy was an a hole, You know, so it's a little bit of the final piece of the puzzle. And, you know, that's my strength, really, is, you know, reading people and making evaluations on, you know, my interactions with people. I'll give you an example, Brett. I am a 54-year-old man. I have had one girlfriend in my entire life.

I started dating a girl in when I was literally just turned 18. I, you know, dated girls in high school, but nothing's, no relationship. No going steady or nothing. And, you know, I met a girl and, you know, I added up all the information. You know, I ran my algorithm in my head. I'm like, this is it, you know, never going to top it. And guess what? 36 years later, haven't topped it.

Great wife, a mother of four. She's better looking than Jennifer Aniston right now at 52 years old. So I think that's a pretty good example here. And I've been saying this with my guy, Adam Kaplan, for a long time. And 15 years ago, he made fun of me. He would be like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm going up there and I'm, you know, interacting with these dudes, getting a vibe for the maturity, the commitment.

And he's like, you're crazy. You don't know what the hell you're doing. And then fast forward, 10, 15 years later, oh, guess what? NFL teams are doing the exact same thing, you know, studying body language and things like that. So, I mean, I'll give you, I mean, I can go all over the place here and give you all kinds of examples. But I'll give you one example. 2005, my first combine. I'm actually very good friends with a relative of Ryan Fitzpatrick.

So I go there to the combine. And, you know, Aaron Rogers is at the podium and Alex Smith. And here's poor old Fitz. He's got crickets. You know what I mean? Like no one's there. He's a quarterback from Harvard. So I went and talked to him.

I'm like, oh, my God. It's like talking to a 38-year-old man. I felt like he was more mature than I was. he was incredibly intelligent, old soul type of guy. And I'm like, obviously smart. He went to Harvard. I'm like, this guy's pretty good. You know, and then he came out for the Rams that year and initially did really well.

And obviously, the rest is history. But, you know, it's just a vibe thing. I'll give you another example. You're Detroit-based. Now, I ended up liking this guy toward the end of his career, but I'm up there studying Eric Ebron at the podium. And I'm like, this guy, I understand. these guys are confident. I mean, you don't want to suppress a guy's confidence, but there's a fine

line there. You know, I just thought he was a little arrogant, a little overly confident, didn't really feel like he was putting good vibes out there and all that. And, well, I think the career kind of illustrated that. So, yeah, I just try and chop it up with these guys. Last year, we were at the Senior Bowl. You and I, you were there, and I didn't know you were there, but we were there. And I watch Rashad White and I'm like I don't watch a ton of college football I don't know anything about Rashad White really at this point so I'm starting my process if you will I'm like yeah this guy's pretty good you know like hands are unbelievable like got a little shake and bake you know for a bigger guy and you know pretty good in goal line you know work so I requested an interview with them they bring

them over I'm like this guy is the greatest guy of all time like this guy worked his way through Juco. So he's not entitled. He paid his way through junior college. So not entitled, hard worker, another old soul, great guy, you know, him and I chopped it up real well. And so he was my guy. I look at other analysts. They're like pre-drafted ranking him RB 17, 18. I'm like, I don't know, I got him at three. And boom. I mean, there's no coincidence that he was able to walk into that situation there in a veteran team with Tom Brady and do pretty damn well. He ran. He ran better than Leonard Fournette. There's no coincidence between him being an outstanding human being and him being able to do well at football right away. That's fantastic. I have a similar

story with Jalen Hertz. Not to cut you off, but I barely interacted with him, but I stood in a little mini circle with him at that combine. And I, anybody listening who heard me on the radio three years ago back me, I was blown away by just what he exuded. The poise, the composure, the maturity, the leadership was incredible. I'm like, all I said was, I don't know if he's ever going to learn how to read a defense and all that good stuff, but I'll go to battle with that guy every day. Exactly. I mean, when I talked to him, John, I had some brief moments with him the year he was coming out down at the senior bowl. And I remember, you know, the, the players breakfast they do or whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. I was there talking with him. That's early in the morning. It's like 7.30. And in my conversation with him, he kind of lets it slip that he had just got done working out. Yeah. And I was like, bro, it's 7.30.

What do you mean you just got done? Yep. He's like, I was up at 6 o'clock. He's different. He's different. And I was like, and you're doing this breakfast. Then you're going to go do practice. And then you're going to go do interviews all day.

Like the guy is just wired different. Like that work ethic. So I immediately knew just from five minutes of conversations. with her it's like i know he's raw but i'm betting on this guy to be successful because he has the the makeup to go after it and do the the the it quality or the what quality or the that quality whatever the hell it is it's an intangible that you can't really wrap your head around completely but it's it's kind of there if you see it and by the way and maybe i'm getting a little lucky here but probably not you know i've been around a little while here um worst vibe ever at the

Combine and I said it at the time, Darius Geis, how'd that go? And he was a baller, by the way, as you recall. Right. Yeah, I think he played, was he one and done or did he get a second season? I think he was one and done and then he tore his ACL. Now, I will say, it doesn't always work. Here's an example of a guy I thought was one of the most outstanding individuals

I've ever interacted with. And I've had a million of them. Amir Abdullah. But then again, here he is freaking 10, 12 years later. are still in the NFL, so there's something to it. Yeah, he's had a, you know, he's broke all the, I guess, the myths about running back, you know, lifespan. I mean, gosh, he's had a tremendously long career.

Now, granted, he hasn't had a ton of work on his life. Right, exactly. I mean, he's never been that guy. He underwhelmed, but again, there, I think, is a correlation between what I got out of him and the fact that the guy's been able to string together like 10 consecutive years with employment in the NFL. A couple of other recent examples. I love Debo Samuel.

Like, that was my guy that year. Michael Pittman was another great one. Again, on the negative side, and I have some good ones from this year. My favorite tight end of the last maybe three, four years, and he wasn't going to be a high pick. And again, this speaks to life getting in the way. I think he had some mental health issues, perhaps. But I just thought he was a great dude. And I loved his tape.

Jay Sternberger. It's not always going to work out. but I thought that kid was an absolute baller at Texas A&M and a great kid and all that. But sometimes these guys are almost too nice because I remember interviewing Derek Carr. And I'm like, what a great guy. I'm like, you know what? He's almost too nice. You know, sometimes you want these quarterbacks to be a-holes.

Yeah, I mean, I think we're seeing that a little bit with Malik Willis, John. Like he's a guy I spent some time with last year as well. And I was blown away by him the similar way I was hurt. And, you know, everything you hear, there's a lot of NFL teams that just don't buy it. They're like, he's like too nice. He's too. I've heard, I've heard people say he's too happy. Like what?

Is there such thing as too happy? Too happy. Yeah, I guess when you need to wield some aggression to be a successful player, maybe. Maybe. I don't know. But, you know, that's one where vibe checks passed. And it seems like he's already fallen out of favor in Tennessee just a year after he was drafted. Yeah, yeah.

It's kind of like Teddy Bridgewater being kind of too nice or like soft-spoken. You know, that did kind of play out, you know. Oh, oh, I'm forgetting probably one of the best examples of all time. Me and Mike Clay, I'm most of these interviews I do solo, but I remember one year they paired me with Mike Clay. And basically the top quarterbacks and skill players come off the podium at the combine. And then they go to NFL radio. And we get a little bit of the cast off. So, whatever year that was, 2018, you know, the Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, they're like, oh, Hanson, you'll do this job.

Josh Allen guy, you know? And I said right after the interview and I said it all that year and I've repeated it once in a while just so people, you know, get some context. I said, I have interviewed probably 150 players at this combine. I have never met a player more inclined to get it done, more motivated to prove the doubt is wrong to get to work. It was unbelievable. I was like, damn, dude, like you want to go out there?

like right now. I mean, you haven't even been drafted yet. He's like, yeah. And once again, that completely played out. And I think Josh Allen, the reason he was able to clean up those mechanics and really come into his own was he took to coaching because, again, he was willing to do anything whatever to be great. And that's why he's great. Yeah, Alan's a great one because I was, I was like a noted Josh Allen Hater when he was coming out, just based on tape, you know, not anything to do with that. Of course, because the tape wasn't great. But again, this is the value of interacting with these guys a little bit, I got the vibe that, again, he'll do whatever it takes. And I thought Brian Dayball, you know, Dayball's a good coach. So I feel like he's going to

take the coaching and the rest is history. Absolutely. All right, John, let's pivot to this year. I know you spent some time talking to certain players and this class. You got guys that are passing your vibe check for this year, guys that you think just based on personality alone, have a better chance to be successful? Well, first, we'll start a quarterback. And while I have heard some rumblings of a couple shaky interviews for Anthony Richardson, I just have a really good vibe on him. And I've gotten, you know, I've been around superstar types. And he's not really arrived totally, I guess. So we'll see. But I really got a good vibe from him. A pretty serious guy. you know, he's very close to his mother.

Another one of these dudes is like, I was at his podium. I didn't interact with him, but I observed. It's like, what's this guy? 35 years old? You know, very mature. So that would be the top guy. You know, Bryce Young definitely got a good vibe from him.

I just had a very brief interaction with him, but I got a special vibe from him. Strout, and again, I'm looking at the tape and all that. This is just in addition to the tape. Stroud looks kind of like a chill guy. He looks like a guy who's got amnesia. Like I don't think he'll ever get too high or too low, which is pretty good. Will Levis, though, worst vibe I've ever had for a quarterback in 30 years, bar none.

Oh, wow. Explain this. Just I stood there and he was getting interviewed by NFL Radio. And I had a moment. I'm like, let me go walk over. And I know the guys who were interviewing. I can't remember who it was. just the facial expressions and he was just all over the map in the interview.

Like I understand too that these guys, it's a job interview. So they've been coached up and all that. So you've got to read through that too. But I feel like Will Levis just he's going to be himself and that's fine. But himself, I did not get a good vibe. It's hard to articulate a little arrogant, a little cocky. Yeah, again, it's a fine line between being confident. in yourself and showing a little bit of humility.

And I found that the guys who struggle with that humility stuff, they don't really get it done here. I got basically like a Jay Cutler vibe. And by the way, I freaking loved Cutler coming out because his arm was unbelievable. He was so talented. But, you know, he's a surly dude. And, you know, it just didn't match, you know, with the NFL. I mean, he had some success.

But I feel like Jay Cutler should have done better. yeah Will Levis the minute I found out he put mayonnaise in his coffee he didn't pass the vibe check for me exactly oh you know what you laugh but how about the fact that he didn't go to the damn senior ball right that's see that's that's a little entitlement you know you're coming off a bad year granted the supporting cast was bad but you're coming off a bad year dude uh go to the senior bowl i mean justin herbert went to the senior bowl baker mayfield josh allen Jalen Hertz.

Kenny Pickett the year before. Yep. A lot of top QBs and draft classes have been to the senior bullet should not be looked at as a bad. By the way, I love Pickett last year, preseason. And, you know, I did interact with him a little bit.

He's from about 30 miles away from where I grew up in New Jersey. And there's a big argument in New Jersey because everyone says North Jersey and South Jersey. I'm like, oh, Kenny, you're from North Jersey or South Jersey? He said Central. I'm like, well, there's a Kacharian dude right there. Okay.

I got you. It doesn't exist, but I feel you, Kenny. And there you go. He's got to do a little bit better with the office coordinator, but Kenny Pickett, Jersey guy. So, you know, I'm a little bit of an apologist for Jersey guys, although I'm not an Isaiah Pacheco guy. Right on.

So what about running backs of receivers here? Yeah, yeah, yeah, real quick. Well, I love, love, love, Izzy Abanacanda. I mean, that guy, did you see his pro day, by the way, about 13 days ago? I did. Oh, my God. Are you kidding me? And I chopped it up with him.

He's a Nigerian. I love these Nigerians. They are, they're awesome. Like, they're really intelligent and they're tough. You know, and he actually grew up literally in the exact same neighborhood that I did in Brooklyn, New York, until I was eight years old. Of course, 35 years earlier, whatever the hell it was. But, you know, so I had that in common with him. But, yeah, he was great.

He was, you know, nothing in particular, but he was, he was an awesome interview. And I do love me some, is he. My favorite player. And again, I consider, you know, I consider everything, like where these guys are going off the board. I think I'd send you a text. I love these, like, the second tier guys, you know, like Debo was kind of a second tier guy. Michael Pittman, it was kind of a second tier guy. Tage Spears is my number one favorite.

favorite player. He was a good, good interview, not necessarily because he was like, you know, charismatic or bombastic, but I just loved how basically he described his game. And, you know, I told him, I said, well, if I ever have you on the show, on the radio show or anything during your career, I'm not going to ask you about a run because you have no idea what the hell happened because you're just out there reacting. He's a very reactionary player. I talk with him about how I, I got the same vibe and the same stuff from Ladani and Thomason when I interviewed him like 20 years earlier because he's out there like I'm reacting to color and it's all instinct and reaction. And, you know, Taj Spears is a guy who's considered to have great vision and spatial awareness.

None of that can be taught. It is just an inherent talent that he has and it shows and he tested pretty well. And I love me some Tajay Spears. Yeah, his instincts are off the chart. He also has his propensity to teleport on the field. I know it's that reactionary stuff you're talking about, but the play that kind of made him famous was a run where he's about 35 yards down field

and he's got three defenders closing on him and somehow he literally, like, it's almost like there's a gap in the film. Like the film cuts out for a second. When it pops back up, he's past all three guys. You're like, how the hell did that happen? He basically did the same thing at one of the practices you and I were watching down a moke.

Oh, God, yeah. Well, you know, it's funny to say that because he didn't run at the combine, and I'm like, is it perhaps because you fake that linebacker out of his jockstrap at the senior bowl? And he said, he laughed. And he said, maybe so. Yes. That's great. What about, what about Rushy Rice?

I know you talk to him. Oh, yeah. Great kid. Oh, amazing kid. And, you know, that's no guarantee, that he works, that it comes through. But he was awesome. Like, very pleasant guy. I gave him some quotes from you.

was like, oh yeah, he was laughing. What was the quote from you? It was all the time. It was too effective. Like, he's got that dog in him, but it was something else. What was it? He wants all the smoke all the time. Yeah, exactly. And he knew that phrase and that term, and he was all about it. But yeah, confident guy, not cocky at all. Seems to be very mature, really good. you know, just personality. I really liked them. It was kind of, kind of remind me a little bit of John Mechie.

John Mechie is, God, man, he's one of my favorites of all time. What a tremendous guy. Just one of the most friendly, welcoming personalities I've ever encountered. Rishie Rice was similar to that. A couple of other receivers that I interacted with at the Combine is so many of them. I did interact with Kays. Sean Bouté. And, you know, my vibe there is this guy's all over the place. You know, like, she's just kind of a train wreck. But, you know, that means, I guess he potentially could do well.

I mean, he's a, he's a wide range of possible outcome guy. But I tried to get him loose. I'm like, you've got to answer this question, the enunciation of your name. I'm like, we can go Bouté, we can go Bouti. We can, you know, we can work with this. You know what I mean? Just laughing. And I got crickets. So I'm like, that's a bad sign. That is a bad sign. He's taking himself a little too seriously. Yeah, exactly. The last time I got crickets, by the way, because I normally hit with these guys, Le Michael P. Ryan coming at me. I'm like, damn, dude, you do it way better with the hair than your cousin, Somage, bruh. And, you know, I thought that was funny because people tease Samaj about his being bald and crickets. I'm like, well, he probably won't have a good career. I mean, I was kidding, but ended up being the case. That's hilarious. Doubling back on

Rishi really quick. So one thing I love about guys like Rashi is when He has like this, you know, an off-field issue from like his freshman year or whatever. When a guy goes through something. Yeah. At dramatic and then comes out the other side, like a better person. I think that's a great sign. Jeffrey Simmons is probably the best example recently. Look at the guy now, man, getting that second contract, crying on the podium.

Like, I feel like Rashi has that. He's gone through some things in life. It's going to make him a better player and a better person. Well, I have the best story of all time, I believe, in regard to that. So back in, you know, over a decade ago, there was a tight end that I loved. So I go to the combine and I'm thinking the guys a stud. And at the combine, and this is actually in the old setup there at Lucas Oil Stadium, but, you know, they'd have like five, six, seven podiums.

I think they have a little bit more now. And the top players per position would get the podium. And the secondary guys who didn't get their own podium, they'd give them like a round table where they just sit there for 15 minutes and people can come up to them and ask them about, you know, whatever, you know. So I go into the room and I'm looking for my guy at the podium. I'm like, what the hell's going on here? There's no podium. I mean, this guy's getting this guy's getting roundtableed.

I mean, this is bullshit, I'm saying, right? So I go to the table and he's sitting there almost by himself. I'm like, bruh, this is bullshit. You should have your own podium. And he goes, for real. And that guy had a little bit off the field problem, which caused his stock to sink just a little bit. And that guy is the greatest titan of all time, Travis Kelsey. Wow.

Well, that's another great story, too, because, you know, he was literally kicked off the team at Cincinnati. Yep. Had to earn that back and, you know, basically went out of his way. He could have easily transferred, gone to a different school, played somewhere else. But it was really important. for him to earn that coaching staff's trust back and boom he he did it and look at him now man yeah couple of other real quick uh jonathan mingo was was real solid yes nothing nothing amazing but i liked it you know what i mean like he's talked about the legacy these big physical receivers at old

miss you know dk and a j brown i like that loved the little zay flowers interaction love that kid he's he's my guy um one other oh i did interview tre palmer on the radio recently he was solid Oh, you know who I loved? And he, boy, a strong, strong Michael Pittman vibe because I love Pittman that year. And, you know, when your dad played in the NFL, it's been there, done that, Cedric Tillman was an amazing. He was awesome. Great guy.

Great guy. So I'm rooting for him. You're not the first person to say that about Tillman. I've heard Tillman is a stand-up human being. Stand-up human being. And again, you know, we're digging deep here. but there's always a correlation, not always, but most of the time there's a correlation between guys who produce and get it done and maximize their talent and outstanding individuals.

I used to say that about Matt Forte. I was a huge Matt Forte guy. It's like literally one of the greatest guys of all time. And it wasn't incredibly talented, but look at that career he had. Yeah. Yeah, he made a lot out of a little. Yeah. All right.

Let's wrap it there, John. I appreciate you coming on the pod for those. who don't know, which I'm not sure how you wouldn't know him at this point. He's at Fantasy underscore Guru on Twitter. He is the founder and majority owner of FantasyPoints.com. John, thank you so much. You got it, Brett. Thanks for tuning in to this edition of the Fantasy Points Podcast.

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