Fantasy Football Daily - 2024 Wide Receiver + Tight End Crucial Lessons Learned | Fantasy Points Podcast

Episode Date: February 21, 2025

"The Guru" John Hansen and Brian Drake sit down for an in-depth look at the wide receiver and tight end lessons learned from the 2024 fantasy football season. #FFPodcast Where to find us: httpp//twitter.com/Fantasy_Guru http://twitter.com/DrakeFantasy http://twitter.com/FantasyPts Use promo code - SCOREMORE for 10% off your subscription Subscribe to FantasyPoints for FREE - https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans#/ Listen to the podcast here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/podcasts FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When planning for life's most important moments, sometimes the hardest part is simply knowing where to start. That's why we're here to help. When you pre-plan and prepay a celebration of life with us, every detail will be handled with simplicity and professionalism, giving you the peace of mind that you've done all you can today to remove any burden from your loved ones tomorrow. We are your local Dignity Memorial provider. Find us at DignityMemorial.ca. The Dignity Memorial Branding is used to identify a network of licensed funeral cremation and cemetery providers owned and operated by affiliates of service corporation international. Hey, what's up? It's John Hansen and Brian Drake and I are back with another mid-February edition

of the Fantasy Points podcast. This one here, we're still recounting all the lessons learned. Today we talk all receivers, wide outs and tight end. Pretty good year overall for yours, truly, but certainly plenty of misses. A lot of mixed bag stuff here at both positions. We'll break down the seasons by rookies like Malik neighbors, Brock Bowers. as Brian Thomas. We'll also talk old dudes like, well, Cooper Cup to name one. And we'll also touch on the tight ends and we offer up some serious hate for Kyle Pitts. So you're welcome for that. Thanks for liking and subscribing and listening as always. And we'll catch you next time. And you're welcome. Cross the Fantasy Universe. Welcome everyone to the Fantasy Points podcast. I'm your host,

Brian Drake, alongside the guru. John Hansen, publisher of FantasyPoint.com. John, we're into the off season now. We're still doing our lessons learned. Today we're going to touch on the wide receiver position and the tight ends. But how are things so far with with no football on a Sunday? Was a little weird this past week? Have you settled into a new routine or are you longing for July and training camp and the pads to pop again? First and foremost, catching up on some sleep. And I did get more sleep this past year than than ever. One of the reasons why I retired, from the morning show was it was in fact on Sirius XM. It was really,

really hurting my sleep. And that's not healthy. So no, I'm feeling good, feeling fresh. This is actually the deadest time of the year. We do have that five, six week pocket from like late June until camps,

training camps open, which is pretty damn dead. But we also have so much to sink our teeth into with the drafts and free agency, obviously in the rear view. So this is, in fact, the deadest time. But it doesn't last very long, by the way. I've always kind of lamented this, especially years ago when I would really, you know,

count the days until the offseason where I could relax a little bit. It would only be like four weeks and then free agency starts and then like, oh, here we go. We're back again. Basically, we're back again. Certainly it's not as busy. But we do get a blip there in, what is that, early? usually earlyish March, which is forthcoming. Combines right around the corner, folks.

And besides that, also spring football, if you're into the UFL, get over to FantasyPoints.com. Subscribe right now. You can get our great Jake Tribby, giving you all the goods on the UFO. Maybe your dynasty is your thing. This is dynasty season. Make sure you're checking out FantasyPoint.com. Theo Greminger, my guy, Thomas Tipple, and all of the good, good dynasty stuff we have.

head over to the YouTube channel as well. Subscribe, check out Dynasty Points. I got my Dynasty rankings in there as well, by the way. Updated, updated this week. I like it. I like it. I know Joe Dolan and I share a dynasty team. And our team kind of stinks because we don't pay a lot of attention to it.

People are trying to rip us off with some trades. So him and I have to text every day on what new awful trade was sent to our way. But that's neither here or there. I did come in second, by the way, in the fantasy points of Dynasty League. Once again, shout out to Paul Kelly. my team was on fire, but I, I just realized catching up on old emails that I won 400 bucks. I had no idea. That's how out of it I am.

Absolutely no idea that I won 400 bucks from that. But, yeah. Nothing wrong with that. And oh, folks, by the way, you love the fantasy points takes. You love the guru. You tolerate me. This is the only place you can get it right now. There is no more serious XM show.

Unfortunately, that got sunsetted. And this is the place. You got to get in on the Fantasy Points podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on the podcast feed and tell a friend to tell a friend and let it grow from here. So let's get into it, John. Lessons learned at the wide receiver and tight end positions. And let's start with our pal Malik Neighbors, because he and Brock Bowers just took the league

by storm. We had a lot of back and forth, you and I about Malik Neighbors in the preseason. He was, is 80P. I'm looking at it here on ESPN. you're looking around 19 or 20. And the bottom line with Bowers, it didn't matter what we thought of as quarterback or how the Giants were going to do.

Malik Neighbors is a freaking stud. And you want to bet on talent and volume. And the guy was second in the league in targets. So that's really what we need to hang our hat on. Yeah. And it always hurts me when I don't get these types exactly right because that's kind of been the thing that's made my, career is is being all about talent pedigree and all that but you know every situation is different

um all my concerns with both guys were warranted and did come through um at times for sure um maybe not as much with bowers uh but overall the offense was pretty weak let's be honest it it takes a truly special talent to rise and transnational. send a pretty weak situation in year one and be the go-to guy as Bowers was and neighbors. But the thing is, they got it done at the end of the day. Like there were problem areas. Malik neighbors missed a couple games and he had like four like black games. But at the end of the day, when you have a scenario where you have that combination,

where you have massive talent and a massive role. And granted, easy to say now with Bowers, Michael Mayer had a lost season. You know, he was the what, second round pick, third round pick, you know, pretty good player. So it was not easy to figure out his role Bowers, but they were a thin and receiver. Oh, and by the way, we didn't,

we didn't know that it would trade Devonthe Adams. Let's be fair. But at the end of the day, whenever you get this combination of massive physical talent plus massive volume likely at the very least. You got to go in because it's probably going to pop. Yeah. Looking back at the ADP for Brock Bowers,

I mean, he was coming off the board in ESPN. He's tight end 11. People taking David and Joku, our guy turd Ferguson was going before him. Dalton Kincaid. Oh, the money I lost on Dalton Kincaid this year. And now Brock Bowers likely to be the first tight end off the board in 2025. Are you nervous?

I know this is a lessons learned. but we always sprinkle in some forward-thinking thoughts here. With Brock Bowers and, you know, the new system there, we're bringing in Pete Carroll, we're not sure at the quarterback, will they bring in another alpha-wide receiver here? Is that scary off Brock Bowers at all? Or is he just, it's too good. He's the man. Lock it in.

He's Travis Kelsey, what we used to know Travis Kelsey for the next five, six, seven years. Well, I'm glad you brought that up because that is a very critical point. what would be worse than underrating Brock Bowers this past year? As I did. I never, and the same went with neighbors. If you read anything or heard anything I said, I said, look, these guys are absolute stallions.

But with neighbors especially, I was just a little worried about the really bad vibes. And again, they sucked. They sucked. They didn't completely unravel, but they stunk. and neighbors got it done. But here's the point, especially with Bowers. Now the price is going to be altered greatly.

His ADP was 80. It's probably now going to be 20. So that does change the whole thing. That change. That's a deal breaker. He might actually be overvalued. But the lesson is, hey, at the very least, don't be afraid to go in on a rookie. like I'm now granted 80 wasn't dirt cheap you know it was a little bit of a leap of faith but he still was the ninth tight end off the board the lessons should be specifically to go really micro with it and we'll get to other things on the tight ends look we're going to get four maybe five needle moving tight ends every year so why not take a shot with a guy with a pedigree and a talent level of Brock Bowers at 80 overall

It may not work out every time, but again, then again, you're not going to come around talents like Brock Bowers. So you might as well just next time it happens, just do it. It might take 10 years, though, for the next guy. You mentioned rookies. And after the break, we're going to talk about another stellar rookie who came out, who didn't have all the hype and fanfare of Malik neighbors, but produced just the same. When we come back, we're going to talk a little Brian Thomas Jr. of the Jacksonville Jaguars. It's the fantasy points pop.

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brian thomas junior i'll be frank right here i did not have enough of this kid i did not get him in many leagues uh maybe i was just bored by the name i always said if he had a really fun flashy name brian thomas junior would have been you know like a third round pick well he's about to be because he just went off this season uh for the jacksonville jaguars and if you look at him he finished as where is Brian Thomas Jr. If I could find him on the list. Total points. Wide receiver four, 16.7 points per game.

Over 1,200 yards receiving 10 touchdowns. I think that's only going to improve now with a little better coaching. We're going to get Christian Kirk probably out of town. What was the lesson you learned on a guy like Brian Thomas? A million things going on here. Number one, I mean, to really whittle it down, you know, I actually liked when they got Mack Jones. I actually didn't give up on Mac Jones.

And I'm like, you know what? That's great pickup because if they need them, they've got a viable quarterback. You also had an offense with continuity there. And I've never been a big Doug Peterson guy, but he's not crap. You know what I mean? And there's something we said for that. So that is, those are some of the reasons this was able to happen, basically, this breakout.

But the lesson is, you know, bet on attributes when in doubt. especially when you're dealing with a rookie like this, when the price tag is extremely affordable. Another guy undersold by about a round. But, you know, and he wasn't that expensive at 105 overall. But the real lesson is, yes,

bet on attributes because, you know, sometimes a guy didn't do something in college or was a one-year wonder like Thomas and a little bit of a one-trick pony like Thomas. doesn't mean no he can't do other stuff basically you know uh he was the deep threat he basically that's what he was uh at ls u the year before that with jane daniels malik neighbors was the go-to guy but as we learned brian thomas more than capable is he as good as malik neighbors

it's pretty close uh but but you know just because a guy didn't do something in college doesn't mean he can't so that was my lesson learned i will say i did get some pretty bad information from someone who was close to the coaching staff there, that he was a little raw, which made sense based on his role. But, you know, that's also special talent physically, but maybe he's really got a high football IQ and he picked it up a lot faster than anyone thought. Yeah, and now Brian Thomas next year or in just a few months, hell,

it could be a few weeks whenever you freaks out there start doing some best ball drafts. This guy's going to be going off at the one-two turn. So things change quickly in fantasy football. Which beg begs the question, okay, now you got to reasset, reassess. Granted, he was a baller and he finished high. That's only one year. There's another receiver, a tight end that we'll get to that we gave him that mad love after one massive year and it didn't really go well the next year.

Let's keep talking about the rookies here and somebody else who had a phenomenal season. Your boy, Ladd McConkey, if we were on serious, We'd play the drop here. John, can you give it to us? Can you give us to Ladd McConkey? Oh, he definitely was a good lad. He's a good lad. You got him basically a hundred picks into your draft.

He was wide receiver 43 in ADP before the season. And boy, did he come through for you. Now again, with Ladd McConkey, this is a guy who went to a spot that they had nothing. There was nothing going on out there in Los Angeles. It finishes as the wide receiver 11. in PPR. Will that happen next year? Well, we'll see. I got a feeling they're going to want to add somebody else to the mix. But high talent rookies who find themselves in spots to get volume, that's the lesson, John. If they go to a spot where there's tons of volume available,

don't be scared off. And we saw it with neighbors. We saw it with Bowers. We saw it with Brian Thomas. And we saw it, of course, with Led McConaughey. Yep. Yeah, no doubt about it. I'm sure he'll be just as productive, even if they had someone else, because you can never stop, you know, building pieces of an offense. And he's kind of the new Keenan Allen there. You love the inside outside versatility. I feel like he could play DB.

All of a sudden, these white guys out there playing DB or moving as well. He had absolutely no problem, Lamacconchi. And look, let's be honest here. I mean, we all love him. You know, he came on the serious show. Um, great kid.

He looks like he's freaking 15 out there. But he had no problem separating. None. Uh, very, very good athlete, uh, sneaky good. Like, I would say like, you know, a spec from like elite. Uh, I mean, he ran well. I mean, I think he was a 4-4 guy. But anyways, uh, yeah, uh, now, uh, before we pivot over to some,

other rookies. One other rookie was his own stand-alone lesson. And it's Marvin Harrison. And the lesson is, we simply cannot take a rookie this high unless we are almost completely convinced he's an absolute stallion and his quarterback is nearly flawless. The obvious comparison would be Jamar Chase. Like I said it on Sirius, before he played a snap. I'm like, I've seen enough. He's ridiculous.

I watched a lot of LSU. Of course, I was a very big Burrow fan. Huge massive difference between freaking Jamar Chase and Joe Burrow and Marvin Harrison and Kyler Murray as we saw. So we all screwed up there. I was there.

I ranked them right along, everyone else. But I also correctly ranked several other rookies who were grossly overvalued. So they're like, the antithesis that the of the that's a word that is pre-built in you must have a list to say that word for antithetheth who were overvalued and that's been the trend like these flashier names

who don't have these huge roles are grossly overvalued and the best example was roma dunzae and like look i like roma dunza i think he's good but 73 i ranked him at one I mean, that was insane. Now, I probably overdid it a little bit, but Roma Dunezay was a bust if you took him in like the sixth round. That's a good point there. You look at Keon Coleman, A.D. Mitchell, Xavier Legate, all guys who are really getting pumped up in the pre-draft process here for fantasy, who really for the most part

did a whole lot of nothing for us in terms of helping our fantasy teams. And I think, John, that's also a function. of maybe us here in the fantasy community, we love talking up rookies because we go from our dynasty teams and that's we're focused on. Hey, what can Roman, would I love Robin Dunzee on my dynasty team?

You're damn right I would. You want to break out and that often happens with rookies obviously because they haven't done anything. It makes sense. I get it. I get it. But I've actually as aggressive as I've been on young, young exciting players in my life here as a fantasy person,

I've actually been like get off my lawn. with some of these rookies, you know, with mixed results like anything. But that has definitely been a trend lately where these rookies are getting a little bit too much love here. There's only one ball, especially when production is down the last couple of years. Yeah, there's only a couple of rookies that actually even finished in the top 30 for wide receivers. I do want to ask you about one more and he finished just outside at number 33. And that's Xavier Worthy because we saw the role that he, took on in the playoffs and the Super Bowl with the great catch.

A little bit of function of Rishi Rice going down, Hollywood Brown not being there most of the year. So Xavier Worthy was a guy, though. People said, hey, you're going to put the fastest guy at the combine in this electric offense with Patrick Mahomes. He's going to come through. He's another guy, though, I kind of shied away from. I wasn't big on Xavier Worthy. So let's give a little bit of a look back on Worthy where I guess we got it right being, you know, shy on Worthy, but also going forward, what do you think worthy can become in this offense?

I mean, there's just so much going on here. Like, it's kind of a push. If you had like a battle royale like me and you, let's say, let's say you were team worthy as just being a good pick and I was against it. I would say it's a little bit of a push, but I'd have to, if I'd pick a winner, I'd have to pick you. but then again, you know, as I wrote my notes here, shocking, he only scored five more points than Wondell Robinson,

who you got out of the trash in, you know, whenever you did. So I don't know. I mean, I guess at the end of the day, he was probably appropriately priced at 94, considering the ceiling and the floor, because we kind of saw it all. So I think he was about right. So I had 15 picks after that.

So I would say I was slightly wrong. But yeah, interesting example because he kind of fell right in the middle. Yeah. And Xavier Worthy is a guy who really only came through for you in the fantasy playoffs. Right. Average about 17 points a week from weeks 15 through 17. Before that, I mean, he was almost unplayable. I mean, there was a week in week 9, he scored negative points.

So I don't think anybody who had Xavier Worthy and you were like, oh, he's going to be a starter in my life. You probably didn't even make the playoffs. So maybe he helped you to a consolation trophy. True, true. That's the fantasy points podcast here, Brian Drake, alongside the guru. Make sure you're following on YouTube. Folks, this YouTube channel we're putting out for fantasy points is so loaded.

You want dynasty content. We got tons of it. You want to learn about rookies. We got it over there as well. You just want some fun, you know, banter back and forth about redraft fantasy football. We got it all. Go over that. YouTube channel, subscribe, just search fantasy points, and it'll be damn glad that you did.

All right, guru, let's talk about Chris Godwin for a second. And everyone likes to in this preseason, you know, take fest, this guy has this role. You know, this coach moved to this new team. So player X is going to have, let's call it the Cooper Cup role for Chris Godwin. Okay. And we've seen it with Justin Jefferson or, you know, the Keenan Allen role, whatever it is. but with Chris Godwin in that Cooper Cup role, he kind of paid off. He did what we thought he was going to do, well, until he got hurt.

Oh, yeah. That was, we were all devastated because we were all way out in front on him. I'm looking right now in my top 2,200 cheat sheet. Now, the markets did catch up to me toward the end, but I was still, I made sure I was 15 spots over his ADP at 60 overall. And it was Greg Allman of the Athletic, who actually told, told me on series xm i mean i'm thinking way back in like march uh when um leum cohen was hired right around that time or when the developing off season that you know the the

the off season started basically uh very early in the process i'm like oh okay uh you know because at the time before we heard that granted it was a great player but still it was justin jefferson oh he's going to have the so i mean And the Pooka Nakua role is kind of the same, but don't doubt that role, though, ever when it comes to a Sean McVe disciple, basically, because they're freaking target hounds that mean, the offense goes through this spot, basically often. It depends on the player, too. But when you have a guy like Godwin, who's good, and better in the slot, as soon as I heard it, I was like, that's it. I'm in, all in, baby. Unfortunately, he got hurt.

Chris Godwin, until he got hurt. By the way, folks, finished the year, 19.7 PPR points per game. Second best among all wide receivers just behind Jamar Chase. You know he finished just ahead of? Pooka Nakua, who you just mentioned, 18 points per game for Pooka Nakul. So is Christian Kirk? By the way, is Christian Kirk going to be in that position this year? Yeah, Christian Kirk's an interesting guy.

I think Christian Kirk go to a spot. You know, a lot of people put him, oh, go to Kansas City. I could see him fitting in there. You know, he's a guy, I think, can come in and just really command the football and help put a team over the top. I'm excited about where Christian Kirk lands.

I think he's the best free agent wide receiver on the market because I doubt T. Higgins or Chris Godwin makes it there. Yeah, I'm checking to see if he is a free agent because he did. They're going to end up, I think cutting him. Right. Yeah, he's not a free agent. So it'll be him. It'll be Devante Adams, guys that are freed up. Is that the word? I haven't heard that. You know, it's not one of the things I'm following, like rumors of a guy getting cut. Although maybe I guess I should for Keeper and Dynasty,

but, you know, because I knew he had, he had signed a pretty long-term deal to go over there in 2022, right? So. Yeah, you can get rid of him this year. I was just reading up on it before the show. it's not a bad deal. So you could see a trade. You could see him released and moved on from this year for the Jags. And hey, I don't know why people want to get rid of good players, but that's the word. Yeah, he's pretty good. You know, you're stunned, but it's pretty good. Parker Washington showed a little bit.

I mean, they don't have anyone on the roster right now. I mean, that would be Brian Thomas. But do you want Brian Thomas in the quote unquote in the quote unquote role? No, you probably don't. You probably want them, you know, if you're looking at Tampa's offense, he's probably the Mike Evans. But, you know, that entails lining up inside, too. One of the themes on the Fantasy Points podcast in the last few weeks has been the Jets are going to jet guru. And when it came to Garrett Wilson, listen, here's a guy.

He played every game throughout the season. You know, he had serviceable quarterback play, I guess you could say. But the problem was where we took him. And I know I had drafts. I took this guy at the back around one, John, and just did not pay off for me. Well, that's a lesson right there. No more.

Sorry, guys. You, the jet players are banned from round one. When was the last time a jet player was drafted in round one and it went well? Jeez. You're putting me on the spot here. Let's go. I mean, it's more rhetorical. Green and McNeil.

Probably no one. I mean, yeah, I love me some Freeman McNeil back in the day. I actually love those old jet teams, by the way. I could do shows on Johnny Hector, a little Mickey Schuller, a little Kenny O'Brien, a little Altoon. Anyways, the hell are we talking about here? You're at Wilson. Oh, yeah, right, of course. Yeah, I mean, I would say it was one of the worst 100 catch seasons I've ever.

scene, which is pathetic. You know, he was wide receiver 9 in scoring, but like you said, we, we, I had him at 11. I'm a fan. His ADP was right there, 11.7. I'm a big fan. Whenever I see a stud like this with a very competent quarterback, obviously, granted we weren't sure about Rogers, uh, you know, and all that, but I felt pretty decently about it.

Like, I'm in on that guy. Well, what, what happened? Jets going to jet is what happened. essentially at the end of the day, not to be overly simplistic. But let's just, the jets are freaking banned. You are all banned from drafting a jet in the first round until further notice. Here's the thing with Garrett Wilson. You drafted him at the end of round one early round two.

He didn't give you a top, geez, top 25 week for the first four weeks of the season. It wasn't until weeks five and six where he actually had top 10 weeks. And then you go to the end of the season from weeks 10 until, geez, the damn near season ended. He had one week in the top 20 at the wide receiver position. Like you can compile and have huge weeks where he's score 25 points, 30 points, whatever that is. But if you're wide receiver 54 on a week, you're not helping us. I mean, no one knew they would trade for Devante Adams, to be fair. But he was not great before the trade.

it's one of those things too it's you kind of new i remember writing an article earlier this year where i did like oh here's some things that are going to happen and i had the devante adams like that was always kind of a rumble that was out there you did you did they could bring it in we brought it up on this podcast multiple times in the off season that's true well it kind of leans into this next point we're going to talk about nico collins uh on the other side of the break here but just think about nico collins folks and when you're drafting and you're thinking about a studing some other guys around. I don't know if I want to take him because there's a lot of competition. We're going to talk about that on the other side and if those fears are warranted.

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I'm sitting there. I got my pen and paper. I'm crossing names off. I get down to Nico Collins, right? And I look and I go, oh, they got Stefan Diggs. They got Tank Dell. There's too much competition here. Should I be worried, John?

Because the guy's a stud. At the end of the day, no, you probably shouldn't. Now, look, every year's different, but it sure did seem to, all the fears about maybe a lack of volume were pretty quickly alleviated when you add an older player in Diggs

and he goes down relatively early in the season. But yeah, I kind of blew it myself. And at the end of the day, you know, it was, you know, like I keep calling it, like an old school ascension. But by the end of 2023 in that playoff run and all that, like, we knew

like this was pretty special. Like this was, like I said, an old school ascension. You're not used to guys nowadays blossoming in like year four. It's like normally if you're not fully bawling out by year four, you're a bum.

But Nico, well, three, year three. It like, two full seasons as an active starter where he only had three touchdowns. Again, that certainly is part of that was the quarterback play. But he has clearly developed unbelievably. So I underrated him a little bit. But here's one of the problems.

And this is, you know, sometimes you're damned if you do, damned if you don't because I always obtain my rankings via projections. And the projections need to logically fit. So you have to account for Steph Diggs. You have to account for Dell and certainly, you know, the others. So that did take away a little bit from the totals I projected for Collins, which pushed them down a little bit. But at the end of the day, when the bullets are flying for real in a draft,

you know, if you were convinced that the guy's a stallion, just take them. More often than not, things work out. the cream rises to the top or the universe just allows an open pathway to, you know, a massive role that you really were hoping for, but, you know, couldn't conjure up in the summer,

but boom, it happened. And the same thing could be said for a guy like Jerry Judy, very talented player, but you could get the greatest discount in the world on him. I mean, he was going off the board at player 142. He was wide receiver 55 coming into drafts here.

So you look at Jerry Judy and yeah, okay, there was a lot going on here with his season and, you know, the quarterback changes and whatnot. But he did get the big contract with the Browns. And he had a couple of games that were just off the charts. I mean, he had a 36 point game in week 13 against Denver. Everyone remembers that game. And Jerry Judy, though, John, is just a really good player. So if you're in the back half of your draft and you see these guys, you're like, I know he's a good player.

I know he's young. don't poo-poo these guys. It can be tough because these are human beings and you never know with an individual. You could have argued at the end of 2023 that this is who he is. You know, it'll get you 50 to 60 some odd catches. He'll score like three, four tutties, you know,

decent, but not a needle mover. we were always disappointed though because we thought that he could be a high volume if not alpha receiver basically uh it it kind of took a half a century or a decade sorry half a century uh no it took uh half a century for me watching the vikings not win super bowls but that's another story uh but you know it kind of took a half a decade but again he was 25 years old this year so he's 21 when he came out. So maybe he was a little young and immature. I know Steve Smith broke his balls legendarily a couple years ago saying that, you know, this is not it. What you're putting out there is that's not what you are. Like you're better than that. So he kind of took him to task a little bit. And Judy, to his credit, has seemingly responded a little bit. But yeah, the lesson learned is, you know, it's one thing if the guy's 29 and hadn't done crap, but, you know, 25, If you thought at one point, he could be a stud player at 25, given the fact that,

and I did think that he could be a stud player. I didn't listen to what I'm about to say, but that's why it's a lesson learned. If you thought a guy who's going off the board at 150 and is 25 years old was potentially a stud player, maybe you should just take a shot at a guy in the freaking 13th route. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people end up dropping Jerry, Judy. Remember week five through seven, he had one catch each of those games.

So there are people picking Jerry Judy up off the waiver wire. That's true. After his week 10, buy on, I mean, the guy was on fire. He had games of 142 yards, 235 yards, 108 yards. So Jerry, Judy is probably a guy most people scooped up off the waiver wire when somebody in their league dumped their ass. Yeah. Well, you know who else? may have been dropped in the league and I definitely saw it was Michael

Pittman and I dumped his quarterback as well and the lesson learned here is when you've got a high volume receiver like Michael Pitman John they've got to have a good pocket passer and Michael Pittman did not have that in Anthony Richardson. No and for some reason I have no idea why but I wasn't that into Pittman going into 2023 because of Anthony Richardson and then then what did he do he freaking had a hundred nine catch season now hey pitman i've always been a

pitman guy uh from the beginning i was a big pitman supporter on the serious xm show uh he came on a couple of times but for some reason i guess i just got clouded uh by what we saw from gardner minshue i'm like man if he could do this with gardiner freaking minshu and he's going to be all right with anthony richards and he wasn't uh now granted also injury was a factor. But they also did add A.D. Mitchell. And they had a couple guys in him and Pierce who kind of commanded the ball a little bit. They were different type of players.

So like he also lost the volume. So it was like a double whammy there. It was like we got hit on all fronts health wise, volume wise, and quarterback play. So, you know, when you have a guy like Pitman, let's be honest, he's a bigger guys, not a freaking quick twitch stud. You can do a lot with a little. You need the volume. You've got to get competent quarterback play from pocket

quarterbacks. And Michael Pittman was going at the basic end of the third round by ADP. Do you know how many weeks Michael Pittman gave you a top 20 fantasy performance this season, John? Three. Not even.

Two. Week 12 against Detroit, he was wide receiver of 15 in his best game of the season when the fantasy championship game. So we helped a lot of people win their toilet bowl, 21.4 points against the New York Giants. He was wide receiver 10. So shout out to all you guys in the losers bracket with.

Probably, well, yeah, because a week before, he had two catches for 19 in the semis. It's killing people out there. Hey, I am so glad that we had the stick player on our list. One of my favorite guys, I draft him every year in a ton of leagues, and it's Jacobi Myers. Nobody wants to draft Jacoby Myers. They all look at the guy, like, what team is he on?

He's still in the league. But Jacobi Myers is just good at football, John. And he proves it every single year. Every year. It's unbelievable. I was very high on him the year before last. And he was good. This year, I wasn't nearly as high, but I did still make sure.

And by the way, this would have been an example of when basing my rankings off projections working in my favor because I was not high on Jacoby Myers this year. Certainly wasn't down on them, but I wasn't into them. But when I plugged in my projections based on role, granted, did know Devante would be traded, but still, I had them over his ADP by like a round, basically. But yeah, that's the lesson. Like this freaking guy is good. And this was one of the first players where I truly learned.

about the player from our fantasy points data because I thought he was slot only, honestly. But our data two years ago going into 2023 said that no, he's actually very good on the outside. I'm like, all right, I'm going to go with that. And that has held up. And again, did you win your league because you had Jacoby Myers on a team? No, probably not. But when you can get a guy, we just talked about Michael Pittman, the guy's not giving me any and he taught 10 weeks.

You got three top 10 weeks out of Jacobi Myers this past season. So just a little more consistent. And again, he was probably a guy who's like your wide receiver five. I mean, he was like wide receiver 55 in drafts coming off the board. So it's just a good player and a good offense with a lot of volume. And you know the Raiders ain't going to run the football. Come on, what are we talking about here? Let's move on and talk about a couple of high pedigree guys that you could get at a discount.

And listen, every year you guys hear me banging on Zay Flowers. and, you know, his A dot coming into this year was microscopic, and I didn't love the offense. They had Derek Henry. Zayflowers went out there. We had a very, very good year. But these are high pedigree guys. These are people with, you know,

we'll get lump Calvin Ridley in this too, I guess. Guys who went to, you know, good programs, major power five schools in Boston College. And Calvin really was a Georgia guy, right? Yeah. Oh, no, Alabama is Alabama. Excuse me. All the national championships between the two teams cloud.

My brain over here is a, Syracuse fan, you know, winning the holiday bowl was the highlight of my century. So, but when you get these guys, the high pedigree guys at a discount, it's worth taking that shot. Yeah, no doubt. Like, we discuss Zay Flower. Here's the ironic thing about Zay Flowers, as I've stated along many times. I loved Zay Flowers coming out. He was a little polarizing. I loved him in Addison. And I wasn't Quentin Johnston. And I was kind of lukewarm on JSN, although I think JSN this year was good. But Zay Flowers, ironically, I kind of brushed back against your criticism,

yet I also had him underranked. So again, like I did get the player scouting, I believe, correct as he came into the NFL. I thought he had a little Antonio Brown and I know a couple of Steelers on Twitter to think I'm an idiot for saying that. But that's, I mean, he had a game late in a year against the Steelers, where I'm like, well, I hope that people will call me a moron, see Zay Flowers looking quite like Antonio Brown beating their Steelers.

Basically, I'm going to call the game up. So I undersold him. So the lesson learned is, again, another guy that I was totally sold on, worried a little bit about volume, but, and it's, that was fair, but he was still their alpha and I should have gave him a little bit more love. What was that game here? Yeah, I mean, it wasn't unbelievable.

It was probably the game where he had five for 100 against Pittsburgh. He balled out in that game. It wasn't the one, the previous matchup. He scored in that one, but yeah, it was probably that game. But anyways, Zay Flowers, first round pick, pedigree guy, in a good offense.

Hey, with a good quarterback, we probably should have been a little, little higher on him. I kind of blew that one. Ridley, I wasn't in, John, on Zay Flowers, his consensus ADP was like 25. The guy finished his wide receiver 25. So yeah, so right about where people had him. Same thing really with Calvin Ridley finishes wide receiver 27. I think his ADP was like 29, something like that. Yeah, I'm looking at my overall cheat sheets. I don't have exactly where I had them positionally. But for example,

what's, Calvin Ridley's ADP was 83.5. I had him at 73. So that's, you know, that's, and I had him as a target. So that's a little bit of an endorsement, you know, pedigree-wise. So I got that right.

But I should have given just a little bit of a nudge for the same reasons, essentially, to Zay Flowers. And I will push back. Anyone who wants to shove Zay Flowers down my throat, Zay Flowers had one top 25 finish as a wide receiver in PPR after week nine. One. So there.

He was very middling for most of you folks with a bunch of eight point weeks out there. My Zay Flowers hate will never die on this podcast. He is. But, you know, at the end of the day, he didn't do it every week, but he got pretty good volume in a pretty good offense. And he is talented. And he kind of was their alpha. So at the end of the day, you know, it's a guy we should buy, buy while while young, too.

That's the other thing. You know, there was 20 second in targets. So that was really the problem, you know, but he, I felt like, he felt like, I know in the 14 team, uh, FPI, fantasy points, invitational like I took, um, Kirk over him. Man, I really regretted that. I don't know if I even freaking knew that Flowers was avail, but I definitely regretted that one there. Well, you talk about don't draft the old guy.

And we brought this up with Christian McCaffrey a week ago on the running back lessons learned. If you miss that, go back in the podcast archives. It was the last show we just did. But that's with Cooper Cup. And now Cooper Cup, there's trade rumors swirl and they could cut his ass. He could be out on the street. Cooper Cup was somebody who, looking at, and his consensus ADP was like wide receiver 17.

He was a top 40 draft pick in most fantasy drafts out there. And Cooper Cup was an unmitigated disaster by the end of the season, John. So the lesson learned here with a guy like Cooper Cup is there's no reason to pay a premium for an old guy with an injury history when there's all this upside going off the board around him. Yeah, like you may just maybe you were cryogenically frozen for the season. just waking up now, the thawing. Like, oh, 14.6 points a game.

Wide receiver 22. All right. That's not bad. But then, of course, he missed five games. And by the end of the season, as you mentioned there, he was impossible to trust. So it's like one of the worst showings for a top 25 receiver in points per game ever. And, you know, the age and the injuries, all that. Again, we get it.

He's Cooper Cup. And he did have a couple of massive games. by the way. He did. He was wide receiver two twice on the season, week one and week 11. But you know, again, at the end of the day, like I said, when there are viable alternatives,

like, why do it? Godwin was a good example. We talked about the Cooper Cup role. Godwin's ADP, as I noted here, was 35 picks later. I separated by only 10 picks, though. So that

that shows you right there. I mean, Godwin, he's had ACL in his career, not impervious to injury, but he's probably about, what, four or five years younger. And you can get them item 20 picks higher or only separated by 10 picks when the ADP separation was 35 picks. So clearly, if you wanted that type of high volume guy, Godwin was the pick. Of course, I didn't work out either. Yeah, I have zero interest, by the way. I don't care where Cooper Cup lands, but that's what we do in fantasy, the casual guy who's going to show up at your draft and get the magazine from the gas station on the way there is me like oh wow cooper cups on you know throw a team out cooper comes on the broncos cooper cuffs cooper cuffs on the

chiefs i don't care i don't want him at this point i'm staying away from these old guys john he could you could he could start the season with 30 catches in his pocket i'm not taking the guy yeah no i just i think if you if you did that with all 30 if you just faded all 30 or older receivers unless they are 80% or more likely to make the Hall of Fame. You come out on top, period. That's that period. And the exceptions would be like Devante Adams recently and Mike Evans. And it was Tyree Kill up until this year.

One of the lines I love using on this show is from American Pite. It's the old Steve Stifler. You don't score until you score. And with this next player, it's you haven't arrived until you. arrived and that's jaden reed what the hell happened to jaden read this year guru i mean you look at people were excited to draft him uh he was coming off the board i just lost his name of course where to hell jaden reed go oh he's like wide receiver 36 by consensus out there uh it's like an top 85 pick and fantasy there's just so many miles defeat in this offense is passing game at least for

green bay just never got off the ground yeah i actually had him ranked right with zay flowers Um, so I was right to, I don't know what, I was right to not be higher on them. I think his ADP actually tumbled a little bit as the season went on, quite frankly, because I seem to recall it being like 50 early on, but I see here 75, I had him at 71. Um, yeah, I, I don't know. It's, it's very bizarre. I do know that he went on a Mon Ra's podcast and talked about joining the Lions, like mid-season. So I think there may have been some sort of falling out, but also related to this,

if you have five good wide receivers like the Packer seemingly did, you may have zero good fantasy wide receivers. Other things going on there that Jordan loves injuries, and they did kind of revert to LaFleur's previous run heavy form, which I don't know. I still don't think that was planned. Now, I think that they brought in Josh Jacobs in case they needed to revert that way. And in case they wanted to run a rock a little bit more than they did the year before. Yeah, get that. But I don't know if that was a plan, but that's how it worked out. But end of the day, I guess, you know, just be a little cautious. And that's kind of what I was trying to be with flowers, you know, like, I guess. you know, one year is doesn't mean you've arrived.

Things can things can, you got to, you got to probably get a two year body. Now, a guy like J.S.N is a, is, you know, I think that sticks. Like, that's good. Like, he's good. Like, wherever he settles in year three is about right. But, you know, we, we kind of got Jane Reed wrong this past year. So I would imagine his ADP will be like 125 this year. somebody who's got an ADP that always befuddles me.

You can get them 100 picks into every draft you do is Cortland Sutton of the Denver Broncos. Now, we just talked about a team that had a billion different options at the wide receiver position. Coming into this year, you look at the Broncos, John, they don't have anybody. Why would we not hire on a guy like Corton Sutland who finished as the wide receiver 12 in PPR, eight touchdowns? Oh, it's all the guy does is got touchdowns. I know. Over 1,000 yards, eight touchdowns for Cortland Sutton average 14.2 ppr points a game.

He's boring. The answer is that is boring. He is. You know, a little bit of a one-dimensional type of player, but he's expanded out a little bit, doing like crosser routes more and not just running in a straight line downfield and all that. I wasn't particularly into him, but I was once again probably a good example. example of, excuse me, of how I use the projections to do the rankings, because again, I wasn't that high on them, but I had him at 105 overall.

His ADP was like 117. So that was about a round ahead. So, yeah. But that's the lesson, though. Like, when you look at the situation, again, there's always a million things going on here. We didn't know Bo Nix would be that good. But, you know, you look at the roster. all right, well, they took a quarterback in the first round.

He might be good. Sean Payton pretty much think he's good. They don't have a tight end of note. And they got a bunch of young receivers and little Jordan Humphrey. So of course, like, you know, like by default, he's, he's the alpha. He's got to be the alpha. So. Little Jordan Humphrey, come on.

I know. I just like saying little Jordan Humphrey and telling the story about when I, when my first question, when I interviewed him was, are you going to name your first born little braw crickets? It's just nothing. Over said. Nothing.

Oh, well, it's cruel. Hey, let's take a time out here real quick. Guru's dying a slow death over here. We've got to let him drink a little bit of water. No, I got something in my throat there. I'm good now. On the other side, I want to talk a little bit more about some wide receivers.

Then we're getting into the tight end position. It's the Fantasy Points podcast. All right. back in everybody, Drake and the guru. Follow us on social media at Drake Fantasy at Fantasy underscore Guru, whatever they're, whatever hellscape you decide to get your news from these days. You can hang out with us there. So if we're talking wide receivers and lessons learned, one of them is you better get these wide receivers in the draft. So what we mean by that is there weren't a lot of waiver wire wide receivers that came out and helped us this year.

The waiver wire just in general, John, wasn't very fruitful for. fantasy football, but only four guys who might not have been drafted, you know, around the top 40. We're talking Darnell Mooney, who helped me in a couple of leagues, Juan Del Robinson. This looks like my King's classic PPR team. It's ridiculous. Quentin Johnston and Rashad Bateman who came on like gangbusters down the stretch. Granted, I think I'm just looking at like total scoring, but that that's quite revealing.

And it's not like these, these four were like massive needle movers. No. Mooney was for probably three months. Then he fell off with the injury and all that. But he was he was looking at least two months in. He was looking like a league winner. I bet you if you look at the, I'm all doing right now. I'll bet you he was a top 15 receiver through week 10. Oh, probably.

I mean, this is the guy who was wide receiver 60. coming off the board in drafts. You can get him 175 picks into a draft. Yeah. Not if you're listening to the guru, though. That cheat sheet, John, I had Darno Mooney everywhere. Yeah. I mean, that's what it's about.

You know, we're going to get them wrong. But if we can get a, oh, my God. Through week 10, Mooney was the wide receiver eight. Wow. In total scoring and in points per game, okay, it wasn't as good. He was 19. but that's pretty close but probably a little bit more valuable

than a number of players above them who missed time like Cooper Cup and Rishi Rice Rice and T. Higgins so he was he was that let's just call it top 15 but yeah so

better make those late round wide receiver picks count because that is your traditional waiver wire is now conducted during your draft in the final three to five rounds. Let me talk about George Pickens. And I actually made a trade for George Pickens. And my biggest home league that I care owes so much about. I had a ton of injuries. And I had to trade away Jamar Chase to get some help because I literally had no wide receivers left. So I traded Jamar Chase for skinny Batman and George Pickens. Which for first, first,

a while turned out to be okay until Jemar Chase just went on a heater at the end of the year and shoved it up my backside. But that's neither here nor there. But George Pickens, the lesson here, though, is looking at that low volume offense and a bad quarterback situation. Like, those are things pre-draft you want to stay away from. And I did not, by the way. This is why it's a lesson for me, because I thought maybe it was a little bit of a hot take, but I'm like, wow, George is going to eat here when I did my run of projections. That was it. I'm like,

George is eating. And, you know, he did a lot, you know, like open the season six for 85, had an 11 target game in week four, seven for 113, 113, had a game against the Jets, October 20th, nine targets five for one. 11 and a toddy at a 12 target game. But the end of the day, a lot of stuff going on here as well because freaking George is bombastic and volatile. But at the end of the day, yeah, let's try to keep some common sense here.

And you see a low volume guy in a with a bad quarterback room. Yeah, it's probably not a good combo. I tried it out. It wasn't horrible, like you said. there, but it wasn't great. His ADP was 57. I had him at 42. I was pretty damn high on them.

I would say that wasn't an epic fail by any stretch, but it wasn't a win, that's for sure. Final thought on the wide receivers. Lessons learned here is 30-year-old and older running, or wide receivers, excuse me, they're still risky unless there's one caveat here, John, and what is that? They are Cantonbound. basically.

And they're not going to the Fantasy Football Expo. They're actually going to be in the Hall of Fame. Right, right. Like, so when you look at like Keenan Allen, you know, he had a pretty good year. All things considered. I don't think he made the top 40. America's top 40.

Keenan Allen. No. Wide receiver 34. Oh. And, oh, is that points per game? I think I was going by, oh, is that? No, it might be points per game.

Let's see. here. 24. Why I've got zero points per game? Where the hell is he? Keenan-Ale and L. 34. I got your site, John. You own the damn site. I got it pulled up in front of me. What the hell am I not? Oh, oh, I was looking at total points. Okay. There it is. All right.

Well, why, why am I not finding Keen- why this always happens to me when I'm looking through a scrolling through a freaking list? sometimes either I find it right away or like he is literally not showing up for me I tell you there's no greater feeling in the world oh I know why because I'm looking I'm not looking at the whole damn season

I'm still on that damn 10 game sample size John you got to know this too from hosting a million shows when you're trying to find something and there's times folks where you're just vamping like because you're looking around like three different screens trying to try to scroll when you find that nugget like right there you're like boom there's this name. Oh, it's the greatest feeling in the world. You sound so smart to the listeners. And then you

sound so dumb, uh, like I did on a repeated basis. Yeah, so that was, okay, 34 in, uh, total points, but in points per game was he then? Oh, 35. Okay. Um, yeah, 35. But anyways, um, generally, I mean, so he, you know, that wasn't, but, but by the way, that wasn't very good. It's ultimately still wasn't very good. Good player. You know, again, always a lot of different things going on here. But it's kind of a, it's kind of worked out like Cooper Cop, Keenan Allen. Last two years, I'm saying like, very good.

Borderline Hall of Famers, but they're probably not going to make it. So, and now that they're over 30, don't draft them. And that's kind of been pretty good advice. whereas with Devante and Mike Evans, it's like, you know, it's scary. I know, but yeah, these guys are, they're going to Canton. So it'll probably be all right. And it kind of was. Whereas Tyreek now is kind of in that, he's in that limbo period now.

Like he's definitely not a lock now, I think. So I probably will pass on them going forward. I know it seems arbitrary, but it just, this seems to work out. If you're 30 or older, the only way we should take you for fantasy is if you're pretty much a slam dog Hall of Famer. There you go. Hey, and if you're a Hall of Fame home league player, make sure you're subscribed to FantasyPoints.com. Get over there. Check out our subscription plans and join us all offseason.

The content doesn't stop. I know some of these other sites, they take a vacation. They fire all their writers. Everyone goes away. No, no, no, not here. We got it. We're locked and loaded. The team is bigger and better.

than ever. You want to win your offseason. You want to be prepared. You want to read Brett Whitefield's prospect guide. You want to crush your dynasty drafts. You want to be ready for that UFL, make a little cash on the side. FantasyPoints.com is where you want to be. All right, John, let's talk a little tight end action. Okay. That's usually when the microphones go off. That's a whole other conversation, John and I have. But George Kittle, here's a guy who every year is just damn good. But people, they don't want to draft him as the number one tight end. Number two, like, ah, George Kittle. I don't know.

I'm going to take this other name above him. George Kittle again, tight end three. Average damn near 16 points a game. You could have got him as the tight end six at 50 plus picks into a draft this year. Unbelievable. You know, I've had horror stories with George Kittle. I took him one year in the ACI and like, I don't know, like 20 overall. I think that was 20, 20, 20.

And he missed half the season. It was a nightmare. But he, I'll never forget. Shortly, it must have been 2021. He signed like a new contract. And he said, oh, this is great. Now I can go out and hit people and not get worried, not be worried about getting hurt. I'm like, no, dude, no.

You run away from these people. I know you're an in line guy. But when was that contract? He signed a five-year deal. I guess it was 2020, right around there. But anyways, like a fine wine, it is quite rare. He has found some sort of combination that has allowed him to completely turn the corner in terms of managing injuries and avoiding them. So it's absolutely incredible.

I mean, this guy, he is now going to be in the Hall of Fame consideration. Yeah, he's fantastic. And I think he could get even more targets this year if Debo leaves town. He's not slowing down. No, not at all. Finished as I said, tight end number three. This came out of nowhere. I don't care who you are.

Nobody, John, had Jonu Smith as the tight end to get. John Smith finishes tight end four on the season, 13 points a game, finished with eight touchdowns. through the air, a damn near 885 yards. Just what a season for John Hussmith. And it really, it's an identity shift because this McDaniel offense, John, they never threw to the tight end. Never.

And then all of a sudden, John who comes out, catches 88 balls. I will say, was I telling people to draft John Smith? No. But I will say I was intrigued by this pickup all year. And I think I mentioned it a couple of places. And it's not like McDaniel didn't cut his teeth under coaches, freaking use tight ends. You know, like Shanahan has been very,

the Shanahan tree has been very tight end friendly. One of the other advantages of doing projections is, okay, they signed him. He is a pretty good player. Like maybe they're going to use them as a glorified blocker, but no, I think they're going to do something. So I actually was 50 spots over his ADP of my cheat sheet, but that does, I'm not putting myself on the back at all because I freaking had him at 185.

His ADP was 230, but he was way, he was, you know, 15 spots up the top 200 cheat sheet, at least, at the very least, along with, you know who was I had rank right after him, by the way, whose ADP was 139? Sam Darnold. You know what that talks, really speaks? to, John, is being aggressive and proactive on the waiver wire at a position like tight end. This is a lessons learned podcast. So when you see someone like Jonu, they start to pop on a team that maybe doesn't have a lot of other options,

specifically at that position, I know sometimes people are like, I want to see it for another week. I'm going to wait. I'm not going to put a claimant. I'm not going to pick them up. No. Maybe the lesson here is you've got to strike while Aaron's hot with these guys. well to get to another lesson um tight ends in general like you got five or six guys that's it uh otherwise the rest of them are just jags streamers they're they're just guys you know um when you look at like

you know like freaking zach ertz was it like a stud this year really zach hurts like that that was a pick. I joked all year that he'd be the tight end nine after the first, you know, six weeks of the season and then would fade. No, no, he was like the tight end six on the damn season. So, yeah, like whenever you get a chance at a needle mover, like I said earlier with Brock Bowers, like, go for it because you're, you're just not, there weren't even really six. like the the tight end nine is kind of worthless uh like that was pat friarmouth this year 65 grabs 655 seven toddies hey look at me didn't matter like did anyone feel like they had an advantage with pat friarmouth no that's a guy if you had him on your team you know maybe hopefully you had hockinson later maybe you picked up kate otton for a couple of weeks right zicki when higgins was out. That's really what the tight end position was if you didn't have Bowers, McBride,

Kiddle, or Johnu, or I guess maybe to a lesser extent, Kelsey, but did someone drop Mark Andrews? Was Zach Kurtz on your waiver wire for a while? Zach Kurtz was on waiver wires all season long. You could have had him. Yeah. And he finishes as the tight end seven. This is why, this is why, by the way, we gave love to freaking Dalton Kincaid and Kyle Pitts and others. You know, so like it's all about touchdowns too. That's the other thing. Pitts did score four.

So for him not as much. But for example, my guy Jake Ferguson, you know, there was a moment midseason where it looked like he was going to hit. But the dude didn't score. He had 59. You score. So I said. Yeah.

He had 59 grabs. He was actually. 12th in catches. John, this past weekend, I toured Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta, and I got to go in the Falcons locker room, and I got to see Kyle Pitts's locker. I took a picture of it. I should tweet it out. Wow.

Just an empty locker. And I go, he's ready for game day. This is him. This is about Kyle Pitts showing up right here. Because, oh, boy, I will never draft Kyle Pitts. There's a lot of guys, you go, well, it depends on the situation. I got no interest in Kyle Pitts. I don't care.

You could have him in the 13th round. I'm not drafting the guy. I just not take him. I was, I was, I've been tricked three years in a row probably, but, you know, I thought going into last year, it was a completely reasonable position with the quarterback and coordinator change. And boy, did that that just blow up in our faces? That just, just absolutely pathetic. I mean, for lack of a better word, I mean, it was, it's pathetic.

You know, at the end of the day, you got to. be more of an inline guy. Who are the studs? They are the guys who do most, a lot of work in line. Kittle. Hawkinson. Kelsey. Andrews.

Andrews. McBride. You know, like these hybridy guys or these glorified big wide receivers like they're just not as good because they, you know, for one, Brent Whitefield kind of brilliantly figured it out like you're out there playing like a big wide receiver which sounds

appealing but a lot of big wide receivers have limitations they're not quick twitch they don't change directions incredibly well takes them a lot to throttle down ultimately that's kind of pits he's like a big unicorn out there like a big like big bird out there

it's like big bird out there. That can make for us on social media clip. Let me ask you about Samuel Leporta. And we do this in fantasy every year when there's that young ascending tight end. And next year that young ascending tight end, I can tell you

right now, everyone's going to be in on Brock Bowers. Could it pay off? Absolutely. But you know what? When you buy Brock Bowers, you're going to be buying them in the second round. And Leporta last year, you were getting him at what, pick 24, McBride, you were getting him, what, in the 40s? So that's really

the opportunity cost. If that guy, you're spending a second round pick on doesn't hit and he's not a league winning tight end, it's kind of a wasted pick, not kind of. It is a wasted pick because you could have had a running back there. You could have had a receiver there. But instead, you got a middling tight end like Sam Laporta, who you drafted in the second round. And he averaged 10 points a week.

It was tight end eight. Yeah, I think a lot of people thought this was ridiculous pricing, but it stuck all, it stuck all year, like all summer. I'm looking at my our top 200 PDF and I had McBride over LaPorta, one spot over. And yeah, so the ADP for Laporta was 25. McBride was 46, but I had McBride with like eight more points and I ranked them over. So in retrospect, yeah, like we probably do, by the way, another little lesson here is since there are only four to six needle movers, like, you know, we probably do want to get one early.

And in retrospect, McBride was way better by than LaPorter. Now, of course, McBride will, now they'll be flipped. You know, McBride will be going 25 and LaPorte will be going 46. So we'll have to figure out are they worth it there? I would lean to yes on McBride, but that's a big ask, even for McBride to support the top 25 rankings. you know what I mean? Got to score more than one freaking touchdown.

I'll say that. Speaking of touchdowns, scoring for the touchdowns were up, but the targets at the position were down, John. It was a weird year. I don't even know what to totally make of it because of what you just said, which is what I kind of noticed, because I thought with the way things are going, the tight ends are in business, too high safeties,

you know, preventing the big play, leaves you a vulnerable down the seam, you know, that kind of stuff, which did play out here and there, but I think it ultimately helped the running game more. The running backs were aided more by the way the defenses are playing. Maybe the defense has made some sort of adjustment after 2023, because that was the first year where things really kind of slowed down

with the high prevalence of two high safeties. Maybe the defense has kind of figured out a way to, to stay that way while also doing a little bit more of a better job on the tight ends and ultimately the running backs ate this past year. And we hope you guys are going to eat all offseason long over at fantasy points.com. And this is a good podcast here, John. We got into it chopping it up back and forth. And we don't go anywhere.

The offseason, we're here. Check the fantasy points feeds. We've got all kinds of great content. You want podcasts. I was talking with our guy Thomas Tipple before the show. Oh, do we got podcasts here at fantasy points.com all offseeds, whatever your taste. If you're an analytics nerd, you're a dynasty guy, you're way into the film, you're into rookies, whatever the case may be, we're going to have it for you, betting the world's your oyster.

There's no better place to be, John, than Fantasy Points.com. You've created a monster, my friend. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, this was a very good podcast. I do like, you know, taking stock. It hurts a little bit. a whole year was a mixed bag. Got a lot of good things right.

Got a lot of good things wrong. Still just trying to get better. I'll try again this year in year 31. See if I can get a little bit better. All right. We'll get better next week, folks. We'll see you next time for the Fantasy Points podcast.