Fantasy Football Daily - 2025 Dynasty Fantasy Football Wide Receiver Rankings & Tiers Strategies! | Dynasty Points

Episode Date: February 19, 2025

Leave a comment and let us know who you're ranking higher. Dynasty fantasy football never sleeps, so you shouldn't either. Wide receivers can be tricky to buy, but Dynasty Points is going to talk through their WR ranks and top WR strategies for buying. What I Learned Article Here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/nfl/articles/2024/fantasy-football-takeaways#/ Dynasty Trade Video Here! - https://youtu.be/nkLsM3MJ6bU Sign up here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans Where to find us: http://twitter.com/DynastyPts http://twitter.com/ElNostraThomas http://twitter.com/RyanJ_Heath http://twitter.com/Andy_Buckler FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So today on Dynasty Points, we are diving right into how and why we're. we rank and where they end up. Let's dive right into it. Yes, wide receiver is a position that is probably the most overdrafted, the most held on to for the longest periods of time. They have, in my opinion, the most data to sift through every week. It can be hard to put it all into context. Today, Ryan Heath, Andy Buckler and myself, the host, Thomas Tipple, four dynasty points.

We are going to go over not just our rankings because there are so many different places that you can go and watch and listen to wide receiver rankings just given to you in order. Why not give you a little bit more than that? Of course, you need to like and subscribe

and leave a comment when this episode is over. it helps us a lot. Today, guys, we have wide receiver ranking strategies, the hardest players to rank. And with that, we are going to talk about the nesting doll theory a little bit and update it. Wide receiver tiers with rookies. We're going to finally tap into where these rookies might settle in for our tiers and where they're going to end up with the combine, I believe, happening next week. It's going to be important to really start diving into that. And of course, we're going to talk about wide receiver ranking disparities between us.

And we have something at the end of this show that I think has been long overdue in conversation. Talking head content versus actionable advice and information and how to tell the difference. We're breaking down what matters and what doesn't. That sounds like a hell of a show to me. If you agree, again, leave a comment. I want to start this off with wide receiver ranking strategies because I've always said on dynasty points for this show since it started, Ryan, that it is three people who play the game completely different. That was when it was myself, Jacob, and Billy. Now there's more of us in the mix.

It is myself. It is you. It is Andy. It is Jacob. It is Lucas. Five people that do Dynasty Points podcasts that all play the game completely different. So we all have different strategies. for ranking wide receivers.

Can you shed some light on how you approach ranking wide receivers? Yeah, absolutely. So I think the first thing I need to make clear is I think rankings are kind of dumb, just in general for Dynasty, just a rank order in preference of one, two, three through however many, it's 90 deep on the site. You can go look at my rankings. I do it.

I think they're dumb. I do it, right? I'll give you the list. My list is out there. You can go find it if you're a fantasy point subscriber. But kind of the reason I bring that up is because I don't think almost ever that when you're actually trying to make a trade in dynasty or deciding between two players, even in a startup or in any context, that your thought should be which player do I prefer just in a vacuum,

right? Because rankings have to apply to everybody that's going to open them. I have to do my best to make it quote unquote in a vacuum. There are no vacuums in Dynasty. Your team is either going to be telling you, I should be preferring productive assets right now, or I should be preferring like value assets right now, if we just want to loosely demarcate between those two terms, right?

So after kind of the elite tier of wide receivers, it has to split off into either these are receivers that are expected to score more fantasy points per game than the other ones in their tier, right? This would be like your AJ Brown would be a solid example, fairly ranked highly up. He is probably going to average more fantasy points per game than somebody, at least immediately, than somebody like a Rishi Rice who is injured, has suspension concerns, right? There are these different things that are like kind of working into each player's value, right? A.J. Brown is ranked highly because he scores points.

Rashi Rice is ranked highly because he could score points in the future. We expect him to score points in the future. We expect him to maintain value. He's tied to Patrick Mahomes, all of these reasons, right? So there is no real way to perfectly kind of rank all these disparate factors, right? So what you should be doing as an actual dynasty manager with an actual dynasty roster is, as I said at the beginning, understanding what type of assets are currently most valuable to your goal and to what your goal is. Are you in a rebuild?

Are you trying to just constantly build and accumulate value? are you trying to move from a rebuild into contending right now? Should you be flipping these value assets for some of these more productive assets? We talked all last week about whether it makes sense to do that at the running back position this time of year. You could have probably just as lengthy of a conversation wide receiver position strategy-wise. Does it make sense to do it now or wait until before the season during the season? So yeah, these are all the things that are kind of in my mind. when I'm doing rankings.

And I guess this has just been a long way of saying, like, don't take the literal rankings that seriously. It should be a guide in terms of kind of where I have every guy, but on different teams, I could just be straight up choosing different guys over each other, depending on the context. I'm muted this whole time.

I apologize. I was typing. Thanks, thanks, TD. You definitely on the mic stuff enough before the show that I thought it was on. I was typing. No, that was me.

Being muted. Oh, my God. I was typing. That's me. That is hilarious. Thank you, chat, for pointing that out. Oh, my God. So I'll just repeat what I had said.

I said, Papachino, as a Canadian that lives in the same city as Jacob is from, I need to move up those rankings because I'm offended. I feel like I need to re-point that out. And that being said, Andy, when you approach wider senior, because as I was trying to say, you love wide receivers more than you love fat, awful running backs, which is saying a lot. You love wide receivers more than I love round 10 starting quarterbacks.

So I know you probably take the most care when it comes to ranking wide receivers. What's your approach? Yeah. So my approach really is it's how I would draft them, like for the most part obviously like ryan said there's different things to take into account but my rankings are based on like how i would draft them and what i would do with it like if you see in startups i'm i'm gonna draft off of these and i do really care about them like i really do take a lot of time especially when it comes to receivers like you said so there's a lot of things

that go into it but mainly it's how i would draft age contract situation and quarterback but But it's ranking, we kind of like go through a thing where we see like, oh, I had this player ranked here and I drafted them there. And now you like you wouldn't do that. I think we do take it a little too literal. Rankings matter for sure. But they're more of a clicks thing. Like they're really good content. They're easy to make content out of. So that's what it is. You should have, you should really understand tiers. Rankings are important. But you need to understand tiers within the rankings, like when it gets to, especially wide receivers, like once you hit 15 to the end of the top 24, there's not much difference. Like even, especially this year, right,

where there's not a lot of, a lot of those super aging point wide receivers are aging out. So not even in the top 24 anymore. So it used to be like Tyreek Hill, Devante Adams, those guys, they would be in the top end of the top 24 and you have to decide if you want to pick one of those players to where you would go at your team or you would pick a guy like in years past like an Addison, right, who didn't really do it yet, but he's young, he's a value, or you could pick, he's a value pick, or you could pick a guy like Tyreek Hill in the six round last year to decide where you want to go. Now there's like all the elite elite elite points guys, like elite aging point guys are all, they all aged out for real, like Duante Adams, Mike Evans,

Tyree Kill, none of those guys are in top 24 is the only guy you really have to decide on that right now, like that's in the top 24, like is AJ Brown. He's only 27. He'll be 28 to start the season. So it's harder now to do rankings, I think, because once you get out of that top 10, it's like a lot of just projection and you need to find out what stats you care about the most and what you think actually matters to success because now we had, we've had a lot of good wide receiver drafts over the last couple years, and they're all just starting their careers where that makes sense, right? So we don't even know what half of these players are. So I think that's, I think that's what kind of like we knew when devonte adams was 28 we knew what he was tyrie kill all those guys now

they're in their 30s that we don't have to draft them anymore in the top 24 now we're to find who the next crop is like is it addison is it oh dunze like we'll talk about those guys but they're like kind of the most dangerous part of fantasy in general and that's where rankings in this last like two years of rankings are really dangerous and gets you in like a lot of trouble because like I said so many of those guys, like, really, like, after top 10, even some guys in the top 10, are all the same where it becomes like this, like, pissing contest where it's like, oh, I had this guy here. I was higher on him than everyone else. When realistically, like, it doesn't really matter.

It's not really going to matter, to be honest, in the grand scheme of things, if you had Xavier Worthier or Devante Smith ranked higher. It doesn't matter. There are wider super twos that aren't going to be difference makers. It doesn't really matter. But this is a Twitter thing that we're going to have this argument. It's like, oh, well, you had Smith. overhand. It doesn't matter. And I think where we're at receivers is kind of like we're in a

funky spot, if that makes sense, because they're all, like I said, all the old guys are aging out and all the new guys, we don't even fully know what they are yet, if that makes sense, if that even answered the question. It does. I mean, it's a good approach to have is being aware of that, doing rankings in the order that you draft them is not even something that I would do because I think there's too much nuance that goes into it every draft board. Strategy and the people you're playing against, the guy that draft seven running backs and the other guy that draft six quarter, and the guy that goes bully tight end and whatever guy that drafts 10 straight wide or said like every draft you're going to have to approach differently because every

build is different and I think that's the same for existing teams I when I do my rankings I tend to approach it in the lens of I want young elites but I also want to win that's something that I struggle with a lot I put points scored probably too much into my ranking strategy as well as coordinator situation I think

has become more dominant in my ranking strategy than ever before because Ryan, we've seen it. We know what coordinators and coach types and systems it matters.

As much as how JSN scored points last year pissed me off with this anywhere near two minutes and 40 seconds while they're trailing in the end of either half, he's getting five catches for 65 yards in each half and probably a score on at least one of those two minute drives. It drove me nuts because he was just getting basically checked down running back, like level targets.

But it kept working. So when they start scoring points like that, you have to move them up. So that's why Rishi Rice has been moved up. That's why so many of these guys get moved up because we see the production. And then I look at some younger guys that people keep telling me are elite like Marvin Harrison Jr. or Romadunze, George Pickens and Chris Alave, and I struggle ranking them because I am aware that they just don't score enough points to justify them being where other places have them. We're going to get into the content versus actionable at the end of this, which I can't stress enough.

you're going to want to stick around for. But I have a hard time with that specifically. So that has affected my ranking strategies now. Now I care a little bit more about points scored and offenses and then the longevity they're in. You can be 22. Just being 22 and having that top 10 potential doesn't get you into my top 10 anymore. I got to see it.

And we'll talk about that with the nesting doll thing. I get a lot of comments on my nesting doll stuff. we're going to kind of update it a little bit here well we made it to the first bit with one mute and uh not really any long-winded answers so shadowed us we're on great pace that's a little bit of a look at three different people's strategies four rankings if you are trying to learn how to rank yourself and get into that habit which i think is a good habit to do you like buck said that though. I think my favorite part of that was that you can get in trouble just trying to have a

pissing contest of I was more right than this person was. You had them two spots higher. That's a great point. And I wanted to point that out. Needed to. Quick break. And when we come back, we're going to talk about some of the hardest players to rank because wide receivers, like we just said, kind of annoying to rank. So sit tight. We'll be right back. Okay. The idea that The reason that I wanted to do this one was because of a conversation that Ryan and I had earlier in the week. It's because we were trying to figure out the new version of the what-if man. Right?

Justin Herbert is the quarterback version of what if? What if he just had an elite wide group? What if he had the right offense? What if he just... He's that guy. He's the poster child. Who is it at wide receiver? And it was...

I think we came up with DJ Moore. was like the perfect what if guy. And now we kind of need a new one. So we were kind of thinking, is it, is it Chris Alave? And I think it's important to talk about Chris Alave because he is a guy

that has held dynasty value for years. We've always been told his peripherals were really good. He's been a top 12 ranked wide receiver for a while. He hovers between rounds four. and six consistently very DJ more like whereas oh if he only had X and X he would be so good with this and this now he didn't hit the DJ more points per game keep that in mind but he was the hardest player for me to rank because I don't want him but I also won't sell him for scraps he is now

I said this last year I said he's at the very top of the list of players that if he does not produce again he's going to hold value but he's going to borderline on getting to Nesting Dull territory

and he's there now he's just there he's going to live there until now he he's not getting out so he's the leader of that tier of player because he's just a wide receiver that scores the same as like 20 others

he's not even the best wide receiver on his own team in peripherals that's Rashid so what if it's the system what if it's the quarterback what if it's not getting concussions what if you know two years he is the hardest player for me to rank and I love him I absolutely love him

but I had to face the music he's wide receiver 21 for me right now I yeah I have him below George Pickens that's kind of a toss up Devanta Smith I can't put him him over him. Roma Dunesay, there's the potential thing. T. Higgins scores too many points. Marvin Harrison Jr., I gotta give him another year. Rishie Rice, 17 points per game as a rookie down the stretch. It's pretty damn good. Ladd McConkey is goaded. A.J. Brown scores a ton of points

as elite. Drake London, J.S. and Gerewell, there's no room anymore. But he holds value like it, like there is. And I can't do that. So he was the hardest player for me to rank. I, man, I couldn't do it. It was the hardest for me. He ended up at 21. What if, man? What if, right? Hey, maybe him staying a year late to go to school. Maybe it's a fair.

I don't know. What if? What if he just came out? He's not a late to Claire. That's right, Thomas. Yes, thank you for saying. No, I mean, you kind of just spoke out my entire internal dialogue on Chris Olive that I've been having for the last week or so. Except I think I,

have ended up even lower than you. I really do think that there's a non-zero chance that Rashid Shaheed is just a better wide receiver, or at the very least, a better fantasy asset. I don't expect the Saints' offense to look exactly the same. It was very much kind of like layups and threes under Kubiak. obviously Shaheed kind of running fairly hot on all the deep ball stuff in the beginning of the year. At one point, they had kind of also moved him into more of that like short and intermediate, like easy catches type of wide receiver for like a few glorious weeks before the entire Saints

offense got hurt. I was saying some really insane things about Rashid Shahid, circle like week six. So I do kind of think that now that like the dust has cleared, we're in the offseason. And yeah, just again, we're stuck with these two Saints wide receivers that have always both had really good peripherals. You said Chehiz was better. Olave was actually slightly better by yards per out run this past season. Got to just make sure that we're being accurate here, Thomas.

But no, I blame the injury. She heed. Sheid would have done it. had he not got hurt. That's my. But yeah, I mean, to your point, Shahid was a much less frustrating fantasy asset, for sure, when they were both healthy.

So that was at least nice. But yeah, I ended up a bit lower than even you were. I have him down at wide receiver 26. And the reason for that is I actually just have another one of these nesting doll wide receivers, as you say, or one of these what if wide receivers that, I just straight up prefer that the market has completely flipped from my opinion right now. So on Dynasty Data Lab right now, I'm seeing Crystal Lave is the wide receiver 19.

Again, I have them at wide receiver 26. In 26. Yes. And that's compared to Jalen Waddle at wide receiver 25 by ADP. I have Waddle up at wide receiver 22. And I know Jacob and I have bold. said on this program that we're done defending Jalen Waddle, but apparently we have now gotten to the point where I have to defend Jalen Waddle again, because if we're what-ifing, if we're telling all

these stories to ourselves about, well, what if the quarterback play improves, what if the offense is just higher volume? There's a lot more compelling what-ifs for Jailen Waddle this year. We have seen him have significantly more elite peripherals than Chris Olive ever has. We have seen Jalen Waddle actually have a wide receiver one season by fantasy points per game. We have seen Tyree Kill impregnate 13 different women and say that he's like done with the dolphins. Not sure where he's on that right now exactly. That seemed to be kind of flip-flopping a little bit on whether his head is even in the game.

Whether he like wants to be playing football is kind of how I'm interpreting it. But yeah, what if Tua stays healthy? what if the dolphins fix all their offensive line problems? What if Tyree Kill retires or gets traded? That's a lot of actually compelling what ifs for a Jalen Waddle, right? There really aren't that many that are actually feasible for Olavay. Like what if the Saints like stumble upon a star quarterback in the draft? What if, yeah, I don't know.

It's really hard for me to craft super bullish narratives about the Saints' offense. at least from where we're sitting right now. I think Kelly Moore is a competent play caller, but that's kind of where my excitement stops. Like this roster in this franchise is still kind of just stuck in the salary cap hell of their own making. I don't know like what amount of flexibility they can actually have in addressing all of this. I'd expect them to be a bit faster paced, I guess, than they were with Kubiak, some higher play volume overall probably that should bring up at least the overall routes run

but yeah i i can it's way easier for me to get excited about oh we've seen mike mcdaniel be a genius and call a geniusly efficient offense not even not long ago so yeah if if i'm what ifing all day then get just give me wattle i i agree that's why he was the hardest for me to rank man he's just what if man it it's it's tough because there's just so many he's a good i don't don't want him as my number two wide receiver for my team, but I have him ranked at 21, so he would be. But it's, it's hard. He was, he was a difficult click for me. Concussions, the team scenario, the offense, the quarterback, everything I talked about in the last segment about how I've adjusted my wide receiver rankings.

He is fighting all of it. Point scored, quarterback, system potential, et cetera. It's tough. It is tough. It's very tough. so he was the toughest one for me i'll go to buck so you can stop tweeting at me buck who is the hardest player for you to rank because again i know this is the painstaking process for you yeah for me i think it's uh it's gonna be like a i i didn't want to take the easy way out but i

said well it's roma doones i didn't know where to put him i had him at wider super 20 which i still think it's like honestly ridiculous and i didn't i thought all those players there. I just, like, didn't know what to do with them. They're all the kind of, like, what if, man's, for real. And I don't want to completely ignore the value on O'Donzee with what his, like, what his value is in leagues. He is a fourth-round startup pick. He does consistently get traded at the top 17 wide receiver value, which I disagree with. But I think putting him down at, like, wide receiver 30 is just malpractice for me, because I would never draft him that. I would start looking at him in the wide receiver 20s, even though reluctantly, but I would because that's just how I draft.

But what O'Donze did is rookie season, he had a 14.2a dot, 17.3% target share, 18% targets for outrun, a 1.37 yards route run, and 19% first read. When you look at that rookie season, I mean, it's really poor. And we can make excuses about him, about, you know, the offense he was in, the coordinator he had, maybe even the role. I think the role is probably bad, considering the fact that he, I don't think he should be a guy that should be operating at a 14-yard a dot. Don't really think that will change.

We can't just think that will happen, especially just because based on his build, right? We do this in the NFL, even NFL coaches do this, right? Like, he's a big body receiver, even though all his metrics tell us that he's probably a better slot player. You're a big body receiver. Go play outside. We'll go get a little man to play the slot.

It's just how it goes, right? I doubt we'll see a lot of him in the slot maybe. You know, they have Ben Johnson. Maybe he'll prove me wrong. but drafting him like just ranking him in general is hard for me because i really think he should probably be in the 30s but you don't want to argue you don't want to ignore the college stuff some of the college stuff was a little flawed but still you know an elite college prospect with you know elite draft capital tied to an offense that we should be happy with we should like

caleb williams second year quarterback a really elite prospect as well and then they have dj more who's you know definitely a great target earner he'll be there they'll do something at wider three. I'm assuming it won't be Keenan Allen again. If it is, that honestly might end up up being a problem for him because he outproduced them, 33 years old, outproduced him towards the second half. So with me, O'Donze is a player that I have at 20, but I just, I don't know. I think you have to make a bunch of excuses to kind of get there. That's why I have worthy, I have worthy above him, which is probably like a super hot take. But I think both of those players you have to make excuses for, like kind of with their, like with their role and what happened

in this season. With Worthy, it's a lot of just, he had like six or seven misplays. He hits three of of those things look at him differently. We could say he missed them because it was, you know, it was ability. We could say it was some of the throws of Patch of Mahom, some of them were worthy. But I could paint this picture in my head that in a year from now, Rishie Rice is getting suspended or not back from the injury because it's a multi-ligament worthy. They're not going to really add it receiver. They don't have any money unless, you know, Kelsey retires and, you know, they restructure Mahomes contract for the 19th time and they create money. I would say, say I would say most the odds are they go into the season with a cheap Hollywood brown type

beat, Rishi Rice and worthy. And I can paint this picture where he's going into year two. We saw his role increased towards the second half of the season. We know that happens with Andy Reed rookies. We know he ran a lot of routes in the beginning of season. So we could say like, oh, that's a false narrative. But we do know that he does that with rookies. He did or Rishi Rice. He's done it in the past, even in Philadelphia. So I could paint this picture where if I think of a player that has like a lease, like a difference making ceiling, I think it's worthy. And O'Donzei just has nothing in his, in his peripheral. Peripherals at Tell us that he's good. And he also doesn't have patch him homes or any read with them. So that's where I go with

O'Donzee because I think it's, I think it's a fool's bet, to be honest with him. And what's kind of really saying, we've talked about O'Donzee multiple times, but I think it's really saving Oduonzee. is the fact that JSN last year had incredibly poor peripherals as a rookie, was an elite prospect, the number one prospect coming out of his class, flopped almost face-planned as a rookie didn't. He mean, he didn't face-plant technically, but very close, really bad rookie season. All the peripherals told us JSN was bad. He got tanked into the sixth round, you know, into the wider zero-twenties,

which once once he got into like the Debo-Samiel types where it's like, you either pick upside or you pick the aging vet, that was good. Like, you can click JSN there. But now you don't get that same discount with O'Donze, especially we're not going to just, as this bearer's hype continues to happen because it will happen. They just got, you know, the best head coach candidate they have, okay, of all that. So I think with, like, I don't know, I think what O'Donzee, it's a JSN thing.

We think that just because JSN hit after everyone said he was bad, that O'Donze is going to hit, and I think it's probably pretty unlikely. And if O'Dunzee doesn't hit and he has another bad season, he's falling into like, where he's like a ninth or tenth round pick that's like the seat the floor for him is way too low and like what you can get if he hits like what do you win if you win with him is just not big enough to really take the risk there on clicking him in the fourth round or even drafting him in the 18 so 18 overall so i really struggle with him in general and i think like this is something that's going to probably make me look really dumb in a year if he hits because that's like my biggest take is thinking oh dunezay might

be bad but i'm curious what you think about him yeah everything you said to me makes a ton of sense we're doing the, well, he's going to be the power slot and the slot in the Ben Johnson offense is going to be amazing and it is risky. You're right. He's a really bad season away to kind of be in the in the Jameson Williams, Quentin Johnston, year three category. They all had different reasons why they were there, but players kind of give up on these wide receivers a lot faster than they used to. Nobody wants to buy the upside prospects of an adunzee if he's bad

year one and year two. They're not going to pay any reasonable price. They're always going to want to get it for lower. So you do kind of have to make that decision a lot faster. Everyone wants the deal now. I think we talked about this on the last show, Ryan, where fantasy managers are just

getting smarter. They're adapting more. They don't want to blindly, he was a first round pick. I'll just pay for him. It'll it'll work out eventually because there's just so many wide receiver options. So I think you're right in that. Yeah, I was really just going to agree. And I was just going to make one quippy remark since we're comparing like,

Worthy, JSN, none of these guys were efficient on the outside at all. I was just noticing this at like as you were talking about 1.4 yards per outrun from the outside for Xavier Worthy this year, the exact same for JSN and Odunzee down at 1.1. So, yeah, I don't know. I feel like to some extent we're kind of relying on these manufactured touches for all of these guys, none of them, at least in the numbers, have shown that they can go outside and, like, win on real routes against outside NFL corners. And that just makes me a little scared when we're talking,

about consensus top 18 dynasty receivers. I do have JSN quite a bit above the other two. But yeah, I don't feel great about any of them. Like these are not guys I really want to be clicking in startups. But yeah, I mean, I'm with you like on the Ben Johnson thing or I guess not with you. I'm with like the community on the Ben Johnson thing. Yeah, the idea of like the Ben Johnson power slot is very intriguing. But, yeah, we really don't know.

It could be a player not currently on the Bears roster. It's really hard to, I think, prop up a player's dynasty value based on that. Yeah, you're not wrong. And that's why I can understand that he was such a difficult player to rank. He's tough. I have him at 18. Buck, you have him at 20. Theo at 16.

Ryan, you're right there with him at 20. John hasn't ranked a little bit higher than us. so I'm looking forward to talking to Mr. Hanson about all that, obviously, can't wait that I have into those conversations. All that being said, Ryan, who was it for you that made you struggle a little bit?

Yeah, so I mean, my real one was Olive, but you stole it, so that's fine. So we can talk about, why don't we talk about DJ more a little bit since you brought him up? And I do think it's,

it kind of connects to a lot of these conversations that we've been having. So more, as you said, has been his entire career, like the what-if player. I feel like we've just seen him deployed in so many different roles and so many different systems that I don't really know what to think of him. He has always kind of been a very much like a plus after the catch that fairly consistently like his yards after the catch per reception numbers have been very good. they have spiked generally when a coach says, I want to make it a point to get the ball in his hands

and let him run and make stuff happen. That was kind of the case in the Thomas Brown era, like post week 12 with the bears, where Moore was just racking up almost all of his targets, just behind the line of scrimmage. They would just throw it to him on a screen or on a design look and say, okay, good luck, run with it. gave him a great floor didn't give him a great ceiling obviously aside from like the two games

that they actually used him downfield but kind of what this tells me is no coach has looked at DJ Moore yet and Ben and said oh I know I know exactly what to do with him like we've seen him kind of deployed in like this flanker roll we've seen him kind of try to be an X nothing really has seemed to fully click I mean unlike some of these other receivers we've talked about. There have been periods where DJ Moore is legitimately averaging 16 to 17 fantasy points per game or more. But I mean, unfortunately for us, a lot of that was literally just deep bombs from Justin Fields, which is funny that Justin Fields was like the best thing to happen to DJ Moore that we never even knew or realized. So yeah, ultimately like weighing all of this,

I do think he is clearly the best receiver on the Bears right now. this is an offense I'm generally optimistic about, right? Like I want it. I think like the Ben Johnson bump is at least kind of real. Like we want to factor it in certainly. So yeah, I've just ended up with him between my two favorite players, Xavier Worthy and Chris Olave. I have DJ Moore right at 25.

Yeah, solidly in that nesting doll tier. But I guess kind of unlike an Olave, or a Metcalf. There is like a world where more leapfrogs, at least production-wise, into, as we were saying, like that 16, 17 fantasy points per game, borderline, wide receiver one. I think he's more likely to do that than some of these other players, but he's a few years older, 27 right now.

He's kind of at the point where we aren't saying what if anymore. it's like this is a player that could have his best season of his career and not gain any dynasty value right i think i think he is at that point that we're sick enough of dj more so yeah there's not really any like value helium kind of working into his ranking going back to all the different factors i was talking about at the top of the show that we have to kind of balance so yeah he he just ends up there with a lave for me i'm a little bit more willing to to click his name just because it does feel like you're getting more of a discount kind of on the production than you are with Olavé currently.

But yeah, it's still, he was really tough to rank for me. I had to think about it a lot. Well, we're going to get into it with the tier situation in the next segment here. But that's why it was important to talk about the strategies for ranking. Then who was, who actually challenged us? and then really put that in the context with tiers next, especially when we talk about the rookies coming in, because you're going to have to make these decisions.

These decisions are coming up. They're happening right now, even in drafts and in trades. And like TD said, DJ Moore also seems very getable in trades. He is. Now you're making a bet between do you click on Adunzei or do you do my favorite thing and just take who's cheaper

and go and get DJ more and how will that pan out? what the risk to the reward is. Like Buckhead mentioned, all of this stuff matters so much. It makes it impossible to use linear rankings, which was the base to the entire conversation to begin with. That's what Ryan you led off with, is what we call progression on the show, by the way.

You tie it all in. We're professional sometimes. You can't think in a linear fashion with trades. You can't do it with ranks. You can't do it with Rocks. with roster construction. You can't. The NFL changes too much.

Post the, you mentioned the Justin Jefferson season. I was on a podcast. I wish I remember which one it was. And the conversation between DJ Moore and AJ Brown, how similar they are. No, they're not.

Like, I didn't think Caleb Williams was an upgrade because I didn't think Justin Fields was that good at quarterback, but you know what he was good at? Finding his guy and throwing him every ball possible. Every ball that he could throw. he threw it to one guy. Quarterback that can spread it around and do other things.

Does the volume? When you have an outlier, it's more often than not, they're going to regress to the mean. And it's kind of what ended up happening again. So you're right. DJ Moore is the what if of wide receivers. Do you remember?

You did, before we move on, you did have an all what if team. I believe it was Herbert Moore, Tony Pollard, and who? Yeah, so, yeah, Justin Herbert. Tony Pollard at running back. I don't know. We might get,

you could argue for like a Marshawn Lloyd or a Blake Corum as the what if running back maybe, but perhaps we get into that. Antonio Gibson. Yes. Oh, yeah. So I'm trying to go like very modern, but yes,

if we're going like the last five years, absolutely Antonio Gibson. Yeah. So there, yeah, some selections. Tight end. Who have a tight end?

Tight end. How things. I think that's what I wanted to say. I think it might be Dalton Kincaid now is the what if tight end. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

We're on two tight ends. Yeah, OJ Howard comes up a lot. It turns out when you're analyzing tight end athleticism and hit rates and all that. So, yeah, unfortunately have been thinking a lot about a lot about OJ. Howard lately. This is why the athletic tight end conversation pisses me off so much. And why last year I was so in on like guys like McBride and like guys who aren't the athletic freaks being like, even Zach Ertz just being, you know, absolutely viable. It's because the athletic guys, there's a ton of what ifs. Gerald Everett.

Gerald. Gerald. Garrett, uh, Kellen Winslow Jr. Uh, we can't. Let's not talk about that one. I'm just saying he was,

he was a player that like, Fant is another one, right? There's just a ton of these freak athlete tight ends that, for better or worse, or prison, uh, don't end up panning out.

And it, it, I don't know, man. It's the, Ryan, I showed you a text from like 2020 that I'm going to bring up with Jacob

the next time I see him when we talk about this rookie tight end class but Mike Ysicki was like Dynasty tight end four or five after his semi breakout. It wasn't even a legit early breakout like we're getting now and if you bought that it died. You had nothing. You were

holding nothing. So these like dreamy freak athletic tight ends so rare pan out and then this is like a total side thing that was not like didn't even mean to get into this we're going to get into it we talked about like jacob was mentioned that the wide tight end was dying and then now you add in the fact that these athletic guys already have a hard time hitting and it sucks and the best part is that we've been chasing this phrase the Travis Kelsey upside.

Travis Kelsey's not a freak athlete. He was never the super athlete. He was never the Kyle Pitts generational. I should say, since you're inviting me to talk about this now, Thomas, and take over the show to talk about the thing I've been writing about for the last week and a half. If you look at certain metrics, yes, Travis Kelsey is in the 90th percentile of my model. I will say that. And I would consider that a hit, considering he,

fell to the second round and was not highly regarded really at all as a prospect. Maybe I might be cooking up something special on Travis Kelsey front with some of these other names you're saying. I'm actually very excited for this to hit the site, which should be extremely soon if you're listening to this episode. I will have an article kind of breaking down my whole process and all of my thoughts on athleticism. How much does it matter before the combine? So at some point next week, that article will also hit the site. You'll get a ton of my thoughts kind of on what Thomas is saying right now. Definitely some points of disagreement.

Yeah, like didn't even mean for it to fit in perfectly. But I'm just saying like the, we got some people who have been hurt in the chat right now, Lerius Green. Chris, Chris Herndon. Yeah. This is that. This is fun for me because all these names have just been flashing on my screen recently and I just like yes okay thank God these are actual real players that

other people like have all these crazy fleeting thoughts about that I've been tortured by for last week and a half so this this is a little bit uh it's a little bit therapeutic for me and we couldn't get through a dynasty point show without going off on a side tension on something that completely didn't matter or was on the show sheet but I'm sorry but I have to go back to Antonio I guess for a second they called him Washington DC CMC like That wasn't his fault. That's the most ridiculous fantasy football nickname in the last 10 years. Not even close.

Washington, D.C. C.M.C. Yeah, that's pretty brutal. That wasn't his fault. They talked to a coach who said something ridiculous into a microphone, and everyone took that and ran with it. That wasn't Gibson's fault. Gibson's fault was just being a bad running back.

That he might have been able to help. But the nickname and expectations, to his credit, not totally his fault. But yeah, he's definitely the king of the running back. What If for sure. He was a third round rookie pick, too, by ADP, and you got bumped up so fast. So fast. He was the top 10, like a top eight dynasty running back at one point. Yeah.

He had a three touchdown game versus Dallas on Thanksgiving, his rookie season. And that'll do it. National TV. He was a wrap. he was a round one redraft pick heading into his second season. I remember because I was taking him a lot. Ryan was one of them. I was there.

I was one of them. I love it. I love that so much. All right, let's take a break. Then we're going to go on to our tears after a quick little depressing tight end side adventure. Really depressing with some of these guys. I think Ruckard is going to be like another one.

There's too many. That's why I'm so afraid of Fanon. I am so afraid. So I'm still going to click them, but I'm afraid. That being said, quick break when we come back, we're going to talk about tiering these guys and adding some wide receivers to the conversation. We'll rehash a little bit of what I said last week

because I feel like I need to clarify with some of the questions I've gotten about it via DMs and Discord. So sit tight right back after this break. Let's talk about actually tiering wide receivers. Let's expand on the nesting. doll portion of this because that's kind of where these wide receivers

end up is in Russian nesting dolls. There are so many of them are the same. Buck, you had mentioned when you were talking about your ranks how, like after 10, until

you get to like 25 or 26, if you just look at what they put up, a lot of them are the same. So you can't have a tier of 15 wide receivers, but at some point, and then we didn't even get the opportunity to dive into where the rookies are going to end up because guys like Burden,

whatever you want to do with Travis Hunter, whatever you want to do with Tet, all these guys are going to get boosted because they're rookies. And then that's before the draft. Like I mentioned, no one knows shit right now. And if you're listening to podcasts, it's going to tell you that I know where Burden's going to be. Burden, he's going to be wide receiver 14.

You don't know. I don't care how much college football you watched. I don't care how many times you drafted him in C2C leagues. I don't care how many times you've put their data into a spreadsheet. You got no idea, considering where a lot of these are, the players are going to get changed just simply because of draft capital or landing spot or who's throwing them the ball is going to you don't have any idea so it's very dangerous to put the rookies in i need to clarify that from last week because people got real mad at me for that when i mentioned that people don't know

shit i'm not saying that you don't know if a player could be good or bad i am simply stating it is impossible for you to look me in the eye and tell me you know where to rank these wide receivers You don't. You don't know. You know about as much as a baseball scout going house to house trying to sign 18-year-olds because you know they're a superstar by 23. You don't know. You don't know.

We need more information. With that being said, we're going to introduce where we think, this is the exercise. Where do we think these rookie wide receivers are going to fit in to the, to these tiers, not where they rank, not, you know, specifically which wide receiver is going to be better than the other, but where are they going to fit into these tier breaks?

Because last year, I feel like we had some absolute, we knew neighbors, and Marvin Harrison Jr. basically got put into like tier two. Immediately off rip. And after like two games, Neighbors was in tier one and he never left.

For me anyway. And then you get, into where Marr ended up dropping, et cetera. Ladd moved up, BTJ moved up in a big way, all these guys moved up. This year it's not as clear. So I'll start with Ryan.

Where do you think these wide receivers are clustered? We can start with that. And then where do you think the rookies end up fitting in? Yeah. So I actually think this is a pretty easy question for me. Oh,

okay. So my tier one is seven guys. It's Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson, Puka, Lamb, neighbors, BTJ, Nico Collins, easy tier one. No rookie wide receiver is going to get close to that. It would be very surprising to me if that were ever like a take anywhere in the dynasty community. I think it's very clearly no one's touching that in this class. My tier two right now is Amonara St. Brown, Drake London, Ladd, T. Higgins, Garrett, Wilson, A.J. Brown. This is a tier that I feel good about. I'm clicking this tier in startups. I feel

varying degrees of good about all of them. I think all of them are going to produce this year. I think all of them can maintain dynasty value. I also don't really see any rookie wide receivers getting into this tier outside of if like Tet gets top five draft capital, which I think we've kind of come off as an industry in the last week, week and a half. That's kind of been push back on, I think, by like the Daniel Jeremiah's, that they'd be pretty surprised if that were to happen as it was being mocked a month ago. So outside of that, I don't think any of these wide receivers are getting there. Or, I mean, again, maybe in like the perfect Travis Hunter scenario where he's going top three and the team like swears up and down, he's a full-time

wide receiver and he'll barely play on defense. Maybe then he kind of sneaks into that conversation, but I really don't think so. I just feel very good about those first two tiers. And after that, I start to kind of hate the position. And that is always my cue to say, okay, this is where the rookies are going to start slotting in now. Assuming like what, like fairly average landing spots or draft capital, I'm going to start probably thinking. about them around here. We've got like our guys with warts. We've got like our JSNs, our Marvin Harrisons, our Rushy Rises, Zay Flowers,

George Pickens, like that kind of whole blob of guys. Then all the guys we talked about in the previous segment with the nesting dolls, I think are also kind of in this tier. So that's just where the position becomes very fluid for me. And where I think the rookies start slotting in. Like the more elite ones probably closer to the top of that. Luther Burden, I've been seeing a lot of Luther Burden's team recently. J.J. Zachoreson tweeted out today that he's his wide receiver won in his pre-draft model.

My understanding is that Burden has had like a lot of production on screens. So that's something that Scott Barrett and I go back and forth about every offseason is how much are we penalizing guys for getting all their production on screens? is it is it a good thing that teams want to throw screens to these players or is it showing that the production is fraudulent so that that's always kind of a back and forth so that i'm not sure at all where i land on that with lutherburden right now but that that'll be kind of interesting to get into particularly if he gets really good draft capital so yeah this this is where i'm starting to think about the rookies can i just i just want to put this out there on video and into podcasting.

I'm going to say it once this off season, and this is it. Ryan, get mad at me if I, if you hear me say this again. I will remember this. Luther Burden is not like Debo Samuel, simply because he catches screen passes, is good at Yak. That does not mean he can be in the Jaden Reed

in the Debo Samuel Light role. I've already seen it. I've already heard it. In multiple places. Stop it. We don't need the next Tyreek. We don't need the next Debo. This is my one time of year.

I'm going to tell you, stop it. I will just add to that that if you've been fading the next Debo for the last five years, you're doing pretty good right now. That has been a very plus CV move, is to fade the Debo Samuel comps, basically wherever they pop. up. So I don't think people even said it with Jaden Reed very much, which is funny, because now that now he is Vinny Debo. Yeah.

As a prospect, I don't think people really said that about him. At least-leviska-Shanault breakout season still coming next season. That's another one. Yeah, exactly. I don't even remember the name of the guy that the jet strapped last year. Malachi Corley. Yeah, Malachi Corley. Thank you. How did his rookie season go?

Yeah, exactly. Well, the Jets didn't do many favor, the one clip they posted of Malachi Corley, it was a screen pass and he juggled it while he was taking steps. And then their social media team was like, we can never post Malachi Corley again because I didn't see another one. So good, so good. But yeah, I just felt like I had to get that off my chest. I think John Ross for Tyreek. And I was going to say the next take is that, yes, it's the same thing with all the Tyreek, comparisons, but I didn't. That's Matthew

Golden this year. Matthew Golden's Tyreek this year going to the bills at 30. Oh, is he 5? Is that what I have to argue about on Twitter during the combine? Okay, thanks for the heads up. I'm excited for that then. Yeah, and he's going to Buffalo. This is the narrative. Daniel Jeremiah

has him 30 at Buffalo. Because the chiefs let worthy or because the bills passed on worthy and let him go to the chiefs and saw his speed, the bills know that they need their own version and they're going to draft Matthew Golden to pair with

Josh Allen. I already see the narrative. You're saying this in like the, you're saying this in the straw man voice, but teams unironically make decisions like this. I know. You're saying it in the straw man voice. Like that, that could very well be the justification that we hear. I know Bond is

faster, but yeah, Golden, that's going to be it. Just wait. Speedy receiver that they need downfield to pair perfectly with Josh Allen so he can throw five-yard crossers to Khalil Shakir more. Yeah, I can, I already see it. The narrative, I said, like, I, I, I've had the vision already. The second this mock draft got posted.

I'm like, this is going to be the narrative right here. You're right, though, getting back to the initial conference, we've got two sidetracks now. We're going to, we're going to get it back on. We're going to get a back on, but that's okay. I like your take where when it comes to your tears, when you start hating wide receiver, it's a really easy. to slot the rookies in, even if they're a little bit questionable, let's say.

Buck, where did you find the rookies starting to become in play for you in your tiers? Okay, so my tiers are a little different. My tier one is Jamar Chase and Justin Jefferson. My tier two is Neighbors in Puka. Tier three, Brian Thomas Jr., Monterey St. Brown, Garrett Wilson, Drake London. Garrett Wilson twice. I messed up whoever I have at eight. You really like Garrett Wilson.

I put Carol Wilson at 8 and 10. I also just want to cut you off Buck, just to defend my honor. I would cut into smaller tiers than I had. I just, you know, for the show, I only wanted to say I had two tiers of the time. But I think it's out of this if I need to. My tier four is Ladd, A.J. Brown, T. Higgins, J.N., Marvin, Rishi, Zay, and Smitty. And then my last tier, tier five, Xavier Worthy, Romo, Dunez. Jordan Addison, Jalen Waddle, George Pickens, and Josh Downs.

So I think with Tett, I think he could get into that tier three with Smitty and Zay. I think he can definitely get in there at the end of that. I think we're not doing like rankings. I think a common ranking for him as soon as he's drafted as long as it doesn't fall too far. Like I said a couple podcasts ago and you said too that it does seem like the general media, the general public's way higher on him than the actual like NFL right now. And then we saw it in Daniel Jeremiah's mock, which I don't want to talk about that. Because any mock that has the Giants passing on quarterback at three, I think is trash.

But he had... Aaron Rogers is going to be your starting quarterback, Buck. Haven't you heard? It's going to be Matthew Stafford. But they're drafting a quarterback at three regardless. Anyway. Trading three for Stafford. You would never see me on this podcast again.

I would never see me in a fantasy there again. I will say I've been enjoying this offseason as a Patriots fan because everyone, just mocks us will campbell and it's just very inoffensive to me i i it's hard to get mad about that's actually where i want hunter to go if i'm being honest i feel like they would actually use them both ways and intelligently that's like the one place i actually think you he would like thrive in the moment i'm scared of that but that that that's fine i'm just saying that's that i mean you're right though i mean why not get the tackle makes sense sorry buck carry on no you're good i think so i think uh i think Tet, as long as he gets the draft capital within the top 15.

I think a common ranking for him would be like widerster 14, which is not necessarily saying I would agree with it, but I think it would be common. So I think he could enter Tier 3 and then Tier 4, I mean Tier 4, sorry, for Tet. And then Tier 5, you know, that glob of worthy Adunze, Addison, all them. I think Abuka and Burden could jump that if we go on Dan and Jeremiah's mock again. And Buka was a first round pick to the Texans. like for me he would jump up pretty far he would jump up to that tier four with smitty and zay to me yeah and so we'll get like we'll get one like nut landing spot for one of these like i don't want to

say lower tier guys one of the like non-tete receivers and it would be like an easy tier breaker tier break for one of them so i think where it starts as like i said i think tet just based on all his pre-draft stuff and what we expect to happen i think he'll be in the fourth tier with a jr brown and all them, or not AJ Brown, yeah, AJ Brown and Zay, it's a long tier. And then tier five, I think Luther Burden, Abuka will go in there. And then maybe, you know, maybe there's some like random, you know, random guy that goes up really far. Like, like, a Trey Harris, maybe a lot of his, like hype maybe, because he looks really good. A lot of his profiles look really good.

If his hype kind of stands and he gets like top 40 capital to a really good team, I saw Daniel and Jeremiah last week tweet about him and saying, like, he really likes him. He's really starting to get interested in him. He has scouts talking about him. So there's a guy like Trey Harris and maybe someone else who could jump in. But I think safe is like those three guys and start to like the late teens to the to the 20s. I think where they'll start. I think the highest, like I said,

I think the highest would probably be Tett breaks like Widerstero 14 off the bat. Yeah, I can see it. I think it's going to take someone landing in an alpha spot. Like the Tett landing spot in Tampa is like, okay, that's like fine. Put them in Carolina like everyone really hoped for. That would be lit. I'd be into that. That could probably boost somebody.

You're right. It's probably going to take a landing spot to be a differentiator or Hunter. The team that drafts him comes out and goes, wide receiver, Travis Hunter, not athlete, not corner, not weapon.

If I hear he's an offensive weapon, I've shit myself. I'm terrified. Like, I would be scared. Do we care about the combine stuff with him? He said he's going as a corner. Does that matter at all?

So he was invited at that. We can talk about that. Players don't actually get to choose what they're invited as he was invited as a corner all hundred and do that also suggest though that NFL teams see him as a corner maybe yeah sure you can look at that way that's how that goes yeah i'd be i'm gonna put it on on tape before next week i think he works out at both i think he goes as a corner and i think he works out at both i think he finds a way to go and join the wide receivers if he wants to do that to me if he doesn't showcase

both, now I'm worried. But I feel like it's important to differentiate he was invited as a corner and he can either accept or decline. He didn't choose to go to the combine as a corner. I feel like that's a pretty big distinction for that. But we'll see if he reps out

at wide, because we see players do multiple drills in multiple positions at the combine, right? We've seen tight ends work with wide receivers. Right? We've seen linebackers with safeties. We've seen that. stuff before. So it'll be interesting to see what Hunter does. But his being invited as a corner doesn't scare me as much for fantasy. It's will he work out at all with wide receivers?

We're going to get into Combine stuff next week because we luckily, where we're positioned on a Tuesday gets us a lot of time to discuss. That's probably going to be the focus of the show. What to expect from the Combine, how to look at it, why it doesn't totally matter and not to freak out, etc. A little teaser for that. But not to me is with Hunter. To me, it's going to come down to what is he announced as. That's probably going to be my first real clear indicator personally. But next week, it's going to be important if he works out of both. If he doesn't, no, I'm scared. Sorry, I cut you off again. Carry on. Oh, me? Yeah. No, I'm good. No, I don't have. You're good? We're finished. All right. I

catch you off at the proper time then. For me, my tears are incomplete. And people have been really mad at me that I have not updated the tear sheet yet. It's, man, I'm struggling. I'll admit, I'm struggling. I'm struggling. I'm struggling. I'm and I can't sit here on a soapbox and tell everyone you don't know what you're talking about. You don't know where to put them. You don't know where to rank them. You're going to get into that in the next. The content talking heads versus actionable advice.

But I understand that you do need drafts are happening. I am going to sit down with that. Buck and I were supposed to get into it. We had some stuff come up this weekend. We could make it work. We are going to get that done. We're going to hopefully try to move that to this weekend. With that being said, my first tier is pretty obvious.

It's Chase Jefferson Neighbors. I feel like Neighbors needs to be there, even when they get Aaron Rogers. Then I've got Puka, Lamb, St. Brown. And then I have Brian Thomas Jr., Nico, Garrett, J.S.N., Drake, London. And then I have A.J. Brown, Lad, Rishi, T. and then I have the Marv Rome

Devanta Pickens Alave types and I have Judy in that one as well Waddle more all these guys that score kind of the same and the first rookie for me showed up in that tier

showed up to me in my four tier with the Addisons with the Judy like if Judy if Judy if Ted comes out and puts up like Addison rookie numbers, 900 and something, 7 rate, I'd be like, yep, if any of these guys came in and put up 80 for 1,000 and like four, I'd be like, yep, right there with all these other guys. Not enough to jump any of them, but not enough to boost them in that way. Derek Brown, shout out, he says, Lad, no matter what, he's up there. He's up there, man. Jail and Noel will be ranked too damn low.

To show that Tom is lower on Ladd-McConkey than I am in our current rankings. I have him as a top 10 dynasty wide receiver. Thomas is not just, Tom needs to answer for that to the people. Yeah, he's 13. We'll see. We'll see what happens. The what if man crowds for Justin Herbert.

Keep saying how he needs an elite wide receiver. So we'll see. We'll see what they add, right? He was really good. He was really awesome. He's really dope. Hard time putting him over AJ. Brown right now. Drake London

actually broke out. I'm willing to give him that. JSN, hard to ignore. I think if anything with lag, all these guys' asses in like every peripheral. I understand. As I get it. I get it. I fully understand. We'll see.

It's going to come down to what they add. It really is. To me, it really is. On an offense that we already know how I feel about that, that team and how much they run the ball. I mean, they draft a round one running back. I'm terrified. I'm terrified of that team. And again, we're going to go right back.

Oh, I thought we were going. Are they going to draft a wide receiver? I agree. I am more afraid of them drafting running back. Yeah, it's both. I think that is better than every receiver in this class. Sure. I'm saying if they add another wide receiver that draws those targets away,

that isn't a shit tight end, that isn't QJ, if they give up on that, it isn't Palmer on a team whose pass rate went up when their running backs got hurt, which is what it is. Herbert's dope, but he's Mr. What If? all of that and then you give them like a round one running back to play with terrified they get a round one running back and they bring back daubbins cheap terrified absolutely mortified especially if they bring in another so there's there's room there with lad that could go right there there's room so that's why i went there but you wanted me to answer for it i did he's at

13 i haven't i haven't forsaken his family name he's 13 i feel like that was going to be the first ranking disparity so we get we got that one out of the way Got out of the way. It's not even like a bad one. It's not like a buck, not even having Jaden Reed ranked. So, I mean,

that's disrespectful, disrespectful, disrespectful. Off my board. Yeah, TD, that was the wheel with Hampton.

So I found with these rookies, looking at the rookies coming in, and seeing them have a better year than the Addison's, etc. So that's where they sat with me, tier four.

That's where the conversation started for me. And that's where Buck has it. And I think you said you had one in tier three. So Thomas was beating you Heath. Don't take that. No, no, no,

let's, we're bringing it back. John said Buck is just chilling. Yeah, Buck's just, Buck's probably looking up wide receiver birthdays right now just to freshen up. I think we kind of settled where they're going to end up, though.

I think the wide receivers are going to settle up on the fourth tier. I think that's, I think that's where they're going to fit in. And someone's going to be mad about it. something's going to be real angry about it something's going to be like no I know you don't know what about I'm not going to sit no no no no come on Ryan I don't I don't want it I don't want to reopen this

I was going to ask what how mad you were going to be when we start projecting Ted McMillan or Luther Bertha and there when we start slotting them in based on their project their year one projections I can tell you how I feel about it in the target distribution I love it I'll tell you how I'm going to feel about it nothing because I'm not going to read it. That's going to go.

That's going to right over me. I'm not going to read it at all. So that's not going to affect me because I don't do it. Okay. Sorry, before we move on, Jacob Calloway in the chat saying it was cringe and insecure energy. I don't know if you're talking about me or Thomas.

I promise you that neither of us are insecure or like needing to dig into each other. Like seriously, we're all having fun here, guys. It's not that serious. Jacob, you should see our DMs, brother. If you think,

if you think that's bad. You should see our DMs. Weird energy. Nah, bro. We're just getting started. All right. So we know where the workies are going to end up. I'm actually nervous for the next thing after that.

Now that we've warmed up. Let's dive in. Quick break. I told you guys at the start of the show that we have something a little fun, a little bit not specifically fantasy related, really. just kind of how the conversations end up going on Twitter, in the community, on podcasts, in YouTube. We're going to break down how that's going to go in a minute. Sit tight and we'll be right back.

Okay. Now that everyone has had a breath and the chat is back and caught up with this, Hermes and said, as someone pointed out, that Thomas's hat is super dope. We have people of culture, not like Bucks, Yankees hat. You can get that trash off of my screen. You deserve Aaron Rogers for that.

Yeah, well, we're getting Vladdy, so no contract extension. You want to come up my team. Yeah, one soda left. Anyway, let's talk about what really needs to happen with actionable fantasy content. Why receive a ranking disparage? disparities. Are they important? Do they actually matter? Content versus actionable information.

We are in the point of the off season where a ton of podcasts and no, I'm not going to sit here and list specific podcasts. This isn't like a pick a fight with show X or show Y. A lot of podcasts, a lot of talking heads, they need content. And so yelling about, not just projections apparently, but yelling about what wide receiver should be ranked over the other, like Buck actually alluded to towards the start of the podcast. It's just for clicks. It's just for clicks.

So doesn't matter. Does it matter if you have lad at wide receiver 13 or wide receiver 10? Not really, in my opinion. But it's fun to yell about. But how is that actionable? And that can get you in trouble. So Ryan, when you look at what you,

you can now decipher from being just content and then being just actual information, how does it benefit you to know the difference and where can it get you in trouble, especially with things like disparities or disagreements on rankings and such? Yeah, so I think the further up the rankings you go, the more we're just doing content on average. Like that entire conversation about Ladd-McConkie, that was content, right? whether I get Lad in a league or not is going to have a lot more to do with what certainly the Ladd manager in that league thinks of him versus what I think of him,

right? So that I could be above market on a guy or below market on a guy and do the opposite thing if the owner in that league of that player is more extreme than I am against the market on that tape, right? Even in a startup, you can see Ladd could go as the eighth wide receiver off the board or he could go as the 13th wide receiver off the board, right? Most people that are consuming content are only in at most a handful of leagues. So yeah, overall, it's not going to make a huge difference who wins is Ladd the wide receiver

10 or the wide receiver 13 debate. Where I do think it can become actionable is further down the rankings where both players are easier to acquire in existing leagues and they are, it's not as big of a deal to reach for them by a round in a startup and kind of take a stand on a player, right? So I think the perfect example right now, and a guy I want to talk to you guys about in terms of a ranking disparity, is Joanne Jennings. So I have him as my dynasty wide receiver 37 and I will give both of you the very easy out of everybody after wide receiver like 25 or so is the same and I don't care Ryan. That's totally fine if you guys both want to say that to me. But this is a player who, yes, 27, probably not on like the value balloon whatsoever.

Like I don't think his value is going to shoot up. But a guy that. that is kind of consistently being available, like as like a fringe top 50-ish wide receiver has, at least age-wise, has a production window ahead of him. Brandon Ayuk, we are assuming, is not going to be 100% at the start of the season, certainly. Debo Samuel, kind of on washed alert. Yeah, on fat and washed watch.

John steps in and just plays, the Brandon Iucral ranks top 20 in average separation score. He's actually good at football. From what the numbers say, from what ass says, from what the film guys say, nobody really has impugned Juan Jennings to me the entire season. So I kind of don't get why he's just getting thrown down the dynasty rankings. Yeah, again, I mean, I understand that this is not a player that has that big of a value ceiling, but I don't really care about value sealing after we get past those first few tiers of wide receivers

we've been discussing on the show so far. At that point, I just want the production, especially even better if it's coming from a player that has at least a couple year window of plausible production. So, yeah, why not Joanne Jennings? Yeah, I am a wide receiver 37 right under my other favorite kind of value wide receiver right now for a few years like production window, Cortland Sutton. Yeah, what am I missing here?

So I'll send it to Buck first. Yeah, so honestly, I think I just missed Juan Jennings. Because I think he's a good value. I think he's one of the better picks on the board in like the 12th round of a startup, especially I tried to get him in the last show I was in, but as soon as I tried to get him, I was at the 12-7 and at the 12-5,

the Debo trade news, fake news popped and he went at the 12-5 right before me. But he's like super pushed down sleeper ADP too, so you don't even see his name. I think with John Jennings, I think he's a good value because he has a chance to, as we get into the summer with like Debo gets traded, whatever happens. Iuk not fully back on the field. There's a chance that he's like a fifth or like a five, six turn pick and a redraft league. And he has nowhere near that value in a dynasty league.

And he can just be like a really good like two year window flex player. He's also a player that's really hard to buy because, he's like a tweener player in value so he's hard to buy unless you are doing a bigger deal and you get him thrown into the deal. You mentioned, like you just like DM someone on sleeper and be like, hey, I'm interested in Jawan Jennings. It's really hard to just get a deal done like that. But no, I like I like Juan Jennings. I do say I want to like push back, not pushback, but Kyle Shanahan is a scam with certain wide receivers. We've seen it with he knows how to put players in positions to succeed and he knows how to make them succeed and score fantasy points.

and we've done the song and dance with receivers in the past, like Dante Pettis and, you know, other 49-year receivers that we get into the season. He's either throws one in the doghouse, whatever, they can make a trade. He's not really married to players. He's married to roles. And when they're in their role, it's good. But he has, like, I think scammed, especially, obviously a run-abets discussion. But he scammed people in the past where the metrics look really good.

And, like, the John Jennings metrics look really good, but they can look really good because of Kyle Shanahan. And we don't want to, like, start overrating the actual player, like, what the player is, I think. But where he's at in value, you know, I think it's really good. I don't know where I have him because I think I missed him. He should be in the late 30s, though, like in the 30s. I probably have him in the 50s because I'm bad at my job. But I should, he should be at the late 30s. So I agree.

I think he's a really good value. Just like I said, kind of a tough buy, because it's tough to buy players like him, unless you could. get him for a late second, but people don't want to really trade like that. So you have to kind of get creative if you want to acquire him. Yeah. And for me, it gets even easier. After week, after week 11, he had one game, where he had 28 points. I was on the multiple touchdowns.

And then he was mostly overlooked. It cost himself 1,000 yards, getting himself ejected. So that was smart. Down the stretch, he was almost unplayable, even. Could have cost you, actually, if you were. expecting anything out of him after week 11. And with that, you saw Pearsall get his opportunity, you score 29 points and then 19 points. So there is at least a world where Pearsall increases his role. Christian McCaffrey comes back and gets more targets maybe. George Kittle continues

to do his thing. I just think there's a world where the Joanne Jennings true breakout, where he was definitely helping you. I mean, to start a year, Jennings was like actually insane but that 47 point game did a lot of heavy lifting that was when no one was playing too right he had the get him a waiver pickup right he had the 47 and then he had basically 17 they had 26 and he had 9 8 then 29 right then 5 10 13 like his big games were very much worth it having him in that damn near wider receiver three around some other guys now granted i do have to update mine a little bit okay i have pierce all over him i have courtland sutton over him like i would just rather have corin

sutton than joan jennings i would rather have mcmillan i think he and pitman are are pretty similar i'd rather have james and williams i would rather have pierceau just trusting brett whitefield on that one in general, let alone having him ball out at the end. I think that this offense is completely unpredictable in terms of how we think they're going to get used. I don't think all that to say, I don't think he's a bad value. I just think 37 is tough. 37 is tough for me. I'm also just a lot more optimistic that Iyuk is ready week one.

Yeah. I think he's, I think, like we tied. I don't think I don't think I don't think I use ready week one. And we kind of do this a lot with players like that where it's like, oh, they're done, they're not going to play. And then we start getting in the news, the news. We already got some. And it's like, if he doesn't come back week one, I don't think he'll be missed more

than like four games. Like if he starts on Puff. I think he's going to, I think he's going to be back like really soon. I think I think I think already, we've already seen like, that's why I was like hesitant to trade Iyuk when he was at a super depressed value in the off season. Because I just know how this goes. Like we've seen this before. He's already back in like the late seventh thrown ourselves.

We've seen it. So I think what I yuk, I really do think. he'll be back. And I think because we start doing some of the character things with IUK, like, oh, we don't know if he loves football. That's bullshit to me. Like, I don't, like, I hate that. We don't know anything about IUC as a person or all we do is judge it off of, like what he did, you know, with his contract and cried about his contract like every other player does. So I think I think I think I think actually will be back soon and that will hurt Joanne Jennings. But like I said, we just don't know like what Kyle Chanahan does, but I would feel very confident

it that iuke when he's back and healthy he's right back into his role because he was making a hundred million dollars so i would um so it might just be like a short window with with jennings but there's like i said there's a lot of there's a lot of like outs on jennings before the season starts mainly with like soon as the debaubo trade happens gonna boost him up even though necessarily it really shouldn't which i think the debaubo trade at this point probably likely yeah i i think if i yuk even is ready for week one i'm not playing them this is a serious multi-ligum knee injury. Like this,

like midway through the year pretty much. It's not, it's not like a beginning of the year, knee thing. I don't know. It'd be tough. But in terms of like, yeah,

wide receiver 37, I think there's just more ways for it to fail, but it's not like, you get him in the 12th round. It's not like you're risking a whole bunch. There's just some other stuff that I think I would like more, like I said, like a Cortland Sutton type.

But I think that's a good one. I think that's a good, I think that's a good pick for the discrepancy portion. Yeah. And just quickly, quickly to be clear, I do have Sutton over Jennings. I have a lot of the names you said over him,

McMillan. I have over him. Pierce Hall. Yeah, all those guys I don't super disagree. I have them above kind of like the Jacoby Myers, the Michael Pitman's of the world, um,

where it's like, those are more like the empty calorie volume guys. Jennings, you, You were saying like, oh, well, he didn't really do much after week 11. He was getting the XFP, those expected fantasy points. Yeah. We love so much.

He was still in the role in getting those. It was just there was the weird weather game. Just the 49ers offense kind of as a whole was just really weird in the back half of the season. So I, yeah, I saw enough with the role, I think, that I am excited enough about the upside for him just as a producer. So, yeah, I'm comfortable with him at 37. But again, he's at wide receiver 50 on all the ADP aggregators. Yeah, I think that's totally fair.

It just, yeah, like I said, 37 is a bit much. Buck, who stands out to you in terms of discrepancies? I just wanted to say, Juan Jennings on Dynasty Data Lab is the wider 50 at the 149th pick. Yeah, it's a smash pick. Wide receiver 50 is a smash pick. Discrepancies. Man, I just don't want to talk about it. Uh-oh, Dinsa again.

But, uh, where, what are you? You and Ryan, you and Ryan haven't met the exact same. Theo's, Theo's the highest of 16. I'm at 18. You pick one out. Who am I higher on than most? I think it's tough because I trust you for ranking. Is it Josh Downs?

Pretty much. No. Now, I'll say, I'll say, I'll say who I think. My biggest discrepancy is for you guys. And you can go. Yeah, the Ben Sinat Convo, we can definitely, we had a tight end conversation kind of a little bit earlier there, D-Bro, where we were just talking about tight ends that didn't pan out and are athletically gifted, et cetera. He might be one of those ones. I'll say my Jerry Judy ranking.

I haven't met 23. So I'm the highest. Buck, you have met 31. Theo at 39. Ryan at 35. and if you can pull up the Dynasty Data Lab ranking of him, that would be great. I just think, Ryan, you and I had this conversation where a lot of it was James Winston, but in my opinion, I think it's any above average quarterback situation,

and we have ourselves a good solid wide receiver too. I do not think he goes off and is the second best wide receiver not named, best wide receiver not named Jamar Chase. I think that's kind of impossible. Jerry Judy, Jerry Judy is why just here a 31 pick 85 on a Dyn State of Lab on ADP. I don't mean to cut you off. But with Judy for me, I think I did move him up today to 31.

I wanted to make sure he was in that like, you know, fringe top 30. My issue with Judy is the fact that we saw four years and mid with him. He's still 25. Don't know his birthday. I should know it. But he's still only 25. We saw four years of him and just being mid and being like a zesty route runner that being a zesty route runner that was like super good in highlights, right? If you'll see like random.

It's kind of like in basketball. It would be like 10 years ago. Like, oh my God, Stefan Marbury was a problem. And it's just like highlights of him going crazy. But like the teams he was on was ass. That was like Jerry Judy. It would be like they would show like his Denver Broncos highlights. Oh my God.

Jerry Jury is a problem. Show him like the five times he would actually get open. But all the times he did. I think he had a legitimate breakout that we can't ignore, that we should not ignore, but it's kind of fraudulent in the fact that he had the huge game, the huge revenge game, versus Denver. It was like one of the games that seemed like he actually like gave a shit about wanted to really come out and play. We've known like, again, don't want to talk about people's character.

We know Judy has known to like take some reps off, not always go 100% every route. He did that in that game. And then James comes in, he goes crazy. But I would say what really coincides with the Judy breakout is the set of, Tilder Tillman thing. Cedric Tillman goes out. Judy takes that role. He breaks out.

Tillman doesn't play the rest of the season because of the concussion. It's like seven weeks. Like that's really scary. I hope everything with Toulman. Everything with Toulman is fine. I was super high until when I saw that because I'm like, you can't, you know, you can't ignore what he's doing, you know, posting like a 30% target share on like 20 points per game.

I was more has like more lenient with Tillman to like shoot Tilman up the rankings because he was only his second season. It was like the first time he got real reps to, to play and he did that. Judy, we've seen four years in Denver. It's probably a time where we'd throw away his prospect profile. He's been in the league for five seasons now, but it is good. For and first round pick with real pedigree. Like, it does matter. It matters less, now what it matters. But the Tillman thing is scary because as soon as Judy jumped in that role, he did what the Tillman was doing, if not better. And then we also have the sample size of just that role being

super, super elite. Whoever has that role is elite. Because before Mari Kouper, got traded and he was like quiet quitting maybe before he got before he got traded he was terrible because he seems like he's probably cooked but he was like a wider zero five overall in expected points and leading the team and leading the league in targets and like super super elite in that role he just wasn't producing because he was like we saw like we don't know what was going on he's cooked we saw in buffalo but that role was you know the the wider zero five overall and points for expected fantasy points so i don't know if it's like i i don't i want to buy into judy because i think it's impressive i think he's still super young and it's not super unheard of that you know

from like he's on a new team at 25 years old from 25 to 28 he just hits his like you know he just does like robert woods right really bad in buffalo when he started people probably forget that he started in buffalo four years like mid in buffalo he goes to the rams just takes off golden tate Seattle four years of being mid goes to Detroit Lions has like three seasons of 1200 yards like that happens it's we're getting spoiled now we want to see the production early in the career but like guys breaking out on their second team and wide receiver and like the 25 to 28 year old range it happens all the time and it's going to continue to happen so could you could that be Judy I think so but I worry

about I just worry about the what we don't know who their quarterback is going to be and as long as it's not Deshawn Watson who has two torn Achilles it's probably not going to be i think we feel fine about anyone else he he had seven it was like 17 or 14 targets the last game of the season with dtr so as long as they don't yeah as long as with druff you say driscoll was it was it was the other one back they used oh not driscoll no uh the former the patriarch guy was appy that's the one someone ridiculous it was that happy i didn't know so the league so if if judy keeps that roll which he probably should i mean i don't really know like see a huge path path of them like adding another receiver really. I mean, like, they have the, they have the second pick. Like,

they're going to, they're going to add a quarterback. So I don't know. But with Judy, it's just, it's scary because I want to buy in, but I also know what I saw for four years and I don't want to go too crazy. But where he's at now, you know, wider receiver 30, you're like above consensus on him at wider receiver 23, which like still isn't insane. Like he fits into like, it gets to become like a like a mind fuck almost, right? When you look at like Judy and and Waddle. So I can never click Judy over Waddle. But should I click Judy over Waddle? I mean, you can make cases that I probably should.

He should be ranked about him. I just can't do it because of like it's a perceived value thing and it's whatever. And he could easily, you know, I'll score Waddle and Addison and all them dudes next year, like easily. So I think that's what goes with him. I want to, like I do like want to buy him. I got his cost, you know, late first, 110 to 112 or like a, you know, a second round pick and like whoever, like whoever is second round pick. and I don't know Rashad White,

something like that. I was trying to think of a receiver, but even like, what about, since we talk about Tray's not let you talk about Judy around. What about a second and Joanne Jennings for Judy? Like the 207 and Joanne Jennings.

Yeah, we'd just take Judy. Yeah, I think I'm taking Judy there for like value reasons. But I, yeah, I don't think like,

my issue with Judy is I, I'm not really, that convinced he's going to produce fantasy points this year. Like I'll take him, kind of like Debrose is saying in the chat right now. Yeah, maybe he's like kind of a buy right now if you think that he gets like a post-draft bump because, yeah, I would say the Browns are unlikely to add a threatening wide receiver and are likely to add a QB that maybe people get excited about. So from a market perspective, sure.

I just don't like the post-James Winston Brown's offense or any version of it, really. So Jerry Judy, the only time that he really produces in his career is the perfect marriage between James DGaff Winston, who brings the Browns from like dead last in the league and catchable targets per game to top of the league in catchable targets per game. plus Ken Dorsey calling the offense, who is like the DGAP offensive coordinator that is just going to constantly drop back over and over and over. Brown's leading, I believe, led the league in past attempts this year, overall before you even want to get into catchable stuff.

So, yeah, I just, Judy had the absolute best environment for a receiver to produce fantasy points in, and he did, which like is, great, but we have no reason to think that the offense is going to look anything like that this year. So I'm just, yeah, he's just kind, I don't view him that differently, I guess, than I did a year ago. I never thought Jerry Judy was like a bad player. I think he is a very good route runner. I think if a team decides to feature him, then he, like, he can stand up to it, right? He's not, he's not like a cardboard cutout receiver.

I think he's a skilled NFL player, but his talent, I don't think, has ever been shown to be in the tier where an offense, like, demands to be designed around him or he just, like, demands the ball. Because even, like, the target share numbers for most of the year, outside of, like, after Tillman and everyone else in this offense

had kind of dropped off, the share was never particularly, particularly amazing. So, yeah, I just, he's kind of a shrug to me. I'm below consensus on him. I have him at the wide receiver 35. I would, like, cop out and shrug my shoulders and say, again, every wide receiver after 25 is basically the same. But, yeah, he's not the one that is, like, singing to my heart in the startups.

So he's kind of, I have his, my bad. I have his numbers from week eight on. That's like when the breakout happened. 19.2 points for game, 23.7% target share, 24% targets for outrun, 2.43 yards for outrun, and he averaged almost 10 targets again to game 9.9. That goes to my point is that 10 targets a game on a 23% target share, like that doesn't really happen.

You need to get up close to a 30% target share most of the time to be seeing that type of raw volumes. So, yeah, I just don't, I don't pay for 22, 23% target share receivers that I don't think of for. You don't really have to be in amazing situations. Yeah, I don't know. So the difference for me, right, and all of those points are fair. The difference for me is you don't actually have to pay for them. I have been, we've done what, two drafts buck this off season.

I've drafted them both times as my wide receiver four or five. That's not paying for him. However, as Dibro mentioned in the chat, you draft him now before they draft a quarterback and he gets hopefully better quarterback play. Amari Cooper left. I think that's what people don't put enough into in his role changing, is that Amari Cooper was gone. And yes, Tillman looked really good against a horrendous Baltimore defense. Thanks for that. Just watching him run past you, Eddie Jackson, shout out to you.

Really, I'm not bitter about that at all, by the way. I just think the role is better than the player, and that's where we can run into some trouble. But at the cost right now, that's fair. If you're telling me, though, I get the wider Super 1 in a good offense with a rookie quarterback,

and even he's not the first target, maybe he's the second target to Injoku. I don't know. Why do we think it's a good offense, though? That's where you guys lose me. Also, also, it's produced before without Dorsey. Like, Amari Cooper was still good. they've had good receivers in Cleveland.

Like he's not a bad offensive coach. Yes, he runs the ball really well. In Cleveland has been when Joe Flacco is like doing the James Winston thing though. Like it's, I don't think they're drafting a rookie quarterback and saying we want them to drop back 40 times a game. In fact, I'm very confident that that's not going to be the plan for whatever rookie TV they draft.

But with Jerry Judy, you're getting the number one wide receiver. on an offense, and I'm going to use Buck's phrase here, and I'm stealing it from him. When you see that kind of production, it's really hard to put that back in the bag. When you see that a player can dominate like that, and let's not forget that he had 33 targets

over the last three games. That's when Winston wasn't the starting quarterback. That's when he got benched. So they still tried to force him the ball with Zappi, so it wasn't just Winston. And he was wide-ass open in those games too, but it's Zappie. So shockingly enough, that ball was,

seven yards away from him. That's not shocking. But what I'm saying is why I have him over Waddle, as DeBrow had mentioned that I should, I think that there's a very real possibility that if Alave, Addison, Pickens, Judy, Waddle, Moore, and Metcalfe play the entire year, if you looked at them all and said,

well, they scored within like a point and a half. I'd be like, okay, if one of those guys, I think, could go above that, I think it would be Judy. So that's why I have them there. So that's when we go back to the beginning of the year. It's who scored points? Did the situation change?

Who's the offensive coordinator? Has the offense been successful before? And now that's kind of where, like, I want a player that can really score a ton of it. I've been the career low guy on Judy. It's just when you get into this murky, awful area of wide receiver, it was very easy for me to have them at 23. And that could end up being completely wrong.

rookies are going to come in and maybe it bumps them down. But I think you guys just had them too low. 31. If you guys have them at 39, Ryan, I think your spot in 35 is just a little bit too. It's just a little bit too low. To have them only two spots ahead of Joanne Jennings to me is,

I would just easily click Jerry Judy every time. That makes sense? Sure. Their peripherals aren't that different, but yeah, that's fine. Yeah, I get it.

I get it. I'll just, again, I'm just going to go with Judy there, in my opinion. That's it. That's all. That's all it is. But that's, see, and this is why we said content versus like actionable information is completely different. It's completely different. It is good to know the difference.

That's actionable breakdowns of a difference, not a Stephen A Smith-esque screaming match on who's better. So, Buck, who is it? You've had some time. Can we just talk about Josh Downs? Like Larry's King. Sure, if you want to, if you want to end up really sad and depressed, absolutely, because that means if we talk about Josh Downfield, we're talking about Anthony Reagan.

No, no, no, no, we'll be talking about Sam Donald. Oh, God. I actually would like Sam Donald and Indy, but sure, we can talk about Downs. Let's do it. Okay, Downs in my Yider 424. He had 23.9% target share, 30% target for outrun, 2.29% target. guards for outrun, 30% first read on 13.1 points per game. And his expected points was the same 13 points.

The issue with Downs at this point is that he can't really get on the field in two wide receiver sets and they play him as a through-wide receiver set, just player. And they can't get away from his size, even though he plays way bigger than his size. And he's really not even. Like he could really, he actually could play outside, but he's a little receiver. They play him in throughout. We shouldn't sit here and think rational coaching because that's, you know, that's a fool's Aaron when you do that. But for a second year player to put up those peripherals,

and he was banged up, he had started the season with the high ankle into the season. He heard it in the, he heard it in training camp, and I think he even heard it again, he is little. But to be able to put up peripherals like that, right, 13 points per game in his second season, and you look at, and he's ranked, let me check, if you can check Data Laf, where he's at Data Lab. I know he's eighth round pick. I have my Widertyty Super 24, so I'm pretty sure it's above consensus. He averaged, like I said, 13 points per game, on a 24% target share. You look at JSN on a 22% target share, 14.9 points per game.

So he gave you two points for game higher, and they're almost six rounds apart. That doesn't really make sense. That goes with how we talk about, like the big blob after, you know, wide receiver 14. So I really like downs. And the whole Anthony Richardson thing is what brings his price down,

which brings them down to everyone. As soon as you bring them up, bring up either receiver. I like buying Michael Pittman, too. He showed that he can actually kind of play again at the end of the year after his back healed and he got his targets again and he outproduced downs a little at the end. But the whole thing is Anthony Richardson, right? All you hear is, oh, well, like, oh, do you know who his quarterback is?

Anthony Richardson sucks. Like, he sucks. It's dead. They know he sucks. He's going to open. They're going to add someone in the draft, not in the draft, in for agency or however they add it, trade. Anthony Richardson is not a guaranteed week-on-sider for the Colts. He's going to probably, you know, if they add, like,

spend real money like Donald, he loses out for sure. They add someone like a Justin Fields, a little battle, and then you'll have the Gardner-Minshoe, Aiden O'Connell thing. It's like, you know, Gardner-Minshoe wins the job. He plays, and then he sucks too. So then Aiden O'Connell plays, and Aiden O'Connell sucks too, and then Garden-M-Shoe plays again. Like, it's over for Anthony Richardson.

I'm sorry, it is. And maybe you have to deal with Anthony Richardson for maybe 10-11 games this year. But the talent's going to win out on downs. Like what he did as a second year player, if it wasn't downs and if it was somebody else, we would be having this in the fifth round of startups. Easy. We'd easily have him in the top 20, you know, on Data Lab and everything. So I think he's, you know, a really underrated player and an underrated player to buy now

before the quarterback stuff happens because they already talked about they're adding a quarterback. We don't know what that means. Like, like I said, it doesn't mean, we don't know if that means $100 million on Donald or $6 million on Justin Fields or a job. trade for Joe Milton. We don't know what that means, but it means something. And that means that I want Joe Milton to just get a job.

Yeah, sorry, I'm just smiling about a trade for Joe Milton. I just want Joe Miller to get a job. So I'm putting that in the universe. But I think we should buy downs now because with these peripherals going into year three, like year three breakouts a little thing. I super believe in, you know, the year two bump and wide receivers. And he did it. He did everything we wanted to do as while all while not playing a full-time role.

And again, we can't expect rational coaching, but it would be really dumb. Shane Steichen, I think is a good offense of mine. It'll be really dumb for them to keep this dude off the field and continue to keep him off the field, producing that this as long as he's healthy. So I think we can get this dude in the eighth round, you know, in the wider tier 30s. I think he's one of the best values on the board because I think he can really play. And once he gets the quarterback upgrade, which will happen. Like he's going to outlive Anthony Richardson.

If this looks dumb, it looks like he's going to outlive Anthony Richardson. I feel very confident about that. they also have not showed any they even give anything dianthy rich in this off season so far like they haven't showed any any reason why we should be thinking that they still believe in him they they don't he's he's going to be done so like i said maybe we have to do what a half a season of richards get someone else but i think this is like this is a player that's really good and i think we should be super way higher on him than consensus at least to be able to get him in like the almost ninth round and every startup is a steal yeah i'm super with you here buck um yeah he's

He's wide receiver 35 right now on Dynasty Data Lab. I'm up at wide receiver 29 on him. And yeah, even you're talking me into it a little bit more. Because, yeah, I won't reiterate. But, yeah, as you said, Anthony Richardson is not like his destiny. And he's currently priced like Anthony Richardson is his clear destiny that will always be his quarterback. Probably not the case.

So, yeah, I'll just turn it over to you, Tom. You're a bit lower, Tom. you're down at 34, pretty much at consensus. So maybe I don't know if you have an alternative opinion here. I struggle with him because he's small. And I know that's kind of silly. And I know we should be past that. It's hard for me to look past it,

especially when teams do tend to pigeonhole somebody like Buck mentioned in into roles. Even though he plays bigger, I totally get it, man. I understand. I have him behind guys like Jameson Williams, Xavier Worthy, who's their situations are just, just better. I yuk. I have him behind Iyuk. It's, in my opinion, I think he's, but I think the only

player that I have him behind right now that I'd really move and pass is Jaden Reed. I think I mistakenly have Jaden Reed even too high at 30. And I'm already the lowest here, except Buck doesn't, doesn't have him on his board, which I'm not sure is actually an accident. I just thought it was hilarious and it should be mentioned. But it's tough for me to click Jaden Reed over those guys, even Mike Evans I would just rather have Mike Evans right this is this is where I had mentioned like okay I have to try to win here too and so when I'm ranking it's situation it's quarterback and it's scoring points right that's that's that I know I know what Mike Evans is going to do that we just know he's going to finish anywhere from wide receiver like eight to 15 probably like

it's just what he is. At some point, you have 10 straight years of it. Is he going to fall off a cliff? Yeah, maybe. I'm willing to take the bet, though. I'm betting on it. So, yeah, and D. Bro says he is,

him at wide receiver 31. I have I UK at wider receiver 31. So I think I would actually flip Jaden Reed. I think I would flip Jaden Reed and Josh Downs. I should put Reed at 34, and I'll move downs to 28. and I would be pretty much in line with you guys at that point. I think I can be convinced that I should make that switch.

And I will make that switch when this podcast is over. You'll see that update at FantasyPoints.com. I think those are completely reasonable spots. The only thing I'll say is, like, Michael Pittman was so injured. Everyone was begging for him to go on IR except for Michael Pittman Jr. Or Michael Pittman Jr. was begging to get put on IR and Cycun was like, no. Like, I might actually get fired if at least you're not out there. and I can blame it on something else.

Please get back out there. Maybe that was it. I don't know. But Pippman Jr. looking healthy looked like more the guy than it was with downs, especially when they keep drafting those guys like Pierce and Mitchell to be the outside deep field guys. And it's a tough sell for me. And I think a lot of it is being clouded by AR.

I think Buck, you're right in that. I think I misjudged it. I think I'm judging him on his size a little bit too much. I think Talon is there. I think 28 is, I think I'm going to switch him. Sorry, 30. He'll be 30 for me. I'm going to switch him.

Josh Downs, wide receiver 30. I'll only be two spots behind you guys, I think. So, or no, I'm going to be a couple spots behind Buck, but yeah, I think those are great points. I think those are probably the, and we obviously were going almost two hours, or we're at two hours. So it'd be hard to sit here and go through like every single one of our discrepancies. But I think those are legitimately. the biggest ones. Aside from, I'm still higher

on a lave than you guys, but we talked about a lave already. Other than that, we're all within a couple of spots mostly. So shout out us. We're all pretty much here. We're all pretty much here. But in those conversations,

it's important to know the difference between people just yelling because they want to prove a point. That would be the content, like the obvious content grab versus actionable conversations that you can apply to your league. because this is again the time of year

where generally speaking you're just going to have a bunch of garbage just a lot of measuring tape stuff a lot of flag planting a lot of I got here first real conversations about players and where they're ranked and why that's actionable

and that's what we'll always try to do here and yes we have fun here and we like to get into arguments but really at the end of the day it is entertainment as well so we have to keep that in mind we'd have a couple questions I want to hit real quick because people have been here

so shout out to you guys in a rebuild are y'all keeping or selling the 101 I don't have a solid running back but probably won't compete in 2026 I need more wide receiver depth too that is a really hard question to answer at the end of a two hour long show because it is so

vast I can answer this one quick if you guys want. And then you guys can add on or let it go. I'll say it in one word if you want. I probably sell it in this, in what you describe. Yeah,

go ahead. I'll say if you're actually a natural 101 and you got that pick organically, don't make the pick. Sell it for other elites. I don't think there's, if you already are saying you probably won't compete until 2026, I'm moving it for elites.

But that's not saying that Genty isn't also elite. And if you're planning to compete in 2026, Genty wouldn't, you know, wouldn't feel too bad in 2020, probably. Sands an injury. So that's why it's not an immediate sell. If you're that close,

if you're, it doesn't sound like you're a truly organic and natural 101. So I would say I'm selling it if I can get elites, other elites if I can turn it into other first and second round startup picks. I'm into that. But I'm not in a hurry if you think you're in position to compete in 2026. Buck? Yeah, I mean,

it really depends. If you could sell it and get second round startup pick value, which is what Gentie's going to be, then sell it. If not, I mean, you need good players, like regardless of what position they play your team needs good players. And he's a running back that is a rare running back that's super insulated. And just because you draft him doesn't also mean you have to like go into the season with him on your team. So it really depends on what you get for. And if you're going to sell the 101 for like T. Higgins because you need a wide receiver, no, just draft Gentie. He's going to be, you know, around and a half more, more expensive in a startup and then just deal with gentie later like it's not going to hurt to have them on your team

so really it depends like if you can get uh like 210 to 301 in a startup not a rookie pick you get two 10 to 301 a startup value for him then sure but if not just give him it's really not that big deal don't burn buy-ins we need to win we're trying to win over here exactly we're trying to win over here what is it you said playing playing for bread not playing for clicks that's what's up that's what we're trying to do uh john says i hope for a conversation on brand and i and maybe digs. We did talk about Iyuk, but I'll tell you,

I'm just out on digs. I'm just out. We're talking about a guy who was on a one-year deal, non-contact, wasn't exactly said in the world on fire outside of being used as the Houston Texans

tight end one, really. I'm good. I'm good on that. I'm out. Dirt cheap value, I'll buy anybody, but I'm out in general. We did talk about Iyuk,

so hopefully you feel good with that. And Papachino, consolidating the, advice that the productive wider receivers are aging out and the younger guys are somewhat unproven is there a world where jeffson and chaser are undervalued not in any world i've ever been in they're not like they're appropriately valued always they're super expensive as they should be even i'll say this if they're even acquireable they're undervalued i think that makes sense if if you can if the if the if the if the buying window is ever cracked open a little bit

then yes i would say they're probably undervalued from that person i think i think you could of like six months ago or so. I think like around the beginning of the season, I think you could argue they were undervalued in startups relative to the quarterbacks that people were taking in round one. But, but yeah, I mean, like they're, yeah, there's not a not a lot of buy windows on those guys right now.

Jamar Chase is the fourth pick in startups. Yeah. The fourth pick. And then the seventh pick is Jefferson and the 11th pick is neighbors. And you get into the second round and it's lamb, St. Brown, Pooka, and C.D. Lamb is undervalued. Like, like, can we got, Buck, I think we know next week, now that we're going back to two Dynasty podcasts a week, next week,

I think we've got to talk about ADP shifts, because my Lord is Cid Lam of screaming value right now. Oh my God. That's crazy. That's actually, I'm actually surprised. I haven't looked at an ADP board in a hot minute, because I've been doing some other stuff, but that's kind of crazy.

All right. I think we're good. I think we got it all. I think we did a good job with today. Look, like and subscribe, leave a comment. I would love to hear the reactions to Ryan

deliberately getting me fired up today, even though he said he was too tired. But that's okay. That gave me energy. That gave me life, Tom. So thank you for allowing me to push your buttons like that. Hey,

that's okay. That's what we hear. That's what we're here for at the end of the day. We're in February. This is February 18th when we're recording this. If we can't, you know, bust each other's balls over the silliest things, even when I should now be able to realize

when Ryan is just deliberately trying to poke at me. I should understand this. Usually when I give myself and I'm laughing off the camera, that's usually when I do it better. I felt you knew exactly what I was talking about. And you just, you kept going. You Twittered me.

That's what you did. You Twitter number profiled me. And I don't know if I'm going to forgive you for that. General takeaways from this program this week is that is important to really know the foundational difference between conversations for the good of your dynasty rosters and talking heads that just want to yell about being right, being first. Not even being right, but being first. And that's a problem. And that's a problem that can really hurt your dynasty roster. So that's going to do it.

That's it for this week. I have quite a bit to edit in this one. Can't wait to stay up and do that. If you're listening to this, give us a review. It goes a long way. Next week is when Jacob is back. Buck, you're back to AAA. You're back to being Bull Durham.

I'm DFA'd. You're DFAed. No, you know, you're sent down. You're not DIA. DFA DFA, you, you know, that's like Alec Manoa going back to a rookie ball level. That's where I wouldn't do that to you. I'd cut you first, if I'm being honest. But no, it's been great having you on the main program.

You can find Buck and I at the Dynasty Points Market Report that gets released on Saturdays right now on the, well, they're all going to be on the dynasty points feed from now on. We have some stuff changing. I'll keep you updated on that. As always. But next week, Jacob is back. It'll be myself, Jacob, and Ryan, barring any change-ups. The combine starts next week. So next week we're going to get into the good, the bad, and the ugly from what to expect from the combine, and how to apply it.

It's one of our most important shows every single year. What you should take out of it, what you can take out of it, and why Raz cards are the most overrated things in fantasy football. So I cannot wait to get into that one. That's a personal pet peeve of mine are those stupid Raz cards. This is my nightmare fuel that whole week and weekend. That's all I'm going to see are those stupid cards. You got to use spork instead, guys. That's right.

He knows this. That's right. You got to use spork instead. That being said, for Ryan Heath, for Andy Buckler, for all you guys and gals, listening, guys and gals, listening, subscribing, we are hitting new heights with our downloads consistently. And we wouldn't be here without you guys. So shout out to you guys.

Shout out to sticking with us in February for two hours on a Tuesday night. But that being said, remember that clear hours for hours can never lose. Your best days are always spent tilting. Good night, everyone.