Fantasy Football Daily - 2025 NFL Combine Fantasy Winners & Losers First Look

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

Fantasy Points continues the march to the 2025 NFL Draft with Brett Whitefield and Theo Gremminger, take a look at the 2025 NFL Combine risers. #FantasyFootball 2025 NFL Combine Stock Watch: Tight Ends Article Here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/nfl/articles/season/2025/nfl-combine-stock-watch-tight-ends#/ Where to find us: http://twitter.com/BGWhitefield http://twitter.com/TheOGFantasy Find Our Podcasts Here - https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/podcasts#/ Subscribe to FantasyPoints for FREE - https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans#/ FantasyPoints Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@fantasypts #fantasypoints #nfl #fantasyfootball #dynastyfantasyfootball #FantasyFootballAdvice #dynastypoints #dynasty Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When planning for life's most important moments, sometimes the hardest part is simply knowing where to start. That's why we're here to help. When you pre-plan and prepay a celebration of life with us, every detail will be handled with simplicity and professionalism, giving you the peace of mind that you've done all you can today to remove any burden from your loved ones tomorrow. We are your local Dignity Memorial provider. Find us at Dignitym memorial.ca. The Dignity Memorial brand name is used to identify a network of licensed funeral cremation and cemetery providers owned and operated by affiliates of Service Corporation International. NFL Combine, Winners and Losers. Theo Grebinger and Brett Whitefield for Fantasy Points going through all of this week's action from the NFL Combine,

looking specifically at players for fantasy football. This was a really, really exciting combine, Brett. We had the fastest running back group like ever. We had several wide receivers hitting impressive numbers, and then a couple of players who were a little bit disappointing that we wanted to see kind of test a little bit better. Your overall thoughts from the Combine? Yeah, I mean, the, you know, know, I guess the positions we thought were good were pretty good for the most part, minus tight end.

And then I think wide receiver may have redeemed themselves a little bit. I think some of these, you know, day two guys we had question marks on, they really answered the bell and kind of came through for us. So feeling really good from a skill player standpoint, at least, on the whole here with the combine. Yeah, and the two of us have kind of been talking for several weeks now about how the wide receiver class has depth. The wide receiver class is better than sort of the dynasty and fantasy hive mind has been like piling on this class. because it's not last year. But the whole argument that there's going to be like no wide receivers in the first round besides Tett McMillan and maybe one or two other guys. I think that a number of these guys like that maybe we thought would have ended up being third round picks or now second round picks with these incredible testing numbers.

So the hit rates for fantasy football and especially for Dynasty just got better at the wide receiver spot. We knew the running back class was sick. We didn't know it was this fast though. So I think overall this was a big win for fantasy besides the tight end group. And we're going to kind of dive into that a little bit. But Brett, the tight ends we like the best didn't even test. So we'll kind of claim a little bit of neutrality there. So before we start in on the winners and the losers, let's talk about Luther

Burden because Luther Burden's been a player that you've been significantly down on versus consensus. And this, I would say that this was a win for him. him at the combine. It doesn't make our winners list, but checks in at six feet tall, runs the 40 and a 4-4-1. So checks off those two boxes. Does this do anything to sort of alter or adjust your feelings about him whatsoever? No. Okay. I kind of had him pegged as a four-four guy anyways. And then the six-foot stuff doesn't really matter when you have T-Rex arms, which you did, 31-inch arms. So it's like, it doesn't matter where your head is. It matters how high

you can get your hands, right? So, yeah, I still think, you know, the limitations are there. And I'll give you a quick oversight on what that is. You know, he's a guy who doesn't win with route running. Everything he does is either of the scheme touch variety or slot fades. And we know from past drafts that the slot, the heavy slot vertical production in college does not translate to the NFL. Looking back towards Wendell Robinson, 2-2-at-well, Elijah Moore, even Malik neighbors.

to an extent. Like these guys have flimsy production profiles. Burden is right there. I think you only had 330 receiving yards lined up outside the last two seasons. That's nothing. And then furthermore, I charted every single target he had, Theo, not one single route win on an in-breaking route over the last two seasons. Not one. That's hard to do. I mean, that is incredible. So I'm lower on Luther of burden than a lot. I'm still going to be low. He's, I mean, he's right. Actually, I kind of adjusted already for the combine. He didn't move a single spot on my board. So not up or down. He is what he is. He is what I thought he was. Well, a little later this week, Brett and I are going to be revealing our updated rookie rankings. And spoiler alert, I'll be higher on burden than Brett will. And I think

it'll remain that way until the NFL draft. And then we'll probably argue about it after the NFL draft as well. I do think like from a burden takeaway, the burden is more likely a, first round pick than he was before the combine. I think just with the height and the 40 time, already sort of in that borderline range for me. So we will continue arguing about this one. Let us know in the comments what you think about Brett and where you think about burden and my take on burden as well. And let's talk about Caleb Johnson. So Caleb Johnson runs a 457 40-yard dash. And we talked about how we thought that the speed of Caleb Johnson where there was a lot of smart people that we know

sort of pegging him as a potential 4-4-flat-type speed. And we didn't really see that. Those teams, they're just simply not going to be interested in Caleb Johnson because the juice and the ability to win the corner just that's in question now. We have plenty of guys that we know can. So why would we take the risk there?

And I think just from a pure fantasy perspective, when now you're seeing Caleb sort of still projected to be mocked in that 45 to 60 range, that's what Daniel Jeremiah had him at. And I haven't mocked his second round, but I imagine Caleb's going to fall somewhere in that range for me, potentially beginning of the third round. Now, there are some strong landing spots there.

But I think when you look at a back drafted sort of inside the top 45 towards the first round, teams look at that player a little differently. Caleb might end up in a spot where somebody says, this is a great back for me in a committee. Even this could be a outstanding backup running back for me with potential to take over down the line. line. He could get Zach Charbonade on draft night way more easily now than he may be going in. So opposed to a guy like Omarian Hampton, who we'll talk about in a little bit, wherever Omari

and Hampton goes, you worry about the other running backs on the team. Don't worry about Omarian Hampton. With Caleb, I want to see a good landing spot now. I still think he has, for Dynasty managers, listen to this insulation, like how far we can allow him to fall because we believe in him as a runner. But like Brett said, he has fewer, fewer like positive things that are going to happen on draft night. Still some great potential landing spots, but it's not like a stone cold lock. If he would have come out and ran a 4-4-4 and had better 10-yard splits and all these other testing metrics, it would have opened him up higher on several other teams board. So again, not a true loser, but not a definitely, definitely not a winner. Brett, let's take a quick break.

and we come back, we're going to talk about the winners, including our RB2 in the class, Omar Ian Hampton. Welcome back, Brett Whitefield and Theo Greminger for Fantasy Points. We are talking about the NFL Combine Winners and Losers for Fantasy Football. And I highly recommend if you are into anything Combine-related, reading Ryan Heese, excellent article on athleticism when evaluating NFL draft prospects. So sort of we can take, if you read Ryan's article over at Fantasy Points, you can sort of put these numbers into context about what they really matter for you as a fantasy football manager. Outstanding stuff with Ryan. Brett, let's get into it, though.

Let's talk winners here. And let's start off top of the board with our running backs. This was a great running back weekend. But the winner overall has to be Omarian Hampton. Looks like a first round pick for me in the NFL draft moving forward. Yeah, I think that's about what you're going to see there. You know, I think I mocked him to what the Chargers in my most recent mock in the first round. So, yeah, I'm going to be pretty steadfast on that.

I think he gets the first round capital. He just, it's not even just the testing. It's the way he moves, the drills, just the look. Guys, a absolute unit, looks like a superhuman. So, yeah, easy winner for me. Yeah, and just a quick rundown with Omarian Hampton, like, 44640 for him, that puts him in a 110 plus speed score. When you start looking at a speed score of 110 plus,

put into context with a guy drafted in the first two rounds, you start seeing some incredible hits fantasy-wise. And Hampton, I mean, I think for me, if you're a redraft manager or a best ball manager, there's probably no better value right now in early best balls than Omari and Hampton at the running back position. This is a guy that's going to steam up after the actual NFL draft. There's a wide gap between him and Ashton Genti

in terms of best ball ADP. But Omarian Hampton, like Brett, you mentioned 22. I had him projected at 29 to the Washington commanders in my most recent mock. So Chargers' commanders, that would sort of get the blood going, get you really exciting. But Mel Kiper has him 12 overall to Dallas. So like we are not like bombastic with Omar and Hampton. I think we're like very level-headed with our projections of where he could land. I think that there's going to be a lot of people mocking him inside of the top 15 to 20 picks,

moving forward. Athletically tests well, then he backs it up by looking really good on the field. and Hampton has the receiving pedigree to back it up too that some of these other backs do not necessarily have in this class. Let's keep it going, running back position. For me, one of the biggest winners, Quinchon Judkins. Judkins, for me, leaps Caleb Johnson because I think Quinchon Judkins is now going to be drafted ahead of him.

And I think they were also very similar prospects sort of going into the NFL combine. But Judkins had outstanding athleticism to sort of back up. up his larger sample size of college productivity. Johnson, we had one year. Judkins, I have three. And Judkins has very similar size and now much better athleticism. Do you sort of agree with the Quinchon Judkins' take? Yeah, I don't know that I'm going to leapfrog him, but they're definitely tighter for

sure. The thing with Judkins, too, is I think a lot of the analytics favored him anyways, although maybe not for Scott Barrett's model. his model's a little different and a little more accurate. But, you know, Judkins has a little bit more tackle-breaking potential. I think he might be a little bit better in the past game. I still think Caleb's a fantastic prospect, though. And you get him in the right scheme, I think he's going to be dynamite.

So it's tough. That's a really tough call. And I, Caleb, the problem is Caleb Johnson probably projects more as like a early down David Montgomery type guy, where he can catch the ball. He can be a dump off guy. But I think Judkins probably can be more of an every down Belcow type back. And so, yeah, maybe from that standpoint, I go Judkins ahead of them. Yeah, and when I start looking at the beginning of the second round,

if we're projecting Omari and Hampton and Ashton Genty to be selected inside the first, Trayvion Henderson is still sort of the wild card where, you know, we talked about him being a potential pick by like Minnesota 24, potentially sneaking into that first round. Then you start talking about Judkins, landing spots that are super, super exciting in the second round. If Chicago passes on a running back, Chicago has in the first round, you're talking about Chicago at 39 and 41, in the second round as possibilities for Judkins, Vegas at 37, Cleveland at 33, Dallas at 44. I think that one of those sort of landing spots

for Judkins is absolutely in the wheelhouse with this sort of athletic testing. And I agree with you. I think he's a high volume running back who can play all three downs. This is exactly what we want to see for fantasy football. with these sort of testing numbers. Stay at the running back position. You had RJ Harvey as about as high as anybody in the community heading into the combine. I had RJ Harvey pretty high versus consensus. Walking out of this, RJ Harvey is definitely my RB6 overall.

When you combine RJ Harvey's on-field production at Central Florida over a two-year period, Brett, and the fact that he averaged over six yards of carry for three straight seasons, then you put it into context with these testing numbers, runs a 440, also was top six in top, basically top 10 in several other testing metrics. This is a really, really athletic back who looks great on film. Yeah, I mean, I've been singing Harvey's praises for a while now. My RB3 going into the weekend, he's leaving the weekend as my RB3. So I'm pretty, pretty locked there.

Also, something I want to mention, Central Florida, Don't let the jersey confuse you. I had a lot of pushback in the in the Twitter comments about him being R.B3 because he's a non-power-5 guy. Give me a break with that one. Guys, Central Florida's during the ACC. They're a Power 5 school. Now they have been for two years. So this is Power 5 production.

I don't. Also, Asht, Ashton Genti is the RB one in class. He's a group of five. So whatever. I just want to get that out there. Not a group of five guy. He is a Power 5 guy. So.

Yeah. I think it's just to not to get. off into too much of a college football discussion, but there's nothing group of five about, there's nothing like small school, I should say, about central Florida. That is a massive, massive college with incredible facilities and a ton of money being put into the program. So like that, the only thing that they didn't have is 50 years of tradition. So it's sort of like the old school mentality. That's really the only knock there. It's really weird to come at Brett for that one, guys. But yeah, I retweeted your running back rankings. And I think you took a bunch

Jehate and then RJ Harvey tests and everybody's like, oh, Brett, you're really smart. So it's always like that with you. I remember last year, you know, with Ricky Purcell, you were ahead of consensus. Then Purcell has the incredible combine, ends up being a first round pick. Now, Dynasty managers want to know, where do you think RJ Harvey ends up being selected if you're going to give him a round grade, Brett? Have you put that into context yet post-combine? So if we're just going off, if teams were drafting off my board, he'd be a top 50 pick.

you'd be the third running back off the board. So I think right now, and in my scoring system, Theo, running backs take a massive hit to their score for positional value. So like Ashton Gentie, for example, he's like the seventh highest graded running back I've ever evaluated, but he doesn't have a first round grade technically, but he still sits in the top 32. It's hard for that to make sense, I understand. But yeah, RJ Harvey's right there too, right like that fringe first second round grade,

top 50 player for me. He should go early in the second round. And you already laid out the landscape for teams here that are in need of running backs. There's a long list in that early second round. I could see him fighting with a guy like Judkins and Caleb Johnson for one of those spots. Yeah, that's really exciting. I mean, I think with Harvey, he might go a little bit lower and end up in like sort of a James Cook range because he's, again, he's not an overly large back. He's very, very well built, but a little bit lighter than a guy.

like Judkins. I think, but when you start looking at incredible landing spots, how about 61 to Washington, how about 63 overall to the Kansas City Chiefs? And then the beginning of the third round, I mean, to get really galaxy-brained into this, how about the New England Patriots at 69 playing next to Drake May? That would be a player that I think could help Drake May's development pretty rapidly. So RJ Harvey, definitely a win for Brett Whitefield. But I'm going to claim a little bit of that win because I was on him too. But Brett gets the majority of it. Let's talk about the talk of the weekend. We talked about, if anybody listened to Brett and I, when we had Cody Carpenteer of roster watch on, we talked about Basial Tutin. And then Brett and I have talked about him

kind of several times as a guy that we thought was going to kind of blow up the combine athletically. Brett, another win for you. Tutin was remarkably athletic. I had one of the top 10 speed scores of all time. I ran as fast of a 40-yard dash as Devon A-chan had similar kind of athletic testing numbers to Isaac Grendo. Your thoughts on Basial Tutin and how you're going to, you don't have to rank him today, but sort of what do you think he did to improve his NFL draft capital with his testing numbers? Well, we know the NFL completely overvalue speed.

So we all like speed. We like the explosiveness, but they overvalue it to a point where they're going to probably overdraft him now to a detriment. Gosh, you got to figure. he's in the second round conversation right to you with the metrics there i mean does he have second round film yeah probably i he's right he's in a day two mix for me for sure but i think he's my rb nine coming out of the week i still haven't made all the adjustments for some of the guys that didn't test but um yeah i mean gosh a good player i don't know that he's going to be worth

the steam he gets now i think in this class i might let another team make that mistake and i say mistake because I think he probably goes around earlier than he was going to go, even though we already knew he was fast. But the explosive metrics are just insane. It's not just the 40. It's the vert, the broad, the 10-yard split, all of it's ridiculous. So I think we've already talked about on the Combine preview, teams are chasing those explosive players, right?

They are going after them. You see a guy like Tutin where you give him a crease and he can hit a home run at any point in time. He has a really unorthodox running style, though. I don't know how detailed you get into that when you're watching Theo, but he kind of he runs a little flat-footed. It's weird. Like he hits his heels off the ground when he runs,

which is not, it's an unorthodox running style, and it leads to a lot of ankle injuries. I know that's super nerdy. I'm getting real deep into it. I'm sorry. It's just true, though. And so maybe teams are a little skittest because of that,

but I doubt it. I think they'll overdraft the probably mid-second round for sure. Yeah. And again, when it comes to these hyper athletes, all it takes is one. One quick kind of follow-up question here, Brett, is they're sort of the cost.

cautionary model with Tutin right now in the dynasty community is last year we saw Jalen Wright absolutely destroy the 40 and then we saw Garendo have these insane numbers. Now, Garenda was always sort of looked at as a kind of a speed score only guy. Tutin had a little more steam as a prospect going in just to kind of alleviate some fears out here. If you had to rank all three at this point, like right after the combine last year and this year, where does Tutin sort of fall with these guys in your evaluative process? He's a significantly better prospect than Jaylon Wright and Garundo. He's a better prospect than Devin A chain was as well. Like I, I thought his film was all sorts of messy. So yeah, I mean, yeah, that's a good, that's a good

hedge right there, Theo. I like that. Yeah, no, for for sure. And I think that puts into context, like Tutin's not just an athlete. And also, this isn't a double counting situation because we knew he was going to be fast, but also the other testing metrics, not just the 40. the vertical, the broad jump. I mean, everything with Tutin was off the charts, athleticism. I also think it's an interesting one, Brett, where he was North Carolina A&T guy, transfers to the ACC. So this is a guy who's really earned it

and sort of coming on sort of a little bit later in his career at the highest level. So, yeah, Virginia Tech guys are pretty fast this weekend. Let's talk about one more running back that's a little less hype than these guys, but you also listed him as a winner. Tos Brooks of Texas Tech, not a senior bowl guy. Brooks actually went to the Shrine Bowl, so we didn't get a chance to see him live.

Your thoughts of what you saw athletically combined with your evaluated process with the prospect. Yeah. So Taj is a guy I like. He just gets buried in this class, right? Like I think coming into the weekend, he was like RB 15, 16 for me, something like that. But you got to love the build. 5-9-215, excellent BMI. Then he runs a 452 with a 156 split.

it, good jumps, both broad and vertical. And then he leads all running backs in three cone and 20 yard shuttle. The 20 yard shuttle time he put up 406, that's cornerback speed. At 215 pounds, that's rare, Theo. And so when you watch the tape, you see a jitterbug. You see a guy who has fantastic tackle-breaking potential. He's a really good cutback runner and inside zone. I think athletically now you can connect the dots to all those traits you like in his game.

and it kind of makes you feel like, you know, there's a chance. This guy's pretty good. This is when Daniel Jeremiah was talking to you in the comments and saying, there's going to be guys drafted in the fifth round this year that are starting for NFL teams. This is one of the guys we're talking about. Like I think he probably goes somewhere on day three. But for your, if you're a dynasty player and you have late third, early fourth round picks, just slam them on guys like Todd Brooks where the ceiling is really, really high for the draft capital investment they're going to get.

Yeah. And we're going to dive into rookie rankings as well as a. block draft. We're going to do all those fun things for Dynasty, but I think if you want to take one thing away from what Brett said, this might be the best third round ever for us because of the quality of the running back class. There's going to be a ton of running backs in Superflex, even in single QB Dynasty leagues that have a chance to Tyrone Tracy, Bucky Irving their way into viability right away, even though they're day three guys. Tage Brooks, there was always sort of a little hive with guys that really like Tage Brooks. And now the athletic numbers are sort of backing

them up. So definitely going to take another look at him myself because, yeah, like you said, really, really impressive stuff. We're going to take a quick break, and then we're going to come back and let you know why we were always right about Jalen Knoll. Snap up Ancestry DNA's lowest price ever in our incredible cyber sale. With 50% off ancestry DNA kits, it's the perfect time to help a loved one unwrap the past. And with their latest update, they'll discover their family origins like never before. With even more precise regions, and new and exclusive features. Their best gift, our lowest price.

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Now we're going to talk about the wide receiver class. We talked about the beginning of our show about how we thought before that this wide receiver class was a little bit underrated in the way the fantasy community was treating it. one guy that the two of us were very, very high on going in was Jail and Noll. I had him as wide receiver six heading into the combine. And Brett, I believe you had him as wide receiver two, three three. Wide receiver three. So Brett was again way ahead of the curve with Jail and Nol and I was much higher than consensus.

So Jail and Nol has sort of been a definitely one of our guys. We had a chance to podcast from the senior bowl in Mobile after day one. And we were like head over heels by his performance. Now you put it into context. with absolutely insane testing numbers all the way down to the bench press. Jalen Knoll is a really, really athletic human. And this is a player that is going to steam up NFL draft boards. Your thoughts.

Yeah, all I just, all I want to say is, let's go. Come on. That his, his workout got me so freaking hype because I've been beating the drum for this guy. You know, it's funny because I've been competent to Amunraa St. Brown. And Ammonra is not a bad athlete by any means, but Jalen Knowles is a way better athlete Monroe and he can do all the Ammanra type stuff to me I get so excited thinking about what this guy could do in the NFL and I don't care he doesn't have to get first round draft capital for me because I know the skill set that he has I think he still might though Theo but man this workout was insane the the 11 two broad the 41 5 vert the 4 3 I didn't know he had that much juice I think on the preview show I said mid 4 4s he goes sub 4 4 4 I mean that's just that's just gravy baby and then the the 23 reps in the bench press he was top 3 and receivers for both three cone and shuttle as well. Literally top three and basically everything.

I mean, just ridiculous guy. Yeah, so to recap, Jalen, Noel, when you look at the workout in total, Theo, when you see the 40 and then after the 40, which was great, 439, he was like top three or first in every other workout number, whether it was broad jump, vertical, shuttle, three cone, bench press, doesn't matter. And I think my favorite part about the whole thing with Noel is that, that when we asked him in Mobile,

if he could go toe to toe with Amun Ra in the weight room, didn't even hesitate, said absolutely, I'm pound for pound the strongest guy in my team. And then this dude goes and throws up, you know, 23 reps on the bench, which for a 5, 10, 10, 194 pound wide receiver, unbelievable, man. I absolutely love this kid.

He might be my favorite player in the draft. Yeah, and he had all the big plays this year too. So we want to add context to the production, over 80 receptions, over 1,100 yards, and also had like seven touchdowns for over 50 yards. Each, like Jalen Knoll is a big play threat. He can dominate in the slot. He's athletic.

He's strong. This is the kind of guy that can be a target earner early on in his career. And I think you talked about like, I think he'll end up in somewhere in that Ladman-McConkie range. Like the early second rounds kind of makes sense for him. Somebody might fall in love and use that late first on him. but I think more likely he goes somewhere inside the top 45, which again makes the hit rates much, much more appealing to us for Dynasty and for Fantasy Football.

Staying at the wide receiver spot, let's talk about Matthew Golden. And this is not double counting because Matthew Golden, the 40 helps him, but this is not one where we're like, oh, we love the guy because he ran a 429. Brett and I both had Matthew Golden very highly ranked in our wide receiver rankings. We were very high on the prospect. And Brett, this was like, I want to stand up and start clapping because I love Matthew Golden when he was a four, when I thought he was going to be like a four, four, four, four, five type. And then he goes out and runs a four to nine, 40, absolutely lights it up, runs faster than any of the quote unquote fast guys in this, in this draft class that we thought like the, you know, the Isaiah Bonds, the Ted's Johnson's, all these sort of guys. So Matthew Golden, when you add that sort of elite speed into the context of what.

we thought of him as a player. This gets you really excited. Yeah. I mean, we knew he was fast. We didn't know he was that fast. And I think, I don't know that he knew he was that fast, you know, because he ran one forwarding and was like, I'm good. Wash my hands of that. That was a PR for me. We're just going to walk away on a PR, you know, like, but I think you and I in the DMs with Scott Berry. I think we've joked that, you know, there's a chance Golden runs as fast as Isaiah Bond. You see that on tape for sure. And I didn't actually think that would come to fruition. Bonded a disappointing 40 while Golden probably ran his best ever. So it's one of those cases where the NFL, he's for sure going to get a bump now from that

because of the NFL we've already talked about it. They overdraft 40 time. But he's a really good player, though. He's not like your typical show up and run a surprising, like I think of like a Taekwuan Thornton type who had just awful tape. Golden has legitimately great tape. So like he's a really good player. He's my wide receiver four in the class. The funny thing is Theo, is I, my.

My top five coming into the week is going to stay my exact top five coming out just because all these guys kind of did what I thought they would. And we didn't get testing from Tet. So, but man, I love the kid. And I think he's awesome. Yeah. And I think that that's fine too. Like for like, and somebody asked me on a podcast last night, how high I'm willing to steam up golden. And I don't think I'm going to, you know, consider moving him up, up, up.

But this is like lock and loaded, him being the wide receiver three, wide receiver four in this class for me. I absolutely love golden. and now we start talking about the possibilities where I have always had them projected sort of in that 21 through 30 range as a first round pick, which I know you did as well. I think Golden now, when we're looking at it, with the way teams sort of overdraft speed, you could see the Dallas Cowboys at 12. I'll throw out the Miami Dolphins as a wild card for a franchise that is constantly targeting speed. There's a few other teams in that mix where I don't think he gets past like,

at Seattle at pick 18. I think he's going to go somewhere in that like 10 through 18 range now, as opposed to going at the end of the first round. I could be wrong on that. No, you're profile steam up. Yeah, I think you're right. Like, I'm not going to say which one because I forget, but one of the bigger draft talking heads,

you know, it wasn't DJ, but one of those, guy at that level was already saying that he's talked to teams who are going to have Golden higher than on their board now. Well, I don't know about now, but they have them higher. So there's a real conversation that Golden is, the first wide receiver drafted, just because we know the speed kills. So if that's true, now you're talking top 10 potentially for a guy like Golden. I still going to have tat number one for me, but man, I mean, we know how the NFL feels

about that speed. So we already took our victory lap on Matthew Golden, but the victory laps continue because Eeluk Aya Manor has been another player we both had in our top five wide receivers. But I thought like yourself, Eelick Aymanner was this, you know, four, five. vibes, but very nuanced, great route runner, great body control type guy. But then you add into context, he's a 447 guy, Brett. I think Ilymanner, there's going to be like a big correction by the fantasy community about where they can actually rank them. And the whole Trey Harris versus Iamanner versus Golden, there's sort of been an argument, not with the two of us, but there's

been a big people pounding the table for Trey Harris. Now you really can't make that argument after what IMANor did at the Combine put into context with how good he looks on film and the potentially has in the NFL. Your thoughts on him at the combine. Yeah, I said the whole time I've been saying he's a slightly more juiced up version of Michael Wilson. And that was good enough for me to be the wide receiver two in the class. And he's not just a slightly more juiced up. He's significantly more juiced up version of Michael Wilson. So I, dude, this guy, there's not a better technician in the class, the route running technique, getting off the line of scrimmage. the run after catch potential as a big body boundary type player is exceptional.

And then he goes and does this. I don't know. Guys, if you want accurate wide receiver, just check me out in January. That's all I got to say. Yeah, Brett, you're definitely ahead of the curve.

And Elyke Eye Manor, I had mocked to L.A. end of the first round. I think he's sort of going to still be in that wheelhouse, but it's going to be way more likely that I think he's a first round pick than someone that falls after this sort of combat. And this is the sort of guy that I think NFL teams are going to like more than the fantasy community for pretty much the rest of the process. And then there's going to be like that one week correction where he actually gets drafted somewhere in that 25, 26 range.

And all the dynasty rankings people have to sort of update their rankings because it becomes apparent that IMA has a path to instant fantasy viability. Let's stay at the wide receiver spot. Let's talk about Ty Felton. another guy we got to see down in Senior Bowl and Mobile. Felton was a mega producer at Maryland, but a guy that was sort of overlooked by a lot of fantasy managers so far in the evaluative process had a very strong combine. He did, and he came into the week in my top 10.

That's not going to change. I just think when you look for explosive playmaking on the boundary or a guy who can line up in the slot, you can scheme stuff up for him or you can get him to win vertically, he checks all those boxes. And he had a really good combine, like really sneaky combine. I thought he had moments in Mobile where he stood out for sure. But yeah, I mean, again, it's just like confirming.

I love when guys confirm what I know, what I think I know about them. And he confirmed all of that and probably did it with an exclamation point. So huge week for Ty Felton. Yeah, Felton's an interesting one. And draft capital-wise, that's one where people are a little bit all over the place on. do you think that he has done enough now to be a day three guy a day two guy or do you think he's probably still a day three pick brett so he is a day two grade for me but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll go day two obviously um let me think here third fourth wheelhouse you'd say if he can be in the top 11 12 guys drafted i think he's got a chance to go day two i think that's going to be the cutoff right or like 10 11 12 there'll be 10 11 12 drafted on day one or day one or two if he doesn't get he getting there. It's going to be day three for him. But still, fourth round steel if he goes in the fourth round. Got to talk about wide receiver you, and that's Iowa State in this draft class,

because Jalen Knoll is not the only cyclone to have a super strong combine. Jaden Higgins also put up really good numbers. Another guy that played well at the senior bowl, we weren't necessarily as high on him as like a Jalen Knoll or a Jack Betch. But Jaden Higgins was definitely one of our senior Bowl winners now has a really impressive combine. Yeah. So I love big receivers with body control. I think they are cheat codes in the NFL. You see this all the time.

I've spoke at great lengths about how body control is the number one trait for me for wide receivers. He has it in droves. The big question for me, Theo, was like, is this a guy you can reliably put on the outside and have him win to some degree, have him get off press? Because he's still really raw with getting off press and doing some of those X-type receiver things. Wasn't sure if he'd be a slot-only power slot Michael Thomas kind of guy. And I think he does that stuff really well. But man, he put a combine that suggests he has the

linear explosiveness to go win on the outside, go win vertically, go playing a DB's blind spot and win that way. So is it something he's going to do a lot of? I'm not sure. But I think he's checking a lot of boxes that, you know, that were question marks are now green lights for us. And so another guy that's going to be in my, you know, firmly in my top 10 here. Yeah, and I agree. He's a top 10 wide receiver for me as well. And you mentioned a lot of traits that sort of correlate for us as in fantasy where he can bump outside, but he also can be a big slot on the inside and backs it up with strong testing numbers. And like Jalen Knoll, he also had outstanding production this year at Iowa State. So Higgins checks off the box of the Senior Bowl. Love seeing guys do well in the Senior

Bowl, checks off the box of the Combine, and then we add it to looking good this year and having a film to back it up. So for me, I think Jaden Higgins is a second round pick in the NFL draft. Would you agree on that? Yeah. That size and those movement skills, they're kind of rare these days. So he'll get the draft capital for sure. Let's talk about Jalen Lane. This is one guy that we really haven't talked about too much, but Lane also had a very strong combat. Yeah, this is a guy who's like a super speedy slot type receiver. And I think he gives you some verticality from the slot. When I watch his game, I think of like a T. Y Hilton type player. And I don't do ceiling floor comps, guys.

I'm just strictly talking play style. I see a little T.Y. Hilton there. And then the reason I put him on the winners list, Theo, is because I compared to other guys like Ryan Williams, another speedy slot. I felt like Jalen Lane looked better. And the on-field drills than a Ryan Williams. I thought he tested better.

And so when it's all sudden done, like, you know, guys are looking to elevate their status. And I think he probably jumped the guy like Ryan Williams. And even though Ryan Williams maybe had a slightly better senior bowl week. I do think Lane's probably a better player overall now and, you know, can comfortably probably keep him in the, you know, early day three range where he's that super speed slot receiver. Yeah, we'll keep an eye on on Jill and Lane as a sort of a sleeper for us, a day three guy for us. But another guy who we've been very high on had an amazing senior

bowl. Jack Betch continues doing good things this offseason. Brett, you've been very, very high on him. Betch had a very impressive combine. Yeah, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I know he didn't run the 40, but everything else looked good. No 40. Everything else looked great though. And yeah, didn't run the 40, but did like look, looked excellent, just looks the part, had great testing numbers. I mean, I think like when it comes down to it, I think Betch was probably already on most teams like two, three turn line for the second round and third round. Now I think Betch is more in line with where you were projecting him as a potential high second round pick.

And I know you've mentioned him as sort of a dark horse first rounder. Yeah, for sure. And in teams, you know, the Copycat League, he inevitably gets the white guy Cooper Cupcomp because he's 6-2, 214. He's a big guy who plays primarily in the slot. And you saw the shuttle and the three cone were both excellent for that size, like ridiculously good for a 215-pound wide receiver. So, and that shows up on his tape.

He's really fluid in and out of his breaks. but I think he's demonstrated over and over now that he can go win on the outside vertically. Like that's not something you have to be scared of with him. Reminds me a little bit of Ladd-McConkie last year where I think coming out of Mobile, everyone thought he was a slot-only type guy. Charger said, heck not, he's an outside guy for us too. We're going to play him at both. And I think Bash has more than done enough to qualm that concern that he's a slot-only type player.

Yeah, and he's really, really well-built. Like Jack Betch looks the part. He's a very, very well-built. wide receiver with size and versatility. I think that the that the Cooper Cup, white guy wide receiver comparisons are completely lazy and bombastic. It's very clear that Jack Betts should be compared more to the next Adam Thielen than Cooper Cup.

So that's that, there you go. Let's talk about one tight end. It wasn't all losers at the tight end position. Terrence Ferguson was one at the senior bowl where the two of us were kind of like talking about how he was kind of as a basketball frame, did a few things at the senior bowl. We talked about him as a day two winner, but it wasn't like we were like pounding the table. We're like Ferguson had a pretty good day. Ferguson had a really good combine, though. 4-6-240. You know, we had multiple ducks over the last two seasons with disappointing

40 times. But Ferguson really, really fast at the tight end spot. Yeah, like Troy Franklin fast. It's faster than Troy Franklin. Would you believe it? Hashtag faster than Troy Franklin. Seven-tenths of a second slower than Tess Johnson. Yeah, and this is one of the workouts that clears some stuff up because Ferguson had really good tape. And we've been saying this is a transformative year at tight end, but then you get a couple of potential disappointing performances. You get some guys not testing.

Ferguson showed he belongs in the conversation, maybe not top three, obviously, but in that four, you know, tight end four, ten and five, ten six range for sure. I think he's going to get really good draft capital fee. I think he's a day two guy for sure. could sneak into the end of the second round. I think of that Sam Leporta, Dalton Kincaid draft class where, you know,

I don't think anyone thought Sam Leporta was going to go top 40, but he did, you know, Terrence Ferguson is kind of in that mix where I think he'll get like a late second round draft selection and, you know, for Dynasty, I love what I see there. He's a really good pass catcher. Luke Musgrave second round pick two seasons ago out of Oregon State. Now we'll see Terrence Ferguson's second round pick out of Oregon.

on times like sort of a flat circle with these Pacific Northwest athletic tight ends. We're going to take a quick break and we're going to talk about some guys who lost some value at the combine, some of the combine losers when we come back. Welcome back Theo Greminger and Brett Whitefield from Fantasy Points. If you're enjoying listening to this as a podcast watching this on YouTube, Brett and I are also going to be revealing our post-combine rookie rankings this week. We've also got some very cool things in store like a rookie mock draft down the line. basically stick with fantasy points all the way through the NFL draft.

We're going to get you ready to crush it in your fantasy leagues and your dynasty leagues with this rookie class evaluation. We're going to drop over these next six weeks. I mean, it's coming. The NFL draft is around the corner now, Brett. So this is exciting times for us. Also some cool stuff with our NFL draft coverage. Be on the lookout for that.

Let's talk about some of these losers, though, because we talked about a ton of guys who won. Now let's talk about some guys who definitely lost some value. And I got to pour one out here because I was really, really, really hopeful and excited for weeks and weeks and weeks with Harold Fanon Jr. Ends up having a very disappointing 40. Comes in weighs over 240 pounds, weighed in at 241. So it was like a, hey, we got the weight we're looking for for this sort of profile. But then the disappointment with the athletic testing numbers. Is he sort of on the Isaiah likely pathway now for us in Dynasty, Brett, where it's,

We like the skill set, but we can't trust the athleticism. I've saved telling you my take on this until this moment. Don't do it. Don't break my heart. I'm actually still all the way in on Harold Fainon Jr. Okay, let's go. Let's go. Listen, the 40 was disappointing to everyone that didn't really watch a lot of his tape.

Nothing in the tape suggested he was going to run a fast 40. I hate to break it to you guys. The GPS times were very flimsy. I think senior bowl, he ran like two miles an hour faster than he ever did in college. which is hilarious. Guys, the 40 was never going to be good. We warned you on this very show, Theo. We warned him.

The 40 was probably not going to be good. But guess what? He came in heavier than we thought, 242. He still put up a really good 10-yard split in 156. That's wide receiver-ish time. Awesome three cone. Like fantastic three-cone. Sub-7 second three cone as a tight end that weighs over 240 pounds is great.

Really good shuttle. Shuttle significantly faster than the 40. I'll take it. And when you watch the tape, you see a guy who's more of a crispy, short area movement guy. He's not a vertical linear explosiveness guy. So nothing has changed for me. He's exactly what I thought he was. And that's okay.

Probably my tight end four still. I'm cool with that. This is a guy who could handle significant volume as a Zach Ertz slot type tight end who, you know, is there going to be a really good receiver? He's going to dominate the middle of the field. He's going to beat linebackers in one-on-one coverage. But he's never going to have the athletic upside to go win. You know, you're not going to see him catching, you know, 40-yard deep balls.

That's totally fine, though. You don't need that for fantasy. Look at Jake Ferguson and Dallas, Dalton, Shulton, Houston. Those guys have had really good careers. I know you mentioned Isaiah Likeley. Dude, his college tape is so much better than Isaiah Likeley. It's not even funny. Isaiah Lakeley's college tape was buns.

Horrible. I mean, like, he had like 70% of his receiving yards in Likeley's last year in college came on four plays. Like, that's crazy. So, no, I'm still in on Harold Finney. I'm probably more in now because I think everyone else. was adjusted to where I was. So now where I felt like I was fighting against the Fannin narrative, now I'm with it.

I'm like, let's go. He's good. So Devil's advocate with Fannin, because, you know, Fanon's been like one of my guys for months and months and months. But I think with when we look at Fanon, the argument was that he had a chance to push his way into like, we had him, I had him a tight end three heading into Mobile. Then Elijah Arroyo kind of jumps him, which I think is fair with what Arroyo did on the field. And now with the combine, like, I think Mason Taylor gets drafted ahead of him.

Terrence Ferguson gets drafted ahead of him. Now you're talking about him falling a little bit here, Brett. So like we can like him a lot. And I know draft capital doesn't matter nearly as much at the tight end position as it does other spots. But where does, where do you think that NFL teams are going to value Harold Fannin when they actually have to push the chips in and say his name in the NFL draft? I still think all it takes is one. Like, all it takes is one.

And with that, he's going to be a day two pick, I think. The production's still too nutty. The analytics are too nutty on him. Every once in a while, you get a guy that is worth betting on the play speed versus the time speed. And I think he's that guy for me this year. It's not something I do often. I think Brian Branch was the last guy. I really planted my flag.

I don't care what the testing numbers say. This guy is awesome. He's fast. Fan of Junior's going to be. be that guy for me this year. There's one every couple years and he's he's the 2025 guy. So let's go. Awesome. And I think your takeaway here is you're going to get Harold Fanon Jr. as a value in your dynasty drafts as opposed to if Harold Fanon Jr. came out and did what Terrence Ferguson did, then in tight end premium leagues people are going to be taking Harold Fanon in the first round with Loveland,

you know, and certainly with Warren. So it becomes a value to us. But again, it's we don't, I don't love seeing him being the six, seventh tight end drafted off the board. Just my two cents. We'll continue to revisit this one. One guy who can really be completely off boards is Tess Johnson. I was shocked by this 40, Brett. The 40 is scary. I mean, we joked in the DMs that he's basically undraftable now, but is it a joke?

Is he, the thing is he tested well everywhere else, right? Really good shuttle, three cone. But you would expect that when you weigh the size, you know, you're like the size of a nine-year-old. I don't know, man. That's really tough, dude. it's, I feel bad for him, kind of. Like, I think maybe he ran slower than he thought he would. Yeah, he looked ejected.

He looked ejected after he tested. And this is, there's something going on up there in Eugene. Because last year, I thought Troy Franklin was going to be very fast. And so did the Vegas odds. Yeah. Franklin ran a shocking 40. Tess Johnson, like, he moves so, so well at the senior bowl. Like, but you kept saying we have to see the numbers.

from the combine. He's got to back it up with true speed because these sort of these drills at the in mobile are sort of catered to a guy with Tess Johnson's sort of shiftiness shiftiness in his profile. So for me, it's like Tess Johnson, the dream of him being a day two pick is out the window. So the low BMI guys that have hit have all been day two guys, not these not a not necessarily a day three guy who's low BMI. So that sort of goes up the window. And I think with Tess Johnson, and he's never going to be a guy that we're going to trust in our fantasy lineups. Now, if you're in a dynasty best ball league, I could see him getting a matchup based, you know, matchup based statistics, certain games.

But in managed, I think it's kind of out the window. And it's a very poor bet for you to make as a third round, fourth round pick even, when you're betting on a guy who's this small and this slow, potentially a day three guy at the wide receiver spot, when you have this many running backs, you can just throw a dart at in your dynasty rookie draft. So when we say undraftable, it doesn't mean like Tess Johnson is bad. It's just, is it a good outcome for you as a fantasy manager to be using one of your

rookie draft picks on him or even a late underdog best ball pick on him? And I got a couple Tess Johnson underdog shares right now that I'm not really loving, Brett, based on this combine. So definitely pour one out for Tess Johnson. Unbelievable, unbelievable senior bowl from him will always have, Mobile, but Indianapolis not nearly as kind. Devin Neal, this is one where Devin Neal was my RB six or seven heading in, and now I'm having to dock him.

He has a sub 100 speed score, 45840 for his profile was very disappointing. This was also a guy where we kind of heard chatter in Mobile that he was going to run very, very fast in the 40. Devin Neal's a guy where I love watching him on film. I love the production. But when I add context athletically in this draft class, Devin Neal went from a guy that I think had a chance to be drafted on day two to a guy that I think will be drafted on day three.

Your thoughts on that? It's frustrating. Especially the chatter we heard was from the horse's mouth. I won't say what he told me he was going to run. But it was significantly different than what he did run. And so it's a little, it's a bummer man. And I'm sure he's bummed out with it too. So, you know, the jumps were pretty good, though.

37 and a half. So you saw some explosiveness trending towards a good 40, and then it didn't come to fruition, unfortunately. And I think the bummer, when you look at the way he plays the game, I didn't need him to blaze a great 40. Like, that's not the kind of runner he is. He's more of a, you know, he's a good cutback runner, really good make you miss stuff in the open field,

not necessarily a super explosive guy. So I was never really, I didn't. need the 40. But then in this class, when it's really tight, it's competitive, you know, this has a potential to drop him from like an RB 7, 8 to now an RB 13, 14 kind of situation. So that's a big bummer from him. And that's mostly why he's on the losers list for me. Yeah. And for me, you know, I don't want to be eliminating guys because of speed scores, but the hit rates for sub 100 speed score guys. There's just way fewer of those guys that hit for us in fantasy. Now, of course, there's guys like Bucky Irving. There's guys like

Kiron Williams. But I was actually shocked. I thought if I would have had to, you know, predict the speed score, we would have seen him somewhere in the 105 range. And of course, that's weight adjusted 40. So Devin Neal, maybe he turns into a dynasty rookie draft value now, as opposed to one where if he would have come out and hit like a 445, a 448, this would have a guy with his profile where people would have been head over heels. So you can kind of take a optimistic approach and say, I'm actually going to get more Devin Neal shares now than I would have had access to before. But again, sub 100 speed score with this sort of profile,

it just loses a little bit of potential luster on that profile. Let's keep this going. Trey Harris, this is a guy that you've been lower on than many. I also have been lower on than some, but I've been higher on than you. So, Trey Harris, very disappointing 40-yard dash time. Your thoughts? Yeah, my two biggest critiques in his tape where I didn't think he had the explosiveness

to repeat what did in college at the NFL level, not going to be an easy win vertically in the NFL. And then he's really stiff in the hips. Not a guy who can sink and explode. Not a guy who, you know, is going to wow you or dazzle you with route running and agility by any stretch of the imagination. And, yeah, sure enough, you know,

those things all pretty much came to fruition here. So not great. He'll be a fringe day two guy for me when it's all done, like late third, early fourth. And that's most, he's getting benefit of the doubt because he plays a premium position in my scoring system. Wide receivers get slight little bumps along the way. So if a gun to my head, if I was an NFL team, I'd probably say fourth round on him. Yeah.

And I think that he'll be drafted higher than that. But I think that a lot of people were saying that Trey Harris could be like a sleeper to be inside of the top 40 overall picks. And I think that's sort of that ship sales. especially when you put him into context with guys like Jaden Higgins, guys like Jalen Knoll, guys like Jack Betch. I think he goes behind those guys on most NFL teams board. So I think Trey Harris is going to be one where the fantasy community is going to like him more than the NFL community. That's always a little bit troubling.

And the hit rates go down when you start. I'll kind of split the difference here. I think Trey Harris ends up being a third round pick. I know you've got him projected in the fourth. but the hit the hit rates for that sort of profile in the third round go down significantly. I know we've seen some third round hits over the last couple of years, but way fewer than we see when these guys get inside a round two. Let's talk about one more loser here at the wide receiver spot,

and that's Isaiah Bond. Yeah, and I don't really know. Keep a quick. Yeah, I don't know if he's a huge loser. He just, he didn't run nearly as fast as anyone thought, you know. So his tape is probably what he says he is. he's a vertical receiver, you know, not overly small but not big. You know, I think he's relatively limited in the NFL, but not a guy I've loved really anyway. So disappointing 40, but he's still fast, you know.

He's still fast, but the kind of the argument for Bond is he was going to do not Xavier Worthy, but close to Xavier Worthy numbers. And that was going to be the argument for getting him pushed in the first round. And really the argument for me was there was levels where I had to kind of rank him. for dynasty purposes because of the draft capital. Now it'll be interesting to see sort of where Isaiah Bonn ends up being selected. Does he retest way, way better at Texas Pro Day? Possibly.

But I do think that this was definitely a disappointing one, especially when the two of us went into the combine thinking Isaiah Bonn was going to be the fastest wide receiver. And he runs over a tenth of a second slower than his teammate Matthew Golden. So definitely not a win, probably a loss for Isaiah Bonn. and I think the chances of Isaiah Bond being a first round NFL draft pick went down significantly. One other Texas Longhorn to discuss, let's talk about Gunner Helm. Yeah. Are you buying the ankle thing?

I think it's a little bit like we find out a little bit later kind of deal. I mean, I buy it a little bit. Basically break down quickly the story for some that might not be aware of it. Yeah, so Gunner Helm goes and tests, runs like a abysmal for it, like a 48440, right? He kind of stumbles in the first attempt at the 40. And, you know, his camp is claiming that he rolled, he sprained his ankle, rolled his ankle, and they posted pictures with bruises. It looks plausible, I guess.

The stumble didn't look that crazy, though. I've never seen a guy roll his ankle. And I think maybe the bigger concern, Theo, is that if you're rolling your ankle to that extent on a 40-yard dash attempt, you're probably not a very good athlete. And so maybe the story just kind of equalizes the whole thing anyways. I don't know. Concerning, though, and Gunther home's a guy, I really liked.

I thought he had really good yak potential. I thought on tape he looked like a better athlete than Jutavian Sanders, who underwhelmed last year at the Combine. So kind of a scary situation. I have no idea what to do with him now. Well, I think that you have to dock him and you have to drop him in the tight end ranks. And you kind of nailed it.

One of the big arguments for Helm was him being like sort of a yak king. Yeah. Yack king tight end needs to have athleticism, period. You can't just be some shifty slow guy, jukeing guys out and doing spin moves. like this is big boy football in the NFL. Yeah, it's not 40 plus flag football guys. No, exactly. That's a great way of putting it.

Quarterback loser, Will Howard. Yeah, and this is just like, I think Will's got some redeeming qualities in his tape, and I thought he got better as the year went on. But for a guy that experience, to see him have the accuracy issues, and you saw this at Ohio State this year too, where it just, there'd be games that just disappears on him,

just no accuracy whatsoever. How many throws in a row did you miss at the combine? It got to the point, Theo, where the crowd let out an audible cheer after a completion because there was so many in between. I think there was seven or eight in a row just complete, and they weren't close. They're just absolute misses. And I get it's, you're not, you've never played with these guys before. The timing's off, but all the other quarterbacks are completing passes and you're not.

That's a bad look. And he really had a chance for me to be QB4, you know, with guys like Kyle McCord, with guys like Tyler, Tyler Shuck. I think those guys are safely ahead of him. And it's not just because the throw. drills, but it's like that helps you feel comfortable with your evaluation. And Tyler Shuck was flying in that 40 a little bit, you know, that was a good looking 40. Yeah, I think I think Howard was one that like yourself, I really, really wanted to like Will

Howard more at the combine. I thought it was a chance for him to gain some steam. There was all these whispers that teams could push him in as a day two pick. I think that chip is probably sailed. I think he's going to end up being an NFL backup day three guy, which I think his pathway just changed and definitely lowered with this sort of poor performance at the combine. Brett, this was awesome today. The two of us are going to be back revealing our updated post-combine rookie rankings. Make sure you're subscribed to all Fantasy Points podcast. Make sure you're subscribed to Fantasy Points YouTube.

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