Fantasy Football Daily - 2Barz - Late Round QB & the RB Dead Zone with JJ Zachariason

Episode Date: July 19, 2021

Graham Barfield (@GrahamBarfield) and Scott Barrett (@ScottBarrettDFB) reunite with numberFire/FanDuel's JJ Zachariason (@LateRoundQB) to discuss the changing QB landscape, how the late round QB strategy has changed, and the RB dead zone. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fantasy-points-podcast/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One foot of money, two bars on the show. Let's go. Swan fries, what's going on? Welcome back to the two bars podcast. We had a little week off last week. I've been super busy doing a couple of things. Scott's been working on his big Magnus Copp, his big madness, Magnus article on Upside Wentz Championships. That's what I was going for. Magnus Elvis. But anyway, we're back now this week. And look, the week that we talk about. off will be worth it because, listen, we have a reunion here. Our guy, JJ Zachoreson, the editor-in-chief, longtime editor-in-chief at Numberfire is with us today. Just some background. Scott and I both got our first, like, legit writing gigs at Numberfire back, what was it, Scott, like 2013, 2014? It was Masahiro Tanaka's rookie year. And I don't know that because, The first article I wrote.

Really? I always forget that you were a baseball writer first. But yeah, man, it was 2013, 2014, somewhere around there. J.J. took us under his wing and kind of, I think, definitely sculpted both of us into being better writers because I think we've both been really good with data and stuff like that our whole careers. But, yeah, the writing bit definitely needs some help. JJ, good to get you on, man.

I think this is our first time we've podcasted together in a very long. time so it's good to talk to you now yeah i i've heard that that people have anticipated this more than the friends reunion this this this god well hopefully this is way better than friends because that should yeah yeah bad signfeld yeah but bad signfeld exactly no it's good to talk to you guys uh you know we don't get to do it you know as as often as we'd like so it's fun to talk a little shop and and hopefully rehash some of those uh hilarious articles that we all used to write back in the day yeah i'd love to just like tell my story a little bit. So that my start in the fantasy industry was I was in college writing, you know, 20 page philosophy papers. And I would do Adderall, not often, maybe like three

or four times, but one of those times I just like neglected my paper and my buddy started his own sports blog. And I would just write these, you know, 2,000 word replies to his articles just sort of like messing with him. He wrote an article that Derek Jeter was the greatest shortstop of all time. He's a big Yankee Homer. And I wrote this like 2000 word response that no, Archie Vaughn was the greatest shortstop of all time. And that was like later an article for number fire. But yeah, the first article I wrote for on my own was like on a WordPress. I said like half jokingly that R.A. Dickie was going to win the Cy Young, the year he won the Sa Young. I just did it as a joke. I thought he was funny, this like 40-year-old knuckleballer.

I had like jokes that he was like a time, magical time traveler. Like it made no sense. But because that happens, I was like, oh, man, like I definitely have a future in this. And so I reached out to JJ and I was like, hey, here's the two articles I wrote. Would you have any interest in bringing me on? He was like, okay, sure. And started writing and only baseball. And I was legitimately garbage at it.

Like I think I'm really. good now. I think I'm pretty good at least. But early on, I was straight up trash. And, you know, I never made a dime working at Numberfire under JJ. But the, it was invaluable. Like, he paid me in, you know, time and tutelage. What's, you know, worth an indescribable amount to me now. Clearly, this is my full-time job. This is Graham's full-time job. He really just, you know, sat down painstakingly held my hand, sent me edit, like, Astoria, here's what's wrong about this, here's how to fix it. And it legitimately would take weeks. And it like hours and hours of your time. And it must have been so frustrating to you because like I legitimately was just not good.

Like you like people probably can't even imagine like how terrible I was in comparison to where I am today. And so that went on for, you know, maybe like a year where, I just, every article would take like a week of rewrites. And then just at some point something clicked. I started writing fantasy football articles. And I wrote this article about frame Gore and why he was of value. And it just like came out so easy to me. And JJ was like, oh my God, you get it now.

You're turning a corner. This is great. And legitimately from that point on, it was smooth sailing. and I never look back. It was just like, for those of you who are like really struggling, like you're taking Brazilian jiu-jitsu classes and really stink at it, maybe you're just like me. And this is like in so many things in my life where I'm just like a slow learner,

but I always get to some point where it clicks. And then once it clicks, there's like this exponential growth where like I'm immediately, okay, you know, top 15% or whatever I'm undertaking. That's really how it was in fantasy. Me and JJ were talking about the Frank Gore. article, but put it in the Louvre. It's just, you know, put it in the Hall of Fame, put in the Louvre, just a masterpiece. You're just going to print out that whole article and just slap it on the wall. I don't, I don't disagree. So like, from, from my perspective, you know,

Number Fire was a startup at the time, like a like a pure startup. I mean, like like, like we had, we had, we had, uh, we had, uh, our structure of, we had Nick Bonadillo, our CEO who founded company after going on who wants to be a millionaire with Regis Philbin. And so when Regis passed away, you know, over the last year, it was like a big deal to Numberfire because Regis is like a reason that Numberfire exists indirectly. But so Nick took that $100,000 that he won on there and that was the seed money for Numberfire. I was employee like six or something like that. But we were, I mean, in total startup fashion, we had no money, very little money. And so we at the time, we weren't paying any writers.

And so I was going out and trying to find this balance of, you know, are you competent slash will you work for nothing? And it wasn't necessarily my choice. I should say that too. You know, I didn't necessarily want to have to do that. Now we pay and it's a totally different like system. And I'm not fortunately and unfortunately, I'm not really involved in the individual writing process like I used to be.

because back then, it was really just me. I mean, you guys, we would chat constantly, right? They were like, we had emails back and forth, literally, like hourly almost, it seemed like. And I was really just trying to like, it was, it was very rewarding because I was just trying to, because we were both trying to solve the same thing, right? Like, I always said that to writers. Like, if I ever came across too harsh in my feedback or anything, it was always me saying, like, look, we're trying to do the same thing here.

We want good content on the site. That's my job, right, is to do that. but it's also to help you get good content out there to then grow into something something bigger and better and you know the unfortunate part is that all of this happened like we had you guys Chris Raybon was there at this at that time uh like we had such talented people and writers at the site but we just weren't at a point financially to just like bring everyone on and now I always think back I'm like man imagine if that had all happened like two years later and then we just like had that group in that cluster and everyone were to be able to

hang out and just stick around but regardless it's just so rewarding to see everyone just kind go out and do their thing and just crush it yeah it's kind of like i was like in rhodoviz to this in the same sense it's like a farm system like back in those days it was literally a farm system between you know us at number fire like reeves and freedmen and just so many countless others at rhodoviz It's been really cool to see, you know, the space grow in that sense. But what do you guys? You're like Andy Reid. You know, you have your own coaching tree.

Yeah, really. Yeah. It's really, great. J.J. Zacharise and disciples. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy, man. And fortunately, you know, I still got, still got Brandon Gadula and Jim Sonas around with me.

So they've stuck around, which is great. And, but yeah, I mean, I wish, I really wish that we were, we would have been able to just like keep everyone around, but that's just not the way that businesses go and the way that life works. But it's great that, you know, the people that were there were able to thrive elsewhere and just continue to grow. For sure, man. Yeah, well, speaking to growth, I mean, like you and your podcast, you guys have been, you know, your podcast is just like one of the best in the industry, legitimately. Like, you know, what's the transition been like for you just on a personal know before you get into fantasy stuff what's been the transition like for you for like you know

number fire was obviously acquired by fanduel so like what has that what does that look like for you in terms of just like the content side of things and also just like your day-to-day stuff yeah i mean you know a Lamborghini yeah you're buying a freaking house on a lake now man that's where you're saying yeah you got that big you got that big money now yeah so you know with fandul uh it's just a little bit i mean It's not a little bit. It's a lot different because we're big, right? I mean, we're a massive, massive company. We go from, I think when we were sold, we probably had like 15 employees, full-time employees at Numberfire. And now, you know, we have hundreds and hundreds. And then if you go to the parent company, et cetera, your thousands and thousands of people that we're working with.

And so it's just different. You know, before with Numberfire, it was like everything was focused on the content that we were producing. And, you know, we, we, we are purpose. was just different because then it was like ad revenue driven and get as many clicks and views as you possibly can get. But the cool thing with Fandul is that Number Fyre's purpose is just different because we're really there as like a companion for Fandul users. And so we can write cool stuff and produce cool stuff as opposed to like feeling like we need to be like a click farm or just try to gather those clicks. You know, it's not it's not nearly as we went through like ebbs and flows in our infancy at numberfire of like trying to balance not being too click baity with being

a good numbers driven analysis driven site. But now we can absolutely do that because we want to be stickier as opposed to just like getting numbers in there and then, you know, letting them go. So that's been the biggest change, I think, is just like being able to not only have more resources around me to help and to, you know, hire people and to, you know, help influence what we're doing at a larger scale from a content standpoint. But, you know, more importantly from like what I'm creating, I'm able to like do the stuff that, uh, you know, I, I, uh, enjoy doing. And that's diving deep into that, all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Um, are you guys doing like, you know, with, with legalized gambling becoming, you know, just like at the forefront and, you know,

more states are, are getting on board. Um, are you guys like switching more into betting content on your side of things or is still strictly fantasy yeah i mean on on number fires i mean actually every layer it's definitely shifting more towards betting and it has been over the last couple of years but but like you know i there's obviously you know if you look at a vend diagram the the the the two circles of season long fantasy players or dfs players to sports betters there's there's there's some shade in the middle there right i mean there's some overlap so yeah so so so like it's it's cool that we have this thing that we're already passionate about with season long and with what have you in redraft and dynasty and all that,

that we know that we can convert some people to being sports betters. And so it still serves its purpose. You know, am I doing, I'm doing a little bit more sports betting stuff, but I'm by no means like a handicap or now. Yeah. Just out of curiosity, do you have a favorite format to play,

you know, best ball, starts it, DFS, gambling? Like me personally? Yeah. Like, what do you gravitate towards?

Yeah. I'm still, I'm still just like a, Yeah, I'm still just like a traditionalist, man. I still just love playing season long. And I look, and I love Dynasty too. I mean, Dynasty has been something that over the last like five or six years I've gotten like way more hardcore into. You know, I was playing it before, but not nearly as hardcore as I do now.

And but I'll say this. I, I am extremely confident in my ability in redraft. Like I, I think that I am a very, very, very good redraft player. And I, you know, after playing with a bunch of people and doing well, et cetera like i know that i am dynasty i'm above average you know like i i i i'm not i i the way that i've thought about the game has shifted dramatically over the last couple of years um and you know i but like every redraft league that i do i walk away and i'm like yeah that was a damn good draft but then dynasty leagues i'll walk away and i'm like that wasn't the best i could have done better

there you know so i'm like i'm not a hundred percent there in dynasty i still think that i give good advice and I still think that I have the right ideas and that the way that I prospect players is correct and all that. There's just so many different angles that you can approach the game from that, you know, I think that it's impossible to completely be this savant on the dynasty side because there's just so much more to it. Whereas in redraft, it's it's a lot easier to hone in on the different angles that you can hone in on to find those edges. And so I just feel supremely more, I mean, I've played redraft longer too, but I just feel a lot more confident and I've seen the results within my redraft ability versus dynasty.

But those two are still the two that I gravitate towards most. Yeah, I'd say dynasty is, you know, so underrated, so much fun. Like most casual players, which is, you know, 90% of fantasy football players, like don't even know what it is, but highly, highly recommended it. It's so much fun. It gives you something to do, you know, during. the dead periods. Yeah.

Just like a random aside to like listeners at home. Be careful. Like the one year I drafted 150 bestball teams, my start sit teams kind of sucked where I just had, you know, a bunch of high floor ADP beaters, but I didn't have like the correct superstars who really dominated. And, you know, the first year I really got into Dynasty. I noticed my start sit teams like were a little too youthful, you know, you know, gambled a little bit too much on rookies. But yeah, I'm so with you. I kind of just like love every single format.

You know, during the season, I'm all about DFS in the off season. It's only really, or so focused on dynasty and basketball and, you know, they all bring something unique and their own strategy and I think it's a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the cool thing that we get to do now, guys. I mean, we get to do whatever we want, you know, in terms of content. So, I mean, seriously, I mean, we can, you know, we can kind of explore all that. But I'm with you, Jay. We don't have JJ crack in the whip anymore. God, man, I'm, JJ, there's like so many emails back and forth between both of us where you're just like, I know you just won't like scream through your computer. Yeah.

No, like, look, I feel like if nothing else, I hope that you guys could walk away and say that you had a self-aware editor, like that I like, like, I knew that it sucked. Like, I wasn't like, like, I'm not the most confrontational person in the world either. So like being in that role was somewhat uncomfortable. at times too. But hopefully you guys didn't walk away being like, this dude was awful. I hate this man, terrible human. Hopefully it was an okay enough experience. No, you were, you were legitimately the best in every way. You would just like hold my hand and like caress me. It's like it's not that bad. It's okay. And then I went from you to Mike Clay who, oh my God, he would just send back a list of here's everything that's wrong with that. Fix it now. For an entire year of him editing

my articles, I thought he hated me. And then I met him in person. He's like, oh, great job this year. And I'm like, what? Yeah, Mike is the nicest guy. And the nicest guy. It looks like the nicest dude. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. But Scott, you mentioned something earlier, and this is probably a good part to start with. Like, best ball and season long is massively different. And I feel like because best ball has got so much more popular, there's a lot more like blurred lines between the two now, right? one of the things I want to ask you about JJ is you know one Z positions are way more important in best ball right because we don't have access to the waiver wire and it's just way easier to replace or find replacement level players or even beat replacement level players off the waiver wire

with streaming you know you've been at the forefront of this for many years like I find it I I see so much content out now that's like, you know, kind of treating quarterbacks the same in best ball as we should in season long, which I think is the complete wrong strategy. So in best ball leagues for you, just in general, like what changes in your strategy? Because you're the late round quarterback guy. And we'll go deeper into, you know, some of the market stuff that's going on right now. But like in general, what's your strategy there? Yeah, I mean, I would say that like five years ago, it's different than what it is now.

You know, I think that that's that's key and just being an analyst with stuff is that you, you see how things are going and trending and moving and you redo your analysis and you realize that you were an idiot at one point and you were wrong. And so, you know, back in the day, I would have told you that, you know, there are a lot of quarterbacks that are giving you fairly high ceiling games that are giving you QB1 performances, let's just call it that. There's a lot of them that are doing that each and every week. And there's a lot of a variation that we see week in and week out at the quarterback position.

And then not only that, but on a season-long perspective, there's a lot of variance as well. How we're drafting these players, where we're drafting them, and how they finish from a season-long perspective at the quarterback position. And so as a result of that, you can sit there and say, well, if there's just a lot of general variance, then you can just get guys who you know are going to be starters for 16 games, and now 17, starters for 16 games that will give you, some production and then you'll hopefully hit at some point. But I think what we found is that, especially now in these days, last year, what we saw, even the year before that, to a certain

extent, the ceiling is a lot different than it used to be, the ceiling for these quarterbacks. And so it's not as easy to match, you know, that kind of production. You know, last season, and we're going to get into this, I'm sure, but last season, we have this crazy, crazy season at the quarterback position. And it was a very predictable season. as well. And it's no surprise that from a streaming perspective, you know, I do living the stream and we keep track of our picks each week. Me and me and my podcast co-host, Denny Carter. We keep track of our picks every week. Now, we don't have the benefit of picking up a guy and leaving him in our streaming lineup, if you will, each week, you know, because his percent roster is going to change

and not be under that like one-third mark that we look for in terms of guys who are out on the waiver wire. Like, Deshaun Watson is rookie year. Like we streamed Deshawn Watson, but eventually he was rostered in too many leagues where we couldn't stream them anymore. So we didn't have that benefit. But even still, we're usually streaming like a QB6 or so from like on a points per game basis. Last year it was like QB9. It was a lot more difficult to get that replaceability in there at the quarterback position. So, you know, I do think that because you don't have that backbone in a best ball league and because the ceilings are a little bit different and look a little bit different, it just makes more sense to feel more okay about taking on that cost for,

for some of those more elite guys. And, you know, like you said, the market's changing and things are, things are a little bit more dynamic than they used to be. And the opportunity cost and getting some of those quarterbacks isn't what it used to be. Where, you know, before at one point, you were drafting the QB1 at like, in like round two where like, yeah, the opportunity cost is really, really high there. But it's not nearly as significant as it used to be too, which makes it a lot easier. Yeah, for sure.

So there's a lot of ways I want to go with this. But one of the, let's start here. Like last year, you mentioned it, you know, quarterback scoring was insane. I mean, it was total outlier year. There was like three guys between Allen. And if you include Prescott, Allen, Prescott, Mahomes, all of those guys posted like some of the best all-time seasons and points per game, right? What do you think drove last year's quarterback scoring? Like, how have you explained that?

And do you think that's a sign of things to come? or is that just, you know, last year was, hey, it's a COVID year and there's a lot of play. Yeah. So I'll let's like, let's walk through this because there's just so much to it, I think that, you know, people don't always like think about and see. But let's ask ourselves why late round quarterback has worked historically, right? So we know that we're only starting one quarterback. So that so we know in a lot of leagues there's an excess supply of the quarterback positions. You're only starting one of them, right? scoring among quarterbacks historically has been fairly tight as well. And so what that means is that even the best quarterbacks, they're not giving you that significant of an advantage, you know, over a replacement level guy.

You know, middle round QB1s historically have not mattered that, or sorry, middling QB ones have not mattered all that much from a fantasy perspective. And so that just made the position more replaceable. You know, you could realistically get guys off the waiver wire and then stream, or you could just hit on a late round. quarterback. But then on top of that, you know, I mentioned this earlier, we've generally sucked at predicting which quarterbacks are going to be good. If you look at top 24 quarterbacks in ADP over the last decade and you look at postseason result, the R squared between those two. So

where you're drafting these guys and how they're finishing has been non-existent for a lot of the seasons that we've seen between 2011 and 2020. Last season, we finally saw that correlation jump, but it was virtually zero between 2013 and 2019. So that basically tells you that you could literally throw a dart at a quarterback draft board. And he had just as good of a chance to finish as the QB1 as the actual QB1 did that you were drafting. There was just no no predictiveness in ADP. And so we have to ask ourselves, you know, last season something shifted, something changed. And what changed more drastically than any other season was the rushing component, right?

Like we've known all along that Russian quarterbacks have been a cheat code in fantasy football. You know, Rich Rebar wrote the Konami code back in 2013. Scott's written a lot on this. We know that mobile quarterbacks give you a cheat code in fantasy football. It's just that this past year, we saw more of them. And we saw a situation where as a result of that, the predictiveness of preseason ADP versus postseason result became a lot stronger. And so, you know, if you were to break down what a quarterback does in order to score points in fantasy football, they're either running the ball or they're throwing the ball. And if you're throwing the ball, you need a lot of touchdowns to score fantasy points, right? That's, that's, they're disproportionately weighed in the passing side of things in terms of scoring fantasy points at the quarterback position. And we know that touchdowns abouted by attempts fluctuates a ton year over year. So if historically we've been looking at these quarterbacks and they have. And they brought a lot of variance.

That variance is because of what they're doing through the air, not on the ground. The R squared among quarterbacks who have had 300 plus pass attempts year over year over the last 10 years, the R squared in touchdown rate is 0.04. But the R squared in rushing yards per game among that same sample is 0.72. So it's insanely more consistent when you're looking strictly at rushing production. Now we have all these rushing quarterbacks that are giving us this edge. And so now they become. become more predictable, which makes it more difficult, because the market's catching up on this,

makes it more difficult to then draft a quarterback late. And so I think everything came together last season where we had the right number of quarterbacks that gave you that dual threat ability and that dual threat upside. But then on top of that, we also had this pandemic season where, you know, you could say it doesn't matter, whatever, but I think it did matter. I think the pandemic season mattered. I understand that offensive holding calls were down this past year, which are going to help offenses, and that's probably going to remain consistent year over year. You know, I understand there's more play action and aggressiveness on fourth down, and that's going to help offenses. But at the same time, we saw so, remember at the beginning of the season, we saw so many overs hit to start the year.

I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that opposing quarterback, and we know that home field advantage was shrunk last year. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that opposing quarterbacks were able to dictate more at the line of scrimmage. And so when offenses are the ones who are at an advantage, you know, on a football field because they know what's coming. And so last season, just like everything hit in the right way for these quarterbacks, this group of quarterbacks to really give you that significant edge. But there are things that happened last year that probably are going to stick around year over gear. Yeah. I remember Scott and I used to have like hour long conversations like in July and August this time last year talking about, hey, how is the pandemic going to affect the games? because I remember we both kind of came around to the fact that, yeah, early in the year, because, you know, there's no crowd noise.

That's going to help off. Right. There's less practice time for defenses. I mean, they've been cutting down on practice time for defenses in training camp and live action, you know, hitting in practice for years. You get the, you know, defenses require communication, right? You know, to kind of get on the same page. That was just all cut last year.

And that's why we saw early in the year. like you mentioned, there was over, it's just being crushed every single week, especially in the first, like, four to six weeks. I think that helped fueled it. But it was also just kind of like something that lingered over the heads of the, you know, the head of the full season. So, yeah, I think, I think there's, it's, you know, two things like this has become more of an offensive league, where the league is literally going away from calling

opis that are obvious, calling, you know, offensive holdings down. That's been going down for, you know, not just. last year. It's been going down for years now. You know, the game has changed to the point where, yeah, it's way more conducive to passing. And teams are, you also have this other factor that's coming in where teams are finally joining up with the analytical movement and passing way more on early downs and in closer games. So that's increased, that's increased the passing production in general, too. But yeah, I think, I think the defensive side of things weren't necessarily, that wasn't necessarily

it definitely matters and it wasn't necessarily like accounted for, I think, early in the year. Yeah. And what's interesting about that too is the only like comparison that we had for last year was like the near lockout season, which was like 2011. And that year the exact same thing happened. Overs hit at like a 70% rate or something like that. And we saw bigger passing numbers to start the year. I mean, even last year, though, you can look at most quarterbacks ended up seeing

a decrease in production down the stretch. I mean, it, it, it shifted. I mean, Russell Wilson's the perfect example of that, but it definitely shifted, you know, as we, as we went on with the season. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that that defenses were, we're catching up and becoming more cohesive as a unit. Yeah, the thing with Russ last year, man,

is that like, that defense was so bad to start the year. They had no options. It was so bad. And then they finally got a little better in the back half last year. And then, you know, Brian Schontheimer, or did Brian Schottonheimer things and went to his turtle shell. But yeah, yeah, I think, I don't know, just it's so interesting looking back the last year because I do think at the end of the day it's going to be an outlier year.

Okay, so we talked about, you know, just the general philosophy of later on quarterback. This year, man, the market has, and you mentioned earlier, too, that the, you know, last year, the ADPs were much more efficient, but still not great, but they were much more efficient. this year man we've got mahomes in round three or round four we've got you know lamar Josh alon dachyler murray all in rounds five and six um just off the cuff do you think that's efficient or do you think it's kind of an overreaction to last year's scoring i think it's efficient i think if it were an overreaction we would be seeing what we saw in like 2014 you know just like those those years like 2011 to 2014 we're like people were taking

Aaron Rogers in the second round, right? And like, we're at least being competent enough here to, as a, as a collective to say that we know that quarterbacks inherently don't matter as much in fantasy football, but these guys are giving you a more predictable edge than what we've seen in the past. So we should give them at least a little bit of a boost. And then, you know, if you, if you look at history, where there are, where drop-offs occur in expected output at running back and wide receiver, generally. really occurs like in that fifth round into the fifth and sixth round. And so the opportunity cost then

in getting those quarterbacks in that area is a lot less significant, which is which why I think we're seeing those quarterbacks go in that area is because people are like, oh, now I have to choose between Dak Prescott and Cortland Sutton where there's like these question marks around this player. Whereas before, you know, if it were Dak Prescott versus a second rounder, you know, like Cam Acres or something, then then all of a sudden it's a much more significant opportunity. opportunity cost involved and a lot more difficult to take to make that pick so you know I think that it is pretty efficient this year the thing this year though that I see that I haven't seen in past years you know and entering last year I started taking middle round quarterbacks because of how efficient

the market appeared because people just started to to value rushing more it seemed like this season more than any other there are like these different pockets at these different levels like usually usually the way that I have told people to approach a quarterback position is if you're going to take one in the middle or early rounds, just get an early round guy and go all in. Just go big or go home, similar to tight end. But now there's like these layers. Like you could realistically go after one of those elite guys in round five or you could wait a little bit and go after Jalen Hertz or you could wait a little bit and go after Ryan Tannahill or you could wait a little bit and just literally throw darts at some of these rookie quarterbacks. And so this is the first time that I can

remember where you actually have those kinds of options throughout your draft as opposed to, you know, having these obvious ways to approach it. And I think that speaks volumes to how efficient the market actually is. That's a great way to put it because it's become a lot more fragmented. I think that's really what it is. It's like you have just very fragmented tiers within drafts. Because Mahomes is usually like QB1, nine times out of 10. And then you've got like that big group of the four. And then you got to wait a bit and you know, you got three options around seven through rate with Herbert, Wilson, and Hertz, and then you go later, it's Tanna Hill. Like, one of the things I've been thinking about more and more, and I know you've written

and talked a lot about this on your own podcast, is that running back dead zone is just, like, through rounds three through six, and I mean, you can extend it a little bit further, but really, like, let's focus on, like, you know, rounds three through six. There's just so many freaking landmines year over year between just normal, you know, positional churn between injuries and guys not getting the roles we expected, but just generally just getting absolutely hammered in terms of value at those picks. I think that's, and this is something that I've had to change in my own strategy, because I've been with you for, you know, 10 years of playing fantasy football.

I've always been one that I'm going to try to wait as long as possible for a quarterback. But this is the first year that I've really come around to like, hey, you know, rounds four or five, even if it's, you know, I'm sitting in a spot where let's say I started with two running backs and a receiver and Lamar's on the board in round four and I just don't like the board. It's a really sharp room that there's not new quarterbacks off the board. I'm willing to go that route. I think this is another, this is a great year for that because you automatically know in the back of your mind that that running back dead zone exists. You know what the buster rates are, right? But then you couple in the fact this year. that zone is awful. Like there's like two, I don't know how you feel about it, but I think there's like two or three backs that are like somewhat safe. And even then they're probably not all that safe. So I think this year is like especially good year to kind of change up the strategy

and really attack those quarterbacks in that range because it's really tough to feel comfortable about a running back in that range. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. It obviously depends on what kind of ADP source you're looking at for the running. back dead zone. I think if you're looking at more best ball ADP that a lot of people have done, you know, Jack Miller's done a lot of work over at like establish the run now and, and whatnot, on the dead zone. And best ball ADP focuses a lot on rounds three to six. I have more traditional redraft ADP that I've gotten from my fantasy league. And the dead zone with what the work,

with the data that I work with is more so rounds four through, through six-ish. You know, round three. So last year I wrote an article on league winning, like where we find league winning players. And I define league winning as a running back who finished in the top 10 and a wide receiver who finished in the top eight. And the reason I use those parameters is because that's typically where we saw drop-offs occur in points per game, you know, after RB10 and then after wide receiver eight. Pretty arbitrary, but you needed to have a cutoff somewhere. And if you look at where these league winners are coming from, you know, 55 percent, there's a 55 percent hit rate and Round one for running backs, a 36% in round two, a 33% in round three.

And then all of a sudden in round four, it's 11%. And then in round five, it's 14.8%. In round six, it's 13.5%. And round seven, it's 10.5%. So basically, historically, over the last 10 years, you've had just as good of a odds, a chance of hitting on a league winning running back in round seven as you have in round four. And what that tells you is, this is the dead zone, right?

this is exactly what the dead zone is about, is that, you know, you're not getting these truly winning, I mean, you are at times, you know, like Jonathan Taylor last year, but it's not that they're happening all that frequently. And then on the reverse side, the one piece of the, the dead zone that I think it's overlooked a lot is that it's not just that the running back hit rate drops around that point. It's that the wide receiver hit rate increases or is very good, right? So if you look at wide receiver hit rates in terms of the league winners that I was looking at, top eight guys. Round one, you have a 70% rate. They're very, very safe in round one, 45.8% in round two, which is still pretty strong. And then round three hits and it's 15.4.

You actually have a better hit rate of finding a league winning wide receiver historically in round five than you have in round three. So what that tells you that is, is that in round four and five, it makes more sense to go after wide receivers and then foregoing those running backs just given those historic hit rates. So that's really what the, you know, the dead zone and the data that I've worked with says about the dead zone. And then, you know, to your point, what I was saying earlier, you know, these elite quarterbacks are not being drafted in round two and three where those hit rates are significant, right? The hit rates are not significant in rounds four and five. And so it's a lot easier to take on that opportunity cost than for those quarterbacks in that area of the draft.

When you couple the hit rates, then you look at the fact that these quarterbacks are be more predictable and that they do have that ceiling and they are giving you that edge. It does make more sense for all of those reasons to get quarterbacks in that range than it has historically. Yeah, it's not even a safety thing. It's also like an upside thing. Like because if you think about it, like, you know, what are the chances Lamar or Dak or Kyler or Allen doesn't pay off in that range, right? They'd probably have to get hurt or, I mean, I mean, seriously, I mean, because like you mentioned earlier, rushing is way more predictable and it's way more sticky year over year. You get the added in safety of, okay, from a roster construction standpoint, I'm

I'm not even going to waste to pick on a running back here because I know what the downside is. But I also have more upside on, again, from a roster construction angle, thinking, hey, okay, not only am I avoiding backs in this range when my opponents are still taking them. I'm going to take a quarterback here and then gain two, three, four, five, six extra points per game that at the court at that onesie position that my opponents are not getting. So it's like a, it's like a double whammy, I think, the way leagues are setting up this year. Yeah, for sure. And the other thing, too, to keep in mind, you know, I've done a lot of analysis the last week. I mean, it spanned before that, but I published it this week on sort of middle round running backs. And the reason I focus so much on those middle round running backs, and I'm referring to round six through nine, really. But the reason I'm focusing so much on those is that that's where more league winning players come from at that position than the wide receiver position. The wide receiver position in that area of the draft is usually, kind of a dead zone itself. I think there might have been a rhodoviz article written about that this week. And so that round six through nine range is a good place to target the running back position. And so you can look at these historical bust rates and where these league winners come from

to sort of shape that. And again, you know, in that four to six range is where the opportunity cost just really isn't that much different than what you're getting in the six through nine range. Yeah. So I mean, the way I've been trying to think about running back. scoring and I'm like, this is a podcast, so I'm going to try to draw it out in my head. But like, I think a lot of people think of scoring in a very like bell curve manner. But it's you, it's for running back specifically, it's way more stacked towards like the top 10% in terms of like win rate in those truly like league winning types. And it really, really like steepens out, flattens out as you go throughout the rest of the curve and then drops off past that. I mean,

in general, like this is something we talked about with Abib who won the FFPC back-to-back years 2019, 2020 on a podcast a couple weeks ago. He was mentioning that, you know, those handcuffs that go in like past, you know, past the dead zone. Let's, you know, talk about like Tony Pollard and. Yeah. Alexander Madison. Those guys are so rarely worth that pick.

Yes. It's like in general, it. Running back is, it's such a, it's such a difficult position for so many reasons because there's so much randomness involved. But those running backs in that range, man, are basically worthless. I wanted to ask you about handcuffing because I think you and I talked about this way in the number, number fire pass. I know you've written about it too. In general, like, I think handcuffing is like the worst draft strategy you can take. You're literally betting against yourself.

You know, you take, let's just say you take Zieg at five and roll. And you take Tony Pollard in a round 10. Well, if Zieg stays healthy and he pays off that cost, you're literally betting against yourself with your 10th round pick that you could be spending on another position. Like, it's, you know, we've talked to this whole podcast about basically when to not take running backs, but like there is a very, I think, limited player pool of backs that we should be looking at in avoiding those, you know, kind of not worthy handcuffs and the late rounds are included in that kind of dead zone discussion. Yeah. So there's so many layers to it too. Like,

like, so I did a study on running back handcuffs like four years ago, I want to say. And in that study, it found that running back handcuffs just don't pan out very often at all, number one. But number two, we don't even know who the running back handcuff is necessarily. And then number three, when handcuffs do get an opportunity to see the field. They don't produce very well. And I think a great example is last year with Alexander Madison against Atlanta. I mean, I'm sure you guys remember that from a DFS perspective. Of course.

And so everyone's in on Madison. I mean, look, there's logic behind it for sure. You know, game theory from a from a percent own, from an ownership perspective is a little bit different. But, you know, Alexander Madison steps in. And Dalvin Cook is a game script, not a game script dependent running back. He's going to be on the field no matter what. well Alexander Madison we didn't know regardless like we didn't know for sure how they would handle if the game got well the game got out of hand and Alexander Madison wasn't on the field right and so we have these preconceived notions that like Tony Pollard would just be this absolute stud if Zeke went down or Alexander Madison would be this absolute stud if Dalvin Cook went down but there's a reason that they're not elite running backs and that they haven't been viewed that way and they weren't viewed that way coming out of schools because that's on how teams use them and because they're not not to be like

mean to them, but they're not worthy of it, right? Like, like, that's just not who they are. And if you look at the running back handcuffs who have hit over the last 10 years, they're players that were drafted very, very late. Two of them came from Pittsburgh with James Connor and DeAngelo Williams. One of them, I wouldn't even say was a true handcuff experience because it was the Leveon Bell holdout season. But, you know, DeAngelo Williams comes in. He's a stud. He wasn't drafted high. And then the other one was Fred Jackson when C.J. Spiller was a first round pick. And so we don't see these running back handcuffs pan out at very high rate. And I actually, I did an article on the, I did a podcast on how to

spot a breakout running back last year. I've done studies on how to spot a breakout running back a lot over the last like five years. But I try to like re-up them every year and like look at things from a different perspective. And this year I published this spotting a breakout running back study on my show on Monday. And what I found, what was, I think was really, really intriguing because I focused more on those middle rounds, the round six, the round six through nine, because that's where we see these league winning running backs coming from at a higher rate than wide receivers. You know, there's this like, like get running backs, get running backs. Okay, you can get running backs again. And that running backs again is in that, is in that round six

through nine range. But a lot of people in that range are drafting those high end handcuffs. They're drafting the Tony Pollards, the Alexander Madison's, and they've done that for a year, Ben Tate, way back in the day. Remember Ben Tate? Of course. Everybody thought that was going to be a sweet backfill with him and Foster. Right. And we do that all the time. But if you look at hit rates, and so by hit rate, I looked at players who exceeded ADP expectation by 100 or more fantasy points. There's just a trend line for ADP expectation. And if a player exceeded it by 100 or more fantasy points, he was dubbed a breakout. And I looked at round 6 through 9. And then I looked at if a player was an RB2 or worse on his team being drafted in that range versus a player who was the

RB1 on his team. So we're talking in terms of ADP. I'm not trying to guess who the RB1 is. I'm literally saying this is the RB1 because he's the first player from his backfield being drafted. So it's by ADP. The RB1s had more than twice as good of a hit rate in terms of exceeding expectation by 100 or more points than the RB2s did.

So the Kareem Hunts of the world right now, part of that RB2 group. but then you get a lot of those handcuffs and you get a lot of players who just generally, you know, don't pan out year over year. But the really interesting thing that I found is if we know these RB-1s are hitting at a higher rate than the RB2s, I wonder if you can segment that a little bit. And so what I looked at was RB-1s who are being drafted, so team RB-1s who were being drafted in those middle rounds, round six through nine, who had a teammate drafted near them, also in the middle rounds.

and then RB ones who had no teammates drafted around them. So this is the difference between, let's say, Chase Edmonds, because he has James Connor being drafted close to the end of round nine, versus Michael Carter, Michael Carter being the lone Jets running back who's being drafted in those middle rounds, with no running back being drafted near him. What I found was the more ambiguous backfield, the Chase Edmonds, you know, the Cardinals backfield this year,

the 49ers backfield this year, the Broncos backfield this year. Those RB ones had an, absolutely insane hit rate, like an insane hit rate. We had, we've had 17 of those instances over the last decade. Four of them have exceeded expectation by 100 or more points. It's a hit rate of over 24%, whereas the flip side, the Michael Carter situation, those hit at a 6% rate. And so the majority of the RB ones who are hitting in those middle rounds are coming from these situations where multiple running backs are being drafted also in those middle rounds from these from these same backfields. And I think that the reason for that is because we like the situations in those backfields. We just don't know

who the RB1 and who the guy is going to be in those backfields. And so we're saying, you know, what, if I don't get Chase Edmonds, I'll just get James Connor because he could be the goal line guy. He could see the early down work and he still might be good. Or I'm not going to get Trace Sermon. So I'm going to get Rahim Mosterd because he's a little bit cheaper and he could end up being the guy for San Francisco. But we know that Arizona and San Francisco have two very attractive backfields in terms of what they can produce from a fantasy perspective, whereas we're looking at Michael Carter and we're saying, we're very confident that Michael Carter is going to be the RB1 on this team, but he's still being drafted in round seven. Why is that? Well, it's because

the situation generally sucks. So if someone emerges from one of those backfields, it makes sense that the player from the backfield that's more attractive is the one that's hitting. And it just so happens that historically, we've been very, very, very good at pinpointing who the RB one is in those backfields by ADP. And so essentially what this is telling us is draft Javante Williams, draft Travis ETN, draft Trace Etyn, draft Tray Sermon, and draft Chase Edmonds. Those four guys are the guys that you can really pinpoint this year and hope for a league winner. Yeah, that's great stuff, man. I think I'll take you to task on Sermon being RB1, though. I think most there might still be that RV1. Yeah, I mean, well, it's really, it's really

just going by, again, it's just going by ADP straight up, right? So if sermon, if sermon at the end, if sermon at the end of the day is not the RB1 by ADP, you know, more consensus. You know, it's, it's a little bit difficult to look at like the Buccaneers right now and say, I know for sure this guy's the, because different ADP sources might have Rojo as the RB1 and it might have Leonard for it as the RB1. It's really the situations where there's a one to two round gap where it's more clear, which is why, you know, after doing the study, I wasn't like the highest person in the world on Chase Edmonds, but after doing the study, I was just like, I mean, it's hard not to look at that situation and say, he's probably the one that you want to be targeting in the

middle rounds, despite, I mean, there's downside, of course. It's why he's being drafted in the middle rounds. But all of that sort of aligns. And the other thing, too, is that I looked into like round four and five as well to see if there's a running back in round four and five in the dead zone, who had a teammate drafted in a single-digit rounds with them, and those running backs also hit at a higher rate than the alternative. So, you know, if Travis E. T.N. and Javante Williams see their ADP rise a little bit, as long as their teammate is still, you know, in there, in those single-digit rounds, you should feel confident in drafting them.

Yeah, a lot of good stuff there. My thing, just on from a player perspective, real quick, my thing with Chase is like, yeah, I think the cost is fine, round six, round seven. you can kind of, a lot of the teams I'm doing for best balls, like I'm doing, you know, like I'll take one back in the first round, especially when I have like a top four or five pick. And then I literally won't touch it because I just love the receivers and the quarterbacks like I talked about through that, you know, rounds two through five range. Then in round six, yeah, Edmonds is, I like, everything you, you kind of spelled out there makes a ton of sense.

And I'm with you on it. But my thing with Edmonds is the touchdowns. It's like, are they going to let him score in close? Like, not only is there kind of, a threat with James Connor as the bigger back is on the goal line. But Kyler Murray, nine of his 11 rushing touchdowns last year were designed plays. Like they love to get Kyler out in space, designing him in, you know, in space inside of the 5, 10 yard line. I really want to be in on Chase Edmund this year. And he was like one of those, he's one of those two or three guys I was mentioning

earlier that I do like in the dead zone, air quotes, dead zone. But the touchdown thing concerned me with them. look that was the exact same way that I was viewing chase edmonds before I did this study and then I started thinking more about the situation because the way that I draft in redraft is I look at each player's ADP versus their projected output and what we think they're going to do and I try my best to say is this guy being drafted with a ton of assumptions attached to him and a really good example of this and I didn't do this I did this last year for the Seahawks wide receivers right because everyone's like oh it's a pass heavy. offense or it's on a pass heavy offense so we're going to fade these guys or not draft them as high as they probably should be drafted even though they're going to get a 25% target share and a russell boulson let offense we're going to get them in the fourth round fifth round uh because they're going to be a run heavy team well what if they're not a run heavy team right and i didn't do that i didn't do that enough with stephan digs unfortunately uh which was stupid uh in in hindsight

it's like i was fine with not being as in like keen and allen last year because a lot of things aligned for him right with justin herbert ended up you know hitting and and and and things just working out. But with Stefan Diggs, it was literally, like, mostly a play calling thing, right? And so I think that when you, when you have these assumptions, a good example this year, entering this year is Naji Harris, right? There's this assumption that the Steelers offensive line is going to be absolute trash, right? Well, well, they were also absolute trash last year. Probably not going to be any worse than what they were last year, but you have to bake in the fact that there's variance there. There's variance in offensive line play. And it's very easy for that to be a

little bit better. Not only that, we know that volume is what wins. We know that volume is what's more important. And so, you know, that makes Najee Harris to me more of a value than to other people. And so with Chase Edmonds in the way that I would view it, and I think you could use the same logic with Austin Echler. If Austin Echler were to see goal line work, he could be a top three running back in fantasy football, right? But we're under the assumption that he's not going to see it. I think that's the probable outcome, but we don't know that for sure. With Chase Edmonds, I think it's the probable outcome, but he's almost a discount Echler from that standpoint. I'm not saying he's as good or that he's going to see the same target share or anything like that, but they accumulate points in a similar

way. And so if we go under the assumption that Chase Edmonds is not going to score any touchdowns, or he's not going to see goal line work. If you look at his ADP, everyone else is going with that same assumption. Right. And so realistically, you could start to think about the ceiling a little bit more and say, well, if Chase Edmonds sees even a fraction of Kenyon Drake's goal line work last year, then all of a sudden he's going to easily pay off at ADP and exceed expectation by a large margin. So I was totally in the same boat as you dude, like five days ago. And then I started digging into this more. And I've just kind of switched with Chase Edmonds and I'm way more into them, though. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. We were talking, we had a big call earlier

this week with the staff. Scott was bringing up Travis E.TN. It was kind of like a, it was like a sword fight type of player with ETN. And you mentioned E.T.m, too. Like, Scott, let me give you the floor with ETM because I don't think you really got to like fully go into why you're in on ETN this year. But I have a feeling it's kind of the same line of thinking as what JJ just spelled out with Chase Evans. Yeah. So I mean, I agree with you guys. Like I'm typically trying to get my running backs in the first three rounds. Maybe the fourth round. I think there's one or two guys in the fourth round right now.

Etienne going in the fifth. Yeah, I mean, round one draft capital. I think the argument against him is fairly easy. It's, hey, James Robinson was excellent last year. He averaged over 100 yards from scrimmage per game on a one-win team. He's not going to go gently into that good night. Fair enough. And Urban Myers said some really weird stuff regarding Etienne.

Like, you know, there's concern that he might be some sort of positionless gadget player or he's going to be played out of position at wide receiver. I think there is some legitimate concern there. But I talked to a high-ranking source familiar with Meyer, who told me basically, listen, the guy's a well-known liar, but he is brilliant. He is really smart, and I'm very confident. This is going to be Etienne's backfield at some point in the season, where he becomes a true bell cow.

And they're just trying to make sure he's right when it comes to catching passes. and then, you know, he should be. He was great last year, in which case, you know, sky is really the limit for him. But with regards to that, you know, playing him out of position, like Meyer compared him to sort of the Percy Harvin, Curtis Samuel, who he had in college. Those guys played wide receiver in the NFL,

but they were running backs under Meyer. And if you look at that role, pulling up the numbers now, that was a super valuable role for fantasy. So from 2007 to 2008, Harvin averaged 24.1 fantasy points per game, granted it was college, but on only 26% of the team's non-QB runs. And for Curtis Samuel, the same thing in 2016, 25.2 fantasy points per game on just 28% of the team's non-QB runs. Remember, targets are more valuable in PPR leagues. That's where you would target an ETN target.

It's worth 2.64 times as much as a carry. but really this reminds me a lot of Alvin Kamara, who was a guy I was higher on than most in his rookie season. The GM, Mickey Loomis just came out and said, hey, this is a player we coveted. We expect him to immediately fill that Reggie Bush and Darren Spurl's role that we had that was so successful for us in the past. And that was a super productive role for fantasy. Bush in his first three seasons averaged over 16.5 fantasy points per game. Darren Sproul's same thing in his first two seasons. And so I think what you're hoping for from Etienne is, you know, this sort of scatback on steroids role that Alvin Kamara has. And who knows, you know,

maybe my source is right. And, you know, he is a bell cow, in which case he could be a potential lead winner. Obviously, this is the, the bull case argument for him. I'm not going to end up with a ton of exposure. But I do think he is, he is pretty misprice. The one thing I'll say about Cameras, you know, he was like one. of the top players, if not the top back and win rate that year. I'd have to look it up in his rookie year. But he was like an 11th or 12th round pick. You know, ETN, ETN you're getting, if everything you said is right, and I follow all of that logic, if everything you said is right, you're still getting him at a discount, but it's still like, it's not a deep, deep

discount like Camara was, or even frankly like, you know, Trey Sermann or Michael Carter are this year. I guess that's my one, my one thing. And ETIN usually goes before Giovante, Williams. And I think everything you just said can be applied to Javante Williams and then some because the Broncos defense is much better. They should be in closer games, which leads them running. And they have a better offensive line. So I guess that's my, I've certainly had a blind spot for E.T in this year. But I think all of the logic you just put out there makes a ton of sense. Yeah. I mean, and then again, he fits the criteria of this like ambiguous backfield to running backs being drafted in the single digit rounds in the RB one from a from an ADP.

perspective has typically really panned out in those situations. So I'm definitely in on ETN. I think, you know, is Urban Meyer sharp? I don't know. Like there's there's fear of like Urban Meyer just not being the sharpest head coach. I mean, you, and you look at the front. I mean, the fact that they went out and got ETN in the first place kind of alludes to that too, right? It's a little bit scary that they, that they went and did that. But the fact that they did do that, you know, I was, I was really into James Robinson last year, right? I'm totally into him. And I, you know, you had a great season.

But I was, I just can't get behind this like logic of them drafting Travis Etyn still makes James, still can allow James Robinson to be relevant. Yeah. So if nothing else, I think the study that I talked about and what we're talking about here, it's like, you know, you don't necessarily like to target those RB ones, but at least fade those RB2s. Yeah. You know, at least fade like the Melvin Gordon's, the James Combin.

honors the James Robinson's because they just don't pan out at that high of a rate. And really, you know, are you going to get a league winning season from guys who are already capped by other players who are better pass catchers in their backfield? And that's really the quote, you know, maybe Melvin Gordon aside, we don't know for sure, but even still, I think Javonte Williams is a great three down back. So, yeah, I mean, it's very interesting. But I'm in on ETN as well, based on the study, based on the fact that the capital and what we've seen with first round running backs historically. And he was just a freaking good prospect, too.

Yeah. Yeah, all true. I'm with you on Giovante, too, because he's such a good pass blocker. And I think that's going to earn snaps. Snaps early on. ETIN wasn't so much, but I don't really know if that matters for him because in theory, if he's going to be on the field and passing down, he's going to be running a route on like 90% of those snaps or something. Yeah. Man, this was really, really great discussion about the running backs. Before we get out of here, I have to ask you who your favorite late round quarterback is this year. And I need you to tell me why it's Trey Lance. Yeah, man, you know, I did the Scott Fish Bowl.

I got both Justin Fields and Trey Lance. And that is my QB1 and QB2. I mean, my league was just so, so into these early round quarterbacks. So I just was pivoting. But yeah, I mean, I'm going to go for the upside with the rushing. I think Trey Lance is it. And I'm also cool that, you know, like I said earlier, I think there's like these like pockets throughout your draft.

Like if I'm targeting those, those elite guys, you know, I'm just looking at the bottom of that tier. I love Russell Wilson this year. So he's a guy that I'm targeting a lot. And then you can go with Jalen Hertz if you want to. And then I love Ryan Tannahill this year for obvious reasons. And then if I'm not getting those guys, I'm typically going to go after one of these rookie quarterbacks.

I think that, you know, last year was the year of the middle round quarterback. I think this year could be the year of the rookie quarterback. Damn. Love that. Love that. We've been talking to Trillance on the podcast every single week. So just keep the hype machine rolling, man. I've been all in on Lance.

But this is awesome, man. This was awesome. So cool to get back into a reunion. This was way too long in the making. We needed it to do this years ago. But JJ, thank you so much for your time, man. Anything you want to plug or shout out you have coming up, like with training camp around the corner, like, anything you have going on, like, content-wise. Like, what's coming up for the 2021 season for you?

Yeah, so I, you know, the late round podcast is where I put most of my effort these days. So, you know, I did the breakout running back episode this past Monday. I'll be doing a wide receiver one next week and then a tight end one the week after that digging into some trends. There's a cool trend that I found with wide receivers that I'll talk about on there. And then, yeah, I mean, that's really it. You know, the late round podcast can find it anywhere you get your podcasts. Nope. Yeah, definitely.

If you're not listening to that, definitely check out JJ's podcast. it's always, what I always appreciate about it, is like you're not wasting any latey's time. You go in there and you get straight to it and it's 15 to 20 minutes because my attention span at this point is absolute trash. So I always appreciate that. But yeah, thank you again, man, for coming on. We'll have to run it back, you know, maybe sometime next off season. We'll get and have some more free time and get to it. But, yeah, Swamprats, thanks for listening.

We'll be back next week with another guest, chopping it up. is we get a couple weeks away from training camp. It's unbelievable. From my perspective, this year is just completely falling by. I can't believe it's hard of the 15th. But again, thanks for listening, everybody. For JJ, thanks again. Scott, I'm Graham. We'll catch you next time. Welcome to Fantasy Points Radio. We bring to you Barfield and Peret. All of these, all of these, all of these, all of these,

parents. They hell of embarrassed. Like why did they air it? of these errors. In Boff it and Barry, you cannot compare with the kings of this era there should be a tariff on all of this knowledge that fall out regardless and straight to the point like a crow. Popping in common is losing my oxygen takes as they got made me go. Whoa. So what's the swamp I gotta do? I'm chasing all of this cheese even if my competition grew. Deuces to the mania boy is never regressing offseason through the season. Three six five, two four seven and there's one for the money. Two bars on the show money. Two points but then they