Fantasy Football Daily - Amari Cooper And Davante Adams TRADED + ELITE RB Tiers | Dynasty Fantasy Football 2024

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

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I'm Thomas Tipple. That's Jacob Sanderson. We're one half of the host of Dynasty Points. Last week's show was so combative. We needed to bring a public service announcement to this week's show. This show was so hot. It forced me to lose power halfway through. We're going to do the running back tears. Who are we going to be arguing about? Who are we going to be having our fights about? Who is Lucas going to compare to T. Higgins? and we're going to cover all the latest news. Amari Cooper, Devante Adams, Justin Fields to the bench.

How is it going to affect your dynasty teams coming up? Well, after a wildly controversial week for us last week, it seems, in our comments section, we decided what better way to double down than to do an RB tiers list and truly join the rank of tier listing fantasy football YouTubers, much to your all's dismay, apparently. I'm kidding.

of course as this was our most watched live stream and our most downloaded podcast yet on this network. So shout out to all you guys for continuously liking, subscribing, and feeding our families with timbits and ice coffees as you've been doing all year. We love and appreciate all of you. But just because this is an RB tier ranking show that we'll have more on later does not mean we can't touch on some of the insane moves that have happened. This feels like an NBA trade deadline period for the NFL. Kind of insane. Many two and

four teams are posting the Undertaker memes as they might have new wide receiver ones. We're going to talk about a lot of the changes who it affects, etc. Of course, I'm your host. I'm Thomas Tipal. You can find me at El Nostra Thomas. Joining me as always is Jacob Sanderson at Jacob Sanderson. That's Lucas

Gilbert at L. Gilbert F. and of course, new full-timer. Shout out to him. Ryan Heath. That's at Ryan J underscore Heath. Let's, normally this is the point of the program. If you're new here and ask everyone for their opinions on the weekend and what they noticed, we don't have time for that. This is going to be a three hour long program. Lucas will literally be crying and injecting himself with adrenaline to keep himself awake halfway through.

He's going to take some smelling salts to lock in. I don't know what he's going to do. But let's tap right into it. Let's talk about the train. Let's talk about the biggest one in my opinion. This is Devante Adams going to the Jets. Something we talked about in the preseason. We talked about this during the mock draft season,

the risk that went with Garrett Wilson in our opinion, things that could happen, et cetera. I have seen some up and down opinions of Garrett Wilson's fine. This isn't going to affect them. I've seen some other copium. I've seen some denial. I've seen some acceptance. Let's read this room.

I'll go last with what I think. let's read the room. Jacob looks like he's chomping at the bit. Can't sit still. Jacob, what's your first read? Oh, I feel way better about it this week

than I would have this happened like two weeks ago, right? Gary Wilson is coming off of pretty easily his best game of the season that we just all watched them play Monday night. Scoring was efficient, looked good. Was schemed up a lot better under the new OC. Only 6% of his routes in the first. five weeks, I forget who had this tweet, were overs, crosses, and posts, whereas that was 29% of his route distribution this past week, so a lot less static of a road distribution for him

led to a more efficient game plan with more runaways. So all that stuff is good. I think you feel better about Wilson the talent. Obviously, and you also have to feel better, I think, about how Rogers feels about Wilson after watching him bring in an efficient game. In terms of the Adams impact, It's definitely like a negative, right? It's not a positive. The outcome for Wilson was ideal is that he keeps dominating targets like he has been. He has the most targets in the NFL right now. And you then start to see the efficiency come around from where it was early in the season.

And we kind of saw that start last night. You know, it was the first time this season where I was like, all right, this is what I was envisioning. This is what I was drafting. That 30% target share is now up the window barring in Adams injury, which, you know, he's 32. he's coming off a hamstring injury that might have been somewhat real. I'm not sure. So I think you have outed injury, potentially have outs to Adams, just not being quite as good anymore. But I do have Adams projected higher. I think he comes in as like the mid to low end wide receiver one rest of season. I don't think he's quite what

Adams was previously. He was pretty inefficient and he was kind of up and down the last two years compared to when he was in peak Green Bay or his first season in Las Vegas. But look at Alan Lizard, who, like, is not good. One of the lowest open scores in the NFL hat was so unplayable last year. He was healthy scratched for, like, Jason Brownlee. And solely based on his familiarity with Rogers has looked kind of sort of useful this year and has been useful for fantasy. So you look at sort of how much the familiarity matters with Rogers. I think Adams comes in as that low and mid-end wide receiver one. I think Wilson stays on as a sort of a high-end wide receiver two i think we're finally done with the lezard bullshit we're basically now rogers has

an actually good wide receiver that he has the familiarity with um and and we'll see it pretty concentrated on those two games i'll add later uh ryan yeah i no huge disagreements there i'll just add allan lezard has the fourth most targets in the red zone of any wide receiver in the league right now with 10 uh wilson leads with 13 so i think that does speak to at least from what we've seen the last couple of weeks. This is an environment where both Adams and Wilson can relatively succeed in fantasy. Wilson is not going to live up to his redraft ADP, to his dynasty ADP, or what have you. But yeah, I think you can feel okay about this in terms of, yeah, I don't know. I feel better about Wilson going forward for the rest of this season than I did two weeks ago.

I'll put it that way, even with Adams. Really, even with Adams there. See, I disagree with that. I guess I thought I was pretty confident we get the bounce back that we did. It was nice to see. But I'd like to go back to two weeks ago if you tell me Adams is elsewhere. I'd happily think that trade. Fair enough.

Maybe not better. Yeah, probably close. I think the average, I feel better than the average person did two weeks ago. I should say that because I was never really actually that bearish. on Wilson but yeah that that's how I would phrase that that's fair yeah that's fair Lucas my gut reaction is immediately go and trade away Adams but I don't think that that's the right thing to do I think that that's just the oh I saw a little spike and keep trade cut so now's the time to go and do it if I have absolutely any shares left I do think that there's a good chance for his

value to start going up right now I will say if he has like a rough first game as a jet, then I would be looking to buy. I don't know if that's what's going to happen, but if that does happen, I'd be looking to buy. I think that as he gets a little bit more involved in the offense, gets a little bit more cut up to speed because he hasn't played in a while. Yeah, I think he knows this offense. No, I mean, I mean, more in terms of like actually like running routes on the field

and. Oh, I get you. Yeah. Yeah, not in terms of the scheme or anything, but They also haven't played together in a while. So I'm not expecting like some killer first week. But I do think though that if he does have a poor first week, there's going to be an overcorrection back. That's fair.

I understand what you're saying, right? That's taking like a like a, you know, a step back and outside of the glass box that we're in on this Twitterverse and really putting some real life application to it. I like and respect that. Devante Adams is getting 16 targets this week. He's getting every third down target. He's getting every red zone target. And Aaron Rogers is going to just look his way like a long lost family member that he's been searching for earnestly across the world, depleting his life savings to find him.

And now he has him. And he's about to light Devante Adams up with 16 targets this week. It's going to be insane. my stance is this is I'm more in line with Jacob where I think that Garrett Wilson takes a hit. He's a great talent, but I understand he's kind of living off volume right now and inefficiency.

The only part I'll disagree with Jacob on is I don't think this Lizard thing is actually going away. Rogers loves this guy. Like he loves Alan Lazard. He really does. I think maybe Alan Lazard gets the Mike Williams role now is kind of like the dream spot. Like they have escorted Mike Williams out of the building.

He's never allowed back again. He'll never play football in Jersey ever again. Someone will take his knees if it's not Rogers directly. And then Garrett Wilson kind of gets the hopefully that inside slot role that we would like. So what the two types of targets that Lazard seems to get in this offense is like one, he gets these basically tight end targets where like they don't they even have. have some of these formations where it's like Williams and Wilson are kind of two wide receivers and Lazard and Conklin basically are like tight ends and they're check releasing.

And then Lazard get these kind of dink and dunk targets where it's almost like a Conklin target. He gets some of those. I think he'll still get some of those. I suspect that's still going to be his role as that sort of blocking wide receiver, so to speak, that he was even back to his Green Bay days. The other types of targets he gets, like the big long catch that he had last night are like scramble drills and or like back shoulder sort of feel plays where rogers is like kind of just like he's just played enough with rogers that he has the kind of mind mel to be where rogers's going to be and rogers trusts lzard to be where he needs to be and he just kind of throws it up and lizard can react to that those are gone those those have number 17 written all over it now to me

like adams has made a living on that scramble drill stuff for his whole life i think lizarre It was just kind of filling in for what he wished was Devonthe Adams on those scramble drill targets. So if I have to guess, I think the like in the flow of the offense stuff is going to be pretty 50-50 with Adams and with Wilson. I think they're both rock. They might in my opinion is the best two-wide receiver combination in the NFL. And I think it'll be pretty 50-50 with those two. Then Adam's going to pull away on those scramble drill off script, off structure. I trust you.

you're my boy kind of throws. And I think that's where he pulls ahead. I think those go away from Lazart to Adams. I think Lazard still has the tight end checkdown role for sure because he's going to be that blocking in line wide receiver. Yeah, I still just think Lizard is going to be annoying. Like he's going to have those weeks where he's just annoying. He's always been annoyed.

He annoys me. But I think it'll, how can I say this? I think it'll appear like Lazard is more annoying maybe than he actually is simply because we'll be dying for every other non-examined. Adams target to go to Hall or to go to Wilson where every Lazard target is going to hit three times as hard now, especially if it's an end zone target, because Roger seems to like him in the red zone. I don't know how that goes specifically, but the other part that I feel like is not getting

talked about enough right now is the effect on Breece Hall, which I don't think it does really. I don't think it affects Bruce Hall aside from the fact that this offense is just going to be more efficient and hopefully better, giving them more opportunities. But I don't think Devante specifically affects Breeze Hall super negatively. Does anyone else? I think it's, you're going to get a, well, you're going to get a better touchdown expectation because I think this, like, I know everybody's like wall jets, but I think

this offense is going to fuck. Like, I don't, I'm not super in love with their offensive line, but everybody knows I don't look at your will. So I think he's incredible. He's one of the 10 best receivers, the NFL. NFL. We saw him play phenomenally last night. Adams, if you'd ask me two years ago, would have said he was the best wide receiver in the NFL. I don't think he's quite there anymore, but he's still very, very good. I'd still put him at least somewhere in the low tens to the high teens.

Bree tall rocks, Braylon Allen rocks, all that stuff. Great. And if you've been watching Rogers, like, I know people are hating on him a little bit because he's an annoying person. But like, even yesterday, he had 0.3 EPA for dropback, just watched him. Like, he made several sick Aaron Rogers throw. He's not MVP Rogers, but he's quite good. I think this, I think this offense going to go crazy. So more touchdowns for Hall. That's great. Downside is that he gets, he's still going to get some streams for sure. They're never going to have to check down again because if the first is Adams and the second read is Wilson or vice versa, one of those guys is always going to be open. I just don't think that the defense is ever going to be able to cover both those guys at the same time.

such ridiculous separators that the defense is going to have no choice, but to leave one of them one on one, every single play. And whoever that is, is going to be open. And so we're not going to need to be checking down to Breece Hall very frequently versus one plays now. It's like the defense can just decide, Gary Wilson doesn't get the ball to snap, find someone else, and that someone else is frequently Breece Hall.

Yeah. And I mean, to that point, the biggest correlation in terms of overall first read throw rate for an offense is just how good their wide receiver two is. That was research that I did last year. So yeah, just all around, I expect the efficiency to just kind of be incredible here. And maybe we'll talk about it when we get into the actual RB tiers. But we saw SnapShare went way up with the new OC. Yeah, great other night.

Like, we're going to be extremely bullish above 80%. Yeah, I'm like back on absolutely no concerns about Hall the rest of the season. right and before look I know we got questions we see the super chat you guys are dope we're going to answer that we're going to get through this first bit then we're going to get the questions and we'll talk about the next trade sound gee I mean we've had somebody in here who asked a question at 2.14 p.m. so I mean we we love all you guys we saw you guys today

you guys are unreal if you have questions and need them answer faster make sure you get them super chat's always an option we love you for it let's talk about the value now because this is what I what really fantasy what fantasy players I don't know where the Southern draw came from just now are really curious about buying

selling I know that in the home league Jacob Jacob Jacob Anderson this week my team looked dead and out and all of a sudden I've got two possible new wide receiver ones I Undertaker meamed right Andrew Jameson is crying because he thought he had an opportunity

to catch up with my town and crying about the rules of sleeper which is how you know he's down bad. Correct. If you want to tirade about being able to drop players that are on buy in order to pick up new players. Right. And it should lock everyone at Thursday on Thursday,

so you can't make roster additions. So obviously, Adams and Cooper are making big changes to how people perceive their teams right now. I can tell you that I'm still, I would like to sell if my team is two and four. and it's been down bad all year and all of a sudden Adams has this value. I'm shipping out for a late one. I want people to watch him score 35 points before I sell to what the Adams.

I look generally I agree, but I feel like the general fantasy market the player is not going to pay much more than that in my opinion. I don't know, man. When people see those points coming in. I agree. It can happen.

I have the sentiment on Adams too. Like there was a poll Matt Okada on Twitter I don't know, formerly of ball blast him. He reads the poll and said, who do you prefer rest of season? And I don't know where it is right now, but hours into that poll, Amari Cooper was still leading over Devante Adams. Yeah, that's insane. Oh, wow.

So, like, my read is that is the public sentiment is not high enough on Devonte Adams. And in my view, is probably a little too high on Amari Cooper. So I'm, I agree. And we'll talk about the Cooper thing. The reason I say that is, I don't think people are as loose with their ones. and pluses on top of that again for a 30, 31 year old wide receiver. Like it's, I think the player base generally has gotten smarter,

but then I also say the dynasty player base, like dynasty is the easiest format because there's always an easy out. In every league, there's like that one guy that everyone knows they can go to for a trade. Like it's just how it is. We know it. But if your team's two and four and you're just looking for the chance to get the points off the roster because of max point four

and you're starting late, moving him for a late one and some other stuff, like how much better than a late one do you think it could actually get for Adams at this point? Like I don't think it gets much, much higher. Maybe one in a three becomes a one and a two. Oh yeah. I don't know. I mean,

I don't know how many ones are going out of the window for Adams right now. I'm trying to get one. If you're rebuilding. If you're two and four and someone is the contender has like a Rishi Rice, add on to Devante Adams and go try to prime away. Like that's the type of stuff I would be doing and actively trying to do. but as for selling, I don't know if waiting for those 35 points to hit a team that's bad

that needs the max points for off the roster can afford that 35 points if you're already behind trying to gain position. So then now the next question ends up being, are you buying at all? Like he was a, I wrote him up in February as a possible buy in the seventh. So what are we spending? What are people,

what should people be willing to spend? I don't know what you can, what you can afford to parse. That's true. Late one, Lay one value without giving a pick. It would be the hope. Or like I would give an actual,

I would give an actual 251 if I have a dominant team with a, that's in bi-week position. Yeah. I wouldn't give a 26 or a 27-1 because that's a downside risk. But if I have a bi-week, if I have a team that's 5 and 1, 6-0, and I have a need there, I'm totally fine with,

with sending out my 251 for Adams in that spot. Because the way, The way I read it too, like he took on the restructure with the void years. Like I think we're getting a one and a half years here. I think we're getting the rest of this year. And then I would bet that they figure out some way to make it work with the money to have Rogers and Adams play one final sendoff season next year. And I strongly suspect that as long as he stays healthy, he'll score a lot of points for as long as he's playing with Aaron Rogers. A lot of this, I agree.

I would try to find late one adjacent pricing. send a Bucky Irving and something on top go get ready to move a key on Coleman because I'm already out as it is You want to talk about a re-roll of a late one? He's the type of player I'm doing it for There are some options for you to consider in the in the late one adjacent pricing let's take our first break and we come back we're gonna hit a couple questions We're gonna answer the super chat and then we're gonna get into a Mari Cooper Which I think is actually the more important conversation Maybe not the bigger conversation, but more important in my opinion.

And I'll tell you why as soon as we get back. Sit tight. When you're flying Emirates business class, sampling our range of vintage wines from the largest selection in the skies, you'll see that your vacation isn't really over until your flight is over. Fly Emirates. Fly better. All right. Let's answer the super chat right here from Myra Williams, the 499. Question, I got Sequin and A-chan, in all caps, for London and Bijon. Not, I don't see the question in that. I don't know if it's, if you're flexing on us here.

I got Sequin. If you're asking, if you should do the deal, I like London and Bejan, but I'm assuming this is like a maybe a redraft question. Yeah, please do clarify, and we will answer it as soon as we get it. Um, if, if we're right in our assumption that it is a redraft question of Sequin and A Chan or London and Bijon, um, I want London and Bijon side on either way. So I think I disagree. I think I definitely want London and B. John. I think redraft. I do want Seekwan and E Chan. Same for redraft. Yeah. I think I do. I think I do. Okay. I'm on the, I'm on the outs there. That's fine. That's fine. I can live at that. Wide receiver boy. wide receipt come on

I'm sorry that I don't draft enough veteran running backs in the sixth round for you Ryan Cooper is perfect personnel fit for with the Buffalo wide receiver core lax right now go bills from Steve he wants to know how many games for Cooper to get up to speed my guess is after the

week 12 by who will be all systems go before that it will be a mixed bag I don't have any thoughts on that I think it's those mafia yeah I don't know like there are not, maybe you guys can think of some comparable situations. It's pretty rare that we get a mid-season trade like this for a wider. I know one wide receiver that's traded mid-season before.

Exactly. Yes. Aside right. Amari Cooper himself. And yes, it did go great when he went. Yeah, no. So I don't know. I would say like, I think it depends how do you think Cooper's going to win and score fantasy points, right. If it's going to be, okay, he's going to be like the primary read, he's going to be like working within the system and kind of like a normal wide receiver, fine. But if you're envisioning that he's just like the Josh Allen out of structure deep bomb guy, which I think is what you would hope it is at least part of his role in the Bulls case, I don't see why that can't happen right away. Right. So I don't know. I can give like the full Bulls case for. Cooper if we want to move into that right now. Yeah, let's talk about you guys. Okay. So I wrote this up for the Everything Report.

So I'll give kind of the Bulls case. I know Jacob specifically. I got a big bear case. So I'm happy to let you bowl it up. Yeah. All right. So Amari Cooper last year in games with either Joe Flacco or Deshaun Watson when he was not as terrible as he has been playing currently.

was averaging wide receiver 1 numbers, right? I believe it was just over 17 fantasy points for game if you exclude the games with like PJ Walker and Dorian Thompson Robinson. So last time Cooper had relatively decent QB play, he was scoring as an every week low-end wide receiver 1. So I understand that going to a new team, a new system, it's not always going to immediately transfer over.

Buffalo has kind of wanted to be a little bit more run heavy, especially since their new OC took over through halfway through last year. So I don't know that this is just, oh, like copy paste Stefan Diggs from 2022 and that's the type of season we're going to get. I'm not saying that. But I do think this is a really good skill set match, right? So Josh Allen, the past two seasons has just been top 10 in deep yards per game. so attempts over 20 plus yards. Right now he ranks, I think it was 27th, on deep passing yards per game.

I have the tweet out there. And it's because he has no one to throw too deep, right? And Amari Cooper, it's kind of a match made in heaven, right? Leads the, or third in the NFL in total air yards, leads the NFL in uncatchable air yards per game because Deshaun Watson has been what he's been. So I just think that this is a really, good skill set match in terms of it's kind of what both players need it's kind of what both of them

have been asking for this entire season cooper needs someone who can throw a decently accurate deep ball i think josh allen's more than capable of that allen needs an actual deep weapon an actual big play weapon so he doesn't have to kind of dink and dunk to kalil shakir and just run it himself on every play. But you guys can take that in either direction you like. I think that this is an awesome real-life trade. The bills had, like, they were running out Mack Hollins and MVS and Kionn Coleman, who wears the defender as a backpack on every play.

And it just, it wasn't, it wasn't working for Josh Allen and this offense. They were playing small ball. The problem is, I do kind of think that's what Joe Brady likes to do. I think he loves to play small ball. He wants to run the ball. He wants to throw stupid screens. He wants to throw a little drag routes to Khalil Shakir and Dalton Ginkade. That to me is what he wants to do. When he had this off, when he had his chance in Carolina, you know, what did he do with DJ Moore, who was clearly his best weapon? He was like, go run a bunch of deep routes and sometimes we'll target you if we feel like it. But mostly,

we just want you to open up space so we can throw a bunch of goofy bullshit to Curtis Samuel. but off to Christian McCaffrey over and over again. That's kind of like what his vibe has been as an offensive play caller to me. Last year, like he didn't use Diggs at all. Diggs plummeted off the face of the earth with Joe Brady there. And it was all about Shakir and Kincaid. So to me, like when I look at why do they trade for Amari Cooper? I'm just not convinced that they actually traded for Amari Cooper to throw to Amari Cooper.

I feel like they traded for Amari Cooper to pull safeties away from Khalil Shakir. in Dalton Kincaid. So they can do the bullshit that they want to do. So, like, I think that Amari Cooper is going to have a very nice real-life role for the Buffalo Bills. I don't think he's actually going to be that worthwhile for fantasy. I think especially the first few weeks, he's going to be running a lot of decoy stuff and he's going to just be doing a better job of the Mack Hollins where it's going to be like,

if he has single coverage, we'll throw it to him as an alert. But I don't know that they're going to design a lot of stuff for him. I'll also just note, he is dead last in the east. SPN composite wide receiver ratings right now, and he's 73rd in OpenScore. I think that he was just quiet quitting personally. I don't think that he's washed. I think he just didn't want to be on his own ground anymore. But I will at least raise it as like a possibility that he is actually watched, right?

I remember when we did the whole Alan Robinson as quiet quitting thing, and it turned out he was just washed. I don't think Cooper is, but it's at least a possibility. I will say Adams and Cooper both have not looked very good in the average separation score. either this season right I think I would say yeah both of them probably don't don't care that didn't care that much but yeah I think that that concern maybe applies to Adams what what part of Adams like was it the like I got to get the fuck out of here before I die like comments is that the dead giveaway that he didn't care I don't

know maybe with Amari Cooper like I was joking with Andy Buckler from the fantasy points discord that I think Mari Cooper is deliberately dropping as many passes as possible. Because like when a wide receiver shows us they're washed at like 30, it's usually the legs, the whatever. It's his hands. Like this dude,

we'd be looking at him so much different. This dude would be a mid wide receiver two, if not wide receiver one right now. If he just caught footballs. And he's just decided with Benny Hill music playing over his highlight reel to just drop and pop every ball in the air. He won it out, I feel like.

and did what he could to get traded. I really, honest to God, feel like that's what he did and it played out. I don't think he's going to be as bad as maybe Jacob is saying, but I do think his wide receiver one days are over because Josh Allen does now spread the ball around and they have a lot of different,

like Matt Collins is just going to keep catching passes and getting targets for some stupid reason. Because again, we didn't think Joe Brady was a great play caller. No, I think Matt Collins. I think Matt Collins is now. I think we're done with back.

I don't know. I don't know. Hopefully. Hopefully, but like, Harper's going to run all the routes. Shakir's going to run all the routes. I agree there. You're going to use a lot of two tight end sets.

So really it's just who's the third wide receiver running like 60% of the routes. And like my guess is it'll be mostly Keong Coleman with a sprinkling of Curtis Samuel whenever they feel like calling a play that won't work. It's going to be Ray Davis out wide. That's what it's going to be their wide receiver. Hey. Hey, there we go. There we go. but yeah i i think i'm more inclined to agree that cooper is probably the bigger sell out of this

hype machine than adams is we actually had that question asked uh and i would like to give the proper shout out for it but now i cannot find the comment um i would i would just say while you're looking for that yeah if your dynasty team is suddenly looking a lot better to you now that because it has Cooper Adams on it and it's like oh this is totally going to save my two and four team it's probably not that you should probably sell that trade at the highest that's where I would be at I'll also just say too on the wash stuff like maybe this is maybe this is unfair to like hold it against Cooper to an extent and not against Adams but I Adams is like a Hall of Fame level talent and and I guess like I just have a very high threshold

to believe that that level of receiver is cooking. compared to like an Amari Cooper level receiver, right? And no, and I'm not trying to offend Amari Cooper. I like Amari Cooper. He's been a very good wide receiver for a very long time. But, you know, he ain't Devante Adams. And it's just, I think that the true grates do age a little bit differently unless their body just gets consumed by injury.

So I gave him a little bit more benefit of the doubt on that. Yeah, agree with that. I also just, I love this. Josh was I think Cooper could be cooked. Well, Cooper's with the bills. He is not cooked. I love that. But he says he's cooked,

but Alan will spark life this year. I think he'll have games. Touchdowns are definitely possible. But he's, yeah, he's, I liked his role in Cleveland. It just,

it didn't work out, right? 10 targets a game, 12. Oh, baby, let's go. I don't know if he's getting that.

As for the question I was looking for, I said, he's like the wider 30 rest of season. Yeah. I would say, I would say, 20, 28, you could get into the back end wide receiver two. But actually, I'll actually take your side. I'll take 30. I'll take, we may get 29 and a half so I can, I can take 30.

I'll take the old bro, 29 and a half. I'll be quite, I'll be quite a bit higher than that. I put it as like top 18 is kind of my expectation. And I've seen that projected around the industry as well. Ryan, if you gave me plus, would you give me plus 200 that Khalil Shakir outscores and rest of the season? Yeah. Yeah.

Or hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. Hang on, hang on. We need a games minimum. I'm going to be annoying about this bet. We need a games played minimum for both of them. This is PPR scoring, right? Yeah, PPR scoring. There are how many games left in the season?

there are 11. So we'll say a games played minimum of six. Okay. Yeah. Minimum six. Points per game. PPR. Yeah.

I'll give you plus 200 there. Yeah. Okay. $50. $50 stakes? Yeah. Sounds good. Okay.

There we go. We can mark it down. For the for the non, for the three people in our in our chat that are not degenerate gamblers, this means that, uh, um, I get 100 if I win this bet. Ryan gets $50. There we go. Here's the question of the hour though.

Cooper trade value could use a running back or a draft pick. This is going to be the question. So Mark, I'm very sorry. I'm not going to try that last name. I'm going to not sound intelligent doing it. Mark, but we love and appreciate you. Sure.

I'll trust you. I'm not going to try that at all. All right. Let's talk about what are we trading them away for? What are we getting after we've just had two different sides of the coin here? Early two. Early two. Okay.

Early two. Try to get a three on top. Here's the question, though. This is the same issue I had last night on Twitter with the early two. You're going to have to work some real magic if you're pulling an early two off of a roster that wants Amari Cooper. Like you need the perfect scenario. So are we talking early two adjacent?

Because no Rebuilder is coughing up a two for a Mario. Cooper. And if they are, they need to seriously be checked into a dynasty rehab. Well, I just go to the person and be like, hey, I kind of need an early two, but you don't have an early two. How about I take your 26, 2 and you throw in. Thank you. Okay. That makes sense to me. And not a third or whatever. I like that. I like that. See, that expands on the just get an early two for player X thing that I was losing my mind in our dynasty DMs about. It does frustrate the hell out of me. I agree with that. I think that's a fine, that's a fine take.

Lucas, it's been like five minutes. I know. I've been watching the old cook, man. But thank you, Jacob. He's never beating the allegations. Yeah. You know, I don't do anything to help myself there, but. AJ Hawk to a down there.

Oh, dang. You know, on that, Mike. We can't. we can't be making Hawk to a joke that week week seven into our fantasy season the year of our Lord

24 that's the number one podcast in America right now right true you're right so I gotta show some I gotta show some respect that's on me that's on me fam all right let's talk about the trade values here

oh my gosh I will at least say this I'm very interested on Mari Cooper just based off of what I believe his cost is going to be. I think that he's going to sustain the cost or be a little bit lower than what you would initially have to pay for him compared to Tvante Adams. I think that Adams's cost is going to skyrocket at some point in time throughout this season, at least a lot earlier than Amari Cooper.

I don't think that you have to go and trade for Amari Cooper this week. I think you're going to have a lot longer chance to potentially trade for him. and I think that the chat throughout week 12 is the time that he might be more in the groove. I think that that's very realistic. I think that at some point in time throughout the fantasy playoffs, he is going to have a week-winning week,

and it's going to be amazing. Now, Devante Adams, it's probably going to have more week-winning weeks throughout the season, but I am at least a little bit more interested in terms of what I'd have to pay for Cooper to get that kind of production, especially during the playoffs.

Yeah. I can vibe with that. I think the same. I don't think I'm buying Cooper at all. So I'm not even, if you're a contending team and you're down that horrendously bad, I would check in on the price maybe,

but I'm not, you're going to kind of need the perfect mix for me, the perfect sell possibility, like an estimate type that someone might be into to like roll the dice maybe type deal, but I don't think I'm giving up like draft capital form. And I'm agreeing with Jacob here.

I would take early second adjacent type prices, which you can find in the Fantasy Points Discord with our Dynasty tier trading chart, which will be updated this week after the big news. You can only get that, by the way, in the Discord. You will not find a trade dynasty tier chart for Superflex on the website. Only place you can get it is in the Discord, which you can get in the website.

The Dynasty channel this year right now is free. So it costs you nothing to get in and get the information. Tom, I am curious. You threw out Bucky Irving's name with Devante Adams. I think you're saying, Bucky Irving in like a second or something for DeVante Adams. Where are you putting that same like similar trade, Bucky and Mari Cooper?

Like what would that deal? I would just rather have Bucky Irving. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I would just rather have Bucky Irving. Right? Like if Bucky Irving is the early two type, right? Let's just discuss last night on Twitter.

Then I would just rather hold on to that for Amari Cooper different with something like Adams or something like. like that but I wouldn't I wouldn't be moving him to go and get a cooper I think he could score the same as Cooper by the end of the year really so yeah I'm holding on to him I'm holding on to him I also just talk about him on this show from a buying perspective like I mean we'll have a we always do a trade deadline show we'll probably do one like that again this year oh yeah like one of the big rules of buying is like I always I would rather spend more for a larger impact than spend less like I just if there's one thing I don't usually like

like doing and every team is different. But to the extent we can apply a general rule, I don't, I don't love doing like depth buys where it's like, oh, let's get a wide receiver too. You know, I'll get a running back. Like, there's circumstances where that makes sense, but usually if you're going to spend draft capital to go buy at the deadline, like I kind of rather just go big game hunting and really juice my point projection. So I, I think Adams is going to be a guy that I actually do buy on a decent chunk of my contenders, especially just, I'm going to try this week. We'll see. Maybe the market's going to be too cold, but I bet that he's, just because he's barely played and he's only had like one really useful game, I wouldn't be surprised if there are

a decent chunk of two and four teams sitting on Devante Adams that have just been like, I'll wait until he's traded to decide if I'm going to trade them. I'll sit him on my IR for now, and now they're anxious to unload them. And I'll be there. I'll be there. I'll be there. We want to take them. Yeah. I kind of agree with how we, how we handled both of those situations. I just want to get caught up on some questions before we move on.

There's two more things I kind of want to talk about in the opening. So yet to get to a lot quicker. Let me tell you that for sure. I just want to get caught up. How dot D, say, complete the sentence. Garrett Wilson was going to finish his wide receiver X, and he will now finish his wide receiver Y. I think that's kind of fun.

Who wants to take the first step? I'll take this as like if you asked me last night before the trade Yeah Yeah So would have finished as I'll say like the wide receiver 6 Now I'll give it like the wide receiver

14 Okay I don't need to answer that's like basically exactly what I would have said Lucas I was going to put on probably about wide receiver 12 And now I'm sitting about wide receiver 16 to 18 okay i had him at finishing at like wide receiver eight i would say and i'll say probably now 14 i'll say 14 now um we would have finished his wide receiver one and now he'll finish his wide receiver one

yeah no tyler wants to know is this a q and a chat don't want to be disrespectful you can ask whatever you want and hopefully if we have time we get to it we try our best but look we we used to do these shows in an hour can you believe that shit we used to do this show in an hour and now that's out the window because I literally had people asking us to go three hours, which we try not to do. But I mean, yeah, probably tonight.

We are angling for that. Y'all just never won't me asleep again. That's what's bound to determine to happen. No, no, see, no, see you started collecting paychecks for fantasy football,

which means you have lost the right to go to bed. You're now married to the game. That means you don't get to sleep. So remember that. All right. First, congratulations. If you're not looking

at the prize picks prop finder that Lucas is built and created on the Fantasy Points website, you're literally costing yourself money. This thing is mint. He built it himself. This is unreal.

It is cashing money all through Fantasy Points Discord and beyond love all that. JMW85. Good trades have revived my season one and three to start now three and three. At the cost of Nico, JMO and E.

was able to get two trades haul and chase over the past three weeks. That sounds dope to me. That sounds great. Sounds like you're a good player and we should be taking your advice. Over ours. He says,

are we worried about Jaden Reed's role not expanding like we hope, lower A dot, and JSA and Zayd flowers all getting put out on punt return and getting injured. I think Jaden, we touched on that last week.

Jaden Reed, Jacob, you're the Jaden Reed guy. He went immediately back for sticks for 28 with everyone. He also missed some time in that game. He had an ankle injury that he left within the first half, then later came back. Are you still not concerned with six for 28 when everyone else was healthy? I'd be concerned if he like didn't like miss 30% of the game within ankle injury.

How many six for 28th was it going to take for you to become concerned? Because you were clearly the way highest. Hold on. No, I feel like I have any other six for 28 this year? Like I, we just didn't, what about two weeks ago? I got to ask. I got to ask. Yard bomb.

Like I, the. The thing with that Jaden Reed A-DOT, I don't think that A-DOT is a great stat for him. In the same way that I think it's not a great stat for Zayflower sometimes. And that, like, Reed gets some targets just that are, like, way behind the line of scrimmage, where he'll get some of these, like, tap passes or some of these, like, kind of double-reverse bullshit, where it's like, he'll have an A-DOT of, like, minus 10 on one reception or minus six on one reception. And so then it really limits the whole A-Dot. but like if you look at his role,

he does do normal wide receiver stuff. Like you watched him win big, deep on that play two weeks ago. He's had other stuff. So I think with Reed, the AdD is a little bit fake in that it doesn't just describe like a succession of six-yard Wondale targets. It's a mix of like truly behind the line of scrimmage scheme stuff with some regular wide receiver stuff mixed in.

I would also say his role has expanded. Like Jane Reed was running like a 65% round share. last year and he he's up to 74 73-ish percent like normal wide receiver stuff like I yeah I don't know I was like the read skeptic before the season I I kind of seen enough I I think I just fine he's good like that yeah that I'm not having the jaden read battle anymore I got to ask I got to ask for the people right we got it look I like I said I got something funny coming up just because of our insane comment section uh from last week um but yeah we do like to have fun here we do got ask some questions. I think he's a very good player that's going to have up and down weeks.

There, that's my, that's my Jaden Reed analysis. But he's not fucking Debo. Stop with that. Because Debo earns insane amounts of targets and is used completely different. He's not Debo. He's not even Debo adjacent. Is he used completely different? Yeah.

We don't need to have this argument right now, but like. But he's not Debo. Does he? Yes. Debo. What exactly is different about Debo's. I mean, Debo can't separate as well as much worse against man coverage.

I know that's one difference. Well, let's have a look and see if Jaden Reed has ever had 120 targets. Well, we don't have to look too hard since it's the second season in the NFL, but he's probably going to have 120 targets this year. I'm just saying he's not, he's not Debo. He doesn't earn the same

targets that Debo has. Hasn't yet. He's not Debo. He doesn't get used at running back. Like he's not, he's not debo period he's just not um let's have a look do we have anything alfredo comes into the chat this is becoming one of my favorite shows he says thank you we much love and appreciate you on that um i missed that one

earlier there's some kansas city chief stuff here we can't really speak on uh b tj or garrott wilson i'm still going garrott wilson i saw this exact trade go down that's not what the terese last week said yeah all this feel like we yes feel like someone was on the other side of that last week i mean after getting roasted for not having brian thomas junior in the s tier and then uh or sorry in the a tier and then having garrott wilson be in the b tier after i wanted him in the a tier yeah that is not how that conversation went fair yeah that's fair um i i was known as a bowling ball like people was read is now better at that rule I think that's fine

I didn't say never said Jaden Reed's not a baller don't hear what I'm not saying I have a lot of him I just he's not Divo yeah I forgot I forgot that we have to hashtag learn ball and hashtag watch film people people

hearing what I'm not saying yeah and Josh was that Debo said put fear into defenders because he would hit him differently for sure I'll give yeah that's that's yeah It's just, it's not a one-for-one comp. He plays more like a literal running back,

if that, I don't know why that's relevant to, is Jaden Reed good, though? Marl wants to know if he should trade Godwin and Brian Thomas for Mike Evans-Reed and Addison. We always assume Dynasty unless otherwise noted. Either way, I want Godwin. Which case, yeah. Yeah, I want Godwood and Thomas for sure. In redraft, too. I doubt it was in Dynasty.

I definitely want the other side of Dynasty. Interesting. Lucas. And redraft. Oh, I think, I think I'm leaning towards Mike Evans, reading the Edison there. I'm also the lowest on Brian Thomas Jr. out of all of us,

so I don't think that that's too. Yeah, you didn't watch enough film according to the comments section. I know. You have the hashtag watch like a player that I can really do. Have you considered learning ball? You know, I have a football for dummies book somewhere. I will start to display that until I have learned enough ball. I'll give you a little update, a little book report.

too on what says so yeah you only made the one comp that about 75% of big fantasy made on Brian that's exactly what he looks like yeah um I mean shame on you Lucas I know shame on you we're gonna take our second break this is gonna be a long show so we're gonna pause between a breaks and then we're gonna come back we're gonna talk about yeah we're gonna talk about some field stuff and then we're gonna get into tears um so quick break and be right back. At Desjardin, we speak business. We speak startup funding and comprehensive game plans.

We've mastered made to measure growth and expansion advice, and we can talk your ear off about transferring your business when the time comes. Because at Desjardin business, we speak the same language you do. Business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us, and contact Desjardin today. We'd love to talk, business. I feel like we have to talk about Justin Fields here because there's a lot of discourse on Twitter.

This is the worst decision possible. Oh, who could have saw this coming? And the answer should have been all of you. All of you should have seen this coming. All the Steelers have talked about is when Russell Wilson is healthy. He's getting a shot. Now, whether like Russell Wilson stays as the starter is one thing, he could come out and play like absolute dog shit. And they go back to Fields perhaps.

but they won Wilson. Like that was their play. They told you the NFL said in the in the preseason, it came out that NFL teams view Justin Fields as a backup. Justin Fields came in and has won some games, but his passing again, you know, he doesn't, they clearly don't trust him to operate like a full offense in terms of passing the ball.

They love him in the run game. Arthur Smith loves him. But I really think they want Wilson to like come in and run like a traditional quarterback offense for whatever reason, whether we like it or not, whether we like the pizzazz. Hey, Russell Wilson outscored Patrick Mahomes last year. Like, let's not forget that. Like, he didn't just like completely totally die. He was actually kind of okay.

He was just kind of a meme at the same time, which is exactly what an I don't think he was kind of okay. He had a high touchdown rate, which really buoyed, I think, the perception of his season, where it felt like watching a lot of Brockos games was absolutely nothing is happening in the first half. It's three and out sack, three and out sack, three and out sack. Oh man, we're down by 20. Okay, we'll go into no huddle range and we're going to throw a couple touchdowns at the end. And oh, look, I got 20 fantasy points. We lost by six. That felt like every single Russell Wilson game that I watched last year. Like, just watching and I get, you know, maybe we've spent too much time learning ball and we haven't

we haven't consulted the EPA. Right. I haven't consulted the EPA. Watching Russell Wilson play, like he, he's always had certain deficiencies, which is that he can't really throw to the middle of the field

because he can't really see the middle of the field. And he used to have elite escapeability. He doesn't have that anymore. The Twitch is like totally gone. Not really a particularly athletic. Rush for 341 yards last year. Yeah, but that's a far cry from what he used to rush for back in the day.

And it's also a far. in terms of his sack abilities. Like a lot of the Russell Wilson plays that weren't even runs back in the day. It was like he was about to get sacked and then he runs around

and then he throws. And when you take away some of that juice, like he can still kind of navigate, but we're no longer seeing the Russ Wilson spin move elite. Oh yeah. Obviously. It's like 35.

Of Russell Wilson. And that's kind of what you need for his game because he's never just been a guy you can stand in the pocket, see the field, make the re. Like that's not really his game. It's running around, creating and throwing moon balls.

And the deep ball is still pretty. It's great to watch. It kind of sounds like you just described Justin Fields too. Yeah, it is. Like I don't, I'm not a field's guy. Like I don't,

you know, like I've literally made a bet against Fields on this program. I've never like outside of as a college prospect, basically since after his first year in the NFL, I've been one of the lower people on Justin Fields in most conversations. But I view these guys as basically the same, except Fields has more escapability. Like he's at least the guy who, when shit breaks down, which I think shit is going to break down with either one of these quarterbacks because I don't think they're very good.

And this team is starting Van Jefferson at wide receiver two. Like at least Justin Fields can just go make a play as an athlete in a way that Russell Wilson used to be able to, but kind of can't anymore. So I would easily still start fields. I think this Russell Wilson experience is going to go quite poorly for them personally, but we'll see how it goes. Yeah, I would just mostly echo that. Yeah, I don't think either of them bring anything particularly amazing to an offense.

I guess the takeaway for fantasy football-wise is Russell Wilson, four and a half rushing attempts per game the last two seasons. this year is at 9.2. So a slight volume boost potentially to the skill position players in the offense with less kind of being sucked out of it. So this is like a small boost for George Pickens. It helps Najee, I guess, not get vultured at the goal line as much. Potentially more checkdowns for Jalen Warren. So I think like you're feeling a little bit better about any Steelers, skill position players. but yeah

fantasy football wise like it yeah I guess it just kind of sucks we lose a QB1 per game yeah it's it's gonna hurt like his time his time to pressure is 13th in the league so like he's getting some time back there and I look maybe some of it is

there like Justin Fields still finds a way to take sacks in inopportune times this dude is the king of taking a sack at second and long and they're not gentleness He's getting rock. He gets rocked like Rogers did last night. And Rogers is an actual pylon. So maybe some of that.

I don't know what the reasoning is. To me, you play Justin Fields, you're winning games, the offense is cooking. Team plays for him. You play them. But again, I just want to touch on this was expected. Like all the tea leaves read that this was still happening. All that to say, first off, our bet can finally start now. Because I said Wilson will start more games barring injuries.

and clearly was an injury. So I'm not giving you the first six games. Oh, my goodness. Jesus Christ. Just want to reiterate that. I don't know about that. He was fully active last week. But they said when he's fully healthy, he's going to get to play.

And now all of a sudden, he's fully healthy. I'll be leaving that in Ryan's. Facts are facts. I'm not, I'm not, I'm, the bet starts now. We may need, we may need to go back over. the injury reports and litigate that one. But it's what they said.

It's what they said. When he's fully healthy, he'll start to get reps. And now he's fully healthy and he's starting to get reps. I'm just putting, I'm just taking the coach on his word. Anyway,

I just wanted to throw that out there. But let's talk about the fantasy implications just real quick because we got a long while to go with these tiers here coming up. Let's talk about the fantasy implications. I just saw Justin Field to go in the fifth round of the startup that I just finished a couple of weeks ago. Not a couple weeks ago.

this last week, I should say. Fifth round is steep price. Very steep price. What's the price now? Are we going out? I'm in a startup right now. He just been off the board five minutes ago. Okay.

Where to go? So, well, it's my annual triple derby draft that I host, which means that there are no 20, 24 rookies included in this. So they're separated out. We do vets only, 24 rookies only, and 25 rookies only in three separate drafts, with a big convoluted derby for all those picks get us on. But Fields just went at the 812 of the veteran draft.

I would guess that we would have seen probably 15 to 18 rookies by now if they were included. So you can basically say that it's like the mid-10th round for Justin Fields. So I was trying to trade up to get him and I was turned down. I was trying to get him at this price. Well, that's right around. Yeah, that's right around where we got him in the Scott Barrett, Danny Kelly, invitational, right? Like it's, so it's back to the preseason price.

I traded multiple seconds to go and get him. So are we buying? Are we selling? Obviously, we're not buying. I'm buying every single time that Justin Fields looks like he's not starting. That's what I buy Justin Fields. Okay, what for? Like I moved a couple of seconds in the off season to get him to hedge my bets.

Like, what are we spending now? Clearly you don't think Russ holds the job. No, well, I don't know. I struggle to make like confident predictions of what I like when I think a team is behaving irrationally, then I don't want to be like, well, I would not do this. So I don't think the team will do this. Like I think what they're doing is currently insane. So I don't know why I would then expect them to not keep doing insane things. Like it's not a real team that they're, they're playing Van Jefferson on like 90% of the route. This is a fake football team. So I don't

expect them to make real football team decisions. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, that's fair. Anyone else interested in going out and buying? What are you selling them for or buying them for, etc? I don't, it's kind of, it's a weird one, right? Just because I'm thinking of this from two perspectives. From the perspective of a contender, what are you going to give up to have a chance at QB1 production for an indeterminate amount of games maybe later in this season, right? I don't know. Like that's a career.

Oh. I don't know. I don't know if that's guaranteed. I don't want to do it. He's one of the best 32 quarterbacks in this league. Like I get, I get it. Like,

I understand. A lot of guys are one of the best 42 quarterbacks in this league that aren't starting. But he's, but he's one of the best 32 quarterbacks to this league. And he's young and he's physically gifted. Here's the problem. Here's the problem with that statement. We thought that going into the year, right?

When we, we look. A lot of us said that they're definitely going to trade Justin Fields. Some team is definitely going to want to have him. It took way longer than it should have. And all those reports came out that the league views him as a backup. And now he's getting sat with the four and two record with Russell Wilson. Wins aren't a QB stat in our eyes. For some reason, the NFL seems to think that matters.

So like, and now he's going back to the bench. So he's gifted, he's talented, whatever. But the NFL is looking at him like he's, I don't know, belongs in the last. I don't think Russ last more than a few games. I think Fields gets back in and probably keeps winning because the Steelers are just a Yeah, his name's T.J. Watt. Yeah, and Dave, I don't, I don't disagree with you that Fields is mid. I just think Russ is like unplayable.

That's fair. That's why I don't think it's reasonable. Like, I think Russ is like not one of the top 40 quarterbacks in the NFL. I don't. So it's not like I think Fields is good. I think Russ is like non-viable at this point. Like you'd play Joe Flacco over Russ Will. and if you're an NFL team, right?

Like, like, like, that's what, that's what I'm saying. Like there's, that's, that's about the value for, for Russ. He provides less than what Joe Flacco was. It was literally on his couch and. I mean, hey, Joe Flacco was a good example, though, of what I'm kind of worried about, right? Obviously, like the age style quarterback, all, all that's a lot different. But why did, why wasn't Joe Flacco given like a bridge QB contractor? why wasn't Joe Flacco immediately traded for by the dolphins or whatever, right?

Like there are so many situations where it's like, okay, this is clearly one of the best 32 quarterbacks. That's not enough to think a guy is going to play, right? Especially if we're trying to project forward into later seasons. Yeah. The downside comparison to me is less Blacko where like Flacco and Dalton, like it makes total sense to me why they are backups. because, like, yeah, they are probably in the top 32 quarterbacks.

Like, would a team rather take a shot on Will Levis or take a shot on Joe Flacco? Obviously, you'd rather take a shot on Will Levis and see if you have something, then start Joe Flacco. Your team isn't going anywhere if your quarterback is Joe Flacco. I'm glad the NFL doesn't do that shit anymore. They used to. Remember, like, Jake Dillone starting for the Cleveland Browns? Like, it's like, what are we trying to accomplish here? Kyle Orton started at all these different locations.

I'm glad we don't do that anymore in the NFL. The downside comparison to me for field. is James, where it's like, I think James is one of the best 32 in the NFL as well, but he is like one of the best 32 in the way that coaches fear most, right? So it's like once they've decided that a guy like that, where if the key, he actually does have the upside traits, but I think just had sort of assembled off a track record where they go like, okay, you're never going to put it all together. And then once you're at that stage, it's like now you're just off our radar because

not only do we not think you can be a franchise quarterback, even if you're going to be efficient, we don't want to deal with the turnovers, we don't want to deal with the bullshit, I want to keep my job. That's my fears if they think Fields is just proven that he's never going to put it all together, and he's evolved from the Richardson-Levis maybe tier

to the Jamis that's never going to happen and we don't want to deal with it tier. I think that's where he is, though, and I think that's where the NFL kind of told us he was in the off season and where the Steelers are telling us, that they still think he is even after he goes four and two, right? So what team is, what team is looking at this? Let's say, I don't know if it even matters if he plays more games this year.

Like let's just fast forward the hypothetical to next year. If this is the body of work for Justin Fields, I have no idea what his contract is off the top of my head, but he's a free agent, what team is going out and signing Justin Fields and saying that we're going to try this with him, right? It didn't seem like anyone was interested last year. Yeah. He's got to go somewhere that the project situation, maybe the quarterback class isn't as shiny and bright as maybe people have thought it would.

Like maybe he gets one of those opportunities, but it's like, I agree. Like he's, he's gotten, there's more risk if you're trading for him in Dynasty now of him just being a career, what if backup than he is as a longtime viable starter in the league, which is why I like what Spencer says.

Also shout out Spencer. Love every time you come in here. A single two for Fields feels like a buy much more is risky. I agree. I took that risk with two seconds and I'm looking at a potential career backup. Joe Schmo's 25. I've been saying that, but there's like always someone that someone falls in love with.

We're going to do like a 2025 rookie class, by the way, show like an early one later in the year. You're going to want to stick in with that. But yeah. Do you potentially move off of Sam Darnel to go get Justin Fields? No. No.

I would know. I think Sam Darnel is a better shot to get. getting a contract to be a starter. I think San Diego does. 85 to 90% chance to be a week one starter next year. Yeah. Not Minnesota though. Missed me with that.

No. I agree with you on that. I don't think he's going to be starting Minnesota. I do think, though, like we're getting the Baker Gino somewhere in between that level of contract, somewhere else next year. And then the question is just do you, I don't know. I think with Sam Darrell with easy,

you ride the points all year. He's going to be a low end QB1. it's pretty north for the rest of this year. And then you wait and see in the off season, where does he sign? What do you think of the fit? Where does his value go? Because his value is just,

it's going to be a spot where even if everybody tells you, I think he's going to sign somewhere. Still the day he signed somewhere, the value's going to go up because people are going to be no longer fearful. And then you just decide whether you want to ride or whether you want to sell. But I think you just, that's an asset you don't trade away until March to me, unless someone gives it. Fair enough.

I will say a PSA out there. If you have Sam Darnold, stop trying to sell him to rebuilding teams for a 2025 first. Just knock that crap out. I'm so tired of opening up my sleeper app and seeing at least three trades like that every single day. Please stop it. Like, I can't hit decline enough times whenever that keeps popping up. There's a reason I only have one quarterback, all right? Yeah.

just is what it is. I try and sell me another one for what's going to be the 101. Like I just know. While we're here on the topic, because we definitely need to add another topic to this program, but while we're here, I have seen the like, oh, J.J. McCarthy is getting Wally Pipped already. And because, you know, look what happened with Purdy in San Francisco. You're not getting darned on a rookie contract if he re-signs in Minnesota, which is why that's not happening.

You know where I want to see Sam Donald go? Honest to God is L.A. Put him with McVeigh in like the same style of system and I think he can be very good. Donald signing a contract next year needs to go to one of those systems

because clearly that's what's unlocked whatever ability he's had. Though in the second half of the both the last, wow, both of his last two games, because I can speak, he's looked like old Donald in a lot of those. Not just the second half last week.

He looked like dog. shit last week. I'm talking a lot. Last week you play. He was not beating the scam. He was Sam Darnold for the first four weeks. They're giving us to Jets. He was fully scammed Arnold.

Right. But I still think that is more opportunity for him to be a starter than like Fields will. Again, whether we think it's rational or not, I think the NFL is telling us, which means at some point, we should be telling our dynasty teams what to expect. So I like what Spencer said there. Last break, we're going to do the entire. higher tier portion of this with no breaks.

This is the bonus part and a shout out to all you guys for sticking with us. We'll be right back. Look, we just need to give a public service announcement when we do this tier portion of the program. We have fun here and you should too. See, we make jokes and we probably don't watch enough film. but we have running gags. We make statements we find hilarious, at least I do. And before you type into the comment section to hashtag watch the game,

watch the film, or how am I supposed to know about running jokes? You're not. But the people that tune into this week every single week get that there is a joke being made. We do not take it that seriously, and you should not either. from the entire Dynasty Points crew. With that being said, what we have in front of us is multiple tiers. Lucas is manning the board. Let's dive right in.

Purdy top five dynasty quarterback. We're not going to, we don't even have enough airspace right now to get into that argument. That will end friendships. Let's just put it that way. It'll end friendships if we have that conversation right now. Look, I have been called annoying. I have been called over exaggerating. I've been accused of all of those things, and I shall not deny it.

However, people love these tier lists and we're going to give it to you. We do not do these often. So to see this on our program is a rarity, but we do it for all of you. And Sean Jefferson says there's no birthday tiebreaker this week. I forgot about that. I really liked having that ability. Chat, you are the tiebreaker. if anyone wasn't here last week and you're just tuning in now for this

this is how it goes we're going to nominate players to go into these tiers now i don't know if you want to rename these tiers i don't know if we kind of want to rename these to kind of fit like or if we like just like the s a b c d and e whatever we renamed them last but yeah so we're we're just going to go with this uh so we nominate players to jacob or Jacob's going to nominate players however we want to do it again. Jacob, you're going to run the lead on this again. And we will either agree or disagree

if somebody should or should not be in this list and why. And again, just so everyone knows, we have fun here and you should too. Let's begin. We haven't. We don't learn enough ball. Okay.

Yeah, we really got to learn ball now that we're professionals. I'm going to rock this to say, same way as last time, which is basically I'm going to start off by simply listing who I think are some consensus options for each tier. And then we will do a quick up-down vote on slotting them in. And then we'll go around the horn. Anybody who wants to submit further names for consideration and we can discuss those one by one. So I think the clear three names that I think we got to at least discuss for this tier would be

Bejan Robinson, Breeze Hall, and Jemir Gibbs. What are everyone's thoughts on these three guys? If any of them should not be included in this top tier. I think Ken Walker belongs in that tier. Okay. So we got Ken Walker submitted.

Anybody else got any... And I think he should be in there above Jemir Gibbs. Okay. I think... So I'll say my ranks. Go for it. I was going to If we're going to talk about Walker, I think we should talk about HN, do. Okay, so let's just put them all up there for now and then we can drag, just so we know who to talk about it, and then we can always drag one down later.

So put Walker up there, put HN up there, and then we will consider dragging anyone down. Anyone else worthy of consideration here for this tier? I don't think so. And I feel like this is a very big S tier. Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest. My rankings, I have one running, I have Bijon in his own tier still. And then I have Paul, Gibbs, Walker, and H.N all in the same tier. So, yeah, basically, I mean, the tough part here for any of these guys is that there's no one, no one's perfect right now.

You know, one of the funny things that I've noticed all with the Gibbs stuff is like the amount of people, this is, I had a grade 12 math teacher who always told me that happy this is a function of expectation. happiness is never more a more functional expectation than with Jemir Gibbs because the amount of people who complain about Bruce Hall and Bijon Robinson losing work with Tyler Algier

and Braylon Allen and then be like, that's why I prefer Jemir Gibbs who's actually a backup running back. It's like it's always hilarious to me. Like the Gibbs people are the first in line to be like, ah, you can't draft Brees Hall

he's giving him like the Braylon Allen. It's like the next time Jimir Gibbs is the first running back to touch the field when David Montgomery is healthy, will be the first. So it fascinates me. But yeah, I think Walker,

what's Walker's age compared to these other guys? 23? Is that it? I believe so. He was 20. I know he was 23 to open the year. He is only 24 is what I have. He would have turned 24 this year.

24 and 5 days. Okay. Yeah. So he's going to be 24. Bejohn is what? 20 he's 22 now or 22 yeah I'll just I'll just say it's John 22

Hall is 23 Gibbs 22 HN 23 Walker 24 and however many days yeah I mean Walker Walker probably belongs here because he's if I was to pick one rest of season that's one it's Walker

yeah easy to me easily and I was way wrong on Walker I passed on him I watched him go in the seventh round this off season and I'm kicking myself. I remember texting boss man John Hansen and asking him, can you walk me through your ranking on Walker? Because he had him

Dynasty RB4. And I was like, I'm having a hard time ranking this dude like 10. Like can you walk me through it? And you know what his answer was? And John Hanson's only his ability to put a certain way with words goes

he's 23 and who the hell else am I going to put there? and I was like, fair, all right? I get it, got it, good. Walker's whole thing was the past catching work. Will he ever get it? Will he ever get it?

We know he can force mistackles. He does it at an elite rate. He has 18 mistackles force, and he missed a couple games with an injury. And in this offense, this dude is now getting the target share, 15.4% last week, 20% in week 5, 8.9 in week 4 and 12% in week 1.

He's a 13%. 14.9% team target share on the season. This is wet dream. Believe eight receptions just last week. And I don't think that role is going anywhere. So they clearly like him. They talked about workhorse, Ken Walker. He's literally got the role.

We want Bejohn to have that Breeze has shown he can have, that everyone wants Jamir to have. And A-Chane. He's getting the groundwork and the air work, all of the inside the five work. I mean, he's just turning 24. there's a good chance we get multiple elite seasons out of him, and he's good. I mean, I like Ken Walker, but I think he truly belongs here.

I can hear a call for the A tier simply because he's 24, but I'm not leaning that heavily into the ages. If you're telling me he's not turning 25 till this point next season, I don't think the ageism needs to come into effect here. He's elite. I don't see him not being elite here in the next two years. Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. I mean, the issue was always the path patching,

and then the issue two was like semi- the rushing consistency, not really because I care about it because coaches sometimes care about that kind of stuff. But like, it doesn't seem like this staff cares. Lucas, zoom in on the board. I've always been a little bit. Go ahead. Oh, right. He was saying zoom in.

I was like, I'm pretty close. He thought I was controlling the screen. Yeah, like, I've never been that in on him in Dynasty because of the past catching stuff. But then like the, the team, you know, came out and they kept saying. We want to use him here. And it's like, all right, it's a new staff. And it kind of reminds me of the Nico Collins bet last year where it was like, if the price was different, I probably would have been priced out.

But the price in best ball all year was like a six-round pick. And I was like, well, he's probably worth that if he's just getting like 70% of the rushing and boom-buss and never gets any pass-catching. And maybe the coaching staff isn't lying to us. So sure, I'll draft 20% Walker in best fall. Sounds fine to me. And then turns out, you know, the bet like his hit and the biggest way you could possibly imagine. So I think he belongs here.

I do. I think, you know, brief Bejohn clearly, I do think if you're going to extend this out to include all these guys that Gibbs belongs from the standpoint of, like, I know he only gets half the work, but you always have to look at running back production. People like obsess, I think, way too much about the share of running back production and don't look at just the actual raw high value touches. And the lions produce more high value touches. touches for their running backs than any other team by an absolute mile. They run this offense with the running back position.

They run the ball constantly. They throw to gives with intent. I think that he has to be in this. And he's also just a truly terrific player in an elite, elite, elite running back situation with the offensive line and the scheme. Achan is the tricky one because it's just this constant thing with Achan where every time that, you know, things are going well. You're like, oh, my God.

He's like, got to be the dynasty RB1. overall with a bullet, like he's talented and he gets all this passive work and it's incredible. And then there's always something that happens that makes you afraid. You know, in this case, it's been the two injury. It's often his own injuries. I think he does belong here because the upside is so high and we've extended this out to involve all of, like none of these running backs are like the Christian McCaffrey level workforce, right? I think that workhorse level is dead.

I've talked about that for a while. So I think, I think all five here. And I've seen people bring up Ashton Genentee. Ashty if you're playing Devi is number one tier of his own, I think, in most Devi leagues right now. I want to talk about him at some point and my belief on him and how it's projected. But I think it's an overall conversation we need to have about running backs that I want to have at some point because I'm starting to have a very, for how often I get mocked for it, maybe outside of the box view of dynasty running backs. but we will talk about it. Toronto Day wants to know

is JT too old for the S tier. I would say yes and I have other concerns. We'll talk about that. There was another comment. Joanna wants to know, does age really matter for ranking dynasty RBs? They seem like they should be valued year to year, in my opinion. I think it does as a great separator, right?

Taking clock on running backs, it exists. I mean, Ryan has done extensive work on this. If you play by the age curve, more often than not, you're going to come out ahead. is one of the things I took from it and I've been playing by that. So I think it does, I think it does matter.

I think it matters for top tier guys. So for this tier we're going to talk about and then probably the next tier we're going to talk about. I'm going to care about age. After that, they're all year to year bets, man. That's how I would be able to. Yeah.

And I mean, you have to take value into account, right? Because the issue is like all these other running backs that are a little old. older, it's not like I'm anticipating the fall off at any particular point in time. It's just that when it hits, then they just become totally dead assets. And there's like a firm cap on how much you're willing to spend on that asset. And it's honestly a totally reasonable position.

If you just say like, as much as I'm willing to spend on Seqod Barkley right now, as much as I'm willing to spend on any running back right now. And so I'm just not going to pay up for any of these five guys. I'm not even really recommending going out and buying these five guys. necessarily in your dynasty leagues. But if we're just ranking purely who should be highest, I think that these would be the guys where you could make a plausible case

to spend a little bit more over that cap for. Yeah, I could agree with that. I'm not going to fight against Jemir Gibbs too hard here. I personally have him a tier lower, but that is what it is. And then with A-chan, I feel like he could belong here, but I think he holds. hold, he's clearly the one that holds the most risk, right?

Like we've, we've seen it now, like injuries, multiple seasons. His quarterback goes down, like, team dies. Obviously, that's not his fault, but he is susceptible to susceptible, susceptible, susceptible? I don't know. I don't do English very well. But he definitely has the most, like, risk it for the biscuit appeal in this tier group. But I agree, talent and his points when obviously everything is, is, is,

all G is next and unlike Jacob said, potential RB one every season. If I was just going to say this, Pistol Petch says, Derek Henry will be S tier 20 years from now because age fears him. It's so good. Yeah, if age didn't matter,

Derek Henry would be in this S tier. I mean, let's be real. But age does matter in terms of doing this. And I mean, ask any fantasy manager if you're trying to sell them a 30-year-old running back named Derek Henry. If you think you're getting two first forum, you're out of your mind. And also Bindles, I find this offensive.

Tom speaks Canadian, not English. I'm not from Nova Scotia. That would be broken Canadian, if you would. And I'm not that East Coast. So we're not going to go there. Let's talk about the A tier, Jacob. Let's do the nominating. Let's see how it goes.

All right. So Taylor and Barclay stand out immediately. Kyron Williams I'm trying to think of who else well let's start with that who else has names we can go

Jonathan Brooks okay oh Christian McCaffrey Christian McCaffrey we don't have to keep all these guys here we're going to nominate guys I'll just go down let's put Brooks

yeah I'll say a few more names, not that I'm necessarily to defend these super hard, but like James Cook, I think is maybe worth discussing. I don't know where anyone's at on Isaiah Pacheco, but maybe that's

a conversation. I'm not going to... I'm pro-free speech. Alfredo says Pacheco. Yeah. It won't be Tony Pollard. We're not going to get to Tony Pollard in this tier. I don't think we need to

do we need to have the ETN discussion or is that he's not going in this year it's later yeah i already i already see like half the fucking names on this list i don't want this tier i don't want this tier i don't know anymore yeah my head i'm just trying to feel out jacob if he's going to pull a jaden read on us like i actually think travis et n should be in the s tier that would have been his eight two years ago but i think he's finally settled on et n with the rest of us i mean i already want i already want half these names chopped off i don't want any i agree i agree yeah i agree I agree, yeah. Okay.

Yeah, I mean, I want, I want, I want, I want, I want, I want, I want, I want Coacho and Robes in the fuck out of here. Yeah, gone. Yeah, gone. Gone. Gone. I agree. For those.

Lucas and Ryan, do you guys want to Kate for any of those three? I think probably cooks the closest out of those three. But, yeah, I would also argue that I don't know if I'm putting Brooks in the A tier right now. Like, he was a fine prospect. Not either. But, yeah, he's not like any, like, he's not the same. level of prospect that Bijon was coming out and he is still coming off the ACL. He should have good workload coming back potentially.

But yeah, I wouldn't put him in the A tier two with all of these other proven performance. I'm with you. I wouldn't have Brooks there either. So to me, go for it. I can make a Brooks argument if we want. Yeah, let's hear it. So the Brooks argument I'm going to make, I'm not going to litigate how like elite or just good and okay of a

prospect he was. I would just say in terms of how I think we're going to be talking about Jonathan Brooks at the end of this season, I think it's going to be very clear. Yeah. So I think he's ever going to be the starting running back for the Panthers this year. Yes, I do. And there's a couple of reasons for that. I think we get very, especially in season, I think we get very in the moment with how a running back is playing, how many fantasy points. he scored the last few weeks or what have you, right? Juva Hubbard right now, to me, is playing fine. He's doing what he should be in this office.

He's playing good. He's playing. He's playing, yeah, he's playing well. He's doing what he should be in this offense. One of the 10 best running backs in the NFL, I think. See, I wouldn't go that far. He's like top five in the league in yards for carry and all that, yards before contact, all that stuff's great.

We know that Dave can. Alice kind of RV1 Belkow role. It is awesome. It's major shot white. Or the league in RYOE over attempt. He's first in the league in percentage of rushes over expectation. Okay. So I will say, I will say this.

And not that we need to litigate like how good of a job RYOE or any of those stats do. Certainly not perfect. Expectation or anything. I will say in the stats I like to look at that I think do a decent job of what, what's he creating on his own, like the mistackles force, the yards after contact. That stuff's kind of ugly right now. I will be honest.

He like bottom six in both of those, I believe. So I don't think Chuba Hubbard, I think Chuba Hubbard is a good enough running back to hit his holes, kind of run behind his line, what's blocked for him. I think that's a running back where as soon as you run into a couple difficult matchups where the rushing efficiency just isn't really there. or he fumbles or Jonathan Brooks rips off a couple of big plays behind the same exact offensive line in this same situation. That's the type.

I think Chuba Hover is the type of running back that can just be overtaken in that way, right? I understand like the vibes are great on him right now. And not just our perceptions, but like the fan basis perceptions, the coaching staff's perceptions can shift on a dime, right? Like we're talking about all of a sudden after this week, Chase Brown is like the Bell Cow in Cincinnati now or whatever, right? There's several other examples where just our perceptions of these backfields shift a lot from week to week in the NFL.

I think to get so caught up right now in Chuba Hubbard is like the Bell Cow and he's just going to keep playing like this all season and not like nothing's going to happen or Brooks isn't going to give any reason for that to change. I just don't believe that. So I would have Brooks at some point. I mean, I think Brooks is the starter next year, to be clear. But like they've said Brooks is realistic return date right now as week nine.

I think you would agree that at least to start out, the most likely scenario is that he played the Sanders role behind Hubbard for a few weeks, right? Is that reasonable? Yeah, no, agreed. And then, and then so I think like at best, he looks great. Hubbard slows down a little bit. And so then you get Brooks kind of being, maybe getting it to an even time chair by like week 11, 12 at best. And then he's like the clear starter at best, like what, 14, 15?

Like, there's not a lot of runway. Like that's my issue with it. It's like, so so then the issue is like what, what then does it look like next year? And I guess the other issue too is like how much you believe in the prospect I think is ultimately what it comes down to? because how much he helps you this year is kind of a little bit of material. If you think he's, if you think he's going to hit in a big way next year, and if you think that Chuba Hubbard is not that great.

And I kind of, I agree. I think he's playing better than he is right now. I think I'm like a bit of a Chuba truther. I think he was underappreciated coming into like last year, especially where I was like, why do they need to go and sign a worse running back than him with Miles Sanders? And if I was running the Carolina Panthers this year, I would not have spent my round two pick on a running back.

I would have just let Chuba Hubbard be perfectly capable for my sad, shitty team. But they did spend that. I assume Chuba probably gets a shot to start somewhere else next year or at least be a 1A. And then Brooks hopefully gets to take over next year. I just am I so optimistic on him as a prospect that I'm willing to take him and put him in the same tier as guys who I think are going to score a fuck ton of points now in exchange for future gains. and that's where I'm 50-50 on. I mean, I'll say this on him as a prospect and people will rightfully yell at me

about watch the film, bro. But his numbers, his final season of college was pretty much just all of the Bijan Robinson numbers, right? Except with a bit more receiving, right? So I'm not saying that he's Bijan Robinson or he's on that level as a prospect. And obviously, we don't, from a statistical process, standpoint, we don't like, we don't love the one year wonder running backs. But I think you can tell

yourself a story enough there where it, would it be that shocking if Jonathan Brooks is on in the NFL looks on the level of like a Reese Hall of a Kenneth Walker of how we're talking about him right now? I don't know he runs physically enough. But I also think that he's like, I think he's like a much better Truba Hubbard, which is probably pretty good because actual Trubbard looks great right now in the context of this offense. Like I think he's going to fit what they do well. This run blocking unit is legit. They spent up on interior offensive line play this off season and had a lot of success. My comps for Brooks coming out was like Tony Pollard, Median and Aaron Jones Apex and Chuba Hubbard like bottom basically, where I think where he excels is in his very,

vision, I think he's going to be a guy who's going to rack up yards before contact. I think he runs a little upright. I don't think he has like the physicality to be a true all around rusher in the way that like a Jonathan Taylor or a Bijon Robinson can just stick it up in there. And I don't know that Bruce Hall actually runs all that physically. But so maybe that's maybe that's a really optimistic comparison. But I so I don't think he's going to be like a best of the league type of guy. but I think you can be a very good runner. And with how good their offensive line is, I would say if you're running behind that kind of offensive line,

I probably value the vision, the explosiveness a little bit more, like Spence is saying right now, than I do the David Montgomery, like, can I break 18 tackles type stuff? Because there's going to be holes there, and it's just can you diagnose it, can you pop through it? I think Brooks can do all that stuff. So just to move off of Jonathan Brooks here, with Tom currently in disconcels,

I'll just say that. I think we vote on it. Who has Brooks and B tier. I mean, that's where I have him right now. I think he's an A tier guy. I know where, Ryan, you have him. I know you have him in A tier.

Jacob. It sounds like I'm trying to convert him. You can try to convert him back if you like. I realized halfway through that like if Chuba, like Chuba is like basically just in mid-R-Ber- one right now. And I realize like quibbling about whether Chuba's the RB1 or the RB2 in week 15 is kind of losing the forest for the trees

because if Chuba is going to look this good in this situation, yeah, before they even have a good quarterback, then I probably want a piece of the guy who's going to have that situation in 2025. So I'll put Brooks in this tier with Ryan. Right. Fair enough. All right.

I think cook for sure. I like in the B tier. I'm fine with Checo. There, I guess. I don't think they're going to find another solution at running back is the thing. Yeah. Someone, can someone sell me on

Brian Robinson Jr.? Actually, let's just add more names first and then we can come back to these other guys here. Can you scroll down? All right. So I think David Montgomery has got to be in this discussion. I think Derek Henry has to be in this discussion.

He's scoring a million points right now. Speaking of scoring a million points right now, I think Mara has got in discussion. Pollard, probably if we're putting James Connor in there, then I think Pollard's got to be at least in this consideration. Anyone want to make a case for like a Bigsby or a Braylon or Irving or someone like that into this mix? I don't know that I want to do that, but throwing it out there.

Nope. I want to make the Josh Jacobs case. No, definitely not going to get that for me. The chat saying Ramondre, I'm not going to get behind that, but anyone else want to get behind that? I already want to knock some people down, so that's why I'm. I know what you think about Trey Benson too.

I don't, like I'm, and I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I don't, maybe that's like a discussion the average player might have right now. I don't know where the temperature's at on Trey Benson, actually. I could be wrong. He looked the best. He's like all this year. Yeah, I still don't think he's... Sorry, all years is here.

But yeah. I think that this is pretty good, especially because we're already talking about potentially, like, moving some folks down. Yeah. All right. I think we're good for now. Let's do...

I would move personally. My version of this tier would be just Cook, Cacheco, Henry, Camara, stop. think maybe even just Henry but what do you guys think about these kind of other guys uh I'll say Brian Robinson I like I think he's fine as like a real life NFL player um I think it's gonna be

fun to play him in DFS in any game that Austin Echler misses like I'm down for all that stuff love the best ball yeah love the best ball bags uh yeah I just don't see the, I don't see the, like, the ceiling with him in terms of like, when is Brian Robinson going to come into a season, like, projecting as even a top 16 running back, that just feels not, not likely to me for his career. So I think that's, I think you either have to be doing that or it's very likely you're going to do that in the future to be in this tier. So I'd take him out of there. That's my fear. It's like, I would probably. pay on certain teams, I would pay a early two just for the rest of this season from Henry and

Camara. Like, I don't think Brian Robinson is capable of ever having a single season. I would pay a two for. So, like, if you're paying a two for Brian Robinson, I feel like it's more like you're probably going to get like four seasons you'd pay a three for. Yeah. That's kind of why I feel about Brian Robinson. But, like, I don't know if I can. care about that. Like I just don't, I don't, I don't, I think Brian Robinson is going to have a lot of season scoring like 13 points per game, which I love him for, for, for, for, for best. Also, for people in the chat, this is a dynasty tier list of running backs, to be clear, dynasty tiers running backs is not rest of season tiers. The show is called dynasty points. You'll like tears just so you know, um,

people are asking. Um, that would be my case for moving Robinson down. I just don't like, I need to have serious fomo on i would rather have a shorter window i think this i think the rest of this derrick henry season is going to be more valuable than brian robinson's entire career in value of replacement my my estimation we're fully aligned are you going to make the case here lucas sir yeah i was sorry it's just saying tom back on that that is a really interesting take about uh derrick henry's like value over replacement for the rest of the season compared to like what brian robinson could be giving you i just know that that like last year we saw an elite stretch where he was a top five running back and he has

performed at that level we have seen really good games already this season yes he's a little bit banged up right now and yeah awesome neckler's taking a little bit of that workload plus now we have to worry about jane daniels sniping some touchdowns from him completely understand all of that but like whenever i look at him i'm seeing like the james connor type of of career arc and I think on the high side like we might get up into the David Montgomery space which I think that Jacob you didn't mention him whenever you were talking about your B tier running backs. I don't know if he is right now but I do think though that like he's going to have good longevity. I think that he's going to be extremely consistent and he's somebody who's going to be valuable for your

team for you know next at least three years and then you don't have to worry about that RB position. and if you can be gaining him at a reasonable cost maybe it's just like the value at cost that might be pushing him up a little bit more for me but yeah like you all are outlining some good points I even talk myself out of it a little bit as I was going into it but a lot of it is like the actual cost to acquire him and then what he's going to be giving you consistently

to where you don't have to worry about that position I feel like I just never worry there's a lot of Brian Robinson content that position I think it's about time I'm voting C, but I appreciate the case, Lucas. Tom. I lost all power. Like, the whole block went down.

So first, apologize to everybody. I don't lose power on this program. I'm the rock on this program, generally speaking, in terms of people dropping out. So apologies. Welcome back. How many subs to the game while I was gone? We got fully through the A tier.

We settle on the five names that you see. I disagree. The B tier is not settled. The B tier is not settled at all. All we have, all we've confirmed so far as Cook and Pacheco, we're currently debating Brian Robinson between B and C. I would like,

I would like to argue that Chris McCaffrey, potentially not in the A tier once as two worn out Achilles comes back, but we'll save it. We'll save it. My argument is if Christian McCaffrey plays one more season of football, that is worthy of the A tier all on its own. Like, sure, sure.

He scores like 24 points in a running back environment. Telling that dude is impossible. Look at all the eight. Look at all the S tier running backs. They're going to score like, like, I agree. None of those that's tier running backs are projecting for 20 points per game like anytime soon. And Christian McAfric could score 25. I totally agree.

In the podcast, League of Record, trying to sell Chris McCaffrey is like pulling teeth. I can't do it. So I'm just, I'm just saying like, you can get, like, you can get, a late one for him like all I'm getting right now is late ones so like it's just one of those things where is that value really more than a late one make his like a tier I don't know um I'm just saying that's my bull case for him to potentially not be there we'll see the next rb tier show that we do I understand that if you have him he's probably dying on your roster just saying borderline for me all right that's the last thing I'm going to say at the eight tier as I was gone for however long

that was. Again, really sorry about that. Let's talk about the B tier. Get Brian Robinson out of the B tier. All right. That's our third vote. I lost. This dude out of the B tier. Okay. Get him out. Fine player. I don't want him in there either personally. Fine player.

And he get you like 13 points per game. Super dope. Done. Get him out. James Connor. Get him out. 15.5 right now. Yeah. Yeah. James. My B tier. I already said my B tier is three players. James Cook, Isaiah Pachecoe, Derek Henry. I'm again, I'm a vote against all these other dudes.

Get Pacheco out of there. Get Pacheco. I'm a little for Pachecchio. If he didn't hurt his leg, I'd agree. but I think they addressed a position in this insanely stacked draft. I don't like him in there. I get Henry out of there. Get Henry out.

30-year-old running back. I don't think he belongs in that tier. Like, we're something about dynasty value, right? We're talking about dynasty value, like in a whole. We're not just talking about ashtag is player good. How I value them and how you value them and how Ryan values them and how Lucas values them. Yeah, so if I'm, it's one of those things where if I'm buying Derek Henry, I want him to be the tier below. But if I'm selling Derek Henry, he's in the B.

So it's like. But how do you value him? You're in a startup right now. You get them that includes the season. Like, how do you personally value? I'm not touching. I'm not touching them before like the ninth round. He's still 30.

I can't do it. I mean, I'm not touching it. So ninth round. We have to rank them. I know, but you're asking how I value them in terms of a startup. Look. All right. Fair enough.

Yeah. but I'm not, I don't know if I value it. That's fair. I'm not going to fight too hard. I'm not going to fight too hard, but I just, like, also, I don't think Tony Pollard belongs here either. No. We haven't even gotten him yet.

We're just trying to. Oh, okay, okay, okay. I think Pollard and E.TN are easy exclusions for me. Yeah, I would put, for either of them. ATN should go down. Um, I don't want Monty in here either.

Monty. See, I like Monty over there. I think all the same things about Monty as we just kind of said about Brian Robinson. Same role as Brian Robinson. He's just older. It's like he gets he gets, carries, and that's great. And he gets touchdowns. That's great. He never gets any targets. He's been running hot on touchdowns right now, but he's not going to have 20 touchdowns this year. And it's, it's like if he doesn't score, he gets eight points. And then if he scores, he gets 14 points. And if he scores twice, he gets 20 points. That's every week. And it'll probably

work out to average 14 points per game. And that's good. But he's 27. To me, like, to me, this B-tier, is either guys who I think are going to average like 15 points per game for multiple seasons, which to me is cooking Pacheco, or it's they're averaging 20 points per game right now. And that's Henry. I just don't really buy the Camara shit because I think he's so bad. But it's fine. He's doing it. Does it matter?

He's going to continue to do it, though, is the problem. He might actually get a thousand out rushing. So I, like, if I'm buying one of the two old running backs, to me, it's Henry. but I get putting them beside each other. They're both, look, they're both highly priced at this point. So I kind of value them the same. I kind of agree. I could move Montgomery down, but I would have a hard time moving Montgomery down

keeping Pacheco because I would trade Pacheco from Montgomery straight up. See, I mean. So, yeah, disagree. Okay, that's fair. You're allowed to. How many times? How many times have we said before, before literally last night, I would have argued so hard for James,

to go an A tier. Yeah, I agree. But last night, like, moved me. Hey, I could, hey, let me tell you, on this podcast, I was the highest on Ray Davis. When I tell you, the victory lap around this house was borderline pants off, I'm not lying. Now, do I think my, like, insanely for Lull's statement that he's better than James Cook? No, but he's a legitimate threat to James Cook. Yeah.

I mean, they should be East Coast Monty Gibbs. that should be the bill's back deal spencer wants you to make a pick before uh davin and akash go to bed but you should get in there and do david akash stole my two picks so i'm going to hold the entire draft ransom because i wanted one of warren or spears and you now you need to trade down those two picked beside me they decided to fucking pick beside me in a derby and they sent me every single long turn and i'm sick and tired of it so everybody else this draft can suffer as a result i made one of my two turn picks i'm not going to make the other one and everyone else can be mad about it because

they ruin my night. Hey, chat, can I just get a kid? How more like structured and fluent was this show while I was gone? Just leave that in the chat form because I feel like it probably flowed better when I wasn't here taking things off the rails. The problem is probably me.

I just argued about Jonathan Brooks for like 20 minutes. I also don't think Brooks. I did. I don't think Brooks should be in the A tier, but that's just me. Yeah, I lost that one. He wasn't going to make it and Ryan convinced me. I've never changed my mind on anything, but Ryan changed my mind on the number. I changed Scott Barry.

You're saying I've never changed your mind, Jacob, in our entire friendship. I was being hyperbolic. I better have been. That would have hurt my feelings deep down. Let's get Montgomery out of the B tier. Agreed. I'll subside there. Are we settled now?

So I think Jacob has pulled me to his way of thinking where I think ideally I have like a B and like a B and a half tier or whatever, where it is just Cook and Pacheco. Because, yeah, realistically, am I paying more for James Cook? Am I paying more for Pacheco? Would I add on to Henry or Camara for the other two? Yes. We're doing an exercise. That's fine.

Yeah, but it's fine. That's why I go to my actual rankings, it's different than wide receivers where, like, there's just way more wide receivers. If I go to my actual rankings, these four tiers are like six or seven tiers. Yeah. same we're doing we're doing an exercise so and for the people we were again we're here to have fun yeah this is what we're doing let's so i'm not even can let's we can discuss but now we've got to leave the seat here but let's at least add some more names remandre or fire off a bunch remandre

yeah joe mixin mixin's i one i haven't even thought of yeah i mean i don't i don't i don't see how you can put mixon in a tier below connor and pauler those three no connor trust me we're going to get to Connor in a minute. I think the wheels are. Mixen and Pollard should be side by side smiling at each other, in my opinion. They're the same age. They both look similarly projected

from a longevity perspective. They're both scoring similarly. Then this is where I would start putting in some of the younger guys. Keith has a great point here. Jacobs would be a guy. I think, again, he's like kind of mixing to me. I'm like the mixing bowl.

But the mixing workload's been kind of incredible in the two of all the games we've seen from like very clearly a step above like a Pollard or above like the Jacobs like this is an offense that sorry go ahead get Aaron Jones out of there go for mixing out get Aaron Jones out there this is an offense where we've been complaining about why like why does Slovak run it so much on first down what they don't even rank that highly in any of the run rate stuff it just feels like it I I think they love feeding Joe Mixon. That's just kind of the vibe I get.

And it's what all the stats say, he like 20 expected fantasy points per game. It looks unreal too. Like this is an offense where he can fall into the end zone twice per game. But yeah, I don't put him up in the V-T error or anything, but I think he's very clearly above like. He's the number one.

Tony Pollard projectable points. I agree. I would take Nixon is the number one in the C tier, in my opinion. He's number one in the C tier. And I think Josh Jacobs deserves a higher, like a little bit. I think Josh Jacobs deserves to be number two in this tier. Like obviously we can't move them around. You're not at the time to be ranking within.

I know. I'm just saying, someone asked in the chat, what about Josh Jacobs? So I'm addressing this here. It's not for no reason. Slitty wants to know Josh Jacobs question mark. He's the highest in this tier for me. I want James Cook down a tier. I want him down a tier.

I certainly do not. James Cook or James Connor? Connor. You said Cook. Oh, you said Cook. I'm fine with Connor down in here. Look, I'm trying to get caught up to speak here. They're the same idea where they're a little, they're even older than the other old guys.

They're both currently injured. I think I've got to have a discussion about some of these young guys. So, and I'm talking about Bucky, Tank, Braylin, and Tracy. and Chase Brown. Those five names. Can I hold on, hold on. Are we just done? Are we just done?

Oh, never mind. Never mind. Never mind. I see what you're doing. And then the other name that I think, I don't think I would put in the James Connor Aaron Jones here, but I think it's worth discussing would be J.K. Dobbins. Look, I'll tell you, I think I'd rather have the upside of J.K. Dobbins over Brian

Robinson. I would move Brian Robinson down a tier. Now I'm going to go. Okay. No. I'm going to middle the Brian Robinson. No. Somebody who's going to average like 15 fantasy points a game for the next two and a half seasons.

Do we know that? That's why he's averaging right now. He was averaging more over his healthy stretch last season. He has scored five touchdowns to do that and he's not getting any past game work. I just like... I will just add to this discussion that this is obviously not true of either of their bodies, but these guys are technically the same age. Both of them are 25 years old.

J.K. Davenzons feels older than that. Well, yeah, because J.K. Dobbins is like, but like J.K. Dobbins in this offense is insane. And he's getting the past game work. But like he doesn't project meaningfully. So I guess the thing with Dobbins is like, how much do you think about his post-20204, like this Achilles? And yeah, I guess I'm more bullish on that than I would be on like Connor and Jones. So I'm good with Dobbins in this tier. I think I'm personally good with everyone that's in this C tier staying in this tier.

I don't know about anybody else if you have issues with any of these guys. And I mean, no one's going to agree with me, so it's fine. But I would also put Warren and Spears in there. But I know that. Except for a caution, David, who snite me on them in back to life. Did you say Warren and Harris or no? I don't care about Naji Harris at all. Okay.

Oh, the other name did, the other name that like I wouldn't put it in here, The market should probably consider putting in C. I mean, he's been like the RB one the last three weeks. DeAndre Swift. Not dead, it turns out, Tom. Yeah, you're still not selling them for like significant. He's still kind of a dynasty's level, in my opinion. I've been selling DeAndre Swift shares.

What about Blake Corum and trade Benson here? I think they're a step below. Well, I think they're solid D's. I feel better about Corum than Benson because I've seen Benson play and look like shit. Corum, I barely seen play, but the like five snaps he played I'd feel good about. Yeah, it looked okay. I'd put them in the same tier. I'd put them in that D tier.

But I think they're a step below like Bucky and Tank and Tracy and those guys that have played and are going to play. All right. So just so I'm interpreting this the same way, you're telling me that right now you would be trading Tray Benson Plus for Tyrone Tracy. Yeah, absolutely. I offered that before this week. actually and was rejected in every Tray Benson share I tried to move for Tyrone Tracy. I'm, so I'm looking at this. Don't got a trade for me if you have them everywhere because you were early.

I mean, I have 24% Tyrone Tracy, but I tried to increase that to about 36 by offloading a lot of Benson's and I didn't get any nibbles on that. I might argue against Braylon Allen here. I would, so yeah, Alan's looked great. I was wrong on the Braylon Allen prospect of U.L. that's fine, I'll take that L. I don't, everybody else kind of in this tier has at least like a realistic path to projectable volume in the short term, right?

I don't think Alan has that. What is the story we're telling ourselves? And especially after last night, after we see Breece Hall go out and lead the league and snaps this past week, what is kind of the path to a, Braylon Allen scoring fantasy points. The path is a Briece Hall injury, and that's fine with me. To me, Braylon Allen is the Derek Henry of Blake Horam's, which is like, if, if like, Brie's Hall goes down, I am confident that Braylin Allen would project as a top five running

back for however long that happens. And I would rather have four games a year over the next three years of 18 points per game, than entire seasons of 10 points for game. What are you paying on top of quorum to get up to Braylin Allen? I'm not sure that it's anything of consequence for me. That's why I would just have him out of tier of quorum. It's hard to say that you pay something of consequence when to me everyone in the C tier is worth like a base two.

That's fair. So like how much of consequence am I paying on top of someone that I don't think is of consequence? But I don't know. out of third, which is to me, like, 40% of Lake Quorum's value already. So it seems of consequence to me. Yeah, I don't know. I just think that sounds to me like they should be in the same tier.

So Braylon Allen was somebody that before we watched what just happened would have been someone I'd highly put in here. But the snapshot kind of went back to what we thought it should have been. Yeah, put it on the goal line. That got called back by holding. but his snaps went considerably down, which is why I would more expect that to be the norm. New OC and all of a sudden we get a brand new running back rotation and Breece all looked significantly better last night than he had all year.

I think he's still just a priority handcuff at this point because he still has to deal with Breece for two to three years. So I don't know. It would be hard for me to put them there, especially with the lack of standalone value, just my opinion. I also think that we should get like the guy drafted behind the workforce running back

that actually goes and like signed somewhere else at the end of his rookie contract. Like there's so many other that like this can end up. It's more likely that this ends up in like a 70, 30 split or forever type of deal than it is for like Braylon Allen

goes and gets like standalone projectable volume somewhere else. I just don't care about a standalone volume on the Jets. Like if I'm investing in Braylin Allen I'm investing in, contingent value in the Jets and his second contract. That's why I also like that's why I also value guys.

Like I value guys like corn, like some of these guys like I don't really care. Are you trading Mixing for? I understand. I don't know. For Braylen? No, but I'm not arguing to be in a tier ahead of mixing. I'm arguing to be in a tier with mixing.

But that's like would you trade them one for one if they're in the same tier? Is what I'm asking. Well, no. But why would I, why would I have to trade? I mean, these are different asset types, right? put them in the same tier. Sure, I'm just, I'm just asking. Like, if I had mixed in, someone is going to ask that question.

And my team was rebuilt, like, right, but like, I'm not saying mixing is the lowest value in the tier. I think he's the best in the tier. So I wouldn't trade him straight up for anyone else in this. But I, if I had a rebuilding team that Mixin was weirdly on for some reason, like I was trying to tear my team down and I'd mix on it. I would trade him straight up for Braille now. I'd be fine with that. Okay. I want to talk about Tank Biggsby.

This dude fumbled and lost. all the snaps to Deerness Johnson when E. TN. Like, yeah, and he plays a left the game. Like I, yeah, I want Biggs B down. He, the hype was cool. He's like, he's an explosive player.

I think that's cool. He scored on some long runs, long reception. He, he got his opportunity and couldn't keep Deerunis off the field. I don't know. Like, I've been talking with Buck about this a lot. And I actually think ETN is kind of a buy right now because of that. but yeah yeah

8% of the show on the season yeah I agree I think Bigsby I mean he was like halaciously bad in the receiving game in his first year he was like

volume balls the other team I I think I'm I mostly agree with you there I think he's been great in terms of like he looked like the worst player in the NFL last year

he definitely has a role but I it was like if ETN goes down he's been kind of hurt he'll get more snaps and it just significantly wasn't

the case. His upside is pretty cap, right? Like, that's the thing. You feel like I, I, the, the Jaguars cared, Joanna. They really cared because Dearnis Johnson. Was it like 60%? Yeah, and it's because they were down, right? I care that they don't trust them at all in passive situation.

So it's like even if kind of what I was getting to, even if Travis Etienne disappeared from the earth today, which I know some people like to wish away Travis Etym, but that's not going to happen. Traversey Dien never comes back from this hamstring injury. Tank Bigsby is like Brian Robinson is basically where his ceiling is. Whereas like so, and I get that like that's not really how the dynasty markets work, but like I would almost rather have Blake Horm where like I know that I'm never starting him, but like I like the idea that if Kyron goes hurt, I am fucking pumped to put Blake Horm into my lineup.

Whereas like, you know, Traversey Dian is going to be out this week. And I'm, I'll put Tank Figs be into my lineups, but I'm not like doing a jig about it. Yeah, so people thought Ken Walker's upside was Katz until he started catching passes, except tanks, not Ken Walker, not the same prospect, wasn't the same player as a rookie,

wasn't drafted to be, doesn't, you know, doesn't have the draft, yeah, yeah, different comps there. I would also say for Tank and for ETN, I think you should ask, it's worth asking yourself the question, not so much like what is this coaching staff doing with them but also what would another coaching regime do with them that's true um and that's the i think i think yeah so i and that that is why i would would kind of begrudgingly

still have et n in in this tier like you guys have talked about and and yeah agree with these being down because because yeah i i think you could get a coaching staff that's like okay uh kind of in like the McVeigh School of Thought or whatever where it's like ETN can be on the field and kind of do everything above above a replacement level right well I just hope whereas Bigsby has like one skill that you're looking for our coaching staff to maximize and that like that's not going to happen with it with every with every coaching staff so I think he also he does and he's also like I'm just kind of sick and tired of like having to pretend that Travis E.TN is bad um he's just not he hasn't ever been bad.

Like, I get that he has not held up to the standard that he set for himself in his rookie year. He's still well over-expected in rush yards right now. He has the second highest forced-ness tackle rate among running backs over the last three years. That's in NFL next-gen stats. Like, it's just, he is a good running back. It's not a Rashad White situation. It's not like a dusty old seek situation.

He also, people don't realize he has. guaranteed $10.4 million next year. So a lot of the, oh, they'll just trade him. I don't think that they're going to be just trading him. I think he's going to be on the Jacksonville Jaguars next year. His contract is fully guaranteed on the fifth year option. So I agree with what a lot of you guys think.

I like what we see in out of tank, though. I do think hopefully. He looks fine. Never ever lets Deerunis Johnson puts the fucking field again. Can we please just be serious for one minute? And when this backfield is at full strength, just give Travis E.T. in the passing downs.

Give Tank Biggs be a decent chunk of the rushing downs. Enough with the Deerunis Johnson bullshit. I think that that will happen. I can't imagine that a new coaching staff is going to come in. We've got to find snaps for Deerunis Johnson. I don't know. Coaches are, especially new coaches. They're like weird about that veteran presence for the RB.

He's really going to help us steer the ship. They're weird like that. I don't know. I think he has potential to grow. like just like Corum and Benson but like yeah yeah need a little more need a little more

I would no Ray Davis truthers going to stay I put Ray Davis I put Ray Davis in with the quorum and Benson yeah agreed

and I think he's also that a big hurdle Warren and and and Spears my two guys that I like more than this but I would are we are we are we done sorry are we done with the C tier

Is that like everybody I think we're done with the C tier If you want to bring anyone else up We can we could have a conversation I mean I would still be looking to bring people down Out of the C tier but Okay who did you got Like we already had the conversation about Braylin Allen

Like that's the big one to me Oh if you agree with me yeah let's keep having that conversation Like I thought I was on a I'll I don't know if I am like currently like looking And like at least because like Blake Quorum Trey Benson Braylin Allen then all of those three kind of sit in a very similar area for me. And to the point out,

if there's like a tear break. That's not, that's not, that's not worthy of a tier that like, like, like, I guess that's just, that's just hard for me to get behind.

We're like, you have three running backs. Now, the one thing I'll, I'll give Benson that he has over the other guys, is that Benson is a very obvious pathway to being a starting running back for the Arizona Cardinals next year, while Braylon Allen and Blake Horn don't have that path on their team. so I'll give you that.

But like out of these three running backs, all kind of in the same scenario for this year, Benson has looked quite bad rushing, and they're playing like a creative player on third downs ahead of them. So they've signaled this staff that even if they do project Benson to be the starter next year, our base expectation to start will be he's a two-down only back with some other guy, maybe DiMarcato,

maybe someone else playing third downs. And he'll have to then earn that third-down role. Raylan has played already in past situations. So I think we should be far more bullish that if Breeze goes down, he would play all those snaps. And Coram has played like eight snaps total. So we don't really know how good he's lucked or whatever. I have a lot of conviction on him as a player.

So I'm optimistic that he would look good. And I'm optimistic he could play all three downs. And I think with the McVeigh deal, we can just kind of fill in some of the blanks that if he ever got an opportunity, he would play a ton of snaps because of how they rock and roll there. but I don't know. It matters to me that Braylen Allen just looked sick.

Like there's a floor there where he's almost in an ideal value position. Like this is why I love investing in Pollard a long time ago in like when the commute, he's in this kind of beautiful position right now where everyone accepts that he's great and he has no expectations to do anything because Breeze Hall's there. So like he whatever value he has right now, it's almost impossible for him to lose because the Braille and Allen that exists is just a theoretical Braylen Allen

that's going to blow your mind. And he almost can't do anything to lose that until he actually gets the shot. And as soon as Brie's Hall suffers an injury, if you want to sell then, he's going to go up in value. So it's like you kind of get this perfect world where like there's almost nothing

that can go wrong for him because he's just, he's the only player in fantasy right now that everyone agrees is this elite talent that never actually has to be. to show on the field that he's an elite talent. No, you just completely convince me, Jacob. You're 100% right about that.

Yeah. There is nothing that there's nothing that could happen on the field until that happens before a Braille and Allen cell window that could decrease his value. You're completely right. No one's going to change. I think we're throwing elite talent around a little too loosely. I don't know if he's an elite talent, but people think he is.

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, the elite challenging. I post on Twitter right now. Who's a better running back? Breece Hall or Braylon Allen. I bet you Braylon wins the poll. Like anytime you post anything. It'll be like 70, 30, but yeah, it'll be like.

Anytime I post anything about Brise on Twitter, it's like, Braille and better, it's like 86 comments. And like, I don't think he's better than Brie's Hall. But I do think he's really good. He's really impressed me. But like, it's just in this window where it's like, I don't know, you just, start you start to get this way with running backs where like especially backup running backs where once the market decides how talented he is and then and then he's in this spot where it's like oh he plays 15 snaps a game so he's at the lowest injury risk of any running back because he

doesn't play very often it's hard to get hurt if you don't play um you know he never has to actually go and have 15 carries for 30 yards and everyone calling him a bust because it'll never have 15 carries so he just gets to like walk on pixie dust for eternity um and the fun thing of a break It's like most of these backup running backs that people fall in love with are like the Tony Pollard, Tai J.Ley Spears, Jalen Warren types, which are always going to be divisive in the fantasy industry where you have people who appreciate that kind of back and you have people that don't. But Braylin has somehow united everybody because he's the big bruising backup running back. So like the people who like stand for the nauseous and the Ziegs, they love Braylin Allen

because they think Brie's Hall is soft and Braylin is thick and runs hard. and the people who are like I goggle over the efficiency metrics and fall in love for backups. They love Braille and because of that stuff. So he brings every world. He's going to bring peace to the Middle East. Oh, man.

You know what? If I see a career arc for him, like for a path, it's Michael Turner, right? He's the backup for the chargers for a long period of time. Also, the poll is posted. You can go and vote. Oh, I just did the exact.

same thing for my account. Did you just do that from? Okay, well, Ryan's going to get more. We're on the same way by now. That's funny. That's hilarious. Yeah, he is something that I could see taking like the Michael Turner route, right?

Big body back ended up getting a nut spot because his efficiency was so good, looked so good with the chargers, checks all the boxes, et cetera. Yeah, I think his price is, I think his price will go down a little bit, but I think he does belong in there. I think I'll put him in there for sure.

They're being C. Yeah, they're being C. Yeah, they're being C. So you're going to lose that one. You didn't like him, Mr. Devy guy. You didn't like him beforehand, Mr. Devy. And I don't like how much of that. 40 pound running back who doesn't break tackles. But he is breaking tackles. Now he does. In a super small size. I don't know. Yeah, but like, what else are you going to get excited about?

I mean, I care more about the small running back in the big sample size in college, to be honest. And I, like, you can pull my Braylen Allen receipts. I have a lot of embarrassing

Brail and Allen receipts. I thought he sucked. You could pull his Tank Bigsby receipts if you wanted to. Yeah. I mean, well, it depends on what receipts

because Tank Bigsby I've just been wrong on all the time. Like I love him as a crossback and then he stopped. And then I was like, oh, I guess he sucked and now he's great. So I just wanted to make the joke

because he weren't here the other day. He's like the, Tank Bigsby is like my anti-D Andre Swift. We're like, Andre Swift, it's like I've like, I've like nailed at each step of his career where like I've been on multiple

different sides of Swift, but I've usually like charted out his career accurately at each point. Tank Bigsby, it could not be the more opposite. I was like, what a great prospect. Oh, he's the worst running back ever.

Now he's great. Whatever I say about Tank Biggsby, hard fade me. Okay. So people, my Twitter followers are really mad that I posted this poll. I think they think I'm suggesting something that I'm not

That's hilarious So I'm gonna I'm gonna have to clarify my position After this is done probably But I'm not you're not letting your Twitter crowd With pitch forks rule your Rule your world will you It's it's 81% Breece Hall by the way 81% only like we'll update we'll update

You guys have more rational followers than I do Good for you only a handful of votes Well your your cultists do have like a weird I don't think it's the masses I have

you have it's the cultus yeah I agree Bha Bha said Brelin Allen is what people

wanted A.J. Dillon to be why Hackett was giving him snaps early on could be J.

Dillon was a former player who was very protected by the veil of ignorance until he had to play

and that what really heard A.J. Dillan was he had to play. Yeah. Agreed.

Josh Mosas, I'm excited with the young, the big young guy. I mean, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah, it's okay to be excited. And look at the tier he's in. He's not like in an expensive tier or whatever. He does look at the bottom tier. He did.

Look, I'll be the first one to tell you when we were watching Braylon Allen, right, as we were going through a rookie process. I said he runs as soft as baby shit. Like his, his, like he, like Lucas said, like he didn't break tackles for a big guy.

He didn't look like he got better as he played through college. Didn't know how to use a size. first game immediately tweeted like this isn't the same brailyn allen i watched at the you at the w so it's like um clearly something clicked for him and that's good it just clicked for him at 20 and not 23 you know what i mean like there's a chance to establish some there but i will say he is he is kind of capped there um henry and barclay the best two rbs and tier one uh no not in dynasty uh sadly well we got okay yeah let's go with uh let's go with uh let's go with E here. What do we want for the E here?

Are we adding anyone else to D tier? Like is this where? Well, T. Spears isn't on the list, but I'm maintaining he should be part of D tier. Okay. Fair enough. All Spheres is kind of get hurt in every evening. Like he's looked fine. I've thought, no, I'm agreeing with you, Jacob.

I would, like, I would have been there with Spiers before the season. All he's done is kind of get hurt in every game. He's looked fine to me on the field. Should we, should we at least entertain Jalen right? One game where he really got to play was 86 yards against a tough New England defense with Tyler Huntley at quarterback got the opportunity played what kind of did exactly what we hoped he would

maybe like I'm okay putting him in the E tier but like I just didn't even I just kind of forgot about him but I agree he should go he should go in this tier uh the other name that I'll propose and maybe no one will agree Nick Chubb yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's running back of our generation. Oh, well. I mean, Derek Henry's going to, Derek Henry's going to beg to differ, maybe. No, I think Dick Schaubb is better than Derek.

Are you telling me, are you trying to say without saying that he's the best peer runner in the NFL? Like, everyone on Twitter does every single the time he plays. He is the best peer runner in the NFL. Also, I just want to point out that someone's called Derek Henry slow, and that's not true as he ran, like, 0.1 second slower than the men that set the record for the 40 time

Xavier worthy this year, so he's not slow. Here's the thing with Chubb and this would be my case for putting him in here. Again, I'd have more tiers like I would have him a tear below Connor, but I'd have him a tear to some of these guys. It's just that if you look at the two, within a month from now, Nick,

there's like, there's a decent possibility that within a month from now, Nick Chubb is going to be worth like nothing. Yeah. But he also is like literally one game away from just like being up there next Henry and Camara, right? Like, if he just comes out in the first month and it's like, oh, medical miracles happen,

like Nick Chubb just had 21 carries for 168 yards and two touchdowns, like, like once people see it, they're going to be like, oh, Nick Chubb's back and then he's going to be up there with the other elite running backs. And like, I don't think that's particularly likely. But I feel like you can kind of buy right now at wagering if that's like a 20 to 30% outcome. So that's why I still put him down in that bottom tier. There's a lot of spite potential to his value right now.

I agree. I agree. I've been buying all of the season. 10% outcome at us, but so maybe. Well, the team sucks. So,

yeah. I think, I think you're right, though. He has the opportunity to move up to here, but he also has an opportunity to fall off this list. Totally. Oh.

Yeah. Yeah. I do, I think they're going to try. I will say that. Like, if it works out, probably for a few weeks,

so they don't have a choice. Yeah, Josh says, Chub is great, but maybe cooked. Spencer says, I don't think Chubb has that in his range of outcomes with the Brown's

team and his lack of past catching Yeah, I mean, Nick Chapp was Garbage Brown teams with no past game usage his entire career. I don't know about that. Please talk me to the powerhouse teams that Nick Chopp has been a part of with all the oral past game usage. Like, that's the least of his worries. He was built for this.

Is Rashar White just completely like not being considered? Jacob, could we talk about your tweet? Because I thought it was like one of the greatest tweets I've ever seen how it's like not a coincidence that Rashad White is out and they rush for 250 yards. Oh, so enjoyable. That was an instant bookmark and embed in like every article for me this week. It's just awesome to see. This is the first time that the Buccaneers have valued running the football with their actions in four years. And it was awesome to see them play running backs

who try to run the ball. I think he's out of there for me. He's about to be in a potential a three-way committee gone. Rashad White is going to have a long career in this league, legitimately an excellent third-down running back. And he's going to be a third-down running back in this league for a long time. And I'm going to draft them on a shit ton of fucking basketball teams because he will be out there on third downs. And then he'll be Zach Sharbonnet, right?

Like it's like, oh, he's playing third and longs. Can I interest you? And then, oh, the starter went down for three weeks. Like, oh, great, Rashad Weiss they scored 18 points for game for three weeks. And then never be heard from him. Yeah. Like he's going to be the next generation Samajé P. Ryan.

Can I interest you in the newest Deerunis Johnson? Like, this is, this is just what his role is going to be. Yeah. Yeah. I think he's in this mix. I don't know why he's not on this screen,

but he should be in this mix. And, uh, look, he will rub God. Kumani Vidal. Yeah. I'm willing to put,

I'm willing to put him in the E tier. I'd like him to see him for one more week. Yeah. Chris Thompson, Naim Hines, yeah, yeah, except those guys actually had juice. That's one thing Rashad White does hilariously lack. Let's put Sean Tucker. Let's put Sean Tucker in the E tier. Wait, what?

Are you guys taking the Sean Tucker thing seriously? I just got, I just watch. I watch this man get traded for a second yesterday. Wow. Yeah, he belongs there. Well, let's see. It was an insane one week. Hashtag, please.

It was an insane. I will say, though, him wearing number 44 adds negative drip. Like he earns negative value for wearing number 44. Who wears 34 on the box? Because that was his whole bit. I think it's a DB. I think there's a DB that might wear number 34.

But 44 is probably the most atrocious running. 44 is reserved for fullbacks and long snappers. Seeing it on, I would rather watch Ray Ray McLeod where number 34 wide receiver or a punter wear 33, then watch Sean Tucker out there wearing number 44. Get this man a running back number, please. The first player that comes to my mind when I think 44 other than Reggie Jackson,

but in a football context, is Vante Leach. And that's not really the vibe I want my... Michael, stop, baby. Running back giving me. Michael Stapte Leach. Yeah, I would actually argue Javante into the D tier. Yeah, I would put him in the D tier as well. And Jude brought up a name who's somehow not on our screen.

I would put Jordan Mason I would put Jordan Mason in seats here personally Agreed He's not on the screen but he belongs We'll mark him down as honorable We have discussed well over 45 running backs tonight I think that's enough

Wasn't perfect on making sure all of them Got a head shot I apologize The guys that are off this list Belong off this list The Zach Moss The Zeke Elliott The Gus Edwards They're gone

See you later Sean wants to ask what Audrake Estime. Is Estime even on, I would put him in E. I think, look, any of the young backs to me like that are like iffy belong in E? Because if we're doing any man on the 53 type methodology, they all belong in there, honestly. I think someone like an Estime or a Marathon Lloyd that is a rookie, those are those are guys that deserve to be like one tier ahead of like the straight veteran

backup of like Antonio Gibson or Alexander Madison or whatever like there's some level of unknown enchantment so I just I just want to point out Mars on Lloyd on this podcast it's been said it's been said like a couple of times yeah I'd put Lloyd in the E there we go there's like there's been like a couple of times

it's been like yeah Echler is dust no thanks maybe the E tier but I use dust to me yeah Manuel Wilson another another good one I just want to point out that PFF have been referenced quite a bit I can't tell you

I can tell you that I've not looked at PFF once in two years So the PFF grade of Sean Tucker is like It provides incredibly little information Right All it is describing is that the player

Who had 160 yards and two touchdowns And his one game of play this season played well in that game Which would have been ascertainable From the fact that he had 160 yards And two touchdowns So it's sort of of one of those things it's like did Sean Tucker play good is a question that's already answered

by my t-shirt that says did Sean Tucker play good? Situation. Yeah, Charbonnet. All these guys, we've kind of gotten down the rabbit hole of guys that Lucas didn't put on the sheet. But Charbonnet, all these guys that go in the E tier of the kind of, if you're a backup that I'm 100% sure when the starter goes out, I just start you. Not E, I guess.

In production, then I'm, then I'm in like Charbonnet algae. I put, I put Charbonnet in D. though I put him in D I think he's a high value backup I don't think he's an E when he played he played well when he played he was in he was what an RB1 when he played so it's like yeah he could maybe be it I think he's a little bit better than that but yeah he says Vidal should be in the C tier I want to see it

I want to see it I gotta see it a little bit CTR all a stand alone value what about the Cowboys RB one RICO Dowdell yeah we don't have everyone we didn't want to do 50 running backs today it's already two hours and 23 minutes. We stopped at 36 wide receivers. I was using that as the guide. Yeah, that should have been the guide.

But just here's the thing, Lucas. What you don't understand is that our listeners are devouted lunatics degenerates that want us to talk about RB 65 and determine what separates him from running back 73. Yes. And we love them all for that. As we go into the next day here in Eastern time zone, we are talking about and debating with gusto, whether or not it's going to be Tyrone Tracy Jr. season, which is more relevant.

It is. It always was. I know in the same tier as him. We didn't talk about Devin Singletary either, but he's kind of in that D tier for me as a player that's going to be around. Look, basically if they're like Devin Singletary-esque, they're in the D tier. Yeah. If they're young with Upside for the most. Yeah, D tier.

Not enough. Enough running back to disgust on this program. Toronto Dave said that's a multi-day podcast. It really is. In the chat at this point. Time for the Tyler Goodson conversation. We'll start asking, we'll start ranking about Arby's on the practice.

Did anyone watch the Colts Titans game? I mean, there was way better games to watch. No. Anyone happen to watch any part of that? Trey Sermon. Enough. The worst. He's so bad.

He's running with a what on his back? I stole this from Davis Natick, but it's, Trey Sermon runs with a piano on his back. That's, this is great. You guys are phenomenal. We've had a great show. Unbelievable how slow this guy is.

I was losing my mind. Like, Tyler Goodson is a bad running back. He is blind. He only knows how to run straight directly at defenders. But like, I'll take it, man. Anything else. I can't watch Sermon any longer. I love Spencer just says.

Spencer just says it's fun to just keep naming guys. This is that turning into that thing where it's like, dude just sit around naming random wide receivers. I'm not even going to do player picks. We know what the player picks are because it's two and a half hours. Say them. Okay. I'll say the rap.

Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Tank Biggsby, Jalen, Waddle, David, and Joku. People don't need to hear your shitty player picks. I'm beating you by 130 points. In your mind, because mine are always good. I mean, why are we supposed to say that? Yeah.

We don't have anything we can say. You should pick that. Jesus Christ. All right, let's. Hey, Ryan's doing good. He's in second place. He's only 119 points behind me. I hate this so much.

Be right back. All right. Let's end this thing. It's a marathon. Final thoughts. Let's get out of here. Jacob's winning hilariously in player picks. That's all you need to know.

Yeah, I think you guys should learn to play. Lucas, didn't you build the war model? This is literally supposed to be up your alley. What are you doing? Like, get your shit together, man. You know, and, like, where? See, that's the thing. I don't do anything forward looking until Wednesdays.

So when you're asking me to pick players on a Tuesday night, that is the absolute worst time you possibly could ask me to. Unless I do early research, in which case I land off. on freaking Will Levis and DeAndre Hopkins and Calvin Ridley. So, would you ask me on Friday? By the way, I've been in cast a DFS lineup with Calvin Ridley in it this week. I did the exact same thing. And I was sick, oh, proud of myself.

Yeah. There's no, there's no worse feeling than playing the spy by starting a wide receiver against your own favorite team, who sucks? And then, like, being like, why did I do this to myself? I could have been enjoying Calvin Ridley having eight targets for zero catches but instead I'm pained by this because I played this fucking guy

at a hundred dollar lineup and with every and it's like AJ Brown is just dragging Calvin Ridley on his back to the mid-catch line all day yeah we had a similar experience this weekend that sounds like Jacob

yes hold on a second folks why did I just see something pop up on my timeline. I can't confirm it. Has DeAndreveff been arrested for murder at last? No, no. It was something about Christian Kirk

and the chiefs, but I can't confirm it. So we'll leave. I'm just figured, what a great way to extend this podcast, five hours, then to have a breaking trade that Christian Kirk has become a Kansas City chief. I'm not seeing anything outside of a lot of people

that would be a good idea. Yeah, that's what I mean. I saw, I saw one account that's like that looked semi official mention it but yeah everyone's just wanting it in the dream role just let me keep Travis Kelsey in that role please let's not take that away from me I got it one

yeah can makers to the Vikings is fine to me I my power cut out before I could talk about Aaron Jones it wasn't meant to be but his hamstrings are cooked cooked it's fine that backfield's a mess yeah that's gonna do it that's a program final thoughts before we get out of here anyone anyone have anything to add from this two and a half hour long program. Next week is going to be half an hour because we're doing tight ends.

How about that? Half an hour. That's how we're going to make up the difference. Yeah, the only thing I can say is make sure you're checking out the brand new prize picks pick finder only on fantasy points. And everybody loved the sheet that I was managing. The website is way cooler, even better. So make sure you are joining that and subscribing and getting in the Discord where

we talk about even more. So that is my entire weekend. Yeah, the Discord goes absolutely insane. Sean Jefferson's the tight end tiers would be tough. The tight end tiers are going to take five minutes. I think he's means the S tier. That's very easy. That's very easy.

His name is Brock Bowers. That's the easiest. We're on tier three. Yeah. Done over. Yeah, guys. And then cheers next week. It'll be a half hour podcast.

Yeah, we got a, we got a, I don't know, reshift the, I don't know, we got to reshift stuff. These shows are getting longer and longer. And I know it's like kind of the meme, but like, my God, man, this is crazy. But we love all you guys for real. We're not doing, no, we're not doing it now. I'm getting up in four hours. I am, no, I'm done. Lucas is cutting the show off.

Look, I just again. under strike if we do tight end tears. You know what? I can survive for a little while on that. Do you guys, do you guys want to know? A silent game. How you can, he says for the people. We got Joe Schmo, love the podcast.

We appreciate you. Sean Deer says, for the people. Well, look, we do this for the people. What you guys can do for us is go to the Dynasty Points own feed. We love that you download the podcast on the fancy points. Now feed. It helps us out.

way more. If you just look up Dynasty Points on your apps and listen to the Dynasty Points feed, that link will be in this podcast as soon as that gets uploaded tomorrow morning. We're going to put it back in this description. We're going to post it all over social media. You guys continue to be the driving force to making this show the most listened to show on this network for all of Fantasy Points every single week, except for the IDP guys. And look, we're coming for that title, IDP guys. I don't know how. how you guys work the magic that you do, but you're all degenerate sickos

that play that format, but we're coming for the title, we're coming for the championship, we will be the number one downloaded podcast permanently, but for the year-round pods, yeah, and it's because of you guys. So let's just keep that going.

Let's keep growing. We do it for you guys. We have a lot more fun dynasty stuff coming your way. Articles, Herms just released his new one. Theo Greminger is doing work for us all the time. Dynasty all the way up. I'm tired. Again, very sorry for the power cutting out.

Time for player picks, by the way. Hey, well, then we'll be doing player picks and the outro. So why don't you shut the fuck up and let me outro? Now we have time for five for five. Special Billy's stat corner. No, we're getting out of here. Clear eyes, full hearts can't lose. In your best days, always spent tilting.

Good night, everybody. It's over.